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"They just report them to the 'internet' then people can claim there's been a rise in hate crimes or reported hate crimes. It's just a political agenda and bollocks. As usual" But then those reports would,nt show on an official account of how many reports had been made therefore would,nt contribute to a rise in hate crimes. | |||
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"only the police can assess and determine if a crime has been commented and then if warranted, court action" Agreed cant think why he would say something like that. | |||
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"only the police can assess and determine if a crime has been commented and then if warranted, court action Agreed cant think why he would say something like that. " Perhaps he is looking for Muslim brownie points & votes (if he did say it) | |||
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"They just report them to the 'internet' then people can claim there's been a rise in hate crimes or reported hate crimes. It's just a political agenda and bollocks. As usual But then those reports would,nt show on an official account of how many reports had been made therefore would,nt contribute to a rise in hate crimes. " not official no, but people believe what they read and what they want to believe. Official figures are simply a political agenda now too. Nick a Muslims bike and it's not bike theft it's a hate crime | |||
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"only the police can assess and determine if a crime has been commented and then if warranted, court action Agreed cant think why he would say something like that. Perhaps he is looking for Muslim brownie points & votes (if he did say it)" Its on MSN internet news maybe your just trying to keep his name in the limelight. | |||
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"In other words, now, you've nicked the bike not because you like the bike but because you hate the Muslim" That sounds so much like someone else we know.  | |||
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"It appears Andy Burnham thinks Muslims should be able to "by-pass" the police when reporting hate crimes but who could they report them to if not the police and why just Muslims. I think it would just divide people even more. What do you think. " I think he's one of the most repulsive human beings in politics today. A true slim ball that would serve anyone that gave him more power or a better position. His words have no meaning since he'll say anything to get elected. Other than that he's lovely. | |||
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"It appears Andy Burnham thinks Muslims should be able to "by-pass" the police when reporting hate crimes but who could they report them to if not the police and why just Muslims. I think it would just divide people even more. What do you think. " I think that is probably a headline and not really what he said when put in context. Burnham, like Corbyn is a decent man. | |||
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"It appears Andy Burnham thinks Muslims should be able to "by-pass" the police when reporting hate crimes but who could they report them to if not the police and why just Muslims. I think it would just divide people even more. What do you think. I think that is probably a headline and not really what he said when put in context. Burnham, like Corbyn is a decent man." Like that Stalin chap, bit misunderstood right? | |||
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"It appears Andy Burnham thinks Muslims should be able to "by-pass" the police when reporting hate crimes but who could they report them to if not the police and why just Muslims. I think it would just divide people even more. What do you think. I think he's one of the most repulsive human beings in politics today. A true slim ball that would serve anyone that gave him more power or a better position. His words have no meaning since he'll say anything to get elected. Other than that he's lovely. "  | |||
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"It appears Andy Burnham thinks Muslims should be able to "by-pass" the police when reporting hate crimes but who could they report them to if not the police and why just Muslims. I think it would just divide people even more. What do you think. I think that is probably a headline and not really what he said when put in context. Burnham, like Corbyn is a decent man." Is that the same Corbyn who cuddled up to IRA and allows his female detractors to be mentally abused by momentum and his other hanger ons | |||
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"They just report them to the 'internet' then people can claim there's been a rise in hate crimes or reported hate crimes. It's just a political agenda and bollocks. As usual But then those reports would,nt show on an official account of how many reports had been made therefore would,nt contribute to a rise in hate crimes. not official no, but people believe what they read and what they want to believe. Official figures are simply a political agenda now too. Nick a Muslims bike and it's not bike theft it's a hate crime" | |||
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"It appears Andy Burnham thinks Muslims should be able to "by-pass" the police when reporting hate crimes but who could they report them to if not the police and why just Muslims. I think it would just divide people even more. What do you think. I think he's one of the most repulsive human beings in politics today. A true slim ball that would serve anyone that gave him more power or a better position. His words have no meaning since he'll say anything to get elected. Other than that he's lovely. "
But he is not lovely at all.
