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"Is there a genuine need for this railway?" . If we're doing it.... Let's do it big!. I want maglef 400 mph! Edinburgh to London stopping at Manchester Birmingham and on to Paris.... And the south of France!. . . We need to dream bigger and stop saying it can't be done | |||
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"Is there a genuine need for this railway?. If we're doing it.... Let's do it big!. I want maglef 400 mph! Edinburgh to London stopping at Manchester Birmingham and on to Paris.... And the south of France!. . . We need to dream bigger and stop saying it can't be done" Should we just build concorde again instead? Would be able to fly anywhere then.. Instead of crawling at a poxy 400mph | |||
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"Anyone familiar with… "If you build it, they will come." ??? " Sorry but its " if you build it he will come " | |||
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"Is there a genuine need for this railway?" No, absolutely not apart from back handers | |||
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"As I said not saving time off a journey from London to derby but adding to it as for wider picture only phase green lighted so far and even that's now stopping at crewe so to reach Manchester will have to catch train from there so again may as well just catch normal train and proposed extension to Newcastle and Edinburgh depends on success of phase 1 , seeming as that will never pay for itself cannot see it happening We would be so much better spending the money upgrading current network" we did that with the West Coast Upgrade. It took years was stupidly expensive, caused years of disruption and the thing is full 10 years later. It is better to add the capacity with anew line and if we are building a new line it isn't that much more expensive to make it High Speed. One thing HS2 is NOT about and that is just for saving 15 minutes somewhere. It is a bigger impact than that. With high speed passenger trains on HS2 and maybe high speed freight in the night West Coast and East Coast Main Lines will have more paths for commuter and heavy freight traffic. | |||
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"Yes there is a need. Not to knock 10 minutes of journeys between 2 already close locations - but to connect the country properly. Edinburgh - Newcastle - Leeds - Nottingham - Birmingham - London " this is almost inadvertly the answer... 1) hs2 and hs1 should connect.... whats the point having one at st pancras.. and having the other starting 100m away in euston.... that way the north gets direct connections with europe... 2) we want it in the north.. but people aren't sure in the south... so start building it from the north down..... route 1 almost as mentioned (no nottingham stop).... route 2.... liverpool - manchester - birmingham - london plus then if you fill in the manchester leeds bit.... you then have a northern hs route if you also want to run train edinburgh to liverpool...  | |||
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"A complete waste of money,the government should invest in the rail and road services in the north they are discusting.Travel between Liverpool,Manchester,and Leeds is really bad that needs doing and HS2 will not help that. The current rail srvises are fine between the north and the south but need to be more frequent.it is political bullshit in my view." Therein is the problem. WCML is at capacity so why not build something that can double or treble capacity instead of causing delays and reduced capacity for the next ten years whilst upgrading the existing line to give at most a final 10%-15% increase in capacity? If a true increase in capacity is needed then an entirely new line is needed and if a new line is to be built, why build it with 20th century technology if 21st century technology, carrying capacity and speed is available? | |||
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"A complete waste of money,the government should invest in the rail and road services in the north they are discusting.Travel between Liverpool,Manchester,and Leeds is really bad that needs doing and HS2 will not help that. The current rail srvises are fine between the north and the south but need to be more frequent.it is political bullshit in my view. Therein is the problem. WCML is at capacity so why not build something that can double or treble capacity instead of causing delays and reduced capacity for the next ten years whilst upgrading the existing line to give at most a final 10%-15% increase in capacity? If a true increase in capacity is needed then an entirely new line is needed and if a new line is to be built, why build it with 20th century technology if 21st century technology, carrying capacity and speed is available?" This! | |||
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"A complete waste of money,the government should invest in the rail and road services in the north they are discusting.Travel between Liverpool,Manchester,and Leeds is really bad that needs doing and HS2 will not help that. The current rail srvises are fine between the north and the south but need to be more frequent.it is political bullshit in my view." I could give a very long list of improvements in the North of England that we won't ever see in East Anglia where we get 3rd hand hand me downs. You have had two new Franchises, hundreds of new trains, electrification, new stations, tunnels and track. Please don't play the 'North is hard done by' now. Even the Franchises are run by local Councils and the DfT from Leeds now ... | |||
