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" The labour party mps tell us JC is unelectable what makes them think anyone is interested in electing tony Blairs puppets . Angela smeagle "Sorry I just wanted to check, how many general elections did Blair win, and how many did Corbyn win? Can you remind me? | |||
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"...into oblivion, where the f**k are we now!? "Remember how crap Miliband was and how everyone wanted rid of him? Well look back now and he doesn't seem that bad does he?! The Labour party is in a right mess now, but believe me, it could get a LOT worse. With our electoral system it doesn't take much for a parliamentary party to be wiped out. Look at the Lib Dems. | |||
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"...into oblivion, where the f**k are we now!?
Remember how crap Miliband was and how everyone wanted rid of him? Well look back now and he doesn't seem that bad does he?!
The Labour party is in a right mess now, but believe me, it could get a LOT worse.
With our electoral system it doesn't take much for a parliamentary party to be wiped out. Look at the Lib Dems. "Miliband was the beginning of the downfall of Labour, Every party needs a STRONG leader, Miliband was anything but strong, until all parties realise that a strong leader is required they will fall just like Westminster Labour & Scottish Labour as both have extremely weak leaders. | |||
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"The downfall of labour started as tony blair was bullied into making gordon brown the chancellor back in 97', he knew it wouldn't work. If tony would be there now, they would be a force to recon with, he is the longest winning pm, winning election after election." He's also a war criminal who should be in prison. | |||
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"The downfall of labour started as tony blair was bullied into making gordon brown the chancellor back in 97', he knew it wouldn't work. If tony would be there now, they would be a force to recon with, he is the longest winning pm, winning election after election. He's also a war criminal who should be in prison." Lying and incomptence are not war crimes. | |||
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" The labour party mps tell us JC is unelectable what makes them think anyone is interested in electing tony Blairs puppets . Angela smeagle
Sorry I just wanted to check, how many general elections did Blair win, and how many did Corbyn win? Can you remind me? "I believe it was 3 - 0 nil??? Correct me if I'm wrong but 3 in a row sounds like a Labour party record too? | |||
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"The downfall of labour started as tony blair was bullied into making gordon brown the chancellor back in 97', he knew it wouldn't work. If tony would be there now, they would be a force to recon with, he is the longest winning pm, winning election after election. He's also a war criminal who should be in prison.He is not a war criminal idiot" he lied and took us to war on spiced up documents of WMD which resulted in the deaths of thousands of troops and I believe the civilian cost of lifes was over a million. Which I believe has also led to the mess in that region and increase in terrorism. So sorry but that makes him a criminal to me so please dont call me an idiot when the facts speak for themselves. Thanks. | |||
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"The downfall of labour started as tony blair was bullied into making gordon brown the chancellor back in 97', he knew it wouldn't work. If tony would be there now, they would be a force to recon with, he is the longest winning pm, winning election after election. He's also a war criminal who should be in prison.He is not a war criminal idiot he lied and took us to war on spiced up documents of WMD which resulted in the deaths of thousands of troops and I believe the civilian cost of lifes was over a million. Which I believe has also led to the mess in that region and increase in terrorism. So sorry but that makes him a criminal to me so please dont call me an idiot when the facts speak for themselves. Thanks." But that's not what a war crime is... | |||
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"The downfall of labour started as tony blair was bullied into making gordon brown the chancellor back in 97', he knew it wouldn't work. If tony would be there now, they would be a force to recon with, he is the longest winning pm, winning election after election. He's also a war criminal who should be in prison.He is not a war criminal idiot he lied and took us to war on spiced up documents of WMD which resulted in the deaths of thousands of troops and I believe the civilian cost of lifes was over a million. Which I believe has also led to the mess in that region and increase in terrorism. So sorry but that makes him a criminal to me so please dont call me an idiot when the facts speak for themselves. Thanks. But that's not what a war crime is... " it was a crime. End of. not gonna argue over it. for me and many others he should be locked up. make excuses for the guy all you want him and bush are criminals. Good night | |||
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"The downfall of labour started as tony blair was bullied into making gordon brown the chancellor back in 97', he knew it wouldn't work. If tony would be there now, they would be a force to recon with, he is the longest winning pm, winning election after election. He's also a war criminal who should be in prison.He is not a war criminal idiot he lied and took us to war on spiced up documents of WMD which resulted in the deaths of thousands of troops and I believe the civilian cost of lifes was over a million. Which I believe has also led to the mess in that region and increase in terrorism. So sorry but that makes him a criminal to me so please dont call me an idiot when the facts speak for themselves. Thanks. But that's not what a war crime is... it was a crime. End of. not gonna argue over it. for me and many others he should be locked up. make excuses for the guy all you want him and bush are criminals. Good night" Call it a crime then not a war crime. Sorry if the English language inconveniences you. | |||
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"The downfall of labour started as tony blair was bullied into making gordon brown the chancellor back in 97', he knew it wouldn't work. If tony would be there now, they would be a force to recon with, he is the longest winning pm, winning election after election. He's also a war criminal who should be in prison.He is not a war criminal idiot he lied and took us to war on spiced up documents of WMD which resulted in the deaths of thousands of troops and I believe the civilian cost of lifes was over a million. Which I believe has also led to the mess in that region and increase in terrorism. So sorry but that makes him a criminal to me so please dont call me an idiot when the facts speak for themselves. Thanks. But that's not what a war crime is... it was a crime. End of. not gonna argue over it. for me and many others he should be locked up. make excuses for the guy all you want him and bush are criminals. Good night , Call it a crime then not a war crime. Sorry if the English language inconveniences you. " Taking the country to "war" based on lies is a "crime". Where as if he didn't do what he did hundreds of thousands would be alive today (maybe not cos bush still would have gone in). So yeah he took us to war based on lies which resulted in hundreds of thousands of needless loss of life. thats a war crime to me and I'll use what ever term I like as its my opinion. I respect your opinion on the subject so please respect mine. can't believe we are even arguing over the wording to lable what tony blair is. do you think he should be locked up or not for what he did out of curiosity? | |||
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"The downfall of labour started as tony blair was bullied into making gordon brown the chancellor back in 97', he knew it wouldn't work. If tony would be there now, they would be a force to recon with, he is the longest winning pm, winning election after election. He's also a war criminal who should be in prison.He is not a war criminal idiot he lied and took us to war on spiced up documents of WMD which resulted in the deaths of thousands of troops and I believe the civilian cost of lifes was over a million. Which I believe has also led to the mess in that region and increase in terrorism. So sorry but that makes him a criminal to me so please dont call me an idiot when the facts speak for themselves. Thanks. But that's not what a war crime is... it was a crime. End of. not gonna argue over it. for me and many others he should be locked up. make excuses for the guy all you want him and bush are criminals. Good night , Call it a crime then not a war crime. Sorry if the English language inconveniences you. Taking the country to "war" based on lies is a "crime". Where as if he didn't do what he did hundreds of thousands would be alive today (maybe not cos bush still would have gone in). So yeah he took us to war based on lies which resulted in hundreds of thousands of needless loss of life. thats a war crime to me and I'll use what ever term I like as its my opinion. I respect your opinion on the subject so please respect mine. can't believe we are even arguing over the wording to lable what tony blair is. do you think he should be locked up or not for what he did out of curiosity?" Law isn't a matter of opinions and flexible definitions. I could say that in my opinion Tim Cruise murdered the film Vanilla Sky, that doesn't mean that any court in the land is going literally try him for murder because the definition of murder doesn't apply to films. I don't know if he should be locked up because we haven't had a trial and I haven't seen the evidence. It's possible he could be guilty of malfeasance in public office, but again, that's not a war crime. Since I answered your question, could you tell me why your anger is directed at Blair as opposed to Paul Bremer or Donald Rumsfeld? | |||
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"This is the problem I have with Labour since the Blair years. Its over run with light tories with about as much interest in the electorate as the current govt. JC is trying to take the party back to its socialist roots, which in my opinion can only be a good thing. I also think that the light tories attempts to remove JC from leadership is out of order bearing in mind the fact a sizeable majority of Labour supporters voted him in. Since when was it right to try and remove a leader under those circumstances? We need a true alternative to the rightwing, I believe JC is Labours best hope. If the light tories don't like it, then why dont they leave and start up a new Tory light party. Rant over. "Interesting, isn't it? JC cannot gain the confidence of the parliamentary Labour party yet has the support of the majority of party members. I am pretty sure that he will win any contest. What happens then? Surely it can only be a split? | |||
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"This is the problem I have with Labour since the Blair years. Its over run with light tories with about as much interest in the electorate as the current govt. JC is trying to take the party back to its socialist roots, which in my opinion can only be a good thing. I also think that the light tories attempts to remove JC from leadership is out of order bearing in mind the fact a sizeable majority of Labour supporters voted him in. Since when was it right to try and remove a leader under those circumstances? We need a true alternative to the rightwing, I believe JC is Labours best hope. If the light tories don't like it, then why dont they leave and start up a new Tory light party. Rant over.
Interesting, isn't it?
JC cannot gain the confidence of the parliamentary Labour party yet has the support of the majority of party members.
I am pretty sure that he will win any contest.
What happens then? Surely it can only be a split?"and then who do people vote for? Corbyn might have the support of Labour party members but your typical 'working class' guy or traditional Labour voter dislikes both sides, especially the Corbyn side. The only way I can see it going is that UKIP gain support and Labour are wiped out as in Scotland | |||
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"This is the problem I have with Labour since the Blair years. Its over run with light tories with about as much interest in the electorate as the current govt. JC is trying to take the party back to its socialist roots, which in my opinion can only be a good thing. I also think that the light tories attempts to remove JC from leadership is out of order bearing in mind the fact a sizeable majority of Labour supporters voted him in. Since when was it right to try and remove a leader under those circumstances? We need a true alternative to the rightwing, I believe JC is Labours best hope. If the light tories don't like it, then why dont they leave and start up a new Tory light party. Rant over.
Interesting, isn't it?
JC cannot gain the confidence of the parliamentary Labour party yet has the support of the majority of party members.
I am pretty sure that he will win any contest.
What happens then? Surely it can only be a split?
and then who do people vote for? Corbyn might have the support of Labour party members but your typical 'working class' guy or traditional Labour voter dislikes both sides, especially the Corbyn side. The only way I can see it going is that UKIP gain support and Labour are wiped out as in Scotland"Even Garage said that UKIP was like a turkey voting for Christmas. There is no point in it any more. | |||
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"This is the problem I have with Labour since the Blair years. Its over run with light tories with about as much interest in the electorate as the current govt. JC is trying to take the party back to its socialist roots, which in my opinion can only be a good thing. I also think that the light tories attempts to remove JC from leadership is out of order bearing in mind the fact a sizeable majority of Labour supporters voted him in. Since when was it right to try and remove a leader under those circumstances? We need a true alternative to the rightwing, I believe JC is Labours best hope. If the light tories don't like it, then why dont they leave and start up a new Tory light party. Rant over.
Interesting, isn't it?
JC cannot gain the confidence of the parliamentary Labour party yet has the support of the majority of party members.
I am pretty sure that he will win any contest.
What happens then? Surely it can only be a split?"There's a good probability that under LP rules Corbyn won't be able to stand. Really hoped it wouldn't come to this, and there's plenty of trouble ahead, but Labour must act to get rid of him. | |||
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"This is the problem I have with Labour since the Blair years. Its over run with light tories with about as much interest in the electorate as the current govt. JC is trying to take the party back to its socialist roots, which in my opinion can only be a good thing. I also think that the light tories attempts to remove JC from leadership is out of order bearing in mind the fact a sizeable majority of Labour supporters voted him in. Since when was it right to try and remove a leader under those circumstances? We need a true alternative to the rightwing, I believe JC is Labours best hope. If the light tories don't like it, then why dont they leave and start up a new Tory light party. Rant over.
Interesting, isn't it?
JC cannot gain the confidence of the parliamentary Labour party yet has the support of the majority of party members.
I am pretty sure that he will win any contest.
What happens then? Surely it can only be a split?
There's a good probability that under LP rules Corbyn won't be able to stand.
Really hoped it wouldn't come to this, and there's plenty of trouble ahead, but Labour must act to get rid of him."Those rules are ambiguous as they talk about "challengers." They certainly need clarifying. | |||
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"This is the problem I have with Labour since the Blair years. Its over run with light tories with about as much interest in the electorate as the current govt. JC is trying to take the party back to its socialist roots, which in my opinion can only be a good thing. I also think that the light tories attempts to remove JC from leadership is out of order bearing in mind the fact a sizeable majority of Labour supporters voted him in. Since when was it right to try and remove a leader under those circumstances? We need a true alternative to the rightwing, I believe JC is Labours best hope. If the light tories don't like it, then why dont they leave and start up a new Tory light party. Rant over.
Interesting, isn't it?
JC cannot gain the confidence of the parliamentary Labour party yet has the support of the majority of party members.
I am pretty sure that he will win any contest.
