FabSwingers.com forum: If we had stayed

By *oodmess OP Man
over a year ago

yumsville

With worldwide uncertainty, need for QE and state intervention in staving off recession. Savers tightening their belts and several big businesses looking to Europe for their HQ's. The UK people realising they have been lied to on a mass scale. The realisation that Brexit is not an immediate trigger and 'project fear' was just a sound-bite. Immigration policy integral to the out campaign, not yet implemented but the jobs they do essential to our economy. The rewriting of our legal system and trade policies needing not only extended time but probably concessions on free movement contrary to the Brexit campaign?

Do you think Cameron's EU reforms would have put us in a better future position than what we are in now, would we still have had Boris, or would you still vote leave?

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By *oyce69Man
over a year ago

Driffield

"With worldwide uncertainty, need for QE and state intervention in staving off recession. Savers tightening their belts and several big businesses looking to Europe for their HQ's. The UK people realising they have been lied to on a mass scale. The realisation that Brexit is not an immediate trigger and 'project fear' was just a sound-bite. Immigration policy integral to the out campaign, not yet implemented but the jobs they do essential to our economy. The rewriting of our legal system and trade policies needing not only extended time but probably concessions on free movement contrary to the Brexit campaign?

Do you think Cameron's EU reforms would have put us in a better future position than what we are in now, would we still have had Boris, or would you still vote leave?

Camerons reforms were worthless, and both sides lied through their back teeth, and yes, I would still vote out.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Do you think Cameron's EU reforms would have put us in a better future position than what we are in now, would we still have had Boris, or would you still vote leave?

what reforms? There weren't any. And we would vote to leave even more so now and I'm sure if another vote was held tomorrow even more would vote to leave

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Do you think Cameron's EU reforms would have put us in a better future position than what we are in now, would we still have had Boris, or would you still vote leave?

Look how the country voted by areas. London did great in the eu at the expense of areas like the northeast england. Yep we got eu funding for things but it is still crap, so i voted out as it?s worth the risk

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Do you think Cameron's EU reforms would have put us in a better future position than what we are in now, would we still have had Boris, or would you still vote leave?

Your pre-amble was totally flawed, incorrect on every statement and showed a huge bias towards 'Remain'. However that is your right but forgive me if I disagree with the picture you just painted.

Cameron was an utter disgrace both in the EU 'Reforms' (which made him look like Oliver Twist) and in the Referendum debate (which made him look desperate). And I say that as a lifelong Tory.

I watched Boris at Wembley and I saw the crowd's reaction. The man put into clear words people's fears and anxieties about the EU and more importantly their aspirations for something better. So regardless of the trivia that Cameron brought back yes we would have still had Boris.

And finally YES I would still vote Leave. And if there was a referendum today I would vote Leave again....

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By *oodmess OP Man
over a year ago

yumsville

Do you think Cameron's EU reforms would have put us in a better future position than what we are in now, would we still have had Boris, or would you still vote leave?

Your pre-amble was totally flawed, incorrect on every statement and showed a huge bias towards 'Remain'. However that is your right but forgive me if I disagree with the picture you just painted.

Cameron was an utter disgrace both in the EU 'Reforms' (which made him look like Oliver Twist) and in the Referendum debate (which made him look desperate). And I say that as a lifelong Tory.

And finally YES I would still vote Leave. And if there was a referendum today I would vote Leave again...."

Playing on people fears and anxieties is what got Boris and Farage so many votes. It's similar to Trump. No policies yet contempt, lies and media blunders.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Do you think Cameron's EU reforms would have put us in a better future position than what we are in now, would we still have had Boris, or would you still vote leave?

Your pre-amble was totally flawed, incorrect on every statement and showed a huge bias towards 'Remain'. However that is your right but forgive me if I disagree with the picture you just painted.

Cameron was an utter disgrace both in the EU 'Reforms' (which made him look like Oliver Twist) and in the Referendum debate (which made him look desperate). And I say that as a lifelong Tory.

And finally YES I would still vote Leave. And if there was a referendum today I would vote Leave again....

Playing on people fears and anxieties is what got Boris and Farage so many votes. It's similar to Trump. No policies yet contempt, lies and media blunders. "

Playing on people fears and anxieties is what got Cameron and Osborne so few votes. It's similar to Trump. No policies yet contempt, lies and media blunders.

Your statement can so easily be changed to reflect the truth I couldn't resist. You confuse a Binary question Referendum where we were asked 'remain' or 'leave' with a General Election where we vote for parties offering different policies.

So you might understand what was actually said Vote Leave were offering a set of options open to any future Government of any political persuasion that were not open to them within the EU.

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By *oodmess OP Man
over a year ago

yumsville

Playing on people fears and anxieties is what got Cameron and Osborne so few votes. It's similar to Trump. No policies yet contempt, lies and media blunders.

So you might understand what was actually said Vote Leave were offering a set of options open to any future Government of any political persuasion that were not open to them within the EU."

Once reform is made, who is to say what other ratifications would have been made by any other party (or country), further down the line. Vote leave took the referendum from a choice of in or out to party politics. It divided a nation and lied to get what it wanted. Ultimately failing in what it promised to deliver on. So how can you argue that it has given us options when our present options are driven by the same mechanisms that governed us before; those being financial security, tarns-national agreements etc etc etc

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By *oodmess OP Man
over a year ago

yumsville

It could also be argued that Corbyns efforts didn't reach the electorate, as has been widely reported, people did not know why they actually voted out.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I voted to remain and im still steadfast that to leave was the wrong decision i dont believe the economy will collapse i dont believe the world will end i simply believe that we will end up like all the other european non member states and continue to adopt EU rule and regulation without the ability to vito or influence change and to be frank anyone who truly believes we wont have to concede to free movement and payments in are clearly deluded

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"It could also be argued that Corbyns efforts didn't reach the electorate, as has been widely reported, people did not know why they actually voted out. "

Perhaps they put the cross in the wrong box by mistake. 17 million times

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"I voted to remain and im still steadfast that to leave was the wrong decision i dont believe the economy will collapse i dont believe the world will end i simply believe that we will end up like all the other european non member states and continue to adopt EU rule and regulation without the ability to vito or influence change and to be frank anyone who truly believes we wont have to concede to free movement and payments in are clearly deluded "

I am deluded then

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By *tillup4funMan
over a year ago

Wakefield

Playing on people fears and anxieties is what got Cameron and Osborne so few votes. It's similar to Trump. No policies yet contempt, lies and media blunders.

So you might understand what was actually said Vote Leave were offering a set of options open to any future Government of any political persuasion that were not open to them within the EU.

The referendum was nothing to do with party politics it was about staying or leaving the EU. A democratic vote was taken were every vote counted and we decided as a nation to leave.

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By *enard ArgenteMan
over a year ago

London and France

Like many: I shall vote " rejoin" at the next referendum.

Though it will probably not be necessary, since it is now increasingly likely that "BREXIT" will never happen.

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By *oodmess OP Man
over a year ago

yumsville

The question is: imagine for a moment if we would have remained. Where would we be....

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"The question is: imagine for a moment if we would have remained. Where would we be...."

in the shit

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By *tillup4funMan
over a year ago

Wakefield

"Like many: I shall vote " rejoin" at the next referendum.

Though it will probably not be necessary, since it is now increasingly likely that "BREXIT" will never happen.

Why is it looking like "BREXIT" will never happen? What do you think will happen if it does,nt?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Like many: I shall vote " rejoin" at the next referendum.

Though it will probably not be necessary, since it is now increasingly likely that "BREXIT" will never happen.

Of corse it will happen! It has to now becaus that's the way the vote went, if for some reason the government did a U turn Juncker and his cronies would have a field day nailing every rule they wanted to the deal. Disaster!!!!!

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I am deluded then"

Our biggest export is services and nearlly 50% of our total exports go to the EU we legally cannot negotiate trade deals with anyone else until we are out of the EU that means securing full access to the single market is paramount and all the think tanks and experts have said the same

Full access to the single market comes at a price its just the way it is even the leading brexit campaigners are now saying that taking back control of immigration isnt going to happen why should anyone believe it will

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I am deluded then

what price do countries who are not in the EU have to pay for full access to the single market? And in particular on services?

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By *oodmess OP Man
over a year ago

yumsville

"Like many: I shall vote " rejoin" at the next referendum.

Though it will probably not be necessary, since it is now increasingly likely that "BREXIT" will never happen.

Why is it looking like "BREXIT" will never happen? What do you think will happen if it does,nt?"

Immigration: France move their border to Dover, we are put in the shit trying to cope with policing it.

Immigration: sending people back to war torn countries - a direct violation of human rights.

Immigration: not earning £31k send them back, seasonal workers, cleaners, temporary staff, that Brits simply do not want to do will grind to a halt.

Immigration: race crimes on the increase due to the fractious nature of Farage and his disillusioned voters.

Freedom of movement: No free trade agreements without it. We will never get decent trade agreements without freedom of movement, or there would be no need for the EU.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Like many: I shall vote " rejoin" at the next referendum.

Though it will probably not be necessary, since it is now increasingly likely that "BREXIT" will never happen.

Why is it looking like "BREXIT" will never happen? What do you think will happen if it does,nt?

Immigration: France move their border to Dover, we are put in the shit trying to cope with policing it.

Immigration: sending people back to war torn countries - a direct violation of human rights.

Immigration: not earning £31k send them back, seasonal workers, cleaners, temporary staff, that Brits simply do not want to do will grind to a halt.

Immigration: race crimes on the increase due to the fractious nature of Farage and his disillusioned voters.

Freedom of movement: No free trade agreements without it. We will never get decent trade agreements without freedom of movement, or there would be no need for the EU.

there wasn't and there isn't

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I am deluded then

what price do countries who are not in the EU have to pay for full access to the single market? And in particular on services?"

It all depends on the deal they managed to secure but norway were the example the brexit campaign used and they pay in the same per capita as we do

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I am deluded then

what price do countries who are not in the EU have to pay for full access to the single market? And in particular on services?

It all depends on the deal they managed to secure but norway were the example the brexit campaign used and they pay in the same per capita as we do "

Were they? I thought they said we would do our own deal.

Anyway, other countries from outside the EU have benefitted more from access to the single market than the UK has.

