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"https://youtu.be/i69D6slpxC8 This should have happened from day 1, avoiding all the escalation, violence, rioting, and deaths. The question remains will Walz and Frey suffer any consequences for their actions?" Actions for what!!! They were doing their job. . The two that lost their life's were both at fault, maybe others will learn from this to.... obay the Law. | |||
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"https://youtu.be/i69D6slpxC8 This should have happened from day 1, avoiding all the escalation, violence, rioting, and deaths. The question remains will Walz and Frey suffer any consequences for their actions?" Absolutely and the blame lies with Walz and Frey, not the local or state officers. | |||
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"Actions for what!!! They were doing their job." Really?? Not co-operating with federal officials? Inciting civilians against federal agents and operations? Not sending in State Police to help de-escalate rising tensions from day one? Possible involvement in State-level fraud? They need to be subject to multiple criminal investigations at the very least! "The two that lost their life's were both at fault, maybe others will learn from this to.... obay the Law." The individuals were ultimately responsible for their actions, but not far behind them are Walz and Fray, and even beyond them is Trump. They’re all accountable to various degrees for what’s happening in Minnesota. | |||
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"Actions for what!!! They were doing their job. Really?? Not co-operating with federal officials? Inciting civilians against federal agents and operations? Not sending in State Police to help de-escalate rising tensions from day one? Possible involvement in State-level fraud? They need to be subject to multiple criminal investigations at the very least! The two that lost their life's were both at fault, maybe others will learn from this to.... obay the Law. The individuals were ultimately responsible for their actions, but not far behind them are Walz and Fray, and even beyond them is Trump. They’re all accountable to various degrees for what’s happening in Minnesota." Im sure there's a guy - Walter Mitty, who shares your view. As for ICE, there's nothing to see, carry on as normal | |||
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"Im sure there's a guy - Walter Mitty, who shares your view. As for ICE, there's nothing to see, carry on as normal" I don’t know who that is, therefore what you’re on about. What I do know is anyone with more than half a brain cell wouldn’t look at the conduct of Walz and Fray and conclude they’re “just doing their job!”  | |||
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"I think you lot don’t realise you are on the same side, but got argumentative for the sake of it…" Do not lump/group/tar me in with "you lot" and "same side" bullshit. Ever. Do not presume to know anything about me beyond what I myself choose to type on here. I post on these forums as my individual self, speaking only for me, myself and I. And that's exactly how I treat each and every other user here as well. If I engage or respond on here I do so to the specific content of that user's post and that's it. Understand? "B) the op showing an asmongold clip to strengthen his point is one of those lightbulb moments.." Well, you can promptly switch off that light again. It's amusing to watch you enjoy this like it's an "ah-ha!" or "gotcha!" moment. Like you've got all my cards marked, like you can see the Matrix now or something. The fact is, it being an "asmongold clip" has fuck-all to do with my argument, which is about the content of the news being shown, and nothing to do with the talking head in the corner providing commentary. Are you going to pretend my point would be any different if I'd used a Hasan, or Vaush, or Destiny, or old media like the BBC clip instead? Why not give honesty a try? For once? "I don’t know if I should be more embarrassed that I know who he is… or more embarrassed that he thinks it shows him in a good light!" I couldn't care less what "light" it shows me in. The fact that you even look at it that way clearly shows the difference between me and you, and our attitude to posting on here. How sad. Let's pretend that you're right, however, and then you can explain to me where this "embarressment" is supposed to be coming from? Hmm? "And if you don’t know who he is…. Don’t bother looking him up, it’s time you will never get back.. and you will be truely horrified" Lol. Gotta say it's kinda cute hearing the, "no no, don't look into it for yourselves, guys, just trust my word on this" spiel from someone who pushes misinformation and tells blatant lies in their posts. How adorable.  | |||
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"Sources please, or at least explain why that means he deserved to be shot ten times for helping a woman who'd been shoved over?" The video is on the BBC. He didn’t deserve to he shot. He was there to engage in violent confrontation with officers doing their legal duty. | |||
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"Footage released of Alex Pretti spitting at officers and kicking out their car lights at a previous demonstration. Also reported to have broken a rib in another violent incident. Family concerned about his radicalisation by far left online groups. Then takes a loaded handgun and two full magazines to yet another confrontation. Not quite the innocent bystander he was first portrayed as..." Yeah I just saw the footage on tonight’s BBC news. Apparently it was on Jan 13th near where Good was killed. He was in the street aggressively yelling at an officer before spitting at him, then when driving away he kicks and smashes the taillight. Officers then attempt to detain him and he resists, before they let him go and drive away. Clearly he was a troubled man, and was determined to get himself into altercations with armed law enforcement… 😬 | |||
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"There's no evidence of that, that's your opinion. Unfortunately we'll never know because he was shot ten times for no reason" “For no reason”… tell me, doesn’t it get tiring being so intentionally dishonest all the time?? | |||
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"Footage released of Alex Pretti spitting at officers and kicking out their car lights at a previous demonstration. Also reported to have broken a rib in another violent incident. Family concerned about his radicalisation by far left online groups. Then takes a loaded handgun and two full magazines to yet another confrontation. Not quite the innocent bystander he was first portrayed as... Yeah I just saw the footage on tonight’s BBC news. Apparently it was on Jan 13th near where Good was killed. He was in the street aggressively yelling at an officer before spitting at him, then when driving away he kicks and smashes the taillight. Officers then attempt to detain him and he resists, before they let him go and drive away. Clearly he was a troubled man, and was determined to get himself into altercations with armed law enforcement… 😬" It's often very troubled people like Pretti and Renee Good who are targeted by the far left for radicalisation on this and other issues. Easy to manipulate emotionally. | |||
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"There's no evidence of that, that's your opinion. Unfortunately we'll never know because he was shot ten times for no reason" Also; “no evidence”… yes, because we all know that approaching officers in the middle of the road to shout aggressively, spit at them and then violently kick out and smack their taillight was just simple, innocent, “peaceful” protesting, right? Give it a rest, eh? | |||
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"Any comment on the disturbed, radicalised man who disturbingly sprayed an unknown liquid at an American politician yesterday?" Who is this ? | |||
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"https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cn9zpee3llxo" Yes, sounds like another radicalised nut job.  | |||
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"Please enlighten me on the dishonest so I can be as wise as you?" You’re not even making sense…
Maybe come back when you’re more calm, and ready for some actual, intellectually honest discussion? | |||
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"Footage released of Alex Pretti spitting at officers and kicking out their car lights at a previous demonstration. Also reported to have broken a rib in another violent incident. Family concerned about his radicalisation by far left online groups. Then takes a loaded handgun and two full magazines to yet another confrontation. Not quite the innocent bystander he was first portrayed as..." The NRA has gone crazy with the White House over these suggestions that someone carrying a licenced firearm is sufficient grounds for them to be shot. It might seem mad to us over here but the NRA is probably one of the few organisations in the USA that Trump et al are scared of. Losing the NRA would be a huge deal and if there was a full on splintering between Trump and the NRA then a lot of Republicans would back the NRA. The Second Amendment is fundamental to a huge number of Americans. Do not underestimate how pissed off the NRA is about the attack lines the White House has been using. | |||
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"interested to know why you think my opinion on the topic at hand can only be construed as 'dishonest'? Is it so far-fetched that an opinion different to yours can also be genuine?" Frankly? Yes. Because otherwise it requires a level of ignorance that I’m unwilling to attribute to you. I may be mistaken, of course, it has been known to happen… from time to time… | |||
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"I feel sorry for you that this is how you view the world" I appreciate your sympathy. Ignorance is bliss, as they say, so yeah, it can be tough sometimes being so tied to truth, facts, empirical evidence, etc… | |||
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"The NRA has gone crazy with the White House over these suggestions that someone carrying a licenced firearm is sufficient grounds for them to be shot. It might seem mad to us over here but the NRA is probably one of the few organisations in the USA that Trump et al are scared of. Losing the NRA would be a huge deal and if there was a full on splintering between Trump and the NRA then a lot of Republicans would back the NRA. The Second Amendment is fundamental to a huge number of Americans. Do not underestimate how pissed off the NRA is about the attack lines the White House has been using." Yeah, this whole “zomg he had a gun… a GUN!” angle/take is a rather bizarre and hypocritical one to be clutching to so tightly. As soon as it was established he was holding his phone in his hand, and his pistol was holstered, that should have been dropped from the equation. 🤷♂️ | |||
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"Footage released of Alex Pretti spitting at officers and kicking out their car lights at a previous demonstration. Also reported to have broken a rib in another violent incident. Family concerned about his radicalisation by far left online groups. Then takes a loaded handgun and two full magazines to yet another confrontation. Not quite the innocent bystander he was first portrayed as..." Why is that relevant to his being shot multiple times while incapacitated on the ground and after having his holstered firearm removed? | |||
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"The NRA has gone crazy with the White House over these suggestions that someone carrying a licenced firearm is sufficient grounds for them to be shot. It might seem mad to us over here but the NRA is probably one of the few organisations in the USA that Trump et al are scared of. Losing the NRA would be a huge deal and if there was a full on splintering between Trump and the NRA then a lot of Republicans would back the NRA. The Second Amendment is fundamental to a huge number of Americans. Do not underestimate how pissed off the NRA is about the attack lines the White House has been using." One lingering question is one of the officers shouting, “Gun! Gun! Gun!” and them appearing to jump/step back right before the shots fire. Meaning it’s possible the officer(s) thought he was still armed? Lots of details still missing. | |||
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"Why is that relevant to his being shot multiple times while incapacitated on the ground and after having his holstered firearm removed?" Hmmmm… why is footage of him at an earlier date getting into a violent altercation with law enforcement, including him being wrestled to the ground by multiple officers while resisting, relevant to a very similar later event of almost the exact same thing happening, only this time it tragically escalates into him being shot. Gee, I wonder what the relevance could possibly be!?? Stop playing dumb. | |||
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"Footage released of Alex Pretti spitting at officers and kicking out their car lights at a previous demonstration. Also reported to have broken a rib in another violent incident. Family concerned about his radicalisation by far left online groups. Then takes a loaded handgun and two full magazines to yet another confrontation. Not quite the innocent bystander he was first portrayed as... Why is that relevant to his being shot multiple times while incapacitated on the ground and after having his holstered firearm removed?" He was clearly an aggressive individual looking for confrontation With ICE agents, which activists are encouraged to do. Perhaps if local police had been allowed to do their job he would have been arrested for the first confrontation and not been present at the fatal one ? | |||
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"Footage released of Alex Pretti spitting at officers and kicking out their car lights at a previous demonstration. Also reported to have broken a rib in another violent incident. Family concerned about his radicalisation by far left online groups. Then takes a loaded handgun and two full magazines to yet another confrontation. Not quite the innocent bystander he was first portrayed as... Why is that relevant to his being shot multiple times while incapacitated on the ground and after having his holstered firearm removed? He was clearly an aggressive individual looking for confrontation With ICE agents, which activists are encouraged to do. Perhaps if local police had been allowed to do their job he would have been arrested for the first confrontation and not been present at the fatal one ? " But didn't deserve to be shot and killed. Think of the behaviour of the climate change protesters in this country over recent years, by your logic anyone of them deserved to be killed for resisting arrest. | |||
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"Footage released of Alex Pretti spitting at officers and kicking out their car lights at a previous demonstration. Also reported to have broken a rib in another violent incident. Family concerned about his radicalisation by far left online groups. Then takes a loaded handgun and two full magazines to yet another confrontation. Not quite the innocent bystander he was first portrayed as... The NRA has gone crazy with the White House over these suggestions that someone carrying a licenced firearm is sufficient grounds for them to be shot. It might seem mad to us over here but the NRA is probably one of the few organisations in the USA that Trump et al are scared of. Losing the NRA would be a huge deal and if there was a full on splintering between Trump and the NRA then a lot of Republicans would back the NRA. The Second Amendment is fundamental to a huge number of Americans. Do not underestimate how pissed off the NRA is about the attack lines the White House has been using." The NRA isn’t the almighty powerful organisation it once was, but they still help fund enough republicans that they would think twice about going up against them.. Trump won’t be scared of them as he changed the structure of the party in that donations mainly go into his political slush fund.. but republicans in the Senate and the House will be a lot more concerned as it makes up a lot more of their campaign funding … | |||
