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Armed Police

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By *LCC OP   Couple
over a year ago

Cambridge

In light of recent terrorist attacks, is it time for police in the UK to be routinely armed?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"In light of recent terrorist attacks, is it time for police in the UK to be routinely armed? "

yes so that they can shoot the foreigners the sharks didn't eat

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By *illwill69uMan
over a year ago

moston

I have news for you OP, our police are always armed when on duty, just not with firearms.

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By *horehouseCouple
over a year ago

dissatisfied


"In light of recent terrorist attacks, is it time for police in the UK to be routinely armed?

yes so that they can shoot the foreigners the sharks didn't eat"

So that's why the gardia civil have guns and there's me thinking there guns were for all silly me ...best i start wearing my sombrero ..no wait I'll be ok there slightly less racist the average brexiter

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"In light of recent terrorist attacks, is it time for police in the UK to be routinely armed? "

Does it help in France?

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By *oo hotCouple
over a year ago

North West


"In light of recent terrorist attacks, is it time for police in the UK to be routinely armed?

Does it help in France? "

Bad as the Paris and Nice attacks were, they would have been much worse had it not been for the fact that very heavily armed Police were on the scene.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

We've just returned from an incredible time traveling through Israel.

Wonderful country, but the site of heavily armed police and conscripted military on every corner, airport-style security everywhere from bus stations to supermarkets and a general atmosphere (in Palestinian areas) of distrust and unease is one I truly hope we never get to.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"In light of recent terrorist attacks, is it time for police in the UK to be routinely armed?

Does it help in France?

Bad as the Paris and Nice attacks were, they would have been much worse had it not been for the fact that very heavily armed Police were on the scene. "

But one of the criticisms of the French security forces is also that they tend to have a reactive stance on these things and just go in all guns blazing at the end.

I don't know enough about policing to say which point is worth more weight.

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By *LCC OP   Couple
over a year ago

Cambridge


"In light of recent terrorist attacks, is it time for police in the UK to be routinely armed?

Does it help in France?

Bad as the Paris and Nice attacks were, they would have been much worse had it not been for the fact that very heavily armed Police were on the scene.

But one of the criticisms of the French security forces is also that they tend to have a reactive stance on these things and just go in all guns blazing at the end.

I don't know enough about policing to say which point is worth more weight. "

Do you think that armed British police would cause the same problem?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"In light of recent terrorist attacks, is it time for police in the UK to be routinely armed?

Does it help in France?

Bad as the Paris and Nice attacks were, they would have been much worse had it not been for the fact that very heavily armed Police were on the scene.

But one of the criticisms of the French security forces is also that they tend to have a reactive stance on these things and just go in all guns blazing at the end.

I don't know enough about policing to say which point is worth more weight.

Do you think that armed British police would cause the same problem?"

I believe that the nature of leaders in public institutions is to delay decisions as long as possible. But as I say, I don't know enough about policing to weight that trade off. Personally if the police want them then I'd let them have them. That's consistent with my stance on nuclear weapons and the MOD. If you give someone a job to do then you don't tell them how to do it.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Martial law is coming soon to a country near you.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Martial law is coming soon to a country near you. "

Before or after the apocalypse?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Before. Very soon, just wait and see

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"I have news for you OP, our police are always armed when on duty, just not with firearms."

good bloody job because they are very poor shot's

Some of them who visit the range we shoot at are neither good in firearm handling nor a good shot

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Before. Very soon, just wait and see"

OK, when we're all dead then you can say "I told you so"

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"In light of recent terrorist attacks, is it time for police in the UK to be routinely armed? "

which firearms should they be armed with

(as in hand gun make & model) rifle make & model)??

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

It will eventually come to that, the only good thing is that we do not have automatic right to bare arms or we would be in the same boat as the USA

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By *horehouseCouple
over a year ago

dissatisfied


"In light of recent terrorist attacks, is it time for police in the UK to be routinely armed?

which firearms should they be armed with

(as in hand gun make & model) rifle make & model)??"

Mini Uzi smg. To allow for them being poor shots

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By *LCC OP   Couple
over a year ago

Cambridge


"In light of recent terrorist attacks, is it time for police in the UK to be routinely armed?

which firearms should they be armed with

(as in hand gun make & model) rifle make & model)??"

I enjoy talking about guns as much as the next guy, but would difference would that make to the principle of armed vs non-armed policing?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Martial law is coming soon to a country near you. "

Sounds like you're looking forward to it.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Before. Very soon, just wait and see

OK, when we're all dead then you can say "I told you so""

When we are all dead? You can see this happening all around the world. Do you not watch the news? There is a huge change in the way countries are dealing with issues. Every other day there is a new terrorist attack or some crazy person shooting up something. Here in the US, why are military vehicles and soldiers so much more visable and in metro/urban areas? Shit is about to hit the fan. I wont change the way I live my life, but we are in dire times. Changes are happening right in front of our eyes but we just overlook many things or look the other way.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Martial law is coming soon to a country near you.

Sounds like you're looking forward to it."

Hell no i am not looking forward to it

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Before. Very soon, just wait and see

OK, when we're all dead then you can say "I told you so"

When we are all dead? You can see this happening all around the world. Do you not watch the news? There is a huge change in the way countries are dealing with issues. Every other day there is a new terrorist attack or some crazy person shooting up something. Here in the US, why are military vehicles and soldiers so much more visable and in metro/urban areas? Shit is about to hit the fan. I wont change the way I live my life, but we are in dire times. Changes are happening right in front of our eyes but we just overlook many things or look the other way. "

Yeah I watch the news but I'm also not afraid to question it. As a point of a fact, a study by the university of pennsylvania found that predictions made in the news perform worse than guessing. Usually because they only bring people at the extremes onto the shows and the truth is somewhere in the middle.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Martial law is coming soon to a country near you.

