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"Poll check forecast for Plymouth’s 19 wards has 13 reform 4 labour 2 green Have to wait til friday. " If this is this is the case then roll on Friday. | |||
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"We don't have any here this year locally I'd vote conservative in my parish he's been excellent for local issues and he's upset the apple cart of labour councilors." Reform won second home Newquay and took 25% of the vote. Green came second. Labour last | |||
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"Round here we've mainly got really well seasoned and effective Lib Dem councillors. They're not the most exciting humans out there, but they're effective administrators who turn up and do the job with difficult levels of funding at a local level, and I respect that." Here in Wales we're voting for members of the Senedd, so it really is an important vote. But I suspect that many people will vote based on who will get rid of the blanket 20mph speed limit, so that means either the Tories or Reform. For the rest, Labour have been in power for over a century, and I think most people believe that it's time for a change. I'd expect to see Plaid Cymru doing well, not because of a surge in nationalism, but because many won't vote Tory and if you're not a Reform supporter that leaves just Plaid as the only sensible option. | |||
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"I've seen a fair bit of "4 days to get Starmer out" (etc) tripe online. What a weird emotional angle for folk to hang their hopes on?" If you're the sort of person that's really disgusted with what Labour is doing right now, making sure that they get a good thumping in the local elections will almost certainly result in Starmer being pushed out by his own party. That probably seems like a good idea to them. But I agree, I've never understood the idea of selecting your vote based on who you want to lose, rather than who you'd like to win. | |||
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"I've seen a fair bit of "4 days to get Starmer out" (etc) tripe online. What a weird emotional angle for folk to hang their hopes on? If you're the sort of person that's really disgusted with what Labour is doing right now, making sure that they get a good thumping in the local elections will almost certainly result in Starmer being pushed out by his own party. That probably seems like a good idea to them. But I agree, I've never understood the idea of selecting your vote based on who you want to lose, rather than who you'd like to win." Northern Ireland voting is always about keeping out one or other main party and fuck all ever gets done because numties get elected so my advice is be careful who you use for your protest vote because it's your services that'll get fucked up. I haven't seen anything from reform that points towards the ability to run a country and unless I'm mistaken Farage is a lieing cunt. The UK seems to be run by social media in a downward spiral | |||
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"This site needs another identification Bi Straight TV Racist " One of those quotes has been so overused it’s now a joke on the person claiming it. | |||
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"This site needs another identification Bi Straight TV Racist " i have another one to add to the list... Pearl clutcher | |||
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"This site needs another identification Bi Straight TV Racist " The boy who cried Wolf. | |||
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"While it's tempting to vote as if it's a general election, when it comes to local elections these are the people who will be in charge of your local area so it's more about local issues that need solving or initiatives to improve the area. Looking at the party manifestos in our area Reform are following the national agenda, Greens are unrecognisable from the national agenda and everyone gets a fluffy kitten so they are lieing, Lib Dems are sitting on the fence, Labour and Conservatives are promising to fix things in their own ways. Only the Conservatives are actively campaigning though." It would be good if people understood local council structure. So when they are disgruntled about local matters they call for local resignations and not the top job. Have a look at what your councillor gets paid AND expenses. They need to achieve results for that salary. Unfortunately my council has the "family voting" scenario, so little change expected. | |||
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"We don't have any here this year locally I'd vote conservative in my parish he's been excellent for local issues and he's upset the apple cart of labour councilors. Reform won second home Newquay and took 25% of the vote. Green came second. Labour last " that surprised me as I'd have said conservative but I can't vote there I'm in Rotherham. | |||
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"In Scotland we have the SNP. They have been in power 19 years. They are promising the same things again today as they did years ago. They blame every failure on the Westminister government. Worst of all they want independence, without a clue how to do it run the Government afterwards Reform are a one trick pony but a lot of disgruntled voters will choose them as a protest party. Labour and the Cons are on the defensive and the Greens are impressive, if you like the idea i of higher taxes." Lol I doubt many here will be rich enough to have higher taxes. If you are drop me a dm  | |||
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"This site needs another identification Bi Straight TV Racist " | |||
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"Every incumbent party tends to get a bit of a mid cycle hammering? I don't know what the biggest swings have been historically in local elections.... Round here we've mainly got really well seasoned and effective Lib Dem councillors. They're not the most exciting humans out there, but they're effective administrators who turn up and do the job with difficult levels of funding at a local level, and I respect that. It's not like they have any bearing on national policy, despite some of the noises coming from the light blue corner. I've seen a fair bit of "4 days to get Starmer out" (etc) tripe online. What a weird emotional angle for folk to hang their hopes on? " Lib Dems were often the choice to register a protest vote but they now have competition from the greens and reform. It does seem a battle on who gets the most protest votes. Both labour and conservatives may be hoping that with extra choice it splits the protest voting and enables them to claim some unexpected wins. | |||
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"Lol I doubt many here will be rich enough to have higher taxes. If you are drop me a dm" In Scotland the higher rate kicks in at £43,663. There might be one or two people here that can claim that lofty amount. | |||
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"We dont have local elections here! If we did i would vote for green! " For policy, tactically or in protest? Why, specifically, for your area? | |||
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"We dont have local elections here! If we did i would vote for green! For policy, tactically or in protest? Why, specifically, for your area?" Because our local fella Steve does so much locally! | |||
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"We dont have local elections here! If we did i would vote for green! For policy, tactically or in protest? Why, specifically, for your area? Because our local fella Steve does so much locally! " Exactly why you should be voting for him  | |||
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"Lol I doubt many here will be rich enough to have higher taxes. If you are drop me a dm In Scotland the higher rate kicks in at £43,663. There might be one or two people here that can claim that lofty amount." But the greens aren't talking about taxing those people. Just the mega rich so don't worry you will be safe. | |||
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"Lol I doubt many here will be rich enough to have higher taxes. If you are drop me a dm In Scotland the higher rate kicks in at £43,663. There might be one or two people here that can claim that lofty amount. But the greens aren't talking about taxing those people. Just the mega rich so don't worry you will be safe." If you take every penny from every billionaire in the UK it would cover government spending for.......Wait for it.......around 6 months. 
