FabSwingers.com forum: (referendum) seen it all

By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

some up his or her high court judge

has just shown us all , that no matter

what, we have no democracy no rights

By over ruling our wishs, most likely.

one of the perverts that let lord tanner.

Or the BBC that doesnt want the british

normal worker to have any rights.

And we go to war to export democracy all

i say is god help us, why dont they all

go to the Eu and fuck off.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

This is not news, it was stated before the referendum that under UK law an act of parliament needs an act of parliament to overturn it.

So as MPs took us in, they now need to take us out. The referendum should force their vote to 49% remain and 51% leave same as the public voted.

It's daft to appeal, just vote correctly and it's done. May be a rubber stamp option of little consequence but it is our UK sovereign law and MPs should obey it.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Actually, what happened was, that we got democracy.

You see, in democracy, we vote for people to make decisions for us. Because we mostly can't be trusted to do our research before we make big decisions - as a nation.

So the court have said 'Yes, those people who you all chose to elect? They *do* have a say in what happens.'

Because that's democracy.

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By *rKinkedKuntMan
over a year ago

Sheffield

That's not what has happened at all, have you just read that on the sun website?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

(Also, I was planning to fuck off to the EU when I'd finished my education. BUT NOW I CAN'T BECAUSE SOME PEOPLE VOTED TO TAKE AWAY MY RIGHT TO DO THAT.)

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"This is not news, it was stated before the referendum that under UK law an act of parliament needs an act of parliament to overturn it.

So as MPs took us in, they now need to take us out. The referendum should force their vote to 49% remain and 51% leave same as the public voted.

It's daft to appeal, just vote correctly and it's done. May be a rubber stamp option of little consequence but it is our UK sovereign law and MPs should obey it."

agreed. A referendum is just advisory. There is nothing legal to compel Brexit. Although any government not listening to the will of the people after holding one is committing political suicide.

An act of Parliament needs Parliament to overturn it.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Thanks OP for that excellent demonstration of why elected representation is so important

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By *ouple in LancashireCouple
over a year ago

in Lancashire

"Actually, what happened was, that we got democracy.

You see, in democracy, we vote for people to make decisions for us. Because we mostly can't be trusted to do our research before we make big decisions - as a nation.

So the court have said 'Yes, those people who you all chose to elect? They *do* have a say in what happens.'

Because that's democracy."

this..

irony of all ironies that some of those who were most vocal in the democracy being returned to give us back sovereignty now don't want those people who we have elected to act within the law of the land..

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"(Also, I was planning to fuck off to the EU when I'd finished my education. BUT NOW I CAN'T BECAUSE SOME PEOPLE VOTED TO TAKE AWAY MY RIGHT TO DO THAT.)"

crap

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Thanks OP for that excellent demonstration of why elected representation is so important

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"(Also, I was planning to fuck off to the EU when I'd finished my education. BUT NOW I CAN'T BECAUSE SOME PEOPLE VOTED TO TAKE AWAY MY RIGHT TO DO THAT.)"

Why can't you? I believe the Council of Europe stated that the EU member states would not revoke free movement of people from UK citizens (subjects?). They would merely stop the entitlement to benefits, which is you intend to fuck off after your education, I presume to work, shouldn't bother you?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"(Also, I was planning to fuck off to the EU when I'd finished my education. BUT NOW I CAN'T BECAUSE SOME PEOPLE VOTED TO TAKE AWAY MY RIGHT TO DO THAT.)

I had not seen that. All of the information I had seen, would be that after the UK exits Europe we would not be able to go to live and work in the EU without the usual paperwork.

However, without benefits I wouldn't be able to afford to do that. Healthcare provision, for example, is something that I would not be willing to go without. And being a freelancer (or possibly being an academic if I get a job) means that I will most likely not have £200+ a month sitting around to spend on healthcare.

I love the UK. But I consider myself European.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Good God.....the politics forum nutjobs have been let out of their cage.

Somebody bolt the stable door!!

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"(Also, I was planning to fuck off to the EU when I'd finished my education. BUT NOW I CAN'T BECAUSE SOME PEOPLE VOTED TO TAKE AWAY MY RIGHT TO DO THAT.)

I had not seen that. All of the information I had seen, would be that after the UK exits Europe we would not be able to go to live and work in the EU without the usual paperwork.

I love the UK. But I consider myself European."

I think you would live and work as any other non-EU migrant then? Requiring a visa etc. Not too sure on the details, I just recall Frau Merkel and (I think) Juncker stating this in the days following the referendum. I am guessing though that this would require ratification from all EU member states? Those pesky Walloons in Belgium might nix it?!

Ideally, you'd get a post or commission with healthcare as part of the package? It is a minefield at the moment, especially for young people who do see themselves as part of the wider European construct. Good luck in your studies.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Let's face it people voted leave because they think it'll end immigration.

Any economist will tell you borders and immigration control are bad for the economy.

Who will pick the fruit and veg for 50p a day?

We no longer pay the fees for student nurses - where will our nurses come from? We aren't training them, we need foreign nurses because we no longer pay to train our own!!

Think of all the stunning Eastern European women trafficked into the UK and enslaved in the sex industry. Where will your cheap hookers operating in grim terraced houses in northern slum towns come from?

Ok the last one is my attempt at dark satire, but, basically borders are bad for business. A divided Europe is a lot more dangerous place. We should be going on wholeheartedly basically running it with the Germans, but small minded island mentality has always held us back, and undermined the EU as a whole.

The economy relies on immigration it's really that simple, so in or put, they'll still be coming. But rather than skilled labour from Eastern Europe, who will do your building renovations and pick fruit for pence an hour, the cheap labour will come from elsewhere. Cutting nose off to spite face.

And OP you really think rich Tory donors, or labour ones for that matter, give a flying fuck about the working man? Funny enough, they do over in Europe. Just a thought...

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

some up his or her high court judge

has just shown us all , that no matter

what, we have no democracy no rights

By over ruling our wishs, most likely.

one of the perverts that let lord tanner.

Or the BBC that doesnt want the british

normal worker to have any rights.

And we go to war to export democracy all

i say is god help us, why dont they all

go to the Eu and fuck off."

And we do have democracy, hence parliament, as opposed to mob rule, which is your precious referendum. Mob rule is never good for the most vulnerable in society

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

And hate to bang on but workers rights?

Workers in most EU countries have a lot more rights. France, Germany, Netherlands, Spain, Portugal, Italy... strong unions and way more rights than those the worker enjoys in the UK.

What the UK government want is less regulation so employers can screw the workers.

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By *iamondjoeMan
over a year ago

Glastonbury

Blah blah blah, yackety-shmackety, blah blah blah

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By *iamondjoeMan
over a year ago

Glastonbury

"Thanks OP for that excellent demonstration of why elected representation is so important

LOL

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Thanks OP for that excellent demonstration of why elected representation is so important

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

some up his or her high court judge

has just shown us all , that no matter

what, we have no democracy no rights

By over ruling our wishs, most likely.

one of the perverts that let lord tanner.

Or the BBC that doesnt want the british

normal worker to have any rights.

And we go to war to export democracy all

i say is god help us, why dont they all

go to the Eu and fuck off."

Have you read the ruling? Did you understand it? (That's a rhetorical question, by the way, you obviously didn't)

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Let's face it people voted leave because they think it'll end immigration.

Any economist will tell you borders and immigration control are bad for the economy.

Who will pick the fruit and veg for 50p a day?

We no longer pay the fees for student nurses - where will our nurses come from? We aren't training them, we need foreign nurses because we no longer pay to train our own!!

And OP you really think rich Tory donors, or labour ones for that matter, give a flying fuck about the working man? Funny enough, they do over in Europe. Just a thought..."

I actually agree with almost everything you say, I disagree however that (all) people who voted to leave did so solely due to the immigration issue.

Sadly, a vast majority of the working poor have been let down by countless governments and I believe many voted in an attempt to show their discontent. Yes, some of this may have been discontent at immigration and the effect this (seemingly?) has on them. Or, as I contend, many voted to show their dissatisfaction with the way they have been overlooked and ignored, for generations.

