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"The publication of a draft bill for consultation so that it *might* be put before the Scottish Parliament at some future, as yet unspecified, date, to enable MSPs to vote on an issue for which they have no devolved powers, hardly does the thread title justice... Besides, it's old news http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/09/06/nicola-sturgeon-prepares-scottish-independence-referendum-bill-t/ (I suspect it's also dog-whistle politics to distract from issues the MSPs are responsible for) Mr ddc" Old news?........... She only said it half an hour ago to a rousing reception. | |||
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"The publication of a draft bill for consultation so that it *might* be put before the Scottish Parliament at some future, as yet unspecified, date, to enable MSPs to vote on an issue for which they have no devolved powers, hardly does the thread title justice... Besides, it's old news http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/09/06/nicola-sturgeon-prepares-scottish-independence-referendum-bill-t/ (I suspect it's also dog-whistle politics to distract from issues the MSPs are responsible for) Mr ddc Old news?........... She only said it half an hour ago to a rousing reception." But that was like, 30 minutes ago | |||
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"The publication of a draft bill for consultation so that it *might* be put before the Scottish Parliament at some future, as yet unspecified, date, to enable MSPs to vote on an issue for which they have no devolved powers, hardly does the thread title justice... Besides, it's old news http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/09/06/nicola-sturgeon-prepares-scottish-independence-referendum-bill-t/ (I suspect it's also dog-whistle politics to distract from issues the MSPs are responsible for) Mr ddc Old news?........... She only said it half an hour ago to a rousing reception. " I thought that's all she's said since the last referendum. | |||
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"The publication of a draft bill for consultation so that it *might* be put before the Scottish Parliament at some future, as yet unspecified, date, to enable MSPs to vote on an issue for which they have no devolved powers, hardly does the thread title justice... Besides, it's old news http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/09/06/nicola-sturgeon-prepares-scottish-independence-referendum-bill-t/ (I suspect it's also dog-whistle politics to distract from issues the MSPs are responsible for) Mr ddc Old news?........... She only said it half an hour ago to a rousing reception. I thought that's all she's said since the last referendum. " I could be wrong but I thought Teresa May told her a while she could,nt have another referendum. | |||
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"The publication of a draft bill for consultation so that it *might* be put before the Scottish Parliament at some future, as yet unspecified, date, to enable MSPs to vote on an issue for which they have no devolved powers, hardly does the thread title justice... Besides, it's old news http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/09/06/nicola-sturgeon-prepares-scottish-independence-referendum-bill-t/ (I suspect it's also dog-whistle politics to distract from issues the MSPs are responsible for) Mr ddc Old news?........... She only said it half an hour ago to a rousing reception." I'm guessing you didn't note the date on the news report that I posted... | |||
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"The publication of a draft bill for consultation so that it *might* be put before the Scottish Parliament at some future, as yet unspecified, date, to enable MSPs to vote on an issue for which they have no devolved powers, hardly does the thread title justice... Besides, it's old news http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/09/06/nicola-sturgeon-prepares-scottish-independence-referendum-bill-t/ (I suspect it's also dog-whistle politics to distract from issues the MSPs are responsible for) Mr ddc Old news?........... She only said it half an hour ago to a rousing reception." Nicola Sturgeon started harping on about another Scottish referendum the day after the vote to Leave the EU on June 23rd. Bring it on I say, if she loses another so soon after the last one Scottish independence will be dead in the water. Besides the idea of independence inside the EU is a fallacy as she wants to leave the UK and stay in the EU. You can't have independence as a member of the EU. Also if Scotland does leave the UK they may find great difficulty in joining the EU because Spain said they would veto and block any attempts by Scotland to join the EU. | |||
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"The publication of a draft bill for consultation so that it *might* be put before the Scottish Parliament at some future, as yet unspecified, date, to enable MSPs to vote on an issue for which they have no devolved powers, hardly does the thread title justice... Besides, it's old news http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/09/06/nicola-sturgeon-prepares-scottish-independence-referendum-bill-t/ (I suspect it's also dog-whistle politics to distract from issues the MSPs are responsible for) Mr ddc Old news?........... She only said it half an hour ago to a rousing reception. Nicola Sturgeon started harping on about another Scottish referendum the day after the vote to Leave the EU on June 23rd. Bring it on I say, if she loses another so soon after the last one Scottish independence will be dead in the water. Besides the idea of independence inside the EU is a fallacy as she wants to leave the UK and stay in the EU. You can't have independence as a member of the EU. Also if Scotland does leave the UK they may find great difficulty in joining the EU because Spain said they would veto and block any attempts by Scotland to join the EU. " So Scotland can stay in the EU, and England and Wales can leave (NI might want to stay too given the Good Friday Agreement), then everyone is happy. | |||
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"The publication of a draft bill for consultation so that it *might* be put before the Scottish Parliament at some future, as yet unspecified, date, to enable MSPs to vote on an issue for which they have no devolved powers, hardly does the thread title justice... Besides, it's old news http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/09/06/nicola-sturgeon-prepares-scottish-independence-referendum-bill-t/ (I suspect it's also dog-whistle politics to distract from issues the MSPs are responsible for) Mr ddc Old news?........... She only said it half an hour ago to a rousing reception. Nicola Sturgeon started harping on about another Scottish referendum the day after the vote to Leave the EU on June 23rd. Bring it on I say, if she loses another so soon after the last one Scottish independence will be dead in the water. Besides the idea of independence inside the EU is a fallacy as she wants to leave the UK and stay in the EU. You can't have independence as a member of the EU. Also if Scotland does leave the UK they may find great difficulty in joining the EU because Spain said they would veto and block any attempts by Scotland to join the EU. So Scotland can stay in the EU, and England and Wales can leave (NI might want to stay too given the Good Friday Agreement), then everyone is happy." That's not what I said at all. | |||
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"The publication of a draft bill for consultation so that it *might* be put before the Scottish Parliament at some future, as yet unspecified, date, to enable MSPs to vote on an issue for which they have no devolved powers, hardly does the thread title justice... Besides, it's old news http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/09/06/nicola-sturgeon-prepares-scottish-independence-referendum-bill-t/ (I suspect it's also dog-whistle politics to distract from issues the MSPs are responsible for) Mr ddc Old news?........... She only said it half an hour ago to a rousing reception. I thought that's all she's said since the last referendum. I could be wrong but I thought Teresa May told her a while she could,nt have another referendum." The scottish ppl will decide if theres to be another one not may and if she did try to block it she would be playing into snp hands | |||
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"The publication of a draft bill for consultation so that it *might* be put before the Scottish Parliament at some future, as yet unspecified, date, to enable MSPs to vote on an issue for which they have no devolved powers, hardly does the thread title justice... Besides, it's old news http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/09/06/nicola-sturgeon-prepares-scottish-independence-referendum-bill-t/ (I suspect it's also dog-whistle politics to distract from issues the MSPs are responsible for) Mr ddc Old news?........... She only said it half an hour ago to a rousing reception. Nicola Sturgeon started harping on about another Scottish referendum the day after the vote to Leave the EU on June 23rd. Bring it on I say, if she loses another so soon after the last one Scottish independence will be dead in the water. Besides the idea of independence inside the EU is a fallacy as she wants to leave the UK and stay in the EU. You can't have independence as a member of the EU. Also if Scotland does leave the UK they may find great difficulty in joining the EU because Spain said they would veto and block any attempts by Scotland to join the EU. So Scotland can stay in the EU, and England and Wales can leave (NI might want to stay too given the Good Friday Agreement), then everyone is happy. That's not what I said at all. " Why would you be against such an outcome? | |||
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"The publication of a draft bill for consultation so that it *might* be put before the Scottish Parliament at some future, as yet unspecified, date, to enable MSPs to vote on an issue for which they have no devolved powers, hardly does the thread title justice... Besides, it's old news http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/09/06/nicola-sturgeon-prepares-scottish-independence-referendum-bill-t/ (I suspect it's also dog-whistle politics to distract from issues the MSPs are responsible for) Mr ddc Old news?........... She only said it half an hour ago to a rousing reception. I thought that's all she's said since the last referendum. I could be wrong but I thought Teresa May told her a while she could,nt have another referendum. The scottish ppl will decide if theres to be another one not may and if she did try to block it she would be playing into snp hands " They cant have one without a yes from Westminster. | |||
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"The publication of a draft bill for consultation so that it *might* be put before the Scottish Parliament at some future, as yet unspecified, date, to enable MSPs to vote on an issue for which they have no devolved powers, hardly does the thread title justice... Besides, it's old news http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/09/06/nicola-sturgeon-prepares-scottish-independence-referendum-bill-t/ (I suspect it's also dog-whistle politics to distract from issues the MSPs are responsible for) Mr ddc Old news?........... She only said it half an hour ago to a rousing reception. I thought that's all she's said since the last referendum. I could be wrong but I thought Teresa May told her a while she could,nt have another referendum. The scottish ppl will decide if theres to be another one not may and if she did try to block it she would be playing into snp hands They cant have one without a yes from Westminster." They can, but it wouldn't be legally binding. Should we listen to the results of non-binding referendums or not? | |||
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"Nicola Sturgeon: I can confirm today that the Independence Referendum Bill will be published for consultation next week." She is a traitor lock her up,Scotland voted to remain in the United Kingdom she is against that. | |||
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"It was an inevitability to be honest once Scotland voted 65/35 to stay in the EU and the UK voted 52/48 to leave. It is also pretty much a foregone conclusion that the Tories will resist to the point of causing a constitutional crisis ensuring that not only do the Scots vote to sucede from the UK but that the breakup will be bitter." What about the 35% in Scotland who voted leave in the EU referendum then? Who hears their voice? It was a UK wide referendum and the 35% in Scotland helped Leave get an overall majority of 52% in the wider UK. | |||
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"It was an inevitability to be honest once Scotland voted 65/35 to stay in the EU and the UK voted 52/48 to leave. It is also pretty much a foregone conclusion that the Tories will resist to the point of causing a constitutional crisis ensuring that not only do the Scots vote to sucede from the UK but that the breakup will be bitter. What about the 35% in Scotland who voted leave in the EU referendum then? Who hears their voice? It was a UK wide referendum and the 35% in Scotland helped Leave get an overall majority of 52% in the wider UK. " Why do you think the voice of the 35% of Scots who voted Leave should "be heard" but the 48% of the wider UK who voted Remain should put up and shut up? | |||
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"The publication of a draft bill for consultation so that it *might* be put before the Scottish Parliament at some future, as yet unspecified, date, to enable MSPs to vote on an issue for which they have no devolved powers, hardly does the thread title justice... Besides, it's old news http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/09/06/nicola-sturgeon-prepares-scottish-independence-referendum-bill-t/ (I suspect it's also dog-whistle politics to distract from issues the MSPs are responsible for) Mr ddc Old news?........... She only said it half an hour ago to a rousing reception. I thought that's all she's said since the last referendum. I could be wrong but I thought Teresa May told her a while she could,nt have another referendum. The scottish ppl will decide if theres to be another one not may and if she did try to block it she would be playing into snp hands They cant have one without a yes from Westminster. They can, but it wouldn't be legally binding. Should we listen to the results of non-binding referendums or not? " makes me smile 
so many Southerners saying what is right and what is not
at the end of the day, YOU have no vote
The people of Scotland will decide
the rest of the UK has no say.