Do you think that paying a fee the equivalent of 7% on our exported goods to the EU is better than paying say, a 3% tariff? And it could be argued that there are no tariffs on services

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I am deluded then"

You, me and over 17 million others apparently.

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By *oodmess OP Man
over a year ago

yumsville

I am deluded then

You, me and over 17 million others apparently.

Can you not accept a percentage of that 17,000,000 were coerced or simply ignorant to that what they were voting for, given what you now know. Or are you still as adamant in your belief to being right.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I am deluded then

You clearly didn't know that the 'Single Market' in Services has not been completed yet. It doesn't actually exist. And when it does those in it will have to pay an EU Transaction Tax which would have hit the UK especially hard as it does more 'transactions' being the biggest markets. And there is more to 'Services' than the City of London by the way. How does a UK haulier compete against the EU subsidised Polish hauliers?

What is this obsession with 'full access to the Single Market'? It is only a Single Market WITHIN the EU! To everyone outside its a bunch of countries in a protective Customs Union. Does the USA trade with Germany? Yes. Does it have free movement of people, pay a £13 Bn a year fee and have its laws made in Brussels? NO.... And neither will we.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I am deluded then

You, me and over 17 million others apparently.

No. And to say we were is an absolute insult to people's honesty and intelligence. See what is rewally interesting is that the 'Remoaners' like you seek to challenge those who voted to Leave as sort of 2nd class citizens, poeople who were poorly educated and opf course racists, xenophobic Little Englanders.

well with respect screw that ... and if we were 'coerced' then so were the Remainers of this world. Scared shitless by a Government engaged in a vicious and shameful 'Project Fear' campaign that is still chugging away and having an unnecessarily negative effect on people's outlook.

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By *igsteve43Man
over a year ago

derby

I am deluded then

what price do countries who are not in the EU have to pay for full access to the single market? And in particular on services?

It all depends on the deal they managed to secure but norway were the example the brexit campaign used and they pay in the same per capita as we do "

Difference is norway do not have to pay immigrants welfare so end result isan immigration level they can cope with also they are not forced to implement any eu laws id take that deal

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I am deluded then

You, me and over 17 million others apparently.

except in the shops eh

I see retail sales are well up last month on what the 'experts' predicted

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I am deluded then

what price do countries who are not in the EU have to pay for full access to the single market? And in particular on services?

It all depends on the deal they managed to secure but norway were the example the brexit campaign used and they pay in the same per capita as we do

Difference is norway do not have to pay immigrants welfare so end result isan immigration level they can cope with also they are not forced to implement any eu laws id take that deal"

They dont have to obey any EU law.... Other than the free movement of people, goods, services and capital... Other than making contributions in.... Other than adhering to the worktime directive employee and employers rights..... Other than maintaining the minimum standard of financial regulation and market standards

Funny to me it seems like they do lol

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By *oodmess OP Man
over a year ago

yumsville

I am deluded then

You, me and over 17 million others apparently.

except in the shops eh

I see retail sales are well up last month on what the 'experts' predicted

And yet we now have a pensions crisis, an announcement yesterday from the biggest investment fund management company in the world (Norwegian) pulling £1.7bn from UK gilts as they do not have good futures. A fractious sterling, major business looking to relocate and one or two already gone bust. The alternative being what I said in my OP being the status quo, only with revisions to EU policy. Would that not have increased UK interest and stability?

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By *tillup4funMan
over a year ago

Wakefield

"Like many: I shall vote " rejoin" at the next referendum.

Though it will probably not be necessary, since it is now increasingly likely that "BREXIT" will never happen.

Why is it looking like "BREXIT" will never happen? What do you think will happen if it does,nt?

Immigration: France move their border to Dover, we are put in the shit trying to cope with policing it.

Immigration: sending people back to war torn countries - a direct violation of human rights.

Immigration: not earning £31k send them back, seasonal workers, cleaners, temporary staff, that Brits simply do not want to do will grind to a halt.

Immigration: race crimes on the increase due to the fractious nature of Farage and his disillusioned voters.

Freedom of movement: No free trade agreements without it. We will never get decent trade agreements without freedom of movement, or there would be no need for the EU.

We were told to move our border back to Dover over 4 weeks ago but its still over in France I wonder why that is?

Refugees from war torn countries are supposed to seek asylum in the first country they go to.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I am deluded then

You, me and over 17 million others apparently.

except in the shops eh

I see retail sales are well up last month on what the 'experts' predicted

a pensions crisis? All because of a referendum a few weeks ago?

So which businesses are looking to relocate and who has gone bust?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Do you think Cameron's EU reforms would have put us in a better future position than what we are in now, would we still have had Boris, or would you still vote leave?

YAWN. BOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOORING!

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

" And yet we now have a pensions crisis"

Well not quite. Given the Stock Exchange FTSEs are at 53 week highs the Pension funds that buy those Stocks and Shares are seeing a profit and potentially some good dividends.

" an announcement yesterday from the biggest investment fund management company in the world (Norwegian) pulling £1.7bn from UK gilts as they do not have good futures."

Do you understand what 'poor returns' on GILTs means exactly? It means the Government can issue any amount of debt it needs and be charged very low 'Yields' (interest to you and me) and there is a strong demand for those GILTs. They actually turned negative the other week. And so a firm decides to look for higher profits. So what?

" A fractious sterling "

Not quite. It has dropped about 10% Trade Weighted the day after Brexit and has floated around the £1.31 to the $ ever since and it is just under £1.32 today. And that is both good (for Farmers and exporters) and bad (for items bought from aboard).

" major business looking to relocate and one or two already gone bust."

You do not make your case batter by fabricating untruths mate. So who has relocated or is even looking to relocate? None that I know of but I can show you companies who have decided to re-locate TO the UK post Brexit. Including the German Bourse!

And who has gone bust because of Brexit? And please don't say BHS ...

" The alternative being what I said in my OP being the status quo, only with revisions to EU policy. Would that not have increased UK interest and stability?"

Not in the slightest ...

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I am deluded then

You, me and over 17 million others apparently.

except in the shops eh

I see retail sales are well up last month on what the 'experts' predicted

Exactly.

And the employment rate keeps improving and is now at 1.64 Million or 4.9% figures up to end of June.

Wages excluding bonuses rose 2.3% in the three months to June according to the ONS.

The number of people on the claimant count in July, the first month since the Referendum, was 763,600, down 8,600 from June.

And remember all the 'Experts' who were giving 'forecasts'?

Hargreaves Lansdown economist Ben Brettell said today that while forward-looking surveys to gauge business confidence had suggested the Brexit vote had delivered a shock, "surveys are driven by sentiment, and can therefore overreact".

"The dramatic fall in confidence may not ultimately be borne out by activity, and today's claimant count number is a tentative sign that things might not turn out as bad as many predicted," he said.

So Project fear wasn't frightening business after all...

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I'm somewhat 50/50 on whether we will leave or not. I think a lot of people feel as though the momentum to leave is slowing (at least a lot of leave voters I have spoke to feel this way), now that the US, Canada, Singapore and the Eastern block EU countries have given the brexit comittee a bit of a stomp on the foot in terms or what we want against what we might get from them in terms of a realistic trade deal.

Obviously that non-binding referendum should be upheld and we should try to leave to respect what we must take as public opinion.

However we should have a binding public vote to ratify the 'model' (arrangements that Britain has with not just the EU but global community) that Britain would be operating by.

I'm quite interested in actually seeing which other country's model we base ours upon and change to suit us.

Most people rule out Norway as Norwegian politics operates around a population of roughly Manchester and Leeds/Bradford areas combined, alongside high taxation. Something a lot of politicians think would work here. Plus, I think that free movement of capital and labour would be a deal breaker.

Liechtenstein is gaining popularity again as they have a services based economy much like the one which underpins us now.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I am deluded then

You, me and over 17 million others apparently.

except in the shops eh

I see retail sales are well up last month on what the 'experts' predicted

Exactly.

And the employment rate keeps improving and is now at 1.64 Million or 4.9% figures up to end of June.

Wages excluding bonuses rose 2.3% in the three months to June according to the ONS.

The number of people on the claimant count in July, the first month since the Referendum, was 763,600, down 8,600 from June.

And remember all the 'Experts' who were giving 'forecasts'?

"The dramatic fall in confidence may not ultimately be borne out by activity, and today's claimant count number is a tentative sign that things might not turn out as bad as many predicted," he said.

So Project fear wasn't frightening business after all...

Whilst I appreciate that you gave evidence, most of the reputable economic forecasts were talking two to five years in the future. I was not wholely sold on remaining or leaving but I think that until a 'model' for post brexit britain is draw up and we have new formal trade agreements, and until we actually leave, neither side should actually sit easy.

Ultimately, I suppose it comes down which public polices and trade policies are put in place as to how Britain will be out of the EU.

I think a lot of fears currently are that wages might have to freeze or decrease in order for companies to remain competitive. But once again, I can appreciate that this might not be the case.

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By *oodmess OP Man
over a year ago

yumsville

" And yet we now have a pensions crisis

Well not quite. Given the Stock Exchange FTSEs are at 53 week highs the Pension funds that buy those Stocks and Shares are seeing a profit and potentially some good dividends.

an announcement yesterday from the biggest investment fund management company in the world (Norwegian) pulling £1.7bn from UK gilts as they do not have good futures.

A fractious sterling

major business looking to relocate and one or two already gone bust.

And who has gone bust because of Brexit? And please don't say BHS ...

The alternative being what I said in my OP being the status quo, only with revisions to EU policy. Would that not have increased UK interest and stability?

Not in the slightest ..."

Great effort. Now would you reconsider a more diluted answer to if the 17,000,000 electorate was in any way swayed by utter garbage in their voting? Or, will you still take this personally as you voted out so have to defend that decision.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

" Great effort. Now would you reconsider a more diluted answer to if the 17,000,000 electorate was in any way swayed by utter garbage in their voting?"

I already answered that above. And no we weren't any more than Remainers were 'swayed'.

" Or, will you still take this personally as you voted out so have to defend that decision."

Can you not differentiate between a detailed response to what is a complicated question and someone 'taking it personally'? And I have no problems defending the Brexit decision as it was totally the right decision....