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"Yes whole project is a joke, it will be years before it is ever built politicos will continue to fart around. We would be better placed seriously upgrading our telecoms infrastructure, how can it be that we still have communities that are still on dial up, we are leaving certain parts of our country behind" Because people insist in living in butt-fuck nowhere and it's not commercially viable to supply them there | |||
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"Yes whole project is a joke, it will be years before it is ever built politicos will continue to fart around. We would be better placed seriously upgrading our telecoms infrastructure, how can it be that we still have communities that are still on dial up, we are leaving certain parts of our country behind Because people insist in living in butt-fuck nowhere and it's not commercially viable to supply them there " Perhaps butt-fuck nowhere allows you to have huge homes with acres or land that you would have to pay £10m plus in London (without the land)  | |||
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"Yes whole project is a joke, it will be years before it is ever built politicos will continue to fart around. We would be better placed seriously upgrading our telecoms infrastructure, how can it be that we still have communities that are still on dial up, we are leaving certain parts of our country behind Because people insist in living in butt-fuck nowhere and it's not commercially viable to supply them there Perhaps butt-fuck nowhere allows you to have huge homes with acres or land that you would have to pay £10m plus in London (without the land) "And the reason it's cheap is because you have to live with dial up! If it had all the benefits of London then it would cost the same as London. | |||
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"Yes whole project is a joke, it will be years before it is ever built politicos will continue to fart around. We would be better placed seriously upgrading our telecoms infrastructure, how can it be that we still have communities that are still on dial up, we are leaving certain parts of our country behind Because people insist in living in butt-fuck nowhere and it's not commercially viable to supply them there Perhaps butt-fuck nowhere allows you to have huge homes with acres or land that you would have to pay £10m plus in London (without the land)
And the reason it's cheap is because you have to live with dial up! If it had all the benefits of London then it would cost the same as London. "lol come on now we have had fibre optic connection for 16 months now . although just in the home, nothing connected to the stables so far | |||
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"Is there a genuine need for this railway?" Yes! Today and Tuesday the inside of trains were hotter than it is legal to transport cattle in. Our infrastructure is shit and needs improving. | |||
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"It must be EU-driven otherwise why would a Conservative government i.e. Cameron and Osborne which preached austerity push through a £50bn line that shaves off a whole TWENTY MINUTES on a trip to Birmingham!? " The existing network is at capacity and that is the end of the story really. Yes, capacity can be increased by another 10% to15% by causing disruption and reduced capacity over the next ten years by increasing platform sizes but demand will be way over 15% more in the years time. The answer to increasing capacity is a new rail network which would be stupid to build with old technology when newer, faster and better trains are now available. Result - 300% increase in capacity through use of modern infrastructure and train systems. | |||
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"Back in the day when the M1 was built my gran said people will never need it. 30 years on she said my god where does all the traffic come from thank goodness they built it. !0 years on she has passed on and now its 8 lanes wide. Maybe we will see hs2 in the same light." £180m spent already on 'administration', not a single track laid and of course it won't be running from Christmas Eve to Boxing Day... | |||
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"Back in the day when the M1 was built my gran said people will never need it. 30 years on she said my god where does all the traffic come from thank goodness they built it. !0 years on she has passed on and now its 8 lanes wide. Maybe we will see hs2 in the same light. £180m spent already on 'administration', not a single track laid and of course it won't be running from Christmas Eve to Boxing Day..." Care to clarify 'administration'? Have you ever run any infrastructure projects? If you have you will know the masses amount of H & S, Risk Assessments, Surveying, Property Ownership, Compensation, Consultation etc that are essential in our modern society. 100 years ago people were just moved out of the way ... And of course no track has been laid because Parliament has not passed the Bill authorising it TO be laid! | |||