What happens then? Surely it can only be a split?
There's a good probability that under LP rules Corbyn won't be able to stand.
Really hoped it wouldn't come to this, and there's plenty of trouble ahead, but Labour must act to get rid of him.
Those rules are ambiguous as they talk about "challengers." They certainly need clarifying."Indeed, It will be fascinating to see what happens. | |||
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"All is well in Labour land. Angel Eagle will ride over the hill on Monday and save the party.... "yep, red that on BBC news, god help Labour if she gets in we think Labour are struggling just now, this will make Westminster Labour same as Scotland Labour - Dead in the water; finished for good | |||
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"Blair was an astute politician who realised that Labour needed to occupy the central ground to become electable. What it did was to leave space for the likes of UKIP who appealed more to the traditional labour support. How Labour can reconnect with its core base while at the same time securing enough votes from middle England to form a government is a huge challenge. I don't see anyone who has that Blair like quality to lead the party and to attract mass appeal." I didn't think we were meant to talk sense on the forums
You are exactly right in my opinion. The political spectrum is like a horse shoe with the far right and the far left being closer to each other than they are to the centre. | |||
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" The labour party mps tell us JC is unelectable what makes them think anyone is interested in electing tony Blairs puppets . Angela smeagle
Sorry I just wanted to check, how many general elections did Blair win, and how many did Corbyn win? Can you remind me?
I believe it was 3 - 0 nil??? Correct me if I'm wrong but 3 in a row sounds like a Labour party record too? "Yep. He won three. The same as Margaret Thatcher. The difference was that Thatcher's successor went on to win another, Blair's didn't. | |||
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"All is well in Labour land. Angel Eagle will ride over the hill on Monday and save the party.... "I will put a tooth under my pillow tonight and the fairy will leave me a sixpence. | |||
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" The labour party mps tell us JC is unelectable what makes them think anyone is interested in electing tony Blairs puppets . Angela smeagle
Sorry I just wanted to check, how many general elections did Blair win, and how many did Corbyn win? Can you remind me?
I believe it was 3 - 0 nil??? Correct me if I'm wrong but 3 in a row sounds like a Labour party record too?
Yep. He won three. The same as Margaret Thatcher.
The difference was that Thatcher's successor went on to win another, Blair's didn't."And do you see that as Blair's fault? | |||
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" The labour party mps tell us JC is unelectable what makes them think anyone is interested in electing tony Blairs puppets . Angela smeagle
Sorry I just wanted to check, how many general elections did Blair win, and how many did Corbyn win? Can you remind me?
I believe it was 3 - 0 nil??? Correct me if I'm wrong but 3 in a row sounds like a Labour party record too?
Yep. He won three. The same as Margaret Thatcher.
The difference was that Thatcher's successor went on to win another, Blair's didn't."Blair's successor started disowning Blair and undoing all the progress of new labour... look where that go them | |||
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"This is the problem I have with Labour since the Blair years. Its over run with light tories with about as much interest in the electorate as the current govt. JC is trying to take the party back to its socialist roots, which in my opinion can only be a good thing. I also think that the light tories attempts to remove JC from leadership is out of order bearing in mind the fact a sizeable majority of Labour supporters voted him in. Since when was it right to try and remove a leader under those circumstances? We need a true alternative to the rightwing, I believe JC is Labours best hope. If the light tories don't like it, then why dont they leave and start up a new Tory light party. Rant over.
Interesting, isn't it?
JC cannot gain the confidence of the parliamentary Labour party yet has the support of the majority of party members.
I am pretty sure that he will win any contest.
What happens then? Surely it can only be a split?"Not sure he has the support of the members. The assumption is that 'new members' support him - in our case they don't! It is highly likely that he wouldn't win in an vote now. Yes a bunch of Momentum supporters will, but they do not own the Labour Party. And throwing bricks through Angela Eagles windows won't support the 'new, kinder politics' model. JC is a sham and is surrounded by more spin doctors than Blair even was. | |||
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"This is the problem I have with Labour since the Blair years. Its over run with light tories with about as much interest in the electorate as the current govt. JC is trying to take the party back to its socialist roots, which in my opinion can only be a good thing. I also think that the light tories attempts to remove JC from leadership is out of order bearing in mind the fact a sizeable majority of Labour supporters voted him in. Since when was it right to try and remove a leader under those circumstances? We need a true alternative to the rightwing, I believe JC is Labours best hope. If the light tories don't like it, then why dont they leave and start up a new Tory light party. Rant over.
Interesting, isn't it?
JC cannot gain the confidence of the parliamentary Labour party yet has the support of the majority of party members.
I am pretty sure that he will win any contest.
What happens then? Surely it can only be a split?
Not sure he has the support of the members. The assumption is that 'new members' support him - in our case they don't! It is highly likely that he wouldn't win in an vote now. Yes a bunch of Momentum supporters will, but they do not own the Labour Party. And throwing bricks through Angela Eagles windows won't support the 'new, kinder politics' model. JC is a sham and is surrounded by more spin doctors than Blair even was."I just joined, and know others who have just joined, to get rid of Corbyn. Corbyn seems determined to surround himself with Yes men, and spends all his time preaching to the choir. He isn't reaching out to the wider public, it's hard to get your message out when you refuse to talk to the media. | |||
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"This is the problem I have with Labour since the Blair years. Its over run with light tories with about as much interest in the electorate as the current govt. JC is trying to take the party back to its socialist roots, which in my opinion can only be a good thing. I also think that the light tories attempts to remove JC from leadership is out of order bearing in mind the fact a sizeable majority of Labour supporters voted him in. Since when was it right to try and remove a leader under those circumstances? We need a true alternative to the rightwing, I believe JC is Labours best hope. If the light tories don't like it, then why dont they leave and start up a new Tory light party. Rant over.
Interesting, isn't it?
JC cannot gain the confidence of the parliamentary Labour party yet has the support of the majority of party members.
I am pretty sure that he will win any contest.
What happens then? Surely it can only be a split?
Not sure he has the support of the members. The assumption is that 'new members' support him - in our case they don't! It is highly likely that he wouldn't win in an vote now. Yes a bunch of Momentum supporters will, but they do not own the Labour Party. And throwing bricks through Angela Eagles windows won't support the 'new, kinder politics' model. JC is a sham and is surrounded by more spin doctors than Blair even was.
I just joined, and know others who have just joined, to get rid of Corbyn.
Corbyn seems determined to surround himself with Yes men, and spends all his time preaching to the choir. He isn't reaching out to the wider public, it's hard to get your message out when you refuse to talk to the media. "To be fair to him, he tried to have a diverse group of people around him (mainly because he's one of those smug lefties who believe they can convert you) but nobody could stand to be around him for more than a year! | |||
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"This is the problem I have with Labour since the Blair years. Its over run with light tories with about as much interest in the electorate as the current govt. JC is trying to take the party back to its socialist roots, which in my opinion can only be a good thing. I also think that the light tories attempts to remove JC from leadership is out of order bearing in mind the fact a sizeable majority of Labour supporters voted him in. Since when was it right to try and remove a leader under those circumstances? We need a true alternative to the rightwing, I believe JC is Labours best hope. If the light tories don't like it, then why dont they leave and start up a new Tory light party. Rant over.
Interesting, isn't it?
JC cannot gain the confidence of the parliamentary Labour party yet has the support of the majority of party members.
I am pretty sure that he will win any contest.
What happens then? Surely it can only be a split?
Not sure he has the support of the members. The assumption is that 'new members' support him - in our case they don't! It is highly likely that he wouldn't win in an vote now. Yes a bunch of Momentum supporters will, but they do not own the Labour Party. And throwing bricks through Angela Eagles windows won't support the 'new, kinder politics' model. JC is a sham and is surrounded by more spin doctors than Blair even was.
I just joined, and know others who have just joined, to get rid of Corbyn.
Corbyn seems determined to surround himself with Yes men, and spends all his time preaching to the choir. He isn't reaching out to the wider public, it's hard to get your message out when you refuse to talk to the media.
To be fair to him, he tried to have a diverse group of people around him (mainly because he's one of those smug lefties who believe they can convert you) but nobody could stand to be around him for more than a year! "2 days for some!  | |||
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"Couldn't agree more. Eagles and the Blaired visionists should all go and join the Tories, i heard they are looking for some fresh twats...lol" which bit do you agree with? is it the we are leaderless bit? | |||
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"I was agreeing with Marky...JC is the best thing that's happened to Labour in decades.." hmm, we will need to agree to differ on that one! he is with John Mcdonnell ripping apart a great party that deserved much greater care by him. he is not the party, you and i are not the party. and the members are not the party. the people who vote for Labour are the party and we are losing them hand over fist - sadly  | |||
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 i also think you have a fantastic profile..lol..take care and have fun. x | |||
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"i respect your opinion, we all differ, it's healthy i also think you have a fantastic profile..lol..take care and have fun. x"you also  | |||
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"If Blair didn’t invade Iraq, he would probably still be PM now! I know that a lot of people say that they don’t like him, but can you please tell me 1 way that Blair made you life worse whilst he was PM?" Well he increased real government spending for all but 1 year of his leadership and I don't really need to explain why that isn't sustainable | |||
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"I was agreeing with Marky...JC is the best thing that's happened to Labour in decades.. hmm, we will need to agree to differ on that one! he is with John Mcdonnell ripping apart a great party that deserved much greater care by him. he is not the party, you and i are not the party. and the members are not the party. the people who vote for Labour are the party and we are losing them hand over fist - sadly "so true. I'm from Stoke, a strong Labour area with 3 Labour mp's and pretty much everyone you speak to will never vote Labour again or at least not in the near future, partly because for years the Labour party have let them down, partly because 70% of the people in Stoke voted to leave the EU and none of the Mp's supported them or shared that view but mainly because they are honest fair sensible people and can see Corbyn for what he is, a backward thinking useless waffler only interested in talking politics for the sake of it and never likely to get anything done. As somebody else said, he wants a party akin to a 6th form debating society and it's just not good enough. Basically the man is either not very well or a complete prick | |||
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"I cant really see any strong oppositions anymore after the brexit vote and I think we will be stuck with the same government for years to come, maibe even decades, cos the difference is now UK is split in half brexiter/remainer, it will be like scotland where just snp will win." OK but if you have a coalition government then the junior party can still do a good job for the country. Personally I think the Lib Dems did more in coalition than Ed Milliband's opposition did. Compared to Corbyn, Ed was a wirldwind success. Are coalition governments normal in Sweden? | |||
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"I cant really see any strong oppositions anymore after the brexit vote and I think we will be stuck with the same government for years to come, maibe even decades, cos the difference is now UK is split in half brexiter/remainer, it will be like scotland where just snp will win. OK but if you have a coalition government then the junior party can still do a good job for the country. Personally I think the Lib Dems did more in coalition than Ed Milliband's opposition did. Compared to Corbyn, Ed was a wirldwind success. Are coalition governments normal in Sweden? " That is a good point and that is what we should have, a coalition gov, so they get influenced by other politics, not just theirs. I don't think sweden have collision, as now sweden is currently run by a feminist movement called feminist initiative, it was formed in 2005 and it is not going good you know. | |||
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"This is the problem I have with Labour since the Blair years. Its over run with light tories with about as much interest in the electorate as the current govt. JC is trying to take the party back to its socialist roots, which in my opinion can only be a good thing. I also think that the light tories attempts to remove JC from leadership is out of order bearing in mind the fact a sizeable majority of Labour supporters voted him in. Since when was it right to try and remove a leader under those circumstances? We need a true alternative to the rightwing, I believe JC is Labours best hope. If the light tories don't like it, then why dont they leave and start up a new Tory light party. Rant over.
Interesting, isn't it?
JC cannot gain the confidence of the parliamentary Labour party yet has the support of the majority of party members.
I am pretty sure that he will win any contest.
What happens then? Surely it can only be a split?
and then who do people vote for? Corbyn might have the support of Labour party members but your typical 'working class' guy or traditional Labour voter dislikes both sides, especially the Corbyn side. The only way I can see it going is that UKIP gain support and Labour are wiped out as in Scotland"Liebour are already wiped out in scotland and will never make a return they are despised for standing with the tories and abandoning their socialist roots | |||
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"They all a bunch of idiots and unfit to govern. Sad thing is with all the infighting, the only winner will be UKIP. "I just said the same over dinner. | |||
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"I despair. At the point when they should be pulling together they do everything possible to pull themselves apart. All Labour needs now is for May to call a snap election to secure herself 5 full years (and two extra for the Conservatives) and Labour will split. Again. It makes the troubles of the 70s and 80s look quite amicable. "It is a complete and utter mess, an effective opposition they are not at present.. | |||
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"I despair. At the point when they should be pulling together they do everything possible to pull themselves apart. All Labour needs now is for May to call a snap election to secure herself 5 full years (and two extra for the Conservatives) and Labour will split. Again. It makes the troubles of the 70s and 80s look quite amicable.
