FabSwingers.com forum: Scottish referendum next year

By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

Nicola sturgeon has said she would consider a second referendum on scottish independence as early as next year if necessary.

It could happen if the UK's government started the formal process of leaving the EU without scotland's position being safeguarded. what is your thoughts? I think it is good news. Cos why should they live with a result they all voted no on.

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By *tillup4funMan
over a year ago

Wakefield

"Nicola sturgeon has said she would consider a second referendum on scottish independence as early as next year if necessary.

They did,nt ALL vote no 1.2 million voted to leave more than a million more did,nt vote at all don't these people matter then.

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By *ity Slickers PartiesCouple (MM)
over a year ago

Milan, Italy

At least it will give a year preparation from whom want's to stay IN or OUT they can simply swap places from England to Scotland and vice versa?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

The SNP live in Planet Zog and think every twist and turn in our national politics is an excuse to re-run the Indy thing. This latest bluster is a smokescreen to hide the simple fact that the SNP are bankrupting Scotland. And we English picked up the £15 Billion bill last year. They have all the powers that were promised but still want to talk about 'Process' rather than have their policies and results examined. well this year its the Scots who will be paying that £15 Billion not us. And THEN see them squeal for independence....

To be honest many of us are now getting rather fed up with her and her manipulation of facts into stupidity and endless IndyRef demands. Can someone tell me why Scotland is more important above everyone else?

The people of Scotland voted to Remain in the UK knowing for some 18 months before there would be an EU Referendum. To say they were misled shows the depths to which the SNP will sink. The EU referendum was not the General Election (out of which they did disproportionately well), it was a Binary vote where my vote in England was as valid as hers in Scotland. It was a simple national vote. To create 'countries' is a political manipulation. To think Scotland can remain in the EU and be part of the UK outside is just pure stupidity. I hope Mrs May is just amusing Sturgeon as anything else will seriously annoy many in the rest of the UK.

If Scotland wants out of the UK fine by me but the EU doesn't want another money grabbing failure on its books after losing its second biggest contributor. We would just save another £15 Billion on top of the £13 Billion from the EU.

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By *lik and PaulCouple
over a year ago

cahoots

"At least it will give a year preparation from whom want's to stay IN or OUT they can simply swap places from England to Scotland and vice versa?

Good plan

.... Although of course an independent Scotland is unlikely to fulfil the criteria to join the EU unless they change the rules.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

" Cos why should they live with a result they all voted no on. "

For the same reason I had to live with a Labour Government I never voted for and which was kept in power by the Scottish voters in later years. Hell half the Cabinet were Scottish!

Its called Democracy. You can't just take the bits when you win and leave them when you lose.

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By *horehouseCouple
over a year ago

dissatisfied

Good luck to the Scottish people hope they achieve their goals ..because the never will under Westminster rule ..

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By *horehouseCouple
over a year ago

dissatisfied

" Cos why should they live with a result they all voted no on.

For the same reason I had to live with a Labour Government I never voted for and which was kept in power by the Scottish voters in later years. Hell half the Cabinet were Scottish!

Its called Democracy. You can't just take the bits when you win and leave them when you lose."

Ah a bit like cherry-picking the best bits of the EU ...

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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

Theresa said she wont trigger article 50, until she have listened to what the scotish government have to say..... this shows theresas remain at heart thinking in politics.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Theresa said she wont trigger article 50, until she have listened to what the scotish government have to say..... this shows theresas remain at heart thinking in politics."

Theresa May has always been a Brexiter at heart. I doubt she gives a flying f... what the Scottish government has to say

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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

[Removed by poster at 17/07/16 15:41:12]

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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

"Theresa said she wont trigger article 50, until she have listened to what the scotish government have to say..... this shows theresas remain at heart thinking in politics.

Theresa May has always been a Brexiter at heart. I doubt she gives a flying f... what the Scottish government has to say

"
No, she was campaigning for the remain side tho

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Ah, so Sturgeon's master plan is to keep going to referendum until she gets the result she wants. Child like behaviour.

If Scotland want to join the EU they would need to be independant a minimum of about 5 years, meeting EU criteria for 3 consecutive years prior. Then they'd have to accept the Euro.

I can't see any sane, proud patriotic Scot signing up to that, but I could be wrong.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I'm all for democracy, if the Scottish wish to leave I'll shake their hand and say good luck!

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By *LCCCouple
over a year ago

Cambridge

Well it might go like Denmark, half in, half out. The Danish mainland is in the EU, but the Faroes and Greenland (which are part of Denmark) are out of the EU. So maybe England and Wales will leave, and Scotland and NI will stay in. Surely everyone would be happy with that?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Well it might go like Denmark, half in, half out. The Danish mainland is in the EU, but the Faroes and Greenland (which are part of Denmark) are out of the EU. So maybe England and Wales will leave, and Scotland and NI will stay in. Surely everyone would be happy with that? "

the EU wouldn't

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By *LCCCouple
over a year ago

Cambridge

the EU wouldn't"

Why? As I said above, they've done it for Denmark, so why not us? So many Brexiters are always saying how the EU will bend to our will, so why not?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

the EU wouldn't

Why? As I said above, they've done it for Denmark, so why not us? So many Brexiters are always saying how the EU will bend to our will, so why not? "

what??

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By *LCCCouple
over a year ago

Cambridge

the EU wouldn't

Why? As I said above, they've done it for Denmark, so why not us? So many Brexiters are always saying how the EU will bend to our will, so why not?

what??

You say that the EU wouldn't like it, but why wouldn't they like it? There is already a precedent set for it by Denmark. If they let Denmark do it, why wouldn't they let the UK do it?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

[Removed by poster at 17/07/16 17:03:29]

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

the EU wouldn't

Why? As I said above, they've done it for Denmark, so why not us? So many Brexiters are always saying how the EU will bend to our will, so why not?

what??

You say that the EU wouldn't like it, but why wouldn't they like it? There is already a precedent set for it by Denmark. If they let Denmark do it, why wouldn't they let the UK do it? "

you don't get the EU and how it works at all do you?

But using your example, do you think they would let the Faroes and Greenland join if Denmark left?

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By *oo hotCouple
over a year ago

North West

"Nicola sturgeon has said she would consider a second referendum on scottish independence as early as next year if necessary.

What many Englanders can't seem to grasp is that EU treats all countries and people as equals. Scotland has an absolute right to be in control of its own destiny and if they wish to be part of a union of European nations that thinks more of them than their southern neighbours.

Until England as a nation starts to accept that we are no longer conquerors of the world and that our near neighbours are equals as opposed to... Fucking jocks, or poverty stricken Spanish, or Bulgarian peasants we will continue to foster a feeling of false superiority that has no place in the 21st Century.

Go Scotland... And the very best of luck.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

the EU wouldn't

Why? As I said above, they've done it for Denmark, so why not us? So many Brexiters are always saying how the EU will bend to our will, so why not?

what??

You say that the EU wouldn't like it, but why wouldn't they like it? There is already a precedent set for it by Denmark. If they let Denmark do it, why wouldn't they let the UK do it?

you don't get the EU and how it works at all do you?

But using your example, do you think they would let the Faroes and Greenland join if Denmark left?"

Nobody knows what will happen until negotiations start im pretty hopefull lots of countries would welcome scotland into the eu

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Nicola sturgeon has said she would consider a second referendum on scottish independence as early as next year if necessary.

Go Scotland... And the very best of luck."

Well said

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

the EU wouldn't

Why? As I said above, they've done it for Denmark, so why not us? So many Brexiters are always saying how the EU will bend to our will, so why not?

what??

You say that the EU wouldn't like it, but why wouldn't they like it? There is already a precedent set for it by Denmark. If they let Denmark do it, why wouldn't they let the UK do it?

you don't get the EU and how it works at all do you?

But using your example, do you think they would let the Faroes and Greenland join if Denmark left?

Nobody knows what will happen until negotiations start im pretty hopefull lots of countries would welcome scotland into the eu "

but there are 2 at least in Spain and France who wouldn't, so thats it, game over

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By *LCCCouple
over a year ago

Cambridge

the EU wouldn't

Why? As I said above, they've done it for Denmark, so why not us? So many Brexiters are always saying how the EU will bend to our will, so why not?

what??

You say that the EU wouldn't like it, but why wouldn't they like it? There is already a precedent set for it by Denmark. If they let Denmark do it, why wouldn't they let the UK do it?

you don't get the EU and how it works at all do you?

But using your example, do you think they would let the Faroes and Greenland join if Denmark left?"

Im pretty confident I know how it works thanks

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

the EU wouldn't

Why? As I said above, they've done it for Denmark, so why not us? So many Brexiters are always saying how the EU will bend to our will, so why not?

what??

You say that the EU wouldn't like it, but why wouldn't they like it? There is already a precedent set for it by Denmark. If they let Denmark do it, why wouldn't they let the UK do it?

you don't get the EU and how it works at all do you?

But using your example, do you think they would let the Faroes and Greenland join if Denmark left?

Im pretty confident I know how it works thanks

then tell me how Scotland could meet the requirements to join?

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By *LCCCouple
over a year ago

Cambridge

the EU wouldn't

Why? As I said above, they've done it for Denmark, so why not us? So many Brexiters are always saying how the EU will bend to our will, so why not?

what??

You say that the EU wouldn't like it, but why wouldn't they like it? There is already a precedent set for it by Denmark. If they let Denmark do it, why wouldn't they let the UK do it?

you don't get the EU and how it works at all do you?

But using your example, do you think they would let the Faroes and Greenland join if Denmark left?

Im pretty confident I know how it works thanks

then tell me how Scotland could meet the requirements to join?"

You have obviously not noticed that Scotland is already in, so its not about Scotland joining, its about England leaving. Also if it is done this way round, I can’t see Spain having a problem with it.

You want to leave the EU, you live in England, if England left and Scotland stayed why should you care?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"At least it will give a year preparation from whom want's to stay IN or OUT they can simply swap places from England to Scotland and vice versa?

It is not quite as simple as that.

Scotland would have to vote for independence, satisfy the EU rules for entry and wait for a couple of years.

I am afraid that if they were currently an independent nation, they would not qualify. The EU do not want any more Greeces joining at the moment.

While Ms Fish no doubt has Scotland's interests at heart, threatening another referendum is not the way to protect those interests.

The danger is the response. "Sorry to see you go. But now you have decided - which I fully understand - there is no more financial support and you can look to the success of your EU application for that."

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

the EU wouldn't

Why? As I said above, they've done it for Denmark, so why not us? So many Brexiters are always saying how the EU will bend to our will, so why not?

what??

You say that the EU wouldn't like it, but why wouldn't they like it? There is already a precedent set for it by Denmark. If they let Denmark do it, why wouldn't they let the UK do it?

you don't get the EU and how it works at all do you?

But using your example, do you think they would let the Faroes and Greenland join if Denmark left?

Im pretty confident I know how it works thanks

then tell me how Scotland could meet the requirements to join?

You want to leave the EU, you live in England, if England left and Scotland stayed why should you care?"

I don't care. But Scotland are not in the EU

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By *LCCCouple
over a year ago

Cambridge

the EU wouldn't

Why? As I said above, they've done it for Denmark, so why not us? So many Brexiters are always saying how the EU will bend to our will, so why not?

what??

You say that the EU wouldn't like it, but why wouldn't they like it? There is already a precedent set for it by Denmark. If they let Denmark do it, why wouldn't they let the UK do it?

you don't get the EU and how it works at all do you?

But using your example, do you think they would let the Faroes and Greenland join if Denmark left?

Im pretty confident I know how it works thanks

then tell me how Scotland could meet the requirements to join?

You want to leave the EU, you live in England, if England left and Scotland stayed why should you care?

I don't care. But Scotland are not in the EU"

Is England in the EU?

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By *horehouseCouple
over a year ago

dissatisfied

the EU wouldn't

Why? As I said above, they've done it for Denmark, so why not us? So many Brexiters are always saying how the EU will bend to our will, so why not?

what??

You say that the EU wouldn't like it, but why wouldn't they like it? There is already a precedent set for it by Denmark. If they let Denmark do it, why wouldn't they let the UK do it?

you don't get the EU and how it works at all do you?

But using your example, do you think they would let the Faroes and Greenland join if Denmark left?

Im pretty confident I know how it works thanks

then tell me how Scotland could meet the requirements to join?

You want to leave the EU, you live in England, if England left and Scotland stayed why should you care?

I don't care. But Scotland are not in the EU

Is England in the EU?"

That's a big yes the UK is in the EU for the foreseeable future ...

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

the EU wouldn't

Why? As I said above, they've done it for Denmark, so why not us? So many Brexiters are always saying how the EU will bend to our will, so why not?

what??

