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"Mayoral election. More than twice as many people voted for Labour than Reform. Is this a result of Farage pulli v all supporters away from Manchester, to help him in Clacton, or is this a symptom of a downward spiral for Reform that started when Farage was discovered to have received £5 million from a Thai based Billionaire?" This time Labour got more than twice as many votes as Reform, but 2 years ago they got 9 times as many votes. The number of Labour votes dropped by 26%, while the Reform votes rose by over 200%. If any party could be said to be in a downward spiral it doesn't look like it's Reform. | |||
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"Mayoral election. More than twice as many people voted for Labour than Reform. Is this a result of Farage pulli v all supporters away from Manchester, to help him in Clacton, or is this a symptom of a downward spiral for Reform that started when Farage was discovered to have received £5 million from a Thai based Billionaire? This time Labour got more than twice as many votes as Reform, but 2 years ago they got 9 times as many votes. The number of Labour votes dropped by 26%, while the Reform votes rose by over 200%. If any party could be said to be in a downward spiral it doesn't look like it's Reform." | |||
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"National opinion polls Reform down 7% Thankfully the racist party is collapsing Mayoral election. More than twice as many people voted for Labour than Reform. Is this a result of Farage pulli v all supporters away from Manchester, to help him in Clacton, or is this a symptom of a downward spiral for Reform that started when Farage was discovered to have received £5 million from a Thai based Billionaire? This time Labour got more than twice as many votes as Reform, but 2 years ago they got 9 times as many votes. The number of Labour votes dropped by 26%, while the Reform votes rose by over 200%. If any party could be said to be in a downward spiral it doesn't look like it's Reform." ,A rather strange post devoid from reality. It is a small drop from an all time high . Have you actually analysed Reform membership. It represents all Nationalities | |||
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"Mayoral election. More than twice as many people voted for Labour than Reform. Is this a result of Farage pulli v all supporters away from Manchester, to help him in Clacton, or is this a symptom of a downward spiral for Reform that started when Farage was discovered to have received £5 million from a Thai based Billionaire? This time Labour got more than twice as many votes as Reform, but 2 years ago they got 9 times as many votes. The number of Labour votes dropped by 26%, while the Reform votes rose by over 200%. If any party could be said to be in a downward spiral it doesn't look like it's Reform." Every single political party attempts to colour a defeat with some kind of victory. All kinds of excuses emerge: low polling, votes dropping for opposing parties and going up for a preferred party. It’s part of the political game. I seriously doubt if Reform were popping champagne corks last night though. | |||
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" Every single political party attempts to colour a defeat with some kind of victory. All kinds of excuses emerge: low polling, votes dropping for opposing parties and going up for a preferred party. It’s part of the political game. I seriously doubt if Reform were popping champagne corks last night though. " Yes. And Clacton will be the same. Anything other than a decisive victory for Farage against fringe/comedy candidates will be spun by most as a big failure for Reform, but they'll spin a narrow win as vindication. | |||
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"At national polls, Reform is down by 4% and the Greens are down by 3%. Labour up by 5% Looks like a combination of the effect of new leader for Labour and what's happening around Farage. The next GE is still years away. There is a good chance that Reform and the Greens wither away by then. But that depends a lot on how Burnham performs. " Be interesting to see the polls after 38th September budget. May unpick the £2 bus fare rise in poll rankings. | |||
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" Every single political party attempts to colour a defeat with some kind of victory. All kinds of excuses emerge: low polling, votes dropping for opposing parties and going up for a preferred party. It’s part of the political game. I seriously doubt if Reform were popping champagne corks last night though. Yes. And Clacton will be the same. Anything other than a decisive victory for Farage against fringe/comedy candidates will be spun by most as a big failure for Reform, but they'll spin a narrow win as vindication." Absolutely. Reform will need a decisive victory in Clacton. Reform will win I think but if Binface wins 20 to 30% of the vote it’ll be embarrassing for the party. One positive thing to emerge from this though: never again will a sitting MP risk resigning their seat under questionable circumstances only to stand again in a by-election for the same seat. The risk of looking a bit of a tit facing a joke candidate as their primary opponent will be too high. A lesson has been learned. Guess we could call it the Farage Rule. | |||
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"At national polls, Reform is down by 4% and the Greens are down by 3%. Labour up by 5% Looks like a combination of the effect of new leader for Labour and what's happening around Farage. The next GE is still years away. There is a good chance that Reform and the Greens wither away by then. But that depends a lot on how Burnham performs. Be interesting to see the polls after 38th September budget. May unpick the £2 bus fare rise in poll rankings. " Yeah that budget is going to be a decisive factor  | |||
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"At national polls, Reform is down by 4% and the Greens are down by 3%. Labour up by 5% Looks like a combination of the effect of new leader for Labour and what's happening around Farage. The next GE is still years away. There is a good chance that Reform and the Greens wither away by then. But that depends a lot on how Burnham performs. Be interesting to see the polls after 38th September budget. May unpick the £2 bus fare rise in poll rankings. " If they can do a good budget and avoid any scandal or major infighting/U turns then we may have seen the high point of Reform. If it turns out the new leader just has different excuses for raising more tax then Reform may still affect the next GE, though I still don't think they will come close to winning | |||