It is a complete and utter mess, an effective opposition they are not at present..
"They are a party in opposition (with each other) and not a party of opposition. | |||
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"I despair. At the point when they should be pulling together they do everything possible to pull themselves apart. All Labour needs now is for May to call a snap election to secure herself 5 full years (and two extra for the Conservatives) and Labour will split. Again. It makes the troubles of the 70s and 80s look quite amicable. "On the plus side, it makes people like me actually consider voting labour, as long as the Blairites are well and truly beaten. If they win the party, I'm off to take up the black n' red. Fuck 'em. | |||
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"I despair. At the point when they should be pulling together they do everything possible to pull themselves apart. All Labour needs now is for May to call a snap election to secure herself 5 full years (and two extra for the Conservatives) and Labour will split. Again. It makes the troubles of the 70s and 80s look quite amicable.
On the plus side, it makes people like me actually consider voting labour, as long as the Blairites are well and truly beaten.
If they win the party, I'm off to take up the black n' red. Fuck 'em. "Every silver lining... | |||
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"I despair. At the point when they should be pulling together they do everything possible to pull themselves apart. All Labour needs now is for May to call a snap election to secure herself 5 full years (and two extra for the Conservatives) and Labour will split. Again. It makes the troubles of the 70s and 80s look quite amicable. "I actually have no idea where the party goes from here. The PLP's move has evidently failed - it's inconceivable that they rally around Corbyn now, and most of the new members are baying for "Blairite" blood. It's a sorry mess. | |||
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"I despair. At the point when they should be pulling together they do everything possible to pull themselves apart. All Labour needs now is for May to call a snap election to secure herself 5 full years (and two extra for the Conservatives) and Labour will split. Again. It makes the troubles of the 70s and 80s look quite amicable.
I actually have no idea where the party goes from here. The PLP's move has evidently failed - it's inconceivable that they rally around Corbyn now, and most of the new members are baying for "Blairite" blood.
It's a sorry mess."You never know, the Labour party might actually become a Labour party again with scum like Hilary Benn off the scene. | |||
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" I actually have no idea where the party goes from here. The PLP's move has evidently failed - it's inconceivable that they rally around Corbyn now, and most of the new members are baying for "Blairite" blood. It's a sorry mess. You never know, the Labour party might actually become a Labour party again with scum like Hilary Benn off the scene. " So a full split and the forming of a new party? The PLP aren't going to give up their seats and I doubt they'd all declare themselves independents. Some might go LibDem, I suppose. | |||
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" I actually have no idea where the party goes from here. The PLP's move has evidently failed - it's inconceivable that they rally around Corbyn now, and most of the new members are baying for "Blairite" blood. It's a sorry mess. You never know, the Labour party might actually become a Labour party again with scum like Hilary Benn off the scene. So a full split and the forming of a new party? The PLP aren't going to give up their seats and I doubt they'd all declare themselves independents. Some might go LibDem, I suppose. " The old man predicted that happening weeks ago. It can only be a good thing as far as I can see. People, especialy young people are looking for a way forward that isn't the Tories or "New Labour". JC seems ver' popular on social media. The time seems right for a rise of the true left, try to redress the balance in all thatr has been stolen from people by Blair, Brown and Cameron. Who are all, as far as I'm concerned Tories. I'd actually vote Tory before I voted new Labour. At least the Tories openly hate/are at war with those on lower incomes. New labour choose to lie to our faces and then stab us in the back. | |||
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" I actually have no idea where the party goes from here. The PLP's move has evidently failed - it's inconceivable that they rally around Corbyn now, and most of the new members are baying for "Blairite" blood. It's a sorry mess. You never know, the Labour party might actually become a Labour party again with scum like Hilary Benn off the scene. So a full split and the forming of a new party? The PLP aren't going to give up their seats and I doubt they'd all declare themselves independents. Some might go LibDem, I suppose. " Unless Corbyn gives way to a candiate acceptable to both him and the PLP, I think a split is likely. The PLP would probably accept anyone but Corbyn or McDonnel at this point and all Jezza has to do is endorse somebody. He won't though. | |||
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" I actually have no idea where the party goes from here. The PLP's move has evidently failed - it's inconceivable that they rally around Corbyn now, and most of the new members are baying for "Blairite" blood. It's a sorry mess. You never know, the Labour party might actually become a Labour party again with scum like Hilary Benn off the scene. So a full split and the forming of a new party? The PLP aren't going to give up their seats and I doubt they'd all declare themselves independents. Some might go LibDem, I suppose. The old man predicted that happening weeks ago. It can only be a good thing as far as I can see. People, especialy young people are looking for a way forward that isn't the Tories or "New Labour". JC seems ver' popular on social media. The time seems right for a rise of the true left, try to redress the balance in all thatr has been stolen from people by Blair, Brown and Cameron. Who are all, as far as I'm concerned Tories. I'd actually vote Tory before I voted new Labour. At least the Tories openly hate/are at war with those on lower incomes. New labour choose to lie to our faces and then stab us in the back. " I think the existence of an "Army of Young People" is mostly a myth. I've been to a Corbyn rally, and all I saw there were middle-class lefty liberals and revolutionaries. Very few young people amongst the audience of 800. I would put the average age in the 50's. | |||
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" I actually have no idea where the party goes from here. The PLP's move has evidently failed - it's inconceivable that they rally around Corbyn now, and most of the new members are baying for "Blairite" blood. It's a sorry mess. You never know, the Labour party might actually become a Labour party again with scum like Hilary Benn off the scene. So a full split and the forming of a new party? The PLP aren't going to give up their seats and I doubt they'd all declare themselves independents. Some might go LibDem, I suppose. The old man predicted that happening weeks ago. It can only be a good thing as far as I can see. People, especialy young people are looking for a way forward that isn't the Tories or "New Labour". JC seems ver' popular on social media. The time seems right for a rise of the true left, try to redress the balance in all thatr has been stolen from people by Blair, Brown and Cameron. Who are all, as far as I'm concerned Tories. I'd actually vote Tory before I voted new Labour. At least the Tories openly hate/are at war with those on lower incomes. New labour choose to lie to our faces and then stab us in the back. I think the existence of an "Army of Young People" is mostly a myth. I've been to a Corbyn rally, and all I saw there were middle-class lefty liberals and revolutionaries. Very few young people amongst the audience of 800. I would put the average age in the 50's." It's quite young in London. I'd put the average at 27 at the ones I have seen. | |||
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" I actually have no idea where the party goes from here. The PLP's move has evidently failed - it's inconceivable that they rally around Corbyn now, and most of the new members are baying for "Blairite" blood. It's a sorry mess. You never know, the Labour party might actually become a Labour party again with scum like Hilary Benn off the scene. So a full split and the forming of a new party? The PLP aren't going to give up their seats and I doubt they'd all declare themselves independents. Some might go LibDem, I suppose. The old man predicted that happening weeks ago. It can only be a good thing as far as I can see. People, especialy young people are looking for a way forward that isn't the Tories or "New Labour". JC seems ver' popular on social media. The time seems right for a rise of the true left, try to redress the balance in all thatr has been stolen from people by Blair, Brown and Cameron. Who are all, as far as I'm concerned Tories. I'd actually vote Tory before I voted new Labour. At least the Tories openly hate/are at war with those on lower incomes. New labour choose to lie to our faces and then stab us in the back. I think the existence of an "Army of Young People" is mostly a myth. I've been to a Corbyn rally, and all I saw there were middle-class lefty liberals and revolutionaries. Very few young people amongst the audience of 800. I would put the average age in the 50's." I haven't been to any. I live in the sticks. I'm basing it on people I know, who I have spoken to and my friends on facebook. I shouldn't imagine many are the "rally" type, but they do seem to like JC. I mean, I can't remember the last time I've spoken to a gamekeeper who has joined the bloody Labour party..... | |||
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" I actually have no idea where the party goes from here. The PLP's move has evidently failed - it's inconceivable that they rally around Corbyn now, and most of the new members are baying for "Blairite" blood. It's a sorry mess. You never know, the Labour party might actually become a Labour party again with scum like Hilary Benn off the scene. So a full split and the forming of a new party? The PLP aren't going to give up their seats and I doubt they'd all declare themselves independents. Some might go LibDem, I suppose. The old man predicted that happening weeks ago. It can only be a good thing as far as I can see. People, especialy young people are looking for a way forward that isn't the Tories or "New Labour". JC seems ver' popular on social media. The time seems right for a rise of the true left, try to redress the balance in all thatr has been stolen from people by Blair, Brown and Cameron. Who are all, as far as I'm concerned Tories. I'd actually vote Tory before I voted new Labour. At least the Tories openly hate/are at war with those on lower incomes. New labour choose to lie to our faces and then stab us in the back. I think the existence of an "Army of Young People" is mostly a myth. I've been to a Corbyn rally, and all I saw there were middle-class lefty liberals and revolutionaries. Very few young people amongst the audience of 800. I would put the average age in the 50's. It's quite young in London. I'd put the average at 27 at the ones I have seen. " Ah well, this was back during the leadership election - I have no doubt that lots of younger people have joined, but not as many as is claimed. I work in the NHS and my colleagues are mostly natural Labour supporters, if not actively political. Corbyn is not at all popular here, nor was he on the doorsteps at the locals or the referendum. Once details of his policies - and particularly the economic costs - really emerge, then I suspect support will drain away. At the moment he is simply the "anti establishment" candidate for the left - as Farage was for the right. Neither are ultimately electable in my judgement. | |||
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"The piece on newsnight was interesting with the reappearance of some of the old faces from the 80's, the party is not a viable opposition and Corbyn could not lead labour into power before the plp fell out with him so publicly.. The far left will never hold enough support across the country to secure a majority and a coalition would be equally unlikely.. Some of those who have now surfaced are displaying behaviours not welcome in a democratic country and as this election and however it does develops those who now feel they can take it back will only get nastier and that will only serve to alienate the middle of the road voters who labour need to attract.. An unchecked Tory party with no opposition and maybe a bigger majority if May calls an early election can only be bad for many within society.." JC is hardly the far left though is he. If you believe this, then you are pretty much Murdochs puppet. | |||
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"The piece on newsnight was interesting with the reappearance of some of the old faces from the 80's, the party is not a viable opposition and Corbyn could not lead labour into power before the plp fell out with him so publicly.. The far left will never hold enough support across the country to secure a majority and a coalition would be equally unlikely.. Some of those who have now surfaced are displaying behaviours not welcome in a democratic country and as this election and however it does develops those who now feel they can take it back will only get nastier and that will only serve to alienate the middle of the road voters who labour need to attract.. An unchecked Tory party with no opposition and maybe a bigger majority if May calls an early election can only be bad for many within society.. JC is hardly the far left though is he. If you believe this, then you are pretty much Murdochs puppet. " It's not about JC himself being far left, it's about the perception that anything not middle ground is far left AND that the far left can co-opt him. That combination will alienate a lot of people. | |||
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"The piece on newsnight was interesting with the reappearance of some of the old faces from the 80's, the party is not a viable opposition and Corbyn could not lead labour into power before the plp fell out with him so publicly.. The far left will never hold enough support across the country to secure a majority and a coalition would be equally unlikely.. Some of those who have now surfaced are displaying behaviours not welcome in a democratic country and as this election and however it does develops those who now feel they can take it back will only get nastier and that will only serve to alienate the middle of the road voters who labour need to attract.. An unchecked Tory party with no opposition and maybe a bigger majority if May calls an early election can only be bad for many within society.. JC is hardly the far left though is he. If you believe this, then you are pretty much Murdochs puppet. " As an ex union official who fully supported our then disafiliation from new labour I'm pretty aware that he isn't but and without resorting to petty name calling anyone with an ounce of common sense can see that the far left have seen him as a possible way back.. And that's what is happening now, calling themselves 'momentum' and trying to associate all of the now plp as Blairite vermin is only about some of those old trots from the days of militant trying to wreak havoc.. | |||
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" I actually have no idea where the party goes from here. The PLP's move has evidently failed - it's inconceivable that they rally around Corbyn now, and most of the new members are baying for "Blairite" blood. It's a sorry mess. You never know, the Labour party might actually become a Labour party again with scum like Hilary Benn off the scene. So a full split and the forming of a new party? The PLP aren't going to give up their seats and I doubt they'd all declare themselves independents. Some might go LibDem, I suppose. The old man predicted that happening weeks ago. It can only be a good thing as far as I can see. People, especialy young people are looking for a way forward that isn't the Tories or "New Labour". JC seems ver' popular on social media. The time seems right for a rise of the true left, try to redress the balance in all thatr has been stolen from people by Blair, Brown and Cameron. Who are all, as far as I'm concerned Tories. I'd actually vote Tory before I voted new Labour. At least the Tories openly hate/are at war with those on lower incomes. New labour choose to lie to our faces and then stab us in the back. " the voice of reason | |||
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"I despair. At the point when they should be pulling together they do everything possible to pull themselves apart. All Labour needs now is for May to call a snap election to secure herself 5 full years (and two extra for the Conservatives) and Labour will split. Again. It makes the troubles of the 70s and 80s look quite amicable.
