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Strike! Junior doctors and teachers

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By *icketysplits OP   Woman
over a year ago

Way over Yonder, that's where I'm bound

Teachers are out today.

Junior doctors have just rejected the contract with government, with the potential for more strikes.

With a government in transition do you think more will take advantage of this to take their stand?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

why not?

hit when the iron is hot!

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By *mmabluTV/TS
over a year ago

upton wirral

They are a discrace,damaging are childrens future,teachers are so selfish

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"They are a discrace,damaging are childrens future,teachers are so selfish"

pay them more then

everyone is entitled to stand up for their terms & conditions of employment and if no negotiation can be settled then a strike may be the only action

You can always put your kids to private schooling

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By *heBirminghamWeekendMan
over a year ago

here

Disgraceful.

Hope the government stands firm

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Teachers should strike outside of term time to ensure no childs education is affected

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By *horehouseCouple
over a year ago

dissatisfied


"They are a discrace,damaging are childrens future,teachers are so selfish

pay them more then

everyone is entitled to stand up for their terms & conditions of employment and if no negotiation can be settled then a strike may be the only action

You can always put your kids to private schooling "

Hope this doesn't become a habit but I agree with the first part just not the private school part ..go for it and stand up for your rights and improve them ...

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By *icketysplits OP   Woman
over a year ago

Way over Yonder, that's where I'm bound


"Teachers should strike outside of term time to ensure no childs education is affected

"

So don't do the lesson plans? A strike that affects no one isn't a strike.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Teachers should strike outside of term time to ensure no childs education is affected

So don't do the lesson plans? A strike that affects no one isn't a strike.

"

I think you may struggle with the concept of sarcasm

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By *icketysplits OP   Woman
over a year ago

Way over Yonder, that's where I'm bound


"Teachers should strike outside of term time to ensure no childs education is affected

So don't do the lesson plans? A strike that affects no one isn't a strike.

I think you may struggle with the concept of sarcasm "

It's so difficult to differentiate on your posts as we seem to basically disagree on most issues.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Teachers should strike outside of term time to ensure no childs education is affected

So don't do the lesson plans? A strike that affects no one isn't a strike.

I think you may struggle with the concept of sarcasm

It's so difficult to differentiate on your posts as we seem to basically disagree on most issues.

"

Fair comment. Can we agree you have a great profile picture

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By *icketysplits OP   Woman
over a year ago

Way over Yonder, that's where I'm bound


"Teachers should strike outside of term time to ensure no childs education is affected

So don't do the lesson plans? A strike that affects no one isn't a strike.

I think you may struggle with the concept of sarcasm

It's so difficult to differentiate on your posts as we seem to basically disagree on most issues.

Fair comment. Can we agree you have a great profile picture "

We can agree I have a great photographer.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Teachers should strike outside of term time to ensure no childs education is affected

So don't do the lesson plans? A strike that affects no one isn't a strike.

I think you may struggle with the concept of sarcasm

It's so difficult to differentiate on your posts as we seem to basically disagree on most issues.

Fair comment. Can we agree you have a great profile picture

We can agree I have a great photographer."

Can't even agree on that Did we use to be married

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

They are getting as bad as the tube drivers.

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By *horehouseCouple
over a year ago

dissatisfied


"They are getting as bad as the tube drivers."

Why? Do you think UK citizens should loose all their rights.

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By *oncupiscentTonyMan
over a year ago

Kent

Jezza Hunt a shoe in for the brexit negotiating team shurely?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"They are getting as bad as the tube drivers.

Why? Do you think UK citizens should loose all their rights. "
No I don't. We will see if it gets better or worse with brexit.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"They are getting as bad as the tube drivers.

Why? Do you think UK citizens should loose all their rights. "

If they bitch about parents taking kids on holidays in term time then what the fuck do they expect parents to say when they go on strike every year?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I don't get the sense, in spite of the vote, that there is an appetite amongst junior doctors for any more strikes.

There's still a huge amount of anger though.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"They are getting as bad as the tube drivers.

Why? Do you think UK citizens should loose all their rights.

If they bitch about parents taking kids on holidays in term time then what the fuck do they expect parents to say when they go on strike every year? "

I don't know that teachers do bitch about that - apart from having to implement stupid rules brought in by Gove.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"They are getting as bad as the tube drivers.

Why? Do you think UK citizens should loose all their rights.

If they bitch about parents taking kids on holidays in term time then what the fuck do they expect parents to say when they go on strike every year?

I don't know that teachers do bitch about that - apart from having to implement stupid rules brought in by Gove.