.
now what is it you don't understand about having no say and no vote? | |||
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"The publication of a draft bill for consultation so that it *might* be put before the Scottish Parliament at some future, as yet unspecified, date, to enable MSPs to vote on an issue for which they have no devolved powers, hardly does the thread title justice... Besides, it's old news http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/09/06/nicola-sturgeon-prepares-scottish-independence-referendum-bill-t/ (I suspect it's also dog-whistle politics to distract from issues the MSPs are responsible for) Mr ddc Old news?........... She only said it half an hour ago to a rousing reception. I thought that's all she's said since the last referendum. I could be wrong but I thought Teresa May told her a while she could,nt have another referendum. The scottish ppl will decide if theres to be another one not may and if she did try to block it she would be playing into snp hands They cant have one without a yes from Westminster. They can, but it wouldn't be legally binding. Should we listen to the results of non-binding referendums or not? makes me smile
so many Southerners saying what is right and what is not
at the end of the day, YOU have no vote
The people of Scotland will decide
the rest of the UK has no say.
.
now what is it you don't understand about having no say and no vote?"I wish I did have a vote.....I'd vote you out in a heart beat, but with absolutely no future hand outs | |||
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"The publication of a draft bill for consultation so that it *might* be put before the Scottish Parliament at some future, as yet unspecified, date, to enable MSPs to vote on an issue for which they have no devolved powers, hardly does the thread title justice... Besides, it's old news http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/09/06/nicola-sturgeon-prepares-scottish-independence-referendum-bill-t/ (I suspect it's also dog-whistle politics to distract from issues the MSPs are responsible for) Mr ddc Old news?........... She only said it half an hour ago to a rousing reception. I thought that's all she's said since the last referendum. I could be wrong but I thought Teresa May told her a while she could,nt have another referendum. The scottish ppl will decide if theres to be another one not may and if she did try to block it she would be playing into snp hands They cant have one without a yes from Westminster. They can, but it wouldn't be legally binding. Should we listen to the results of non-binding referendums or not? makes me smile
so many Southerners saying what is right and what is not
at the end of the day, YOU have no vote
The people of Scotland will decide
the rest of the UK has no say.
.
now what is it you don't understand about having no say and no vote?"I am quite in favour of an England and Wales referendum on whether we want to keep Scotland. It would only be fair. | |||
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"It was an inevitability to be honest once Scotland voted 65/35 to stay in the EU and the UK voted 52/48 to leave. It is also pretty much a foregone conclusion that the Tories will resist to the point of causing a constitutional crisis ensuring that not only do the Scots vote to sucede from the UK but that the breakup will be bitter. What about the 35% in Scotland who voted leave in the EU referendum then? Who hears their voice? It was a UK wide referendum and the 35% in Scotland helped Leave get an overall majority of 52% in the wider UK. Why do you think the voice of the 35% of Scots who voted Leave should "be heard" but the 48% of the wider UK who voted Remain should put up and shut up? " Because the EU referendum was a UK wide election. While the UK remain a 'united' UK you can't divide the countries up to suit your argument/agenda just because you lost in the overall vote 52/48. | |||
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"It was an inevitability to be honest once Scotland voted 65/35 to stay in the EU and the UK voted 52/48 to leave. It is also pretty much a foregone conclusion that the Tories will resist to the point of causing a constitutional crisis ensuring that not only do the Scots vote to sucede from the UK but that the breakup will be bitter. What about the 35% in Scotland who voted leave in the EU referendum then? Who hears their voice? It was a UK wide referendum and the 35% in Scotland helped Leave get an overall majority of 52% in the wider UK. Why do you think the voice of the 35% of Scots who voted Leave should "be heard" but the 48% of the wider UK who voted Remain should put up and shut up? Because the EU referendum was a UK wide election. While the UK remain a 'united' UK you can't divide the countries up to suit your argument/agenda just because you lost in the overall vote 52/48. " But I'm not saying that. I don't think there should be another Scottish referendum. You're the one who is saying the voices of the 35% of scots who voted Leave must be heard. | |||
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"If Scotland votes to leave the UK, there will be a huge amount of animosity towards them from the English and probably Wales and Northern Ireland as well. Tourism will fall and so will the sale of Scottish goods South of the border. This is exactly what will happen with the UK and the EU." Why would tourism and the sale of goods fall ? | |||
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"It was an inevitability to be honest once Scotland voted 65/35 to stay in the EU and the UK voted 52/48 to leave. It is also pretty much a foregone conclusion that the Tories will resist to the point of causing a constitutional crisis ensuring that not only do the Scots vote to sucede from the UK but that the breakup will be bitter. What about the 35% in Scotland who voted leave in the EU referendum then? Who hears their voice? It was a UK wide referendum and the 35% in Scotland helped Leave get an overall majority of 52% in the wider UK. Why do you think the voice of the 35% of Scots who voted Leave should "be heard" but the 48% of the wider UK who voted Remain should put up and shut up? Because the EU referendum was a UK wide election. While the UK remain a 'united' UK you can't divide the countries up to suit your argument/agenda just because you lost in the overall vote 52/48. But I'm not saying that. I don't think there should be another Scottish referendum. You're the one who is saying the voices of the 35% of scots who voted Leave must be heard. " Yes because that 35% contributed to the overall 52% for leave which won the referendum. The 65% who voted remain in Scotland contributed to an overall losing figure of 48% in the wider UK. | |||
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"It was an inevitability to be honest once Scotland voted 65/35 to stay in the EU and the UK voted 52/48 to leave. It is also pretty much a foregone conclusion that the Tories will resist to the point of causing a constitutional crisis ensuring that not only do the Scots vote to sucede from the UK but that the breakup will be bitter. What about the 35% in Scotland who voted leave in the EU referendum then? Who hears their voice? It was a UK wide referendum and the 35% in Scotland helped Leave get an overall majority of 52% in the wider UK. Why do you think the voice of the 35% of Scots who voted Leave should "be heard" but the 48% of the wider UK who voted Remain should put up and shut up? Because the EU referendum was a UK wide election. While the UK remain a 'united' UK you can't divide the countries up to suit your argument/agenda just because you lost in the overall vote 52/48. But I'm not saying that. I don't think there should be another Scottish referendum. You're the one who is saying the voices of the 35% of scots who voted Leave must be heard. Yes because that 35% contributed to the overall 52% for leave which won the referendum. The 65% who voted remain in Scotland contributed to an overall losing figure of 48% in the wider UK. " But why do you give more credence to the 35% in Scotland than the 48% in the rest of the U.K.? (You don't actually need to answer that, btw, it's obviously because they voted what you believe to be the "right" way and therefore they count more than other people) | |||
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"The publication of a draft bill for consultation so that it *might* be put before the Scottish Parliament at some future, as yet unspecified, date, to enable MSPs to vote on an issue for which they have no devolved powers, hardly does the thread title justice... Besides, it's old news http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/09/06/nicola-sturgeon-prepares-scottish-independence-referendum-bill-t/ (I suspect it's also dog-whistle politics to distract from issues the MSPs are responsible for) Mr ddc Old news?........... She only said it half an hour ago to a rousing reception. I thought that's all she's said since the last referendum. I could be wrong but I thought Teresa May told her a while she could,nt have another referendum. The scottish ppl will decide if theres to be another one not may and if she did try to block it she would be playing into snp hands They cant have one without a yes from Westminster. They can, but it wouldn't be legally binding. Should we listen to the results of non-binding referendums or not? makes me smile
so many Southerners saying what is right and what is not
at the end of the day, YOU have no vote
The people of Scotland will decide
the rest of the UK has no say.