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"Yes, these people are clearly and rightfully so angry about this goon squad coming into their city. Pretti was an incredibly proud American, loved the place and hated what this was doing. It's his right to protest, just because he booted a tail light, that meant he deserved to die? If we want to get real, let's talk about the lying coming from the government? About how he was armed and dangerous and he had his gun out? Which he did not and visibly was holding a phone. And also about the huge contradiction because that rhetoric does not align with NRA at all! These are not police. They are everyday people given a gun. Glorified bandits with licence to do whatever they feel free. If that was an arrest/detaining by a qualified/trained officer, most likely it would have been handled better. These are trigger happy people with their own prejudices towards the situation. The more this behaviour becomes normalised, the more we lose sight on our freedoms. It's absolutely insane that British people are supportive of this and would love to see this here. " It’s the lengths people are trying to go to smear him and trying to get people to not believe what they actually saw… People are coming up with a million and one excuses… but none of them justify him being shot in the back 9/10 times! Even the DHS own preliminary report makes any mention of him brandishing his gun or going for his gun at any point The fact they whisked all the agents “out of state” so quickly tells you they are worried the state will charge them… And I think a criminal negligence murder charge is coming where you are going to see the likes of Bovino,Noem and miller all personally named for the smear campaign they attempted | |||
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"Yes, these people are clearly and rightfully so angry about this goon squad coming into their city. Pretti was an incredibly proud American, loved the place and hated what this was doing. It's his right to protest, just because he booted a tail light, that meant he deserved to die? If we want to get real, let's talk about the lying coming from the government? About how he was armed and dangerous and he had his gun out? Which he did not and visibly was holding a phone. And also about the huge contradiction because that rhetoric does not align with NRA at all! These are not police. They are everyday people given a gun. Glorified bandits with licence to do whatever they feel free. If that was an arrest/detaining by a qualified/trained officer, most likely it would have been handled better. These are trigger happy people with their own prejudices towards the situation. The more this behaviour becomes normalised, the more we lose sight on our freedoms. It's absolutely insane that British people are supportive of this and would love to see this here. " Trumps Gestapo | |||
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" The more this behaviour becomes normalised, the more we lose sight on our freedoms. It's absolutely insane that British people are supportive of this and would love to see this here. " This often puzzles me that some are happy to see such behaviour by authority because 'its them' being treated as such.. Once its the norm and laws are enacted to give police etc the protections under such then 'them becomes all' .. | |||
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"Footage released of Alex Pretti spitting at officers and kicking out their car lights at a previous demonstration. Also reported to have broken a rib in another violent incident. Family concerned about his radicalisation by far left online groups. Then takes a loaded handgun and two full magazines to yet another confrontation. Not quite the innocent bystander he was first portrayed as... Why is that relevant to his being shot multiple times while incapacitated on the ground and after having his holstered firearm removed? He was clearly an aggressive individual looking for confrontation With ICE agents, which activists are encouraged to do. Perhaps if local police had been allowed to do their job he would have been arrested for the first confrontation and not been present at the fatal one ? But didn't deserve to be shot and killed. Think of the behaviour of the climate change protesters in this country over recent years, by your logic anyone of them deserved to be killed for resisting arrest. " Except I've said clearly he didn't deserve to die and the agents were not justified based on the evidence we have. There's no contradiction in that and also believing that Pretti appears to have been a radicalised and aggressive person who sought out confrontation with agents, and also, as the OP says, that his death would have been avoided if local police were allowed to intervene between ICE and protesters. | |||
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" The more this behaviour becomes normalised, the more we lose sight on our freedoms. It's absolutely insane that British people are supportive of this and would love to see this here. This often puzzles me that some are happy to see such behaviour by authority because 'its them' being treated as such.. Once its the norm and laws are enacted to give police etc the protections under such then 'them becomes all' .. " Again, simply projecting opinions which no one has expressed onto others simply because they don't accept your narrative. Very poor way to debate tbh. | |||
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" The more this behaviour becomes normalised, the more we lose sight on our freedoms. It's absolutely insane that British people are supportive of this and would love to see this here. This often puzzles me that some are happy to see such behaviour by authority because 'its them' being treated as such.. Once its the norm and laws are enacted to give police etc the protections under such then 'them becomes all' .. Again, simply projecting opinions which no one has expressed onto others simply because they don't accept your narrative. Very poor way to debate tbh. " Its ok.. You dont understand and that's fine..  | |||
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" The more this behaviour becomes normalised, the more we lose sight on our freedoms. It's absolutely insane that British people are supportive of this and would love to see this here. This often puzzles me that some are happy to see such behaviour by authority because 'its them' being treated as such.. Once its the norm and laws are enacted to give police etc the protections under such then 'them becomes all' .. Again, simply projecting opinions which no one has expressed onto others simply because they don't accept your narrative. Very poor way to debate tbh. Its ok.. You dont understand and that's fine.. "Oh dear 🤦♂️ | |||
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"It seems people are rather upset that their narrative has been challenged with facts." Or facts that are presented as excuses The bbc video that people are now showing as a gotcha… taken on January 13th So does that mean he deserved to be shot in the back unarmed 11 days later…. Because that’s the narrative you are now in effect pushing? Or the incident with the 5 year old and his father being arrested… government said “big bad man”… record shows the only thing he actually had on his record were parking tickets! And was going through the legal system and had not missed one court date But.. you know.. deporting the worst of the worst!  | |||
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"It seems people are rather upset that their narrative has been challenged with facts. Or facts that are presented as excuses The bbc video that people are now showing as a gotcha… taken on January 13th So does that mean he deserved to be shot in the back unarmed 11 days later…. Because that’s the narrative you are now in effect pushing? Or the incident with the 5 year old and his father being arrested… government said “big bad man”… record shows the only thing he actually had on his record were parking tickets! And was going through the legal system and had not missed one court date But.. you know.. deporting the worst of the worst! "Like the 100,000 of thousands of ICE arrests and deportations under Biden and Obama which received very little publicity or mass organised distribution ? | |||
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"I would like to think that if it was me that got shot instead of Alex Pretti, people would be talking about me. Not using whataboutery relating to other presidents and other times. Focus on me. I'm the one's that's dead and my story matters more than anything else." 'More than anything else' ? What about the many victims of violent crimes, including murder, by illegal migrants? If these people are not forcibly arrested and deported then what happens to them, and where is the justice for their victims? | |||
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"It seems people are rather upset that their narrative has been challenged with facts." Talking of facts and narratives, where has the family said Alex Pretti had been radicalised please? His family in all the online quotes I've seen dont mention that? They've said they didnt want him after Renee Good was killed attending any more protests/ warning neighbourhoods etc.. | |||
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"Video appears to show Alex Pretti spit at federal agents, violently damage SUV days before fatal CBP shooting New video appears to show Alex Pretti spitting at federal agents and damaging a government SUV days before he was fatally shot by U.S. Border Patrol agents in Minneapolis. The man is seen shouting and spitting at federal agents before kicking the taillight of a federal SUV, causing it to break. As he shouts "f--- you" repeatedly and flashes double middle fingers, agents exit the vehicle, approach him and take him to the ground This Behaviour alone should void him of being able to carry a Firearm. After stepping away from agents, what appears to be a gun is visible in his waistband. Rather than leave the scene, he remained with other demonstrators who continued shouting obscenities at federal law enforcement officers. . What can we say; Alex Pretti is Clearly a Violent Thug. A violent Thug simply out to cause trouble where ever he can and his Uncontrollable Aggression was directed towards ICE agent's simply doing their job. The ICE agents let him off, even though he should have been jailed, but Alex Pretti not contempt with being let off, goes out again seeking Thuggish Violence again against ICE agents. This is clearly "shown aggression" from Alex Pretti who simply cannot control his anger " His behaviour in the first instance was wrong.. Him wearing his gun is irrelevant to that confrontation.. If you can’t separate two events where the evidence is plain to see then please dont ever if called to, ever sit on a jury.. | |||
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"'More than anything else' ? What about the many victims of violent crimes, including murder, by illegal migrants? If these people are not forcibly arrested and deported then what happens to them, and where is the justice for their victims?" And there it is again. "What about...." . "What about..." is probably the most dangerous tool of deflection and distraction used in any discourse. . What abouts can be discussed in other threads, but in this context, the focus is on Alex Pretti, is it not ? | |||
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"'More than anything else' ? What about the many victims of violent crimes, including murder, by illegal migrants? If these people are not forcibly arrested and deported then what happens to them, and where is the justice for their victims? And there it is again. "What about...." . "What about..." is probably the most dangerous tool of deflection and distraction used in any discourse. . What abouts can be discussed in other threads, but in this context, the focus is on Alex Pretti, is it not ?" No, if you read the OP it's actually about the response of local and state police to the ant ICE protests and riots. | |||
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"Video appears to show Alex Pretti spit at federal agents, violently damage SUV days before fatal CBP shooting New video appears to show Alex Pretti spitting at federal agents and damaging a government SUV days before he was fatally shot by U.S. Border Patrol agents in Minneapolis. The man is seen shouting and spitting at federal agents before kicking the taillight of a federal SUV, causing it to break. As he shouts "f--- you" repeatedly and flashes double middle fingers, agents exit the vehicle, approach him and take him to the ground This Behaviour alone should void him of being able to carry a Firearm. After stepping away from agents, what appears to be a gun is visible in his waistband. Rather than leave the scene, he remained with other demonstrators who continued shouting obscenities at federal law enforcement officers. . What can we say; Alex Pretti is Clearly a Violent Thug. A violent Thug simply out to cause trouble where ever he can and his Uncontrollable Aggression was directed towards ICE agent's simply doing their job. The ICE agents let him off, even though he should have been jailed, but Alex Pretti not contempt with being let off, goes out again seeking Thuggish Violence again against ICE agents. This is clearly "shown aggression" from Alex Pretti who simply cannot control his anger His behaviour in the first instance was wrong.. Him wearing his gun is irrelevant to that confrontation.. If you can’t separate two events where the evidence is plain to see then please dont ever if called to, ever sit on a jury.. " What can we say; Alex Pretti is Clearly a Violent Thug. A violent Thug simply out to cause trouble where ever he can and his Uncontrollable Aggression was directed towards ICE agent's simply doing their job. The ICE agents let him off, even though he should have been jailed, but Alex Pretti not contempt with being let off, goes out again seeking Thuggish Violence again against ICE agents. This is clearly "shown aggression" from Alex Pretti who simply cannot control his anger | |||
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" No, if you read the OP it's actually about the response of local and state police to the ant ICE protests and riots. " Actually, good point. Gosh, threads do meander and go off point. I miss the days of IRC and sub-threads. | |||
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" No, if you read the OP it's actually about the response of local and state police to the ant ICE protests and riots. Actually, good point. Gosh, threads do meander and go off point. I miss the days of IRC and sub-threads." I don't see an issue with diversions if they relate in some way to the main OP, which I think all the comments so far do. | |||
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"It seems people are rather upset that their narrative has been challenged with facts. Talking of facts and narratives, where has the family said Alex Pretti had been radicalised please? His family in all the online quotes I've seen dont mention that? They've said they didnt want him after Renee Good was killed attending any more protests/ warning neighbourhoods etc.. " Apologies but I've asked multiple times on these threads for links, etc and never get an answer so I'm past providing them ! | |||
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"Video appears to show Alex Pretti spit at federal agents, violently damage SUV days before fatal CBP shooting New video appears to show Alex Pretti spitting at federal agents and damaging a government SUV days before he was fatally shot by U.S. Border Patrol agents in Minneapolis. The man is seen shouting and spitting at federal agents before kicking the taillight of a federal SUV, causing it to break. As he shouts "f--- you" repeatedly and flashes double middle fingers, agents exit the vehicle, approach him and take him to the ground This Behaviour alone should void him of being able to carry a Firearm. After stepping away from agents, what appears to be a gun is visible in his waistband. Rather than leave the scene, he remained with other demonstrators who continued shouting obscenities at federal law enforcement officers. . What can we say; Alex Pretti is Clearly a Violent Thug. A violent Thug simply out to cause trouble where ever he can and his Uncontrollable Aggression was directed towards ICE agent's simply doing their job. The ICE agents let him off, even though he should have been jailed, but Alex Pretti not contempt with being let off, goes out again seeking Thuggish Violence again against ICE agents. This is clearly "shown aggression" from Alex Pretti who simply cannot control his anger His behaviour in the first instance was wrong.. Him wearing his gun is irrelevant to that confrontation.. If you can’t separate two events where the evidence is plain to see then please dont ever if called to, ever sit on a jury.. What can we say; Alex Pretti is Clearly a Violent Thug. A violent Thug simply out to cause trouble where ever he can and his Uncontrollable Aggression was directed towards ICE agent's simply doing their job. The ICE agents let him off, even though he should have been jailed, but Alex Pretti not contempt with being let off, goes out again seeking Thuggish Violence again against ICE agents. This is clearly "shown aggression" from Alex Pretti who simply cannot control his anger" At least you haven't praised yourself this time Ray.. 
As i said he was wrong then..
