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"To be blunt, though many Scott's couldn't care about that word now, or wear it as a mark of pride, the phrase is xenophobic/meant to be culturally derogatory. Therefore the designation of that word is to degrade or isolate an individual as inferior. Simply put, I would still class that word as vile and as malicious as the 'n-word'. I just wouldn't use it without knowing the person I was addressing viewed it as a mark of triumph or could laugh over it. Even then I don't think I could use it. P.s, the majority of people who voted remain accept that the majority of out voters aren't racist/xenophobic - we just acknowledge that there was a small racist/xenophobic element to the campaign, by certain groups and individuals, both public and political. " Have you any sources for your description of the word 'Jock'? This isn't a challenge as I am genuinely and totally gobsmacked by your reaction and would like to know where I have missed it. Would you say then that the Black Watch Regiment are / were being xenophobic and culturally derogatory about themselves and all Scots? Should I be as equally upset when I am called a 'Tommy', 'Limey', 'Sassenach', 'Pom'...? | |||
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"Ah a good old 'intentionalist vrs consequencialist' debate! Right, the 'n word' is different because it isn't just an offensive term, it has serious connetations with slavery which is a whole different degree of bad. So anyone who thinks 'honkey' or 'jock' is on that level needs their privilege checked! I've been alive 30 years and managed to never hear the term jock used in any other context than an American slang for dumb athletes. " A jock is a dumb meat head athlete | |||
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" sounds like I've went off track...but I hope you get my thinking" Honestly... not a sausage. What's got to be scientific? | |||
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" sounds like I've went off track...but I hope you get my thinking Honestly... not a sausage. What's got to be scientific? " learning more about the tackling of 'scarcity' in the future, | |||
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" sounds like I've went off track...but I hope you get my thinking Honestly... not a sausage. What's got to be scientific? learning more about the tackling of 'scarcity' in the future," OK and just link that to racism for me? | |||
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"Ah a good old 'intentionalist vrs consequencialist' debate! Right, the 'n word' is different because it isn't just an offensive term, it has serious connetations with slavery which is a whole different degree of bad. So anyone who thinks 'honkey' or 'jock' is on that level needs their privilege checked! I've been alive 30 years and managed to never hear the term jock used in any other context than an American slang for dumb athletes. " I am guessing here but I think it comes from a mainly Military thing that just caught on widely? Like the RAF Regiment are called 'Rock Apes', RAF types generally are 'Crabs', Irish Regiment were 'The Micks', Royal Marines are 'Bootnecks' etc. And all worn with huge pride I might add... | |||
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"Ah a good old 'intentionalist vrs consequencialist' debate! Right, the 'n word' is different because it isn't just an offensive term, it has serious connetations with slavery which is a whole different degree of bad. So anyone who thinks 'honkey' or 'jock' is on that level needs their privilege checked! I've been alive 30 years and managed to never hear the term jock used in any other context than an American slang for dumb athletes. I am guessing here but I think it comes from a mainly Military thing that just caught on widely? Like the RAF Regiment are called 'Rock Apes', RAF types generally are 'Crabs', Irish Regiment were 'The Micks', Royal Marines are 'Bootnecks' etc. And all worn with huge pride I might add..." I've lived in Scotland, never heard the term there or here. It does feature in the film "American Pie" but it's nothing to do with Scottish people. There are some people that have watched Braveheart one too many times and want to play the victim. As I say, if they think that's on par with what black people went through with slavery then they really need a reality check. | |||
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"Ah a good old 'intentionalist vrs consequencialist' debate! Right, the 'n word' is different because it isn't just an offensive term, it has serious connetations with slavery which is a whole different degree of bad. So anyone who thinks 'honkey' or 'jock' is on that level needs their privilege checked! I've been alive 30 years and managed to never hear the term jock used in any other context than an American slang for dumb athletes. I am guessing here but I think it comes from a mainly Military thing that just caught on widely? Like the RAF Regiment are called 'Rock Apes', RAF types generally are 'Crabs', Irish Regiment were 'The Micks', Royal Marines are 'Bootnecks' etc. And all worn with huge pride I might add... I've lived in Scotland, never heard the term there or here. It does feature in the film "American Pie" but it's nothing to do with Scottish people. There are some people that have watched Braveheart one too many times and want to play the victim. As I say, if they think that's on par with what black people went through with slavery then they really need a reality check. " All people have been enslaved. 40% of lceland's population are direct descendants of Celtic slaves. I'd never be offended by the word 'jock'. It doesn't bother me. | |||
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"Ah a good old 'intentionalist vrs consequencialist' debate! Right, the 'n word' is different because it isn't just an offensive term, it has serious connetations with slavery which is a whole different degree of bad. So anyone who thinks 'honkey' or 'jock' is on that level needs their privilege checked! I've been alive 30 years and managed to never hear the term jock used in any other context than an American slang for dumb athletes. I am guessing here but I think it comes from a mainly Military thing that just caught on widely? Like the RAF Regiment are called 'Rock Apes', RAF types generally are 'Crabs', Irish Regiment were 'The Micks', Royal Marines are 'Bootnecks' etc. And all worn with huge pride I might add..." Not all military nicknames are worn with pride, they were chosen to cause offense after all. Call a RGJ a "falling plate" to his face and you're likely to get a knuckle sandwich for example. | |||
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"There's more than one type of racism. You can be subtly racist, out and out institutionally/systemically racist, there's reverse racism - often from internal racism/colourism. This is from an American perspective but it's straightforward. "Something About The Subject Makes It Hard To Name by Gloria Yamato (1991) She argues that there are five main types of racism, each equally as detrimental as the next: Aware/Blatant Racism: Outright racists that, without apology or confusion, tell people of color, that because of their color, they “don’t appeal to them.” Aware/Covert Racism: When racists are being racist but just not saying it. For instance, upon seeing that a potential tenant is Indian, rather than saying it directly, a landlord will pull the apartment “off the market” without providing an explanation. Unaware/Unintentional Racism: “With the best of intentions, the best of educations, and the greatest generosity of heart, whites, operating on the misinformation fed to them from day one, will behave in ways that are racist, will perpetuate racism by being ‘nice’ the way we’re taught to be nice.” Unaware/Self-Righteous Racism: “The ‘good white’ racist attempts to shame Blacks into being blacker, scorns Japanese-Americans who don’t speak Japanese, and knows more about the Chicano/a community than the folks who make up the community.” Internalized Racism: Stereotypes and attitudes of the white hegemonic system are internalized by members of oppressed groups and peoples and taken for truth or inform the ways they think about themselves and others from similar backgrounds or cultures." Then, here in the UK, we have those that will deny colonialism has anything to do with the racism experienced now. Those that will shout out that the MOBOs shouldn't exist, ignoring what it actually is and the reason why it started and accuse us black people that say anything as being racist against white people. If you learn that a word is offensive to some and you choose to continue to use it what does it make you? " I don't have a lot of time for the colonial arguement personally. What colonialism can do is start a system and cycle of events that has a negative trajectory for the welfare of the society (e.g. Spanish rule in Mexico). I'm not denying that such systems are hard to break but countries can and do break them (e.g. Singapore is now richer than us) and ultimately those systems have been carried on by people of the same race, against their own race for a very long time now. I couldn't care less about the MOBOS and pop music in general, but I did see "Black Engineer of the Year" award and frankly it's the most insulting, counter productive award you could invent. The KKK themselves couldn't dream up a better insult to black people!!! | |||
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""I don't have a lot of time for the colonial arguement personally. What colonialism can do is start a system and cycle of events that has a negative trajectory for the welfare of the society (e.g. Spanish rule in Mexico). I'm not denying that such systems are hard to break but countries can and do break them (e.g. Singapore is now richer than us) and ultimately those systems have been carried on by people of the same race, against their own race for a very long time now. I couldn't care less about the MOBOS and pop music in general, but I did see "Black Engineer of the Year" award and frankly it's the most insulting, counter productive award you could invent. The KKK themselves couldn't dream up a better insult to black people!!!"" South Korea too(Japan colonizing them) Taiwan is now good as well. Great cutlery and electronics are made there now. That's why l don't like the colonialism argument to explain why certain races/groups do badly. Askenazi Jews experienced harsh discrimination and they have almost 30% of all Nobel Prizes won in America, despite only being a relatively tiny population. | |||
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""I don't have a lot of time for the colonial arguement personally. What colonialism can do is start a system and cycle of events that has a negative trajectory for the welfare of the society (e.g. Spanish rule in Mexico). I'm not denying that such systems are hard to break but countries can and do break them (e.g. Singapore is now richer than us) and ultimately those systems have been carried on by people of the same race, against their own race for a very long time now. I couldn't care less about the MOBOS and pop music in general, but I did see "Black Engineer of the Year" award and frankly it's the most insulting, counter productive award you could invent. The KKK themselves couldn't dream up a better insult to black people!!!" South Korea too(Japan colonizing them) Taiwan is now good as well. Great cutlery and electronics are made there now. That's why l don't like the colonialism argument to explain why certain races/groups do badly. Askenazi Jews experienced harsh discrimination and they have almost 30% of all Nobel Prizes won in America, despite only being a relatively tiny population." You have to have a systemic approach where people let go of the colonialism. Here, in the UK in 2016, I still hear people talk about how things would be better for many countries if 'we' still ran them. I'm from a former colony, so I accept I may see things differently. | |||
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""I don't have a lot of time for the colonial arguement personally. What colonialism can do is start a system and cycle of events that has a negative trajectory for the welfare of the society (e.g. Spanish rule in Mexico). I'm not denying that such systems are hard to break but countries can and do break them (e.g. Singapore is now richer than us) and ultimately those systems have been carried on by people of the same race, against their own race for a very long time now. I couldn't care less about the MOBOS and pop music in general, but I did see "Black Engineer of the Year" award and frankly it's the most insulting, counter productive award you could invent. The KKK themselves couldn't dream up a better insult to black people!!!" South Korea too(Japan colonizing them) Taiwan is now good as well. Great cutlery and electronics are made there now. That's why l don't like the colonialism argument to explain why certain races/groups do badly. Askenazi Jews experienced harsh discrimination and they have almost 30% of all Nobel Prizes won in America, despite only being a relatively tiny population." In a rather ironic turn of events, historically speaking, Jews in America were largely discriminated against at laws firms and kept out of the prestigious aspects like crinimal law. At best, Jews were allowed to do corporate ligation because the WASPs considered it beneath them as "gentlemen in business do not sue one another". Then the 80's happened, the gloves came off and every company started suing every company just for kicks and the best placed companies to handle to new demand were... Jewish owned ones! Thus many Jewish operated law firms experienced rapid growth as a backlash from their earlier discrimination. I'm not suggesting that justifies the earlier discrimination at all, more a karma argument. But all discrimination in a free market has a cost and under the right circumstances, can be used to turn the tables. | |||
