FabSwingers.com forum: Nottingham Attacks Inquiry

By (user no longer on site) OP
6 weeks ago

The current public inquiry into the murders of Barnaby Webber, Grace O'Malley-Kumar and Ian Coates by Valdo Calocane, and attacks on two others, is quite breathtaking in its revelations.

Literally every public service and agency failed and failed again, and then tried to cover up their failures.

The victims families have been repeatedly let down and lied to but have showed enormous dignity and perseverance in uncovering the truth.

Why do these failures by public services seem to happen over and over ? Is it management, staffing or funding ?

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By *estivalMan
6 weeks ago

borehamwood

"The current public inquiry into the murders of Barnaby Webber, Grace O'Malley-Kumar and Ian Coates by Valdo Calocane, and attacks on two others, is quite breathtaking in its revelations.

Literally every public service and agency failed and failed again, and then tried to cover up their failures.

The victims families have been repeatedly let down and lied to but have showed enormous dignity and perseverance in uncovering the truth.

Why do these failures by public services seem to happen over and over ? Is it management, staffing or funding ?

"
it happens because they know no one will lose there jobs and they will learn from there mistakes yada yada yada

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By *icecouple561Couple
Forum Mod
6 weeks ago

East Sussex

I suspect the reasons are multiple and varied but every organisation I have ever worked for has a culture where failure, lack of training and resources at the bottom is kept from upper management by middle management because of fear, targets and lack of transparency. Therefore the issues are never resolved until something awful happens and there's an 'inquiry'

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By (user no longer on site) OP
6 weeks ago

"I suspect the reasons are multiple and varied but every organisation I have ever worked for has a culture where failure, lack of training and resources at the bottom is kept from upper management by middle management because of fear, targets and lack of transparency. Therefore the issues are never resolved until something awful happens and there's an 'inquiry'"

Very interesting, thank you.

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By *iquanteMan
6 weeks ago

Birmingham

Sadly Britain is becoming a failed state.

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By (user no longer on site) OP
6 weeks ago

Former Chief Constable of Nottingham who admitted mistakes and resigned on health ground has miraculously recovered and has taken another top job reviewing serious cases ! 🤦‍♂️

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By (user no longer on site) OP
6 weeks ago

"Sadly Britain is becoming a failed state. "

In too many areas, yes.

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By (user no longer on site) OP
6 weeks ago

"The current public inquiry into the murders of Barnaby Webber, Grace O'Malley-Kumar and Ian Coates by Valdo Calocane, and attacks on two others, is quite breathtaking in its revelations.

Literally every public service and agency failed and failed again, and then tried to cover up their failures.

The victims families have been repeatedly let down and lied to but have showed enormous dignity and perseverance in uncovering the truth.

Why do these failures by public services seem to happen over and over ? Is it management, staffing or funding ?

it happens because they know no one will lose there jobs and they will learn from there mistakes yada yada yada"

Indeed.

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By (user no longer on site) OP
6 weeks ago

Nottingham police ‘too worried about being called racist to catch dangerous criminals’.......Emma Webber, whose 19-year-old son Barnaby was one of three people killed by Valdo Calocane, a paranoid schizophrenic, said officers were “spending far too much time worrying about discrimination and segregation and doing the wrong thing because somebody’s of a certain colour or certain religion”.

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By *oubleswing2019Man
6 weeks ago

Colchester

I have friends who work in these or allied services and when we meet for a drink in t'pub we like to discuss our work lives and pressures. (Blowing off steam, as they say).

It always boils down to funding.

Cut back after cut back results in less staff available to do the given role, and doubling and tripling of workloads for those left behind at the coal face.

Coupled with some on long term sick leave due to stress and burnout, and little fresh blood coming in to take up the case loads, increased cases of social disorder, and it's not hard to see that it's a powder keg, right across the country.

The staff are being failed, the people they are trying to support are being failed, and the people in government who manage these departments are failing those below them.

Is this by design? I'd like to think not, because it should be obvious to the well-to-do that if you don't fund the stressors in society and try to fix the issues, all you will do is bring about societal decline and collapse. Upon yourself.

Funding cuts hasten that inevitability.

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By (user no longer on site) OP
6 weeks ago

"I have friends who work in these or allied services and when we meet for a drink in t'pub we like to discuss our work lives and pressures. (Blowing off steam, as they say).

It always boils down to funding.

Cut back after cut back results in less staff available to do the given role, and doubling and tripling of workloads for those left behind at the coal face.

The staff are being failed, the people they are trying to support are being failed, and the people in government who manage these departments are failing those below them.

Funding cuts hasten that inevitability.

I think funding is a very handy excuse for incompetence tbh.

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By *oubleswing2019Man
6 weeks ago

Colchester

"I think funding is a very handy excuse for incompetence tbh."

