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"I'm not really bothered where the border is,just that it is enforced"  | |||
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"I'm not really bothered where the border is,just that it is enforced" You would be bothered if it was in Kent (where it actually is) and not France (where it is currently). | |||
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"I'm not really bothered where the border is,just that it is enforced You would be bothered if it was in Kent (where it actually is) and not France (where it is currently)." . No not really, I'm just wanting it policed wherever it is | |||
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"I'm not really bothered where the border is,just that it is enforced You would be bothered if it was in Kent (where it actually is) and not France (where it is currently).. No not really, I'm just wanting it policed wherever it is" Surely if they are not British or not have the relevant visa then you just don't let them on the ferry! Yes it might take a little extra time but worth it in the end. It's the French that we letting them in from thier other borders that's the problem because they know that they are all headed for the uk as for some reason they think that this is the land of milk and honey, big shock when they eventually make it. | |||
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"The conditions are appalling there, people shouldn't have to live like that. " . Your right they shouldn't but unfortunately they do, nobody seeking genuine asylum should be there!.... I guess it comes down to who you can help with reasonable resources | |||
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"The conditions are appalling there, people shouldn't have to live like that. " they don't have to do they? | |||
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"The conditions are appalling there, people shouldn't have to live like that. they don't have to do they?" No they don't, if they are genuine asylum seekers then they should be claiming asylum in France. As for the jungle camp, the whole thing should be bulldozed flat. | |||
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"The National Border remains on our coastline by the way but the location of the 'border control' isn't the issue. The real issue is that the EU has failed to manage its external borders, has porous internal borders and allows illegal migrants to wander about as they please. Throw in the fact that the French will not enforce either the UN rules or indeed the EU 'Dublin Agreement' on Asylum and you have anarchy. And criminals love anarchy.... So the UK Border Control moves to say Dover. So what? All the problems are happening on French soil long before the trucks and trains get to the Border control. The illegal migrants still have to get on a truck or train or whatever and that is still an issue for hauliers and the French Police not UK authorities. I used to drive that route and in my day it wasn't Africans it was Poles and Hungarians ... same problem different people and I saw mates get fined £2,000 for every illegal twat who had cut their way into a tilt trailer for a free ride. Difference was we sent them back." I prefer to argue with you than agree with you 
but yet again I agree with you
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"The conditions are appalling there, people shouldn't have to live like that. they don't have to do they? No they don't, if they are genuine asylum seekers then they should be claiming asylum in France. As for the jungle camp, the whole thing should be bulldozed flat. " They should have claimed asylum before they even made their journey to France, how many other countries did they pass through | |||
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"The conditions are appalling there, people shouldn't have to live like that. " They should abide by international law and apply for asylum in the first country they arrive at, if they arent refugees then they should apply for a visa in their own country,and then accept the decision as to whether we will let them in, have you not seen the pictures of them threatening drivers etc etc, do you really want that criminal element being allowed in? | |||
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"The conditions are appalling there, people shouldn't have to live like that. " Nobody asked them to live there, it's their own choosing I would bull doze the whole shit set up, electrify the fences and fuck them off back the African shit hole that they originated from Why too we waste billions processing and accommodating them, it should a simple your not needed, you have no language or other skills In an X Factor style should be just a simple It's a No!.. | |||
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"The conditions are appalling there, people shouldn't have to live like that. they don't have to do they? No they don't, if they are genuine asylum seekers then they should be claiming asylum in France. As for the jungle camp, the whole thing should be bulldozed flat. " | |||
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"The conditions are appalling there, people shouldn't have to live like that. " No they shouldn't have to live like that. More than that no one is forcing them to live there and under International and EU Law they should not even be there. Or in France come to that. Setting aside the emotional and subjective arguments the situation is that the people there are illegal economic migrants who entered France illegally, they are looking to enter the UK illegally and do so without payment or proper papers. Should they arrive here they cannot under UN or EU Laws apply for Political Asylum having passed any first country of safe refuge. The creation of this appalling camp in Calais is entirely the fault of the EU with the connivance of the French Government. A cynic might suggest this connivance was to create embarrassment for the UK Government but it appears the French people have now had enough of this tactic ... Again I couldn't possibly comment...  | |||
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" I prefer to argue with you than agree with you but yet again I agree with you "Spoilsport ... | |||
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"The conditions are appalling there, people shouldn't have to live like that. Nobody asked them to live there, it's their own choosing I would bull doze the whole shit set up, electrify the fences and fuck them off back the African shit hole that they originated from Why too we waste billions processing and accommodating them, it should a simple your not needed, you have no language or other skills In an X Factor style should be just a simple It's a No!.." And what would you do if you saw your best friend raped for speaking their native language? What if you saw your civilian father being forced to walk in front of soldiers so that he would detonate any land mines that might have been placed there? What if you were forced to build a fence around your own village, to build your prison with your own hands? What if you were a subsistence farmer who could no longer work the fields because they had been sown with land mines? Ever met people that have suffered all of those things? Because I have. I don't blame them for wanting to flee from that. | |||
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"The conditions are appalling there, people shouldn't have to live like that. Nobody asked them to live there, it's their own choosing I would bull doze the whole shit set up, electrify the fences and fuck them off back the African shit hole that they originated from Why too we waste billions processing and accommodating them, it should a simple your not needed, you have no language or other skills In an X Factor style should be just a simple It's a No!.. And what would you do if you saw your best friend raped for speaking their native language? What if you saw your civilian father being forced to walk in front of soldiers so that he would detonate any land mines that might have been placed there? What if you were forced to build a fence around your own village, to build your prison with your own hands? What if you were a subsistence farmer who could no longer work the fields because they had been sown with land mines? Ever met people that have suffered all of those things? Because I have. I don't blame them for wanting to flee from that. " All this happens in France? Blimey | |||
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"The conditions are appalling there, people shouldn't have to live like that. Nobody asked them to live there, it's their own choosing I would bull doze the whole shit set up, electrify the fences and fuck them off back the African shit hole that they originated from Why too we waste billions processing and accommodating them, it should a simple your not needed, you have no language or other skills In an X Factor style should be just a simple It's a No!.. And what would you do if you saw your best friend raped for speaking their native language? What if you saw your civilian father being forced to walk in front of soldiers so that he would detonate any land mines that might have been placed there? What if you were forced to build a fence around your own village, to build your prison with your own hands? What if you were a subsistence farmer who could no longer work the fields because they had been sown with land mines? Ever met people that have suffered all of those things? Because I have. I don't blame them for wanting to flee from that. " Out of interest what countries were they from? | |||
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"The conditions are appalling there, people shouldn't have to live like that. Nobody asked them to live there, it's their own choosing I would bull doze the whole shit set up, electrify the fences and fuck them off back the African shit hole that they originated from Why too we waste billions processing and accommodating them, it should a simple your not needed, you have no language or other skills In an X Factor style should be just a simple It's a No!.. And what would you do if you saw your best friend raped for speaking their native language? What if you saw your civilian father being forced to walk in front of soldiers so that he would detonate any land mines that might have been placed there? What if you were forced to build a fence around your own village, to build your prison with your own hands? What if you were a subsistence farmer who could no longer work the fields because they had been sown with land mines? Ever met people that have suffered all of those things? Because I have. I don't blame them for wanting to flee from that. " That's all well and true but they should be applying for asylum in the first safe country they reach, England isn't their first safe country by a long bloody shot. They have broken European rules on asylum and now with the problems their creating, accidents to gain access to vehicles, assaults etc they need to be forcefully deported to Mogadishu or the like or build gigantic prisons to stick them in, somewhere like Mogadishu or simply spirited away if their guilty of attacking motorists. | |||
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"The conditions are appalling there, people shouldn't have to live like that. Nobody asked them to live there, it's their own choosing I would bull doze the whole shit set up, electrify the fences and fuck them off back the African shit hole that they originated from Why too we waste billions processing and accommodating them, it should a simple your not needed, you have no language or other skills In an X Factor style should be just a simple It's a No!.. And what would you do if you saw your best friend raped for speaking their native language? What if you saw your civilian father being forced to walk in front of soldiers so that he would detonate any land mines that might have been placed there? What if you were forced to build a fence around your own village, to build your prison with your own hands? What if you were a subsistence farmer who could no longer work the fields because they had been sown with land mines? Ever met people that have suffered all of those things? Because I have. I don't blame them for wanting to flee from that. " In Algeria and Morocco? WOW. Better not book a cruise that calls into Casablanca and Tangier then. OK I can understand Nigeria, it must be hell there. All those billionaires dropping out of the sky in plane crashes wanting to give you a share of their fortune. I suppose the Somalis need somewhere to knock out all the goodies they've nicked from their pirate adventures. Where better that Wythenshawe market eh? Give me a break from the bleeding heart. We have genuine Syrian refugees in some of our flats and they regularly point out to us all the scammers and shysters, and trust me they are the majority. | |||
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"Could all be solved by a fairly simple, small airstrike possibly "accidental" lol" Jungles look like at night by Napalm  | |||
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"Could all be solved by a fairly simple, small airstrike possibly "accidental" lol Jungles look like at night by Napalm "I would need to have sympathy for the devil by the rolling Stones playing in my eurofighter not sure if you can connect an ipod to them though lol | |||
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"The conditions are appalling there, people shouldn't have to live like that. Nobody asked them to live there, it's their own choosing I would bull doze the whole shit set up, electrify the fences and fuck them off back the African shit hole that they originated from Why too we waste billions processing and accommodating them, it should a simple your not needed, you have no language or other skills In an X Factor style should be just a simple It's a No!.. And what would you do if you saw your best friend raped for speaking their native language? What if you saw your civilian father being forced to walk in front of soldiers so that he would detonate any land mines that might have been placed there? What if you were forced to build a fence around your own village, to build your prison with your own hands? What if you were a subsistence farmer who could no longer work the fields because they had been sown with land mines? Ever met people that have suffered all of those things? Because I have. I don't blame them for wanting to flee from that. That's all well and true but they should be applying for asylum in the first safe country they reach, England isn't their first safe country by a long bloody shot. They have broken European rules on asylum and now with the problems their creating, accidents to gain access to vehicles, assaults etc they need to be forcefully deported to Mogadishu or the like or build gigantic prisons to stick them in, somewhere like Mogadishu or simply spirited away if their guilty of attacking motorists." Yes I would go with that. However I would take it a stage further. Firstly I wouldn't bulldoze the jungle. I would build an electrified fence around it and turn it into a huge prison, then systematically deport anyone not from a genuine war zone, along with anyone from anywhere involved in any form of criminal activity. Including attacking trucks. The bit I don't get is that how a gang of thugs can storm their way into a truck and not get dragged out when the go through security. Is no-one checking? | |||
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" The bit I don't get is that how a gang of thugs can storm their way into a truck and not get dragged out when the go through security. Is no-one checking?" Their probably all sat behind the driver in the sleeping compartment with a big fucking butchers knife ready to stick the driver if he says anything. Fucking savages | |||
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" And what would you do if you saw your best friend raped for speaking their native language? What if you saw your civilian father being forced to walk in front of soldiers so that he would detonate any land mines that might have been placed there? What if you were forced to build a fence around your own village, to build your prison with your own hands? What if you were a subsistence farmer who could no longer work the fields because they had been sown with land mines? Ever met people that have suffered all of those things? Because I have. I don't blame them for wanting to flee from that. " Well seeing as the ones we see blocking roads with trees, chasing lorries and sitting around the jungle with mobile phones are often young fit males perhaps they need to stand up and be counted in their own country not run off and break laws elsewhere. I have every sympathy for GENUINE refugees but too many in that camp arent | |||
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" And what would you do if you saw your best friend raped for speaking their native language? What if you saw your civilian father being forced to walk in front of soldiers so that he would detonate any land mines that might have been placed there? What if you were forced to build a fence around your own village, to build your prison with your own hands? What if you were a subsistence farmer who could no longer work the fields because they had been sown with land mines? Ever met people that have suffered all of those things? Because I have. I don't blame them for wanting to flee from that. Well seeing as the ones we see blocking roads with trees, chasing lorries and sitting around the jungle with mobile phones are often young fit males perhaps they need to stand up and be counted in their own country not run off and break laws elsewhere. I have every sympathy for GENUINE refugees but too many in that camp arent" Well you obviously dont have every sympathy (or even any sympathy) with genuine refugees if you are saying that they should stand up an be counted in their own country. That could mean an unarmed, untrained civilian standing up against a modern military armed with artillery and air support. That could mean standing up in a country where your sexuality could get you stoned to death. That could mean standing up in a country where your religious beliefs and practices could cause your death at the hands of your neighbours. That could mean standing up in a country where your political beliefs could cause you to be tortured, imprisoned or executed. So you cant say that you sympathize with them if you what you really want is for them just not to come here. | |||
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"We won't have to do a thing about The jungle. The locals have had enough but more importantly the French Truckers have had enough. And trust me when the the French Truckers demand action on threat of a strike French Governments give in. They can shut down France in 3 days! And there is a Presidential election coming up soon and truckers and Calais locals are voters. We can just sit back and watch .... "indeed, exact same as French Farmers, just a pity the gutless Brits didn't have back bone to follow, although some junior doctors are learning how to stand up for themselves | |||
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" And what would you do if you saw your best friend raped for speaking their native language? What if you saw your civilian father being forced to walk in front of soldiers so that he would detonate any land mines that might have been placed there? What if you were forced to build a fence around your own village, to build your prison with your own hands? What if you were a subsistence farmer who could no longer work the fields because they had been sown with land mines? Ever met people that have suffered all of those things? Because I have. I don't blame them for wanting to flee from that. Well seeing as the ones we see blocking roads with trees, chasing lorries and sitting around the jungle with mobile phones are often young fit males perhaps they need to stand up and be counted in their own country not run off and break laws elsewhere. I have every sympathy for GENUINE refugees but too many in that camp arent" Said that all along, they like to cause hassle and trouble, fight with sticks but put them back in their own country and they run away unwilling to fight for their own country send them back and if they are not willing to go, then send them to the camps on their border. | |||
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"The conditions are appalling there, people shouldn't have to live like that. Nobody asked them to live there, it's their own choosing I would bull doze the whole shit set up, electrify the fences and fuck them off back the African shit hole that they originated from Why too we waste billions processing and accommodating them, it should a simple your not needed, you have no language or other skills In an X Factor style should be just a simple It's a No!.. And what would you do if you saw your best friend raped for speaking their native language? What if you saw your civilian father being forced to walk in front of soldiers so that he would detonate any land mines that might have been placed there? What if you were forced to build a fence around your own village, to build your prison with your own hands? What if you were a subsistence farmer who could no longer work the fields because they had been sown with land mines? Ever met people that have suffered all of those things? Because I have. I don't blame them for wanting to flee from that. " I've also met hundreds who haven't suffered any of the above but want what UK has to offer as it's an easier option than what they currently have. Let's be truthful most of the people in the jungle just want what the west has to offer | |||
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" And what would you do if you saw your best friend raped for speaking their native language? What if you saw your civilian father being forced to walk in front of soldiers so that he would detonate any land mines that might have been placed there? What if you were forced to build a fence around your own village, to build your prison with your own hands? What if you were a subsistence farmer who could no longer work the fields because they had been sown with land mines? Ever met people that have suffered all of those things? Because I have. I don't blame them for wanting to flee from that. Well seeing as the ones we see blocking roads with trees, chasing lorries and sitting around the jungle with mobile phones are often young fit males perhaps they need to stand up and be counted in their own country not run off and break laws elsewhere. I have every sympathy for GENUINE refugees but too many in that camp arent Said that all along, they like to cause hassle and trouble, fight with sticks but put them back in their own country and they run away unwilling to fight for their own country send them back and if they are not willing to go, then send them to the camps on their border."