You say that the EU wouldn't like it, but why wouldn't they like it? There is already a precedent set for it by Denmark. If they let Denmark do it, why wouldn't they let the UK do it?

you don't get the EU and how it works at all do you?

But using your example, do you think they would let the Faroes and Greenland join if Denmark left?

Nobody knows what will happen until negotiations start im pretty hopefull lots of countries would welcome scotland into the eu

but there are 2 at least in Spain and France who wouldn't, so thats it, game over "

Your talking rubbish as no negotiations have started yet

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

the EU wouldn't

Why? As I said above, they've done it for Denmark, so why not us? So many Brexiters are always saying how the EU will bend to our will, so why not?

what??

You say that the EU wouldn't like it, but why wouldn't they like it? There is already a precedent set for it by Denmark. If they let Denmark do it, why wouldn't they let the UK do it?

you don't get the EU and how it works at all do you?

But using your example, do you think they would let the Faroes and Greenland join if Denmark left?

Im pretty confident I know how it works thanks

then tell me how Scotland could meet the requirements to join?

You want to leave the EU, you live in England, if England left and Scotland stayed why should you care?

I don't care. But Scotland are not in the EU

Is England in the EU?"

Nope. The UK is

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

the EU wouldn't

Why? As I said above, they've done it for Denmark, so why not us? So many Brexiters are always saying how the EU will bend to our will, so why not?

what??

You say that the EU wouldn't like it, but why wouldn't they like it? There is already a precedent set for it by Denmark. If they let Denmark do it, why wouldn't they let the UK do it?

you don't get the EU and how it works at all do you?

But using your example, do you think they would let the Faroes and Greenland join if Denmark left?

Im pretty confident I know how it works thanks

then tell me how Scotland could meet the requirements to join?

You want to leave the EU, you live in England, if England left and Scotland stayed why should you care?

I don't care. But Scotland are not in the EU

Is England in the EU?"

You know the answer. The UK is the member state within the UK.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

the EU wouldn't

Why? As I said above, they've done it for Denmark, so why not us? So many Brexiters are always saying how the EU will bend to our will, so why not?

what??

You say that the EU wouldn't like it, but why wouldn't they like it? There is already a precedent set for it by Denmark. If they let Denmark do it, why wouldn't they let the UK do it?

you don't get the EU and how it works at all do you?

But using your example, do you think they would let the Faroes and Greenland join if Denmark left?

Nobody knows what will happen until negotiations start im pretty hopefull lots of countries would welcome scotland into the eu

but there are 2 at least in Spain and France who wouldn't, so thats it, game over

Your talking rubbish as no negotiations have started yet "

and they won't, sorry

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By *LCCCouple
over a year ago

Cambridge

the EU wouldn't

Why? As I said above, they've done it for Denmark, so why not us? So many Brexiters are always saying how the EU will bend to our will, so why not?

what??

You say that the EU wouldn't like it, but why wouldn't they like it? There is already a precedent set for it by Denmark. If they let Denmark do it, why wouldn't they let the UK do it?

you don't get the EU and how it works at all do you?

But using your example, do you think they would let the Faroes and Greenland join if Denmark left?

Im pretty confident I know how it works thanks

then tell me how Scotland could meet the requirements to join?

You want to leave the EU, you live in England, if England left and Scotland stayed why should you care?

I don't care. But Scotland are not in the EU

Is England in the EU?

Nope. The UK is"

So Scotland isn’t in the EU, England isn’t in the EU, Wales isn’t in the EU, NI isn’t in the EU, so what is all the fuss about then!

But seriously, if parts of one country and leave the EU, then parts of this United Kingdom can leave the EU, with the other parts remaining in, thus satisfying those who want to stay, and those who want to leave.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

the EU wouldn't

Why? As I said above, they've done it for Denmark, so why not us? So many Brexiters are always saying how the EU will bend to our will, so why not?

what??

You say that the EU wouldn't like it, but why wouldn't they like it? There is already a precedent set for it by Denmark. If they let Denmark do it, why wouldn't they let the UK do it?

you don't get the EU and how it works at all do you?

But using your example, do you think they would let the Faroes and Greenland join if Denmark left?

Im pretty confident I know how it works thanks

then tell me how Scotland could meet the requirements to join?

You want to leave the EU, you live in England, if England left and Scotland stayed why should you care?

I don't care. But Scotland are not in the EU

Is England in the EU?

Nope. The UK is

So Scotland isn’t in the EU, England isn’t in the EU, Wales isn’t in the EU, NI isn’t in the EU, so what is all the fuss about then!

like I said, you don't understand. Why don't you write to the EU asking if you can remain?

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By *LCCCouple
over a year ago

Cambridge

the EU wouldn't

Why? As I said above, they've done it for Denmark, so why not us? So many Brexiters are always saying how the EU will bend to our will, so why not?

what??

You say that the EU wouldn't like it, but why wouldn't they like it? There is already a precedent set for it by Denmark. If they let Denmark do it, why wouldn't they let the UK do it?

you don't get the EU and how it works at all do you?

But using your example, do you think they would let the Faroes and Greenland join if Denmark left?

Im pretty confident I know how it works thanks

then tell me how Scotland could meet the requirements to join?

You want to leave the EU, you live in England, if England left and Scotland stayed why should you care?

I don't care. But Scotland are not in the EU

Is England in the EU?

Nope. The UK is

So Scotland isn’t in the EU, England isn’t in the EU, Wales isn’t in the EU, NI isn’t in the EU, so what is all the fuss about then!

like I said, you don't understand. Why don't you write to the EU asking if you can remain?

“You don’t understand” is always a great counter argument! But you also touch upon an interesting topic about me personally being able to stay. Since the Maastricht Treaty I (and you, and all of the other citizens of EU member states) have not only been a British citizen, but I have also been a European Citizen (remember all those people who made us look at our passports to see at has European Union on it?). So its not clear that just because the United Kingdom wants to leave the EU, it that will actually strip away my rights as an EU citizen.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

the EU wouldn't

Why? As I said above, they've done it for Denmark, so why not us? So many Brexiters are always saying how the EU will bend to our will, so why not?

what??

You say that the EU wouldn't like it, but why wouldn't they like it? There is already a precedent set for it by Denmark. If they let Denmark do it, why wouldn't they let the UK do it?

you don't get the EU and how it works at all do you?

But using your example, do you think they would let the Faroes and Greenland join if Denmark left?

Im pretty confident I know how it works thanks

then tell me how Scotland could meet the requirements to join?

You want to leave the EU, you live in England, if England left and Scotland stayed why should you care?

I don't care. But Scotland are not in the EU

Is England in the EU?

Nope. The UK is

So Scotland isn’t in the EU, England isn’t in the EU, Wales isn’t in the EU, NI isn’t in the EU, so what is all the fuss about then!

Because the UK is the member state. You do know that? I asked it before but assumed you were joking.

If Scotland voted to leave it would no longer be part of the UK. It would then have to apply to be a member of the EU.

I am sure that you can follow argument. Stubborn you may be but stupid you are not.

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By *ane DTV/TS
over a year ago

London

This was covered in 2014.

If Scotland leaves while the Uk is a member, then Scotland becomes a new state and has to hit all the key points of the entry criteria and get the approval of all other states including rUK.

I seriously doubt that the EU would allow an iScotland entry even after Brexit as we don't hit several of the accession criteria.

It was made patently clear by the then Spanish goverment, which has been confirmed by the current Spanish government, that they would veto the entry of an iScotland to the EU.

During the 2014 ref, the "yes" side claimed it would take 18 months and £200 milliom to create the new Scottish state. Now they have spent £40 million on an empty airport, £60 million on a cancelled NHS programme and £178 million on a farm subsidy system thats now almost a year overdue and placed farmers in financial trouble.

We now live in a Scotland where we have state snoopers for all our kids, a single state police force who are allowed to turn up to minor incidents openly carrying guns and a fractured society where those who dare to oppose the Party line are called traitors, quizlings and the latest one.. "domestic enemies".

Scary stuff.

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By *horehouseCouple
over a year ago

dissatisfied

"This was covered in 2014.

If Scotland leaves while the Uk is a member, then Scotland becomes a new state and has to hit all the key points of the entry criteria and get the approval of all other states including rUK.

I seriously doubt that the EU would allow an iScotland entry even after Brexit as we don't hit several of the accession criteria.

It was made patently clear by the then Spanish goverment, which has been confirmed by the current Spanish government, that they would veto the entry of an iScotland to the EU.

Scary stuff."

Sounds like your painting a future picture of life in the UK ..

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By *LCCCouple
over a year ago

Cambridge

Yes I do know that it is the UK that is the member state, not the 4 countries that make up the UK.

As has just been mentioned Scotland leaving the UK, and then joining the EU doesn’t seem like a goer, a big reason is because of Spain and the Catalan region. Spain don’t want the Catalan to declare independence from them and still be able to remain in the EU.

In the case of Scotland if we look at the results of the two referenda, we find that Scotland wants to remain in the UK, and remain in the EU. NI also wants to remain in the UK (their referendum was about 40 years ago though) and the EU. Wales wants to remain in the UK and leave the EU, and England wants to remain in the UK and leave the EU.

So instead of breaking up the UK, which no country has actually voted for. Why don’t England and Wales leave the EU, like Greenland and the Faroe Islands did, and leave Scotland and NI in under the UK flag?

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By *ane DTV/TS
over a year ago

London

The "named persons" portion of the Childrens Act (Scotland) goes live at the end of August.

The cops are out there now with the weapons - recently spotted getting lunch in a McD's in Inverness with a pistol on their hips.

This is happening now in Scotland.. god knows what it would ve like if they got "full levers of control"

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By *ane DTV/TS
over a year ago

London

"Yes I do know that it is the UK that is the member state, not the 4 countries that make up the UK.

Both the countries mentioned have 2 major points, they are remote and have no land border with another country.

If Scotland activated the Greenland option, you're looking at a hard border between the Solway and Berwick.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

what happened to democracy? People are given a choice in a free open vote, they make the majority decision and when politicians do not like it or it does not fit their agenda they want another vote.

Unreal... democracy is supposed to be about the will of the people and not the politicians making a living out of a lot of hot air.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

The Scottish Parliament has ignored the age of austerity and voted in favour of free prescriptions for all patients north of the border.

Scots also get free personal care in old age, while their students pay no tuition fees – unlike those born in England

Scottish people receive free eye tests (compared to an English charge of around £19) and free ‘personal care’ in old age, while English pensioners have to pay full residential care costs if they own assets of more than £23,000

To top it all, Scottish students pay no tuition fees, even if they attend a university in England. Students born south of the border face paying up to £9,000 a year

English taxpayers are being asked to help subsidise for people living in Scotland a range of services not available in England, including free prescriptions, free hospital parking, free accommodation in care homes and free university tuition fees.

Another problem we Scots have that you English do not have, is you Englanders can plan ahead, you phone for a doctors appointment and it can be 7 days ahead so you can arrange time off from work, We Scots phone at 8am in morning and have an appointment by 9am, very difficult to plan ahead in that situation.

and of course there is a matter of visiting elder parents in winter, you turn up and visit them in winter and their free heating is turned up full, you have to open the windows to cool the place down.

Life isn't all its made out to be in Scotland, think yourself lucky if you live down south

way down south

London town (that's a wee bit Dire Straights at the end)

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Yes I do know that it is the UK that is the member state, not the 4 countries that make up the UK.

Simply because it would not then be the United Kingdom. It would be the Disunited Kingdom.

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By *LCCCouple
over a year ago

Cambridge

"Yes I do know that it is the UK that is the member state, not the 4 countries that make up the UK.

Both the countries mentioned have 2 major points, they are remote and have no land border with another country.

If Scotland activated the Greenland option, you're looking at a hard border between the Solway and Berwick."

Or if the whole of the UK leaves there will presumably be a hard border between Eire and NI. So either way there are land borders that may change the way we cross them.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Yes I do know that it is the UK that is the member state, not the 4 countries that make up the UK.

Both the countries mentioned have 2 major points, they are remote and have no land border with another country.

If Scotland activated the Greenland option, you're looking at a hard border between the Solway and Berwick.

Or if the whole of the UK leaves there will presumably be a hard border between Eire and NI. So either way there are land borders that may change the way we cross them."

Wrong, again. There was freedom of movement across northern and southern Ireland well before the EU agreement. And it will continue.

Anything else you want to throw into the mix?

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By *LCCCouple
over a year ago

Cambridge

"Yes I do know that it is the UK that is the member state, not the 4 countries that make up the UK.