.
now what is it you don't understand about having no say and no vote?"Hang on, I thought you were all about (Westminster) Parliamentary sovereignty? | |||
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"It was an inevitability to be honest once Scotland voted 65/35 to stay in the EU and the UK voted 52/48 to leave. It is also pretty much a foregone conclusion that the Tories will resist to the point of causing a constitutional crisis ensuring that not only do the Scots vote to sucede from the UK but that the breakup will be bitter. What about the 35% in Scotland who voted leave in the EU referendum then? Who hears their voice? It was a UK wide referendum and the 35% in Scotland helped Leave get an overall majority of 52% in the wider UK. Why do you think the voice of the 35% of Scots who voted Leave should "be heard" but the 48% of the wider UK who voted Remain should put up and shut up? Because the EU referendum was a UK wide election. While the UK remain a 'united' UK you can't divide the countries up to suit your argument/agenda just because you lost in the overall vote 52/48. But I'm not saying that. I don't think there should be another Scottish referendum. You're the one who is saying the voices of the 35% of scots who voted Leave must be heard. Yes because that 35% contributed to the overall 52% for leave which won the referendum. The 65% who voted remain in Scotland contributed to an overall losing figure of 48% in the wider UK. But why do you give more credence to the 35% in Scotland than the 48% in the rest of the U.K.? (You don't actually need to answer that, btw, it's obviously because they voted what you believe to be the "right" way and therefore they count more than other people)" I was simply using the Remainers own argument against them. They keep saying the losing 48% must be heard, if that is their viewpoint then surely they must agree that the 35% in Scotland must be heard too? It's all irrelevant anyway, Scotland voted to remain in the UK, the EU referendum was a UK wide election and Leave won the overall majority of 52% across England, Wales, Scotland and Northern Ireland combined. | |||
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"If Scotland votes to leave the UK, there will be a huge amount of animosity towards them from the English and probably Wales and Northern Ireland as well. Tourism will fall and so will the sale of Scottish goods South of the border. This is exactly what will happen with the UK and the EU. Why would tourism and the sale of goods fall ?" Imagine if the referendum was the other way round, and Northern Ireland, Wales and England voted to throw Scotland out of the Union, you don't think the people of Scotland would be pissed off? Do you think the people of Sudan are happy about their new neighbour South Sudan? Are the Russians friendly with the Chechens? What do the Moroccans think of Western Sahara? | |||
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"It was an inevitability to be honest once Scotland voted 65/35 to stay in the EU and the UK voted 52/48 to leave. It is also pretty much a foregone conclusion that the Tories will resist to the point of causing a constitutional crisis ensuring that not only do the Scots vote to sucede from the UK but that the breakup will be bitter. What about the 35% in Scotland who voted leave in the EU referendum then? Who hears their voice? It was a UK wide referendum and the 35% in Scotland helped Leave get an overall majority of 52% in the wider UK. Why do you think the voice of the 35% of Scots who voted Leave should "be heard" but the 48% of the wider UK who voted Remain should put up and shut up? Because the EU referendum was a UK wide election. While the UK remain a 'united' UK you can't divide the countries up to suit your argument/agenda just because you lost in the overall vote 52/48. But I'm not saying that. I don't think there should be another Scottish referendum. You're the one who is saying the voices of the 35% of scots who voted Leave must be heard. Yes because that 35% contributed to the overall 52% for leave which won the referendum. The 65% who voted remain in Scotland contributed to an overall losing figure of 48% in the wider UK. But why do you give more credence to the 35% in Scotland than the 48% in the rest of the U.K.? (You don't actually need to answer that, btw, it's obviously because they voted what you believe to be the "right" way and therefore they count more than other people) I was simply using the Remainers own argument against them. They keep saying the losing 48% must be heard, if that is their viewpoint then surely they must agree that the 35% in Scotland must be heard too? It's all irrelevant anyway, Scotland voted to remain in the UK, the EU referendum was a UK wide election and Leave won the overall majority of 52% across England, Wales, Scotland and Northern Ireland combined. " So by this logic - you do think that those who voted remain should have their voices heard. | |||
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"It was an inevitability to be honest once Scotland voted 65/35 to stay in the EU and the UK voted 52/48 to leave. It is also pretty much a foregone conclusion that the Tories will resist to the point of causing a constitutional crisis ensuring that not only do the Scots vote to sucede from the UK but that the breakup will be bitter. What about the 35% in Scotland who voted leave in the EU referendum then? Who hears their voice? It was a UK wide referendum and the 35% in Scotland helped Leave get an overall majority of 52% in the wider UK. Why do you think the voice of the 35% of Scots who voted Leave should "be heard" but the 48% of the wider UK who voted Remain should put up and shut up? Because the EU referendum was a UK wide election. While the UK remain a 'united' UK you can't divide the countries up to suit your argument/agenda just because you lost in the overall vote 52/48. But I'm not saying that. I don't think there should be another Scottish referendum. You're the one who is saying the voices of the 35% of scots who voted Leave must be heard. Yes because that 35% contributed to the overall 52% for leave which won the referendum. The 65% who voted remain in Scotland contributed to an overall losing figure of 48% in the wider UK. But why do you give more credence to the 35% in Scotland than the 48% in the rest of the U.K.? (You don't actually need to answer that, btw, it's obviously because they voted what you believe to be the "right" way and therefore they count more than other people) I was simply using the Remainers own argument against them. They keep saying the losing 48% must be heard, if that is their viewpoint then surely they must agree that the 35% in Scotland must be heard too? It's all irrelevant anyway, Scotland voted to remain in the UK, the EU referendum was a UK wide election and Leave won the overall majority of 52% across England, Wales, Scotland and Northern Ireland combined. So by this logic - you do think that those who voted remain should have their voices heard. " To a point yes, but the winning side (Leave) must get the Lion's share of the slice of the cake. The 35% in Scotland who voted Leave in the EU referendum were on the winning side. | |||
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"It was an inevitability to be honest once Scotland voted 65/35 to stay in the EU and the UK voted 52/48 to leave. It is also pretty much a foregone conclusion that the Tories will resist to the point of causing a constitutional crisis ensuring that not only do the Scots vote to sucede from the UK but that the breakup will be bitter. What about the 35% in Scotland who voted leave in the EU referendum then? Who hears their voice? It was a UK wide referendum and the 35% in Scotland helped Leave get an overall majority of 52% in the wider UK. Why do you think the voice of the 35% of Scots who voted Leave should "be heard" but the 48% of the wider UK who voted Remain should put up and shut up? Because the EU referendum was a UK wide election. While the UK remain a 'united' UK you can't divide the countries up to suit your argument/agenda just because you lost in the overall vote 52/48. But I'm not saying that. I don't think there should be another Scottish referendum. You're the one who is saying the voices of the 35% of scots who voted Leave must be heard. Yes because that 35% contributed to the overall 52% for leave which won the referendum. The 65% who voted remain in Scotland contributed to an overall losing figure of 48% in the wider UK. But why do you give more credence to the 35% in Scotland than the 48% in the rest of the U.K.? (You don't actually need to answer that, btw, it's obviously because they voted what you believe to be the "right" way and therefore they count more than other people) I was simply using the Remainers own argument against them. They keep saying the losing 48% must be heard, if that is their viewpoint then surely they must agree that the 35% in Scotland must be heard too? It's all irrelevant anyway, Scotland voted to remain in the UK, the EU referendum was a UK wide election and Leave won the overall majority of 52% across England, Wales, Scotland and Northern Ireland combined. So by this logic - you do think that those who voted remain should have their voices heard. To a point yes, but the winning side (Leave) must get the Lion's share of the slice of the cake. The 35% in Scotland who voted Leave in the EU referendum were on the winning side. " This is bonkers logic even for you Monsieur Centaur | |||
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"It was an inevitability to be honest once Scotland voted 65/35 to stay in the EU and the UK voted 52/48 to leave. It is also pretty much a foregone conclusion that the Tories will resist to the point of causing a constitutional crisis ensuring that not only do the Scots vote to sucede from the UK but that the breakup will be bitter. What about the 35% in Scotland who voted leave in the EU referendum then? Who hears their voice? It was a UK wide referendum and the 35% in Scotland helped Leave get an overall majority of 52% in the wider UK. Why do you think the voice of the 35% of Scots who voted Leave should "be heard" but the 48% of the wider UK who voted Remain should put up and shut up? Because the EU referendum was a UK wide election. While the UK remain a 'united' UK you can't divide the countries up to suit your argument/agenda just because you lost in the overall vote 52/48. But I'm not saying that. I don't think there should be another Scottish referendum. You're the one who is saying the voices of the 35% of scots who voted Leave must be heard. Yes because that 35% contributed to the overall 52% for leave which won the referendum. The 65% who voted remain in Scotland contributed to an overall losing figure of 48% in the wider UK. But why do you give more credence to the 35% in Scotland than the 48% in the rest of the U.K.? (You don't actually need to answer that, btw, it's obviously because they voted what you believe to be the "right" way and therefore they count more than other people) I was simply using the Remainers own argument against them. They keep saying the losing 48% must be heard, if that is their viewpoint then surely they must agree that the 35% in Scotland must be heard too? It's all irrelevant anyway, Scotland voted to remain in the UK, the EU referendum was a UK wide election and Leave won the overall majority of 52% across England, Wales, Scotland and Northern Ireland combined. So by this logic - you do think that those who voted remain should have their voices heard. To a point yes, but the winning side (Leave) must get the Lion's share of the slice of the cake. The 35% in Scotland who voted Leave in the EU referendum were on the winning side. This is bonkers logic even for you Monsieur Centaur "How is it bonkers? What is it you don't understand that the 35% in Scotland who voted Leave were on the winning side of the EU referendum. Leave won the referendum with 52% overall. | |||
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"The publication of a draft bill for consultation so that it *might* be put before the Scottish Parliament at some future, as yet unspecified, date, to enable MSPs to vote on an issue for which they have no devolved powers, hardly does the thread title justice... Besides, it's old news http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/09/06/nicola-sturgeon-prepares-scottish-independence-referendum-bill-t/ (I suspect it's also dog-whistle politics to distract from issues the MSPs are responsible for) Mr ddc Old news?........... She only said it half an hour ago to a rousing reception. I thought that's all she's said since the last referendum. I could be wrong but I thought Teresa May told her a while she could,nt have another referendum. The scottish ppl will decide if theres to be another one not may and if she did try to block it she would be playing into snp hands They cant have one without a yes from Westminster. They can, but it wouldn't be legally binding. Should we listen to the results of non-binding referendums or not? makes me smile
so many Southerners saying what is right and what is not
at the end of the day, YOU have no vote
The people of Scotland will decide
the rest of the UK has no say.