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"Wow. Such intolerance. I am pretty sure that very few people are going to choose to live in conditions like that without a bloody good reason." Such as? What is so wrong with living in mainland Europe that they would choose to live in those conditions in an attempt to get to the UK? Why would they want to come to a country full of xenophobes and soon to be out of the wonderful EU? Lets be honest, why are they so desperate to get to the UK? | |||
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"Wow. Such intolerance. I am pretty sure that very few people are going to choose to live in conditions like that without a bloody good reason. Such as? What is so wrong with living in mainland Europe that they would choose to live in those conditions in an attempt to get to the UK? Why would they want to come to a country full of xenophobes and soon to be out of the wonderful EU? Lets be honest, why are they so desperate to get to the UK?" front of the queue for a council house, benefits, health care, corrupt business opportunities, crime opportunities with laxed easy punishment if caught, we could go on . and on . and on | |||
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"Wow. Such intolerance. I am pretty sure that very few people are going to choose to live in conditions like that without a bloody good reason. Such as? What is so wrong with living in mainland Europe that they would choose to live in those conditions in an attempt to get to the UK? Why would they want to come to a country full of xenophobes and soon to be out of the wonderful EU? Lets be honest, why are they so desperate to get to the UK? front of the queue for a council house, benefits, health care, corrupt business opportunities, crime opportunities with laxed easy punishment if caught, we could go on . and on . and on" It's a misconception regarding council housing, benefits and healthcare , asylum seekers don't go to front of the queue. It's the same for EU citizens who come here. Statistics will tell you that. The media hypes it all up and get it wrong time and time again. | |||
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"Wow. Such intolerance. I am pretty sure that very few people are going to choose to live in conditions like that without a bloody good reason. Such as? What is so wrong with living in mainland Europe that they would choose to live in those conditions in an attempt to get to the UK? Why would they want to come to a country full of xenophobes and soon to be out of the wonderful EU? Lets be honest, why are they so desperate to get to the UK? front of the queue for a council house, benefits, health care, corrupt business opportunities, crime opportunities with laxed easy punishment if caught, we could go on . and on . and on It's a misconception regarding council housing, benefits and healthcare , asylum seekers don't go to front of the queue. It's the same for EU citizens who come here. Statistics will tell you that. The media hypes it all up and get it wrong time and time again." guess I should turn off the BBC Scotland news then as we just had 100 immigrants come in and all have been safely homed, that you for correcting the situation | |||
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"Wow. Such intolerance. I am pretty sure that very few people are going to choose to live in conditions like that without a bloody good reason. Such as? What is so wrong with living in mainland Europe that they would choose to live in those conditions in an attempt to get to the UK? Why would they want to come to a country full of xenophobes and soon to be out of the wonderful EU? Lets be honest, why are they so desperate to get to the UK? front of the queue for a council house, benefits, health care, corrupt business opportunities, crime opportunities with laxed easy punishment if caught, we could go on . and on . and on It's a misconception regarding council housing, benefits and healthcare , asylum seekers don't go to front of the queue. It's the same for EU citizens who come here. Statistics will tell you that. The media hypes it all up and get it wrong time and time again. guess I should turn off the BBC Scotland news then as we just had 100 immigrants come in and all have been safely homed, that you for correcting the situation" And were they refugees? And are they housed forever or short term? Was their need higher than others on the list? Were they housed in the best social housing available ? I doubt it. I'm just saying people see what they choose to see and not always things as they really are. | |||
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"The conditions are appalling there, people shouldn't have to live like that. Nobody asked them to live there, it's their own choosing I would bull doze the whole shit set up, electrify the fences and fuck them off back the African shit hole that they originated from Why too we waste billions processing and accommodating them, it should a simple your not needed, you have no language or other skills In an X Factor style should be just a simple It's a No!.. And what would you do if you saw your best friend raped for speaking their native language? What if you saw your civilian father being forced to walk in front of soldiers so that he would detonate any land mines that might have been placed there? What if you were forced to build a fence around your own village, to build your prison with your own hands? What if you were a subsistence farmer who could no longer work the fields because they had been sown with land mines? Ever met people that have suffered all of those things? Because I have. I don't blame them for wanting to flee from that. " I would stay and fight! it is that simple. not run and hide. | |||
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"Wow. Such intolerance. I am pretty sure that very few people are going to choose to live in conditions like that without a bloody good reason. Such as? What is so wrong with living in mainland Europe that they would choose to live in those conditions in an attempt to get to the UK? Why would they want to come to a country full of xenophobes and soon to be out of the wonderful EU? Lets be honest, why are they so desperate to get to the UK? front of the queue for a council house, benefits, health care, corrupt business opportunities, crime opportunities with laxed easy punishment if caught, we could go on . and on . and on It's a misconception regarding council housing, benefits and healthcare , asylum seekers don't go to front of the queue. It's the same for EU citizens who come here. Statistics will tell you that. The media hypes it all up and get it wrong time and time again." so can you answer the question then? Why are they so desperate to get to the UK? | |||
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"Wow. Such intolerance. I am pretty sure that very few people are going to choose to live in conditions like that without a bloody good reason. Such as? What is so wrong with living in mainland Europe that they would choose to live in those conditions in an attempt to get to the UK? Why would they want to come to a country full of xenophobes and soon to be out of the wonderful EU? Lets be honest, why are they so desperate to get to the UK? front of the queue for a council house, benefits, health care, corrupt business opportunities, crime opportunities with laxed easy punishment if caught, we could go on . and on . and on It's a misconception regarding council housing, benefits and healthcare , asylum seekers don't go to front of the queue. It's the same for EU citizens who come here. Statistics will tell you that. The media hypes it all up and get it wrong time and time again." If the media have it so wrong why have these apparently poor, innocent 'refugees' gone past safer Muslim countries like Jordan, Egypt, Lebanon, Turkey, Algeria, Morocco even Tunisia and then EU and European countries like Greece, Serbia, Bulgaria, Romania, Hungary, Slovakia, Czech., Croatia, Slovenia, Austria, Germany, Italy, Switzerland, France, Belgium, Spain....... to get to the UK? Once those magic words "I claim Asylum" are uttered here they are given everything they never had before. THAT is why they are heading here. Are ANY of the European countries listed here in any way 'unsafe' or 'war torn' or whatever? No. But they have shit Welfare systems or take a very hard line on Asylum. | |||
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"Wow. Such intolerance. I am pretty sure that very few people are going to choose to live in conditions like that without a bloody good reason. Such as? What is so wrong with living in mainland Europe that they would choose to live in those conditions in an attempt to get to the UK? Why would they want to come to a country full of xenophobes and soon to be out of the wonderful EU? Lets be honest, why are they so desperate to get to the UK? front of the queue for a council house, benefits, health care, corrupt business opportunities, crime opportunities with laxed easy punishment if caught, we could go on . and on . and on It's a misconception regarding council housing, benefits and healthcare , asylum seekers don't go to front of the queue. It's the same for EU citizens who come here. Statistics will tell you that. The media hypes it all up and get it wrong time and time again. so can you answer the question then? Why are they so desperate to get to the UK?" Maybe they thought we were more accepting. Being an illegal immigrant here is not an easy option. If you’ve been refused asylum you'll get £35.39 per person per week on a payment card for food, clothing and toiletries. Not going to get you far is it really. | |||
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"Wow. Such intolerance. I am pretty sure that very few people are going to choose to live in conditions like that without a bloody good reason. Such as? What is so wrong with living in mainland Europe that they would choose to live in those conditions in an attempt to get to the UK? Why would they want to come to a country full of xenophobes and soon to be out of the wonderful EU? Lets be honest, why are they so desperate to get to the UK? front of the queue for a council house, benefits, health care, corrupt business opportunities, crime opportunities with laxed easy punishment if caught, we could go on . and on . and on It's a misconception regarding council housing, benefits and healthcare , asylum seekers don't go to front of the queue. It's the same for EU citizens who come here. Statistics will tell you that. The media hypes it all up and get it wrong time and time again. so can you answer the question then? Why are they so desperate to get to the UK? Maybe they thought we were more accepting. Being an illegal immigrant here is not an easy option. If you’ve been refused asylum you'll get £35.39 per person per week on a payment card for food, clothing and toiletries. Not going to get you far is it really. " Your right it won't get you far but if you have come from a country like west Africa where there is no social system in place to help the £35.39 for every member of your family per week is a huge increase on basically nothing. | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"Wow. Such intolerance. I am pretty sure that very few people are going to choose to live in conditions like that without a bloody good reason. Such as? What is so wrong with living in mainland Europe that they would choose to live in those conditions in an attempt to get to the UK? Why would they want to come to a country full of xenophobes and soon to be out of the wonderful EU? Lets be honest, why are they so desperate to get to the UK? front of the queue for a council house, benefits, health care, corrupt business opportunities, crime opportunities with laxed easy punishment if caught, we could go on . and on . and on It's a misconception regarding council housing, benefits and healthcare , asylum seekers don't go to front of the queue. It's the same for EU citizens who come here. Statistics will tell you that. The media hypes it all up and get it wrong time and time again. so can you answer the question then? Why are they so desperate to get to the UK? Maybe they thought we were more accepting. Being an illegal immigrant here is not an easy option. If you’ve been refused asylum you'll get £35.39 per person per week on a payment card for food, clothing and toiletries. Not going to get you far is it really. " But when they have been refused Asylum they should be shipped back from whence they cam surely? So whatever the outcome they are better off than staying in The Jungle, or anywhere else in Europe apparently. | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"Wow. Such intolerance. I am pretty sure that very few people are going to choose to live in conditions like that without a bloody good reason. Such as? What is so wrong with living in mainland Europe that they would choose to live in those conditions in an attempt to get to the UK? Why would they want to come to a country full of xenophobes and soon to be out of the wonderful EU? Lets be honest, why are they so desperate to get to the UK? front of the queue for a council house, benefits, health care, corrupt business opportunities, crime opportunities with laxed easy punishment if caught, we could go on . and on . and on It's a misconception regarding council housing, benefits and healthcare , asylum seekers don't go to front of the queue. It's the same for EU citizens who come here. Statistics will tell you that. The media hypes it all up and get it wrong time and time again. so can you answer the question then? Why are they so desperate to get to the UK? Maybe they thought we were more accepting. Being an illegal immigrant here is not an easy option. If you’ve been refused asylum you'll get £35.39 per person per week on a payment card for food, clothing and toiletries. Not going to get you far is it really. " how much do they get in France? | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"The conditions are appalling there, people shouldn't have to live like that. Nobody asked them to live there, it's their own choosing I would bull doze the whole shit set up, electrify the fences and fuck them off back the African shit hole that they originated from Why too we waste billions processing and accommodating them, it should a simple your not needed, you have no language or other skills In an X Factor style should be just a simple It's a No!.. And what would you do if you saw your best friend raped for speaking their native language? What if you saw your civilian father being forced to walk in front of soldiers so that he would detonate any land mines that might have been placed there? What if you were forced to build a fence around your own village, to build your prison with your own hands? What if you were a subsistence farmer who could no longer work the fields because they had been sown with land mines? Ever met people that have suffered all of those things? Because I have. I don't blame them for wanting to flee from that. I would stay and fight! it is that simple. not run and hide. " Before I get to your rather immature point, I'll just clarify, I get annoyed by those who clearly are just looking for an easy ride and the calais jungle is a stopping point. Especially since many people in the camp will be fleeing poverty brought on by environmental factors beyond their control or have fled conflicts or prejudice that the average Brit is not informed about, or wont hear about until they hear it on the BBC or in the telegraph, I have genuine sympathy for those who choose to take a dangerous journey to Europe, knowing that they face one of two options really. Option one stopping in most likely, Italy, France or Greece, perhaps Hungary, and if I were a non-Christian or atheist, and not European, I would not want to stop in any of those countries right now. Option two is willingly let yourself get trapped in the cesspit that is the Jungle, with a slim hope of asylum. As for solutions to solve the immigration issue in itself, it would be better if Britain and the west actually got involved whole-heartedly in these conflicts and environmental issues which are the root cause, so that citizens of that country can actually lift themselves out of poverty. However, this would require a big overseas aid package, and of course, as a nation we now seem to have some issues with sacrificing a little of our gain to help others. However I have digressed. I'll call your bluff, you want to stand and fight, okay. Become a subsistence farmer or low wage worker, deprive yourself of a few dietary requirements and then go stand against a corrupt state military or a terrorist/crime lord group that is too much for the state to handle...Oh btw, you are a subsistence farmer, so you'll be lucky if you have a hand axe or farming tool to defend yourself, and they'll have a good firearm. Go on, I bet you'd piss yourself if a armed group of men ordered you about and threatened your family with systematic torture and rape. | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"The conditions are appalling there, people shouldn't have to live like that. Nobody asked them to live there, it's their own choosing I would bull doze the whole shit set up, electrify the fences and fuck them off back the African shit hole that they originated from Why too we waste billions processing and accommodating them, it should a simple your not needed, you have no language or other skills In an X Factor style should be just a simple It's a No!.. And what would you do if you saw your best friend raped for speaking their native language? What if you saw your civilian father being forced to walk in front of soldiers so that he would detonate any land mines that might have been placed there? What if you were forced to build a fence around your own village, to build your prison with your own hands? What if you were a subsistence farmer who could no longer work the fields because they had been sown with land mines? Ever met people that have suffered all of those things? Because I have. I don't blame them for wanting to flee from that. I would stay and fight! it is that simple. not run and hide. " You might. And then you and your relatives might be dead. Or imprisoned. Or tortured. You brave hero. Not all of us are made of the same brave mettle that you are. | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"Wow. Such intolerance. I am pretty sure that very few people are going to choose to live in conditions like that without a bloody good reason. Such as? What is so wrong with living in mainland Europe that they would choose to live in those conditions in an attempt to get to the UK? Why would they want to come to a country full of xenophobes and soon to be out of the wonderful EU? Lets be honest, why are they so desperate to get to the UK? front of the queue for a council house, benefits, health care, corrupt business opportunities, crime opportunities with laxed easy punishment if caught, we could go on . and on . and on It's a misconception regarding council housing, benefits and healthcare , asylum seekers don't go to front of the queue. It's the same for EU citizens who come here. Statistics will tell you that. The media hypes it all up and get it wrong time and time again. If the media have it so wrong why have these apparently poor, innocent 'refugees' gone past safer Muslim countries like Jordan, Egypt, Lebanon, Turkey, Algeria, Morocco even Tunisia and then EU and European countries like Greece, Serbia, Bulgaria, Romania, Hungary, Slovakia, Czech., Croatia, Slovenia, Austria, Germany, Italy, Switzerland, France, Belgium, Spain....... to get to the UK? Once those magic words "I claim Asylum" are uttered here they are given everything they never had before. THAT is why they are heading here. Are ANY of the European countries listed here in any way 'unsafe' or 'war torn' or whatever? No. But they have shit Welfare systems or take a very hard line on Asylum." I get your frustration at them avoiding countries like Jordan, Turkey, Lebanon and Morrocco if they can pass through them - but I'll point out that Tunisia and Algeria share southern borders which connect with many of the sub-saharan/west african 'trouble spots'. These southern borders are currently having problems dealing with ISIS, and their supported terrorist/militia groups such as Boko Haram. So realistically if I am someone escaping conflict I would avoid that like the plague. Unless you get on a boat on the atlantic coast, you are likely going to have to cross at the Med somewhere, that will take you to france, Italy, Greece or perhaps Hungry. All of these countries over the last 5 years have developed aggressive right wing groups who are more than happy to attack non-whites, so if I were escaping conflict I'd break rules (if I know of them)to get to a more culturally tolerant country. | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"The conditions are appalling there, people shouldn't have to live like that. Nobody asked them to live there, it's their own choosing I would bull doze the whole shit set up, electrify the fences and fuck them off back the African shit hole that they originated from Why too we waste billions processing and accommodating them, it should a simple your not needed, you have no language or other skills In an X Factor style should be just a simple It's a No!.. And what would you do if you saw your best friend raped for speaking their native language? What if you saw your civilian father being forced to walk in front of soldiers so that he would detonate any land mines that might have been placed there? What if you were forced to build a fence around your own village, to build your prison with your own hands? What if you were a subsistence farmer who could no longer work the fields because they had been sown with land mines? Ever met people that have suffered all of those things? Because I have. I don't blame them for wanting to flee from that. I would stay and fight! it is that simple. not run and hide. You might. And then you and your relatives might be dead. Or imprisoned. Or tortured. You brave hero. Not all of us are made of the same brave mettle that you are." You forgot the best bit, where they most likely make him watch the torture and rape of his family before they take them away or execute them. I'm sure they'd thank you for your ac of bravery. | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"The conditions are appalling there, people shouldn't have to live like that. Nobody asked them to live there, it's their own choosing I would bull doze the whole shit set up, electrify the fences and fuck them off back the African shit hole that they originated from Why too we waste billions processing and accommodating them, it should a simple your not needed, you have no language or other skills In an X Factor style should be just a simple It's a No!.. And what would you do if you saw your best friend raped for speaking their native language? What if you saw your civilian father being forced to walk in front of soldiers so that he would detonate any land mines that might have been placed there? What if you were forced to build a fence around your own village, to build your prison with your own hands? What if you were a subsistence farmer who could no longer work the fields because they had been sown with land mines? Ever met people that have suffered all of those things? Because I have. I don't blame them for wanting to flee from that. I would stay and fight! it is that simple. not run and hide. Before I get to your rather immature point, I'll just clarify, I get annoyed by those who clearly are just looking for an easy ride and the calais jungle is a stopping point. Especially since many people in the camp will be fleeing poverty brought on by environmental factors beyond their control or have fled conflicts or prejudice that the average Brit is not informed about, or wont hear about until they hear it on the BBC or in the telegraph, I have genuine sympathy for those who choose to take a dangerous journey to Europe, knowing that they face one of two options really. Option one stopping in most likely, Italy, France or Greece, perhaps Hungary, and if I were a non-Christian or atheist, and not European, I would not want to stop in any of those countries right now. Option two is willingly let yourself get trapped in the cesspit that is the Jungle, with a slim hope of asylum. As for solutions to solve the immigration issue in itself, it would be better if Britain and the west actually got involved whole-heartedly in these conflicts and environmental issues which are the root cause, so that citizens of that country can actually lift themselves out of poverty. However, this