Then what?  | |||
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"We dont have local elections here! If we did i would vote for green! For policy, tactically or in protest? Why, specifically, for your area? Because our local fella Steve does so much locally! Exactly why you should be voting for him "Indeed. Wouldn't dream of voting Tory in a GE, but the County Councillor is actually pretty good, so I'm considering it. | |||
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"Lol I doubt many here will be rich enough to have higher taxes. If you are drop me a dm In Scotland the higher rate kicks in at £43,663. There might be one or two people here that can claim that lofty amount. But the greens aren't talking about taxing those people. Just the mega rich so don't worry you will be safe. If you take every penny from every billionaire in the UK it would cover government spending for.......Wait for it.......around 6 months.
Then what? "770 billion? | |||
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" If you take every penny from every billionaire in the UK it would cover government spending for.......Wait for it.......around 6 months.
Then what? "There was a story about a goose and golden eggs... | |||
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"We dont have local elections here! If we did i would vote for green! For policy, tactically or in protest? Why, specifically, for your area? Because our local fella Steve does so much locally! Exactly why you should be voting for him
Indeed. Wouldn't dream of voting Tory in a GE, but the County Councillor is actually pretty good, so I'm considering it."All perfectly sums up the difference between local & national politics. Anyway folks, irrespective of your views and how much mainstream figures may be pissing us off at the moment, remember this - people are still killing each other in other parts of the world to try to obtain a fraction of what we take for granted. Don't like any of the candidates ? Then go to the polling station and spoil your paper, that way your opinion still gets registered | |||
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"Lol I doubt many here will be rich enough to have higher taxes. If you are drop me a dm In Scotland the higher rate kicks in at £43,663. There might be one or two people here that can claim that lofty amount. But the greens aren't talking about taxing those people. Just the mega rich so don't worry you will be safe. If you take every penny from every billionaire in the UK it would cover government spending for.......Wait for it.......around 6 months.
Then what?
770 billion?"The scroungers would eat it up in no time | |||
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"Latest election predictions by Pollcheck Labour. -1200 Tory. - 562 Green. +475 Reform. +1200. " Starmer’s response will be to go on another world tour and give Macron a man hug. | |||
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"Latest election predictions by Pollcheck Labour. -1200 Tory. - 562 Green. +475 Reform. +1200" If that's accurate it means that Reform are taking roughly equal numbers of votes from the Tories and Labour. It would mean that those Labour heartlands aren't as safe as some thought they were. | |||
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"According to John Curtice there is a strong correlation between the areas who voted for Brexit & those voting for Reform councillors. No surprise there then. People still falling for the same BS 10 years later. it’s incredible how Reform manage to sell their snake oil to people in the more deprived areas of the country. If you just scratch under the populist veneer, it’s abundantly clear that these people will be worse off under a Reform government should it happen. Victorian workhouses with fewer workers rights & lower wages await these goons whilst the rich get richer. Brexit John on his Union Jack emblazoned Motability scooter will probably be forced into factory work hitting a button with his forehead. This is 100% on labour who have appeared to abandon this demographic. Any new Labour leader, considering there is no notable talent in the party, will need to perform some kind of miracle to get these people back onside at the moment. Turnout is typically low though, so I would equally be wary of labelling these results as the ‘will of the people’ just yet though…" We only have reform because of Tory and Labour failure. Nowhere else to look Tory Brexit turned out shit Labour have attacked pensioners, farmers, disabled, workers and savers Karma delivered. | |||
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"Latest election predictions by Pollcheck Labour. -1200 Tory. - 562 Green. +475 Reform. +1200. " Our starting point of local council seat numbers held was this: Labour 5830 Conservative and Unionist 4178 Liberal Democrat 3178 Independent 2181 Reform UK 987 Green Party Eng/Wales 915 SNP 413 Plaid Cymru 201 Sinn Fein 144 Vacant seats 128 Democratic Unionist Party DUP 120 Etc etc I'd reckon that both Conservative and Labour seats are going to be bled out heavily to rival parties. Obviously, Reform are going to get a good chunk, but I guess the Lib Dems and Greens will also benefit in Tory heartlands? | |||
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"According to John Curtice there is a strong correlation between the areas who voted for Brexit & those voting for Reform councillors. No surprise there then. People still falling for the same BS 10 years later. it’s incredible how Reform manage to sell their snake oil to people in the more deprived areas of the country. If you just scratch under the populist veneer, it’s abundantly clear that these people will be worse off under a Reform government should it happen. Victorian workhouses with fewer workers rights & lower wages await these goons whilst the rich get richer. Brexit John on his Union Jack emblazoned Motability scooter will probably be forced into factory work hitting a button with his forehead. This is 100% on labour who have appeared to abandon this demographic. Any new Labour leader, considering there is no notable talent in the party, will need to perform some kind of miracle to get these people back onside at the moment. Turnout is typically low though, so I would equally be wary of labelling these results as the ‘will of the people’ just yet though…" Remarkable how Leftists who constantly claim to be more intelligent than everyone else seem to have only one gear when dealing with a changing environment. “Call them thick racists, spout a lot of fantasy fear mongering”. At some point if they are as clever as they keep telling everyone, you think they’d look in the mirror and think to themselves “this just isn’t working maybe we need to actually listen for a change and work out what’s going on and what people want”. But keep up the good work. This kind of attitude is a major contributor to Reform’s success. | |||