Before or after the apocalypse? "

Tha apocalypse can't come yet. Magrat stole pestilences horse!

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

glock pistol and i go for half on mp5 smg and others carrying m4 and for total over kill all should hav a barratt 50cal in boots of patrol car

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By *its_n_piecesCouple
over a year ago

with the police track record for constantly doing stupid shit on the spur of the moment, then it's probably not a great idea to give them any more weapons

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"In light of recent terrorist attacks, is it time for police in the UK to be routinely armed?

Does it help in France?

Bad as the Paris and Nice attacks were, they would have been much worse had it not been for the fact that very heavily armed Police were on the scene.

But one of the criticisms of the French security forces is also that they tend to have a reactive stance on these things and just go in all guns blazing at the end.

I don't know enough about policing to say which point is worth more weight.

Do you think that armed British police would cause the same problem?

I believe that the nature of leaders in public institutions is to delay decisions as long as possible. But as I say, I don't know enough about policing to weight that trade off. Personally if the police want them then I'd let them have them. That's consistent with my stance on nuclear weapons and the MOD. If you give someone a job to do then you don't tell them how to do it. "

Personally I am still debating between two sides of myself on nuclear deterrents. But generally I agree with what you have said, if a group of people have been given jobs to control a certain area of government or a business, and they say we don't or do need this, then trust them on it. If you can't trust them, then you most likely haven't picked the best candidates, and if their judgement is incorrect out rightly, then replace them with somebody more competent.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"In light of recent terrorist attacks, is it time for police in the UK to be routinely armed?

which firearms should they be armed with

(as in hand gun make & model) rifle make & model)??

I enjoy talking about guns as much as the next guy, but would difference would that make to the principle of armed vs non-armed policing? "

I do not think we need it excessively, and a big part of me is currently against it. However, perhaps to reassure members of the public who are scared of terror threats, perhaps a slight increase in armed policing, in metropolitan hubs would be beneficial.

But then again, I don't work for the police, intelligence agency, or armed forces so I am not in a position to put forward the best methods of prevention and neutralising a threat if it came to it.

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By *LCC OP   Couple
over a year ago

Cambridge


"with the police track record for constantly doing stupid shit on the spur of the moment, then it's probably not a great idea to give them any more weapons"

The police only fired 7 times in the period March 2015 - March 2016 so I think they have a good track record of being responsible.

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By *its_n_piecesCouple
over a year ago


"with the police track record for constantly doing stupid shit on the spur of the moment, then it's probably not a great idea to give them any more weapons

The police only fired 7 times in the period March 2015 - March 2016 so I think they have a good track record of being responsible. "

if they had no guns they wouldn't have fired once would they ..... lets keep it at 7 or preferably less by not putting temptation in harms way and giving them firearms, because as proven, they regularly do lots of stupid shit on the spur of the moment.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

No

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By *ouple1000Couple
over a year ago

manchester


"In light of recent terrorist attacks, is it time for police in the UK to be routinely armed?

Does it help in France? "

Yes

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By *LCC OP   Couple
over a year ago

Cambridge


"with the police track record for constantly doing stupid shit on the spur of the moment, then it's probably not a great idea to give them any more weapons

The police only fired 7 times in the period March 2015 - March 2016 so I think they have a good track record of being responsible.

if they had no guns they wouldn't have fired once would they ..... lets keep it at 7 or preferably less by not putting temptation in harms way and giving them firearms, because as proven, they regularly do lots of stupid shit on the spur of the moment."

Like what?

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By *its_n_piecesCouple
over a year ago


"with the police track record for constantly doing stupid shit on the spur of the moment, then it's probably not a great idea to give them any more weapons

The police only fired 7 times in the period March 2015 - March 2016 so I think they have a good track record of being responsible.

if they had no guns they wouldn't have fired once would they ..... lets keep it at 7 or preferably less by not putting temptation in harms way and giving them firearms, because as proven, they regularly do lots of stupid shit on the spur of the moment.

Like what? "

countless acts of stupid shit in the spur of the moment ......

here's a recent one featuring some real idiotic cunts in blue uniforms being caught out by sousveilance

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By *LCC OP   Couple
over a year ago

Cambridge


"with the police track record for constantly doing stupid shit on the spur of the moment, then it's probably not a great idea to give them any more weapons

The police only fired 7 times in the period March 2015 - March 2016 so I think they have a good track record of being responsible.

if they had no guns they wouldn't have fired once would they ..... lets keep it at 7 or preferably less by not putting temptation in harms way and giving them firearms, because as proven, they regularly do lots of stupid shit on the spur of the moment.

Like what?

countless acts of stupid shit in the spur of the moment ......

here's a recent one featuring some real idiotic cunts in blue uniforms being caught out by sousveilance"

I don't know what you are talking about. Although there is always room for improvement, I have always been happy with the standard of policing in the UK. I certainly dont look at other countries and think "I wish we had their police here"

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"with the police track record for constantly doing stupid shit on the spur of the moment, then it's probably not a great idea to give them any more weapons

The police only fired 7 times in the period March 2015 - March 2016 so I think they have a good track record of being responsible.

if they had no guns they wouldn't have fired once would they ..... lets keep it at 7 or preferably less by not putting temptation in harms way and giving them firearms, because as proven, they regularly do lots of stupid shit on the spur of the moment.

Like what?

countless acts of stupid shit in the spur of the moment ......

here's a recent one featuring some real idiotic cunts in blue uniforms being caught out by sousveilance

I don't know what you are talking about. Although there is always room for improvement, I have always been happy with the standard of policing in the UK. I certainly dont look at other countries and think "I wish we had their police here" "

what about Batman?