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"Back in the day when the M1 was built my gran said people will never need it. 30 years on she said my god where does all the traffic come from thank goodness they built it. !0 years on she has passed on and now its 8 lanes wide. Maybe we will see hs2 in the same light. £180m spent already on 'administration', not a single track laid and of course it won't be running from Christmas Eve to Boxing Day... Care to clarify 'administration'? Have you ever run any infrastructure projects? If you have you will know the masses amount of H & S, Risk Assessments, Surveying, Property Ownership, Compensation, Consultation etc that are essential in our modern society. 100 years ago people were just moved out of the way ... And of course no track has been laid because Parliament has not passed the Bill authorising it TO be laid!" Oh, hang on a minute...this is the government preaching FUCKING AUSTERITY!!! BUT it's got a load of fucking taxpayers cash to splurge for its shareholding buddies to have endless meetings about...more fucking meetings at...£££££s per hour consultancy rates! Six independent inquiries said there was no business case for the project...all conveniently ignored by successive governments!? | |||
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"Back in the day when the M1 was built my gran said people will never need it. 30 years on she said my god where does all the traffic come from thank goodness they built it. !0 years on she has passed on and now its 8 lanes wide. Maybe we will see hs2 in the same light. £180m spent already on 'administration', not a single track laid and of course it won't be running from Christmas Eve to Boxing Day... Care to clarify 'administration'? Have you ever run any infrastructure projects? If you have you will know the masses amount of H & S, Risk Assessments, Surveying, Property Ownership, Compensation, Consultation etc that are essential in our modern society. 100 years ago people were just moved out of the way ... And of course no track has been laid because Parliament has not passed the Bill authorising it TO be laid! Oh, hang on a minute...this is the government preaching FUCKING AUSTERITY!!! BUT it's got a load of fucking taxpayers cash to splurge for its shareholding buddies to have endless meetings about...more fucking meetings at...£££££s per hour consultancy rates! Six independent inquiries said there was no business case for the project...all conveniently ignored by successive governments!? " Well moving on from the political aspects and getting back to HS2 do please explain to us how we are going to manage the huge increase in rail travel we are seeing? And also explain why spending on UK infrastructure is clearly a bad idea? Should we not build new railways? Should we just build roads? Or no roads at all? | |||
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"Back in the day when the M1 was built my gran said people will never need it. 30 years on she said my god where does all the traffic come from thank goodness they built it. !0 years on she has passed on and now its 8 lanes wide. Maybe we will see hs2 in the same light. £180m spent already on 'administration', not a single track laid and of course it won't be running from Christmas Eve to Boxing Day... Care to clarify 'administration'? Have you ever run any infrastructure projects? If you have you will know the masses amount of H & S, Risk Assessments, Surveying, Property Ownership, Compensation, Consultation etc that are essential in our modern society. 100 years ago people were just moved out of the way ... And of course no track has been laid because Parliament has not passed the Bill authorising it TO be laid! Oh, hang on a minute...this is the government preaching FUCKING AUSTERITY!!! BUT it's got a load of fucking taxpayers cash to splurge for its shareholding buddies to have endless meetings about...more fucking meetings at...£££££s per hour consultancy rates! Six independent inquiries said there was no business case for the project...all conveniently ignored by successive governments!? " Where are these independent enquires? With an ever increasing demand for public transport and a finite amount of potential upgrade space on the WCML what other options can there be? | |||
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"The taxpayer's Alliance predicts that based on previous projections from the Institute of Economic Affairs, the total bill for HS2 will spiral to at least £88billion by the time it is completed. Meanwhile Chief Executive Simon Kirby is raking in £750,000 p.a. while 47 staff earn over £150,000!? Cameron's and Osborne's chums...all in it together! Speaking in 2013 Patrick McLoughlin, the Transport Secretary said that its (HS2) speed is “almost irrelevant”. The real point of building it, he said, was to create extra capacity on an overcrowded network. So, axed by Dr Beeching, the southern section of the Great Central Railway has been closed since 1966. Its express trains ran from London to Rugby, Leicester, Nottingham, Sheffield and Leeds, with a branch to Manchester: in other words, most of the destinations planned for HS2. Complete with largely intact trackbed, bridges, embankments and cuttings, in some places, all they need to do is cut down some trees and re-lay the track????????????????????????????????? " That will be the people who are anti HS2 then? Not quite 'independent' as you claim. And that 'report' was totally rubbished by the industry. It included some tram system somewhere which is nothing to do with HS2. And as for your fantasy about the GCR .... anyone driving up the M1 past Catthorpe and Leicester will see that trackbed in the undergrowth on the left. And there is still a bridge over the M1. And it is all totally useless for a High Speed line and will cost more to replace the old trackbeds and than to build new. And what about the industry and homes that have been built across the trackbed? And the huge embankments that have been flattened? By all means throw grenades at British Rail for their vandalism. It was not Beeching that ripped up trackbeds he just stopped services. I agree had the GCR been kept intact it would have provided a massively important freight line as it was built to a bigger gauge. But to even suggest the GCR is now a viable option today is just unrealistic. | |||
