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"Is the new PM" Probably just as well becaus if Leadsom show signs of stress now she would not last 5 mins as a PM | |||
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"Is the new PM Probably just as well becaus if Leadsom show signs of stress now she would not last 5 mins as a PM" She did not show any signs of stress throughout a long and harrowing EU Referendum campaign. I had the privilege of meeting her and Gove and saw the ability, clarity of thought and determination in that lady. What has happened is that the Establishment media, led by the Times and the BBC, carried out a hatchet job by manipulating some genuinely held beliefs about future generations in an inter_iew in which she clearly stated her comments were NOT about Theresa and her. After all this is the woman that gave up a very rewarding career and created Charities that focused attention on the critical early years of a child's life and how poverty adversely affected their life chances. Brexiters like me are now seeing the changes we voted for being slowly pushed aside by the Established Interests and Civil Service who will now quietly ignore the wishes of over 17 million people. Same shit different day in Britain ... | |||
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"Is the new PM Probably just as well becaus if Leadsom show signs of stress now she would not last 5 mins as a PM She did not show any signs of stress throughout a long and harrowing EU Referendum campaign. I had the privilege of meeting her and Gove and saw the ability, clarity of thought and determination in that lady. What has happened is that the Establishment media, led by the Times and the BBC, carried out a hatchet job by manipulating some genuinely held beliefs about future generations in an inter_iew in which she clearly stated her comments were NOT about Theresa and her. After all this is the woman that gave up a very rewarding career and created Charities that focused attention on the critical early years of a child's life and how poverty adversely affected their life chances. Brexiters like me are now seeing the changes we voted for being slowly pushed aside by the Established Interests and Civil Service who will now quietly ignore the wishes of over 17 million people. Same shit different day in Britain ..." Jeez thats the second time you mentioned you met her lol....shes buckled under the pressure and shes the weakest link...as they say goodbye  | |||
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"From what I've seen and read this isn't a good thing is it?" Best possible choice for the country http://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/falling-pound-is-world-s-weakest-major-currency-3m59nwt0l All looking Rosie in the garden http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/brexit-legal-challenge-launched-businesses-move-to-block-eu-exit-without-act-of-parliament-a7118186.html | |||
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"Is the new PM Probably just as well becaus if Leadsom show signs of stress now she would not last 5 mins as a PM She did not show any signs of stress throughout a long and harrowing EU Referendum campaign. I had the privilege of meeting her and Gove and saw the ability, clarity of thought and determination in that lady. What has happened is that the Establishment media, led by the Times and the BBC, carried out a hatchet job by manipulating some genuinely held beliefs about future generations in an inter_iew in which she clearly stated her comments were NOT about Theresa and her. After all this is the woman that gave up a very rewarding career and created Charities that focused attention on the critical early years of a child's life and how poverty adversely affected their life chances. Brexiters like me are now seeing the changes we voted for being slowly pushed aside by the Established Interests and Civil Service who will now quietly ignore the wishes of over 17 million people. Same shit different day in Britain ..." Spin it as much as you like but it wasn't how your now trying to portray it.. If it was as you suggest then why did she apologise to May? The CV embellishments would have been next to have had further scrutiny and rightly so.. She wasn't ready for it and it was becoming more apparent that she just doesn't have the experience and is lacking in judgement for the job.. | |||
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"Chris Grayling is busy laying the foundations for the Tory party coming together gig..." Are Dereem going to perform at it | |||
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"Is the new PM Probably just as well becaus if Leadsom show signs of stress now she would not last 5 mins as a PM She did not show any signs of stress throughout a long and harrowing EU Referendum campaign. I had the privilege of meeting her and Gove and saw the ability, clarity of thought and determination in that lady. What has happened is that the Establishment media, led by the Times and the BBC, carried out a hatchet job by manipulating some genuinely held beliefs about future generations in an inter_iew in which she clearly stated her comments were NOT about Theresa and her. After all this is the woman that gave up a very rewarding career and created Charities that focused attention on the critical early years of a child's life and how poverty adversely affected their life chances. Brexiters like me are now seeing the changes we voted for being slowly pushed aside by the Established Interests and Civil Service who will now quietly ignore the wishes of over 17 million people. Same shit different day in Britain ..." Ever get the feeling you've been cheated? | |||