would require a big overseas aid package, and of course, as a nation we now seem to have some issues with sacrificing a little of our gain to help others. However I have digressed. I'll call your bluff, you want to stand and fight, okay. Become a subsistence farmer or low wage worker, deprive yourself of a few dietary requirements and then go stand against a corrupt state military or a terrorist/crime lord group that is too much for the state to handle...Oh btw, you are a subsistence farmer, so you'll be lucky if you have a hand axe or farming tool to defend yourself, and they'll have a good firearm. Go on, I bet you'd piss yourself if a armed group of men ordered you about and threatened your family with systematic torture and rape." so basically you are saying that all the other countries of the EU or Europe are more racist and dangerous than the UK? | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"The conditions are appalling there, people shouldn't have to live like that. Nobody asked them to live there, it's their own choosing I would bull doze the whole shit set up, electrify the fences and fuck them off back the African shit hole that they originated from Why too we waste billions processing and accommodating them, it should a simple your not needed, you have no language or other skills In an X Factor style should be just a simple It's a No!.. And what would you do if you saw your best friend raped for speaking their native language? What if you saw your civilian father being forced to walk in front of soldiers so that he would detonate any land mines that might have been placed there? What if you were forced to build a fence around your own village, to build your prison with your own hands? What if you were a subsistence farmer who could no longer work the fields because they had been sown with land mines? Ever met people that have suffered all of those things? Because I have. I don't blame them for wanting to flee from that. I would stay and fight! it is that simple. not run and hide. You might. And then you and your relatives might be dead. Or imprisoned. Or tortured. You brave hero. Not all of us are made of the same brave mettle that you are." Do you have absolutely no concept of defending yourself, family and home? It's a bloody good job the majority weren't like you in WW2 or we'd all be speaking German now. | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"The conditions are appalling there, people shouldn't have to live like that. Nobody asked them to live there, it's their own choosing I would bull doze the whole shit set up, electrify the fences and fuck them off back the African shit hole that they originated from Why too we waste billions processing and accommodating them, it should a simple your not needed, you have no language or other skills In an X Factor style should be just a simple It's a No!.. And what would you do if you saw your best friend raped for speaking their native language? What if you saw your civilian father being forced to walk in front of soldiers so that he would detonate any land mines that might have been placed there? What if you were forced to build a fence around your own village, to build your prison with your own hands? What if you were a subsistence farmer who could no longer work the fields because they had been sown with land mines? Ever met people that have suffered all of those things? Because I have. I don't blame them for wanting to flee from that. I would stay and fight! it is that simple. not run and hide. Before I get to your rather immature point, I'll just clarify, I get annoyed by those who clearly are just looking for an easy ride and the calais jungle is a stopping point. Especially since many people in the camp will be fleeing poverty brought on by environmental factors beyond their control or have fled conflicts or prejudice that the average Brit is not informed about, or wont hear about until they hear it on the BBC or in the telegraph, I have genuine sympathy for those who choose to take a dangerous journey to Europe, knowing that they face one of two options really. Option one stopping in most likely, Italy, France or Greece, perhaps Hungary, and if I were a non-Christian or atheist, and not European, I would not want to stop in any of those countries right now. Option two is willingly let yourself get trapped in the cesspit that is the Jungle, with a slim hope of asylum. As for solutions to solve the immigration issue in itself, it would be better if Britain and the west actually got involved whole-heartedly in these conflicts and environmental issues which are the root cause, so that citizens of that country can actually lift themselves out of poverty. However, this would require a big overseas aid package, and of course, as a nation we now seem to have some issues with sacrificing a little of our gain to help others. However I have digressed. I'll call your bluff, you want to stand and fight, okay. Become a subsistence farmer or low wage worker, deprive yourself of a few dietary requirements and then go stand against a corrupt state military or a terrorist/crime lord group that is too much for the state to handle...Oh btw, you are a subsistence farmer, so you'll be lucky if you have a hand axe or farming tool to defend yourself, and they'll have a good firearm. Go on, I bet you'd piss yourself if a armed group of men ordered you about and threatened your family with systematic torture and rape. so basically you are saying that all the other countries of the EU or Europe are more racist and dangerous than the UK?" No, I am saying that some groups of individuals, within some nations within the EU (If you can count I mentioned a fraction of those which are in the EU), are less tolerant of Islam. This religious bias often manifests itself in racial prejudice. To be honest if you read a history book you'll understand why Hungary, Poland, Italy, Spain and Greece - and the Balkans have a different relationship with Islam to us. Funnily enough, if you are a muslim, you probably don't want to go the Hungary whose Prime Minister said something like we don't want muslim refugees, and I believe Poland and Italy have the highest rates of white supremacists/anti Islam members within those affiliated organisations. | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"The conditions are appalling there, people shouldn't have to live like that. Nobody asked them to live there, it's their own choosing I would bull doze the whole shit set up, electrify the fences and fuck them off back the African shit hole that they originated from Why too we waste billions processing and accommodating them, it should a simple your not needed, you have no language or other skills In an X Factor style should be just a simple It's a No!.. And what would you do if you saw your best friend raped for speaking their native language? What if you saw your civilian father being forced to walk in front of soldiers so that he would detonate any land mines that might have been placed there? What if you were forced to build a fence around your own village, to build your prison with your own hands? What if you were a subsistence farmer who could no longer work the fields because they had been sown with land mines? Ever met people that have suffered all of those things? Because I have. I don't blame them for wanting to flee from that. I would stay and fight! it is that simple. not run and hide. You might. And then you and your relatives might be dead. Or imprisoned. Or tortured. You brave hero. Not all of us are made of the same brave mettle that you are. Do you have absolutely no concept of defending yourself, family and home? It's a bloody good job the majority weren't like you in WW2 or we'd all be speaking German now." If that scenario had happened in WW2 there would have been no option but to fight or face subjugation. However, if you look at history, people from other EUropean nations fed through Europe to the UK, if they had that option. There is a time to fight and a time to avoid conflict, in my opinion your not a good parent if you'd rather 'show the enemy what your made of' before you ensure that you children and wife are potentially escaping to a better place. | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
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" And were they refugees? And are they housed forever or short term? Was their need higher than others on the list? Were they housed in the best social housing available ? I doubt it. I'm just saying people see what they choose to see and not always things as they really are. " They are set up in a permanent council tenancy and the houses are checked for suitability by various agencies before the move in. They are also furnished to a certain extent and finished to a higher standard than someone would get if they were housed off the waiting list, i.e. decorated. I'm not going to get involved in whether it's right or wrong but in terms of having an honest debate it's only right that some facts are pointed out. | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"The conditions are appalling there, people shouldn't have to live like that. Nobody asked them to live there, it's their own choosing I would bull doze the whole shit set up, electrify the fences and fuck them off back the African shit hole that they originated from Why too we waste billions processing and accommodating them, it should a simple your not needed, you have no language or other skills In an X Factor style should be just a simple It's a No!.. And what would you do if you saw your best friend raped for speaking their native language? What if you saw your civilian father being forced to walk in front of soldiers so that he would detonate any land mines that might have been placed there? What if you were forced to build a fence around your own village, to build your prison with your own hands? What if you were a subsistence farmer who could no longer work the fields because they had been sown with land mines? Ever met people that have suffered all of those things? Because I have. I don't blame them for wanting to flee from that. I would stay and fight! it is that simple. not run and hide. Before I get to your rather immature point, I'll just clarify, I get annoyed by those who clearly are just looking for an easy ride and the calais jungle is a stopping point. Especially since many people in the camp will be fleeing poverty brought on by environmental factors beyond their control or have fled conflicts or prejudice that the average Brit is not informed about, or wont hear about until they hear it on the BBC or in the telegraph, I have genuine sympathy for those who choose to take a dangerous journey to Europe, knowing that they face one of two options really. Option one stopping in most likely, Italy, France or Greece, perhaps Hungary, and if I were a non-Christian or atheist, and not European, I would not want to stop in any of those countries right now. Option two is willingly let yourself get trapped in the cesspit that is the Jungle, with a slim hope of asylum. As for solutions to solve the immigration issue in itself, it would be better if Britain and the west actually got involved whole-heartedly in these conflicts and environmental issues which are the root cause, so that citizens of that country can actually lift themselves out of poverty. However, this would require a big overseas aid package, and of course, as a nation we now seem to have some issues with sacrificing a little of our gain to help others. However I have digressed. I'll call your bluff, you want to stand and fight, okay. Become a subsistence farmer or low wage worker, deprive yourself of a few dietary requirements and then go stand against a corrupt state military or a terrorist/crime lord group that is too much for the state to handle...Oh btw, you are a subsistence farmer, so you'll be lucky if you have a hand axe or farming tool to defend yourself, and they'll have a good firearm. Go on, I bet you'd piss yourself if a armed group of men ordered you about and threatened your family with systematic torture and rape. so basically you are saying that all the other countries of the EU or Europe are more racist and dangerous than the UK? No, I am saying that some groups of individuals, within some nations within the EU (If you can count I mentioned a fraction of those which are in the EU), are less tolerant of Islam. This religious bias often manifests itself in racial prejudice. To be honest if you read a history book you'll understand why Hungary, Poland, Italy, Spain and Greece - and the Balkans have a different relationship with Islam to us. Funnily enough, if you are a muslim, you probably don't want to go the Hungary whose Prime Minister said something like we don't want muslim refugees, and I believe Poland and Italy have the highest rates of white supremacists/anti Islam members within those affiliated organisations." that is basically what you are saying then. But ok, why don't they go to the countries that you didn't mention instead of choosing to live in the 'jungle' do you think? You mention the Balkans, now correct me if I'm wrong but isn't there a large Muslim population in those areas? And I have read plenty of history books thanks, I've probably forgotten more of the history of Spain than you will ever know | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"The conditions are appalling there, people shouldn't have to live like that. Nobody asked them to live there, it's their own choosing I would bull doze the whole shit set up, electrify the fences and fuck them off back the African shit hole that they originated from Why too we waste billions processing and accommodating them, it should a simple your not needed, you have no language or other skills In an X Factor style should be just a simple It's a No!.. And what would you do if you saw your best friend raped for speaking their native language? What if you saw your civilian father being forced to walk in front of soldiers so that he would detonate any land mines that might have been placed there? What if you were forced to build a fence around your own village, to build your prison with your own hands? What if you were a subsistence farmer who could no longer work the fields because they had been sown with land mines? Ever met people that have suffered all of those things? Because I have. I don't blame them for wanting to flee from that. I would stay and fight! it is that simple. not run and hide. Before I get to your rather immature point, I'll just clarify, I get annoyed by those who clearly are just looking for an easy ride and the calais jungle is a stopping point. Especially since many people in the camp will be fleeing poverty brought on by environmental factors beyond their control or have fled conflicts or prejudice that the average Brit is not informed about, or wont hear about until they hear it on the BBC or in the telegraph, I have genuine sympathy for those who choose to take a dangerous journey to Europe, knowing that they face one of two options really. Option one stopping in most likely, Italy, France or Greece, perhaps Hungary, and if I were a non-Christian or atheist, and not European, I would not want to stop in any of those countries right now. Option two is willingly let yourself get trapped in the cesspit that is the Jungle, with a slim hope of asylum. As for solutions to solve the immigration issue in itself, it would be better if Britain and the west actually got involved whole-heartedly in these conflicts and environmental issues which are the root cause, so that citizens of that country can actually lift themselves out of poverty. However, this would require a big overseas aid package, and of course, as a nation we now seem to have some issues with sacrificing a little of our gain to help others. However I have digressed. I'll call your bluff, you want to stand and fight, okay. Become a subsistence farmer or low wage worker, deprive yourself of a few dietary requirements and then go stand against a corrupt state military or a terrorist/crime lord group that is too much for the state to handle...Oh btw, you are a subsistence farmer, so you'll be lucky if you have a hand axe or farming tool to defend yourself, and they'll have a good firearm. Go on, I bet you'd piss yourself if a armed group of men ordered you about and threatened your family with systematic torture and rape. so basically you are saying that all the other countries of the EU or Europe are more racist and dangerous than the UK? No, I am saying that some groups of individuals, within some nations within the EU (If you can count I mentioned a fraction of those which are in the EU), are less tolerant of Islam. This religious bias often manifests itself in racial prejudice. To be honest if you read a history book you'll understand why Hungary, Poland, Italy, Spain and Greece - and the Balkans have a different relationship with Islam to us. Funnily enough, if you are a muslim, you probably don't want to go the Hungary whose Prime Minister said something like we don't want muslim refugees, and I believe Poland and Italy have the highest rates of white supremacists/anti Islam members within those affiliated organisations. that is basically what you are saying then. But ok, why don't they go to the countries that you didn't mention instead of choosing to live in the 'jungle' do you think? You mention the Balkans, now correct me if I'm wrong but isn't there a large Muslim population in those areas? And I have read plenty of history books thanks, I've probably forgotten more of the history of Spain than you will ever know" No, not really. And tbh there is evidence that a lot avoid the jungle all together. any West Africans do decide to try and make life in Spain, Italy and France work for example, same with those from Sub-saharan Africa. A good number go to Germany, the netherlands, Sweden and Denmark too. An explanation why France has the largest numbers in residence (I need to check this not sure if it is still true) is due to French colonialism in Africa, much the same with Britain. These are after all the two European powers the continent had the most exposure too, plus the most common second languages. Going to clarify, I am wiling to accept that some, not all, but some are looking for an easy ride. I'm not a person of absolutes. In regards to Spain, good for you for reading a book on the topic, but I doubt you know more, I dated a Spaniard long enough to have history books on the subject rehearsed to me. :P | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"The conditions are appalling there, people shouldn't have to live like that. Nobody asked them to live there, it's their own choosing I would bull doze the whole shit set up, electrify the fences and fuck them off back the African shit hole that they originated from Why too we waste billions processing and accommodating them, it should a simple your not needed, you have no language or other skills In an X Factor style should be just a simple It's a No!.. And what would you do if you saw your best friend raped for speaking their native language? What if you saw your civilian father being forced to walk in front of soldiers so that he would detonate any land mines that might have been placed there? What if you were forced to build a fence around your own village, to build your prison with your own hands? What if you were a subsistence farmer who could no longer work the fields because they had been sown with land mines? Ever met people that have suffered all of those things? Because I have. I don't blame them for wanting to flee from that. I would stay and fight! it is that simple. not run and hide. Before I get to your rather immature point, I'll just clarify, I get annoyed by those who clearly are just looking for an easy ride and the calais jungle is a stopping point. Especially since many people in the camp will be fleeing poverty brought on by environmental factors beyond their control or have fled conflicts or prejudice that the average Brit is not informed about, or wont hear about until they hear it on the BBC or in the telegraph, I have genuine sympathy for those who choose to take a dangerous journey to Europe, knowing that they face one of two options really. Option one stopping in most likely, Italy, France or Greece, perhaps Hungary, and if I were a non-Christian or atheist, and not European, I would not want to stop in any of those countries right now. Option two is willingly let yourself get trapped in the cesspit that is the Jungle, with a slim hope of asylum. As for solutions to solve the immigration issue in itself, it would be better if Britain and the west actually got involved whole-heartedly in these conflicts and environmental issues which are the root cause, so that citizens of that country can actually lift themselves out of poverty. However, this would require a big overseas aid package, and of course, as a nation we now seem to have some issues with sacrificing a little of our gain to help others. However I have digressed. I'll call your bluff, you want to stand and fight, okay. Become a subsistence farmer or low wage worker, deprive yourself of a few dietary requirements and then go stand against a corrupt state military or a terrorist/crime lord group that is too much for the state to handle...Oh btw, you are a subsistence farmer, so you'll be lucky if you have a hand axe or farming tool to defend yourself, and they'll have a good firearm. Go on, I bet you'd piss yourself if a armed group of men ordered you about and threatened your family with systematic torture and rape. so basically you are saying that all the other countries of the EU or Europe are more racist and dangerous than the UK? No, I am saying that some groups of individuals, within some nations within the EU (If you can count I mentioned a fraction of those which are in the EU), are less tolerant of Islam. This religious bias often manifests itself in racial prejudice. To be honest if you read a history book you'll understand why Hungary, Poland, Italy, Spain and Greece - and the Balkans have a different relationship with Islam to us. Funnily enough, if you are a muslim, you probably don't want to go the Hungary whose Prime Minister said something like we don't want muslim refugees, and I believe Poland and Italy have the highest rates of white supremacists/anti Islam members within those affiliated organisations. that is basically what you are saying then. But ok, why don't they go to the countries that you didn't mention instead of choosing to live in the 'jungle' do you think? You mention the Balkans, now correct me if I'm wrong but isn't there a large Muslim population in those areas? And I have read plenty of history books thanks, I've probably forgotten more of the history of Spain than you will ever know No, not really. And tbh there is evidence that a lot avoid the jungle all together. any West Africans do decide to try and make life in Spain, Italy and France work for example, same with those from Sub-saharan Africa. A good number go to Germany, the netherlands, Sweden and Denmark too. An explanation why France has the largest numbers in residence (I need to check this not sure if it is still true) is due to French colonialism in Africa, much the same with Britain. These are after all the two European powers the continent had the most exposure too, plus the most common second languages. Going to clarify, I am wiling to accept that some, not all, but some are looking for an easy ride. I'm not a person of absolutes. In regards to Spain, good for you for reading a book on the topic, but I doubt you know more, I dated a Spaniard long enough to have history books on the subject rehearsed to me. :P" good for me for reading a book on the topic?? Jeeez Pathetic. Again | |||
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" how much do they get in France?" Enough to pay for mobile phones by the look of it, every time it comes on telly and they show pictures of the "refugees" many are on phones | |||
