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"I voted in. But I accept the democratic decision and look for ways of making the best of it. Constant hand wringing and whinging about the result won't change it. It wasn't a right/wrong vote it was an in/out vote. The majority voted out and starting hundreds of threads on here won't change that result. We are leaving. Good or bad we have to accept that!" Well said  | |||
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"What will it take for you to admit that you were wrong about Brexit? " It all comes down to what each individual was wanting/hoping for by leaving the EU and what they will end up getting before they could even comtemplate wether they think it was "wrong" to vote leave | |||
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"What will it take for you to admit that you were wrong about Brexit? " There is a line between no financial pain and extreme financial difficulty. Every Leave voter apart from the manipulating Elite will have a place somewhere along that line where they will get a WTF moment. If the economic downturn does not come to pass (as Leave voters say it won't) then the relentless march to Brexit will continue. If on the other hand we have great economic upheaval and people start to suffer, then the sentiment to march onwards into more pain will likely be slowed, possibly even halted or reversed. The benefit of being a citizen of a great democracy like ours is that we have the ability to react to circumstances, amend our thinking and even change our minds. As I have said even from before the Brexit result, the economy and the financial health of the nation will be the ultimate decider as to whether we stay or go. | |||
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"Nothing whatsoever could make me even begin to rethink my leave vote. Especially not the negativity I have read on here from bitter twisted "remainers" who were told they were going to win the referendum, then got the shock of their miserable lives. It is going to take time, the govt is dragging its feet on A50, and even after that it takes 2 years to be completely free of the shitfest that is the EU. Until then the real benefits of BREXIT will not be visible. In the meantime I for one will ignore the idiotic scaremongering and the prophets of doom who are so obsessed with spreading it. As for calling me and those with similar views "traitors who sold out our country?" I would suggest that the gob***** who typed that is one of the worst traitors out. Another PC drone without a mind of its own, aimlessly posting the same ridiculous message, and expecting people to change their minds because of it. NOBODY CARES WHAT YOU THINK! I'm going to get on with my own shit now, because I haven't got time to argue with half heads. Tatty bye!" Another good post | |||
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"What will it take for you to admit that you were wrong about Brexit? " Long after the moaning remainers stop whinging. In fact, never, as it was the right thing to do. | |||
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"What will it take for you to admit that you were wrong about Brexit? " if you ever say it is a good idea | |||
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"I voted in. But I accept the democratic decision and look for ways of making the best of it. Constant hand wringing and whinging about the result won't change it. It wasn't a right/wrong vote it was an in/out vote. The majority voted out and starting hundreds of threads on here won't change that result. We are leaving. Good or bad we have to accept that!" It is not about whinging or hand wringing, ti is about admitting to ones self and the rest of us that a significant number of the 52% believed the lies they were told and voted the wrong way. Until those who were lied to acknowledge this and learn from their mistake we are doomed to continue to repeat the same mistake. | |||
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"I voted in. But I accept the democratic decision and look for ways of making the best of it. Constant hand wringing and whinging about the result won't change it. It wasn't a right/wrong vote it was an in/out vote. The majority voted out and starting hundreds of threads on here won't change that result. We are leaving. Good or bad we have to accept that! It is not about whinging or hand wringing, ti is about admitting to ones self and the rest of us that a significant number of the 52% believed the lies they were told and voted the wrong way. Until those who were lied to acknowledge this and learn from their mistake we are doomed to continue to repeat the same mistake." You are making the same mistake there as most remainers. You are assuming that Brexiters are stupid. There were as many outrageous predictions from the remainers. Does that make them stupid, too? I really don't think that a population with an average IQ of 100 is that gullible. | |||
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"About the same time YOU admit you were wrong .....? " How does that make any sense at all? | |||
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"What will it take for you to admit that you were wrong about Brexit? There is a line between no financial pain and extreme financial difficulty. Every Leave voter apart from the manipulating Elite will have a place somewhere along that line where they will get a WTF moment. If the economic downturn does not come to pass (as Leave voters say it won't) then the relentless march to Brexit will continue. If on the other hand we have great economic upheaval and people start to suffer, then the sentiment to march onwards into more pain will likely be slowed, possibly even halted or reversed. The benefit of being a citizen of a great democracy like ours is that we have the ability to react to circumstances, amend our thinking and even change our minds. As I have said even from before the Brexit result, the economy and the financial health of the nation will be the ultimate decider as to whether we stay or go. " That is an interesting one and quite true. However it misses one critical point. What if the economic upheaval is on the other side of the water? If the EU was booming and Britain bombing then it would be fair to say that the Bexiters got it wrong, but that isn't the case. There is much more likelihood of economic disaster in the EU in general and Eurozone in particular than in Britain. I wonder how some of these threads will look at say Easter next year. | |||
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"Nothing whatsoever could make me even begin to rethink my leave vote. Especially not the negativity I have read on here from bitter twisted "remainers" who were told they were going to win the referendum, then got the shock of their miserable lives. It is going to take time, the govt is dragging its feet on A50, and even after that it takes 2 years to be completely free of the shitfest that is the EU. Until then the real benefits of BREXIT will not be visible. In the meantime I for one will ignore the idiotic scaremongering and the prophets of doom who are so obsessed with spreading it. As for calling me and those with similar views "traitors who sold out our country?" I would suggest that the gob***** who typed that is one of the worst traitors out. Another PC drone without a mind of its own, aimlessly posting the same ridiculous message, and expecting people to change their minds because of it. NOBODY CARES WHAT YOU THINK! I'm going to get on with my own shit now, because I haven't got time to argue with half heads. Tatty bye!" Are you capable of taking part in debate without insulting people?, you seem determined to see anyone who voted to stay in as lesser than yourself.... | |||
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"What will it take for you to admit that you were wrong about Brexit? There is a line between no financial pain and extreme financial difficulty. Every Leave voter apart from the manipulating Elite will have a place somewhere along that line where they will get a WTF moment. If the economic downturn does not come to pass (as Leave voters say it won't) then the relentless march to Brexit will continue. If on the other hand we have great economic upheaval and people start to suffer, then the sentiment to march onwards into more pain will likely be slowed, possibly even halted or reversed. The benefit of being a citizen of a great democracy like ours is that we have the ability to react to circumstances, amend our thinking and even change our minds. As I have said even from before the Brexit result, the economy and the financial health of the nation will be the ultimate decider as to whether we stay or go. That is an interesting one and quite true. However it misses one critical point. What if the economic upheaval is on the other side of the water? If the EU was booming and Britain bombing then it would be fair to say that the Bexiters got it wrong, but that isn't the case. There is much more likelihood of economic disaster in the EU in general and Eurozone in particular than in Britain. I wonder how some of these threads will look at say Easter next year." Can you answer these two questions. 1) Will economic failure in the Eurozone be good news, or bad news for the UK? 2) Will Brexit make economic failure in the Eurozone more, or less likely to happen? | |||
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"People need to come to terms with the truth about the referendum, and that is that for many millions, on either side, it was a tick in the box for what would impact on them personally the least..... I've said it before on here, we personally voted to remain because we feared a leave vote would impact upon us heavily as importers....and for us that has proven to be true up to and on this very day. That doesn't make us 'remoaners' ( a very childish term) or whiners, it makes us realists for our own personal position. We personally import hundreds of thousands of pounds of stock each year, all traded in US$, so naturally we voted the way we did. At this point NONE OF US on here know the financial implications long term, one way or the other, it's all a best guess situation on both sides. " | |||
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"People need to come to terms with the truth about the referendum, and that is that for many millions, on either side, it was a tick in the box for what would impact on them personally the least..... I've said it before on here, we personally voted to remain because we feared a leave vote would impact upon us heavily as importers....and for us that has proven to be true up to and on this very day. That doesn't make us 'remoaners' ( a very childish term) or whiners, it makes us realists for our own personal position. We personally import hundreds of thousands of pounds of stock each year, all traded in US$, so naturally we voted the way we did. At this point NONE OF US on here know the financial implications long term, one way or the other, it's all a best guess situation on both sides. " stop spreading common sence and reason it doesent fit the polarised agendas on both sides you will confuse them  | |||
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"What will it take for you to admit that you were wrong about Brexit? There is a line between no financial pain and extreme financial difficulty. Every Leave voter apart from the manipulating Elite will have a place somewhere along that line where they will get a WTF moment. If the economic downturn does not come to pass (as Leave voters say it won't) then the relentless march to Brexit will continue. If on the other hand we have great economic upheaval and people start to suffer, then the sentiment to march onwards into more pain will likely be slowed, possibly even halted or reversed. The benefit of being a citizen of a great democracy like ours is that we have the ability to react to circumstances, amend our thinking and even change our minds. As I have said even from before the Brexit result, the economy and the financial health of the nation will be the ultimate decider as to whether we stay or go. That is an interesting one and quite true. However it misses one critical point. What if the economic upheaval is on the other side of the water? If the EU was booming and Britain bombing then it would be fair to say that the Bexiters got it wrong, but that isn't the case. There is much more likelihood of economic disaster in the EU in general and Eurozone in particular than in Britain. I wonder how some of these threads will look at say Easter next year. Can you answer these two questions. 1) Will economic failure in the Eurozone be good news, or bad news for the UK? 2) Will Brexit make economic failure in the Eurozone more, or less likely to happen? " Q1. It will be bad news for everyone, but Britain in or out wont make a jot of difference. Q2. If the Italian banks fail and drag down the Germans and French with them, as is possible, some think even likely. Then as above, Brexit wont make a jot of difference. | |||
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"You are making the same mistake there as most remainers. You are assuming that Brexiters are stupid. There were as many outrageous predictions from the remainers. Does that make them stupid, too? I really don't think that a population with an average IQ of 100 is that gullible." Right... The £ at a 175 year low against other currencies and the triggering of article 50 has only been hinted at... Wonder if the £ dropping though the cellar when article 50 is eventually triggered will force you to admit the truth or will you and the rest of the Little Briton mob tell us that having our life savings destroyed is good news? Wake up! Stop believing your own propaganda and start seeing what is happening in front of you! | |||
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"What will it take for you to admit that you were wrong about Brexit? There is a line between no financial pain and extreme financial difficulty. Every Leave voter apart from the manipulating Elite will have a place somewhere along that line where they will get a WTF moment. If the economic downturn does not come to pass (as Leave voters say it won't) then the relentless march to Brexit will continue. If on the other hand we have great economic upheaval and people start to suffer, then the sentiment to march onwards into more pain will likely be slowed, possibly even halted or reversed. The benefit of being a citizen of a great democracy like ours is that we have the ability to react to circumstances, amend our thinking and even change our minds. As I have said even from before the Brexit result, the economy and the financial health of the nation will be the ultimate decider as to whether we stay or go. That is an interesting one and quite true. However it misses one critical point. What if the economic upheaval is on the other side of the water? If the EU was booming and Britain bombing then it would be fair to say that the Bexiters got it wrong, but that isn't the case. There is much more likelihood of economic disaster in the EU in general and Eurozone in particular than in Britain. I wonder how some of these threads will look at say Easter next year." Nothing missed at all ..." we have the ability to react to circumstances" We can only deal with the situation that is in front of us now but of course that situation can change in any number of different ways - good and bad. | |||
