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"Interesting post. Would that mean the business using the AI paying the tax shortfall?" Well, yes. Businesses would be throwing millions on the scrapheap in pursuit of "selfish" profit so Government would have to pick up the bill for all the unemployed humans. In the absence of PAYE and NI they would have nothing to give. | |||
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"Sounds like the robot tax which has been discussed, and often linked with idea of universal basic income. If these technologies really do replace huge numbers of workers, and alternative jobs don't develop then it looks inevitable that some sort of economic restructuring will be needed." I do agree and like most technological advanced over the last 5 decades it is rapidly occurring at a pace that far outstrip humanity's ability to respond. We already see it. Even the Indian call centres, that only a couple of decades ago threw British folk out of work, are being replaced by AI. Teachers are now using AI to check if students have used AI to draft course work. The potential for a vast mass of humanity, 10s of millions, with no work, money or future would present a massive risk of social urest. I fear for the current and future generations unless something is done quickly. | |||
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"Interesting post. Would that mean the business using the AI paying the tax shortfall?" They would be saving a huge amount on wages so would seem fair. | |||
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"Interesting post. Would that mean the business using the AI paying the tax shortfall? They would be saving a huge amount on wages so would seem fair. " Can you explain the economics of this thinking? | |||
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" Can you explain the economics of this thinking?" ask grok or mythos .... you stand a chance of getting a correct answer rather than garbage you get from asking the last 45 years worth of the useless economist class that is thankfully being replaced by AI | |||
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" Can you explain the economics of this thinking? ask grok or mythos .... you stand a chance of getting a correct answer rather than garbage you get from asking the last 45 years worth of the useless economist class that is thankfully being replaced by AI" So you don't think companies are using AI so they can save money? | |||
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"In the past, if you wanted to make widgets, you bought a building, machines and employed workers who designed, manufactured, sold and distributed the widgets. This made it easy for the Government to have the factory pay corporation tax and the workers pay income tax and NI. In the near future the widgets will be designed, manufactured and distributed by AI devices. This is because they are cheaper to run than humans, more reliable and do not currently incur a tax commitment for their owner. PAYE (27%) and NI (16%) amount to 43% of government income. At present corporation tax only between 8% and 11%. So come the full AI revolution the Government will lose approximately half their income whilst their financial commitments will increase exponentially. It would seem logical that if AI replaces a taxable worker we should tax the AI. Or is there a better way? 🤔" Is this much different from other advances in technology? New machines are developed all the time to automate production. Think of a car factory and how it has changed with all the robots they have and have had for many years. All reduce the amount of workers required and I'm pretty sure many industries are very similar. | |||
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"Well I would assume that a company not paying wages is making even more profit than if they employed people, so would be paying more tax, pretty simple really" More likely that a company not paying wages would make about the same amount of profit, because they would be selling their product for less money, generally benefiting everybody. | |||
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"Well I would assume that a company not paying wages is making even more profit than if they employed people, so would be paying more tax, pretty simple really More likely that a company not paying wages would make about the same amount of profit, because they would be selling their product for less money, generally benefiting everybody." And if they did make more profit, they will already pay more in taxes because their profits are higher. | |||
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"Well I wood assume that a company not paying wages is making even more profit than if they employed people, so would be paying more tax, petty simple really " You are suggesting a tax on a capital asset and the productivity it can create. That would mean taxing every piece of time and effort saving technology ever developed. The idea that tech or a tool should be taxed in the same way as income tax because it improves productivity genuinely blows my mind! The people who actually think this is a good idea, question, is there anything that shouldn't be taxed? | |||
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"AI should make the cost of business less expensive and deliver more competitive prices to consumers. I see some serious issues with under grad degree courses, I’ve just prepared a series of lectures on living soil amendments in a few minutes, for free that would have taken days to prepare without AI. And the students could do it themselves. " We do have some serious reckoning to do when it comes to teaching in schools and universities. What we teach, how it is taught and how the students are evaluated, all have to change. | |||
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"Well I would assume that a company not paying wages is making even more profit than if they employed people, so would be paying more tax, pretty simple really More likely that a company not paying wages would make about the same amount of profit, because they would be selling their product for less money, generally benefiting everybody." You think so?  | |||
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"Well I would assume that a company not paying wages is making even more profit than if they employed people, so would be paying more tax, pretty simple really More likely that a company not paying wages would make about the same amount of profit, because they would be selling their product for less money, generally benefiting everybody. You think so? "I think the poster before Merlin is missing the point. If, in extremis, AI replaces every human job no human apart from, presumably, business owners will earn anything. Therefore it won't matter how cheap the "widgets" are no one will have the money to buy them. If AI replaces workers the workers need money to live so if there is not to be Civil War the govt will have to pay them support money. The only potential source of that is the businesses. | |||
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" Well I would assume that a company not paying wages is making even more profit than if they employed people, so would be paying more tax, pretty simple really" Only 8 to 11% of Government money comes from Corp Tax. The rates would have to be galactically increased to make up the shortfall and in addition Tax avoidance would need to be stamped out by draconian means. | |||
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"Well I would assume that a company not paying wages is making even more profit than if they employed people, so would be paying more tax, pretty simple really" "More likely that a company not paying wages would make about the same amount of profit, because they would be selling their product for less money, generally benefiting everybody." "You think so?" Yes. A single company that can replace its staff with AI can make a huge profit (and pay lots of tax on it). As soon as a second company does the same thing, those two will start to compete on price. It won't be long before there are several companies all using AI, and all selling their goods at low prices. Just look at the car industry. It used to employ thousands of people and make very expensive products. Now they all use robots and cars are better made and cheaper. None of the car companies is making massive profits. | |||
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"Well I would assume that a company not paying wages is making even more profit than if they employed people, so would be paying more tax, pretty simple really More likely that a company not paying wages would make about the same amount of profit, because they would be selling their product for less money, generally benefiting everybody. You think so?
I think the poster before Merlin is missing the point. If, in extremis, AI replaces every human job no human apart from, presumably, business owners will earn anything. Therefore it won't matter how cheap the "widgets" are no one will have the money to buy them.
If AI replaces workers the workers need money to live so if there is not to be Civil War the govt will have to pay them support money.
The only potential source of that is the businesses. "If that scenario ever occurred with AI replacing everyone except business owners then the business owners wouldn't make money either because they have no one left to sell to as no one has money to buy their products. | |||
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"Well I would assume that a company not paying wages is making even more profit than if they employed people, so would be paying more tax, pretty simple really More likely that a company not paying wages would make about the same amount of profit, because they would be selling their product for less money, generally benefiting everybody. You think so?
I think the poster before Merlin is missing the point. If, in extremis, AI replaces every human job no human apart from, presumably, business owners will earn anything. Therefore it won't matter how cheap the "widgets" are no one will have the money to buy them.
If AI replaces workers the workers need money to live so if there is not to be Civil War the govt will have to pay them support money.
The only potential source of that is the businesses.
If that scenario ever occurred with AI replacing everyone except business owners then the business owners wouldn't make money either because they have no one left to sell to as no one has money to buy their products. "Yoda says "Sell to each other they would" Yes but "extremis" is not likely to happen, civil unrest would occur long before then. | |||
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