Your evading the facts that the two situations are totally different in his behaviours and the outcome? | |||
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"It seems people are rather upset that their narrative has been challenged with facts. Talking of facts and narratives, where has the family said Alex Pretti had been radicalised please? His family in all the online quotes I've seen dont mention that? They've said they didnt want him after Renee Good was killed attending any more protests/ warning neighbourhoods etc.. Apologies but I've asked multiple times on these threads for links, etc and never get an answer so I'm past providing them ! " As i thought.. Tbh you've never asked me once.. It looks like an attempt to smear a dead person is why I'm asking? | |||
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"Video appears to show Alex Pretti spit at federal agents, violently damage SUV days before fatal CBP shooting New video appears to show Alex Pretti spitting at federal agents and damaging a government SUV days before he was fatally shot by U.S. Border Patrol agents in Minneapolis. The man is seen shouting and spitting at federal agents before kicking the taillight of a federal SUV, causing it to break. As he shouts "f--- you" repeatedly and flashes double middle fingers, agents exit the vehicle, approach him and take him to the ground This Behaviour alone should void him of being able to carry a Firearm. After stepping away from agents, what appears to be a gun is visible in his waistband. Rather than leave the scene, he remained with other demonstrators who continued shouting obscenities at federal law enforcement officers. . What can we say; Alex Pretti is Clearly a Violent Thug. A violent Thug simply out to cause trouble where ever he can and his Uncontrollable Aggression was directed towards ICE agent's simply doing their job. The ICE agents let him off, even though he should have been jailed, but Alex Pretti not contempt with being let off, goes out again seeking Thuggish Violence again against ICE agents. This is clearly "shown aggression" from Alex Pretti who simply cannot control his anger His behaviour in the first instance was wrong.. Him wearing his gun is irrelevant to that confrontation.. If you can’t separate two events where the evidence is plain to see then please dont ever if called to, ever sit on a jury.. What can we say; Alex Pretti is Clearly a Violent Thug. A violent Thug simply out to cause trouble where ever he can and his Uncontrollable Aggression was directed towards ICE agent's simply doing their job. The ICE agents let him off, even though he should have been jailed, but Alex Pretti not contempt with being let off, goes out again seeking Thuggish Violence again against ICE agents. This is clearly "shown aggression" from Alex Pretti who simply cannot control his anger At least you haven't praised yourself this time Ray..
As i said he was wrong then..
Your evading the facts that the two situations are totally different in his behaviours and the outcome?"Not different at all, infact it was clear that he went back for revenge second time round and how many concealed firearms did he have. He was fighting, resisting arrest and had firearms in his possession ICE agents acted correctly and should be recommended for bravery | |||
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"It's almost certain that ICE keep intelligence on activists who disrupt their work (which is a crime that local police are told not to enforce). If they'd studied the first footage of Pretti they would have seen someone who was physically and verbally abusive and carried a gun. I think any reasonable person would conclude from that that he was a credible threat to the safety of ICE officers and this is absolutely relevant to their reaction in the second confrontation. " As wild guesses go.. Ice etc don't wear body cameras for starters.. Plus your talking out intelligence being part of what they do and on the day Pretti was killed they were going after a person who they later lied about who only has previous traffic violations not what was alleged after the killing of Pretti.. Most reasonable people would see another tenuous attempt to justify a homicide.. | |||
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"It's almost certain that ICE keep intelligence on activists who disrupt their work (which is a crime that local police are told not to enforce). If they'd studied the first footage of Pretti they would have seen someone who was physically and verbally abusive and carried a gun. I think any reasonable person would conclude from that that he was a credible threat to the safety of ICE officers and this is absolutely relevant to their reaction in the second confrontation. As wild guesses go.. Ice etc don't wear body cameras for starters.. Plus your talking out intelligence being part of what they do and on the day Pretti was killed they were going after a person who they later lied about who only has previous traffic violations not what was alleged after the killing of Pretti.. Most reasonable people would see another tenuous attempt to justify a homicide.." Ohhhh Please....  | |||
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"Video appears to show Alex Pretti spit at federal agents, violently damage SUV days before fatal CBP shooting New video appears to show Alex Pretti spitting at federal agents and damaging a government SUV days before he was fatally shot by U.S. Border Patrol agents in Minneapolis. The man is seen shouting and spitting at federal agents before kicking the taillight of a federal SUV, causing it to break. As he shouts "f--- you" repeatedly and flashes double middle fingers, agents exit the vehicle, approach him and take him to the ground This Behaviour alone should void him of being able to carry a Firearm. After stepping away from agents, what appears to be a gun is visible in his waistband. Rather than leave the scene, he remained with other demonstrators who continued shouting obscenities at federal law enforcement officers. . What can we say; Alex Pretti is Clearly a Violent Thug. A violent Thug simply out to cause trouble where ever he can and his Uncontrollable Aggression was directed towards ICE agent's simply doing their job. The ICE agents let him off, even though he should have been jailed, but Alex Pretti not contempt with being let off, goes out again seeking Thuggish Violence again against ICE agents. This is clearly "shown aggression" from Alex Pretti who simply cannot control his anger His behaviour in the first instance was wrong.. Him wearing his gun is irrelevant to that confrontation.. If you can’t separate two events where the evidence is plain to see then please dont ever if called to, ever sit on a jury.. What can we say; Alex Pretti is Clearly a Violent Thug. A violent Thug simply out to cause trouble where ever he can and his Uncontrollable Aggression was directed towards ICE agent's simply doing their job. The ICE agents let him off, even though he should have been jailed, but Alex Pretti not contempt with being let off, goes out again seeking Thuggish Violence again against ICE agents. This is clearly "shown aggression" from Alex Pretti who simply cannot control his anger At least you haven't praised yourself this time Ray..
As i said he was wrong then..
Your evading the facts that the two situations are totally different in his behaviours and the outcome?
Not different at all, infact it was clear that he went back for revenge second time round and how many concealed firearms did he have.
He was fighting, resisting arrest and had firearms in his possession
ICE agents acted correctly and should be recommended for bravery "Your thinking when it's put up against the facts, (the same facts that Trump and his administration have got rid of Bovino the ICE commander in the city plus placed the two officers on leave for, the same videos that show what went on as it happened) do shed a light.. Upon how someone can fabricate something they do not and cant know and ignore what they see with their own eyes.. He helped a woman pushed over by the agents, he was maxed doing so and didn't hit or push anyone.. Yes he struggled whilst four or five agents were grappling him and hitting him on the floor.. But he didnt strike any of them.. Your becoming a lone voice in your totally at odds with the reality of the very clear footage.. | |||
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" Not different at all, infact it was clear that he went back for revenge second time round and how many concealed firearms did he have. He was fighting, resisting arrest and had firearms in his possession ICE agents acted correctly and should be recommended for bravery " 1. You have absolutely no evidence that "revenge" was a motivating factor. 2. ICE evidence shows that he had one weapon on him which had been removed before he was shot. 3. Where is the evidence he was fighting. He was attacked while helping a woman to her feet. 4. If you were being pummelled by four or five guys and being pistol whipped would you just lie there and accept it. The man was probably fearing for his life so would naturally struggle. 5. If these brave ICE agents acted correctly why did some of them flee the scene immediately after the shooting? 6. An award for shooting a prone victim 9 or 10 times in the back deserves something but certainly not for bravery. Your comments are taking trolling to an all time low. | |||
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"https://youtu.be/i69D6slpxC8 This should have happened from day 1, avoiding all the escalation, violence, rioting, and deaths. The question remains will Walz and Frey suffer any consequences for their actions? Actions for what!!! They were doing their job. . The two that lost their life's were both at fault, maybe others will learn from this to.... obay the Law." Capital punishment, without trial, isn't a part of the legal process  | |||
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"https://youtu.be/i69D6slpxC8 This should have happened from day 1, avoiding all the escalation, violence, rioting, and deaths. The question remains will Walz and Frey suffer any consequences for their actions? Actions for what!!! They were doing their job. . The two that lost their life's were both at fault, maybe others will learn from this to.... obay the Law. Capital punishment, without trial, isn't a part of the legal process "Would love to know, how many of posters here justifying the shootings. Were getting their knickers in a twist about the punishment handed to the rioters after the Southport stabbings. | |||
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"it appears from the newly released footage from several days previous that the ICE brown shirts had developed a grudge and were actively seeking some kind of percieved retribution on the victim. this premeditation has clearly moved the incident from that of murder 2 to what is now blatently murder 1. " Thank you for confirming what I said earlier that Pretti would have been known as an armed trouble maker. Shame on the online forums which encourage these easily led activists and on the Minnesota Democrats for failing to protect them or the ICE agents. | |||
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"But didn't deserve to be shot and killed. Think of the behaviour of the climate change protesters in this country over recent years, by your logic anyone of them deserved to be killed for resisting arrest." This is appeal to emotion/manipulation attempt/strawman... 'deserve' has nothing to do with it. You've jumped to/injected that all on your own. "It's his right to protest," Doesn't give him the right to commit violent criminal behaviour. Peaceful protest and violent agitation are not the same thing. You know this full well. "just because he booted a tail light, that meant he deserved to die?" No. That's not at all what is being said. This is appeal to emotion/manipulation attempt/strawman... 'deserve' has nothing to do with it. You've jumped to/injected that all on your own. "These are not police." This is a lie. The kind of gaslighting rhetoric that makes vulnerable people like Good and Pretti get themselves killed. Stop. Perpetuating. It. Or do you want there to be more deaths?? "If that was an arrest/detaining by a qualified/trained officer, most likely it would have been handled better." On this I wholeheartedly agree. He should have been arrested by police days ago and would probably still be alive if that had happened. Or, he could have just not broken any laws to begin with... cut out the middle-man, y'know? "These are trigger happy people with their own prejudices towards the situation." Which begs the question why on earth any reasonable, rational person would actively go out and do criminal behaviour, agitating and seeking confrontation with these law enforcement officers to begin with?! "People are coming up with a million and one excuses… but none of them justify him being shot in the back 9/10 times!" This is appeal to emotion/manipulation attempt/strawman... 'justified' has nothing to do with it. You've jumped to/injected that all on your own. "Interestingly his lawfully carried weapon is visible yet even when he's extremely angry it stays there, untouched.." Interestingly, based on the new video footage from the 13th, I doubt his pistol was being lawfully carried any longer. God knows why they let him go. If they had actually arrested him on the 13th he might still be alive, albeit sans... CC license. "Trumps Gestapo" Did the Gestapo wear masks? If not, why not? How do you think they would handle these anti-ICE protests and riots? I'm genuinely asking. It would be refreshing if, for once, I got genuine answers/discussion from my genuine questions. Alas, all I predict is either A) ignored or B) more bad faith/intellectual dishonesty. "Or facts that are presented as excuses" Better that then lies presented as excuses. Wouldn't you agree? "So does that mean he deserved to be shot in the back unarmed 11 days later…" No. As has been repeatedly explained that's not the argument at all. This is appeal to emotion/manipulation attempt/strawman... 'deserve' has nothing to do with it. You've jumped to/injected that all on your own. "Because that’s the narrative you are now in effect pushing?" No it isn't. How many more times does it need spelling out for you? Why are you being deliberately obtuse/bad faith? Because I refuse to believe it's genuine stupidity. "Him wearing his gun is irrelevant to that confrontation.." No it isn't. Him wearing his gun is arguably the single main, major factor that ramped the fatal incident up into him being killed. When officers saw his pistol and one was removing it you hear "he's got a gun! he's got a gun! he's got a gun!" and the first shooter draws his own pistol. Immediately after as the grey topped officer moves away with Pretti's firearm, you hear further shouts of "GUN! GUN! GUN!" and the shooting starts. Afterwards, one of the officers asks in confusion "where's the fucking gun??" and the grey topped officer has to come back over explaining "I got the gun!" ... "you've got the gun?"... "I got the gun" All that happened while Pretti was being wrestled and pinned to the ground by multiple officers... EXACTLY as what happened in the earlier incident footage from the 13th. All it would have taken was for one of the officers to react the same way the ones this time did, and a shooting could have easily have erupted also. "Your evading the facts that the two situations are totally different in his behaviours and the outcome?" They're almost identical at the critical moment. "It looks like an attempt to smear a dead person is why I'm asking?" How can it be a smear if it's an accurate description of what's shown clearly on video? | |||
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"But didn't deserve to be shot and killed. Think of the behaviour of the climate change protesters in this country over recent years, by your logic anyone of them deserved to be killed for resisting arrest. This is appeal to emotion/manipulation attempt/strawman... 'deserve' has nothing to do with it. You've jumped to/injected that all on your own. It's his right to protest, Doesn't give him the right to commit violent criminal behaviour. Peaceful protest and violent agitation are not the same thing. You know this full well. just because he booted a tail light, that meant he deserved to die? No. That's not at all what is being said. This is appeal to emotion/manipulation attempt/strawman... 'deserve' has nothing to do with it. You've jumped to/injected that all on your own. These are not police. This is a lie. The kind of gaslighting rhetoric that makes vulnerable people like Good and Pretti get themselves killed. Stop. Perpetuating. It. Or do you want there to be more deaths?? If that was an arrest/detaining by a qualified/trained officer, most likely it would have been handled better. On this I wholeheartedly agree. He should have been arrested by police days ago and would probably still be alive if that had happened. Or, he could have just not broken any laws to begin with... cut out the middle-man, y'know? These are trigger happy people with their own prejudices towards the situation. Which begs the question why on earth any reasonable, rational person would actively go out and do criminal behaviour, agitating and seeking confrontation with these law enforcement officers to begin with?! People are coming up with a million and one excuses… but none of them justify him being shot in the back 9/10 times! This is appeal to emotion/manipulation attempt/strawman... 'justified' has nothing to do with it. You've jumped to/injected that all on your own. Interestingly his lawfully carried weapon is visible yet even when he's extremely angry it stays there, untouched.. Interestingly, based on the new video footage from the 13th, I doubt his pistol was being lawfully carried any longer. God knows why they let him go. If they had actually arrested him on the 13th he might still be alive, albeit sans... CC license. Trumps Gestapo Did the Gestapo wear masks? If not, why not? How do you think they would handle these anti-ICE protests and riots? I'm genuinely asking. It would be refreshing if, for once, I got genuine answers/discussion from my genuine questions. Alas, all I predict is either A) ignored or B) more bad faith/intellectual dishonesty. Or facts that are presented as excuses Better that then lies presented as excuses. Wouldn't you agree? So does that mean he deserved to be shot in the back unarmed 11 days later… No. As has been repeatedly explained that's not the argument at all. This is appeal to emotion/manipulation attempt/strawman... 'deserve' has nothing to do with it. You've jumped to/injected that all on your own. Because that’s the narrative you are now in effect pushing? No it isn't. How many more times does it need spelling out for you? Why are you being deliberately obtuse/bad faith? Because I refuse to believe it's genuine stupidity. Him wearing his gun is irrelevant to that confrontation.. No it isn't. Him wearing his gun is arguably the single main, major factor that ramped the fatal incident up into him being killed. When officers saw his pistol and one was removing it you hear "he's got a gun! he's got a gun! he's got a gun!" and the first shooter draws his own pistol. Immediately after as the grey topped officer moves away with Pretti's firearm, you hear further shouts of "GUN! GUN! GUN!" and the shooting starts. Afterwards, one of the officers asks in confusion "where's the fucking gun??" and the grey topped officer has to come back over explaining "I got the gun!" ... "you've got the gun?"... "I got the gun" All that happened while Pretti was being wrestled and pinned to the ground by multiple officers... EXACTLY as what happened in the earlier incident footage from the 13th. All it would have taken was for one of the officers to react the same way the ones this time did, and a shooting could have easily have erupted also. Your evading the facts that the two situations are totally different in his behaviours and the outcome? They're almost identical at the critical moment. It looks like an attempt to smear a dead person is why I'm asking? How can it be a smear if it's an accurate description of what's shown clearly on video?" Oh, exactly what I meant when I wrote about people deluding themselves on the interpretation of a video for the sake of depicting the ICE agents as victims. | |||
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"Poor old Bruce 🤣🤣🤣" I hear Springsteen's new song is a Pretti-Good song 🤣😂🤣 | |||
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"Poor old Bruce 🤣🤣🤣 I hear Springsteen's new song is a Pretti-Good song 🤣😂🤣" I heard all his concerts are going to be border free. | |||
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"Poor old Bruce 🤣🤣🤣 I hear Springsteen's new song is a Pretti-Good song 🤣😂🤣 I heard all his concerts are going to be border free. "Apparently his Minneapolis fans are; Born to Run | |||
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"Oh, exactly what I meant when I wrote about people deluding themselves on the interpretation of a video for the sake of depicting the ICE agents as victims. "I'm not sure that this makes any sense. Can you elaborate with examples? Any? Just one?? | |||
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"Oh, exactly what I meant when I wrote about people deluding themselves on the interpretation of a video for the sake of depicting the ICE agents as victims.
