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"BBC News - Four ambulances set on fire in London in suspected antisemitic hate crime https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cwyj1p49gdpo Targeting ambulances of a volunteer organisation. Pretty pathetic. Certainly not as devastating as the recent murder of Jews, but ambulances should really be off-limits, even to militant bigots. Especially since they do not restrict their services at all based upon community membership." Disgusting scum | |||
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"I really don't understand what they would hope to achieve from this "Bigotry is usually about hate, not anything productive. Violence against Jews in the UK over the past fifty years had gone from being almost exclusively perpetrated by far right white men, to being almost evenly split between far right white men and Middle Eastern/South Asian men. In both cases, it's a case of a manifestation of a general bigotry against Jews emerging from very different elements within those cultures. Not about achieving anything, just hatred materialised. | |||
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"I really don't understand what they would hope to achieve from this "They want to kill Jews. | |||
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"I really don't understand what they would hope to achieve from this
Bigotry is usually about hate, not anything productive. Violence against Jews in the UK over the past fifty years had gone from being almost exclusively perpetrated by far right white men, to being almost evenly split between far right white men and Middle Eastern/South Asian men. In both cases, it's a case of a manifestation of a general bigotry against Jews emerging from very different elements within those cultures.
Not about achieving anything, just hatred materialised."I would say anti semitism in the West is now almost exclusively from the far left and the Muslim community. | |||
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" I would say anti semitism in the West is now almost exclusively from the far left and the Muslim community." Statistically, over the past year or so, it's a pretty even split. The very, very violent attacks, specifically murder or attempted murder, tend more towards Middle Eastern/South Asian. Religion is not captured in the statistics, but is heavily implied. Left/far left in the UK does feature, but not as prominently as far right. In the US, it features more - especially on campus. | |||
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"The two posts above are part of the overall picture, hatred and bigotry for Jews which goes back several centuries plus what some in the Jewish Community have perpetrated against the Palestinians since 1947 and in the West Bank has many similarities of ethnic cleansing.. The cycle goes on, driven by hatred and as usual innocents on all sides are involved.." These attacks were in North London, not Palestine. | |||
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" I would say anti semitism in the West is now almost exclusively from the far left and the Muslim community. Statistically, over the past year or so, it's a pretty even split. The very, very violent attacks, specifically murder or attempted murder, tend more towards Middle Eastern/South Asian. Religion is not captured in the statistics, but is heavily implied. Left/far left in the UK does feature, but not as prominently as far right. In the US, it features more - especially on campus." I think 'even split' is inaccurate. I can't remember the last serious anti semitic attack linked to the far right, but very serious attacks from other sources seem to be almost weekly occurrences. | |||
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" The police successfully foiled a major ISIS inspired terrorist plot to attack the Jewish community in Greater Manchester Walid Saadaoui and Amar Hussein convicted of preparing acts of terrorism at Preston Crown Court. Not hard to see who the potential suspects for this attack are, have a look down Finsbury Park or the nearest mosque " We shouldn’t jump to conclusions. Let justice take its course. Probably more likely to be some young Welsh lads who just haven’t had chance to watch Adolescence yet. | |||
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" The police successfully foiled a major ISIS inspired terrorist plot to attack the Jewish community in Greater Manchester Walid Saadaoui and Amar Hussein convicted of preparing acts of terrorism at Preston Crown Court. Not hard to see who the potential suspects for this attack are, have a look down Finsbury Park or the nearest mosque We shouldn’t jump to conclusions. Let justice take its course. Probably more likely to be some young Welsh lads who just haven’t had chance to watch Adolescence yet." I shouldn't laugh about such a serious subject but 🤭 | |||
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"I really don't understand what they would hope to achieve from this
They want to kill Jews."London Bridge attacks, 7/7 bombings, Manchester arena, London synagogue, all Islamic terror attacks. Victims of all race and colour. | |||
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"The two posts above are part of the overall picture, hatred and bigotry for Jews which goes back several centuries plus what some in the Jewish Community have perpetrated against the Palestinians since 1947 and in the West Bank has many similarities of ethnic cleansing.. The cycle goes on, driven by hatred and as usual innocents on all sides are involved.. These attacks were in North London, not Palestine. " Gee cheers for that incredible and illuminated contribution.. 
You missed out Russia where pogroms against Jewish people took place in the 1800s which i stated in my opening paragraph in your geographic corrections input..
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"I really don't understand what they would hope to achieve from this
They want to kill Jews.
London Bridge attacks, 7/7 bombings, Manchester arena, London synagogue, all Islamic terror attacks. Victims of all race and colour.
"For every one of those reprehensible acts of terrorism someone with the mindset who might think they're acceptable and revenge based can also list other dates and places where equally innocent people have been killed in Iraq, Afghanistan and now Iran.. Its a cycle of hatred and revenge as old as we as a species have been able to use sticks.. Difference now is we know its absolutely pointless and breeds more of the same.. | |||
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"I really don't understand what they would hope to achieve from this
They want to kill Jews.
London Bridge attacks, 7/7 bombings, Manchester arena, London synagogue, all Islamic terror attacks. Victims of all race and colour.
For every one of those reprehensible acts of terrorism someone with the mindset who might think they're acceptable and revenge based can also list other dates and places where equally innocent people have been killed in Iraq, Afghanistan and now Iran..
Its a cycle of hatred and revenge as old as we as a species have been able to use sticks..
Difference now is we know its absolutely pointless and breeds more of the same.."150,000-250,000 killed in Iraq by UK/USA intervention and another two million displaced 2 million displaced in Gaza, and 72,000 killed by Israel with USA supplied ordnance. Another 300,000 casualties and orphans. 1 million displaced in Lebanon 3 million + displaced in Iran with imminent threat of more Should we be surprised by four ambulances catching fire. Thankfully nobody killed or injured. | |||
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"I really don't understand what they would hope to achieve from this
They want to kill Jews.
London Bridge attacks, 7/7 bombings, Manchester arena, London synagogue, all Islamic terror attacks. Victims of all race and colour.
For every one of those reprehensible acts of terrorism someone with the mindset who might think they're acceptable and revenge based can also list other dates and places where equally innocent people have been killed in Iraq, Afghanistan and now Iran..
Its a cycle of hatred and revenge as old as we as a species have been able to use sticks..
Difference now is we know its absolutely pointless and breeds more of the same..
150,000-250,000 killed in Iraq by UK/USA intervention and another two million displaced
2 million displaced in Gaza, and 72,000 killed by Israel with USA supplied ordnance. Another 300,000 casualties and orphans.
1 million displaced in Lebanon
3 million + displaced in Iran with imminent threat of more
Should we be surprised by four ambulances catching fire. Thankfully nobody killed or injured. "Agreed 
Hopefully the charity will do a fundraising page thing, the contributors will possibly surprise some on here..
The Muslim Jewish forum in Manchester were on the local bbc news recently discussing when they have worked together ..
#moregoodthanbadinallcommunities..