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"According to John Curtice there is a strong correlation between the areas who voted for Brexit & those voting for Reform councillors. No surprise there then. People still falling for the same BS 10 years later. it’s incredible how Reform manage to sell their snake oil to people in the more deprived areas of the country. If you just scratch under the populist veneer, it’s abundantly clear that these people will be worse off under a Reform government should it happen. Victorian workhouses with fewer workers rights & lower wages await these goons whilst the rich get richer. Brexit John on his Union Jack emblazoned Motability scooter will probably be forced into factory work hitting a button with his forehead. This is 100% on labour who have appeared to abandon this demographic. Any new Labour leader, considering there is no notable talent in the party, will need to perform some kind of miracle to get these people back onside at the moment. Turnout is typically low though, so I would equally be wary of labelling these results as the ‘will of the people’ just yet though… Remarkable how Leftists who constantly claim to be more intelligent than everyone else seem to have only one gear when dealing with a changing environment. “Call them thick racists, spout a lot of fantasy fear mongering”. At some point if they are as clever as they keep telling everyone, you think they’d look in the mirror and think to themselves “this just isn’t working maybe we need to actually listen for a change and work out what’s going on and what people want”. But keep up the good work. This kind of attitude is a major contributor to Reform’s success." ‘Leftists’. Plenty of pro European Tories out there my friend…you may have noticed the in house fighting over the last 40 years or so… | |||
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"It boggles my mind that people have voted for a Trump and Putin loving grifter who wants to dismantle the NHS and make you poorer, just because they think Reform will stop dingys arriving. In the local elections. 🤦♂️" Actually, in local elections, people are not voting for any of that. Not that Reform are necessarily competent, but that's not what local elections achieve. Ironically, the reason that Reform is getting votes is that people think like you: local elections have some bearing on national issues. Although some understand this and simply do it to send a message. The thing with protest voting, though, is that people are not voting FOR something (Farage) so much as AGAINST something (Labour/established parties/immigration). | |||
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"It boggles my mind that people have voted for a Trump and Putin loving grifter who wants to dismantle the NHS and make you poorer, just because they think Reform will stop dingys arriving. In the local elections. Can't wait for the further Americanisation of British politics and the rise of authoritarianism and fascism 🤦♂️" The circa 7% of the NHS which is privatised was done so by Labour.... Insinuating that Reform are fascists is absolutely moronic, particularly given that it's VE day today, remembering when we fought real fascists. Given that Labour attempted to cancel elections, want to abolish jury trials and have imprisoned people with sentences of several years for crimes such as putting stickers on a lamp post or posting a single misjudged tweet, I'd suggest that Labour are the authoritarian ones. I'm not particularly pro Reform, but the ridiculous language being thrown around is only increasing the divisions in this country. If anything,The Greens are probably the most racist party on the ballot with members coming out with language thats far, far more hateful than anything that even the National Front come out with these days. | |||
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"Thank goodness the Green threat turned out to be a damp squib, those namby pambys are about as much use as the lib dems, oh shite that only leaves Nige fook we are doomed. Where has Bojo gone with every day that passes he is beginning to look more like a hero at least he didn't make any pretense about being a twat." Greens well meaning environmental campaigning has all been derailed by their wider political stance. | |||
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"According to John Curtice there is a strong correlation between the areas who voted for Brexit & those voting for Reform councillors. No surprise there then. People still falling for the same BS 10 years later. it’s incredible how Reform manage to sell their snake oil to people in the more deprived areas of the country. If you just scratch under the populist veneer, it’s abundantly clear that these people will be worse off under a Reform government should it happen. Victorian workhouses with fewer workers rights & lower wages await these goons whilst the rich get richer. Brexit John on his Union Jack emblazoned Motability scooter will probably be forced into factory work hitting a button with his forehead. This is 100% on labour who have appeared to abandon this demographic. Any new Labour leader, considering there is no notable talent in the party, will need to perform some kind of miracle to get these people back onside at the moment. Turnout is typically low though, so I would equally be wary of labelling these results as the ‘will of the people’ just yet though…" Living in a democracy is a tough place to be when “the will of the people” can't / wont be accepted. | |||
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"People will still vote for Labour no matter what they do. " You could say exactly the same about the Tories tbf. | |||
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" The circa 7% of the NHS which is privatised was done so by Labour.... Insinuating that Reform are fascists is absolutely moronic, particularly given that it's VE day today, remembering when we fought real fascists. Given that Labour attempted to cancel elections, want to abolish jury trials and have imprisoned people with sentences of several years for crimes such as putting stickers on a lamp post or posting a single misjudged tweet, I'd suggest that Labour are the authoritarian ones. I'm not particularly pro Reform, but the ridiculous language being thrown around is only increasing the divisions in this country. If anything,The Greens are probably the most racist party on the ballot with members coming out with language thats far, far more hateful than anything that even the National Front come out with these days. " Farage has said he supports the privatisation of the NHS. Farage said of Putin, he "admired him as a political operator, because he’s managed to take control of running Russia.” How does does Putin control Russia? Is it freedom and democracy? Is Farage's other hero, Trump in charge of a more or less authoritarian government? Here's the definition of fascism: 'Fascism is characterized by a dictatorial leader, centralized autocracy, militarism, forcible suppression of opposition, belief in a natural social hierarchy, subordination of individual interests for the perceived interest of the nation or race, and strong regimentation of society and the economy. Opposed to communism, democracy, liberalism, pluralism, and socialism, fascism is at the far right of the traditional left–right spectrum.' If you can't see that Reform are leaning in that direction with a leader that supports those in power who already demonstrate these traits, then I've got nothing else to say to you, other than good luck. | |||