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"People need to come to terms with the truth about the referendum, and that is that for many millions, on either side, it was a tick in the box for what would impact on them personally the least..... I've said it before on here, we personally voted to remain because we feared a leave vote would impact upon us heavily as importers....and for us that has proven to be true up to and on this very day. That doesn't make us 'remoaners' ( a very childish term) or whiners, it makes us realists for our own personal position. We personally import hundreds of thousands of pounds of stock each year, all traded in US$, so naturally we voted the way we did. At this point NONE OF US on here know the financial implications long term, one way or the other, it's all a best guess situation on both sides. " Yes you are correct as I have said a few times before in different threads "we will just have to wait and see" but some on here think they know what is best for everyone and they don't. | |||
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"You are making the same mistake there as most remainers. You are assuming that Brexiters are stupid. There were as many outrageous predictions from the remainers. Does that make them stupid, too? I really don't think that a population with an average IQ of 100 is that gullible. Right... The £ at a 175 year low against other currencies and the triggering of article 50 has only been hinted at... Wonder if the £ dropping though the cellar when article 50 is eventually triggered will force you to admit the truth or will you and the rest of the Little Briton mob tell us that having our life savings destroyed is good news? Wake up! Stop believing your own propaganda and start seeing what is happening in front of you!" My propoganda? What would that be then? What would yours be? | |||
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"What will it take for you to admit that you were wrong about Brexit? There is a line between no financial pain and extreme financial difficulty. Every Leave voter apart from the manipulating Elite will have a place somewhere along that line where they will get a WTF moment. If the economic downturn does not come to pass (as Leave voters say it won't) then the relentless march to Brexit will continue. If on the other hand we have great economic upheaval and people start to suffer, then the sentiment to march onwards into more pain will likely be slowed, possibly even halted or reversed. The benefit of being a citizen of a great democracy like ours is that we have the ability to react to circumstances, amend our thinking and even change our minds. As I have said even from before the Brexit result, the economy and the financial health of the nation will be the ultimate decider as to whether we stay or go. That is an interesting one and quite true. However it misses one critical point. What if the economic upheaval is on the other side of the water? If the EU was booming and Britain bombing then it would be fair to say that the Bexiters got it wrong, but that isn't the case. There is much more likelihood of economic disaster in the EU in general and Eurozone in particular than in Britain. I wonder how some of these threads will look at say Easter next year. Nothing missed at all ..." we have the ability to react to circumstances" We can only deal with the situation that is in front of us now but of course that situation can change in any number of different ways - good and bad." So if the situation changes surely being independent would make it much easier to react than being shackled to the cause of it. | |||
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"What will it take for you to admit that you were wrong about Brexit? There is a line between no financial pain and extreme financial difficulty. Every Leave voter apart from the manipulating Elite will have a place somewhere along that line where they will get a WTF moment. If the economic downturn does not come to pass (as Leave voters say it won't) then the relentless march to Brexit will continue. If on the other hand we have great economic upheaval and people start to suffer, then the sentiment to march onwards into more pain will likely be slowed, possibly even halted or reversed. The benefit of being a citizen of a great democracy like ours is that we have the ability to react to circumstances, amend our thinking and even change our minds. As I have said even from before the Brexit result, the economy and the financial health of the nation will be the ultimate decider as to whether we stay or go. That is an interesting one and quite true. However it misses one critical point. What if the economic upheaval is on the other side of the water? If the EU was booming and Britain bombing then it would be fair to say that the Bexiters got it wrong, but that isn't the case. There is much more likelihood of economic disaster in the EU in general and Eurozone in particular than in Britain. I wonder how some of these threads will look at say Easter next year. Nothing missed at all ..." we have the ability to react to circumstances" We can only deal with the situation that is in front of us now but of course that situation can change in any number of different ways - good and bad. So if the situation changes surely being independent would make it much easier to react than being shackled to the cause of it." I like the way you think well done | |||
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" The majority voted out and starting hundreds of threads on here won't change that result. We are leaving. Good or bad we have to accept that!" No we don't. We were in, and BREXITERs campaigned to get out; they didn't accept the status quo; That was legitimate; So its legitimate to now campaign to remain/ rejoin. And meanwhile hold the BREXITERs' feet to the fire over their plans ( or lack of) | |||
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"I voted in. But I accept the democratic decision and look for ways of making the best of it. Constant hand wringing and whinging about the result won't change it. It wasn't a right/wrong vote it was an in/out vote. The majority voted out and starting hundreds of threads on here won't change that result. We are leaving. Good or bad we have to accept that!"
What a great post, finally a Remainer who gets it. The people have spoken and the verdict was for Leave. The sooner everyone accepts it and comes to terms with it the better. | |||
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" The majority voted out and starting hundreds of threads on here won't change that result. We are leaving. Good or bad we have to accept that! No we don't. We were in, and BREXITERs campaigned to get out; they didn't accept the status quo; That was legitimate; So its legitimate to now campaign to remain/ rejoin. And meanwhile hold the BREXITERs' feet to the fire over their plans ( or lack of) " What were the Remainers plans had you secured a vote to remain? | |||
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"30 posts in and no one has answered the question yet." It is a fundamentally stupid question. It has also been answered for you several times on the thread. The answer is there was no right or wrong choice. People did their own research and voted according to their own set of circumstances. More people decided to vote leave. End of. | |||
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"30 posts in and no one has answered the question yet." Considering we haven't actually left yet, it's way too early to establish right or wrong. It doesn't matter anyway. We lost the vote and that is that. Try and look for the positives and make it work. | |||
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"30 posts in and no one has answered the question yet." OK. I'll bite. Bankrupt Britain and booming EU. However don't expect me to be saying it any time soon. So what will it take for the remainers to admit they were wrong about Brexit? | |||
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"30 posts in and no one has answered the question yet. It is a fundamentally stupid question. It has also been answered for you several times on the thread. The answer is there was no right or wrong choice. People did their own research and voted according to their own set of circumstances. More people decided to vote leave. End of. " OP, people have challenged the premise behind your question. You don't seem to accept that as valid. | |||
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"30 posts in and no one has answered the question yet." I was wrong...I voted remain and lost the referendum. There were strong arguments not to remain because of the nature of the EU but I felt we could reform it from the inside. The one saving grace of Brexit for me is in order to survive it Austerity will be dropped in favour of Keynesian expansion. | |||
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"30 posts in and no one has answered the question yet. Considering we haven't actually left yet, it's way too early to establish right or wrong. It doesn't matter anyway. We lost the vote and that is that. Try and look for the positives and make it work. " I know that we haven't left let, thats the whole point of asking the question now. If we waiting until after something had happened then people can say "well I wanted that to happen anyway", exactly how people are saying that they always wanted the £ to hit a 168 year low. | |||
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"30 posts in and no one has answered the question yet. OK. I'll bite. Bankrupt Britain and booming EU. However don't expect me to be saying it any time soon. So what will it take for the remainers to admit they were wrong about Brexit?" I had to laugh at the idea of a booming EU.  | |||
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"30 posts in and no one has answered the question yet. Considering we haven't actually left yet, it's way too early to establish right or wrong. It doesn't matter anyway. We lost the vote and that is that. Try and look for the positives and make it work. I know that we haven't left let, thats the whole point of asking the question now. If we waiting until after something had happened then people can say "well I wanted that to happen anyway", exactly how people are saying that they always wanted the £ to hit a 168 year low. " I don't hear many people saying that they wanted a reduction in the value of the pound (except for exporters). Nor do I hear you defending your faith in economic experts. | |||
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"30 posts in and no one has answered the question yet. OK. I'll bite. Bankrupt Britain and booming EU. However don't expect me to be saying it any time soon. So what will it take for the remainers to admit they were wrong about Brexit? I had to laugh at the idea of a booming EU. "I suppose that could depend on your definition of booming. Shhhh Don't mention Mad Vlad just yet.  | |||
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"30 posts in and no one has answered the question yet. Considering we haven't actually left yet, it's way too early to establish right or wrong. It doesn't matter anyway. We lost the vote and that is that. Try and look for the positives and make it work. I know that we haven't left let, thats the whole point of asking the question now. If we waiting until after something had happened then people can say "well I wanted that to happen anyway", exactly how people are saying that they always wanted the £ to hit a 168 year low. I don't hear many people saying that they wanted a reduction in the value of the pound (except for exporters). Nor do I hear you defending your faith in economic experts." There is a whole thread called "drop in £ a welcome change" all about it. | |||
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" The majority voted out and starting hundreds of threads on here won't change that result. We are leaving. Good or bad we have to accept that! No we don't. We were in, and BREXITERs campaigned to get out; they didn't accept the status quo; That was legitimate; So its legitimate to now campaign to remain/ rejoin. And meanwhile hold the BREXITERs' feet to the fire over their plans ( or lack of) What were the Remainers plans had you secured a vote to remain?" There was no need for a plan; everything was a status quo and working pretty well. Apart from being better at integrating with the rest of the EU, and the UK actually becoming grown up and playing its part properly. | |||
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"............... So if the situation changes surely being independent would make it much easier to react than being shackled to the cause of it." If something goes wrong with the EU, we are fucked in or out and, in or out, it would be politically and economically stupid not to intervene to help out. If something goes wrong in the US we are fucked. If WW3 erupts we are fucked. Departing the European Union when we had the best possible relationship with it was a reaction to meaningless slogans and jingoistic nonsense. As I stated before, everyone will have their own WTF moment if we end up travelling along the economic decline road. The Leavers of course point out that there will not be any economic decline and therefore no pain, so you can all look forwards to a future of extraordinary wealth in a UK outside of the EU. These are Leavers by the way who can't even accept that inflation follows a currency devaluation so I am sure they know exactly what is around the cornerb for us all. | |||
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" The majority voted out and starting hundreds of threads on here won't change that result. We are leaving. Good or bad we have to accept that! No we don't. We were in, and BREXITERs campaigned to get out; they didn't accept the status quo; That was legitimate; So its legitimate to now campaign to remain/ rejoin. And meanwhile hold the BREXITERs' feet to the fire over their plans ( or lack of) What were the Remainers plans had you secured a vote to remain? There was no need for a plan; everything was a status quo and working pretty well. Apart from being better at integrating with the rest of the EU, and the UK actually becoming grown up and playing its part properly." So you were quite happy being part of an organisation which was unable to get it's accounts passed without the proviso "not free from material error?" An organisation that dictated how we could spend our money? An organisation dedicated to further union? Wow. Then you clearly did not think any reform was required. | |||