Classic example of what is wrong with today's politicians | |||
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"Andy burnam is a snake. he will slither off to become mayor have much to say about all-sorts. Then reappear when the dust has settled after 2020. Telling us how well he did as as myor and can now lead both the party and the country. (boris) "Totally agree | |||
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"It appears Andy Burnham thinks Muslims should be able to "by-pass" the police when reporting hate crimes but who could they report them to if not the police and why just Muslims. I think it would just divide people even more. What do you think. I think that is probably a headline and not really what he said when put in context. Burnham, like Corbyn is a decent man. Is that the same Corbyn who cuddled up to IRA and allows his female detractors to be mentally abused by momentum and his other hanger ons" Cosies up to the IRA? You need to stop swallowing the lies and smears of the daily mail and use your brain for a change. He said the people of Northern Ireland represented by Sinn Fein had a legitimate point of view which needed to be recognised. He said the only way to solve the problem was to do that and get around the table. This was not mrs thatchers policy and she was wrong. It was a policy eventually employed by john major and taken on and pushed to a conclusion by tony Blair. History has shown they were right. History has shown Corbyn was right and you people are wrong and stupid and fairly unpleasant. And while I am on, Corbyn condemns all violence, whether by terrorists or states. He is consistent. He is also consistent when he says the way to solve these sort of difficulties around the world, be it Northern Ireland, Palestine, Iraq, Syria, Libya or wherever is by all parties getting around a table and talking. I'm surprised that some people do not agree. | |||
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"It appears Andy Burnham thinks Muslims should be able to "by-pass" the police when reporting hate crimes but who could they report them to if not the police and why just Muslims. I think it would just divide people even more. What do you think. I think that is probably a headline and not really what he said when put in context. Burnham, like Corbyn is a decent man. Is that the same Corbyn who cuddled up to IRA and allows his female detractors to be mentally abused by momentum and his other hanger ons Cosies up to the IRA? You need to stop swallowing the lies and smears of the daily mail and use your brain for a change. He said the people of Northern Ireland represented by Sinn Fein had a legitimate point of view which needed to be recognised. He said the only way to solve the problem was to do that and get around the table. This was not mrs thatchers policy and she was wrong. It was a policy eventually employed by john major and taken on and pushed to a conclusion by tony Blair. History has shown they were right. History has shown Corbyn was right and you people are wrong and stupid and fairly unpleasant. And while I am on, Corbyn condemns all violence, whether by terrorists or states. He is consistent. He is also consistent when he says the way to solve these sort of difficulties around the world, be it Northern Ireland, Palestine, Iraq, Syria, Libya or wherever is by all parties getting around a table and talking. I'm surprised that some people do not agree. " I'm surprised that anyone falls for the shite he comes out with but there ya go | |||
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"It appears Andy Burnham thinks Muslims should be able to "by-pass" the police when reporting hate crimes but who could they report them to if not the police and why just Muslims. I think it would just divide people even more. What do you think. I think that is probably a headline and not really what he said when put in context. Burnham, like Corbyn is a decent man. Is that the same Corbyn who cuddled up to IRA and allows his female detractors to be mentally abused by momentum and his other hanger ons Cosies up to the IRA? You need to stop swallowing the lies and smears of the daily mail and use your brain for a change. He said the people of Northern Ireland represented by Sinn Fein had a legitimate point of view which needed to be recognised. He said the only way to solve the problem was to do that and get around the table. This was not mrs thatchers policy and she was wrong. It was a policy eventually employed by john major and taken on and pushed to a conclusion by tony Blair. History has shown they were right. History has shown Corbyn was right and you people are wrong and stupid and fairly unpleasant. And while I am on, Corbyn condemns all violence, whether by terrorists or states. He is consistent. He is also consistent when he says the way to solve these sort of difficulties around the world, be it Northern Ireland, Palestine, Iraq, Syria, Libya or wherever is by all parties getting around a table and talking. I'm surprised that some people do not agree. " Corbyn condemns all violence, while his supporters throw bricks through the windows of women who dare to have a different opinion to him  | |||
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"Which he condemns. Unfortunately passions run too high when betrayal is involved, which is how many see the actions of the PLP. The unscrupulous hard left are using that. Since you are throwing stones. Have the Conservative party completed their investigation into their institutionalised bullying that led to someone taking their own life?" You'd have to ask them, you seem to have mistaken me for someone who gives a shit what the Conservatives do. I don't remember Stalin ever admitting to his purges either. I expect he condemned violence... as the gulags filled up. | |||