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now what is it you don't understand about having no say and no vote?
Hang on, I thought you were all about (Westminster) Parliamentary sovereignty? "doesn't really matter, my views fact is, only the Scots will decide, England and their puppy dogs have no say no vote that's just the way it is, only Scotland can decide. | |||
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"The publication of a draft bill for consultation so that it *might* be put before the Scottish Parliament at some future, as yet unspecified, date, to enable MSPs to vote on an issue for which they have no devolved powers, hardly does the thread title justice... Besides, it's old news http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/09/06/nicola-sturgeon-prepares-scottish-independence-referendum-bill-t/ (I suspect it's also dog-whistle politics to distract from issues the MSPs are responsible for) Mr ddc Old news?........... She only said it half an hour ago to a rousing reception. I thought that's all she's said since the last referendum. I could be wrong but I thought Teresa May told her a while she could,nt have another referendum. The scottish ppl will decide if theres to be another one not may and if she did try to block it she would be playing into snp hands They cant have one without a yes from Westminster. They can, but it wouldn't be legally binding. Should we listen to the results of non-binding referendums or not? makes me smile
so many Southerners saying what is right and what is not
at the end of the day, YOU have no vote
The people of Scotland will decide
the rest of the UK has no say.
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now what is it you don't understand about having no say and no vote?
Hang on, I thought you were all about (Westminster) Parliamentary sovereignty?
doesn't really matter, my views
fact is, only the Scots will decide, England and their puppy dogs have no say
no vote
that's just the way it is, only Scotland can decide."I had thought that your main reason for wanting to leave the EU was for Parliamentary sovereignty, but I guess not, so what was your main reason then? Who are you calling England's puppy dogs? | |||
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"Keeping the troops happy. Creating another possible grievence to keep her and her ilk in power. I voted remain and no and am seriously pissed that Sturgeon claims to speak for me. One simple question, do you have it in writing, legally binding, from all member states of the EU, that an iScotland will gain "automatic" entry to the EU? If you don't, then its as big a lie as the £350 million a week. " It is Ms Fish's problem. The EU do not seem to be welcoming Scotland as an entity. She has tried but they don't seem to want it. Yet she seems to want to argue based on the Scottish EU opinion. Very strange. If she could guarantee entry to the EU in the event of an independence vote, then she could probably swing it. But she can't. So what is the point? | |||
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"Keeping the troops happy. Creating another possible grievence to keep her and her ilk in power. I voted remain and no and am seriously pissed that Sturgeon claims to speak for me. One simple question, do you have it in writing, legally binding, from all member states of the EU, that an iScotland will gain "automatic" entry to the EU? If you don't, then its as big a lie as the £350 million a week. It is Ms Fish's problem. The EU do not seem to be welcoming Scotland as an entity. She has tried but they don't seem to want it. Yet she seems to want to argue based on the Scottish EU opinion. Very strange. If she could guarantee entry to the EU in the event of an independence vote, then she could probably swing it. But she can't. So what is the point?" Spain will block any attempt by Scotland to join the European Union on the grounds of the struggle for independence in their own country. | |||
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"Keeping the troops happy. Creating another possible grievence to keep her and her ilk in power. I voted remain and no and am seriously pissed that Sturgeon claims to speak for me. One simple question, do you have it in writing, legally binding, from all member states of the EU, that an iScotland will gain "automatic" entry to the EU? If you don't, then its as big a lie as the £350 million a week. It is Ms Fish's problem. The EU do not seem to be welcoming Scotland as an entity. She has tried but they don't seem to want it. Yet she seems to want to argue based on the Scottish EU opinion. Very strange. If she could guarantee entry to the EU in the event of an independence vote, then she could probably swing it. But she can't. So what is the point?" I don't agree that would swing it. Many nats I know aren't happy with the idea of leaving one Union to then jump back into another one. However they voted 'Remain' in the referendum as they hoped it would strengthen the case for independence if the UK voted to leave the EU. Also, the madness of voting to leave a Union, The UK, where you export £48.5bn of goods every year to join one where you export less than a quarter of that, £11.6bn to the EU , would be fully exposed during any campaign. | |||
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"I don't really understand the out of the UK, in the EU stance. I think you either believe in working together (pro-UK, pro-EU) or you believe in going it alone (out of the UK, out of the EU). I also don't get the out of the EU, in the UK stance that i think of lot of English Brexitiers hold." Completely agree, it's counterintuitive to say "better together" when it comes to the EU but not the UK. | |||
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"I think that if the SNP want IndyRef2 then we should leave them to get on with it and this time let the Scots themselves debate and decide their own future. I can't believe that anyone contributing to this thread can have forgotten the interventions by English politicians before IndyRef1 and assurances made that it was the best way of staying in the EU. The SNP have said all along that if the UK voted out of the EU and Scotland voted to stay in the EU that would be a good enough reason to trigger IndyRef2. Nicola Sturgeon is being true to her word and I think this time that we English should just let them come to their own decision because unhelpful interventions will definitely provoke an anti Union sentiment. I don't actually see it as unreasonable that a future Celtic access including Eire, N Ireland and Scotland to be loosely connected sub entity within a broader European Union." Mr.S here Yeah the whole 3 Better Together leaders and their parties claiming that if Scotland voted no Scotland's place in the EU would be safe in the UK has come back to bit them on the arse!! Plus it didnt help when in the last week before the Scottish referendum up popped the famous VOW of extra devolved powers that we are still yet to see. Funny how those extra powers were never on the ballot paper in 2014 its a clear breach and purdah rules were broke as both governments signed the Edinburgh agreement that it would be a fair referendum. David Cameron didnt want Devo Max on the ballot paper Alex Salmond did then when Better Together crapped themselves they offered the extra powers Devo Max , Home Rule BS. That has been the UK government big mistake along with each of the promises they have managed to break like. The NHS would be safe in the UK Steel workers jobs would be safe in the UK. The SNP had to go find a buyer to save those jobs. Same with Ship yards There promise that 13 frigates would be build on the Clyde then turned to just 8 will be build and now they are being delayed in other ways cant afford them. Like you said the SNP pre- Scottish elections said they would put in their manifesto that if Scotland were to face being dragged out of the EU it would be a trigger for a referendum and the Scottish people went to the polling stations and elected the SNP on their 2016 manifesto and give them a mandate to deliver on their manifesto. I would fully support English independence as i believe every country has the right to govern itself and make its own decisions. England choose to leave the EU i respect that but in Scotland we choose to stay. | |||
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" Plus it didnt help when in the last week before the Scottish referendum up popped the famous VOW of extra devolved powers that we are still yet to see. Funny how those extra powers were never on the ballot paper in 2014 its a clear breach and purdah rules were broke as both governments signed the Edinburgh agreement that it would be a fair referendum. " Can you name SPECIFICALLY what was promised in the vow that wasn't delivered? I'm not asking for any vague concepts but specifics? The reason I'm asking is because no one seems able to give an answer, including my local MP. It's just used as another perceived grievance. Also, an academic study carried out after the election showed that the vow didn't make a difference to the final result. | |||
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" Plus it didnt help when in the last week before the Scottish referendum up popped the famous VOW of extra devolved powers that we are still yet to see. Funny how those extra powers were never on the ballot paper in 2014 its a clear breach and purdah rules were broke as both governments signed the Edinburgh agreement that it would be a fair referendum. Can you name SPECIFICALLY what was promised in the vow that wasn't delivered? I'm not asking for any vague concepts but specifics? The reason I'm asking is because no one seems able to give an answer, including my local MP. It's just used as another perceived grievance. Also, an academic study carried out after the election showed that the vow didn't make a difference to the final result." Yes Home Rule Gordon Brown stood on a platform telling the Scottish people that the Labour party was offering Home Rule for Scotland now i maybe wrong but isn't Home Rule the right to self govern and to be as near as federal as can be ? Scotland doesnt have full control over welfare does it ? The Scotland Bill fell way short and the Labour party offered the least amount of powers to be devolved in Scotland they wanted it kept in Westminster thats not Home Rule. Didnt make a difference ? Where was these devolved powers on the ballot paper in 2014 ? Surely the Scottish people had the right to choose Yes , No or extra powers ? Instead of the 3 muppets coming up and offering Scotland these powers that they clearly didnt want to offer Scotland ? | |||
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"Just read the vow Home Rule - Not mentioned Full Control Over Welfare - Not mentioned So, I'm still waiting to here a single thing that was promised in the vow that wasn't delivered. People need to actually read what the signed document said, not what the SNP claim it said. It's very short pretty clear so I don't see where the confustion is." Yes it was like i said Gordon Brown stood there and said Labour party were offering Home Rule for Scotland within the UK and last i checked Labour formed Better Together with the Tories and LibDems Now like i said if am right Home Rule is the right to self govern and be as near to a federal state as can be. Scotland will not have full control over welfare therefore its not Home Rule. Why was devolved powers not on the 2014 Scottish referendum ballot paper am curious to know ? Why offer devolved powers to Scotland if David Cameron didnt want them to be on the ballot paper ? Its a clear breach of purdah rules. | |||
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"So it wasn't actually in the Vow then. Glad we cleared that up. "Am away to have some fun with the wife and watch a movie You enjoy the rest of your evening was nice debating with you. | |||
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"There will be no 2nd referendum. It's empty rhetoric from a party leader who is desperately trying to keep those who favour independence onside. I said the same thing immediately following Brexit when Sturgeon started ranting about another referendum and then....ranting some more and then...ranting some more.....without actually doing anything about it. Look past the headlines on this one and you'll not it's about publishing a bill for 'consultation'. The cult followers will lap this up without looking at what it actually means, which is nothing. Even Brian Taylor at the BBC, who is normally rather fawning when it comes to Sturgeon has it sussed. From his article: "By BBC Scotland political editor Brian Taylor Consultation does not mean decision. It does not mean a date for the ballot. It does not mean action. It does not mean a referendum will definitely happen. It means next to nothing. "" So you are the man eh telling us there will be no referendum you must know more than anyone ,well sorry to burst your unionist bubble but if may tries to take scotland outb the eu and the single market im pretty sure there will be another referendum wether it results in independence no one knows | |||
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"I don't really understand the out of the UK, in the EU stance. I think you either believe in working together (pro-UK, pro-EU) or you believe in going it alone (out of the UK, out of the EU). I also don't get the out of the EU, in the UK stance that i think of lot of English Brexitiers hold. Completely agree, it's counterintuitive to say "better together" when it comes to the EU but not the UK. " All I've learnt from people on both sides of the debates, is that democracy is great as a 'flash in the pan' event. But oh god, if we extend democracy to helping to work out technicalities of large, simple questions, then it's as if we are taking one step forward, two back? Democracy is apparently a horrible thing when people want more than a yes or no question and answer. | |||
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"The publication of a draft bill for consultation so that it *might* be put before the Scottish Parliament at some future, as yet unspecified, date, to enable MSPs to vote on an issue for which they have no devolved powers, hardly does the thread title justice... Besides, it's old news http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/09/06/nicola-sturgeon-prepares-scottish-independence-referendum-bill-t/ (I suspect it's also dog-whistle politics to distract from issues the MSPs are responsible for) Mr ddc Old news?........... She only said it half an hour ago to a rousing reception. I thought that's all she's said since the last referendum. I could be wrong but I thought Teresa May told her a while she could,nt have another referendum. The scottish ppl will decide if theres to be another one not may and if she did try to block it she would be playing into snp hands They cant have one without a yes from Westminster. They can, but it wouldn't be legally binding. Should we listen to the results of non-binding referendums or not? makes me smile
so many Southerners saying what is right and what is not
at the end of the day, YOU have no vote
The people of Scotland will decide
the rest of the UK has no say.