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"The taxpayer's Alliance predicts that based on previous projections from the Institute of Economic Affairs, the total bill for HS2 will spiral to at least £88billion by the time it is completed. Meanwhile Chief Executive Simon Kirby is raking in £750,000 p.a. while 47 staff earn over £150,000!? Cameron's and Osborne's chums...all in it together! Speaking in 2013 Patrick McLoughlin, the Transport Secretary said that its (HS2) speed is “almost irrelevant”. The real point of building it, he said, was to create extra capacity on an overcrowded network. So, axed by Dr Beeching, the southern section of the Great Central Railway has been closed since 1966. Its express trains ran from London to Rugby, Leicester, Nottingham, Sheffield and Leeds, with a branch to Manchester: in other words, most of the destinations planned for HS2. Complete with largely intact trackbed, bridges, embankments and cuttings, in some places, all they need to do is cut down some trees and re-lay the track????????????????????????????????? That will be the people who are anti HS2 then? Not quite 'independent' as you claim. And that 'report' was totally rubbished by the industry. It included some tram system somewhere which is nothing to do with HS2. And as for your fantasy about the GCR .... anyone driving up the M1 past Catthorpe and Leicester will see that trackbed in the undergrowth on the left. And there is still a bridge over the M1. And it is all totally useless for a High Speed line and will cost more to replace the old trackbeds and than to build new. And what about the industry and homes that have been built across the trackbed? And the huge embankments that have been flattened? By all means throw grenades at British Rail for their vandalism. It was not Beeching that ripped up trackbeds he just stopped services. I agree had the GCR been kept intact it would have provided a massively important freight line as it was built to a bigger gauge. But to even suggest the GCR is now a viable option today is just unrealistic. " As McLaughlin admitted...WE DON'T NEED A HIGH SPEED RAIL LINE! But I'm enjoying your HS2 £88billion train set fantasy...numbers which you haven't disputed!? And I admire your confidence in the project... so, let's put our money where our mouth is... how much are YOU PERSONALLY investing in HS2? | |||
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"The taxpayer's Alliance predicts that based on previous projections from the Institute of Economic Affairs, the total bill for HS2 will spiral to at least £88billion by the time it is completed. Meanwhile Chief Executive Simon Kirby is raking in £750,000 p.a. while 47 staff earn over £150,000!? Cameron's and Osborne's chums...all in it together! Speaking in 2013 Patrick McLoughlin, the Transport Secretary said that its (HS2) speed is “almost irrelevant”. The real point of building it, he said, was to create extra capacity on an overcrowded network. So, axed by Dr Beeching, the southern section of the Great Central Railway has been closed since 1966. Its express trains ran from London to Rugby, Leicester, Nottingham, Sheffield and Leeds, with a branch to Manchester: in other words, most of the destinations planned for HS2. Complete with largely intact trackbed, bridges, embankments and cuttings, in some places, all they need to do is cut down some trees and re-lay the track????????????????????????????????? That will be the people who are anti HS2 then? Not quite 'independent' as you claim. And that 'report' was totally rubbished by the industry. It included some tram system somewhere which is nothing to do with HS2. And as for your fantasy about the GCR .... anyone driving up the M1 past Catthorpe and Leicester will see that trackbed in the undergrowth on the left. And there is still a bridge over the M1. And it is all totally useless for a High Speed line and will cost more to replace the old trackbeds and than to build new. And what about the industry and homes that have been built across the trackbed? And the huge embankments that have been flattened? By all means throw grenades at British Rail for their vandalism. It was not Beeching that ripped up trackbeds he just stopped services. I agree had the GCR been kept intact it would have provided a massively important freight line as it was built to a bigger gauge. But to even suggest the GCR is now a viable option today is just unrealistic. As McLaughlin admitted...WE DON'T NEED A HIGH SPEED RAIL LINE! But I'm enjoying your HS2 £88billion train set fantasy...numbers which you haven't disputed!? And I admire your confidence in the project... so, let's put our money where our mouth is... how much are YOU PERSONALLY investing in HS2?" Ridiculous argument whoever it is directed at. The point about HS2 is that it will be modern and high capacity. The speed itself increased capacity. What really is the point in building something new with old technology? Cars, planes and everything that we use in life is modern and 21st century and do why not build a rail network worthy of the 21st Century? Pretty pointless looking to build something with 1950's technology. | |||