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" Should we be surprised by four ambulances catching fire." No. From the article linked: "It’s a shock. But I can’t say no one was expecting it." | |||
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"Not hugely surprising. Anti semitism has been off the scale in the UK since October 7 2023. A more principled Government would have stamped down on it from the start but Labour has its voters to worry about so has allowed things to fester. Presumably a prime reason why it is desperately trying not to get “involved” in Iran, aside from not really having any military to engage anyway. That and the fear of some mini civil war in the UK if the Fifth Columnists kick off. " Labour literally faced revolt and widespread disgust from its members and the public at being complacent in a genocide against Gaza by Israel, but ok 👍 | |||
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"Given that nobody in power is trying to seperate the Jewish religion as a whole, from the evil Zionism that creates genocide and just supporting the Israeli government, you get these awful acts. We need decent people who can remove the link, make the criminals responsible for their crimes alone. Anti semitism has been around for millenia, the catholics hated on them, same with prodistants. In 1948 the UK was complicite in finish fascist work to remove Jews from Europe when Israel was created instead of dispelling hate. Farage has used anti semitic talk often. This is a problem nobody wants to solve, which like all hate, is wrong. " 100% | |||
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"If this is a targeted attack on Jews on account of the Palestine issue (which I understand isn't proven yet), surely the attackers should be charged for terrorism and given long sentences. Attacking ambulances is such a disgusting act." Didn’t the Jews attack Palestinian medics and murder them in Gaza, then buried the evidence and their vehicle to cover it up. What’s good for the goose… | |||
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"Not hugely surprising. Anti semitism has been off the scale in the UK since October 7 2023. A more principled Government would have stamped down on it from the start but Labour has its voters to worry about so has allowed things to fester. Presumably a prime reason why it is desperately trying not to get “involved” in Iran, aside from not really having any military to engage anyway. That and the fear of some mini civil war in the UK if the Fifth Columnists kick off. Labour literally faced revolt and widespread disgust from its members and the public at being complacent in a genocide against Gaza by Israel, but ok 👍" Labour members don’t like Israel. Pretty shocked by this news tbh given Labour’s history. | |||
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"Farage has used anti semitic talk often." Has he? Can you give us some quotes from his time as a politician? | |||
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"Not hugely surprising. Anti semitism has been off the scale in the UK since October 7 2023. A more principled Government would have stamped down on it from the start but Labour has its voters to worry about so has allowed things to fester. Presumably a prime reason why it is desperately trying not to get “involved” in Iran, aside from not really having any military to engage anyway. That and the fear of some mini civil war in the UK if the Fifth Columnists kick off. Labour literally faced revolt and widespread disgust from its members and the public at being complacent in a genocide against Gaza by Israel, but ok 👍 Labour members don’t like Israel. Pretty shocked by this news tbh given Labour’s history." Israel is a country run by zionists, it is not the complete Jewish faith all in one. You can hate Israel and support those Jewish with motality. You have to have low intelligence to keep thinking hating Israel is anti semitic. It is not | |||
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"You can hate Israel and support those Jewish with mo[r]ality. You have to have low intelligence to keep thinking hating Israel is anti semitic. It is not" That's not incorrect, necessarily. But it's like saying "I don't mind hiring blacks who are actually intelligent, but those African nations really need to get their corruption and stupid politicians under control." As soon as you qualify a group with "the good ones", you're getting awfully close to some unpleasant implications. Once upon a time, a "good" Jew was one who proved that they had assimilated and knew their place in the Western world. Now, it means one who proactively rejects Israel and Zionism. Can you even define Zionism? Because, on one level, it has been a persistent core belief of Jews since their expulsion from Israel. | |||
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"Anyway it’s doubtful the Jews have attacked their own ambulances. So enough about the Zionism, good Jews and bad Jews What c*nts torched the ambulances " The title says anti semitism, we are talking that subject. If you wish to just talk the criminals, make a new thread. I do wish we was talking just the individuals who created a crime, but the world is to far away from that sanity. Still to many idiots in charge Inflaming hate and murdering. | |||
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"If this is a targeted attack on Jews on account of the Palestine issue (which I understand isn't proven yet), surely the attackers should be charged for terrorism and given long sentences. Attacking ambulances is such a disgusting act. Didn’t the Jews attack Palestinian medics and murder them in Gaza, then buried the evidence and their vehicle to cover it up. What’s good for the goose…" Did the Jews in UK do it? Never heard of that. | |||
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"You can hate Israel and support those Jewish with mo[r]ality. You have to have low intelligence to keep thinking hating Israel is anti semitic. It is not That's not incorrect, necessarily. But it's like saying "I don't mind hiring blacks who are actually intelligent, but those African nations really need to get their corruption and stupid politicians under control." As soon as you qualify a group with "the good ones", you're getting awfully close to some unpleasant implications. Once upon a time, a "good" Jew was one who proved that they had assimilated and knew their place in the Western world. Now, it means one who proactively rejects Israel and Zionism. Can you even define Zionism? Because, on one level, it has been a persistent core belief of Jews since their expulsion from Israel." what utter crap you spout. Greater Israel is not a wish for many Jews. Orthodox Jews do not look to expel or murder, are they not Jewish? All this Jewish around the eodwho don't support Israel are called anti semitic. They are the opposite. They know genocide and never again is for all. Zionism is credited as becoming something defined in the 1920s. | |||
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"Probably turn out to be an insurance job." I hope you will apologise when that is proven to be incorrect. | |||
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"Given that nobody in power is trying to seperate the Jewish religion as a whole, from the evil Zionism that creates genocide and just supporting the Israeli government, you get these awful acts. We need decent people who can remove the link, make the criminals responsible for their crimes alone. Anti semitism has been around for millenia, the catholics hated on them, same with prodistants. In 1948 the UK was complicite in finish fascist work to remove Jews from Europe when Israel was created instead of dispelling hate. Farage has used anti semitic talk often. This is a problem nobody wants to solve, which like all hate, is wrong. " 'Evil zionism' | |||
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 ) and those supporting the Mad Mullahs. Who'd have thunk it? | |||
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"You can hate Israel and support those Jewish with mo[r]ality. You have to have low intelligence to keep thinking hating Israel is anti semitic. It is not That's not incorrect, necessarily. But it's like saying "I don't mind hiring blacks who are actually intelligent, but those African nations really need to get their corruption and stupid politicians under control." As soon as you qualify a group with "the good ones", you're getting awfully close to some unpleasant implications. Once upon a time, a "good" Jew was one who proved that they had assimilated and knew their place in the Western world. Now, it means one who proactively rejects Israel and Zionism. Can you even define Zionism? Because, on one level, it has been a persistent core belief of Jews since their expulsion from Israel. what utter crap you spout. Greater Israel is not a wish for many Jews. Orthodox Jews do not look to expel or murder, are they not Jewish? All this Jewish around the eodwho don't support Israel are called anti semitic. They are the opposite. They know genocide and never again is for all. Zionism is credited as becoming something defined in the 1920s. " Ah. So you have a specific definition of Zionism. That is specifically to do with murder. In that case, you'll find very few Jews who espouse that "Zionism". What is your definition? | |||
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"Probably turn out to be an insurance job. I hope you will apologise when that is proven to be incorrect." Why let the truth get in the way of a fabswingers comment. It seems to be par for the course recently. | |||
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"Probably turn out to be an insurance job. I hope you will apologise when that is proven to be incorrect." If it is an insurance job: Zionist Conspiracy If it isn’t an insurance job: Zionist Conspiracy I hear the government is paying for some new ambulances. This just proves what’s been said all along: Starmer is a Mossad agent. | |||
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"BBC News - Four ambulances set on fire in London in suspected antisemitic hate crime https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cwyj1p49gdpo Targeting ambulances of a volunteer organisation. Pretty pathetic. Certainly not as devastating as the recent murder of Jews, but ambulances should really be off-limits, even to militant bigots. Especially since they do not restrict their services at all based upon community membership." Absolutely disgraceful crime. To actually target not only Jewish people but Jewish people that were actively helping the community and helped the community as a whole regardless of religion. Women in the BBC was saying how quick they got to her elderly husband who had broken his leg and stranded. Those that attended to help were not interested in the people's religion, they were only interested in helping. Sadly such attacks are increasing | |||