Diluted enough?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

On the 23rd June I went into the voting booth and put my cross into the leave box. I did this with around a 60% feeling of certainty that I was doing the right thing. Given everything that has happened since, political turmoil, Cameron resigning, labour in meltdown, weeping and hysteria from remainers. I now feel that if asked to vote again, I would vote leave again this time with a feeling of 90% certainty that it is the right thing to do.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"On the 23rd June I went into the voting booth and put my cross into the leave box. I did this with around a 60% feeling of certainty that I was doing the right thing. Given everything that has happened since, political turmoil, Cameron resigning, labour in meltdown, weeping and hysteria from remainers. I now feel that if asked to vote again, I would vote leave again this time with a feeling of 90% certainty that it is the right thing to do."

That is your opinion and you are entitled to it.

I however have a different opinion. I would vote leave again and I would have a feeling of 100% certainty it is the right thing to do

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I just love how people use statistics from when Britain are in the EU as an example to highlight how leaving the EU isn't going to cause any problems.

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By *LCCCouple
over a year ago

Cambridge

"The question is: imagine for a moment if we would have remained. Where would we be...."

£70 billion richer for a start as we wouldn't have had to do QE.

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By *an_WoodMan
over a year ago

Stafford

Can we restart this debate when we actually leave ?

Or when there is hint of what the BREXIT deal looks like.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"I just love how people use statistics from when Britain are in the EU as an example to highlight how leaving the EU isn't going to cause any problems.

the way people use statistics from when Britain are in the EU as an example to highlight how leaving the EU will cause problems?

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By *LCCCouple
over a year ago

Cambridge

I am deluded then

Perhaps the "obsession" with it is that it is worth about 4% or £73 billion per year to our economy?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I am deluded then

Perhaps the "obsession" with it is that it is worth about 4% or £73 billion per year to our economy?

Had this on another thread when the unnaminous conclusion was it was all 'if' and 'could' not 'will' and 'would'. Or put another way. You was talking shit

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By *LCCCouple
over a year ago

Cambridge

I am deluded then

Perhaps the "obsession" with it is that it is worth about 4% or £73 billion per year to our economy?

Had this on another thread when the unnaminous conclusion was it was all 'if' and 'could' not 'will' and 'would'. Or put another way. You was talking shit

The Institute for Fiscal Studies said it. I know how much you like to tell everyone that you know more than anyone else about any topic, but we all know its not true.

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By *LCCCouple
over a year ago

Cambridge

That is your opinion and you are entitled to it.

I however have a different opinion. I would vote leave again and I would have a feeling of 100% certainty it is the right thing to do

Well 1.2m regretted their decision

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/brexit-news-second-eu-referendum-leave-voters-regret-bregret-choice-in-millions-a7113336.html

But that data is from the Vote Leave campaign themselves and we know what a bunch of liars they are!

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By *LCCCouple
over a year ago

Cambridge

The usual suspects have done the Brexit Punch and Judy with each other for a few months now, and as fun as that as been, it would be nice if we could try and find some consensus on some issues.

So let's see if there are at least somethings that we can agree on?

Do you think that we can agree that we don't know exactly what Brexit will look like yet? I know I don't.

I'm hoping that that isn't too controversial a statement and is something we can agree on?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"The usual suspects have done the Brexit Punch and Judy with each other for a few months now, and as fun as that as been, it would be nice if we could try and find some consensus on some issues.

So let's see if there are at least somethings that we can agree on?

Do you think that we can agree that we don't know exactly what Brexit will look like yet? I know I don't.

I'm hoping that that isn't too controversial a statement and is something we can agree on?"

There is no point asking that on here, all you'll get is get at the most, 12 different opinions on whether free movement of capital and labour are worth access to the single market, or whether we should just go by WTO regulations and tariffs.

And then a people saying "we wont have a Norwegian or Swiss style model, Britain will get special exemptions and we will have a British model for Brexit."

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By *LCCCouple
over a year ago

Cambridge

"The usual suspects have done the Brexit Punch and Judy with each other for a few months now, and as fun as that as been, it would be nice if we could try and find some consensus on some issues.

So let's see if there are at least somethings that we can agree on?

Do you think that we can agree that we don't know exactly what Brexit will look like yet? I know I don't.

I'm hoping that that isn't too controversial a statement and is something we can agree on?

And then a people saying "we wont have a Norwegian or Swiss style model, Britain will get special exemptions and we will have a British model for Brexit.""

I wasn't trying to get them to agree about what it SHOULD look like, just that what it WILL look like, isn't certain at this stage.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"The usual suspects have done the Brexit Punch and Judy with each other for a few months now, and as fun as that as been, it would be nice if we could try and find some consensus on some issues.

So let's see if there are at least somethings that we can agree on?

Do you think that we can agree that we don't know exactly what Brexit will look like yet? I know I don't.

I'm hoping that that isn't too controversial a statement and is something we can agree on?

And then a people saying "we wont have a Norwegian or Swiss style model, Britain will get special exemptions and we will have a British model for Brexit."

I wasn't trying to get them to agree about what it SHOULD look like, just that what it WILL look like, isn't certain at this stage. "

I agree, but I've learnt from trying to have this discussion that the leave camp varies from 'I wanted out no matter the cost' through to 'I just think we will have better fortunes out of the EU' to 'leaving was the lesser of two evils'.

Basically, the phrase, Brexit means Brexit, seems to sum it up for some people, whilst others, like you and I are well aware that nothing is set in stone yet.

Asking people to admit that we don't know what it will look like, just stokes a very angry fire on both sides of the topic right now and I'm getting fed up of people shouting a few select things back and forth now.

If people were actively trying to discuss what the UK needs from the EU and the world, bringing in our industry and population size, then I'd encourage it, but right now, we are still just getting one liners.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

You do not need free movement of capital and labour to access the single market, that was covered earlier.

Now can anyone say why trade deals are so important?

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By *oodmess OP Man
over a year ago

yumsville

That is your opinion and you are entitled to it.

I however have a different opinion. I would vote leave again and I would have a feeling of 100% certainty it is the right thing to do

Well 1.2m regretted their decision

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/brexit-news-second-eu-referendum-leave-voters-regret-bregret-choice-in-millions-a7113336.html

But that data is from the Vote Leave campaign themselves and we know what a bunch of liars they are!

Had to laugh at that.

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By *oodmess OP Man
over a year ago

yumsville

"You do not need free movement of capital and labour to access the single market, that was covered earlier.

Now can anyone say why trade deals are so important?"

Coz I like shaggin and my johnnis are made in Poland. If Poland increase their prices - I'm ginna have to go bareback or even stop altogether. Or let the NHS pick up my STD bill

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"You do not need free movement of capital and labour to access the single market, that was covered earlier.

Now can anyone say why trade deals are so important?

Coz I like shaggin and my johnnis are made in Poland. If Poland increase their prices - I'm ginna have to go bareback or even stop altogether. Or let the NHS pick up my STD bill

I'm sure other countries outside the EU make really small ones too. Relax

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By *oodmess OP Man
over a year ago

yumsville

Can you not differentiate between a detailed response to what is a complicated question and someone 'taking it personally'?"

I asked a simple question.
"

The reporting is widespread, re. the campaign the Leave took. Yet, I gained a response equal to that an awkward duck, waddling along the street looking for a pond. It is not a complicated question to answer. Unless you are wholly unaware of the lies told during the campaign.

Being able to see aspects of an argument enables better judgement. At the moment you do not realise that the remainers do not care about leaving - we want it and want to get on with it. Leavers still seem to be smarting that they won, when it wasn't a fight!

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By *cottybhoyMan
over a year ago

falkirk

And then we have a Scottish perspective

UK Govt and parties rallied together to say remain in UK to remain in EU. Wee white lie there

UK PM voted to remain but now has to lead "us" out because of an unqualified vote based on misconceptions and lies - while many EU people living and working here with children who hold UK passports had no say.

The entire thing was fucked. Run by halfwits who had no idea what would happen and, as a consequence of victory, all fucked off - Farage, Boris and their crew. And we have a labour leader who didn't want to stay but said he did and unconvincingly tried to convince others to remain has totally screwed the only credible opposition to mad May.

Honest to fuck. No wonder we Scots drink!

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By *oodmess OP Man
over a year ago

yumsville

"You do not need free movement of capital and labour to access the single market, that was covered earlier.

Now can anyone say why trade deals are so important?

Coz I like shaggin and my johnnis are made in Poland. If Poland increase their prices - I'm ginna have to go bareback or even stop altogether. Or let the NHS pick up my STD bill

I'm sure other countries outside the EU make really small ones too. Relax

If you know they do then why ask about deals.

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By *oodmess OP Man
over a year ago

yumsville

"And then we have a Scottish perspective

UK Govt and parties rallied together to say remain in UK to remain in EU. Wee white lie there

Honest to fuck. No wonder we Scots drink!"

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By *cottybhoyMan
over a year ago

falkirk

And then we have this nonsense from fuckwits who cannot differentiate between immigration and a humanitarian refugee crisis that we and our American buddies caused.

For years our people have sauntered and lived all around Europe and beyond. Enjoying the fruits of their labours and establishing homes and businesses.

We have for many years welcomed people from parts of the world we colonised and they have - after years of inequality and abuse - become central figures in how we live and what we do. But almost every interview I have seen involving our neighbours from India, Pakistan and wherever has shown a commitment to leaving the EU to keep these bad Polish and Eastern Europeans out as they will take the jobs and hospital treatment they are entitled to! Gimme peace.

And as for the fuckwits that voted leave because dispossessed Syrians, Libyians and folk from Iraq are stealing our houses - they need to realise these countries are not in the EU. This is the result of the wars that we have illegally waged and we have a moral and economic duty to support them.

And then we have the Welsh who voted out despite getting more EU funding per capita than anyone. Explain that to me!

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"You do not need free movement of capital and labour to access the single market, that was covered earlier.

Now can anyone say why trade deals are so important?"

Cause trade isn't the simple process of some dude racking up to a city he doesn't live in with a wagon of olive oil, wheat and bronze, heading to the market square, then setting his stall up to sell stuff locals can't normally get.