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""I don't have a lot of time for the colonial arguement personally. What colonialism can do is start a system and cycle of events that has a negative trajectory for the welfare of the society (e.g. Spanish rule in Mexico). I'm not denying that such systems are hard to break but countries can and do break them (e.g. Singapore is now richer than us) and ultimately those systems have been carried on by people of the same race, against their own race for a very long time now. I couldn't care less about the MOBOS and pop music in general, but I did see "Black Engineer of the Year" award and frankly it's the most insulting, counter productive award you could invent. The KKK themselves couldn't dream up a better insult to black people!!!" South Korea too(Japan colonizing them) Taiwan is now good as well. Great cutlery and electronics are made there now. That's why l don't like the colonialism argument to explain why certain races/groups do badly. Askenazi Jews experienced harsh discrimination and they have almost 30% of all Nobel Prizes won in America, despite only being a relatively tiny population. You have to have a systemic approach where people let go of the colonialism. Here, in the UK in 2016, I still hear people talk about how things would be better for many countries if 'we' still ran them. I'm from a former colony, so I accept I may see things differently. " Well that's what we call a false dichotomy. Colonies are generally run for the benefit of the mother country and rarely the benefit of the local population. So they generally wouldn't be better off ad colonies. But equally lots of former countries have bloody awful leaders too (e.g. South Africa, Mexico, North Korea). So those countries would be better off (in theory) if our liberal democracy ran them, but it's a logical fallacy because the British government wouldn't run a foreign country for any other benefit that it's own. Hence why Iraq somehow became even worse under occupation than it was when it was ruled by one of the most disgusting leaders in modern history. | |||
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"To be called a racist when you honestly feel you are not in any way racist let alone would never post racist statements is a very hurtful and personal thing to endure. But on the other hand someone can call a comment 'racist' and the person posting that comment is apparently damned regardless. I am not getting into a 'Brexit' thing where where everyone who voted 'Leave' had to be a racist and apparently there are now 17.4 million racists in the UK but that is an example of the context of where the 'racist card' SEEMS to be too readily played. The real context for this Thread can be found at the end of 'the Single Market' thread (which got too big) where apparently using the term 'Jock' is now as racially abusive to Scottish people as the word 'nigger' is to people of colour. I am really deeply shocked that an expression I have used for some 50 years including with and by members of my family, is now racially unacceptable. Of course no offence was meant (as the discussion was about economic failure) but I am more than happy to apologise if any language is no longer acceptable. But after the exchange I checked with a mate and he confirmed that one of the oldest Scottish Regiments in the British Army (The Black Watch) called themselves 'The Jocks'. Others called them 'The Black Jocks'. A book in 2012 about their exploits in India in WWII was called: " Jocks in the Jungle: The Black Watch and Cameronians as Chindits". So it is a widely used and accepted term. And to clarify a small matter from that Thread I was accused of deliberately excluding a story about a pilot who sued BA for racial abuse after being called a 'Jock'. His case was dismissed in 2010 so I saw no point in reporting it. So that is the context and my question is this: "If no racial offence is meant by the use of a widely known and used term should people take offence and then retaliate with extreme accusations of racism or just quietly make it known that language has moved on. If indeed it has?" The discussion is about has language changed so much and if so how should people handle that change?" Some people are just too easily offended or maybe tbey want to be offended in order to gain sympathy . I have been referred to as a Paddy and it does not bother me in the sligbtest . Would a successfull go getter be concerned about what people call them. Probably not as they are busy achieving things in life and would have little time to be in the slighest concerned about so called racist remarks . The race relations industry keeps lots of people in jobs now and is all paid for by you tbe tax payer . | |||
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"The Majority of Scots do not like or accept this word, the OP knows this well and has started a thread just to continue to stir things up." Do they? I have been knocking round this planet for a bit longer than you and I have NEVER found any Scot who has taken offence until you raised it. And no I haven't. I am asking a general question as it has actually quite shocked me. Someone of a cynical nature could suggest you are projecting an 'offence' where none is intended to cause an argument. " Again OP, feel free to walk into any pub in Glasgow, Fife or Perthshire and call anyone you don't know "a jock", would be interesting to see if you walk back out." As I said before: been there and done it and had some good natured banter in return .. and I kept all my teeth as it happens  Which is actually why I am raising the subject.
" You clearly are being racist and you know it, you are just trying to be smart and think you can justify your actions, this simply lowers the tone and is not called for." I am clearly NOT trying to be in any way racist and that is what I know. And with respect your use of excessive language could make YOU the racist by seeing a racial slur where there is none simply because it is coming from an Englishman. I said 'could' .. I didn't say you'were'... Had I added an adjective like 'stupid' to the noun 'Jock' then that would have been insulting. And still not 'racist' IMHO but I didn't do that did I? " Again, is it really necessary to have vile racist comments, please try to argue without insulting the people of Scotland, it just shows your incompetence in raising an argument by throwing racist insults and is simply not required. Many Scots deem this extremely racist including myself Please stop as there is no need for these disgusting comments and name calling." Your descriptors are way over the top and uncalled for. What is 'vile' about saying: "You Jocks make me smile ..." No one is insulting the people of Scotland and I am now pretty sure you are just winding up the argument. "And OP please be very cautious about what you say regarding the Black Watch, I lost my brother in the black watch kia, " I am always careful and respectful about ALL military. Some of us have served. So of course deep respects to your brother and for your loss. It places all discussion here somewhat in perspective but some things need saying. The term 'Black Watch' is actually a nickname as is 'Forty-Twa' as is 'Black Jocks' for what was the 42nd regiment of Foot. All were / are used by those in the Royal Regiment of Scotland. Not sure anyone revolted against the self proclaimed nicknames. And you aren't the only one with friends in the military or suffered loss in action or to Service. And as you were THAT close to the military you must surely know there is no insult or racism meant ... | |||
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"this is clearly just another ambush to troll people by stirring up division... but saying that, seeing as how you asked .... where you "missed it" is that you draw too much on your military experience and believe the toxic words used as banter by grunts are acceptable to use in wider society .... newsflash .... they ain't acceptable so if you don't want to run the risk of looking like a complete cunt don't use them ... simple" Thank you for your offensive language ... See how that feels? | |||
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""I don't have a lot of time for the colonial arguement personally. What colonialism can do is start a system and cycle of events that has a negative trajectory for the welfare of the society (e.g. Spanish rule in Mexico). I'm not denying that such systems are hard to break but countries can and do break them (e.g. Singapore is now richer than us) and ultimately those systems have been carried on by people of the same race, against their own race for a very long time now. I couldn't care less about the MOBOS and pop music in general, but I did see "Black Engineer of the Year" award and frankly it's the most insulting, counter productive award you could invent. The KKK themselves couldn't dream up a better insult to black people!!!" South Korea too(Japan colonizing them) Taiwan is now good as well. Great cutlery and electronics are made there now. That's why l don't like the colonialism argument to explain why certain races/groups do badly. Askenazi Jews experienced harsh discrimination and they have almost 30% of all Nobel Prizes won in America, despite only being a relatively tiny population. You have to have a systemic approach where people let go of the colonialism. Here, in the UK in 2016, I still hear people talk about how things would be better for many countries if 'we' still ran them. I'm from a former colony, so I accept I may see things differently. Well that's what we call a false dichotomy. Colonies are generally run for the benefit of the mother country and rarely the benefit of the local population. So they generally wouldn't be better off ad colonies. But equally lots of former countries have bloody awful leaders too (e.g. South Africa, Mexico, North Korea). So those countries would be better off (in theory) if our liberal democracy ran them, but it's a logical fallacy because the British government wouldn't run a foreign country for any other benefit that it's own. Hence why Iraq somehow became even worse under occupation than it was when it was ruled by one of the most disgusting leaders in modern history. " l'm not sure why the Askenazi did so well. My Ashkenazi family were not different to my Scots family. There are a few good countries in SAmerica. Uruguay seem like a cool place. Argentina too. Big wine production now and great beef apparently. Like to visit one day. | |||
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""I don't have a lot of time for the colonial arguement personally. What colonialism can do is start a system and cycle of events that has a negative trajectory for the welfare of the society (e.g. Spanish rule in Mexico). I'm not denying that such systems are hard to break but countries can and do break them (e.g. Singapore is now richer than us) and ultimately those systems have been carried on by people of the same race, against their own race for a very long time now. I couldn't care less about the MOBOS and pop music in general, but I did see "Black Engineer of the Year" award and frankly it's the most insulting, counter productive award you could invent. The KKK themselves couldn't dream up a better insult to black people!!!" South Korea too(Japan colonizing them) Taiwan is now good as well. Great cutlery and electronics are made there now. That's why l don't like the colonialism argument to explain why certain races/groups do badly. Askenazi Jews experienced harsh discrimination and they have almost 30% of all Nobel Prizes won in America, despite only being a relatively tiny population. You have to have a systemic approach where people let go of the colonialism. Here, in the UK in 2016, I still hear people talk about how things would be better for many countries if 'we' still ran them. I'm from a former colony, so I accept I may see things differently. Well that's what we call a false dichotomy. Colonies are generally run for the benefit of the mother country and rarely the benefit of the local population. So they generally wouldn't be better off ad colonies. But equally lots of former countries have bloody awful leaders too (e.g. South Africa, Mexico, North Korea). So those countries would be better off (in theory) if our liberal democracy ran them, but it's a logical fallacy because the British government wouldn't run a foreign country for any other benefit that it's own. Hence why Iraq somehow became even worse under occupation than it was when it was ruled by one of the most disgusting leaders in modern history. l'm not sure why the Askenazi did so well. My Ashkenazi family were not different to my Scots family. There are a few good countries in SAmerica. Uruguay seem like a cool place. Argentina too. Big wine production now and great beef apparently. Like to visit one day." Not to sound disagreeable but Argentina is a textbook case of degeneration and kleptocracy. In 1914 Argentina had more GDP per head that France or Germany and was in the Top 10 richest countries in the world. Now it's poorer than Poland (per head) and roughly on par with Romania. | |||