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" The majority voted out and starting hundreds of threads on here won't change that result. We are leaving. Good or bad we have to accept that! No we don't. We were in, and BREXITERs campaigned to get out; they didn't accept the status quo; That was legitimate; So its legitimate to now campaign to remain/ rejoin. And meanwhile hold the BREXITERs' feet to the fire over their plans ( or lack of) What were the Remainers plans had you secured a vote to remain? There was no need for a plan; everything was a status quo and working pretty well. Apart from being better at integrating with the rest of the EU, and the UK actually becoming grown up and playing its part properly. So you were quite happy being part of an organisation which was unable to get it's accounts passed without the proviso "not free from material error?" An organisation that dictated how we could spend our money? An organisation dedicated to further union? Wow. Then you clearly did not think any reform was required. " The British government dictated how it spent it's money; not the EU; No of course there was No "reform" required ; save for continuing advancement and improvement. And better integration ( which despite the lies of the Brexiters does not include making a single European federation; and never did.) | |||
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" The majority voted out and starting hundreds of threads on here won't change that result. We are leaving. Good or bad we have to accept that! No we don't. We were in, and BREXITERs campaigned to get out; they didn't accept the status quo; That was legitimate; So its legitimate to now campaign to remain/ rejoin. And meanwhile hold the BREXITERs' feet to the fire over their plans ( or lack of) What were the Remainers plans had you secured a vote to remain? There was no need for a plan; everything was a status quo and working pretty well. Apart from being better at integrating with the rest of the EU, and the UK actually becoming grown up and playing its part properly. So you were quite happy being part of an organisation which was unable to get it's accounts passed without the proviso "not free from material error?" An organisation that dictated how we could spend our money? An organisation dedicated to further union? Wow. Then you clearly did not think any reform was required. The British government dictated how it spent it's money; not the EU; No of course there was No "reform" required ; save for continuing advancement and improvement. And better integration ( which despite the lies of the Brexiters does not include making a single European federation; and never did.)" We have some say in how our contributions are spent but - The EU budget finances activities ranging from developing rural areas and conserving the environment to protecting external borders and promoting human rights. The Commission, the Council and Parliament all have a say in determining the size of the budget and how it is allocated. But it is the Commission that is responsible for spending. The EU countries and the Commission share responsibility for about 80% of the budget. And I see you choose to ignore the issue about it's accounts. | |||
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" The majority voted out and starting hundreds of threads on here won't change that result. We are leaving. Good or bad we have to accept that! No we don't. We were in, and BREXITERs campaigned to get out; they didn't accept the status quo; That was legitimate; So its legitimate to now campaign to remain/ rejoin. And meanwhile hold the BREXITERs' feet to the fire over their plans ( or lack of) What were the Remainers plans had you secured a vote to remain? There was no need for a plan; everything was a status quo and working pretty well. Apart from being better at integrating with the rest of the EU, and the UK actually becoming grown up and playing its part properly. So you were quite happy being part of an organisation which was unable to get it's accounts passed without the proviso "not free from material error?" An organisation that dictated how we could spend our money? An organisation dedicated to further union? Wow. Then you clearly did not think any reform was required. The British government dictated how it spent it's money; not the EU; No of course there was No "reform" required ; save for continuing advancement and improvement. And better integration ( which despite the lies of the Brexiters does not include making a single European federation; and never did.) We have some say in how our contributions are spent but - The EU budget finances activities ranging from developing rural areas and conserving the environment to protecting external borders and promoting human rights. The Commission, the Council and Parliament all have a say in determining the size of the budget and how it is allocated. But it is the Commission that is responsible for spending. The EU countries and the Commission share responsibility for about 80% of the budget. And I see you choose to ignore the issue about it's accounts." This was a post by another forum contributor the other day: "Let's have a look at what else hasn't been signed off for God knows how long: The U.K. Whole of Government Accounts (qualified every year since their inception) The DWP accounts (qualified every year since 1988/89) The Ministry of Defence accounts (qualified for 7 years in a row and counting) Department for Education (adverse opinion issued by the Auditor General in 2016) It seems strange to me that someone who uses accounts not being signed off by their auditors as a sign of corruption would vote to give more power to institutions which also can't get their accounts signed off by their auditors..." | |||
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" So you were quite happy being part of an organisation which was unable to get it's accounts passed without the proviso "not free from material error?" An organisation that dictated how we could spend our money? An organisation dedicated to further union? Wow. Then you clearly did not think any reform was required. " Why do you keep going on about the EU accounts? You have been directed previously to factual websites that explicitly prove that the accounts have been signed off. You refer to the fact that they were signed off as being not free from material error but do you actually know what that means? It does not mean fraud it means that the EU cannot account for some funds because 80% of those funds were sent to other counties and in isolated cases, the use has not delivered the return as originally accounted for. For example: The Canolfan Cywain rural heritage centre opened in Gwynedd, Wales in 2008 after it received £900,000 from the EU structural development fund. It ran into financial difficulties in September 2011 and closed a year later. The returns that were anticipated in order to balance the issuing of those funds never materialised and therefore theb €900,000 became a material error. As a result of this and a couple of other instances, the House of Commons Public Accounts Committee called on the UK government to improve how it spends EU funds. The committee found that UK departments contribute "additional complexity" to the implementation of EU programmes, especially agricultural and rural development ones, which also drives up errors. There is no suggestion whatsoever that all these errors are reflective of some kind of fraud. Fraud does exist and the EU auditors estimate that it runs at 0.2% of the budget. As for greater union, you should be aware that the UK had opted out of ever closer union. | |||
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"About the same time YOU admit you were wrong .....? How does that make any sense at all? " Its irony ....you ask the most stupid question , arrogantly sitting in pious judgement of anybody who doesnt agree with YOU , and ask a loaded question dripping in venom ..... Neither "side" can claim ANY knowledge of the next 2 years + , it will be what it will be , i voted out and understand it wasnt perfect, i made a valued judgement and stand by it . We should ALL now get behind the decision makers and pull TOGETHER , mud chucking and insulting people by implying they got it "wrong" is simply strengthening the resolve of the majority , its a shock but its democracy ...... | |||
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" The majority voted out and starting hundreds of threads on here won't change that result. We are leaving. Good or bad we have to accept that! No we don't. We were in, and BREXITERs campaigned to get out; they didn't accept the status quo; That was legitimate; So its legitimate to now campaign to remain/ rejoin. And meanwhile hold the BREXITERs' feet to the fire over their plans ( or lack of) What were the Remainers plans had you secured a vote to remain? There was no need for a plan; everything was a status quo and working pretty well. Apart from being better at integrating with the rest of the EU, and the UK actually becoming grown up and playing its part properly. So you were quite happy being part of an organisation which was unable to get it's accounts passed without the proviso "not free from material error?" An organisation that dictated how we could spend our money? An organisation dedicated to further union? Wow. Then you clearly did not think any reform was required. The British government dictated how it spent it's money; not the EU; No of course there was No "reform" required ; save for continuing advancement and improvement. And better integration ( which despite the lies of the Brexiters does not include making a single European federation; and never did.) We have some say in how our contributions are spent but - The EU budget finances activities ranging from developing rural areas and conserving the environment to protecting external borders and promoting human rights. The Commission, the Council and Parliament all have a say in determining the size of the budget and how it is allocated. But it is the Commission that is responsible for spending. The EU countries and the Commission share responsibility for about 80% of the budget. And I see you choose to ignore the issue about it's accounts." The accounts are largely immaterial; they balance, broadly; and and if you care to look across many "governmental" accounts, they can't be " signed off". So it's not unique. | |||
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"About the same time YOU admit you were wrong .....? How does that make any sense at all? Its irony ....you ask the most stupid question , arrogantly sitting in pious judgement of anybody who doesnt agree with YOU , and ask a loaded question dripping in venom ..... Neither "side" can claim ANY knowledge of the next 2 years + , it will be what it will be , i voted out and understand it wasnt perfect, i made a valued judgement and stand by it . We should ALL now get behind the decision makers and pull TOGETHER , mud chucking and insulting people by implying they got it "wrong" is simply strengthening the resolve of the majority , its a shock but its democracy ......" And when you voted " out" what did you actually vote for? And it's also " democracy" to disagree. And the "decision makers " need to have their feet held to the fire, and be open with the electorate ( or at least with the parliament) what they are going to do; ( which they are trying hard not to do ( democracy?) | |||
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"About the same time YOU admit you were wrong .....? How does that make any sense at all? Its irony ....you ask the most stupid question , arrogantly sitting in pious judgement of anybody who doesnt agree with YOU , and ask a loaded question dripping in venom ..... Neither "side" can claim ANY knowledge of the next 2 years + , it will be what it will be , i voted out and understand it wasnt perfect, i made a valued judgement and stand by it . We should ALL now get behind the decision makers and pull TOGETHER , mud chucking and insulting people by implying they got it "wrong" is simply strengthening the resolve of the majority , its a shock but its democracy ...... And when you voted " out" what did you actually vote for? And it's also " democracy" to disagree. And the "decision makers " need to have their feet held to the fire, and be open with the electorate ( or at least with the parliament) what they are going to do; ( which they are trying hard not to do ( democracy?)" there is only one thing to do and only one way of doing it, what is there to debate? | |||
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" The majority voted out and starting hundreds of threads on here won't change that result. We are leaving. Good or bad we have to accept that! No we don't. We were in, and BREXITERs campaigned to get out; they didn't accept the status quo; That was legitimate; So its legitimate to now campaign to remain/ rejoin. And meanwhile hold the BREXITERs' feet to the fire over their plans ( or lack of) What were the Remainers plans had you secured a vote to remain? There was no need for a plan; everything was a status quo and working pretty well. Apart from being better at integrating with the rest of the EU, and the UK actually becoming grown up and playing its part properly." There was no Status Quo option on the ballot paper. For remain the EU would keep increasing its demands for more money, keep adding more countries on the side, pushing for ever closer union and more and more integration (like it always does). The EU keeps changing for the worse but the morons in Brussels just don't get it Their arrogance and pompous self importance will be their downfall, the people of Europe (not just in Britain) are rejecting the EU and it's nonsensical policies in ever increasing numbers with each passing election. Just a matter of time before another country leaves and just a matter of time before a number of countries leave and it's just a matter of time before the EU will be consigned to the dustbin of history where it belongs. | |||
