FabSwingers.com mobile

Join us FREE, we're FREE to use

Web's largest swingers site since 2006.

Already registered?
Login here

Back to forum list
Back to Politics

NHS Vs private medical care

Jump to newest
 

By *ools and the brain OP   Couple
11 weeks ago

couple, us we him her.

So the Tories big plan to run the NHS down, turn it into a bureaucratic nightmare tying it up in red tape has worked.

With the waste being created by unnecessary bureaucracy and being scared to make choices and decisions based on patients welfare as too scared of taking responsibility and ownership in case it is wrong.

This has resulted in the rise of private medical companies offering GP and surgical treatments at ridiculous costs ( similar to vets) .

So the NHS services seem to be dominated by people who haven't actually contributed to the system be it: immigrants, criminals or the professional work shy who know every dodge going to avoid paying their way in life.

Are the honest hard working folks going to have to continue to not only subside the majority of NHS service users and at the same time if we require treatment we'll have to pay for the privilege?

I can't think of any other country in the world where this happens.

I'm not sure what the answer is?

Obviously we can't deny treatment to people who need it but how long can this continue?

Should we have the option to opt out of national insurance contributions if we are financially able to provide for ourselves??

Reply privatelyReply in forumReply +quote
 

By (user no longer on site)
11 weeks ago

At least you can get an appointment all day at the vet, not just by phoning at 8am and being 23rd in the queue.

Reply privatelyReply in forumReply +quote
 

By *otMe66Man
11 weeks ago

Terra Firma

opt out no, reduction in tax to cover private healthcare yes.

We can't continue with a model that is well and truly broken, but we can't also abandon those that can't afford to go elsewhere.

Reply privatelyReply in forumReply +quote
 

By (user no longer on site)
11 weeks ago

Was revealed this week that County Durham and Darlington NHS Foundation Trust spent more than £600,000 to fight their own nurses in court over the use of female changing rooms. They lost, of course.

Reply privatelyReply in forumReply +quote
 

By *illi3736Woman
11 weeks ago

Glasgow

When the day dawns that we are all at the mercy of private medicine will be the day that this country will have truly lost a value that we haven't protected enough. It doesn't help that certain politicians are talking down and causing divisions within the country.

Anyone who falls for the rhetoric of the right wingers look across the pond and pray we never descend that far

Reply privatelyReply in forumReply +quote
 

By *exy_HornyCouple
10 weeks ago

Leigh

The NHS should provide timely, effective and good quality care for British citizens, and should concentrate on getting the basics right.

It doesn’t do what it is supposed to do because (as an outsider who uses the service looking in) it is inefficient, bureaucratic and hampered by poor decisions (management and political) and by the lack of end to end integration in care (social care “run” (or not as is usually the case) by councils).

The NHS doesn’t suffer from a lack of money, it is a lack of competence.

Reply privatelyReply in forumReply +quote
 

By *unguy410Man
10 weeks ago

Cambridge


"Should we have the option to opt out of national insurance contributions if we are financially able to provide for ourselves?? "

Just because someone can afford to go private today, it doesn't mean they will be able to next year or in a decade's time.

Reply privatelyReply in forumReply +quote
 

By *ingdomNightTimePleasuresMan
10 weeks ago

nearby

Hm treasury receipts are £1.1trn and nhs budget £186bn last time I looked.

This surely is enough tax money collected to provide a functional health service. We are importing sugar and herbicide laden foods, feeding the country on crap, a third of the country overweight, add the drug abuse, alcohol and smoking disease treatments costing nhs £30bn+ a year. Add the cost of all the poor procurement deals, things like new labours £80bn nhs PFI that delivered £13bn investment.

Johnson’s 40 new hospitals MIA too

Reply privatelyReply in forumReply +quote
 

By *ingdomNightTimePleasuresMan
10 weeks ago

nearby


"Was revealed this week that County Durham and Darlington NHS Foundation Trust spent more than £600,000 to fight their own nurses in court over the use of female changing rooms. They lost, of course.