Even people on the Brexit committee admit that if we trade by the World Trade Organisation, not only will there be an extra £9 billion atleast in tariff fees for buyers and consumers, but also that letting someone trade through the organisation has to ratified by all other trading partners, then all those partners have to have an individual trade agreement with the new member - these trade agreements often are used as leverage between countries to obtain other 'favours'.

Simply put, it the way of trade, the WTO could be seen as almost as clunky as the EU. Just with less health and safety legislation involved to protect consumer rights.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"And then we have a Scottish perspective

UK Govt and parties rallied together to say remain in UK to remain in EU. Wee white lie there

Honest to fuck. No wonder we Scots drink!"

No white or any other coloured lies anywhere at all. You Scots knew about 18 months before YOUR Referendum that there would be a Referendum in the whole of the UK on staying in or leaving the EU. So who misled who there then? Maybe you swallowed the SNP bullshit that the Uk would never leave the EU just as the 'Remain' campaign tried to have us believe but the WHOLE of the UK voted to Leave. Whether you like the result or not to say you were lied to by the UK Prime Minister is actually totally incorrect.

And as it happens over a million Scots also voted to Leave. So again for the Leader of the SNP to say 'the whole of Scotland voted to Remain' is utter bullshit. Forgetting of course that it was a Binary question on a UK wide basis where one vote counted the same as another and not a regional, sub national, Constituency or any other sort of vote.

As for those you say had no say it was a vote by British (and Irish) citizens what is so difficult about that? I might add that in September 2014 there was a Referendum vote to decide on the future of the whole UK and I, a British citizen never had a vote in that did I?

As for the rest of your sour grapes I lost interest ...

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

" Even people on the Brexit committee admit that if we trade by the World Trade Organisation, not only will there be an extra £9 billion atleast in tariff fees for buyers and consumers "

Care to give us the source of that statement so we can see the full context and you haven't been somewhat selective? I do not recall being briefed by anyone in Vote Leave that leaving the EU would would cost us £9 Billion in trade Tariffs. Because for a start the WTO does not levy Tariffs. they are agreed by the two parties concerned ...

And given the EU costs us £61 Bn a year in foreign currency as we run a trade deficit any Tariffs levied by the EU will be returned by the UK and show the UK Treasury and therefore us a profit ...

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Do you think Cameron's EU reforms would have put us in a better future position than what we are in now, would we still have had Boris, or would you still vote leave?

Too late for Ifs

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By *cottybhoyMan
over a year ago

falkirk

Missing the point - as so many of you do. The major parties misled the Scottish electorate on the basis that to remain within the UK was to remain within the EU. We had a General Election thereafter and an EU vote to appease the English Tory fuckwits that Cameron never thought he would lose.

How can you have a vote to kick the guy next door out who has children as British as you without him having a say? Seriously??

But Brits abroad can vote?

The entire thing was fucked. As you seem to be!

I don't see this split happening

Time for leaders to lead

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

In answer to an earlier question here is what 'Brexit' means to me:

* The UK Supreme Court will be in London.

* We will save a nett £31 Billion a year in EU membership fees.

* the UK Parliament will once more be the Supreme legislature in the UK.

* The UK will trade with the 27 remaining countries of the EU under a new Bilateral Trade Agreement.

* The UK will regain its seat at the WTO thus protecting us from penal or excessive or illegal Tariffs and barriers to free trade by the EU or anyone else.

* The UK will continue trading with the rest of the non-EU world as it does now but with reduced Tariffs.

* The Uk will discover new ways to create wealth, jobs and commerce being next door to the EU but actually in the rest of the world.

* Project Fear will be utterly discredited.

* British farmers will be supported by direct UK grants to farm more efficiently, make more profits and to bring back into use millions of acres of 'set aside' land to feed the UK with the best food in the world.

* British fishermen will be hugely assisted back into new fleets of boats built in yards up and down the UK to create the income from their heritage fishing grounds that THEY can now look after. And feed the UK the best fish in the world.

* British industry will surge ahead unfettered by unnecessary meddling and regulation from people who don't live or invest here.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Missing the point - as so many of you do. The major parties misled the Scottish electorate on the basis that to remain within the UK was to remain within the EU. We had a General Election thereafter and an EU vote to appease the English Tory fuckwits that Cameron never thought he would lose.

How can you have a vote to kick the guy next door out who has children as British as you without him having a say? Seriously??

But Brits abroad can vote?

The entire thing was fucked. As you seem to be!

I don't see this split happening

Time for leaders to lead"

Are you responding to me?

If so I am not 'fucked' thank you but ignoring the personal shit all I will say is that you Scots were told by Cameron over 18 months before YOUR referendum there would be a UK wide referendum on the EU.

No one is having anyone 'kicked out' and with respect if he / she / they do not hold a British passport they are NOT as British as me. But regardless of that pointless statement of yours people resident here now will NOT be asked to leave provided the EU has the same regard for British residents in the EU.

Those are the historical facts so stop trying to rewrite the facts to suit your bigotted ideas... Oh wait you are an SNP member right?.. OK we get that now .. Bye ...

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By *cottybhoyMan
over a year ago

falkirk

"In answer to an earlier question here is what 'Brexit' means to me:

* The UK Supreme Court will be in London.

* We will save a nett £31 Billion a year in EU membership fees.

* the UK Parliament will once more be the Supreme legislature in the UK.

* The UK will trade with the 27 remaining countries of the EU under a new Bilateral Trade Agreement.

* The UK will regain its seat at the WTO thus protecting us from penal or excessive or illegal Tariffs and barriers to free trade by the EU or anyone else.

* The UK will continue trading with the rest of the non-EU world as it does now but with reduced Tariffs.

* The Uk will discover new ways to create wealth, jobs and commerce being next door to the EU but actually in the rest of the world.

* Project Fear will be utterly discredited.

* British industry will surge ahead unfettered by unnecessary meddling and regulation from people who don't live or invest here."

And then you woke up!

So fucking deluded I doubt you've ever had your hole

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"In answer to an earlier question here is what 'Brexit' means to me:

* The UK Supreme Court will be in London.

* We will save a nett £31 Billion a year in EU membership fees.

* the UK Parliament will once more be the Supreme legislature in the UK.

* The UK will trade with the 27 remaining countries of the EU under a new Bilateral Trade Agreement.

* The UK will regain its seat at the WTO thus protecting us from penal or excessive or illegal Tariffs and barriers to free trade by the EU or anyone else.

* The UK will continue trading with the rest of the non-EU world as it does now but with reduced Tariffs.

* The Uk will discover new ways to create wealth, jobs and commerce being next door to the EU but actually in the rest of the world.

* Project Fear will be utterly discredited.

* British industry will surge ahead unfettered by unnecessary meddling and regulation from people who don't live or invest here.

And then you woke up!

So fucking deluded I doubt you've ever had your hole"

Whatever .. what the fuck ever ...

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By *cottybhoyMan
over a year ago

falkirk

"Are you responding to me?

Those are the historical facts so stop trying to rewrite the facts to suit your bigotted ideas... Oh wait you are an SNP member right?.. OK we get that now .. Bye ...

Not a member of SNP and with no desire to be

Cameron never thought he would lose and neither did his opponents. Hence the focus on the English pound if we voted to leave.

Children of the European Nationals who live, work and have committed their lives to this country who have UK passports are as British as you. Whether you like it or not.

But these people had no vote and neither did their parents

They won't be forced to leave? So why at the UK Border are we seeking to refuse entry to Europeans who may live here but have criminal records. You can guarantee nothing

No doubt you have moved to the front of the NHS queue. Your salary has tripled and savings quadrupled - shares gone through the roof. Your petrol has halved. UK produce now costs buttons, your children go to half empty classrooms and there is no crime. The streets are full of empty council houses for Brits to occupy and drink imported is so cheap you can't believe it.

What a world!

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Did someone just fart?

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By *cottybhoyMan
over a year ago

falkirk

"Did someone just fart?

"
Yeah. I'm sure it came from your mouth? Sorry - that was your attempt at an intelligent response

You too busy moving house, counting money or evicting neighbours whose children have British passports Adolf?

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By *cottybhoyMan
over a year ago

falkirk

"Did someone just fart?

And then I realised the fuckwit can't spell "discreet". This meaning careful and prudent.

Though as an anti-EU fuckwit perhaps "discrete" is just about right Adolf

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I am deluded then

Perhaps the "obsession" with it is that it is worth about 4% or £73 billion per year to our economy?

Had this on another thread when the unnaminous conclusion was it was all 'if' and 'could' not 'will' and 'would'. Or put another way. You was talking shit

The Institute for Fiscal Studies said it. I know how much you like to tell everyone that you know more than anyone else about any topic, but we all know its not true.

It was based on 'if' and 'could'. My goodness you are a fuckwit

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"In answer to an earlier question here is what 'Brexit' means to me:

* The UK Supreme Court will be in London.

* We will save a nett £31 Billion a year in EU membership fees.

* the UK Parliament will once more be the Supreme legislature in the UK.

* The UK will trade with the 27 remaining countries of the EU under a new Bilateral Trade Agreement.

* The UK will regain its seat at the WTO thus protecting us from penal or excessive or illegal Tariffs and barriers to free trade by the EU or anyone else.

* The UK will continue trading with the rest of the non-EU world as it does now but with reduced Tariffs.

* The Uk will discover new ways to create wealth, jobs and commerce being next door to the EU but actually in the rest of the world.

* Project Fear will be utterly discredited.

* British industry will surge ahead unfettered by unnecessary meddling and regulation from people who don't live or invest here."