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"It’s all about the optics. When Burnham decided to stand in Makerfield, Reform were talking about winning the Manchester mayoralty, then Burnham won convincingly in Makerfield and Farage shit his pants over his £5 million definitely not payment for becoming an MP. Farage’s ego then took over and he decided he needed to pour all Reform’s resources into defending what should be their safest seat against a man with a bin on his head. The optics for Reform are really, really bad." They certainly are. Politics 101: choose your battles carefully. | |||
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"At national polls, Reform is down by 4% and the Greens are down by 3%. Labour up by 5% Looks like a combination of the effect of new leader for Labour and what's happening around Farage. The next GE is still years away. There is a good chance that Reform and the Greens wither away by then. But that depends a lot on how Burnham performs. Be interesting to see the polls after 38th September budget. May unpick the £2 bus fare rise in poll rankings. " Ah the 38th of September, it will be here before we know it | |||
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"Mayoral election. More than twice as many people voted for Labour than Reform. Is this a result of Farage pulli v all supporters away from Manchester, to help him in Clacton, or is this a symptom of a downward spiral for Reform that started when Farage was discovered to have received £5 million from a Thai based Billionaire?" "This time Labour got more than twice as many votes as Reform, but 2 years ago they got 9 times as many votes. The number of Labour votes dropped by 26%, while the Reform votes rose by over 200%. If any party could be said to be in a downward spiral it doesn't look like it's Reform." "Every single political party attempts to colour a defeat with some kind of victory. All kinds of excuses emerge: low polling, votes dropping for opposing parties and going up for a preferred party. It’s part of the political game. I seriously doubt if Reform were popping champagne corks last night though." They certainly weren't, it's a thumping disappointment for them. Both they and the polls said that they'd do much better, and they've failed to live up to expectations. But to claim that yesterday's results are evidence of a downward spiral for Reform is obviously incorrect. | |||
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"But to claim that yesterday's results are evidence of a downward spiral for Reform is obviously incorrect." Happy to be corrected but haven't they lost the last 3 by elections, plus the Makerfield one and now this one..? Agree its not exactly a 'spiral' but the direction of travel isnt in their favour.. Anyone but Reform seems to be how people are voting and Farage is a large part of that more than likely.. | |||
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"But to claim that yesterday's results are evidence of a downward spiral for Reform is obviously incorrect. Happy to be corrected but haven't they lost the last 3 by elections, plus the Makerfield one and now this one..? Agree its not exactly a 'spiral' but the direction of travel isnt in their favour.. Anyone but Reform seems to be how people are voting and Farage is a large part of that more than likely.." Reform is Farage, and his popularity seems to peak at about 25% the more corrupt and ridiculous Farage looks, the worse Reform will perform. Right now Farage looks very corrupt, and utterly ridiculous. | |||
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"Mayoral election. More than twice as many people voted for Labour than Reform. Is this a result of Farage pulli v all supporters away from Manchester, to help him in Clacton, or is this a symptom of a downward spiral for Reform that started when Farage was discovered to have received £5 million from a Thai based Billionaire? This time Labour got more than twice as many votes as Reform, but 2 years ago they got 9 times as many votes. The number of Labour votes dropped by 26%, while the Reform votes rose by over 200%. If any party could be said to be in a downward spiral it doesn't look like it's Reform. Every single political party attempts to colour a defeat with some kind of victory. All kinds of excuses emerge: low polling, votes dropping for opposing parties and going up for a preferred party. It’s part of the political game. I seriously doubt if Reform were popping champagne corks last night though. They certainly weren't, it's a thumping disappointment for them. Both they and the polls said that they'd do much better, and they've failed to live up to expectations. But to claim that yesterday's results are evidence of a downward spiral for Reform is obviously incorrect." A long way to go to the next GE (maybe?) and Reform are certainly in the mix. However, Farage’s approval rating has hit its lowest level since the 2024 GE. According to More in Common’s latest approval rating for party leaders, Farage has dropped to -32%, a drop of around 10 points in two weeks. For context, Burnham has hit +19%. Reform might not be in a downward spiral but equally the party isn’t in a place that feels like a government in waiting. I imagine Reform HQ will be working 24/7 to address this. They cannot afford anymore own goals like the unnecessary Clacton by-election. | |||
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"Happy to be corrected but haven't they lost the last 3 by elections, plus the Makerfield one and now this one..?" They've lost the last 2, they didn't stand in 2021. It was the Conservatives that have lost all 4 Manchester mayoral elections, but the original poster doesn't mention them. "Agree its not exactly a 'spiral' but the direction of travel isnt in their favour.." They stood once before in 2024 when they got 49,532 votes, and then again this time when they got 157,178 votes. If we're basing our judgement just on the Manchester mayoral elections then the direction of travel is very positive for them. "Anyone but Reform seems to be how people are voting and Farage is a large part of that more than likely.." Reform got 111,928 first choice votes on Thursday, and then another 45,250 second choice votes. Those numbers don't support the idea that everyone is voting 'anyone but Farage'. | |||