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By *horehouseCouple
over a year ago

dissatisfied


"with the police track record for constantly doing stupid shit on the spur of the moment, then it's probably not a great idea to give them any more weapons

The police only fired 7 times in the period March 2015 - March 2016 so I think they have a good track record of being responsible.

if they had no guns they wouldn't have fired once would they ..... lets keep it at 7 or preferably less by not putting temptation in harms way and giving them firearms, because as proven, they regularly do lots of stupid shit on the spur of the moment.

Like what?

countless acts of stupid shit in the spur of the moment ......

here's a recent one featuring some real idiotic cunts in blue uniforms being caught out by sousveilance

I don't know what you are talking about. Although there is always room for improvement, I have always been happy with the standard of policing in the UK. I certainly dont look at other countries and think "I wish we had their police here"

what about Batman?"

More total bollocks from yourself !!!!!

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By *igsteve43Man
over a year ago

derby


"with the police track record for constantly doing stupid shit on the spur of the moment, then it's probably not a great idea to give them any more weapons

The police only fired 7 times in the period March 2015 - March 2016 so I think they have a good track record of being responsible.

if they had no guns they wouldn't have fired once would they ..... lets keep it at 7 or preferably less by not putting temptation in harms way and giving them firearms, because as proven, they regularly do lots of stupid shit on the spur of the moment.

Like what?

countless acts of stupid shit in the spur of the moment ......

here's a recent one featuring some real idiotic cunts in blue uniforms being caught out by sousveilance

I don't know what you are talking about. Although there is always room for improvement, I have always been happy with the standard of policing in the UK. I certainly dont look at other countries and think "I wish we had their police here" "

So you dont mind that british criminals are not scared one bit of our police or our justice system

Personally id love germany or spains police and id love singapores police and justice system

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"with the police track record for constantly doing stupid shit on the spur of the moment, then it's probably not a great idea to give them any more weapons

The police only fired 7 times in the period March 2015 - March 2016 so I think they have a good track record of being responsible.

if they had no guns they wouldn't have fired once would they ..... lets keep it at 7 or preferably less by not putting temptation in harms way and giving them firearms, because as proven, they regularly do lots of stupid shit on the spur of the moment.

Like what?

countless acts of stupid shit in the spur of the moment ......

here's a recent one featuring some real idiotic cunts in blue uniforms being caught out by sousveilance

I don't know what you are talking about. Although there is always room for improvement, I have always been happy with the standard of policing in the UK. I certainly dont look at other countries and think "I wish we had their police here"

So you dont mind that british criminals are not scared one bit of our police or our justice system

Personally id love germany or spains police and id love singapores police and justice system

"

Singapore is nice, felt very safe there. Then again, if we had their weather then the local hoodlums would be less keen to hang around on street corners.

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By *illwill69uMan
over a year ago

moston


"The police only fired 7 times in the period March 2015 - March 2016 so I think they have a good track record of being responsible. "

The number of times firearms are used is not the issue. The issue is how many times were firearms used correctly (that is in a timely fashion and without there being serious questions after the shootings about justification or police competence).

I would suggest that if you look at the police record since the withdrawal of routine MACP where firearms were required, that the number of questionable police shootings has risen dramatically.

The bottom line is police and guns don't mix well. It is simply police do not have time for the continual training required to make use of firearms a conditioned reflex thus freeing up the mind for target identification that an infanteer spends 20 to 30 hours a week honing when not on active service.

Just to be clear the military have the same problem when they have to use non infantry personnel in infantry rolls.

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By *LCC OP   Couple
over a year ago

Cambridge


"The police only fired 7 times in the period March 2015 - March 2016 so I think they have a good track record of being responsible.

The number of times firearms are used is not the issue. The issue is how many times were firearms used correctly (that is in a timely fashion and without there being serious questions after the shootings about justification or police competence).

I would suggest that if you look at the police record since the withdrawal of routine MACP where firearms were required, that the number of questionable police shootings has risen dramatically.

The bottom line is police and guns don't mix well. It is simply police do not have time for the continual training required to make use of firearms a conditioned reflex thus freeing up the mind for target identification that an infanteer spends 20 to 30 hours a week honing when not on active service.

Just to be clear the military have the same problem when they have to use non infantry personnel in infantry rolls."

The infantry in the UK dont spend anything remotely close to 20-30 hours a week using their firearms! Policing is very different to soldiering and that's why soldiers perform so poorly when asked to fulfil that role. Having a thorough investigation when a firearm is discharged is what I expect in an open and transparent society with the rule of law applied to everyone, police included.

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By *illwill69uMan
over a year ago

moston


"The infantry in the UK dont spend anything remotely close to 20-30 hours a week using their firearms! Policing is very different to soldiering and that's why soldiers perform so poorly when asked to fulfil that role. Having a thorough investigation when a firearm is discharged is what I expect in an open and transparent society with the rule of law applied to everyone, police included. "

Firstly, if you don't think infantry spend 20 to 30 hours a week on infantry training and honing combat infantry skills (when not deployed), which are centred on effective use of weapons skills, what do you think they do?

Secondly you are correct about soldiers not making good police, but that works in reverse as well. And my whole point is that as soon as police change rolls from maintaining public order and detecting crime, to a use of weapons and close combat tactics to restore public order or remove an armed threat the skills required are no longer police skills but are infantry skills and when police are required to act as infantry thing will go seriously wrong a lot more often that if infantry were used to restore order.

As for your last point about investigations, and police accountability. The truth is we all know police are not accountable, and nearly all investigations into police are at best whitewashes and at worst exercises in mass corruption. Further if we are being honest with ourselves we all know that this will always be the case when police investigate police (be they serving officers or former police officers now acting as IPCA investigators).

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By *horehouseCouple
over a year ago

dissatisfied


"The infantry in the UK dont spend anything remotely close to 20-30 hours a week using their firearms! Policing is very different to soldiering and that's why soldiers perform so poorly when asked to fulfil that role. Having a thorough investigation when a firearm is discharged is what I expect in an open and transparent society with the rule of law applied to everyone, police included.