I actually have no idea where the party goes from here. The PLP's move has evidently failed - it's inconceivable that they rally around Corbyn now, and most of the new members are baying for "Blairite" blood.
It's a sorry mess."agree to the mess bit, but don't agree with the new members bit. even if it coats me another £25 as i joined after Feb, i will vote against Jezza. | |||
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" I actually have no idea where the party goes from here. The PLP's move has evidently failed - it's inconceivable that they rally around Corbyn now, and most of the new members are baying for "Blairite" blood. It's a sorry mess. You never know, the Labour party might actually become a Labour party again with scum like Hilary Benn off the scene. So a full split and the forming of a new party? The PLP aren't going to give up their seats and I doubt they'd all declare themselves independents. Some might go LibDem, I suppose. The old man predicted that happening weeks ago. It can only be a good thing as far as I can see. People, especialy young people are looking for a way forward that isn't the Tories or "New Labour". JC seems ver' popular on social media. The time seems right for a rise of the true left, try to redress the balance in all thatr has been stolen from people by Blair, Brown and Cameron. Who are all, as far as I'm concerned Tories. I'd actually vote Tory before I voted new Labour. At least the Tories openly hate/are at war with those on lower incomes. New labour choose to lie to our faces and then stab us in the back. the voice of reason "I say as I see - I've no particular allegiance to the Labour Party, I'm one of the many disenfranchised. If I was easily seduced by fascist rhetoric, I suppose I'd have gone to UKIP, but I'm not. All I know is that if the Labour party wish to persist in being a light version of the Tories, they won't see my vote. I'm surrounded by Tories and the wealthy. I know where I stand with them. I'm beneath them (in their eyes). I know that in reality, New labour and their supporters think the same way, but they lie and wring their hands. | |||
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" I actually have no idea where the party goes from here. The PLP's move has evidently failed - it's inconceivable that they rally around Corbyn now, and most of the new members are baying for "Blairite" blood. It's a sorry mess. You never know, the Labour party might actually become a Labour party again with scum like Hilary Benn off the scene. So a full split and the forming of a new party? The PLP aren't going to give up their seats and I doubt they'd all declare themselves independents. Some might go LibDem, I suppose. The old man predicted that happening weeks ago. It can only be a good thing as far as I can see. People, especialy young people are looking for a way forward that isn't the Tories or "New Labour". JC seems ver' popular on social media. The time seems right for a rise of the true left, try to redress the balance in all thatr has been stolen from people by Blair, Brown and Cameron. Who are all, as far as I'm concerned Tories. I'd actually vote Tory before I voted new Labour. At least the Tories openly hate/are at war with those on lower incomes. New labour choose to lie to our faces and then stab us in the back. the voice of reason
I say as I see - I've no particular allegiance to the Labour Party, I'm one of the many disenfranchised. If I was easily seduced by fascist rhetoric, I suppose I'd have gone to UKIP, but I'm not. All I know is that if the Labour party wish to persist in being a light version of the Tories, they won't see my vote. I'm surrounded by Tories and the wealthy. I know where I stand with them. I'm beneath them (in their eyes). I know that in reality, New labour and their supporters think the same way, but they lie and wring their hands. "having a chip on your shoulder doesn't give you the right to pigeon hole everybody. you have no idea whether people think you are beneath them or not. it is highly likely that they don't think like that... | |||
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" I actually have no idea where the party goes from here. The PLP's move has evidently failed - it's inconceivable that they rally around Corbyn now, and most of the new members are baying for "Blairite" blood. It's a sorry mess. You never know, the Labour party might actually become a Labour party again with scum like Hilary Benn off the scene. So a full split and the forming of a new party? The PLP aren't going to give up their seats and I doubt they'd all declare themselves independents. Some might go LibDem, I suppose. The old man predicted that happening weeks ago. It can only be a good thing as far as I can see. People, especialy young people are looking for a way forward that isn't the Tories or "New Labour". JC seems ver' popular on social media. The time seems right for a rise of the true left, try to redress the balance in all thatr has been stolen from people by Blair, Brown and Cameron. Who are all, as far as I'm concerned Tories. I'd actually vote Tory before I voted new Labour. At least the Tories openly hate/are at war with those on lower incomes. New labour choose to lie to our faces and then stab us in the back. the voice of reason
I say as I see - I've no particular allegiance to the Labour Party, I'm one of the many disenfranchised. If I was easily seduced by fascist rhetoric, I suppose I'd have gone to UKIP, but I'm not. All I know is that if the Labour party wish to persist in being a light version of the Tories, they won't see my vote. I'm surrounded by Tories and the wealthy. I know where I stand with them. I'm beneath them (in their eyes). I know that in reality, New labour and their supporters think the same way, but they lie and wring their hands.
having a chip on your shoulder doesn't give you the right to pigeon hole everybody. you have no idea whether people think you are beneath them or not. it is highly likely that they don't think like that..."I don't have a chip, I just am capable of reading/watching the news and I know that New Labour say one thing and do another. If you support them, then you might as well join the Tory party, because they are the same, ideologically speaking. | |||
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"After the NEC decision I can see Corbyn getting re-elected by the party members despite the £25 fee to vote and the 6 month 'freeze'. Labour MPs will then just disown the party. They can go Independent or even join UKIP but I doubt any will resign and go for a bi-election. We are seeing the destruction of a once great and honourable party by the loonie left who simply do not have a clue how to win elections. They never have. And in any case the British people will never move that far left. So in 2020? God only knows..." if i don't get a chance to vote then i might have to seek a judicial review and ask that in retrospect the same rule apply to the last leadership election! That way JC would not have got in in the first place! | |||
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" I actually have no idea where the party goes from here. The PLP's move has evidently failed - it's inconceivable that they rally around Corbyn now, and most of the new members are baying for "Blairite" blood. It's a sorry mess. You never know, the Labour party might actually become a Labour party again with scum like Hilary Benn off the scene. So a full split and the forming of a new party? The PLP aren't going to give up their seats and I doubt they'd all declare themselves independents. Some might go LibDem, I suppose. The old man predicted that happening weeks ago. It can only be a good thing as far as I can see. People, especialy young people are looking for a way forward that isn't the Tories or "New Labour". JC seems ver' popular on social media. The time seems right for a rise of the true left, try to redress the balance in all thatr has been stolen from people by Blair, Brown and Cameron. Who are all, as far as I'm concerned Tories. I'd actually vote Tory before I voted new Labour. At least the Tories openly hate/are at war with those on lower incomes. New labour choose to lie to our faces and then stab us in the back. the voice of reason
I say as I see - I've no particular allegiance to the Labour Party, I'm one of the many disenfranchised. If I was easily seduced by fascist rhetoric, I suppose I'd have gone to UKIP, but I'm not. All I know is that if the Labour party wish to persist in being a light version of the Tories, they won't see my vote. I'm surrounded by Tories and the wealthy. I know where I stand with them. I'm beneath them (in their eyes). I know that in reality, New labour and their supporters think the same way, but they lie and wring their hands.
having a chip on your shoulder doesn't give you the right to pigeon hole everybody. you have no idea whether people think you are beneath them or not. it is highly likely that they don't think like that...
I don't have a chip, I just am capable of reading/watching the news and I know that New Labour say one thing and do another. If you support them, then you might as well join the Tory party, because they are the same, ideologically speaking. "i think i might read a wider press than you do. you don't know what you assert, you feel it. you have no facts only emotions. i will not invalidate these, but neither do i accept them as legitimate. i have voted Labour, Liberal and Conservative in my time - totally dependent on who has the best policies at the time for the country - Political parties need to remember the electorate is fical - as you and i are. i am clearly more centrist than you and recognuse different benefits. | |||
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" I actually have no idea where the party goes from here. The PLP's move has evidently failed - it's inconceivable that they rally around Corbyn now, and most of the new members are baying for "Blairite" blood. It's a sorry mess. You never know, the Labour party might actually become a Labour party again with scum like Hilary Benn off the scene. So a full split and the forming of a new party? The PLP aren't going to give up their seats and I doubt they'd all declare themselves independents. Some might go LibDem, I suppose. The old man predicted that happening weeks ago. It can only be a good thing as far as I can see. People, especialy young people are looking for a way forward that isn't the Tories or "New Labour". JC seems ver' popular on social media. The time seems right for a rise of the true left, try to redress the balance in all thatr has been stolen from people by Blair, Brown and Cameron. Who are all, as far as I'm concerned Tories. I'd actually vote Tory before I voted new Labour. At least the Tories openly hate/are at war with those on lower incomes. New labour choose to lie to our faces and then stab us in the back. the voice of reason
I say as I see - I've no particular allegiance to the Labour Party, I'm one of the many disenfranchised. If I was easily seduced by fascist rhetoric, I suppose I'd have gone to UKIP, but I'm not. All I know is that if the Labour party wish to persist in being a light version of the Tories, they won't see my vote. I'm surrounded by Tories and the wealthy. I know where I stand with them. I'm beneath them (in their eyes). I know that in reality, New labour and their supporters think the same way, but they lie and wring their hands.
having a chip on your shoulder doesn't give you the right to pigeon hole everybody. you have no idea whether people think you are beneath them or not. it is highly likely that they don't think like that...
I don't have a chip, I just am capable of reading/watching the news and I know that New Labour say one thing and do another. If you support them, then you might as well join the Tory party, because they are the same, ideologically speaking.
i think i might read a wider press than you do. you don't know what you assert, you feel it. you have no facts only emotions. i will not invalidate these, but neither do i accept them as legitimate.