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"Happy to be corrected but haven't they lost the last 3 by elections, plus the Makerfield one and now this one..? They've lost the last 2, they didn't stand in 2021. It was the Conservatives that have lost all 4 Manchester mayoral elections, but the original poster doesn't mention them. Agree its not exactly a 'spiral' but the direction of travel isnt in their favour.. They stood once before in 2024 when they got 49,532 votes, and then again this time when they got 157,178 votes. If we're basing our judgement just on the Manchester mayoral elections then the direction of travel is very positive for them. Anyone but Reform seems to be how people are voting and Farage is a large part of that more than likely.. Reform got 111,928 first choice votes on Thursday, and then another 45,250 second choice votes. Those numbers don't support the idea that everyone is voting 'anyone but Farage'." When i said by elections I meant Westminster .. Gorton and Denton, Arbroath, Aberdeen South and Makerfield have all turned away from reform this year.. 66% Labour and 33% reform in the second round is pretty telling.. But hey, keep believing in Nigel eh..  | |||
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"But to claim that yesterday's results are evidence of a downward spiral for Reform is obviously incorrect. Happy to be corrected but haven't they lost the last 3 by elections, plus the Makerfield one and now this one..? Agree its not exactly a 'spiral' but the direction of travel isnt in their favour.. Anyone but Reform seems to be how people are voting and Farage is a large part of that more than likely.. Reform is Farage, and his popularity seems to peak at about 25% the more corrupt and ridiculous Farage looks, the worse Reform will perform. Right now Farage looks very corrupt, and utterly ridiculous." To add without any evidence to support my claim that older voters (passing away) and new of age younger voters are not Reform supporters | |||
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"But to claim that yesterday's results are evidence of a downward spiral for Reform is obviously incorrect. Happy to be corrected but haven't they lost the last 3 by elections, plus the Makerfield one and now this one..? Agree its not exactly a 'spiral' but the direction of travel isnt in their favour.. Anyone but Reform seems to be how people are voting and Farage is a large part of that more than likely.. Reform is Farage, and his popularity seems to peak at about 25% the more corrupt and ridiculous Farage looks, the worse Reform will perform. Right now Farage looks very corrupt, and utterly ridiculous. To add without any evidence to support my claim that older voters (passing away) and new of age younger voters are not Reform supporters " This may be a valid point, there was a bit of a flurry of stories about the supposed support for Reform among young men, but when the figures were interrogated properly, it turned out to be nonsense. | |||
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"Happy to be corrected but haven't they lost the last 3 by elections, plus the Makerfield one and now this one..? They've lost the last 2, they didn't stand in 2021. It was the Conservatives that have lost all 4 Manchester mayoral elections, but the original poster doesn't mention them. Agree its not exactly a 'spiral' but the direction of travel isnt in their favour.. They stood once before in 2024 when they got 49,532 votes, and then again this time when they got 157,178 votes. If we're basing our judgement just on the Manchester mayoral elections then the direction of travel is very positive for them. Anyone but Reform seems to be how people are voting and Farage is a large part of that more than likely.. Reform got 111,928 first choice votes on Thursday, and then another 45,250 second choice votes. Those numbers don't support the idea that everyone is voting 'anyone but Farage'. When i said by elections I meant Westminster .. Gorton and Denton, Arbroath, Aberdeen South and Makerfield have all turned away from reform this year.. 66% Labour and 33% reform in the second round is pretty telling.. But hey, keep believing in Nigel eh.. "Some people are so heavily emotionally invested they have to keep believing. | |||
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"Happy to be corrected but haven't they lost the last 3 by elections, plus the Makerfield one and now this one..? They've lost the last 2, they didn't stand in 2021. It was the Conservatives that have lost all 4 Manchester mayoral elections, but the original poster doesn't mention them. Agree its not exactly a 'spiral' but the direction of travel isnt in their favour.. They stood once before in 2024 when they got 49,532 votes, and then again this time when they got 157,178 votes. If we're basing our judgement just on the Manchester mayoral elections then the direction of travel is very positive for them. Anyone but Reform seems to be how people are voting and Farage is a large part of that more than likely.. Reform got 111,928 first choice votes on Thursday, and then another 45,250 second choice votes. Those numbers don't support the idea that everyone is voting 'anyone but Farage'. When i said by elections I meant Westminster .. Gorton and Denton, Arbroath, Aberdeen South and Makerfield have all turned away from reform this year.. 66% Labour and 33% reform in the second round is pretty telling.. But hey, keep believing in Nigel eh..
Some people are so heavily emotionally invested they have to keep believing."But, but.. They do repeatedly say (some not all) that they dont support the grifter..  | |||
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"Happy to be corrected but haven't they lost the last 3 by elections, plus the Makerfield one and now this one..? They've lost the last 2, they didn't stand in 2021. It was the Conservatives that have lost all 4 Manchester mayoral elections, but the original poster doesn't mention them. Agree its not exactly a 'spiral' but the direction of travel isnt in their favour.. They stood once before in 2024 when they got 49,532 votes, and then again this time when they got 157,178 votes. If we're basing our judgement just on the Manchester mayoral elections then the direction of travel is very positive for them. Anyone but Reform seems to be how people are voting and Farage is a large part of that more than likely.. Reform got 111,928 first choice votes on Thursday, and then another 45,250 second choice votes. Those numbers don't support the idea that everyone is voting 'anyone but Farage'. When i said by elections I meant Westminster .. Gorton and Denton, Arbroath, Aberdeen South and Makerfield have all turned away from reform this year.. 66% Labour and 33% reform in the second round is pretty telling.. But hey, keep believing in Nigel eh..
Some people are so heavily emotionally invested they have to keep believing.
But, but..