Firstly, if you don't think infantry spend 20 to 30 hours a week on infantry training and honing combat infantry skills (when not deployed), which are centred on effective use of weapons skills, what do you think they do?

Secondly you are correct about soldiers not making good police, but that works in reverse as well. And my whole point is that as soon as police change rolls from maintaining public order and detecting crime, to a use of weapons and close combat tactics to restore public order or remove an armed threat the skills required are no longer police skills but are infantry skills and when police are required to act as infantry thing will go seriously wrong a lot more often that if infantry were used to restore order.

As for your last point about investigations, and police accountability. The truth is we all know police are not accountable, and nearly all investigations into police are at best whitewashes and at worst exercises in mass corruption. Further if we are being honest with ourselves we all know that this will always be the case when police investigate police (be they serving officers or former police officers now acting as IPCA investigators)."

A couple of hours a week for a squadie on a firing range many hours on manoeuvres some in urban environment not much use as an armed alternative to the police

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By *illwill69uMan
over a year ago

moston


"A couple of hours a week for a squadie on a firing range many hours on manoeuvres some in urban environment not much use as an armed alternative to the police "

If that is the case then things have changed a lot since my day.

I used to spend at least a day (10hrs or so) a week on a range (sometimes longer if getting ready for a shooting comp or deployment) and the same amount of time in an indoor ETR. Of course when on exercise or deployment my timetable would change.

(By the way, there was a police warrant card in my Pfile that was issued to me on more than 1 occasion.)

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

So its all falling apart in Mainland Europe (I avoid the term 'EU' as it starts arguments) and we can see that the French are not really that good at stopping either home grown or foreign terrorists. Neither apparently are Belgians. Germany seem to be able to react but not stop attacks.

I just hope we Brits can keep a sense of balance about all this. We have armed police if necessary but where we are better than everyone else is in our Intelligence (MI5, MI6) capabilities where we stop people before they kill people. When was the last (Islamic) terrorist attack in the UK? 2013 when Lee Rigby was killed by two people in a BMW? And before that? Ignoring a car in the front door of Glasgow airport in 2007 you have to go back 11 years to 2005 and the London bombings where 56 people were killed. Before that it was all IRA bombs.

We are basically an anti-gun society and have led the way in gun control and I would hate to see the ISIS nutters abroad drive us towards the even bigger nutters of the USA gun lobby.

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By *rown ThunderMan
over a year ago

newport


"So its all falling apart in Mainland Europe (I avoid the term 'EU' as it starts arguments) and we can see that the French are not really that good at stopping either home grown or foreign terrorists. Neither apparently are Belgians. Germany seem to be able to react but not stop attacks.

I just hope we Brits can keep a sense of balance about all this. We have armed police if necessary but where we are better than everyone else is in our Intelligence (MI5, MI6) capabilities where we stop people before they kill people. When was the last (Islamic) terrorist attack in the UK? 2013 when Lee Rigby was killed by two people in a BMW? And before that? Ignoring a car in the front door of Glasgow airport in 2007 you have to go back 11 years to 2005 and the London bombings where 56 people were killed. Before that it was all IRA bombs.

We are basically an anti-gun society and have led the way in gun control and I would hate to see the ISIS nutters abroad drive us towards the even bigger nutters of the USA gun lobby."

Actually last terrorist attack in UK was the killing of Jo Cox. Politically motivated killing is a terrorist killing. Why does it have to be 'Islamic'? Or are white Christians not capable of being terrorists?

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By *illwill69uMan
over a year ago

moston


"Actually last terrorist attack in UK was the killing of Jo Cox. Politically motivated killing is a terrorist killing. Why does it have to be 'Islamic'? Or are white Christians not capable of being terrorists?"

It is such a pity that our leaders corrupt and devalue language to further their political ambitions. Our politicians are too quick to label things as terrorism.

The attack on Jo Cox was not terrorism, although calling it such provides some with political capital. The republican attacks on British targets were not terrorism although again categorising them as such removed their legitimacy and justified our governments response.

Fact is the 'troubles' in NI were an insurgency caused by British government policy over hundreds of years in Ireland.

The attack on Jo Cox was a politically motivated act of violence, but not terrorism.

Terrorism is the use of unprovoked violence against third parties because they refuse to give aid and support in attacking someone else and we would do well to understand this. After all any use of extreme violence causes terror, but we would not refer to an armed robbery where violence was used as a terrorist attack.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"In light of recent terrorist attacks, is it time for police in the UK to be routinely armed? "

They are anyway??

Bobbies on the beat aren't but every notable target will have an armed guard.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"So its all falling apart in Mainland Europe (I avoid the term 'EU' as it starts arguments) and we can see that the French are not really that good at stopping either home grown or foreign terrorists. Neither apparently are Belgians. Germany seem to be able to react but not stop attacks.

I just hope we Brits can keep a sense of balance about all this. We have armed police if necessary but where we are better than everyone else is in our Intelligence (MI5, MI6) capabilities where we stop people before they kill people. When was the last (Islamic) terrorist attack in the UK? 2013 when Lee Rigby was killed by two people in a BMW? And before that? Ignoring a car in the front door of Glasgow airport in 2007 you have to go back 11 years to 2005 and the London bombings where 56 people were killed. Before that it was all IRA bombs.

We are basically an anti-gun society and have led the way in gun control and I would hate to see the ISIS nutters abroad drive us towards the even bigger nutters of the USA gun lobby.

Actually last terrorist attack in UK was the killing of Jo Cox. Politically motivated killing is a terrorist killing. Why does it have to be 'Islamic'? Or are white Christians not capable of being terrorists?"