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"About the same time YOU admit you were wrong .....? How does that make any sense at all? Its irony ....you ask the most stupid question , arrogantly sitting in pious judgement of anybody who doesnt agree with YOU , and ask a loaded question dripping in venom ..... Neither "side" can claim ANY knowledge of the next 2 years + , it will be what it will be , i voted out and understand it wasnt perfect, i made a valued judgement and stand by it . We should ALL now get behind the decision makers and pull TOGETHER , mud chucking and insulting people by implying they got it "wrong" is simply strengthening the resolve of the majority , its a shock but its democracy ...... And when you voted " out" what did you actually vote for? And it's also " democracy" to disagree. And the "decision makers " need to have their feet held to the fire, and be open with the electorate ( or at least with the parliament) what they are going to do; ( which they are trying hard not to do ( democracy?)" As was explained to you the other day on another thread it would be foolish to reveal your negotiating hand before negotiations have begun. If you were playing a football match would you give the opposition manager your team sheet and your game tactics a week before the game is due to start? If you were fighting a battle would you give the opposition general all of your battle plans in advance? It would be foolish to do so and is a recipe for disaster. | |||
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"About the same time YOU admit you were wrong .....? How does that make any sense at all? Its irony ....you ask the most stupid question , arrogantly sitting in pious judgement of anybody who doesnt agree with YOU , and ask a loaded question dripping in venom ..... Neither "side" can claim ANY knowledge of the next 2 years + , it will be what it will be , i voted out and understand it wasnt perfect, i made a valued judgement and stand by it . We should ALL now get behind the decision makers and pull TOGETHER , mud chucking and insulting people by implying they got it "wrong" is simply strengthening the resolve of the majority , its a shock but its democracy ...... And when you voted " out" what did you actually vote for? And it's also " democracy" to disagree. And the "decision makers " need to have their feet held to the fire, and be open with the electorate ( or at least with the parliament) what they are going to do; ( which they are trying hard not to do ( democracy?) As was explained to you the other day on another thread it would be foolish to reveal your negotiating hand before negotiations have begun. If you were playing a football match would you give the opposition manager your team sheet and your game tactics a week before the game is due to start? If you were fighting a battle would you give the opposition general all of your battle plans in advance? It would be foolish to do so and is a recipe for disaster. " thats what they want | |||
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" The majority voted out and starting hundreds of threads on here won't change that result. We are leaving. Good or bad we have to accept that! No we don't. We were in, and BREXITERs campaigned to get out; they didn't accept the status quo; That was legitimate; So its legitimate to now campaign to remain/ rejoin. And meanwhile hold the BREXITERs' feet to the fire over their plans ( or lack of) What were the Remainers plans had you secured a vote to remain? There was no need for a plan; everything was a status quo and working pretty well. Apart from being better at integrating with the rest of the EU, and the UK actually becoming grown up and playing its part properly. There was no Status Quo option on the ballot paper. For remain the EU would keep increasing its demands for more money, keep adding more countries on the side, pushing for ever closer union and more and more integration (like it always does). The EU keeps changing for the worse but the morons in Brussels just don't get it Their arrogance and pompous self importance will be their downfall, the people of Europe (not just in Britain) are rejecting the EU and it's nonsensical policies in ever increasing numbers with each passing election. Just a matter of time before another country leaves and just a matter of time before a number of countries leave and it's just a matter of time before the EU will be consigned to the dustbin of history where it belongs. " The positive thing is that the EU is stronger and better without the UK; it's just a pity, (from a European view) that the UK ( which was once a respected country) never engaged at all . And now it's going to retreat into its little nationalist shell; Never mind. The excellent thing about BREXIT is that the looney right wing nationalists in Europe are melting away like snowballs in hell. | |||
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"About the same time YOU admit you were wrong .....? How does that make any sense at all? Its irony ....you ask the most stupid question , arrogantly sitting in pious judgement of anybody who doesnt agree with YOU , and ask a loaded question dripping in venom ..... Neither "side" can claim ANY knowledge of the next 2 years + , it will be what it will be , i voted out and understand it wasnt perfect, i made a valued judgement and stand by it . We should ALL now get behind the decision makers and pull TOGETHER , mud chucking and insulting people by implying they got it "wrong" is simply strengthening the resolve of the majority , its a shock but its democracy ...... And when you voted " out" what did you actually vote for? And it's also " democracy" to disagree. And the "decision makers " need to have their feet held to the fire, and be open with the electorate ( or at least with the parliament) what they are going to do; ( which they are trying hard not to do ( democracy?) As was explained to you the other day on another thread it would be foolish to reveal your negotiating hand before negotiations have begun. If you were playing a football match would you give the opposition manager your team sheet and your game tactics a week before the game is due to start? If you were fighting a battle would you give the opposition general all of your battle plans in advance? It would be foolish to do so and is a recipe for disaster. thats what they want " Exactly that's why fanatical swivel eyed Remainers like Nick Clegg and Ed Miliband are pushing for it in parliament. They want to see Brexit fail. Ed Miliband should take note a majority of his own constituents who elected him also voted Leave. | |||
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" The majority voted out and starting hundreds of threads on here won't change that result. We are leaving. Good or bad we have to accept that! No we don't. We were in, and BREXITERs campaigned to get out; they didn't accept the status quo; That was legitimate; So its legitimate to now campaign to remain/ rejoin. And meanwhile hold the BREXITERs' feet to the fire over their plans ( or lack of) What were the Remainers plans had you secured a vote to remain? There was no need for a plan; everything was a status quo and working pretty well. Apart from being better at integrating with the rest of the EU, and the UK actually becoming grown up and playing its part properly. There was no Status Quo option on the ballot paper. For remain the EU would keep increasing its demands for more money, keep adding more countries on the side, pushing for ever closer union and more and more integration (like it always does). The EU keeps changing for the worse but the morons in Brussels just don't get it Their arrogance and pompous self importance will be their downfall, the people of Europe (not just in Britain) are rejecting the EU and it's nonsensical policies in ever increasing numbers with each passing election. Just a matter of time before another country leaves and just a matter of time before a number of countries leave and it's just a matter of time before the EU will be consigned to the dustbin of history where it belongs. The positive thing is that the EU is stronger and better without the UK; it's just a pity, (from a European view) that the UK ( which was once a respected country) never engaged at all . And now it's going to retreat into its little nationalist shell; Never mind. The excellent thing about BREXIT is that the looney right wing nationalists in Europe are melting away like snowballs in hell." Doesn't look like that from where I'm standing, AFD in Germany are increasing their vote share with each passing election, Front National in France are getting stronger, anti EU parties are gaining more support right across Europe with each passing election. You really should open your eyes to it instead of putting the EU blinkers on. | |||
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"About the same time YOU admit you were wrong .....? How does that make any sense at all? Its irony ....you ask the most stupid question , arrogantly sitting in pious judgement of anybody who doesnt agree with YOU , and ask a loaded question dripping in venom ..... Neither "side" can claim ANY knowledge of the next 2 years + , it will be what it will be , i voted out and understand it wasnt perfect, i made a valued judgement and stand by it . We should ALL now get behind the decision makers and pull TOGETHER , mud chucking and insulting people by implying they got it "wrong" is simply strengthening the resolve of the majority , its a shock but its democracy ...... And when you voted " out" what did you actually vote for? And it's also " democracy" to disagree. And the "decision makers " need to have their feet held to the fire, and be open with the electorate ( or at least with the parliament) what they are going to do; ( which they are trying hard not to do ( democracy?) As was explained to you the other day on another thread it would be foolish to reveal your negotiating hand before negotiations have begun. If you were playing a football match would you give the opposition manager your team sheet and your game tactics a week before the game is due to start? If you were fighting a battle would you give the opposition general all of your battle plans in advance? It would be foolish to do so and is a recipe for disaster. " Utter. Rubbish ; this isn't military tactics, or a business boardroom takeover; it's an international negotiation; there are no hidden factors; it's a straightforward negotiation to find a compromise; when all factors are already known and in the open ; there are no secrets; The government wants to bypass the democratic process because; 1.it has not a clue what it wants 2. It wants to bypass parliament and not be accountable ( the very reason they BREXITERs claimed ( falsely) was the problem with the EU, - which is accountable to its members and people on many more levels than the UK government is. | |||
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" The majority voted out and starting hundreds of threads on here won't change that result. We are leaving. Good or bad we have to accept that! No we don't. We were in, and BREXITERs campaigned to get out; they didn't accept the status quo; That was legitimate; So its legitimate to now campaign to remain/ rejoin. And meanwhile hold the BREXITERs' feet to the fire over their plans ( or lack of) What were the Remainers plans had you secured a vote to remain? There was no need for a plan; everything was a status quo and working pretty well. Apart from being better at integrating with the rest of the EU, and the UK actually becoming grown up and playing its part properly. There was no Status Quo option on the ballot paper. For remain the EU would keep increasing its demands for more money, keep adding more countries on the side, pushing for ever closer union and more and more integration (like it always does). The EU keeps changing for the worse but the morons in Brussels just don't get it Their arrogance and pompous self importance will be their downfall, the people of Europe (not just in Britain) are rejecting the EU and it's nonsensical policies in ever increasing numbers with each passing election. Just a matter of time before another country leaves and just a matter of time before a number of countries leave and it's just a matter of time before the EU will be consigned to the dustbin of history where it belongs. The positive thing is that the EU is stronger and better without the UK; it's just a pity, (from a European view) that the UK ( which was once a respected country) never engaged at all . And now it's going to retreat into its little nationalist shell; Never mind. The excellent thing about BREXIT is that the looney right wing nationalists in Europe are melting away like snowballs in hell. Doesn't look like that from where I'm standing, AFD in Germany are increasing their vote share with each passing election, Front National in France are getting stronger, anti EU parties are gaining more support right across Europe with each passing election. You really should open your eyes to it instead of putting the EU blinkers on. " AU contraire; if you read the continental press; and listened to what is going on ( not the daily Mail or the Telegraph misinterpretations) you would know what is actually happening. | |||
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" The majority voted out and starting hundreds of threads on here won't change that result. We are leaving. Good or bad we have to accept that! No we don't. We were in, and BREXITERs campaigned to get out; they didn't accept the status quo; That was legitimate; So its legitimate to now campaign to remain/ rejoin. And meanwhile hold the BREXITERs' feet to the fire over their plans ( or lack of) What were the Remainers plans had you secured a vote to remain? There was no need for a plan; everything was a status quo and working pretty well. Apart from being better at integrating with the rest of the EU, and the UK actually becoming grown up and playing its part properly. There was no Status Quo option on the ballot paper. For remain the EU would keep increasing its demands for more money, keep adding more countries on the side, pushing for ever closer union and more and more integration (like it always does). The EU keeps changing for the worse but the morons in Brussels just don't get it Their arrogance and pompous self importance will be their downfall, the people of Europe (not just in Britain) are rejecting the EU and it's nonsensical policies in ever increasing numbers with each passing election. Just a matter of time before another country leaves and just a matter of time before a number of countries leave and it's just a matter of time before the EU will be consigned to the dustbin of history where it belongs. The positive thing is that the EU is stronger and better without the UK; it's just a pity, (from a European view) that the UK ( which was once a respected country) never engaged at all . And now it's going to retreat into its little nationalist shell; Never mind. The excellent thing about BREXIT is that the looney right wing nationalists in Europe are melting away like snowballs in hell." Except for Marine Le Penn eh  who is tipped to win most votes in the Presidential elections. And maybe you should try and convince the countries who are not so sure about continuing the trade deals they've been negotiating with the EU now that the UK is no longer a part of it | |||
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"What will it take for you to admit that you were wrong about Brexit? " I voted to quit
As to what it would take ? I think the honest answer is time !