They do repeatedly say (some not all) that they dont support the grifter.. "Yeah, they get very upset when people criticise the person they don’t support though. 🤷 | |||
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"Happy to be corrected but haven't they lost the last 3 by elections, plus the Makerfield one and now this one..? They've lost the last 2, they didn't stand in 2021. It was the Conservatives that have lost all 4 Manchester mayoral elections, but the original poster doesn't mention them. Agree its not exactly a 'spiral' but the direction of travel isnt in their favour.. They stood once before in 2024 when they got 49,532 votes, and then again this time when they got 157,178 votes. If we're basing our judgement just on the Manchester mayoral elections then the direction of travel is very positive for them. Anyone but Reform seems to be how people are voting and Farage is a large part of that more than likely.. Reform got 111,928 first choice votes on Thursday, and then another 45,250 second choice votes. Those numbers don't support the idea that everyone is voting 'anyone but Farage'. When i said by elections I meant Westminster .. Gorton and Denton, Arbroath, Aberdeen South and Makerfield have all turned away from reform this year.. 66% Labour and 33% reform in the second round is pretty telling.. But hey, keep believing in Nigel eh..
Some people are so heavily emotionally invested they have to keep believing.
But, but..
They do repeatedly say (some not all) that they dont support the grifter..
Yeah, they get very upset when people criticise the person they don’t support though. 🤷"As the Saint said..? Funny old game.. | |||
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"Happy to be corrected but haven't they lost the last 3 by elections, plus the Makerfield one and now this one..? They've lost the last 2, they didn't stand in 2021. It was the Conservatives that have lost all 4 Manchester mayoral elections, but the original poster doesn't mention them. Agree its not exactly a 'spiral' but the direction of travel isnt in their favour.. They stood once before in 2024 when they got 49,532 votes, and then again this time when they got 157,178 votes. If we're basing our judgement just on the Manchester mayoral elections then the direction of travel is very positive for them. Anyone but Reform seems to be how people are voting and Farage is a large part of that more than likely.. Reform got 111,928 first choice votes on Thursday, and then another 45,250 second choice votes. Those numbers don't support the idea that everyone is voting 'anyone but Farage'. When i said by elections I meant Westminster .. Gorton and Denton, Arbroath, Aberdeen South and Makerfield have all turned away from reform this year.. 66% Labour and 33% reform in the second round is pretty telling.. But hey, keep believing in Nigel eh..
Some people are so heavily emotionally invested they have to keep believing.
But, but..
They do repeatedly say (some not all) that they dont support the grifter..
Yeah, they get very upset when people criticise the person they don’t support though. 🤷
As the Saint said..?
Funny old game.."I think was Greavesy, but point taken. | |||
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"When i said by elections I meant Westminster .." Ah, well, then my comments weren't relevant. "Gorton and Denton, Arbroath, Aberdeen South and Makerfield have all turned away from reform this year.." "Turned away from" isn't good phrasing as Reform have never held any of those seats. "Failed to win" would be more accurate. "66% Labour and 33% reform in the second round is pretty telling.." It tells us that people in that area support Labour far more than Reform. But it doesn't show that Reform are spiralling down like the OP said. "But hey, keep believing in Nigel eh.." I never cease to be amazed that disagreeing with someone gets me labelled as a supporter of the opposite view. | |||
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"Happy to be corrected but haven't they lost the last 3 by elections, plus the Makerfield one and now this one..? They've lost the last 2, they didn't stand in 2021. It was the Conservatives that have lost all 4 Manchester mayoral elections, but the original poster doesn't mention them. Agree its not exactly a 'spiral' but the direction of travel isnt in their favour.. They stood once before in 2024 when they got 49,532 votes, and then again this time when they got 157,178 votes. If we're basing our judgement just on the Manchester mayoral elections then the direction of travel is very positive for them. Anyone but Reform seems to be how people are voting and Farage is a large part of that more than likely.. Reform got 111,928 first choice votes on Thursday, and then another 45,250 second choice votes. Those numbers don't support the idea that everyone is voting 'anyone but Farage'. When i said by elections I meant Westminster .. Gorton and Denton, Arbroath, Aberdeen South and Makerfield have all turned away from reform this year.. 66% Labour and 33% reform in the second round is pretty telling.. But hey, keep believing in Nigel eh..
Some people are so heavily emotionally invested they have to keep believing.
But, but..
They do repeatedly say (some not all) that they dont support the grifter..
Yeah, they get very upset when people criticise the person they don’t support though. 🤷
As the Saint said..?
Funny old game..