I'm not sure that this makes any sense. Can you elaborate with examples? Any? Just one??"He might not… but I certainly can… Literally on the Sunday morning News shows both Bovino on CNN and Scott Bessant, the government representative (treasury secretary) on CBS both called Pretti the “suspect” and the ICE agents “the victims” Even if you see the new analysis… if you were to try and argue agent 1 put 4 bullets in his back whilst on his knees, that that was legitimate…. Agent 2 then putting another 5 bullets in his back whilst motionless on the floor… think we are defending the indefensible there It’s so blatant that the DOJ finally had to open up a civil rights investigation… although it took them 5 days going after everyone else and vehemently saying they wouldn’t… I am expecting a sham investigation At this point the only people who anyone are going trust are the state’s own investigators, especially since they have actually talked to and gotten the footage from the bystanders.. and the FBI have literally not bothered | |||
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"Oh, exactly what I meant when I wrote about people deluding themselves on the interpretation of a video for the sake of depicting the ICE agents as victims.
I'm not sure that this makes any sense. Can you elaborate with examples? Any? Just one??
He might not… but I certainly can…
Literally on the Sunday morning News shows both Bovino on CNN and Scott Bessant, the government representative (treasury secretary) on CBS both called Pretti the “suspect” and the ICE agents “the victims”
Even if you see the new analysis… if you were to try and argue agent 1 put 4 bullets in his back whilst on his knees, that that was legitimate…. Agent 2 then putting another 5 bullets in his back whilst motionless on the floor… think we are defending the indefensible there
It’s so blatant that the DOJ finally had to open up a civil rights investigation… although it took them 5 days going after everyone else and vehemently saying they wouldn’t… I am expecting a sham investigation
At this point the only people who anyone are going trust are the state’s own investigators, especially since they have actually talked to and gotten the footage from the bystanders.. and the FBI have literally not bothered "Yet again you’re laundering your (highly biased) opinion as expert knowledge, when in reality your strike rate is worse than Mystic Meg’s. By the way, how is Novak Djokovic doing? | |||
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"Oh, exactly what I meant when I wrote about people deluding themselves on the interpretation of a video for the sake of depicting the ICE agents as victims.
I'm not sure that this makes any sense. Can you elaborate with examples? Any? Just one??
He might not… but I certainly can…
Literally on the Sunday morning News shows both Bovino on CNN and Scott Bessant, the government representative (treasury secretary) on CBS both called Pretti the “suspect” and the ICE agents “the victims”
Even if you see the new analysis… if you were to try and argue agent 1 put 4 bullets in his back whilst on his knees, that that was legitimate…. Agent 2 then putting another 5 bullets in his back whilst motionless on the floor… think we are defending the indefensible there
It’s so blatant that the DOJ finally had to open up a civil rights investigation… although it took them 5 days going after everyone else and vehemently saying they wouldn’t… I am expecting a sham investigation
At this point the only people who anyone are going trust are the state’s own investigators, especially since they have actually talked to and gotten the footage from the bystanders.. and the FBI have literally not bothered
Yet again you’re laundering your (highly biased) opinion as expert knowledge, when in reality your strike rate is worse than Mystic Meg’s.
By the way, how is Novak Djokovic doing? "🎯 | |||
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"Oh, exactly what I meant when I wrote about people deluding themselves on the interpretation of a video for the sake of depicting the ICE agents as victims.
I'm not sure that this makes any sense. Can you elaborate with examples? Any? Just one??
He might not… but I certainly can…
Literally on the Sunday morning News shows both Bovino on CNN and Scott Bessant, the government representative (treasury secretary) on CBS both called Pretti the “suspect” and the ICE agents “the victims”
Even if you see the new analysis… if you were to try and argue agent 1 put 4 bullets in his back whilst on his knees, that that was legitimate…. Agent 2 then putting another 5 bullets in his back whilst motionless on the floor… think we are defending the indefensible there
It’s so blatant that the DOJ finally had to open up a civil rights investigation… although it took them 5 days going after everyone else and vehemently saying they wouldn’t… I am expecting a sham investigation
At this point the only people who anyone are going trust are the state’s own investigators, especially since they have actually talked to and gotten the footage from the bystanders.. and the FBI have literally not bothered
Yet again you’re laundering your (highly biased) opinion as expert knowledge, when in reality your strike rate is worse than Mystic Meg’s.
By the way, how is Novak Djokovic doing? "What.. the first 4 bullets into him from agent 1…. Or the 2nd 5 bullets put into him by agent 2? https://youtu.be/j3xwgrMiO7o?si=bAKZOlNItc9qNMQ_ - interview with pink jumper lady https://youtu.be/jxI-QohWDBQ?si=E2LuQJAZeAf0Bt22 - interview with car owner in front of incident I know you won’t bother watching either…. But the last question asked to both ladies is “have the FBI or DHS been in contact with you to ask any questions?” And the answer is no…. Then it can’t be the most thorough investigation can it! | |||
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"Literally on the Sunday morning News shows both Bovino on CNN and Scott Bessant, the government representative (treasury secretary) on CBS both called Pretti the “suspect” and the ICE agents “the victims”" I'm not Bovino, I'm not Scott Bessant, I'm not CNN, I'm not CBS... this isn't an example of anything from my post that _ondiego85 quoted, nor an explanation of how anything in that post is a "deluded interpretation" of the video footage described. "Even if you see the new analysis… if you were to try and argue agent 1 put 4 bullets in his back whilst on his knees, that that was legitimate…. Agent 2 then putting another 5 bullets in his back whilst motionless on the floor… think we are defending the indefensible there" What has any of this got to do with anything from my post that _ondiego85 quoted? Also, I believe that the second round of shots came from both agents and not just the second one to fire. "It’s so blatant that the DOJ finally had to open up a civil rights investigation… although it took them 5 days going after everyone else and vehemently saying they wouldn’t… I am expecting a sham investigation At this point the only people who anyone are going trust are the state’s own investigators, especially since they have actually talked to and gotten the footage from the bystanders.. and the FBI have literally not bothered" Meanwhile, what's not blatant is what any of this has to do with anything I said in my post that _ondiego85 quoted? Or how this is an example of something from my post that points to being "deluded interpretation" of the video footage? Y'know, when I was at uni I once failed a 2500 word essay, which was very unusual for me and I still remember the shock when the teacher told me. When I asked the reason it was simple; "you never answered the question given in the essay title". Dumbfounded, I re-read the title of the essay and realised they were 100% correct. I'd reframed it entirely and spent 2500 words on a self-imposed tangent... I think I now know how my teacher felt in that moment.  | |||
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"Oh, exactly what I meant when I wrote about people deluding themselves on the interpretation of a video for the sake of depicting the ICE agents as victims.
I'm not sure that this makes any sense. Can you elaborate with examples? Any? Just one??"A man carrying a weapon as per his rights in the US was filming an ICE operation with his phone. A few seconds later, the agents remove his weapon (which he never reached for), pin him on the ground and shoot him 10 times. Still, people are trying to delude themselves into believing that he was a dangerous attacker. Despite clear video evidence that anyone can see. One can be in agreement or not with trump’s current immigration policy, but what happened to the two american citizens killed by ICE is abhorrent. | |||
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"Oh, exactly what I meant when I wrote about people deluding themselves on the interpretation of a video for the sake of depicting the ICE agents as victims.
I'm not sure that this makes any sense. Can you elaborate with examples? Any? Just one??
He might not… but I certainly can…
Literally on the Sunday morning News shows both Bovino on CNN and Scott Bessant, the government representative (treasury secretary) on CBS both called Pretti the “suspect” and the ICE agents “the victims”
Even if you see the new analysis… if you were to try and argue agent 1 put 4 bullets in his back whilst on his knees, that that was legitimate…. Agent 2 then putting another 5 bullets in his back whilst motionless on the floor… think we are defending the indefensible there
It’s so blatant that the DOJ finally had to open up a civil rights investigation… although it took them 5 days going after everyone else and vehemently saying they wouldn’t… I am expecting a sham investigation
At this point the only people who anyone are going trust are the state’s own investigators, especially since they have actually talked to and gotten the footage from the bystanders.. and the FBI have literally not bothered "Thanks _abio, I replied now. Whether it was worth, or it’s a waste of time because people are so biased they can’t believe their eyes, we’ll see. Again: we’re not discussing trump’s policies. We’re discussing the fact that he tasked with those policies a bunch of wholly incompetent agents who shoot before asking questions, and as a result two protesters, two American citizens died. Imagine what these people would say if someone died in the uk as a result of a protest against police. | |||
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"Footage released of Alex Pretti spitting at officers and kicking out their car lights at a previous demonstration. Also reported to have broken a rib in another violent incident. Family concerned about his radicalisation by far left online groups. Then takes a loaded handgun and two full magazines to yet another confrontation. Not quite the innocent bystander he was first portrayed as..." They are always out with a narrative, and then the fab political key board warriors come out adding their narrative. Must have been an interesting conversation with walz and fry from President Trump as at least little timmys tune has changed! | |||
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"Oh, exactly what I meant when I wrote about people deluding themselves on the interpretation of a video for the sake of depicting the ICE agents as victims.
I'm not sure that this makes any sense. Can you elaborate with examples? Any? Just one??
The lack of people looking at the facts in both cases and choosing to base their judgement on agenda driven sources is abhorrent or an issue if hate for everything Trump.
A man carrying a weapon as per his rights in the US was filming an ICE operation with his phone. A few seconds later, the agents remove his weapon (which he never reached for), pin him on the ground and shoot him 10 times. Still, people are trying to delude themselves into believing that he was a dangerous attacker. Despite clear video evidence that anyone can see.