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"The taxpayer's Alliance predicts that based on previous projections from the Institute of Economic Affairs, the total bill for HS2 will spiral to at least £88billion by the time it is completed. Meanwhile Chief Executive Simon Kirby is raking in £750,000 p.a. while 47 staff earn over £150,000!? Cameron's and Osborne's chums...all in it together! Speaking in 2013 Patrick McLoughlin, the Transport Secretary said that its (HS2) speed is “almost irrelevant”. The real point of building it, he said, was to create extra capacity on an overcrowded network. So, axed by Dr Beeching, the southern section of the Great Central Railway has been closed since 1966. Its express trains ran from London to Rugby, Leicester, Nottingham, Sheffield and Leeds, with a branch to Manchester: in other words, most of the destinations planned for HS2. Complete with largely intact trackbed, bridges, embankments and cuttings, in some places, all they need to do is cut down some trees and re-lay the track????????????????????????????????? That will be the people who are anti HS2 then? Not quite 'independent' as you claim. And that 'report' was totally rubbished by the industry. It included some tram system somewhere which is nothing to do with HS2. And as for your fantasy about the GCR .... anyone driving up the M1 past Catthorpe and Leicester will see that trackbed in the undergrowth on the left. And there is still a bridge over the M1. And it is all totally useless for a High Speed line and will cost more to replace the old trackbeds and than to build new. And what about the industry and homes that have been built across the trackbed? And the huge embankments that have been flattened? By all means throw grenades at British Rail for their vandalism. It was not Beeching that ripped up trackbeds he just stopped services. I agree had the GCR been kept intact it would have provided a massively important freight line as it was built to a bigger gauge. But to even suggest the GCR is now a viable option today is just unrealistic. As McLaughlin admitted...WE DON'T NEED A HIGH SPEED RAIL LINE! But I'm enjoying your HS2 £88billion train set fantasy...numbers which you haven't disputed!? And I admire your confidence in the project... so, let's put our money where our mouth is... how much are YOU PERSONALLY investing in HS2? Ridiculous argument whoever it is directed at. The point about HS2 is that it will be modern and high capacity. The speed itself increased capacity. What really is the point in building something new with old technology? Cars, planes and everything that we use in life is modern and 21st century and do why not build a rail network worthy of the 21st Century? Pretty pointless looking to build something with 1950's technology. " If they fully electrified the midland mainline the journey from london to derby would be cut by ten minutes only five less than hs2 was cut off a journey from london to toton but factor in the drive from toton to derby and hs2 would take longer so to the people of derby it is a white elephant Also as the phase 1 route will now end at crewe it will not make the journey to manchester any quicker either and as actually as most capacity problems are on local cross country trains and mostly caused by a lack of carriages hs2 will not solve those issues either Scrap this and we could build three hinckley points without any foreign investment | |||
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" As McLaughlin admitted...WE DON'T NEED A HIGH SPEED RAIL LINE!" Except of course McLaughlin never actually said that did he? Got the source of the quote for us? He has always said it is about capacity and if you are building a new line then you may as well build it High Speed. " But I'm enjoying your HS2 £88billion train set fantasy...numbers which you haven't disputed!?" I neither agreed or disputed. I was ignoring the sheer stupidity of it. But if you want a rebuttal lets ask the NAO shall we? Their latest report on HS2 published June this year says despite challenges it is doing OK and that the budget is some £55 Billion (including Treasury Contingency of some £10 Billion) which delivers the two phases, the trains and the maintenance depots. You said there was no Business Case? well the NAo has looked at something like a Business case because it came up with these CBRs... 1.8:1 is the current benefit–cost ratio for the full programme excluding wider economic impacts 2.2:1 current benefit–cost ratio for the full programme including wider economic impacts So there IS a Business Case, it has been independently audited (twice by the NAO) and it is within the budget quoted above. It makes your comments look rather exaggerated. But its available here: https://www.nao.org.uk/wp-content/uploads/2016/06/Progress-with-preparations-for-High-Speed-2-Summary-1.pdf " And I admire your confidence in the project... so, let's put our money where our mouth is... how much are YOU PERSONALLY investing in HS2?" Oh I am putting some £55.7 Billion into. Along with you and every other tax payer ... D'UH!  | |||
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"Complete with largely intact trackbed, bridges, embankments and cuttings, in some places, all they need to do is cut down some trees and re-lay the track????????????????????????????????? "  You've gotta love someone who posts on a debate thread like this without having done even the most basic of research on the argument they are regurgitating from who-knows-where!