"

Derriford hospital Plymouth leased a floor of Chris Dawsons new HQ Brand new building located next to the hospital. They spent £60,000 changing heating systems and furnishing, then vacated a year later tied into the lease; £250-300k at least. Things like this everywhere in state run departments.

Reply privatelyReply in forumReply +quote
 

By *ingdomNightTimePleasuresMan
10 weeks ago

nearby


"Was revealed this week that County Durham and Darlington NHS Foundation Trust spent more than £600,000 to fight their own nurses in court over the use of female changing rooms. They lost, of course.

"

NHS spent £3.1 billion on medical negligence compensation in 2024/25, a 10% increase from the previous year, as reported by NHS Resolution. Costs are projected to reach £4.1 billion by 2029-30, driven largely by high-value, long-term care claims, particularly in maternity

Reply privatelyReply in forumReply +quote
 

By *ingdomNightTimePleasuresMan
10 weeks ago

nearby

25% of nhs budget spent on self inflicted obesity (state must take joint responsibility for not regulating foods properly), alcoholism, drug abuse, smoking related diseases and medical compensation.

Reply privatelyReply in forumReply +quote
 

By (user no longer on site)
10 weeks ago


"Was revealed this week that County Durham and Darlington NHS Foundation Trust spent more than £600,000 to fight their own nurses in court over the use of female changing rooms. They lost, of course.

Derriford hospital Plymouth leased a floor of Chris Dawsons new HQ Brand new building located next to the hospital. They spent £60,000 changing heating systems and furnishing, then vacated a year later tied into the lease; £250-300k at least. Things like this everywhere in state run departments. "

Absolutely. Also a lot of nepotism and corruption in these contracts.

Reply privatelyReply in forumReply +quote
 

By (user no longer on site)
10 weeks ago

Here's what people forget in such a debate. You may be able to afford private now, get a serious illness and premium bumps up. Also part of my love for having the NHS, is friends and family can get treatment, not die like they do in other countries. Anyone who seen the 2999s doc on it about UK doctors volunteering to diagnose US citizens, because they can't afford healthcare, would surely get why universal healthcare is a human right. I get private with work, won't use it out of principle. All in it together

Reply privatelyReply in forumReply +quote
 

By *otMe66Man
10 weeks ago

Terra Firma


"Here's what people forget in such a debate. You may be able to afford private now, get a serious illness and premium bumps up. Also part of my love for having the NHS, is friends and family can get treatment, not die like they do in other countries. Anyone who seen the 2999s doc on it about UK doctors volunteering to diagnose US citizens, because they can't afford healthcare, would surely get why universal healthcare is a human right. I get private with work, won't use it out of principle. All in it together "

You know the NHS is stretched and struggling, you have a free alternative and decide not to use it? What is the principle you are working to?

Reply privatelyReply in forumReply +quote
 

By *og-ManMan
10 weeks ago

somewhere

We have a similar system in Ireland but we pay for everything via our taxes and also pay for every visit to a GP and hospital consultant

I pay a tax to help fund out HSE service as our NHS is called

I pay €65 to see my doctor but can get an appointment same day or next day if I can wait

If I go to a public hospital A&E its €100.00 just to see a nurse and it could take hours to be seen

So most people have private health insurance

€175.00 to walk into a private hospital A&E

You'll be seen within one hour

No matter how many tests you need there's a maximum charge of €500 per visit

Most of the charges can be claimed back from your health insurer

Some of the private hospitals are owned by the health insurer

My family cover is €6000 and its worth it just to skip the queues for consultants and to have procedures

Reply privatelyReply in forumReply +quote
 

By (user no longer on site)
10 weeks ago


"Here's what people forget in such a debate. You may be able to afford private now, get a serious illness and premium bumps up. Also part of my love for having the NHS, is friends and family can get treatment, not die like they do in other countries. Anyone who seen the 2999s doc on it about UK doctors volunteering to diagnose US citizens, because they can't afford healthcare, would surely get why universal healthcare is a human right. I get private with work, won't use it out of principle. All in it together

You know the NHS is stretched and struggling, you have a free alternative and decide not to use it? What is the principle you are working to?