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""I don't have a lot of time for the colonial arguement personally. What colonialism can do is start a system and cycle of events that has a negative trajectory for the welfare of the society (e.g. Spanish rule in Mexico). I'm not denying that such systems are hard to break but countries can and do break them (e.g. Singapore is now richer than us) and ultimately those systems have been carried on by people of the same race, against their own race for a very long time now. I couldn't care less about the MOBOS and pop music in general, but I did see "Black Engineer of the Year" award and frankly it's the most insulting, counter productive award you could invent. The KKK themselves couldn't dream up a better insult to black people!!!" South Korea too(Japan colonizing them) Taiwan is now good as well. Great cutlery and electronics are made there now. That's why l don't like the colonialism argument to explain why certain races/groups do badly. Askenazi Jews experienced harsh discrimination and they have almost 30% of all Nobel Prizes won in America, despite only being a relatively tiny population. You have to have a systemic approach where people let go of the colonialism. Here, in the UK in 2016, I still hear people talk about how things would be better for many countries if 'we' still ran them. I'm from a former colony, so I accept I may see things differently. Well that's what we call a false dichotomy. Colonies are generally run for the benefit of the mother country and rarely the benefit of the local population. So they generally wouldn't be better off ad colonies. But equally lots of former countries have bloody awful leaders too (e.g. South Africa, Mexico, North Korea). So those countries would be better off (in theory) if our liberal democracy ran them, but it's a logical fallacy because the British government wouldn't run a foreign country for any other benefit that it's own. Hence why Iraq somehow became even worse under occupation than it was when it was ruled by one of the most disgusting leaders in modern history. l'm not sure why the Askenazi did so well. My Ashkenazi family were not different to my Scots family. There are a few good countries in SAmerica. Uruguay seem like a cool place. Argentina too. Big wine production now and great beef apparently. Like to visit one day. Not to sound disagreeable but Argentina is a textbook case of degeneration and kleptocracy. In 1914 Argentina had more GDP per head that France or Germany and was in the Top 10 richest countries in the world. Now it's poorer than Poland (per head) and roughly on par with Romania. " The average salary is still high than most nations in SA. lt just highlights how bad that continent is. l do want to visit lsrael though. | |||
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""I don't have a lot of time for the colonial arguement personally. What colonialism can do is start a system and cycle of events that has a negative trajectory for the welfare of the society (e.g. Spanish rule in Mexico). I'm not denying that such systems are hard to break but countries can and do break them (e.g. Singapore is now richer than us) and ultimately those systems have been carried on by people of the same race, against their own race for a very long time now. I couldn't care less about the MOBOS and pop music in general, but I did see "Black Engineer of the Year" award and frankly it's the most insulting, counter productive award you could invent. The KKK themselves couldn't dream up a better insult to black people!!!" South Korea too(Japan colonizing them) Taiwan is now good as well. Great cutlery and electronics are made there now. That's why l don't like the colonialism argument to explain why certain races/groups do badly. Askenazi Jews experienced harsh discrimination and they have almost 30% of all Nobel Prizes won in America, despite only being a relatively tiny population. You have to have a systemic approach where people let go of the colonialism. Here, in the UK in 2016, I still hear people talk about how things would be better for many countries if 'we' still ran them. I'm from a former colony, so I accept I may see things differently. " The worrying thing is even our Foreign Secretary is on record as saying such things!  | |||
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""I don't have a lot of time for the colonial arguement personally. What colonialism can do is start a system and cycle of events that has a negative trajectory for the welfare of the society (e.g. Spanish rule in Mexico). I'm not denying that such systems are hard to break but countries can and do break them (e.g. Singapore is now richer than us) and ultimately those systems have been carried on by people of the same race, against their own race for a very long time now. I couldn't care less about the MOBOS and pop music in general, but I did see "Black Engineer of the Year" award and frankly it's the most insulting, counter productive award you could invent. The KKK themselves couldn't dream up a better insult to black people!!!" South Korea too(Japan colonizing them) Taiwan is now good as well. Great cutlery and electronics are made there now. That's why l don't like the colonialism argument to explain why certain races/groups do badly. Askenazi Jews experienced harsh discrimination and they have almost 30% of all Nobel Prizes won in America, despite only being a relatively tiny population. You have to have a systemic approach where people let go of the colonialism. Here, in the UK in 2016, I still hear people talk about how things would be better for many countries if 'we' still ran them. I'm from a former colony, so I accept I may see things differently. Well that's what we call a false dichotomy. Colonies are generally run for the benefit of the mother country and rarely the benefit of the local population. So they generally wouldn't be better off ad colonies. But equally lots of former countries have bloody awful leaders too (e.g. South Africa, Mexico, North Korea). So those countries would be better off (in theory) if our liberal democracy ran them, but it's a logical fallacy because the British government wouldn't run a foreign country for any other benefit that it's own. Hence why Iraq somehow became even worse under occupation than it was when it was ruled by one of the most disgusting leaders in modern history. l'm not sure why the Askenazi did so well. My Ashkenazi family were not different to my Scots family. There are a few good countries in SAmerica. Uruguay seem like a cool place. Argentina too. Big wine production now and great beef apparently. Like to visit one day. Not to sound disagreeable but Argentina is a textbook case of degeneration and kleptocracy. In 1914 Argentina had more GDP per head that France or Germany and was in the Top 10 richest countries in the world. Now it's poorer than Poland (per head) and roughly on par with Romania. " . You'd think these folk had never seen a musical...Don't cry for me Argentina  | |||
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""I don't have a lot of time for the colonial arguement personally. What colonialism can do is start a system and cycle of events that has a negative trajectory for the welfare of the society (e.g. Spanish rule in Mexico). I'm not denying that such systems are hard to break but countries can and do break them (e.g. Singapore is now richer than us) and ultimately those systems have been carried on by people of the same race, against their own race for a very long time now. I couldn't care less about the MOBOS and pop music in general, but I did see "Black Engineer of the Year" award and frankly it's the most insulting, counter productive award you could invent. The KKK themselves couldn't dream up a better insult to black people!!!" South Korea too(Japan colonizing them) Taiwan is now good as well. Great cutlery and electronics are made there now. That's why l don't like the colonialism argument to explain why certain races/groups do badly. Askenazi Jews experienced harsh discrimination and they have almost 30% of all Nobel Prizes won in America, despite only being a relatively tiny population. You have to have a systemic approach where people let go of the colonialism. Here, in the UK in 2016, I still hear people talk about how things would be better for many countries if 'we' still ran them. I'm from a former colony, so I accept I may see things differently. The worrying thing is even our Foreign Secretary is on record as saying such things! ". Well sometimes it's true!. Guyana, Suriname and French Guiana... Which ones done best? | |||
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""I don't have a lot of time for the colonial arguement personally. What colonialism can do is start a system and cycle of events that has a negative trajectory for the welfare of the society (e.g. Spanish rule in Mexico). I'm not denying that such systems are hard to break but countries can and do break them (e.g. Singapore is now richer than us) and ultimately those systems have been carried on by people of the same race, against their own race for a very long time now. I couldn't care less about the MOBOS and pop music in general, but I did see "Black Engineer of the Year" award and frankly it's the most insulting, counter productive award you could invent. The KKK themselves couldn't dream up a better insult to black people!!!" South Korea too(Japan colonizing them) Taiwan is now good as well. Great cutlery and electronics are made there now. That's why l don't like the colonialism argument to explain why certain races/groups do badly. Askenazi Jews experienced harsh discrimination and they have almost 30% of all Nobel Prizes won in America, despite only being a relatively tiny population. You have to have a systemic approach where people let go of the colonialism. Here, in the UK in 2016, I still hear people talk about how things would be better for many countries if 'we' still ran them. I'm from a former colony, so I accept I may see things differently. The worrying thing is even our Foreign Secretary is on record as saying such things! .
Well sometimes it's true!.
Guyana, Suriname and French Guiana...
Which ones done best?"So you think they have lost their right to self determination? | |||
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""I don't have a lot of time for the colonial arguement personally. What colonialism can do is start a system and cycle of events that has a negative trajectory for the welfare of the society (e.g. Spanish rule in Mexico). I'm not denying that such systems are hard to break but countries can and do break them (e.g. Singapore is now richer than us) and ultimately those systems have been carried on by people of the same race, against their own race for a very long time now. I couldn't care less about the MOBOS and pop music in general, but I did see "Black Engineer of the Year" award and frankly it's the most insulting, counter productive award you could invent. The KKK themselves couldn't dream up a better insult to black people!!!" South Korea too(Japan colonizing them) Taiwan is now good as well. Great cutlery and electronics are made there now. That's why l don't like the colonialism argument to explain why certain races/groups do badly. Askenazi Jews experienced harsh discrimination and they have almost 30% of all Nobel Prizes won in America, despite only being a relatively tiny population. You have to have a systemic approach where people let go of the colonialism. Here, in the UK in 2016, I still hear people talk about how things would be better for many countries if 'we' still ran them. I'm from a former colony, so I accept I may see things differently. The worrying thing is even our Foreign Secretary is on record as saying such things! .
Well sometimes it's true!.
Guyana, Suriname and French Guiana...
Which ones done best?
So you think they have lost their right to self determination? ". No. I think they've done better without having self determination | |||
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""I don't have a lot of time for the colonial arguement personally. What colonialism can do is start a system and cycle of events that has a negative trajectory for the welfare of the society (e.g. Spanish rule in Mexico). I'm not denying that such systems are hard to break but countries can and do break them (e.g. Singapore is now richer than us) and ultimately those systems have been carried on by people of the same race, against their own race for a very long time now. I couldn't care less about the MOBOS and pop music in general, but I did see "Black Engineer of the Year" award and frankly it's the most insulting, counter productive award you could invent. The KKK themselves couldn't dream up a better insult to black people!!!" South Korea too(Japan colonizing them) Taiwan is now good as well. Great cutlery and electronics are made there now. That's why l don't like the colonialism argument to explain why certain races/groups do badly. Askenazi Jews experienced harsh discrimination and they have almost 30% of all Nobel Prizes won in America, despite only being a relatively tiny population. You have to have a systemic approach where people let go of the colonialism. Here, in the UK in 2016, I still hear people talk about how things would be better for many countries if 'we' still ran them. I'm from a former colony, so I accept I may see things differently. The worrying thing is even our Foreign Secretary is on record as saying such things! .
Well sometimes it's true!.
Guyana, Suriname and French Guiana...
Which ones done best?