i have voted Labour, Liberal and Conservative in my time - totally dependent on who has the best policies at the time for the country - Political parties need to remember the electorate is fical - as you and i are. i am clearly more centrist than you and recognuse different benefits. "How can/do you read a wider press than me? I'm not stupid, you know. You also seem pretty devoid of any facts, but that's not surprising considering that this wasn't (or din't end up being) a debate about a particular point, rather my (and coincidenatlly, a lot of peoples) feelings about the labour party. I couldn't give a monkey's toss whether you deem to validate my emotions or not. It does not surprise me that you have voted liberal or conservative, as you are clearly right wing. only wonder why you choose to hide it by voting lbour, why not just vote Tory? | |||
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" You never know, the Labour party might actually become a Labour party again with scum like Hilary Benn off the scene. " Sorry to butt in on private grief but the above remark encapsulates everything that is wrong with the Labour party and pretty much left wing politics in general. Anyone with a different opinion is scum? | |||
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" You never know, the Labour party might actually become a Labour party again with scum like Hilary Benn off the scene. Sorry to butt in on private grief but the above remark encapsulates everything that is wrong with the Labour party and pretty much left wing politics in general. Anyone with a different opinion is scum?" Its a symptom of the Social Media phenomenon. People have now learned they can hide behind virtual walls and behave in a totally unacceptable way without penalty. And to use that term about one of the most impressive Parliamentarians of the day (Benn) just shows the writer's ignorance. And I speak as a lifelong Tory. | |||
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" You never know, the Labour party might actually become a Labour party again with scum like Hilary Benn off the scene. Sorry to butt in on private grief but the above remark encapsulates everything that is wrong with the Labour party and pretty much left wing politics in general. Anyone with a different opinion is scum? Its a symptom of the Social Media phenomenon. People have now learned they can hide behind virtual walls and behave in a totally unacceptable way without penalty. And to use that term about one of the most impressive Parliamentarians of the day (Benn) just shows the writer's ignorance. And I speak as a lifelong Tory." I'm sure that as a lifelong Tory, Hilary Benn is indeed impressive. People tend to use emotive language about the people who make decisions that affect their lives. To assert that it only happens on the left is laughable. | |||
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" You never know, the Labour party might actually become a Labour party again with scum like Hilary Benn off the scene. Sorry to butt in on private grief but the above remark encapsulates everything that is wrong with the Labour party and pretty much left wing politics in general. Anyone with a different opinion is scum? Its a symptom of the Social Media phenomenon. People have now learned they can hide behind virtual walls and behave in a totally unacceptable way without penalty. And to use that term about one of the most impressive Parliamentarians of the day (Benn) just shows the writer's ignorance. And I speak as a lifelong Tory. I'm sure that as a lifelong Tory, Hilary Benn is indeed impressive. People tend to use emotive language about the people who make decisions that affect their lives. To assert that it only happens on the left is laughable." No but the left are better at it. It seems that they employ people to sit around inventing insults that end in 'ist'. | |||
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" You never know, the Labour party might actually become a Labour party again with scum like Hilary Benn off the scene. Sorry to butt in on private grief but the above remark encapsulates everything that is wrong with the Labour party and pretty much left wing politics in general. Anyone with a different opinion is scum? Its a symptom of the Social Media phenomenon. People have now learned they can hide behind virtual walls and behave in a totally unacceptable way without penalty. And to use that term about one of the most impressive Parliamentarians of the day (Benn) just shows the writer's ignorance. And I speak as a lifelong Tory. I'm sure that as a lifelong Tory, Hilary Benn is indeed impressive. People tend to use emotive language about the people who make decisions that affect their lives. To assert that it only happens on the left is laughable." Where did I 'assert that it only happens on the left'? Nice try but wrong. I was trying to show that it is quite possible to admire a political opponent. Which, seeing as you raised the point, is something the Left clearly find impossible and reduce everything to personal abuse and soundbites. Or indeed window smashing  | |||
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" You never know, the Labour party might actually become a Labour party again with scum like Hilary Benn off the scene. Sorry to butt in on private grief but the above remark encapsulates everything that is wrong with the Labour party and pretty much left wing politics in general. Anyone with a different opinion is scum? Its a symptom of the Social Media phenomenon. People have now learned they can hide behind virtual walls and behave in a totally unacceptable way without penalty. And to use that term about one of the most impressive Parliamentarians of the day (Benn) just shows the writer's ignorance. And I speak as a lifelong Tory. I'm sure that as a lifelong Tory, Hilary Benn is indeed impressive. People tend to use emotive language about the people who make decisions that affect their lives. To assert that it only happens on the left is laughable. Where did I 'assert that it only happens on the left'? Nice try but wrong. I was trying to show that it is quite possible to admire a political opponent. Which, seeing as you raised the point, is something the Left clearly find impossible and reduce everything to personal abuse and soundbites. Or indeed window smashing "You didn't, the post above you did. The right have been known to throw personal abuse and soundbites around too, but I think that you know that. I think, if you check, the right are no strangers to breaking the odd thing here and there... | |||
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" You never know, the Labour party might actually become a Labour party again with scum like Hilary Benn off the scene. Sorry to butt in on private grief but the above remark encapsulates everything that is wrong with the Labour party and pretty much left wing politics in general. Anyone with a different opinion is scum? Its a symptom of the Social Media phenomenon. People have now learned they can hide behind virtual walls and behave in a totally unacceptable way without penalty. And to use that term about one of the most impressive Parliamentarians of the day (Benn) just shows the writer's ignorance. And I speak as a lifelong Tory. I'm sure that as a lifelong Tory, Hilary Benn is indeed impressive. People tend to use emotive language about the people who make decisions that affect their lives. To assert that it only happens on the left is laughable." No matter the emotion it's the language of the type of narrative that leads some to think it acceptable to throw a brick through an MP's office window and to send death threats and to label people as vermin.. And yes it happens with the extreme minded moantg sides, sadly Jo Cox may well have paid the ultimate price for such emotions.. There's passion and wanting to do what's right for those you elect to serve and that's all good but it went too far in the EU vote and it's going to far with some of the antics of 'momentum'.. | |||
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"Any time politics decends into violence, politics has failed. You should be able to attract people to your way of thinking through logical arguments, if you have to smash windows, you're doing it wrong. We all like to slate politicians, but I think when we start talking about them as less than human we have probably taken it a bit too far, although I'm certain that i have done this in the past. " I generally agree with you a lot but disagree with both points here. 1) politics is formed from violence so the two are inherently linked. The only reason we have a house of commoners is because of a war against the nobility! 2) as the nuremburg trials show, the worst acts of cruelty are often carried out by very normal people, not mad men or those with blood lust. So yes politicians are human, but humans are capable of great evil. Jeremy Corbyn strikes me as the type of person who would gladly throw me into a concentration camp. I watched an interview with him where he was asked how he would deal with people that didn't agree with his agenda, and if I may paraphrase: JC: "I'm going to make the case I believe in and invite them for a debate" Interviewer: "but is there anything they could say to you that would make you change your view, you don't seem to have changed much" JC: "no I don't think there is, I've heard the counter arguments before" Interviewer: "then it's not really a debate then is it" Corbyn is the scariest type of would-be tyrant because he comes at you with smiles. It's only when you tell him that no amount of smiles and hugs will make you believe his bullshit that he'd show his true colours. | |||
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"Any time politics decends into violence, politics has failed. You should be able to attract people to your way of thinking through logical arguments, if you have to smash windows, you're doing it wrong. We all like to slate politicians, but I think when we start talking about them as less than human we have probably taken it a bit too far, although I'm certain that i have done this in the past. I generally agree with you a lot but disagree with both points here. 1) politics is formed from violence so the two are inherently linked. The only reason we have a house of commoners is because of a war against the nobility! 2) as the nuremburg trials show, the worst acts of cruelty are often carried out by very normal people, not mad men or those with blood lust. So yes politicians are human, but humans are capable of great evil. Jeremy Corbyn strikes me as the type of person who would gladly throw me into a concentration camp. I watched an interview with him where he was asked how he would deal with people that didn't agree with his agenda, and if I may paraphrase: JC: "I'm going to make the case I believe in and invite them for a debate" Interviewer: "but is there anything they could say to you that would make you change your view, you don't seem to have changed much" JC: "no I don't think there is, I've heard the counter arguments before" Interviewer: "then it's not really a debate then is it" Corbyn is the scariest type of would-be tyrant because he comes at you with smiles. It's only when you tell him that no amount of smiles and hugs will make you believe his bullshit that he'd show his true colours. " I'm talking about politics in the UK in modern times, not a Clauswitzian war is a continuation of politics by other means. Calling people scum, vermin, cockroaches etc. is to label them as "other" and as sub-human. This is the kind of dangerous language that has been used to incite hatred from Germany to Rwanda. I just dont think that it has a place in modern, civilised, political discourse. | |||
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"Any time politics decends into violence, politics has failed. You should be able to attract people to your way of thinking through logical arguments, if you have to smash windows, you're doing it wrong. We all like to slate politicians, but I think when we start talking about them as less than human we have probably taken it a bit too far, although I'm certain that i have done this in the past. I generally agree with you a lot but disagree with both points here. 1) politics is formed from violence so the two are inherently linked. The only reason we have a house of commoners is because of a war against the nobility! 2) as the nuremburg trials show, the worst acts of cruelty are often carried out by very normal people, not mad men or those with blood lust. So yes politicians are human, but humans are capable of great evil. Jeremy Corbyn strikes me as the type of person who would gladly throw me into a concentration camp. I watched an interview with him where he was asked how he would deal with people that didn't agree with his agenda, and if I may paraphrase: JC: "I'm going to make the case I believe in and invite them for a debate" Interviewer: "but is there anything they could say to you that would make you change your view, you don't seem to have changed much" JC: "no I don't think there is, I've heard the counter arguments before" Interviewer: "then it's not really a debate then is it" Corbyn is the scariest type of would-be tyrant because he comes at you with smiles. It's only when you tell him that no amount of smiles and hugs will make you believe his bullshit that he'd show his true colours. I'm talking about politics in the UK in modern times, not a Clauswitzian war is a continuation of politics by other means. Calling people scum, vermin, cockroaches etc. is to label them as "other" and as sub-human. This is the kind of dangerous language that has been used to incite hatred from Germany to Rwanda. I just dont think that it has a place in modern, civilised, political discourse." I don't like it but I think it's a shining example of how degenerate modern political discourse is. | |||
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"The downfall of labour started as tony blair was bullied into making gordon brown the chancellor back in 97', he knew it wouldn't work. If tony would be there now, they would be a force to recon with, he is the longest winning pm, winning election after election." He is also lying manipulating twat, who has never apologised directly to families whose sons he set off to die, whilst his ugly bitch off a wife prosecutes and profits from his decisions I don't know how he dares show himself in public. As for the twat Mandelson, he should be shot and have his head out on stick in London | |||
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"The downfall of labour started as tony blair was bullied into making gordon brown the chancellor back in 97', he knew it wouldn't work. If tony would be there now, they would be a force to recon with, he is the longest winning pm, winning election after election. He is also lying manipulating twat, who has never apologised directly to families whose sons he set off to die, whilst his ugly bitch off a wife prosecutes and profits from his decisions I don't know how he dares show himself in public. As for the twat Mandelson, he should be shot and have his head out on stick in London " And the one great thing that Mr Crobyn stands for is to oppose that sort of sentiment, bless him. Aggression and violence is a bad reaction to any situation.i | |||
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"The downfall of labour started as tony blair was bullied into making gordon brown the chancellor back in 97', he knew it wouldn't work. If tony would be there now, they would be a force to recon with, he is the longest winning pm, winning election after election. He is also lying manipulating twat, who has never apologised directly to families whose sons he set off to die, whilst his ugly bitch off a wife prosecutes and profits from his decisions I don't know how he dares show himself in public. As for the twat Mandelson, he should be shot and have his head out on stick in London And the one great thing that Mr Crobyn stands for is to oppose that sort of sentiment, bless him. Aggression and violence is a bad reaction to any situation.i" Aggression and violence are the reason we have a democracy in the first place. Freedom isn't free. | |||
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"The downfall of labour started as tony blair was bullied into making gordon brown the chancellor back in 97', he knew it wouldn't work. If tony would be there now, they would be a force to recon with, he is the longest winning pm, winning election after election. He is also lying manipulating twat, who has never apologised directly to families whose sons he set off to die, whilst his ugly bitch off a wife prosecutes and profits from his decisions I don't know how he dares show himself in public. As for the twat Mandelson, he should be shot and have his head out on stick in London And the one great thing that Mr Crobyn stands for is to oppose that sort of sentiment, bless him. Aggression and violence is a bad reaction to any situation.i Aggression and violence are the reason we have a democracy in the first place. Freedom isn't free. " all depends on who's rules you follow | |||
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"The downfall of labour started as tony blair was bullied into making gordon brown the chancellor back in 97', he knew it wouldn't work. If tony would be there now, they would be a force to recon with, he is the longest winning pm, winning election after election. He is also lying manipulating twat, who has never apologised directly to families whose sons he set off to die, whilst his ugly bitch off a wife prosecutes and profits from his decisions I don't know how he dares show himself in public. As for the twat Mandelson, he should be shot and have his head out on stick in London And the one great thing that Mr Crobyn stands for is to oppose that sort of sentiment, bless him. Aggression and violence is a bad reaction to any situation.i Aggression and violence are the reason we have a democracy in the first place. Freedom isn't free. all depends on who's rules you follow "Do you remember life before the civil war, twas grim I tell thee | |||
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"The downfall of labour started as tony blair was bullied into making gordon brown the chancellor back in 97', he knew it wouldn't work. If tony would be there now, they would be a force to recon with, he is the longest winning pm, winning election after election. He's also a war criminal who should be in prison.He is not a war criminal idiot he lied and took us to war on spiced up documents of WMD which resulted in the deaths of thousands of troops and I believe the civilian cost of lifes was over a million. Which I believe has also led to the mess in that region and increase in terrorism. So sorry but that makes him a criminal to me so please dont call me an idiot when the facts speak for themselves. Thanks. But that's not what a war crime is... it was a crime. End of. not gonna argue over it. for me and many others he should be locked up. make excuses for the guy all you want him and bush are criminals. Good night , Call it a crime then not a war crime. Sorry if the English language inconveniences you. Taking the country to "war" based on lies is a "crime". Where as if he didn't do what he did hundreds of thousands would be alive today (maybe not cos bush still would have gone in). So yeah he took us to war based on lies which resulted in hundreds of thousands of needless loss of life. thats a war crime to me and I'll use what ever term I like as its my opinion. I respect your opinion on the subject so please respect mine. can't believe we are even arguing over the wording to lable what tony blair is. do you think he should be locked up or not for what he did out of curiosity?" The Muslim nutters are doing a good job of slaughtering their own kind, without any input or assistance from | |||
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"I can't help but think that all these new people clamouring to join the Labour party to support JC will surely then vote for Labour in an election. The man for me is trying to bring the party back to its socialist roots which Tony Blair took them away from. Here in Scotland Labour became the Tories, the SNP became Labour and hence the Tories all but disappeared. Surely having a political alternative - rather than Tories or Tories light - is what the country is crying out for?" Nope, what % of the electorate do you think the new labour members represent? | |||
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"I can't help but think that all these new people clamouring to join the Labour party to support JC will surely then vote for Labour in an election. The man for me is trying to bring the party back to its socialist roots which Tony Blair took them away from. Here in Scotland Labour became the Tories, the SNP became Labour and hence the Tories all but disappeared. Surely having a political alternative - rather than Tories or Tories light - is what the country is crying out for?" The man is nowhere near Labour's socialist roots. And an alternative that would be a disaster is not much of an alternative at all is it | |||
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"I can't help but think that all these new people clamouring to join the Labour party to support JC will surely then vote for Labour in an election. The man for me is trying to bring the party back to its socialist roots which Tony Blair took them away from. Here in Scotland Labour became the Tories, the SNP became Labour and hence the Tories all but disappeared. Surely having a political alternative - rather than Tories or Tories light - is what the country is crying out for? The man is nowhere near Labour's socialist roots. And an alternative that would be a disaster is not much of an alternative at all is it" It's not an alternative because they've barely said anything about what they would do differently. Typical protest movement - knows everything that's wrong with the current system but doesn't have any better ideas. When asked what they would do they just give wishy washy statements about "fairness" and "the people" | |||
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"Paradigm shift. Corbyn more popular than ever and old "new" Labour willing to tear the party apart than let the members have their say. Shows what contempt they have for democracy. I continue to watch this with interest. " but Corbyn gets more unpopular each week with the people who matter. The workers and the majority of Labour voters | |||
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"Paradigm shift. Corbyn more popular than ever and old "new" Labour willing to tear the party apart than let the members have their say. Shows what contempt they have for democracy. I continue to watch this with interest. but Corbyn gets more unpopular each week with the people who matter. The workers and the majority of Labour voters" Yeah, right. I've never known a more popular politician amongst my peers - although we are those disenfranchised who mostly haven't voted recently. The "we can all be middle class" Blairite dream died years ago. The blairites in the PLP seem to be very much clutching at straws now and are fooling nobody. I may even join the Labour Party at this rate. | |||
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"Paradigm shift. Corbyn more popular than ever and old "new" Labour willing to tear the party apart than let the members have their say. Shows what contempt they have for democracy. I continue to watch this with interest. but Corbyn gets more unpopular each week with the people who matter. The workers and the majority of Labour voters Yeah, right. I've never known a more popular politician amongst my peers - although we are those disenfranchised who mostly haven't voted recently. The "we can all be middle class" Blairite dream died years ago. The blairites in the PLP seem to be very much clutching at straws now and are fooling nobody. I may even join the Labour Party at this rate. " what for? They probably won't be around for long and all the disenfranchised I know would sooner vote UKIP and certainly don't have £25 to waste | |||
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"When will people wake up to Corbynism,it is trying to subvert the parliamentry system through democracy as Hitler did in Germany. He is pure evil"
Yeeeees.