.
now what is it you don't understand about having no say and no vote?
I am quite in favour of an England and Wales referendum on whether we want to keep Scotland. It would only be fair."That is one vote You will never have my friend you can wish, but you will never have the vote, unless you move up to Scotland and live here for a good few years but by then, your opportunity may well have gone | |||
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"The publication of a draft bill for consultation so that it *might* be put before the Scottish Parliament at some future, as yet unspecified, date, to enable MSPs to vote on an issue for which they have no devolved powers, hardly does the thread title justice... Besides, it's old news http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/09/06/nicola-sturgeon-prepares-scottish-independence-referendum-bill-t/ (I suspect it's also dog-whistle politics to distract from issues the MSPs are responsible for) Mr ddc Old news?........... She only said it half an hour ago to a rousing reception. I thought that's all she's said since the last referendum. I could be wrong but I thought Teresa May told her a while she could,nt have another referendum. The scottish ppl will decide if theres to be another one not may and if she did try to block it she would be playing into snp hands They cant have one without a yes from Westminster. They can, but it wouldn't be legally binding. Should we listen to the results of non-binding referendums or not? makes me smile
so many Southerners saying what is right and what is not
at the end of the day, YOU have no vote
The people of Scotland will decide
the rest of the UK has no say.
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now what is it you don't understand about having no say and no vote?"Got to agree with above. It seems more people south of the border are more concerned of what will happen. | |||
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"That and hopefully a harsh winter will level out the electorate "As in kill off the oldie 'no's'? Harsh lol | |||
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"I hope they get it this time, the Union is finished, Sturgeon and her ilk have made sure of this. The fact is that the Reds on the other side of Hadrians Wall will forever hold us back. So let Hollyrood have it, and the EU too, if they'll have them. Taking the SNP out out Westminster would definitely be a step forward for the Britain. Bye bye Scotland. " Your understanding of the reason for the rise in indy nationalism is woeful. | |||
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"That and hopefully a harsh winter will level out the electorate
As in kill off the oldie 'no's'? Harsh lol"My parents are 89 & 90, both voted strongly for independence and strongly wish to pass away in an independent Scotland, not all oldies vote no, My Brother has just retired and also strong fighter for independence | |||
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"Look past the headlines on this one and you'll not it's about publishing a bill for 'consultation'. The cult followers will lap this up without looking at what it actually means, which is nothing. Even Brian Taylor at the BBC, who is normally rather fawning when it comes to Sturgeon has it sussed. From his article: "By BBC Scotland political editor Brian Taylor Consultation does not mean decision. It does not mean a date for the ballot. It does not mean action. It does not mean a referendum will definitely happen. It means next to nothing. "" So....The journalists have whipped up a story over nothing which the ignorant ( in the very truest of that word's meaning), have decided constitutes what it's not- an immediate path to independence. WHY do people not understand the word CONSULTATION? Would save such a lot of the empty, stupid and misinformed rhetoric above. | |||
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"Nicola Sturgeon: I can confirm today that the Independence Referendum Bill will be published for consultation next week." Really excited by it! I am hoping that the economic argument can be more convincingly made this time-dispite the fall in oil prices. | |||
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"Should be no surprise to anyone . Scottish nationalist party, there is a clue in the name of what the end goal is ! It was clearly stated in the recent manifesto that should Scotland be dragged out the EU against our will (65/35) then this would be explored . To my mind they yes campaign is in a far stronger position with a higher starting support, learning from the mistakes of last time such as having a solid currency answer and better economic plan . Clear the uncertainty. In real terms they have to convince approx 250k voters to swing and given all the broken promises and lies from the previous no campaign it shouldn't be to difficult in my opinion. That and hopefully a harsh winter will level out the electorate "Been listening to some really good pro independence podcasts such as Feisty Productions and The Scottish Independence podcast. A lesson I take away is that SNP should not assume that those who voted for independence will so again, and instead to begin the argument from ground zero, so to speak. This means that should not be just about convicing approximately 250,000 to vote 'yes', but rather in not taking any 'yes' vote as certain. | |||
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"Nicola Sturgeon: I can confirm today that the Independence Referendum Bill will be published for consultation next week. Really excited by it! I am hoping that the economic argument can be more convincingly made this time-dispite the fall in oil prices. " I am not sure that the economic argument will come into it. It didn't make any difference to Leave voters in the Brexit referendum either because they genuinely felt that the economy would not crash outside of the EU or they were prepared to risk and accept uncontrollable economic damage brought about by external, third party actions. The Scottish may be prepared to accept that they will become a much higher taxed population. The Norweigans accept very high taxes so it is not an impossible scenario. It might be a bitter pill for Scots to go overnight from being "relatively" low taxed to being highly taxed but it is entirely possible. | |||
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" So Scotland can stay in the EU, and England and Wales can leave (NI might want to stay too given the Good Friday Agreement), then everyone is happy." A thousand times no. Scotland is not a member of the EU...so cannot stay in. The UK is leaving. Then Scotland would have to gain independence (unlikely). And then apply to join EU. A process which takes at least 7 years Other countries (including Turkey) are ahead of them in the queue Spain will veto it (and others??) Indi Scotland would need to have a much lower debt:GDP ratio....very unlikely Would have to accept euro as currency...even the SNP have said they want to keep Stirling! It is all just pie in the sky and foot stomping to detract from the SNP record which is abysmal. | |||
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" So Scotland can stay in the EU, and England and Wales can leave (NI might want to stay too given the Good Friday Agreement), then everyone is happy. A thousand times no. Scotland is not a member of the EU...so cannot stay in. The UK is leaving. Then Scotland would have to gain independence (unlikely). And then apply to join EU. A process which takes at least 7 years Other countries (including Turkey) are ahead of them in the queue Spain will veto it (and others??) Indi Scotland would need to have a much lower debt:GDP ratio....very unlikely Would have to accept euro as currency...even the SNP have said they want to keep Stirling! It is all just pie in the sky and foot stomping to detract from the SNP record which is abysmal." Agree 100% | |||
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" So Scotland can stay in the EU, and England and Wales can leave (NI might want to stay too given the Good Friday Agreement), then everyone is happy. A thousand times no. Scotland is not a member of the EU...so cannot stay in. The UK is leaving. Then Scotland would have to gain independence (unlikely). And then apply to join EU. A process which takes at least 7 years Other countries (including Turkey) are ahead of them in the queue Spain will veto it (and others??) Indi Scotland would need to have a much lower debt:GDP ratio....very unlikely Would have to accept euro as currency...even the SNP have said they want to keep Stirling! It is all just pie in the sky and foot stomping to detract from the SNP record which is abysmal. Agree 100% "lol plenty English Opinions, but again, remember you have absolutely NO say and NO vote. the people of Scotland will decide, now get back to work. | |||
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" So Scotland can stay in the EU, and England and Wales can leave (NI might want to stay too given the Good Friday Agreement), then everyone is happy. A thousand times no. Scotland is not a member of the EU...so cannot stay in. The UK is leaving. Then Scotland would have to gain independence (unlikely). And then apply to join EU. A process which takes at least 7 years Other countries (including Turkey) are ahead of them in the queue Spain will veto it (and others??) Indi Scotland would need to have a much lower debt:GDP ratio....very unlikely Would have to accept euro as currency...even the SNP have said they want to keep Stirling! It is all just pie in the sky and foot stomping to detract from the SNP record which is abysmal. Agree 100%
lol plenty English Opinions, but again, remember you have absolutely NO say and NO vote.