"

Ever tired asking a headteacher for permission to take time out of term?

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By *icketysplits OP   Woman
over a year ago

Way over Yonder, that's where I'm bound


"They are getting as bad as the tube drivers.

Why? Do you think UK citizens should loose all their rights.

If they bitch about parents taking kids on holidays in term time then what the fuck do they expect parents to say when they go on strike every year?

I don't know that teachers do bitch about that - apart from having to implement stupid rules brought in by Gove.

Ever tired asking a headteacher for permission to take time out of term? "

The headteacher is following the orders for from on high. Headteachers used to use their judgement. Now the rules are such that that is not permitted.

I have heard heads indicate to parents that 'sick leave would be a different matter' as their way of giving tacit permission.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"They are getting as bad as the tube drivers.

Why? Do you think UK citizens should loose all their rights.

If they bitch about parents taking kids on holidays in term time then what the fuck do they expect parents to say when they go on strike every year?

I don't know that teachers do bitch about that - apart from having to implement stupid rules brought in by Gove.

Ever tired asking a headteacher for permission to take time out of term?

The headteacher is following the orders for from on high. Headteachers used to use their judgement. Now the rules are such that that is not permitted.

I have heard heads indicate to parents that 'sick leave would be a different matter' as their way of giving tacit permission.

"

Ah yes, the Adolf Eichmann defence. Personally if my employer was such a twat that my job didn't allow for any discretion then I'd quit and go do something... less robotic. I can't really respect a jobsworth to be honest and for every one who winks and looks the other way there are two who take a lot of pleasure enforcing the rules.

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By *icketysplits OP   Woman
over a year ago

Way over Yonder, that's where I'm bound


"They are getting as bad as the tube drivers.

Why? Do you think UK citizens should loose all their rights.

If they bitch about parents taking kids on holidays in term time then what the fuck do they expect parents to say when they go on strike every year?

I don't know that teachers do bitch about that - apart from having to implement stupid rules brought in by Gove.

Ever tired asking a headteacher for permission to take time out of term?

The headteacher is following the orders for from on high. Headteachers used to use their judgement. Now the rules are such that that is not permitted.

I have heard heads indicate to parents that 'sick leave would be a different matter' as their way of giving tacit permission.

Ah yes, the Adolf Eichmann defence. Personally if my employer was such a twat that my job didn't allow for any discretion then I'd quit and go do something... less robotic. I can't really respect a jobsworth to be honest and for every one who winks and looks the other way there are two who take a lot of pleasure enforcing the rules. "

If they aren't jobsworths they lose their jobs after Ofsted note the number of days of holiday leave they have approved.

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By *oncupiscentTonyMan
over a year ago

Kent


"They are getting as bad as the tube drivers.

Why? Do you think UK citizens should loose all their rights.

If they bitch about parents taking kids on holidays in term time then what the fuck do they expect parents to say when they go on strike every year?

I don't know that teachers do bitch about that - apart from having to implement stupid rules brought in by Gove.

Ever tired asking a headteacher for permission to take time out of term?

The headteacher is following the orders for from on high. Headteachers used to use their judgement. Now the rules are such that that is not permitted.

I have heard heads indicate to parents that 'sick leave would be a different matter' as their way of giving tacit permission.

Ah yes, the Adolf Eichmann defence. Personally if my employer was such a twat that my job didn't allow for any discretion then I'd quit and go do something... less robotic. I can't really respect a jobsworth to be honest and for every one who winks and looks the other way there are two who take a lot of pleasure enforcing the rules. "

That's part of the problem, retention levels are at rock bottom, thanks in no small part to the previous education secretary.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"They are getting as bad as the tube drivers.

Why? Do you think UK citizens should loose all their rights.

If they bitch about parents taking kids on holidays in term time then what the fuck do they expect parents to say when they go on strike every year?

I don't know that teachers do bitch about that - apart from having to implement stupid rules brought in by Gove.

Ever tired asking a headteacher for permission to take time out of term?

The headteacher is following the orders for from on high. Headteachers used to use their judgement. Now the rules are such that that is not permitted.

I have heard heads indicate to parents that 'sick leave would be a different matter' as their way of giving tacit permission.

Ah yes, the Adolf Eichmann defence. Personally if my employer was such a twat that my job didn't allow for any discretion then I'd quit and go do something... less robotic. I can't really respect a jobsworth to be honest and for every one who winks and looks the other way there are two who take a lot of pleasure enforcing the rules.

If they aren't jobsworths they lose their jobs after Ofsted note the number of days of holiday leave they have approved.