The GCR didn't go anywhere near most of the important places that HS2 will serve - Birmingham and Manchester were nowhere near it for example. The route is not aligned for high speed running and passes through far more populated areas than HS2 will, so more disruption and demolition (which I thought was one of the key things people are protesting about?) The formation has been comprehensively built over in many key places - anyone who's been to the Victoria Shopping Centre in the heart of Nottingham probably wouldn't recognise it as an old railway line for example! The GC also joined the surviving network near Aylesbury - so what precisely would you do with all the extra trains arriving from your reopened route onto the congested Aylesbury-Marylebone section? | |||
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"Complete with largely intact trackbed, bridges, embankments and cuttings, in some places, all they need to do is cut down some trees and re-lay the track????????????????????????????????? You've gotta love someone who posts on a debate thread like this without having done even the most basic of research on the argument they are regurgitating from who-knows-where!
The GCR didn't go anywhere near most of the important places that HS2 will serve - Birmingham and Manchester were nowhere near it for example. The route is not aligned for high speed running and passes through far more populated areas than HS2 will, so more disruption and demolition (which I thought was one of the key things people are protesting about?) The formation has been comprehensively built over in many key places - anyone who's been to the Victoria Shopping Centre in the heart of Nottingham probably wouldn't recognise it as an old railway line for example! The GC also joined the surviving network near Aylesbury - so what precisely would you do with all the extra trains arriving from your reopened route onto the congested Aylesbury-Marylebone section?"2 excellent responses ..
How anyone can make out an infrastructure project started by Labour, continued under a Tory / LibDem Coalition and now a Tory Government can be seen as 'political' and lacks scrutiny beats me.
Whether people like Rail Privatisation and the Franchise system or not it has delivered a doubling of passengers (who now actually pay in more than the taxpayer), a near complete replacement of rolling stock with the introduction of thousands of new trains, station rebuilds, track infrastructure upgrades and electrification. The result of this is that all Main Lines are now at capacity. And it is only with expensive new digital systems controlling trains that we are squeezing more out of our Victorian built railways.
The UK needs new more capacity with new railway lines it is as simple as that. And what some forget to mention is that moving fast express trains onto HS2 will release more slots for commuter and stopping services on West Coast, Midland and East Coast Main Lines. So the benefits are NOT 'just for the rich to save 10 minutes'. | |||
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"Carnage at a meeting in Doncaster today as nimby's get loco " And the daft thing is the meeting is part of HS2s Consultation process on a new route they have found as result of other NIMBYs objecting to the original route and the fact it went to Meadowhall and not the centre of Sheffield. Two issues the new route addresses. Can't please all the people all the time ..  | |||
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"Carnage at a meeting in Doncaster today as nimby's get loco And the daft thing is the meeting is part of HS2s Consultation process on a new route they have found as result of other NIMBYs objecting to the original route and the fact it went to Meadowhall and not the centre of Sheffield. Two issues the new route addresses. Can't please all the people all the time .. "It does make for a funny clip though. Like WWE for the over 90's. I'd like to give that stupid woman a chair shot too. | |||
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