One can be in agreement or not with trump’s current immigration policy, but what happened to the two american citizens killed by ICE is abhorrent. " | |||
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"Oh, exactly what I meant when I wrote about people deluding themselves on the interpretation of a video for the sake of depicting the ICE agents as victims.
I'm not sure that this makes any sense. Can you elaborate with examples? Any? Just one??
A man carrying a weapon as per his rights in the US was filming an ICE operation with his phone. A few seconds later, the agents remove his weapon (which he never reached for), pin him on the ground and shoot him 10 times. Still, people are trying to delude themselves into believing that he was a dangerous attacker. Despite clear video evidence that anyone can see.
One can be in agreement or not with trump’s current immigration policy, but what happened to the two american citizens killed by ICE is abhorrent. "He was a Dangerous attacker who previously attacked and damaged a ICE officer's car, and simply returned for vengeance | |||
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"Oh, exactly what I meant when I wrote about people deluding themselves on the interpretation of a video for the sake of depicting the ICE agents as victims.
I'm not sure that this makes any sense. Can you elaborate with examples? Any? Just one??
A man carrying a weapon as per his rights in the US was filming an ICE operation with his phone. A few seconds later, the agents remove his weapon (which he never reached for), pin him on the ground and shoot him 10 times. Still, people are trying to delude themselves into believing that he was a dangerous attacker. Despite clear video evidence that anyone can see.
One can be in agreement or not with trump’s current immigration policy, but what happened to the two american citizens killed by ICE is abhorrent.
He was a Dangerous attacker who previously attacked and damaged a ICE officer's car, and simply returned for vengeance "That’s your interpretation, based on what? Also, that does not justify his killing, especially because the officers unarmed him and pinned him to the ground (video evidence available) so he was not dangerous. He wasn’t dangerous before, given he was simply protesting and filming with a phone. I’ve seen plenty of d*unk, high on substances people at the last march organised by the coward with a fake name and no clear income in London. Many of these cream of the crop types were quite aggressive and carrying batons disguised as flags. Some even damaged property/police vans and cars. Based on your metric, how many should have been shot by the police? | |||
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"Oh, exactly what I meant when I wrote about people deluding themselves on the interpretation of a video for the sake of depicting the ICE agents as victims.
I'm not sure that this makes any sense. Can you elaborate with examples? Any? Just one??
He might not… but I certainly can…
Literally on the Sunday morning News shows both Bovino on CNN and Scott Bessant, the government representative (treasury secretary) on CBS both called Pretti the “suspect” and the ICE agents “the victims”
Even if you see the new analysis… if you were to try and argue agent 1 put 4 bullets in his back whilst on his knees, that that was legitimate…. Agent 2 then putting another 5 bullets in his back whilst motionless on the floor… think we are defending the indefensible there
It’s so blatant that the DOJ finally had to open up a civil rights investigation… although it took them 5 days going after everyone else and vehemently saying they wouldn’t… I am expecting a sham investigation
At this point the only people who anyone are going trust are the state’s own investigators, especially since they have actually talked to and gotten the footage from the bystanders.. and the FBI have literally not bothered
Thanks _abio, I replied now.
Whether it was worth, or it’s a waste of time because people are so biased they can’t believe their eyes, we’ll see.
Again: we’re not discussing trump’s policies. We’re discussing the fact that he tasked with those policies a bunch of wholly incompetent agents who shoot before asking questions, and as a result two protesters, two American citizens died.
Imagine what these people would say if someone died in the uk as a result of a protest against police. "The UK and the US are not comparable, however if we levelled that out and imagined protestors here carrying guns, I would expect the same outcomes to happen. Would you? | |||
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" He was a Dangerous attacker who previously attacked and damaged a ICE officer's car, and simply returned for vengeance " Simply returned for vengeance……… 13 days later? My god! In ray’s world the bloke must have been seething… that grudge.. pent up! Yeah…. Erm… I think that’s what we call a bit of a reach! | |||
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"Oh, exactly what I meant when I wrote about people deluding themselves on the interpretation of a video for the sake of depicting the ICE agents as victims.
I'm not sure that this makes any sense. Can you elaborate with examples? Any? Just one??
A man carrying a weapon as per his rights in the US was filming an ICE operation with his phone. A few seconds later, the agents remove his weapon (which he never reached for), pin him on the ground and shoot him 10 times. Still, people are trying to delude themselves into believing that he was a dangerous attacker. Despite clear video evidence that anyone can see.
One can be in agreement or not with trump’s current immigration policy, but what happened to the two american citizens killed by ICE is abhorrent. "Isn't Trump himself the number one supporter of the right to carry arms ? | |||
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"Oh, exactly what I meant when I wrote about people deluding themselves on the interpretation of a video for the sake of depicting the ICE agents as victims.
I'm not sure that this makes any sense. Can you elaborate with examples? Any? Just one??
He might not… but I certainly can…
Literally on the Sunday morning News shows both Bovino on CNN and Scott Bessant, the government representative (treasury secretary) on CBS both called Pretti the “suspect” and the ICE agents “the victims”
Even if you see the new analysis… if you were to try and argue agent 1 put 4 bullets in his back whilst on his knees, that that was legitimate…. Agent 2 then putting another 5 bullets in his back whilst motionless on the floor… think we are defending the indefensible there
It’s so blatant that the DOJ finally had to open up a civil rights investigation… although it took them 5 days going after everyone else and vehemently saying they wouldn’t… I am expecting a sham investigation
At this point the only people who anyone are going trust are the state’s own investigators, especially since they have actually talked to and gotten the footage from the bystanders.. and the FBI have literally not bothered
Thanks _abio, I replied now.
Whether it was worth, or it’s a waste of time because people are so biased they can’t believe their eyes, we’ll see.
Again: we’re not discussing trump’s policies. We’re discussing the fact that he tasked with those policies a bunch of wholly incompetent agents who shoot before asking questions, and as a result two protesters, two American citizens died.
Imagine what these people would say if someone died in the uk as a result of a protest against police.
The UK and the US are not comparable, however if we levelled that out and imagined protestors here carrying guns, I would expect the same outcomes to happen.
Would you?"You can’t level it out, for a simple reason: in the uk it’s illegal to carry a weapon in public, while in the US it is a constitutional right. Sorry, your comparison doesn’t make sense. | |||
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"Oh, exactly what I meant when I wrote about people deluding themselves on the interpretation of a video for the sake of depicting the ICE agents as victims.
I'm not sure that this makes any sense. Can you elaborate with examples? Any? Just one??
A man carrying a weapon as per his rights in the US was filming an ICE operation with his phone. A few seconds later, the agents remove his weapon (which he never reached for), pin him on the ground and shoot him 10 times. Still, people are trying to delude themselves into believing that he was a dangerous attacker. Despite clear video evidence that anyone can see.
One can be in agreement or not with trump’s current immigration policy, but what happened to the two american citizens killed by ICE is abhorrent.
Isn't Trump himself the number one supporter of the right to carry arms ?"He is. He’s not the only one - few people dare going against the NRA lobby in the US, in fact when they criticised trump because he said pretti deserved it because he was carrying a gun, he reined in pretty quickly. | |||
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" He was a Dangerous attacker who previously attacked and damaged a ICE officer's car, and simply returned for vengeance Simply returned for vengeance……… 13 days later? My god! In ray’s world the bloke must have been seething… that grudge.. pent up! Yeah…. Erm… I think that’s what we call a bit of a reach! "When you watch V for vendetta too many times | |||
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"Oh, exactly what I meant when I wrote about people deluding themselves on the interpretation of a video for the sake of depicting the ICE agents as victims.
I'm not sure that this makes any sense. Can you elaborate with examples? Any? Just one??
He might not… but I certainly can…
Literally on the Sunday morning News shows both Bovino on CNN and Scott Bessant, the government representative (treasury secretary) on CBS both called Pretti the “suspect” and the ICE agents “the victims”
Even if you see the new analysis… if you were to try and argue agent 1 put 4 bullets in his back whilst on his knees, that that was legitimate…. Agent 2 then putting another 5 bullets in his back whilst motionless on the floor… think we are defending the indefensible there
It’s so blatant that the DOJ finally had to open up a civil rights investigation… although it took them 5 days going after everyone else and vehemently saying they wouldn’t… I am expecting a sham investigation
At this point the only people who anyone are going trust are the state’s own investigators, especially since they have actually talked to and gotten the footage from the bystanders.. and the FBI have literally not bothered
Thanks _abio, I replied now.
Whether it was worth, or it’s a waste of time because people are so biased they can’t believe their eyes, we’ll see.
Again: we’re not discussing trump’s policies. We’re discussing the fact that he tasked with those policies a bunch of wholly incompetent agents who shoot before asking questions, and as a result two protesters, two American citizens died.
Imagine what these people would say if someone died in the uk as a result of a protest against police.
The UK and the US are not comparable, however if we levelled that out and imagined protestors here carrying guns, I would expect the same outcomes to happen.
Would you?
You can’t level it out, for a simple reason: in the uk it’s illegal to carry a weapon in public, while in the US it is a constitutional right.
Sorry, your comparison doesn’t make sense."Which is my point when you mentioned if Police here were to kill a protestor. The 2 things are not comparable as I mentioned in the opening of my post. If we did assume a comparison I would expect the same type of outcomes. | |||
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"Oh, exactly what I meant when I wrote about people deluding themselves on the interpretation of a video for the sake of depicting the ICE agents as victims.
I'm not sure that this makes any sense. Can you elaborate with examples? Any? Just one??
A man carrying a weapon as per his rights in the US was filming an ICE operation with his phone. A few seconds later, the agents remove his weapon (which he never reached for), pin him on the ground and shoot him 10 times. Still, people are trying to delude themselves into believing that he was a dangerous attacker. Despite clear video evidence that anyone can see.
One can be in agreement or not with trump’s current immigration policy, but what happened to the two american citizens killed by ICE is abhorrent.
Isn't Trump himself the number one supporter of the right to carry arms ?
He is. He’s not the only one - few people dare going against the NRA lobby in the US, in fact when they criticised trump because he said pretti deserved it because he was carrying a gun, he reined in pretty quickly."So it's ok to shoot and kill people exercising their constitutional right of carrying a firearm and protesting. Ok .. nice ..... | |||
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"Also great to see the father and the 5 year old have been ordered to be released from detention by a federal court judge in Texas And the DOJ got slaughtered in the opinion saying it should never have happened and the fact that ICE is basically now working on a quota of people they need to catch and deport is immoral This is another story where the government version of what happened has fallen apart! They said the dad was a bad criminal…. When in fact he was going through the asylum process correctly, had never missed a court ordered appointment, and the only thing on his record were driving tickets! They tried to use the 5 year old as bait… and refused to allow him to stay with the mother or any family " How did ICE come to have the child? | |||
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"Also great to see the father and the 5 year old have been ordered to be released from detention by a federal court judge in Texas And the DOJ got slaughtered in the opinion saying it should never have happened and the fact that ICE is basically now working on a quota of people they need to catch and deport is immoral This is another story where the government version of what happened has fallen apart! They said the dad was a bad criminal…. When in fact he was going through the asylum process correctly, had never missed a court ordered appointment, and the only thing on his record were driving tickets! They tried to use the 5 year old as bait… and refused to allow him to stay with the mother or any family How did ICE come to have the child?" ICE story is that the father asked for the child to come with him Everyone else’s story (the mother, and the family, the school and the head of the school board who just happened to be passing as the incident was taking place) is that they all offered individually to take the child in and to take the child’s to the mother once the ICE agents had left… to which the agents refused | |||
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"Also great to see the father and the 5 year old have been ordered to be released from detention by a federal court judge in Texas And the DOJ got slaughtered in the opinion saying it should never have happened and the fact that ICE is basically now working on a quota of people they need to catch and deport is immoral This is another story where the government version of what happened has fallen apart! They said the dad was a bad criminal…. When in fact he was going through the asylum process correctly, had never missed a court ordered appointment, and the only thing on his record were driving tickets! They tried to use the 5 year old as bait… and refused to allow him to stay with the mother or any family How did ICE come to have the child? ICE story is that the father asked for the child to come with him Everyone else’s story (the mother, and the family, the school and the head of the school board who just happened to be passing as the incident was taking place) is that they all offered individually to take the child in and to take the child’s to the mother once the ICE agents had left… to which the agents refused " Got it, so the child ended up in a government ran facility when they could have been at home? | |||
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"Oh, exactly what I meant when I wrote about people deluding themselves on the interpretation of a video for the sake of depicting the ICE agents as victims.
I'm not sure that this makes any sense. Can you elaborate with examples? Any? Just one??
He might not… but I certainly can…
Literally on the Sunday morning News shows both Bovino on CNN and Scott Bessant, the government representative (treasury secretary) on CBS both called Pretti the “suspect” and the ICE agents “the victims”
Even if you see the new analysis… if you were to try and argue agent 1 put 4 bullets in his back whilst on his knees, that that was legitimate…. Agent 2 then putting another 5 bullets in his back whilst motionless on the floor… think we are defending the indefensible there
It’s so blatant that the DOJ finally had to open up a civil rights investigation… although it took them 5 days going after everyone else and vehemently saying they wouldn’t… I am expecting a sham investigation
At this point the only people who anyone are going trust are the state’s own investigators, especially since they have actually talked to and gotten the footage from the bystanders.. and the FBI have literally not bothered
Thanks _abio, I replied now.