I think was Greavesy, but point taken." | |||
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"When i said by elections I meant Westminster .. Ah, well, then my comments weren't relevant. Gorton and Denton, Arbroath, Aberdeen South and Makerfield have all turned away from reform this year.. "Turned away from" isn't good phrasing as Reform have never held any of those seats. "Failed to win" would be more accurate. 66% Labour and 33% reform in the second round is pretty telling.. It tells us that people in that area support Labour far more than Reform. But it doesn't show that Reform are spiralling down like the OP said. But hey, keep believing in Nigel eh.. I never cease to be amazed that disagreeing with someone gets me labelled as a supporter of the opposite view." Cheers but I gave up worrying about formulating sentences when I did my O levels, long before Ai became the go to for some.. I suppose one might say if the cap fits.. | |||
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"I think the original poster needs to access how he expresses the result . Reform came second which is a commendable result for a recently formed party . Interestingly no comment was made on the results of the other parties . ( the Greens , Conservatives and Liberals ) . Reform beat them all by a substantial margin . It looks like a very good result for Reform " Access how I express the result? | |||
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"I think the original poster needs to access how he expresses the result . Reform came second which is a commendable result for a recently formed party . Interestingly no comment was made on the results of the other parties . ( the Greens , Conservatives and Liberals ) . Reform beat them all by a substantial margin . It looks like a very good result for Reform Access how I express the result?" Its a long held tradition that Pat ^ will flim flam, obfuscate and attempt poorly to not accept any reality that doesn't fit his agenda.. He probably means second is the new first or something equally bonkers.. | |||
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"I think the original poster needs to access how he expresses the result . Reform came second which is a commendable result for a recently formed party . Interestingly no comment was made on the results of the other parties . ( the Greens , Conservatives and Liberals ) . Reform beat them all by a substantial margin . It looks like a very good result for Reform Access how I express the result?" You excluded at least three other parties from your comments. Reform beat all three of them by a substantial margin. Just trying to be realistic | |||
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"I think the original poster needs to access how he expresses the result . Reform came second which is a commendable result for a recently formed party . Interestingly no comment was made on the results of the other parties . ( the Greens , Conservatives and Liberals ) . Reform beat them all by a substantial margin . It looks like a very good result for Reform Access how I express the result? You excluded at least three other parties from your comments. Reform beat all three of them by a substantial margin. Just trying to be realistic " None of those parties talked about winning the election, Reform on the other hand… | |||
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"I think the original poster needs to access how he expresses the result . Reform came second which is a commendable result for a recently formed party . Interestingly no comment was made on the results of the other parties . ( the Greens , Conservatives and Liberals ) . Reform beat them all by a substantial margin . It looks like a very good result for Reform Access how I express the result? You excluded at least three other parties from your comments. Reform beat all three of them by a substantial margin. Just trying to be realistic " The new norm seems to be ignoring the wider picture in favour of tribalism. Factual discussion seems to be in decline. | |||
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"I think the original poster needs to access how he expresses the result . Reform came second which is a commendable result for a recently formed party . Interestingly no comment was made on the results of the other parties . ( the Greens , Conservatives and Liberals ) . Reform beat them all by a substantial margin . It looks like a very good result for Reform Access how I express the result? You excluded at least three other parties from your comments. Reform beat all three of them by a substantial margin. Just trying to be realistic The new norm seems to be ignoring the wider picture in favour of tribalism. Factual discussion seems to be in decline. " Possibly yes on the latter point, equally whataboutery has little to do with reality and is simply often a poor attempt at deflecting from that actual reality.. But some continue to use it.. | |||
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"I think the original poster needs to access how he expresses the result . Reform came second which is a commendable result for a recently formed party . Interestingly no comment was made on the results of the other parties . ( the Greens , Conservatives and Liberals ) . Reform beat them all by a substantial margin . It looks like a very good result for Reform Access how I express the result? You excluded at least three other parties from your comments. Reform beat all three of them by a substantial margin. Just trying to be realistic The new norm seems to be ignoring the wider picture in favour of tribalism. Factual discussion seems to be in decline. Possibly yes on the latter point, equally whataboutery has little to do with reality and is simply often a poor attempt at deflecting from that actual reality.. But some continue to use it.." where is the whataboutery in stating the voting figures of the parties? Surely it provides more of an insight than simply saying X won. | |||
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"I think the original poster needs to access how he expresses the result . Reform came second which is a commendable result for a recently formed party . Interestingly no comment was made on the results of the other parties . ( the Greens , Conservatives and Liberals ) . Reform beat them all by a substantial margin . It looks like a very good result for Reform " what an odd to thing to post and completely detached from the fact that labour won the election by a margin far in excess of double the vote that reform lost the election with. what matters is what happens on the day and on this day reform were seen off with a comprehensive defeat. hope this helps. | |||
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"The new norm seems to be ignoring the wider picture in favour of tribalism. Factual discussion seems to be in decline." So much so that some people can't recognise rational discussion of the facts when they see it. | |||