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"The conditions are appalling there, people shouldn't have to live like that. Nobody asked them to live there, it's their own choosing I would bull doze the whole shit set up, electrify the fences and fuck them off back the African shit hole that they originated from Why too we waste billions processing and accommodating them, it should a simple your not needed, you have no language or other skills In an X Factor style should be just a simple It's a No!.. And what would you do if you saw your best friend raped for speaking their native language? What if you saw your civilian father being forced to walk in front of soldiers so that he would detonate any land mines that might have been placed there? What if you were forced to build a fence around your own village, to build your prison with your own hands? What if you were a subsistence farmer who could no longer work the fields because they had been sown with land mines? Ever met people that have suffered all of those things? Because I have. I don't blame them for wanting to flee from that. I would stay and fight! it is that simple. not run and hide. Before I get to your rather immature point, I'll just clarify, I get annoyed by those who clearly are just looking for an easy ride and the calais jungle is a stopping point. Especially since many people in the camp will be fleeing poverty brought on by environmental factors beyond their control or have fled conflicts or prejudice that the average Brit is not informed about, or wont hear about until they hear it on the BBC or in the telegraph, I have genuine sympathy for those who choose to take a dangerous journey to Europe, knowing that they face one of two options really. Option one stopping in most likely, Italy, France or Greece, perhaps Hungary, and if I were a non-Christian or atheist, and not European, I would not want to stop in any of those countries right now. Option two is willingly let yourself get trapped in the cesspit that is the Jungle, with a slim hope of asylum. As for solutions to solve the immigration issue in itself, it would be better if Britain and the west actually got involved whole-heartedly in these conflicts and environmental issues which are the root cause, so that citizens of that country can actually lift themselves out of poverty. However, this would require a big overseas aid package, and of course, as a nation we now seem to have some issues with sacrificing a little of our gain to help others. However I have digressed. I'll call your bluff, you want to stand and fight, okay. Become a subsistence farmer or low wage worker, deprive yourself of a few dietary requirements and then go stand against a corrupt state military or a terrorist/crime lord group that is too much for the state to handle...Oh btw, you are a subsistence farmer, so you'll be lucky if you have a hand axe or farming tool to defend yourself, and they'll have a good firearm. Go on, I bet you'd piss yourself if a armed group of men ordered you about and threatened your family with systematic torture and rape. so basically you are saying that all the other countries of the EU or Europe are more racist and dangerous than the UK? No, I am saying that some groups of individuals, within some nations within the EU (If you can count I mentioned a fraction of those which are in the EU), are less tolerant of Islam. This religious bias often manifests itself in racial prejudice. To be honest if you read a history book you'll understand why Hungary, Poland, Italy, Spain and Greece - and the Balkans have a different relationship with Islam to us. Funnily enough, if you are a muslim, you probably don't want to go the Hungary whose Prime Minister said something like we don't want muslim refugees, and I believe Poland and Italy have the highest rates of white supremacists/anti Islam members within those affiliated organisations. that is basically what you are saying then. But ok, why don't they go to the countries that you didn't mention instead of choosing to live in the 'jungle' do you think? You mention the Balkans, now correct me if I'm wrong but isn't there a large Muslim population in those areas? And I have read plenty of history books thanks, I've probably forgotten more of the history of Spain than you will ever know No, not really. And tbh there is evidence that a lot avoid the jungle all together. any West Africans do decide to try and make life in Spain, Italy and France work for example, same with those from Sub-saharan Africa. A good number go to Germany, the netherlands, Sweden and Denmark too. An explanation why France has the largest numbers in residence (I need to check this not sure if it is still true) is due to French colonialism in Africa, much the same with Britain. These are after all the two European powers the continent had the most exposure too, plus the most common second languages. Going to clarify, I am wiling to accept that some, not all, but some are looking for an easy ride. I'm not a person of absolutes. In regards to Spain, good for you for reading a book on the topic, but I doubt you know more, I dated a Spaniard long enough to have history books on the subject rehearsed to me. :P good for me for reading a book on the topic?? Jeeez Pathetic. Again" I was literally saying that it's nice to hear that you, in your spare time have been willing to look at past events. That shouldn't been seen as an insult. | |||
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"Some sympathetic sounding observations of why these people are in Calais. And yet none explain why they have passed through so many more suitable countries just to get to the UK. Apart from the other countries aren't very nice. the problems of the sub-sahara are not the UK's problems to the extent that we should open up our borders and let thousands and thousands of unskilled, apparently criminally and violent minded young men into our society. To suggest that ANY of these people have any rights to enter the UK just ignores UN, International and EU law completely. So thats OK then .. This country is doing more than any other EU country in looking after REAL refugees in Lebanon, Turkey and Jordan. Our contribution is only shaded by the USA. We bring to the UK directly from those refugee camps complete families including children. 20,000 will be brought here at UK taxpayers expense, housed, fed and looked after which is what should happen to genuine refugees. The UK has NOTHING to be ashamed of so I won't buy the guilt trip of the liberal left who want us to just let in 10,000 people from Calais. And when they are here another 10,000 and another 10,000. Because once the word spreads we are a bunch of mugs the world will be tramping across Europe to set up MORE 'Jungles Camps' in Calais.... "I'm not actually saying we should take the burden, I'm actually willing to admit that amongst Europe and the west we do a hell of a lot, especially in the case of the syrian crisis (though given that we have two opportunities to pull genuine families of refugees who we can scrutinise rigorously, I'd say we should take more in, especially those with children.) What I am saying is that Europe and the west needs to wake up to the roots of what cause people to actually seek refuge elsewhere. Following this there needs to be teams organised to actually tackle these issues. Otherwise ever decade there'll just be a new migration crisis, which some people will sadly see as an opportunity to exploit for an easier life, and then we just have the same spin cycle over and over. | |||
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"The conditions are appalling there, people shouldn't have to live like that. Nobody asked them to live there, it's their own choosing I would bull doze the whole shit set up, electrify the fences and fuck them off back the African shit hole that they originated from Why too we waste billions processing and accommodating them, it should a simple your not needed, you have no language or other skills In an X Factor style should be just a simple It's a No!.. And what would you do if you saw your best friend raped for speaking their native language? What if you saw your civilian father being forced to walk in front of soldiers so that he would detonate any land mines that might have been placed there? What if you were forced to build a fence around your own village, to build your prison with your own hands? What if you were a subsistence farmer who could no longer work the fields because they had been sown with land mines? Ever met people that have suffered all of those things? Because I have. I don't blame them for wanting to flee from that. I would stay and fight! it is that simple. not run and hide. Before I get to your rather immature point, I'll just clarify, I get annoyed by those who clearly are just looking for an easy ride and the calais jungle is a stopping point. Especially since many people in the camp will be fleeing poverty brought on by environmental factors beyond their control or have fled conflicts or prejudice that the average Brit is not informed about, or wont hear about until they hear it on the BBC or in the telegraph, I have genuine sympathy for those who choose to take a dangerous journey to Europe, knowing that they face one of two options really. Option one stopping in most likely, Italy, France or Greece, perhaps Hungary, and if I were a non-Christian or atheist, and not European, I would not want to stop in any of those countries right now. Option two is willingly let yourself get trapped in the cesspit that is the Jungle, with a slim hope of asylum. As for solutions to solve the immigration issue in itself, it would be better if Britain and the west actually got involved whole-heartedly in these conflicts and environmental issues which are the root cause, so that citizens of that country can actually lift themselves out of poverty. However, this would require a big overseas aid package, and of course, as a nation we now seem to have some issues with sacrificing a little of our gain to help others. However I have digressed. I'll call your bluff, you want to stand and fight, okay. Become a subsistence farmer or low wage worker, deprive yourself of a few dietary requirements and then go stand against a corrupt state military or a terrorist/crime lord group that is too much for the state to handle...Oh btw, you are a subsistence farmer, so you'll be lucky if you have a hand axe or farming tool to defend yourself, and they'll have a good firearm. Go on, I bet you'd piss yourself if a armed group of men ordered you about and threatened your family with systematic torture and rape. so basically you are saying that all the other countries of the EU or Europe are more racist and dangerous than the UK? No, I am saying that some groups of individuals, within some nations within the EU (If you can count I mentioned a fraction of those which are in the EU), are less tolerant of Islam. This religious bias often manifests itself in racial prejudice. To be honest if you read a history book you'll understand why Hungary, Poland, Italy, Spain and Greece - and the Balkans have a different relationship with Islam to us. Funnily enough, if you are a muslim, you probably don't want to go the Hungary whose Prime Minister said something like we don't want muslim refugees, and I believe Poland and Italy have the highest rates of white supremacists/anti Islam members within those affiliated organisations. that is basically what you are saying then. But ok, why don't they go to the countries that you didn't mention instead of choosing to live in the 'jungle' do you think? You mention the Balkans, now correct me if I'm wrong but isn't there a large Muslim population in those areas? And I have read plenty of history books thanks, I've probably forgotten more of the history of Spain than you will ever know No, not really. And tbh there is evidence that a lot avoid the jungle all together. any West Africans do decide to try and make life in Spain, Italy and France work for example, same with those from Sub-saharan Africa. A good number go to Germany, the netherlands, Sweden and Denmark too. An explanation why France has the largest numbers in residence (I need to check this not sure if it is still true) is due to French colonialism in Africa, much the same with Britain. These are after all the two European powers the continent had the most exposure too, plus the most common second languages. Going to clarify, I am wiling to accept that some, not all, but some are looking for an easy ride. I'm not a person of absolutes. In regards to Spain, good for you for reading a book on the topic, but I doubt you know more, I dated a Spaniard long enough to have history books on the subject rehearsed to me. :P good for me for reading a book on the topic?? Jeeez Pathetic. Again I was literally saying that it's nice to hear that you, in your spare time have been willing to look at past events. That shouldn't been seen as an insult." Why, when it was meant as an insult? I've read numerous books and seen plenty of documentaries on the history of Spain. I've lived there for several years, still have a home there and have visited museums and galleries in towns and cities from Andorra through to San Sebastian, Guernica, Barcelona, Madrid, Valencia, Alicante, Toledo, Palma, Sevilla and Granada, so have actually seen the history. But if you think you know the reasom why Islamic migrants are reluctant to settle in countries like this then fair enough. You say that some migrants are looking for an easy ride, so are they the ones who are trying to get to the UK? | |||
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"Wow. Such intolerance. I am pretty sure that very few people are going to choose to live in conditions like that without a bloody good reason. Such as? What is so wrong with living in mainland Europe that they would choose to live in those conditions in an attempt to get to the UK? Why would they want to come to a country full of xenophobes and soon to be out of the wonderful EU? Lets be honest, why are they so desperate to get to the UK? front of the queue for a council house, benefits, health care, corrupt business opportunities, crime opportunities with laxed easy punishment if caught, we could go on . and on . and on It's a misconception regarding council housing, benefits and healthcare , asylum seekers don't go to front of the queue. It's the same for EU citizens who come here. Statistics will tell you that. The media hypes it all up and get it wrong time and time again. If the media have it so wrong why have these apparently poor, innocent 'refugees' gone past safer Muslim countries like Jordan, Egypt, Lebanon, Turkey, Algeria, Morocco even Tunisia and then EU and European countries like Greece, Serbia, Bulgaria, Romania, Hungary, Slovakia, Czech., Croatia, Slovenia, Austria, Germany, Italy, Switzerland, France, Belgium, Spain....... to get to the UK? Once those magic words "I claim Asylum" are uttered here they are given everything they never had before. THAT is why they are heading here. Are ANY of the European countries listed here in any way 'unsafe' or 'war torn' or whatever? No. But they have shit Welfare systems or take a very hard line on Asylum. I get your frustration at them avoiding countries like Jordan, Turkey, Lebanon and Morrocco if they can pass through them - but I'll point out that Tunisia and Algeria share southern borders which connect with many of the sub-saharan/west african 'trouble spots'. These southern borders are currently having problems dealing with ISIS, and their supported terrorist/militia groups such as Boko Haram. So realistically if I am someone escaping conflict I would avoid that like the plague. Unless you get on a boat on the atlantic coast, you are likely going to have to cross at the Med somewhere, that will take you to france, Italy, Greece or perhaps Hungry. All of these countries over the last 5 years have developed aggressive right wing groups who are more than happy to attack non-whites, so if I were escaping conflict I'd break rules (if I know of them)to get to a more culturally tolerant country." Refugees do not avoid Turkey, Lebanon and Jordan. There are more refugees in those countries than will ever dream of coming to Europe. As for other posters who complain that the refugee/migrants don't stop in the first safe country - why would Greece or Italy accept all refugees? Did Greece and Italy bomb the shit out of Iraq, Libya and Syria? Did Greece and Italy invade Afghanistan and Iraq? Have Greece and Italy been more responsible than the UK for creating the power vacuum that has enabled the radical fundamentalists to take hold and terrorise Syria, Iraq and Libya? Sometimes when you take a shit, you need to be responsible for clearing up your own mess. The U.K. has been at least partly responsible for what has happened and as we took the lead in bombing, we need to take the lead in resolving the migrant/refugee crisis. | |||
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"Why are they so desperate to get here, simples, easy money, they'll want for nothing. Just my opinion. Jim " And whose fault is that? And who can change that? Clue - not the migrant/refugees. | |||
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"Wow. Such intolerance. I am pretty sure that very few people are going to choose to live in conditions like that without a bloody good reason. Such as? What is so wrong with living in mainland Europe that they would choose to live in those conditions in an attempt to get to the UK? Why would they want to come to a country full of xenophobes and soon to be out of the wonderful EU? Lets be honest, why are they so desperate to get to the UK? front of the queue for a council house, benefits, health care, corrupt business opportunities, crime opportunities with laxed easy punishment if caught, we could go on . and on . and on It's a misconception regarding council housing, benefits and healthcare , asylum seekers don't go to front of the queue. It's the same for EU citizens who come here. Statistics will tell you that. The media hypes it all up and get it wrong time and time again. so can you answer the question then? Why are they so desperate to get to the UK? Maybe they thought we were more accepting. Being an illegal immigrant here is not an easy option. If you’ve been refused asylum you'll get £35.39 per person per week on a payment card for food, clothing and toiletries. Not going to get you far is it really. Your right it won't get you far but if you have come from a country like west Africa where there is no social system in place to help the £35.39 for every member of your family per week is a huge increase on basically nothing. " If it was being spent in West Africa yes, but that money is spent in the UK. | |||
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"We won't have to do a thing about The jungle. The locals have had enough but more importantly the French Truckers have had enough. And trust me when the the French Truckers demand action on threat of a strike French Governments give in. They can shut down France in 3 days! And there is a Presidential election coming up soon and truckers and Calais locals are voters. We can just sit back and watch .... "I agree, but I don't share your confidence that the problem will then be solved. Once the UK border moves back to the UK from France - which I think will happen after the French elections you will see migrants on dinghies and boats crossing the channel just as you are seeing in the Med. The French want the UK to deal with the people who want to go to the UK and the French Nationilsts see this as a uk problem that the French are suffering because of. Big money to be made in France next summer flogging boats, dinghies and life jackets to refugee/migrants and don't expect the French to give a shit. | |||
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"Wow. Such intolerance. I am pretty sure that very few people are going to choose to live in conditions like that without a bloody good reason. Such as? What is so wrong with living in mainland Europe that they would choose to live in those conditions in an attempt to get to the UK? Why would they want to come to a country full of xenophobes and soon to be out of the wonderful EU? Lets be honest, why are they so desperate to get to the UK? front of the queue for a council house, benefits, health care, corrupt business opportunities, crime opportunities with laxed easy punishment if caught, we could go on . and on . and on It's a misconception regarding council housing, benefits and healthcare , asylum seekers don't go to front of the queue. It's the same for EU citizens who come here. Statistics will tell you that. The media hypes it all up and get it wrong time and time again. If the media have it so wrong why have these apparently poor, innocent 'refugees' gone past safer Muslim countries like Jordan, Egypt, Lebanon, Turkey, Algeria, Morocco even Tunisia and then EU and European countries like Greece, Serbia, Bulgaria, Romania, Hungary, Slovakia, Czech., Croatia, Slovenia, Austria, Germany, Italy, Switzerland, France, Belgium, Spain....... to get to the UK? Once those magic words "I claim Asylum" are uttered here they are given everything they never had before. THAT is why they are heading here. Are ANY of the European countries listed here in any way 'unsafe' or 'war torn' or whatever? No. But they have shit Welfare systems or take a very hard line on Asylum. I get your frustration at them avoiding countries like Jordan, Turkey, Lebanon and Morrocco if they can pass through them - but I'll point out that Tunisia and Algeria share southern borders which connect with many of the sub-saharan/west african 'trouble spots'. These southern borders are currently having problems dealing with ISIS, and their supported terrorist/militia groups such as Boko Haram. So realistically if I am someone escaping conflict I would avoid that like the plague. Unless you get on a boat on the atlantic coast, you are likely going to have to cross at the Med somewhere, that will take you to france, Italy, Greece or perhaps Hungry. All of these countries over the last 5 years have developed aggressive right wing groups who are more than happy to attack non-whites, so if I were escaping conflict I'd break rules (if I know of them)to get to a more culturally tolerant country. Refugees do not avoid Turkey, Lebanon and Jordan. There are more refugees in those countries than will ever dream of coming to Europe. As for other posters who complain that the refugee/migrants don't stop in the first safe country - why would Greece or Italy accept all refugees? Did Greece and Italy bomb the shit out of Iraq, Libya and Syria? Did Greece and Italy invade Afghanistan and Iraq? Have Greece and Italy been more responsible than the UK for creating the power vacuum that has enabled the radical fundamentalists to take hold and terrorise Syria, Iraq and Libya? Sometimes when you take a shit, you need to be responsible for clearing up your own mess. The U.K. has been at least partly responsible for what has happened and as we took the lead in bombing, we need to take the lead in resolving the migrant/refugee crisis." What percentage of the refugees in Calais did we bomb? | |||
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"We won't have to do a thing about The jungle. The locals have had enough but more importantly the French Truckers have had enough. And trust me when the the French Truckers demand action on threat of a strike French Governments give in. They can shut down France in 3 days! And there is a Presidential election coming up soon and truckers and Calais locals are voters. We can just sit back and watch ....
I agree, but I don't share your confidence that the problem will then be solved. Once the UK border moves back to the UK from France - which I think will happen after the French elections you will see migrants on dinghies and boats crossing the channel just as you are seeing in the Med.
The French want the UK to deal with the people who want to go to the UK and the French Nationilsts see this as a uk problem that the French are suffering because of.
Big money to be made in France next summer flogging boats, dinghies and life jackets to refugee/migrants and don't expect the French to give a shit."made sense to leave the EU then eh | |||
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"I'm not really bothered where the border is,just that it is enforced" Absolutely....the French messed up by letting them in their country at the southern borders. How on earth is it our problem? | |||
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"We won't have to do a thing about The jungle. The locals have had enough but more importantly the French Truckers have had enough. And trust me when the the French Truckers demand action on threat of a strike French Governments give in. They can shut down France in 3 days! And there is a Presidential election coming up soon and truckers and Calais locals are voters. We can just sit back and watch ....
I agree, but I don't share your confidence that the problem will then be solved. Once the UK border moves back to the UK from France - which I think will happen after the French elections you will see migrants on dinghies and boats crossing the channel just as you are seeing in the Med.
The French want the UK to deal with the people who want to go to the UK and the French Nationilsts see this as a uk problem that the French are suffering because of.