the people of Scotland will decide, now get back to work. "So you don't think it will take an act of Parliament? | |||
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"But actually that is also totally wrong. The UK government has to give permission for an independence referendum...that's the legal position. They had to ask for, and be granted that permission by Cameron last time. May has so far indicated no...." | |||
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"Radio 2, today (Friday) 1pm have a listen "Why who,s on? | |||
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"I really do think that the English need to stay out of it this time round. The English interventions in 2014 are still raw in Scotland and anyone south of the border who values the Union might be best asdvised to keep quiet this time around and let the Scots decide for themselves. " what about those Englanders that live in Scotland | |||
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"I really do think that the English need to stay out of it this time round. The English interventions in 2014 are still raw in Scotland and anyone south of the border who values the Union might be best asdvised to keep quiet this time around and let the Scots decide for themselves. what about those Englanders that live in Scotland "Define 'Scot' then. Please, tell us what you define as a "Scot". a. Born in Scotland? b. Born in Scotland of 1 or more non Scottish born parents? c. Born outwith Scotland, but of 2 scots born parents. d. Born in Scotland of two non scots born, but with 1 or more scots born grand parents e.. f... g.... ad infinitum. Or is a "Scot" only a true "Scot" when they vote the way the "party" wants? Those that don't, being non true scots, uncle jocks, quizlings or just honest to goodness "traitors" of course. | |||
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"I really do think that the English need to stay out of it this time round. The English interventions in 2014 are still raw in Scotland and anyone south of the border who values the Union might be best asdvised to keep quiet this time around and let the Scots decide for themselves. what about those Englanders that live in Scotland
Define 'Scot' then.
Please, tell us what you define as a "Scot".
a. Born in Scotland?
b. Born in Scotland of 1 or more non Scottish born parents?
c. Born outwith Scotland, but of 2 scots born parents.
d. Born in Scotland of two non scots born, but with 1 or more scots born grand parents
e..
f...
g....
ad infinitum.
Or is a "Scot" only a true "Scot" when they vote the way the "party" wants?
Those that don't, being non true scots, uncle jocks, quizlings or just honest to goodness "traitors" of course."You can vote in the Scottish referendum only if you are resident in Scotland that includes, foreign citizens from the European Union and Commonwealth and ofcourse these foreign Englanders who sell up their little English homes so they can buy a luxury pad in Scotland | |||
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"I really do think that the English need to stay out of it this time round. The English interventions in 2014 are still raw in Scotland and anyone south of the border who values the Union might be best asdvised to keep quiet this time around and let the Scots decide for themselves. what about those Englanders that live in Scotland
Define 'Scot' then.
Please, tell us what you define as a "Scot".
a. Born in Scotland?
b. Born in Scotland of 1 or more non Scottish born parents?
c. Born outwith Scotland, but of 2 scots born parents.
d. Born in Scotland of two non scots born, but with 1 or more scots born grand parents
e..
f...
g....
ad infinitum.
Or is a "Scot" only a true "Scot" when they vote the way the "party" wants?
Those that don't, being non true scots, uncle jocks, quizlings or just honest to goodness "traitors" of course.
You can vote in the Scottish referendum only if you are resident in Scotland
that includes, foreign citizens from the European Union and Commonwealth and ofcourse these foreign Englanders who sell up their little English homes so they can buy a luxury pad in Scotland
"Far more migration into England than the other way round.....but if you want to force an exchange I'd GLADLY sign up to that, the sooner the better | |||
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"I really do think that the English need to stay out of it this time round. The English interventions in 2014 are still raw in Scotland and anyone south of the border who values the Union might be best asdvised to keep quiet this time around and let the Scots decide for themselves. what about those Englanders that live in Scotland
Define 'Scot' then.
Please, tell us what you define as a "Scot".
a. Born in Scotland?
b. Born in Scotland of 1 or more non Scottish born parents?
c. Born outwith Scotland, but of 2 scots born parents.
d. Born in Scotland of two non scots born, but with 1 or more scots born grand parents
e..
f...
g....
ad infinitum.
Or is a "Scot" only a true "Scot" when they vote the way the "party" wants?
Those that don't, being non true scots, uncle jocks, quizlings or just honest to goodness "traitors" of course.
You can vote in the Scottish referendum only if you are resident in Scotland
that includes, foreign citizens from the European Union and Commonwealth and ofcourse these foreign Englanders who sell up their little English homes so they can buy a luxury pad in Scotland
Far more migration into England than the other way round.....but if you want to force an exchange I'd GLADLY sign up to that, the sooner the better"Why would I want more people up in Scotland, I bought acres of land to keep people out. Although we do have the right to roam in Scotland, god help anyone who sets foot on my land | |||
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"Nicola Sturgeon: I can confirm today that the Independence Referendum Bill will be published for consultation next week. Really excited by it! I am hoping that the economic argument can be more convincingly made this time-dispite the fall in oil prices. I am not sure that the economic argument will come into it. It didn't make any difference to Leave voters in the Brexit referendum either because they genuinely felt that the economy would not crash outside of the EU or they were prepared to risk and accept uncontrollable economic damage brought about by external, third party actions. The Scottish may be prepared to accept that they will become a much higher taxed population. The Norweigans accept very high taxes so it is not an impossible scenario. It might be a bitter pill for Scots to go overnight from being "relatively" low taxed to being highly taxed but it is entirely possible." The financial arguments around Brexit are more complex than those around Independence. The latter is more clear cut and easier for people to understand. | |||
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"There will be no 2nd referendum. It's empty rhetoric from a party leader who is desperately trying to keep those who favour independence onside. I said the same thing immediately following Brexit when Sturgeon started ranting about another referendum and then....ranting some more and then...ranting some more.....without actually doing anything about it. Look past the headlines on this one and you'll not it's about publishing a bill for 'consultation'. The cult followers will lap this up without looking at what it actually means, which is nothing. Even Brian Taylor at the BBC, who is normally rather fawning when it comes to Sturgeon has it sussed. From his article: "By BBC Scotland political editor Brian Taylor Consultation does not mean decision. It does not mean a date for the ballot. It does not mean action. It does not mean a referendum will definitely happen. It means next to nothing. " So you are the man eh telling us there will be no referendum you must know more than anyone ,well sorry to burst your unionist bubble but if may tries to take scotland outb the eu and the single market im pretty sure there will be another referendum wether it results in independence no one knows " Yes, and I've been right so far and will continue to be right (on this subject anyway). There are a few reasons for this but I'll give you one of the big ones right away. Sturgeon is a very timid politician. She may talk a good game but her actions prove otherwise (see failure to use new tax raising powers, failure to do away with the 'hated' council tax after promising to in the past etc). Anyway, the point is she has repeatedly let it be known that she wants 60% support for independence before calling a referendum and she knows she's nowhere near that. She also knows losing this one will not only kill independece for a long time but will also end her career as first minister. And she definitely doesn't want to give up that position. | |||
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"There will be no 2nd referendum. It's empty rhetoric from a party leader who is desperately trying to keep those who favour independence onside. I said the same thing immediately following Brexit when Sturgeon started ranting about another referendum and then....ranting some more and then...ranting some more.....without actually doing anything about it. Look past the headlines on this one and you'll not it's about publishing a bill for 'consultation'. The cult followers will lap this up without looking at what it actually means, which is nothing. Even Brian Taylor at the BBC, who is normally rather fawning when it comes to Sturgeon has it sussed. From his article: "By BBC Scotland political editor Brian Taylor Consultation does not mean decision. It does not mean a date for the ballot. It does not mean action. It does not mean a referendum will definitely happen. It means next to nothing. " So you are the man eh telling us there will be no referendum you must know more than anyone ,well sorry to burst your unionist bubble but if may tries to take scotland outb the eu and the single market im pretty sure there will be another referendum wether it results in independence no one knows Yes, and I've been right so far and will continue to be right (on this subject anyway). There are a few reasons for this but I'll give you one of the big ones right away. Sturgeon is a very timid politician. She may talk a good game but her actions prove otherwise (see failure to use new tax raising powers, failure to do away with the 'hated' council tax after promising to in the past etc). Anyway, the point is she has repeatedly let it be known that she wants 60% support for independence before calling a referendum and she knows she's nowhere near that. She also knows losing this one will not only kill independece for a long time but will also end her career as first minister. And she definitely doesn't want to give up that position. " See the thing is you have an opinion which you are entitled too but really you dont know what will happen so its all just guessing ,my opinion is that there will be another referendum but unlike you i dont proclaim to know for certain | |||
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"There will be no 2nd referendum. It's empty rhetoric from a party leader who is desperately trying to keep those who favour independence onside. I said the same thing immediately following Brexit when Sturgeon started ranting about another referendum and then....ranting some more and then...ranting some more.....without actually doing anything about it. Look past the headlines on this one and you'll not it's about publishing a bill for 'consultation'. The cult followers will lap this up without looking at what it actually means, which is nothing. Even Brian Taylor at the BBC, who is normally rather fawning when it comes to Sturgeon has it sussed. From his article: "By BBC Scotland political editor Brian Taylor Consultation does not mean decision. It does not mean a date for the ballot. It does not mean action. It does not mean a referendum will definitely happen. It means next to nothing. " So you are the man eh telling us there will be no referendum you must know more than anyone ,well sorry to burst your unionist bubble but if may tries to take scotland outb the eu and the single market im pretty sure there will be another referendum wether it results in independence no one knows Yes, and I've been right so far and will continue to be right (on this subject anyway). There are a few reasons for this but I'll give you one of the big ones right away. Sturgeon is a very timid politician. She may talk a good game but her actions prove otherwise (see failure to use new tax raising powers, failure to do away with the 'hated' council tax after promising to in the past etc). Anyway, the point is she has repeatedly let it be known that she wants 60% support for independence before calling a referendum and she knows she's nowhere near that. She also knows losing this one will not only kill independece for a long time but will also end her career as first minister. And she definitely doesn't want to give up that position. " tend to disagree with everything you say gary | |||