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"I think the original poster needs to access how he expresses the result . Reform came second which is a commendable result for a recently formed party . Interestingly no comment was made on the results of the other parties . ( the Greens , Conservatives and Liberals ) . Reform beat them all by a substantial margin . It looks like a very good result for Reform Access how I express the result? You excluded at least three other parties from your comments. Reform beat all three of them by a substantial margin. Just trying to be realistic The new norm seems to be ignoring the wider picture in favour of tribalism. Factual discussion seems to be in decline. Possibly yes on the latter point, equally whataboutery has little to do with reality and is simply often a poor attempt at deflecting from that actual reality.. But some continue to use it.. where is the whataboutery in stating the voting figures of the parties? Surely it provides more of an insight than simply saying X won." Standard diversion tactics, they all do it as you well know.. Interestingly enough the figures do show an issue that is going to continue to disrupt Nigel and his paymasters plans, a vengeful ex colleague taking votes from him.. | |||
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"I think the original poster needs to access how he expresses the result . Reform came second which is a commendable result for a recently formed party . Interestingly no comment was made on the results of the other parties . ( the Greens , Conservatives and Liberals ) . Reform beat them all by a substantial margin . It looks like a very good result for Reform what an odd to thing to post and completely detached from the fact that labour won the election by a margin far in excess of double the vote that reform lost the election with. what matters is what happens on the day and on this day reform were seen off with a comprehensive defeat. hope this helps." Hardly a comprehensive defeat when one considers that Reform are a newly formed party. It takes time and effort to build up a base. Interestingly neither you or any other posters comment on the results of the other parties, all of which were beaten by Reform by a substantial majority. Maybe the truth hurts. I guess that a swingers site is hardly the platform on which to seek an objective analysis of the results. | |||
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"I think the original poster needs to access how he expresses the result . Reform came second which is a commendable result for a recently formed party . Interestingly no comment was made on the results of the other parties . ( the Greens , Conservatives and Liberals ) . Reform beat them all by a substantial margin . It looks like a very good result for Reform Access how I express the result? You excluded at least three other parties from your comments. Reform beat all three of them by a substantial margin. Just trying to be realistic The new norm seems to be ignoring the wider picture in favour of tribalism. Factual discussion seems to be in decline. Possibly yes on the latter point, equally whataboutery has little to do with reality and is simply often a poor attempt at deflecting from that actual reality.. But some continue to use it.. where is the whataboutery in stating the voting figures of the parties? Surely it provides more of an insight than simply saying X won. Standard diversion tactics, they all do it as you well know.. Interestingly enough the figures do show an issue that is going to continue to disrupt Nigel and his paymasters plans, a vengeful ex colleague taking votes from him.." Just a pity that double standards are not in play - where shall we start ? Mandelson ? Manc Matress ? Stamp duty . Louise Haigh ? Fraud Guyliner ? Dodgy property contracts and loans Tulip Siddiq? How long have you got? Two tier Kier ? Rent boys and lord Ali - Grooming gangs ? Anti semitism ? Why let facts get in the way of a good story - enjoy your weekend despite the fact you have blocked me . | |||
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"I think the original poster needs to access how he expresses the result . Reform came second which is a commendable result for a recently formed party . Interestingly no comment was made on the results of the other parties . ( the Greens , Conservatives and Liberals ) . Reform beat them all by a substantial margin . It looks like a very good result for Reform Access how I express the result? You excluded at least three other parties from your comments. Reform beat all three of them by a substantial margin. Just trying to be realistic The new norm seems to be ignoring the wider picture in favour of tribalism. Factual discussion seems to be in decline. Possibly yes on the latter point, equally whataboutery has little to do with reality and is simply often a poor attempt at deflecting from that actual reality.. But some continue to use it.. where is the whataboutery in stating the voting figures of the parties? Surely it provides more of an insight than simply saying X won. Standard diversion tactics, they all do it as you well know.. Interestingly enough the figures do show an issue that is going to continue to disrupt Nigel and his paymasters plans, a vengeful ex colleague taking votes from him.. Just a pity that double standards are not in play - where shall we start ? Mandelson ? Manc Matress ? Stamp duty . Louise Haigh ? Fraud Guyliner ? Dodgy property contracts and loans Tulip Siddiq? How long have you got? Two tier Kier ? Rent boys and lord Ali - Grooming gangs ? Anti semitism ? Why let facts get in the way of a good story - enjoy your weekend despite the fact you have blocked me . " The whataboutery is strong in this one. | |||
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"I think the original poster needs to access how he expresses the result . Reform came second which is a commendable result for a recently formed party . Interestingly no comment was made on the results of the other parties . ( the Greens , Conservatives and Liberals ) . Reform beat them all by a substantial margin . It looks like a very good result for Reform Access how I express the result? You excluded at least three other parties from your comments. Reform beat all three of them by a substantial margin. Just trying to be realistic The new norm seems to be ignoring the wider picture in favour of tribalism. Factual discussion seems to be in decline. Possibly yes on the latter point, equally whataboutery has little to do with reality and is simply often a poor attempt at deflecting from that actual reality.. But some continue to use it.. where is the whataboutery in stating the voting figures of the parties? Surely it provides more of an insight than simply saying X won. Standard diversion tactics, they all do it as you well know.. Interestingly enough the figures do show an issue that is going to continue to disrupt Nigel and his paymasters plans, a vengeful ex colleague taking votes from him.. Just a pity that double standards are not in play - where shall we start ? Mandelson ? Manc Matress ? Stamp duty . Louise Haigh ? Fraud Guyliner ? Dodgy property contracts and loans Tulip Siddiq? How long have you got? Two tier Kier ? Rent boys and lord Ali - Grooming gangs ? Anti semitism ? Why let facts get in the way of a good story - enjoy your weekend despite the fact you have blocked me . " Don't sweat it fella, pretty sure others will have done so too.. If it makes you happy (not sure it'll remove your blinkers mind) go ahead and press that button.. Enjoy.. | |||