Both the countries mentioned have 2 major points, they are remote and have no land border with another country.

If Scotland activated the Greenland option, you're looking at a hard border between the Solway and Berwick.

Or if the whole of the UK leaves there will presumably be a hard border between Eire and NI. So either way there are land borders that may change the way we cross them.

Wrong, again. There was freedom of movement across northern and southern Ireland well before the EU agreement. And it will continue.

Anything else you want to throw into the mix?"

So there weren't checkpoints or anything like that?

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By *LCCCouple
over a year ago

Cambridge

"Yes I do know that it is the UK that is the member state, not the 4 countries that make up the UK.

Simply because it would not then be the United Kingdom. It would be the Disunited Kingdom."

Well how United is it going to be if Scotland and Northern Ireland leave?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Yes I do know that it is the UK that is the member state, not the 4 countries that make up the UK.

Simply because it would not then be the United Kingdom. It would be the Disunited Kingdom.

Well how United is it going to be if Scotland and Northern Ireland leave?"

It would not. It would be, again, the Disunited Kingdom.

Your point? Or is the response going to be that Scotland and Northern Ireland would somehow remain in the EU?

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By *LCCCouple
over a year ago

Cambridge

"Yes I do know that it is the UK that is the member state, not the 4 countries that make up the UK.

Simply because it would not then be the United Kingdom. It would be the Disunited Kingdom.

Well how United is it going to be if Scotland and Northern Ireland leave?

It would not. It would be, again, the Disunited Kingdom.

Your point? Or is the response going to be that Scotland and Northern Ireland would somehow remain in the EU?"

Why would that be bad? I'm not aiming this at anyone in particular, but I sometimes get the feeling that for some people, leaving the EU is actually not enough for them, they seem to not want anyone to be a part of it, to see the whole EU collapse, and I dont really understand why.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"The Scottish Parliament has ignored the age of austerity and voted in favour of free prescriptions for all patients north of the border.

Scots also get free personal care in old age, while their students pay no tuition fees – unlike those born in England

To top it all, Scottish students pay no tuition fees, even if they attend a university in England. Students born south of the border face paying up to £9,000 a year

Life isn't all its made out to be in Scotland, think yourself lucky if you live down south

way down south

London town (that's a wee bit Dire Straights at the end)

Aye some will say we have got it real hard up here and snp all bad lol ,they have done more for scotland in 10yrs than labour done in 70 thats why labour were wiped out

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"The Scottish Parliament has ignored the age of austerity and voted in favour of free prescriptions for all patients north of the border.

Scots also get free personal care in old age, while their students pay no tuition fees – unlike those born in England

To top it all, Scottish students pay no tuition fees, even if they attend a university in England. Students born south of the border face paying up to £9,000 a year

Life isn't all its made out to be in Scotland, think yourself lucky if you live down south

way down south

London town (that's a wee bit Dire Straights at the end)

Aye some will say we have got it real hard up here and snp all bad lol ,they have done more for scotland in 10yrs than labour done in 70 thats why labour were wiped out

yes but these Englanders can plan ahead for doctors appointments, we only have an hour to plan

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By *andACouple
over a year ago

glasgow

All of this is irrelevant as there won't be any referendum.

The SNP don't want to call one as they know they'll lose again and that would be catastrophic for them. If they wanted a referendum they'd have called for it by now. All the talk prior to the EU referendum was about how a Brexit would trigger another independence referendum and yet here we are a few weeks down the line and it's still just talk of 'maybe'. This is only being done to keep the SNP supporters onside (many of wholm aren't natural SNP supporters and are only doing so in the hope of getting independence)

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Yes I do know that it is the UK that is the member state, not the 4 countries that make up the UK.

Simply because it would not then be the United Kingdom. It would be the Disunited Kingdom.

Well how United is it going to be if Scotland and Northern Ireland leave?

It would not. It would be, again, the Disunited Kingdom.

Your point? Or is the response going to be that Scotland and Northern Ireland would somehow remain in the EU?

I am not saying it would necessarily be bad. Sad, certainly and possibly short-sighted.

I have no idea why you think people delight in the thought of the EU collapsing. I don't delight in it. I do think that it is a failed concept which cannot survive, but that is different from delighting in its demise.

What I really don't understand is your absolute total commitment to the concept without any doubts or criticism. To me, that makes your position entirely untenable.

Yes, I voted out. But, as you have heard, that is not without caveats. You seem to continue arguing that there were no issues with the EU.

Life choices are rarely that simple.

No, I very much doubt that the majority of Brexiters were racist. No, I doubt that the majority of Brexiters were followers of Garage.

On the whole, I think they looked at the pros and cons and decided they were, future unknown, better off out.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"All of this is irrelevant as there won't be any referendum.

"many of wholm aren't natural SNP supporters"

educate me? what is a "natural" SNP supporter

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Yes the SNP up here are starting to be rumbled as blowhards.......and with oil prices collapsing there is even less economic reality to there wishy washy financial plans.They decry Westminster "austerity" but are too fearful to change any tax thresholds or raise council taxes...at heart they are really "Tartan Tories".........

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By *andACouple
over a year ago

glasgow

"All of this is irrelevant as there won't be any referendum.

"many of wholm aren't natural SNP supporters"

educate me? what is a "natural" SNP supporter

In terms of policies the SNP are a centrist party, despite all their left wing rhetoric. They have attracted many new followers from the left who see them as a means to an end. I've discussed this with some of them asking why they support a party who haven't brought in a single wealth redistribution policy and their answer is always the same, 'We get independence and then vote in a proper left wing party'. I've no idea who this party is though.

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By *andACouple
over a year ago

glasgow

"Yes the SNP up here are starting to be rumbled as blowhards.......and with oil prices collapsing there is even less economic reality to there wishy washy financial plans.They decry Westminster "austerity" but are too fearful to change any tax thresholds or raise council taxes...at heart they are really "Tartan Tories".........

Let's not forget all those promises in the past about abolishing the 'unfair council tax'. They even had some billboard posters up stating they would do this and then when they finally get the powers to do it.....they're too feart

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By *LCCCouple
over a year ago

Cambridge

"Yes I do know that it is the UK that is the member state, not the 4 countries that make up the UK.

Simply because it would not then be the United Kingdom. It would be the Disunited Kingdom.

Well how United is it going to be if Scotland and Northern Ireland leave?

It would not. It would be, again, the Disunited Kingdom.

Your point? Or is the response going to be that Scotland and Northern Ireland would somehow remain in the EU?

I am not saying it would necessarily be bad. Sad, certainly and possibly short-sighted.

What I really don't understand is your absolute total commitment to the concept without any doubts or criticism. To me, that makes your position entirely untenable.

Yes, I voted out. But, as you have heard, that is not without caveats. You seem to continue arguing that there were no issues with the EU.

Life choices are rarely that simple.

No, I very much doubt that the majority of Brexiters were racist. No, I doubt that the majority of Brexiters were followers of Garage.

On the whole, I think they looked at the pros and cons and decided they were, future unknown, better off out."

I don’t think that the EU is perfect, but I don’t think that any political system is perfect, Westminster included. The forums are so polarised that its hard to have a reasoned debate on any issue, so if a supporter of one thing mentions even the slightest criticism, its jumped on by the other side like a lion going for the jugular!

In the spirit of giving criticism to our own cause, I think that one of the worst things that the EU does is it is too insular and opaque. I don’t think it does enough to explain what it does, why it does it or how it does it. I think that a lot of people in the UK have the EU to thank for things that it doesn’t even realise the EU has done.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"All of this is irrelevant as there won't be any referendum.

"many of wholm aren't natural SNP supporters"

educate me? what is a "natural" SNP supporter

They have helped me out and that is why I have voted for them in the past,

Roseanna Cunningham helped campaign for a £400,000 flood wall to be built to protect my previous home

The Scottish Parliament has ignored the age of austerity and voted in favour of free prescriptions for all patients north of the border.

Scots also get free personal care in old age, while their students pay no tuition fees – unlike those born in England

To top it all, Scottish students pay no tuition fees, even if they attend a university in England. Students born south of the border face paying up to £9,000 a year

Do you consider Kezia Dugdale, Ruth Davidson or Willie Rennie can do any better?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Oh i totally agree..they have no opposition is the problem. Labour have imploded and despite Ruth Davidsons personal charisma the Tories are still not accepted as a real force. But the SNP talent pool is wafer thin and they are being exposed now as mostly second raters......pity as we need good government not a victim mentality which will always hold us back....

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Yes I do know that it is the UK that is the member state, not the 4 countries that make up the UK.

Simply because it would not then be the United Kingdom. It would be the Disunited Kingdom.

Well how United is it going to be if Scotland and Northern Ireland leave?

It would not. It would be, again, the Disunited Kingdom.

Your point? Or is the response going to be that Scotland and Northern Ireland would somehow remain in the EU?

I am not saying it would necessarily be bad. Sad, certainly and possibly short-sighted.

What I really don't understand is your absolute total commitment to the concept without any doubts or criticism. To me, that makes your position entirely untenable.

Yes, I voted out. But, as you have heard, that is not without caveats. You seem to continue arguing that there were no issues with the EU.

Life choices are rarely that simple.

No, I very much doubt that the majority of Brexiters were racist. No, I doubt that the majority of Brexiters were followers of Garage.

On the whole, I think they looked at the pros and cons and decided they were, future unknown, better off out.

You know? That is the first time I have heard any negativity from you about the EU.

I may just have not seen all you have posted.

I try to be balanced while still showing my colours.

Thank you.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Interesting Thread and well done the OP.

But it seems the poor old Remainers are on Scotland'd side because it means the break up of the UK. Thus showing their true allegiance:

"If we can't keep the UK under the EU's heel we want to destroy it"

Utter madness to suggest a 'Faroes' arrangement just like it is similar madness to suggest a 'Norway' deal for the UK with the EU.

So here is a reality check for the dreamers and schemers:

* The SNP are shit scared of having their economic failure in Scotland scrutinised too closely so at every turn they call 'Independence' and create a political smokescreen.

* The 'Englanders' (so called earlier) have every damn right to be worried about Scotland because they are the ones picking up the £15 Billion bill for the SNP failure. Just like they do in Wales for Labour's failure. N. Ireland will always be an exception for obvious reasons.

* Sturgeon will do well in the EU because she thinks like the Elite their: Keep having Referendums until you beat them into submission.

* Scotland will have to be an independent nation for 5 years before applying to the EU. That application will take 5 years. In which time they will have to show financial independence. Something the SNP have failed to do every year they have been in power. Post Indy there will be no 'Englanders' to pick up the overdraft.

* As soon as the Jocks have to dig into their own wallets to fund that £15 Billion (as they will from last April) at a rate of £3,200 per person the SNP will be kicked out. And THIS is why she is scheming to create a panic over 'IndyRef2'. She knows that the clock is ticking on the SNP Government which lost 10% of their seats at the last MSP election while the Tories more than doubled theirs.

It utterly defeats me why this woman commands such dominance of the media. She represents about 8% of the population (about 5.3 Million). Manchester and Birmingham combined are bigger populations. And they don't need £15 Billion a year to survive.

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By *andACouple
over a year ago

glasgow

"All of this is irrelevant as there won't be any referendum.

"many of wholm aren't natural SNP supporters"

educate me? what is a "natural" SNP supporter

They have helped me out and that is why I have voted for them in the past,

Roseanna Cunningham helped campaign for a £400,000 flood wall to be built to protect my previous home

The Scottish Parliament has ignored the age of austerity and voted in favour of free prescriptions for all patients north of the border.

Scots also get free personal care in old age, while their students pay no tuition fees – unlike those born in England

To top it all, Scottish students pay no tuition fees, even if they attend a university in England. Students born south of the border face paying up to £9,000 a year

Do you consider Kezia Dugdale, Ruth Davidson or Willie Rennie can do any better?

You have to look behind the headlines of the policies to find out the result of them though. Free tuition fees for example has mainly benefited the middle classes to the detriment of the people it was supposed to help. There are now less people from disadvantaged backgrounds going to university as the number of bursaries available have been slashed. In fact England is performing better in this regard despite charging fees. Also, college places have been cut by over 150,000 to pay for this policy and those places are more likely to be filled by the less well off.

It's also a bit contradictory to congratulate them for having these policies, claiming they are subsidised by England when the SNP's main goal is independence which according to their own figures would slash our income by £14bn per year. This is around the total budget for the NHS in Scotland. Tory austerity would be nothing compared to post independence SNP austerity. It would be on a scale we've never seen.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Interesting Thread and well done the OP.