I think we have done the right thing but ?
Time will tell . | |||
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" The majority voted out and starting hundreds of threads on here won't change that result. We are leaving. Good or bad we have to accept that! No we don't. We were in, and BREXITERs campaigned to get out; they didn't accept the status quo; That was legitimate; So its legitimate to now campaign to remain/ rejoin. And meanwhile hold the BREXITERs' feet to the fire over their plans ( or lack of) What were the Remainers plans had you secured a vote to remain? There was no need for a plan; everything was a status quo and working pretty well. Apart from being better at integrating with the rest of the EU, and the UK actually becoming grown up and playing its part properly. There was no Status Quo option on the ballot paper. For remain the EU would keep increasing its demands for more money, keep adding more countries on the side, pushing for ever closer union and more and more integration (like it always does). The EU keeps changing for the worse but the morons in Brussels just don't get it Their arrogance and pompous self importance will be their downfall, the people of Europe (not just in Britain) are rejecting the EU and it's nonsensical policies in ever increasing numbers with each passing election. Just a matter of time before another country leaves and just a matter of time before a number of countries leave and it's just a matter of time before the EU will be consigned to the dustbin of history where it belongs. The positive thing is that the EU is stronger and better without the UK; it's just a pity, (from a European view) that the UK ( which was once a respected country) never engaged at all . And now it's going to retreat into its little nationalist shell; Never mind. The excellent thing about BREXIT is that the looney right wing nationalists in Europe are melting away like snowballs in hell. Doesn't look like that from where I'm standing, AFD in Germany are increasing their vote share with each passing election, Front National in France are getting stronger, anti EU parties are gaining more support right across Europe with each passing election. You really should open your eyes to it instead of putting the EU blinkers on. AU contraire; if you read the continental press; and listened to what is going on ( not the daily Mail or the Telegraph misinterpretations) you would know what is actually happening. " So the official election results in Germany with significant gains for the AFD were false then? | |||
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" The majority voted out and starting hundreds of threads on here won't change that result. We are leaving. Good or bad we have to accept that! No we don't. We were in, and BREXITERs campaigned to get out; they didn't accept the status quo; That was legitimate; So its legitimate to now campaign to remain/ rejoin. And meanwhile hold the BREXITERs' feet to the fire over their plans ( or lack of) What were the Remainers plans had you secured a vote to remain? There was no need for a plan; everything was a status quo and working pretty well. Apart from being better at integrating with the rest of the EU, and the UK actually becoming grown up and playing its part properly. There was no Status Quo option on the ballot paper. For remain the EU would keep increasing its demands for more money, keep adding more countries on the side, pushing for ever closer union and more and more integration (like it always does). The EU keeps changing for the worse but the morons in Brussels just don't get it Their arrogance and pompous self importance will be their downfall, the people of Europe (not just in Britain) are rejecting the EU and it's nonsensical policies in ever increasing numbers with each passing election. Just a matter of time before another country leaves and just a matter of time before a number of countries leave and it's just a matter of time before the EU will be consigned to the dustbin of history where it belongs. The positive thing is that the EU is stronger and better without the UK; it's just a pity, (from a European view) that the UK ( which was once a respected country) never engaged at all . And now it's going to retreat into its little nationalist shell; Never mind. The excellent thing about BREXIT is that the looney right wing nationalists in Europe are melting away like snowballs in hell. Doesn't look like that from where I'm standing, AFD in Germany are increasing their vote share with each passing election, Front National in France are getting stronger, anti EU parties are gaining more support right across Europe with each passing election. You really should open your eyes to it instead of putting the EU blinkers on. " You say that as if you enjoy the prospect of La Pen ruling France, am I wrong? | |||
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" The majority voted out and starting hundreds of threads on here won't change that result. We are leaving. Good or bad we have to accept that! No we don't. We were in, and BREXITERs campaigned to get out; they didn't accept the status quo; That was legitimate; So its legitimate to now campaign to remain/ rejoin. And meanwhile hold the BREXITERs' feet to the fire over their plans ( or lack of) What were the Remainers plans had you secured a vote to remain? There was no need for a plan; everything was a status quo and working pretty well. Apart from being better at integrating with the rest of the EU, and the UK actually becoming grown up and playing its part properly. There was no Status Quo option on the ballot paper. For remain the EU would keep increasing its demands for more money, keep adding more countries on the side, pushing for ever closer union and more and more integration (like it always does). The EU keeps changing for the worse but the morons in Brussels just don't get it Their arrogance and pompous self importance will be their downfall, the people of Europe (not just in Britain) are rejecting the EU and it's nonsensical policies in ever increasing numbers with each passing election. Just a matter of time before another country leaves and just a matter of time before a number of countries leave and it's just a matter of time before the EU will be consigned to the dustbin of history where it belongs. The positive thing is that the EU is stronger and better without the UK; it's just a pity, (from a European view) that the UK ( which was once a respected country) never engaged at all . And now it's going to retreat into its little nationalist shell; Never mind. The excellent thing about BREXIT is that the looney right wing nationalists in Europe are melting away like snowballs in hell. Doesn't look like that from where I'm standing, AFD in Germany are increasing their vote share with each passing election, Front National in France are getting stronger, anti EU parties are gaining more support right across Europe with each passing election. You really should open your eyes to it instead of putting the EU blinkers on. AU contraire; if you read the continental press; and listened to what is going on ( not the daily Mail or the Telegraph misinterpretations) you would know what is actually happening. " Of course the continental press is full of how Hollande will win with a landslide in the spring and apparently Merkel is going to increase her majority in the autumn. No doubt next week they will be reporting on the Greek economic boom and the Spanish recipe for zero unemployment. Not forgetting how the Italians will lead the new EU army and the building of a new five star migrant centre in Hungary. You really couldn't make this shit up. | |||
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"What will it take for you to admit that you were wrong about Brexit? " Jeez, your like a broken record, same crap on and on, why not start an interesting post | |||
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" The majority voted out and starting hundreds of threads on here won't change that result. We are leaving. Good or bad we have to accept that! No we don't. We were in, and BREXITERs campaigned to get out; they didn't accept the status quo; That was legitimate; So its legitimate to now campaign to remain/ rejoin. And meanwhile hold the BREXITERs' feet to the fire over their plans ( or lack of) What were the Remainers plans had you secured a vote to remain? There was no need for a plan; everything was a status quo and working pretty well. Apart from being better at integrating with the rest of the EU, and the UK actually becoming grown up and playing its part properly. There was no Status Quo option on the ballot paper. For remain the EU would keep increasing its demands for more money, keep adding more countries on the side, pushing for ever closer union and more and more integration (like it always does). The EU keeps changing for the worse but the morons in Brussels just don't get it Their arrogance and pompous self importance will be their downfall, the people of Europe (not just in Britain) are rejecting the EU and it's nonsensical policies in ever increasing numbers with each passing election. Just a matter of time before another country leaves and just a matter of time before a number of countries leave and it's just a matter of time before the EU will be consigned to the dustbin of history where it belongs. The positive thing is that the EU is stronger and better without the UK; it's just a pity, (from a European view) that the UK ( which was once a respected country) never engaged at all . And now it's going to retreat into its little nationalist shell; Never mind. The excellent thing about BREXIT is that the looney right wing nationalists in Europe are melting away like snowballs in hell. Doesn't look like that from where I'm standing, AFD in Germany are increasing their vote share with each passing election, Front National in France are getting stronger, anti EU parties are gaining more support right across Europe with each passing election. You really should open your eyes to it instead of putting the EU blinkers on. You say that as if you enjoy the prospect of La Pen ruling France, am I wrong?" You mean like Europhiles seem to rejoice in the drop in the pound as if to prove they were right about voting Remain? | |||
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" So you were quite happy being part of an organisation which was unable to get it's accounts passed without the proviso "not free from material error?" An organisation that dictated how we could spend our money? An organisation dedicated to further union? Wow. Then you clearly did not think any reform was required. Why do you keep going on about the EU accounts? You have been directed previously to factual websites that explicitly prove that the accounts have been signed off. You refer to the fact that they were signed off as being not free from material error but do you actually know what that means? It does not mean fraud it means that the EU cannot account for some funds because 80% of those funds were sent to other counties and in isolated cases, the use has not delivered the return as originally accounted for. For example: The Canolfan Cywain rural heritage centre opened in Gwynedd, Wales in 2008 after it received £900,000 from the EU structural development fund. It ran into financial difficulties in September 2011 and closed a year later. The returns that were anticipated in order to balance the issuing of those funds never materialised and therefore theb €900,000 became a material error. As a result of this and a couple of other instances, the House of Commons Public Accounts Committee called on the UK government to improve how it spends EU funds. The committee found that UK departments contribute "additional complexity" to the implementation of EU programmes, especially agricultural and rural development ones, which also drives up errors. There is no suggestion whatsoever that all these errors are reflective of some kind of fraud. Fraud does exist and the EU auditors estimate that it runs at 0.2% of the budget. As for greater union, you should be aware that the UK had opted out of ever closer union." It does depend on how you interpret the figures but 3.6% of the budget seems to figure as the normal unaccounted EU budget. By the way, 0.2% is the amount beyond which the Commission cannot sign off the accounts absolutely. While we are talking figures. There are 751 MEPs. They are on a salary of £6,500 per month. They claim travel. They claim a maximum of £240 per day for renting and furnishing accommodation. They can claim £16,800 per month for supporting staff. The move from Strasbourg to Brussels every month costs £150 million. Eye-watering, isn't it? | |||
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" So you were quite happy being part of an organisation which was unable to get it's accounts passed without the proviso "not free from material error?" An organisation that dictated how we could spend our money? An organisation dedicated to further union? Wow. Then you clearly did not think any reform was required. Why do you keep going on about the EU accounts? You have been directed previously to factual websites that explicitly prove that the accounts have been signed off. You refer to the fact that they were signed off as being not free from material error but do you actually know what that means? It does not mean fraud it means that the EU cannot account for some funds because 80% of those funds were sent to other counties and in isolated cases, the use has not delivered the return as originally accounted for. For example: The Canolfan Cywain rural heritage centre opened in Gwynedd, Wales in 2008 after it received £900,000 from the EU structural development fund. It ran into financial difficulties in September 2011 and closed a year later. The returns that were anticipated in order to balance the issuing of those funds never materialised and therefore theb €900,000 became a material error. As a result of this and a couple of other instances, the House of Commons Public Accounts Committee called on the UK government to improve how it spends EU funds. The committee found that UK departments contribute "additional complexity" to the implementation of EU programmes, especially agricultural and rural development ones, which also drives up errors. There is no suggestion whatsoever that all these errors are reflective of some kind of fraud. Fraud does exist and the EU auditors estimate that it runs at 0.2% of the budget. As for greater union, you should be aware that the UK had opted out of ever closer union. It does depend on how you interpret the figures but 3.6% of the budget seems to figure as the normal unaccounted EU budget. By the way, 0.2% is the amount beyond which the Commission cannot sign off the accounts absolutely. While we are talking figures. There are 751 MEPs. They are on a salary of £6,500 per month. They claim travel. They claim a maximum of £240 per day for renting and furnishing accommodation. They can claim £16,800 per month for supporting staff. The move from Strasbourg to Brussels every month costs £150 million. Eye-watering, isn't it? " Last count I read, 46,000 people worked for the EU. Helps with the unemployment figures though I guess | |||