Big money to be made in France next summer flogging boats, dinghies and life jackets to refugee/migrants and don't expect the French to give a shit."The English channel is not the same as the Mediterranean sea though, its a lot smaller for a start and our border force can patrol and police the English channel a lot better than the Med can be policed. People can slip into the Med quite easily undetected, but the English channel is a different kettle of fish entirely as it's one of the busiest shipping routes in the world. | |||
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"Wow. Such intolerance. I am pretty sure that very few people are going to choose to live in conditions like that without a bloody good reason. Such as? What is so wrong with living in mainland Europe that they would choose to live in those conditions in an attempt to get to the UK? Why would they want to come to a country full of xenophobes and soon to be out of the wonderful EU? Lets be honest, why are they so desperate to get to the UK? front of the queue for a council house, benefits, health care, corrupt business opportunities, crime opportunities with laxed easy punishment if caught, we could go on . and on . and on It's a misconception regarding council housing, benefits and healthcare , asylum seekers don't go to front of the queue. It's the same for EU citizens who come here. Statistics will tell you that. The media hypes it all up and get it wrong time and time again. If the media have it so wrong why have these apparently poor, innocent 'refugees' gone past safer Muslim countries like Jordan, Egypt, Lebanon, Turkey, Algeria, Morocco even Tunisia and then EU and European countries like Greece, Serbia, Bulgaria, Romania, Hungary, Slovakia, Czech., Croatia, Slovenia, Austria, Germany, Italy, Switzerland, France, Belgium, Spain....... to get to the UK? Once those magic words "I claim Asylum" are uttered here they are given everything they never had before. THAT is why they are heading here. Are ANY of the European countries listed here in any way 'unsafe' or 'war torn' or whatever? No. But they have shit Welfare systems or take a very hard line on Asylum. I get your frustration at them avoiding countries like Jordan, Turkey, Lebanon and Morrocco if they can pass through them - but I'll point out that Tunisia and Algeria share southern borders which connect with many of the sub-saharan/west african 'trouble spots'. These southern borders are currently having problems dealing with ISIS, and their supported terrorist/militia groups such as Boko Haram. So realistically if I am someone escaping conflict I would avoid that like the plague. Unless you get on a boat on the atlantic coast, you are likely going to have to cross at the Med somewhere, that will take you to france, Italy, Greece or perhaps Hungry. All of these countries over the last 5 years have developed aggressive right wing groups who are more than happy to attack non-whites, so if I were escaping conflict I'd break rules (if I know of them)to get to a more culturally tolerant country. Refugees do not avoid Turkey, Lebanon and Jordan. There are more refugees in those countries than will ever dream of coming to Europe. As for other posters who complain that the refugee/migrants don't stop in the first safe country - why would Greece or Italy accept all refugees? Did Greece and Italy bomb the shit out of Iraq, Libya and Syria? Did Greece and Italy invade Afghanistan and Iraq? Have Greece and Italy been more responsible than the UK for creating the power vacuum that has enabled the radical fundamentalists to take hold and terrorise Syria, Iraq and Libya? Sometimes when you take a shit, you need to be responsible for clearing up your own mess. The U.K. has been at least partly responsible for what has happened and as we took the lead in bombing, we need to take the lead in resolving the migrant/refugee crisis." I thought it was the USA who took the lead role in the bombing? Using that logic shouldn't the USA be taking more refugees then? | |||
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"For the record we haven't bombed Syria. In fact we told Obama to do one when he wanted us to join the USA lobbing Tomahawk missiles. Interesting how he suddenly lost interest when we did say no ..... In Afghanistan we had and have the support of the legitimate Government who saw the destruction the Taliban were creating and needed help to get rid of the Taliban. Yes we went to war in Iraq on dodgy evidence and, IMHO, it was an illegal war. But given we freed the Iraqis from a vicious murdering regime I doubt they are too upset. What has happened since with the growth of ISIS territory is down to their own military not being up to the job. And why we are still there now and removing yet another vicious murdering regime. Same in Libya. I am not sure what guilt we should have in Somalia or Eritrea to be honest... So for the arse in the pool to lecture us on how we should open our borders to thousands of armed, criminal and vicious young men of no known background is a bit bloody rich ... "If you don't even know that we are bombing Syria how can anything else you have said be taken seriously? I don't think that I said we should open our borders I said take the lead in resolving the crisis. Hiding behind the English Channel and blaming the migrants, or the EU or the French is just pathetic. People run away from their homes when all hope is lost. We need to be leading the world in making their homes safe for them again. Sudan has been suffering civil war and famine since we were all asked to feed the world and so it is no surprising that people are leaving. Meanwhile we get Xenophobes in this country demanding that foreign aid is cut AND complain at the same time that people leave the worlds shitholes in look for a better life. Foreign Aid could and should be spent better and more wisely so that people do not lose all hope. That just brings problems from another part of the world on to our own doorstep. | |||
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" If you don't even know that we are bombing Syria how can anything else you have said be taken seriously? " If you don't know the difference between Syria and ISIS how can anything else you say be taken seriously? See it works both ways? Difference is We have never bombed any part of Syria before we agreed to bomb specific ISIS targets. And as it happens the RAF have the best record of all participants for accuracy and has zero collateral casualties. Unlike the Yanks we are happy to bring back unused bombs rather than just offload plus we use far more accurate weapons like Brimstone. | |||
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" If you don't even know that we are bombing Syria how can anything else you have said be taken seriously? If you don't know the difference between Syria and ISIS how can anything else you say be taken seriously? See it works both ways? Difference is We have never bombed any part of Syria before we agreed to bomb specific ISIS targets. And as it happens the RAF have the best record of all participants for accuracy and has zero collateral casualties. Unlike the Yanks we are happy to bring back unused bombs rather than just offload plus we use far more accurate weapons like Brimstone." Quick Google search eh??? Oops we are bombing Syria after all.... | |||
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"For the record we haven't bombed Syria. In fact we told Obama to do one when he wanted us to join the USA lobbing Tomahawk missiles. Interesting how he suddenly lost interest when we did say no ..... In Afghanistan we had and have the support of the legitimate Government who saw the destruction the Taliban were creating and needed help to get rid of the Taliban. Yes we went to war in Iraq on dodgy evidence and, IMHO, it was an illegal war. But given we freed the Iraqis from a vicious murdering regime I doubt they are too upset. What has happened since with the growth of ISIS territory is down to their own military not being up to the job. And why we are still there now and removing yet another vicious murdering regime. Same in Libya. I am not sure what guilt we should have in Somalia or Eritrea to be honest... So for the arse in the pool to lecture us on how we should open our borders to thousands of armed, criminal and vicious young men of no known background is a bit bloody rich ...
If you don't even know that we are bombing Syria how can anything else you have said be taken seriously?
I don't think that I said we should open our borders I said take the lead in resolving the crisis. Hiding behind the English Channel and blaming the migrants, or the EU or the French is just pathetic.
People run away from their homes when all hope is lost. We need to be leading the world in making their homes safe for them again. Sudan has been suffering civil war and famine since we were all asked to feed the world and so it is no surprising that people are leaving. Meanwhile we get Xenophobes in this country demanding that foreign aid is cut AND complain at the same time that people leave the worlds shitholes in look for a better life.
Foreign Aid could and should be spent better and more wisely so that people do not lose all hope. That just brings problems from another part of the world on our own doorstep."Why is this an issue in France and not the Netherlands? I can easily goto France without my passport. Could be that it's a 14 hour journey from here. Still I question the media hype. | |||
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"For those who say they should be willing to stay and fight. Tell me who they have to fight? Are you willing to be tortured for going against the government? Or attacked by fighting ISIS or the rebels? Or hide from the bombings from the sky from other interfering nations? Our nature is to survive." Forgot the context. I was talking about the Syria comment. | |||
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" If you don't even know that we are bombing Syria how can anything else you have said be taken seriously? If you don't know the difference between Syria and ISIS how can anything else you say be taken seriously? See it works both ways? Difference is We have never bombed any part of Syria before we agreed to bomb specific ISIS targets. And as it happens the RAF have the best record of all participants for accuracy and has zero collateral casualties. Unlike the Yanks we are happy to bring back unused bombs rather than just offload plus we use far more accurate weapons like Brimstone. Quick Google search eh??? Oops we are bombing Syria after all...." Oh dear... sarcasm at its worst. Especially when you clearly never Googled at all ... Oops. The RAF are bombing specific ISIS related targets in both Iraq and Syria. They are NOT bombing the Nation States of Iraq or Syria in the way you are trying to twist it. Nice try but that was a bit of a foot / mouth interface moment | |||
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" If you don't even know that we are bombing Syria how can anything else you have said be taken seriously? If you don't know the difference between Syria and ISIS how can anything else you say be taken seriously? See it works both ways? Difference is We have never bombed any part of Syria before we agreed to bomb specific ISIS targets. And as it happens the RAF have the best record of all participants for accuracy and has zero collateral casualties. Unlike the Yanks we are happy to bring back unused bombs rather than just offload plus we use far more accurate weapons like Brimstone. Quick Google search eh??? Oops we are bombing Syria after all.... Oh dear... sarcasm at its worst. Especially when you clearly never Googled at all ... Oops. The RAF are bombing specific ISIS related targets in both Iraq and Syria. They are NOT bombing the Nation States of Iraq or Syria in the way you are trying to twist it. Nice try but that was a bit of a foot / mouth interface moment "So by your logic, we have not bombed Libya, Iraq or Aghanistan? We have only precision targeted the bad guys so that is not really dropping bombs on the country, just the combatants. That said, if we pursue your line of thinking the bombs dropped in terrorist held areas of Raqqa and the oilfields could have killed innocent civilians. When the Allies bombed Nazi held Europe in the 1940's it didn't mean that everyone in those areas were Nazi's. It is just not possible to know whether drivers and crane operators were civilians just trying to earn a living or fighters... Or maybe the civilians were just too terrified to stay and ran away to Turkey, Greece, France ... Calais even. | |||
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" If you don't even know that we are bombing Syria how can anything else you have said be taken seriously? If you don't know the difference between Syria and ISIS how can anything else you say be taken seriously? See it works both ways? Difference is We have never bombed any part of Syria before we agreed to bomb specific ISIS targets. And as it happens the RAF have the best record of all participants for accuracy and has zero collateral casualties. Unlike the Yanks we are happy to bring back unused bombs rather than just offload plus we use far more accurate weapons like Brimstone. Quick Google search eh??? Oops we are bombing Syria after all.... Oh dear... sarcasm at its worst. Especially when you clearly never Googled at all ... Oops. The RAF are bombing specific ISIS related targets in both Iraq and Syria. They are NOT bombing the Nation States of Iraq or Syria in the way you are trying to twist it. Nice try but that was a bit of a foot / mouth interface moment
So by your logic, we have not bombed Libya, Iraq or Aghanistan? We have only precision targeted the bad guys so that is not really dropping bombs on the country, just the combatants.
That said, if we pursue your line of thinking the bombs dropped in terrorist held areas of Raqqa and the oilfields could have killed innocent civilians. When the Allies bombed Nazi held Europe in the 1940's it didn't mean that everyone in those areas were Nazi's.
It is just not possible to know whether drivers and crane operators were civilians just trying to earn a living or fighters... Or maybe the civilians were just too terrified to stay and ran away to Turkey, Greece, France ... Calais even. "why Calais? and how many migrants do we let in to the UK before you become a xenophobe? | |||
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" If you don't even know that we are bombing Syria how can anything else you have said be taken seriously? If you don't know the difference between Syria and ISIS how can anything else you say be taken seriously? See it works both ways? Difference is We have never bombed any part of Syria before we agreed to bomb specific ISIS targets. And as it happens the RAF have the best record of all participants for accuracy and has zero collateral casualties. Unlike the Yanks we are happy to bring back unused bombs rather than just offload plus we use far more accurate weapons like Brimstone. Quick Google search eh??? Oops we are bombing Syria after all.... Oh dear... sarcasm at its worst. Especially when you clearly never Googled at all ... Oops. The RAF are bombing specific ISIS related targets in both Iraq and Syria. They are NOT bombing the Nation States of Iraq or Syria in the way you are trying to twist it. Nice try but that was a bit of a foot / mouth interface moment
So by your logic, we have not bombed Libya, Iraq or Aghanistan? We have only precision targeted the bad guys so that is not really dropping bombs on the country, just the combatants.
That said, if we pursue your line of thinking the bombs dropped in terrorist held areas of Raqqa and the oilfields could have killed innocent civilians. When the Allies bombed Nazi held Europe in the 1940's it didn't mean that everyone in those areas were Nazi's.
It is just not possible to know whether drivers and crane operators were civilians just trying to earn a living or fighters... Or maybe the civilians were just too terrified to stay and ran away to Turkey, Greece, France ... Calais even.
why Calais?
and how many migrants do we let in to the UK before you become a xenophobe?"How many did it take for you? | |||
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" If you don't even know that we are bombing Syria how can anything else you have said be taken seriously? If you don't know the difference between Syria and ISIS how can anything else you say be taken seriously? See it works both ways? Difference is We have never bombed any part of Syria before we agreed to bomb specific ISIS targets. And as it happens the RAF have the best record of all participants for accuracy and has zero collateral casualties. Unlike the Yanks we are happy to bring back unused bombs rather than just offload plus we use far more accurate weapons like Brimstone. Quick Google search eh??? Oops we are bombing Syria after all.... Oh dear... sarcasm at its worst. Especially when you clearly never Googled at all ... Oops. The RAF are bombing specific ISIS related targets in both Iraq and Syria. They are NOT bombing the Nation States of Iraq or Syria in the way you are trying to twist it. Nice try but that was a bit of a foot / mouth interface moment
So by your logic, we have not bombed Libya, Iraq or Aghanistan? We have only precision targeted the bad guys so that is not really dropping bombs on the country, just the combatants.
That said, if we pursue your line of thinking the bombs dropped in terrorist held areas of Raqqa and the oilfields could have killed innocent civilians. When the Allies bombed Nazi held Europe in the 1940's it didn't mean that everyone in those areas were Nazi's.
It is just not possible to know whether drivers and crane operators were civilians just trying to earn a living or fighters... Or maybe the civilians were just too terrified to stay and ran away to Turkey, Greece, France ... Calais even.
why Calais?
and how many migrants do we let in to the UK before you become a xenophobe?"I think the UK has already done more than enough and I think we have already exceeded our fair share of the burden. We have taken 20,000 genuine refugees who are most in need direct from the camps in the middle east region and the UK has been the highest contributor in terms of humanitarian aid funding in the EU for the refugee camps. The so called refugees in the jungle camp at Calais are nothing more than economic migrants and chancers looking for a life of Riley here in the UK on benefits and anything else they can get here for free, and it appears they are willing to break international laws and rules on claiming asylum and commit acts of intimidation, violence, vandalism and criminal damage to get here. Nothing more than common criminals and thugs. | |||
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" If you don't even know that we are bombing Syria how can anything else you have said be taken seriously? If you don't know the difference between Syria and ISIS how can anything else you say be taken seriously? See it works both ways? Difference is We have never bombed any part of Syria before we agreed to bomb specific ISIS targets. And as it happens the RAF have the best record of all participants for accuracy and has zero collateral casualties. Unlike the Yanks we are happy to bring back unused bombs rather than just offload plus we use far more accurate weapons like Brimstone. Quick Google search eh??? Oops we are bombing Syria after all.... Oh dear... sarcasm at its worst. Especially when you clearly never Googled at all ... Oops. The RAF are bombing specific ISIS related targets in both Iraq and Syria. They are NOT bombing the Nation States of Iraq or Syria in the way you are trying to twist it. Nice try but that was a bit of a foot / mouth interface moment
So by your logic, we have not bombed Libya, Iraq or Aghanistan? We have only precision targeted the bad guys so that is not really dropping bombs on the country, just the combatants.
That said, if we pursue your line of thinking the bombs dropped in terrorist held areas of Raqqa and the oilfields could have killed innocent civilians. When the Allies bombed Nazi held Europe in the 1940's it didn't mean that everyone in those areas were Nazi's.
It is just not possible to know whether drivers and crane operators were civilians just trying to earn a living or fighters... Or maybe the civilians were just too terrified to stay and ran away to Turkey, Greece, France ... Calais even.
why Calais?
and how many migrants do we let in to the UK before you become a xenophobe?