The worrying thing is, one of the only parties that seemed to speak up for this section of society, was UKIP. Yes, their policies are anti-immigration, but (locally at least, and I live in the Labour heartland of the South Wales valleys) the UKIP team were the only party canvassing door to door, promising the earth. Hence, at least locally, they were the only party that connected with 'the people'.

I hate the thought that seems quite popular since the referendum, that every voter that opted out is in someway xenophobic or racist. I don't think that is the case at all.

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By *ouple in LancashireCouple
over a year ago

in Lancashire

"Let's face it people voted leave because they think it'll end immigration.

Any economist will tell you borders and immigration control are bad for the economy.

Who will pick the fruit and veg for 50p a day?

We no longer pay the fees for student nurses - where will our nurses come from? We aren't training them, we need foreign nurses because we no longer pay to train our own!!

And OP you really think rich Tory donors, or labour ones for that matter, give a flying fuck about the working man? Funny enough, they do over in Europe. Just a thought...

I actually agree with almost everything you say, I disagree however that (all) people who voted to leave did so solely due to the immigration issue.

I hate the thought that seems quite popular since the referendum, that every voter that opted out is in someway xenophobic or racist. I don't think that is the case at all.

agree..

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By *iss_tressWoman
over a year ago

London

"Thanks OP for that excellent demonstration of why elected representation is so important

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Wrong place

Politics section for this

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"(Also, I was planning to fuck off to the EU when I'd finished my education. BUT NOW I CAN'T BECAUSE SOME PEOPLE VOTED TO TAKE AWAY MY RIGHT TO DO THAT.)"

Good luck...hopefully you'll still get that chance

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Thanks OP for that excellent demonstration of why elected representation is so important

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

This is a perfect example of why referendums shouldn't happen. They insinuate to the average voter that we live in a republic when we actually live in a democracy. The UK is a parlimentary democracy and the court made a ruling consistent with that reality. I could recommend a few books and articles on the difference between the two, if you'd like, OP?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

50 p an hour? Always found this immigration argument an odd one. Sensible western economies like Australia and Canada except the immigrants they need and who will benefit their economy.All immigration isn't good. Also before the the great influx of 2004 did we have hotels closing through lack of staff or fruit and veg rotting in fields. We didn't- all these jobs were still getting done.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

This is your decision. The Government will implement what you decide. The bill was voted through 6-1...parliament did have it say.

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By *sprey6Man
over a year ago

Here!

"(Also, I was planning to fuck off to the EU when I'd finished my education. BUT NOW I CAN'T BECAUSE SOME PEOPLE VOTED TO TAKE AWAY MY RIGHT TO DO THAT.)"

That's democracy

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By *erbyDalesCplCouple
over a year ago

Derbyshire

some up his or her high court judge

has just shown us all , that no matter

what, we have no democracy no rights

By over ruling our wishs, most likely.

one of the perverts that let lord tanner.

Or the BBC that doesnt want the british

normal worker to have any rights.

And we go to war to export democracy all

i say is god help us, why dont they all

go to the Eu and fuck off."

{sniggers}

(sorry

)

But I did always say that, in the absence of a 2nd referendum to confirm Brexit once all the details had been ironed out, the timings meant that the next general election will be used as one instead.

Whilst I didn't vote for it, I'm happy for Brexit to go ahead so long as all proper procedures are complied with.

Voting for a pig in a poke was never going to be satisfactory.

Mr ddc

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By *0tt0nSu3Woman
over a year ago

London

some up his or her high court judge

has just shown us all , that no matter

what, we have no democracy no rights

By over ruling our wishs, most likely.

one of the perverts that let lord tanner.

Or the BBC that doesnt want the british

normal worker to have any rights.

And we go to war to export democracy all

i say is god help us, why dont they all

go to the Eu and fuck off.

{sniggers}

(sorry

)

But I did always say that, in the absence of a 2nd referendum to confirm Brexit once all the details had been ironed out, the timings meant that the next general election will be used as one instead.

Whilst I didn't vote for it, I'm happy for Brexit to go ahead so long as all proper procedures are complied with.

Voting for a pig in a poke was never going to be satisfactory.

Mr ddc"

I agree with everything said (bar the tittering)

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By *erbyDalesCplCouple
over a year ago

Derbyshire

some up his or her high court judge

has just shown us all , that no matter

what, we have no democracy no rights

By over ruling our wishs, most likely.

one of the perverts that let lord tanner.

Or the BBC that doesnt want the british

normal worker to have any rights.

And we go to war to export democracy all

i say is god help us, why dont they all

go to the Eu and fuck off.

{sniggers}

(sorry

)

But I did always say that, in the absence of a 2nd referendum to confirm Brexit once all the details had been ironed out, the timings meant that the next general election will be used as one instead.

Whilst I didn't vote for it, I'm happy for Brexit to go ahead so long as all proper procedures are complied with.

Voting for a pig in a poke was never going to be satisfactory.

Mr ddc

I agree with everything said (bar the tittering) "

If you want the tittering to turn into a

, how about this quote:

"If the decision is upheld in the Supreme Court, it is unclear whether the Government will take it to the European Court of Justice"

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By *0tt0nSu3Woman
over a year ago

London

some up his or her high court judge

has just shown us all , that no matter

what, we have no democracy no rights

By over ruling our wishs, most likely.

one of the perverts that let lord tanner.

Or the BBC that doesnt want the british

normal worker to have any rights.

And we go to war to export democracy all

i say is god help us, why dont they all

go to the Eu and fuck off.

{sniggers}

(sorry

)

But I did always say that, in the absence of a 2nd referendum to confirm Brexit once all the details had been ironed out, the timings meant that the next general election will be used as one instead.

Whilst I didn't vote for it, I'm happy for Brexit to go ahead so long as all proper procedures are complied with.

Voting for a pig in a poke was never going to be satisfactory.

Mr ddc

I agree with everything said (bar the tittering)

If you want the tittering to turn into a

, how about this quote:

"If the decision is upheld in the Supreme Court, it is unclear whether the Government will take it to the European Court of Justice"

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"This is a perfect example of why referendums shouldn't happen. They insinuate to the average voter that we live in a republic when we actually live in a democracy. The UK is a parlimentary democracy and the court made a ruling consistent with that reality. I could recommend a few books and articles on the difference between the two, if you'd like, OP?"

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

So we have a democracy , we vote , and the result is challenged . This is the beginning of a possible end to democracy as we know it .

We already have the Scottish MPs voting against everything we wish to implement , and now this .

Farcical , and it makes me wonder why bother with voting in the first place .

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"(Also, I was planning to fuck off to the EU when I'd finished my education. BUT NOW I CAN'T BECAUSE SOME PEOPLE VOTED TO TAKE AWAY MY RIGHT TO DO THAT.)

That's democracy

Yes, but the people who voted 'leave' seem to keep telling us to go... except they can't have it both ways.

So if we leave the EU, they're all trapped in here with those of us who now want to leave the UK. And that's going to be hell for them...

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"So we have a democracy , we vote , and the result is challenged . This is the beginning of a possible end to democracy as we know it .

We already have the Scottish MPs voting against everything we wish to implement , and now this .

Farcical , and it makes me wonder why bother with voting in the first place ."

You don't understand democracy.

As someone else said, these kind of referendums are more akin to a republic - which we do not live in.

We have a parliamentary democracy where we vote for people who know more than ourselves to make decisions on our behalf. Which is exactly what the court just ruled in favour of...

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"So we have a democracy , we vote , and the result is challenged . This is the beginning of a possible end to democracy as we know it .

We already have the Scottish MPs voting against everything we wish to implement , and now this .

Farcical , and it makes me wonder why bother with voting in the first place ."

What's the problem with parliamentary sovereignty being upheld? I thought decisions being foist upon Britain by unelected officials was the reason people voted for brexit? (I've been reliably informed it definitely wasn't racism or ignorance). It's entirely appropriate that in a democracy, Parliament is the body which decides to trigger article 50, after appropriate scrutiny. Nothing undemocratic about any of this.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Illusion of democracy more so.