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"1000 people crossed the Channel in last six days, many from some of the most anti semitic (and homophobic and sexist) countries on earth. Its time to call a National Security Emergency." "On the Brexit boats" | |||
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"Struggle to understand how anyone on whichever side of any debate would consider arson on an ambulance would be a good idea , some really sick mentality , , although some think it ok to attack doctors and nurses on a Saturday night after a skinful ,, these are the people we turn to when help is needed ,,got to admit my ignorance though , I had no knowledge of this organisation until this happened , " Arson is never a good idea whatever the reason, I've not seen anyone say it is/was but not read the whole thread tbh.. The problem being that such things, like hospitals used to be sacrosanct however we've seen Hamas build tunnels under and access them from hospitals and ambulances have been used to ferry terrorists hence they've been targeted by the IDF.. None of which justifies the attack on the charity who help anyone but for some because its Jewish that's enough.. Hopefully they'll be back on the run soonest and with better security.. | |||
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"Are we really surprised by this though? This government has done nothing to curb antisemitism as they do not want to offend their ever increasing voter base from a certain religion….." Collateral damage boundaries in war appear to have disappeared. Hamas using hospitals as bases/hiding. USA bombing an Iranian school. Israeli lavender system ignores civilians, Iran parking tanks in their hospital car parks. Russia bombing of Ukrainian maternity home in Sumy, and a children’s home in Mariupol. USA bombed a wedding party in Afghan. Casualty numbers dwarfed by USA/UK killing fields in Iraq. | |||
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"BBC ambulances should really be off-limits, even to militant bigots. Especially since they do not restrict their services at all based upon community membership." Nothing seems to be off-limits for Israel though, right? | |||
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"Has anyone claimed responsibility for this act?" Yes, a group called Harakat Ashab al-Yamin al-Islamiya. | |||
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"...but jumping straight to antisemitism just feeds a certain narrative." What narrative is that? | |||
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"BBC ambulances should really be off-limits, even to militant bigots. Especially since they do not restrict their services at all based upon community membership. Nothing seems to be off-limits for Israel though, right?" Grim  | |||
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"...but jumping straight to antisemitism just feeds a certain narrative. What narrative is that?" Any reply given would be declared antisemitic. No other interpretation no longer allowed. | |||
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"BBC ambulances should really be off-limits, even to militant bigots. Especially since they do not restrict their services at all based upon community membership. Nothing seems to be off-limits for Israel though, right?" Are you trying to equate a warzone and asymmetrical/military activity to a peaceful community in NW London? More importantly, you are introducing a completely different subject, trying to link it with "Jewish". Your underlying reason for doing that seems... Distasteful. | |||
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"...but jumping straight to antisemitism just feeds a certain narrative. What narrative is that? Any reply given would be declared antisemitic. No other interpretation no longer allowed." So long as it's within the forum rules, you should be good .
Otherwise you're hiding behind plausible deniability - come on out of the shadows. | |||
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"BBC ambulances should really be off-limits, even to militant bigots. Especially since they do not restrict their services at all based upon community membership. Nothing seems to be off-limits for Israel though, right? Are you trying to equate a warzone and asymmetrical/military activity to a peaceful community in NW London? More importantly, you are introducing a completely different subject, trying to link it with "Jewish". Your underlying reason for doing that seems... Distasteful." Which is the more heinous crime - burning a few ambulances or killing tens of thousands of women and children? | |||
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" Are you trying to equate a warzone and asymmetrical/military activity to a peaceful community in NW London? More importantly, you are introducing a completely different subject, trying to link it with "Jewish". Your underlying reason for doing that seems... Distasteful. Which is the more heinous crime - burning a few ambulances or killing tens of thousands of women and children? " Why are you even equating the two? | |||
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"It's not a difficult question, is it? You know which is worse But if you want to hand-wave it away on the basis of what some other people did who share their religion, then why can't I do the same?" Sorry, not understanding (genuinely) you'll need to be a little clearer? Why are you equating/comparing the two issues? | |||
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"It's really not that difficult to understand - is targeting someone simply on the basis of their religion a Bad Thing? Yes or No?" Yes. Hopefully that's a clear enough answer. Now to the other question: why would you compare (and minimise) the burning of ambulances in London with acts committed in a war? What is your point, in plain English? | |||
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"BBC ambulances should really be off-limits, even to militant bigots. Especially since they do not restrict their services at all based upon community membership. Nothing seems to be off-limits for Israel though, right? Are you trying to equate a warzone and asymmetrical/military activity to a peaceful community in NW London? More importantly, you are introducing a completely different subject, trying to link it with "Jewish". Your underlying reason for doing that seems... Distasteful. Which is the more heinous crime - burning a few ambulances or killing tens of thousands of women and children? " why set fire to ambulances in London when it's the Israeli goverment bombing gaza or are you lumping all Jewish people in with the goverment of Israel? | |||
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"BBC ambulances should really be off-limits, even to militant bigots. Especially since they do not restrict their services at all based upon community membership. Nothing seems to be off-limits for Israel though, right? Are you trying to equate a warzone and asymmetrical/military activity to a peaceful community in NW London? More importantly, you are introducing a completely different subject, trying to link it with "Jewish". Your underlying reason for doing that seems... Distasteful. Which is the more heinous crime - burning a few ambulances or killing tens of thousands of women and children? why set fire to ambulances in London when it's the Israeli goverment bombing gaza or are you lumping all Jewish people in with the goverment of Israel?" I think its clear what the poster thinks of Jewish people. | |||
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"It's not a difficult question, is it? You know which is worse But if you want to hand-wave it away on the basis of what some other people did who share their religion, then why can't I do the same?" It seems extremely clear from your post that you are antisemitic. There is a huge difference between the action against a Jewish charity that supports the whole community and a war against an Israeli government or state. Jews should have rights in this country....including the right to live in a safe environment. You clearly want to take the black shirt line. | |||
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"Struggle to understand how anyone on whichever side of any debate would consider arson on an ambulance would be a good idea , some really sick mentality , , although some think it ok to attack doctors and nurses on a Saturday night after a skinful ,, these are the people we turn to when help is needed ,,got to admit my ignorance though , I had no knowledge of this organisation until this happened , Arson is never a good idea whatever the reason, I've not seen anyone say it is/was but not read the whole thread tbh.. The problem being that such things, like hospitals used to be sacrosanct however we've seen Hamas build tunnels under and access them from hospitals and ambulances have been used to ferry terrorists hence they've been targeted by the IDF.. None of which justifies the attack on the charity who help anyone but for some because its Jewish that's enough.. Hopefully they'll be back on the run soonest and with better security.. "I wasn't suggesting anyone on here had said the arson was a good thing I was referring to those who carried out the attack who will hopefully be caught soon and jailed | |||
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"Struggle to understand how anyone on whichever side of any debate would consider arson on an ambulance would be a good idea , some really sick mentality , , although some think it ok to attack doctors and nurses on a Saturday night after a skinful ,, these are the people we turn to when help is needed ,,got to admit my ignorance though , I had no knowledge of this organisation until this happened , Arson is never a good idea whatever the reason, I've not seen anyone say it is/was but not read the whole thread tbh.. The problem being that such things, like hospitals used to be sacrosanct however we've seen Hamas build tunnels under and access them from hospitals and ambulances have been used to ferry terrorists hence they've been targeted by the IDF.. None of which justifies the attack on the charity who help anyone but for some because its Jewish that's enough.. Hopefully they'll be back on the run soonest and with better security..
