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"Remain It’s been a lot of admin for something that was meant to be taking back control actually meant losing it. Would happily return to the EU like nothing ever happened. It’s been a great success for Farage not so much for the rest of us. " Thank you, and welcome to the Politics Section! | |||
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"Remain It’s been a lot of admin for something that was meant to be taking back control actually meant losing it. Would happily return to the EU like nothing ever happened. It’s been a great success for Farage not so much for the rest of us. Thank you, and welcome to the Politics Section! " ahaha this is the first time I noticed there was a politics section which is mad cause I love a whinge | |||
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"Also Sovereignty, I’m literally bathing in that since we left. Oh no I’m not cause that was just a mindset not a measurable benefit. " Would the terms of our return affect your choice or would you rejoin on any terms ? | |||
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"Remain It’s been a lot of admin for something that was meant to be taking back control actually meant losing it. Would happily return to the EU like nothing ever happened. It’s been a great success for Farage not so much for the rest of us. Thank you, and welcome to the Politics Section! ahaha this is the first time I noticed there was a politics section which is mad cause I love a whinge " Haha, you'll find we're all whingers here 🤣 | |||
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"Also Sovereignty, I’m literally bathing in that since we left. Oh no I’m not cause that was just a mindset not a measurable benefit. Would the terms of our return affect your choice or would you rejoin on any terms ?" With the freedom to live and work in the Eu restored yeah, I’d pretty much take anything. In fact with the new biometric collection there would be no reason not to join Schengen to be honest. Pretty certain could rope them into off shore processing for asylum claims so that should stop the moaning about the boats ( no coincidence that increased). I don’t think reform, the Tories or Labour want people to stop crossing in small boats though. Gives them a group of relatively inexpensive people to blame for the shitshow. I wouldn’t take us back. It’s embarrassing | |||
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"1. I didn't bother voting. 2. It's made no difference to me whatsoever. 3. I don't care whether we rejoin or not." Thanks  | |||
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"I voted Remain in 2016 I think the effect has been neutral/poor for uk I would not vote to rejoin the EU at this point" Very similar to me  | |||
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"1. I didn't bother voting. 2. It's made no difference to me whatsoever. 3. I don't care whether we rejoin or not. Thanks "My post wasn't meant to be glib, but to show that for many people, including myself and my family, it made no difference to our lives at all. | |||
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"1. I didn't bother voting. 2. It's made no difference to me whatsoever. 3. I don't care whether we rejoin or not. Thanks
My post wasn't meant to be glib, but to show that for many people, including myself and my family, it made no difference to our lives at all."Thar is very fair comment. | |||
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"1. I didn't bother voting. 2. It's made no difference to me whatsoever. 3. I don't care whether we rejoin or not. Thanks
My post wasn't meant to be glib, but to show that for many people, including myself and my family, it made no difference to our lives at all."As a resident in the UK, it's unavoidable not to be affected by it. It has an impact on our economy, which will impact our taxes,as well as public services. It affects each of us, every day | |||
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"We're almost at the ten year anniversary of the vote which took Britain out of the EU by a narrow 52% to 48% of the vote. To mark the occasion, three questions. -How did you vote in 2016 ? - Do you think Brexit has been a failure, a success or a mixture? - How would you vote if there was a new referendum to rejoin the EU ?" One of us voted remain. The other didn't vote, as was on a plane at short notice, but would've voted remain. It has been a mixture, leaning towards failure. Not as bad as the doomsayers, but few tangible benefits. Completely depends on what the offer is and whether that is good for the country. Leaning towards rejoining, would want EU reform first, unless it's on punitive terms. | |||
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"We voted remain. . A failure, particularly for businesses of various types. Eg, Financials losing "passporting" and ÂŁ900bn of assets relocated, Automotive and trade friction / border delays, higher costs, etc. EU-facing retail (customs changes, reduced competitiveness), Agriculture (37% reduction in exports to the EU, more trade friction, labour shortages (seasonal EU workers). I could go on, but you get my drift. . We'd both vote Rejoin. . I'd fully back a government that asked humbly, admit they messed up, and wanted to play equitably. No more exceptionalism. Equal partners. . Frictionless trade, frictionless borders, less red tape again for businesses. Access to wider market. Greater opportunity. " Automotive is failing right across Europe with or without Brexit, it has everything to do with China being able to out produce and design the Europeans | |||
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"I voted to leave. The fundamental issue for me was (and still is) the Euro. For a currency to work properly it needs to set interest rates (which the Euro does) and it also needs to be able to move money between different areas via fiscal transfer to offset the impacts of those interest rates. That has never happened. The result is that the Euro sets its interest rates to the prevailing centre of the economy and everywhere else has to take that interest rate and adjust accordingly. There are two primary economic centres to the EU - the UK and Germany/Benelux - and they dance to a different economic beat. They require different interest rate cycles and trying to put a huge economic centre into an interest rate cycle it doesn’t need would have caused all sorts of wild gyrations. You could see that playing out to a lesser extent repeatedly in southern Europe and Ireland. We tried to align the UK and Germany in the early 90s and it failed because of this very issue. We ended up with the ERM debacle and it became very clear that the Euro could never sustain the UK and Germany in the same currency. The UK worked well inside Europe for many years post ERM but the problem is that the trajectory of the EU is for ever increasing euro integration. The UK can never be part of that club, no matter how much we would want to. That means that we would always be outsiders. We were increasingly seen as difficult and beligerent. We were viewed as wanting to be seen as “special”. The blunt reality is that we were different and that did mean we needed “special” treatment simply due to the size of our economy. I don’t think Cameron should have asked the question but when he did my view was that we need to accept that fundamental reality and act accordingly. Hence my vote to leave and try to set our own direction. I would still vote to leave for this exact reason. " People often bring up the euro as a reason the UK had to leave the EU but that doesn’t really hold up. The UK already had a permanent opt-out. We kept control of our own interest rates and monetary policy the entire time. The structural issues with the euro, like one-size-fits-all interest rates were real, but they mainly affected countries inside it, not us. The EU isn’t a single rigid system either. It’s always been a mix of different levels of integration. Some countries use the euro, some don’t. Some are in deeper, some stay more independent. The UK was already operating in that flexible space. If anything, the euro crisis reinforced that split euro countries integrated more, while countries like the UK kept their autonomy. So leaving didn’t solve the euro problem. We’d already solved it by staying out. What leaving actually did was give up our influence over the rules of a market we’re still closely tied to. We didn’t escape the system, we just lost our say in it. | |||
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"I voted to leave. The fundamental issue for me was (and still is) the Euro. For a currency to work properly it needs to set interest rates (which the Euro does) and it also needs to be able to move money between different areas via fiscal transfer to offset the impacts of those interest rates. That has never happened. The result is that the Euro sets its interest rates to the prevailing centre of the economy and everywhere else has to take that interest rate and adjust accordingly. There are two primary economic centres to the EU - the UK and Germany/Benelux - and they dance to a different economic beat. They require different interest rate cycles and trying to put a huge economic centre into an interest rate cycle it doesn’t need would have caused all sorts of wild gyrations. You could see that playing out to a lesser extent repeatedly in southern Europe and Ireland. We tried to align the UK and Germany in the early 90s and it failed because of this very issue. We ended up with the ERM debacle and it became very clear that the Euro could never sustain the UK and Germany in the same currency. The UK worked well inside Europe for many years post ERM but the problem is that the trajectory of the EU is for ever increasing euro integration. The UK can never be part of that club, no matter how much we would want to. That means that we would always be outsiders. We were increasingly seen as difficult and beligerent. We were viewed as wanting to be seen as “special”. The blunt reality is that we were different and that did mean we needed “special” treatment simply due to the size of our economy. I don’t think Cameron should have asked the