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" So you were quite happy being part of an organisation which was unable to get it's accounts passed without the proviso "not free from material error?" An organisation that dictated how we could spend our money? An organisation dedicated to further union? Wow. Then you clearly did not think any reform was required. Why do you keep going on about the EU accounts? You have been directed previously to factual websites that explicitly prove that the accounts have been signed off. You refer to the fact that they were signed off as being not free from material error but do you actually know what that means? It does not mean fraud it means that the EU cannot account for some funds because 80% of those funds were sent to other counties and in isolated cases, the use has not delivered the return as originally accounted for. For example: The Canolfan Cywain rural heritage centre opened in Gwynedd, Wales in 2008 after it received £900,000 from the EU structural development fund. It ran into financial difficulties in September 2011 and closed a year later. The returns that were anticipated in order to balance the issuing of those funds never materialised and therefore theb €900,000 became a material error. As a result of this and a couple of other instances, the House of Commons Public Accounts Committee called on the UK government to improve how it spends EU funds. The committee found that UK departments contribute "additional complexity" to the implementation of EU programmes, especially agricultural and rural development ones, which also drives up errors. There is no suggestion whatsoever that all these errors are reflective of some kind of fraud. Fraud does exist and the EU auditors estimate that it runs at 0.2% of the budget. As for greater union, you should be aware that the UK had opted out of ever closer union. It does depend on how you interpret the figures but 3.6% of the budget seems to figure as the normal unaccounted EU budget. By the way, 0.2% is the amount beyond which the Commission cannot sign off the accounts absolutely. While we are talking figures. There are 751 MEPs. They are on a salary of £6,500 per month. They claim travel. They claim a maximum of £240 per day for renting and furnishing accommodation. They can claim £16,800 per month for supporting staff. The move from Strasbourg to Brussels every month costs £150 million. Eye-watering, isn't it? Last count I read, 46,000 people worked for the EU. Helps with the unemployment figures though I guess" Maybe but Belgium is still skint. | |||
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"About the same time YOU admit you were wrong .....? How does that make any sense at all? Its irony ....you ask the most stupid question , arrogantly sitting in pious judgement of anybody who doesnt agree with YOU , and ask a loaded question dripping in venom ..... Neither "side" can claim ANY knowledge of the next 2 years + , it will be what it will be , i voted out and understand it wasnt perfect, i made a valued judgement and stand by it . We should ALL now get behind the decision makers and pull TOGETHER , mud chucking and insulting people by implying they got it "wrong" is simply strengthening the resolve of the majority , its a shock but its democracy ......" Whoa, chill your boots! It was a question aimed at those on both side of the debate for people to look at what they would consider success or failure of their own side of the argument. I think you need to chill out a bit. | |||
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"About the same time YOU admit you were wrong .....? How does that make any sense at all? Its irony ....you ask the most stupid question , arrogantly sitting in pious judgement of anybody who doesnt agree with YOU , and ask a loaded question dripping in venom ..... Neither "side" can claim ANY knowledge of the next 2 years + , it will be what it will be , i voted out and understand it wasnt perfect, i made a valued judgement and stand by it . We should ALL now get behind the decision makers and pull TOGETHER , mud chucking and insulting people by implying they got it "wrong" is simply strengthening the resolve of the majority , its a shock but its democracy ...... Whoa, chill your boots! It was a question aimed at those on both side of the debate for people to look at what they would consider success or failure of their own side of the argument. I think you need to chill out a bit." Your question was when will Brexiters admit they got it wrong. It was not aimed at anything other than your own self-justification. | |||
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"About the same time YOU admit you were wrong .....? How does that make any sense at all? Its irony ....you ask the most stupid question , arrogantly sitting in pious judgement of anybody who doesnt agree with YOU , and ask a loaded question dripping in venom ..... Neither "side" can claim ANY knowledge of the next 2 years + , it will be what it will be , i voted out and understand it wasnt perfect, i made a valued judgement and stand by it . We should ALL now get behind the decision makers and pull TOGETHER , mud chucking and insulting people by implying they got it "wrong" is simply strengthening the resolve of the majority , its a shock but its democracy ...... Whoa, chill your boots! It was a question aimed at those on both side of the debate for people to look at what they would consider success or failure of their own side of the argument. I think you need to chill out a bit." It wasn't a question aimed at both sides of the debate though was it. The Question in your OP was aimed squarely at Leave voters. | |||
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" The majority voted out and starting hundreds of threads on here won't change that result. We are leaving. Good or bad we have to accept that! No we don't. We were in, and BREXITERs campaigned to get out; they didn't accept the status quo; That was legitimate; So its legitimate to now campaign to remain/ rejoin. And meanwhile hold the BREXITERs' feet to the fire over their plans ( or lack of) What were the Remainers plans had you secured a vote to remain? There was no need for a plan; everything was a status quo and working pretty well. Apart from being better at integrating with the rest of the EU, and the UK actually becoming grown up and playing its part properly. There was no Status Quo option on the ballot paper. For remain the EU would keep increasing its demands for more money, keep adding more countries on the side, pushing for ever closer union and more and more integration (like it always does). The EU keeps changing for the worse but the morons in Brussels just don't get it Their arrogance and pompous self importance will be their downfall, the people of Europe (not just in Britain) are rejecting the EU and it's nonsensical policies in ever increasing numbers with each passing election. Just a matter of time before another country leaves and just a matter of time before a number of countries leave and it's just a matter of time before the EU will be consigned to the dustbin of history where it belongs. The positive thing is that the EU is stronger and better without the UK; it's just a pity, (from a European view) that the UK ( which was once a respected country) never engaged at all . And now it's going to retreat into its little nationalist shell; Never mind. The excellent thing about BREXIT is that the looney right wing nationalists in Europe are melting away like snowballs in hell. Doesn't look like that from where I'm standing, AFD in Germany are increasing their vote share with each passing election, Front National in France are getting stronger, anti EU parties are gaining more support right across Europe with each passing election. You really should open your eyes to it instead of putting the EU blinkers on. You say that as if you enjoy the prospect of La Pen ruling France, am I wrong? You mean like Europhiles seem to rejoice in the drop in the pound as if to prove they were right about voting Remain? " So you don't think that La Pen running France would be a good thing? | |||
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"I wonder how the crowned heads of Europe reflect now on their refusal to offer Cameron any significant deal on renegotiation? I wonder if they reflect and admit they were wrong?" They could do little else, changing the terms of Britains membership too radically would have opened the floodgates for other member states to push for custom built unique deals. It was sadly inevitable | |||
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"About the same time YOU admit you were wrong .....? How does that make any sense at all? Its irony ....you ask the most stupid question , arrogantly sitting in pious judgement of anybody who doesnt agree with YOU , and ask a loaded question dripping in venom ..... Neither "side" can claim ANY knowledge of the next 2 years + , it will be what it will be , i voted out and understand it wasnt perfect, i made a valued judgement and stand by it . We should ALL now get behind the decision makers and pull TOGETHER , mud chucking and insulting people by implying they got it "wrong" is simply strengthening the resolve of the majority , its a shock but its democracy ...... Whoa, chill your boots! It was a question aimed at those on both side of the debate for people to look at what they would consider success or failure of their own side of the argument. I think you need to chill out a bit. Your question was when will Brexiters admit they got it wrong. It was not aimed at anything other than your own self-justification." Maybe try reading the OP again?  | |||
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"I wonder how the crowned heads of Europe reflect now on their refusal to offer Cameron any significant deal on renegotiation? I wonder if they reflect and admit they were wrong?" I wonder if the eu release minutes of their meetings like the uk does,it would make very interesting reading, | |||
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"I wonder how the crowned heads of Europe reflect now on their refusal to offer Cameron any significant deal on renegotiation? I wonder if they reflect and admit they were wrong? I wonder if the eu release minutes of their meetings like the uk does,it would make very interesting reading, " The UK releases minutes of meetings?, do you mean cabinet minutes? | |||
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"About the same time YOU admit you were wrong .....? How does that make any sense at all? Its irony ....you ask the most stupid question , arrogantly sitting in pious judgement of anybody who doesnt agree with YOU , and ask a loaded question dripping in venom ..... Neither "side" can claim ANY knowledge of the next 2 years + , it will be what it will be , i voted out and understand it wasnt perfect, i made a valued judgement and stand by it . We should ALL now get behind the decision makers and pull TOGETHER , mud chucking and insulting people by implying they got it "wrong" is simply strengthening the resolve of the majority , its a shock but its democracy ...... Whoa, chill your boots! It was a question aimed at those on both side of the debate for people to look at what they would consider success or failure of their own side of the argument. I think you need to chill out a bit. Your question was when will Brexiters admit they got it wrong. It was not aimed at anything other than your own self-justification. Maybe try reading the OP again? "I did. It said "What will it take for you to admit that you were wrong about Brexit?" | |||
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"About the same time YOU admit you were wrong .....? How does that make any sense at all? Its irony ....you ask the most stupid question , arrogantly sitting in pious judgement of anybody who doesnt agree with YOU , and ask a loaded question dripping in venom ..... Neither "side" can claim ANY knowledge of the next 2 years + , it will be what it will be , i voted out and understand it wasnt perfect, i made a valued judgement and stand by it . We should ALL now get behind the decision makers and pull TOGETHER , mud chucking and insulting people by implying they got it "wrong" is simply strengthening the resolve of the majority , its a shock but its democracy ...... Whoa, chill your boots! It was a question aimed at those on both side of the debate for people to look at what they would consider success or failure of their own side of the argument. I think you need to chill out a bit. Your question was when will Brexiters admit they got it wrong. It was not aimed at anything other than your own self-justification. Maybe try reading the OP again? "Well if it was not aimed at those who voted for Brexit, to come up with a thread like this it must have occured to you that you voted the wrong way, so go ahead, tell us why you were wrong?... | |||
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"About the same time YOU admit you were wrong .....? How does that make any sense at all? Its irony ....you ask the most stupid question , arrogantly sitting in pious judgement of anybody who doesnt agree with YOU , and ask a loaded question dripping in venom ..... Neither "side" can claim ANY knowledge of the next 2 years + , it will be what it will be , i voted out and understand it wasnt perfect, i made a valued judgement and stand by it . We should ALL now get behind the decision makers and pull TOGETHER , mud chucking and insulting people by implying they got it "wrong" is simply strengthening the resolve of the majority , its a shock but its democracy ...... Whoa, chill your boots! It was a question aimed at those on both side of the debate for people to look at what they would consider success or failure of their own side of the argument. I think you need to chill out a bit. Your question was when will Brexiters admit they got it wrong. It was not aimed at anything other than your own self-justification. Maybe try reading the OP again?