Are you high

1. The brittish court is the supreme governing body we are bound by the european parliment to uphold certain standards what you dont seem to realsise is our national standards far exceed the european standards anyway the thing people get most upset by is an inability to kick out terrorist sympathisers because of the european bill on human rights but guess what.... Thats nothing to do with the EU we will still be bound to it

2. How will we save 31 billion are you seriously so deluded you think we will not continue to pay in

3. We will trade with europe under a new bi-lateral trade agreement most probably binding us to free movement, contributions and financial regulation along with all the laws that everyone who trades with them has to abide by (yes even the yanks have to maintain certain minimum standards in employment and financial law)

4. You want to escape the beurocratic noncense of the EU and you dont see that the WTO is equally if not more corrupt lol

5. We may get reduced tarrifs but if the cost of trade to the EU goes up for business's what good is it to us? nearlly half our trade goes to the EU remember the phrase dont shit where you eat i think it sums up brexit fairly well

6. "Project fear" or what the intellectuals call the advice from every major think tank, study or expert in the world but yeah i see what you mean its just fear mongering boris and nigel must be right.... Fuck me

7. As a derbyshire man from a family of farmers who have farmed for the last 200yrs let me tell you the EU has been fantastic for small business farmers i doubt the government will continue to subsidise the industry in the same way

8. I agree our fisheries may get a chance to flourish once more.... Thats of course after we have paid out huge sums of money in compensation to the other countries who now have long term lease agreements to the waters and livestock

9. Brittish industry hasnt gone to shit because of the EU it has gone to shit through lack of investment, infastructure and big business being able to cut costs by having manufacture abroad

Bottom line you can blame all our countries problems on the EU but its smoke and mirrors its what our government wants you too think cos it takes the blame away from where it should be and thats westminster ironically the same group of people your giving more power to so for that i say thankyou and well done (cue sarcastic clapping)

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By *LCCCouple
over a year ago

Cambridge

I am deluded then

Perhaps the "obsession" with it is that it is worth about 4% or £73 billion per year to our economy?

Had this on another thread when the unnaminous conclusion was it was all 'if' and 'could' not 'will' and 'would'. Or put another way. You was talking shit

The Institute for Fiscal Studies said it. I know how much you like to tell everyone that you know more than anyone else about any topic, but we all know its not true.

It was based on 'if' and 'could'. My goodness you are a fuckwit

You think you know more about the economy than the IFS, Bank of England, PwC etc.

You think you know more about defence than NATO.

You think you know more about climate change than the BAS, the UN, NASA etc.

You think you know more about research than Stephen Hawking and Royal Society.

And you think I’m the fuckwit?

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By *LCCCouple
over a year ago

Cambridge

"The usual suspects have done the Brexit Punch and Judy with each other for a few months now, and as fun as that as been, it would be nice if we could try and find some consensus on some issues.

So let's see if there are at least somethings that we can agree on?

Do you think that we can agree that we don't know exactly what Brexit will look like yet? I know I don't.

I'm hoping that that isn't too controversial a statement and is something we can agree on?

And then a people saying "we wont have a Norwegian or Swiss style model, Britain will get special exemptions and we will have a British model for Brexit."

I wasn't trying to get them to agree about what it SHOULD look like, just that what it WILL look like, isn't certain at this stage.

Basically, the phrase, Brexit means Brexit, seems to sum it up for some people, whilst others, like you and I are well aware that nothing is set in stone yet.

No, you were right. I had some hope that we could find consensus, but you’re right, it was futile.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"You do not need free movement of capital and labour to access the single market, that was covered earlier.

Now can anyone say why trade deals are so important?

Simply put, it the way of trade, the WTO could be seen as almost as clunky as the EU. Just with less health and safety legislation involved to protect consumer rights."

Simply put, the importance of trade deals and tariffs in todays world is exaggerated when compared to fluctuations in currencies. But ok I'll go along with it, so if trade deals are so good/important, how come the EU is so bad at making them and has so few?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Blair and his team of liars are the main architects of Brexit. He failed to deliver his promise of a referendum on the terms of the Lisbon treaty, hardly surprising as he knew the British people would have rejected it. However had we had the opportunity to reject Lisbon it could be argued we would have been more likely to stay with what inevitably would have been a less 'federal' and looser arrangement of nation states without the cruel and economically fatal eurozone. Sadly for eurphiles the genie is out of the bottle and the Brexit vote has set in train a series of events which will culminate in several years time with a disintegration of the EU as we know it. Hopefully the EU will be replaced by a far more realistic and workable cooperation between sovereign nations across Europe, including GB, Norway, Switzerland and who knows even Russia!

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Blair and his team of liars are the main architects of Brexit. He failed to deliver his promise of a referendum on the terms of the Lisbon treaty, hardly surprising as he knew the British people would have rejected it. However had we had the opportunity to reject Lisbon it could be argued we would have been more likely to stay with what inevitably would have been a less 'federal' and looser arrangement of nation states without the cruel and economically fatal eurozone. Sadly for eurphiles the genie is out of the bottle and the Brexit vote has set in train a series of events which will culminate in several years time with a disintegration of the EU as we know it. Hopefully the EU will be replaced by a far more realistic and workable cooperation between sovereign nations across Europe, including GB, Norway, Switzerland and who knows even Russia!"

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

" And yet we now have a pensions crisis

Well not quite. Given the Stock Exchange FTSEs are at 53 week highs the Pension funds that buy those Stocks and Shares are seeing a profit and potentially some good dividends.

an announcement yesterday from the biggest investment fund management company in the world (Norwegian) pulling £1.7bn from UK gilts as they do not have good futures.

A fractious sterling

major business looking to relocate and one or two already gone bust.

And who has gone bust because of Brexit? And please don't say BHS ...

The alternative being what I said in my OP being the status quo, only with revisions to EU policy. Would that not have increased UK interest and stability?

Not in the slightest ...

OP, do you really think that people could not tell what lies and exagerations were being presented (by both sides of the campaign)? If so, you have a very low opinion of the public.

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By *oodmess OP Man
over a year ago

yumsville

" And yet we now have a pensions crisis

Well not quite. Given the Stock Exchange FTSEs are at 53 week highs the Pension funds that buy those Stocks and Shares are seeing a profit and potentially some good dividends.

an announcement yesterday from the biggest investment fund management company in the world (Norwegian) pulling £1.7bn from UK gilts as they do not have good futures.

A fractious sterling

major business looking to relocate and one or two already gone bust.

And who has gone bust because of Brexit? And please don't say BHS ...

The alternative being what I said in my OP being the status quo, only with revisions to EU policy. Would that not have increased UK interest and stability?

Not in the slightest ...

OP, do you really think that people could not tell what lies and exagerations were being presented (by both sides of the campaign)? If so, you have a very low opinion of the public."

I was more thinking of Lowcosttravelgroup in going bust affecting 150,000+ people at the height of summer (from memory). Though it is not my opinion, it is maintained fact as mentioned in this thread. That 1.2m would not have voted leave if they would have known what they know now.

My opinion is that I suspect it would be a whole lot higher if people understood the totality of their mark, instead of voting against the establishment (again as is widely reported).

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

" And yet we now have a pensions crisis

Well not quite. Given the Stock Exchange FTSEs are at 53 week highs the Pension funds that buy those Stocks and Shares are seeing a profit and potentially some good dividends.

an announcement yesterday from the biggest investment fund management company in the world (Norwegian) pulling £1.7bn from UK gilts as they do not have good futures.

A fractious sterling

major business looking to relocate and one or two already gone bust.

And who has gone bust because of Brexit? And please don't say BHS ...

The alternative being what I said in my OP being the status quo, only with revisions to EU policy. Would that not have increased UK interest and stability?

Not in the slightest ...

OP, do you really think that people could not tell what lies and exagerations were being presented (by both sides of the campaign)? If so, you have a very low opinion of the public.

My opinion is that I suspect it would be a whole lot higher if people understood the totality of their mark, instead of voting against the establishment (again as is widely reported). "

"Maintained fact."

"Widely reported."

Hmmmm. I smell cows there.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

[Removed by poster at 19/08/16 13:31:29]

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I suspect that a re run of the referendum would result in a higher vote to leave for various reasons. one reason being the totally catastrophic refusal to accept the democratic result by the remainiacs and the accusations of stupidity and racism levelled at leave voters and the contempt for ordinary people shown by the Gaurdianistas, the BBC, ITN, Blairites, Nicola Sturgeon and the squealing liberal elite of London. Bring it on I say, a vote of greater than 60% to leave might finally ram home the point that for the majority of people in this country the EU represents waste, self interest, lack of democracy and failure to defend Europes borders and culture.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"I suspect that a re run of the referendum would result in a higher vote to leave for various reasons. one reason being the totally catastrophic refusal to accept the democratic result by the remainiacs and the accusations of stupidity and racism levelled at leave voters and the contempt for ordinary people shown by the Gaurdianistas, the BBC, ITN, Blairites, Nicola Sturgeon and the squealing liberal elite of London. Bring it on I say, a vote of greater than 60% to leave might finally ram home the point that for the majority of people in this country the EU represents waste, self interest, lack of democracy and failure to defend Europes borders and culture."

You know; that's absolutely spot on and very true

I bet many who had not even registered to vote would also register to ensure a leave vote

I sure as hell would be voting to leave once more

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I am deluded then

Perhaps the "obsession" with it is that it is worth about 4% or £73 billion per year to our economy?

Had this on another thread when the unnaminous conclusion was it was all 'if' and 'could' not 'will' and 'would'. Or put another way. You was talking shit

The Institute for Fiscal Studies said it. I know how much you like to tell everyone that you know more than anyone else about any topic, but we all know its not true.

It was based on 'if' and 'could'. My goodness you are a fuckwit

You think you know more about the economy than the IFS, Bank of England, PwC etc.

You think you know more about defence than NATO.

You think you know more about climate change than the BAS, the UN, NASA etc.

You think you know more about research than Stephen Hawking and Royal Society.

And you think I’m the fuckwit?

The key words in the report you used were 'if' and 'could'. It was the opinion of someone based on a forecast based on someone elses opinion. It wasn't a fact and it hasn't happened and may never happen.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

The EU is nothing more than a transient political entity which at its heart aspired to empire in the form of European Union. There is a long and sorry history of attempts at European Union, all of which have ended badly. The EU will similarly end badly and we have taken the correct decision to paddle our own canoe once again.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

" 2. How will we save 31 billion are you seriously so deluded you think we will not continue to pay in"

I will reply only to this part of your grossly inaccurate and somewhat assumptive reply to what was just how I see things going in response to an earlier question. It is my opinion it is not fact as none of it has happened yet. Just as your reply was equally opinionated and devoid of fact but opinions are great ....

I made a f**ck up typo. The figure is actually £13.2 Billion average a year for the last 5 years. I didn't check my typing so I apologise. Mind I could have added the £61 Billion a year it costs us in foreign currency trading with the EU as we run a Trade deficit. So that is actually £74.2 Billion a year.