I wasn't suggesting anyone on here had said the arson was a good thing I was referring to those who carried out the attack who will hopefully be caught soon and jailed
"I know you weren't.. | |||
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" It seems extremely clear from your post that you are antisemitic. " And there it is...just as expected. Any observation that Israel is a bad actor makes that person ANTISEMITIC. | |||
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" It seems extremely clear from your post that you are antisemitic. And there it is...just as expected. Any observation that Israel is a bad actor makes that person ANTISEMITIC. " The thread has nothing to do with Israel. | |||
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" It seems extremely clear from your post that you are antisemitic. And there it is...just as expected. Any observation that Israel is a bad actor makes that person ANTISEMITIC. The thread has nothing to do with Israel." However in a thread titled antisemitism etc whereby a vile arson attack took place upon a Jewish organisation/charity the link to the actions of the IDF etc will naturally develop.. Whilst we agree or not the perpetrators of the arson have issues with Israel and some of their actions in Gaza etc.. Ditto some hard line Zionists after (and since) used the terrorist attacks by Hamas from Gaza on Oct 7th as an opportunity to burn out Palestinians who have lived in the West Bank for centuries.. The cycle of violence is never going to end.. Without ever accepting that what 'they' whoever they are doing in the name of their 'cause' is right, understanding what their reasons are is possibly part of the solution as we've seen in South Africa and Northern Ireland.. | |||
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" It seems extremely clear from your post that you are antisemitic. And there it is...just as expected. Any observation that Israel is a bad actor makes that person ANTISEMITIC. " And there it is... You've cherry-picked a simple line to respond to, dodging the tough questions. | |||
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"Of course London Mayor Sadiq Khan has not been to visit the charity concerned.🤔" Maybe gesture politics is not the way to go. Standing around somewhere in Golders Green looking all concerned for the cameras might not be the best way to sort this problem out. | |||
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"Of course London Mayor Sadiq Khan has not been to visit the charity concerned.🤔 Maybe gesture politics is not the way to go. Standing around somewhere in Golders Green looking all concerned for the cameras might not be the best way to sort this problem out." I’m sure being surrounded by Jews makes most Labour politicians feel a bit queasy. | |||
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"The Jewish women, children and men affected by this heinous crime are British citizens, not Israeli." Ah...so there is a fundamental link between Israel and Judaism when it suits (hence ANTISEMITISM!!!), but no link when it doesn't suit. That's called selective outrage. Thanks for playing. | |||
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" I’m sure being surrounded by Jews makes most Labour politicians feel a bit queasy." Yeah - nothing says "serious political pount" quite like some casual prejudice. Unfortunately that says a lot more about you than it does about anyone else | |||
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"The Jewish women, children and men affected by this heinous crime are British citizens, not Israeli. Many Jews, possibly including many of those whose lives have been saved by these ambulances do not agree with Israel's actions, some do. This was a targeted racist attack on British citizens who happen to be Jewish, carried out on British soil. It was an attack on Judaism, not Israel, carried out by racist cowards. Anyone equating this to a war in the middle east is also a racist coward and has been reported. " Do you really believe that the arsonist didnt know that the Jewish charity they attacked are not Israeli? For them like anyone who sees only the religion, ethnicity or differences of those they seek to vent their hatred on they dont use logic.. Ditto as i said above that in the West Bank post Oct 7th the hard line Zionidts have vented their anger abd ethnically cleansed tge Palestinians who have lived there for centuries.. | |||
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"Seems like this thread is a new low for the Forum. 🤦♂️" Perhaps elaborate..? | |||
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" Do you really believe that the arsonist didnt know that the Jewish charity they attacked are not Israeli? " Why would you think I believe that? My money is on the peeps being some disgruntled Muslim lads trying their hand at "vengeance". Is it a stupid thing to do? Absolutely. Is it the equivalent of Kristallnacht? Nope. We live in a media landscape where the slaughter of thousands of innocent people is now so unremarkable that it barely gets reported, but a couple of burned out vehicles takes the front page. Quite how this crime is more worthy of the Daily Mail than all the other death and violence is beyond me. But I'll be all set for something about Madeleine McCann tomorrow | |||
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"Anyone who claims that there is no link between these crimes and Israel's actions is deluded. But hey, let's screetch ANTISEMITISM instead " Will you make the same statement if someone attacks Muslims in UK for the actions of Saudi or Iran? | |||
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" Do you really believe that the arsonist didnt know that the Jewish charity they attacked are not Israeli? Why would you think I believe that? My money is on the peeps being some disgruntled Muslim lads trying their hand at "vengeance". Is it a stupid thing to do? Absolutely. Is it the equivalent of Kristallnacht? Nope. We live in a media landscape where the slaughter of thousands of innocent people is now so unremarkable that it barely gets reported, but a couple of burned out vehicles takes the front page. Quite how this crime is more worthy of the Daily Mail than all the other death and violence is beyond me. But I'll be all set for something about Madeleine McCann tomorrow " What is this slaughter of thousands of innocent people that you think isn’t being reported? | |||
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"It is a universal constant that racists will always out themselves as complete thickos "Indeed | |||
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"Anyone who claims that there is no link between these crimes and Israel's actions is deluded. But hey, let's screetch ANTISEMITISM instead Will you make the same statement if someone attacks Muslims in UK for the actions of Saudi or Iran?" Or even attacks Muslims for the actions of jihadi terrorist groups. Would you argue that it's not anti-Muslim sentiment, or Islamaphobia? | |||
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" Do you really believe that the arsonist didnt know that the Jewish charity they attacked are not Israeli? Why would you think I believe that? My money is on the peeps being some disgruntled Muslim lads trying their hand at "vengeance". Is it a stupid thing to do? Absolutely. Is it the equivalent of Kristallnacht? Nope. We live in a media landscape where the slaughter of thousands of innocent people is now so unremarkable that it barely gets reported, but a couple of burned out vehicles takes the front page. Quite how this crime is more worthy of the Daily Mail than all the other death and violence is beyond me. But I'll be all set for something about Madeleine McCann tomorrow " I didnt say that to you.. Having said that I agree that its either someone who thinks it will help others in far away places when it won't.. Utterly senseless attack upon people doing good for all.. | |||
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" Do you really believe that the arsonist didnt know that the Jewish charity they attacked are not Israeli? Why would you think I believe that? My money is on the peeps being some disgruntled Muslim lads trying their hand at "vengeance". Is it a stupid thing to do? Absolutely. Is it the equivalent of Kristallnacht? Nope. We live in a media landscape where the slaughter of thousands of innocent people is now so unremarkable that it barely gets reported, but a couple of burned out vehicles takes the front page. Quite how this crime is more worthy of the Daily Mail than all the other death and violence is beyond me. But I'll be all set for something about Madeleine McCann tomorrow I didnt say that to you.. Having said that I agree that its either someone who thinks it will help others in far away places when it won't.. " So a misguided act of charity then ? | |||
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" Do you really believe that the arsonist didnt know that the Jewish charity they attacked are not Israeli? Why would you think I believe that? My money is on the peeps being some disgruntled Muslim lads trying their hand at "vengeance". Is it a stupid thing to do? Absolutely. Is it the equivalent of Kristallnacht? Nope. We live in a media landscape where the slaughter of thousands of innocent people is now so unremarkable that it barely gets reported, but a couple of burned out vehicles takes the front page. Quite how this crime is more worthy of the Daily Mail than all the other death and violence is beyond me. But I'll be all set for something about Madeleine McCann tomorrow I didnt say that to you.. Having said that I agree that its either someone who thinks it will help others in far away places when it won't.. So a misguided act of charity then ? " I won't say what type of person in my opinion thinks arson has anything to do with any charity.. | |||