So you think they have lost their right to self determination? "Self determination is a principle that all countries want, it't not the most pragmatic thing though. lt just depends whether you value principle or results more. Not an easy problem. | |||
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" So you think they have lost their right to self determination? " Objection your honour - leading question. I enter into evidence Thucydide's 'Melian Dialogue' and assert that no country has any inherent rights in an anarchic international system. Objection sustained. | |||
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""new" countries don't tend to do well from the get go, usually it takes them about 200 years to get their shit together.... Canada or USA?... Who had the easier ride from self determination " Objection your honor - South Korea, Singapore, Saudi Arabia, Australia | |||
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""new" countries don't tend to do well from the get go, usually it takes them about 200 years to get their shit together.... Canada or USA?... Who had the easier ride from self determination Objection your honor - South Korea, Singapore, Saudi Arabia, Australia" . Australia has always had the commonwealth as a stabilising influence just like Canada had and new Zealand.... don't get me wrong I don't think the commonwealth helped with Zimbabwes case because in reality "we" should have been much tougher on Mugabe's regime and then maybe there'd have been better off | |||
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""new" countries don't tend to do well from the get go, usually it takes them about 200 years to get their shit together.... Canada or USA?... Who had the easier ride from self determination Objection your honor - South Korea, Singapore, Saudi Arabia, Australia. Australia has always had the commonwealth as a stabilising influence just like Canada had and new Zealand.... don't get me wrong I don't think the commonwealth helped with Zimbabwes case because in reality "we" should have been much tougher on Mugabe's regime and then maybe there'd have been better off" I'm just looking for a 'sustained' or 'over ruled' please | |||
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"Andi hate to point this out but Saudi Arabia is full of fucking slums, a very large percentage of its country folk are both poor and very lacking in education.... Hence why they need so many "foreigners"" It's GDP per head is higher than ours! Not bad for a country than was sand and tents 60 years ago. | |||
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""new" countries don't tend to do well from the get go, usually it takes them about 200 years to get their shit together.... Canada or USA?... Who had the easier ride from self determination Objection your honor - South Korea, Singapore, Saudi Arabia, Australia" Reject Saudi Arabia. They are only rich because they happen to sit on oil. Any economy that relies so heavily on on thing (isn't it like 70% of GDP?) is unstable. When oil prices fell it shocked their economy. Singapore isn't as applicable imo because it's a city state. l don't know if their tax laws would work on a larger scale. l think it's like a Frankfurt on water or a London on water. SK is a good shout and Australia was so ethnically and culturally British that it was easier for them imo. lsrael is the best example. lt's taken then 60 years to be more advanced than the surrounding nations managed in millenia. lt's actually a good case for the argument of the superiority of Western/progressive management. | |||
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""new" countries don't tend to do well from the get go, usually it takes them about 200 years to get their shit together.... Canada or USA?... Who had the easier ride from self determination Objection your honor - South Korea, Singapore, Saudi Arabia, Australia. Australia has always had the commonwealth as a stabilising influence just like Canada had and new Zealand.... don't get me wrong I don't think the commonwealth helped with Zimbabwes case because in reality "we" should have been much tougher on Mugabe's regime and then maybe there'd have been better off I'm just looking for a 'sustained' or 'over ruled' please " . The trouble with being white is your a cunt for pointing out where people that aren't white went wrong... So I mainly stick to saying where white Eastern European/Russians went wrong. . . Personally I think most of us are culturalists and not racists | |||
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""new" countries don't tend to do well from the get go, usually it takes them about 200 years to get their shit together.... Canada or USA?... Who had the easier ride from self determination Objection your honor - South Korea, Singapore, Saudi Arabia, Australia Reject Saudi Arabia. They are only rich because they happen to sit on oil. Any economy that relies so heavily on on thing (isn't it like 70% of GDP?) is unstable. " . Saudis second largest export is dates..... And I don't mean internet lady dates | |||
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"Andi hate to point this out but Saudi Arabia is full of fucking slums, a very large percentage of its country folk are both poor and very lacking in education.... Hence why they need so many "foreigners" It's GDP per head is higher than ours! Not bad for a country than was sand and tents 60 years ago. " Take standard deviation into account. Big numbers on paper aren't everything. A handful of Saudi princess are billionaires and the rest are still like the surrounding Arabs. The wealth of the UK is more evenly spread. | |||
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""new" countries don't tend to do well from the get go, usually it takes them about 200 years to get their shit together.... Canada or USA?... Who had the easier ride from self determination Objection your honor - South Korea, Singapore, Saudi Arabia, Australia Reject Saudi Arabia. They are only rich because they happen to sit on oil. Any economy that relies so heavily on on thing (isn't it like 70% of GDP?) is unstable. When oil prices fell it shocked their economy. Singapore isn't as applicable imo because it's a city state. l don't know if their tax laws would work on a larger scale. l think it's like a Frankfurt on water or a London on water. SK is a good shout and Australia was so ethnically and culturally British that it was easier for them imo. lsrael is the best example. lt's taken then 60 years to be more advanced than the surrounding nations managed in millenia. lt's actually a good case for the argument of the superiority of Western/progressive management. " I think Saudi deserves more credit because of its region. Yeah it's no South Korea but it's also not Iraq, Syria, Afghanistan or any of the other hell holes around it. The size of Singapore shouldn't disqualify it, look at Malaysia - why isn't Malaysia as rich as Singapore? Australia had help but they also made smart political decisions and laws in their early days that stopped a tiny elite controlling the wool trade and destroying the general wealth the way Argentina went. Agree with Israel. | |||
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""new" countries don't tend to do well from the get go, usually it takes them about 200 years to get their shit together.... Canada or USA?... Who had the easier ride from self determination Objection your honor - South Korea, Singapore, Saudi Arabia, Australia. Australia has always had the commonwealth as a stabilising influence just like Canada had and new Zealand.... don't get me wrong I don't think the commonwealth helped with Zimbabwes case because in reality "we" should have been much tougher on Mugabe's regime and then maybe there'd have been better off I'm just looking for a 'sustained' or 'over ruled' please . The trouble with being white is your a cunt for pointing out where people that aren't white went wrong... So I mainly stick to saying where white Eastern European/Russians went wrong. . . Personally I think most of us are culturalists and not racists" Yup. Some people think that only doctors that have had cancer can treat it... sigh | |||
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"Andi hate to point this out but Saudi Arabia is full of fucking slums, a very large percentage of its country folk are both poor and very lacking in education.... Hence why they need so many "foreigners" It's GDP per head is higher than ours! Not bad for a country than was sand and tents 60 years ago. " . My father rode a camel, I drive a car, my son fly's a plane, his son will ride a camel!!. That's a quote from the king of Saudi.... That should tell you what he thinks of his gdp | |||
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"Andi hate to point this out but Saudi Arabia is full of fucking slums, a very large percentage of its country folk are both poor and very lacking in education.... Hence why they need so many "foreigners" It's GDP per head is higher than ours! Not bad for a country than was sand and tents 60 years ago. Take standard deviation into account. Big numbers on paper aren't everything. A handful of Saudi princess are billionaires and the rest are still like the surrounding Arabs. The wealth of the UK is more evenly spread." Yeah but look at their next door neighbours | |||
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""new" countries don't tend to do well from the get go, usually it takes them about 200 years to get their shit together.... Canada or USA?... Who had the easier ride from self determination Objection your honor - South Korea, Singapore, Saudi Arabia, Australia Reject Saudi Arabia. They are only rich because they happen to sit on oil. Any economy that relies so heavily on on thing (isn't it like 70% of GDP?) is unstable. When oil prices fell it shocked their economy. Singapore isn't as applicable imo because it's a city state. l don't know if their tax laws would work on a larger scale. l think it's like a Frankfurt on water or a London on water. SK is a good shout and Australia was so ethnically and culturally British that it was easier for them imo. lsrael is the best example. lt's taken then 60 years to be more advanced than the surrounding nations managed in millenia. lt's actually a good case for the argument of the superiority of Western/progressive management. I think Saudi deserves more credit because of its region. Yeah it's no South Korea but it's also not Iraq, Syria, Afghanistan or any of the other hell holes around it. The size of Singapore shouldn't disqualify it, look at Malaysia - why isn't Malaysia as rich as Singapore? Australia had help but they also made smart political decisions and laws in their early days that stopped a tiny elite controlling the wool trade and destroying the general wealth the way Argentina went. Agree with Israel. " Malaysia is another fractured case. ALL the money is held by the Chinese who are now fleeing in vast numbers. The Muslim population don't contribute as much as the Chinese. | |||
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"Andi hate to point this out but Saudi Arabia is full of fucking slums, a very large percentage of its country folk are both poor and very lacking in education.... Hence why they need so many "foreigners" It's GDP per head is higher than ours! Not bad for a country than was sand and tents 60 years ago. Take standard deviation into account. Big numbers on paper aren't everything. A handful of Saudi princess are billionaires and the rest are still like the surrounding Arabs. The wealth of the UK is more evenly spread. Yeah but look at their next door neighbours" lt won't last. What do they have other than oil? There is no world class university in the Muslim world. They don't have the same infrastructure we do nor the cultural freedom that creativity needs. l hope l'm wrong though. the Saudis are a real problem imo. | |||
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"Andi hate to point this out but Saudi Arabia is full of fucking slums, a very large percentage of its country folk are both poor and very lacking in education.... Hence why they need so many "foreigners" It's GDP per head is higher than ours! Not bad for a country than was sand and tents 60 years ago. Take standard deviation into account. Big numbers on paper aren't everything. A handful of Saudi princess are billionaires and the rest are still like the surrounding Arabs. The wealth of the UK is more evenly spread. Yeah but look at their next door neighbours lt won't last. What do they have other than oil? There is no world class university in the Muslim world. They don't have the same infrastructure we do nor the cultural freedom that creativity needs. l hope l'm wrong though. the Saudis are a real problem imo. " Saudi has pumped money into King Abdullah Science and Technology University (KAUST) which is more than you can say for our universities, the results are... inconclusive. Saudi has fuck all of anything except the most valuable thing of all - cold hard cash. The real question is what it does with the cash - squander or invest. There's no inherent reason you can't just have a sovereign wealth fund that pays a dividend to its citizens to sit on their ass all year... | |||
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"Am Scottish, couldn't care less if someone called me a jock it's just a word, besides white people usually don't get all prissy about a word! The only thing that annoys me is when you English when referring to us "SCOTS" you don't say Scots you say the scotch! Apart from that it's fine, a even find it kinda funny when am down England and English can't help but say to me "see you Jimmy" it's hilarious! " See you Jimmy  | |||
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""new" countries don't tend to do well from the get go, usually it takes them about 200 years to get their shit together.... Canada or USA?... Who had the easier ride from self determination Objection your honor - South Korea, Singapore, Saudi Arabia, Australia Reject Saudi Arabia. They are only rich because they happen to sit on oil. Any economy that relies so heavily on on thing (isn't it like 70% of GDP?) is unstable. When oil prices fell it shocked their economy. Singapore isn't as applicable imo because it's a city state. l don't know if their tax laws would work on a larger scale. l think it's like a Frankfurt on water or a London on water. SK is a good shout and Australia was so ethnically and culturally British that it was easier for them imo. lsrael is the best example. lt's taken then 60 years to be more advanced than the surrounding nations managed in millenia. lt's actually a good case for the argument of the superiority of Western/progressive management. I think Saudi deserves more credit because of its region. Yeah it's no South Korea but it's also not Iraq, Syria, Afghanistan or any of the other hell holes around it. The size of Singapore shouldn't disqualify it, look at Malaysia - why isn't Malaysia as rich as Singapore? Australia had help but they also made smart political decisions and laws in their early days that stopped a tiny elite controlling the wool trade and destroying the general wealth the way Argentina went. Agree with Israel. Malaysia is another fractured case. ALL the money is held by the Chinese who are now fleeing in vast numbers. The Muslim population don't contribute as much as the Chinese. " . You see I think colonialism actually gave Malaysia a good foot hold, they have a parliament based on a system that's been through the wringer already, a legal system based on one that's been through the wringer.... Singapore broke away because they didn't want to be ruled by Muslims but to be fair to Malaysia they've stayed fairly secular in the main, again something i think they benefited from colonialism. | |||
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"Andi hate to point this out but Saudi Arabia is full of fucking slums, a very large percentage of its country folk are both poor and very lacking in education.... Hence why they need so many "foreigners" It's GDP per head is higher than ours! Not bad for a country than was sand and tents 60 years ago. Take standard deviation into account. Big numbers on paper aren't everything. A handful of Saudi princess are billionaires and the rest are still like the surrounding Arabs. The wealth of the UK is more evenly spread. Yeah but look at their next door neighbours lt won't last. What do they have other than oil? There is no world class university in the Muslim world. They don't have the same infrastructure we do nor the cultural freedom that creativity needs. l hope l'm wrong though. the Saudis are a real problem imo. Saudi has pumped money into King Abdullah Science and Technology University (KAUST) which is more than you can say for our universities, the results are... inconclusive. Saudi has fuck all of anything except the most valuable thing of all - cold hard cash. The real question is what it does with the cash - squander or invest. There's no inherent reason you can't just have a sovereign wealth fund that pays a dividend to its citizens to sit on their ass all year... " Very good point. This is similar to how Scotland and Norway have dealt with our oil... l haven't looked it up, if the have a fund then they have a slim chance, though l doubt it. When oil becomes a less valuable resource, the in fighting will start and up to 75% of their economy can devalue in one single day. l'm not sure how the Saudis work it and sell their oil. 60 years is not enough to go from tent dwelling to world power. The beauty of democracy is that no one person has too much power. individuals fail but the show goes on. Our universities are more able to perform as independent self sustaining businesses - for lack of a better term. The likes of Oxford and Cambridge (And the others we have in the top 100) are magnets for rich foreigners that will happily pay through the nose and happily teach there, for the prestige and the quality. ''There's no inherent reason you can't just have a sovereign wealth fund that pays a dividend to its citizens to sit on their ass all year...'' ...this can go deeper. This challenges the very concept of value and capitalism. Just pumping oil money into a place is far too volatile imo. Time will tell. Nice conversation with you guys. | |||
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""I don't have a lot of time for the colonial arguement personally. What colonialism can do is start a system and cycle of events that has a negative trajectory for the welfare of the society (e.g. Spanish rule in Mexico). I'm not denying that such systems are hard to break but countries can and do break them (e.g. Singapore is now richer than us) and ultimately those systems have been carried on by people of the same race, against their own race for a very long time now. I couldn't care less about the MOBOS and pop music in general, but I did see "Black Engineer of the Year" award and frankly it's the most insulting, counter productive award you could invent. The KKK themselves couldn't dream up a better insult to black people!!!" South Korea too(Japan colonizing them) Taiwan is now good as well. Great cutlery and electronics are made there now. That's why l don't like the colonialism argument to explain why certain races/groups do badly. Askenazi Jews experienced harsh discrimination and they have almost 30% of all Nobel Prizes won in America, despite only being a relatively tiny population. You have to have a systemic approach where people let go of the colonialism. Here, in the UK in 2016, I still hear people talk about how things would be better for many countries if 'we' still ran them. I'm from a former colony, so I accept I may see things differently. The worrying thing is even our Foreign Secretary is on record as saying such things! .