But it seems the poor old Remainers are on Scotland'd side because it means the break up of the UK. Thus showing their true allegiance:

"If we can't keep the UK under the EU's heel we want to destroy it"

Utter madness to suggest a 'Faroes' arrangement just like it is similar madness to suggest a 'Norway' deal for the UK with the EU.

So here is a reality check for the dreamers and schemers:

* The SNP are shit scared of having their economic failure in Scotland scrutinised too closely so at every turn they call 'Independence' and create a political smokescreen.

* Sturgeon will do well in the EU because she thinks like the Elite their: Keep having Referendums until you beat them into submission.

RACIST.

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By *oorland2Couple
over a year ago

Stoke

Scotland can't afford independance and Nichola is poisoned chalice who will sell her dream to a gullible few

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By *oorland2Couple
over a year ago

Stoke

This is the truest account of the sutituation that I have ever read in my entire life, well done!..

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By *mmabluTV/TS
over a year ago

upton wirral

There will be know more referendums,when will people get this fact?

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By *tillup4funMan
over a year ago

Wakefield

the EU wouldn't

Why? As I said above, they've done it for Denmark, so why not us? So many Brexiters are always saying how the EU will bend to our will, so why not?

what??

You say that the EU wouldn't like it, but why wouldn't they like it? There is already a precedent set for it by Denmark. If they let Denmark do it, why wouldn't they let the UK do it?

you don't get the EU and how it works at all do you?

But using your example, do you think they would let the Faroes and Greenland join if Denmark left?

Im pretty confident I know how it works thanks

then tell me how Scotland could meet the requirements to join?

You want to leave the EU, you live in England, if England left and Scotland stayed why should you care?"

Scotland must leave with the rest of the UK as all treaties including Article 50 were signed with the UK as a whole not just England.

Once we have left and Scotland gains independence then after 3 years Scotland can apply to join but remember if Scotland become independent they will not be allowed to keep the Pound as their currency.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Saw this posted on another site. Makes for me interesting reading.

Scotland, in my belief, is not a state per se in international law, so it is incapable of signing and ratifying international treaties. Neither does it have power over international relations, which are reserved to Westminster under the Scotland Act 1998;

It must therefore follow that Scotland could not become an EU Member State in its own right, or even sign an Association Agreement with the EU;

If Scotland did vote for cessation from the United Kingdom, Nicola Sturgeon’s wish is that it should inherit the position of the United Kingdom and thus retain a position of a full member state, while at the same time denying that if that strategy failed, Scotland would have to undergo the process of any state wishing to join the European Union

Under The Scotland Act 2016, if my reading of that Act is also correct, Scotland has no law-making powers in relation to referendums, therefore the consent of the United Kingdom would be required for another referendum.

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By *oo hotCouple
over a year ago

North West

"Saw this posted on another site. Makes for me interesting reading.

It must therefore follow that Scotland could not become an EU Member State in its own right, or even sign an Association Agreement with the EU;

Encapsulates why some English people will never understand the concept of equality amongst people and nations. The English no longer rule the world! We have no need to conquer and make subservient small nations in order to control them. This is the 21st Century and progress is made by working with others as equal partners. Scotland is a sovereign state and as long as ignorant English people continue to see them as being subservient to their masters south of the border, there will always be calls in Scotland for an escape from the control of Westminster.

Why should anyone care in England if Scotland wanted to stay in the EU? It is completely mystifying that so many English are so hung up with what another nation wants to do. Stop trying to exert undue and unwanted control over a sovereign nation.

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By *otlovefun42Couple
over a year ago

Costa Blanca Spain...

the EU wouldn't"

Neither would the Spanish.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Saw this posted on another site. Makes for me interesting reading.

It must therefore follow that Scotland could not become an EU Member State in its own right, or even sign an Association Agreement with the EU;

substitute unelected beaurocrats for English and Brussels for Westminster and you've made an argument for leaving the EU, well done

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Ah so its us English then? Excuse me who pays Scotland's overdraft? THAT gives us all the rights under the sun to have a say in Scotland's affairs. The day Scotland can pay its way it will have equality.

The day it has the same population it will have equality.

The day it generates the same GDP it will have equality.

The day it stops needing 'English' support for its Socialist Nirvana it will have equality.

Its a real shame you are playing the racist English vs Scottish games that Salmond and Sturgeon played in the first IndyRef. Abuse the English to puff up the bravehearts? Hmmmm

" Scotland is a sovereign state and as long as ignorant English people continue to see them as being subservient to their masters south of the border, there will always be calls in Scotland for an escape from the control of Westminster."

One slight problem with your argument: Scotland is NOT a Sovereign Nation State. It actually has no standing Internationally at all. No matter how much Sturgeon shouts and stamps her feet the fact remains Scotland is a nation (small 'n') within Great Britain. It also happens to be part of the UK. It is of no more consequence or importance than Wales, Northern Ireland or England. Or come to that East Anglia although for some reason Scotland is allowed to trample over MY democracy while I have no say in theirs.

And forgive me for making the comparison but when you run up a £15 Billion bill then those paying it ARE your masters. Its just as well we 'English' don't act like masters and more like friendly and generous Bank Managers. But upset a Bank Manager and your life can become really unpleasant.

The UK Governments of all persuasions have given the Scots everything they ever wanted, at huge cost and bureaucracy and still they want more. They are now the spoilt brat of the Union. Time to tell them who is the real boss here and it is the Westminster Government. She runs an Administration where the execution of powers have been devolved and nothing more. That power still resides in Westminster. Period. End of.

" Why should anyone care in England if Scotland wanted to stay in the EU? It is completely mystifying that so many English are so hung up with what another nation wants to do. Stop trying to exert undue and unwanted control over a sovereign nation."

You confuse caring for the future of a sister nation in a Union that has lasted for 300+ years to the benefit of all concerned with 'exerting undue and unwanted control'.

Personally I, and a growing number of English people, don't give a flying f**k if Scotland disappears into the North Sea but there is no way I am allowing Sturgeon to screw up the biggest decision this United Kingdom has made since WWII for her own political agenda.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

ofcourse horneyas2016, you know very well what you have said above is untrue

you know it

we know it

so why tell porkies

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"ofcourse horneyas2016, you know very well what you have said above is untrue

you know it

we know it

so why tell porkies"

Oh is it? well in that case rather than look a prat and shout 'lies' why not make an informed response with a factual discussion.

Oh wait .... you don't have one ....

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

What a load of old tosh.

What makes NS think the EU want or need scotland.

What makes here think she can use our currency or road net work .

Thinks NS has a lot of years work ahead of a vote thats assuming there is an Eu to join .

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"ofcourse horneyas2016, you know very well what you have said above is untrue

you know it

we know it

so why tell porkies

Oh is it? well in that case rather than look a prat and shout 'lies' why not make an informed response with a factual discussion.

Oh wait .... you don't have one ....

you seem to forget north sea oil in the equation

and tell me, how much cash is spent on london

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By *otlovefun42Couple
over a year ago

Costa Blanca Spain...

"What a load of old tosh.

What makes NS think the EU want or need scotland.

What makes here think she can use our currency or road net work .

Thinks NS has a lot of years work ahead of a vote thats assuming there is an Eu to join .

It is a "load of old tosh" but not quite for the reasons you say.

While the EU doesn't need Scotland it would certainly want Scotland as a member.

Firstly to rub English noses in it for Brexit. After that Scottish waters are heavily fished by EU fleets and they wouldn't want to lose some of the best fishing grounds in the EU.

However that is where it would end. The EU would have to stick to its rule of all new member states setting a timetable for joining the Euro which would be a very tough sell for Sturgeon and there would be too much at stake for the EU to make Scotland a special case.

The biggest stumbling block (as I've said many times) would be Spain.

The Spanish have always said that they will use their veto to stop Scotland (or any other devolved nation) joining the EU. as it would give a green light to the Basque region and especially Catalonia to do the same.

The Spanish said it during the 2014 referendum campaign and don't be under any illusions. They are not bluffing.

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By *tillup4funMan
over a year ago

Wakefield

At the end of the day Scotland can only have a referendum if Westminster say they can end of it is actually up to the PM.

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By *otlovefun42Couple
over a year ago

Costa Blanca Spain...

"ofcourse horneyas2016, you know very well what you have said above is untrue

you know it

we know it

so why tell porkies

Oh is it? well in that case rather than look a prat and shout 'lies' why not make an informed response with a factual discussion.

Oh wait .... you don't have one ....

you seem to forget north sea oil in the equation

and tell me, how much cash is spent on london"

North sea oil is not the asset it was 20-30 years ago. Stocks are diminishing fast and new finds are not only fewer and further between but a lot of it is uneconomical to extract due the the low oil price.

In 2014 Sturgeon and Salmond based their economic projections on an oil price of around $100 a barrel and even then many economists said that they didn't add up. Today oil is under $50.

An independent Scotland would need one hell of a new find in its waters, a dramatic hike in the oil price, or both.

As for London. I don't really see what that has to do with Scottish independence. I would guess that London does get more public spending than Scotland but with around double the population I would expect it to.

You may as well ask why does Manchester get more than Milton Keynes?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

In 2014 Sturgeon and Salmond based their economic projections on an oil price of around $100 a barrel and even then many economists said that they didn't add up. Today oil is under $50.

An independent Scotland would need one hell of a new find in its waters, a dramatic hike in the oil price, or both.

Please do me one favour, please do not try and educate me on North Sea Oil blocks, tendering or assets until you educate yourself first.

North Sea Oil & Gas is my job and has been for 3 decades, I know very well what resources there are both just now in production, capped finds and West of Shetland

and if you really think $46 a barrel is low, then research what is was in 1999/2000

Please do not try and preach things that you know nothing about

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By *otlovefun42Couple
over a year ago

Costa Blanca Spain...

In 2014 Sturgeon and Salmond based their economic projections on an oil price of around $100 a barrel and even then many economists said that they didn't add up. Today oil is under $50.

An independent Scotland would need one hell of a new find in its waters, a dramatic hike in the oil price, or both.

Please do me one favour, please do not try and educate me on North Sea Oil blocks, tendering or assets until you educate yourself first.

North Sea Oil & Gas is my job and has been for 3 decades, I know very well what resources there are both just now in production, capped finds and West of Shetland

and if you really think $46 a barrel is low, then research what is was in 1999/2000

Please do not try and preach things that you know nothing about "

I would bow to your obvious knowledge of oil and gas stocks and I would guess you know all about the dozens of idle rigs in Cromarty. But the market is the market.

I don't really care what the price was in 1999/2000. Scotland didn't have a referendum then. However it did have a referendum in 2014 when the price was north of $100 and Sturgeon and Salmond based their whole economic model around it. Today it is $47 and unlikely to change by much in the foreseeable future. No matter how much experience you have, maths is maths.

For the record I would actually support Scottish independence, but do it for the right reasons. At the moment the SNP are selling you a pup.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Nicola sturgeon has said she would consider a second referendum on scottish independence as early as next year if necessary.

Ms Fish has said also that she needs to ascertain Scotland's options before calling a referendum.

If leaving the EU is inevitable for Scotland in any event, she will have to make a call on whether the independents will win.

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By *tillup4funMan
over a year ago

Wakefield

"Nicola sturgeon has said she would consider a second referendum on scottish independence as early as next year if necessary.

Ms Fish has said also that she needs to ascertain Scotland's options before calling a referendum.

If leaving the EU is inevitable for Scotland in any event, she will have to make a call on whether the independents will win."

Not all Scots want to Remain but Ms Fish (as you call her) is,nt bothered about them she is only bothered about what she wants.

A third of Scots did,nt vote in the referendum so how does she know what they want.

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By *nkidutuMan
over a year ago

Edinburgh

Bizarre train of thought..why was England so desperate for Scotland going Independent/ It was not because it was costing them anything....it is because it was such a massive benefit to them.

Very simple.

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By *tillup4funMan
over a year ago

Wakefield

"Bizarre train of thought..why was England so desperate for Scotland going Independent/ It was not because it was costing them anything....it is because it was such a massive benefit to them.

Very simple."

Not sure what you are getting at when was England so desperate for Scotland to get independence?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"ofcourse horneyas2016, you know very well what you have said above is untrue

you know it

we know it

so why tell porkies

Oh is it? well in that case rather than look a prat and shout 'lies' why not make an informed response with a factual discussion.

Oh wait .... you don't have one ....

you seem to forget north sea oil in the equation

and tell me, how much cash is spent on london"

For someone steeped in the oil industry you seem far removed from reality. North Sea Oil exploration is a dead industry at less than $100 a barrel Brent Crude. How many rigs are laid up now? And why did the UK Government have to stump up huge amounts of support cash last year?