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By *0tt0nSu3Woman
over a year ago

London

"Wrong place

Politics section for this

Oooohhh... I dunno, mate.

I'm beginning to think that the politics board should be renamed as 'nookie for the nine carat nutters.'

Enter those boards at your own peril. I could expand but I just. Can't. Be. Bothered.

It's vicious out there.

Or on the plus side, you could use it as a filter...

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I thought decisions being foist upon Britain by unelected officials was the reason people voted for brexit? (I've been reliably informed it definitely wasn't racism or ignorance)."

YAS!

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

May should call an election and anniliate the opposition. This isn't sitting well with people in my work place. Even those who didn't vote or voted to stay. They had their vote on the bill which said they would implement our decision. They obviously plan yo drag it out of tie her hands. Take it the people once more..via a GE.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"So we have a democracy , we vote , and the result is challenged . This is the beginning of a possible end to democracy as we know it .

We already have the Scottish MPs voting against everything we wish to implement , and now this .

Farcical , and it makes me wonder why bother with voting in the first place .

So if the parliamentary democracy decides not to trigger article 50 , that's democracy ?

How so ?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"So we have a democracy , we vote , and the result is challenged . This is the beginning of a possible end to democracy as we know it .

We already have the Scottish MPs voting against everything we wish to implement , and now this .

Farcical , and it makes me wonder why bother with voting in the first place .

You don't understand democracy.

As someone else said, these kind of referendums are more akin to a republic - which we do not live in.

We have a parliamentary democracy where we vote for people who know more than ourselves to make decisions on our behalf. Which is exactly what the court just ruled in favour of..."

Well if we , the electorate , vote to leave , then surely the current government should trigger article 50 .

It's just a stalling point .

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"So we have a democracy , we vote , and the result is challenged . This is the beginning of a possible end to democracy as we know it .

We already have the Scottish MPs voting against everything we wish to implement , and now this .

Farcical , and it makes me wonder why bother with voting in the first place .

So if the parliamentary democracy decides not to trigger article 50 , that's democracy ?

How so ?

Who says they're going to decide not to trigger it? I'd expect them to vote to trigger it, after appropriate scrutiny of the plans. Which is as it should be - even though I entirely disagree with the result of the referendum.

But it's parliament's decision, not Theresa May's. That's the point. If we start allowing UK law to be so fundamentally changed by a single individual or an advisory referendum (whether you like it or not - that's all the referendum was) then we're no longer a parliamentary democracy.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

They voted already. They said they'd implement our decision. Cameron said he would trigger article 50 the day after if he lost...oddly nobody was complaining then.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"So we have a democracy , we vote , and the result is challenged . This is the beginning of a possible end to democracy as we know it .

We already have the Scottish MPs voting against everything we wish to implement , and now this .

Farcical , and it makes me wonder why bother with voting in the first place .

You don't understand democracy.

As someone else said, these kind of referendums are more akin to a republic - which we do not live in.

We have a parliamentary democracy where we vote for people who know more than ourselves to make decisions on our behalf. Which is exactly what the court just ruled in favour of...

Well if we , the electorate , vote to leave , then surely the current government should trigger article 50 .

It's just a stalling point ."

No, because *we* only get to elect our representatives in a parliamentary democracy. Our elected representatives make the decisions on our behalf.

The referendum was never anything more than an advisory poll.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Actually, what happened was, that we got democracy.

You see, in democracy, we vote for people to make decisions for us. Because we mostly can't be trusted to do our research before we make big decisions - as a nation.

So the court have said 'Yes, those people who you all chose to elect? They *do* have a say in what happens.'

Because that's democracy."

Tony Blair will be walking around with a big grin on his face today. That can only mean it's a very bad day for democracy.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

[Removed by poster at 03/11/16 13:33:00]

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

" This is the beginning of a possible end to democracy as we know it ."
That is right and the human rights to. Our human rights "was" protected by a complex collection of laws and treaties. The treaties which the UK signed up to by being part of the EU ensured a minimum standard of protection for various rights.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"So we have a democracy , we vote , and the result is challenged . This is the beginning of a possible end to democracy as we know it .

We already have the Scottish MPs voting against everything we wish to implement , and now this .

Farcical , and it makes me wonder why bother with voting in the first place .

So if the parliamentary democracy decides not to trigger article 50 , that's democracy ?

How so ?

Well said.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

If democracy works as people think it should then the Act of Parliament should pass.

However, personally, I think the MPs should follow how their consituencies voted in the referendum for a true reflection of the result.

So I would expect the NI MPs to vote against leaving, the Scots MPs to vote against, London MPs to vote against etc etc

The Midlands MPs where I am should vote for as that is what the Midlands wanted even though it isn't what I personally wanted.

Whatever the result of the Parliament vote, and I don't know how it would turn out, should be the binding law of the land.

Just my opinion.

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By *abioMan
over a year ago

Newcastle and Gateshead

So if the parliamentary democracy decides not to trigger article 50 , that's democracy ?

How so ?

An MP would be committing political suicide by voting against if the majority of people in their area voted for

I just see an irony in leavers who voted to go to give more power to parliament now wanting that power taken from them...

At this point what do government have to lose by having a debate about the opening position of any negotiation... at least we would finally have some idea of what brexit meant to the average person?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"If democracy works as people think it should then the Act of Parliament should pass.

However, personally, I think the MPs should follow how their consituencies voted in the referendum for a true reflection of the result.

So I would expect the NI MPs to vote against leaving, the Scots MPs to vote against, London MPs to vote against etc etc

The Midlands MPs where I am should vote for as that is what the Midlands wanted even though it isn't what I personally wanted.

Whatever the result of the Parliament vote, and I don't know how it would turn out, should be the binding law of the land.

Just my opinion."

Well put, but MPs vote with their conscience, as is always the case. Wales voted to leave, but almost all MPs here want to stay. I would assume that will carry the vote here?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

A ruling by British judges, that's all the Brexiteers ever wanted right?

British judges ruling on British matters.

Hope your enjoying your sovereignty lol

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By *dsindyTV/TS
over a year ago

East Lancashire

And now the leavers find out that leaving may mean staying, because the powers they wanted to give back to Parliament mean Parliament can ignore their wishes if they so vote......ohhhhhhh, the leavers will be frothing at the mouth and the stayers will be laughing like Tony Blair.

Loving this

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"(Also, I was planning to fuck off to the EU when I'd finished my education. BUT NOW I CAN'T BECAUSE SOME PEOPLE VOTED TO TAKE AWAY MY RIGHT TO DO THAT.)"

That just shows you have chosen the wrong subject, under studied and a poor achiever

if you chose the right subjects and done well in your study then not just the EU but the whole World could be your oyster and you could select any destination.

Still there is always potato picking

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"(Also, I was planning to fuck off to the EU when I'd finished my education. BUT NOW I CAN'T BECAUSE SOME PEOPLE VOTED TO TAKE AWAY MY RIGHT TO DO THAT.)

That just shows you have chosen the wrong subject, under studied and a poor achiever

if you chose the right subjects and done well in your study then not just the EU but the whole World could be your oyster and you could select any destination.

Still there is always potato picking

Do you A). Work in academics, B.) Understand the funding restriction issues, and C.) Understand the recruitment process for non-nationals, and D.) Have a fucking clue how many capable people are not able to conduct research or help in it due to lack of funding or restrictions of movement.

Honestly, friends of mine in Australia and America hate their system as their immigration system stops talented people from coming into their country to do research, and funnily enough these are people less likely to take bribes or 'donations' from national companies eg tobacco, fossil fuel, economics, banks.

Oh ad it restricts a student's access to research and ideas.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

It would have been very worrying if the judges had ruled the other way.

It's outrageous that an unelected Prime Minister would attempt to go ahead without the full democratic process.

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By *uzy444Woman
over a year ago

in the suffolk countryside

what a farce

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

This is going drag up a can of worms !