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"When will people wake up to Corbynism,it is trying to subvert the parliamentry system through democracy as Hitler did in Germany. He is pure evil" More Stalin than Hitler to be fair ! | |||
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"Paradigm shift. Corbyn more popular than ever and old "new" Labour willing to tear the party apart than let the members have their say. Shows what contempt they have for democracy. I continue to watch this with interest. but Corbyn gets more unpopular each week with the people who matter. The workers and the majority of Labour voters Yeah, right. I've never known a more popular politician amongst my peers - although we are those disenfranchised who mostly haven't voted recently. The "we can all be middle class" Blairite dream died years ago. The blairites in the PLP seem to be very much clutching at straws now and are fooling nobody. I may even join the Labour Party at this rate. what for? They probably won't be around for long and all the disenfranchised I know would sooner vote UKIP and certainly don't have £25 to waste" Wow you know some bad people if They would rather vote for a racist party than labour at least the ones i know would rather vote lib dem .. Although I am thinking of promoting your F UK party as a reasonable alternative | |||
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"When will people wake up to Corbynism,it is trying to subvert the parliamentry system through democracy as Hitler did in Germany. He is pure evil More Stalin than Hitler to be fair !"
Is he bollocks! He's a relativeley wolly social democrat. Certainly to the right of yer Nye Bevans of this world... | |||
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"When will people wake up to Corbynism,it is trying to subvert the parliamentry system through democracy as Hitler did in Germany. He is pure evil More Stalin than Hitler to be fair !
Is he bollocks! He's a relativeley wolly social democrat. Certainly to the right of yer Nye Bevans of this world..."Who? | |||
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"The downfall of labour started as tony blair was bullied into making gordon brown the chancellor back in 97', he knew it wouldn't work. If tony would be there now, they would be a force to recon with, he is the longest winning pm, winning election after election. He is also lying manipulating twat, who has never apologised directly to families whose sons he set off to die, whilst his ugly bitch off a wife prosecutes and profits from his decisions I don't know how he dares show himself in public. As for the twat Mandelson, he should be shot and have his head out on stick in London And the one great thing that Mr Crobyn stands for is to oppose that sort of sentiment, bless him. Aggression and violence is a bad reaction to any situation.i" Actually that is so far from the truth it is beyond a joke. Corbyn has manipulated and used Momentum... Basically a reborn "militant" to drive his Trotsky agenda through the back doors of Labour. They have used threats..real and in the media to bully anyone who disagrees with them. They are clearly anti-Semitic and Corbyns weak platitudes show he has no intention of tackling this. Bricks through windows, death threats on social media etc....this us the clear face if momentum.....Corbyns vision of his socialist utopia? | |||
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"The downfall of labour started as tony blair was bullied into making gordon brown the chancellor back in 97', he knew it wouldn't work. If tony would be there now, they would be a force to recon with, he is the longest winning pm, winning election after election. He is also lying manipulating twat, who has never apologised directly to families whose sons he set off to die, whilst his ugly bitch off a wife prosecutes and profits from his decisions I don't know how he dares show himself in public. As for the twat Mandelson, he should be shot and have his head out on stick in London And the one great thing that Mr Crobyn stands for is to oppose that sort of sentiment, bless him. Aggression and violence is a bad reaction to any situation.i Actually that is so far from the truth it is beyond a joke. Corbyn has manipulated and used Momentum... Basically a reborn "militant" to drive his Trotsky agenda through the back doors of Labour. They have used threats..real and in the media to bully anyone who disagrees with them. They are clearly anti-Semitic and Corbyns weak platitudes show he has no intention of tackling this. Bricks through windows, death threats on social media etc....this us the clear face if momentum.....Corbyns vision of his socialist utopia?" It's what's happened in every far left country so I don't know why you are surprised. Haven't you seen / read animal farm? | |||
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" Corbyn has manipulated and used Momentum... Basically a reborn "militant" to drive his Trotsky agenda through the back doors of Labour. " Can you elaborate on what you mean by Trotsky agenda? By which I mean can you tell me what a Trotsky agenda is? or Mr Corbyns? | |||
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" Corbyn has manipulated and used Momentum... Basically a reborn "militant" to drive his Trotsky agenda through the back doors of Labour. Can you elaborate on what you mean by Trotsky agenda? By which I mean can you tell me what a Trotsky agenda is? or Mr Corbyns? " Jeez, open you eyes! Just look for yourself on the internet the things that he and his sidekick McDonnell have said and what their influences are and where they came from! They are a couple of madmen | |||
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" Corbyn has manipulated and used Momentum... Basically a reborn "militant" to drive his Trotsky agenda through the back doors of Labour. Can you elaborate on what you mean by Trotsky agenda? By which I mean can you tell me what a Trotsky agenda is? or Mr Corbyns? Jeez, open you eyes! Just look for yourself on the internet the things that he and his sidekick McDonnell have said and what their influences are and where they came from! They are a couple of madmen" Not as mad as bojo though ..what's even more mad is there's idiots who think these people are achievers ... | |||
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"Such as? Either something that shows Corbyn is a mad man or a Trotskyist? " When asked if he was a Marxist during an interview, he replied "that's a good question". Delete Marxist and insert Facist and that's why normal people are alarmed by him. Marxists have as much blood on their hands as Facists. | |||
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"When will people wake up to Corbynism,it is trying to subvert the parliamentry system through democracy as Hitler did in Germany. He is pure evil More Stalin than Hitler to be fair !
Is he bollocks! He's a relativeley wolly social democrat. Certainly to the right of yer Nye Bevans of this world...
Who? "Are you honestly asking me who Aneurin Bevan was? Loving the hysteria on this thread, by the way. Straw clutching at its finest. | |||
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"Such as? Either something that shows Corbyn is a mad man or a Trotskyist? When asked if he was a Marxist during an interview, he replied "that's a good question". Delete Marxist and insert Facist and that's why normal people are alarmed by him. Marxists have as much blood on their hands as Facists. " Haha.... yeeeeees. You know full well that Marx has had a massive influence in socialist politics. Also; you are getting marxist and communist mixed up. | |||
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"Such as? Either something that shows Corbyn is a mad man or a Trotskyist? When asked if he was a Marxist during an interview, he replied "that's a good question". Delete Marxist and insert Facist and that's why normal people are alarmed by him. Marxists have as much blood on their hands as Facists. Haha.... yeeeeees. You know full well that Marx has had a massive influence in socialist politics. Also; you are getting marxist and communist mixed up. " No I'm not, it's a distinction without a difference. They both want to enslave people, one just does it with elections. | |||
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"When will people wake up to Corbynism,it is trying to subvert the parliamentry system through democracy as Hitler did in Germany. He is pure evil More Stalin than Hitler to be fair !
Is he bollocks! He's a relativeley wolly social democrat. Certainly to the right of yer Nye Bevans of this world...
Who?
Are you honestly asking me who Aneurin Bevan was?
Loving the hysteria on this thread, by the way. Straw clutching at its finest. "Hitler is left of Genghis Khan, Corbyn is right of Bevan. What's your point? | |||
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"Such as? Either something that shows Corbyn is a mad man or a Trotskyist? When asked if he was a Marxist during an interview, he replied "that's a good question". Delete Marxist and insert Facist and that's why normal people are alarmed by him. Marxists have as much blood on their hands as Facists. Haha.... yeeeeees. You know full well that Marx has had a massive influence in socialist politics. Also; you are getting marxist and communist mixed up. No I'm not, it's a distinction without a difference. They both want to enslave people, one just does it with elections. " It really isn't. It's a massive difference. You could even make a case that the likes of Blair owe their existence in part to Marxism. | |||
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"Such as? Either something that shows Corbyn is a mad man or a Trotskyist? When asked if he was a Marxist during an interview, he replied "that's a good question". Delete Marxist and insert Facist and that's why normal people are alarmed by him. Marxists have as much blood on their hands as Facists. Haha.... yeeeeees. You know full well that Marx has had a massive influence in socialist politics. Also; you are getting marxist and communist mixed up. No I'm not, it's a distinction without a difference. They both want to enslave people, one just does it with elections. It really isn't. It's a massive difference. You could even make a case that the likes of Blair owe their existence in part to Marxism. " There are people in the world arguing the world is flat... I do understand why Marxism is popular, unfortunately it's popularity is founded on basic ignorance of economics, psychology and sociology. It's popularity prevails because the alternative modern economic theory is almost as stupid as Marxism itself and an enormous dose of confirmation bias. If I was an ideologue and my theory didn't work in practice then I'd keep rebrandng it over and over again too. | |||
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"Such as? Either something that shows Corbyn is a mad man or a Trotskyist? When asked if he was a Marxist during an interview, he replied "that's a good question". Delete Marxist and insert Facist and that's why normal people are alarmed by him. Marxists have as much blood on their hands as Facists. " 'Fascism and Marxism are often confused because they appeared as political philosophies at roughly the same point in history and some 20th century governments mixed socialist and fascist rhetoric. In a way, though, fascism and Marxism are opposites. Both philosophies call for a strong central government but fascists believe that the role of the people is to serve the state while Marxists believe that the state exists to serve the people.' All of the various Marxist/Communist/Leninist/Trotskyist/Stalinist categories are very difficult to understand and often overlap. Stalinism of course is quite rightly tainted and his actions in practice - he was in fact a sociopath if not worse, who used the platform created by Lenin and Trotsky to brutally take control. He was an authoritarian dictator rather than a Marxist. Karl Marx was primarily a great economist and his genius was not in his Communist Manifesto which he was asked to help Engels with, but in his critique of the shortcomings of capitalism. In this he is one of the three greats, alongside Smith and Keynes. Any economist will tell you his analysis of capitalism is astute. He was primarily engaged with pointing out the problems, which he got right. His criticism came from an idealism of a fairer, equal society where he placed equal worth on each and every individual. As such he inspired many different attempts at changing society. Marx was an idealist, his solutions not suitable for the real world. Though many believe they can be the basis. Indeed the happiest, best performing economies seem to prove that. Corbyn may or may not be a Marxist, he may not know himself how much, philosophically. He certainly agrees with state ownership of the railways and the utilities, but I don't know if he goes further than that. I think he views himself as a democratic socialist and that is as far left as he goes. I am sure you will be able to point me to some quotes or actions that suggest he is more than that and I will revise my opinion Or if not perhaps you could revise yours? I would like to know why he is a Trotskyite at the very least. As far as I am aware, though they may share a lot of the same views, he believes in democracy not revolution. | |||
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"Such as? Either something that shows Corbyn is a mad man or a Trotskyist? When asked if he was a Marxist during an interview, he replied "that's a good question". Delete Marxist and insert Facist and that's why normal people are alarmed by him. Marxists have as much blood on their hands as Facists. 'Fascism and Marxism are often confused because they appeared as political philosophies at roughly the same point in history and some 20th century governments mixed socialist and fascist rhetoric. In a way, though, fascism and Marxism are opposites. Both philosophies call for a strong central government but fascists believe that the role of the people is to serve the state while Marxists believe that the state exists to serve the people.' All of the various Marxist/Communist/Leninist/Trotskyist/Stalinist categories are very difficult to understand and often overlap. Stalinism of course is quite rightly tainted and his actions in practice - he was in fact a sociopath if not worse, who used the platform created by Lenin and Trotsky to brutally take control. He was an authoritarian dictator rather than a Marxist. Karl Marx was primarily a great economist and his genius was not in his Communist Manifesto which he was asked to help Engels with, but in his critique of the shortcomings of capitalism. In this he is one of the three greats, alongside Smith and Keynes. Any economist will tell you his analysis of capitalism is astute. He was primarily engaged with pointing out the problems, which he got right. His criticism came from an idealism of a fairer, equal society where he placed equal worth on each and every individual. As such he inspired many different attempts at changing society. Marx was an idealist, his solutions not suitable for the real world. Though many believe they can be the basis. Indeed the happiest, best performing economies seem to prove that. Corbyn may or may not be a Marxist, he may not know himself how much, philosophically. He certainly agrees with state ownership of the railways and the utilities, but I don't know if he goes further than that. I think he views himself as a democratic socialist and that is as far left as he goes. I am sure you will be able to point me to some quotes or actions that suggest he is more than that and I will revise my opinion Or if not perhaps you could revise yours? I would like to know why he is a Trotskyite at the very least. As far as I am aware, though they may share a lot of the same views, he believes in democracy not revolution. " why call for re selection of MP's then? | |||