And that £15 billion figure was inclusive of all income from Oil and wherever and included all expenditure. And the Scottish economy is bankrupt.

Anyway as you asked the question here is your answer. Courtesy of the BBC during the Indy Referendum in 2014:

Taking ALL income and ALL expenditure the shortfall was 312.1 Billion. And the BBC calls it' by the most generous measure'

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-28879267

It also showed how Scotland had some £12,300 per head spent by Government while the whole UK average was £11,000.

Lets refer to:

HOUSE OF COMMONS

BRIEFING PAPER

Number 04033, 8 March 2015

In 2014/15, public spending per head in the UK as a whole was £8,913.

• England: £8,638 (3% below the UK average).

• Scotland: £10,374 (16% above the UK average)

• Wales: £9,904 (11% above the UK average)

• Northern Ireland: £11,106 (25% above the UK average).

Among the English regions, public spending per head was lowest in the South East at £7,756 (13% below the UK average) and highest in London at £9,840 (10% higher than

the UK average).

So we English got 19% LESS than than you in Scotland. We in the South East got 29% LESS than you in Scotland. And your jibe at London was untrue. London got 6% LESS than did Scotland.

Again I have treated Northern Ireland as exceptional for obvious reasons.

So who was telling 'porkies' then?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Typo correction:

"Taking ALL income and ALL expenditure the shortfall was £12.1 Billion. And the BBC calls it' by the most generous measure"

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"ofcourse horneyas2016, you know very well what you have said above is untrue

you know it

we know it

so why tell porkies

Oh is it? well in that case rather than look a prat and shout 'lies' why not make an informed response with a factual discussion.

Oh wait .... you don't have one ....

you seem to forget north sea oil in the equation

and tell me, how much cash is spent on london

And that £15 billion figure was inclusive of all income from Oil and wherever and included all expenditure. And the Scottish economy is bankrupt.

Anyway as you asked the question here is your answer. Courtesy of the BBC during the Indy Referendum in 2014:

Taking ALL income and ALL expenditure the shortfall was 312.1 Billion. And the BBC calls it' by the most generous measure'

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-28879267

It also showed how Scotland had some £12,300 per head spent by Government while the whole UK average was £11,000.

Lets refer to:

HOUSE OF COMMONS

BRIEFING PAPER

Number 04033, 8 March 2015

In 2014/15, public spending per head in the UK as a whole was £8,913.

• England: £8,638 (3% below the UK average).

• Scotland: £10,374 (16% above the UK average)

• Wales: £9,904 (11% above the UK average)

• Northern Ireland: £11,106 (25% above the UK average).

Among the English regions, public spending per head was lowest in the South East at £7,756 (13% below the UK average) and highest in London at £9,840 (10% higher than

the UK average).

So we English got 19% LESS than than you in Scotland. We in the South East got 29% LESS than you in Scotland. And your jibe at London was untrue. London got 6% LESS than did Scotland.

Again I have treated Northern Ireland as exceptional for obvious reasons.

So who was telling 'porkies' then?"

you do know the difference between a drilling platform and a production platform I hope?

please say yes.

and as for your cut and paste Google find, anyone can do that for any outcome, sure hope you didn't spend a lot of time searching, because at the end of the day you will be proved wrong.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"ofcourse horneyas2016, you know very well what you have said above is untrue

you know it

we know it

so why tell porkies

Oh is it? well in that case rather than look a prat and shout 'lies' why not make an informed response with a factual discussion.

Oh wait .... you don't have one ....

you seem to forget north sea oil in the equation

and tell me, how much cash is spent on london

And that £15 billion figure was inclusive of all income from Oil and wherever and included all expenditure. And the Scottish economy is bankrupt.

Anyway as you asked the question here is your answer. Courtesy of the BBC during the Indy Referendum in 2014:

Taking ALL income and ALL expenditure the shortfall was 312.1 Billion. And the BBC calls it' by the most generous measure'

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-28879267

It also showed how Scotland had some £12,300 per head spent by Government while the whole UK average was £11,000.

Lets refer to:

HOUSE OF COMMONS

BRIEFING PAPER

Number 04033, 8 March 2015

In 2014/15, public spending per head in the UK as a whole was £8,913.

• England: £8,638 (3% below the UK average).

• Scotland: £10,374 (16% above the UK average)

• Wales: £9,904 (11% above the UK average)

• Northern Ireland: £11,106 (25% above the UK average).

Among the English regions, public spending per head was lowest in the South East at £7,756 (13% below the UK average) and highest in London at £9,840 (10% higher than

the UK average).

So we English got 19% LESS than than you in Scotland. We in the South East got 29% LESS than you in Scotland. And your jibe at London was untrue. London got 6% LESS than did Scotland.

Again I have treated Northern Ireland as exceptional for obvious reasons.

So who was telling 'porkies' then?

you do know the difference between a drilling platform and a production platform I hope?

please say yes.

and as for your cut and paste Google find, anyone can do that for any outcome, sure hope you didn't spend a lot of time searching, because at the end of the day you will be proved wrong."

Oh look. Not one factual response just sarcasm and bluster.

It wasn't from Google Mr Clever One it was from the sources I quoted. Some of us DO know our subject. Its a shame your short attention span couldn't cope.

So. At the end of the day PROVE ME WRONG. Please. Go for it .....

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By *enard ArgenteMan
over a year ago

London and France

"Theresa said she wont trigger article 50, until she have listened to what the scotish government have to say..... this shows theresas remain at heart thinking in politics.

Theresa May has always been a Brexiter at heart. I doubt she gives a flying f... what the Scottish government has to say

No, she was campaigning for the remain side tho

She was hardly campaigning....

She went invisible during the referendum , only poked her head up over the parapet once or twice . She was less visible than Corbyn .

She wasn't going to make a big noise one way or the other, as she knew she was in with a good chance of following Cameron when he resigned; he just resigned a lot quicker than she thought he would.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Ah so many experts on here who seem to know exactly what will happen if scotland goes independent when in reality no one knows ,what i do know is that the snp will do what is best for the scottish ppl and im happy with that ,oh and as someone said above why were westminister so keen on stopping scotland becoming independent if they subsidise us so much doesnt make sense really unless its so they can keep our assets and resources oil,whisky ,water ,timber ect no thats silly really isnt it

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Ah so many experts on here who seem to know exactly what will happen if scotland goes independent when in reality no one knows ,what i do know is that the snp will do what is best for the scottish ppl and im happy with that ,oh and as someone said above why were westminister so keen on stopping scotland becoming independent if they subsidise us so much doesnt make sense really unless its so they can keep our assets and resources oil,whisky ,water ,timber ect no thats silly really isnt it "

I washed my hair in Scottish water once, couldn't do a thing with it after. You can keep it

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I washed my hair in Scottish water once, couldn't do a thing with it after. You can keep it

Lol thats cause it pure water the best in the world not the polluted stuff you get in england that you cant even drink

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Please don't confuse some of us pointing out the total emptiness of the SNP arguments, the total inability of the SNP to manage the Scottish economy and the stupidity of the SNP to think they will remain in the EU with us actually giving a flying f**k about Scotland toddling off into the North Sea ...

As was said once "Frankly my dear I don't give a damn".

So as an SNP supporter can you please enlighten us as to how you Scots are going to find an extra £15 Billion a year this year. To you Madame that is £3,200 please. And then repay us evil English for the £ Billions the SNP have borrowed ever since they took power? And that is before you leave the UK ....

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By *otlovefun42Couple
over a year ago

Costa Blanca Spain...

Experts? No far from it, but you really don't need to be an expert to see the failings of the SNP's independence model.

As I said above I would be more than happy to see Scotland go it alone, and Scotland could actually do it and make a success of it. But not on the model being peddled by the SNP.

The whisky industry is a valuable asset and despite the current fashion for Bourbon I still think Scotch is the best there is. The problem is that the whisky industry, while profitable, doesn't support that many jobs.

Of course Scotland has its oil reserves but the SNP are more than over playing that hand. Oil reserves alone will not support the Scottish economy (on current spending) without a massive hike in the world oil price and no-one sees that happening anytime soon.

Scotland has some of the best fishing grounds in the EU. But there lies the problem if Sturgeon gets her way (which she wont, but I'll come back to that later) At the moment they are not Scottish fishing grounds they are EU grounds and on the SNP model they will remain so.

Sturgeon knows only too well that the numbers don't add up, that is why she is betting the farm on Scotland being allowed to stay in the EU. This is where she is seriously mistaken.

I know I keep banging on about it but everyone in Scotland should really look up the Spanish policy on Scotland being allowed to remain in/rejoin the EU. They are bitterly opposed to it and they do have a veto.

While the EU commission and people like Schulz and Juncker will meet Nicola and make all the appropriate noises, bottom line is that they have no say in the matter. The decision will be made by the European council of ministers and it has to be unanimous. Spain have one vote and they will use it to veto Scotland. No if's but's or maybe's. They will and they have made their intention very clear.

So by all means go for independence. With a population of around 5 million you could really make a go of it. Expand the banking sector, drastically cut public spending, and become an offshore tax haven. Add the whisky oil and fishing industry's into the mix and that model could actually work. But a high tax high spend economy balancing the books from Brussels handouts will not happen.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

As was said once "Frankly my dear I don't give a damn".

So expertly put well for 1 the snp are doing quite well with the the scottish economy with the pocket money they get think most scots will agree on that or they wouldnt be in power and the deficit will get managed might take time but will get there oh remind me how many trillions has westminester borrowed in last 6 yrs oh maybe you wash that under the carpet lol and just keep your nastiness about scotland going in every comment you make ,a wee scottish saying away and boil yer heid

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By *LCCCouple
over a year ago

Cambridge

I try to be consistent in my thinking, and I think working together is better than working independently. I think the UK is better off in the EU, and that Scotland is better off in the UK.

I can't really get my head around people who think that the UK is better of out of the EU, but that Scotland should stay in the UK, or alternatively the SNP position of out of the UK, but in The EU.

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By *its_n_piecesCouple
over a year ago

"Nicola sturgeon has said she would consider a second referendum on scottish independence as early as next year if necessary.

It could happen if the UK's government started the formal process of leaving the EU without scotland's position being safeguarded. what is your thoughts? "

it's purely a matter for those who live in Scotland .... everyone elses opinion is irrelevant and that's an absolute fact

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By *lik and PaulCouple
over a year ago

cahoots

"Nicola sturgeon has said she would consider a second referendum on scottish independence as early as next year if necessary.

It could happen if the UK's government started the formal process of leaving the EU without scotland's position being safeguarded. what is your thoughts?

it's purely a matter for those who live in Scotland .... everyone elses opinion is irrelevant and that's an absolute fact"

If the proposed referendum is about an independent Scotland and therefore by default breaking up the UK surely everyone should have a vote??

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

[Removed by poster at 18/07/16 16:56:29]

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

" So expertly put well for 1 the snp are doing quite well with the the scottish economy with the pocket money they get think most scots will agree on that or they wouldnt be in power and the deficit will get managed might take time but will get there"

Ah yes the 'pocket money' funded from England. Good point well made. And you do know Ms Sturgeon has a deficit greater in % GDP terms than the whole of the UK? Yes they way you are going to reduce that deficit is to pay higher taxes or face austerity the like of which makes Osborne a spendthrift! Good luck finding £3,200 per person in one year.

" oh remind me how many trillions has westminester borrowed in last 6 yrs oh maybe you wash that under the carpet lol"

Yes the money we were forced to borrow after that Wee Scots Laddie Brown fucked over the UK economy by borrowing £ Billions when he inherited a Surplus and then disappeared. At least we are reducing the deficit we inherited, borrowing less year on year and the costs of borrowing are reducing.

" and just keep your nastiness about scotland going in every comment you make ,a wee scottish saying away and boil yer heid "

Please don't confuse my hatred for the SNP and that lying manipulating bitch Sturgeon with how I feel about Scots people and Scotland for whom I have an abiding love and respect. But hey just take a wild swipe if it makes you feel better. Sadly people like you cannot admit the SNP are ruining your great country and are now embarked on ANOTHER smokescreen to make you all look stupid. And I thought Scots were made of finer stuff...

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By *otlovefun42Couple
over a year ago

Costa Blanca Spain...

"I try to be consistent in my thinking, and I think working together is better than working independently. I think the UK is better off in the EU, and that Scotland is better off in the UK.

I can't really get my head around people who think that the UK is better of out of the EU, but that Scotland should stay in the UK, or alternatively the SNP position of out of the UK, but in The EU."

I see the UK as a single entity and, not withstanding the odd realignment and occasional spat, has been for around 300 years and I would much prefer to see it stay together.