"

As I say, I wouldn't do a job where I didn't have any discretion and therefore I don't respect people that would rather be treated that way than do something else. If you do, no problem. Different philosophies.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"They are getting as bad as the tube drivers.

Why? Do you think UK citizens should loose all their rights.

If they bitch about parents taking kids on holidays in term time then what the fuck do they expect parents to say when they go on strike every year?

I don't know that teachers do bitch about that - apart from having to implement stupid rules brought in by Gove.

Ever tired asking a headteacher for permission to take time out of term?

The headteacher is following the orders for from on high. Headteachers used to use their judgement. Now the rules are such that that is not permitted.

I have heard heads indicate to parents that 'sick leave would be a different matter' as their way of giving tacit permission.

Ah yes, the Adolf Eichmann defence. Personally if my employer was such a twat that my job didn't allow for any discretion then I'd quit and go do something... less robotic. I can't really respect a jobsworth to be honest and for every one who winks and looks the other way there are two who take a lot of pleasure enforcing the rules.

If they aren't jobsworths they lose their jobs after Ofsted note the number of days of holiday leave they have approved.

As I say, I wouldn't do a job where I didn't have any discretion and therefore I don't respect people that would rather be treated that way than do something else. If you do, no problem. Different philosophies. "

Maybe that's why some decide to strike - they want some autonomy..?

As mentioned above by another poster - the conditions of work have changed - particularly in recent years - the descretion has diminished in some areas and increased in others.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"They are getting as bad as the tube drivers.

Why? Do you think UK citizens should loose all their rights.

If they bitch about parents taking kids on holidays in term time then what the fuck do they expect parents to say when they go on strike every year?

I don't know that teachers do bitch about that - apart from having to implement stupid rules brought in by Gove.

Ever tired asking a headteacher for permission to take time out of term?

The headteacher is following the orders for from on high. Headteachers used to use their judgement. Now the rules are such that that is not permitted.

I have heard heads indicate to parents that 'sick leave would be a different matter' as their way of giving tacit permission.

Ah yes, the Adolf Eichmann defence. Personally if my employer was such a twat that my job didn't allow for any discretion then I'd quit and go do something... less robotic. I can't really respect a jobsworth to be honest and for every one who winks and looks the other way there are two who take a lot of pleasure enforcing the rules.

If they aren't jobsworths they lose their jobs after Ofsted note the number of days of holiday leave they have approved.

As I say, I wouldn't do a job where I didn't have any discretion and therefore I don't respect people that would rather be treated that way than do something else. If you do, no problem. Different philosophies.

Maybe that's why some decide to strike - they want some autonomy..?

As mentioned above by another poster - the conditions of work have changed - particularly in recent years - the descretion has diminished in some areas and increased in others. "

Everyone wants autonomy, it's a fundamental prerequisite to sustaining inate motivation. The problem is that when the process of frankly, dumbing down, teaching started it's the best that leave first because they are the ones who have other career options. Their spots get filled with spineless deadwood that are just glad to have a job. So the question would be how far along that process they are? But my guess would be past the point of return (i.e the % of deadwood has reached tipping point)

It's not just teachers though, I was bitching about the lack of discretion police have these days too.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"They are getting as bad as the tube drivers.

Why? Do you think UK citizens should loose all their rights.

If they bitch about parents taking kids on holidays in term time then what the fuck do they expect parents to say when they go on strike every year?

I don't know that teachers do bitch about that - apart from having to implement stupid rules brought in by Gove.

Ever tired asking a headteacher for permission to take time out of term?

The headteacher is following the orders for from on high. Headteachers used to use their judgement. Now the rules are such that that is not permitted.

I have heard heads indicate to parents that 'sick leave would be a different matter' as their way of giving tacit permission.

Ah yes, the Adolf Eichmann defence. Personally if my employer was such a twat that my job didn't allow for any discretion then I'd quit and go do something... less robotic. I can't really respect a jobsworth to be honest and for every one who winks and looks the other way there are two who take a lot of pleasure enforcing the rules.

If they aren't jobsworths they lose their jobs after Ofsted note the number of days of holiday leave they have approved.

As I say, I wouldn't do a job where I didn't have any discretion and therefore I don't respect people that would rather be treated that way than do something else. If you do, no problem. Different philosophies.

Maybe that's why some decide to strike - they want some autonomy..?

As mentioned above by another poster - the conditions of work have changed - particularly in recent years - the descretion has diminished in some areas and increased in others.

