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"Can't see the problem. Compared to the millions of tons of CO2 generated by fans flying to US for World Cup or people going abroad on summer holidays its less than a drop in the ocean. Like it or not Burnham and others do have to travel and short of using a bike they will generate CO2 emissions. Its an imperfect world but try to understand it." I totally agree that air travel is necessary and will never decrease . The hypocrisy however is also evident with those who campaign for fewer flights effectively saying it's other people that need to take fewer flights. | |||
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"Can't see the problem. Compared to the millions of tons of CO2 generated by fans flying to US for World Cup or people going abroad on summer holidays its less than a drop in the ocean. Like it or not Burnham and others do have to travel and short of using a bike they will generate CO2 emissions. Its an imperfect world but try to understand it." I guess the argument here is Private jet vs normal flights. Also, one would expect the leaders who want the population to reduce usage of fossil fuels to lead by example. | |||
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"It’s a tricky one. He is the prime minister and he does need to travel around, and fast. I don’t think it’s helpful to bash him or anyone else who choses to fly in any one situation. I just try and make the best choice in each case. Walk or cycle if you can. Use public transport if you can. Drive if you can. Fly if all else fails. " Didn't need to be a private jet though. If he absolutely needs to fly for speed, security, convenience or whatever he could take a charter. He's got staff who arrange things, they could synchronise meetings etc to flight times. He talks about a 'cost of living government' whilst in a private jet 🤷♀️ | |||
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"It’s a tricky one. He is the prime minister and he does need to travel around, and fast. I don’t think it’s helpful to bash him or anyone else who choses to fly in any one situation. I just try and make the best choice in each case. Walk or cycle if you can. Use public transport if you can. Drive if you can. Fly if all else fails. Didn't need to be a private jet though. If he absolutely needs to fly for speed, security, convenience or whatever he could take a charter. He's got staff who arrange things, they could synchronise meetings etc to flight times. He talks about a 'cost of living government' whilst in a private jet 🤷♀️" Charter is hiring, which would be the same as a private flight. If you are suggesting a routine commercial flight, the problem is the short domestic distances don't usually have those types of flights that people regularly take, which then takes us back to square one, why does he need to take them. | |||
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"It’s a tricky one. He is the prime minister and he does need to travel around, and fast. I don’t think it’s helpful to bash him or anyone else who choses to fly in any one situation. I just try and make the best choice in each case. Walk or cycle if you can. Use public transport if you can. Drive if you can. Fly if all else fails. Didn't need to be a private jet though. If he absolutely needs to fly for speed, security, convenience or whatever he could take a charter. He's got staff who arrange things, they could synchronise meetings etc to flight times. He talks about a 'cost of living government' whilst in a private jet 🤷♀️ Charter is hiring, which would be the same as a private flight. If you are suggesting a routine commercial flight, the problem is the short domestic distances don't usually have those types of flights that people regularly take, which then takes us back to square one, why does he need to take them. " 🤦 I meant commercial flight I thought you could fly between London and Manchester on a commercial 🤔 | |||
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"It’s a tricky one. He is the prime minister and he does need to travel around, and fast. I don’t think it’s helpful to bash him or anyone else who choses to fly in any one situation. I just try and make the best choice in each case. Walk or cycle if you can. Use public transport if you can. Drive if you can. Fly if all else fails. Didn't need to be a private jet though. If he absolutely needs to fly for speed, security, convenience or whatever he could take a charter. He's got staff who arrange things, they could synchronise meetings etc to flight times. He talks about a 'cost of living government' whilst in a private jet 🤷♀️ Charter is hiring, which would be the same as a private flight. If you are suggesting a routine commercial flight, the problem is the short domestic distances don't usually have those types of flights that people regularly take, which then takes us back to square one, why does he need to take them. 🤦 I meant commercial flight I thought you could fly between London and Manchester on a commercial 🤔" There are flights on that particular route, but the complications of timing and leaving meetings to be on the transport kicks in. It would look really bad if he held up a commercial flight, and the security increases considerably I would have thought. I'm torn between the need to fly and taking the train - driving, if it is domestic I understand it if the route is not served by commercial flights and I also get that he needs to control when he leaves and not be tied to a timetable. Taking the train has the same constraints as above, but I would argue if he left early to be at a meeting he mitigates at least one part of the journey. The more I think about it the more I think it is a rock and hard place choice. | |||