Whether it was worth, or it’s a waste of time because people are so biased they can’t believe their eyes, we’ll see.
Again: we’re not discussing trump’s policies. We’re discussing the fact that he tasked with those policies a bunch of wholly incompetent agents who shoot before asking questions, and as a result two protesters, two American citizens died.
Imagine what these people would say if someone died in the uk as a result of a protest against police.
The UK and the US are not comparable, however if we levelled that out and imagined protestors here carrying guns, I would expect the same outcomes to happen.
Would you?
You can’t level it out, for a simple reason: in the uk it’s illegal to carry a weapon in public, while in the US it is a constitutional right.
Sorry, your comparison doesn’t make sense.
Which is my point when you mentioned if Police here were to kill a protestor. The 2 things are not comparable as I mentioned in the opening of my post.
If we did assume a comparison I would expect the same type of outcomes. "No, you cannot make a comparison based on the presence of a weapon, but you can if you base it on the protesters behaviour. Hence tell me: if a rowdy protester was killed by the police in the uk despite being not a mortal threat for the officers, would you consider it normal? Especially when it’s clear from the evidence that they had plenty of ways to de-escalate without using deadly force? | |||
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"Oh, exactly what I meant when I wrote about people deluding themselves on the interpretation of a video for the sake of depicting the ICE agents as victims.
I'm not sure that this makes any sense. Can you elaborate with examples? Any? Just one??
A man carrying a weapon as per his rights in the US was filming an ICE operation with his phone. A few seconds later, the agents remove his weapon (which he never reached for), pin him on the ground and shoot him 10 times. Still, people are trying to delude themselves into believing that he was a dangerous attacker. Despite clear video evidence that anyone can see.
One can be in agreement or not with trump’s current immigration policy, but what happened to the two american citizens killed by ICE is abhorrent.
Isn't Trump himself the number one supporter of the right to carry arms ?
He is. He’s not the only one - few people dare going against the NRA lobby in the US, in fact when they criticised trump because he said pretti deserved it because he was carrying a gun, he reined in pretty quickly.
So it's ok to shoot and kill people exercising their constitutional right of carrying a firearm and protesting.
Ok .. nice ....."This is NOT what I wrote. Or maybe you were replying to another user? | |||
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"I understand that it was this poor guy's right to carry a weapon, but what was his need to? Various news sources have reported his weapon as being a Sig Sauer P320 9mm high-velocity pistol, according to google, the magazine of which carries 15 rounds, plus one in the chamber. It's also reported he had carrying a second magazine as well, presumably with another 15 rounds in it. I was a paramedic for over 25 years, and in that time I did a few Red Cross missions to some real shit-hole areas, usually alongside local military forces, and was offered a side-arm for my protection on many occasions, but I always refused. My ethos is to preserve life, not take it. Why did a civilian ICU nurse, a person committed to the protection and preservation of life, feel the need to go out in his local area armed with the ability to end over 30 lives?" This is a perfectly fine question, but irrelevant to what happened. I don’t know how many protesters carried a gun but given it’s their right as it’s our right to carry a phone, it’s irrelevant as long as they don’t use it. You are trying to measure the americans with our culture: for us it’s inconceivable to carry a gun (or a knife, a machete, a baton) and we would call the police if we saw someone with one, in the US no one would find it strange. I mean, our police do not carry guns most of the time. The ICE agents look like they’re ready for war when all they need to do is to apprehend illegal immigrants. | |||
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"Oh, exactly what I meant when I wrote about people deluding themselves on the interpretation of a video for the sake of depicting the ICE agents as victims.
I'm not sure that this makes any sense. Can you elaborate with examples? Any? Just one??
He might not… but I certainly can…
Literally on the Sunday morning News shows both Bovino on CNN and Scott Bessant, the government representative (treasury secretary) on CBS both called Pretti the “suspect” and the ICE agents “the victims”
Even if you see the new analysis… if you were to try and argue agent 1 put 4 bullets in his back whilst on his knees, that that was legitimate…. Agent 2 then putting another 5 bullets in his back whilst motionless on the floor… think we are defending the indefensible there
It’s so blatant that the DOJ finally had to open up a civil rights investigation… although it took them 5 days going after everyone else and vehemently saying they wouldn’t… I am expecting a sham investigation
At this point the only people who anyone are going trust are the state’s own investigators, especially since they have actually talked to and gotten the footage from the bystanders.. and the FBI have literally not bothered
Thanks _abio, I replied now.
Whether it was worth, or it’s a waste of time because people are so biased they can’t believe their eyes, we’ll see.
Again: we’re not discussing trump’s policies. We’re discussing the fact that he tasked with those policies a bunch of wholly incompetent agents who shoot before asking questions, and as a result two protesters, two American citizens died.
Imagine what these people would say if someone died in the uk as a result of a protest against police.
The UK and the US are not comparable, however if we levelled that out and imagined protestors here carrying guns, I would expect the same outcomes to happen.
Would you?
You can’t level it out, for a simple reason: in the uk it’s illegal to carry a weapon in public, while in the US it is a constitutional right.
Sorry, your comparison doesn’t make sense.
Which is my point when you mentioned if Police here were to kill a protestor. The 2 things are not comparable as I mentioned in the opening of my post.
If we did assume a comparison I would expect the same type of outcomes.
No, you cannot make a comparison based on the presence of a weapon, but you can if you base it on the protesters behaviour. Hence tell me: if a rowdy protester was killed by the police in the uk despite being not a mortal threat for the officers, would you consider it normal? Especially when it’s clear from the evidence that they had plenty of ways to de-escalate without using deadly force?"you brought up the UK police, I said it was not comparable. Lets leave it hare, you are not seeing the tie in to the gun no gun. | |||
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"I understand that it was this poor guy's right to carry a weapon, but what was his need to? Various news sources have reported his weapon as being a Sig Sauer P320 9mm high-velocity pistol, according to google, the magazine of which carries 15 rounds, plus one in the chamber. It's also reported he had carrying a second magazine as well, presumably with another 15 rounds in it. I was a paramedic for over 25 years, and in that time I did a few Red Cross missions to some real shit-hole areas, usually alongside local military forces, and was offered a side-arm for my protection on many occasions, but I always refused. My ethos is to preserve life, not take it. Why did a civilian ICU nurse, a person committed to the protection and preservation of life, feel the need to go out in his local area armed with the ability to end over 30 lives?" Because he was a person consistently exhibiting antisocial, impulsive, manipulative, and aggressive behaviour of which was obvious with his previous accounter where he was on camera giving abuse to ice agent's and openly damaging their transportation. But unhappy with just wrecking their car, he returns a few days later to cause further havoc. ICE agent's clearly did not know how many firearms he had hidden on his body, so they apprehended with caution and protection to themselves. | |||
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"I understand that it was this poor guy's right to carry a weapon, but what was his need to? Various news sources have reported his weapon as being a Sig Sauer P320 9mm high-velocity pistol, according to google, the magazine of which carries 15 rounds, plus one in the chamber. It's also reported he had carrying a second magazine as well, presumably with another 15 rounds in it. I was a paramedic for over 25 years, and in that time I did a few Red Cross missions to some real shit-hole areas, usually alongside local military forces, and was offered a side-arm for my protection on many occasions, but I always refused. My ethos is to preserve life, not take it. Why did a civilian ICU nurse, a person committed to the protection and preservation of life, feel the need to go out in his local area armed with the ability to end over 30 lives? Because he was a person consistently exhibiting antisocial, impulsive, manipulative, and aggressive behaviour of which was obvious with his previous accounter where he was on camera giving abuse to ice agent's and openly damaging their transportation. But unhappy with just wrecking their car, he returns a few days later to cause further havoc. ICE agent's clearly did not know how many firearms he had hidden on his body, so they apprehended with caution and protection to themselves. " Bizarre how people think the right to own a gun means it is compulsory to carry it in public ! Also had Pretti been arrested at his first confrontation with police he almost certainly would have had his permit suspended. | |||
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"Oh, exactly what I meant when I wrote about people deluding themselves on the interpretation of a video for the sake of depicting the ICE agents as victims.
I'm not sure that this makes any sense. Can you elaborate with examples? Any? Just one??
He might not… but I certainly can…
Literally on the Sunday morning News shows both Bovino on CNN and Scott Bessant, the government representative (treasury secretary) on CBS both called Pretti the “suspect” and the ICE agents “the victims”
Even if you see the new analysis… if you were to try and argue agent 1 put 4 bullets in his back whilst on his knees, that that was legitimate…. Agent 2 then putting another 5 bullets in his back whilst motionless on the floor… think we are defending the indefensible there
It’s so blatant that the DOJ finally had to open up a civil rights investigation… although it took them 5 days going after everyone else and vehemently saying they wouldn’t… I am expecting a sham investigation
At this point the only people who anyone are going trust are the state’s own investigators, especially since they have actually talked to and gotten the footage from the bystanders.. and the FBI have literally not bothered
Thanks _abio, I replied now.
Whether it was worth, or it’s a waste of time because people are so biased they can’t believe their eyes, we’ll see.
Again: we’re not discussing trump’s policies. We’re discussing the fact that he tasked with those policies a bunch of wholly incompetent agents who shoot before asking questions, and as a result two protesters, two American citizens died.
Imagine what these people would say if someone died in the uk as a result of a protest against police.
The UK and the US are not comparable, however if we levelled that out and imagined protestors here carrying guns, I would expect the same outcomes to happen.
Would you?
You can’t level it out, for a simple reason: in the uk it’s illegal to carry a weapon in public, while in the US it is a constitutional right.
Sorry, your comparison doesn’t make sense.
Which is my point when you mentioned if Police here were to kill a protestor. The 2 things are not comparable as I mentioned in the opening of my post.
If we did assume a comparison I would expect the same type of outcomes.
No, you cannot make a comparison based on the presence of a weapon, but you can if you base it on the protesters behaviour. Hence tell me: if a rowdy protester was killed by the police in the uk despite being not a mortal threat for the officers, would you consider it normal? Especially when it’s clear from the evidence that they had plenty of ways to de-escalate without using deadly force?
you brought up the UK police, I said it was not comparable.