1 people would go mad if it was the other way round

2 we vote for a party not a pm

3 our system is un democratic anyway as all votes arnt equal

We voted Out , let's Get Out !

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"It would have been very worrying if the judges had ruled the other way.

It's outrageous that an unelected Prime Minister would attempt to go ahead without the full democratic process."
.

Nobody complained when major signed us all up to Maastricht! Debated in parliament yes, mandated by the people, no.... Surely it goes both ways

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"This is going drag up a can of worms !

1 people would go mad if it was the other way round

2 we vote for a party not a pm

3 our system is un democratic anyway as all votes arnt equal

We voted Out , let's Get Out !"

1. It isn't and being as it was about 50/50 I imagine it would be the same response either way.

2. We have a government with a marginal majority led by a leader with no mandate.

3. By that logic you'd settle for a dictatorship.

"We" didn't vote out. Slightly over half the people who voted did. That doesn't make it acceptable to not use due process.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

we should all simply get on with life and make the most of Brexit without whinging

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"we should all simply get on with life and make the most of Brexit without whinging"

This argument pretty much sums up the whole Brexit campaign

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By *ola cubesMan
over a year ago

coatbridge

"(Also, I was planning to fuck off to the EU when I'd finished my education. BUT NOW I CAN'T BECAUSE SOME PEOPLE VOTED TO TAKE AWAY MY RIGHT TO DO THAT.)"
theres nothing stopping you going to europe.....you just have to meet their criteria for visa or to become a citizen

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"It would have been very worrying if the judges had ruled the other way.

It's outrageous that an unelected Prime Minister would attempt to go ahead without the full democratic process..

Nobody complained when major signed us all up to Maastricht! Debated in parliament yes, mandated by the people, no.... Surely it goes both ways"

Actually, lots of people complained. ...and complained and complained and complained

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"It would have been very worrying if the judges had ruled the other way.

It's outrageous that an unelected Prime Minister would attempt to go ahead without the full democratic process..

Nobody complained when major signed us all up to Maastricht! Debated in parliament yes, mandated by the people, no.... Surely it goes both ways

Actually, lots of people complained. ...and complained and complained and complained

"
. So where was my high court overruling of parliaments decision to change my constitution without my consent....

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By *erbyDalesCplCouple
over a year ago

Derbyshire

"So where was my high court overruling of parliaments decision to change my constitution without my consent....

I think you're missing the point. Parliament took that decision then, the court today simply said Parliament should take this decision too. That is what happens in a Parliamentary Democracy. It doesn't necessarily mean the referendum will be ignored.

Mr ddc

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"So where was my high court overruling of parliaments decision to change my constitution without my consent....

Did you take it to court?

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By *abioMan
over a year ago

Newcastle and Gateshead

I still don't know why leavers have blown a gasket over this...

you wanted the UK Parliament to have power over making decisions... this is what you got isn't it?

after all, all this is about at the moment is a debate about what the position should be at the START of the negioiations... nothing else

I don't know about most of you whatever side you happen to be on... but I would at least want to know what the governments vision of what "Leave" should look like (rather that just the inane "brexit means brexit")..... rather than just have an almighty surprise at the end of the 2 years!!!!

there is nothing wrong with scrutiny and debate about what leave should look like.... different people are going to have different views on what it looks like, I would rather have 650mp's look at that than just a handful of government ministers!!!

no one is take your result away from you!! in fact... this is the result you wanted!

no power from brussels!

uk laws decided and intrepreted by uk courts!!!

i don't see what problem is....

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"It would have been very worrying if the judges had ruled the other way.

It's outrageous that an unelected Prime Minister would attempt to go ahead without the full democratic process."

What's outrageous is the fact that MPs like Sturgeon and her SNP rabble with an avowed pro-EU agenda will now have a say in the manner of our exit! And the end result could be a far cry from the de-coupling the majority of us want and anticipated!

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"So where was my high court overruling of parliaments decision to change my constitution without my consent....

Mr ddc"
.

That's not the point I'm making!.

Why just parliament then and now it's referendum and parliament?.

I'm personally fully in favour of the ruling but that's neither here nor there

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"It would have been very worrying if the judges had ruled the other way.

It's outrageous that an unelected Prime Minister would attempt to go ahead without the full democratic process.

Nope. That's an elected parliament.

As for the decoupling the 'majority' of people wanted... find me two people that can agree on exactly what that was!

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By *erbyDalesCplCouple
over a year ago

Derbyshire

Mr ddc.

That's not the point I'm making!.

Why just parliament then and now it's referendum and parliament?.

I'm personally fully in favour of the ruling but that's neither here nor there"

The difference was Cameron's gamble that by winning a referendum, he could silence both UKIP and his own right-wing, but his gamble failed. I don't believe the referendum was a serious democratic exercise as such.

But now, having asked the question, Parliament has to deal with it. I'm not sure anyone ever really considered what would happen if he lost

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Actually, what happened was, that we got democracy.

You see, in democracy, we vote for people to make decisions for us. Because we mostly can't be trusted to do our research before we make big decisions - as a nation.

So the court have said 'Yes, those people who you all chose to elect? They *do* have a say in what happens.'

Because that's democracy."

Agreed, there are threads over in politics about this.

It's a brilliant day for democracy!

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"So we have a democracy , we vote , and the result is challenged . This is the beginning of a possible end to democracy as we know it .

We already have the Scottish MPs voting against everything we wish to implement , and now this .

Farcical , and it makes me wonder why bother with voting in the first place .

So if the parliamentary democracy decides not to trigger article 50 , that's democracy ?

How so ?

It certainly is.

We live in a parliamemtary democracy. We don't govern by plebiscite.

That is how it works, like it or lump it.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"They voted already. They said they'd implement our decision. Cameron said he would trigger article 50 the day after if he lost...oddly nobody was complaining then.

But, that statement was by the government, which is the executive not parliament.

Parliament is sovereign, not the executive, not us the people.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"It would have been very worrying if the judges had ruled the other way.

It's outrageous that an unelected Prime Minister would attempt to go ahead without the full democratic process."

Exactly, a great day!

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I didnt vote due to the bullshit from both sides. Maybe not entitled to my opinion. But cant say i never saw this coming. More broken promises from an untrustworthy government.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"I didnt vote due to the bullshit from both sides. Maybe not entitled to my opinion. But cant say i never saw this coming. More broken promises from an untrustworthy government."

Didn't vote?

Crazy!

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

It is called sovereignty and democracy.

It is way of ensuring that the 29.5 million of the electorate that didn't vote Brexit (and the 15 million that aren't able to vote) are not dictated to by the minority 17 million.

Sovereignty - look it up, it is what you voted for (and look, you can even have it when still within the EU!)

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"I didnt vote due to the bullshit from both sides. Maybe not entitled to my opinion. But cant say i never saw this coming. More broken promises from an untrustworthy government."

Not a promise you were bothered enough about to vote for though.

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By *inky-MinxWoman
over a year ago

Grantham

"(Also, I was planning to fuck off to the EU when I'd finished my education. BUT NOW I CAN'T BECAUSE SOME PEOPLE VOTED TO TAKE AWAY MY RIGHT TO DO THAT.)"

You can still go to Europe or did you mean you were going to work in the EU the organisation?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"I didnt vote due to the bullshit from both sides. Maybe not entitled to my opinion. But cant say i never saw this coming. More broken promises from an untrustworthy government.

Not a promise you were bothered enough about to vote for though."

Like i say was scaremongering and bullshit from both sides of the fence. nothing that was promised by leave has really come to fruition, as for remain absolutely the same neither side gave me any real reason to vote.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"I didnt vote due to the bullshit from both sides. Maybe not entitled to my opinion. But cant say i never saw this coming. More broken promises from an untrustworthy government.

Not a promise you were bothered enough about to vote for though.

Therefore neither side has broken any promises made to you.

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By *inky-MinxWoman
over a year ago

Grantham

"I didnt vote due to the bullshit from both sides. Maybe not entitled to my opinion. But cant say i never saw this coming. More broken promises from an untrustworthy government.

Not a promise you were bothered enough about to vote for though.