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"It’s a tricky one. He is the prime minister and he does need to travel around, and fast. I don’t think it’s helpful to bash him or anyone else who choses to fly in any one situation. I just try and make the best choice in each case. Walk or cycle if you can. Use public transport if you can. Drive if you can. Fly if all else fails. Didn't need to be a private jet though. If he absolutely needs to fly for speed, security, convenience or whatever he could take a charter. He's got staff who arrange things, they could synchronise meetings etc to flight times. He talks about a 'cost of living government' whilst in a private jet 🤷♀️ Charter is hiring, which would be the same as a private flight. If you are suggesting a routine commercial flight, the problem is the short domestic distances don't usually have those types of flights that people regularly take, which then takes us back to square one, why does he need to take them. 🤦 I meant commercial flight I thought you could fly between London and Manchester on a commercial 🤔 There are flights on that particular route, but the complications of timing and leaving meetings to be on the transport kicks in. It would look really bad if he held up a commercial flight, and the security increases considerably I would have thought. I'm torn between the need to fly and taking the train - driving, if it is domestic I understand it if the route is not served by commercial flights and I also get that he needs to control when he leaves and not be tied to a timetable. Taking the train has the same constraints as above, but I would argue if he left early to be at a meeting he mitigates at least one part of the journey. The more I think about it the more I think it is a rock and hard place choice. " As I said he has someone to manage his diary. I well understand that convenience comes at a cost to the budget and the environment but in the current climate leaders need to be setting an example. | |||
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"All very well talking about taking commercial flights but there is the case for security to be considered. There are enough nutters at large that would love the opportunity to grab their fives minutes of fame by doing something stupid to the PM on a public flight or otherwise. Sadly we now live in an age where those in the public eye have to be segregated from general population." Surely he travels with security | |||
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"Someone has calculated the 3,000 ton carbon footprint. " Who? 🤣🤣🤣 The actual figures for that type of flight are closer to 2.5 | |||
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"I am often passed on the road or prevented from joining junctions by police outrider motor cyclists to facilitate the speedy journey of 2 or 3 identical cars with blacked out windows . I presume they are accompanying politicians between venues . Quite a lots of man power involved and fuel on long journeys. Incidentally I tried to use a more accurate word than "accompanying " but seemingly it's not a permitted FAB word as used in another context. " And? | |||
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"I am often passed on the road or prevented from joining junctions by police outrider motor cyclists to facilitate the speedy journey of 2 or 3 identical cars with blacked out windows . I presume they are accompanying politicians between venues . Quite a lots of man power involved and fuel on long journeys. Incidentally I tried to use a more accurate word than "accompanying " but seemingly it's not a permitted FAB word as used in another context. And?" AND therefore the costs of travel and the carbon consumption are not always as straightforward as one might think at first. | |||
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"I am often passed on the road or prevented from joining junctions by police outrider motor cyclists to facilitate the speedy journey of 2 or 3 identical cars with blacked out windows . I presume they are accompanying politicians between venues . Quite a lots of man power involved and fuel on long journeys. Incidentally I tried to use a more accurate word than "accompanying " but seemingly it's not a permitted FAB word as used in another context. And? AND therefore the costs of travel and the carbon consumption are not always as straightforward as one might think at first. " World leaders have different requirements from the rest of us. This should not be a surprise. | |||