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" Since you are throwing stones. Have the Conservative party completed their investigation into their institutionalised bullying that led to someone taking their own life? You'd have to ask them, you seem to have mistaken me for someone who gives a shit what the Conservatives do. I don't remember Stalin ever admitting to his purges either. I expect he condemned violence... as the gulags filled up. " You don't care about the Conservatives but do about Labour? Why the reference to Stalin? As for the opening post I suggested we were looking at a headline and not the substance or context of Mr Burnham's view. From The Independent. 'British Muslims 'should be allowed to bypass police' when reporting hate crime, Andy Burnham says Shadow home secretary Andy Burnham has called for a root-and-branch review of the controversial Prevent policy' That was the headline and byline. The substance was 'British Muslims should be given a new way of reporting hate crimes that bypasses the police, BECAUSE THE GOVERNMENTS CONTROVERSIAL PREVENT ANTI-EXTREMISM STRATEGY HAS RUINED TRUST BETWEEN THE TWO PARTIES, Andy Burnham has suggested. The shadow Home Secretary called for a “root and branch review” of Prevent and said the true scale of Islamophobic hate crimes was being hidden because Muslims were reticent to report such crimes to an institution involved in monitoring them. Mr Burnham, who is Labour’s candidate for Mayor of Greater Manchester, compared Prevent to the French ban on the burkini swimming costume and said it “singles out one community for different treatment”. He said such an approach risked legitimising or inspiring Islamophobic hate crime. Earlier this year the UN special rapporteur on the right to freedom of assembly warned that Prevent could actually end up promoting extremism, describing it as a “Big Brother” approach. The strategy is aimed at preventing people from becoming “radicalised” and turning to terrorism. Provisions include giving public bodies, including teachers, a statutory duty to report so-called signs of extremism. These may however include innocuous and entirely legal activities such as people becoming more religious or expressing anti-establishment views. Teaching unions have voted to boycott elements of the programme. “If people have a feeling that the bodies that they would go to are also simultaneously being asked to monitor them there’s a possible conflict of interest there isn’t there?” Mr Burnham told a fringe event at Labour conference organised by the Mend (Muslim Engagement & Development), a not-for-profit company that aims to enhance the engagement of British Muslims in national life. “Then people won’t feel able to come forward and say exactly what’s happening to them and their family if they also feel they’re being monitored in some way. Is there then a need to create trusted third parties for reporting hate crime so that it isn’t the case that people have to go directly to the police or possible the council?” Mr Burnham made his comments after reviewing research by Mend which found that race and religious hate crime had been rising year-on-year in the recent past – as well as a dramatic spike round the EU referendum. A survey of Muslims conducted by the organisation also found that people who said they had suffered Islamophobic discrimination in the workplace and other areas were unlikely to report it: 61 per cent of people affected said they had not reported workplace discrimination to anyone, and most who did reported it only to friend and family. Mr Burnham told the fringe meeting: “I think what we mustn’t do is fall into the trap into which the French have fallen into over a number of years which is to develop a policy agenda that looks like it is targeting one community. We saw that in the summer with the burkini ban. “Our equivalent here, you might say, is Prevent: an approach to policy that singles out one community for different treatment. That is highly problematic, I would say. “In the midst of all these figures we’ve seen, we know that it is Islamophobia that is absolutely the most virulent strand of this hate that is coming forward. “If governments are doing things to almost legitimise things in some way by saying this community does need to be treated differently, it does need to be watched at a local level, because there’s danger here in terms of behaviour, that is highly problematic.” So Mr Burnham was making a very valid and useful point, for good reasons, based on research and findings, in order to reduce terrosrism, extremism and racism. But some on here think he is evil???? I don't know whether it is unwillingness or inability that stops people from looking at things for themselves in a little detail, rather than swallow wholesale the biased or lazy media reporting. See also Mr Corbyn. | |||
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" Since you are throwing stones. Have the Conservative party completed their investigation into their institutionalised bullying that led to someone taking their own life? You'd have to ask them, you seem to have mistaken me for someone who gives a shit what the Conservatives do. I don't remember Stalin ever admitting to his purges either. I expect he condemned violence... as the gulags filled up. You don't care about the Conservatives but do about Labour? Why the reference to Stalin? As for the opening post I suggested we were looking at a headline and not the substance or context of Mr Burnham's view. " Corbyn, like McDonnell and Livingstone is a Marxist, like Stalin. Marxist is a disgraced term, like Facist. If any politician said they were a Facist there would be calls for them to resign. Marxists have no place in the house of commons. It's an evil ideology responsible for the deaths for tens of millions of people, just like Facism. Burnham is a different type of evil. Nobody can possibly say they have any sense of values if they are willing to serve new labour and now whatever Corbyn is. They are polar opposites. Whilst the sensible labour MPs refused to serve, Burnham is the kind of parasite that would make an excellent concentration camp guard because he'll do whatever he's told and serve whoever. | |||