"
you know the same doctors in the NHS have private clinics. My principle is not to remove them from the NHS more often and not to lead to full privatisation. More have private health and use it, more it becomes normal

Reply privatelyReply in forumReply +quote
 

By (user no longer on site)
10 weeks ago

Story in news today, from coroners Court.

'Woman, 97, was found dead on the floor of her home after being told she would have to wait ten days for an ambulance for a suspected hip break.'

Perhaps we didn't clap loud enough?

Reply privatelyReply in forumReply +quote
 

By *inky PerkyCouple
10 weeks ago

Narnia

I've never had any issues with the NHS.

Reply privatelyReply in forumReply +quote
 

By *otMe66Man
10 weeks ago

Terra Firma


"Here's what people forget in such a debate. You may be able to afford private now, get a serious illness and premium bumps up. Also part of my love for having the NHS, is friends and family can get treatment, not die like they do in other countries. Anyone who seen the 2999s doc on it about UK doctors volunteering to diagnose US citizens, because they can't afford healthcare, would surely get why universal healthcare is a human right. I get private with work, won't use it out of principle. All in it together

You know the NHS is stretched and struggling, you have a free alternative and decide not to use it? What is the principle you are working to?

you know the same doctors in the NHS have private clinics. My principle is not to remove them from the NHS more often and not to lead to full privatisation. More have private health and use it, more it becomes normal "

I understand some doctors will also take on private work, it is another sign of the broken NHS model that no government is ever going to fix.

Not using private healthcare although it is free will not change the private work being undertaken, it will however add one more to the back of the NHS waiting list.

Reply privatelyReply in forumReply +quote
 

By (user no longer on site)
10 weeks ago

IMHO…

1. The NHS is too big. This creates the need for multiple tiers of managers. It needs to be broken up into smaller more manageable chunks.

2. It’s idolised by the left. All logic goes out the window when it comes to the NHS. Anyone who suggests there may be an issue gets a torrent of abuse, usually culminating in claims that you want to shut it down and charge disabled people to see their GP. You’re either willing to have a discussion or you’re not. If not, shut up, personal attacks help nobody.

3. Money is not the issue. Spending on the NHS was increased by over 10% by this government and things not only have not improved, they have gotten worse.

4. The Population has increased and infrastructure hasn’t. There has been next to no increase in hospital beds yet the population grows by close to a million a year. The problem is exacerbated by the fact that this population growth has not been matched with a similar GDP growth. Also, the population is older, people are living longer, so the amount of care needed per 100,000 people has increased.

5. There is no personal responsibility. This is on both sides of the equation. GPs are very quick to send people to A&E. They are swamped so it’s impossible to hit their targets. But people are also very quick to seek medical attention for stuff they could take care of at home. Can’t wait for some leftie to make out I mean people having a heart attack should just walk it off. That’s obviously not what I mean.

6. There no accountability. Senior managers are more interested in taking staff to court over gender identity than they are in monitoring staff performance. They can’t possibly be doing anything wrong, they are a nurse. Oh wait, you addressed a male convicted pedo as sir? You evil nasty bastard. We don’t need people like you in the NHS.

The list is almost endless and no matter how much money you throw at it, it’s not gonna make any difference. The entire system needs reinventing from the ground up.

Reply privatelyReply in forumReply +quote
 

By (user no longer on site)
10 weeks ago

Very good post BGB ^ 👏

Reply privatelyReply in forumReply +quote
 

By *ingdomNightTimePleasuresMan
10 weeks ago

nearby


"IMHO…

1. The NHS is too big. This creates the need for multiple tiers of managers. It needs to be broken up into smaller more manageable chunks.

The entire system needs reinventing from the ground up. "

NHS in England handles approximately 600 million patient contacts across all services, averaging 1.7 million interactions daily.

(This includes GP appointments, hospital treatments, and ambulance service interactions).