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"Is the new PM Probably just as well becaus if Leadsom show signs of stress now she would not last 5 mins as a PM She did not show any signs of stress throughout a long and harrowing EU Referendum campaign. I had the privilege of meeting her and Gove and saw the ability, clarity of thought and determination in that lady. What has happened is that the Establishment media, led by the Times and the BBC, carried out a hatchet job by manipulating some genuinely held beliefs about future generations in an inter_iew in which she clearly stated her comments were NOT about Theresa and her. After all this is the woman that gave up a very rewarding career and created Charities that focused attention on the critical early years of a child's life and how poverty adversely affected their life chances. Brexiters like me are now seeing the changes we voted for being slowly pushed aside by the Established Interests and Civil Service who will now quietly ignore the wishes of over 17 million people. Same shit different day in Britain ... Ever get the feeling you've been cheated?" I've had the onstage clip of John Lydon saying that playing in my head a lot since the referendum. | |||
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"Theresa is the new pm and she voted remain, so we know what she is kind of thinking about, which is good "So you think she will go against the majority even though she has stated quite clearly today that out means out and we are out? | |||
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"Theresa is the new pm and she voted remain, so we know what she is kind of thinking about, which is good
So you think she will go against the majority even though she has stated quite clearly today that out means out and we are out?"Yes I think she will do it in the end, maibe not straight away, as we know, politicians say anything to get the position, don't they? | |||
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"So May means remain, yes?" Not sure, but the politics she will put forward, would be better, than a brexit pm would. | |||
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"So May means remain, yes?" No. May will lead us into the bright new future | |||
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"So May means remain, yes?Not sure, but the politics she will put forward, would be better, than a brexit pm would." She isn't stupid and knows that going against the will of the country after saying that she backs it would be the end of her political life. | |||
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"So May means remain, yes?" Not from what she has been saying since after the vote.. | |||
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"So May means remain, yes? Not from what she has been saying since after the vote.. " I agree, I can't see how she could u turn without committing political suicide | |||
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"She will leave the eu but she will draw it out as long as she can before invoking article 50" Out with a Norway type deal from PM may I think .... | |||
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"She will leave the eu but she will draw it out as long as she can before invoking article 50 Out with a Norway type deal from PM may I think ...." Just cos it works in norway, it doesn't necessarily mean it will work here tho. | |||
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"She will leave the eu but she will draw it out as long as she can before invoking article 50 Out with a Norway type deal from PM may I think ....Just cos it works in norway, it doesn't necessarily mean it will work here tho." Quite right but better than having nothing in place ..and might work quite well for the foreseeable future post brexit .. | |||
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"She will leave the eu but she will draw it out as long as she can before invoking article 50 Out with a Norway type deal from PM may I think ....Just cos it works in norway, it doesn't necessarily mean it will work here tho. Quite right but better than having nothing in place ..and might work quite well for the foreseeable future post brexit .." That is right, as it is better to have a plan than no plan at all. | |||
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"From what I've seen and read this isn't a good thing is it? Best possible choice for the country http://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/falling-pound-is-world-s-weakest-major-currency-3m59nwt0l All looking Rosie in the garden http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/brexit-legal-challenge-launched-businesses-move-to-block-eu-exit-without-act-of-parliament-a7118186.html" | |||
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"It's an odd feeling when you are relieved that someone as illiberal and hard-hearted as Thersesa May gets to be Prime Minister. Politics is so weird these days." | |||
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"From what I've seen and read this isn't a good thing is it? Best possible choice for the country http://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/falling-pound-is-world-s-weakest-major-currency-3m59nwt0l All looking Rosie in the garden http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/brexit-legal-challenge-launched-businesses-move-to-block-eu-exit-without-act-of-parliament-a7118186.html" But it stands to reason that the pound would drop given the choice to leave and we have already seen it rise plus I don't see that jobs would have been created if we had stayed in the EU. As to the second article, I don't see that someone who voted to remain is the best or right person to lead us out and I think she will milk the time frame as long as she can that's if she doesn't revoke the vote. | |||
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"It's an odd feeling when you are relieved that someone as illiberal and hard-hearted as Thersesa May gets to be Prime Minister. Politics is so weird these days." I so understand that sentiment. That said, it has been the final straw for me to question a lifelong allegiance that for the last few years has been fading. I have to now admit that conservative policies no longer reflect my core beliefs. | |||