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"Anyone who claims that there is no link between these crimes and Israel's actions is deluded. But hey, let's screetch ANTISEMITISM instead Will you make the same statement if someone attacks Muslims in UK for the actions of Saudi or Iran? Or even attacks Muslims for the actions of jihadi terrorist groups. Would you argue that it's not anti-Muslim sentiment, or Islamaphobia?" Despite the many terrorist attacks by Muslims in the name of Islam that have taken place in Britain I'm not aware on any serious reprisals against the Muslim community, and rightly so. Yet the attacks against British Jews seem endless, like the hate marches. | |||
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" It seems extremely clear from your post that you are antisemitic. And there it is...just as expected. Any observation that Israel is a bad actor makes that person ANTISEMITIC. " More to the point, anyone who actually believes that the attack on a Jewish charity should somehow be linked to Israeli actions is obviously equating the two concepts of Jewish existence and the actions of an independent state due to an un-conscious bias. | |||
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"Anyone who claims that there is no link between these crimes and Israel's actions is deluded. But hey, let's screetch ANTISEMITISM instead Will you make the same statement if someone attacks Muslims in UK for the actions of Saudi or Iran? Or even attacks Muslims for the actions of jihadi terrorist groups. Would you argue that it's not anti-Muslim sentiment, or Islamaphobia? Despite the many terrorist attacks by Muslims in the name of Islam that have taken place in Britain I'm not aware on any serious reprisals against the Muslim community, and rightly so. Yet the attacks against British Jews seem endless, like the hate marches." Sadly it's become all to common. I understand that 2 suspects have been arrested so 1 more to find. On a positive side it's heartwarming that these volunteer ambulances exist in the first place and help the local community. It shows that people of different faiths can not only get along but actively help each other | |||
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" It seems extremely clear from your post that you are antisemitic. And there it is...just as expected. Any observation that Israel is a bad actor makes that person ANTISEMITIC. More to the point, anyone who actually believes that the attack on a Jewish charity should somehow be linked to Israeli actions is obviously equating the two concepts of Jewish existence and the actions of an independent state due to an un-conscious bias." Indeed. | |||
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" Despite the many terrorist attacks by Muslims in the name of Islam that have taken place in Britain I'm not aware on any serious reprisals against the Muslim community, and rightly so. Yet the attacks against British Jews seem endless, like the hate marches." Finsbury Park Attack (June 2017) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2017_Finsbury_Park_van_attack "Osborne turned against Muslims in the wake of the London Bridge attack on 3 June 2017." | |||
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"On a positive side it's heartwarming that these volunteer ambulances exist in the first place and help the local community. It shows that people of different faiths can not only get along but actively help each other"
There are many multi faiths groups across the country who do good in their communities for everyone..
They are often ignored by certain media and some of those in politics who seek to divide.. | |||
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" Despite the many terrorist attacks by Muslims in the name of Islam that have taken place in Britain I'm not aware on any serious reprisals against the Muslim community, and rightly so. Yet the attacks against British Jews seem endless, like the hate marches. Finsbury Park Attack (June 2017) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2017_Finsbury_Park_van_attack "Osborne turned against Muslims in the wake of the London Bridge attack on 3 June 2017."" As always you're right TM. | |||
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"On a positive side it's heartwarming that these volunteer ambulances exist in the first place and help the local community. It shows that people of different faiths can not only get along but actively help each other
There are many multi faiths groups across the country who do good in their communities for everyone..
They are often ignored by certain media and some of those in politics who seek to divide.."It's good to know, especially about this ambulance scheme and hopefully more like it | |||
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"On a positive side it's heartwarming that these volunteer ambulances exist in the first place and help the local community. It shows that people of different faiths can not only get along but actively help each other
There are many multi faiths groups across the country who do good in their communities for everyone..
They are often ignored by certain media and some of those in politics who seek to divide..
It's good to know, especially about this ambulance scheme and hopefully more like it" | |||
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"Reported today Israel using white phosphorus over residential areas in south Lebanon. Can’t see four torched ambulances being the end of this. " Careful - the antisemitic police will get you. | |||
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"Reported today Israel using white phosphorus over residential areas in south Lebanon. Can’t see four torched ambulances being the end of this. Careful - the antisemitic police will get you." Who are the antisemitic police? | |||
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"The key point people always get wrong about Israel and anti semitism is that people don't dislike Jews because of Israel, they hate Israel because they dislike Jews." Wrong.. (Again) | |||
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"The key point people always get wrong about Israel and anti semitism is that people don't dislike Jews because of Israel, they hate Israel because they dislike Jews. Wrong.. (Again) "You might be right. But would you agree that Israel seems to attract a disproportionate amount of hatred compared to its relative "evil", and would you agree that Jews seem to get a disproportionate amount of hatred compared to almost every other religion and race? (Separate questions) Per capita, only Transgender and LGBTQ hate crimes exceed antisemitic hate crimes. (Census & Home Office figures) | |||
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"The key point people always get wrong about Israel and anti semitism is that people don't dislike Jews because of Israel, they hate Israel because they dislike Jews. Wrong.. (Again)
You might be right.
But would you agree that Israel seems to attract a disproportionate amount of hatred compared to its relative "evil", and would you agree that Jews seem to get a disproportionate amount of hatred compared to almost every other religion and race? (Separate questions)
Per capita, only Transgender and LGBTQ hate crimes exceed antisemitic hate crimes. (Census & Home Office figures)"To paraphrase Mrs Merton, 'what is it about these incredibly clever and successful people that first caused you to hate them ?' | |||
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"The key point people always get wrong about Israel and anti semitism is that people don't dislike Jews because of Israel, they hate Israel because they dislike Jews. Wrong.. (Again)
You might be right.
But would you agree that Israel seems to attract a disproportionate amount of hatred compared to its relative "evil", and would you agree that Jews seem to get a disproportionate amount of hatred compared to almost every other religion and race? (Separate questions)
Per capita, only Transgender and LGBTQ hate crimes exceed antisemitic hate crimes. (Census & Home Office figures)"Tbh, I will accept what you are saying because my knowledge isn't as up to date as your own but yes historically Jews have often been scapegoated as an easy target.. Edward 1st, 'longshanks' was the first Monarch in Europe to rule that Jews essentially because they were the only ones who could lend money should be expelled and their property taken.. What Tall is saying is not logical however.. I can hate the massacres carried out by some hard line Zionists since 1947 but not hate Jewish people and ditto having stood at Bergen Belsen hated those who carried out those crimes but not the guy at the entrance nor the Germans who we knew from living in the country.. | |||
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"The key point people always get wrong about Israel and anti semitism is that people don't dislike Jews because of Israel, they hate Israel because they dislike Jews. Wrong.. (Again)
You might be right.