But I won't play games. I screwed up and did it in public ...

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

You know; that's absolutely spot on and very true

I bet many who had not even registered to vote would also register to ensure a leave vote

I sure as hell would be voting to leave once more"

Back of the net guys ..

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By *oodmess OP Man
over a year ago

yumsville

You know; that's absolutely spot on and very true

I bet many who had not even registered to vote would also register to ensure a leave vote

I sure as hell would be voting to leave once more"

The whole of Cornwall and Wales may well swing the decision there

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

" "Did someone just fart? "

Yeah. I'm sure it came from your mouth? Sorry - that was your attempt at an intelligent response

You too busy moving house, counting money or evicting neighbours whose children have British passports Adolf?"

No I was giving your personally abusive shit the response it deserved Soft Lad... And Adolf?

" And then I realised the fuckwit can't spell "discreet". This meaning careful and prudent.

Though as an anti-EU fuckwit perhaps "discrete" is just about right Adolf"

I am not sure I used the word 'discrete' but hey ho I see the Grammar Nazis are back .. oops sorry it was the 'Adolf' thing again that threw me ...

And a 'fuckwit' because I see through the SNP / EU / Remoaner bullshit? Well there are now officially 17.4 million 'fuckwits' in the UK now then ...

I have this feeling a certain UK hating ex pat Brit, based on some islands somewhere off the coast of Spain, who likes to use the Hitler / Goebbels analogy linking someone who voted Brexit with people who murdered 6 million Jews has found a back door into the Forum after being banned ....

Any Mods about?

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By *cottybhoyMan
over a year ago

falkirk

" "Did someone just fart? "

Yeah. I'm sure it came from your mouth? Sorry - that was your attempt at an intelligent response

You too busy moving house, counting money or evicting neighbours whose children have British passports Adolf?

No I was giving your personally abusive shit the response it deserved Soft Lad... And Adolf?

And then I realised the fuckwit can't spell "discreet". This meaning careful and prudent.

Though as an anti-EU fuckwit perhaps "discrete" is just about right Adolf

I am not sure I used the word 'discrete' but hey ho I see the Grammar Nazis are back .. oops sorry it was the 'Adolf' thing again that threw me ...

And a 'fuckwit' because I see through the SNP / EU / Remoaner bullshit? Well there are now officially 17.4 million 'fuckwits' in the UK now then ...

Any Mods about?

Call the mods - someone disagrees with me lol. I stand by my comments.

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By *oodmess OP Man
over a year ago

yumsville

" "Did someone just fart? "

Yeah. I'm sure it came from your mouth? Sorry - that was your attempt at an intelligent response

You too busy moving house, counting money or evicting neighbours whose children have British passports Adolf?

No I was giving your personally abusive shit the response it deserved Soft Lad... And Adolf?

And then I realised the fuckwit can't spell "discreet". This meaning careful and prudent.

Though as an anti-EU fuckwit perhaps "discrete" is just about right Adolf

I am not sure I used the word 'discrete' but hey ho I see the Grammar Nazis are back .. oops sorry it was the 'Adolf' thing again that threw me ...

And a 'fuckwit' because I see through the SNP / EU / Remoaner bullshit? Well there are now officially 17.4 million 'fuckwits' in the UK now then ...

Any Mods about?

You do realise I started this thread with the question a certain imaginary question: What if we stayed.

You not only answer for everyone that voted leave but dont realise the question being asked. The question asked was where would we be - what situation would we be in - would Camerons four legislative pledges be held up. (Would our economy be in a better place)

NOT - The same old Brexit churn you have been talking about since June 23rd.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

If we had stayed we would be a significantly diminished nation, shackled to a failing political institution which would be hell bent on federalisation with renewed vigour, buoyed by the eurosceptic British finally bending the knee in surrender to the superiority of the EU elite! Just my opinion of course.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Just read that the knobs in Brussels are claiming that the EU is in 2nd place in the medals table at the Olympics

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By *oodmess OP Man
over a year ago

yumsville

"If we had stayed we would be a significantly diminished nation, shackled to a failing political institution which would be hell bent on federalisation with renewed vigour, buoyed by the eurosceptic British finally bending the knee in surrender to the superiority of the EU elite! Just my opinion of course."

You dont think reforms of any kind would have been granted or made any difference to how we would have operated within the EU?

Our position at the moment has destabilised banks showing how fragile it is, though within and with immigration reforms, would this not have strengthened our position exponentially ?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

You dont think reforms of any kind would have been granted or made any difference to how we would have operated within the EU?

Our position at the moment has destabilised banks showing how fragile it is, though within and with immigration reforms, would this not have strengthened our position exponentially ? "

I suspect Merkel et al are extremely sorry that they did not offer some serious reforms to Cameron. He may then have had an outside chance of keeping us in. As it is the reforms he achieved were materially insignificant and we would not have noticed any difference. Furthermore the EU federalists would have perceived a UK remain vote to be the thumbs up for an acceleration of the rush to full on federal arrangements. I believe we would have been finished as a sovereign nation, we have escaped by the skin of our teeth.

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By *LCCCouple
over a year ago

Cambridge

" "Did someone just fart? "

Yeah. I'm sure it came from your mouth? Sorry - that was your attempt at an intelligent response

You too busy moving house, counting money or evicting neighbours whose children have British passports Adolf?

No I was giving your personally abusive shit the response it deserved Soft Lad... And Adolf?

And then I realised the fuckwit can't spell "discreet". This meaning careful and prudent.

Though as an anti-EU fuckwit perhaps "discrete" is just about right Adolf

I am not sure I used the word 'discrete' but hey ho I see the Grammar Nazis are back .. oops sorry it was the 'Adolf' thing again that threw me ...

And a 'fuckwit' because I see through the SNP / EU / Remoaner bullshit? Well there are now officially 17.4 million 'fuckwits' in the UK now then ...

Any Mods about?

You do realise I started this thread with the question a certain imaginary question: What if we stayed.

NOT - The same old Brexit churn you have been talking about since June 23rd. "

What would have happened? We would still have Cameron (not really sure if that would be good or bad yet). We wouldn't be the laughing stock of the world. We wouldn't have had to spend £70 billion on QE. We wouldn't have seen an economic slow down. We wouldn't have seen funding and research grants being pulled. We wouldn't have seen seen massive infrastructure projects being mothballed. We wouldn't have seen the £ crash or opened up a £700m black hole in the defence budget. We wouldn't have seen a massive rise in hate crimes. So we would have been much better off really.

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By *LCCCouple
over a year ago

Cambridge

"Just read that the knobs in Brussels are claiming that the EU is in 2nd place in the medals table at the Olympics

But we are shit when it comes to the super bowl or baseball world series though.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

You dont think reforms of any kind would have been granted or made any difference to how we would have operated within the EU?

Our position at the moment has destabilised banks showing how fragile it is, though within and with immigration reforms, would this not have strengthened our position exponentially ? "

If they had made any meaningful offers for reform, it would have been different. They didn't.

And, yes, the EU structure is very fragile and getting more so. Another reason to leave.

It is founded on extremely dodgy philosophy. It can't survive indefinitely.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

" "Did someone just fart? "

Yeah. I'm sure it came from your mouth? Sorry - that was your attempt at an intelligent response

You too busy moving house, counting money or evicting neighbours whose children have British passports Adolf?

No I was giving your personally abusive shit the response it deserved Soft Lad... And Adolf?

And then I realised the fuckwit can't spell "discreet". This meaning careful and prudent.

Though as an anti-EU fuckwit perhaps "discrete" is just about right Adolf

I am not sure I used the word 'discrete' but hey ho I see the Grammar Nazis are back .. oops sorry it was the 'Adolf' thing again that threw me ...

And a 'fuckwit' because I see through the SNP / EU / Remoaner bullshit? Well there are now officially 17.4 million 'fuckwits' in the UK now then ...

Any Mods about?

You do realise I started this thread with the question a certain imaginary question: What if we stayed.

NOT - The same old Brexit churn you have been talking about since June 23rd.

none of that has happened, you don't understand QE and I would say at the moment we are the envy of the world, but keep thinking the worst if it makes you happy

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Just read that the knobs in Brussels are claiming that the EU is in 2nd place in the medals table at the Olympics

But we are shit when it comes to the super bowl or baseball world series though."

pssst.... the EU aren't in the Olympics

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

" "Did someone just fart? "

Yeah. I'm sure it came from your mouth? Sorry - that was your attempt at an intelligent response

You too busy moving house, counting money or evicting neighbours whose children have British passports Adolf?

No I was giving your personally abusive shit the response it deserved Soft Lad... And Adolf?

And then I realised the fuckwit can't spell "discreet". This meaning careful and prudent.

Though as an anti-EU fuckwit perhaps "discrete" is just about right Adolf

I am not sure I used the word 'discrete' but hey ho I see the Grammar Nazis are back .. oops sorry it was the 'Adolf' thing again that threw me ...

And a 'fuckwit' because I see through the SNP / EU / Remoaner bullshit? Well there are now officially 17.4 million 'fuckwits' in the UK now then ...

Any Mods about?

You do realise I started this thread with the question a certain imaginary question: What if we stayed.

NOT - The same old Brexit churn you have been talking about since June 23rd.

none of that has happened, you don't understand QE and I would say at the moment we are the envy of the world, but keep thinking the worst if it makes you happy

Spot on

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By *LCCCouple
over a year ago

Cambridge

" "Did someone just fart? "

Yeah. I'm sure it came from your mouth? Sorry - that was your attempt at an intelligent response

You too busy moving house, counting money or evicting neighbours whose children have British passports Adolf?

No I was giving your personally abusive shit the response it deserved Soft Lad... And Adolf?

And then I realised the fuckwit can't spell "discreet". This meaning careful and prudent.

Though as an anti-EU fuckwit perhaps "discrete" is just about right Adolf

I am not sure I used the word 'discrete' but hey ho I see the Grammar Nazis are back .. oops sorry it was the 'Adolf' thing again that threw me ...

And a 'fuckwit' because I see through the SNP / EU / Remoaner bullshit? Well there are now officially 17.4 million 'fuckwits' in the UK now then ...

Any Mods about?

You do realise I started this thread with the question a certain imaginary question: What if we stayed.