question but when he did my view was that we need to accept that fundamental reality and act accordingly. Hence my vote to leave and try to set our own direction. I would still vote to leave for this exact reason. People often bring up the euro as a reason the UK had to leave the EU but that doesn’t really hold up. The UK already had a permanent opt-out. We kept control of our own interest rates and monetary policy the entire time. The structural issues with the euro, like one-size-fits-all interest rates were real, but they mainly affected countries inside it, not us. The EU isn’t a single rigid system either. It’s always been a mix of different levels of integration. Some countries use the euro, some don’t. Some are in deeper, some stay more independent. The UK was already operating in that flexible space. If anything, the euro crisis reinforced that split euro countries integrated more, while countries like the UK kept their autonomy. So leaving didn’t solve the euro problem. We’d already solved it by staying out. What leaving actually did was give up our influence over the rules of a market we’re still closely tied to. We didn’t escape the system, we just lost our say in it. " As I said: “The UK worked well inside Europe for many years post ERM but the problem is that the trajectory of the EU is for ever increasing euro integration. ” That statement is meant to indicate that we did have opt outs. I agree with you. The problem is that they were becoming increasingly contentious. And then: “I don’t think Cameron should have asked the question but when he did my view was that we need to accept that fundamental reality and act accordingly. Hence my vote to leave and try to set our own direction.” I would have preferred for the question not to have been asked in 2016 and a more coherent plan put forward for us to vote on but that didn’t happen. That was a fundamental mistake. Personally I think the the EU needs three, maybe four currencies. The Euro covers Northern Europe and Germany. We need another for the Uk and Ireland and a third to cover southern Europe. You could make a potential argument for a forth to cover Eastern Europe. Those areas all have fundamentally different trajectories and a single currency to cover all of them doesn’t work. Multiple crisis in southern Europe and Ireland show that. | |||
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"the referendum was a thin sham for what was actually civil war amongst the righists within the conservative and unionist party that had been raging for four decades. in 2016 a reality tv style popularity contest was arranged to get the public to decide the winner.... it failed miserably and has brought us to where we are today with the uk rightist movement which has splintered into even more warring factions and represented by 3 or 4 political parties. all that the brexit vote managed to do was create a huge mess." I'll mark you down as a 'don't know'. | |||
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" Once the referendum was called, neither major party guided the public properly. Cameron led the Conservatives but didn’t want to leave; Corbyn led Labour but didn’t champion remain. That left Farage as the loudest voice he’s charismatic and makes all the promises people seem to want, from more money for farmers and the NHS to stopping the boats but he never says how any of it would actually happen. I very much suspect he’s going to be a Prime Minister that talks big and delivers nothing. Why anyone doesn’t immediately do the opposite of what that slimey toad wants is beyond me " A minor point perhaps but Farage did not lead the Vote Leave campaign, and the famous slogan on a bus had nothing to do with him. It's also fair to say that since Brexit spending on the NHS has increased by far more than £350m a week. | |||
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"the referendum was a thin sham for what was actually civil war amongst the righists within the conservative and unionist party that had been raging for four decades. in 2016 a reality tv style popularity contest was arranged to get the public to decide the winner.... it failed miserably and has brought us to where we are today with the uk rightist movement which has splintered into even more warring factions and represented by 3 or 4 political parties. all that the brexit vote managed to do was create a huge mess." I think the latter was the intention, be that hostile governments or speculation who make money regardless the cost to others.. | |||
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"the referendum was a thin sham for what was actually civil war amongst the righists within the conservative and unionist party that had been raging for four decades. in 2016 a reality tv style popularity contest was arranged to get the public to decide the winner.... it failed miserably and has brought us to where we are today with the uk rightist movement which has splintered into even more warring factions and represented by 3 or 4 political parties. all that the brexit vote managed to do was create a huge mess. I'll mark you down as a 'don't know'." make up whatever bullshit you want .... it's been your MO all along | |||
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"the referendum was a thin sham for what was actually civil war amongst the righists within the conservative and unionist party that had been raging for four decades. in 2016 a reality tv style popularity contest was arranged to get the public to decide the winner.... it failed miserably and has brought us to where we are today with the uk rightist movement which has splintered into even more warring factions and represented by 3 or 4 political parties. all that the brexit vote managed to do was create a huge mess. I'll mark you down as a 'don't know'. make up whatever bullshit you want .... it's been your MO all along "Ah...I guess one thread with sensible debate and free of lower case abuse was too much to hope for.  | |||
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" I think the latter was the intention, be that hostile governments or speculation who make money regardless the cost to others.." completely correct. a very small group of people endevour to destabilise markets to capitalise and make profits with no regard as to the wider effects of those actions, whilst grooming suseptable elements in society via their media outlets to parrot what they've been programed to say as a buffer to those who might prevent them from achieving their aims. | |||
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"We're almost at the ten year anniversary of the vote which took Britain out of the EU by a narrow 52% to 48% of the vote. To mark the occasion, three questions. -How did you vote in 2016 ? - Do you think Brexit has been a failure, a success or a mixture? - How would you vote if there was a new referendum to rejoin the EU ?" I voted leave We never got the Brexit we voted for, we got some middle ground that very few on either side of the debate are happy with. That’s why it still being argued over 7 years later and probably will always be argued over. Questions like “name me one benefit of Brexit” are constantly asked by those who want us in the EU but the answers are always ignored or not deemed to be beneficial in their eye. Well don’t ask the question then! I would vote against joining the EU The main benefits of EU membership are 1. Freedom of movement. Funny how anyone from any country in the world can just walk into the EU without a passport or any ID but Brits can’t and will actually get deported. 2. Free trade. We could have that, but the EU don’t want to. Take it up with them. The whole “you can’t have member benefits without being a member” is just childish. Fine, don’t have free trade then, it harms the EU more than us. 3. Freedom to live anywhere in the EU. Again, everyone else in the world can anyway, you don’t need EU citizenship to live in the EU, you just turn up and ask. I can’t think of any others. These certainly ain’t worth the £20 billion quid they would probably demand for membership now. But Starmer would just hand over the £20 billion anyway, even without joining again. | |||
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" Once the referendum was called, neither major party guided the public properly. Cameron led the Conservatives but didn’t want to leave; Corbyn led Labour but didn’t champion remain. That left Farage as the loudest voice he’s charismatic and makes all the promises people seem to want, from more money for farmers and the NHS to stopping the boats but he never says how any of it would actually happen. I very much suspect he’s going to be a Prime Minister that talks big and delivers nothing. Why anyone doesn’t immediately do the opposite of what that slimey toad wants is beyond me A minor point perhaps but Farage did not lead the Vote Leave campaign, and the famous slogan on a bus had nothing to do with him. It's also fair to say that since Brexit spending on the NHS has increased by far more than £350m a week." I don’t agree. Farage may not have officially run Vote Leave, but he was by far the loudest public voice driving the leave message, arguably the figure most people associated with the campaign. And the claim about the NHS wad misleading, promises about £350m a week never reflected reality, and post-Brexit spending increases don’t retroactively justify those claims NHS spending has increased since before 2016, but that’s because long‑term funding plans were already set in motion and health costs are rising, not because Brexit magically put extra cash into the system. A lot of the extra money gets siphoned off into outsourcing and private contracts, tens of millions per week leave the NHS in private profits and costly outsourcing deals because successive governments have opened up more services to private providers rather than strengthening the public core. They’ve been selling it off for 40 plus years under our noses because it’s costly, I truly believe they’re making it as costly as possible so they can dump it. Then it’ll be means testing state pensions so they need the small boats to keep coming so they have someone to blame but that’s my conspiracy theory and off topic. | |||