How many did it take for you? "so you are calling me a xenophobe are you? As others have said, your stupidity knows no bounds. I asked the question because the poster above accuses anyone of wanting to control immigration or to get tough with illegal economic migrants as being a xenophobe when that is not the case. I asked the question of how many migrants should be let in, into their town, their street, their home, before they start to object/complain, which they assuredly would at some point, therefore becoming the 'xenophobes' they accuse other people of being. I can remember asking you the same question but you couldn't answer. Was that because you realise that at some point you will become a so called xenophobe? | |||
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" I asked the question because the poster above accuses anyone of wanting to control immigration or to get tough with illegal economic migrants as being a xenophobe when that is not the case. I asked the question of how many migrants should be let in, into their town, their street, their home, before they start to object/complain, which they assuredly would at some point, therefore becoming the 'xenophobes' they accuse other people of being. I can remember asking you the same question but you couldn't answer. Was that because you realise that at some point you will become a so called xenophobe?" Now, now... What I said was: Meanwhile we get xenophobes in this country demanding that foreign aid is cut AND complain at the same time that people leave the worlds shitholes in look for a better life. | |||
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" I asked the question because the poster above accuses anyone of wanting to control immigration or to get tough with illegal economic migrants as being a xenophobe when that is not the case. I asked the question of how many migrants should be let in, into their town, their street, their home, before they start to object/complain, which they assuredly would at some point, therefore becoming the 'xenophobes' they accuse other people of being. I can remember asking you the same question but you couldn't answer. Was that because you realise that at some point you will become a so called xenophobe? Now, now... What I said was: Meanwhile we get xenophobes in this country demanding that foreign aid is cut AND complain at the same time that people leave the worlds shitholes in look for a better life." haven't seen any foreign aid handed to the UK, or does it just go one way
no assistance with flooding either
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" no assistance with flooding either " The dutch loaned the uk the water pumps during the floods. They also gave advise on avoiding flooding. Foreign aid is not just about the money. http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-30339000 | |||
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"A question for all of the people who are saying that we should allow in and house the young men who are all trying to get into the uk. How many of you are happy for 4-5 of them being housed in the house right next door to you? Or is this a case of oh we must do something as long as they are not next door to me ?" okay, I will take one, I will room him in my outhouse, but he must be a good cleaner and ensure the house is kept in pristine condition, he will hand wash dishes, and be at my call 24/7, he should also be prepared to take a whipping should he step out of line, no payment for this, his work will earn his lodgings, if indeed he works hard enough, I say he, because as you say its mostly young adults not prepared to fight for their own country. | |||
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" no assistance with flooding either The dutch loaned the uk the water pumps during the floods. They also gave advise on avoiding flooding. Foreign aid is not just about the money. http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-30339000 " well that sounds bloody good for us, perhaps we should just give advice rather than billions, I am sure the majority of UK would agree here | |||
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"A question for all of the people who are saying that we should allow in and house the young men who are all trying to get into the uk. How many of you are happy for 4-5 of them being housed in the house right next door to you? Or is this a case of oh we must do something as long as they are not next door to me ?" Why would I care if 4-5 were housed next to me? In fact I would probably like it, I could volunteer my time to help them to learn English, register with a GP, explain British culture and customs and a million other little things. I have done this in past and have also lived with refugees in the past so I don't see why having them.next door could be any worse than having them under the same roof. I would rather them housed in areas where they would be welcomed into their communities than housed in areas hostile to vulnerable people who fled for their lives. | |||
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"A question for all of the people who are saying that we should allow in and house the young men who are all trying to get into the uk. How many of you are happy for 4-5 of them being housed in the house right next door to you? Or is this a case of oh we must do something as long as they are not next door to me ? Why would I care if 4-5 were housed next to me? In fact I would probably like it, I could volunteer my time to help them to learn English, register with a GP, explain British culture and customs and a million other little things. I have done this in past and have also lived with refugees in the past so I don't see why having them.next door could be any worse than having them under the same roof. I would rather them housed in areas where they would be welcomed into their communities than housed in areas hostile to vulnerable people who fled for their lives." because they are all lovely cuddly grateful victims aren't they? And what do you think they would think of you? | |||
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"A question for all of the people who are saying that we should allow in and house the young men who are all trying to get into the uk. How many of you are happy for 4-5 of them being housed in the house right next door to you? Or is this a case of oh we must do something as long as they are not next door to me ? Why would I care if 4-5 were housed next to me? In fact I would probably like it, I could volunteer my time to help them to learn English, register with a GP, explain British culture and customs and a million other little things. I have done this in past and have also lived with refugees in the past so I don't see why having them.next door could be any worse than having them under the same roof. I would rather them housed in areas where they would be welcomed into their communities than housed in areas hostile to vulnerable people who fled for their lives. because they are all lovely cuddly grateful victims aren't they? And what do you think they would think of you?" I'm lucky enough to call several refugees my friends. | |||
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"A question for all of the people who are saying that we should allow in and house the young men who are all trying to get into the uk. How many of you are happy for 4-5 of them being housed in the house right next door to you? Or is this a case of oh we must do something as long as they are not next door to me ? Why would I care if 4-5 were housed next to me? In fact I would probably like it, I could volunteer my time to help them to learn English, register with a GP, explain British culture and customs and a million other little things. I have done this in past and have also lived with refugees in the past so I don't see why having them.next door could be any worse than having them under the same roof. I would rather them housed in areas where they would be welcomed into their communities than housed in areas hostile to vulnerable people who fled for their lives. because they are all lovely cuddly grateful victims aren't they? And what do you think they would think of you?" What do you think they would think of you? Or other forum members that suggested that they be fed to sharks? | |||
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"A question for all of the people who are saying that we should allow in and house the young men who are all trying to get into the uk. How many of you are happy for 4-5 of them being housed in the house right next door to you? Or is this a case of oh we must do something as long as they are not next door to me ? Why would I care if 4-5 were housed next to me? In fact I would probably like it, I could volunteer my time to help them to learn English, register with a GP, explain British culture and customs and a million other little things. I have done this in past and have also lived with refugees in the past so I don't see why having them.next door could be any worse than having them under the same roof. I would rather them housed in areas where they would be welcomed into their communities than housed in areas hostile to vulnerable people who fled for their lives. because they are all lovely cuddly grateful victims aren't they? And what do you think they would think of you? I'm lucky enough to call several refugees my friends. " But the migrants in Calais are not fuckin refugees | |||
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"A question for all of the people who are saying that we should allow in and house the young men who are all trying to get into the uk. How many of you are happy for 4-5 of them being housed in the house right next door to you? Or is this a case of oh we must do something as long as they are not next door to me ? Why would I care if 4-5 were housed next to me? In fact I would probably like it, I could volunteer my time to help them to learn English, register with a GP, explain British culture and customs and a million other little things. I have done this in past and have also lived with refugees in the past so I don't see why having them.next door could be any worse than having them under the same roof. I would rather them housed in areas where they would be welcomed into their communities than housed in areas hostile to vulnerable people who fled for their lives. because they are all lovely cuddly grateful victims aren't they? And what do you think they would think of you? I'm lucky enough to call several refugees my friends. But the migrants in Calais are not fuckin refugees" Unless you have interview them all, you don't know what they are. | |||
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"A question for all of the people who are saying that we should allow in and house the young men who are all trying to get into the uk. How many of you are happy for 4-5 of them being housed in the house right next door to you? Or is this a case of oh we must do something as long as they are not next door to me ? Why would I care if 4-5 were housed next to me? In fact I would probably like it, I could volunteer my time to help them to learn English, register with a GP, explain British culture and customs and a million other little things. I have done this in past and have also lived with refugees in the past so I don't see why having them.next door could be any worse than having them under the same roof. I would rather them housed in areas where they would be welcomed into their communities than housed in areas hostile to vulnerable people who fled for their lives. because they are all lovely cuddly grateful victims aren't they? And what do you think they would think of you? I'm lucky enough to call several refugees my friends. But the migrants in Calais are not fuckin refugees Unless you have interview them all, you don't know what they are. " Yes I do. Why are they trying to flee France? | |||
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"A question for all of the people who are saying that we should allow in and house the young men who are all trying to get into the uk. How many of you are happy for 4-5 of them being housed in the house right next door to you? Or is this a case of oh we must do something as long as they are not next door to me ? Why would I care if 4-5 were housed next to me? In fact I would probably like it, I could volunteer my time to help them to learn English, register with a GP, explain British culture and customs and a million other little things. I have done this in past and have also lived with refugees in the past so I don't see why having them.next door could be any worse than having them under the same roof. I would rather them housed in areas where they would be welcomed into their communities than housed in areas hostile to vulnerable people who fled for their lives. because they are all lovely cuddly grateful victims aren't they? And what do you think they would think of you? What do you think they would think of you? Or other forum members that suggested that they be fed to sharks? " Oh dear lets exaggerate shall we? You get more pathetic by the day. Listen Sweetcheeks whether you like it or not these people in Calais are illegal migrants. They should not even be in Europe let alone France and certainly not in the UK. Feed them to the sharks? No. I just want them to be shipped back to wherever they came from or a first country of safe haven of their choosing. Here is a question (not that you answer any): Why haven't these lovely people claimed Asylum in France? | |||
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"A question for all of the people who are saying that we should allow in and house the young men who are all trying to get into the uk. How many of you are happy for 4-5 of them being housed in the house right next door to you? Or is this a case of oh we must do something as long as they are not next door to me ? Why would I care if 4-5 were housed next to me? In fact I would probably like it, I could volunteer my time to help them to learn English, register with a GP, explain British culture and customs and a million other little things. I have done this in past and have also lived with refugees in the past so I don't see why having them.next door could be any worse than having them under the same roof. I would rather them housed in areas where they would be welcomed into their communities than housed in areas hostile to vulnerable people who fled for their lives. because they are all lovely cuddly grateful victims aren't they? And what do you think they would think of you? What do you think they would think of you? Or other forum members that suggested that they be fed to sharks? Oh dear lets exaggerate shall we? You get more pathetic by the day. Listen Sweetcheeks whether you like it or not these people in Calais are illegal migrants. They should not even be in Europe let alone France and certainly not in the UK. Feed them to the sharks? No. I just want them to be shipped back to wherever they came from or a first country of safe haven of their choosing. Here is a question (not that you answer any): Why haven't these lovely people claimed Asylum in France? "No exaggeration, a regular in the politics forum did suggest feeding them to sharks. You don't know why they want to claim asylum in the UK rather than France. They could have links to the UK, family in the UK, they might speak English rather than French. There are lots of reasons why they may wish to claim asylum in the UK. | |||
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" But the migrants in Calais are not fuckin refugees" http://care4calais.org/ (charity link) | |||
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" But the migrants in Calais are not fuckin refugees http://care4calais.org/ (charity link)" I must have missed the war/flood/famine in France, I'll try to catch the news later | |||
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" But the migrants in Calais are not fuckin refugees http://care4calais.org/ (charity link) I must have missed the war/flood/famine in France, I'll try to catch the news later" Sweet. | |||
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"I do smile at those of a certain political persuasion who instruct everyone else how we should all take in refugees. I recall Pixie Balls-Cooper standing up in Parliament and saying she would take refugees into her own home. Magic. Except she hasn't. And of course they all want the refugees here but 'not in my backyard'. And can I gently remind the usual suspects that the people in Calais are not refugees. They are not Asylum Seekers. If they were they would have already applied in the many safe countries through which they have illegally travelled. They are all, therefore, criminals. They are all illegal migrants. They are all economic migrants. Few have any ID papers and few have any worthwhile skills. So on what POSSIBLE grounds or reasons does the UK owe them anything let alone a world of welfare?" One group of guys who were interviewed on TV a few months ago were from Afghanistan and they had worked as translators for the British Armed Forces and at the hospital in Helmand. They were all in fear of their lives as the Taliban moved straight back in when the British left. Those guys were left completely high and dry and the British did not accept that they would become targets. When the Americans left Vietnam, at least they understood the threats to all those who had helped them and tens of thousands were shipped back to the US. We have left hundreds of people in Afghanistan at real risk of death, at any time and without notice. Is that fair? | |||
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"A question for all of the people who are saying that we should allow in and house the young men who are all trying to get into the uk. How many of you are happy for 4-5 of them being housed in the house right next door to you? Or is this a case of oh we must do something as long as they are not next door to me ? Why would I care if 4-5 were housed next to me? In fact I would probably like it, I could volunteer my time to help them to learn English, register with a GP, explain British culture and customs and a million other little things. I have done this in past and have also lived with refugees in the past so I don't see why having them.next door could be any worse than having them under the same roof. I would rather them housed in areas where they would be welcomed into their communities than housed in areas hostile to vulnerable people who fled for their lives. because they are all lovely cuddly grateful victims aren't they? And what do you think they would think of you? What do you think they would think of you? Or other forum members that suggested that they be fed to sharks? Oh dear lets exaggerate shall we? You get more pathetic by the day. Listen Sweetcheeks whether you like it or not these people in Calais are illegal migrants. They should not even be in Europe let alone France and certainly not in the UK. Feed them to the sharks? No. I just want them to be shipped back to wherever they came from or a first country of safe haven of their choosing. Here is a question (not that you answer any): Why haven't these lovely people claimed Asylum in France?
No exaggeration, a regular in the politics forum did suggest feeding them to sharks.
You don't know why they want to claim asylum in the UK rather than France. They could have links to the UK, family in the UK, they might speak English rather than French. There are lots of reasons why they may wish to claim asylum in the UK."You answered a question I never asked ...
I will try again:
"Why haven't all these lovely people in Calais not claimed Asylum in France?" | |||
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"I do smile at those of a certain political persuasion who instruct everyone else how we should all take in refugees. I recall Pixie Balls-Cooper standing up in Parliament and saying she would take refugees into her own home. Magic. Except she hasn't. And of course they all want the refugees here but 'not in my backyard'. And can I gently remind the usual suspects that the people in Calais are not refugees. They are not Asylum Seekers. If they were they would have already applied in the many safe countries through which they have illegally travelled. They are all, therefore, criminals. They are all illegal migrants. They are all economic migrants. Few have any ID papers and few have any worthwhile skills. So on what POSSIBLE grounds or reasons does the UK owe them anything let alone a world of welfare? One group of guys who were interviewed on TV a few months ago were from Afghanistan and they had worked as translators for the British Armed Forces and at the hospital in Helmand. They were all in fear of their lives as the Taliban moved straight back in when the British left. Those guys were left completely high and dry and the British did not accept that they would become targets. When the Americans left Vietnam, at least they understood the threats to all those who had helped them and tens of thousands were shipped back to the US. We have left hundreds of people in Afghanistan at real risk of death, at any time and without notice. Is that fair?" No that is utterly despicable treatment of some very brave people. You happen to be addressing someone who has worked quietly with ex Service people to have every UK Translator given British citizenship with their families. Having said that they were actually advised to follow UN law and NOT make their way to Calais where they will be abused and in danger and will never get to the UK where they belong. | |||
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"I do smile at those of a certain political persuasion who instruct everyone else how we should all take in refugees. I recall Pixie Balls-Cooper standing up in Parliament and saying she would take refugees into her own home. Magic. Except she hasn't. And of course they all want the refugees here but 'not in my backyard'. And can I gently remind the usual suspects that the people in Calais are not refugees. They are not Asylum Seekers. If they were they would have already applied in the many safe countries through which they have illegally travelled. They are all, therefore, criminals. They are all illegal migrants. They are all economic migrants. Few have any ID papers and few have any worthwhile skills. So on what POSSIBLE grounds or reasons does the UK owe them anything let alone a world of welfare?" That's not true, if you read up, I did offer to house one in my outhouse, I even have a name for him, will call him Jacob, have many chores he can start with | |||
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"I do smile at those of a certain political persuasion who instruct everyone else how we should all take in refugees. I recall Pixie Balls-Cooper standing up in Parliament and saying she would take refugees into her own home. Magic. Except she hasn't. And of course they all want the refugees here but 'not in my backyard'. And can I gently remind the usual suspects that the people in Calais are not refugees. They are not Asylum Seekers. If they were they would have already applied in the many safe countries through which they have illegally travelled. They are all, therefore, criminals. They are all illegal migrants. They are all economic migrants. Few have any ID papers and few have any worthwhile skills. So on what POSSIBLE grounds or reasons does the UK owe them anything let alone a world of welfare? One group of guys who were interviewed on TV a few months ago were from Afghanistan and they had worked as translators for the British Armed Forces and at the hospital in Helmand. They were all in fear of their lives as the Taliban moved straight back in when the British left. Those guys were left completely high and dry and the British did not accept that they would become targets. When the Americans left Vietnam, at least they understood the threats to all those who had helped them and tens of thousands were shipped back to the US. We have left hundreds of people in Afghanistan at real risk of death, at any time and without notice. Is that fair?" No it's not fair as they should have been given special visas as they sever the uk in very difficult and dangerous situations. It's all of the others that I do not agree with letting in. | |||
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" "Why haven't all these lovely people in Calais not claimed Asylum in France?"" Why haven't they claimed asylum in... Lebanon Jordan Egypt Italy Greece Spain France Or indeed any country that they passed through on their way from Afghanistan, Iraq, Syria, Sudan, Eritrea, Libya, Sub Saharan West Africa etc etc Do you not get it that this is the biggest movement of displaced people since the second world war. More than 60 million people worldwide are TODAY displaced by war, famine and natural disaster. More than 10% (7.8 million) are Syrians and add to that the displaced people from Iraq, Libya, Sudan, Somalia and Sub Saharan Africa and all of these people see a wealthy and stable Europe to the north. There are all sorts of reasons why these people may want to come to Britain, rather than stay in a country en route and it is probably unreasonable to expect people who are ubndertaking such journeys to have thought of very much other than the simple things - language, family/friend connections, perceptions of stability and opportunity?? Who knows. Bottom line is that the war in Syria and the rise of radical Islamic factions in the middle east and north and sub saharan africa means that this problem will get a lot worse before it gets better and it needs a worldwide solution. | |||
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" "Why haven't all these lovely people in Calais not claimed Asylum in France?" Why haven't they claimed asylum in... Lebanon Jordan Egypt Italy Greece Spain France Or indeed any country that they passed through on their way from Afghanistan, Iraq, Syria, Sudan, Eritrea, Libya, Sub Saharan West Africa etc etc Do you not get it that this is the biggest movement of displaced people since the second world war. More than 60 million people worldwide are TODAY displaced by war, famine and natural disaster. More than 10% (7.8 million) are Syrians and add to that the displaced people from Iraq, Libya, Sudan, Somalia and Sub Saharan Africa and all of these people see a wealthy and stable Europe to the north. There are all sorts of reasons why these people may want to come to Britain, rather than stay in a country en route and it is probably unreasonable to expect people who are ubndertaking such journeys to have thought of very much other than the simple things - language, family/friend connections, perceptions of stability and opportunity?? Who knows. Bottom line is that the war in Syria and the rise of radical Islamic factions in the middle east and north and sub saharan africa means that this problem will get a lot worse before it gets better and it needs a worldwide solution." SUPPORTERS of the evil Islamic State are “definitely” inside the Calais migrant camp known as the Jungle, a former head of counter-terrorism claims he was told . Kevin Hurley, who is now Surrey’s police chief, described the encampment as a “potential hiding place” for insurgents after visiting earlier this month . one migrant told him there were “definitely people who supported the ideology” the terror group living within the confines of the Jungle. . yet we should welcome them all to the UK Bollocks. | |||
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" SUPPORTERS of the evil Islamic State are “definitely” inside the Calais migrant camp known as the Jungle, a former head of counter-terrorism claims he was told . Kevin Hurley, who is now Surrey’s police chief, described the encampment as a “potential hiding place” for insurgents after visiting earlier this month . one migrant told him there were “definitely people who supported the ideology” the terror group living within the confines of the Jungle. . yet we should welcome them all to the UK Bollocks. " In a former life, you would surely have been head of the "witch dunkers." Your fear of the brown skin is almost palpable. | |||
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" "Why haven't all these lovely people in Calais not claimed Asylum in France?" Why haven't they claimed asylum in... Lebanon Jordan Egypt Italy Greece Spain France Or indeed any country that they passed through on their way from Afghanistan, Iraq, Syria, Sudan, Eritrea, Libya, Sub Saharan West Africa etc etc Do you not get it that this is the biggest movement of displaced people since the second world war. More than 60 million people worldwide are TODAY displaced by war, famine and natural disaster. More than 10% (7.8 million) are Syrians and add to that the displaced people from Iraq, Libya, Sudan, Somalia and Sub Saharan Africa and all of these people see a wealthy and stable Europe to the north. There are all sorts of reasons why these people may want to come to Britain, rather than stay in a country en route and it is probably unreasonable to expect people who are ubndertaking such journeys to have thought of very much other than the simple things - language, family/friend connections, perceptions of stability and opportunity?? Who knows. Bottom line is that the war in Syria and the rise of radical Islamic factions in the middle east and north and sub saharan africa means that this problem will get a lot worse before it gets better and it needs a worldwide solution." You not only failed to answer my question you failed to answer your own... | |||
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" SUPPORTERS of the evil Islamic State are “definitely” inside the Calais migrant camp known as the Jungle, a former head of counter-terrorism claims he was told . Kevin Hurley, who is now Surrey’s police chief, described the encampment as a “potential hiding place” for insurgents after visiting earlier this month . one migrant told him there were “definitely people who supported the ideology” the terror group living within the confines of the Jungle. . yet we should welcome them all to the UK Bollocks. In a former life, you would surely have been head of the "witch dunkers." Your fear of the brown skin is almost palpable." BINGO .... the 'racist' card is played yet again by people losing the argument ... Withdraw that remark ....  | |||
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"A question for all of the people who are saying that we should allow in and house the young men who are all trying to get into the uk. How many of you are happy for 4-5 of them being housed in the house right next door to you? Or is this a case of oh we must do something as long as they are not next door to me ? Why would I care if 4-5 were housed next to me? In fact I would probably like it, I could volunteer my time to help them to learn English, register with a GP, explain British culture and customs and a million other little things. I have done this in past and have also lived with refugees in the past so I don't see why having them.next door could be any worse than having them under the same roof. I would rather them housed in areas where they would be welcomed into their communities than housed in areas hostile to vulnerable people who fled for their lives." Thing is you have no proof who if any of them have "fled for their lives" All i see is savages creating accidents on French roads, attacking drivers with no regard if they kill people and you'd like to live next door to them or share a house eh ? | |||
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" SUPPORTERS of the evil Islamic State are “definitely” inside the Calais migrant camp known as the Jungle, a former head of counter-terrorism claims he was told . Kevin Hurley, who is now Surrey’s police chief, described the encampment as a “potential hiding place” for insurgents after visiting earlier this month . one migrant told him there were “definitely people who supported the ideology” the terror group living within the confines of the Jungle. . yet we should welcome them all to the UK Bollocks. In a former life, you would surely have been head of the "witch dunkers." Your fear of the brown skin is almost palpable." But; I am of brown skin | |||
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"A question for all of the people who are saying that we should allow in and house the young men who are all trying to get into the uk. How many of you are happy for 4-5 of them being housed in the house right next door to you? Or is this a case of oh we must do something as long as they are not next door to me ? Why would I care if 4-5 were housed next to me? In fact I would probably like it, I could volunteer my time to help them to learn English, register with a GP, explain British culture and customs and a million other little things. I have done this in past and have also lived with refugees in the past so I don't see why having them.next door could be any worse than having them under the same roof. I would rather them housed in areas where they would be welcomed into their communities than housed in areas hostile to vulnerable people who fled for their lives. Thing is you have no proof who if any of them have "fled for their lives" All i see is savages creating accidents on French roads, attacking drivers with no regard if they kill people and you'd like to live next door to them or share a house eh ?" No Andy, I said I would take one in call him Jacob and house him in my outhouse, would be nice to have someone for chores, a nice chore-boy | |||
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"A question for all of the people who are saying that we should allow in and house the young men who are all trying to get into the uk. How many of you are happy for 4-5 of them being housed in the house right next door to you? Or is this a case of oh we must do something as long as they are not next door to me ? Why would I care if 4-5 were housed next to me? In fact I would probably like it, I could volunteer my time to help them to learn English, register with a GP, explain British culture and customs and a million other little things. I have done this in past and have also lived with refugees in the past so I don't see why having them.next door could be any worse than having them under the same roof. I would rather them housed in areas where they would be welcomed into their communities than housed in areas hostile to vulnerable people who fled for their lives. Thing is you have no proof who if any of them have "fled for their lives" All i see is savages creating accidents on French roads, attacking drivers with no regard if they kill people and you'd like to live next door to them or share a house eh ? No Andy, I said I would take one in call him Jacob and house him in my outhouse, would be nice to have someone for chores, a nice chore-boy" Ha i wasn't replying to you but yes yours is a good idea | |||
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"A question for all of the people who are saying that we should allow in and house the young men who are all trying to get into the uk. How many of you are happy for 4-5 of them being housed in the house right next door to you? Or is this a case of oh we must do something as long as they are not next door to me ? Why would I care if 4-5 were housed next to me? In fact I would probably like it, I could volunteer my time to help them to learn English, register with a GP, explain British culture and customs and a million other little things. I have done this in past and have also lived with refugees in the past so I don't see why having them.next door could be any worse than having them under the same roof. I would rather them housed in areas where they would be welcomed into their communities than housed in areas hostile to vulnerable people who fled for their lives. because they are all lovely cuddly grateful victims aren't they? And what do you think they would think of you? What do you think they would think of you? Or other forum members that suggested that they be fed to sharks? Oh dear lets exaggerate shall we? You get more pathetic by the day. Listen Sweetcheeks whether you like it or not these people in Calais are illegal migrants. They should not even be in Europe let alone France and certainly not in the UK. Feed them to the sharks? No. I just want them to be shipped back to wherever they came from or a first country of safe haven of their choosing. Here is a question (not that you answer any): Why haven't these lovely people claimed Asylum in France?