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"From what I've seen and read this isn't a good thing is it? Best possible choice for the country http://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/falling-pound-is-world-s-weakest-major-currency-3m59nwt0l All looking Rosie in the garden http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/brexit-legal-challenge-launched-businesses-move-to-block-eu-exit-without-act-of-parliament-a7118186.html But it stands to reason that the pound would drop given the choice to leave and we have already seen it rise plus I don't see that jobs would have been created if we had stayed in the EU. ." I was inter_iewed for a job the other day at a university campus built with £95 million of EU money. I know we pay in, but that area has received more than its proportion back. EU funding has been a big driver for employment opportunities in the area. I'm still unconvinced a UK government (particularly a right-wing one, and I say that as someone who isn't particularly a leftie) will show the same commitment to such areas longer term. | |||
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"It's an odd feeling when you are relieved that someone as illiberal and hard-hearted as Thersesa May gets to be Prime Minister. Politics is so weird these days. I so understand that sentiment. That said, it has been the final straw for me to question a lifelong allegiance that for the last few years has been fading. I have to now admit that conservative policies no longer reflect my core beliefs." I have to say I've noted your posts with interest. I remember you posting very stridently (that's not a criticism!) about people's need for self-responsibility and development) on a number of occasions. I read them with interest. Didn't always agree, but they gave food for thought. I moved your way a fair bit over the years, but was still more a "collectivist", especially after working in one of the most economically deprived as reason the UK for years I always imagined you were very much to the right of the Tory party and called your stance on the EU completely wrong. I'm trying to think where you might head now! | |||
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"It's an odd feeling when you are relieved that someone as illiberal and hard-hearted as Thersesa May gets to be Prime Minister. Politics is so weird these days. I so understand that sentiment. That said, it has been the final straw for me to question a lifelong allegiance that for the last few years has been fading. I have to now admit that conservative policies no longer reflect my core beliefs. I have to say I've noted your posts with interest. I remember you posting very stridently (that's not a criticism!) about people's need for self-responsibility and development) on a number of occasions. I read them with interest. Didn't always agree, but they gave food for thought. I moved your way a fair bit over the years, but was still more a "collectivist", especially after working in one of the most economically deprived as reason the UK for years I always imagined you were very much to the right of the Tory party and called your stance on the EU completely wrong. I'm trying to think where you might head now! " I have never been right wing anything, albeit I am a believer in lower taxation, self dependency and small government. Actually, I admired how the Lib Dems conducted themselves whilst in coalition and i like how Tim Fallon conducts himself. I suppose that having liberal personal _iews aligns itself with having more liberal political _iews. I think it is impossible to have all your bases covered and life generally is about compromise. | |||
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"It's an odd feeling when you are relieved that someone as illiberal and hard-hearted as Thersesa May gets to be Prime Minister. Politics is so weird these days. I so understand that sentiment. That said, it has been the final straw for me to question a lifelong allegiance that for the last few years has been fading. I have to now admit that conservative policies no longer reflect my core beliefs. I have to say I've noted your posts with interest. I remember you posting very stridently (that's not a criticism!) about people's need for self-responsibility and development) on a number of occasions. I read them with interest. Didn't always agree, but they gave food for thought. I moved your way a fair bit over the years, but was still more a "collectivist", especially after working in one of the most economically deprived as reason the UK for years I always imagined you were very much to the right of the Tory party and called your stance on the EU completely wrong. I'm trying to think where you might head now! I have never been right wing anything, albeit I am a believer in lower taxation, self dependency and small government. Actually, I admired how the Lib Dems conducted themselves whilst in coalition and i like how Tim Fallon conducts himself. I suppose that having liberal personal _iews aligns itself with having more liberal political _iews. I think it is impossible to have all your bases covered and life generally is about compromise." Ah, interesting. I didn't mean right wing in a bad way - I hope it didn't come across like that. It's tended to be the Tories who've emphasised those values you mention, well at least that's my perception! Right of centre might have been a better term. I actually have an unpopular theory about the Lib Dems. They've been slaughtered in recent years, but I think they had an important role to play from 2010-2015 and I think history will judge Clegg and his ilk better than we suspect. Anyway, I'm conscious I'm taking this thread off at a bit of a tangent! | |||