The EU started as a trading block (initially for coal and steel) but has morphed into something completely different with the ultimate goal of becoming a united states of Europe (mostly by stealth) I would much prefer it to to be pulled apart and with luck it can go back to its original form.

The one thing I find very strange however is that all over Europe different regions are demanding more autonomy yet slavishly letting the EU take their national autonomy away.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"" So expertly put well for 1 the snp are doing quite well with the the scottish economy with the pocket money they get think most scots will agree on that or they wouldnt be in power and the deficit will get managed might take time but will get there"

" oh remind me how many trillions has westminester borrowed in last 6 yrs oh maybe you wash that under the carpet lol"

" and just keep your nastiness about scotland going in every comment you make ,a wee scottish saying away and boil yer heid "

Haha nigel are you sure the deficit is going down yr by yr ? last i read its going up and the tories have borrowed more than labour ever did but hey that doesnt count eh ,oh and snp def not ruining our country we are doing just fine thank you and will continue to do so no matter if its independent,part of uk or eu ,well im just off to pick up my free prescription then pick daughter up from her free uni then going for free eye test aye its a hard life up here lol

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By *ane DTV/TS
over a year ago

London

It's not "free" - it has to be paid by someone!

If you take the current GERS figures (Scottish Government produced) Scotland runs an annual deficit in excess of £14 billion.

For example -

£14 billion is roughly the annual cost of the fully devolved NHS.

So please, tell us how the NHS and all those "free" things would be paid for in the event of a Scexit?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

" oh remind me how many trillions has westminester borrowed in last 6 yrs oh maybe you wash that under the carpet lol"

" and just keep your nastiness about scotland going in every comment you make ,a wee scottish saying away and boil yer heid "

Your Scottish smugness and blinkered outlook tells us all we need to know about how far down the pan Scotland has gone with the SNP.

yeah enjoy the 'Wee Baubies' courtesy of us English. You have a MIGHTY big shock coming and I was once minded to feel sorry. Not now ... Enjoy Austerity...

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Nicola sturgeon has said she would consider a second referendum on scottish independence as early as next year if necessary.

It could happen if the UK's government started the formal process of leaving the EU without scotland's position being safeguarded. what is your thoughts?

it's purely a matter for those who live in Scotland .... everyone elses opinion is irrelevant and that's an absolute fact

If the proposed referendum is about an independent Scotland and therefore by default breaking up the UK surely everyone should have a vote??"

That is correct, everyone in Scotland.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

" oh remind me how many trillions has westminester borrowed in last 6 yrs oh maybe you wash that under the carpet lol"

" and just keep your nastiness about scotland going in every comment you make ,a wee scottish saying away and boil yer heid "

Your Scottish smugness and blinkered outlook tells us all we need to know about how far down the pan Scotland has gone with the SNP.

yeah enjoy the 'Wee Baubies' courtesy of us English. You have a MIGHTY big shock coming and I was once minded to feel sorry. Not now ... Enjoy Austerity..."

RACIST.

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By *ane DTV/TS
over a year ago

London

Oh the fine face of "civic nationalisim" rears it foul mouth once more.

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By *its_n_piecesCouple
over a year ago

"Nicola sturgeon has said she would consider a second referendum on scottish independence as early as next year if necessary.

It could happen if the UK's government started the formal process of leaving the EU without scotland's position being safeguarded. what is your thoughts?

it's purely a matter for those who live in Scotland .... everyone elses opinion is irrelevant and that's an absolute fact

If the proposed referendum is about an independent Scotland and therefore by default breaking up the UK surely everyone should have a vote??"

doesn't work like that and it never will ..... it's a matter solely for the scots and no one elses thoughts on the matter count for anything

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By *otlovefun42Couple
over a year ago

Costa Blanca Spain...

" oh remind me how many trillions has westminester borrowed in last 6 yrs oh maybe you wash that under the carpet lol"

" and just keep your nastiness about scotland going in every comment you make ,a wee scottish saying away and boil yer heid "

Your Scottish smugness and blinkered outlook tells us all we need to know about how far down the pan Scotland has gone with the SNP.

yeah enjoy the 'Wee Baubies' courtesy of us English. You have a MIGHTY big shock coming and I was once minded to feel sorry. Not now ... Enjoy Austerity...

RACIST."

No. I'm sorry but the "racist" card doesn't wash on this one.

Maybe the wording isn't all it should be but with things like the Barnett formula in place it is only natural to expect some resentment from England.

Add to that free prescriptions and university tuition fees (that the English have to pay) and the English do have a right to be a bit peeved (at least)

It's very easy for Nicola and Co to promise the world while someone else is picking up the tab, but lets see how long she lasts with those policies without Westminster or Brussels to bail her out.

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By *otlovefun42Couple
over a year ago

Costa Blanca Spain...

"Nicola sturgeon has said she would consider a second referendum on scottish independence as early as next year if necessary.

It could happen if the UK's government started the formal process of leaving the EU without scotland's position being safeguarded. what is your thoughts?

it's purely a matter for those who live in Scotland .... everyone elses opinion is irrelevant and that's an absolute fact

If the proposed referendum is about an independent Scotland and therefore by default breaking up the UK surely everyone should have a vote??

doesn't work like that and it never will ..... it's a matter solely for the scots and no one elses thoughts on the matter count for anything"

That is true but only so far.

Scotland is fully entitled to choose independence but those who pay the bills should also have some say in the matter.

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By *its_n_piecesCouple
over a year ago

"That is true but only so far.

Scotland is fully entitled to choose independence but those who pay the bills should also have some say in the matter."

as already stated as absolute fact your opinion on this matter counts for nothing

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By *otlovefun42Couple
over a year ago

Costa Blanca Spain...

" oh remind me how many trillions has westminester borrowed in last 6 yrs oh maybe you wash that under the carpet lol"

" and just keep your nastiness about scotland going in every comment you make ,a wee scottish saying away and boil yer heid "

Good luck with the prescriptions and Uni fees in an independent Scotland.

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By *lik and PaulCouple
over a year ago

cahoots

"Nicola sturgeon has said she would consider a second referendum on scottish independence as early as next year if necessary.

It could happen if the UK's government started the formal process of leaving the EU without scotland's position being safeguarded. what is your thoughts?

it's purely a matter for those who live in Scotland .... everyone elses opinion is irrelevant and that's an absolute fact

If the proposed referendum is about an independent Scotland and therefore by default breaking up the UK surely everyone should have a vote??

That is correct, everyone in Scotland."

No, everyone in the UK as would affect the whole of the UK.

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By *otlovefun42Couple
over a year ago

Costa Blanca Spain...

"That is true but only so far.

Scotland is fully entitled to choose independence but those who pay the bills should also have some say in the matter.

as already stated as absolute fact your opinion on this matter counts for nothing"

I think the bill payers will beg to differ.

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By *its_n_piecesCouple
over a year ago

"That is true but only so far.

Scotland is fully entitled to choose independence but those who pay the bills should also have some say in the matter.

as already stated as absolute fact your opinion on this matter counts for nothing

I think the bill payers will beg to differ."

this ficticious group can beg all they fucking well want .... the absolute fact is their and your opinion on this matter counts for absolutely nothing

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By *lik and PaulCouple
over a year ago

cahoots

"That is true but only so far.

Scotland is fully entitled to choose independence but those who pay the bills should also have some say in the matter.

as already stated as absolute fact your opinion on this matter counts for nothing

I think the bill payers will beg to differ.

this ficticious group can beg all they fucking well want .... the absolute fact is their and your opinion on this matter counts for absolutely nothing"

This fictitious group ( the UK tax payer) doesn't need to beg because a Scottish referendum can't happen without westminsters consent I believe.

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By *otlovefun42Couple
over a year ago

Costa Blanca Spain...

"That is true but only so far.

Scotland is fully entitled to choose independence but those who pay the bills should also have some say in the matter.

as already stated as absolute fact your opinion on this matter counts for nothing

I think the bill payers will beg to differ.

this ficticious group can beg all they fucking well want .... the absolute fact is their and your opinion on this matter counts for absolutely nothing"

OK I'll give you that.

But when Westminster pulls the plug and the Germans refuse to pick up the tab (they are supporting enough basket cases already) then Scottish opinion will count for "absolutely nothing"

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

" oh remind me how many trillions has westminester borrowed in last 6 yrs oh maybe you wash that under the carpet lol"

" and just keep your nastiness about scotland going in every comment you make ,a wee scottish saying away and boil yer heid "

Your Scottish smugness and blinkered outlook tells us all we need to know about how far down the pan Scotland has gone with the SNP.

yeah enjoy the 'Wee Baubies' courtesy of us English. You have a MIGHTY big shock coming and I was once minded to feel sorry. Not now ... Enjoy Austerity...

RACIST."

That is twice you have done that. There won't be a third I promise you.

Explain how I am a racist when the vast majority of Scots are white Caucasian as I am?

Have I picked on any race or creed?

Where have I slagged off Scotland?

Where have I slagged off Scottish people just for being 'Scottish'?

You don't seem to have the intelligence or generosity of thought to see I despise the SNP and Sturgeon and Salmond. Both for their paucity of truth and their inability to manage the Scottish economy for the benefit of Scottish people. The fact she has had to come to the so called evil English more than once to bail her Government out seems to have given the bitch a bigger sense of entitlement. As an English taxpayer I object to being vilified for being English (is she a racist?) and her laughing at us having to cough up £15 Billion a year. 21% of our annual deficit.

I admire the Scottish people and have served with some great men and I love Scotland for reasons I will not go into suffice to say there is a part of Scotland that will forever be of my family.

All as I have explained twice now and in detail.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Nicola sturgeon has said she would consider a second referendum on scottish independence as early as next year if necessary.

Go Scotland... And the very best of luck."

That's the spirit be proud of your roots! I hear very little criticism of scotland from English much more the other way. It's people like you and there self hate that holds Britain back.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"That is true but only so far.

Scotland is fully entitled to choose independence but those who pay the bills should also have some say in the matter.

as already stated as absolute fact your opinion on this matter counts for nothing

I think the bill payers will beg to differ.

this ficticious group can beg all they fucking well want .... the absolute fact is their and your opinion on this matter counts for absolutely nothing"

We don't need to beg for anything. We don't actually need a referendum in Scotland at all. All Mrs May has to do the next time Sturgeon shouts 'IndyRef2' is place a Motion before the House to repeal the Act of Union.

Independence is right there.... I wonder if the SNP Turkeys will vote for Christmas?

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By *ostafunMan
over a year ago

near ipswich

I think you will find she cannot call for a referendum anyway only the prime minister can do that.

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By *its_n_piecesCouple
over a year ago

"That is true but only so far.

Scotland is fully entitled to choose independence but those who pay the bills should also have some say in the matter.

as already stated as absolute fact your opinion on this matter counts for nothing

I think the bill payers will beg to differ.

this ficticious group can beg all they fucking well want .... the absolute fact is their and your opinion on this matter counts for absolutely nothing

This fictitious group ( the UK tax payer) doesn't need to beg because a Scottish referendum can't happen without westminsters consent I believe."

it's a fact that this opinion on the matter also counts for absolutely nothing

it's a matter that will be decided by scotland whenever it decides to hold a referendum .... you don't get a say because you don't live there ..... it's how it's always worked and how it always will work so suck it up sweet cheeks

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By *lik and PaulCouple
over a year ago

cahoots

"That is true but only so far.

Scotland is fully entitled to choose independence but those who pay the bills should also have some say in the matter.

as already stated as absolute fact your opinion on this matter counts for nothing

I think the bill payers will beg to differ.

this ficticious group can beg all they fucking well want .... the absolute fact is their and your opinion on this matter counts for absolutely nothing

This fictitious group ( the UK tax payer) doesn't need to beg because a Scottish referendum can't happen without westminsters consent I believe.

it's a fact that this opinion on the matter also counts for absolutely nothing

Never been called sweet cheeks before....anyway, I will defer to your knowledge of constitutional law as I said that I believed it was the case.....and it would appear that others agree....I'm sure Google will have the answer somewhere.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"That is true but only so far.

Scotland is fully entitled to choose independence but those who pay the bills should also have some say in the matter.

as already stated as absolute fact your opinion on this matter counts for nothing

I think the bill payers will beg to differ.

this ficticious group can beg all they fucking well want .... the absolute fact is their and your opinion on this matter counts for absolutely nothing

This fictitious group ( the UK tax payer) doesn't need to beg because a Scottish referendum can't happen without westminsters consent I believe.

it's a fact that this opinion on the matter also counts for absolutely nothing

I see you live in Wales and appear from your language and attitude to be Scottish. Do correct me if I am wrong. But here is the thing 'Sweetcheeks'. Those two countries cost us 'fictitious taxpayers' in England nearly £30 Billion last year. We already fucking 'sucked it up Sweetcheeks'.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"That is true but only so far.