Sadly a lot of people listened to all the bollocks and didn't do their own research

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"I didnt vote due to the bullshit from both sides. Maybe not entitled to my opinion. But cant say i never saw this coming. More broken promises from an untrustworthy government.

Not a promise you were bothered enough about to vote for though.

Therefore neither side has broken any promises made to you."

To me no but to the voting public yes

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"I didnt vote due to the bullshit from both sides. Maybe not entitled to my opinion. But cant say i never saw this coming. More broken promises from an untrustworthy government.

Not a promise you were bothered enough about to vote for though.

Therefore neither side has broken any promises made to you.

To me no but to the voting public yes"

Which promises have they broken then?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"I didnt vote due to the bullshit from both sides. Maybe not entitled to my opinion. But cant say i never saw this coming. More broken promises from an untrustworthy government.

Not a promise you were bothered enough about to vote for though.

Therefore neither side has broken any promises made to you.

To me no but to the voting public yes

Which promises have they broken then?"

Money to NHS lies leave the single market yet still want to trade in the single market

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"I didnt vote due to the bullshit from both sides. Maybe not entitled to my opinion. But cant say i never saw this coming. More broken promises from an untrustworthy government.

Not a promise you were bothered enough about to vote for though.

Therefore neither side has broken any promises made to you.

To me no but to the voting public yes

Which promises have they broken then?

Money to NHS lies leave the single market yet still want to trade in the single market"

The issue here surely wasn't these 'promises' but rather that people were prepared to believe them when they were manifestly untrue?

And, of course, that the people making said 'promises' had no authority to do so.

As has been said above, if people had done some basic research the vote may have been different. Either way of course.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"I didnt vote due to the bullshit from both sides. Maybe not entitled to my opinion. But cant say i never saw this coming. More broken promises from an untrustworthy government.

Not a promise you were bothered enough about to vote for though.

Therefore neither side has broken any promises made to you.

To me no but to the voting public yes

Which promises have they broken then?

Money to NHS lies leave the single market yet still want to trade in the single market

The issue here surely wasn't these 'promises' but rather that people were prepared to believe them when they were manifestly untrue?

And, of course, that the people making said 'promises' had no authority to do so.

As has been said above, if people had done some basic research the vote may have been different. Either way of course."

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"It is called sovereignty and democracy.

It is way of ensuring that the 29.5 million of the electorate that didn't vote Brexit (and the 15 million that aren't able to vote) are not dictated to by the minority 17 million.

Sovereignty - look it up, it is what you voted for (and look, you can even have it when still within the EU!)

Surely this is the absolute nub of the argument! Well done! Spot on!

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"It would have been very worrying if the judges had ruled the other way.

It's outrageous that an unelected Prime Minister would attempt to go ahead without the full democratic process."

Another spot on post!

Beats me how abyone can argue otherwise, especially if they voted Brexit to 'restore the sovereignty of the UK'!

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By *icketysplitsWoman
over a year ago

Way over Yonder, that's where I'm bound

"It would have been very worrying if the judges had ruled the other way.

It's outrageous that an unelected Prime Minister would attempt to go ahead without the full democratic process.

Another spot on post!

Beats me how abyone can argue otherwise, especially if they voted Brexit to 'restore the sovereignty of the UK'!"

I may not watch QT tonight as the comments on this thread will be repeated and those that failed to understand the nature of referenda will just continue to get agitated.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"It would have been very worrying if the judges had ruled the other way.

It's outrageous that an unelected Prime Minister would attempt to go ahead without the full democratic process.

Another spot on post!

Beats me how abyone can argue otherwise, especially if they voted Brexit to 'restore the sovereignty of the UK'!

I may not watch QT tonight as the comments on this thread will be repeated and those that failed to understand the nature of referenda will just continue to get agitated.

Aye, no chance! I'd end up throwing something at the telly!

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By *icketysplitsWoman
over a year ago

Way over Yonder, that's where I'm bound

"It would have been very worrying if the judges had ruled the other way.

It's outrageous that an unelected Prime Minister would attempt to go ahead without the full democratic process.

Another spot on post!

Beats me how abyone can argue otherwise, especially if they voted Brexit to 'restore the sovereignty of the UK'!

I may not watch QT tonight as the comments on this thread will be repeated and those that failed to understand the nature of referenda will just continue to get agitated.

Aye, no chance! I'd end up throwing something at the telly!"

The first question and Sajid Javid that it's wrong. A parliamentarian who doesn't understand parliamentary democracy.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"It would have been very worrying if the judges had ruled the other way.

It's outrageous that an unelected Prime Minister would attempt to go ahead without the full democratic process.

Another spot on post!

Beats me how abyone can argue otherwise, especially if they voted Brexit to 'restore the sovereignty of the UK'!

I may not watch QT tonight as the comments on this thread will be repeated and those that failed to understand the nature of referenda will just continue to get agitated.

Aye, no chance! I'd end up throwing something at the telly!

The first question and Sajid Javid that it's wrong. A parliamentarian who doesn't understand parliamentary democracy.

I find it reassuring when a twat disagrees with me. And he's a massive twat.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"It would have been very worrying if the judges had ruled the other way.

It's outrageous that an unelected Prime Minister would attempt to go ahead without the full democratic process.

Another spot on post!

Beats me how abyone can argue otherwise, especially if they voted Brexit to 'restore the sovereignty of the UK'!

I may not watch QT tonight as the comments on this thread will be repeated and those that failed to understand the nature of referenda will just continue to get agitated.

Aye, no chance! I'd end up throwing something at the telly!

The first question and Sajid Javid that it's wrong. A parliamentarian who doesn't understand parliamentary democracy.

Well, that's why we have the Civil Service and judges who do know the law and the principle of parliamentary democracy! Thank the gods!

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By *adystephanieTV/TS
over a year ago

glos

Don't you just love politics......

The simple fact is if you were able to vote via FB or instagram etc without taking your eyes off your mobile we wouldn't have got in this mess as our younger and far more experienced generation would have kept us well in the EU....;-(

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By *ophieslutTV/TS
over a year ago

Central

I believe that our government should act legally. It's a clear and simple thing that we've elected people to represent us and that they should now do so by debate in parliament, without further waste of public money pursuing a legal appeal.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Mr ddc.

That's not the point I'm making!.

Why just parliament then and now it's referendum and parliament?.

I'm personally fully in favour of the ruling but that's neither here nor there

But now, having asked the question, Parliament has to deal with it. I'm not sure anyone ever really considered what would happen if he lost

"
.

So let's reverse that question, let's say parliament was in favour of Maastricht but the people aren't.

Of course we'll never know because they never gave us that decision!.

But let's say we rejected it in the 90s...

....

What I'm trying to point out is this hypocrisy of sovereignty, it only exists when they decide it exists..... Every other time it's... Well nothing to concern you?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"I believe that our government should act legally. It's a clear and simple thing that we've elected people to represent us and that they should now do so by debate in parliament, without further waste of public money pursuing a legal appeal."

I heard on question time that the law requiring a vote in parliament was written in the 16th century. You would have thought that the MPs would have learned that one by now really....

As I said right up near the top of this thread, it's a rubber stamp vote, but it is OUR law, and the prime minister is bound by it.

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By *ingdong11Man
over a year ago

emsworth

"I didnt vote due to the bullshit from both sides. Maybe not entitled to my opinion. But cant say i never saw this coming. More broken promises from an untrustworthy government.

Not a promise you were bothered enough about to vote for though.

of course nothing has come to fruition ....we have not left yet!

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By *iscomanMan
over a year ago

Solihull

We are waiting in anticipation as to being shafted once again

God help US if Trump gets in America

Now there's a loudmouth , twisted , pervt yank that will have to stick his big fat gob into our affairs

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

So much bull crap!

The people voted to leave the EU in an in out referendum, and Theresa May lied about BREXIT means BREXIT, then delayed A50 long enough for the High Court to challenge and rule against the will of the majority of British people.

Now the narrative is that it will still go through and that parliament will respect the referendum, utter bollocks!