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"It’s a tricky one. He is the prime minister and he does need to travel around, and fast. I don’t think it’s helpful to bash him or anyone else who choses to fly in any one situation. I just try and make the best choice in each case. Walk or cycle if you can. Use public transport if you can. Drive if you can. Fly if all else fails. Didn't need to be a private jet though. If he absolutely needs to fly for speed, security, convenience or whatever he could take a charter. He's got staff who arrange things, they could synchronise meetings etc to flight times. He talks about a 'cost of living government' whilst in a private jet 🤷♀️ Charter is hiring, which would be the same as a private flight. If you are suggesting a routine commercial flight, the problem is the short domestic distances don't usually have those types of flights that people regularly take, which then takes us back to square one, why does he need to take them. 🤦 I meant commercial flight I thought you could fly between London and Manchester on a commercial 🤔 There are flights on that particular route, but the complications of timing and leaving meetings to be on the transport kicks in. It would look really bad if he held up a commercial flight, and the security increases considerably I would have thought. I'm torn between the need to fly and taking the train - driving, if it is domestic I understand it if the route is not served by commercial flights and I also get that he needs to control when he leaves and not be tied to a timetable. Taking the train has the same constraints as above, but I would argue if he left early to be at a meeting he mitigates at least one part of the journey. The more I think about it the more I think it is a rock and hard place choice. As I said he has someone to manage his diary. I well understand that convenience comes at a cost to the budget and the environment but in the current climate leaders need to be setting an example. " I can see the sentiment but as you call them and they are "leaders", they are in a position most of us will never find ourselves in and require many protections above and beyond the general public and attend meetings that have significant national importance. As such I don't follow the rationale that because they have someone who can book their travel and arrange their meetings, it then makes travelling on public transport a feasible solution. | |||
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"It’s a tricky one. He is the prime minister and he does need to travel around, and fast. I don’t think it’s helpful to bash him or anyone else who choses to fly in any one situation. I just try and make the best choice in each case. Walk or cycle if you can. Use public transport if you can. Drive if you can. Fly if all else fails. Didn't need to be a private jet though. If he absolutely needs to fly for speed, security, convenience or whatever he could take a charter. He's got staff who arrange things, they could synchronise meetings etc to flight times. He talks about a 'cost of living government' whilst in a private jet 🤷♀️ Charter is hiring, which would be the same as a private flight. If you are suggesting a routine commercial flight, the problem is the short domestic distances don't usually have those types of flights that people regularly take, which then takes us back to square one, why does he need to take them. 🤦 I meant commercial flight I thought you could fly between London and Manchester on a commercial 🤔 There are flights on that particular route, but the complications of timing and leaving meetings to be on the transport kicks in. It would look really bad if he held up a commercial flight, and the security increases considerably I would have thought. I'm torn between the need to fly and taking the train - driving, if it is domestic I understand it if the route is not served by commercial flights and I also get that he needs to control when he leaves and not be tied to a timetable. Taking the train has the same constraints as above, but I would argue if he left early to be at a meeting he mitigates at least one part of the journey. The more I think about it the more I think it is a rock and hard place choice. As I said he has someone to manage his diary. I well understand that convenience comes at a cost to the budget and the environment but in the current climate leaders need to be setting an example. I can see the sentiment but as you call them and they are "leaders", they are in a position most of us will never find ourselves in and require many protections above and beyond the general public and attend meetings that have significant national importance. As such I don't follow the rationale that because they have someone who can book their travel and arrange their meetings, it then makes travelling on public transport a feasible solution. " I can see there will be occasions when public transport isn't possible. However if he's constantly travelling between no 10 London and no 10 Manchester is he intending to do so by private jet every time? | |||