In the year ending June 2025, GP teams alone carried out 383.3 million appointments

Good luck rearranging this

Reply privatelyReply in forumReply +quote
 

By (user no longer on site)
10 weeks ago


"IMHO…

1. The NHS is too big. This creates the need for multiple tiers of managers. It needs to be broken up into smaller more manageable chunks.

The entire system needs reinventing from the ground up.

NHS in England handles approximately 600 million patient contacts across all services, averaging 1.7 million interactions daily.

(This includes GP appointments, hospital treatments, and ambulance service interactions).

In the year ending June 2025, GP teams alone carried out 383.3 million appointments

Good luck rearranging this "

So just carry as it is because fixing it is hard?

Reply privatelyReply in forumReply +quote
 

By *ingdomNightTimePleasuresMan
10 weeks ago

nearby


"IMHO…

1. The NHS is too big. This creates the need for multiple tiers of managers. It needs to be broken up into smaller more manageable chunks.

The entire system needs reinventing from the ground up.

NHS in England handles approximately 600 million patient contacts across all services, averaging 1.7 million interactions daily.

(This includes GP appointments, hospital treatments, and ambulance service interactions).

In the year ending June 2025, GP teams alone carried out 383.3 million appointments

Good luck rearranging this

So just carry as it is because fixing it is hard? "

Still waiting repair of c10,000 buildings with life threatening cladding 10 years after grenfell, failing to stop 40k small boats, 14 month backlog at HM Land Reg. 120,000 retiring/retired civil servants with no pension/lump sum/ projections, some living on credit cards after govt privatised the pension scheme administration

Aspirations to rework a 600M caseload for nhs on top. Not seeing it

Reply privatelyReply in forumReply +quote
 

By (user no longer on site)
10 weeks ago


"IMHO…

1. The NHS is too big. This creates the need for multiple tiers of managers. It needs to be broken up into smaller more manageable chunks.

The entire system needs reinventing from the ground up.

NHS in England handles approximately 600 million patient contacts across all services, averaging 1.7 million interactions daily.

(This includes GP appointments, hospital treatments, and ambulance service interactions).

In the year ending June 2025, GP teams alone carried out 383.3 million appointments

Good luck rearranging this

So just carry as it is because fixing it is hard?

Still waiting repair of c10,000 buildings with life threatening cladding 10 years after grenfell, failing to stop 40k small boats, 14 month backlog at HM Land Reg. 120,000 retiring/retired civil servants with no pension/lump sum/ projections, some living on credit cards after govt privatised the pension scheme administration

Aspirations to rework a 600M caseload for nhs on top. Not seeing it "

I don’t see what a civil servants pension has got to do with GPs refusing to see patients

Reply privatelyReply in forumReply +quote
 

By *rDiscretionXXXMan
10 weeks ago

Gilfach


"Still waiting repair of c10,000 buildings with life threatening cladding 10 years after grenfell ..."

The cladding isn't life-threatening, it's just a small increase in fire hazard, which is easily mitigated against.

And all those buildings are privately owned. Why are you blaming the government for not having done something?

And what the hell has that got to do with whether the NHS is too big or not?

Reply privatelyReply in forumReply +quote
 

By *resesse_MelioremCouple
10 weeks ago

Border of London

Some thoughts:

1. Eliminate all waiting lists, by any means. This should include shipping people overseas for treatment (why pay for Pakistani or Indian doctors to come here, when we could simply push the operations there at a fraction of the cost?). If that means paying private, then do it.

2. Decouple social care from hospital treatment. Declare an emergency and use the Nightingale hospitals for the thousands of beds being taken up by those who do not need the hospital beds, but cannot be discharged because of living circumstances.

3. Utilise offshore practitioners more. Apart from clearing the backlog, understand where this can be done and how it can work.

4. Integrated AI for diagnosis. Two things: (1) diagnosis itself, with human oversight, and (2) as a second-opinion. In phase 1, AI simply monitors all information and diagnosis. It provides shadow-recommendations, which are reviewed and the model is trained. In phase 2, it enriches a human's diagnosis, supporting or challenging, which is then sent to a human for arbitration. Phase 3, the mature AI model is used in the first instance by (say) nurse practitioners, who then sanity-check it and are themselves reviewed by senior doctors. A similar approach should be rolled out across other areas, not just primary care. Especially pharmaceuticals. The underlying AI would not be like the LLMs we see today that hallucinate, they would be much more "rules based" and less conversational (for those who worry).