The people of this nation are being layed bare and screwed yet again. We might as well give up sovereignty and let Angela Merkel rule over us.

PATHETIC!

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I hope he wins, a blessed relief from the pathetic liberal fucktards that they have had to put up with as late.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"I hope he wins, a blessed relief from the pathetic liberal fucktards that they have had to put up with as late."

And applying a taser to your testicles relieves the tedium of standard cotton briefs. But it isn't really a great idea to really do it

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"I hope he wins, a blessed relief from the pathetic liberal fucktards that they have had to put up with as late.

And applying a taser to your testicles relieves the tedium of standard cotton briefs. But it isn't really a great idea to really do it

And that is your mentality?

God help us all!

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By *riskynriskyCouple
over a year ago

Essex.

" This is the beginning of a possible end to democracy as we know it .That is right and the human rights to. Our human rights "was" protected by a complex collection of laws and treaties. The treaties which the UK signed up to by being part of the EU ensured a minimum standard of protection for various rights."

I hate to disappoint but the human rights was only brought in by Tony on the say so of his wife as a money maker...

The UK's laws protected people to a level that we were not required to sigh up to human rights.

The funny thing is people state that our insular islander mentality means we look inwards pulling away from the EU.

I would say that many of the pro EU are inward looking. Stop looking towards the EU when there is the whole world to trade with...

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"I hope he wins, a blessed relief from the pathetic liberal fucktards that they have had to put up with as late.

And applying a taser to your testicles relieves the tedium of standard cotton briefs. But it isn't really a great idea to really do it

And that is your mentality?

God help us all!"

History teaches us that radical change in politics especially nationalistic change can cause issues.

King Alaric, may have had good reason, but the result was not good for most.

Gengis Kahn was a great and inspirational leader, but most of Asia and the middle east were not so keen.

Hitler rescued Germany from economic recession, but it didn't end well...

Pol Pot, had the idea that a simple life based on agriculture and shutting out modernism and global trade. would make a peaceful enclave for his countrymen.

Donald Trump? just because he isn't establishment? in charge of one of the biggest economies in the wotld? I kind of hope we never need to find out where that path may lead.

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By *dwalu2Couple
over a year ago

Bristol

Is it really any surprise that all the Brexiteers who thought they were voting to 'take back our sovereignty' (which we already had), have no idea how our sovereignty actually works?

I suppose you've got to laugh!

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"So much bull crap!

Now the narrative is that it will still go through and that parliament will respect the referendum, utter bollocks!

The people of this nation are being layed bare and screwed yet again. We might as well give up sovereignty and let Angela Merkel rule over us.

PATHETIC! "

Goodness, I can hear that vein throbbing from here!

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By *ouple in LancashireCouple
over a year ago

in Lancashire

"So much bull crap!

Now the narrative is that it will still go through and that parliament will respect the referendum, utter bollocks!

The people of this nation are being layed bare and screwed yet again. We might as well give up sovereignty and let Angela Merkel rule over us.

PATHETIC! "

dude chill, your going to gat all hot n bothered and your tin foil hat wont help..

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By *icksfocusMan
over a year ago

Pontefract

We should accept the decision by the Courts yesterday and put it to Parliament for a vote, not appeal. They have to vote on the instruction from their constituents. Any MP's who decide to vote against their instruction should be named.

We have asked for more control for our Courts and Laws and that is what we got. Delays are causing uncertainty so lets just move forward.

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By *uited staffs guyMan
over a year ago

staffordshire

"We should accept the decision by the Courts yesterday and put it to Parliament for a vote, not appeal. They have to vote on the instruction from their constituents. Any MP's who decide to vote against their instruction should be named.

We have asked for more control for our Courts and Laws and that is what we got. Delays are causing uncertainty so lets just move forward."

What? MPs vote against their constituents wishes all the time?

That's not new? Who in the country wanted for or even votes for the disastrous NHS reforms we had in the last parliament? Didn't stop the MPs voting for them

If you don't like your MP the way it works in the uk is you have your say at an election

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By *iamondjoeMan
over a year ago

Glastonbury

*sits at the back of the class, yawning and flicking bogies at the clueless armchair generals*

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By *icksfocusMan
over a year ago

Pontefract

We have asked for more control for our Courts and Laws and that is what we got. Delays are causing uncertainty so lets just move forward.

What? MPs vote against their constituents wishes all the time?

That's not new? Who in the country wanted for or even votes for the disastrous NHS reforms we had in the last parliament? Didn't stop the MPs voting for them

If you don't like your MP the way it works in the uk is you have your say at an election "

Which may be sooner than later

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By *uited staffs guyMan
over a year ago

staffordshire

We have asked for more control for our Courts and Laws and that is what we got. Delays are causing uncertainty so lets just move forward.

What? MPs vote against their constituents wishes all the time?

That's not new? Who in the country wanted for or even votes for the disastrous NHS reforms we had in the last parliament? Didn't stop the MPs voting for them

If you don't like your MP the way it works in the uk is you have your say at an election

Which may be sooner than later "

Yes indeed!

Personally I'd prefer a sort of STV voting system where you had a choice of candidates from each party and you could pick the one that fitted your views on various topics e.g. Brexit rather than being stuck with the single one central office decides

but overall Parliament is how we do things - Maastricht, Lisbon etc etc all the big things our country does goes through parliament

Personally I think they should ratify article 50 as that is the embodiment of the referendum but everything after that the referendum has no bearing on and is for parliament to decide

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By *ichaelangelaCouple
over a year ago

notts

"(Also, I was planning to fuck off to the EU when I'd finished my education. BUT NOW I CAN'T BECAUSE SOME PEOPLE VOTED TO TAKE AWAY MY RIGHT TO DO THAT.)"

So. If I'm wrong here then I apologise in advance. The way I read your posts are that the U.K are educating you as a mature student and when you get to where you need to be you intend to take the skills you have got at the taxpayers expense to another country and to do that you also need our healthcare benefits too??

Again. Sorry if I have interpreted this wrong.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

some up his or her high court judge

has just shown us all , that no matter

what, we have no democracy no rights

By over ruling our wishs, most likely.

one of the perverts that let lord tanner.

Or the BBC that doesnt want the british

normal worker to have any rights.

And we go to war to export democracy all

i say is god help us, why dont they all

go to the Eu and fuck off."

The high court ruled that parliament should vote on it. So MPs should do just that and woe betide any MP who goes against his/her constituents wishes. If a decision cannot be reached then call a general election.

May cannot advise the public or parliament of her BREXIT plans simply because she cannot show her her cards upfront when she needs to deal with the rest of Europe.

I voted remain but respect the democratic right of others all this uncertainty WILL have a devastating affect on us all inflation, the rate of the pound dropping and house prices are already being reduced just check on rightmove for your area the amount that are 'just reduced today'

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By *eedsandyMan
over a year ago

Leeds

Are we really being so naive as to think that this is just about impartial judges interpreting a point of law?

Of course it should be appealed and the appeal must be successful, because we all know, and those judges know better than anyone exactly what is going to happen otherwise.

The SNP will definitely vote against leaving, whatever the terms are. Some other MP's will vote against leaving too, in spite of the will of the people as expressed by the referendum.

However, technically, even if there has to be a General Election which will virtually wipe out the Labour Party and reduce the number of SNP MPs, the vote is likely to be passed in Parliament.

The House of Lords however are likely to reject it, so then it will be back to the Commons, and the Government will have to use the Parliament Act to overrule the Lords. Cue delay, which is just what these judges and the Metropolitan Elite about whom the country are sick of want.

Then the Bill will get bogged down with "soft Brexit, "hard Brexit", trade terms, immigration, freedom of movement and all that type of detail and we will never end up leaving, because no one will agree on the detail.

The country clearly voted to leave. Advisory? Yeah Right! The result was a clear instruction to the Government what the country wanted. This is not like asking a child what it wants for dinner and then ignoring it when it wants sweets and crisps. This is like telling a decorator that you want red walls. He might hate red walls, and as he is not a slave, you cannot make him paint them red, you can only ask him, but if he ignores you and paints them green, then quite rightly you will sack him, not pay him and sue him for the cost of painting them red.