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"there won't be referendum vote to go back into the EU. it will simply be re-introduced into some party manifestos and eventually will become the democratic mandate if those parties win enough seats at a general election." This.. The deal was a fudge, a bodge job that had to be altered slowly, given the toxicity of the 16 vote before and still now ten years later theres no way is any party going to push for a vote.. | |||
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"Voted leave primarily due to the “ever deeper political integration” aim of the EU. This can’t work with such diverse member countries, politically and economically. When we grew up there were economic tensions regarding the Mediterranean countries being subsidised, then once that was sorted the EU did exactly the same thing with the Eastern European countries. The common market is a good idea, and we should be a part of it. The EU as a political organisation is not. Leaving hasn’t been a success at all. This is mainly due to the poor quality of our politicians, many of whom never wanted to leave, and the EU bias of the Civil Service blob. Very little effort was made to deregulate and forge our own path. No effort was made to control immigration so that it benefited the economy instead of being a drag. The net zero madness without a credible plan for replacing fossil fuels, effectively shifting emissions to others who just rubbed their hands in glee as they took our money has impoverished us. So we have ended up as a minor player in the world, who can’t sustain ourselves economically and who can’t defend what little we have as our military has been eviscerated. How would we vote now? Probably to rejoin as it will make it easier to emigrate, which is the only option left due to the abysmal quality of life in the UK now." Thank you for such a well thought out answer. | |||
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"We're almost at the ten year anniversary of the vote which took Britain out of the EU by a narrow 52% to 48% of the vote. To mark the occasion, three questions. -How did you vote in 2016 ? - Do you think Brexit has been a failure, a success or a mixture? - How would you vote if there was a new referendum to rejoin the EU ? I voted leave We never got the Brexit we voted for, we got some middle ground that very few on either side of the debate are happy with. That’s why it still being argued over 7 years later and probably will always be argued over. Questions like “name me one benefit of Brexit” are constantly asked by those who want us in the EU but the answers are always ignored or not deemed to be beneficial in their eye. Well don’t ask the question then! I would vote against joining the EU The main benefits of EU membership are 1. Freedom of movement. Funny how anyone from any country in the world can just walk into the EU without a passport or any ID but Brits can’t and will actually get deported. 2. Free trade. We could have that, but the EU don’t want to. Take it up with them. The whole “you can’t have member benefits without being a member” is just childish. Fine, don’t have free trade then, it harms the EU more than us. 3. Freedom to live anywhere in the EU. Again, everyone else in the world can anyway, you don’t need EU citizenship to live in the EU, you just turn up and ask. I can’t think of any others. These certainly ain’t worth the £20 billion quid they would probably demand for membership now. But Starmer would just hand over the £20 billion anyway, even without joining again. " Also a very clear and intelligent answer. | |||
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"there won't be referendum vote to go back into the EU. it will simply be re-introduced into some party manifestos and eventually will become the democratic mandate if those parties win enough seats at a general election. This.. The deal was a fudge, a bodge job that had to be altered slowly, given the toxicity of the 16 vote before and still now ten years later theres no way is any party going to push for a vote.." and with the 16-50 pro eu vote polling at a staggering 84% along with the anti-eu voters literally dying out at an overwhelmingly exponetial rate, the process will start very very soon. we can probably expect to see it starting to enter some manifestos prior to the next general election. | |||
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" ... The UK is not a country to bring up kids or grow old in. The thing is, unlike South Africans where can we flee to?" I quite fancy South Africa, at least for part of the year but, better still, New Zealand. However, I am too old to travel anymore. Oh, and by the way with further reference to the above post.. ..Why do you think I decided way back in 1970 that I didn't think bringing kids into the unfolding future was a good idea? | |||
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"Failure as far as I am concerned because we are still stuck with Europe dictating vehicle specifications leaving us with no choice but bodged left hand drive spec bodywork, engine layout and controls. Never noticed for yourselves? Shows how bloody unobservant the dumbo British motorist is! Start by looking at the rear doors on any van, just for starters..." Surely thats not Europe and mostly about cost. The UK is a small, left-hand drive market, so manufacturers probs adapt vehicles designed for right-hand drive countries rather than designing a completely bespoke model. The bodges sound like compromises to make it economical for a niche market. | |||
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"Failure as far as I am concerned because we are still stuck with Europe dictating vehicle specifications leaving us with no choice but bodged left hand drive spec bodywork, engine layout and controls. Never noticed for yourselves? Shows how bloody unobservant the dumbo British motorist is! Start by looking at the rear doors on any van, just for starters..." I have noticed this on BMW's 5 & 7 series, the steering wheel doesn't feel centred in UK models, they feel slightly off I think due to the footwell pedal position and it altering the seating position slightly. Drive the same model in Europe, everything feels centred | |||
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"Wife voted remain, hubby voted leave. We both think the country has gotten worse, but we also both know its not due to 'Brexit'. Economy wise we have ridiculous fuel costs and cost of living. People spending more on basics like food and fuel mean they buy less in the economy. On immigration, yes leaving the EU means its harder to return illegal boat people but then Boris Johnson decided to start issuing millions of visa to Pakistanis, Indians, and Africans for... reasons. The man needs stringing up to be honest. The UK is not a country to bring up kids or grow old in. The thing is, unlike South Africans where can we flee to?" I'm pleased your different opinions have not affected your relationship! Good luck finding an exit route.🙏 | |||
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"there won't be referendum vote to go back into the EU. it will simply be re-introduced into some party manifestos and eventually will become the democratic mandate if those parties win enough seats at a general election." This is my expectation as well. Although there is a party already created purely to rejoin, they are relatively new and so far not gaining traction. I think the Lib Dems and the greens are probably pro rejoin, either fully or rejoin the customs union etc | |||
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"there won't be referendum vote to go back into the EU. it will simply be re-introduced into some party manifestos and eventually will become the democratic mandate if those parties win enough seats at a general election. This.. The deal was a fudge, a bodge job that had to be altered slowly, given the toxicity of the 16 vote before and still now ten years later theres no way is any party going to push for a vote.. and with the 16-50 pro eu vote polling at a staggering 84% along with the anti-eu voters literally dying out at an overwhelmingly exponetial rate, the process will start very very soon. we can probably expect to see it starting to enter some manifestos prior to the next general election." . Opinion polls certainly indicate that pro-rejoin parties are way ahead. Let’s hope Labour adds rejoin as a commitment in its next GE manifesto. | |||
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"Opinion polls have been showing the vast majority of UK people now seeing that the vote to leave was a clear mistake. Strangely the politicians who are said to enjoy saying it like it is, are noticeably silent. There's a distinct lack of honesty. " if the rightist blob are to be believed about protest votes affecting the outcome of the local elections then the chase for the votes of the majority who support rejoining will be inevitable. | |||
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"We're almost at the ten year anniversary of the vote which took Britain out of the EU by a narrow 52% to 48% of the vote. To mark the occasion, three questions. -How did you vote in 2016 ? - Do you think Brexit has been a failure, a success or a mixture? - How would you vote if there was a new referendum to rejoin the EU ?" Good question op. 1st though... 10 years! Where the fuck did that time go. I seem to recall turn out was particularly low? Especially in the agree group most effected. I voted leave. It's been an abject failure, mostly because of the mismanagement of the decision but also it was a shit decision. It seemed way beyond the abilities of our politicians and civil service to manage such a process. And I don't think I'd rejoin at this point. We would be bent over and shafted by them so would be 2 crap decisions to mismanage. | |||