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"Mayoral election. More than twice as many people voted for Labour than Reform. Is this a result of Farage pulli v all supporters away from Manchester, to help him in Clacton, or is this a symptom of a downward spiral for Reform that started when Farage was discovered to have received £5 million from a Thai based Billionaire? " It was a good win for labour and quite important given the new PM just in place will likely be at the top of his popularity at present and for at least a couple of months to come. Failure here especially at his old job would not have been an option. Second place despite any increases is still the first of the losers. What's taking getting used to is the conservatives are hardly ever in the running these days | |||
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" Maybe the truth hurts. I guess that a swingers site is hardly the platform on which to seek an objective analysis of the results. " what an odd thing to write in a post. it appears the truth that reform lost the election is one that is particularly painful for you to accept. hope this helps. | |||
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" Maybe the truth hurts. I guess that a swingers site is hardly the platform on which to seek an objective analysis of the results. what an odd thing to write in a post. it appears the truth that reform lost the election is one that is particularly painful for you to accept. hope this helps." . You probably need to concentrate on the results of the other parties if you want to make an objective analysis. Reform were second bearing the Liberals , Conservatives and the Green party . Most people would be happy to be second if they did not win | |||
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" Maybe the truth hurts. I guess that a swingers site is hardly the platform on which to seek an objective analysis of the results. what an odd thing to write in a post. it appears the truth that reform lost the election is one that is particularly painful for you to accept. hope this helps. . You probably need to concentrate on the results of the other parties if you want to make an objective analysis. Reform were second bearing the Liberals , Conservatives and the Green party . Most people would be happy to be second if they did not win " Reform are having to be happy with not winning quite a lot, lately. | |||
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"Most people would be happy to be second if they did not win" Not Reform. They were hoping to win this one, and the polls said they had a good chance of doing so. To come second with less than half of the votes of Labour was a massive disappointment to them. | |||
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" Maybe the truth hurts. I guess that a swingers site is hardly the platform on which to seek an objective analysis of the results. what an odd thing to write in a post. it appears the truth that reform lost the election is one that is particularly painful for you to accept. hope this helps. . You probably need to concentrate on the results of the other parties if you want to make an objective analysis. Reform were second bearing the Liberals , Conservatives and the Green party . Most people would be happy to be second if they did not win " hi and thanks for the reply. although the content of your posts are very strange and detached from the reality of what actually ocurred. what is important is what happened on the day of the election and you are probably better off concentrating on the facts despite how painful it is for you. I have done my own research which is always my preference and the only conclusion that can be drawn from all the available data is that reform lost the election in a monumental defeat, achieving far less than half the votes of the party that won the election. hope this helps. | |||
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"Most people would be happy to be second if they did not win Not Reform. They were hoping to win this one, and the polls said they had a good chance of doing so. To come second with less than half of the votes of Labour was a massive disappointment to them." This..
It can't be spun any other way than a big rejection by the voters..
And are they simply on a 'bad run' with 4 Parliamentary losses and this one or has the Farage factor lost its sparkle with the revelations about him and his blasé attitude to what looks like him being fully one of the very establishment he claims to oppose with the money he's taken ..?
The thought that 'most people would be happy to be second' in what is a first past the post system is la la land thinking and frankly laughable.. | |||
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"And are they simply on a 'bad run' with 4 Parliamentary losses ..." Calling them loses is a bit misleading. For elections we usually say that a party has "lost" a seat if they previously held it and now don't. Reform hadn't held any of the seats in by-elections this year, so you can't really say that they've lost any of them. You can definitely say that they've failed to win them. In 2024 in Gorton and Denton Reform got 5,142 votes. In 2026 they got 10,578. Quite a sizeable increase. In 2024 in Arbroath and Broughty Ferry Reform got 3,800 votes. In 2026 they got 4,341, going from 4th place to 3rd. A bit of an increase but nothing to shout about. In 2024 in Aberdeen South Reform got 3,199 votes. In 2026 they got just 2,478. A significant drop in a constituency that swung from SNP to Conservative. In 2024 in Makerfield Reform got 13,803 votes. In 2026 they got 15,696. A definite increase, but not by nearly enough to win. So looking at all of those, I don't think anyone can reasonably say that Reform are on a bad run. They increased their vote share in 3 of the 4 elections. | |||
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"And are they simply on a 'bad run' with 4 Parliamentary losses ... Calling them loses is a bit misleading. For elections we usually say that a party has "lost" a seat if they previously held it and now don't. Reform hadn't held any of the seats in by-elections this year, so you can't really say that they've lost any of them. You can definitely say that they've failed to win them. In 2024 in Gorton and Denton Reform got 5,142 votes. In 2026 they got 10,578. Quite a sizeable increase. In 2024 in Arbroath and Broughty Ferry Reform got 3,800 votes. In 2026 they got 4,341, going from 4th place to 3rd. A bit of an increase but nothing to shout about. In 2024 in Aberdeen South Reform got 3,199 votes. In 2026 they got just 2,478. A significant drop in a constituency that swung from SNP to Conservative. In 2024 in Makerfield Reform got 13,803 votes. In 2026 they got 15,696. A definite increase, but not by nearly enough to win. So looking at all of those, I don't think anyone can reasonably say that Reform are on a bad run. They increased their vote share in 3 of the 4 elections." Failures..
5 'losses, failures, coming second, behind the winner, didn't achieve what they set out to (and no second go) etc etc etc etc...
I think your sounding like a press spokesman for them with your analysis..
The average man or woman in the street cares little about such details you’ve researched (tbh i skipped it ) and will in the times we live in most likely think 'well they would say that, wouldnt they'..