Sorry I must disagree. Jo Cox was murdered by a deranged man with major mental illness issues who had asked for help and been refused that help. Prior to this attack he had shown no racist or political interests. In fact his brother is mixed race and they got on well. He was a loving son and worked out his disabilities by keeping busy and helping local pensioners in their gardens. It was a murder. Sadly that simple. There was no 'terrorist' element to it at all as he was not part of any known terrorist organisation.

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By *its_n_piecesCouple
over a year ago

jo cox was murdered by a extreme right wing separatist ..... right wingers - basically complete cunts

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Im sure they are equipped enough with their Tasers

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"jo cox was murdered by a extreme right wing separatist ..... right wingers - basically complete cunts"

Throughout history, left wing people and governments have proven to be far better at killing people than the right.

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By *its_n_piecesCouple
over a year ago


"jo cox was murdered by a extreme right wing separatist ..... right wingers - basically complete cunts

Throughout history, left wing people and governments have proven to be far better at killing people than the right. "

despite the fact that that's not a fact, that non-fact didn't stop jo cox mp from being murdered by a right wing separatist did it?

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By *LCC OP   Couple
over a year ago

Cambridge


"jo cox was murdered by a extreme right wing separatist ..... right wingers - basically complete cunts

Throughout history, left wing people and governments have proven to be far better at killing people than the right. "

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"jo cox was murdered by a extreme right wing separatist ..... right wingers - basically complete cunts

Throughout history, left wing people and governments have proven to be far better at killing people than the right.

despite the fact that that's not a fact, that non-fact didn't stop jo cox mp from being murdered by a right wing separatist did it?"

It is a fact, Mao and Stalin were competing to see how many they could kill like two teenagers playing Call of Duty.

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By *its_n_piecesCouple
over a year ago


"It is a fact, Mao and Stalin were competing to see how many they could kill like two teenagers playing Call of Duty. "

dosen't alter the fact that your eronious statement is still complete horse shit though .... and it doesn't alter the fact that jo cox mp was murdered by a right wing separatist either

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"It is a fact, Mao and Stalin were competing to see how many they could kill like two teenagers playing Call of Duty.

dosen't alter the fact that your eronious statement is still complete horse shit though .... and it doesn't alter the fact that jo cox mp was murdered by a right wing separatist either"

Sorry I don't have time to list all the people killed by the far left. Too many hundreds of millions.

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By *its_n_piecesCouple
over a year ago


"Sorry I don't have time to list all the people killed by the far left. Too many hundreds of millions. "

you don't have to, unless you back it up with proof your premise is still complete and utter horse shit

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Sorry I don't have time to list all the people killed by the far left. Too many hundreds of millions.

you don't have to, unless you back it up with proof your premise is still complete and utter horse shit "

Proof is when you pick up a history book and read about Mao, Stalin, Pol Pot, Saddam Hussein and all the other left wing dictators. Sorry if history inconveniences your cuddly view of lefties.

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By *its_n_piecesCouple
over a year ago


"Proof is when you pick up a history book and read about Mao, Stalin, Pol Pot, Saddam Hussein and all the other left wing dictators. Sorry if history inconveniences your cuddly view of lefties. "

that might be true in the pro-right wing russell group colleges but in the real world proof is more than what's printed in a right leaning book ..... so yet another premise that's complete horse shit

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Proof is when you pick up a history book and read about Mao, Stalin, Pol Pot, Saddam Hussein and all the other left wing dictators. Sorry if history inconveniences your cuddly view of lefties.

that might be true in the pro-right wing russell group colleges but in the real world proof is more than what's printed in a right leaning book ..... so yet another premise that's complete horse shit

"

The facts are always a conspiracy to delusional lefties.

Anoher inconvenient fact to your conspiracy theory is that university professors are overwhelmingly more left wing than right.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

sticks & stones

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By *its_n_piecesCouple
over a year ago


"Anoher inconvenient fact to your conspiracy theory is that university professors are overwhelmingly more left wing than right. "

proof?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

• Yes - days of Dixon of Doc Green are GONE!

Gun crime is only going to get worse in this country, likes most things it's only a matter of time before we "catch up" with America - as others here have said if a cop in the UK is faced with an armed person the only thing they can do is sit on the floor and accept their fate - it's now the 21st century, half the world is at war and we need to stop being so soft as it's just not going to work any more.

• Police officers should be peace officers and should not need compelling force to persuade, especially in residential communities,

The 'beat cop' should be a sign of law and order and witness. As far as gathering evidence, peace and police officers can use phones just like anything else. To shoot or hit someone is street justice and should be rarely needed, and not an instant option for people observing and interacting within their own home neighborhoods. It's a throwback of an earlier time to have people in authority capable of being able to force submission on people when they can record what happened and allow the courts to do their job. Need for deadly force is rare and even rarer is it needed without indication of the situation beforehand

• There are many circumstances when police forces function more effectively without being armed.

Police forces are representatives of authority, civil order, and assistance; they should not be seen primarily as forces of violence or repression. In many countries, the police do not routinely carry arms; this is of course famously the case in the United Kingdom. In situations of peaceful crowd control for example, police that are not armed convey the expectation that the demonstration will remain peaceful, while officers bristling with weapons convey exactly the opposite. Of course, police have to be carefully trained to know how to carry themselves without arms and need easy and quick access to weapons if necessary.

• Although there are some areas in which it would be rational to arm police, not all police need to be armed all the time.