I did. It said "What will it take for you to admit that you were wrong about Brexit?"
"Well Brexit is the subject at hand. People who voted to leave have a view of Brexit, and people who voted remain have a view of Brexit. So I was wondering what it would take, for either people on either side to admit that their view was wrong. For example "if X happened in the future I would know I was on the wrong side of the argument". I didn't think it would cause this much fuss. | |||
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"I wonder how the crowned heads of Europe reflect now on their refusal to offer Cameron any significant deal on renegotiation? I wonder if they reflect and admit they were wrong? I wonder if the eu release minutes of their meetings like the uk does,it would make very interesting reading, The UK releases minutes of meetings?, do you mean cabinet minutes?" yes, I know its 30years | |||
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"About the same time YOU admit you were wrong .....? How does that make any sense at all? Its irony ....you ask the most stupid question , arrogantly sitting in pious judgement of anybody who doesnt agree with YOU , and ask a loaded question dripping in venom ..... Neither "side" can claim ANY knowledge of the next 2 years + , it will be what it will be , i voted out and understand it wasnt perfect, i made a valued judgement and stand by it . We should ALL now get behind the decision makers and pull TOGETHER , mud chucking and insulting people by implying they got it "wrong" is simply strengthening the resolve of the majority , its a shock but its democracy ...... Whoa, chill your boots! It was a question aimed at those on both side of the debate for people to look at what they would consider success or failure of their own side of the argument. I think you need to chill out a bit. Your question was when will Brexiters admit they got it wrong. It was not aimed at anything other than your own self-justification. Maybe try reading the OP again?
I did. It said "What will it take for you to admit that you were wrong about Brexit?"
Well Brexit is the subject at hand. People who voted to leave have a view of Brexit, and people who voted remain have a view of Brexit. So I was wondering what it would take, for either people on either side to admit that their view was wrong. For example "if X happened in the future I would know I was on the wrong side of the argument".
I didn't think it would cause this much fuss. "Then what would it take to admit that you were wrong? | |||
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"You are making the same mistake there as most remainers. You are assuming that Brexiters are stupid. There were as many outrageous predictions from the remainers. Does that make them stupid, too? I really don't think that a population with an average IQ of 100 is that gullible. Right... The £ at a 175 year low against other currencies and the triggering of article 50 has only been hinted at... Wonder if the £ dropping though the cellar when article 50 is eventually triggered will force you to admit the truth or will you and the rest of the Little Briton mob tell us that having our life savings destroyed is good news? Wake up! Stop believing your own propaganda and start seeing what is happening in front of you!" However the value of the currency has not fallen because of Brexit , it has fallen because it was over valued and a correction would have occurred regardless of the result . Most people life savings will have gone up , not down | |||
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"You are making the same mistake there as most remainers. You are assuming that Brexiters are stupid. There were as many outrageous predictions from the remainers. Does that make them stupid, too? I really don't think that a population with an average IQ of 100 is that gullible. Right... The £ at a 175 year low against other currencies and the triggering of article 50 has only been hinted at... Wonder if the £ dropping though the cellar when article 50 is eventually triggered will force you to admit the truth or will you and the rest of the Little Briton mob tell us that having our life savings destroyed is good news? Wake up! Stop believing your own propaganda and start seeing what is happening in front of you! However the value of the currency has not fallen because of Brexit , it has fallen because it was over valued and a correction would have occurred regardless of the result . Most people life savings will have gone up , not down " The thing is it's not a correction, our eldest son is a financial analyst and I've spoken in depth to him on the matter over this past weekend, a correction would be in the 5-7% region, it's actually something that the BOE has been quietly attempting to manipulate over the past six months as the pound was too strong, but it's the dumping of the pound by some very prominent organisations and individuals overseas and it's blatantly (to the City at least) because of the uncertainty over the way Britain is handling it's divorce from the EU. The City sees the government as a rabbit in the headlamps, there was clearly no firm plan for this divorce, and to be fair to the government it must be a huge undertaking, there is no precedent for this divorce and analysts think that the EU itself have very little idea how to handle the whole process. There is a spotlight on the likes of Soros and Buffet at the moment, any slightest sign of them dumping the pound will likely lead to a run on our currency, and that will be no good for ANYONE in the UK, it will shock the markets and the heavy recent gains in the FTSE will be wiped out in the blink of the eye. And let's not get too excited about pension funds and savings seeing major benefits from this recent FTSE activity as much of the prominent gains will have little impact on typical pension fund stock holdings. Whatever your stance, remain or leave, the downward activity in the strength of the pound against the dollar is not something to be flippant about, it's actually potentially extremely damaging to the country as a whole.  | |||
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"For example if the NHS doesn't get an extra £350m a week, will that make it a failure? " No ! We will have our independence back
Also we can have bigger vacuum cleaners | |||
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"For example if the NHS doesn't get an extra £350m a week, will that make it a failure? " It already is a failure; | |||
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"For example if the NHS doesn't get an extra £350m a week, will that make it a failure? It already is a failure; " how can you call a country getting a welcome economic stimulus and an economy doing well a failure? | |||
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"For example if the NHS doesn't get an extra £350m a week, will that make it a failure? It already is a failure; how can you call a country getting a welcome economic stimulus and an economy doing well a failure?" The NHS is a failure; it's collapsing right now ( many say it is already beyond the point if no return) So try reading my response; As for the rest; it's fairly pointless arguing ( playing chess with pigeons) | |||
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"For example if the NHS doesn't get an extra £350m a week, will that make it a failure? It already is a failure; how can you call a country getting a welcome economic stimulus and an economy doing well a failure? The NHS is a failure; it's collapsing right now ( many say it is already beyond the point if no return) So try reading my response; As for the rest; it's fairly pointless arguing ( playing chess with pigeons) " I did read your response but didn't think you were referring to the NHS as it is not a failure | |||
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"For example if the NHS doesn't get an extra £350m a week, will that make it a failure? It already is a failure; how can you call a country getting a welcome economic stimulus and an economy doing well a failure? The NHS is a failure; it's collapsing right now ( many say it is already beyond the point if no return) So try reading my response; As for the rest; it's fairly pointless arguing ( playing chess with pigeons) " The NHS is not a failure, it's just used a political pawn by all parties | |||
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"For example if the NHS doesn't get an extra £350m a week, will that make it a failure? It already is a failure; how can you call a country getting a welcome economic stimulus and an economy doing well a failure? The NHS is a failure; it's collapsing right now ( many say it is already beyond the point if no return) So try reading my response; As for the rest; it's fairly pointless arguing ( playing chess with pigeons) I did read your response but didn't think you were referring to the NHS as it is not a failure" What alternative reality are you living in? | |||
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"For example if the NHS doesn't get an extra £350m a week, will that make it a failure? It already is a failure; how can you call a country getting a welcome economic stimulus and an economy doing well a failure? The NHS is a failure; it's collapsing right now ( many say it is already beyond the point if no return) So try reading my response; As for the rest; it's fairly pointless arguing ( playing chess with pigeons) The NHS is not a failure, it's just used a political pawn by all parties" I could almost agree with that but I would have to make a couple of small changes. The NHS is a failure, because it's just used as a political pawn by all parties. That's better. | |||
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"For example if the NHS doesn't get an extra £350m a week, will that make it a failure? It already is a failure; how can you call a country getting a welcome economic stimulus and an economy doing well a failure? The NHS is a failure; it's collapsing right now ( many say it is already beyond the point if no return) So try reading my response; As for the rest; it's fairly pointless arguing ( playing chess with pigeons) I did read your response but didn't think you were referring to the NHS as it is not a failure What alternative reality are you living in? " how can there be an alternative reality? | |||
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"Anyway OP, you've avoided the question as usual. What will it take for you to admit you were wrong about Brexit?" Come on OP, why won't you answer? | |||
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"Anyway OP, you've avoided the question as usual. What will it take for you to admit you were wrong about Brexit? Come on OP, why won't you answer?" He never does when cornered | |||
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"Nothing whatsoever could make me even begin to rethink my leave vote. Especially not the negativity I have read on here from bitter twisted "remainers" who were told they were going to win the referendum, then got the shock of their miserable lives. It is going to take time, the govt is dragging its feet on A50, and even after that it takes 2 years to be completely free of the shitfest that is the EU. Until then the real benefits of BREXIT will not be visible. In the meantime I for one will ignore the idiotic scaremongering and the prophets of doom who are so obsessed with spreading it. As for calling me and those with similar views "traitors who sold out our country?" I would suggest that the gob***** who typed that is one of the worst traitors out. Another PC drone without a mind of its own, aimlessly posting the same ridiculous message, and expecting people to change their minds because of it. NOBODY CARES WHAT YOU THINK! I'm going to get on with my own shit now, because I haven't got time to argue with half heads. Tatty bye!" | |||
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"Here is a question for Remainers, ...... Is the EU already a failure? Now due to the level of anger, resistance and hostility that the EU has managed to harvest towards it from right across Europe (not just in the UK), that really is quite can achievement. Juncker, Tusk an Co should be very proud of what they have managed to accomplish (NOT). " Do please detail this level of anger, resistance and hostility of which you speak; And the evidence of it. | |||