No exaggeration, a regular in the politics forum did suggest feeding them to sharks.
You don't know why they want to claim asylum in the UK rather than France. They could have links to the UK, family in the UK, they might speak English rather than French. There are lots of reasons why they may wish to claim asylum in the UK.
You answered a question I never asked ...
I will try again:
"Why haven't all these lovely people in Calais not claimed Asylum in France?""No clue why. Was there a survey? Probably following the big dream. They don't realise the rest of Europe has equal or better opportunities. | |||
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" no assistance with flooding either The dutch loaned the uk the water pumps during the floods. They also gave advise on avoiding flooding. Foreign aid is not just about the money. http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-30339000 well that sounds bloody good for us, perhaps we should just give advice rather than billions, I am sure the majority of UK would agree here "I'm happy the UK accepted refigees. Otherwise I wouldn't have been born. Maybe the Brits were accepting because we are tanned and has the same religion. I have a lot of respect for Britain and less for the US since they pulled the strings in the dictatorship in South America. I'm not going to serve you 24/7. My skill set is far superior than that. I prefer to continue to do what I do which makes a huge impact in the world. It's depressing to see trained doctor's coming to England and become a taxi driver or a cleaner because their qualification is not recognised and they cannot afford to goto uni. Rant over. | |||
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" no assistance with flooding either The dutch loaned the uk the water pumps during the floods. They also gave advise on avoiding flooding. Foreign aid is not just about the money. http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-30339000 well that sounds bloody good for us, perhaps we should just give advice rather than billions, I am sure the majority of UK would agree here
I'm happy the UK accepted refigees. Otherwise I wouldn't have been born. Maybe the Brits were accepting because we are tanned and has the same religion. I have a lot of respect for Britain and less for the US since they pulled the strings in the dictatorship in South America.
I'm not going to serve you 24/7. My skill set is far superior than that. I prefer to continue to do what I do which makes a huge impact in the world.
It's depressing to see trained doctor's coming to England and become a taxi driver or a cleaner because their qualification is not recognised and they cannot afford to goto uni.
Rant over."Then done expect to sleep in my outhouse and utter bullshit regarding your so called trained doctors, if they don't fit the grade, don't have the qualifications, they aint going to treat my dog never mind me. | |||
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" If you don't even know that we are bombing Syria how can anything else you have said be taken seriously? If you don't know the difference between Syria and ISIS how can anything else you say be taken seriously? See it works both ways? Difference is We have never bombed any part of Syria before we agreed to bomb specific ISIS targets. And as it happens the RAF have the best record of all participants for accuracy and has zero collateral casualties. Unlike the Yanks we are happy to bring back unused bombs rather than just offload plus we use far more accurate weapons like Brimstone. Quick Google search eh??? Oops we are bombing Syria after all.... Oh dear... sarcasm at its worst. Especially when you clearly never Googled at all ... Oops. The RAF are bombing specific ISIS related targets in both Iraq and Syria. They are NOT bombing the Nation States of Iraq or Syria in the way you are trying to twist it. Nice try but that was a bit of a foot / mouth interface moment
So by your logic, we have not bombed Libya, Iraq or Aghanistan? We have only precision targeted the bad guys so that is not really dropping bombs on the country, just the combatants.
That said, if we pursue your line of thinking the bombs dropped in terrorist held areas of Raqqa and the oilfields could have killed innocent civilians. When the Allies bombed Nazi held Europe in the 1940's it didn't mean that everyone in those areas were Nazi's.
It is just not possible to know whether drivers and crane operators were civilians just trying to earn a living or fighters... Or maybe the civilians were just too terrified to stay and ran away to Turkey, Greece, France ... Calais even.
why Calais?
and how many migrants do we let in to the UK before you become a xenophobe?"I'm interested in thoughts on this. Why do the French allow them to build these huge camps? Why dont they send them back to Italy, for example. I seem to have become a xenophobe by default due to voting leave. I dont believe housing half the world here solves the problem. We need to spend the large amount of foreign aid much better x | |||
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" SUPPORTERS of the evil Islamic State are “definitely” inside the Calais migrant camp known as the Jungle, a former head of counter-terrorism claims he was told . Kevin Hurley, who is now Surrey’s police chief, described the encampment as a “potential hiding place” for insurgents after visiting earlier this month . one migrant told him there were “definitely people who supported the ideology” the terror group living within the confines of the Jungle. . yet we should welcome them all to the UK Bollocks. In a former life, you would surely have been head of the "witch dunkers." Your fear of the brown skin is almost palpable." Wow 
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"A question for all of the people who are saying that we should allow in and house the young men who are all trying to get into the uk. How many of you are happy for 4-5 of them being housed in the house right next door to you? Or is this a case of oh we must do something as long as they are not next door to me ? Why would I care if 4-5 were housed next to me? In fact I would probably like it, I could volunteer my time to help them to learn English, register with a GP, explain British culture and customs and a million other little things. I have done this in past and have also lived with refugees in the past so I don't see why having them.next door could be any worse than having them under the same roof. I would rather them housed in areas where they would be welcomed into their communities than housed in areas hostile to vulnerable people who fled for their lives. because they are all lovely cuddly grateful victims aren't they? And what do you think they would think of you? What do you think they would think of you? Or other forum members that suggested that they be fed to sharks? Oh dear lets exaggerate shall we? You get more pathetic by the day. Listen Sweetcheeks whether you like it or not these people in Calais are illegal migrants. They should not even be in Europe let alone France and certainly not in the UK. Feed them to the sharks? No. I just want them to be shipped back to wherever they came from or a first country of safe haven of their choosing. Here is a question (not that you answer any): Why haven't these lovely people claimed Asylum in France?
No exaggeration, a regular in the politics forum did suggest feeding them to sharks.
You don't know why they want to claim asylum in the UK rather than France. They could have links to the UK, family in the UK, they might speak English rather than French. There are lots of reasons why they may wish to claim asylum in the UK.
You answered a question I never asked ...
I will try again:
"Why haven't all these lovely people in Calais not claimed Asylum in France?"
No clue why. Was there a survey? Probably following the big dream. They don't realise the rest of Europe has equal or better opportunities. "Apparently they don't, since we voted to leave the EU...why would they want to come to this xenophobic racist little island that will sink into the Atlantic once we trigger Article 50 | |||
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"A question for all of the people who are saying that we should allow in and house the young men who are all trying to get into the uk. How many of you are happy for 4-5 of them being housed in the house right next door to you? Or is this a case of oh we must do something as long as they are not next door to me ? Why would I care if 4-5 were housed next to me? In fact I would probably like it, I could volunteer my time to help them to learn English, register with a GP, explain British culture and customs and a million other little things. I have done this in past and have also lived with refugees in the past so I don't see why having them.next door could be any worse than having them under the same roof. I would rather them housed in areas where they would be welcomed into their communities than housed in areas hostile to vulnerable people who fled for their lives. because they are all lovely cuddly grateful victims aren't they? And what do you think they would think of you? What do you think they would think of you? Or other forum members that suggested that they be fed to sharks? Oh dear lets exaggerate shall we? You get more pathetic by the day. Listen Sweetcheeks whether you like it or not these people in Calais are illegal migrants. They should not even be in Europe let alone France and certainly not in the UK. Feed them to the sharks? No. I just want them to be shipped back to wherever they came from or a first country of safe haven of their choosing. Here is a question (not that you answer any): Why haven't these lovely people claimed Asylum in France?
No exaggeration, a regular in the politics forum did suggest feeding them to sharks.
You don't know why they want to claim asylum in the UK rather than France. They could have links to the UK, family in the UK, they might speak English rather than French. There are lots of reasons why they may wish to claim asylum in the UK.
You answered a question I never asked ...
I will try again:
"Why haven't all these lovely people in Calais not claimed Asylum in France?"
No clue why. Was there a survey? Probably following the big dream. They don't realise the rest of Europe has equal or better opportunities.
Apparently they don't, since we voted to leave the EU...why would they want to come to this xenophobic racist little island that will sink into the Atlantic once we trigger Article 50 "Nice one. | |||
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"The conditions are appalling there, people shouldn't have to live like that. " They should go back if it's worse that where they came from. | |||
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"The conditions are appalling there, people shouldn't have to live like that. They should go back if it's worse that where they came from." It can be appalling, but still better than where they came from at the same time. I'm gonna go out on a limb here and guess you have never spent any time in a refugee camp, am I right? | |||
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"The conditions are appalling there, people shouldn't have to live like that. They should go back if it's worse that where they came from. It can be appalling, but still better than where they came from at the same time. I'm gonna go out on a limb here and guess you have never spent any time in a refugee camp, am I right? " It's not a refugee camp though x | |||
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"The conditions are appalling there, people shouldn't have to live like that. They should go back if it's worse that where they came from. It can be appalling, but still better than where they came from at the same time. I'm gonna go out on a limb here and guess you have never spent any time in a refugee camp, am I right? It's not a refugee camp though x" It's a camp, full of refugees, thus making it a refugee camp. Unless you are suggesting that the people in the camp are French and are Internally Displaced People? I'm going to guess that you have never been to an IDP camp or a regugee camp, am I right? | |||
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"The conditions are appalling there, people shouldn't have to live like that. They should go back if it's worse that where they came from. It can be appalling, but still better than where they came from at the same time. I'm gonna go out on a limb here and guess you have never spent any time in a refugee camp, am I right? " What part of that Calais 'Jungle' isn't a refugee camp are you not quite understanding too well? Its a den of thieves and criminals who think nothing of threatening their own people let alone attacking innocent truck drivers and breaking into other people's vehicles and ruining thousands of pounds worth of goods that are needed by the people who paid for them. So what about the people who are put on short time working because the goods they need are damaged or very late, the truckers who are put in jail because they cannot pay the fines or the haulage firms put out of business because people won't pay for the delays? I guess thats OK and a price others have to pay in your loonie left world? | |||
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"The conditions are appalling there, people shouldn't have to live like that. They should go back if it's worse that where they came from. It can be appalling, but still better than where they came from at the same time. I'm gonna go out on a limb here and guess you have never spent any time in a refugee camp, am I right? What part of that Calais 'Jungle' isn't a refugee camp are you not quite understanding too well? Its a den of thieves and criminals who think nothing of threatening their own people let alone attacking innocent truck drivers and breaking into other people's vehicles and ruining thousands of pounds worth of goods that are needed by the people who paid for them. So what about the people who are put on short time working because the goods they need are damaged or very late, the truckers who are put in jail because they cannot pay the fines or the haulage firms put out of business because people won't pay for the delays? I guess thats OK and a price others have to pay in your loonie left world?" What part of it is a refugee camp don't you understand? If a trucker can't secure his load, he's not a very good trucker. | |||
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" What part of it is a refugee camp don't you understand? If a trucker can't secure his load, he's not a very good trucker." many of the occupants are economic migrants, as for securing a truck do you know how easy it is to get in a tautliner? What would you do if you had twenty thugs with knives etc force you to stop and then demand entry into your vehicle,you are just being ridiculous now | |||
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" If a trucker can't secure his load, he's not a very good trucker." It's a truck, not a fucking bank vault, how do you suggest they secure a curtain sider? | |||
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" What part of it is a refugee camp don't you understand? If a trucker can't secure his load, he's not a very good trucker. many of the occupants are economic migrants, as for securing a truck do you know how easy it is to get in a tautliner? What would you do if you had twenty thugs with knives etc force you to stop and then demand entry into your vehicle,you are just being ridiculous now" Are they economic migrants, refugees or thieves? Can someone share their source? Newspapers don't count, the paper's source is better. I read multiple articles using the same source with a biased view. | |||
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" Are they economic migrants, refugees or thieves? Can someone share their source? Newspapers don't count, the paper's source is better. I read multiple articles using the same source with a biased view." Google says "The Calais "Jungle" is the nickname given to a refugee and migrant encampment in the vicinity of Calais, France, where migrants and refugees live." Which is sourced from Wikipedia. Maybe not the best source . But maybe you're both right. | |||
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"The conditions are appalling there, people shouldn't have to live like that. They should go back if it's worse that where they came from. It can be appalling, but still better than where they came from at the same time. I'm gonna go out on a limb here and guess you have never spent any time in a refugee camp, am I right? What part of that Calais 'Jungle' isn't a refugee camp are you not quite understanding too well? Its a den of thieves and criminals who think nothing of threatening their own people let alone attacking innocent truck drivers and breaking into other people's vehicles and ruining thousands of pounds worth of goods that are needed by the people who paid for them. So what about the people who are put on short time working because the goods they need are damaged or very late, the truckers who are put in jail because they cannot pay the fines or the haulage firms put out of business because people won't pay for the delays? I guess thats OK and a price others have to pay in your loonie left world? What part of it is a refugee camp don't you understand? If a trucker can't secure his load, he's not a very good trucker." These criminals can get in a Fridge box so what chance anything else? If I thought you had the brains to understand the difference between a Tilt and a Tautliner let alone all the others I would have a conversation with you. But this now confirms what I have thought for a while now. You're just a sad Troll looking to cause arguments and insulting people to get a reaction ... | |||
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" Apparently they don't, since we voted to leave the EU...why would they want to come to this xenophobic racist little island that will sink into the Atlantic once we trigger Article 50 "Maybe the UK system is easier to bend or break due to the badly run system. Not sure where you sarcastic comment comes from. Just because the minority of remoaners are claiming Brexiters are xenophobic racists, a minority of Brexiters believe all remainers are remoaners. It's funny to observe because the predujice between remain and Brexit, lefties and righties has gone full circle. | |||
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"The conditions are appalling there, people shouldn't have to live like that. They should go back if it's worse that where they came from. It can be appalling, but still better than where they came from at the same time. I'm gonna go out on a limb here and guess you have never spent any time in a refugee camp, am I right? What part of that Calais 'Jungle' isn't a refugee camp are you not quite understanding too well? Its a den of thieves and criminals who think nothing of threatening their own people let alone attacking innocent truck drivers and breaking into other people's vehicles and ruining thousands of pounds worth of goods that are needed by the people who paid for them. So what about the people who are put on short time working because the goods they need are damaged or very late, the truckers who are put in jail because they cannot pay the fines or the haulage firms put out of business because people won't pay for the delays? I guess thats OK and a price others have to pay in your loonie left world? What part of it is a refugee camp don't you understand? If a trucker can't secure his load, he's not a very good trucker. These criminals can get in a Fridge box so what chance anything else? If I thought you had the brains to understand the difference between a Tilt and a Tautliner let alone all the others I would have a conversation with you. But this now confirms what I have thought for a while now. You're just a sad Troll looking to cause arguments and insulting people to get a reaction ..." You say that I am trolling, and yet the law is on my side. Parliament, in their wisdom, passed the legislation that lays the responsibility for securing the load from migrants on the driver. Do you really think that no HGV drivers are in the business of people smuggling along side all the other smuggling they do? Now who is being naive. | |||
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"I haven't read all the quotes ! But the question should be ? Why do people want to escape from France ? I'm Serious , it's not happening the other way round is it ! " Ha nice twist to the story. | |||
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"I haven't read all the quotes ! But the question should be ? Why do people want to escape from France ? I'm Serious , it's not happening the other way round is it ! Ha nice twist to the story. " I was serious but also trying to provoke response ! Surely the French should be asking themselves why people would rather come to Britain than stay in France ! They should actually be embarrassed ! | |||
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"I haven't read all the quotes ! But the question should be ? Why do people want to escape from France ? I'm Serious , it's not happening the other way round is it ! Ha nice twist to the story. I was serious but also trying to provoke response ! Surely the French should be asking themselves why people would rather come to Britain than stay in France ! They should actually be embarrassed !" Well do we know that? The only recorded number we know is how many are at the camps. What percentage of the migrants decide to stay in France, or Germany or Italy or Greece. We assume they all came to Calais. | |||
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" Are they economic migrants, refugees or thieves? Can someone share their source? Newspapers don't count, the paper's source is better. I read multiple articles using the same source with a biased view. Google says "The Calais "Jungle" is the nickname given to a refugee and migrant encampment in the vicinity of Calais, France, where migrants and refugees live." Which is sourced from Wikipedia. Maybe not the best source . But maybe you're both right."You can try "Hope, hypothermia and human spirit: Refugee Support First Aid and Care Team” in the British Journal of Nursing (peer reviewed) by Brighid Langtry. You might find it hard to find so here is a section: "On my 1st trip in January, I spent 2 weeks working alongside a team of doctors, nurses, midwives and 1st aiders, out of three slightly worse-for-wear caravans in the north end of the camp.The residents of the camp are made up of communities from Syria, Eritrea, Sudan, Iran and Afghanistan.The conditions were shocking. Families lived in squalid, overcrowded conditions in tents or temporary shelters.Very little sanitation had been built, resulting mainly in viral upper-respiratory tract infections. Exposure, coupled with the burning of plastic to stay warm, caused many residents to have what is dubbed ‘jungle lung’—a persistent hacking cough, with generalised body aches. Many of the treatments we provided were over-the-counter cures for coryzal symptoms (such as fever, sneezing and coughing). More serious cases were triaged to an on-site clinic run by Médecins Sans Frontières (MSF) or the local hospital. We also saw many cases of scabies, measles, hypothermia and wounds caused by climbing fences or brutality on the journeys. Tear gas (CS gas) was regularly used by authorities to disperse groups, causing facial burns and sickness. An eye-wash treatment was made up of antacids and water to neutralise the burn." | |||
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"I haven't read all the quotes ! But the question should be ? Why do people want to escape from France ? I'm Serious , it's not happening the other way round is it ! Ha nice twist to the story. I was serious but also trying to provoke response ! Surely the French should be asking themselves why people would rather come to Britain than stay in France ! They should actually be embarrassed ! Well do we know that? The only recorded number we know is how many are at the camps. What percentage of the migrants decide to stay in France, or Germany or Italy or Greece. We assume they all came to Calais." Yes I'm sure some migrants stay in other country's but ! An asylum seeker is meant to stay in the first safe country ! | |||
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"I haven't read all the quotes ! But the question should be ? Why do people want to escape from France ? I'm Serious , it's not happening the other way round is it ! Ha nice twist to the story. I was serious but also trying to provoke response ! Surely the French should be asking themselves why people would rather come to Britain than stay in France ! They should actually be embarrassed ! Well do we know that? The only recorded number we know is how many are at the camps. What percentage of the migrants decide to stay in France, or Germany or Italy or Greece. We assume they all came to Calais. Yes I'm sure some migrants stay in other country's but ! An asylum seeker is meant to stay in the first safe country !" Not according to our government site. You have to apply for asylum when after you arrive in the UK or cross the border. I know some people can be exciled from their country and it's processed while they are in their own country. Checked the French rules too looks like the same. So they're choosing to claim it in the UK since they are trying to get to the border. Or trying to get in illegally. That's for the refugees of course. | |||
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" Are they economic migrants, refugees or thieves? Can someone share their source? Newspapers don't count, the paper's source is better. I read multiple articles using the same source with a biased view. Google says "The Calais "Jungle" is the nickname given to a refugee and migrant encampment in the vicinity of Calais, France, where migrants and refugees live." Which is sourced from Wikipedia. Maybe not the best source . But maybe you're both right."So more info that you might find useful comes from the Migration Observatory at Oxford University, unfortunately forum rules mean that I can’t post the link, but hopefully you should find the briefing document from Dr Scott Blinder. Although people seem to be very worried about asylum claims now, there were only 34,000 claims in 2015, compared to 84,000 in 2002. Asylum only accounts for 7% of net migration into the UK (2015) Only 3% of all of the asylum claims in EU (and Norway & Switzerland) are made in the UK. In 2015 the UK Government only resettled 1,194 people from Syria, when countries which are much much poorer than us, such as Turkey, Lebanon, Iraq and Jordan took over 6,000,000. To say that we can’t afford it when those countries can is ridiculous. Also to say that we don’t have the room, when nearly 3% of the UK is used for golf courses is also a ridiculous suggestion. Their definition of a refugee is : A refugee is someone who has fled his or her own country, and cannot return for well-founded fear of persecution there. Another useful part of the report "Data on asylum seekers are considered separately from data on resettled refugees. Unlike asylum seekers, who make their own way to the UK to claim asylum, resettled refugees are identified outside of the country and brought here with the help of the UK government and the United Nations. " | |||
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" Are they economic migrants, refugees or thieves? Can someone share their source? Newspapers don't count, the paper's source is better. I read multiple articles using the same source with a biased view. Google says "The Calais "Jungle" is the nickname given to a refugee and migrant encampment in the vicinity of Calais, France, where migrants and refugees live." Which is sourced from Wikipedia. Maybe not the best source . But maybe you're both right.