5. Remove the concept of of registered doctor. It's rooted in the practices of the last century. Nowadays, most people don't really have a family doctor who knows and cares for patients (this does exist in some areas). GPs should be available in medical centres around the country, who provide standardised services across the country, with no "postcode lottery". GPs under the NHS should expose their availability and should be bookable by anyone (but there should be some system to restrict or limit inefficiency based upon distance). Phone/video appointments should be used wherever possible, but not by face-to-face GPs (without a solid reason, e.g. under the care of a specific doctor/specialist for some reason). These doctors could live in less expensive parts of the country (or indeed outside of it). Where required, a visit to a local medical centre (injections/physical exams, etc.) can be scheduled by these remote GPs. Again, unlike in the current system, these could be anywhere in the country.

6. Training doctors and other medical professionals.

(a) Scrap limits. We need more medical staff, to the point that we import them. Train more. Simple. Screw the industry bodies that artificially limit the intake.

(b) Huge debt, repaid by the NHS in full. Look at the actual training cost of training a doctor. No caps, no subsidies, just take that whole cost and add it to the account of the trainee. Reduce that in equal parts over 20 years of service - if they leave before then, they pay the remainder back. The country will take on the full financial burden of training medical professionals (should be extended to teachers and all key workers), provided that we get 20 years out of them. Simple.

6. Mental health - treat this as an emergency, as in point 1 above. Much of this can be offshored, and train mental health staff as in point 5 above. Especially for children and teenagers,

7. Fire the non-productive people. Overhaul the processes and red tape and stop treating the NHS as a holy cow that is above reproach.

8. Include all critical and emergency dental treatment for everyone, and actually make it happen. This has massive consequences for overall health. Train more dentists (as above), since we will need them. Or, import more dentists, or offshore, as above, as needed.

9. Better prevention/early intervention. More on smoking/drinking/weight management.

10. Make private health insurance premiums tax deductible. It's insane not to incentivise people to pay for their own health and be less of a burden on the NHS. This is very successful in other countries.

11. Don't fund non-medical/illness-related issues. This includes elective operations such as cosmetic surgery, IVF and gender reassignments. This will almost certainly cause an uproar (on this forum, as well), but these are not the same level as a broken leg. These surgeries SHOULD be provided, however they should be funded either privately, or through tax-deductible donations (perhaps not nose-jobs or teeth whitening - you get the idea). There is a hierarchy of needs in the NHS, with things like A&E, childbirth, cancer treatment at the top, and prescription gluten-free pizzas for coeliacs at the bottom (thankfully, we've stopped that now). At a certain point, the taxpayer says "stop - that's it". Nevertheless, good people can and should fund those other services, such as IVF and gender reassignment. It's just unfair to burden the NHS and the tax system with this, while some people are being denied basic medical/dental care. Which services and where to draw the line should be a public consultation, with clear costings and tradfe-offs.

Reply privatelyReply in forumReply +quote
 

By (user no longer on site)
10 weeks ago


"Some thoughts:

1. Eliminate all waiting lists, by any means. This should include shipping people overseas for treatment (why pay for Pakistani or Indian doctors to come here, when we could simply push the operations there at a fraction of the cost?). If that means paying private, then do it.

2. Decouple social care from hospital treatment. Declare an emergency and use the Nightingale hospitals for the thousands of beds being taken up by those who do not need the hospital beds, but cannot be discharged because of living circumstances.

3. Utilise offshore practitioners more. Apart from clearing the backlog, understand where this can be done and how it can work.