Scotland is fully entitled to choose independence but those who pay the bills should also have some say in the matter.

as already stated as absolute fact your opinion on this matter counts for nothing

I think the bill payers will beg to differ.

this ficticious group can beg all they fucking well want .... the absolute fact is their and your opinion on this matter counts for absolutely nothing

This fictitious group ( the UK tax payer) doesn't need to beg because a Scottish referendum can't happen without westminsters consent I believe.

it's a fact that this opinion on the matter also counts for absolutely nothing

The right to hold a referendum has to be the subject of an Act of Parliament in Westminster. And for the House to consider it the Government has to present a Bill to the House and then allow time for debate.

Mr Sweetcheeks doesn't have say in THAT matter ...

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

" oh remind me how many trillions has westminester borrowed in last 6 yrs oh maybe you wash that under the carpet lol"

" and just keep your nastiness about scotland going in every comment you make ,a wee scottish saying away and boil yer heid "

Your Scottish smugness and blinkered outlook tells us all we need to know about how far down the pan Scotland has gone with the SNP.

yeah enjoy the 'Wee Baubies' courtesy of us English. You have a MIGHTY big shock coming and I was once minded to feel sorry. Not now ... Enjoy Austerity...

RACIST.

That is twice you have done that. There won't be a third I promise you.

Explain how I am a racist when the vast majority of Scots are white Caucasian as I am?

Have I picked on any race or creed?

Where have I slagged off Scotland?

Where have I slagged off Scottish people just for being 'Scottish'?

I admire the Scottish people and have served with some great men and I love Scotland for reasons I will not go into suffice to say there is a part of Scotland that will forever be of my family.

All as I have explained twice now and in detail."

you continue to slag off the people of Scotland, you continue to slag of the party that is in power due to the majority of Scots voting them in and you continue to name the people of Scotland "Jocks" absolutely no difference from using the "N" word

hang your head in shame

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By *otlovefun42Couple
over a year ago

Costa Blanca Spain...

the EU wouldn't

Why? As I said above, they've done it for Denmark, so why not us? So many Brexiters are always saying how the EU will bend to our will, so why not?

what??

You say that the EU wouldn't like it, but why wouldn't they like it? There is already a precedent set for it by Denmark. If they let Denmark do it, why wouldn't they let the UK do it?

you don't get the EU and how it works at all do you?

But using your example, do you think they would let the Faroes and Greenland join if Denmark left?

Nobody knows what will happen until negotiations start im pretty hopefull lots of countries would welcome scotland into the eu

but there are 2 at least in Spain and France who wouldn't, so thats it, game over

Your talking rubbish as no negotiations have started yet "

Trust me, the Spanish position is non negotiable.

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By *otlovefun42Couple
over a year ago

Costa Blanca Spain...

"That is true but only so far.

Scotland is fully entitled to choose independence but those who pay the bills should also have some say in the matter.

as already stated as absolute fact your opinion on this matter counts for nothing

I think the bill payers will beg to differ.

this ficticious group can beg all they fucking well want .... the absolute fact is their and your opinion on this matter counts for absolutely nothing

This fictitious group ( the UK tax payer) doesn't need to beg because a Scottish referendum can't happen without westminsters consent I believe.

it's a fact that this opinion on the matter also counts for absolutely nothing

Scotland cannot decide on whether, or when, to hold a referendum. It is in the gift of the British government who will be the only ones to decide.

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By *i_garyMan
over a year ago

glasgow

The Scottish people have made their decision, and that was to stay in the Union.

Also experience tells me, and you can see it on this thread, there's no point bringing finances into the discussion as most Nats either don't understand them or don't care about them.

A bit of a sidetrack here as well but I think the grievance machine that is the SNP give a false impression to those down South that we are all angry nationalists who disagree with everything that comes from England. That couldn't be further from the truth and an example was shown today in parliament where an SNP mp said the govt should respect the wishes of the Scottish people not to renew trident (SNP mp's aren't allowed to disagree with any party policy so they are all against it) when the latest ICM poll shows 43% in favour of retaining it and 42% against with the rest undecided.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

" you continue to slag off the people of Scotland"

Where?

" you continue to slag of the party that is in power due to the majority of Scots voting them in"

Yes a majority that decreased at the last SMP election. Since when was a political criticism 'racist'? So when I have a pop at Labour I am slagging of England? really?

" and you continue to name the people of Scotland "Jocks" absolutely no difference from using the "N" word

hang your head in shame"

You are fucking joking ... this is a wind up yeah? I am copy / pasting your comments on to an email to one of my best mates. His nickname amongst us drivers? 'Jock'.....

I wonder if Taffy will want a copy ...

I will hang NOTHING in shame... its you played the 'Racist' card like all the other nobodies who lose an argument or want to move the discussion.

Shame on you Old Son (and that wasn't meant in any racist way ...

)

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By *ane DTV/TS
over a year ago

London

Oh, you should have been here in 2014.

No true scot, quizling, traitor, uncle jock, cringer and a long list of put downs were directed at anyone who dared point at flaws in the "great white dream" laid out in "Scotlands Future".

And the crazy thing is, Mr Salmond was given the choice of date, electorate, question and the support of the Scottish Civil Service to put forth our place in HIStory.

Somehow he failed, now it's fault of those who saw through the honeyed words, outright lies and at times - down right intimidation.

Snp always in denial, still nothing positive

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

" you continue to slag off the people of Scotland

Where?

you continue to slag of the party that is in power due to the majority of Scots voting them in

Yes a majority that decreased at the last SMP election. Since when was a political criticism 'racist'? So when I have a pop at Labour I am slagging of England? really?

and you continue to name the people of Scotland "Jocks" absolutely no difference from using the "N" word

hang your head in shame

You are fucking joking ... this is a wind up yeah? I am copy / pasting your comments on to an email to one of my best mates. His nickname amongst us drivers? 'Jock'.....

I wonder if Taffy will want a copy ...

I will hang NOTHING in shame... its you played the 'Racist' card like all the other nobodies who lose an argument or want to move the discussion.

Shame on you Old Son (and that wasn't meant in any racist way ...

If you continue to Call Scots - "Jocks" I am offended and consider it a racist act, stop it now

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By *LCCCouple
over a year ago

Cambridge

" oh remind me how many trillions has westminester borrowed in last 6 yrs oh maybe you wash that under the carpet lol"

" and just keep your nastiness about scotland going in every comment you make ,a wee scottish saying away and boil yer heid "

Your Scottish smugness and blinkered outlook tells us all we need to know about how far down the pan Scotland has gone with the SNP.

yeah enjoy the 'Wee Baubies' courtesy of us English. You have a MIGHTY big shock coming and I was once minded to feel sorry. Not now ... Enjoy Austerity...

RACIST.

That is twice you have done that. There won't be a third I promise you.

Explain how I am a racist when the vast majority of Scots are white Caucasian as I am?

Have I picked on any race or creed?

Where have I slagged off Scotland?

Where have I slagged off Scottish people just for being 'Scottish'?

I admire the Scottish people and have served with some great men and I love Scotland for reasons I will not go into suffice to say there is a part of Scotland that will forever be of my family.

All as I have explained twice now and in detail.

hang your head in shame"

But on the other thread (regarding BoJo) I was told that if person 1 says something racist and person 2 says "that's racist" its actually person 2 who supposedly the racist. Or have we moved the goal posts again just for little old me?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

" oh remind me how many trillions has westminester borrowed in last 6 yrs oh maybe you wash that under the carpet lol"

" and just keep your nastiness about scotland going in every comment you make ,a wee scottish saying away and boil yer heid "

Your Scottish smugness and blinkered outlook tells us all we need to know about how far down the pan Scotland has gone with the SNP.

yeah enjoy the 'Wee Baubies' courtesy of us English. You have a MIGHTY big shock coming and I was once minded to feel sorry. Not now ... Enjoy Austerity...

RACIST.

That is twice you have done that. There won't be a third I promise you.

Explain how I am a racist when the vast majority of Scots are white Caucasian as I am?

Have I picked on any race or creed?

Where have I slagged off Scotland?

Where have I slagged off Scottish people just for being 'Scottish'?

I admire the Scottish people and have served with some great men and I love Scotland for reasons I will not go into suffice to say there is a part of Scotland that will forever be of my family.

All as I have explained twice now and in detail.

hang your head in shame

He has called me 'RACIST' twice in two separate Threads so I am defending myself against a false accusation.

No goal posts moved just you trying to cause another argument and failed...

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

" you continue to slag off the people of Scotland

Where?

you continue to slag of the party that is in power due to the majority of Scots voting them in

Yes a majority that decreased at the last SMP election. Since when was a political criticism 'racist'? So when I have a pop at Labour I am slagging of England? really?

and you continue to name the people of Scotland "Jocks" absolutely no difference from using the "N" word

hang your head in shame

You are fucking joking ... this is a wind up yeah? I am copy / pasting your comments on to an email to one of my best mates. His nickname amongst us drivers? 'Jock'.....

I wonder if Taffy will want a copy ...

I will hang NOTHING in shame... its you played the 'Racist' card like all the other nobodies who lose an argument or want to move the discussion.

Shame on you Old Son (and that wasn't meant in any racist way ...

)

If you continue to Call Scots - "Jocks" I am offended and consider it a racist act, stop it now"

My mate Jock in Cambridge just replied to my email. I cannot copy what he said as I am sure your parents were married when you were born ...

Can I suggest you never get anywhere near any military people? I fear your sensibilities may be offended ...

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By *otlovefun42Couple
over a year ago

Costa Blanca Spain...

" you continue to slag off the people of Scotland

Where?

you continue to slag of the party that is in power due to the majority of Scots voting them in

Yes a majority that decreased at the last SMP election. Since when was a political criticism 'racist'? So when I have a pop at Labour I am slagging of England? really?

and you continue to name the people of Scotland "Jocks" absolutely no difference from using the "N" word

hang your head in shame

You are fucking joking ... this is a wind up yeah? I am copy / pasting your comments on to an email to one of my best mates. His nickname amongst us drivers? 'Jock'.....

I wonder if Taffy will want a copy ...

I will hang NOTHING in shame... its you played the 'Racist' card like all the other nobodies who lose an argument or want to move the discussion.

Shame on you Old Son (and that wasn't meant in any racist way ...

)

If you continue to Call Scots - "Jocks" I am offended and consider it a racist act, stop it now"

Come on. Lighten up a bit. It could have been worse.

He could have called you a "sweaty"

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

" you continue to slag off the people of Scotland

Where?

you continue to slag of the party that is in power due to the majority of Scots voting them in

Yes a majority that decreased at the last SMP election. Since when was a political criticism 'racist'? So when I have a pop at Labour I am slagging of England? really?

and you continue to name the people of Scotland "Jocks" absolutely no difference from using the "N" word

hang your head in shame

You are fucking joking ... this is a wind up yeah? I am copy / pasting your comments on to an email to one of my best mates. His nickname amongst us drivers? 'Jock'.....

I wonder if Taffy will want a copy ...

I will hang NOTHING in shame... its you played the 'Racist' card like all the other nobodies who lose an argument or want to move the discussion.

Shame on you Old Son (and that wasn't meant in any racist way ...

)

If you continue to Call Scots - "Jocks" I am offended and consider it a racist act, stop it now"

What a load of old cobblers - Jock has never, ever been an offensive term. The word "racist" has so little meaning these days through people using it in ignorance.

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By *ane DTV/TS
over a year ago

London

Easiest way is to just ignore him.

He's not worth expending Oxygen on.

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By *horehouseCouple
over a year ago

dissatisfied

"Easiest way is to just ignore him.

He's not worth expending Oxygen on."

That Horney as is always making stupid arguments continually posts lying untrue crap just ignore him ...

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By *horehouseCouple
over a year ago

dissatisfied

"Easiest way is to just ignore him.

He's not worth expending Oxygen on."

That Horney as is always making stupid arguments continually posts lying untrue crap just ignore him ...

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

There is technically no such country as Scotland.... Or for that matter Wales or England!.

It's the UK were not a union of sovereign countries were a sovereign state in its own right and have been for a long time!.

One national parliament

One central bank

One currency

One citizenship... Called British!