But would you agree that Israel seems to attract a disproportionate amount of hatred compared to its relative "evil", and would you agree that Jews seem to get a disproportionate amount of hatred compared to almost every other religion and race? (Separate questions)
Per capita, only Transgender and LGBTQ hate crimes exceed antisemitic hate crimes. (Census & Home Office figures)"Unfortunately this antisemitism is not new and been going on long before this war. Remember the horrors on the beach in Australia, people being gunned down for their faith. Even here in the UK, as well as the increasing violent crime, the police and council made things up to get an Israeli football teams supporters excluded to panda to another group. | |||
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" I can hate the massacres carried out by some hard line Zionists since 1947 but not hate Jewish people... " Totally agree. What some West Bank settlers do to Palestinians is terrorism, and the Israeli government should apprehend and execute those who murder. " and ditto having stood at Bergen Belsen hated those who carried out those crimes but not the guy at the entrance nor the Germans who we knew from living in the country.." Also agreed. But it's interesting that you use the term "Zionists", even with the qualifier "hard line". A poster further up seemed to describe "Zionism" as... Well, he didn't even actually define it, but it seemed to mean "murderous, land-stealing, evil Jews". Zionism is a spectrum of thought that had existed (in some form) since Jews were expelled from Judaea and yearned to return. It has many flavours - secular, religious, theoretical, urgent & practical, violent and pacifist. The word "Zion" had appeared in Jewish daily prayer multiple times per day for ~2000 years, and the words "next year in Jerusalem" have been declared at weddings and other occasions since then. The issue is that, by definition, all religious, and many non-religious Jews fit *some* definition of Zionist. The poster above used the term without qualifier to simply mean "the bad kind of Jew". Many others mean "people who believe that Jews should live in Israel". Some mean "European colonialists who cosplay as Jews". It's an imprecise term, that overlaps and shifts its way to mean "Jews" because, generally speaking, a majority of the world's Jews have some kind of connection with Israel, be it family, community or ideologically. If a Jewish community donates to any Israeli charity fund, then according to one way of thinking, it makes them complicit in genocide. Then, bingo - most Jews become tacit Zionists and fair game. This was the convoluted logic used by the group who claimed responsibility for the attack on the ambulances - that the synagogue next door had some obscure (unspecified) connection with Israel, which justified this attack. | |||
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"There are many non Jewish Zionists. I am certainly one." Indeed there are! It's a belief, creed or position, not an entity or inherited condition. | |||
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"There are many non Jewish Zionists. I am certainly one. Indeed there are! It's a belief, creed or position, not an entity or inherited condition." My favourite voice of readon on here, once again you have been so thoughtful, balanced and sincere on this topic, I am truly in awe of your depth of knowledge but mostly the empathy you show to all sides, Mrs x | |||
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"There are many non Jewish Zionists. I am certainly one. Indeed there are! It's a belief, creed or position, not an entity or inherited condition.My favourite voice of readon on here, once again you have been so thoughtful, balanced and sincere on this topic, I am truly in awe of your depth of knowledge but mostly the empathy you show to all sides, Mrs x" Thank you very much! Nice to have you back. | |||
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"There are many non Jewish Zionists. I am certainly one. Indeed there are! It's a belief, creed or position, not an entity or inherited condition.My favourite voice of readon on here, once again you have been so thoughtful, balanced and sincere on this topic, I am truly in awe of your depth of knowledge but mostly the empathy you show to all sides, Mrs x" 🫡 | |||
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"Reason not readon, whatever that is haha, Mrs x" Wasn't Ray Readon a Snooker player? | |||
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"Reason not readon, whatever that is haha, Mrs x Wasn't Ray Readon a Snooker player? "Sadly I'm old enough to remember him and he was Reardon not Readon, apparently he was a good snooker player but I wouldn't know, its not the kind of game I like to play with balls, Mrs x  | |||
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" I can hate the massacres carried out by some hard line Zionists since 1947 but not hate Jewish people... Totally agree. What some West Bank settlers do to Palestinians is terrorism, and the Israeli government should apprehend and execute those who murder. and ditto having stood at Bergen Belsen hated those who carried out those crimes but not the guy at the entrance nor the Germans who we knew from living in the country.. Also agreed. But it's interesting that you use the term "Zionists", even with the qualifier "hard line". A poster further up seemed to describe "Zionism" as... Well, he didn't even actually define it, but it seemed to mean "murderous, land-stealing, evil Jews". Zionism is a spectrum of thought that had existed (in some form) since Jews were expelled from Judaea and yearned to return. It has many flavours - secular, religious, theoretical, urgent & practical, violent and pacifist. The word "Zion" had appeared in Jewish daily prayer multiple times per day for ~2000 years, and the words "next year in Jerusalem" have been declared at weddings and other occasions since then. The issue is that, by definition, all religious, and many non-religious Jews fit *some* definition of Zionist. The poster above used the term without qualifier to simply mean "the bad kind of Jew". Many others mean "people who believe that Jews should live in Israel". Some mean "European colonialists who cosplay as Jews". It's an imprecise term, that overlaps and shifts its way to mean "Jews" because, generally speaking, a majority of the world's Jews have some kind of connection with Israel, be it family, community or ideologically. If a Jewish community donates to any Israeli charity fund, then according to one way of thinking, it makes them complicit in genocide. Then, bingo - most Jews become tacit Zionists and fair game. This was the convoluted logic used by the group who claimed responsibility for the attack on the ambulances - that the synagogue next door had some obscure (unspecified) connection with Israel, which justified this attack." Again being honest my use of the word is overly simplistic i would admit, I associate it with those who believe the land of Isreal is only for the Jews and will try to achieve that by whatever means.. I know that not all who aware that view agree with the same methods of the hard liners.. Thanks for the clarification.. | |||
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"There are many non Jewish Zionists. I am certainly one. Indeed there are! It's a belief, creed or position, not an entity or inherited condition.My favourite voice of readon on here, once again you have been so thoughtful, balanced and sincere on this topic, I am truly in awe of your depth of knowledge but mostly the empathy you show to all sides, Mrs x" I would also associate myself with that.. | |||
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"I really don't understand what they would hope to achieve from this
Bigotry is usually about hate, not anything productive. Violence against Jews in the UK over the past fifty years had gone from being almost exclusively perpetrated by far right white men, to being almost evenly split between far right white men and Middle Eastern/South Asian men. In both cases, it's a case of a manifestation of a general bigotry against Jews emerging from very different elements within those cultures.
Not about achieving anything, just hatred materialised.
I would say anti semitism in the West is now almost exclusively from the far left and the Muslim community."Do you know that thing we say about jumping to conclusions…. What do we think now that the two men bailed out for this incident look to be “white men of British origin” Also it looks as if the charges have been downgraded from terror and hate crime related to just plain old arson So does “p” owe a community an apology? Will it be heartfelt? | |||
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"I really don't understand what they would hope to achieve from this
Bigotry is usually about hate, not anything productive. Violence against Jews in the UK over the past fifty years had gone from being almost exclusively perpetrated by far right white men, to being almost evenly split between far right white men and Middle Eastern/South Asian men. In both cases, it's a case of a manifestation of a general bigotry against Jews emerging from very different elements within those cultures.
Not about achieving anything, just hatred materialised.
I would say anti semitism in the West is now almost exclusively from the far left and the Muslim community.
Do you know that thing we say about jumping to conclusions…. What do we think now that the two men bailed out for this incident look to be “white men of British origin”
Also it looks as if the charges have been downgraded from terror and hate crime related to just plain old arson
So does “p” owe a community an apology? Will it be heartfelt? "I think your logic radar is on the blink this morning Fabs ! | |||
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"I really don't understand what they would hope to achieve from this
Bigotry is usually about hate, not anything productive. Violence against Jews in the UK over the past fifty years had gone from being almost exclusively perpetrated by far right white men, to being almost evenly split between far right white men and Middle Eastern/South Asian men. In both cases, it's a case of a manifestation of a general bigotry against Jews emerging from very different elements within those cultures.
Not about achieving anything, just hatred materialised.
I would say anti semitism in the West is now almost exclusively from the far left and the Muslim community.