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"We're almost at the ten year anniversary of the vote which took Britain out of the EU by a narrow 52% to 48% of the vote. To mark the occasion, three questions. -How did you vote in 2016 ? - Do you think Brexit has been a failure, a success or a mixture? - How would you vote if there was a new referendum to rejoin the EU ? Good question op. 1st though... 10 years! Where the fuck did that time go. I seem to recall turn out was particularly low? Especially in the agree group most effected. I voted leave. It's been an abject failure, mostly because of the mismanagement of the decision but also it was a shit decision. It seemed way beyond the abilities of our politicians and civil service to manage such a process. And I don't think I'd rejoin at this point. We would be bent over and shafted by them so would be 2 crap decisions to mismanage. " Turnout was relatively high actually, about 70 % I think? | |||
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"The fascinating things about the “EU” as an issue, is that if you ask people what their key political priorities are in polling, they tend to come up with: Immigration 37% Economy 34% Defence 31% Inflation 21% NHS 20% “The EU” usually comes in at around 1-2%. Nobody really cares. One wonders therefore why Starmer is spending so much time on it, though one could say the same about a lot of other things that seem to be a government focus (Chagos Islands, Assisted Dying etc). " Because it's a piece of piss to arrange another dodgy referendum. The 5 listed areas of concern take real political will, leadership and substance to improve. No political party is capable of addressing them. | |||
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"Opinion polls have been showing the vast majority of UK people now seeing that the vote to leave was a clear mistake. Strangely the politicians who are said to enjoy saying it like it is, are noticeably silent. There's a distinct lack of honesty. " I believe polls have it about 60/40 in favour of rejoining- is that a vast majority? Before the 2016 vote There were plenty of polls saying Remain would win at least 55/45 (a major reason why Cameron gambled on a vote) so I wouldn't bet on another shift, especially as the details of any deal were examined in detail. | |||
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"We're almost at the ten year anniversary of the vote which took Britain out of the EU by a narrow 52% to 48% of the vote. To mark the occasion, three questions. -How did you vote in 2016 ? - Do you think Brexit has been a failure, a success or a mixture? - How would you vote if there was a new referendum to rejoin the EU ? Good question op. 1st though... 10 years! Where the fuck did that time go. I seem to recall turn out was particularly low? Especially in the agree group most effected. I voted leave. It's been an abject failure, mostly because of the mismanagement of the decision but also it was a shit decision. It seemed way beyond the abilities of our politicians and civil service to manage such a process. And I don't think I'd rejoin at this point. We would be bent over and shafted by them so would be 2 crap decisions to mismanage. Turnout was relatively high actually, about 70 % I think? " Yes and no... Look at turnout in under 35s and over 65s... Very different numbers. | |||
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"Opinion polls have been showing the vast majority of UK people now seeing that the vote to leave was a clear mistake. Strangely the politicians who are said to enjoy saying it like it is, are noticeably silent. There's a distinct lack of honesty. I believe polls have it about 60/40 in favour of rejoining- is that a vast majority? Before the 2016 vote There were plenty of polls saying Remain would win at least 55/45 (a major reason why Cameron gambled on a vote) so I wouldn't bet on another shift, especially as the details of any deal were examined in detail. " What's interesting about the rejoin polls is that once you ask specific questions such as 'do you want free movement/unlimited migration ?' the number soon shift to be more sceptical. I very much doubt if any party will be brave enough to call another referendum and we will just get closer alignment with no mandate. | |||
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"We're almost at the ten year anniversary of the vote which took Britain out of the EU by a narrow 52% to 48% of the vote. To mark the occasion, three questions. -How did you vote in 2016 ? - Do you think Brexit has been a failure, a success or a mixture? - How would you vote if there was a new referendum to rejoin the EU ? Good question op. 1st though... 10 years! Where the fuck did that time go. I seem to recall turn out was particularly low? Especially in the agree group most effected. I voted leave. It's been an abject failure, mostly because of the mismanagement of the decision but also it was a shit decision. It seemed way beyond the abilities of our politicians and civil service to manage such a process. And I don't think I'd rejoin at this point. We would be bent over and shafted by them so would be 2 crap decisions to mismanage. Turnout was relatively high actually, about 70 % I think? Yes and no... Look at turnout in under 35s and over 65s... Very different numbers. " But that's the same with every election - young people don't vote then moan at the outcome! | |||
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"We're almost at the ten year anniversary of the vote which took Britain out of the EU by a narrow 52% to 48% of the vote. To mark the occasion, three questions. -How did you vote in 2016 ? - Do you think Brexit has been a failure, a success or a mixture? - How would you vote if there was a new referendum to rejoin the EU ? Good question op. 1st though... 10 years! Where the fuck did that time go. I seem to recall turn out was particularly low? Especially in the agree group most effected. I voted leave. It's been an abject failure, mostly because of the mismanagement of the decision but also it was a shit decision. It seemed way beyond the abilities of our politicians and civil service to manage such a process. And I don't think I'd rejoin at this point. We would be bent over and shafted by them so would be 2 crap decisions to mismanage. Turnout was relatively high actually, about 70 % I think? Yes and no... Look at turnout in under 35s and over 65s... Very different numbers. But that's the same with every election - young people don't vote then moan at the outcome! " If I remember well... I think the subject matter of the referendum was not as important to many as it was to give the political elite a bloody nose. Those arrogant cunts Blair Cameron and that lib dem bloke who I can't recall (like most lib dem politicians) who were so arrogant they didn't believe the public would vote against the elite... Not sure it was even a vote for farage so much as against the other 3....and then there was disbelief and trying to ignore it and delay trying to wangle a new referendum that would arrive at the "correct" outcome. And that's the trouble with referenda. | |||
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"Stupidiest thing the English have ever done to the rest of us (they alone gave Cameron power) . Travel harder, prices spiral to make other expensive countries look reasonable. Shit passport that is not inclusive even less than previous one. Racism and hate has been normalised. People barely afford to live. Nobody asks about the £500 billion missing out of the economy (figure much higher, the number was reported on several years ago). Positives is I binned brexit voters I knew and will never holiday in the UK or drink in a sticky pub with witherspoons on the door or buy a Dyson. " Wales voted for Brexit 🤣🤣 | |||
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"French and German economies are in the toilet - must be because of Brexit 🙄🥱" Of course ! | |||
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"Stupidiest thing the English have ever done to the rest of us (they alone gave Cameron power) . Travel harder, prices spiral to make other expensive countries look reasonable. Shit passport that is not inclusive even less than previous one. Racism and hate has been normalised. People barely afford to live. Nobody asks about the £500 billion missing out of the economy (figure much higher, the number was reported on several years ago). Positives is I binned brexit voters I knew and will never holiday in the UK or drink in a sticky pub with witherspoons on the door or buy a Dyson. " If you’re not happy being in the union, leave. | |||
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"The fascinating things about the “EU” as an issue, is that if you ask people what their key political priorities are in polling, they tend to come up with: Immigration 37% Economy 34% Defence 31% Inflation 21% NHS 20% “The EU” usually comes in at around 1-2%. Nobody really cares. One wonders therefore why Starmer is spending so much time on it, though one could say the same about a lot of other things that seem to be a government focus (Chagos Islands, Assisted Dying etc). " In a Democracy those least able to grasp the economic needs of the country, through their vote, control its path. We need a better educated electorate. | |||
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"The fascinating things about the “EU” as an issue, is that if you ask people what their key political priorities are in polling, they tend to come up with: Immigration 37% Economy 34% Defence 31% Inflation 21% NHS 20% “The EU” usually comes in at around 1-2%. Nobody really cares. One wonders therefore why Starmer is spending so much time on it, though one could say the same about a lot of other things that seem to be a government focus (Chagos Islands, Assisted Dying etc). In a Democracy those least able to grasp the economic needs of the country, through their vote, control its path. We need a better educated electorate. " The 'best educated'people now have the Greens as their first choice in the polls. I'd be asking for my money back tbh. | |||
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"1. I didn't bother voting. 2. It's made no difference to me whatsoever. 3. I don't care whether we rejoin or not." The comment I didn't bother voting angers me as an ex servicemen & whose parents lost a brother each during WWII. They & I bothered to stand up to allow you to vote on a major decision to give you a voice that if they hadn't would probably have seen you one of the first to have been sent to an extermination camp if they hadn't done that. Everyone should vote no matter what! | |||