NOT - The same old Brexit churn you have been talking about since June 23rd.

none of that has happened, you don't understand QE and I would say at the moment we are the envy of the world, but keep thinking the worst if it makes you happy

You seem to live in a Post-Truth fantasy land. ALL of the above has happened. Fact, truth, in reality, its all happened. You can deny it all you want but it has happened.

Lets just look at 1 of the things that I have mentioned. The delaying of Hinckley Point. Widely reported in the news that it has been delayed. You say that it hasn't. Do you think that the contracts really have been signed and the media were just lying about it?

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By *LCCCouple
over a year ago

Cambridge

"Just read that the knobs in Brussels are claiming that the EU is in 2nd place in the medals table at the Olympics

But we are shit when it comes to the super bowl or baseball world series though.

pssst.... the EU aren't in the Olympics

Psst, they are talking about the medals won by the member states of the EU

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Just read that the knobs in Brussels are claiming that the EU is in 2nd place in the medals table at the Olympics

But we are shit when it comes to the super bowl or baseball world series though.

pssst.... the EU aren't in the Olympics

Psst, they are talking about the medals won by the member states of the EU"

Psst, the member states of the EU aren't competing under the EU banner. They are competing as independent countries.

The EU eagerly await the day that will no longer be possible though and have shown their true colours by making such an idiotic statement.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

" What would have happened? We would still have Cameron (not really sure if that would be good or bad yet). We wouldn't be the laughing stock of the world."

Cameron made two major errors and would still have had to go. As for laughing stock? Oh yeah who says so? You and your 'experts' who make 'forecasts' that aren't worth diddley?

" We wouldn't have had to spend £70 billion on QE."

The B of E has said it will put that money aside for possible purchases of Bonds but given the very high demand ('low yields') on Government Bonds (GILTs) there has been no need to buy Government Bonds. Although the last time it did that it made a substantial profit. So it is an investment in our future. It is not an external spend like the EU membership fee or total loss spend. Have a read and learn what QE actually is:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-15198789

" We wouldn't have seen an economic slow down."

So what 'slowdown' is that then? Retail sales are up 1.4% month on month in July and 6% up year on year. Employment has risen to the highest level in years and that was in the month of the Referendum. FTSEs are up at 53 week highs showing where the REAL investor confidence money has gone.

" We wouldn't have seen funding and research grants being pulled. "

Can you name any? And who says the research the EU wants is research WE want for the UK? Forgetting of course that it is UK money being recycled back into our universities. Who apparently do far less R & D than the private sector.....

" We wouldn't have seen seen massive infrastructure projects being mothballed."

Can you name any that have been 'mothballed'? I can't. And please don't say Hinckley Point....

" We wouldn't have seen the £ crash or opened up a £700m black hole in the defence budget."

the £ has fallen about 10% Trade Weighted which has been a massive bonus to UK Farmers for one group. You also forget the currency isn't the bellweather of a country's economy. The Stock exchange is. Currency markets are profit centres for speculators like IHS who are still running down the economy for corporate profit. And what 'black hole' is that in the UK Defence budget? You think they do not hedge forward currency purchases and have contracts catering for currency fluctuations? The current budget is some £37Bn. So even if that £700 Mn is right it is about 1.8% of the total budget...

" We wouldn't have seen a massive rise in hate crimes."

I wondered when that race thing would re-surface in your posts. It always does and its a bloody insult to every voter who supported 'leave' to somehow blame them. Ever thought that the festering reason for the rise was people fed up with uncontrolled immigration? Any hate crime is still wrong and despicable and unnecessary but to blame UK voters is just even more wrong. Look at the causes not the effects.

" So we would have been much better off really."

Apart from the fact you were wrong in every one of your reasons for being 'better off'. So I will take it we would not have been better off ...

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Just read that the knobs in Brussels are claiming that the EU is in 2nd place in the medals table at the Olympics

But we are shit when it comes to the super bowl or baseball world series though.

pssst.... the EU aren't in the Olympics

Psst, they are talking about the medals won by the member states of the EU

Psst, the member states of the EU aren't competing under the EU banner. They are competing as independent countries.

The EU eagerly await the day that will no longer be possible though and have shown their true colours by making such an idiotic statement."

Back of the net mate

Unlike our footballers ..

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By *LCCCouple
over a year ago

Cambridge

" What would have happened? We would still have Cameron (not really sure if that would be good or bad yet). We wouldn't be the laughing stock of the world.

Cameron made two major errors and would still have had to go. As for laughing stock? Oh yeah who says so? You and your 'experts' who make 'forecasts' that aren't worth diddley?

We wouldn't have had to spend £70 billion on QE.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-15198789

We wouldn't have seen an economic slow down.

We wouldn't have seen funding and research grants being pulled.

We wouldn't have seen seen massive infrastructure projects being mothballed.

Can you name any that have been 'mothballed'? I can't. And please don't say Hinckley Point....

We wouldn't have seen the £ crash or opened up a £700m black hole in the defence budget.

We wouldn't have seen a massive rise in hate crimes.

So we would have been much better off really.

Apart from the fact you were wrong in every one of your reasons for being 'better off'. So I will take it we would not have been better off ...

Its all happened, you know its happened, I know its happened, the media know its happened. You continue living in your post-truth, self constructed Brexit fantasy, but I am going to live in the real world.

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By *LCCCouple
over a year ago

Cambridge

"Just read that the knobs in Brussels are claiming that the EU is in 2nd place in the medals table at the Olympics

But we are shit when it comes to the super bowl or baseball world series though.

pssst.... the EU aren't in the Olympics

Psst, they are talking about the medals won by the member states of the EU

Psst, the member states of the EU aren't competing under the EU banner. They are competing as independent countries.

The EU eagerly await the day that will no longer be possible though and have shown their true colours by making such an idiotic statement."

Psst, no one said that they were!

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

" What would have happened? We would still have Cameron (not really sure if that would be good or bad yet). We wouldn't be the laughing stock of the world.

Cameron made two major errors and would still have had to go. As for laughing stock? Oh yeah who says so? You and your 'experts' who make 'forecasts' that aren't worth diddley?

We wouldn't have had to spend £70 billion on QE.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-15198789

We wouldn't have seen an economic slow down.

We wouldn't have seen funding and research grants being pulled.

We wouldn't have seen seen massive infrastructure projects being mothballed.

Can you name any that have been 'mothballed'? I can't. And please don't say Hinckley Point....

We wouldn't have seen the £ crash or opened up a £700m black hole in the defence budget.

We wouldn't have seen a massive rise in hate crimes.

So we would have been much better off really.

Apart from the fact you were wrong in every one of your reasons for being 'better off'. So I will take it we would not have been better off ...

Welcome to the real world! A world outside of the crumbling, fumbling, incompetent, anti democratic political institution known as the EU.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Do you think Cameron's EU reforms would have put us in a better future position than what we are in now, would we still have had Boris, or would you still vote leave?

What reforms did Cameron get?

Boris may be a buffoon sometimes but he is able to reach out to the general public so yes he is an asset.

I would vote leave again. And some people I know who voted remain only did so out of fear and would now vote leave in hindsight.

People voted to leave as in leave the union and the single market. The public aren't stupid and vote not for what may happen to some economic figure but on what impacts them personally. One of my family members voted remain as he didnt want interest rates to rise as he couldn't afford his mortgage. The country votes leave and his mortgage rate falls!

I would bet a months salary that May and Corbyn voted leave in the privacy of the voting booth x

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

" Apart from the fact you were wrong in every one of your reasons for being 'better off'. So I will take it we would not have been better off ... "

No it has NOT happened. NONE of anything you described has happened in any way. So NO the media or anyone else knows it hasn't happened either... Except in your sad little mind that really can't accept a democratic and historic vote.

And for the record the Hinckley Point delay (and is but a delay not a cancellation) is NOTHING to do with Brexit as all the foreign investment has been confirmed in writing. Sorry to disappoint you as you try to find crumbs of comfort in your depressing wish to deny history and run the UK down at every opportunity.

Very sad ... very sad ...

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Do you think Cameron's EU reforms would have put us in a better future position than what we are in now, would we still have had Boris, or would you still vote leave?

What reforms did Cameron get?

Boris may be a buffoon sometimes but he is able to reach out to the general public so yes he is an asset.

I would vote leave again. And some people I know who voted remain only did so out of fear and would now vote leave in hindsight.

I would bet a months salary that May and Corbyn voted leave in the privacy of the voting booth x"

you are so right and the person I most admire on this site

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By *oodmess OP Man
over a year ago

yumsville

" "Did someone just fart? "

Yeah. I'm sure it came from your mouth? Sorry - that was your attempt at an intelligent response

You too busy moving house, counting money or evicting neighbours whose children have British passports Adolf?

No I was giving your personally abusive shit the response it deserved Soft Lad... And Adolf?

And then I realised the fuckwit can't spell "discreet". This meaning careful and prudent.

Though as an anti-EU fuckwit perhaps "discrete" is just about right Adolf

I am not sure I used the word 'discrete' but hey ho I see the Grammar Nazis are back .. oops sorry it was the 'Adolf' thing again that threw me ...

And a 'fuckwit' because I see through the SNP / EU / Remoaner bullshit? Well there are now officially 17.4 million 'fuckwits' in the UK now then ...

Any Mods about?

You do realise I started this thread with the question a certain imaginary question: What if we stayed.

NOT - The same old Brexit churn you have been talking about since June 23rd.

none of that has happened, you don't understand QE and I would say at the moment we are the envy of the world, but keep thinking the worst if it makes you happy

Who is envying us?

I like my Union Jack under ware too, but mind backing anything you say up at least once?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

" Who is envying us?

I like my Union Jack under ware too, but mind backing anything you say up at least once?"
OK according to opinion polls these countries wish to hold an EU referendum because the populations of these countries are as fed up as we were with the failed political project that is the EU:

Italy

France

Greece

Portugal

Spain

Holland

Denmark

I suspect that countries with 50% youth unemployment, 10% overall unemployment, stagnant growth (or recessions like France) and banks that have been crippled by the Euro must be looking at us with historically low youth unemployment, 4.9% overall unemployment, Fastest growth in the G7 and the most secure banks in the world with whom to do business and asking 'when us Dear Lord. When us?'