So more info that you might find useful comes from the Migration Observatory at Oxford University, unfortunately forum rules mean that I can’t post the link, but hopefully you should find the briefing document from Dr Scott Blinder.
Although people seem to be very worried about asylum claims now, there were only 34,000 claims in 2015, compared to 84,000 in 2002.
Asylum only accounts for 7% of net migration into the UK (2015)
Only 3% of all of the asylum claims in EU (and Norway & Switzerland) are made in the UK.
In 2015 the UK Government only resettled 1,194 people from Syria, when countries which are much much poorer than us, such as Turkey, Lebanon, Iraq and Jordan took over 6,000,000.
To say that we can’t afford it when those countries can is ridiculous. Also to say that we don’t have the room, when nearly 3% of the UK is used for golf courses is also a ridiculous suggestion.
Their definition of a refugee is : A refugee is someone who has fled his or her own country, and cannot return for well-founded fear of persecution there.
Another useful part of the report "Data on asylum seekers are considered separately from data on resettled refugees. Unlike asylum seekers, who make their own way to the UK to claim asylum, resettled refugees are identified outside of the country and brought here with the help of the UK government and the United Nations. ""Good article. I'm a son of a refugee and he worked closely with asylum seekers and regugees so I'm familiar with the system and he had the numbers from the home office in the past which had similar numbers as the article. The question is, is the system countering the recognition of asylum seekers and labeling then as migrants. If they fall out of the system or not fit the criteria then the perception is misconstrued. | |||
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"The conditions are appalling there, people shouldn't have to live like that. They should go back if it's worse that where they came from. It can be appalling, but still better than where they came from at the same time. I'm gonna go out on a limb here and guess you have never spent any time in a refugee camp, am I right? What part of that Calais 'Jungle' isn't a refugee camp are you not quite understanding too well? Its a den of thieves and criminals who think nothing of threatening their own people let alone attacking innocent truck drivers and breaking into other people's vehicles and ruining thousands of pounds worth of goods that are needed by the people who paid for them. So what about the people who are put on short time working because the goods they need are damaged or very late, the truckers who are put in jail because they cannot pay the fines or the haulage firms put out of business because people won't pay for the delays? I guess thats OK and a price others have to pay in your loonie left world? What part of it is a refugee camp don't you understand? If a trucker can't secure his load, he's not a very good trucker. These criminals can get in a Fridge box so what chance anything else? If I thought you had the brains to understand the difference between a Tilt and a Tautliner let alone all the others I would have a conversation with you. But this now confirms what I have thought for a while now. You're just a sad Troll looking to cause arguments and insulting people to get a reaction ... You say that I am trolling, and yet the law is on my side. Parliament, in their wisdom, passed the legislation that lays the responsibility for securing the load from migrants on the driver. Do you really think that no HGV drivers are in the business of people smuggling along side all the other smuggling they do? Now who is being naive." Please don't lecture me on ANY of the laws concerning HGVs or on Calais and all the shit that is going on there. We are not talking about 'securing loads' you daft muppet. We are talking about criminal gangs forcing their way into, under and on trucks as they approach Calais. Slicing open a Tilt with knives and getting inside while the driver is watching someone else with a knife. People forcing open the back doors and climbing in without the driver even knowing. I was dealing with it decades ago and yeah I carried a baseball bat. I never had one conviction in 20 years so I do know what the f**king law is. Go shove your sarcasm and stupidity where the sun don't shine. And here have a watch and see the reality of what those shitheads you like so much are doing to hard working truckers who just want to get on a ferry and have a meal: http://www.express.co.uk/news/world/629016/Calais-migrant-crisis-lorry-drivers-fear-death | |||
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"But why if you are a genuine Refugee would you want to leave France and come here ? I don't get it !" What if you have connections to the UK, say you might have lived or studied here previously, then you would want to claim asylum here right? What if you speak English, but not French, which country would you claim asylum in? What if you have friends or family already living in the UK, again, wouldn’t it make sense to claim in the UK? | |||
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"But why if you are a genuine Refugee would you want to leave France and come here ? I don't get it !" I cannot answer that. It's like the whole "I don't like the No X comments in profiles." It's a preference or a taste. Of course those who are still in the country they fear I.e. in jail possibly tortured, may not care were they go. Where the asylum seekers who escaped the country have a choice. It could be just random. Probability. Not all asylum seekers go to the UK. A percentage does. So using statistics there is a chance people prefer Britain over France. Also there are peoe who prefer Germany over the UK. Or Netherlands over Italy. | |||
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"The conditions are appalling there, people shouldn't have to live like that. They should go back if it's worse that where they came from. It can be appalling, but still better than where they came from at the same time. I'm gonna go out on a limb here and guess you have never spent any time in a refugee camp, am I right? What part of that Calais 'Jungle' isn't a refugee camp are you not quite understanding too well? Its a den of thieves and criminals who think nothing of threatening their own people let alone attacking innocent truck drivers and breaking into other people's vehicles and ruining thousands of pounds worth of goods that are needed by the people who paid for them. So what about the people who are put on short time working because the goods they need are damaged or very late, the truckers who are put in jail because they cannot pay the fines or the haulage firms put out of business because people won't pay for the delays? I guess thats OK and a price others have to pay in your loonie left world? What part of it is a refugee camp don't you understand? If a trucker can't secure his load, he's not a very good trucker. These criminals can get in a Fridge box so what chance anything else? If I thought you had the brains to understand the difference between a Tilt and a Tautliner let alone all the others I would have a conversation with you. But this now confirms what I have thought for a while now. You're just a sad Troll looking to cause arguments and insulting people to get a reaction ... You say that I am trolling, and yet the law is on my side. Parliament, in their wisdom, passed the legislation that lays the responsibility for securing the load from migrants on the driver. Do you really think that no HGV drivers are in the business of people smuggling along side all the other smuggling they do? Now who is being naive. Please don't lecture me on ANY of the laws concerning HGVs or on Calais and all the shit that is going on there. We are not talking about 'securing loads' you daft muppet. We are talking about criminal gangs forcing their way into, under and on trucks as they approach Calais. Slicing open a Tilt with knives and getting inside while the driver is watching someone else with a knife. People forcing open the back doors and climbing in without the driver even knowing. I was dealing with it decades ago and yeah I carried a baseball bat. I never had one conviction in 20 years so I do know what the f**king law is. Go shove your sarcasm and stupidity where the sun don't shine. And here have a watch and see the reality of what those shitheads you like so much are doing to hard working truckers who just want to get on a ferry and have a meal: http://www.express.co.uk/news/world/629016/Calais-migrant-crisis-lorry-drivers-fear-death" Well if you’re the expert, then does the legislation put the responsibility on the driver or not? I am happy to be corrected if I am wrong. If parliament think its the drivers responsibility, then why is it so hard to believe that I also think that it should be the driver’s responsibility? You say that you didn’t have a conviction in 20 years, but how many people came through in the back of your lorry? You make it sound as though you know a way to circumvent the legislation? | |||
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"But why if you are a genuine Refugee would you want to leave France and come here ? I don't get it ! I cannot answer that. It's like the whole "I don't like the No X comments in profiles." It's a preference or a taste. Of course those who are still in the country they fear I.e. in jail possibly tortured, may not care were they go. Where the asylum seekers who escaped the country have a choice. It could be just random. Probability. Not all asylum seekers go to the UK. A percentage does. So using statistics there is a chance people prefer Britain over France. Also there are peoe who prefer Germany over the UK. Or Netherlands over Italy." Sorry I went all mathematics on you.  | |||
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"But why if you are a genuine Refugee would you want to leave France and come here ? I don't get it ! What if you have connections to the UK, say you might have lived or studied here previously, then you would want to claim asylum here right? What if you speak English, but not French, which country would you claim asylum in? What if you have friends or family already living in the UK, again, wouldn’t it make sense to claim in the UK?" Those are valid reasons. My father was sponsored by the UK because his brother was here. Although my father in his youth skipped English lessons because he thought Spanish was the only language he needed. He learnt English in 6 months here. | |||
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"The conditions are appalling there, people shouldn't have to live like that. They should go back if it's worse that where they came from. It can be appalling, but still better than where they came from at the same time. I'm gonna go out on a limb here and guess you have never spent any time in a refugee camp, am I right? " They don't have a right to be here. Most are economic migrants. | |||
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" Are they economic migrants, refugees or thieves? Can someone share their source? Newspapers don't count, the paper's source is better. I read multiple articles using the same source with a biased view. Google says "The Calais "Jungle" is the nickname given to a refugee and migrant encampment in the vicinity of Calais, France, where migrants and refugees live." Which is sourced from Wikipedia. Maybe not the best source . But maybe you're both right.
So more info that you might find useful comes from the Migration Observatory at Oxford University, unfortunately forum rules mean that I can’t post the link, but hopefully you should find the briefing document from Dr Scott Blinder.
Although people seem to be very worried about asylum claims now, there were only 34,000 claims in 2015, compared to 84,000 in 2002.
Asylum only accounts for 7% of net migration into the UK (2015)
Only 3% of all of the asylum claims in EU (and Norway & Switzerland) are made in the UK.
In 2015 the UK Government only resettled 1,194 people from Syria, when countries which are much much poorer than us, such as Turkey, Lebanon, Iraq and Jordan took over 6,000,000.
To say that we can’t afford it when those countries can is ridiculous. Also to say that we don’t have the room, when nearly 3% of the UK is used for golf courses is also a ridiculous suggestion.
Their definition of a refugee is : A refugee is someone who has fled his or her own country, and cannot return for well-founded fear of persecution there.
Another useful part of the report "Data on asylum seekers are considered separately from data on resettled refugees. Unlike asylum seekers, who make their own way to the UK to claim asylum, resettled refugees are identified outside of the country and brought here with the help of the UK government and the United Nations. "
Good article. I'm a son of a refugee and he worked closely with asylum seekers and regugees so I'm familiar with the system and he had the numbers from the home office in the past which had similar numbers as the article.
The question is, is the system countering the recognition of asylum seekers and labeling then as migrants. If they fall out of the system or not fit the criteria then the perception is misconstrued."I'm the great grandson of a refugee. My family utterly assimilated. Most migrants refuse to. The VAST VAST amount of people coming by are not refugees .. They found refuge the moment the left their nations....yet the keep traveling North to the good economies? That is the very definition of an economic migrant. | |||
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"The conditions are appalling there, people shouldn't have to live like that. They should go back if it's worse that where they came from. It can be appalling, but still better than where they came from at the same time. I'm gonna go out on a limb here and guess you have never spent any time in a refugee camp, am I right? What part of that Calais 'Jungle' isn't a refugee camp are you not quite understanding too well? Its a den of thieves and criminals who think nothing of threatening their own people let alone attacking innocent truck drivers and breaking into other people's vehicles and ruining thousands of pounds worth of goods that are needed by the people who paid for them. So what about the people who are put on short time working because the goods they need are damaged or very late, the truckers who are put in jail because they cannot pay the fines or the haulage firms put out of business because people won't pay for the delays? I guess thats OK and a price others have to pay in your loonie left world? What part of it is a refugee camp don't you understand? If a trucker can't secure his load, he's not a very good trucker. These criminals can get in a Fridge box so what chance anything else? If I thought you had the brains to understand the difference between a Tilt and a Tautliner let alone all the others I would have a conversation with you. But this now confirms what I have thought for a while now. You're just a sad Troll looking to cause arguments and insulting people to get a reaction ... You say that I am trolling, and yet the law is on my side. Parliament, in their wisdom, passed the legislation that lays the responsibility for securing the load from migrants on the driver. Do you really think that no HGV drivers are in the business of people smuggling along side all the other smuggling they do? Now who is being naive. Please don't lecture me on ANY of the laws concerning HGVs or on Calais and all the shit that is going on there. We are not talking about 'securing loads' you daft muppet. We are talking about criminal gangs forcing their way into, under and on trucks as they approach Calais. Slicing open a Tilt with knives and getting inside while the driver is watching someone else with a knife. People forcing open the back doors and climbing in without the driver even knowing. I was dealing with it decades ago and yeah I carried a baseball bat. I never had one conviction in 20 years so I do know what the f**king law is. Go shove your sarcasm and stupidity where the sun don't shine. And here have a watch and see the reality of what those shitheads you like so much are doing to hard working truckers who just want to get on a ferry and have a meal: http://www.express.co.uk/news/world/629016/Calais-migrant-crisis-lorry-drivers-fear-death Well if you’re the expert, then does the legislation put the responsibility on the driver or not? I am happy to be corrected if I am wrong. If parliament think its the drivers responsibility, then why is it so hard to believe that I also think that it should be the driver’s responsibility? You say that you didn’t have a conviction in 20 years, but how many people came through in the back of your lorry? You make it sound as though you know a way to circumvent the legislation?" More Trolling? More irrelevant crap and twisting or words? More moving away from where you get nailed? We all know what you are about and frankly I can't be arsed wasting time on your endless and repetitive crap. | |||
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"The conditions are appalling there, people shouldn't have to live like that. They should go back if it's worse that where they came from. It can be appalling, but still better than where they came from at the same time. I'm gonna go out on a limb here and guess you have never spent any time in a refugee camp, am I right? They don't have a right to be here. Most are economic migrants." | |||
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"But why if you are a genuine Refugee would you want to leave France and come here ? I don't get it ! I cannot answer that. It's like the whole "I don't like the No X comments in profiles." It's a preference or a taste. Of course those who are still in the country they fear I.e. in jail possibly tortured, may not care were they go. Where the asylum seekers who escaped the country have a choice. It could be just random. Probability. Not all asylum seekers go to the UK. A percentage does. So using statistics there is a chance people prefer Britain over France. Also there are peoe who prefer Germany over the UK. Or Netherlands over Italy." How lovely for them. I prefer a Bugatti over a bike but I aint fuckin gettin it. Thats life | |||
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