Well sometimes it's true!.
Guyana, Suriname and French Guiana...
Which ones done best?"The issue with Guyana was a direct result of colonialism and pleasing the Americans. The plans set out for independence and the first votes were changed at the last minute at the behest of the Americans who were worried that they might have a Communist elected so close to their borders. | |||
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""I don't have a lot of time for the colonial arguement personally. What colonialism can do is start a system and cycle of events that has a negative trajectory for the welfare of the society (e.g. Spanish rule in Mexico). I'm not denying that such systems are hard to break but countries can and do break them (e.g. Singapore is now richer than us) and ultimately those systems have been carried on by people of the same race, against their own race for a very long time now. I couldn't care less about the MOBOS and pop music in general, but I did see "Black Engineer of the Year" award and frankly it's the most insulting, counter productive award you could invent. The KKK themselves couldn't dream up a better insult to black people!!!" South Korea too(Japan colonizing them) Taiwan is now good as well. Great cutlery and electronics are made there now. That's why l don't like the colonialism argument to explain why certain races/groups do badly. Askenazi Jews experienced harsh discrimination and they have almost 30% of all Nobel Prizes won in America, despite only being a relatively tiny population. You have to have a systemic approach where people let go of the colonialism. Here, in the UK in 2016, I still hear people talk about how things would be better for many countries if 'we' still ran them. I'm from a former colony, so I accept I may see things differently. The worrying thing is even our Foreign Secretary is on record as saying such things! .
Well sometimes it's true!.
Guyana, Suriname and French Guiana...
Which ones done best?
The issue with Guyana was a direct result of colonialism and pleasing the Americans. The plans set out for independence and the first votes were changed at the last minute at the behest of the Americans who were worried that they might have a Communist elected so close to their borders.
". Some fantastic Surf locations in Guyana and French Guiana . learn to surf; will change your life and stop your whinging . | |||
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"If you find yourself starting sentences with "I'm not racist but..." that's not a good sign! " what about starting like this: To be called a racist when you honestly feel you are not in any way racist  | |||
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""I don't have a lot of time for the colonial arguement personally. What colonialism can do is start a system and cycle of events that has a negative trajectory for the welfare of the society (e.g. Spanish rule in Mexico). I'm not denying that such systems are hard to break but countries can and do break them (e.g. Singapore is now richer than us) and ultimately those systems have been carried on by people of the same race, against their own race for a very long time now. I couldn't care less about the MOBOS and pop music in general, but I did see "Black Engineer of the Year" award and frankly it's the most insulting, counter productive award you could invent. The KKK themselves couldn't dream up a better insult to black people!!!" South Korea too(Japan colonizing them) Taiwan is now good as well. Great cutlery and electronics are made there now. That's why l don't like the colonialism argument to explain why certain races/groups do badly. Askenazi Jews experienced harsh discrimination and they have almost 30% of all Nobel Prizes won in America, despite only being a relatively tiny population. You have to have a systemic approach where people let go of the colonialism. Here, in the UK in 2016, I still hear people talk about how things would be better for many countries if 'we' still ran them. I'm from a former colony, so I accept I may see things differently. The worrying thing is even our Foreign Secretary is on record as saying such things! .
Well sometimes it's true!.
Guyana, Suriname and French Guiana...
Which ones done best?
The issue with Guyana was a direct result of colonialism and pleasing the Americans. The plans set out for independence and the first votes were changed at the last minute at the behest of the Americans who were worried that they might have a Communist elected so close to their borders.
.
Some fantastic Surf locations in Guyana and French Guiana
.
learn to surf; will change your life and stop your whinging
." 
Your rudeness is astounding.
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"If you find yourself starting sentences with "I'm not racist but..." that's not a good sign! what about starting like this: To be called a racist when you honestly feel you are not in any way racist "I feel I am a gorgeous 5'10" model but I'm not. Even if YOU don't feel racist but you ACT it and your core beliefs are racist then you're racist. We are all a little bit racist. I choose to acknowledge mine and behave in ways to mitigate that and avoid offending others. I choose to act graciously to the unintentional but well meaning people who make racists comments to me every week. It seems you choose to believe you are so evolved that your comments, no matter how rude and offensive, put your beliefs about yourself being a true egalitarian with no racism in a position to say whatever you like. | |||
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"If you find yourself starting sentences with "I'm not racist but..." that's not a good sign! what about starting like this: To be called a racist when you honestly feel you are not in any way racist
I feel I am a gorgeous 5'10" model but I'm not.
Even if YOU don't feel racist but you ACT it and your core beliefs are racist then you're racist.
We are all a little bit racist. I choose to acknowledge mine and behave in ways to mitigate that and avoid offending others. I choose to act graciously to the unintentional but well meaning people who make racists comments to me every week.
It seems you choose to believe you are so evolved that your comments, no matter how rude and offensive, put your beliefs about yourself being a true egalitarian with no racism in a position to say whatever you like.
"I'm definately racist. It just happens that I hate the people that are the same race as me. | |||
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"If you find yourself starting sentences with "I'm not racist but..." that's not a good sign! what about starting like this: To be called a racist when you honestly feel you are not in any way racist
I feel I am a gorgeous 5'10" model but I'm not.
Even if YOU don't feel racist but you ACT it and your core beliefs are racist then you're racist.
We are all a little bit racist. I choose to acknowledge mine and behave in ways to mitigate that and avoid offending others. I choose to act graciously to the unintentional but well meaning people who make racists comments to me every week.
It seems you choose to believe you are so evolved that your comments, no matter how rude and offensive, put your beliefs about yourself being a true egalitarian with no racism in a position to say whatever you like.
"Also, if multiple people are telling you that you are racist, it might be time to have a think about it. | |||
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"If you find yourself starting sentences with "I'm not racist but..." that's not a good sign! what about starting like this: To be called a racist when you honestly feel you are not in any way racist
I feel I am a gorgeous 5'10" model but I'm not.
Even if YOU don't feel racist but you ACT it and your core beliefs are racist then you're racist.
We are all a little bit racist. I choose to acknowledge mine and behave in ways to mitigate that and avoid offending others. I choose to act graciously to the unintentional but well meaning people who make racists comments to me every week.
It seems you choose to believe you are so evolved that your comments, no matter how rude and offensive, put your beliefs about yourself being a true egalitarian with no racism in a position to say whatever you like.
Also, if multiple people are telling you that you are racist, it might be time to have a think about it. "Im not racist, I hate everyone on an equal par  | |||
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""I don't have a lot of time for the colonial arguement personally. What colonialism can do is start a system and cycle of events that has a negative trajectory for the welfare of the society (e.g. Spanish rule in Mexico). I'm not denying that such systems are hard to break but countries can and do break them (e.g. Singapore is now richer than us) and ultimately those systems have been carried on by people of the same race, against their own race for a very long time now. I couldn't care less about the MOBOS and pop music in general, but I did see "Black Engineer of the Year" award and frankly it's the most insulting, counter productive award you could invent. The KKK themselves couldn't dream up a better insult to black people!!!" South Korea too(Japan colonizing them) Taiwan is now good as well. Great cutlery and electronics are made there now. That's why l don't like the colonialism argument to explain why certain races/groups do badly. Askenazi Jews experienced harsh discrimination and they have almost 30% of all Nobel Prizes won in America, despite only being a relatively tiny population. You have to have a systemic approach where people let go of the colonialism. Here, in the UK in 2016, I still hear people talk about how things would be better for many countries if 'we' still ran them. I'm from a former colony, so I accept I may see things differently. The worrying thing is even our Foreign Secretary is on record as saying such things! .
Well sometimes it's true!.
Guyana, Suriname and French Guiana...
Which ones done best?
The issue with Guyana was a direct result of colonialism and pleasing the Americans. The plans set out for independence and the first votes were changed at the last minute at the behest of the Americans who were worried that they might have a Communist elected so close to their borders.
.
Some fantastic Surf locations in Guyana and French Guiana
.
learn to surf; will change your life and stop your whinging
.
Your rudeness is astounding.
"why is the above quote rude everyone who surf's states it changes their life for the better, including myself Why not try it, lose yourself in the moment | |||
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""I don't have a lot of time for the colonial arguement personally. What colonialism can do is start a system and cycle of events that has a negative trajectory for the welfare of the society (e.g. Spanish rule in Mexico). I'm not denying that such systems are hard to break but countries can and do break them (e.g. Singapore is now richer than us) and ultimately those systems have been carried on by people of the same race, against their own race for a very long time now. I couldn't care less about the MOBOS and pop music in general, but I did see "Black Engineer of the Year" award and frankly it's the most insulting, counter productive award you could invent. The KKK themselves couldn't dream up a better insult to black people!!!" South Korea too(Japan colonizing them) Taiwan is now good as well. Great cutlery and electronics are made there now. That's why l don't like the colonialism argument to explain why certain races/groups do badly. Askenazi Jews experienced harsh discrimination and they have almost 30% of all Nobel Prizes won in America, despite only being a relatively tiny population. You have to have a systemic approach where people let go of the colonialism. Here, in the UK in 2016, I still hear people talk about how things would be better for many countries if 'we' still ran them. I'm from a former colony, so I accept I may see things differently. The worrying thing is even our Foreign Secretary is on record as saying such things! .
Well sometimes it's true!.
Guyana, Suriname and French Guiana...
Which ones done best?
The issue with Guyana was a direct result of colonialism and pleasing the Americans. The plans set out for independence and the first votes were changed at the last minute at the behest of the Americans who were worried that they might have a Communist elected so close to their borders.