There is no difference here. The Government have been told that the country wants to leave the EU and we should now leave and no one should stand in the way of that.

The big problem is, and this is why the Government quite rightly don't want to put it to Parliament,

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Trouble is NO one wants to completely leave the EU.

The REMAIN voter voted to remain warts and all the LEAVE voters voted on the pretence that EU immigration would be blocked and the money being paid to the EU would go on other things like the NHS.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

We have asked for more control for our Courts and Laws and that is what we got. Delays are causing uncertainty so lets just move forward."

MPs vote According to their conscience, not on a general consensus of their constituents opinions. See:

They work for you website for MPs voting records. Possibly an eye opener for some.

https://www.theyworkforyou.com

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By *eedsandyMan
over a year ago

Leeds

Leave meant leave. Everyone who voted understood that. It is rather patronising when people say that leave didn't mean leave.

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By *ouple in LancashireCouple
over a year ago

in Lancashire

When we went to war (illegally in my opinion) there was a vote in Parliament, there will be a vote in Parliament on whether the executive's decision will go ahead in a 3rd runway at Heathrow..

and yet some people on this want to ignore the same sovereign body in this..?

was it not one of the core principles on which some cast their vote in June?

returning our democracy ring any bells..?

you can not pick and choose which decisions and who gets to make them, its either Parliament or nothing..

it will be delayed yes but it will go through, given it is one of the biggest constitutional challenges in negotiating and changes to possibly many area's of our lives and our kids, kids futures does it not deserve more than a cherry picked date by a PM who seems to be making it up as she goes along..?

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By *eedsandyMan
over a year ago

Leeds

It does not need any debate or any delay. We just need to leave.

Had there been a referedum on the illegal war, which there should have been, and the country said no, then again there should have been no debate, we should not then have gone to war as the country said no.

There would have been nothing to debate. It is the same here.

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By *dwalu2Couple
over a year ago

Bristol

"It does not need any debate or any delay. We just need to leave.

There would have been nothing to debate. It is the same here. "

Considering the vast majority of our legal and trading systems are intertwined with the EU, saying 'we just need to leave' makes as much sense as saying 'we just need to learn to breathe underwater'.

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By *abioMan
over a year ago

Newcastle and Gateshead

"Leave meant leave. Everyone who voted understood that. It is rather patronising when people say that leave didn't mean leave."

So then what would you say to the Tory leave MP who has resigned today based on the way the government have handled it so far....

Obviously his version of leave and your version look like two different things... and that is the point! The government haven't indicated to anyone what their version of leave looks like other than saying brexit means brexit!

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By *eedsandyMan
over a year ago

Leeds

One last time. Leave means leave. No longer a member of the EU.

There is no scope for his version/my version.

It just means cease to be a member of the EU.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Leave meant leave. Everyone who voted understood that. It is rather patronising when people say that leave didn't mean leave."

It's not. I know people who voted leave because they wanted to leave the EU, but they wanted to stay in the single market. I know others who voted leave but wanted to retain freedom of movement. And others who voted to leave as a fuck you to the government, nothing to do with the actual EU. The leavers couldn't even agree between themselves what it meant.

You can't "just leave", you have to put laws and agreements and arrangements in place to replace those that you've voted to chuck in the bin.

All this "just leave" shit is the height of naivety and ignorance about how government actually works in this country (you know, that thing you claim to have voted to protect the sovereignty of).

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

We have asked for more control for our Courts and Laws and that is what we got. Delays are causing uncertainty so lets just move forward."

A couple of points here...

MPs do not have to vote 'on the instruction from their constituents', the way it works is you vote for the candidate you want to represent you, they are not your proxy.

In each vote the details of how MPs vote is publicised.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"The country clearly voted to leave. Advisory? Yeah Right! The result was a clear instruction to the Government what the country wanted. "

OK, it was a legitimate referendum. But, what about the interests of the, well over 50% of the population, who did not vote to leave?

That's the true beauty of parliamentary deomcracy, it is able to take the wider view.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"It does not need any debate or any delay. We just need to leave.

There would have been nothing to debate. It is the same here. "

You are demonstrating a lack of understanding of our democracy. We do not govern by plebiscite, we govern my parliamentary democracy.

The interesting point about many of the arguments here is that so many people just don't seem to get this.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Here here!

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Is it really any surprise that all the Brexiteers who thought they were voting to 'take back our sovereignty' (which we already had), have no idea how our sovereignty actually works?

I suppose you've got to laugh!

It is really quite worrying at the level of ignorance at how our democracy works!

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"(Also, I was planning to fuck off to the EU when I'd finished my education. BUT NOW I CAN'T BECAUSE SOME PEOPLE VOTED TO TAKE AWAY MY RIGHT TO DO THAT.)

Again. Sorry if I have interpreted this wrong. "

Your question could just be for clarification, in which case, OK.

But I suspect from your tone that you are suggesting that there would be something wrong in this approach?

Are you saying that no one who is educated or receives health care here should be allowed to leave?

If this isn't what you are saying, please clarify.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

referendum

?r?f?'r?nd?m/

noun

a general vote by the electorate on a single political question which has been referred to them for a direct decision.

Thats ny take.

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By *enard ArgenteMan
over a year ago

London and France

....." for an opinion or a direct decision".....

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

When the Scots and Welsh voted in referenda for devolution, the results were accepted. When the Scots voted in the independence referendum, the result was accepted. So, what is different with this one? It is like the establishment pick and choose which results from referenda they accept.

The whole argument about people who didn't vote being lumped in with retainers is getting a bit tiresome too. No one assumes non-voters in elections must automatically side with the government or opposition, so why do they keep getting trotted out in this discussion.

The government proposed a question, the electorate were asked to choose 'in' or 'out'. The choose was 'out', Parliament should debate the issue but ratify it and move on.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"When the Scots and Welsh voted in referenda for devolution, the results were accepted. When the Scots voted in the independence referendum, the result was accepted. So, what is different with this one? It is like the establishment pick and choose which results from referenda they accept.

The government proposed a question, the electorate were asked to choose 'in' or 'out'. The choose was 'out', Parliament should debate the issue but ratify it and move on."

The referendum result hasn't been rejected. Have you read the ruling?

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By *enard ArgenteMan
over a year ago

London and France

The government proposed a question, the electorate were asked to choose 'in' or 'out'. The choose was 'out', Parliament should debate the issue but ratify it and move on.

The referendum result hasn't been rejected. Have you read the ruling?"

This

The court case was about whether parliament has to ratify it.

In the referendums mentioned above:they were " pre- legislative" that is tobdayvtheyvwere to find out what the majority wanted; then to carry out acts of parliament to make it happen:

This referendum , apart from having a question which was too simplistic,also (by British constitution, unless did officially stated otherwise) was to find the opinion of the electorate so that appropriate parliamentary measures could be taken.

The challenge has nothing to do with overturning the referendum result; it's to challenge the government which is trying to subvert parliamentary ( and constitutional) practice)

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

What I find tiresome are the knuckle dragging fuckwits in the media who speak as though the whole country is demanding Brexit.

Almost half the voters voted against.

Of the other half who voted for, half did so on the basis of utter bullshit, and most the rest did so because they enjoy masturbating to the sounds of Michael Gove. No two of them could agree on what Brexit actually means (or involves).

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

....they enjoy masturbating to the sounds of Michael Gove"

I was just a little bit sick in my mouth

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I voted Brexit and I Simple want our Country to be responsible for all our laws !

End of !

Argue about trade later .

Frankly I don't mind if know one trades with us !

We can feed ourselves

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

....they enjoy masturbating to the sounds of Michael Gove

I was just a little bit sick in my mouth

That's a Govian climax

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"We can feed ourselves

No we can't

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"The whole argument about people who didn't vote being lumped in with retainers is getting a bit tiresome too. No one assumes non-voters in elections must automatically side with the government or opposition, so why do they keep getting trotted out in this discussion."