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"Here is a question for Remainers, ...... Is the EU already a failure? Now due to the level of anger, resistance and hostility that the EU has managed to harvest towards it from right across Europe (not just in the UK), that really is quite can achievement. Juncker, Tusk an Co should be very proud of what they have managed to accomplish (NOT). Do please detail this level of anger, resistance and hostility of which you speak; And the evidence of it. " In the UK = The Brexit vote. In Germany = The rise of the AFD party In France = The rise of Front National In Austria = A far right anti EU candidate coming within a whisker of leading the country. In Hungary = The people voting in a referendum to reject the EU policy on distribution of migrants from the migrant crisis In Holland = The rise of Geert Wilders and his anti EU freedom party In Denmark, France and Holland the rejection of the new EU constitution by the people only for the EU to then ignore the wishes of the people and "repackage" it as the Lisbon treaty. Ireland also rejected it in a referendum but were then asked again in a 2nd referendum because the EU didn't like the first answer. The rise of Neo Nazi parties in Greece and the election of a far left anti austerity party in protest at the EU imposed austerity on the country. It seems to me the EU is creating more problems than it is solving, it is headed on a path to self destruction and the Elitist pompous buffoons in Brussels seem blind to it and refuse to offer any kind of meaningful reform . | |||
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"30 posts in and no one has answered the question yet. OK. I'll bite. Bankrupt Britain and booming EU. However don't expect me to be saying it any time soon. So what will it take for the remainers to admit they were wrong about Brexit?" A sustained period of economic growth in the UK above the European average: Increased trade above what could have been expected had we remained; increase in individual wealth of UK citizens above that of other similar countries both in Europe and beyond; the UK moving up the table of large economies from 5th to 4th (we've currently dropped from 5th to 6th). There may be others but that's a good starting point. | |||
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"Here is a question for Remainers, ...... Is the EU already a failure? Now due to the level of anger, resistance and hostility that the EU has managed to harvest towards it from right across Europe (not just in the UK), that really is quite can achievement. Juncker, Tusk an Co should be very proud of what they have managed to accomplish (NOT). Do please detail this level of anger, resistance and hostility of which you speak; And the evidence of it. In the UK = The Brexit vote. In Germany = The rise of the AFD party In France = The rise of Front National In Austria = A far right anti EU candidate coming within a whisker of leading the country. In Hungary = The people voting in a referendum to reject the EU policy on distribution of migrants from the migrant crisis In Holland = The rise of Geert Wilders and his anti EU freedom party In Denmark, France and Holland the rejection of the new EU constitution by the people only for the EU to then ignore the wishes of the people and "repackage" it as the Lisbon treaty. Ireland also rejected it in a referendum but were then asked again in a 2nd referendum because the EU didn't like the first answer. The rise of Neo Nazi parties in Greece and the election of a far left anti austerity party in protest at the EU imposed austerity on the country. It seems to me the EU is creating more problems than it is solving, it is headed on a path to self destruction and the Elitist pompous buffoons in Brussels seem blind to it and refuse to offer any kind of meaningful reform . " But the man in the street, in Paris, Rome, Madrid, Barcelona, Bordeaux, Berlin, Amsterdam, has no " anger, ", or " hostility" or " resistance" to the EU; like any " governmental "organization, it is sometimes criticized; but us universally seen as a useful and good thing; Most of the " so called anger " to which you refer comes from certain agenda- led politicians; and actually concern internal national issues; the EU seldom features in any of the discussions internally . There's is a growing tendency world wide for nationalist , right and far right, rxenophobic politicians to do a bit of " whipping up" works well with the ill educated, but the generally see reason . Scan any continental newspaper, you will see the marked difference between their coverage and those of the UK press. | |||
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"30 posts in and no one has answered the question yet. OK. I'll bite. Bankrupt Britain and booming EU. However don't expect me to be saying it any time soon. So what will it take for the remainers to admit they were wrong about Brexit? A sustained period of economic growth in the UK above the European average: Increased trade above what could have been expected had we remained; increase in individual wealth of UK citizens above that of other similar countries both in Europe and beyond; the UK moving up the table of large economies from 5th to 4th (we've currently dropped from 5th to 6th). There may be others but that's a good starting point." Thats all very reasonable in my opinion and hopefully will be acheivable as well  | |||
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"30 posts in and no one has answered the question yet. OK. I'll bite. Bankrupt Britain and booming EU. However don't expect me to be saying it any time soon. So what will it take for the remainers to admit they were wrong about Brexit? A sustained period of economic growth in the UK above the European average: Increased trade above what could have been expected had we remained; increase in individual wealth of UK citizens above that of other similar countries both in Europe and beyond; the UK moving up the table of large economies from 5th to 4th (we've currently dropped from 5th to 6th). There may be others but that's a good starting point. Thats all very reasonable in my opinion and hopefully will be acheivable as well "I really hope so to but I currently don't believe it will be. I also seriously hope, if a hard BREXIT actually happens, that I'm proved wrong. At the end of the day I'd much rather be prosperous and wrong than poor and right on this issue. I just wonder sometimes how many leavers feel the same. | |||
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"Here is a question for Remainers, ...... Is the EU already a failure? Now due to the level of anger, resistance and hostility that the EU has managed to harvest towards it from right across Europe (not just in the UK), that really is quite can achievement. Juncker, Tusk an Co should be very proud of what they have managed to accomplish (NOT). Do please detail this level of anger, resistance and hostility of which you speak; And the evidence of it. In the UK = The Brexit vote. In Germany = The rise of the AFD party In France = The rise of Front National In Austria = A far right anti EU candidate coming within a whisker of leading the country. In Hungary = The people voting in a referendum to reject the EU policy on distribution of migrants from the migrant crisis In Holland = The rise of Geert Wilders and his anti EU freedom party In Denmark, France and Holland the rejection of the new EU constitution by the people only for the EU to then ignore the wishes of the people and "repackage" it as the Lisbon treaty. Ireland also rejected it in a referendum but were then asked again in a 2nd referendum because the EU didn't like the first answer. The rise of Neo Nazi parties in Greece and the election of a far left anti austerity party in protest at the EU imposed austerity on the country. It seems to me the EU is creating more problems than it is solving, it is headed on a path to self destruction and the Elitist pompous buffoons in Brussels seem blind to it and refuse to offer any kind of meaningful reform . But the man in the street, in Paris, Rome, Madrid, Barcelona, Bordeaux, Berlin, Amsterdam, has no " anger, ", or " hostility" or " resistance" to the EU; like any " governmental "organization, it is sometimes criticized; but us universally seen as a useful and good thing; Most of the " so called anger " to which you refer comes from certain agenda- led politicians; and actually concern internal national issues; the EU seldom features in any of the discussions internally . There's is a growing tendency world wide for nationalist , right and far right, rxenophobic politicians to do a bit of " whipping up" works well with the ill educated, but the generally see reason . Scan any continental newspaper, you will see the marked difference between their coverage and those of the UK press. " Hotlovefun who posts on here and lives in Germany and Spain seems to have a different opinion. Also it is the man in the street who is voting for the parties I listed in increasing numbers with each passing election in Europe. We shall see what happens in the elections in Germany and France next year. | |||
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"Here is a question for Remainers, ...... Is the EU already a failure? Now due to the level of anger, resistance and hostility that the EU has managed to harvest towards it from right across Europe (not just in the UK), that really is quite can achievement. Juncker, Tusk an Co should be very proud of what they have managed to accomplish (NOT). Do please detail this level of anger, resistance and hostility of which you speak; And the evidence of it. In the UK = The Brexit vote. In Germany = The rise of the AFD party In France = The rise of Front National In Austria = A far right anti EU candidate coming within a whisker of leading the country. In Hungary = The people voting in a referendum to reject the EU policy on distribution of migrants from the migrant crisis In Holland = The rise of Geert Wilders and his anti EU freedom party In Denmark, France and Holland the rejection of the new EU constitution by the people only for the EU to then ignore the wishes of the people and "repackage" it as the Lisbon treaty. Ireland also rejected it in a referendum but were then asked again in a 2nd referendum because the EU didn't like the first answer. The rise of Neo Nazi parties in Greece and the election of a far left anti austerity party in protest at the EU imposed austerity on the country. It seems to me the EU is creating more problems than it is solving, it is headed on a path to self destruction and the Elitist pompous buffoons in Brussels seem blind to it and refuse to offer any kind of meaningful reform . But the man in the street, in Paris, Rome, Madrid, Barcelona, Bordeaux, Berlin, Amsterdam, has no " anger, ", or " hostility" or " resistance" to the EU; like any " governmental "organization, it is sometimes criticized; but us universally seen as a useful and good thing; Most of the " so called anger " to which you refer comes from certain agenda- led politicians; and actually concern internal national issues; the EU seldom features in any of the discussions internally . There's is a growing tendency world wide for nationalist , right and far right, rxenophobic politicians to do a bit of " whipping up" works well with the ill educated, but the generally see reason . Scan any continental newspaper, you will see the marked difference between their coverage and those of the UK press. Hotlovefun who posts on here and lives in Germany and Spain seems to have a different opinion. Also it is the man in the street who is voting for the parties I listed in increasing numbers with each passing election in Europe. We shall see what happens in the elections in Germany and France next year. " In terms of the AfD in Germany; they have actually lost a huge amount of support; that they have appeared to make inroads into The Christian Democrats party is actually because a lot of Christian Democrats have defected to the further left Social Democrats. In Spain, the real issue concerns the a temps by the Catalans to gain independence from Spain; this leads to a fight about ( in a slightly similar way to Scotland) whether an independent Catalonia would be able to stay in the EU. And now the Catakans are fighting between themselves as to whether they should leave Spain ( even if it means leaving the EU) or how to remain in the EU if they leave. In France, the FN has always had a significant following in the industrial North ( where they believe that foreigners are responsible for unemployment ) and in the south ( where there is a large Arabic population. Marine LePen has had, however, to " sanitize" -at least outwardly- the FN's policies, to retain support; to the point where Sarkozy, in his bid to win the Republicains nomination, has been taking his rhetoric further right. Meanwhile, his centrist opponent for les Republicains, Alain Juppé is gaining ground. In the French elections; the most likely scenario is that the left will bomb ( just because Holkznde is an idiot), in the first round, FN will come second, but in the second round, will be wiped out by les Republicains; whether it is Sarkozy or Juppé. The socialists will hold their noses and ensure that one of them will get through . Austria has never stopped being very " right wing" ( to be polite about them; ),since 1945 even though they managed to hide it, or treat it as the elephant in the room. They just recently have felt a bit more emboldened to be more honest about it. Austria is of little consequence in the big scheme of things anyway; | |||
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