.
Some fantastic Surf locations in Guyana and French Guiana
.
learn to surf; will change your life and stop your whinging
.
Your rudeness is astounding.
why is the above quote rude
everyone who surf's states it changes their life for the better, including myself
Why not try it, lose yourself in the moment"Stop my whinging, on a thread about racism, where I am giving my views on racism and where I have made it clear I experience racism regularly? Work it out. I've tried surfing. | |||
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""I don't have a lot of time for the colonial arguement personally. What colonialism can do is start a system and cycle of events that has a negative trajectory for the welfare of the society (e.g. Spanish rule in Mexico). I'm not denying that such systems are hard to break but countries can and do break them (e.g. Singapore is now richer than us) and ultimately those systems have been carried on by people of the same race, against their own race for a very long time now. I couldn't care less about the MOBOS and pop music in general, but I did see "Black Engineer of the Year" award and frankly it's the most insulting, counter productive award you could invent. The KKK themselves couldn't dream up a better insult to black people!!!" South Korea too(Japan colonizing them) Taiwan is now good as well. Great cutlery and electronics are made there now. That's why l don't like the colonialism argument to explain why certain races/groups do badly. Askenazi Jews experienced harsh discrimination and they have almost 30% of all Nobel Prizes won in America, despite only being a relatively tiny population. You have to have a systemic approach where people let go of the colonialism. Here, in the UK in 2016, I still hear people talk about how things would be better for many countries if 'we' still ran them. I'm from a former colony, so I accept I may see things differently. The worrying thing is even our Foreign Secretary is on record as saying such things! .
Well sometimes it's true!.
Guyana, Suriname and French Guiana...
Which ones done best?
The issue with Guyana was a direct result of colonialism and pleasing the Americans. The plans set out for independence and the first votes were changed at the last minute at the behest of the Americans who were worried that they might have a Communist elected so close to their borders.
.
Some fantastic Surf locations in Guyana and French Guiana
.
learn to surf; will change your life and stop your whinging
.
Your rudeness is astounding.
why is the above quote rude
everyone who surf's states it changes their life for the better, including myself
Why not try it, lose yourself in the moment
Stop my whinging, on a thread about racism, where I am giving my views on racism and where I have made it clear I experience racism regularly? Work it out.
I've tried surfing."and?? did you enjoy it!!!! I find after a days surfing I am at peace with the world, no job worries, no financial worries, all life is good, the only trouble is the addiction of "one more wave" | |||
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"If you find yourself starting sentences with "I'm not racist but..." that's not a good sign! what about starting like this: To be called a racist when you honestly feel you are not in any way racist
I feel I am a gorgeous 5'10" model but I'm not.
Even if YOU don't feel racist but you ACT it and your core beliefs are racist then you're racist.
We are all a little bit racist. I choose to acknowledge mine and behave in ways to mitigate that and avoid offending others. I choose to act graciously to the unintentional but well meaning people who make racists comments to me every week.
It seems you choose to believe you are so evolved that your comments, no matter how rude and offensive, put your beliefs about yourself being a true egalitarian with no racism in a position to say whatever you like.
Also, if multiple people are telling you that you are racist, it might be time to have a think about it. "Being British born with 100% Latino roots. I understand the harm of racism and non-racism actions. For example, your teacher laughing at your aspirations in going to uni because you're latino. Luckily I didn't listen and did a post graduate and have a successful career. I try to surround myself with people who are anti-racists. Just saying I'm not racist is not enough. Not even the "I have a friend who's [insert race here]". My friends are the ones who help refugees or visitors integrate, who celebrate other cultures openly. My best friend is the English guy that is more Latino than the Latinos in every salsa party. They are the people who treats everyone as equal. Actions speak louder than words. | |||
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"If you find yourself starting sentences with "I'm not racist but..." that's not a good sign! what about starting like this: To be called a racist when you honestly feel you are not in any way racist
I feel I am a gorgeous 5'10" model but I'm not.
Even if YOU don't feel racist but you ACT it and your core beliefs are racist then you're racist.
We are all a little bit racist. I choose to acknowledge mine and behave in ways to mitigate that and avoid offending others. I choose to act graciously to the unintentional but well meaning people who make racists comments to me every week.
It seems you choose to believe you are so evolved that your comments, no matter how rude and offensive, put your beliefs about yourself being a true egalitarian with no racism in a position to say whatever you like.
I'm definately racist. It just happens that I hate the people that are the same race as me. "What race are you? l've been called racist. l don't mind though. A lot of my family are extremely dark for the Ashkenazim: l'm fair. Water off my back tbh. | |||
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"If you find yourself starting sentences with "I'm not racist but..." that's not a good sign! what about starting like this: To be called a racist when you honestly feel you are not in any way racist
I feel I am a gorgeous 5'10" model but I'm not.
Even if YOU don't feel racist but you ACT it and your core beliefs are racist then you're racist.
We are all a little bit racist. I choose to acknowledge mine and behave in ways to mitigate that and avoid offending others. I choose to act graciously to the unintentional but well meaning people who make racists comments to me every week.
It seems you choose to believe you are so evolved that your comments, no matter how rude and offensive, put your beliefs about yourself being a true egalitarian with no racism in a position to say whatever you like.
Also, if multiple people are telling you that you are racist, it might be time to have a think about it.
Being British born with 100% Latino roots. I understand the harm of racism and non-racism actions. For example, your teacher laughing at your aspirations in going to uni because you're latino. Luckily I didn't listen and did a post graduate and have a successful career.
I try to surround myself with people who are anti-racists. Just saying I'm not racist is not enough. Not even the "I have a friend who's [insert race here]".
My friends are the ones who help refugees or visitors integrate, who celebrate other cultures openly. My best friend is the English guy that is more Latino than the Latinos in every salsa party. They are the people who treats everyone as equal.
Actions speak louder than words."Celebrate other cultures more than ours. l love our culture and think it's the greatest. | |||
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| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"If you find yourself starting sentences with "I'm not racist but..." that's not a good sign! what about starting like this: To be called a racist when you honestly feel you are not in any way racist
I feel I am a gorgeous 5'10" model but I'm not.
Even if YOU don't feel racist but you ACT it and your core beliefs are racist then you're racist.
We are all a little bit racist. I choose to acknowledge mine and behave in ways to mitigate that and avoid offending others. I choose to act graciously to the unintentional but well meaning people who make racists comments to me every week.
It seems you choose to believe you are so evolved that your comments, no matter how rude and offensive, put your beliefs about yourself being a true egalitarian with no racism in a position to say whatever you like.
Also, if multiple people are telling you that you are racist, it might be time to have a think about it.
Being British born with 100% Latino roots. I understand the harm of racism and non-racism actions. For example, your teacher laughing at your aspirations in going to uni because you're latino. Luckily I didn't listen and did a post graduate and have a successful career.
I try to surround myself with people who are anti-racists. Just saying I'm not racist is not enough. Not even the "I have a friend who's [insert race here]".
My friends are the ones who help refugees or visitors integrate, who celebrate other cultures openly. My best friend is the English guy that is more Latino than the Latinos in every salsa party. They are the people who treats everyone as equal.
Actions speak louder than words.
Celebrate other cultures more than ours. l love our culture and think it's the greatest."Of course. Our culture defines us. It is what makes us individuals. My culture is British, more Londoner. But now I'm becoming more Amsterdamer Dutch. | |||
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"If you find yourself starting sentences with "I'm not racist but..." that's not a good sign! what about starting like this: To be called a racist when you honestly feel you are not in any way racist
I feel I am a gorgeous 5'10" model but I'm not.
Even if YOU don't feel racist but you ACT it and your core beliefs are racist then you're racist.
We are all a little bit racist. I choose to acknowledge mine and behave in ways to mitigate that and avoid offending others. I choose to act graciously to the unintentional but well meaning people who make racists comments to me every week.
It seems you choose to believe you are so evolved that your comments, no matter how rude and offensive, put your beliefs about yourself being a true egalitarian with no racism in a position to say whatever you like.
Also, if multiple people are telling you that you are racist, it might be time to have a think about it.
Being British born with 100% Latino roots. I understand the harm of racism and non-racism actions. For example, your teacher laughing at your aspirations in going to uni because you're latino. Luckily I didn't listen and did a post graduate and have a successful career.
I try to surround myself with people who are anti-racists. Just saying I'm not racist is not enough. Not even the "I have a friend who's [insert race here]".
My friends are the ones who help refugees or visitors integrate, who celebrate other cultures openly. My best friend is the English guy that is more Latino than the Latinos in every salsa party. They are the people who treats everyone as equal.
Actions speak louder than words.
Celebrate other cultures more than ours. l love our culture and think it's the greatest.
Of course. Our culture defines us. It is what makes us individuals. My culture is British, more Londoner. But now I'm becoming more Amsterdamer Dutch."London isn't British anymore. lt's a cultural island. | |||
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" Actions speak louder than words. Celebrate other cultures more than ours. l love our culture and think it's the greatest. Of course. Our culture defines us. It is what makes us individuals. My culture is British, more Londoner. But now I'm becoming more Amsterdamer Dutch. London isn't British anymore. lt's a cultural island." What does that mean? London is British, and very much so for some things, but it is also wonderfully cosmopolitan. | |||
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"If you find yourself starting sentences with "I'm not racist but..." that's not a good sign! what about starting like this: To be called a racist when you honestly feel you are not in any way racist
I feel I am a gorgeous 5'10" model but I'm not.
Even if YOU don't feel racist but you ACT it and your core beliefs are racist then you're racist.
We are all a little bit racist. I choose to acknowledge mine and behave in ways to mitigate that and avoid offending others. I choose to act graciously to the unintentional but well meaning people who make racists comments to me every week.
It seems you choose to believe you are so evolved that your comments, no matter how rude and offensive, put your beliefs about yourself being a true egalitarian with no racism in a position to say whatever you like.
I'm definately racist. It just happens that I hate the people that are the same race as me.
What race are you? l've been called racist. l don't mind though. A lot of my family are extremely dark for the Ashkenazim: l'm fair. Water off my back tbh."I'm British and I loath a large proportion of the British population. They are, what I consider, lazy. | |||
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"If you find yourself starting sentences with "I'm not racist but..." that's not a good sign! what about starting like this: To be called a racist when you honestly feel you are not in any way racist
I feel I am a gorgeous 5'10" model but I'm not.
Even if YOU don't feel racist but you ACT it and your core beliefs are racist then you're racist.
We are all a little bit racist. I choose to acknowledge mine and behave in ways to mitigate that and avoid offending others. I choose to act graciously to the unintentional but well meaning people who make racists comments to me every week.
It seems you choose to believe you are so evolved that your comments, no matter how rude and offensive, put your beliefs about yourself being a true egalitarian with no racism in a position to say whatever you like.
Also, if multiple people are telling you that you are racist, it might be time to have a think about it.
Being British born with 100% Latino roots. I understand the harm of racism and non-racism actions. For example, your teacher laughing at your aspirations in going to uni because you're latino. Luckily I didn't listen and did a post graduate and have a successful career.
I try to surround myself with people who are anti-racists. Just saying I'm not racist is not enough. Not even the "I have a friend who's [insert race here]".