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" The circa 7% of the NHS which is privatised was done so by Labour.... Insinuating that Reform are fascists is absolutely moronic, particularly given that it's VE day today, remembering when we fought real fascists. Given that Labour attempted to cancel elections, want to abolish jury trials and have imprisoned people with sentences of several years for crimes such as putting stickers on a lamp post or posting a single misjudged tweet, I'd suggest that Labour are the authoritarian ones. I'm not particularly pro Reform, but the ridiculous language being thrown around is only increasing the divisions in this country. If anything,The Greens are probably the most racist party on the ballot with members coming out with language thats far, far more hateful than anything that even the National Front come out with these days. Farage has said he supports the privatisation of the NHS. Farage said of Putin, he "admired him as a political operator, because he’s managed to take control of running Russia.” How does does Putin control Russia? Is it freedom and democracy? Is Farage's other hero, Trump in charge of a more or less authoritarian government? Here's the definition of fascism: 'Fascism is characterized by a dictatorial leader, centralized autocracy, militarism, forcible suppression of opposition, belief in a natural social hierarchy, subordination of individual interests for the perceived interest of the nation or race, and strong regimentation of society and the economy. Opposed to communism, democracy, liberalism, pluralism, and socialism, fascism is at the far right of the traditional left–right spectrum.' If you can't see that Reform are leaning in that direction with a leader that supports those in power who already demonstrate these traits, then I've got nothing else to say to you, other than good luck." It is so easy to go down a rabbit hole on such things. To admire a leaders abilities to lead is not the same as advocating their policies. | |||
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".It is so easy to go down a rabbit hole on such things. To admire a leaders abilities to lead is not the same as advocating their policies. " You don't find it at all worrying that the leader of Reform admires authoritarian governments? You've seen Farage on stage in America gushing over Trump and what he's done for them? And more specifically, Farage praised Putin for how he's controlling Russia. As a thought experiment, if the Green party leader was on stage in Palestine at a Hamas run political event praising the work they were doing, and it later turned out that some of his closest political supporters were taking bribes from Iran, would you also say he'd just be 'admiring their leaders abilities, not advocating for their policies' and that 'we shouldn't go down a rabbit hole on such things'? | |||
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".It is so easy to go down a rabbit hole on such things. To admire a leaders abilities to lead is not the same as advocating their policies. You don't find it at all worrying that the leader of Reform admires authoritarian governments? You've seen Farage on stage in America gushing over Trump and what he's done for them? And more specifically, Farage praised Putin for how he's controlling Russia. As a thought experiment, if the Green party leader was on stage in Palestine at a Hamas run political event praising the work they were doing, and it later turned out that some of his closest political supporters were taking bribes from Iran, would you also say he'd just be 'admiring their leaders abilities, not advocating for their policies' and that 'we shouldn't go down a rabbit hole on such things'?" Do you feel that spending twenty years calling Farage a fascist is working? | |||
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".It is so easy to go down a rabbit hole on such things. To admire a leaders abilities to lead is not the same as advocating their policies. You don't find it at all worrying that the leader of Reform admires authoritarian governments? You've seen Farage on stage in America gushing over Trump and what he's done for them? And more specifically, Farage praised Putin for how he's controlling Russia. As a thought experiment, if the Green party leader was on stage in Palestine at a Hamas run political event praising the work they were doing, and it later turned out that some of his closest political supporters were taking bribes from Iran, would you also say he'd just be 'admiring their leaders abilities, not advocating for their policies' and that 'we shouldn't go down a rabbit hole on such things'?" Which world leader do admire for their ability to lead? | |||
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" Do you feel that spending twenty years calling Farage a fascist is working?" Pointing out that Farage has certain fascistic traits has not worked, no. Doesn't mean it's inaccurate though. Instead, it just turns out that a certain amount of the British population are okay with fascistic traits. Just like the Americans. | |||
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"Which world leader do admire for their ability to lead? " There's a few that have done a decent job. But do you know who won't be on that list? Anyone that's an authoritarian or a fascist. | |||
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"Which world leader do admire for their ability to lead? There's a few that have done a decent job. But do you know who won't be on that list? Anyone that's an authoritarian or a fascist." Can you give some actual names? | |||
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" Can you give some actual names?" Pick anyone you like that's not an authoritarian, dictator or a fascist. Doesn't matter if they're shit at their job. They're better than Farage's list. In fact, just for you, I googled 'a prime minister in Europe and randomly chose Netherlands and got Rob Jetten. Turns out he seems like an okay guy. Hasn't murdered any journalists or opposition leaders as far away I'm aware. Also not built concentration camps. So I'll go with him as an example. | |||
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" Can you give some actual names? Pick anyone you like that's not an authoritarian, dictator or a fascist. Doesn't matter if they're shit at their job. They're better than Farage's list. In fact, just for you, I googled 'a prime minister in Europe and randomly chose Netherlands and got Rob Jetten. Turns out he seems like an okay guy. Hasn't murdered any journalists or opposition leaders as far away I'm aware. Also not built concentration camps. So I'll go with him as an example. " You said that "There's a few that have done a decent job." And yet when asked to give a name, you have to Google search and throw in a random name? And FYI, Rob Jetten formed the government making a coalition with PVV, which is basically Reform of Netherlands. | |||