Everyone wants autonomy, it's a fundamental prerequisite to sustaining inate motivation. The problem is that when the process of frankly, dumbing down, teaching started it's the best that leave first because they are the ones who have other career options. Their spots get filled with spineless deadwood that are just glad to have a job. So the question would be how far along that process they are? But my guess would be past the point of return (i.e the % of deadwood has reached tipping point)

It's not just teachers though, I was bitching about the lack of discretion police have these days too. "

I agree...even Wilshaw recently suggested that there is a brain drain - particularly at management level of teaching. I suspect that given 40% of teachers leave within 5 years, and many super graduate teach first trainees leave after 2 years, that plenty do seek autonomy and self direction elsewhere. The ones that remain - either they aren't good enough, lack confidence, feel too old or have masochistic tendencies. I am overly simplifying the scenario,admittedly but it's probably not too far removed from reality.

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By *illwill69uMan
over a year ago

moston

I found Nicky Morgan hilarious when she said teachers were "playing politics with children’s futures".

This from a politician who represents a government that recently had to make a complete U turn after trying to introduce legislation to acadamise all English and Welsh schools.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"I found Nicky Morgan hilarious when she said teachers were "playing politics with children’s futures".

This from a politician who represents a government that recently had to make a complete U turn after trying to introduce legislation to acadamise all English and Welsh schools."

Politics and education do not mix...

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"I found Nicky Morgan hilarious when she said teachers were "playing politics with children’s futures".

This from a politician who represents a government that recently had to make a complete U turn after trying to introduce legislation to acadamise all English and Welsh schools.

Politics and education do not mix..."

Should not mix. The fact that they do is one of the reasons state schools are so shit.

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By *illwill69uMan
over a year ago

moston


"I found Nicky Morgan hilarious when she said teachers were "playing politics with children’s futures".

This from a politician who represents a government that recently had to make a complete U turn after trying to introduce legislation to acadamise all English and Welsh schools.

Politics and education do not mix...

Should not mix. The fact that they do is one of the reasons state schools are so shit. "

Ah but it does make for great posturing! Shame is we had a state education system that was second to none in the Grammar, Technical and Secondary Mod system, it just needed investment. But in our usual way rather than invest to improve things we cut funding and called it levelling the field.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"I found Nicky Morgan hilarious when she said teachers were "playing politics with children’s futures".

This from a politician who represents a government that recently had to make a complete U turn after trying to introduce legislation to acadamise all English and Welsh schools.

Politics and education do not mix...

Should not mix. The fact that they do is one of the reasons state schools are so shit.

Ah but it does make for great posturing! Shame is we had a state education system that was second to none in the Grammar, Technical and Secondary Mod system, it just needed investment. But in our usual way rather than invest to improve things we cut funding and called it levelling the field."

It can still be great - if as as someone mentioned earlier, the profession had some autonomy... It won't change when we the system is lopsided in favour of accountability and assessment over teaching and pedagogy.

Sometimes it feels as though politicians just don't care that much about state education

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"I found Nicky Morgan hilarious when she said teachers were "playing politics with children’s futures".

This from a politician who represents a government that recently had to make a complete U turn after trying to introduce legislation to acadamise all English and Welsh schools.

Politics and education do not mix...

Should not mix. The fact that they do is one of the reasons state schools are so shit.

Ah but it does make for great posturing! Shame is we had a state education system that was second to none in the Grammar, Technical and Secondary Mod system, it just needed investment. But in our usual way rather than invest to improve things we cut funding and called it levelling the field.

It can still be great - if as as someone mentioned earlier, the profession had some autonomy... It won't change when we the system is lopsided in favour of accountability and assessment over teaching and pedagogy.

Sometimes it feels as though politicians just don't care that much about state education "

They care about it! They just care about using it to build the career of the minister.

If it was perfect, the minister would still change stuff because nobody builds a reputation on maintaining the status quo. But don't worry, it'll never be remotely close to perfect because the ministers will never stop tinkering for the sake of tinkering.

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By *illwill69uMan
over a year ago

moston


"If it was perfect, the minister would still change stuff because nobody builds a reputation on maintaining the status quo. But don't worry, it'll never be remotely close to perfect because the ministers will never stop tinkering for the sake of tinkering. "

Ah...

Thatcher the milk snatcher! The present that never stopped cutting.

She did OK out of fiddling with education. It gave her a start and set the agenda for 40 years of politics.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"

If they bitch about parents taking kids on holidays in term time then what the fuck do they expect parents to say when they go on strike every year? "

Teachers don't complain when parents take kids on holiday in term time. That's headteachers. Teachers are happy if kids have a great time on a holiday, can be such a valuable time for a child.

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