My friends are the ones who help refugees or visitors integrate, who celebrate other cultures openly. My best friend is the English guy that is more Latino than the Latinos in every salsa party. They are the people who treats everyone as equal.
Actions speak louder than words.
Celebrate other cultures more than ours. l love our culture and think it's the greatest.
Of course. Our culture defines us. It is what makes us individuals. My culture is British, more Londoner. But now I'm becoming more Amsterdamer Dutch.
London isn't British anymore. lt's a cultural island."I was brought up in the Docklands. It was British to us. There is not one British culture. We do not have the same way of life in East London and West London. We have different mannerisms and customs in Liverpool and Sheffield. What about Cornwall and Glasgow. How different are they? There is not a single culture that defines us as British. Just our nationality. Culture is the ideas, customs, and social behaviour of a particular people or society. | |||
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"Wish British people would stop talking about racist and racism... This as what Britain defines as being racist is "Kindergarten". Go live in Germany, Switzerland or Italy then you will learn what it means to be a foreigner... Believe me (m) I know speaking fluent German, Swiss German, French, Italian and other languages... Not to be accepted because one was born abroad, to be bullied on a daily base at school and not only by the fellow pupils but by teachers... To see how the police side with the agitators and not with the victims... Because a person is black is beaten up within seconds because he could not show an ID card and the 2 policemen get away with a warning and now this person (who lived 32 years in that country and worked as a male nurse) is in a wheelchair... That fellow British citizens is racism and nothing else... I strongly support minorities as I had to fight during my years in Europe on a day base against "nasty remarks" and aggression. Even during my military time in my 2nd country as officer I stood up against abuse of recruits from other countries [2nd generation Italians, Portuguese, etc] and my fellow officers never accepted that... Live in a country where racism is daily around you...then speak of racism" Ridiculous comment. To doctors have to have had cancer to treat it. Normal British people have been victims of racism as well. I certainly have. It doesn't bother me though | |||
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"If you find yourself starting sentences with "I'm not racist but..." that's not a good sign! what about starting like this: To be called a racist when you honestly feel you are not in any way racist
I feel I am a gorgeous 5'10" model but I'm not.
Even if YOU don't feel racist but you ACT it and your core beliefs are racist then you're racist.
We are all a little bit racist. I choose to acknowledge mine and behave in ways to mitigate that and avoid offending others. I choose to act graciously to the unintentional but well meaning people who make racists comments to me every week.
It seems you choose to believe you are so evolved that your comments, no matter how rude and offensive, put your beliefs about yourself being a true egalitarian with no racism in a position to say whatever you like.
I'm definately racist. It just happens that I hate the people that are the same race as me.
What race are you? l've been called racist. l don't mind though. A lot of my family are extremely dark for the Ashkenazim: l'm fair. Water off my back tbh.
I'm British and I loath a large proportion of the British population. They are, what I consider, lazy. ". Racist  | |||
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"I messaging a fella off here I used the term 'hun'. Now this is a word I use in everyday life, as do most of the community I live in. This fella went absolutely ballistic accused me of being racist. How now was I to know he was of German decent. No mention in the profile, nothing mentioned in his messages. But there I was deemed racist by my language. If I had known I would not have used the term (yep I'm neither a racist nor an idiot) but it was his issue. I was deeply offended but some people are too quick to throw the racist card about. " Aye right. Lol. No way. | |||
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"If you find yourself starting sentences with "I'm not racist but..." that's not a good sign! what about starting like this: To be called a racist when you honestly feel you are not in any way racist
I feel I am a gorgeous 5'10" model but I'm not.
Even if YOU don't feel racist but you ACT it and your core beliefs are racist then you're racist.
We are all a little bit racist. I choose to acknowledge mine and behave in ways to mitigate that and avoid offending others. I choose to act graciously to the unintentional but well meaning people who make racists comments to me every week.
It seems you choose to believe you are so evolved that your comments, no matter how rude and offensive, put your beliefs about yourself being a true egalitarian with no racism in a position to say whatever you like.
Also, if multiple people are telling you that you are racist, it might be time to have a think about it.
Being British born with 100% Latino roots. I understand the harm of racism and non-racism actions. For example, your teacher laughing at your aspirations in going to uni because you're latino. Luckily I didn't listen and did a post graduate and have a successful career.
I try to surround myself with people who are anti-racists. Just saying I'm not racist is not enough. Not even the "I have a friend who's [insert race here]".
My friends are the ones who help refugees or visitors integrate, who celebrate other cultures openly. My best friend is the English guy that is more Latino than the Latinos in every salsa party. They are the people who treats everyone as equal.
Actions speak louder than words."You can dedicate your life to making the world a better place for others, helping people around the world both through your profession and volunteering and you will still find ignorant people on this forum who will call you a racist. | |||
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"Everyone is prejudiced in one way or another. That is human nature. The trick is how you deal with it. I could easily claim to have been the victim of racism throughout my younger years but I don't think I was. A bit of name calling is nothing. Racism, for me, is something completely different born out of ignorance, stupidity, occasional perceived injustice and irrational hatred. Not stupid comments on a forum. It's gingers we should be worried about "Whhooo hey there buddy us gingers are a proud race who have had years of shit we will one day rule the world and make all none gingers are slaves lol | |||
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"If you find yourself starting sentences with "I'm not racist but..." that's not a good sign! what about starting like this: To be called a racist when you honestly feel you are not in any way racist
I feel I am a gorgeous 5'10" model but I'm not.
Even if YOU don't feel racist but you ACT it and your core beliefs are racist then you're racist.
We are all a little bit racist. I choose to acknowledge mine and behave in ways to mitigate that and avoid offending others. I choose to act graciously to the unintentional but well meaning people who make racists comments to me every week.
It seems you choose to believe you are so evolved that your comments, no matter how rude and offensive, put your beliefs about yourself being a true egalitarian with no racism in a position to say whatever you like.
Also, if multiple people are telling you that you are racist, it might be time to have a think about it.
Being British born with 100% Latino roots. I understand the harm of racism and non-racism actions. For example, your teacher laughing at your aspirations in going to uni because you're latino. Luckily I didn't listen and did a post graduate and have a successful career.
I try to surround myself with people who are anti-racists. Just saying I'm not racist is not enough. Not even the "I have a friend who's [insert race here]".
My friends are the ones who help refugees or visitors integrate, who celebrate other cultures openly. My best friend is the English guy that is more Latino than the Latinos in every salsa party. They are the people who treats everyone as equal.
Actions speak louder than words.
You can dedicate your life to making the world a better place for others, helping people around the world both through your profession and volunteering and you will still find ignorant people on this forum who will call you a racist. "I wouldn't attempt to wipe out ignorance. I'm attempting to not let ignorance get to me by surrounding myself with people who care. That's my selfishness. Other than that I do help others since I'm in a position to. | |||
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"Wish British people would stop talking about racist and racism... This as what Britain defines as being racist is "Kindergarten". Go live in Germany, Switzerland or Italy then you will learn what it means to be a foreigner... Believe me (m) I know speaking fluent German, Swiss German, French, Italian and other languages... Not to be accepted because one was born abroad, to be bullied on a daily base at school and not only by the fellow pupils but by teachers... To see how the police side with the agitators and not with the victims... Because a person is black is beaten up within seconds because he could not show an ID card and the 2 policemen get away with a warning and now this person (who lived 32 years in that country and worked as a male nurse) is in a wheelchair... That fellow British citizens is racism and nothing else... I strongly support minorities as I had to fight during my years in Europe on a day base against "nasty remarks" and aggression. Even during my military time in my 2nd country as officer I stood up against abuse of recruits from other countries [2nd generation Italians, Portuguese, etc] and my fellow officers never accepted that... Live in a country where racism is daily around you...then speak of racism" I agree it's worse in other countries than Britain. It doesn't mean it doesn't exist. I lived in a country where they torture you and kill you if you had a different ideology or voted for the wrong government. That's a different ball game. | |||
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"Everyone is prejudiced in one way or another. That is human nature. The trick is how you deal with it. I could easily claim to have been the victim of racism throughout my younger years but I don't think I was. A bit of name calling is nothing. Racism, for me, is something completely different born out of ignorance, stupidity, occasional perceived injustice and irrational hatred. Not stupid comments on a forum. It's gingers we should be worried about
Whhooo hey there buddy us gingers are a proud race who have had years of shit we will one day rule the world and make all none gingers are slaves lol"Oi. Watch it with all your GS (Ginger State) idoelogies | |||
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"So is this racist? http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/blogs-trending-37107541" No | |||
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"So is this racist? http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/blogs-trending-37107541" I believe it's not intended that way. It's not what people say or do that defines then, it's their intentions. Two people may do the exact same actions. For example, put their bag on the seat next to them and read a paper peering up when someone passes. It's the exact same actions. However, one is looking up hoping that someone doesn't sit down next to them. The other is looking up to see if that person needs to sit down like a parent and child or someone elderly. Their intentions define who they are. | |||
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"So is this racist? http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/blogs-trending-37107541 I believe it's not intended that way. It's not what people say or do that defines then, it's their intentions. Two people may do the exact same actions. For example, put their bag on the seat next to them and read a paper peering up when someone passes. It's the exact same actions. However, one is looking up hoping that someone doesn't sit down next to them. The other is looking up to see if that person needs to sit down like a parent and child or someone elderly. Their intentions define who they are. " Agreed. A Nazi would say the word "Jew" very differently to how the rest of us would. | |||
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"So is this racist? http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/blogs-trending-37107541 I believe it's not intended that way. It's not what people say or do that defines then, it's their intentions. Two people may do the exact same actions. For example, put their bag on the seat next to them and read a paper peering up when someone passes. It's the exact same actions. However, one is looking up hoping that someone doesn't sit down next to them. The other is looking up to see if that person needs to sit down like a parent and child or someone elderly. Their intentions define who they are. " Which is sort of where I was coming from in my OP. If someone means no offence (in this case racism) and uses language that has never been challenged before then surely they are not racist even if someone (even a minority) call them racist? And for 'racist' you could also substitute 'anti-semitism', 'homophobia' and all the other unacceptable forms of abuse and definition. The classic example is where a person of colour use the 'N' word to a friend and its accepted for what it is: Banter. A white stranger using the same word to that man of colour would be in some difficulty to say the least. Is there a supplementary question here? If someone MEANS no racist, homophobic, whatever offence but someone for their own reasons takes offence is that reason enough to call the first person 'racist'. 'anti-Semitic' 'whateverist'....?? | |||
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"So is this racist? http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/blogs-trending-37107541 I believe it's not intended that way. It's not what people say or do that defines then, it's their intentions. Two people may do the exact same actions. For example, put their bag on the seat next to them and read a paper peering up when someone passes. It's the exact same actions. However, one is looking up hoping that someone doesn't sit down next to them. The other is looking up to see if that person needs to sit down like a parent and child or someone elderly. Their intentions define who they are. Which is sort of where I was coming from in my OP. If someone means no offence (in this case racism) and uses language that has never been challenged before then surely they are not racist even if someone (even a minority) call them racist? And for 'racist' you could also substitute 'anti-semitism', 'homophobia' and all the other unacceptable forms of abuse and definition. The classic example is where a person of colour use the 'N' word to a friend and its accepted for what it is: Banter. A white stranger using the same word to that man of colour would be in some difficulty to say the least. Is there a supplementary question here? If someone MEANS no racist, homophobic, whatever offence but someone for their own reasons takes offence is that reason enough to call the first person 'racist'. 'anti-Semitic' 'whateverist'....??" That's covers overt racism but as someone explained earlier, there are different types. I get fucked off with people asking my wife 101 questions about China like that's the only flecking thing that defines her personality and she couldn't possibly be a normal human who has hobbies and personal interests. They aren't doing it deliberately but it still makes them a cunt. | |||