That's a great soundbite. Short, punchy and to the point, and like all soundbites, collapses under the lightest of scrutiny.

If it were just incompetence, increasing caseloads, staff shortages, and burnout wouldn’t track so closely with years of funding cuts. You can’t remove resources and expect the same output—it’s a structural issue, not personal failings.

Incompetence doesn’t suddenly appear across an entire sector at the same time. Chronic underfunding, rising demand, and staff attrition do. That’s the difference.

Calling it "incompetence" is convenient because it avoids engaging with the actual problem. When workloads double and staffing drops, outcomes worsen—that’s not an excuse, it’s cause and effect.

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By (user no longer on site) OP
6 weeks ago

"I think funding is a very handy excuse for incompetence tbh.

That's a great soundbite. Short, punchy and to the point, and like all soundbites, collapses under the lightest of scrutiny.

Incompetence doesn’t suddenly appear across an entire sector at the same time. Chronic underfunding, rising demand, and staff attrition do. That’s the difference.

Calling it "incompetence" is convenient because it avoids engaging with the actual problem. When workloads double and staffing drops, outcomes worsen—that’s not an excuse, it’s cause and effect."

The Nottingham Inquiry shows personal failing after failing that have nothing to do with funding.

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By *l_xxxMan
6 weeks ago

South leeds

Agree with above. Whilst there is the lazy civil service culture and hard to whistleblow on that toxic attitude, fundamentally, it is individuals just simply not doing their job.

Lots of apologies and we should have done better. Why the hell doesnt anyone just pull their finger out and get it done? 2 reasons. Fear of the system saying shhhh, we don't do that. But also if you tell someone to work hard its met with bad attitude or sheer laziness.

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By *otMe66Man
6 weeks ago

Terra Firma

"I think funding is a very handy excuse for incompetence tbh.

That's a great soundbite. Short, punchy and to the point, and like all soundbites, collapses under the lightest of scrutiny.

Incompetence doesn’t suddenly appear across an entire sector at the same time. Chronic underfunding, rising demand, and staff attrition do. That’s the difference.

Calling it "incompetence" is convenient because it avoids engaging with the actual problem. When workloads double and staffing drops, outcomes worsen—that’s not an excuse, it’s cause and effect."

Your view seems to be missing real life meaning when the type of roles being brought into question are considered in the actual context of the inquiry. A police officer, social worker, doctor and any other that has an expected duty of care to perform, should perform that duty correctly every time.

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By *ingdomNightTimePleasuresMan
6 weeks ago

nearby

The inquiry heard that in 2020, mental health staff chose not to section him after a violent incident, partly due to research regarding the over-representation of young black men in detention. (Guardian)

Wft

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By (user no longer on site) OP
6 weeks ago

"The inquiry heard that in 2020, mental health staff chose not to section him after a violent incident, partly due to research regarding the over-representation of young black men in detention. (Guardian)

Wft

Incredible but true, and of course nothing to do with funding.

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By (user no longer on site) OP
6 weeks ago

There are multiple examples from this case where the police openly lied to the families and treated them worse than the murderer.

The idea this has anything to do with 'funding' is frankly an insult to those families.

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By (user no longer on site) OP
6 weeks ago

"Agree with above. Whilst there is the lazy civil service culture and hard to whistleblow on that toxic attitude, fundamentally, it is individuals just simply not doing their job.

My experience with most public services is that about 20% of staff are simply incompetent but impossible to remove. The other 80% get dragged down to their level or leave their jobs in frustration.

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By *oubleswing2019Man
6 weeks ago

Colchester

"I think funding is a very handy excuse for incompetence tbh.

That's a great soundbite. Short, punchy and to the point, and like all soundbites, collapses under the lightest of scrutiny.

Incompetence doesn’t suddenly appear across an entire sector at the same time. Chronic underfunding, rising demand, and staff attrition do. That’s the difference.

Calling it "incompetence" is convenient because it avoids engaging with the actual problem. When workloads double and staffing drops, outcomes worsen—that’s not an excuse, it’s cause and effect.

I think I made it very clear that I was talking about systemic funding across the nation. I was not referring to the specifics of whatever case was mentioned previously.

Of course, it's not just about funding, because there are other stressors involved as well in the bigger picture.

Take Essex for example.

2000-2010 : Growth in social care and expansion of services.

2010-2016 : 8% funding cut in services, whilst demand surged and costs increased.

2016+ : Recovery (£600 million /yr cost), but demand increased further, care complexity increased, workforce and provider costs have surged).

Essex is not an outlier county and this pattern is seen in other counties.

In summary, there are more elderly people, more complex needs, higher provider costs and workforce shortages.

Cold comfort I know to a specific investigation looking for answers, but it must be borne in mind that these factors are at play at a much higher level than just "incompetence", which was my original gripe.