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"It’s a tricky one. He is the prime minister and he does need to travel around, and fast. I don’t think it’s helpful to bash him or anyone else who choses to fly in any one situation. I just try and make the best choice in each case. Walk or cycle if you can. Use public transport if you can. Drive if you can. Fly if all else fails. Didn't need to be a private jet though. If he absolutely needs to fly for speed, security, convenience or whatever he could take a charter. He's got staff who arrange things, they could synchronise meetings etc to flight times. He talks about a 'cost of living government' whilst in a private jet 🤷♀️ Charter is hiring, which would be the same as a private flight. If you are suggesting a routine commercial flight, the problem is the short domestic distances don't usually have those types of flights that people regularly take, which then takes us back to square one, why does he need to take them. 🤦 I meant commercial flight I thought you could fly between London and Manchester on a commercial 🤔 There are flights on that particular route, but the complications of timing and leaving meetings to be on the transport kicks in. It would look really bad if he held up a commercial flight, and the security increases considerably I would have thought. I'm torn between the need to fly and taking the train - driving, if it is domestic I understand it if the route is not served by commercial flights and I also get that he needs to control when he leaves and not be tied to a timetable. Taking the train has the same constraints as above, but I would argue if he left early to be at a meeting he mitigates at least one part of the journey. The more I think about it the more I think it is a rock and hard place choice. As I said he has someone to manage his diary. I well understand that convenience comes at a cost to the budget and the environment but in the current climate leaders need to be setting an example. I can see the sentiment but as you call them and they are "leaders", they are in a position most of us will never find ourselves in and require many protections above and beyond the general public and attend meetings that have significant national importance. As such I don't follow the rationale that because they have someone who can book their travel and arrange their meetings, it then makes travelling on public transport a feasible solution. I can see there will be occasions when public transport isn't possible. However if he's constantly travelling between no 10 London and no 10 Manchester is he intending to do so by private jet every time?" No idea and that wasn't how I was looking at this as North no 10 and Westminster travel only, but now you have brought it up  .
Would it be better not to have the North no 10 in favour of promoting carbon offsets and removing unnecessary journeys.
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"It’s a tricky one. He is the prime minister and he does need to travel around, and fast. I don’t think it’s helpful to bash him or anyone else who choses to fly in any one situation. I just try and make the best choice in each case. Walk or cycle if you can. Use public transport if you can. Drive if you can. Fly if all else fails. Didn't need to be a private jet though. If he absolutely needs to fly for speed, security, convenience or whatever he could take a charter. He's got staff who arrange things, they could synchronise meetings etc to flight times. He talks about a 'cost of living government' whilst in a private jet 🤷♀️ Charter is hiring, which would be the same as a private flight. If you are suggesting a routine commercial flight, the problem is the short domestic distances don't usually have those types of flights that people regularly take, which then takes us back to square one, why does he need to take them. 🤦 I meant commercial flight I thought you could fly between London and Manchester on a commercial 🤔" I’m dss as m sure BA do a flight between London and Manchester And why was a lease taken out on No 10 North even before Andy stood as a prospective MP | |||
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"King of the £2 bus fares has apparently taken a private jet from London back home to Manchester at a cost to the taxpayer, followed by another flight to Glasgow. Someone has calculated the 3,000 ton carbon footprint. Miliband took 467 people to COP30 with an estimated 24 million mile carbon footprint. Can we take government climate change policies seriously ? " 3000 ton carbon footprint, london-Manc-Glasgow??? This does not ring true🤷♂️ | |||
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" I can see the sentiment but as you call them and they are "leaders", they are in a position most of us will never find ourselves in and require many protections above and beyond the general public and attend meetings that have significant national importance. " Anyone can come up with reasons for why they can't avoid using fossil fuels for their jobs or personal lives. Net Zero targets, as they are spoken of today come with massive inconvenience in terms of cost and practicality. If the leaders want people to put up with these inconveniences for the greater good, they have to set as examples by putting up with inconveniences themselves. If the politicians take private jets wherever they go and lecture the public to avoid using fossil fuels even if it creates a lot of inconvenience, people will ask the leaders to go do one. Having said that, Andy Burnham hasn't really publicised his views on Net Zero targets yet. So calling him a hypocrite now might be premature. | |||
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"Looking at this from another angle. Does the PM, and other politicians, actually need to attend meetings in person? Could many of these meetings not be carried out over secure video calls, zoom meetings, etc? If they want to be serious about global warming, net zero, etc, then surely every avenue to reduce carbon footprints should be considered. " All went fine in lockdown ? | |||