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"So is this racist? http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/blogs-trending-37107541 I believe it's not intended that way. It's not what people say or do that defines then, it's their intentions. Two people may do the exact same actions. For example, put their bag on the seat next to them and read a paper peering up when someone passes. It's the exact same actions. However, one is looking up hoping that someone doesn't sit down next to them. The other is looking up to see if that person needs to sit down like a parent and child or someone elderly. Their intentions define who they are. Which is sort of where I was coming from in my OP. If someone means no offence (in this case racism) and uses language that has never been challenged before then surely they are not racist even if someone (even a minority) call them racist? And for 'racist' you could also substitute 'anti-semitism', 'homophobia' and all the other unacceptable forms of abuse and definition. The classic example is where a person of colour use the 'N' word to a friend and its accepted for what it is: Banter. A white stranger using the same word to that man of colour would be in some difficulty to say the least. Is there a supplementary question here? If someone MEANS no racist, homophobic, whatever offence but someone for their own reasons takes offence is that reason enough to call the first person 'racist'. 'anti-Semitic' 'whateverist'....??" See my earlier post on different types of racism. | |||
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"So is this racist? http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/blogs-trending-37107541 I believe it's not intended that way. It's not what people say or do that defines then, it's their intentions. Two people may do the exact same actions. For example, put their bag on the seat next to them and read a paper peering up when someone passes. It's the exact same actions. However, one is looking up hoping that someone doesn't sit down next to them. The other is looking up to see if that person needs to sit down like a parent and child or someone elderly. Their intentions define who they are. Which is sort of where I was coming from in my OP. If someone means no offence (in this case racism) and uses language that has never been challenged before then surely they are not racist even if someone (even a minority) call them racist? And for 'racist' you could also substitute 'anti-semitism', 'homophobia' and all the other unacceptable forms of abuse and definition. The classic example is where a person of colour use the 'N' word to a friend and its accepted for what it is: Banter. A white stranger using the same word to that man of colour would be in some difficulty to say the least. Is there a supplementary question here? If someone MEANS no racist, homophobic, whatever offence but someone for their own reasons takes offence is that reason enough to call the first person 'racist'. 'anti-Semitic' 'whateverist'....??" The difference being; the OP already knows this is a harmful word of which the OP has used in other threads specifically after being pulled up, the OP then goes on to make this thread knowing it will still up more hassle whilst thinking he can justify his previous actions More than one person has pulled him up for his vile comments and rather than stop his actions he escalates There is no need for any racist words or comments and they should be stopped immediately. | |||
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" The difference being; the OP already knows this is a harmful word of which the OP has used in other threads specifically after being pulled up" Wrong. It was only YOU that 'pulled me up' with the single word 'RACIST' (your caps). And you did it twice to cause an argument instead of explaining quietly why the word 'Jock' might cause offence. You are pulling the same stunt now rather than enter the various aspects of the discussion. Just because you feel something that doesn't make it so. As I explained at the time in detail and was actually supported by others. " the OP then goes on to make this thread knowing it will still up more hassle whilst thinking he can justify his previous actions" Again you infer an intention that is just not there rather than discuss the issues. I asked an open question as to how someone using ONE word that has been used in Official, Military and general circles could attract such an extreme reaction from one source. You. " More than one person has pulled him up for his vile comments and rather than stop his actions he escalates " This Thread was started to ask an open question about how people perceive racism and I gave a factual context for that question. An open debate isn't about who supports who but as you mention it I think you and one other have called the use of the word 'Jock' unacceptable. Some have said 'who cares' and others have made more general comments about racism and racist comments (intended and unintended). So someone strenuously disagrees with your very personal attack and that is 'escalating'? Someone asking an open and honest question is 'escalating'? Sorry but I think its you escalating matters by the language you are using. Saying 'You Jocks make me smile' are now 'Vile comments'? There was no descriptor or adjective denigrating Scots people at all (eg: Fucking useless Jocks). Although I was of course taking the piss out of the SNP but they are fair game as they are a political party NOT a race ... " There is no need for any racist words or comments and they should be stopped immediately." You are right. And none were used intentionally to cause offence or indeed accidentally except in your mind. | |||
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"So is this racist? http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/blogs-trending-37107541 I believe it's not intended that way. It's not what people say or do that defines then, it's their intentions. Two people may do the exact same actions. For example, put their bag on the seat next to them and read a paper peering up when someone passes. It's the exact same actions. However, one is looking up hoping that someone doesn't sit down next to them. The other is looking up to see if that person needs to sit down like a parent and child or someone elderly. Their intentions define who they are. Which is sort of where I was coming from in my OP. If someone means no offence (in this case racism) and uses language that has never been challenged before then surely they are not racist even if someone (even a minority) call them racist? And for 'racist' you could also substitute 'anti-semitism', 'homophobia' and all the other unacceptable forms of abuse and definition. The classic example is where a person of colour use the 'N' word to a friend and its accepted for what it is: Banter. A white stranger using the same word to that man of colour would be in some difficulty to say the least. Is there a supplementary question here? If someone MEANS no racist, homophobic, whatever offence but someone for their own reasons takes offence is that reason enough to call the first person 'racist'. 'anti-Semitic' 'whateverist'....?? See my earlier post on different types of racism. " Great definitions. Fully agree with it. My friend's make a joke about my origin, I don't mind. But if they said it to my parents or family friends I'd tell them outright they're being rude and it's a racist remark, so they should apologise immediately. Or I'd beat them up .
Funny, now I think about it. It's still racist. It just doesn't mean they're racist though. Although, I'm part of the problem too.
... Goes to contemplate in a corner... | |||
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"So is this racist? http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/blogs-trending-37107541 I believe it's not intended that way. It's not what people say or do that defines then, it's their intentions. Two people may do the exact same actions. For example, put their bag on the seat next to them and read a paper peering up when someone passes. It's the exact same actions. However, one is looking up hoping that someone doesn't sit down next to them. The other is looking up to see if that person needs to sit down like a parent and child or someone elderly. Their intentions define who they are. Which is sort of where I was coming from in my OP. If someone means no offence (in this case racism) and uses language that has never been challenged before then surely they are not racist even if someone (even a minority) call them racist? And for 'racist' you could also substitute 'anti-semitism', 'homophobia' and all the other unacceptable forms of abuse and definition. The classic example is where a person of colour use the 'N' word to a friend and its accepted for what it is: Banter. A white stranger using the same word to that man of colour would be in some difficulty to say the least. Is there a supplementary question here? If someone MEANS no racist, homophobic, whatever offence but someone for their own reasons takes offence is that reason enough to call the first person 'racist'. 'anti-Semitic' 'whateverist'....?? See my earlier post on different types of racism. Great definitions. Fully agree with it. My friend's make a joke about my origin, I don't mind. But if they said it to my parents or family friends I'd tell them outright they're being rude and it's a racist remark, so they should apologise immediately. Or I'd beat them up .
Funny, now I think about it. It's still racist. It just doesn't mean they're racist though. Although, I'm part of the problem too.
... Goes to contemplate in a corner..."To add to your contemplation: Is a man of colour using the word 'nigger' a racist? And if he isn't why is a white man who uses it a racist? Can I suggest it is context that is the criteria and not the word itself? | |||
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" To add to your contemplation: Is a man of colour using the word 'nigger' a racist? And if he isn't why is a white man who uses it a racist? Can I suggest it is context that is the criteria and not the word itself?" The term itself is racist in either context. What people will assume is that it does not reflect the true feelings of a black person but it may reflect the true feelings of another race. | |||
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" See my earlier post on different types of racism. Great definitions. Fully agree with it. My friend's make a joke about my origin, I don't mind. But if they said it to my parents or family friends I'd tell them outright they're being rude and it's a racist remark, so they should apologise immediately. Or I'd beat them up .
Funny, now I think about it. It's still racist. It just doesn't mean they're racist though. Although, I'm part of the problem too.
... Goes to contemplate in a corner...
To add to your contemplation:
Is a man of colour using the word 'nigger' a racist? And if he isn't why is a white man who uses it a racist? Can I suggest it is context that is the criteria and not the word itself?"Go back and read the different definitions again. It is still racist, whoever says it. How it is RECEIVED is different depending on the context. Black on black racism exists. People of colour get homogenised into groups that don't take account of the different ethnicities within the groups or how we perceive ourselves. | |||
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" See my earlier post on different types of racism. Great definitions. Fully agree with it. My friend's make a joke about my origin, I don't mind. But if they said it to my parents or family friends I'd tell them outright they're being rude and it's a racist remark, so they should apologise immediately. Or I'd beat them up .
Funny, now I think about it. It's still racist. It just doesn't mean they're racist though. Although, I'm part of the problem too.
... Goes to contemplate in a corner...
To add to your contemplation:
Is a man of colour using the word 'nigger' a racist? And if he isn't why is a white man who uses it a racist? Can I suggest it is context that is the criteria and not the word itself?
Go back and read the different definitions again. It is still racist, whoever says it. How it is RECEIVED is different depending on the context.
Black on black racism exists. People of colour get homogenised into groups that don't take account of the different ethnicities within the groups or how we perceive ourselves.
"There is certainly plenty of Asian on Asian racism too. | |||
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"To be called a racist when you honestly feel you are not in any way racist let alone would never post racist statements is a very hurtful and personal thing to endure. " Personally I must have a thicker skin I guess as people could call me whatever they want & I wouldn't give a fuck | |||
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" See my earlier post on different types of racism. Great definitions. Fully agree with it. My friend's make a joke about my origin, I don't mind. But if they said it to my parents or family friends I'd tell them outright they're being rude and it's a racist remark, so they should apologise immediately. Or I'd beat them up .
Funny, now I think about it. It's still racist. It just doesn't mean they're racist though. Although, I'm part of the problem too.
... Goes to contemplate in a corner...
To add to your contemplation:
Is a man of colour using the word 'nigger' a racist? And if he isn't why is a white man who uses it a racist? Can I suggest it is context that is the criteria and not the word itself?
Go back and read the different definitions again. It is still racist, whoever says it. How it is RECEIVED is different depending on the context.
Black on black racism exists. People of colour get homogenised into groups that don't take account of the different ethnicities within the groups or how we perceive ourselves.
There is certainly plenty of Asian on Asian racism too. ". I keep saying this, it's not racism, it's culturalism. There's no black people discriminating against black people because there black, it's the different cultures that don't mix well!. I've got a few Muslim friends but there very westernised Muslims, I find it easy to talk and mix with them because we're not really that separated by our different cultures, the skin tone difference comes in for some occasional ribbing, mainly when it's either freezing cold and he hates the cold or boiling hot and I don't do sun well!. | |||
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I never judge someone on race... I judge them on attitude | |||
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