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"Such as? Either something that shows Corbyn is a mad man or a Trotskyist? When asked if he was a Marxist during an interview, he replied "that's a good question". Delete Marxist and insert Facist and that's why normal people are alarmed by him. Marxists have as much blood on their hands as Facists. 'Fascism and Marxism are often confused because they appeared as political philosophies at roughly the same point in history and some 20th century governments mixed socialist and fascist rhetoric. In a way, though, fascism and Marxism are opposites. Both philosophies call for a strong central government but fascists believe that the role of the people is to serve the state while Marxists believe that the state exists to serve the people.' All of the various Marxist/Communist/Leninist/Trotskyist/Stalinist categories are very difficult to understand and often overlap. Stalinism of course is quite rightly tainted and his actions in practice - he was in fact a sociopath if not worse, who used the platform created by Lenin and Trotsky to brutally take control. He was an authoritarian dictator rather than a Marxist. Karl Marx was primarily a great economist and his genius was not in his Communist Manifesto which he was asked to help Engels with, but in his critique of the shortcomings of capitalism. In this he is one of the three greats, alongside Smith and Keynes. Any economist will tell you his analysis of capitalism is astute. He was primarily engaged with pointing out the problems, which he got right. His criticism came from an idealism of a fairer, equal society where he placed equal worth on each and every individual. As such he inspired many different attempts at changing society. Marx was an idealist, his solutions not suitable for the real world. Though many believe they can be the basis. Indeed the happiest, best performing economies seem to prove that. Corbyn may or may not be a Marxist, he may not know himself how much, philosophically. He certainly agrees with state ownership of the railways and the utilities, but I don't know if he goes further than that. I think he views himself as a democratic socialist and that is as far left as he goes. I am sure you will be able to point me to some quotes or actions that suggest he is more than that and I will revise my opinion Or if not perhaps you could revise yours? I would like to know why he is a Trotskyite at the very least. As far as I am aware, though they may share a lot of the same views, he believes in democracy not revolution. " Marx isn't really an economist and if he is then he was simply pathetic at it. His entire analysis is based on zero sum economics and the he forgot to factor in changes in productivity. It's hard to find the words to explain how basic these mistakes are. Kind of like designing a football team formation that doesn't have a goalkeeper... The fact that he made these mistakes long after Adam Smith means that he was either very very stupid or did it deliberately. Neither paints him in a good light. | |||
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" why call for re selection of MP's then?" That's all you could come up with? I believe it is the party members who are angered by the PLP who are calling for that. 'Speaking at the launch of his leadership campaign, Mr Corbyn said there would be a “full and open selection process” to choose the Labour candidate in every seat for the next general election. Asked about his rebel MPs, the Labour leader insisted he would forgive them: “I have the ability to forget some of the unpleasant things said about me.” But he made clear that there would be no guarantees that they would automatically become the Labour candidate for their own seat. “There would be a full selection process in every constituency but the sitting MP?.?.?.?would have an opportunity to put their name forward,” said Mr Corbyn. “So there will be a full and open selection process for every constituency Labour party through the whole of the UK.” It sounds like he is in favour of democracy and abiding by the rules to me. | |||
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" why call for re selection of MP's then? That's all you could come up with? I believe it is the party members who are angered by the PLP who are calling for that. 'Speaking at the launch of his leadership campaign, Mr Corbyn said there would be a “full and open selection process” to choose the Labour candidate in every seat for the next general election. Asked about his rebel MPs, the Labour leader insisted he would forgive them: “I have the ability to forget some of the unpleasant things said about me.” But he made clear that there would be no guarantees that they would automatically become the Labour candidate for their own seat. “There would be a full selection process in every constituency but the sitting MP?.?.?.?would have an opportunity to put their name forward,” said Mr Corbyn. “So there will be a full and open selection process for every constituency Labour party through the whole of the UK.” It sounds like he is in favour of democracy and abiding by the rules to me." not at all. He is just trying to get people who agree with him and if that happens the party will be wiped out | |||
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" Marx isn't really an economist and if he is then he was simply pathetic at it. His entire analysis is based on zero sum economics and the he forgot to factor in changes in productivity. It's hard to find the words to explain how basic these mistakes are. Kind of like designing a football team formation that doesn't have a goalkeeper... The fact that he made these mistakes long after Adam Smith means that he was either very very stupid or did it deliberately. Neither paints him in a good light. " Marx wasn't really an economist? I see. What was he then? The 20th Century was dominated by a struggle between economic ideologies wasn't it? One third of the population of the planet tried to operate under governments inspired by the idea's of Marx. Or if he was he was really pathetic at it? Really? Have a google of 'greatest economists in history'. Pretty much everyone with any credibility sticks him in the top 10, if not the top 3. As for whether he was any good, as I say, his critique of Capitalism is his value, not so much his proposed solutions. He was an idealist who didn't sufficiently allow for human nature. His influence on Communism overshadow's his value as an economist, especially in the west and especially as the forms of more pure Communism tried have largely failed. Here is a question for you, since you appear to regard yourself as an economics genius, do you think history has shown that capitalism leads to fluctuations and economic crises? Here is a second one. Whose theories essentially predicted that and explained why? | |||
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" Marx isn't really an economist and if he is then he was simply pathetic at it. His entire analysis is based on zero sum economics and the he forgot to factor in changes in productivity. It's hard to find the words to explain how basic these mistakes are. Kind of like designing a football team formation that doesn't have a goalkeeper... The fact that he made these mistakes long after Adam Smith means that he was either very very stupid or did it deliberately. Neither paints him in a good light. Marx wasn't really an economist? I see. What was he then? The 20th Century was dominated by a struggle between economic ideologies wasn't it? One third of the population of the planet tried to operate under governments inspired by the idea's of Marx. Or if he was he was really pathetic at it? Really? Have a google of 'greatest economists in history'. Pretty much everyone with any credibility sticks him in the top 10, if not the top 3. As for whether he was any good, as I say, his critique of Capitalism is his value, not so much his proposed solutions. He was an idealist who didn't sufficiently allow for human nature. His influence on Communism overshadow's his value as an economist, especially in the west and especially as the forms of more pure Communism tried have largely failed. Here is a question for you, since you appear to regard yourself as an economics genius, do you think history has shown that capitalism leads to fluctuations and economic crises? Here is a second one. Whose theories essentially predicted that and explained why? " He was a philosopher basically. Someone who can criticise other people's ideas but doesn't have any better suggestions. They are ten a penny. Blaming your problems on other people is never going to be unpopular or go out of fashion though. In the industry we call it a "cheap pop". Try to actually address you points rather than getting all sarcastic. - Either you think economics is zero sum or you don't. - Either you think producivity is important to economics or you don't. - Either Marx did account for these factors or he didn't. - I say he didn't. - If you don't believe he did then feel free to correct me? The answer to your other questions are: Joseph Schumpeter in "capitalism, socialism and democracy". Alternatively you could go with: Peter Drucker "the poverty of modern economic theory". Warren Buffet also predicted 2008 would happen, albeit at a non- specific date but he called it 5 years before it happened. | |||
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" not at all. He is just trying to get people who agree with him and if that happens the party will be wiped out" There are half a million labour party members. They will decide if the MP represents them, not Corbyn. You still think this is all organised by something the right wing press referred to in the 70's and 80's as the 'looney left'. You need to rethink. Those numbers can't possibly be made up of SWP, TUSC, SP, AWL infiltrators. Tot all the left/far left parties together and they won't number 5,000 members between them. I'm not left wing by the way, nor have I decided Corbyn is my guy. I just think he hasn't been given a chance yet and I know he is a decent man. The other thing I know is he gets so much flak from the Right and the Establishment that they must be terrified he maybe could bring about change. In a way, he already is. Did our new PM suggest putting workers on the boards of companies? | |||
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" The other thing I know is he gets so much flak from the Right and the Establishment that they must be terrified he maybe could bring about change. " Yes I'm terrified he would bring about the kind of change Stalin introduced to Russia or Moa bought to China. His poodle carries Mao's red book after all... | |||
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"'We want to build a society where no one & no community is left behind for want of investment, housing or work' Why are you afraid of this? What don't you like about it? Do you like such massive inequality that the country has following 37 years of Policies of the Right?" Three reasons really; 1. That's a variation of what Stalin, Mao and Hitler said, 2. I'm not gullible, 3. I read history books. | |||
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"So you want to build a society that wants to leave people and communities behind, for want of investment housing or work. You got it with Thatcher, partially carried on with Blair and definitely carried on with Cameron and Osborne. Why do you say you are not gullible? If you read history books you will understand that generally society has moved gradually to the left, to fairer equal societies, but it has always been a battle against the Right. However the last 30 years, post Reaganism/Thatcherism has seen a hopefully temporary reversal the other way. You should get on the right side of history. " I do at least agree that society has moved gradually to the left. If you read Schumpeter then you'll see that he predicted as much. The problem is where that leads... | |||
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" The other thing I know is he gets so much flak from the Right and the Establishment that they must be terrified he maybe could bring about change. Yes I'm terrified he would bring about the kind of change Stalin introduced to Russia or Moa bought to China. His poodle carries Mao's red book after all... " I didn't know that Corbyn carried Mao's little red book. Ah I get it now. You mean McDonnell is CORBYN'S poodle. oops silly me. | |||
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" not at all. He is just trying to get people who agree with him and if that happens the party will be wiped out There are half a million labour party members. They will decide if the MP represents them, not Corbyn. You still think this is all organised by something the right wing press referred to in the 70's and 80's as the 'looney left'. You need to rethink. Those numbers can't possibly be made up of SWP, TUSC, SP, AWL infiltrators. Tot all the left/far left parties together and they won't number 5,000 members between them. I'm not left wing by the way, nor have I decided Corbyn is my guy. I just think he hasn't been given a chance yet and I know he is a decent man. The other thing I know is he gets so much flak from the Right and the Establishment that they must be terrified he maybe could bring about change. In a way, he already is. Did our new PM suggest putting workers on the boards of companies?" he is not a decent man at all, he is a racist, bigot, hypocrite, coward and a bully. The people supporting him may not all be members of the organisations you named but I would suggest that most are just young and idealistic and have fallen for the softly spoken cuddly Corbyn side and are too inexperienced/naive to see the sinister side lying beneath the surface and do not understand the devastating effects his kind of politics and policies would produce | |||
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" not at all. He is just trying to get people who agree with him and if that happens the party will be wiped out There are half a million labour party members. They will decide if the MP represents them, not Corbyn. You still think this is all organised by something the right wing press referred to in the 70's and 80's as the 'looney left'. You need to rethink. Those numbers can't possibly be made up of SWP, TUSC, SP, AWL infiltrators. Tot all the left/far left parties together and they won't number 5,000 members between them. I'm not left wing by the way, nor have I decided Corbyn is my guy. I just think he hasn't been given a chance yet and I know he is a decent man. The other thing I know is he gets so much flak from the Right and the Establishment that they must be terrified he maybe could bring about change. In a way, he already is. Did our new PM suggest putting workers on the boards of companies? he is not a decent man at all, he is a racist, bigot, hypocrite, coward and a bully. The people supporting him may not all be members of the organisations you named but I would suggest that most are just young and idealistic and have fallen for the softly spoken cuddly Corbyn side and are too inexperienced/naive to see the sinister side lying beneath the surface and do not understand the devastating effects his kind of politics and policies would produce" Correct. | |||
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"You mean because he predicted it might lead to an authoritarian dictatorship? When did he predict that, by the way?" Nope, his analysis is far more complex than the silly, simplistic types of conclusions Marx would come out with. 1942. | |||
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"What I done understand about labour is that are are billed as the caring party that stand for equal rights yet It's not in doubt that they attract anti Semites. Many of their supporters are misogynists. The momentum groups t shirts that are selling to promote Corbyns campaign are made in Bangladesh sweat shops. The gender pay gap amongst Corbyns staff in incredible with men being paid much more Han women and promoted quicker through the ranks than women. The momentum groups tactics of bullying anyone who disagrees with Corbyn is well documented. They are now breaking into each other's offices and seem to think this is acceptable behaviour. Hardly caring is it ?" It's what we call "double speak" | |||