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"Hmm, so you've compared Corbyn and co to Stalin and now Burnham to a conentration camp guard. This is one of the clever, perhaps cunning is a better word because clever suggests an intelligence that is lacking in the broader scheme of things, tactics the Right like to employ. Namely to make enough pronouncements that mention something you dislike with something really heinous in the expectation it will have some traction eventually. It's worked a beaut on you. You don't really know what a Socialist is, what a Marxist is or what Stalin was. 'Marxists have no place in the House of Commons'? That sounds a bit fascist to me. Not to mention wrong on two counts. The first being that in a democracy everyone has an equal say the second being that in Marx was a believer in Democracy. In contrast to what you might think, Marx thought the difficulty was in finding the right balance between Democracy and Socialism. The commonly used phrase is Marx's theory moves in the 'direction of defining consistent democracy in socialist terms, and consistent socialism in democratic terms'. So you see it is entirely possible to be a marxist and a democrat. You chose extreme examples such as Mao and Stalin, but Stalinism betrays Marxism, it is why it was given its own name by Marxists, in the hope of distinguishing it. Why not instead focus on other systems such as certain Social Democracies or Democratic Societies with a heavy dose of socialism. We are an example thanks to our welfare state and NHS, put in place by the post war Labour government when people were all too aware of the most important things in life, but since continually attacked by the Right/Conservative Party. Perhaps even better examples are the Scandinavian countries. Norway, Sweden and Denmark tend to top the charts of best places to live. The left want to move in that direction. The right have been pulling us toward a more unequal, unhappy society, since 1979. " were you happy with shit on the streets and unburied dead? | |||
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"Hmm, so you've compared Corbyn and co to Stalin and now Burnham to a conentration camp guard. This is one of the clever, perhaps cunning is a better word because clever suggests an intelligence that is lacking in the broader scheme of things, tactics the Right like to employ. Namely to make enough pronouncements that mention something you dislike with something really heinous in the expectation it will have some traction eventually. It's worked a beaut on you. You don't really know what a Socialist is, what a Marxist is or what Stalin was. 'Marxists have no place in the House of Commons'? That sounds a bit fascist to me. " As you like but facists have no place in the house of commons either " Not to mention wrong on two counts. The first being that in a democracy everyone has an equal say the second being that in Marx was a believer in Democracy. In contrast to what you might think, Marx thought the difficulty was in finding the right balance between Democracy and Socialism. The commonly used phrase is Marx's theory moves in the 'direction of defining consistent democracy in socialist terms, and consistent socialism in democratic terms'. So you see it is entirely possible to be a marxist and a democrat. You chose extreme examples such as Mao and Stalin, but Stalinism betrays Marxism, it is why it was given its own name by Marxists, in the hope of distinguishing it. " Standard response of the lefties "oh that wasn't really socialism". Ok, please give me a non-capitalist country that is a good example of socialism working better than a capitalist society? " Why not instead focus on other systems such as certain Social Democracies or Democratic Societies with a heavy dose of socialism. We are an example thanks to our welfare state and NHS, put in place by the post war Labour government when people were all too aware of the most important things in life, but since continually attacked by the Right/Conservative Party. Perhaps even better examples are the Scandinavian countries. Norway, Sweden and Denmark tend to top the charts of best places to live. The left want to move in that direction. The right have been pulling us toward a more unequal, unhappy society, since 1979. " Go live there then. I find their culture repulsive and don't want our country to be remotely like Sweden. | |||
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"What a shame he/she disappeared. Though I often disagreed I valued the opinions. I was going to say, in response to 'please give me a non-capitalist country that is a good example of socialism working better than a capitalist society?' that I could not. There isn't one and I'm highly doubtful there will or could ever be a well functioning fully socialist country. Equally a completely laissez-faire capitalist society is impossible. A mixture of both is required (which does actually follow Marx's theories/predictions) the debate is over the mix. My view is we still have further to go to the left, not to roll back to the right. " What we need are out-riggers to keep us stable. | |||
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