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" I can see the sentiment but as you call them and they are "leaders", they are in a position most of us will never find ourselves in and require many protections above and beyond the general public and attend meetings that have significant national importance. Anyone can come up with reasons for why they can't avoid using fossil fuels for their jobs or personal lives. Net Zero targets, as they are spoken of today come with massive inconvenience in terms of cost and practicality. If the leaders want people to put up with these inconveniences for the greater good, they have to set as examples by putting up with inconveniences themselves. If the politicians take private jets wherever they go and lecture the public to avoid using fossil fuels even if it creates a lot of inconvenience, people will ask the leaders to go do one. Having said that, Andy Burnham hasn't really publicised his views on Net Zero targets yet. So calling him a hypocrite now might be premature." The 2024 Change manifesto reads; Governance and Procurement Institutional Alignment: Mandates that the overarching policy-making frameworks within government departments must legally align with statutory climate and net-zero targets. Public Sector Decarbonisation: Commits to driving down public estate emissions through programs like the Public Sector Decarbonisation Scheme to clean up state-owned buildings and infrastructure. Supplier Requirements: Leverages public procurement by requiring companies bidding for government contracts to have clear, verified carbon reduction plans. Can’t find anything on air travel but these flights, and especially Millibands COP30 extravagance fly in the face of the manifesto. | |||
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"King of the £2 bus fares has apparently taken a private jet from London back home to Manchester at a cost to the taxpayer, followed by another flight to Glasgow. Someone has calculated the 3,000 ton carbon footprint. Miliband took 467 people to COP30 with an estimated 24 million mile carbon footprint. Can we take government climate change policies seriously ? " You know the trip to Glasgow was a scheduled meeting to go to meet all the other leaders of the devolved nations… don’t you? Or is that not acceptable in the narrative being pushed | |||
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"I think he should work remotely from home." No10 not North no10 | |||
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"King of the £2 bus fares has apparently taken a private jet from London back home to Manchester at a cost to the taxpayer, followed by another flight to Glasgow. Someone has calculated the 3,000 ton carbon footprint. Miliband took 467 people to COP30 with an estimated 24 million mile carbon footprint. Can we take government climate change policies seriously ? You know the trip to Glasgow was a scheduled meeting to go to meet all the other leaders of the devolved nations… don’t you? Or is that not acceptable in the narrative being pushed " Well you can pay for his air travel then and not the taxpayer getting screwed | |||
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"I think it’s very funny how some people are desperate to find anything they can to criticise Burnham for, they must be very worried about him." It's more that people are very worried (with good reason) that their cost of living is about to go up with nothing to show for it. __ But on the subject of Air Miles Andy, yes it's hypocrisy to fly short distances whilst preaching about climate change. Especially the unnecessary one to Manchester which could very easily be undertaken in an EV or via train. | |||
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"I think it’s very funny how some people are desperate to find anything they can to criticise Burnham for, they must be very worried about him. It's more that people are very worried (with good reason) that their cost of living is about to go up with nothing to show for it. __ But on the subject of Air Miles Andy, yes it's hypocrisy to fly short distances whilst preaching about climate change. Especially the unnecessary one to Manchester which could very easily be undertaken in an EV or via train. " Yep, I was right. | |||
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"I think it’s very funny how some people are desperate to find anything they can to criticise Burnham for, they must be very worried about him. It's more that people are very worried (with good reason) that their cost of living is about to go up with nothing to show for it. __ But on the subject of Air Miles Andy, yes it's hypocrisy to fly short distances whilst preaching about climate change. Especially the unnecessary one to Manchester which could very easily be undertaken in an EV or via train. " 
New PM ... Same old crap. Not impressed so far and Wes streetin g? Seen him on TV today and not impressed at all. | |||