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By (user no longer on site) OP
5 weeks ago

Nottingham University threw out murder victim Grace O’Malley Kumar’s most treasured possessions - including England Hockey and Club memorabilia as well as intimate keepsakes from her childhood - which her grieving family planned to give Grace’s closest friends to remember her by. :

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By *allySlinkyWoman
5 weeks ago

Leeds

I didn't know this. How devastating for the family.

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By (user no longer on site) OP
5 weeks ago

"I didn't know this. How devastating for the family. "

Unimaginable.

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By *ouple in LancashireCouple
5 weeks ago

in Lancashire

"I didn't know this. How devastating for the family. "

Another hurt they simply dont deserve, bloody awful thing for the University to do..

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By (user no longer on site) OP
3 weeks ago

Another litany of colossal public service sectors failings revealed by the Southport Inquiry today.

Heartbreaking for the families but will any lessons ever be learned ?

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By *ellhungvweMan
3 weeks ago

Cheltenham

"Another litany of colossal public service sectors failings revealed by the Southport Inquiry today.

Heartbreaking for the families but will any lessons ever be learned ? "

The one lesson that you can learn from inquiries is that the lessons will not be learned.

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By (user no longer on site) OP
3 weeks ago

"Another litany of colossal public service sectors failings revealed by the Southport Inquiry today.

Heartbreaking for the families but will any lessons ever be learned ?

The one lesson that you can learn from inquiries is that the lessons will not be learned."

This seems to be true but is there a way to break the pattern ? Surely improvements must be possible?

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By *ellhungvweMan
3 weeks ago

Cheltenham

"Another litany of colossal public service sectors failings revealed by the Southport Inquiry today.

Heartbreaking for the families but will any lessons ever be learned ?

The one lesson that you can learn from inquiries is that the lessons will not be learned.

This seems to be true but is there a way to break the pattern ? Surely improvements must be possible?"

Apparently not.

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By (user no longer on site) OP
3 weeks ago

"Another litany of colossal public service sectors failings revealed by the Southport Inquiry today.

Heartbreaking for the families but will any lessons ever be learned ?

The one lesson that you can learn from inquiries is that the lessons will not be learned.

This seems to be true but is there a way to break the pattern ? Surely improvements must be possible?

Apparently not."

I doubt that. There have been Inquiries which have led to real change and new legislation but the problem seems to lie within the modern day management culture of public services.

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By *ellhungvweMan
3 weeks ago

Cheltenham

"Another litany of colossal public service sectors failings revealed by the Southport Inquiry today.

Heartbreaking for the families but will any lessons ever be learned ?

The one lesson that you can learn from inquiries is that the lessons will not be learned.

This seems to be true but is there a way to break the pattern ? Surely improvements must be possible?

Apparently not.

I doubt that. There have been Inquiries which have led to real change and new legislation but the problem seems to lie within the modern day management culture of public services."

And that will be the problem here. My understanding of the inquiry outcomes is that interdepartmental communication didn’t happen. Basically people didn’t talk and information wasn’t shared. That’s a bureaucracy thing. You can’t legislate to make people talk when their budgets don’t want them to talk. Everyone knows they should talk. They didn’t then and they won’t now.

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By (user no longer on site) OP
3 weeks ago

"Another litany of colossal public service sectors failings revealed by the Southport Inquiry today.

Heartbreaking for the families but will any lessons ever be learned ?

The one lesson that you can learn from inquiries is that the lessons will not be learned.

This seems to be true but is there a way to break the pattern ? Surely improvements must be possible?

Apparently not.

I doubt that. There have been Inquiries which have led to real change and new legislation but the problem seems to lie within the modern day management culture of public services.

Good if disheartening point.

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By *oubleswing2019Man
3 weeks ago

Colchester

"My understanding of the inquiry outcomes is that interdepartmental communication didn’t happen. Basically people didn’t talk and information wasn’t shared. That’s a bureaucracy thing. You can’t legislate to make people talk when their budgets don’t want them to talk. Everyone knows they should talk. They didn’t then and they won’t now."

Department X have a remit for doing X out of their budget.

Department Y have a remit for doing Y out of their budget.

External contractor comes in and needs to do job. His job involves a little bit of Department X and a little bit of Department Y.

Who carries the budget cost for the contractor ?

Head of Dept X tells the contractor to speak to Dept Y. Head of Dept Y tells the contractor to speak to Dept X.

Inter-departmental impasse, essentially.

And woebetide any underling from X or Y who tries to get to the bottom of it all, sees the big picture, and tries to plot a course forward. Because I've seen such underlings get slapped down for meddling in other department's work. So they slink off in to the shadows and learn never to "interfere" ever again.

Seen this too many times over the years.

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