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" Can you give some actual names? Pick anyone you like that's not an authoritarian, dictator or a fascist. Doesn't matter if they're shit at their job. They're better than Farage's list. In fact, just for you, I googled 'a prime minister in Europe and randomly chose Netherlands and got Rob Jetten. Turns out he seems like an okay guy. Hasn't murdered any journalists or opposition leaders as far away I'm aware. Also not built concentration camps. So I'll go with him as an example. You said that "There's a few that have done a decent job." And yet when asked to give a name, you have to Google search and throw in a random name? And FYI, Rob Jetten formed the government making a coalition with PVV, which is basically Reform of Netherlands." I'm demonstrating how easy it is to pick someone fairly randomly that's a better leader than Putin or Trump. And I'm not sure his party is in a coalition with PVV. As far as I can tell, he's formed a coalition with the CVA and the VVD. | |||
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"It boggles my mind that people have voted for a Trump and Putin loving grifter who wants to dismantle the NHS and make you poorer, just because they think Reform will stop dingys arriving. In the local elections. Can't wait for the further Americanisation of British politics and the rise of authoritarianism and fascism 🤦♂️ The circa 7% of the NHS which is privatised was done so by Labour.... Insinuating that Reform are fascists is absolutely moronic, particularly given that it's VE day today, remembering when we fought real fascists. Given that Labour attempted to cancel elections, want to abolish jury trials and have imprisoned people with sentences of several years for crimes such as putting stickers on a lamp post or posting a single misjudged tweet, I'd suggest that Labour are the authoritarian ones. I'm not particularly pro Reform, but the ridiculous language being thrown around is only increasing the divisions in this country. If anything,The Greens are probably the most racist party on the ballot with members coming out with language thats far, far more hateful than anything that even the National Front come out with these days. " Tories gave away vast parts of the NHS under Cameron to private control. Virgin in Bath for instance. Ve day is nonsense when people like you are ignoring the home grown fascists. Farage and such are anti semitic, he himself has used the hateful stereotypes. Their politics is that of Mussolini, corporatism. They have rotted rights and given hate a huge voice again. Greens are not bad, if you think that you are owned by Farage mob of ex pats and fake patriots in Dubai. | |||
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" Fair enough, and so we see! Is it our political leanings, or style of banter that you find intimidating enough to exercise that option?" Visiting someone's swinging profile for a point to make in a political discussion is enough to put us off, ta. I didn't think it was funny enough to be classed as banter, and I've no idea of your political leanings. Just smelt a bit like the behaviour of an angry person on Facebook though. Ew. | |||
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"It boggles my mind that people have voted for a Trump and Putin loving grifter who wants to dismantle the NHS and make you poorer, just because they think Reform will stop dingys arriving. In the local elections. Can't wait for the further Americanisation of British politics and the rise of authoritarianism and fascism 🤦♂️ The circa 7% of the NHS which is privatised was done so by Labour.... Insinuating that Reform are fascists is absolutely moronic, particularly given that it's VE day today, remembering when we fought real fascists. Given that Labour attempted to cancel elections, want to abolish jury trials and have imprisoned people with sentences of several years for crimes such as putting stickers on a lamp post or posting a single misjudged tweet, I'd suggest that Labour are the authoritarian ones. I'm not particularly pro Reform, but the ridiculous language being thrown around is only increasing the divisions in this country. If anything,The Greens are probably the most racist party on the ballot with members coming out with language thats far, far more hateful than anything that even the National Front come out with these days. Tories gave away vast parts of the NHS under Cameron to private control. Virgin in Bath for instance. Ve day is nonsense when people like you are ignoring the home grown fascists. Farage and such are anti semitic, he himself has used the hateful stereotypes. Their politics is that of Mussolini, corporatism. They have rotted rights and given hate a huge voice again. Greens are not bad, if you think that you are owned by Farage mob of ex pats and fake patriots in Dubai. " didn't blair start privatisation of the nhs and wasnt it him who saddled it with loads of private debt? | |||
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"It boggles my mind that people have voted for a Trump and Putin loving grifter who wants to dismantle the NHS and make you poorer, just because they think Reform will stop dingys arriving. In the local elections. Can't wait for the further Americanisation of British politics and the rise of authoritarianism and fascism 🤦♂️ The circa 7% of the NHS which is privatised was done so by Labour.... Insinuating that Reform are fascists is absolutely moronic, particularly given that it's VE day today, remembering when we fought real fascists. Given that Labour attempted to cancel elections, want to abolish jury trials and have imprisoned people with sentences of several years for crimes such as putting stickers on a lamp post or posting a single misjudged tweet, I'd suggest that Labour are the authoritarian ones. I'm not particularly pro Reform, but the ridiculous language being thrown around is only increasing the divisions in this country. If anything,The Greens are probably the most racist party on the ballot with members coming out with language thats far, far more hateful than anything that even the National Front come out with these days. Tories gave away vast parts of the NHS under Cameron to private control. Virgin in Bath for instance. Ve day is nonsense when people like you are ignoring the home grown fascists. Farage and such are anti semitic, he himself has used the hateful stereotypes. Their politics is that of Mussolini, corporatism. They have rotted rights and given hate a huge voice again. Greens are not bad, if you think that you are owned by Farage mob of ex pats and fake patriots in Dubai. " Greens aren't bad? 