Of course, a police in areas of high violence would probably need a gun, a police patrolling a neighborhood or highway patrol should not be armed or at least not have guns at all times on their person. This only breeds violence and a distrust of police, as well as causing some police to take innocent lives, either unintentionally or intentionally, as there are some police that do abuse the privilege of packing heat

• Armed police forces attract the power hungry

I live in the US and have all my life. The police around here get scared when a "civilian" has a gun but expect us not to be scared of them with their guns on their hips unless we're "criminals". They constantly support gun control (which doesn't apply to them) making legally possessing a gun difficult, if not impossible, and banning guns in banks, federal buildings, schools etc. so that we "need" them if and when someone brings in a gun and uses it where it's banned. They make themselves a bigger priority than anyone else, resulting in many innocent people getting directly and indirectly hurt or killed (shooting unarmed people sometimes while they are running away). I'm thinking about buying a gun while I still can, I don't really want a gun, but it seems to be about the only way for the average person to get the police to leave them alone and protect themselves (concealed carry registration). They are given public recognition for things the rest of us do everyday without even a thanks, keeping their egos bloated. They are given paid vacations when they shoot someone and almost never are found to have done anything wrong. I'm seriously considering trying to move to the UK to get away from all this madness (if they don't arm their police too). We've got these short-tempered police with weapons whereas many cool-headed "civilians" can't legally carry a gun or certain other weapons (convicted felons, guilty or not, violent or not) The "civilians" should have the same rights as police. Anyone who thinks every police officer should have a gun without any restrictions should move to the US and ask some of the working poor about the police

• Police need to be feared by criminals and trusted with the lives of citizens

When a police officer walks into a place where they have been called out they always walk In fearing what could happen someone could maybe jump out with a pistol, however in America police know they are going to rule the situation when someone is told to put their hands up they normally do that alot faster with a firearm pointing at them. I agree police shouldn't be classed as violent people but they do need some form of weaponry to ensure the peace sometimes the police can't always fight people that are 50 ft away with a stick

• Yes, in circumstances it is needed.

I support it but the firearm should be in their car at a secure place so no one is able to reach for it. Carrying it around might not be appropriate but carrying it in a car should totally be allowed like in a locked-compartment or something. Firearms incidents are rising in UK day by day and police needs to be able to act properly in those situations. Two police officers were killed with a firearm and they weren't able to respond to the threat. Why? Because they had nothing to respond with. We do not want to see anything like that in the future. I'd also like to add that strict usage permissions should be added to it so we don't see them in every small incident

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By *sianmale89Man
over a year ago

Stockport

Honestly OP there is already Armed response units in the Police force along with also the Armed forces in the event off upcoming /pending threats to British Civilians But I understand what you mean..

I knew a guy through my line off work (which usually has dealings with and works along side the police) who knew an Armed response officer who was left to hang dry over an on duty shooting.

Which he had to defend himself on an internal investigation which lasted more then half a year (I think) he was eventually cleared but he was hesitant to return as he felt his colleagues or anyone else didn't really believe him or stand by him so I think he left his division all together.

That being said the point I'm trying to make is most officers in the U.K. who are NOT in the armed response units MIGHT not feel too comfortable or become hesitant about being armed as there is a big risk/chance they will be taken to the cleaners if they even fire one round and it is seen as not justifiable or wrongful etc..

just my take on it..

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By *LCC OP   Couple
over a year ago

Cambridge

I don't think that there is a need for it myself.

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By *igsteve43Man
over a year ago

derby


"Proof is when you pick up a history book and read about Mao, Stalin, Pol Pot, Saddam Hussein and all the other left wing dictators. Sorry if history inconveniences your cuddly view of lefties.

that might be true in the pro-right wing russell group colleges but in the real world proof is more than what's printed in a right leaning book ..... so yet another premise that's complete horse shit

"

Are you seriously trying to deny that stalin killed over 50,000 people or tha mass graves were not found in the fields of cambodia that china had tanks run people over in tianmenen square that mugabe didnt force white farmers off their land and dissappeared thousands of others because if you are you are just as bad as those who would deny the holocaust

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By *its_n_piecesCouple
over a year ago


"Proof is when you pick up a history book and read about Mao, Stalin, Pol Pot, Saddam Hussein and all the other left wing dictators. Sorry if history inconveniences your cuddly view of lefties.

that might be true in the pro-right wing russell group colleges but in the real world proof is more than what's printed in a right leaning book ..... so yet another premise that's complete horse shit

Are you seriously trying to deny that stalin killed over 50,000 people or tha mass graves were not found in the fields of cambodia that china had tanks run people over in tianmenen square that mugabe didnt force white farmers off their land and dissappeared thousands of others because if you are you are just as bad as those who would deny the holocaust"

no, you've said all that not me

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Proof is when you pick up a history book and read about Mao, Stalin, Pol Pot, Saddam Hussein and all the other left wing dictators. Sorry if history inconveniences your cuddly view of lefties.

that might be true in the pro-right wing russell group colleges but in the real world proof is more than what's printed in a right leaning book ..... so yet another premise that's complete horse shit

The facts are always a conspiracy to delusional lefties.

Anoher inconvenient fact to your conspiracy theory is that university professors are overwhelmingly more left wing than right. "

I don't want to get involved in a personal argument, but I'm not sure this is true. Certainly more university lecturers are politically aware and are good for media soundbites but in my experience of working in academia (in an area one might consider to be traditionally liberal) there are people with all kinds of political views and none.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Anoher inconvenient fact to your conspiracy theory is that university professors are overwhelmingly more left wing than right.

proof?"

I posted a link but got a forum ban for my efforts. You can search this in google:

Moving Further to the Left

Survey finds notable increase in proportion of professors who identify as "far left" or liberal, and declines for all other groups.

Academics, on average, lean to the left. A survey being released today suggests that they are moving even more in that direction.

Among full-time faculty members at four-year colleges and universities, the percentage identifying as "far left" or liberal has increased notably in the last three years, while the percentage identifying in three other political categories has declined. The data come from the University of California at Los Angeles Higher Education Research Institute, which surveys faculty members nationwide every three years on a range of attitudes.