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" I was inter_iewed for a job the other day at a university campus built with £95 million of EU money. I know we pay in, but that area has received more than its proportion back. EU funding has been a big driver for employment opportunities in the area. " I can understand why people are drawn towards your _iews. They see the blue flag and think 'Wow how generous'. But the simple fact remains the UK only receives that money because we pay in. £95 million is about 2% of the average the EU 'spends' here (I prefer the term 'recycles') and is about 0.7% of the £13.2 Bn a year on average we have been paying in. There is no reason why any UK Government of any persuasion would halt that funding especially as we drive towards our new position in the world. The UK is the best at innovation, new technologies and research. Where we haven't been so good is converting new technologies into commercial successes. What you maybe do not realise is just as the EU recycles our money back here the money we pay in also funds huge projects in the rest of the EU who then use that funding to compete against our UK businesses. For example: Look in any layby or service area or truckstop in the UK and you will see thousands of trucks registered in the east of the EU mainly Poland. Where do you think all the cash came from to fund all those new trucks? The EU from its 'Cohesian' (and other) funding which made Poland the biggest Nett and Gross beneficiary (over E16 Bn in 2013) at a time when the UK was the second largest Nett contributor. British hauliers have to borrow on commercial terms, pay minimum wages, maintain their trucks, have dedicated Operating Centres and operate legally under Traffic Commissioners or lose their businesses. Foreigners just bypass all that, have lower costs and undercut local hauliers. Just a small example but it shows how the EU therefore distorts competition internally by selective funding. Funding a University campus is a great idea but all is not what it seems. | |||
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" I was inter_iewed for a job the other day at a university campus built with £95 million of EU money. I know we pay in, but that area has received more than its proportion back. EU funding has been a big driver for employment opportunities in the area. I can understand why people are drawn towards your _iews. They see the blue flag and think 'Wow how generous'. But the simple fact remains the UK only receives that money because we pay in. £95 million is about 2% of the average the EU 'spends' here (I prefer the term 'recycles') and is about 0.7% of the £13.2 Bn a year on average we have been paying in. There is no reason why any UK Government of any persuasion would halt that funding especially as we drive towards our new position in the world. The UK is the best at innovation, new technologies and research. Where we haven't been so good is converting new technologies into commercial successes. What you maybe do not realise is just as the EU recycles our money back here the money we pay in also funds huge projects in the rest of the EU who then use that funding to compete against our UK businesses. For example: Look in any layby or service area or truckstop in the UK and you will see thousands of trucks registered in the east of the EU mainly Poland. Where do you think all the cash came from to fund all those new trucks? The EU from its 'Cohesian' (and other) funding which made Poland the biggest Nett and Gross beneficiary (over E16 Bn in 2013) at a time when the UK was the second largest Nett contributor. British hauliers have to borrow on commercial terms, pay minimum wages, maintain their trucks, have dedicated Operating Centres and operate legally under Traffic Commissioners or lose their businesses. Foreigners just bypass all that, have lower costs and undercut local hauliers. Just a small example but it shows how the EU therefore distorts competition internally by selective funding. Funding a University campus is a great idea but all is not what it seems." In 2014-2020 the cohesion fund in Poland is targeted at projects that deal with the areas most important for the country's development. These cover: - scientific research and its commercialisation; - innovation and connections between R&D and enterprise sector; - key road connections (motorways, expressways) and environment-friendly transport (railways, public transport); - state digitalisation (administration e-services, broadband Internet access); - green energy (renewable energy sources, energy efficiency); - employment activation and social capital development. There's no project for buying trucks for polish truck drivers. There's a similar list for the previous 5 years. You can find details by googling cohesion policy in Poland (because you always need a reference). If you can find any funding for trucks in that lot, feel free to say so - my suspicion is that yet again you are making things up, but do come up with some solid evidence based on genuine legitimate use of Cohesion funds, if you can. | |||
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" There's no project for buying trucks for polish truck drivers. There's a similar list for the previous 5 years. You can find details by googling cohesion policy in Poland (because you always need a reference). If you can find any funding for trucks in that lot, feel free to say so - my suspicion is that yet again you are making things up, but do come up with some solid evidence based on genuine legitimate use of Cohesion funds, if you can. " Again you twist the words... Same old ... I never said there was an EU fund to buy trucks. I said EU money going IN to Poland from the EU (like the Cohesion fund) was being used to do that. Not all of it or that there was a designated fund. The problem that has created can be seen every day on UK roads and the number of struggling UK hauliers who now carry a very small amount of our export / Import and a reducing amount of domestic traffic. A reality of course you will neither know nor care about. But hey don't trust me just the next time you drive near you check some truck number plates. So lets look at the EU data. It is a few years out of date but given how recently to this 2012 and 2013 data Poland's joining was (2004) it makes the point very well: Populations: Poland - 38 Million UK - 65 Million Imports: Poland $197 Billion UK $643 Billion