4. Integrated AI for diagnosis. Two things: (1) diagnosis itself, with human oversight, and (2) as a second-opinion. In phase 1, AI simply monitors all information and diagnosis. It provides shadow-recommendations, which are reviewed and the model is trained. In phase 2, it enriches a human's diagnosis, supporting or challenging, which is then sent to a human for arbitration. Phase 3, the mature AI model is used in the first instance by (say) nurse practitioners, who then sanity-check it and are themselves reviewed by senior doctors. A similar approach should be rolled out across other areas, not just primary care. Especially pharmaceuticals. The underlying AI would not be like the LLMs we see today that hallucinate, they would be much more "rules based" and less conversational (for those who worry).

5. Remove the concept of of registered doctor. It's rooted in the practices of the last century. Nowadays, most people don't really have a family doctor who knows and cares for patients (this does exist in some areas). GPs should be available in medical centres around the country, who provide standardised services across the country, with no "postcode lottery". GPs under the NHS should expose their availability and should be bookable by anyone (but there should be some system to restrict or limit inefficiency based upon distance). Phone/video appointments should be used wherever possible, but not by face-to-face GPs (without a solid reason, e.g. under the care of a specific doctor/specialist for some reason). These doctors could live in less expensive parts of the country (or indeed outside of it). Where required, a visit to a local medical centre (injections/physical exams, etc.) can be scheduled by these remote GPs. Again, unlike in the current system, these could be anywhere in the country.

6. Training doctors and other medical professionals.

(a) Scrap limits. We need more medical staff, to the point that we import them. Train more. Simple. Screw the industry bodies that artificially limit the intake.

(b) Huge debt, repaid by the NHS in full. Look at the actual training cost of training a doctor. No caps, no subsidies, just take that whole cost and add it to the account of the trainee. Reduce that in equal parts over 20 years of service - if they leave before then, they pay the remainder back. The country will take on the full financial burden of training medical professionals (should be extended to teachers and all key workers), provided that we get 20 years out of them. Simple.

6. Mental health - treat this as an emergency, as in point 1 above. Much of this can be offshored, and train mental health staff as in point 5 above. Especially for children and teenagers,

7. Fire the non-productive people. Overhaul the processes and red tape and stop treating the NHS as a holy cow that is above reproach.

8. Include all critical and emergency dental treatment for everyone, and actually make it happen. This has massive consequences for overall health. Train more dentists (as above), since we will need them. Or, import more dentists, or offshore, as above, as needed.

9. Better prevention/early intervention. More on smoking/drinking/weight management.

10. Make private health insurance premiums tax deductible. It's insane not to incentivise people to pay for their own health and be less of a burden on the NHS. This is very successful in other countries.

11. Don't fund non-medical/illness-related issues. This includes elective operations such as cosmetic surgery, IVF and gender reassignments. This will almost certainly cause an uproar (on this forum, as well), but these are not the same level as a broken leg. These surgeries SHOULD be provided, however they should be funded either privately, or through tax-deductible donations (perhaps not nose-jobs or teeth whitening - you get the idea). There is a hierarchy of needs in the NHS, with things like A&E, childbirth, cancer treatment at the top, and prescription gluten-free pizzas for coeliacs at the bottom (thankfully, we've stopped that now). At a certain point, the taxpayer says "stop - that's it". Nevertheless, good people can and should fund those other services, such as IVF and gender reassignment. It's just unfair to burden the NHS and the tax system with this, while some people are being denied basic medical/dental care. Which services and where to draw the line should be a public consultation, with clear costings and tradfe-offs."

Some very good points there 👍🏻

Reply privatelyReply in forumReply +quote
 
 

By *og and MuseCouple
10 weeks ago

Dubai & Nottingham

private medical in the uk is now essential , waiting and level of care in the NHS is worse than anywhere I've travelled in the world. although it's quite expensive in the UK still and you still pay full tax on any employer provided policy which is very unfair. You should actually get a reduction not pay twice.

Employers and pension providers should be forced by law to provide it to families of the workers like in Dubai.

People will say, but what about those not working well If you are not working, or not on workplace sick pay , or a pension, or not a partner or dependent of someone who is working, then what are you actually doing ?

Reply privatelyReply in forumReply +quote
Post new Message to Thread
back to top