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"The publication of a draft bill for consultation so that it *might* be put before the Scottish Parliament at some future, as yet unspecified, date, to enable MSPs to vote on an issue for which they have no devolved powers, hardly does the thread title justice... Besides, it's old news http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/09/06/nicola-sturgeon-prepares-scottish-independence-referendum-bill-t/ (I suspect it's also dog-whistle politics to distract from issues the MSPs are responsible for) Mr ddc Old news?........... She only said it half an hour ago to a rousing reception. I thought that's all she's said since the last referendum. I could be wrong but I thought Teresa May told her a while she could,nt have another referendum. The scottish ppl will decide if theres to be another one not may and if she did try to block it she would be playing into snp hands They cant have one without a yes from Westminster. They can, but it wouldn't be legally binding. Should we listen to the results of non-binding referendums or not? " Do you think legally binding referendums should stand? | |||
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"There will be no 2nd referendum. It's empty rhetoric from a party leader who is desperately trying to keep those who favour independence onside. I said the same thing immediately following Brexit when Sturgeon started ranting about another referendum and then....ranting some more and then...ranting some more.....without actually doing anything about it. Look past the headlines on this one and you'll not it's about publishing a bill for 'consultation'. The cult followers will lap this up without looking at what it actually means, which is nothing. Even Brian Taylor at the BBC, who is normally rather fawning when it comes to Sturgeon has it sussed. From his article: "By BBC Scotland political editor Brian Taylor Consultation does not mean decision. It does not mean a date for the ballot. It does not mean action. It does not mean a referendum will definitely happen. It means next to nothing. " So you are the man eh telling us there will be no referendum you must know more than anyone ,well sorry to burst your unionist bubble but if may tries to take scotland outb the eu and the single market im pretty sure there will be another referendum wether it results in independence no one knows Yes, and I've been right so far and will continue to be right (on this subject anyway). There are a few reasons for this but I'll give you one of the big ones right away. Sturgeon is a very timid politician. She may talk a good game but her actions prove otherwise (see failure to use new tax raising powers, failure to do away with the 'hated' council tax after promising to in the past etc). Anyway, the point is she has repeatedly let it be known that she wants 60% support for independence before calling a referendum and she knows she's nowhere near that. She also knows losing this one will not only kill independece for a long time but will also end her career as first minister. And she definitely doesn't want to give up that position. See the thing is you have an opinion which you are entitled too but really you dont know what will happen so its all just guessing ,my opinion is that there will be another referendum but unlike you i dont proclaim to know for certain " It's also formed by what's going on in the party. There are senior members who don't want a referendum now. I posted on this forum immediately following Brexit that we would see an awful lot of talk/ threats etc about an idependence referendum without actually having one and that is EXACTLY what has happened and continues to happen. It's all being done to keep the faithful, who are champing at the bit, onside. We can come back here in a few months or whenever but I guarantee nothing will change. | |||
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" tend to disagree with everything you say gary" I'm here to discuss politics. You're here to post song lyrics and try to bait English posters on the thread (a not uncommon trait among SNP supporters). I'll do my thing and you do yours. | |||
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"There will be no 2nd referendum. It's empty rhetoric from a party leader who is desperately trying to keep those who favour independence onside. I said the same thing immediately following Brexit when Sturgeon started ranting about another referendum and then....ranting some more and then...ranting some more.....without actually doing anything about it. Look past the headlines on this one and you'll not it's about publishing a bill for 'consultation'. The cult followers will lap this up without looking at what it actually means, which is nothing. Even Brian Taylor at the BBC, who is normally rather fawning when it comes to Sturgeon has it sussed. From his article: "By BBC Scotland political editor Brian Taylor Consultation does not mean decision. It does not mean a date for the ballot. It does not mean action. It does not mean a referendum will definitely happen. It means next to nothing. " So you are the man eh telling us there will be no referendum you must know more than anyone ,well sorry to burst your unionist bubble but if may tries to take scotland outb the eu and the single market im pretty sure there will be another referendum wether it results in independence no one knows Yes, and I've been right so far and will continue to be right (on this subject anyway). There are a few reasons for this but I'll give you one of the big ones right away. Sturgeon is a very timid politician. She may talk a good game but her actions prove otherwise (see failure to use new tax raising powers, failure to do away with the 'hated' council tax after promising to in the past etc). Anyway, the point is she has repeatedly let it be known that she wants 60% support for independence before calling a referendum and she knows she's nowhere near that. She also knows losing this one will not only kill independece for a long time but will also end her career as first minister. And she definitely doesn't want to give up that position. See the thing is you have an opinion which you are entitled too but really you dont know what will happen so its all just guessing ,my opinion is that there will be another referendum but unlike you i dont proclaim to know for certain It's also formed by what's going on in the party. There are senior members who don't want a referendum now. I posted on this forum immediately following Brexit that we would see an awful lot of talk/ threats etc about an idependence referendum without actually having one and that is EXACTLY what has happened and continues to happen. It's all being done to keep the faithful, who are champing at the bit, onside. We can come back here in a few months or whenever but I guarantee nothing will change." Thats the thing you cant guarantee anything as i said its only your opinion ,there was never going to be a referendum right away the snp said it would wait and see what sort of deal brexit brings think we will all just have to wait and see what happens | |||
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"Nicola Sturgeon: I can confirm today that the Independence Referendum Bill will be published for consultation next week." Maybe Nicola Sturgeom should have a reality check instead of wasting tax payers money. Most Scottish people are financially astute to realise that they are dependent on the UK tax payers money and would never vote to become independent . | |||
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"There will be no 2nd referendum. It's empty rhetoric from a party leader who is desperately trying to keep those who favour independence onside. I said the same thing immediately following Brexit when Sturgeon started ranting about another referendum and then....ranting some more and then...ranting some more.....without actually doing anything about it. Look past the headlines on this one and you'll not it's about publishing a bill for 'consultation'. The cult followers will lap this up without looking at what it actually means, which is nothing. Even Brian Taylor at the BBC, who is normally rather fawning when it comes to Sturgeon has it sussed. From his article: "By BBC Scotland political editor Brian Taylor Consultation does not mean decision. It does not mean a date for the ballot. It does not mean action. It does not mean a referendum will definitely happen. It means next to nothing. " So you are the man eh telling us there will be no referendum you must know more than anyone ,well sorry to burst your unionist bubble but if may tries to take scotland outb the eu and the single market im pretty sure there will be another referendum wether it results in independence no one knows Yes, and I've been right so far and will continue to be right (on this subject anyway). There are a few reasons for this but I'll give you one of the big ones right away. Sturgeon is a very timid politician. She may talk a good game but her actions prove otherwise (see failure to use new tax raising powers, failure to do away with the 'hated' council tax after promising to in the past etc). Anyway, the point is she has repeatedly let it be known that she wants 60% support for independence before calling a referendum and she knows she's nowhere near that. She also knows losing this one will not only kill independece for a long time but will also end her career as first minister. And she definitely doesn't want to give up that position. See the thing is you have an opinion which you are entitled too but really you dont know what will happen so its all just guessing ,my opinion is that there will be another referendum but unlike you i dont proclaim to know for certain It's also formed by what's going on in the party. There are senior members who don't want a referendum now. I posted on this forum immediately following Brexit that we would see an awful lot of talk/ threats etc about an idependence referendum without actually having one and that is EXACTLY what has happened and continues to happen. It's all being done to keep the faithful, who are champing at the bit, onside. We can come back here in a few months or whenever but I guarantee nothing will change. Thats the thing you cant guarantee anything as i said its only your opinion ,there was never going to be a referendum right away the snp said it would wait and see what sort of deal brexit brings think we will all just have to wait and see what happens" I'm sorry but none of Sturgeon's initial responses were about waiting to see what sort of deal Brexit will bring. That talk only came later when the polls revealed there wasn't a big jump in support for independence after the EU referendum (there was a small jump after it but it went back down again). Sturgeon really, really didn't want the UK to vote out as she knew it backed her into a corner with regards to having another indy referendum, one she knows she won't win. The only way for her to save face here is for her to call for one and then have it rejected by the UK government but in the meantime it's all about keeping everyone going in the belief that the referendum isn't long away, just wait a bit longer, a bit longer, a bit etc etc. Btw I've backed this up by splashing some cash on it on Betfair. Unfortunately the bookies see things the same as me so I can only get 1/3  | |||
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I might not agree with a lot of what the SNP say but God do they deliver what they have to say in a good way. Hat's off. | |||
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"Some excellent and progressive speeches coming out of the SNP conference. Overwhelming vote to legalise medical use of that thing that we can't even mention on Fabswingers
I might not agree with a lot of what the SNP say but God do they deliver what they have to say in a good way. Hat's off."They talk left (wing) and act right (wing). There's no denying their presentation is slick though. | |||