Lets leave it hare, you are not seeing the tie in to the gun no gun. "I think I’ve been pretty clear, and it’s written so it can be read again if not clear. | |||
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"I understand that it was this poor guy's right to carry a weapon, but what was his need to? Various news sources have reported his weapon as being a Sig Sauer P320 9mm high-velocity pistol, according to google, the magazine of which carries 15 rounds, plus one in the chamber. It's also reported he had carrying a second magazine as well, presumably with another 15 rounds in it. I was a paramedic for over 25 years, and in that time I did a few Red Cross missions to some real shit-hole areas, usually alongside local military forces, and was offered a side-arm for my protection on many occasions, but I always refused. My ethos is to preserve life, not take it. Why did a civilian ICU nurse, a person committed to the protection and preservation of life, feel the need to go out in his local area armed with the ability to end over 30 lives? Because he was a person consistently exhibiting antisocial, impulsive, manipulative, and aggressive behaviour of which was obvious with his previous accounter where he was on camera giving abuse to ice agent's and openly damaging their transportation. But unhappy with just wrecking their car, he returns a few days later to cause further havoc. ICE agent's clearly did not know how many firearms he had hidden on his body, so they apprehended with caution and protection to themselves. " On the day he was killed, he was shouting at the agents and filming with his phone. The agents had no idea if this was his usual behaviour or just a bad day (also, you are talking about merely two episodes of him being in the middle of a heated protest. Otherwise he’s been described as a caring, kind and professional ICU nurse. I guess someone needs a different narrative), and they had options to de-escalate. They didn’t and they shot a man after removing his weapon and pinning him to the ground. If you can’t see the issue in this, fine. The judge will, hopefully. | |||
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"I understand that it was this poor guy's right to carry a weapon, but what was his need to? Various news sources have reported his weapon as being a Sig Sauer P320 9mm high-velocity pistol, according to google, the magazine of which carries 15 rounds, plus one in the chamber. It's also reported he had carrying a second magazine as well, presumably with another 15 rounds in it. I was a paramedic for over 25 years, and in that time I did a few Red Cross missions to some real shit-hole areas, usually alongside local military forces, and was offered a side-arm for my protection on many occasions, but I always refused. My ethos is to preserve life, not take it. Why did a civilian ICU nurse, a person committed to the protection and preservation of life, feel the need to go out in his local area armed with the ability to end over 30 lives? Because he was a person consistently exhibiting antisocial, impulsive, manipulative, and aggressive behaviour of which was obvious with his previous accounter where he was on camera giving abuse to ice agent's and openly damaging their transportation. But unhappy with just wrecking their car, he returns a few days later to cause further havoc. ICE agent's clearly did not know how many firearms he had hidden on his body, so they apprehended with caution and protection to themselves. Bizarre how people think the right to own a gun means it is compulsory to carry it in public ! Also had Pretti been arrested at his first confrontation with police he almost certainly would have had his permit suspended. " It’s not compulsory, but in the USA it is a constitutional right. Also, the fact he wasn’t arrested before doesn’t change the hapless behaviour of the ICE agents. These guys are clearly out of their depth and think they are untouchable rambos. They honestly look like they are a bunch of hot headed guys with barely any training. Maybe it’s the case. | |||
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"I understand that it was this poor guy's right to carry a weapon, but what was his need to? Various news sources have reported his weapon as being a Sig Sauer P320 9mm high-velocity pistol, according to google, the magazine of which carries 15 rounds, plus one in the chamber. It's also reported he had carrying a second magazine as well, presumably with another 15 rounds in it. I was a paramedic for over 25 years, and in that time I did a few Red Cross missions to some real shit-hole areas, usually alongside local military forces, and was offered a side-arm for my protection on many occasions, but I always refused. My ethos is to preserve life, not take it. Why did a civilian ICU nurse, a person committed to the protection and preservation of life, feel the need to go out in his local area armed with the ability to end over 30 lives? Because he was a person consistently exhibiting antisocial, impulsive, manipulative, and aggressive behaviour of which was obvious with his previous accounter where he was on camera giving abuse to ice agent's and openly damaging their transportation. But unhappy with just wrecking their car, he returns a few days later to cause further havoc. ICE agent's clearly did not know how many firearms he had hidden on his body, so they apprehended with caution and protection to themselves. On the day he was killed, he was shouting at the agents and filming with his phone. The agents had no idea if this was his usual behaviour or just a bad day (also, you are talking about merely two episodes of him being in the middle of a heated protest. Otherwise he’s been described as a caring, kind and professional ICU nurse. I guess someone needs a different narrative), and they had options to de-escalate. They didn’t and they shot a man after removing his weapon and pinning him to the ground. If you can’t see the issue in this, fine. The judge will, hopefully." They removed ONE concealed weapon, they had no idea how many more were hidden. He was obviously violently struggling due to the number of men it took to hold him down. I think you were truly hoping that he would have released another firearm and took out these ice agents. Thankfully for everyone involved the ICE agents got him before he got them. All ended well on the day. | |||
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"I understand that it was this poor guy's right to carry a weapon, but what was his need to? Various news sources have reported his weapon as being a Sig Sauer P320 9mm high-velocity pistol, according to google, the magazine of which carries 15 rounds, plus one in the chamber. It's also reported he had carrying a second magazine as well, presumably with another 15 rounds in it. I was a paramedic for over 25 years, and in that time I did a few Red Cross missions to some real shit-hole areas, usually alongside local military forces, and was offered a side-arm for my protection on many occasions, but I always refused. My ethos is to preserve life, not take it. Why did a civilian ICU nurse, a person committed to the protection and preservation of life, feel the need to go out in his local area armed with the ability to end over 30 lives? Because he was a person consistently exhibiting antisocial, impulsive, manipulative, and aggressive behaviour of which was obvious with his previous accounter where he was on camera giving abuse to ice agent's and openly damaging their transportation. But unhappy with just wrecking their car, he returns a few days later to cause further havoc. ICE agent's clearly did not know how many firearms he had hidden on his body, so they apprehended with caution and protection to themselves. On the day he was killed, he was shouting at the agents and filming with his phone. The agents had no idea if this was his usual behaviour or just a bad day (also, you are talking about merely two episodes of him being in the middle of a heated protest. Otherwise he’s been described as a caring, kind and professional ICU nurse. I guess someone needs a different narrative), and they had options to de-escalate. They didn’t and they shot a man after removing his weapon and pinning him to the ground. If you can’t see the issue in this, fine. The judge will, hopefully. They removed ONE concealed weapon, they had no idea how many more were hidden. He was obviously violently struggling due to the number of men it took to hold him down. I think you were truly hoping that he would have released another firearm and took out these ice agents. Thankfully for everyone involved the ICE agents got him before he got them. All ended well on the day. "You think I wanted to see some agents killed, but you’re happy to see that guy killed because “All ended well on the day”??? Strange thing to say. First, I didn’t want anyone dead. Not the civilians not the agents. Unless you can find a comment where I wished death to someone, I’ll call your words BS. Seems like you are evading the argument and trying to sway, because you can’t write anything meaningful. Doesn’t look good on you. Second, after removing the gun the suspect was on the ground unable to move. It’s incredibly unlikely that he would have a second weapon and if he did, he was incapacitated. Arresting may have been more than enough (what for? Because he was filming? He has a right to protest), instead they killed him while unarmed and incapacity. You can call it cowardly, exaggerated, or simply admit that the agents are out of their depth and unable to police those situations. Any other fabrication? Maybe the suspect had a bomb, or was a terminator? Was he a communist in high school? Or can we just admit that ICE caused tensions in a community and have proved to be unable to police the mess they created? Do you want to convince me that the woman was trying to ram the agents with her car when you can see they shot immediately after she moved the car in a direction opposite to them? Seriously, stop giving interpretations and using your fantasy. There are videos , for gods sake. | |||
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"I understand that it was this poor guy's right to carry a weapon, but what was his need to? Various news sources have reported his weapon as being a Sig Sauer P320 9mm high-velocity pistol, according to google, the magazine of which carries 15 rounds, plus one in the chamber. It's also reported he had carrying a second magazine as well, presumably with another 15 rounds in it. I was a paramedic for over 25 years, and in that time I did a few Red Cross missions to some real shit-hole areas, usually alongside local military forces, and was offered a side-arm for my protection on many occasions, but I always refused. My ethos is to preserve life, not take it. Why did a civilian ICU nurse, a person committed to the protection and preservation of life, feel the need to go out in his local area armed with the ability to end over 30 lives? Because he was a person consistently exhibiting antisocial, impulsive, manipulative, and aggressive behaviour of which was obvious with his previous accounter where he was on camera giving abuse to ice agent's and openly damaging their transportation. But unhappy with just wrecking their car, he returns a few days later to cause further havoc. ICE agent's clearly did not know how many firearms he had hidden on his body, so they apprehended with caution and protection to themselves. On the day he was killed, he was shouting at the agents and filming with his phone. The agents had no idea if this was his usual behaviour or just a bad day (also, you are talking about merely two episodes of him being in the middle of a heated protest. Otherwise he’s been described as a caring, kind and professional ICU nurse. I guess someone needs a different narrative), and they had options to de-escalate. They didn’t and they shot a man after removing his weapon and pinning him to the ground. If you can’t see the issue in this, fine. The judge will, hopefully. They removed ONE concealed weapon, they had no idea how many more were hidden. He was obviously violently struggling due to the number of men it took to hold him down. I think you were truly hoping that he would have released another firearm and took out these ice agents. Thankfully for everyone involved the ICE agents got him before he got them. All ended well on the day.
You think I wanted to see some agents killed, but you’re happy to see that guy killed because “All ended well on the day”??? Strange thing to say.
First, I didn’t want anyone dead. Not the civilians not the agents. Unless you can find a comment where I wished death to someone, I’ll call your words BS. Seems like you are evading the argument and trying to sway, because you can’t write anything meaningful. Doesn’t look good on you.
Second, after removing the gun the suspect was on the ground unable to move. It’s incredibly unlikely that he would have a second weapon and if he did, he was incapacitated. Arresting may have been more than enough (what for? Because he was filming? He has a right to protest), instead they killed him while unarmed and incapacity. You can call it cowardly, exaggerated, or simply admit that the agents are out of their depth and unable to police those situations.
Any other fabrication? Maybe the suspect had a bomb, or was a terminator? Was he a communist in high school? Or can we just admit that ICE caused tensions in a community and have proved to be unable to police the mess they created? Do you want to convince me that the woman was trying to ram the agents with her car when you can see they shot immediately after she moved the car in a direction opposite to them?
Seriously, stop giving interpretations and using your fantasy. There are videos , for gods sake.
"Calm down and don't get your knickers in a twist Both broke the law, both refused to obay instructions and both were dealt with. It's really as simple as that. Having law breakers removed from society makes a far better and safer World for us all to live in. Did these actions disturb anyone's sleep last night? No, I didn't think so, | |||
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"I understand that it was this poor guy's right to carry a weapon, but what was his need to? Various news sources have reported his weapon as being a Sig Sauer P320 9mm high-velocity pistol, according to google, the magazine of which carries 15 rounds, plus one in the chamber. It's also reported he had carrying a second magazine as well, presumably with another 15 rounds in it. I was a paramedic for over 25 years, and in that time I did a few Red Cross missions to some real shit-hole areas, usually alongside local military forces, and was offered a side-arm for my protection on many occasions, but I always refused. My ethos is to preserve life, not take it. Why did a civilian ICU nurse, a person committed to the protection and preservation of life, feel the need to go out in his local area armed with the ability to end over 30 lives? Because he was a person consistently exhibiting antisocial, impulsive, manipulative, and aggressive behaviour of which was obvious with his previous accounter where he was on camera giving abuse to ice agent's and openly damaging their transportation. But unhappy with just wrecking their car, he returns a few days later to cause further havoc. ICE agent's clearly did not know how many firearms he had hidden on his body, so they apprehended with caution and protection to themselves. On the day he was killed, he was shouting at the agents and filming with his phone. The agents had no idea if this was his usual behaviour or just a bad day (also, you are talking about merely two episodes of him being in the middle of a heated protest. Otherwise he’s been described as a caring, kind and professional ICU nurse. I guess someone needs a different narrative), and they had options to de-escalate. They didn’t and they shot a man after removing his weapon and pinning him to the ground. If you can’t see the issue in this, fine. The judge will, hopefully. They removed ONE concealed weapon, they had no idea how many more were hidden. He was obviously violently struggling due to the number of men it took to hold him down. I think you were truly hoping that he would have released another firearm and took out these ice agents. Thankfully for everyone involved the ICE agents got him before he got them. All ended well on the day.
You think I wanted to see some agents killed, but you’re happy to see that guy killed because “All ended well on the day”??? Strange thing to say.
First, I didn’t want anyone dead. Not the civilians not the agents. Unless you can find a comment where I wished death to someone, I’ll call your words BS. Seems like you are evading the argument and trying to sway, because you can’t write anything meaningful. Doesn’t look good on you.
Second, after removing the gun the suspect was on the ground unable to move. It’s incredibly unlikely that he would have a second weapon and if he did, he was incapacitated. Arresting may have been more than enough (what for? Because he was filming? He has a right to protest), instead they killed him while unarmed and incapacity. You can call it cowardly, exaggerated, or simply admit that the agents are out of their depth and unable to police those situations.
Any other fabrication? Maybe the suspect had a bomb, or was a terminator? Was he a communist in high school? Or can we just admit that ICE caused tensions in a community and have proved to be unable to police the mess they created? Do you want to convince me that the woman was trying to ram the agents with her car when you can see they shot immediately after she moved the car in a direction opposite to them?
Seriously, stop giving interpretations and using your fantasy. There are videos , for gods sake.
Calm down and don't get your knickers in a twist
Both broke the law, both refused to obay instructions and both were dealt with.
It's really as simple as that.
Having law breakers removed from society makes a far better and safer World for us all to live in.
Did these actions disturb anyone's sleep last night?