Do you know that thing we say about jumping to conclusions…. What do we think now that the two men bailed out for this incident look to be “white men of British origin”
Also it looks as if the charges have been downgraded from terror and hate crime related to just plain old arson
So does “p” owe a community an apology? Will it be heartfelt? "No, he doesn't (specifically for the arson incident). Because the group who claimed responsibility do fit "a community", which is the only information so far known... Unless you have access to something that the media hasn't released - from where did you get the intel that those arrested were white? Furthermore, Iran had recently been using criminal networks (no specific ethnicity or ideology) and if as police suspected, it might be linked with other Iranian terrorist attacks against Jewish interests throughout the Western world, in the event that they are, indeed, white, it would not necessarily that the source was not, for example, Iran. You might be right, but it's unclear how you reach such a confident conclusion at this point in time. | |||
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"I really don't understand what they would hope to achieve from this
Bigotry is usually about hate, not anything productive. Violence against Jews in the UK over the past fifty years had gone from being almost exclusively perpetrated by far right white men, to being almost evenly split between far right white men and Middle Eastern/South Asian men. In both cases, it's a case of a manifestation of a general bigotry against Jews emerging from very different elements within those cultures.
Not about achieving anything, just hatred materialised.
I would say anti semitism in the West is now almost exclusively from the far left and the Muslim community.
Do you know that thing we say about jumping to conclusions…. What do we think now that the two men bailed out for this incident look to be “white men of British origin”
Also it looks as if the charges have been downgraded from terror and hate crime related to just plain old arson
So does “p” owe a community an apology? Will it be heartfelt? "Fake News! | |||
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"Journalists from Al Jazeera were forced to abandon reporting in North London after being harassed and intimidated by a hostile crowd while covering an arson attack on Jewish community ambulances, as police intervened to contain the situation. Videos circulating online show a group of men surrounding the crew, shouting "go home" and "Al Jazeera off our streets", in scenes that highlight growing hostility towards journalists in the UK carrying out their work. I tried to Google this to see if any British media outlets were reporting on this, and zilch, zero." Hope they checked the 'journalists' for petrol and matches. | |||
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"Journalists from Al Jazeera were forced to abandon reporting in North London after being harassed and intimidated by a hostile crowd while covering an arson attack on Jewish community ambulances, as police intervened to contain the situation. Videos circulating online show a group of men surrounding the crew, shouting "go home" and "Al Jazeera off our streets", in scenes that highlight growing hostility towards journalists in the UK carrying out their work. I tried to Google this to see if any British media outlets were reporting on this, and zilch, zero." And you're posting this non sequitur here to what end? If you're referring to Al Jazeera in its antisemitic capacity (going by the thread theme), then yes - there will be antipathy due to that, despite them taking down content and apologising after immense pressure and backlash (generally their Arabic content is more overtly antisemitic, especially where they platform hard-line clerics from the region). Also, perhaps ask why they're persona non grata in Egypt, Saudi Arabia, UAE and Israel - like RT they push a highly political agenda; perhaps it was Egyptians shouting at them? Or others at odds with the political machinations of Qatar? | |||
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" I tried to Google this to see if any British media outlets were reporting on this, and zilch, zero. " Covered by BBC, Guardian, Evening Standard and international media. | |||
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"Telegraph report: Green Party activists have described Jewish people as “an abomination to this planet” in a string of anti-Semitic WhatsApp messages." Delightful people. They are like the labour party on steroids. Still it's not Farage so not a problem | |||
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"Telegraph report: Green Party activists have described Jewish people as “an abomination to this planet” in a string of anti-Semitic WhatsApp messages." Probably time the Green Party renamed itself as they’ve long given up on “Green” issues. | |||
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"Telegraph report: Green Party activists have described Jewish people as “an abomination to this planet” in a string of anti-Semitic WhatsApp messages." Also the conversation said the quiet part loud - Using "zionists" instead of "Jews" to avoid being called antisemitic. | |||
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"Telegraph report: Green Party activists have described Jewish people as “an abomination to this planet” in a string of anti-Semitic WhatsApp messages. Also the conversation said the quiet part loud - Using "zionists" instead of "Jews" to avoid being called antisemitic." These days whenever someone starts ranting about zionists it's pretty safe to assume their real intentions. | |||
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"Imagine a world without religion " Anti semitism is not about religion. | |||
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"Imagine a world without religion " What has religion got to do with people hating each other because they are different? Those same people would find another banner to hate under. | |||
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"Imagine a world without religion What has religion got to do with people hating each other because they are different? Those same people would find another banner to hate under." They don't hate each other because they are different. People of different races cultures and religions have lived together happily for centuries in places like Iraq and all over the Middle East , and still so in many places - UAE is a good example. Western meddling created the kinds of problems we see today. Palestinians vs Jews, Irish Catholics versus Protestants, both these conflicts have/had nothing to do with religion, culture or ethnicity. | |||
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"I really don't understand what they would hope to achieve from this
Bigotry is usually about hate, not anything productive. Violence against Jews in the UK over the past fifty years had gone from being almost exclusively perpetrated by far right white men, to being almost evenly split between far right white men and Middle Eastern/South Asian men. In both cases, it's a case of a manifestation of a general bigotry against Jews emerging from very different elements within those cultures.
Not about achieving anything, just hatred materialised.
I would say anti semitism in the West is now almost exclusively from the far left and the Muslim community.
Do you know that thing we say about jumping to conclusions…. What do we think now that the two men bailed out for this incident look to be “white men of British origin”
Also it looks as if the charges have been downgraded from terror and hate crime related to just plain old arson
So does “p” owe a community an apology? Will it be heartfelt?
No, he doesn't (specifically for the arson incident). Because the group who claimed responsibility do fit "a community", which is the only information so far known... Unless you have access to something that the media hasn't released - from where did you get the intel that those arrested were white? Furthermore, Iran had recently been using criminal networks (no specific ethnicity or ideology) and if as police suspected, it might be linked with other Iranian terrorist attacks against Jewish interests throughout the Western world, in the event that they are, indeed, white, it would not necessarily that the source was not, for example, Iran.
You might be right, but it's unclear how you reach such a confident conclusion at this point in time."@Fabio - now that you've weighed in on bringing race/colour/ethnicity into the discussion, would you care to comment on the three new arrests of younger, perhaps not so white, suspects? | |||
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" @Fabio - now that you've weighed in on bringing race/colour/ethnicity into the discussion, would you care to comment on the three new arrests of younger, perhaps not so white, suspects?" Although the Met Police disclose nationality, BBC/Independent choose to either omit it altogether, or say "British" (at this point in time). Guardian has not yet picked up the story. https://news.met.police.uk/news/further-arrests-made-in-golders-green-arson-investigation-507878 | |||
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"I really don't understand what they would hope to achieve from this
Bigotry is usually about hate, not anything productive. Violence against Jews in the UK over the past fifty years had gone from being almost exclusively perpetrated by far right white men, to being almost evenly split between far right white men and Middle Eastern/South Asian men. In both cases, it's a case of a manifestation of a general bigotry against Jews emerging from very different elements within those cultures.
Not about achieving anything, just hatred materialised.
I would say anti semitism in the West is now almost exclusively from the far left and the Muslim community.
Do you know that thing we say about jumping to conclusions…. What do we think now that the two men bailed out for this incident look to be “white men of British origin”
Also it looks as if the charges have been downgraded from terror and hate crime related to just plain old arson
So does “p” owe a community an apology? Will it be heartfelt?
No, he doesn't (specifically for the arson incident). Because the group who claimed responsibility do fit "a community", which is the only information so far known... Unless you have access to something that the media hasn't released - from where did you get the intel that those arrested were white? Furthermore, Iran had recently been using criminal networks (no specific ethnicity or ideology) and if as police suspected, it might be linked with other Iranian terrorist attacks against Jewish interests throughout the Western world, in the event that they are, indeed, white, it would not necessarily that the source was not, for example, Iran.