I look forward to your proof that Stalin and Mao did not murder tens of milliions

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Proof is when you pick up a history book and read about Mao, Stalin, Pol Pot, Saddam Hussein and all the other left wing dictators. Sorry if history inconveniences your cuddly view of lefties.

that might be true in the pro-right wing russell group colleges but in the real world proof is more than what's printed in a right leaning book ..... so yet another premise that's complete horse shit

The facts are always a conspiracy to delusional lefties.

Anoher inconvenient fact to your conspiracy theory is that university professors are overwhelmingly more left wing than right.

I don't want to get involved in a personal argument, but I'm not sure this is true. Certainly more university lecturers are politically aware and are good for media soundbites but in my experience of working in academia (in an area one might consider to be traditionally liberal) there are people with all kinds of political views and none. "

See above

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Proof is when you pick up a history book and read about Mao, Stalin, Pol Pot, Saddam Hussein and all the other left wing dictators. Sorry if history inconveniences your cuddly view of lefties.

that might be true in the pro-right wing russell group colleges but in the real world proof is more than what's printed in a right leaning book ..... so yet another premise that's complete horse shit

Are you seriously trying to deny that stalin killed over 50,000 people or tha mass graves were not found in the fields of cambodia that china had tanks run people over in tianmenen square that mugabe didnt force white farmers off their land and dissappeared thousands of others because if you are you are just as bad as those who would deny the holocaust"

50,000!!! Between him and Hitler they killed more than 20m Ukrainians alone!!!!

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By *its_n_piecesCouple
over a year ago


"I look forward to your proof that Stalin and Mao did not murder tens of milliions"

you wasted your time .... i didn'y imply that stalin and mao didn't kill people ..... i asked you for proof of you wild statement that they killed more people than right wingers - basically complete cunts

the data i found from your google suggestion .... all about american institutions, nothing about british or specifically russell group

you better let the OP have their thread back now .... end transmission

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By *iamondjoeMan
over a year ago

Glastonbury


"In light of recent terrorist attacks, is it time for police in the UK to be routinely armed? "

No

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"I look forward to your proof that Stalin and Mao did not murder tens of milliions

you wasted your time .... i didn'y imply that stalin and mao didn't kill people ..... i asked you for proof of you wild statement that they killed more people than right wingers - basically complete cunts

the data i found from your google suggestion .... all about american institutions, nothing about british or specifically russell group

"

Yes I'm sure British universities are uniquely right wing

It's sad that you can't admit when you're wrong, everyone else has to provide proof for their views but you never have a scrap of proof for your own. I guess that comes with the territory for the looney left.

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By *its_n_piecesCouple
over a year ago


"I look forward to your proof that Stalin and Mao did not murder tens of milliions

you wasted your time .... i didn'y imply that stalin and mao didn't kill people ..... i asked you for proof of you wild statement that they killed more people than right wingers - basically complete cunts

the data i found from your google suggestion .... all about american institutions, nothing about british or specifically russell group

Yes I'm sure British universities are uniquely right wing

It's sad that you can't admit when you're wrong, everyone else has to provide proof for their views but you never have a scrap of proof for your own. I guess that comes with the territory for the looney left. "

it's not me who makes rash statements though is it .... so deal with it

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"I look forward to your proof that Stalin and Mao did not murder tens of milliions

you wasted your time .... i didn'y imply that stalin and mao didn't kill people ..... i asked you for proof of you wild statement that they killed more people than right wingers - basically complete cunts

the data i found from your google suggestion .... all about american institutions, nothing about british or specifically russell group

Yes I'm sure British universities are uniquely right wing

It's sad that you can't admit when you're wrong, everyone else has to provide proof for their views but you never have a scrap of proof for your own. I guess that comes with the territory for the looney left.

it's not me who makes rash statements though is it .... so deal with it"

Deal with the facts

- your left wing hero's killed more people than the right wing dictators, the figures are in all the history books for you to read

- the Russell group teaches a syllabus based on all the international evidence, a lot of which comes from USA

- the USA has a proven left wing bias in its academics, there's no evidence or reason to think the UK is different

So there is no conspiracy, you're just wrong. You go around calling every right winger "cunts" but it's only because you are deluded.

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By *its_n_piecesCouple
over a year ago


"

Deal with the facts

- your left wing hero's killed more people than the right wing dictators, the figures are in all the history books for you to read

- the Russell group teaches a syllabus based on all the international evidence, a lot of which comes from USA

- the USA has a proven left wing bias in its academics, there's no evidence or reason to think the UK is different

So there is no conspiracy, you're just wrong. You go around calling every right winger "cunts" but it's only because you are deluded. "

there you go again .... just back up the statements you're trying to pass off as fact with some proof .... it's pretty simple and it's what every institution of higher education teaches it's students if you haven't forgotten already.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"

Deal with the facts

- your left wing hero's killed more people than the right wing dictators, the figures are in all the history books for you to read

- the Russell group teaches a syllabus based on all the international evidence, a lot of which comes from USA

- the USA has a proven left wing bias in its academics, there's no evidence or reason to think the UK is different

So there is no conspiracy, you're just wrong. You go around calling every right winger "cunts" but it's only because you are deluded.

there you go again .... just back up the statements you're trying to pass off as fact with some proof .... it's pretty simple and it's what every institution of higher education teaches it's students if you haven't forgotten already."

What facts did the institution they released you from give you to back up your statement that all right wingers are cunts?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I think it!s a pr excercise.. Get cops on tv with guns and motorcycles for pics to appear that something is being done. The real work is intelligence.. Jumping on plotters before they do anything. Thats where the french have failed in my opinion.. Not acting on intelligence

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By *its_n_piecesCouple
over a year ago


"What facts did the institution they released you from give you to back up your statement that all right wingers are cunts?"

where did i say all? you're being crass now ..... are you really a right winger?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"What facts did the institution they released you from give you to back up your statement that all right wingers are cunts?

where did i say all? you're being crass now ..... are you really a right winger? "

Your earlier post on here about Jo Cox being murdered, along with just about every thread you post on.