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By *horehouseCouple
over a year ago

dissatisfied

[Removed by poster at 18/07/16 21:26:13]

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By *horehouseCouple
over a year ago

dissatisfied

[Removed by poster at 18/07/16 21:28:38]

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By *horehouseCouple
over a year ago

dissatisfied

Yes, Scotland is a country. It's worth looking at the definition in Wikipedia: "a distinct entity in political geography . . . may be an independent sovereign state or one that is occupied by another state, as a non-sovereign or formerly sovereign political division, or a geographic region associated with sets of previously independent or differently associated peoples with distinct political characteristic

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Yes, Scotland is a country. It's worth looking at the definition in Wikipedia: "a distinct entity in political geography . . . may be an independent sovereign state or one that is occupied by another state, as a non-sovereign or formerly sovereign political division, or a geographic region associated with sets of previously independent or differently associated peoples with distinct political characteristic"
.

It's about as much as a country as Texas is or Alaska...ie it's not

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Excuse me gents, but I felt it time to butt in.

The Remainers are intentionally trying to be devisive and you have let them drive a wedge between you. May I suggest shaking hands and making up.

Alternatively wash your dirty linen in private

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By *horehouseCouple
over a year ago

dissatisfied

It's about as much as a country as Texas is or Alaska...ie it's not"

It has always been a country ....always will be

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By *horehouseCouple
over a year ago

dissatisfied

It's about as much as a country as Texas is or Alaska...ie it's not

It has always been a country ....always will be "

Arguably, Scotland is one of the most clearly defined countries in Europe, in terms of borders (sea on three sides), history (as a formerly independent state), culture, language and literature, topography, economy etc. etc. The borders of most European states, for example France, Germany, Poland, Austria, have been subject to far greater historical shifts (enlargements, contractions etc.) than Scotland

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By *andACouple
over a year ago

glasgow

It's about as much as a country as Texas is or Alaska...ie it's not"

If that was the case then England wouldn't be a country either. Both are countries within a political union

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

It's about as much as a country as Texas is or Alaska...ie it's not

If that was the case then England wouldn't be a country either. Both are countries within a political union"
.

Read my original post, I said Wales and England aren't country's!.

Were not in a political union, the UK is a sovereign state, the same as if the EU decide to unite one country all the members cease to be country's just like Texas isn't a country or Alaska because there not in a political union but a bleeding union union

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By *horehouseCouple
over a year ago

dissatisfied

It's about as much as a country as Texas is or Alaska...ie it's not

If that was the case then England wouldn't be a country either. Both are countries within a political union.

Read my original post, I said Wales and England aren't country's!.

I would suggest you use the internet for research

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Countries_of_the_United_Kingdom

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By *inkyHnSCouple
over a year ago

The Council of Elrond

"Ah, so Sturgeon's master plan is to keep going to referendum until she gets the result she wants. Child like behaviour.

If Scotland want to join the EU they would need to be independant a minimum of about 5 years, meeting EU criteria for 3 consecutive years prior. Then they'd have to accept the Euro.

I can't see any sane, proud patriotic Scot signing up to that, but I could be wrong."

I have to correct you alittle no Scotland wouldnt have to accept the Euro Sweden and Poland are in the EU but they are still using their own currency and they is talk up here in Scotland we could use the Scottish pound in an independent Scotland.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Ah, so Sturgeon's master plan is to keep going to referendum until she gets the result she wants. Child like behaviour.

If Scotland want to join the EU they would need to be independant a minimum of about 5 years, meeting EU criteria for 3 consecutive years prior. Then they'd have to accept the Euro.

I can't see any sane, proud patriotic Scot signing up to that, but I could be wrong.

If independent Scotland can use the Scottish pound, I do not disagree in the least bit.

I am saying that as a new member of the EU Scotland would have to accept the Euro.

I would like Scotland to remain in the UK but would wish them the best if they were to go it alone as it would be a long hard slog.

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By *inkyHnSCouple
over a year ago

The Council of Elrond

"Ah, so Sturgeon's master plan is to keep going to referendum until she gets the result she wants. Child like behaviour.

If Scotland want to join the EU they would need to be independant a minimum of about 5 years, meeting EU criteria for 3 consecutive years prior. Then they'd have to accept the Euro.

I can't see any sane, proud patriotic Scot signing up to that, but I could be wrong.

If independent Scotland can use the Scottish pound, I do not disagree in the least bit.

I am saying that as a new member of the EU Scotland would have to accept the Euro.

I would like Scotland to remain in the UK but would wish them the best if they were to go it alone as it would be a long hard slog."

Did Sweden have to accept the Euro ? Did Poland there is more.

Its good to see people wish us in Scotland well if we do choice to leave the UK its never been about an old war Scotland vs England its simply about our voices being heard which alot of us feel Westminster aint listening to us We never voted Tory yet we have a Tory government telling us we have to accept cuts give us watered down extra powers when we were promised Home Rule which i believe every country in the UK should get Home Rule god knows England should get their own parliament

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

It's about as much as a country as Texas is or Alaska...ie it's not

If that was the case then England wouldn't be a country either. Both are countries within a political union.

Read my original post, I said Wales and England aren't country's!.

I would suggest you use the internet for research

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Countries_of_the_United_Kingdom"
.

I read this bit !.

England, Northern Ireland, Scotland and Wales are not themselves listed in the International Organization for Standardization (ISO) list of countries. However the ISO list of the subdivisions of the UK, compiled by British Standards and the UK's Office for National Statistics, uses "country" to describe England, Scotland and Wales.[5] Northern Ireland, in contrast, is described as a "province" in the same lists.[5] Each have separate national governing bodies for sports and compete separately in many international sporting competitions, including the Commonwealth Games. Northern Ireland also forms joint All-Island sporting bodies with the Republic of Ireland for most sports, including rugby union.[6]

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Did you notice the way they put .. Use "country" to describe them... That's because "technically" there not fucking "countries"

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By *inkyHnSCouple
over a year ago

The Council of Elrond

"Did you notice the way they put .. Use "country" to describe them... That's because "technically" there not fucking "countries"

UK - 4 nations/countries make up the United Kingdom

Britain is an island mass

So Scotland is a country not a region of England

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By *inkyHnSCouple
over a year ago

The Council of Elrond

And when the Act of the union was signed it was signed on faith that Scotland and England would be equal partners 300 years on and i doubt that correct

Tonight's only goes to prove it

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Did you notice the way they put .. Use "country" to describe them... That's because "technically" there not fucking "countries"

UK - 4 nations/countries make up the United Kingdom

Britain is an island mass

So Scotland is a country not a region of England "
.

I said England isn't a country how Scotland be a region of England when England isn't a bleeding country... Passport British, nationality British, army British, NATO UK, un UK, EU UK, trade policies UK, parliament UK,... No England no Scotland no Wales...

Three states unionised to make one sovereign country.... The UK.

The isle of Mann has a parliament always has in fact I think it's the oldest parliament in Europe... Still not a fucking "country" ... "Technically"

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By *issing in actionWoman
over a year ago

Llanelli

Scotland and Wales were independent countries long before what we now call the English came over here!

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Scotland and Wales were independent countries long before what we now call the English came over here!"
.

If you count being a peasant in a kingdom independent then go right ahead!

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

On the Poland and Sweden currency issue:

"Poland does not use the euro as its currency. However, under the terms of their Treaty of Accession 2003 with the European Union, all new Member States "shall participate in the Economic and Monetary Union from the date of accession as a Member State with a derogation", which means that Poland is obliged to replace its currency, the zloty, with the euro"

"Sweden joined the European Union in 1995 and has not yet adopted the Euro, but in accordance with the Treaty it will do so once it meets the necessary conditions."

Should Scotland gain independence it will be a Nation outside the EU. It will have to adopt whatever trade agreement it can agree with the EU and indeed every other Nation of the world as it did not previously exist as a Sovereign Nation State and therefore held no trade agreements. Unlike the UK with whom or on behalf of whom all treaties and agreements were made.

Scotland will have meet the joining criteria if it wishes to join the EU and if accepted then on entry to the EU it will have to adopt all EU legislation and enter into lengthy negotiations and accept the Euro under its Treaty of Accession.

http://europa.eu/about-eu/countries/joining-eu/index_en.htm

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By *LCCCouple
over a year ago

Cambridge

"Ah, so Sturgeon's master plan is to keep going to referendum until she gets the result she wants. Child like behaviour.

If Scotland want to join the EU they would need to be independant a minimum of about 5 years, meeting EU criteria for 3 consecutive years prior. Then they'd have to accept the Euro.

I can't see any sane, proud patriotic Scot signing up to that, but I could be wrong.

If independent Scotland can use the Scottish pound, I do not disagree in the least bit.

I am saying that as a new member of the EU Scotland would have to accept the Euro.

I would like Scotland to remain in the UK but would wish them the best if they were to go it alone as it would be a long hard slog.

Did Sweden have to accept the Euro ? Did Poland there is more.

I think it's a fallacy to believe that just because a parliament is closer to you, that you will get all of your political wishes granted. There are plenty of English people who dont like what happens in parliament, and people in the other parts of the UK who are dissatisfied with the devolved powers. You wouldn't want to phone for an ambulance in Wales for example.

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By *inkyHnSCouple
over a year ago

The Council of Elrond

"On the Poland and Sweden currency issue:

"Sweden joined the European Union in 1995 and has not yet adopted the Euro, but in accordance with the Treaty it will do so once it meets the necessary conditions."

http://europa.eu/about-eu/countries/joining-eu/index_en.htm"

Yet hear we are in 2016 and still Sweden and Poland use their own currency they were never forced to adopt the Euro all an EU member has to do to stay out of the Euro is not sign up for ERM2

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

The greatest thing that ever happened to the people of Scotland Wales and England was the amalgamation of our three countries into one sovereign state!.

I'd have voted remain tomorrow if somebody had offered me a united states of Europe!.

This very thread shows why you'll never get it, we've been unionised for 300 years and still we call ourselves Scottish English or welsh.... It's Scottish oil for Scotland it's English wealth for England....

If you can't get over that in 300 fucking years the EU has got no chance of making it as a united states of Europe!

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Bring back the war of the roses let's go back to counties

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Do you think that'll be difficult for Scotland? Only, the other day someone on here said it would be really easy for the UK to adopt existing trade treaties that it wasn't already a party to - just like TUPE I think he said - so why wouldn't it be really easy for an independent Scotland to do that too? They could just take a copy of the UK agreement and cross out 'United Kingdom' and write in 'Scotland'.

Simples.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Simples.

Because, oh smug and sarcastic one, Scotland was not a signatory to the UK Treaty of Accession in 1973. The UK was. And therefore all trade agreements the EU has negotiated on our behalf since, as part of the EU, is in the UK's name (and it has not negotiated every trade agreement the UK holds). We trade with 3rd countries outside the EU as 'The UK' not 'Scotland' or 'Wales' or even 'England'.

So therefore, oh nitpicking and word bending, one Scotland has absolutely NO standing in International Trade terms. It does not have a seat on the WTO. It does not even have 1/28th of the EU seat at the WTO. The UK always had a full seat but was barred from using it. Scotland will therefore have to craft completely new agreements where the UK can replace the EU as signatory. Just like a Transfer of Undertakings...

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By *LCCCouple
over a year ago

Cambridge

Simples.

yeah, who cares if the other country wants to trade on the deals or not anymore, just get the tipex out and we can have those international treaties sorted in a jiffy

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Bring back the war of the roses let's go back to counties

Back to the middle ages?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Oh shock horror, someone immediately goes for the personal attack. Quelle surprise, reverend.

That would be the same person who would sermonise at great length about how it's not the countries that trade with the rest of the world, it's companies.

Oh and by the way you were discussing what would happen for an independent Scotland. In which case the 1973 act would be null and void. But hey you carry on twisting words and pretending you wrote something different.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

In case you forgot already you wrote:

"Should Scotland gain independence it will be a Nation outside the EU.

All that independent Scotland needs is copies of those good old UK agreements and a shed load of tipp-ex and away they go.

Simples

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Scotland has absolutely NO standing in International Trade terms. It does not have a seat on the WTO. "

This makes no difference at all. A country doesn't have to be a member of the WTO to make trade agreements. Go check - not all countries are WTO members. The WTO's position is to defend countries against unfair trading - that includes countries that aren't members otherwise it would be unfair wouldn't it?

If Scotland was an independent nation it could appy to join the WTO as can "Any state or customs territory having full autonomy in the conduct of its trade policies". Mind you it might be quicker to negotiate entry to the EU - the WTO seems to work at a glacial pace.

Besides, whether in or out of the WTO, Scotland would be judged by potential trading partners on the value of its trade and the type of things it had to trade. As would any other country.

Buy BIC shares now (they own Tipp-Ex)

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

*** Other brands of correction fluid are available ***

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