'Momentum' is often used in such things and perception is paramount for those trying to sell them as a viable option (which they arent yet by any stretch) | |||
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"I think your sounding like a press spokesman for them with your analysis.. The average man or woman in the street cares little about such details you’ve researched (tbh i skipped it ) ..." I do like the way you've decided that I come across as a Reform spokesman just before admitting that you haven't actually read the post. This is why it's so difficult to have a genuine discussion in this forum, because people read the bits that they agree with, and ignore those that they don't. | |||
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"I think your sounding like a press spokesman for them with your analysis.. The average man or woman in the street cares little about such details you’ve researched (tbh i skipped it ) ... I do like the way you've decided that I come across as a Reform spokesman just before admitting that you haven't actually read the post. This is why it's so difficult to have a genuine discussion in this forum, because people read the bits that they agree with, and ignore those that they don't." I read the salient parts, not the numbers you dug out.. You do sound like a supporter going by your input, to be fair I'm opposed to everything he stands for as my posts reflect.. Playing pedantic with what you believe is the correct phrase for the reslity that reform were well beaten looks like you and others are only seeking to deflect from their attempts this year to be elected.. | |||
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"You do sound like a supporter going by your input, to be fair I'm opposed to everything he stands for as my posts reflect.. Playing pedantic with what you believe is the correct phrase for the reslity that reform were well beaten looks like you and others are only seeking to deflect from their attempts this year to be elected.." I've already said that they were well beaten in the Manchester mayoral election, and that it must have come as a huge disappointment to them. I assume you didn't read those posts. | |||
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"National opinion polls Reform down 7% Thankfully the racist party is collapsing Mayoral election. More than twice as many people voted for Labour than Reform. Is this a result of Farage pulli v all supporters away from Manchester, to help him in Clacton, or is this a symptom of a downward spiral for Reform that started when Farage was discovered to have received £5 million from a Thai based Billionaire? This time Labour got more than twice as many votes as Reform, but 2 years ago they got 9 times as many votes. The number of Labour votes dropped by 26%, while the Reform votes rose by over 200%. If any party could be said to be in a downward spiral it doesn't look like it's Reform." | |||
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"National opinion polls Reform down 7% Thankfully the racist party is collapsing Mayoral election. More than twice as many people voted for Labour than Reform. Is this a result of Farage pulli v all supporters away from Manchester, to help him in Clacton, or is this a symptom of a downward spiral for Reform that started when Farage was discovered to have received £5 million from a Thai based Billionaire? This time Labour got more than twice as many votes as Reform, but 2 years ago they got 9 times as many votes. The number of Labour votes dropped by 26%, while the Reform votes rose by over 200%. If any party could be said to be in a downward spiral it doesn't look like it's Reform." | |||
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"National opinion polls Reform down 7% Thankfully the racist party is collapsing Mayoral election. More than twice as many people voted for Labour than Reform. Is this a result of Farage pulli v all supporters away from Manchester, to help him in Clacton, or is this a symptom of a downward spiral for Reform that started when Farage was discovered to have received £5 million from a Thai based Billionaire? This time Labour got more than twice as many votes as Reform, but 2 years ago they got 9 times as many votes. The number of Labour votes dropped by 26%, while the Reform votes rose by over 200%. If any party could be said to be in a downward spiral it doesn't look like it's Reform." | |||
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"Some bizarre posts on here. Most parties would be happy to come second if they did not win. All those prepared to criticise Reform seem happy to ignore the very poor results of the Liberal Democrats , Conservatives and Green Party. By any standards coming second is a good result for a newly formedparty . " This is a forum thread topic, highlighting aspects of Reform recent performance that's dipping, not the Binface party, et al. It's no surprise that it's reform under the spotlight | |||
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"Some bizarre posts on here. Most parties would be happy to come second if they did not win. All those prepared to criticise Reform seem happy to ignore the very poor results of the Liberal Democrats , Conservatives and Green Party. By any standards coming second is a good result for a newly formedparty . This is a forum thread topic, highlighting aspects of Reform recent performance that's dipping, not the Binface party, et al. It's no surprise that it's reform under the spotlight " Anyone attempting a rational analysis of the results would comment on the performance of the Conservatives, the Liberals and the Green Party. You cannot simply ignore these results because it suits your narrative. Reform came second which to most people is good result and a lot better than the other parties referred to | |||
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"Some bizarre posts on here. Most parties would be happy to come second if they did not win. All those prepared to criticise Reform seem happy to ignore the very poor results of the Liberal Democrats , Conservatives and Green Party. By any standards coming second is a good result for a newly formedparty . This is a forum thread topic, highlighting aspects of Reform recent performance that's dipping, not the Binface party, et al. It's no surprise that it's reform under the spotlight Anyone attempting a rational analysis of the results would comment on the performance of the Conservatives, the Liberals and the Green Party. You cannot simply ignore these results because it suits your narrative. Reform came second which to most people is good result and a lot better than the other parties referred to " There's lots to discuss but it can be helpful to stay on the topic raised, which I recall was Reform potentially having dipped recently | |||
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"There's lots to discuss but it can be helpful to stay on the topic raised, which I recall was Reform potentially having dipped recently " You recall correctly. However in the last general election Reform only got 5 seats out of 650, meaning that if they haven't changed in popularity at all we can expect them to win 1 seat in every 130. This means that the fact that they've failed to win 4 Westminster seats and a mayoralty so far this year doesn't tell us anything useful. | |||
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"Some bizarre posts on here. Most parties would be happy to come second if they did not win. All those prepared to criticise Reform seem happy to ignore the very poor results of the Liberal Democrats , Conservatives and Green Party. By any standards coming second is a good result for a newly formedparty . This is a forum thread topic, highlighting aspects of Reform recent performance that's dipping, not the Binface party, et al. It's no surprise that it's reform under the spotlight Anyone attempting a rational analysis of the results would comment on the performance of the Conservatives, the Liberals and the Green Party. You cannot simply ignore these results because it suits your narrative. Reform came second which to most people is good result and a lot better than the other parties referred to There's lots to discuss but it can be helpful to stay on the topic raised, which I recall was Reform potentially having dipped recently " If what you wish to discuss is a fall in support for Reform you would also have to include the results for all other parties . Reform came second and the other parties came a long way behind them. Maybe you should back your comment up with figures and compare it to othe parties. | |||
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