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"Stupidiest thing the English have ever done to the rest of us (they alone gave Cameron power) . Travel harder, prices spiral to make other expensive countries look reasonable. Shit passport that is not inclusive even less than previous one. Racism and hate has been normalised. People barely afford to live. Nobody asks about the £500 billion missing out of the economy (figure much higher, the number was reported on several years ago). Positives is I binned brexit voters I knew and will never holiday in the UK or drink in a sticky pub with witherspoons on the door or buy a Dyson. Wales voted for Brexit 🤣🤣" So did Cornwall, and they are £1b in debt. They relied on handouts from the EU, but choose to leave anyway. | |||
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"Stupidiest thing the English have ever done to the rest of us (they alone gave Cameron power) . Travel harder, prices spiral to make other expensive countries look reasonable. Shit passport that is not inclusive even less than previous one. Racism and hate has been normalised. People barely afford to live. Nobody asks about the £500 billion missing out of the economy (figure much higher, the number was reported on several years ago). Positives is I binned brexit voters I knew and will never holiday in the UK or drink in a sticky pub with witherspoons on the door or buy a Dyson. Wales voted for Brexit 🤣🤣 So did Cornwall, and they are £1b in debt. They relied on handouts from the EU, but choose to leave anyway. " Where did the EU get the money from? | |||
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" If you’re not happy being in the union, leave. " ok | |||
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"1. I didn't bother voting. 2. It's made no difference to me whatsoever. 3. I don't care whether we rejoin or not. The comment I didn't bother voting angers me as an ex servicemen & whose parents lost a brother each during WWII. They & I bothered to stand up to allow you to vote on a major decision to give you a voice that if they hadn't would probably have seen you one of the first to have been sent to an extermination camp if they hadn't done that. Everyone should vote no matter what!" When the referendum happened, I researched the information available at the time, much of which was sketchy at best. I decided, based on my findings, that neither option was more preferable than the other. As I said in my post, leaving has made no difference to my life whatsoever, and neither would have remaining. It was, for me, a complete 50/50, hence no vote for either. I have the greatest respect and gratitude for your, and your forebears' service and sacrifice - me, and my ancestors have served this country, and suffered loss in a similar way. Those who fought and died on my behalf did so for freedoms, and I consider one of those is to have a greater freedom of choice in my life and the lives of others. The right to vote is a right, not an enforced obligation and never should be such. | |||
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"Where did the EU get the money from? " There’s no EU money for projects or development. It is all taken from the members, and the UK was a net contributor. So to anyone who harps on about how much EU funding improved their community, let’s play a game where I play the EU: You give me a substantial amount of money to be part of the club. I will spend part of it on admin, part on unrelated projects, part on highly paid staff who don’t do much. I will decide what to spend the rest on, and give you the opportunity to bid for part of the money. If you bid you have to follow my rules, and you are bidding against all the other countries in the club. If you are successful and I give you some of your money back, you have to follow my rules on how you can spend it, including procurement rules which can’t favour local contractors. | |||
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"Where did the EU get the money from? There’s no EU money for projects or development. It is all taken from the members, and the UK was a net contributor. So to anyone who harps on about how much EU funding improved their community, let’s play a game where I play the EU: You give me a substantial amount of money to be part of the club. I will spend part of it on admin, part on unrelated projects, part on highly paid staff who don’t do much. I will decide what to spend the rest on, and give you the opportunity to bid for part of the money. If you bid you have to follow my rules, and you are bidding against all the other countries in the club. If you are successful and I give you some of your money back, you have to follow my rules on how you can spend it, including procurement rules which can’t favour local contractors." All of that is true. Sadly our own politicians and civil servants have proven themselves to be less competent than the unelected EU ones. | |||
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"Where did the EU get the money from? There’s no EU money for projects or development. It is all taken from the members, and the UK was a net contributor. So to anyone who harps on about how much EU funding improved their community, let’s play a game where I play the EU: You give me a substantial amount of money to be part of the club. I will spend part of it on admin, part on unrelated projects, part on highly paid staff who don’t do much. I will decide what to spend the rest on, and give you the opportunity to bid for part of the money. If you bid you have to follow my rules, and you are bidding against all the other countries in the club. If you are successful and I give you some of your money back, you have to follow my rules on how you can spend it, including procurement rules which can’t favour local contractors." Perfect analogy. I don’t get what all the fuss is about with being in the EU…. Freedom of movement? Could still have that if both sides agreed. Free trade? Could still have that if both sides agreed. But free trade isn’t free trade if it costs billions to oversee. Once those are dealt with what’s left? Some vague idealistic notion that we’re better inside a club than outside but no quantifiable reason why. If I live alone I can watch whatever I want on TV. If I have 27 mates over, by the time we finally agree to watch some obscure Moldovan documentary with no subtitles about how the English are all bastards, it’s actually finished. The EU is no different to a trade association where the biggest benefit is telling non members that you’re a member. A financial black hole where all you seem to get for your money is people telling you what you can and can’t do. You can theoretically vitro proposals but if you ever do, you get asked why you want to be a member when you don’t agree with anything the French and Germans want to do. There’s a parliament with no actual powers, a court system with no actual power unless your government want to blindly follow their rulings as a get out of jail free card to never having to make their own decisions and stand by them. And if you don’t follow the rules made by unelected quangos on €250,000 a year, you get fined. But that only matters if you’re one of the country’s that don’t actually pay to be members because they can dock it off the money you get from the UK. But this debate is all irrelevant because there will never be another referendum in the UK. The government of the day will decide so expect to join in everything but name by the end of this parliament and Farage to undo all that after the next election. Hey ho | |||
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"Where did the EU get the money from? There’s no EU money for projects or development. It is all taken from the members, and the UK was a net contributor. So to anyone who harps on about how much EU funding improved their community, let’s play a game where I play the EU: You give me a substantial amount of money to be part of the club. I will spend part of it on admin, part on unrelated projects, part on highly paid staff who don’t do much. I will decide what to spend the rest on, and give you the opportunity to bid for part of the money. If you bid you have to follow my rules, and you are bidding against all the other countries in the club. If you are successful and I give you some of your money back, you have to follow my rules on how you can spend it, including procurement rules which can’t favour local contractors. Perfect analogy. I don’t get what all the fuss is about with being in the EU…. Freedom of movement? Could still have that if both sides agreed. Free trade? Could still have that if both sides agreed. But free trade isn’t free trade if it costs billions to oversee. Once those are dealt with what’s left? Some vague idealistic notion that we’re better inside a club than outside but no quantifiable reason why. If I live alone I can watch whatever I want on TV. If I have 27 mates over, by the time we finally agree to watch some obscure Moldovan documentary with no subtitles about how the English are all bastards, it’s actually finished. The EU is no different to a trade association where the biggest benefit is telling non members that you’re a member. A financial black hole where all you seem to get for your money is people telling you what you can and can’t do. You can theoretically vitro proposals but if you ever do, you get asked why you want to be a member when you don’t agree with anything the French and Germans want to do. There’s a parliament with no actual powers, a court system with no actual power unless your government want to blindly follow their rulings as a get out of jail free card to never having to make their own decisions and stand by them. And if you don’t follow the rules made by unelected quangos on €250,000 a year, you get fined. But that only matters if you’re one of the country’s that don’t actually pay to be members because they can dock it off the money you get from the UK. But this debate is all irrelevant because there will never be another referendum in the UK. The government of the day will decide so expect to join in everything but name by the end of this parliament and Farage to undo all that after the next election. Hey ho " This is not as straightforward as simply allowing freedom of movement and free trade, both come with policies and standards that need to be agreed by all. The benefits of being inside the bloc were tariff free trade, yes, there was an agreed standard that needed to be met but that is a safety net rather than a barrier that is put in place to prevent or hinder. I agree that bureaucracy within the bloc is cumbersome and tends to slow down change, but that is really no different to where we are today outside of the EU. The strength in the UK comes from finance and professional services, we actually put those services at risk, which was a huge consideration for me when voting. | |||