You might be right, but it's unclear how you reach such a confident conclusion at this point in time.
@Fabio - now that you've weighed in on bringing race/colour/ethnicity into the discussion, would you care to comment on the three new arrests of younger, perhaps not so white, suspects?"Not for the first time there is no follow up to false accusations. | |||
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"A new low for antisemitism? = No Was it fucking awful= Yes Should Jewish people feel safe no matter where they go = yes But I'm pretty sure the all time low is = pogroms & Auschwitz " OH, SO YOU SUPPORT VIOLENT ANTISEMITISM ON THE STREETS OF THE UK DO YOU???? 🤣🤣🤣 (/s for the avoidance of doubt) | |||
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"Imagine a world without religion " Yes please. But, then, people would start fighting over which end of a boiled egg to crack open! (If anybody even gets my reference) | |||
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"Imagine a world without religion Yes please. But, then, people would start fighting over which end of a boiled egg to crack open! (If anybody even gets my reference)" I got it. I'm a little-endian. If you weren't aware big-endian and little-endian are now recognised terms in computer science to describe how data is stored in memory. | |||
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"Imagine a world without religion Yes please. But, then, people would start fighting over which end of a boiled egg to crack open! (If anybody even gets my reference) I got it. I'm a little-endian. If you weren't aware big-endian and little-endian are now recognised terms in computer science to describe how data is stored in memory." Ah, thanks for that info. I'd actually 'swiftly' forgotten who the original protagonists were named, any way! | |||
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"I really don't understand what they would hope to achieve from this
Bigotry is usually about hate, not anything productive. Violence against Jews in the UK over the past fifty years had gone from being almost exclusively perpetrated by far right white men, to being almost evenly split between far right white men and Middle Eastern/South Asian men. In both cases, it's a case of a manifestation of a general bigotry against Jews emerging from very different elements within those cultures.
Not about achieving anything, just hatred materialised.
I would say anti semitism in the West is now almost exclusively from the far left and the Muslim community.
Do you know that thing we say about jumping to conclusions…. What do we think now that the two men bailed out for this incident look to be “white men of British origin”
Also it looks as if the charges have been downgraded from terror and hate crime related to just plain old arson
So does “p” owe a community an apology? Will it be heartfelt?
No, he doesn't (specifically for the arson incident). Because the group who claimed responsibility do fit "a community", which is the only information so far known... Unless you have access to something that the media hasn't released - from where did you get the intel that those arrested were white? Furthermore, Iran had recently been using criminal networks (no specific ethnicity or ideology) and if as police suspected, it might be linked with other Iranian terrorist attacks against Jewish interests throughout the Western world, in the event that they are, indeed, white, it would not necessarily that the source was not, for example, Iran.
You might be right, but it's unclear how you reach such a confident conclusion at this point in time.
@Fabio - now that you've weighed in on bringing race/colour/ethnicity into the discussion, would you care to comment on the three new arrests of younger, perhaps not so white, suspects?
Not for the first time there is no follow up to false accusations."Are you surprised? | |||
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"I really don't understand what they would hope to achieve from this
Bigotry is usually about hate, not anything productive. Violence against Jews in the UK over the past fifty years had gone from being almost exclusively perpetrated by far right white men, to being almost evenly split between far right white men and Middle Eastern/South Asian men. In both cases, it's a case of a manifestation of a general bigotry against Jews emerging from very different elements within those cultures.
Not about achieving anything, just hatred materialised.
I would say anti semitism in the West is now almost exclusively from the far left and the Muslim community.
Do you know that thing we say about jumping to conclusions…. What do we think now that the two men bailed out for this incident look to be “white men of British origin”
Also it looks as if the charges have been downgraded from terror and hate crime related to just plain old arson
So does “p” owe a community an apology? Will it be heartfelt?
No, he doesn't (specifically for the arson incident). Because the group who claimed responsibility do fit "a community", which is the only information so far known... Unless you have access to something that the media hasn't released - from where did you get the intel that those arrested were white? Furthermore, Iran had recently been using criminal networks (no specific ethnicity or ideology) and if as police suspected, it might be linked with other Iranian terrorist attacks against Jewish interests throughout the Western world, in the event that they are, indeed, white, it would not necessarily that the source was not, for example, Iran.
You might be right, but it's unclear how you reach such a confident conclusion at this point in time.
@Fabio - now that you've weighed in on bringing race/colour/ethnicity into the discussion, would you care to comment on the three new arrests of younger, perhaps not so white, suspects?
Not for the first time there is no follow up to false accusations.
Are you surprised? "No but also disappointed. | |||
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"Israel is a country run by zionists, it is not the complete Jewish faith all in one. You can hate Israel and support those Jewish with motality. You have to have low intelligence to keep thinking hating Israel is anti semitic. It is not" Zionism is the belief that Jews have the right to self-determination in the land where their culture developed. It's more than a religion, and not all antisemitism is blatant hatred, some of it manifests as a pseudo-intellectual word-salad wrapped up in fake history. If you check the IHRA Working Definition of Antisemitism – written by Jews and accepted by many organisations worldwide – you'll see that calling for the destruction of Israel is antisemitic. "Denying the Jewish people their right to self-determination, e.g., by claiming that the existence of a State of Israel is a racist endeavor." The majority of Jews live in Israel, the majority of Jews support the existence of Israel – so wheeling out a minority opinion as a token gesture says a lot in itself. But that's what anti-Zionism is - a movement to make 7 million Jews stateless! | |||
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"Israel is a country run by zionists, it is not the complete Jewish faith all in one. You can hate Israel and support those Jewish with motality. You have to have low intelligence to keep thinking hating Israel is anti semitic. It is not Zionism is the belief that Jews have the right to self-determination in the land where their culture developed. It's more than a religion, and not all antisemitism is blatant hatred, some of it manifests as a pseudo-intellectual word-salad wrapped up in fake history. If you check the IHRA Working Definition of Antisemitism – written by Jews and accepted by many organisations worldwide – you'll see that calling for the destruction of Israel is antisemitic. "Denying the Jewish people their right to self-determination, e.g., by claiming that the existence of a State of Israel is a racist endeavor." The majority of Jews live in Israel, the majority of Jews support the existence of Israel – so wheeling out a minority opinion as a token gesture says a lot in itself. But that's what anti-Zionism is - a movement to make 7 million Jews stateless! " Very well put 👏 | |||
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"I really don't understand what they would hope to achieve from this
Bigotry is usually about hate, not anything productive. Violence against Jews in the UK over the past fifty years had gone from being almost exclusively perpetrated by far right white men, to being almost evenly split between far right white men and Middle Eastern/South Asian men. In both cases, it's a case of a manifestation of a general bigotry against Jews emerging from very different elements within those cultures.
Not about achieving anything, just hatred materialised.
I would say anti semitism in the West is now almost exclusively from the far left and the Muslim community.
Do you know that thing we say about jumping to conclusions…. What do we think now that the two men bailed out for this incident look to be “white men of British origin”
Also it looks as if the charges have been downgraded from terror and hate crime related to just plain old arson
So does “p” owe a community an apology? Will it be heartfelt? "🤦♂️ | |||
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"Three men charged, Hamza Iqbal, 20, Rehan Khan, 19, and a 17-year-old dual British and Pakistani national, all from East London. They are of course entitled to a presumption of innocence at this point." This I presume is the win Yvette has given you? | |||
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