I think that defines 'envy'.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

" "Did someone just fart? "

Yeah. I'm sure it came from your mouth? Sorry - that was your attempt at an intelligent response

You too busy moving house, counting money or evicting neighbours whose children have British passports Adolf?

No I was giving your personally abusive shit the response it deserved Soft Lad... And Adolf?

And then I realised the fuckwit can't spell "discreet". This meaning careful and prudent.

Though as an anti-EU fuckwit perhaps "discrete" is just about right Adolf

I am not sure I used the word 'discrete' but hey ho I see the Grammar Nazis are back .. oops sorry it was the 'Adolf' thing again that threw me ...

And a 'fuckwit' because I see through the SNP / EU / Remoaner bullshit? Well there are now officially 17.4 million 'fuckwits' in the UK now then ...

Any Mods about?

You do realise I started this thread with the question a certain imaginary question: What if we stayed.

NOT - The same old Brexit churn you have been talking about since June 23rd.

none of that has happened, you don't understand QE and I would say at the moment we are the envy of the world, but keep thinking the worst if it makes you happy

Who is envying us?

I like my Union Jack under ware too, but mind backing anything you say up at least once?"

I live in Spain for at least half of the year now and all my Spanish friends support Brexit. Go there and see how many Spanish now wear union jack t shirts

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By *LCCCouple
over a year ago

Cambridge

" Apart from the fact you were wrong in every one of your reasons for being 'better off'. So I will take it we would not have been better off ... "

Very sad ... very sad ..."

It has all happened! Why do you keep denying it? Just because you don't want it to be true it doesn't mean it will be wished away.

You really think that the £ hasn't crashed? You think all of the website and media outlets are lying about the rate before the referendum and the rate now? You think the MOD are lying to everyone about the impact on their budget?

The rise in hate crimes (I know you REALLY want to wish this one away), do you think the police are lying about the figures?

Hinkley Point has been delayed, FACT. This is as a result of Brexit. Without Brexit Cameron would still be PM, and the contracts would have been signed by now.

Why do you think the whole world is lying to you, and no one know what is really going on but you?

You are trying to live in a post-truth world where you can ignore facts if you don't like them.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

" Apart from the fact you were wrong in every one of your reasons for being 'better off'. So I will take it we would not have been better off ... "

Very sad ... very sad ...

It has all happened! Why do you keep denying it? Just because you don't want it to be true it doesn't mean it will be wished away.

The rise in hate crimes (I know you REALLY want to wish this one away), do you think the police are lying about the figures?

Hinkley Point has been delayed, FACT. This is as a result of Brexit. Without Brexit Cameron would still be PM, and the contracts would have been signed by now.

Why do you think the whole world is lying to you, and no one know what is really going on but you?

You are trying to live in a post-truth world where you can ignore facts if you don't like them. "

Re Hinckley Point - I've heard some bizarre accusations about the effect of Brexit but yours has to be one of the most ridiculous! Are you really serious?!

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

" It has all happened! Why do you keep denying it? Just because you don't want it to be true it doesn't mean it will be wished away."

What part of 'No it hasn't happened' are you having difficulty with? You group every small piece of news about the economy and twist it to be 'Because of Brexit'. And yet we never see you discussing the positives that have happened since. It is YOU in denial and fantasy land.

" You really think that the £ hasn't crashed? You think all of the website and media outlets are lying about the rate before the referendum and the rate now?"

No and stop being so sarcastic. I never said it hadn't dropped in value I just countered your exaggeration and gave the factual drop in Trade Weighted terms. I also said it was both good and bad which it is. You just see it as bad and 'proof' of something no one else sees.

" You think the MOD are lying to everyone about the impact on their budget?"
. Did I say that? No so stop manufacturing arguments. I just gave the context if the number you gave was correct. Not that you gave any sources as usual. I should think the increase in £ value of all the F-35 assemblies we manufacture alone has more than outweighed any other losses. Oh wait no you only do negatives sorry ...

" Hinkley Point has been delayed, FACT. This is as a result of Brexit. Without Brexit Cameron would still be PM, and the contracts would have been signed by now."

OK simple question: Give us the proof with sources that Hinckley Point has been delayed purely because of Brexit. Go for it ... We won't hold our breath.

" Why do you think the whole world is lying to you, and no one know what is really going on but you?

You are trying to live in a post-truth world where you can ignore facts if you don't like them."

Oh right. So now us Brexiters are paranoid as well as racist, xenophobic little Englanders? Pathetic.

I do not ignore any true facts at all and I am happy to give sources as well. I accept things as they are unlike you who turns and twists every small detail or 'forecast' to fit your pre-determined opinion that Brexit is a disaster and those who caused it are now also mentally ill.... As I said: PATHETIC!!

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By *LCCCouple
over a year ago

Cambridge

Re Hinckley Point - I've heard some bizarre accusations about the effect of Brexit but yours has to be one of the most ridiculous! Are you really serious?!

What on earth are you talking about? Of course I'm serious. Cameron approved the plan and started the whole thing so would have signed the contracts.

If the referendum had been Remain, then Cameron would have still been PM and signed.

What the hell do you think happened with Hinckley Point?

You Brexiters are living in a parallel world I swear.

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By *oodmess OP Man
over a year ago

yumsville

" Who is envying us?

I like my Union Jack under ware too, but mind backing anything you say up at least once? OK according to opinion polls these countries wish to hold an EU referendum because the populations of these countries are as fed up as we were with the failed political project that is the EU:

Italy

France

Greece

Portugal

Spain

Holland

Denmark

I think that defines 'envy'."

We had the the most secure banks as a result of banking reforms post 2007 financial crisis, as a result of European trade, as a result of our membership.

This is sharply contrasted now to RBS and Barclays having share prices slashed alongside other major banks being stressed, investment and growth predictions down due to our passports with 27 countries being uncertain.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Re Hinckley Point - I've heard some bizarre accusations about the effect of Brexit but yours has to be one of the most ridiculous! Are you really serious?!

What on earth are you talking about? Of course I'm serious. Cameron approved the plan and started the whole thing so would have signed the contracts.

If the referendum had been Remain, then Cameron would have still been PM and signed.

What the hell do you think happened with Hinckley Point?

You Brexiters are living in a parallel world I swear.

All that has happened at Hinckley Point is the Government has asked for a final revue which was expected in September but EDF called the numbers earlier. There is not ONE connection between the Brexit vote and this revue. The change of Prime Minister is totally irrelevant.

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By *LCCCouple
over a year ago

Cambridge

[Removed by poster at 20/08/16 13:58:18]

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By *LCCCouple
over a year ago

Cambridge

Re Hinckley Point - I've heard some bizarre accusations about the effect of Brexit but yours has to be one of the most ridiculous! Are you really serious?!

What on earth are you talking about? Of course I'm serious. Cameron approved the plan and started the whole thing so would have signed the contracts.

If the referendum had been Remain, then Cameron would have still been PM and signed.

What the hell do you think happened with Hinckley Point?

You Brexiters are living in a parallel world I swear.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/business/news/brexit-hinkley-point-nuclear-power-station-cancellation-eu-cuts-government-a7106961.html

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3663424/Nuclear-power-station-likely-18billion-casualty-Brexit-vote-says-government-advisor.html

https://www.chathamhouse.org/expert/comment/brexit-and-uks-china-challenge#

"But as the delay in approving the French and Chinese-invested Hinkley Point nuclear plant shows, Theresa May, the new prime minister, may have doubts about some of the deals struck by her predecessor.

Underlying this uncertainty, and brought to the fore by Brexit, are several interrelated strategic challenges facing London in formulating policy towards China."

Again, what you are saying is completely untrue. Here are two papers from the opposite ends of the political spectrum saying the same thing about the impact of Brexit on HP.

Chatham House also saying that the delay has been brought by the new MP and as a result of Brexit.

fortune.com/2016/08/18/uk-economy-brexit-jobless-confidence/

"At the same time, the new government under Theresa May has all but abandoned its plan for balancing the budget, heading off fears that an ideologically driven austerity would compound the effects of Brexit.

What May’s government hasn’t done yet, however, is to send a clear signal on its own willingness to sustain investment through the coming weak patch. Its signals have been decidedly mixed: May slammed the brakes on the massively expensive new, part-Chinese owned Hinkley Point nuclear power station, potentially jeopardizing other inward Chinese investment."

www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/jul/21/brexit-could-force-multibillion-pound-projects-to-be-scrapped-says-nao-chief

"Britain’s most senior auditor gave his alarming verdict on Whitehall’s readiness as the prime minister comes under increasing pressure from European leaders to start talks on the UK’s exit from the EU as soon as possible.

“It’s a tidal wave coming up the beach,” he said. “It is an emergency. If we don’t get it right, it will affect our economy and standards of life in this country. To say we are going to carry on and do everything we did before – I just don’t think that’s going to be sustainable.”"

These are just a handful of stories from a whole flood of them saying the same thing. Are you really saying yet again that the UK media have got it wrong, foreign policy experts have got it wrong, international media have got it wrong, the auditor general of the National Audit Offuce has got it wrong, but that you know what's Really going on? That you are smarter than all of them combinded?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Re Hinckley Point - I've heard some bizarre accusations about the effect of Brexit but yours has to be one of the most ridiculous! Are you really serious?!

What on earth are you talking about? Of course I'm serious. Cameron approved the plan and started the whole thing so would have signed the contracts.

If the referendum had been Remain, then Cameron would have still been PM and signed.

What the hell do you think happened with Hinckley Point?

You Brexiters are living in a parallel world I swear.

You really are clutching at straws now aren't you

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By *LCCCouple
over a year ago

Cambridge

Re Hinckley Point - I've heard some bizarre accusations about the effect of Brexit but yours has to be one of the most ridiculous! Are you really serious?!

What on earth are you talking about? Of course I'm serious. Cameron approved the plan and started the whole thing so would have signed the contracts.

If the referendum had been Remain, then Cameron would have still been PM and signed.

What the hell do you think happened with Hinckley Point?

You Brexiters are living in a parallel world I swear.

You really are clutching at straws now aren't you

Obviously I am. Me, the media, think tanks, the Chinese, the national audit office, all clutching at straws, but You know whats REALLY going on don't you?