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"What I done understand about labour is that are are billed as the caring party that stand for equal rights yet It's not in doubt that they attract anti Semites. " You confuse Antisemitism with the rise of Anti-Zionism due to the conduct of the Israeli State. The two are not the same and propagating the antisemitic lie to silence any protests against Israel effectively gives support to the illegal State subjugation of Palestinians over the last 70 years! "Many of their supporters are misogynists." "The momentum groups t shirts that are selling to promote Corbyns campaign are made in Bangladesh sweat shops." Please show your proof. "The gender pay gap amongst Corbyns staff in incredible with men being paid much more Han women and promoted quicker through the ranks than women." Really? I have news for you, the salaries of MPs are not set by the Labour Party, and ministers and shadow ministers remunerations are part of MPs pay. You can go onto the HoP website and check them all out if you dont believe me! "The momentum groups tactics of bullying anyone who disagrees with Corbyn is well documented." Again, really? Please give one non biased, interdependently corroborated instance of this. "They are now breaking into each other's offices and seem to think this is acceptable behaviour." This is a total lie! The office involved is the office of The Shadow Chief Secretary to the Treasury, Ms Malhotra resigned from that post on 24th June and should have vacated it that day. Instead she has squatted there for a month, I for one think JC has shown great patience not acting to remove her and her staff until now. Or are you claiming that if a person resigns from their job (in order to harm their boss) they have the right to occupy their work space for as long as they like to increase the damage they are doing? "Hardly caring is it ?" Really? I would say your post is like most media coverage of JC hardly credible. | |||
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" "The momentum groups t shirts that are selling to promote Corbyns campaign are made in Bangladesh sweat shops." Please show your proof. " http://www.standard.co.uk/news/politics/jeremy-corbyns-campaign-tshirts-made-by-povertystricken-bangledeshi-workers-a3303041.html | |||
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" "The gender pay gap amongst Corbyns staff in incredible with men being paid much more Han women and promoted quicker through the ranks than women." Really? I have news for you, the salaries of MPs are not set by the Labour Party, and ministers and shadow ministers remunerations are part of MPs pay. You can go onto the HoP website and check them all out if you dont believe me! " I'm not talking about MP's I'm talking about Corbyns staff. http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/07/21/jeremy-corbyn-accused-of-hypocrisy-for-refusing-to-publish-gende/ | |||
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" "What I done understand about labour is that are are billed as the caring party that stand for equal rights yet It's not in doubt that they attract anti Semites. " You confuse Antisemitism with the rise of Anti-Zionism due to the conduct of the Israeli State. The two are not the same and propagating the antisemitic lie to silence any protests against Israel effectively gives support to the illegal State subjugation of Palestinians over the last 70 years! " I am not confusing anything with the rise of Anti Zionism. Abusing Jewish people just because they are Jewish then adding the hashtag freepalestine does not mean you are not anti Semitic. | |||
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" "The momentum groups tactics of bullying anyone who disagrees with Corbyn is well documented." Again, really? Please give one non biased, interdependently corroborated instance of this. " http://www.thetimes.co.uk/tto/news/politics/article4652230.ece http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2015/dec/03/corbyn-urged-to-disband-momentum-after-labour-mps-report-bullying-and-abuse https://www.politicshome.com/news/uk/social-affairs/politics/news/59638/leaked-momentum-conversations-reveal-internal-bullying There's a lot more but unsure whether links to other news outlets are allowed. | |||
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" "Many of their supporters are misogynists." " I see you didn't dispute this. | |||
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"The office involved is the office of The Shadow Chief Secretary to the Treasury, Ms Malhotra resigned from that post on 24th June and should have vacated it that day. Instead she has squatted there for a month, I for one think JC has shown great patience not acting to remove her and her staff until now. Or are you claiming that if a person resigns from their job (in order to harm their boss) they have the right to occupy their work space for as long as they like to increase the damage they are doing?" she could hardly just put her stuff in a couple of carrier bags and go and find an empty office, there is a shortage of offices for MP's at Westminster hence the costly Portcullis house across the road.. and until an MP's office is relocated by the staff of the palace of Westminster that MP still has staff and still has work etc to do on behalf of her constituents, those constituents are entitled to expect that such things are where necessary kept confidential.. given you seem knowledgeable about this what 'damage' was she doing btw..? care to elaborate.. | |||
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" This is a total lie! The office involved is the office of The Shadow Chief Secretary to the Treasury, Ms Malhotra resigned from that post on 24th June and should have vacated it that day. Instead she has squatted there for a month, I for one think JC has shown great patience not acting to remove her and her staff until now. Or are you claiming that if a person resigns from their job (in order to harm their boss) they have the right to occupy their work space for as long as they like to increase the damage they are doing? " First of all you start by saying this is a lie then you go on to explain why they broke into her office. Did they break in or not ? Only the police have permission to enter an MP's office without permission and only when they have attained a warrant. She had applied to move office immediately after resigning, do you expect her to carry out her business in the corridor ? | |||
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"The latest ICM poll shows how Corbyn is getting his message through to the public at large. Tories 43% Labour 27% UKIP 13% Lib Dems 8% The Tories biggest lead since the 1983 general election (Thatcher landslide over Foot) and enough for a 100 seat majority. The far left of Labour party can support him as much as they like, but bottom line is that he will always be, like Foot, an election loser." You forgot to mention how they actually lost seats in the local elections too. Pretty difficult to do that when you're in opposition. | |||
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"There seems to be a lot of denial going on from those who wont accept that the rise of 'momentum' and a rise in threats against those opposed to Corbyn, 'momentum' are no doubt mostly well meaning people but they have been infiltrated by old militant and others on the far left.. Len Mclusky saying that such attacks are those on the right in disguise or are the state organisations eg. MI5 etc is poor judgement.. Wallasey clp has been suspended and Angela Eagle advised by Merseyside police to avoid her surgery due to a credible death threat.. they need to sort out the mess because as it stands they are not an effective opposition.." By "well meaning" you mean that they believe in their ideology. Like Nazi's did... | |||
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"There seems to be a lot of denial going on from those who wont accept that the rise of 'momentum' and a rise in threats against those opposed to Corbyn, 'momentum' are no doubt mostly well meaning people but they have been infiltrated by old militant and others on the far left.. Len Mclusky saying that such attacks are those on the right in disguise or are the state organisations eg. MI5 etc is poor judgement.. Wallasey clp has been suspended and Angela Eagle advised by Merseyside police to avoid her surgery due to a credible death threat.. they need to sort out the mess because as it stands they are not an effective opposition.. By "well meaning" you mean that they believe in their ideology. Like Nazi's did... " | |||
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"There seems to be a lot of denial going on from those who wont accept that the rise of 'momentum' and a rise in threats against those opposed to Corbyn, 'momentum' are no doubt mostly well meaning people but they have been infiltrated by old militant and others on the far left.. Len Mclusky saying that such attacks are those on the right in disguise or are the state organisations eg. MI5 etc is poor judgement.. Wallasey clp has been suspended and Angela Eagle advised by Merseyside police to avoid her surgery due to a credible death threat.. they need to sort out the mess because as it stands they are not an effective opposition.. By "well meaning" you mean that they believe in their ideology. Like Nazi's did... " I think you know I don't mean anything at all like that vile ideology, some will be of the left, some will be disenfranchised old Labour pre Blair and some will be just your average 'working class' who feel that the party has moved away and Corbyn can in their opinion move it back to what it once was. I think most of them will not approve of what a minority has been up to thus far.. not that I think its an electable party with him in charge, I also think there has been infiltration from some old militant etc who are more about protest and want a bandwagon to attach themselves to as there is with the far right.. | |||
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"There seems to be a lot of denial going on from those who wont accept that the rise of 'momentum' and a rise in threats against those opposed to Corbyn, 'momentum' are no doubt mostly well meaning people but they have been infiltrated by old militant and others on the far left.. Len Mclusky saying that such attacks are those on the right in disguise or are the state organisations eg. MI5 etc is poor judgement.. Wallasey clp has been suspended and Angela Eagle advised by Merseyside police to avoid her surgery due to a credible death threat.. they need to sort out the mess because as it stands they are not an effective opposition.. By "well meaning" you mean that they believe in their ideology. Like Nazi's did... I think you know I don't mean anything at all like that vile ideology, some will be of the left, some will be disenfranchised old Labour pre Blair and some will be just your average 'working class' who feel that the party has moved away and Corbyn can in their opinion move it back to what it once was. I think most of them will not approve of what a minority has been up to thus far.. not that I think its an electable party with him in charge, I also think there has been infiltration from some old militant etc who are more about protest and want a bandwagon to attach themselves to as there is with the far right.. " Personally I don't find the Nazi's any more or less vile than the Soviet Union or Mao's China. I despise all idealogues equally and don't belive anything good about their intentions, other than they'd gladly pave the wave to hell with them | |||
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"Angela Eagle advised by Merseyside police to avoid her surgery due to a credible death threat.. " Not according to Mersyside Police. A Merseyside Police statement said Ms Eagle approached them and they gave her some security advice but did NOT tell her to avoid her surgery nor did they say there was a credible death threat! | |||
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"First of all you start by saying this is a lie then you go on to explain why they broke into her office. Did they break in or not ? Only the police have permission to enter an MP's office without permission and only when they have attained a warrant. She had applied to move office immediately after resigning, do you expect her to carry out her business in the corridor ? " It was not her office! Do you understand that? It does not matter what she applied for or not after resigning it was not her office! Many backbench MPs (of all sides) have to share offices, find their own outside the Palace of Westminster or work in the corridors, tearooms and library of parliament, what makes her so special that she can squat in a shadow ministers office? | |||
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"Angela Eagle advised by Merseyside police to avoid her surgery due to a credible death threat.. Not according to Mersyside Police. A Merseyside Police statement said Ms Eagle approached them and they gave her some security advice but did NOT tell her to avoid her surgery nor did they say there was a credible death threat! " she was advised by email from Merseyside police to not hold her regular drop in surgeries due to safety concerns, prior to that she was sent a death threat and a man has been arrested.. its in the public domain.. | |||
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"First of all you start by saying this is a lie then you go on to explain why they broke into her office. Did they break in or not ? Only the police have permission to enter an MP's office without permission and only when they have attained a warrant. She had applied to move office immediately after resigning, do you expect her to carry out her business in the corridor ? It was not her office! Do you understand that? It does not matter what she applied for or not after resigning it was not her office! Many backbench MPs (of all sides) have to share offices, find their own outside the Palace of Westminster or work in the corridors, tearooms and library of parliament, what makes her so special that she can squat in a shadow ministers office?" No one was permitted to enter it without her permission or without a warrant, do you not understand that ? | |||
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"Angela Eagle advised by Merseyside police to avoid her surgery due to a credible death threat.. Not according to Mersyside Police. A Merseyside Police statement said Ms Eagle approached them and they gave her some security advice but did NOT tell her to avoid her surgery nor did they say there was a credible death threat! " http://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/news/liverpool-news/police-advice-led-angela-eagle-11652120 | |||
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" "The momentum groups tactics of bullying anyone who disagrees with Corbyn is well documented." Again, really? Please give one non biased, interdependently corroborated instance of this. http://www.thetimes.co.uk/tto/news/politics/article4652230.ece http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2015/dec/03/corbyn-urged-to-disband-momentum-after-labour-mps-report-bullying-and-abuse https://www.politicshome.com/news/uk/social-affairs/politics/news/59638/leaked-momentum-conversations-reveal-internal-bullying There's a lot more but unsure whether links to other news outlets are allowed. " Doh! | |||
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" No one was permitted to enter it without her permission or without a warrant, do you not understand that ?" Not after it ceased to be her office, because it was not her office, it is the office of the The Shadow Chief Secretary to the Treasury. She is not The Shadow Chief Secretary to the Treasury, she resigned! | |||
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" No one was permitted to enter it without her permission or without a warrant, do you not understand that ? Not after it ceased to be her office, because it was not her office, it is the office of the The Shadow Chief Secretary to the Treasury. She is not The Shadow Chief Secretary to the Treasury, she resigned!" Which just goes to show the uncaring attitude that labour and Corbyn has to its subordinates. As soon as you cease to be a part of the Corbyn machine you are treated like dog shit. Would this action have occurred if it was a man leaving his role ? We can only speculate but given labours record of misogyny I very much doubt it. | |||
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