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"Where did the EU get the money from? There’s no EU money for projects or development. It is all taken from the members, and the UK was a net contributor. So to anyone who harps on about how much EU funding improved their community, let’s play a game where I play the EU: You give me a substantial amount of money to be part of the club. I will spend part of it on admin, part on unrelated projects, part on highly paid staff who don’t do much. I will decide what to spend the rest on, and give you the opportunity to bid for part of the money. If you bid you have to follow my rules, and you are bidding against all the other countries in the club. If you are successful and I give you some of your money back, you have to follow my rules on how you can spend it, including procurement rules which can’t favour local contractors. Perfect analogy. I don’t get what all the fuss is about with being in the EU…. Freedom of movement? Could still have that if both sides agreed. Free trade? Could still have that if both sides agreed. But free trade isn’t free trade if it costs billions to oversee. Once those are dealt with what’s left? Some vague idealistic notion that we’re better inside a club than outside but no quantifiable reason why. If I live alone I can watch whatever I want on TV. If I have 27 mates over, by the time we finally agree to watch some obscure Moldovan documentary with no subtitles about how the English are all bastards, it’s actually finished. The EU is no different to a trade association where the biggest benefit is telling non members that you’re a member. A financial black hole where all you seem to get for your money is people telling you what you can and can’t do. You can theoretically vitro proposals but if you ever do, you get asked why you want to be a member when you don’t agree with anything the French and Germans want to do. There’s a parliament with no actual powers, a court system with no actual power unless your government want to blindly follow their rulings as a get out of jail free card to never having to make their own decisions and stand by them. And if you don’t follow the rules made by unelected quangos on €250,000 a year, you get fined. But that only matters if you’re one of the country’s that don’t actually pay to be members because they can dock it off the money you get from the UK. But this debate is all irrelevant because there will never be another referendum in the UK. The government of the day will decide so expect to join in everything but name by the end of this parliament and Farage to undo all that after the next election. Hey ho This is not as straightforward as simply allowing freedom of movement and free trade, both come with policies and standards that need to be agreed by all. The benefits of being inside the bloc were tariff free trade, yes, there was an agreed standard that needed to be met but that is a safety net rather than a barrier that is put in place to prevent or hinder. I agree that bureaucracy within the bloc is cumbersome and tends to slow down change, but that is really no different to where we are today outside of the EU. The strength in the UK comes from finance and professional services, we actually put those services at risk, which was a huge consideration for me when voting." Agreed standards? That’s ridiculous mate. Most stuff we buy is made in the far east where there are no standards or made to British Standards. The stuff traded between us and the EU still has to meet their standards even tho we’re not officially in the EU. You see stuff all the time “not for EU” because it doesn’t meet their standards. Do you not buy stuff like that? Some people must or they wouldn’t be in business. If I own a company making kids toys, I can choose what standards to make them to. How thick the plastic or metal is, how reliable etc. as long as I meet safety standards, I’m good. If I can make a decent football for a quid less than every other company sells them for, and it’s not harmful, what’s the issue. If the product is rubbish nobody buys it and I go out of business. Or I can spend an extra £50k meeting EU regs with the same ball and have to charge the same price, or perhaps more. Regulation never reduces the cost of doing business, it increases costs and all that extra money goes on the wages of infrastructure of monitoring those regulations. It’s a self serving entity whose only purpose is to collect money. Most countries standard were based on British Standards but now those have been rebranded and despite being all but identical to British standards, you now have to meet EU standards if you want to sell to EU countries. If red tape and regulations were removed while still maintaining and monitoring standards through proper testing, stuff would cost less and everyone would have more money. This is why every government states “we’re gonna reduce red tape to stimulate growth” but they never do it cos they are too busy putting out fires or just too lazy. EU membership adds to red tape, it doesn’t reduce it. | |||
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"Where did the EU get the money from? There’s no EU money for projects or development. It is all taken from the members, and the UK was a net contributor. So to anyone who harps on about how much EU funding improved their community, let’s play a game where I play the EU: You give me a substantial amount of money to be part of the club. I will spend part of it on admin, part on unrelated projects, part on highly paid staff who don’t do much. I will decide what to spend the rest on, and give you the opportunity to bid for part of the money. If you bid you have to follow my rules, and you are bidding against all the other countries in the club. If you are successful and I give you some of your money back, you have to follow my rules on how you can spend it, including procurement rules which can’t favour local contractors. Perfect analogy. I don’t get what all the fuss is about with being in the EU…. Freedom of movement? Could still have that if both sides agreed. Free trade? Could still have that if both sides agreed. But free trade isn’t free trade if it costs billions to oversee. Once those are dealt with what’s left? Some vague idealistic notion that we’re better inside a club than outside but no quantifiable reason why. If I live alone I can watch whatever I want on TV. If I have 27 mates over, by the time we finally agree to watch some obscure Moldovan documentary with no subtitles about how the English are all bastards, it’s actually finished. The EU is no different to a trade association where the biggest benefit is telling non members that you’re a member. A financial black hole where all you seem to get for your money is people telling you what you can and can’t do. You can theoretically vitro proposals but if you ever do, you get asked why you want to be a member when you don’t agree with anything the French and Germans want to do. There’s a parliament with no actual powers, a court system with no actual power unless your government want to blindly follow their rulings as a get out of jail free card to never having to make their own decisions and stand by them. And if you don’t follow the rules made by unelected quangos on €250,000 a year, you get fined. But that only matters if you’re one of the country’s that don’t actually pay to be members because they can dock it off the money you get from the UK. But this debate is all irrelevant because there will never be another referendum in the UK. The government of the day will decide so expect to join in everything but name by the end of this parliament and Farage to undo all that after the next election. Hey ho This is not as straightforward as simply allowing freedom of movement and free trade, both come with policies and standards that need to be agreed by all. The benefits of being inside the bloc were tariff free trade, yes, there was an agreed standard that needed to be met but that is a safety net rather than a barrier that is put in place to prevent or hinder. I agree that bureaucracy within the bloc is cumbersome and tends to slow down change, but that is really no different to where we are today outside of the EU. The strength in the UK comes from finance and professional services, we actually put those services at risk, which was a huge consideration for me when voting." And freedom of movement can actually be very simple if you want it to be. Residency is a different matter. Quick example…. I have a mate who bought a run down villa in Portugal before we left the EU. He had a seasonal business so had quite a bit of free time. His Mrs is an Ofstead inspector so is paid a fortune and can work as much or as little as she wants. They used to go over there to renovate the property whenever they could and would spend the whole winter there. He now can’t do that. Why? Because two governments can’t talk to each other without a bunch of self serving bureaucrats being middle men. He wasn’t a security risk when he was an EU citizen so surely he’s not a security risk now? He doesn’t make any money in Portugal so he’s a net contributor to the local economy when he buys food and supplies. When he’s not there the house is empty so not buying energy or paying local taxes. In short, not only is it in his best interests to have free movement, it’s in Portugals best interests to. But the French, German and Belgian Eurocrats won’t allow it because they are not getting paid. There must be millions of people all over Europe from various countries in similar situations. Who is the EU helping? The organisation, not its members and not its people. Yet some undisclosed Afghan with no docs and no passport and not home and no money can just turn up and it’s fine. Whats the difference? The difference is honesty. Honesty is punished and scammers are rewarded. What a fantastic club to be a part of. | |||