Exports: Poland $191 Billion UK $473 Billion Tractor Trucks: Poland 257,226 UK 106,165 So why does a country that has 34% of the external trade that the UK has and a population just over half the UK population need 2.4 times the number of semi-tractors? And given the state of the Polish economy (Because it qualifies for the biggest amount of EU funding in the EU) where else did all the money come from? Sources: http://www.nationmaster.com/country-info/compare/Poland/United-Kingdom/Economy and http://ec.europa.eu/eurostat/statistics-explained/index.php/Road_freight_vehicle_statistics_-_lorries,_road_tractors_and_trailers And to support my point about the unfairness of competition because the Polish trucks are not maintained: "Polish-registered vehicles and trailers accounted for the most prohibitions – although they are the single largest group by nationality of foreign-registered vehicles and accounted for 26% of all cabotage movements last year. Of these, 31.5% of the 5,799 vehicles checked and 40.7% of the 4,732 trailers stopped by enforcement officers were given a PG9." http://www.commercialmotor.com/news/polish-registered-trucks-top-dvsa-prohibition-list And do please feel free to trawl my sources and make your own points. Because I don't copy / paste 38 pages of data doesn't mean I am 'misleading' anyone.  | |||
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"What you wrote was: "Where do you think all the cash came from to fund all those new trucks?" Your answer to your own question was: "The EU from its 'Cohesian' (and other) funding which made Poland the biggest Nett and Gross beneficiary (over E16 Bn in 2013) at a time when the UK was the second largest Nett contributor". I don't care about the rest of your smoke screen. You alleged that the Cohesion fund was paying for Polish trucks. That was a straight, out and out lie and you can bluster on and deny that you wrote it, you can selectively not quote what you wrote as much as you like. A lie is a lie. " Be careful with the 'liar' accusation Old Son. Room rules and all that. There are phrases and names I SO want to call you but I am trying to keep this civil. And of course factual data and sources proving you so very wrong are a 'smoke screen'. You forgot your usual crap about 'straw men'. To say the cash came form the EU is not a lie when it clearly did. Poland never had the money did it? That is NOT to say the Cohesion fund was set up to buy new trucks as you infer. If I give someone £100 to improve their lot and they spend £50 on a new car the money for that new car came from me did it not? Your fixation on making repeated and continual personal attacks on me and my words is now getting very very tiring. I asked you to stop. I tried some levity and humour. But now I am just pissed off with your inane accusations and word twisting so you can carry on this crap. | |||
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"What you wrote was: "Where do you think all the cash came from to fund all those new trucks?" Your answer to your own question was: "The EU from its 'Cohesian' (and other) funding which made Poland the biggest Nett and Gross beneficiary (over E16 Bn in 2013) at a time when the UK was the second largest Nett contributor". I don't care about the rest of your smoke screen. You alleged that the Cohesion fund was paying for Polish trucks. That was a straight, out and out lie and you can bluster on and deny that you wrote it, you can selectively not quote what you wrote as much as you like. A lie is a lie. Be careful with the 'liar' accusation Old Son. Room rules and all that. There are phrases and names I SO want to call you but I am trying to keep this civil. And of course factual data and sources proving you so very wrong are a 'smoke screen'. You forgot your usual crap about 'straw men'. To say the cash came form the EU is not a lie when it clearly did. Poland never had the money did it? That is NOT to say the Cohesion fund was set up to buy new trucks as you infer. If I give someone £100 to improve their lot and they spend £50 on a new car the money for that new car came from me did it not? Your fixation on making repeated and continual personal attacks on me and my words is now getting very very tiring. I asked you to stop. I tried some levity and humour. But now I am just pissed off with your inane accusations and word twisting so you can carry on this crap." If forum rules say that pointing out a lie isn't allowed, I'll take the ban., Meanwhile here's what you wrote again and it's wrong. What you wrote was: "Where do you think all the cash came from to fund all those new trucks?" Your answer to your own question was: "The EU from its 'Cohesian' (and other) funding... Deliberately misleading - in other words a lie. What do you call a person who tells lies? Chalk? | |||
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 Or you are deliberately trying to deceive... now what's the name for someone who does that? | |||
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"I am out of all this. Having someone trawl over every dot and comma and make up intentions that were never there is just not on...." Just humour him. They will put him back in the padded cell eventually | |||
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"I am out of all this. Having someone trawl over every dot and comma and make up intentions that were never there is just not on.... Just humour him. They will put him back in the padded cell eventually "Quoting from you: "When your only argument is an insult you have no argument." | |||
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"I am out of all this. Having someone trawl over every dot and comma and make up intentions that were never there is just not on.... Just humour him. They will put him back in the padded cell eventually
Quoting from you: "When your only argument is an insult you have no argument.""That wasn't an insult. It was humour. Plus, incase you hadn't noticed, I wasn't having an argument with you | |||
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