Haven't you seen the recent arrests of their party candidates? | |||
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"didn't blair start privatisation of the nhs and wasnt it him who saddled it with loads of private debt? " PFI in the NHS started under John Major, but Blair certainly ran with it… | |||
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"didn't blair start privatisation of the nhs and wasnt it him who saddled it with loads of private debt? PFI in the NHS started under John Major, but Blair certainly ran with it…" It doesn't really matter who started privatising the NHS. What's important is that we don't vote for people to enthusiastically privatise it further. | |||
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"didn't blair start privatisation of the nhs and wasnt it him who saddled it with loads of private debt? PFI in the NHS started under John Major, but Blair certainly ran with it…" One £80bn PFI contract delivered £13bn investment for the nhs. The tories binned nurses training bursaries, both Labour and tories have charged usury interest on medical student loans when the base rate was less than half that charged. Both Labour and tories have poorly regulated food, ultra processed food and drinks and enabled accelerating obesity and poor health …while finger pointing that privatisation is bad | |||
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"didn't blair start privatisation of the nhs and wasnt it him who saddled it with loads of private debt? PFI in the NHS started under John Major, but Blair certainly ran with it… It doesn't really matter who started privatising the NHS. What's important is that we don't vote for people to enthusiastically privatise it further." Most other European Countries have a part privatised health service. Why should we be any different? | |||
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"Most other European Countries have a part privatised health service. Why should we be any different? " The differences between systems are a discussion for a other time. But at least you're honest, you're in favour of further privatising the NHS. If only all Reform voters looked at the rest of their policies. | |||
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"Most other European Countries have a part privatised health service. Why should we be any different? The differences between systems are a discussion for a other time. " They have to be discussed here. You are running off on the idea that privatisation is bad. But if most other countries have private health service, shouldn't we look at the idea, especially if the outcomes are better for the cost? | |||
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"Most other European Countries have a part privatised health service. Why should we be any different? The differences between systems are a discussion for a other time. They have to be discussed here. You are running off on the idea that privatisation is bad. But if most other countries have private health service, shouldn't we look at the idea, especially if the outcomes are better for the cost?" Personally I’d prefer dealing with the causes Poor health / obesity / alcoholism / smoking diseases 25% of nhs budget is spent treating these alone, add another reported £20bn on malnutrition - poor quality sugar laden processed foods and low quality food stores put in poorer income areas | |||
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"didn't blair start privatisation of the nhs and wasnt it him who saddled it with loads of private debt? PFI in the NHS started under John Major, but Blair certainly ran with it… It doesn't really matter who started privatising the NHS. What's important is that we don't vote for people to enthusiastically privatise it further." I think the idea of not privatising the NHS is probably one of the most misguided, due to the evidence that the NHS model is no longer fit for purpose being a living example over many, many years. | |||
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"Most other European Countries have a part privatised health service. Why should we be any different? The differences between systems are a discussion for a other time. They have to be discussed here. You are running off on the idea that privatisation is bad. But if most other countries have private health service, shouldn't we look at the idea, especially if the outcomes are better for the cost? Personally I’d prefer dealing with the causes Poor health / obesity / alcoholism / smoking diseases 25% of nhs budget is spent treating these alone, add another reported £20bn on malnutrition - poor quality sugar laden processed foods and low quality food stores put in poorer income areas " Yes, in an ideal world. But I am not sure how exactly we can do that. My neighbours are a family of two. It shocks me how many sugary drinks cans are in the green boxes during their bin collection days. And yes, they smoke too. | |||
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"They have to be discussed here. You are running off on the idea that privatisation is bad. But if most other countries have private health service, shouldn't we look at the idea, especially if the outcomes are better for the cost?" It doesn't matter if the majority of countries have a private health service. What matters is the accessibility and the quality of the service they provide. It's a complicated and nuanced debate, but none of these decisions should be in the hands of a far-right party that keeps changing its mind on whether the NHS should be free or not. If only more people were aware of Reform's impossible to pin down plans for the NHS. | |||
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"They have to be discussed here. You are running off on the idea that privatisation is bad. But if most other countries have private health service, shouldn't we look at the idea, especially if the outcomes are better for the cost? It doesn't matter if the majority of countries have a private health service. What matters is the accessibility and the quality of the service they provide. " Are you saying that accessibility and quality of service in the other countries are poorer than that of UK? | |||
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"Are you saying that accessibility and quality of service in the other countries are poorer than that of UK? " Yes, with regards accessibility in particular. | |||
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"Are you saying that accessibility and quality of service in the other countries are poorer than that of UK? Yes, with regards accessibility in particular." There have been some great threads on here on exactly this topic over the past couple of months. Going over outcomes, accessibility and satisfaction in countries like the Netherlands, Switzerland, Germany and Singapore. For the record, absolutely nobody here wants a broken, US-style system. | |||