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"There will be no 2nd referendum. It's empty rhetoric from a party leader who is desperately trying to keep those who favour independence onside. I said the same thing immediately following Brexit when Sturgeon started ranting about another referendum and then....ranting some more and then...ranting some more.....without actually doing anything about it. Look past the headlines on this one and you'll not it's about publishing a bill for 'consultation'. The cult followers will lap this up without looking at what it actually means, which is nothing. Even Brian Taylor at the BBC, who is normally rather fawning when it comes to Sturgeon has it sussed. From his article: "By BBC Scotland political editor Brian Taylor Consultation does not mean decision. It does not mean a date for the ballot. It does not mean action. It does not mean a referendum will definitely happen. It means next to nothing. " So you are the man eh telling us there will be no referendum you must know more than anyone ,well sorry to burst your unionist bubble but if may tries to take scotland outb the eu and the single market im pretty sure there will be another referendum wether it results in independence no one knows Yes, and I've been right so far and will continue to be right (on this subject anyway). There are a few reasons for this but I'll give you one of the big ones right away. Sturgeon is a very timid politician. She may talk a good game but her actions prove otherwise (see failure to use new tax raising powers, failure to do away with the 'hated' council tax after promising to in the past etc). Anyway, the point is she has repeatedly let it be known that she wants 60% support for independence before calling a referendum and she knows she's nowhere near that. She also knows losing this one will not only kill independece for a long time but will also end her career as first minister. And she definitely doesn't want to give up that position. See the thing is you have an opinion which you are entitled too but really you dont know what will happen so its all just guessing ,my opinion is that there will be another referendum but unlike you i dont proclaim to know for certain It's also formed by what's going on in the party. There are senior members who don't want a referendum now. I posted on this forum immediately following Brexit that we would see an awful lot of talk/ threats etc about an idependence referendum without actually having one and that is EXACTLY what has happened and continues to happen. It's all being done to keep the faithful, who are champing at the bit, onside. We can come back here in a few months or whenever but I guarantee nothing will change. Thats the thing you cant guarantee anything as i said its only your opinion ,there was never going to be a referendum right away the snp said it would wait and see what sort of deal brexit brings think we will all just have to wait and see what happens I'm sorry but none of Sturgeon's initial responses were about waiting to see what sort of deal Brexit will bring. That talk only came later when the polls revealed there wasn't a big jump in support for independence after the EU referendum (there was a small jump after it but it went back down again). Sturgeon really, really didn't want the UK to vote out as she knew it backed her into a corner with regards to having another indy referendum, one she knows she won't win. The only way for her to save face here is for her to call for one and then have it rejected by the UK government but in the meantime it's all about keeping everyone going in the belief that the referendum isn't long away, just wait a bit longer, a bit longer, a bit etc etc. Btw I've backed this up by splashing some cash on it on Betfair. Unfortunately the bookies see things the same as me so I can only get 1/3 "There you go again letting us all know that what you say is all that matters saying that she knows she cant win another referendum when actually no one really knows so you are guessing again,i know quite a few ppl who voted no but would vote yes now we will all just have to wait and see what happens | |||
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"There will be no 2nd referendum. It's empty rhetoric from a party leader who is desperately trying to keep those who favour independence onside. I said the same thing immediately following Brexit when Sturgeon started ranting about another referendum and then....ranting some more and then...ranting some more.....without actually doing anything about it. Look past the headlines on this one and you'll not it's about publishing a bill for 'consultation'. The cult followers will lap this up without looking at what it actually means, which is nothing. Even Brian Taylor at the BBC, who is normally rather fawning when it comes to Sturgeon has it sussed. From his article: "By BBC Scotland political editor Brian Taylor Consultation does not mean decision. It does not mean a date for the ballot. It does not mean action. It does not mean a referendum will definitely happen. It means next to nothing. " So you are the man eh telling us there will be no referendum you must know more than anyone ,well sorry to burst your unionist bubble but if may tries to take scotland outb the eu and the single market im pretty sure there will be another referendum wether it results in independence no one knows Yes, and I've been right so far and will continue to be right (on this subject anyway). There are a few reasons for this but I'll give you one of the big ones right away. Sturgeon is a very timid politician. She may talk a good game but her actions prove otherwise (see failure to use new tax raising powers, failure to do away with the 'hated' council tax after promising to in the past etc). Anyway, the point is she has repeatedly let it be known that she wants 60% support for independence before calling a referendum and she knows she's nowhere near that. She also knows losing this one will not only kill independece for a long time but will also end her career as first minister. And she definitely doesn't want to give up that position. See the thing is you have an opinion which you are entitled too but really you dont know what will happen so its all just guessing ,my opinion is that there will be another referendum but unlike you i dont proclaim to know for certain It's also formed by what's going on in the party. There are senior members who don't want a referendum now. I posted on this forum immediately following Brexit that we would see an awful lot of talk/ threats etc about an idependence referendum without actually having one and that is EXACTLY what has happened and continues to happen. It's all being done to keep the faithful, who are champing at the bit, onside. We can come back here in a few months or whenever but I guarantee nothing will change. Thats the thing you cant guarantee anything as i said its only your opinion ,there was never going to be a referendum right away the snp said it would wait and see what sort of deal brexit brings think we will all just have to wait and see what happens I'm sorry but none of Sturgeon's initial responses were about waiting to see what sort of deal Brexit will bring. That talk only came later when the polls revealed there wasn't a big jump in support for independence after the EU referendum (there was a small jump after it but it went back down again). Sturgeon really, really didn't want the UK to vote out as she knew it backed her into a corner with regards to having another indy referendum, one she knows she won't win. The only way for her to save face here is for her to call for one and then have it rejected by the UK government but in the meantime it's all about keeping everyone going in the belief that the referendum isn't long away, just wait a bit longer, a bit longer, a bit etc etc. Btw I've backed this up by splashing some cash on it on Betfair. Unfortunately the bookies see things the same as me so I can only get 1/3
There you go again letting us all know that what you say is all that matters saying that she knows she cant win another referendum when actually no one really knows so you are guessing again,i know quite a few ppl who voted no but would vote yes now we will all just have to wait and see what happens "Not really. I tend to take an evidence based approach. The polls, and there are many of them, show that nothing has changed. Sure polls can be out but when you continually have them showing the same thing again and again then you can pretty much take that to be the case. If the SNP thought they would win, then they'd call for one ASAP. But they haven't... | |||
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"There will be no 2nd referendum. It's empty rhetoric from a party leader who is desperately trying to keep those who favour independence onside. I said the same thing immediately following Brexit when Sturgeon started ranting about another referendum and then....ranting some more and then...ranting some more.....without actually doing anything about it. Look past the headlines on this one and you'll not it's about publishing a bill for 'consultation'. The cult followers will lap this up without looking at what it actually means, which is nothing. Even Brian Taylor at the BBC, who is normally rather fawning when it comes to Sturgeon has it sussed. From his article: "By BBC Scotland political editor Brian Taylor Consultation does not mean decision. It does not mean a date for the ballot. It does not mean action. It does not mean a referendum will definitely happen. It means next to nothing. " So you are the man eh telling us there will be no referendum you must know more than anyone ,well sorry to burst your unionist bubble but if may tries to take scotland outb the eu and the single market im pretty sure there will be another referendum wether it results in independence no one knows Yes, and I've been right so far and will continue to be right (on this subject anyway). There are a few reasons for this but I'll give you one of the big ones right away. Sturgeon is a very timid politician. She may talk a good game but her actions prove otherwise (see failure to use new tax raising powers, failure to do away with the 'hated' council tax after promising to in the past etc). Anyway, the point is she has repeatedly let it be known that she wants 60% support for independence before calling a referendum and she knows she's nowhere near that. She also knows losing this one will not only kill independece for a long time but will also end her career as first minister. And she definitely doesn't want to give up that position. See the thing is you have an opinion which you are entitled too but really you dont know what will happen so its all just guessing ,my opinion is that there will be another referendum but unlike you i dont proclaim to know for certain It's also formed by what's going on in the party. There are senior members who don't want a referendum now. I posted on this forum immediately following Brexit that we would see an awful lot of talk/ threats etc about an idependence referendum without actually having one and that is EXACTLY what has happened and continues to happen. It's all being done to keep the faithful, who are champing at the bit, onside. We can come back here in a few months or whenever but I guarantee nothing will change. Thats the thing you cant guarantee anything as i said its only your opinion ,there was never going to be a referendum right away the snp said it would wait and see what sort of deal brexit brings think we will all just have to wait and see what happens I'm sorry but none of Sturgeon's initial responses were about waiting to see what sort of deal Brexit will bring. That talk only came later when the polls revealed there wasn't a big jump in support for independence after the EU referendum (there was a small jump after it but it went back down again). Sturgeon really, really didn't want the UK to vote out as she knew it backed her into a corner with regards to having another indy referendum, one she knows she won't win. The only way for her to save face here is for her to call for one and then have it rejected by the UK government but in the meantime it's all about keeping everyone going in the belief that the referendum isn't long away, just wait a bit longer, a bit longer, a bit etc etc. Btw I've backed this up by splashing some cash on it on Betfair. Unfortunately the bookies see things the same as me so I can only get 1/3
There you go again letting us all know that what you say is all that matters saying that she knows she cant win another referendum when actually no one really knows so you are guessing again,i know quite a few ppl who voted no but would vote yes now we will all just have to wait and see what happens
Not really. I tend to take an evidence based approach. The polls, and there are many of them, show that nothing has changed. Sure polls can be out but when you continually have them showing the same thing again and again then you can pretty much take that to be the case. If the SNP thought they would win, then they'd call for one ASAP. But they haven't..."Fool on you if you believe the polls, how many on here actually tell the truth and correctly answer YOUGOV and other polls? not only are they gathering election information on the way you vote, but they also gather full information on yourself if you are gullible enough to pass on information about yourself. Many people who take part in yougov and other polls pass on false information you only need to look at the Westminster election and EU referendum to see how far out of touch these polls are. Still, some people always think they need an expert to steer them in right direction | |||
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"Some excellent and progressive speeches coming out of the SNP conference. Overwhelming vote to legalise medical use of that thing that we can't even mention on Fabswingers
I might not agree with a lot of what the SNP say but God do they deliver what they have to say in a good way. Hat's off."Delegates at the SNP conference have overwhelmingly backed a motion in favour of decriminalising "the word we cant say" for medical use. Party members want the UK government to devolve power over the class B drug to the Scottish Parliament but at the end of the day, its still Westminster that has the overall say. | |||
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