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"Where did the EU get the money from? There’s no EU money for projects or development. It is all taken from the members, and the UK was a net contributor. So to anyone who harps on about how much EU funding improved their community, let’s play a game where I play the EU: You give me a substantial amount of money to be part of the club. I will spend part of it on admin, part on unrelated projects, part on highly paid staff who don’t do much. I will decide what to spend the rest on, and give you the opportunity to bid for part of the money. If you bid you have to follow my rules, and you are bidding against all the other countries in the club. If you are successful and I give you some of your money back, you have to follow my rules on how you can spend it, including procurement rules which can’t favour local contractors. Perfect analogy. I don’t get what all the fuss is about with being in the EU…. Freedom of movement? Could still have that if both sides agreed. Free trade? Could still have that if both sides agreed. But free trade isn’t free trade if it costs billions to oversee. Once those are dealt with what’s left? Some vague idealistic notion that we’re better inside a club than outside but no quantifiable reason why. If I live alone I can watch whatever I want on TV. If I have 27 mates over, by the time we finally agree to watch some obscure Moldovan documentary with no subtitles about how the English are all bastards, it’s actually finished. The EU is no different to a trade association where the biggest benefit is telling non members that you’re a member. A financial black hole where all you seem to get for your money is people telling you what you can and can’t do. You can theoretically vitro proposals but if you ever do, you get asked why you want to be a member when you don’t agree with anything the French and Germans want to do. There’s a parliament with no actual powers, a court system with no actual power unless your government want to blindly follow their rulings as a get out of jail free card to never having to make their own decisions and stand by them. And if you don’t follow the rules made by unelected quangos on €250,000 a year, you get fined. But that only matters if you’re one of the country’s that don’t actually pay to be members because they can dock it off the money you get from the UK. But this debate is all irrelevant because there will never be another referendum in the UK. The government of the day will decide so expect to join in everything but name by the end of this parliament and Farage to undo all that after the next election. Hey ho This is not as straightforward as simply allowing freedom of movement and free trade, both come with policies and standards that need to be agreed by all. The benefits of being inside the bloc were tariff free trade, yes, there was an agreed standard that needed to be met but that is a safety net rather than a barrier that is put in place to prevent or hinder. I agree that bureaucracy within the bloc is cumbersome and tends to slow down change, but that is really no different to where we are today outside of the EU. The strength in the UK comes from finance and professional services, we actually put those services at risk, which was a huge consideration for me when voting. Agreed standards? That’s ridiculous mate. Most stuff we buy is made in the far east where there are no standards or made to British Standards. The stuff traded between us and the EU still has to meet their standards even tho we’re not officially in the EU. You see stuff all the time “not for EU” because it doesn’t meet their standards. Do you not buy stuff like that? Some people must or they wouldn’t be in business. If I own a company making kids toys, I can choose what standards to make them to. How thick the plastic or metal is, how reliable etc. as long as I meet safety standards, I’m good. If I can make a decent football for a quid less than every other company sells them for, and it’s not harmful, what’s the issue. If the product is rubbish nobody buys it and I go out of business. Or I can spend an extra £50k meeting EU regs with the same ball and have to charge the same price, or perhaps more. Regulation never reduces the cost of doing business, it increases costs and all that extra money goes on the wages of infrastructure of monitoring those regulations. It’s a self serving entity whose only purpose is to collect money. Most countries standard were based on British Standards but now those have been rebranded and despite being all but identical to British standards, you now have to meet EU standards if you want to sell to EU countries. If red tape and regulations were removed while still maintaining and monitoring standards through proper testing, stuff would cost less and everyone would have more money. This is why every government states “we’re gonna reduce red tape to stimulate growth” but they never do it cos they are too busy putting out fires or just too lazy. EU membership adds to red tape, it doesn’t reduce it. " I'm not sure what the argument is here, there are trading standards and if those standards are not met the product wont be sold in that region or in this case bloc. If China can make the product cheaper and still be compliant, that will be down to local differences such as wages and material costs. However we slice up the pros and cons, we left a trading bloc that wasn't perfect and we will suffer from that in the short to midterm. It's what we do now that will shape the future, I'm not seeing any changes that make me feel seeds are being planted to fuel a successful economy in the longterm. | |||
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"It's what we do now that will shape the future, I'm not seeing any changes that make me feel seeds are being planted to fuel a successful economy in the longterm. " I agree 100% The separation was always going to be painful for both sides. Covid kinda killed the economy of all countries. We were starting to recover quite well but the conservatives infighting made them unelectable and the labour government who took over are more interested in increasing taxes on businesses and spending it on benefits, as well as increasing red tape, legislation and joining the EU. None of those things help the economy! Simply joining the EU again would just cost more money and give us more imports from the EU. And open up the door to the millions of migrants the EU are turning away to come here legally. Their big idea to solve problems is to increase taxes. They have an extra £20 million a day from VAT on diesel and rising, rolling into the treasury and they are not only not helping working people who are struggling to afford the fuel to get to work, they are giving it to people who don’t work through fuel subsidies. The only logic one can deduce from this is they think appealing to people on benefits will get them elected again. How does this help the country as a whole? A discount on gas when everyone is turning their heating off? Wow! That’s gonna help. And forcasts say an increase in the fuel cap of 18% is on the cards for the end of the summer. And the EU response to the current energy crisis? Buy more gas and diesel from Russia funding the Ukraine war so they have to send them more weapons and supplies costing more money leaving even less in the pot. It’s like our and EU politicians can only see one move ahead and are shocked when that move has the consequences everyone told them it would have but didn’t believe it. Stupidity leading the blind is the only way I can describe it. | |||
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"It's what we do now that will shape the future, I'm not seeing any changes that make me feel seeds are being planted to fuel a successful economy in the longterm. I agree 100% The separation was always going to be painful for both sides. Covid kinda killed the economy of all countries. We were starting to recover quite well but the conservatives infighting made them unelectable and the labour government who took over are more interested in increasing taxes on businesses and spending it on benefits, as well as increasing red tape, legislation and joining the EU. None of those things help the economy! Simply joining the EU again would just cost more money and give us more imports from the EU. And open up the door to the millions of migrants the EU are turning away to come here legally. Their big idea to solve problems is to increase taxes. They have an extra £20 million a day from VAT on diesel and rising, rolling into the treasury and they are not only not helping working people who are struggling to afford the fuel to get to work, they are giving it to people who don’t work through fuel subsidies. The only logic one can deduce from this is they think appealing to people on benefits will get them elected again. How does this help the country as a whole? A discount on gas when everyone is turning their heating off? Wow! That’s gonna help. And forcasts say an increase in the fuel cap of 18% is on the cards for the end of the summer. And the EU response to the current energy crisis? Buy more gas and diesel from Russia funding the Ukraine war so they have to send them more weapons and supplies costing more money leaving even less in the pot. It’s like our and EU politicians can only see one move ahead and are shocked when that move has the consequences everyone told them it would have but didn’t believe it. Stupidity leading the blind is the only way I can describe it. " Sadly for the EU (and Britain’s Labour) dealing with their nations’ problems would require them to accept that the policies they have been pursuing for decades (high benefits, high tax, high regulation, big government, uncontrolled immigration and cultural dilution) are actually the cause of their problems and not the solution. They clearly cannot ideologically do that so all they can do is carry on down the same path while things get slowly worse. I can’t see anything improving sadly, certainly not in the EU, unless there is some major financial meltdown or other disruptive event. The EU has spent decades cosplaying being a major global player and where are they in this current crisis? Invisible. They just pop up now and again to talk about “working on a toolbox”, “having a Zoom call with stakeholders”, “working at pace”. None of it adds up to a can of beans. Tragic. | |||