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"Are you saying that accessibility and quality of service in the other countries are poorer than that of UK? Yes, with regards accessibility in particular. There have been some great threads on here on exactly this topic over the past couple of months. Going over outcomes, accessibility and satisfaction in countries like the Netherlands, Switzerland, Germany and Singapore. For the record, absolutely nobody here wants a broken, US-style system." That’s odd, because in the US nobody wants the NHS either. | |||
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"Are you saying that accessibility and quality of service in the other countries are poorer than that of UK? Yes, with regards accessibility in particular. There have been some great threads on here on exactly this topic over the past couple of months. Going over outcomes, accessibility and satisfaction in countries like the Netherlands, Switzerland, Germany and Singapore. For the record, absolutely nobody here wants a broken, US-style system. That’s odd, because in the US nobody wants the NHS either." Nobody who can afford private medical insurance, a corrupt system designed to keep medical bills as high as possible. | |||
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" That’s odd, because in the US nobody wants the NHS either." 😂🤣 Good one. Yeah, in a country where medical debts are the number cause of bankruptcy, no one would like a system like the NHS. Honestly, some people are in a world so divorced from reality, they might as well be a separate dimension 🤦♂️ | |||
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"Most other European Countries have a part privatised health service. Why should we be any different? The differences between systems are a discussion for a other time. They have to be discussed here. You are running off on the idea that privatisation is bad. But if most other countries have private health service, shouldn't we look at the idea, especially if the outcomes are better for the cost?" If these other countries health services have good outcomes and are available to all then why not look at them to try and learn. Not every health service is a US style | |||
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"Labour have so far lost 60% of the seats they had. How on earth can Starmer stay on ? " In which case I'm surprised I haven't been hearing about it all day... | |||
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"Labour have so far lost 60% of the seats they had. How on earth can Starmer stay on ? " I can see how he would stay on - who in their right mind would want to be leader of the Labour Party now? It is on a death spiral and why would any ambitious politician want to be associated with that? Better to let it crash and then pick up the pieces. | |||
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"Labour have so far lost 60% of the seats they had. How on earth can Starmer stay on ? I can see how he would stay on - who in their right mind would want to be leader of the Labour Party now? It is on a death spiral and why would any ambitious politician want to be associated with that? Better to let it crash and then pick up the pieces." Agreed, however I expect the labour fringe to try and seize the vacuum as a last ditch chance to influence. | |||
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"Labour have so far lost 60% of the seats they had. How on earth can Starmer stay on ? I live in Wales the scale of Labour loss here is difficult to calculate with more seats available but 9/96 is a disaster for the party, a man with any sense of decency would resign " | |||
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"There is actually a weird anomaly going on with who voted for who in what areas… in places that voted for Brexit… reform have basically done really well…. Taken of both labour and the conservatives In places that voted remain, reform have basically not done as well… and those labour voters fled for pro eu parties, plaid in Wales, snp in Scotland, Greens and Lib Dem’s in England " It’s not been a Brexit / immigration following that had led to this disaster for Labour. In 22 months they have destroyed themselves with their actions and policies. | |||
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"There is actually a weird anomaly going on with who voted for who in what areas… in places that voted for Brexit… reform have basically done really well…. Taken of both labour and the conservatives In places that voted remain, reform have basically not done as well… and those labour voters fled for pro eu parties, plaid in Wales, snp in Scotland, Greens and Lib Dem’s in England " I think there is far more nuance than that. The split isn’t Brexit/remain. It is those who have done well from global integration and those who haven’t. The Brexit split is a symptom not the reason. The reason is deeper and that is what has been missed by all the main political parties for the last decade. This EU thing is a complete red herring. | |||
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"He seems oblivious to what’s just happened, now Starmer has appointed Gordon Brown and Harriet Harman as advisers after the election losses. 20 odd MPs reportedly saying he should go by the end of this year. " You can’t make it up. The guy who was chancellor for the entire decade before the financial crash and then the PM when it hit the rocks. The guy who was culpable for everything that lead to that disaster in the UK. Jeez. | |||
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" 4. Labour is leeching votes to everyone, everywhere In the North and Midlands, Labour lost heavily to Reform among culturally conservative and economically pessimistic voters. In metropolitan and university-heavy areas, Labour bled support to the Greens, and, in some areas, to pro-Gaza independents. The Liberal Democrats also continued to nibble away at Labour in affluent Remain-oriented suburbs and southern commuter territory. The most significant defeats, in terms of a general election, came with defeat to Reform in strongholds like Hartlepool, Tameside, and Redditch. 5. Labour is split on whether the Greens or Reform present the bigger threat The data emerging from ward-level analysis suggests Labour is simultaneously losing its older patriotic working-class bloc and parts of its younger progressive metropolitan coalition. That is the nightmare scenario for governing parties because the electoral remedies for each loss often contradict each other politically. Many MPs want to move left, while Red Wall MPs and those in the Blue Labour camp caution against abandoning Shabana Mahmood’s migration reforms, which are backed by 70 per cent of Labour’s own voters, but a minority of its MPs. John Curtice, the veteran psephologist, calculated that Labour is losing far more votes directly to the Greens than to Reform, and that this had also helped Reform win seats where Labour’s vote was eroded. In the battle for the Croydon mayoralty the Tories clung on by just one percentage point over Labour’s Rowenna Davis, who fought a brilliant individual campaign, because the Greens seized nearly 17 per cent of the vote, five points more than Reform. Left-wingers seized on this as evidence that the party should swing left. But politics is about seats, not votes, and Reform is demonstrably the bigger threat to form a government than the Greens. " As I said in the other thread on Reform, Labour is struck between their traditional working class voters who abandoned them for Reform and the upper middle class socials who abandoned them for the Greens. It looks like they have to make a choice. Shifting their policies to win back Green votes will result in higher number of votes compared to attempting to get back Reform voters, but getting back Reform voters will give them more number of seats. | |||