Now if you can just return back under the bridge. Thanks.

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By *its_n_piecesCouple
over a year ago


"What facts did the institution they released you from give you to back up your statement that all right wingers are cunts?

where did i say all? you're being crass now ..... are you really a right winger?

Your earlier post on here about Jo Cox being murdered, along with just about every thread you post on."

wrong .... try re-reading my post

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By *igsteve43Man
over a year ago

derby


"jo cox was murdered by a extreme right wing separatist ..... right wingers - basically complete cunts"

Seeming as your now denying saying this i went back through the thread and surprise surprise its there in print

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"jo cox was murdered by a extreme right wing separatist ..... right wingers - basically complete cunts

Seeming as your now denying saying this i went back through the thread and surprise surprise its there in print"

He's deny saying "all" right wingers are cunts because he says "average". It's basically because he lost the arguement about his little russell group conspiracy so he's clinging on to anything that makes him feel that he's actually right.

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By *its_n_piecesCouple
over a year ago


"jo cox was murdered by a extreme right wing separatist ..... right wingers - basically complete cunts

Seeming as your now denying saying this i went back through the thread and surprise surprise its there in print"

where in that scentence does it say "all right wingers are cunts"? .... which is what i'm accused of saying. it doesn't does it .... would you like a damp cloth for that egg on your visage?

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By *its_n_piecesCouple
over a year ago


"jo cox was murdered by a extreme right wing separatist ..... right wingers - basically complete cunts

Seeming as your now denying saying this i went back through the thread and surprise surprise its there in print

He's deny saying "all" right wingers are cunts because he says "average". It's basically because he lost the arguement about his little russell group conspiracy so he's clinging on to anything that makes him feel that he's actually right. "

what conspiracy? .... again you just make shit up for your own purpose.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"jo cox was murdered by a extreme right wing separatist ..... right wingers - basically complete cunts

Seeming as your now denying saying this i went back through the thread and surprise surprise its there in print

He's deny saying "all" right wingers are cunts because he says "average". It's basically because he lost the arguement about his little russell group conspiracy so he's clinging on to anything that makes him feel that he's actually right.

what conspiracy? .... again you just make shit up for your own purpose."

Quote: "that might be true in the pro-right wing russell group colleges but in the real world proof is more than what's printed in a right leaning book"

That's your conspiracy. You have no evidence Russell Group is right wing, other than everyone being right of your own personal view. I have evidence that universities have a left wing bias.

My evidence comes from the US, where the Russell Group gets about half it's text books.

You'd know this if you actually went to a russell group university.

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By *igsteve43Man
over a year ago

derby


"jo cox was murdered by a extreme right wing separatist ..... right wingers - basically complete cunts

Seeming as your now denying saying this i went back through the thread and surprise surprise its there in print

where in that scentence does it say "all right wingers are cunts"? .... which is what i'm accused of saying. it doesn't does it .... would you like a damp cloth for that egg on your visage?"

Well actually if you had listened in your english class, you would know this : you have not put some right wingers just right wingers so you imply you mean all and by putting the score you are then defining all right wingers as cunts

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By *its_n_piecesCouple
over a year ago


"Well actually if you had listened in your english class, you would know this : you have not put some right wingers just right wingers so you imply you mean all and by putting the score you are then defining all right wingers as cunts"

i implied nothing .... on the contrary, it is you who has erroneously inferred something

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By *its_n_piecesCouple
over a year ago


"Quote: "that might be true in the pro-right wing russell group colleges but in the real world proof is more than what's printed in a right leaning book"

That's your conspiracy. "

yeah man, that's like real david ike shit innit?


"You have no evidence Russell Group is right wing, other than everyone being right of your own personal view. I have evidence that universities have a left wing bias. "

within the forum rules we currently have exactly the same amount of evidence as each other.


"My evidence comes from the US, where the Russell Group gets about half it's text books. "

so evidence about the political leanings of american colleges is transferable evidence as to the political leanings of british universities now is it? laughable

end transmission .....

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Quote: "that might be true in the pro-right wing russell group colleges but in the real world proof is more than what's printed in a right leaning book"

That's your conspiracy.

yeah man, that's like real david ike shit innit?

You have no evidence Russell Group is right wing, other than everyone being right of your own personal view. I have evidence that universities have a left wing bias.

within the forum rules we currently have exactly the same amount of evidence as each other.

My evidence comes from the US, where the Russell Group gets about half it's text books.

so evidence about the political leanings of american colleges is transferable evidence as to the political leanings of british universities now is it? laughable

end transmission .....

"

As ever, no evidence from yourself to support your views.

All you do is try and poke holes in other people's evidence when your own is absent, still at least you get to follow in the footsteps of Marx in that respect.

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By *its_n_piecesCouple
over a year ago


"

All you do is try and poke holes in other people's evidence "

i haven't poked holes in your evidence .... i have merely acknowledged that you supply no evidence

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"

All you do is try and poke holes in other people's evidence

i haven't poked holes in your evidence .... i have merely acknowledged that you supply no evidence"

The average, reasonably intelligent reader of the thread can see that I have and that you have not. I do not care about your semantic arguements so won't be replying again.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Well actually if you had listened in your english class, you would know this : you have not put some right wingers just right wingers so you imply you mean all and by putting the score you are then defining all right wingers as cunts

i implied nothing .... on the contrary, it is you who has erroneously inferred something"

An implied term is as binding as an expressed term.

Although I will admit to one error. It isn't a bridge you need to go back under, its a rock.

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By *iamondjoeMan
over a year ago

Glastonbury


"In light of recent terrorist attacks, is it time for police in the UK to be routinely armed? "

No

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