They are trotted out to show that we need to remember those that didn't vote. Now, I have very little time for those who didn't by choice (I regard voting as a sacrosanct duty) but we do need to consider those who couldn't, over 11 million under 15s for example (source CIA factbook).

There are of course others, 15 to 18 year olds and more. Are they to be ignored without some form of protection of their interests? That is the job of parliament, that is one of the reasons our parliamentary democracy is beautiful.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"I voted Brexit and I Simple want our Country to be responsible for all our laws !

End of !

Argue about trade later .

Frankly I don't mind if know one trades with us !

We can feed ourselves

Good for you! So I take it you support the High Court ruling?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"We can feed ourselves

No we can't

Why can't we ? Please explain ?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"We can feed ourselves

No we can't

You are so right there! Millions would starve if we tried, literally!

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"We can feed ourselves

No we can't

Why can't we ? Please explain ?"

Go and research it yourself. We haven't been able to for years.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"We can feed ourselves

No we can't

Why can't we ? Please explain ?"

We don't have enough food production capacity to feed ourselves. OK, perhaps if we went to WWII rationing, but even then we couldn't. No chance now!

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"I voted Brexit and I Simple want our Country to be responsible for all our laws !

End of !

Argue about trade later .

Frankly I don't mind if know one trades with us !

We can feed ourselves

Good for you! So I take it you support the High Court ruling?"

I wouldn't have had it happen , we voted Out , we should be out now !

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"We can feed ourselves

No we can't

Why can't we ? Please explain ?

We don't have enough food production capacity to feed ourselves. OK, perhaps if we went to WWII rationing, but even then we couldn't. No chance now!"

We could easily

and guess what ?

No unemployment

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Even in WW2 we could only manage 75% self sufficiency.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"We can feed ourselves

No we can't

Why can't we ? Please explain ?

We don't have enough food production capacity to feed ourselves. OK, perhaps if we went to WWII rationing, but even then we couldn't. No chance now!

We could easily

and guess what ?

No unemployment

Dreamland my friend!

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"I voted Brexit and I Simple want our Country to be responsible for all our laws !

End of !

Argue about trade later .

Frankly I don't mind if know one trades with us !

We can feed ourselves

Good for you! So I take it you support the High Court ruling?

I wouldn't have had it happen , we voted Out , we should be out now !

But you said our country responsible for our laws. Which is exactly what the High Court said. Because, parliament has sovereignty.

Chess, pigeons, here we go again!

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I want my bwexit and if I don't get it wight now I'll scweam and scweam and scweam until I make myself sick!!

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"I want my bwexit and if I don't get it wight now I'll scweam and scweam and scweam until I make myself sick!!

Are you stamping your foot too?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"I want my bwexit and if I don't get it wight now I'll scweam and scweam and scweam until I make myself sick!!

Lol

yes take the Micky x

But yes I do ! And yes I'm Screaming

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"I want my bwexit and if I don't get it wight now I'll scweam and scweam and scweam until I make myself sick!!

Lol

yes take the Micky x

But yes I do ! And yes I'm Screaming

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"I want my bwexit and if I don't get it wight now I'll scweam and scweam and scweam until I make myself sick!!

Lol

yes take the Micky x

But yes I do ! And yes I'm Screaming

Ha ha

not sure wich side your on it I don't mind

I believe in Debate and fun not nastiness when having one

as by the sound of it you do too

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By *abioMan
over a year ago

Newcastle and Gateshead

"I voted Brexit and I Simple want our Country to be responsible for all our laws !

End of !

and the point being made is that this was a UK decision about UK law by UK judges in a UK court......

isn't that what you wanted????

I'd rather have the process scrutinised by 650 MP's than by a couple of government ministers with no oversight.....

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"I voted Brexit and I Simple want our Country to be responsible for all our laws !

End of !

and the point being made is that this was a UK decision about UK law by UK judges in a UK court......

isn't that what you wanted????

I'd rather have the process scrutinised by 650 MP's than by a couple of government ministers with no oversight....."

Can anyone explain why so many people find this so difficult? Surely, as I've said before, every Brexiter should be cheering in the streets about how brilliant this support for our sovereignty is!

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"I voted Brexit and I Simple want our Country to be responsible for all our laws !

End of !

and the point being made is that this was a UK decision about UK law by UK judges in a UK court......

isn't that what you wanted????

I'd rather have the process scrutinised by 650 MP's than by a couple of government ministers with no oversight.....

Can anyone explain why so many people find this so difficult? Surely, as I've said before, every Brexiter should be cheering in the streets about how brilliant this support for our sovereignty is!"

I would if we had a parliament Democratically voted in but we don't !

I've addressed this on another thread !

A referendum is held if it is demanded we all need a say , if we arnt going to stick with the result what on Earth was the Point in Having One ?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

A referendum is held if you hope to gain some cheap votes for a general election.

It's an indication of public opinion. That's all.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"A referendum is held if you hope to gain some cheap votes for a general election.

It's an indication of public opinion. That's all."

If that was all it was we shouldn't have had one then !

But I suspect if the result had been we stay we would have been told it was a triumph for democracy

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"A referendum is held if you hope to gain some cheap votes for a general election.

It's an indication of public opinion. That's all.

If that was all it was we shouldn't have had one then !

But I suspect if the result had been we stay we would have been told it was a triumph for democracy

But that's the whole point! It is exactly what it was!

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

The government proposed a question, the electorate were asked to choose 'in' or 'out'. The choose was 'out', Parliament should debate the issue but ratify it and move on.

The referendum result hasn't been rejected. Have you read the ruling?

This

The court case was about whether parliament has to ratify it.

In the referendums mentioned above:they were " pre- legislative" that is tobdayvtheyvwere to find out what the majority wanted; then to carry out acts of parliament to make it happen:

The challenge has nothing to do with overturning the referendum result; it's to challenge the government which is trying to subvert parliamentary ( and constitutional) practice)"

Thanks for that, I've got to say that I don't think I am dull, but I certainly need to brush up on the legal elements of all this. Or, just go to the pub?!

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"A referendum is held if you hope to gain some cheap votes for a general election.

It's an indication of public opinion. That's all.

If that was all it was we shouldn't have had one then !

I can only sigh at this

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"I want my bwexit and if I don't get it wight now I'll scweam and scweam and scweam until I make myself sick!!

So is it fun to take the piss out of people with speech impediments?

No I'm not offended, but that is how easy these things can be twisted.

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By *obka3Couple
over a year ago

bournemouth

"I voted Brexit and I Simple want our Country to be responsible for all our laws !

End of !

and the point being made is that this was a UK decision about UK law by UK judges in a UK court......

isn't that what you wanted????

I'd rather have the process scrutinised by 650 MP's than by a couple of government ministers with no oversight....."

I dont have a problem with having a vote to confirm the leave vote and a debate on what mps think is the best way of leaving after all somemight even have some good ideas,BUT if the vote means that government has to say what the details they want to obtain are and limitations get put on what the negotiators can and cant do how the hell are we going to get a good deal.

If you were selling a new car and said you wanted X pounds but then told the potential buyer before he had even looked at the car that your bottom line was Y and oh you will chuck in leather seats,alloys and free insurance do you think they would say oh thats ok we will buy the car but pay extra for the leather and insurance,of course not they will say we want more discount and free servicing,during the deal you haggle until an agreement is made that both are happy with.

IMO re brexit We want free access and total control on immigration in reality a compromise will need to be agreed during the talks just as it would buying the car

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"I want my bwexit and if I don't get it wight now I'll scweam and scweam and scweam until I make myself sick!!

So is it fun to take the piss out of people with speech impediments?

No I'm not offended, but that is how easy these things can be twisted."

I read it as a childish tantrum. It was apt. But I guess if you're looking to take offence it's difficult to focus.

What about £350m a week to the NHS... how could that be twisted?...

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

The 'keeping your cards secret' argument is bollocks.

This is running a country, not poker or a used car sale.

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By *iss_tressWoman
over a year ago

London

We have asked for more control for our Courts and Laws and that is what we got. Delays are causing uncertainty so lets just move forward."

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