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"There is an article on spectator titled "The most significant local elections for a generation" Pretty long one with so many points. These two points are interesting, from a Labour perspective: 4. Labour is leeching votes to everyone, everywhere In the North and Midlands, Labour lost heavily to Reform among culturally conservative and economically pessimistic voters. In metropolitan and university-heavy areas, Labour bled support to the Greens, and, in some areas, to pro-Gaza independents. The Liberal Democrats also continued to nibble away at Labour in affluent Remain-oriented suburbs and southern commuter territory. The most significant defeats, in terms of a general election, came with defeat to Reform in strongholds like Hartlepool, Tameside, and Redditch. 5. Labour is split on whether the Greens or Reform present the bigger threat The data emerging from ward-level analysis suggests Labour is simultaneously losing its older patriotic working-class bloc and parts of its younger progressive metropolitan coalition. That is the nightmare scenario for governing parties because the electoral remedies for each loss often contradict each other politically. Many MPs want to move left, while Red Wall MPs and those in the Blue Labour camp caution against abandoning Shabana Mahmood’s migration reforms, which are backed by 70 per cent of Labour’s own voters, but a minority of its MPs. John Curtice, the veteran psephologist, calculated that Labour is losing far more votes directly to the Greens than to Reform, and that this had also helped Reform win seats where Labour’s vote was eroded. In the battle for the Croydon mayoralty the Tories clung on by just one percentage point over Labour’s Rowenna Davis, who fought a brilliant individual campaign, because the Greens seized nearly 17 per cent of the vote, five points more than Reform. Left-wingers seized on this as evidence that the party should swing left. But politics is about seats, not votes, and Reform is demonstrably the bigger threat to form a government than the Greens. As I said in the other thread on Reform, Labour is struck between their traditional working class voters who abandoned them for Reform and the upper middle class socials who abandoned them for the Greens. It looks like they have to make a choice. Shifting their policies to win back Green votes will result in higher number of votes compared to attempting to get back Reform voters, but getting back Reform voters will give them more number of seats." I get all the analysis but the truth is Labour have turned on the public with tax rises, picked on certain groups - pensioners, farmers, disabled and had to U turn on those policies. They’ve done nothing for the economy or businesses, they’ve put up business rates, brought in more laws, created an increase in unemployment. 15 policy u turns, housing delivery at 12 year low, social housing negative, more small boats, one in one out never happened. Debt costs are up, so is unemployment, poverty and homelessness. They’ve been chatting shit for two years and people have had enough. | |||
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" As I said in the other thread on Reform, Labour is struck between their traditional working class voters who abandoned them for Reform and the upper middle class socials who abandoned them for the Greens. It looks like they have to make a choice. Shifting their policies to win back Green votes will result in higher number of votes compared to attempting to get back Reform voters, but getting back Reform voters will give them more number of seats. I get all the analysis but the truth is Labour have turned on the public with tax rises, picked on certain groups - pensioners, farmers, disabled and had to U turn on those policies. They’ve done nothing for the economy or businesses, they’ve put up business rates, brought in more laws, created an increase in unemployment. 15 policy u turns, housing delivery at 12 year low, social housing negative, more small boats, one in one out never happened. Debt costs are up, so is unemployment, poverty and homelessness. They’ve been chatting shit for two years and people have had enough. " I agree with that. Labour was holding the two blocs of voters based on one common cause - Left wing economics. It looks like Starmer failed miserably on economics as you said. Failing on the economic issues, the two voting blocs have split on social issues, with one going to Reform and another going to the Greens. Now they are scrambling around, trying to find a solution. They know that the economic issues aren't easy to solve. So they have to attract one of these groups on social issues. A | |||
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"Looking forward to Scottish Independence when it comes 🙂 It's all but inevitable now in the final conclusion of Brexit 👏👏👏" They have a big gap to the 2 second place parties but actually seem to have lost 6 seats from the previous election. Might still be quite a wait to get another referendum | |||
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"He seems oblivious to what’s just happened, now Starmer has appointed Gordon Brown and Harriet Harman as advisers after the election losses. 20 odd MPs reportedly saying he should go by the end of this year. " He certainly does seem oblivious. One report was he said after the election that the people are happy with his policy direction but just want things done quicker. | |||
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"Looking forward to Scottish Independence when it comes 🙂 It's all but inevitable now in the final conclusion of Brexit 👏👏👏" Frankly if England can get rid of the Scottish hangers on Brexit will have been well worth it. I’m sure Scotland will become Europe’s Venezuela in a matter of months. | |||
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" I’m sure Scotland will become Europe’s Venezuela in a matter of months." Because of its oil and gas? | |||
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" I’m sure Scotland will become Europe’s Venezuela in a matter of months. Because of its oil and gas?" Nice one | |||
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" I’m sure Scotland will become Europe’s Venezuela in a matter of months. Because of its oil and gas?" I think the oil and gas issue was one of the reasons that the greens and SNP fell out during the previous coalition | |||
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