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"If Covid lockdowns taught us anything, it's that business can be done via computer and webcam. No need to fly anywhere. And personally, I think asking people to come to me for an in-person meeting is highly disrespectful of their time. And if the hosts are asking me to attend their meeting elsewhere in person, they are not respecting my time either." That works when you are not trying to build partnerships etc.. There is more to some meetings than simply talking. | |||
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"I think it’s very funny how some people are desperate to find anything they can to criticise Burnham for, they must be very worried about him." Ask the families of his 1197 excess deaths at Staffordshire hospital while he was health secretary. | |||
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"one rule for the many and one for the few. simple as that." Cameron May Johnson Truss Sunak Starmer All lied to the public, all binned, all on £115k pension. Will cost us £65/70M in pensions alone. Bodybag Burnham up next for his share. | |||
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"one rule for the many and one for the few. simple as that. Cameron May Johnson Truss Sunak Starmer All lied to the public, all binned, all on £115k pension. Will cost us £65/70M in pensions alone. Bodybag Burnham up next for his share. " The 115K a year is not a pension it is PDCA and they need to be subject to expense to claim their money back. If any ex PM employs staff or conducts other duties, events after leaving office that create expenses, they claim it back through the PDCA. | |||
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"I think it’s very funny how some people are desperate to find anything they can to criticise Burnham for, they must be very worried about him. Ask the families of his 1197 excess deaths at Staffordshire hospital while he was health secretary. " He didn’t become Health secretary until 2009, and launched the inquiry into Mid-Staffs. He was a junior minister in the DoH for about a year May 2005 - June 2006, though. | |||
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"That works when you are not trying to build partnerships etc.. There is more to some meetings than simply talking. " Yes, like listening for example. . Covid was an important test that demonstrated that the mould can be broken, because it had to. . Anyone insisting on a face-to-face business meeting with me instantly red flags me. If they want my business it can be negotiated in email. In writing. | |||
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"That works when you are not trying to build partnerships etc.. There is more to some meetings than simply talking. Yes, like listening for example. . Covid was an important test that demonstrated that the mould can be broken, because it had to. . Anyone insisting on a face-to-face business meeting with me instantly red flags me. If they want my business it can be negotiated in email. In writing." so the bottom line is how you do business, is exactly how everyone should? Negotiation via email tells me all I need to know | |||
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"That works when you are not trying to build partnerships etc.. There is more to some meetings than simply talking. Yes, like listening for example. . Covid was an important test that demonstrated that the mould can be broken, because it had to. . Anyone insisting on a face-to-face business meeting with me instantly red flags me. If they want my business it can be negotiated in email. In writing. so the bottom line is how you do business, is exactly how everyone should? Negotiation via email tells me all I need to know "Define "everyone". If you mean "those wanting my business", then yes, I define the terms of engagement. If you mean "the whole world" then obviously not. . What sort of comment is "Negotiation via email tells me all I need to know" meant to convey ? . We're not living in the 1860's where a person's word was their bond. Spoken words are fleeting at best, and the source of so much vendor / customer disagreement and later litigation (which is something which interests me greatly). The devil is in the detail and that's where written words hold parties to account, pre, during, or post contract. | |||
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"I think it’s very funny how some people are desperate to find anything they can to criticise Burnham for, they must be very worried about him. Ask the families of his 1197 excess deaths at Staffordshire hospital while he was health secretary. He didn’t become Health secretary until 2009, and launched the inquiry into Mid-Staffs. He was a junior minister in the DoH for about a year May 2005 - June 2006, though." Okay then.. tell us what makes him so wonderful then | |||
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"I think it’s very funny how some people are desperate to find anything they can to criticise Burnham for, they must be very worried about him. Ask the families of his 1197 excess deaths at Staffordshire hospital while he was health secretary. He didn’t become Health secretary until 2009, and launched the inquiry into Mid-Staffs. He was a junior minister in the DoH for about a year May 2005 - June 2006, though. Okay then.. tell us what makes him so wonderful then" I didn’t say he was, but you shouldn’t have to make stuff up to have a go at him about if he’s that bad. | |||
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