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"Sadly for the EU (and Britain’s Labour) dealing with their nations’ problems would require them to accept that the policies they have been pursuing for decades (high benefits, high tax, high regulation, big government, uncontrolled immigration and cultural dilution) are actually the cause of their problems and not the solution. They clearly cannot ideologically do that so all they can do is carry on down the same path while things get slowly worse. " A few decades ago a couple in the US, Ellen and James White, added up a few dates and events from the Bible and claimed to have worked out the date and location of the 2nd coming of Christ. They attracted a few followers and on the predicted date they all headed for the location. Of course the second coming didn’t happen. Dumbfounded they rechecked their calculations and found an error. Their followers didn’t reject them, in fact the number of followers increased despite their lack of success. On the new date they all headed off to welcome Jesus. But he didn’t show. So having a 100% failure record you’d think they would lose their following. But no, their followers doubled down and became even more convinced their leaders were right. Their following grew and grew despite their multiple failures and is now one of the largest Anglican churches in the world, The Seventh Day Aventists. Psychologists call this “attachment”. People become emotionally attached to their ideas to such a level, that no logical reasoning, no facts, no evidence to the contrary can sway them from thinking they are right. This is one of the psychological weapons that cults use to trap people. It is also used in interrogation to get prisoners of war to betray their country and their comrades. It’s theorised that it’s a form of mental self preservation. We all know how hard we often find it to admit that we were wrong to the people we love. It’s something we seldom do to strangers and it’s something that can be emotionally damaging to admit to yourself when it’s a belief you’ve been very passionate and vocal about. Especially if we’ve put it in writing, even if that writing is just a tick on a ballot slip. So we don’t do it. Our mind convinces us that it’s better to continue to be wrong than admit you were wrong. Socialism is a bit like that. It’s a very noble cause, helping others, the common good, all being equal and fair. So when people have clung to that ideology for a while, they find it almost impossible to let go, to admit that it might not be working. They cling to the tiniest hint of vindication while accusing non believers of being mean, heartless and selfish. They try as sway as many to their beliefs as possible under the logic of safety in numbers. If they can convince an undecided that they are right, then maybe they are right, even tho all the evidence points to them being wrong. They find comfort in their belief, rather than their reality. | |||
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"It's what we do now that will shape the future, I'm not seeing any changes that make me feel seeds are being planted to fuel a successful economy in the longterm. I agree 100% The separation was always going to be painful for both sides. Covid kinda killed the economy of all countries. We were starting to recover quite well but the conservatives infighting made them unelectable and the labour government who took over are more interested in increasing taxes on businesses and spending it on benefits, as well as increasing red tape, legislation and joining the EU. None of those things help the economy! Simply joining the EU again would just cost more money and give us more imports from the EU. And open up the door to the millions of migrants the EU are turning away to come here legally. Their big idea to solve problems is to increase taxes. They have an extra £20 million a day from VAT on diesel and rising, rolling into the treasury and they are not only not helping working people who are struggling to afford the fuel to get to work, they are giving it to people who don’t work through fuel subsidies. The only logic one can deduce from this is they think appealing to people on benefits will get them elected again. How does this help the country as a whole? A discount on gas when everyone is turning their heating off? Wow! That’s gonna help. And forcasts say an increase in the fuel cap of 18% is on the cards for the end of the summer. And the EU response to the current energy crisis? Buy more gas and diesel from Russia funding the Ukraine war so they have to send them more weapons and supplies costing more money leaving even less in the pot. It’s like our and EU politicians can only see one move ahead and are shocked when that move has the consequences everyone told them it would have but didn’t believe it. Stupidity leading the blind is the only way I can describe it. " Daily mail reader then. What utte nonsense. Labour are a right of centre party right now. And those with less money spend more into the economy. So if they have money, so do businesses. Unlike what the tories created, hell for all but the super rich chums. Destroyed the UK economy and jumped on US style policies of hate to distract. While stealing my kids EU birthright | |||
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"And those with less money spend more into the economy." How does that work? Is it only poor people that buy big houses and flashy cars, while the rich people spend less? "While stealing my kids EU birthright" If it can be taken away legally, it isn't a 'right'. | |||
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"It's what we do now that will shape the future, I'm not seeing any changes that make me feel seeds are being planted to fuel a successful economy in the longterm. I agree 100% The separation was always going to be painful for both sides. Covid kinda killed the economy of all countries. We were starting to recover quite well but the conservatives infighting made them unelectable and the labour government who took over are more interested in increasing taxes on businesses and spending it on benefits, as well as increasing red tape, legislation and joining the EU. None of those things help the economy! Simply joining the EU again would just cost more money and give us more imports from the EU. And open up the door to the millions of migrants the EU are turning away to come here legally. Their big idea to solve problems is to increase taxes. They have an extra £20 million a day from VAT on diesel and rising, rolling into the treasury and they are not only not helping working people who are struggling to afford the fuel to get to work, they are giving it to people who don’t work through fuel subsidies. The only logic one can deduce from this is they think appealing to people on benefits will get them elected again. How does this help the country as a whole? A discount on gas when everyone is turning their heating off? Wow! That’s gonna help. And forcasts say an increase in the fuel cap of 18% is on the cards for the end of the summer. And the EU response to the current energy crisis? Buy more gas and diesel from Russia funding the Ukraine war so they have to send them more weapons and supplies costing more money leaving even less in the pot. It’s like our and EU politicians can only see one move ahead and are shocked when that move has the consequences everyone told them it would have but didn’t believe it. Stupidity leading the blind is the only way I can describe it. Daily mail reader then. What utte nonsense. Labour are a right of centre party right now. And those with less money spend more into the economy. So if they have money, so do businesses. Unlike what the tories created, hell for all but the super rich chums. Destroyed the UK economy and jumped on US style policies of hate to distract. While stealing my kids EU birthright" I don’t read any newspapers either in print or online. I think the last time i skipped through the pages of a newspaper the internet hadn’t even been invented. One thing I have learned over the years tho is most people think their own views are fairly centrist in the grand scheme of things, regardless of what anyone else thinks. So any policy or party that is to the right of you in your opinion, is right wing. But let’s run through a few things that Labour has done that are absolutely not right wing policy…. Workers right bill Increasing taxes Increasing benefits spending Removing benefit caps Taking union bribes Getting funding from unions Wealth tax discussions Need i go on? | |||
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"It was a brilliant idea, to come out of the EU. Now we can't send back the illegal immigrants to France, like we could do when we were part of the EU." We couldn't send them back when we were part of the EU. And membership of the EU caused many more asylum seekers to arrive here. | |||
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"It was a brilliant idea, to come out of the EU. Now we can't send back the illegal immigrants to France, like we could do when we were part of the EU." See this claim all the time but it’s just not true. Once someone has claimed asylum, that county has to take care of them until their case is heard. Regardless of EU membership. The only possible difference to now would have been the ability to turn boats in international waters back to France, but this would have all but certainly violated UN charters of protecting life at sea. | |||
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