No, I didn't think so, "I’m relaxed. You seem to be agitated, given what you’re writing. Both disobeyed the law, you say? Mmm, so at the next protest for of Palestine or Ukraine or climate change shall I expect some casualties because people didn’t do exactly as told by police? Your understanding of law and order seems lacking. I mean, you’re suggesting people not abiding shall be killed. I guess you’d find yourself at home in russia or iran or north korea I note again that you didn’t address my points. Beating around the bush again | |||
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"A man carrying a weapon as per his rights in the US was filming an ICE operation with his phone. A few seconds later, the agents remove his weapon (which he never reached for), pin him on the ground and shoot him 10 times." No no, this isn't an answer to what I asked. You quoted a post of mine and said it was an example of being a "delusional interpretation" of the video footage. Go back to that quoted post, pick any example from it that you like (or as many as you like, we can go through them all one-by-one) and explain clearly how it is such. "...agents who shoot before asking questions, and as a result two protesters, two American citizens died." Except that this is an inaccurate and disingenuous re-framing of what actually unfolded in both cases. 1) Both Good and Pretti shouldn't have been breaking the law to begin with, if they had been protesting lawfully and peacefully then neither situation would have escalated to their unfortunate deaths in the first place. 2) Even after breaking the law by agitating instead of protesting, they were given multiple chances/instructions to comply which they both failed to do so repeatedly, escalating the situation to the point they were tragically killed. Their deaths were completely preventable and avoidable through their own actions. "A message for everyone: when engaging in a discussion, it would be nice to keep focused. Beating around the bush is a classic keyboard warrior tactic, usually employed when one cannot provide any meaningful contribution or response." Good advice. I wish the people in this thread who I keep asking direct questions but never getting any direct answers would follow it... y'know, such as yourself. "why hide their faces." Probably for the same/similar reasons that DEA/FAST units hide theirs when performing anti-cartel operations. "Also had Pretti been arrested at his first confrontation with police he almost certainly would have had his permit suspended." This is a good point. His criminal behaviour on the 13th means that he was no longer lawfully permitted to carry his pistol on the day he was killed, but more to the point is if ICE had actually arrested him like they should have instead of just letting him go, he'd most likely still be alive today. "Second, after removing the gun the suspect was on the ground unable to move. It’s incredibly unlikely that he would have a second weapon and if he did, he was incapacitated." Not quite. He was still on his knees when the first ICE officer opened fire, the ones holding/restraining him all jumped back/away from him. The first shouts of "he's got a gun!" were that same officer seeing Pretti's pistol and drawing his own. Right after the gun is removed there are further shouts of "gun! gun! gun!" (unknown source) which is when the agents jump back and the firing starts. Only afterwards one of the other agents askes in a confused tone "where's the gun?" and the officer in grey comes back over to explain "I got the gun". So, a few things could have happened. Either there was confusion as to whether Pretti was still armed or disarmed, and/or there was confusion as to whether Pretti had more than one firearm on him. "Arresting may have been more than enough (what for? Because he was filming? He has a right to protest)," No, not because of the filming. We have audio of ICE repeatedly telling protesters they are allowed/entitled to film all they want. You know this full well. Violent and aggressive agitation are not the same as peacful protest, just as Good and Pretti's actions/behaviour were not "just filming". You know this full well. "Or can we just admit that ICE caused tensions in a community and have proved to be unable to police the mess they created?" Or we can look to where the blame actually lies (beyond the individuals themselves) - Walz and Frey. ICE have been carrying out arrests and deportations all across the USA and throughout multiple Presidential terms, they are not the common factor in the chaos that's erupted in Minnesota. The lack of cooperation from State and local officals/law enforcement with the federal level, and the gaslighting and enabling rhetoric from supposed leaders, is what's different here. If were truly down to ICE and their policing, then surely we'd be seeing similar issues across the board, going back to Bush's term? (Maybe there has been, just with less/no media coverage?) "Do you want to convince me that the woman was trying to ram the agents with her car when you can see they shot immediately after she moved the car in a direction opposite to them?" Her accelerating forwards when there's an officer in front of and to the side of her vehicle isn't 'opposite' though, is it? That would have been backwards. Obviously. As you well know. The footage and the audio speaks very clearly for itself - she hit him. | |||
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"Footage today of activists using the N word to a black ICE agent. These are the good guys though.🤦♂️" Other ironies include: - Anti-ICE protesters being less diverse than the ICE officers they're screeching at... - Anti-ICE protesters screeching things like "ICE go home" and "get out" and "you're not supposed to be here/come in here" - Anti-ICE protesters doing random stops of civillians and demanding to see their papers/ID to prove that they're not ICE officers... - Anti-ICE protesters harassing and stalking civillians/vehicles just trying to go about their day because they "look like" or "might be" ICE officers... | |||
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"I've watched every video of the shooting I could find and it sounds to me like there's a muffled gunshot when the ICE agents are mobbing Pretti, then they step back and open fire. I wondered if an accidental discharge from either his gun when it was grabbed from him, or from one of the agent's guns occurred leading the others to mistakenly believe that they had been fired on. I did a bit of research into the weapon he was carrying and was quite shocked. It was a SigSauer P320-AXG COMBAT pistol. It's standard magazine carries 21 rounds. 21! It's also reported by various news sources that he also had a second magazine, meaning he went out that day, in his local area, with the ability to end 42 lives. As a fellow medic, I find that abhorrent. The other thing that really shocked me and led me to the accidental discharge theory, is that this weapon is not equipped with a safety catch "Why aren't these ICE agent wearing body ams like all the other law enforcement agencies are required to do. Why are we having to rely on videos shot by the public to know whats happening. Videos that ICE try to prevent being shot.. | |||
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"I've watched every video of the shooting I could find and it sounds to me like there's a muffled gunshot when the ICE agents are mobbing Pretti, then they step back and open fire. I wondered if an accidental discharge from either his gun when it was grabbed from him, or from one of the agent's guns occurred leading the others to mistakenly believe that they had been fired on. I did a bit of research into the weapon he was carrying and was quite shocked. It was a SigSauer P320-AXG COMBAT pistol. It's standard magazine carries 21 rounds. 21! It's also reported by various news sources that he also had a second magazine, meaning he went out that day, in his local area, with the ability to end 42 lives. As a fellow medic, I find that abhorrent. The other thing that really shocked me and led me to the accidental discharge theory, is that this weapon is not equipped with a safety catch
Why aren't these ICE agent wearing body ams like all the other law enforcement agencies are required to do. Why are we having to rely on videos shot by the public to know whats happening. Videos that ICE try to prevent being shot.."Actually, Google tells me that only a dozen states mandate that police officers who interact with the public have to wear body cameras. | |||
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"I've watched every video of the shooting I could find and it sounds to me like there's a muffled gunshot when the ICE agents are mobbing Pretti, then they step back and open fire. I wondered if an accidental discharge from either his gun when it was grabbed from him, or from one of the agent's guns occurred leading the others to mistakenly believe that they had been fired on. I did a bit of research into the weapon he was carrying and was quite shocked. It was a SigSauer P320-AXG COMBAT pistol. It's standard magazine carries 21 rounds. 21! It's also reported by various news sources that he also had a second magazine, meaning he went out that day, in his local area, with the ability to end 42 lives. As a fellow medic, I find that abhorrent. The other thing that really shocked me and led me to the accidental discharge theory, is that this weapon is not equipped with a safety catch
Why aren't these ICE agent wearing body ams like all the other law enforcement agencies are required to do. Why are we having to rely on videos shot by the public to know whats happening. Videos that ICE try to prevent being shot..
Actually, Google tells me that only a dozen states mandate that police officers who interact with the public have to wear body cameras. "You are right, my bad. Just been seeing a lot of YouTube videos about police from the States and in nearly everyone, the police have bodycams. Google also says 4 in 5 states or 80 percent have adopted them. Can't see any reason for ICE not wearing them. They have a annual budget of 85 billion dollars, more than all other Federal law enforcement agencies combined. | |||
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"Videos that ICE try to prevent being shot.." This is demonstrably false. We can hear officers saying repeatedly in other videos that protesters are free and welcome to record on their phones. In the Good and Pretti videos, there’s no evidence of ICE officers trying to block or prevent bystanders from filming. | |||
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"You are right, my bad. Just been seeing a lot of YouTube videos about police from the States and in nearly everyone, the police have bodycams. Google also says 4 in 5 states or 80 percent have adopted them. Can't see any reason for ICE not wearing them. They have a annual budget of 85 billion dollars, more than all other Federal law enforcement agencies combined." I agree they should have bodycams. | |||
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"You are right, my bad. Just been seeing a lot of YouTube videos about police from the States and in nearly everyone, the police have bodycams. Google also says 4 in 5 states or 80 percent have adopted them. Can't see any reason for ICE not wearing them. They have a annual budget of 85 billion dollars, more than all other Federal law enforcement agencies combined. I agree they should have bodycams." I think they have been mandated but not fully rolled out yet. | |||
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"I've watched every video of the shooting I could find and it sounds to me like there's a muffled gunshot when the ICE agents are mobbing Pretti, then they step back and open fire. I wondered if an accidental discharge from either his gun when it was grabbed from him, or from one of the agent's guns occurred leading the others to mistakenly believe that they had been fired on. I did a bit of research into the weapon he was carrying and was quite shocked. It was a SigSauer P320-AXG COMBAT pistol. It's standard magazine carries 21 rounds. 21! It's also reported by various news sources that he also had a second magazine, meaning he went out that day, in his local area, with the ability to end 42 lives. As a fellow medic, I find that abhorrent. The other thing that really shocked me and led me to the accidental discharge theory, is that this weapon is not equipped with a safety catch "15 - 21 rounds is basic for the majority of handguns especially 9mm when they are double loaded. A .45acp is different as obviously a larger round but for 9mm 15 - 21 rounds is not unusual. What is "unusual" and WRONG.... is having a round already chambered ready to fire. Most handguns in America have trigger jobs where less pressure is required to fire, but the question should be "why was a round already chambered" ready to fire?? Even at gun ranges both here and in America, the Firearm should be shown "Safe" whilst being carried to the firing point. And in public he should not be walking around with a chambered round which is ready to be fired. | |||
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"I've watched every video of the shooting I could find and it sounds to me like there's a muffled gunshot when the ICE agents are mobbing Pretti, then they step back and open fire. I wondered if an accidental discharge from either his gun when it was grabbed from him, or from one of the agent's guns occurred leading the others to mistakenly believe that they had been fired on. I did a bit of research into the weapon he was carrying and was quite shocked. It was a SigSauer P320-AXG COMBAT pistol. It's standard magazine carries 21 rounds. 21! It's also reported by various news sources that he also had a second magazine, meaning he went out that day, in his local area, with the ability to end 42 lives. As a fellow medic, I find that abhorrent. The other thing that really shocked me and led me to the accidental discharge theory, is that this weapon is not equipped with a safety catch "Ooh… 2 things here…. 1) I have heard the accidental firing theory … it’s not in the DHS initial report on what happened 2) one of the “gun control” measures always being brought up is limiting the amount of ammunition and magazine rounds a person should be allowed to have…. Sounds reasonable Always blocked by republicans…… So again…. The guy legally did nothing wrong | |||
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"I've watched every video of the shooting I could find and it sounds to me like there's a muffled gunshot when the ICE agents are mobbing Pretti, then they step back and open fire. I wondered if an accidental discharge from either his gun when it was grabbed from him, or from one of the agent's guns occurred leading the others to mistakenly believe that they had been fired on. I did a bit of research into the weapon he was carrying and was quite shocked. It was a SigSauer P320-AXG COMBAT pistol. It's standard magazine carries 21 rounds. 21! It's also reported by various news sources that he also had a second magazine, meaning he went out that day, in his local area, with the ability to end 42 lives. As a fellow medic, I find that abhorrent. The other thing that really shocked me and led me to the accidental discharge theory, is that this weapon is not equipped with a safety catch
Ooh… 2 things here….
1) I have heard the accidental firing theory … it’s not in the DHS initial report on what happened
2) one of the “gun control” measures always being brought up is limiting the amount of ammunition and magazine rounds a person should be allowed to have…. Sounds reasonable
Always blocked by republicans……
So again…. The guy legally did nothing wrong "Didn't the Las Vegas shooter fire more than a 1000 rounds and still had plenty left when he topped himself? I mean at what point does someone ask them why do you need so many bullets? | |||
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" why hide their faces. Probably for the same/similar reasons that DEA/FAST units hide theirs when performing anti-cartel operations. " I wanted to bring up this particular answer/excuse that merces gave So.. are they preforming a domestic action or a federal one? If they are asking local authorities to back them up… then why should they be allowed to masked when the local police are not… Local police also have to have identification factors… badge numbers for example, but these guys don’t If you are going to have the argument they are carrying out a federal action… then I have some really bad news for you… The threshold for using a firearm as a federal agent is actually higher than it is for a local police officer You can only use a firearm if you believe your life is in immediate danger… if a person is on their knees with their hands up with their back to you, that is not immediate! For example , even if you want to use the “ maybe he had a 2nd gun” excuse in rays world… if he is not brandishing it’s not immediate So if the first agent is not immediate… the second agent who shot him a further 5 times in the back when he was sprawled on the floor… even more “not immediate” | |||
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"I've watched every video of the shooting I could find and it sounds to me like there's a muffled gunshot when the ICE agents are mobbing Pretti, then they step back and open fire. I wondered if an accidental discharge from either his gun when it was grabbed from him, or from one of the agent's guns occurred leading the others to mistakenly believe that they had been fired on. I did a bit of research into the weapon he was carrying and was quite shocked. It was a SigSauer P320-AXG COMBAT pistol. It's standard magazine carries 21 rounds. 21! It's also reported by various news sources that he also had a second magazine, meaning he went out that day, in his local area, with the ability to end 42 lives. As a fellow medic, I find that abhorrent. The other thing that really shocked me and led me to the accidental discharge theory, is that this weapon is not equipped with a safety catch
Ooh… 2 things here….
1) I have heard the accidental firing theory … it’s not in the DHS initial report on what happened
2) one of the “gun control” measures always being brought up is limiting the amount of ammunition and magazine rounds a person should be allowed to have…. Sounds reasonable
Always blocked by republicans……
So again…. The guy legally did nothing wrong
Didn't the Las Vegas shooter fire more than a 1000 rounds and still had plenty left when he topped himself?
I mean at what point does someone ask them why do you need so many bullets? "He had a bump stock, which in effect turned his gun into an automatic weapon… and a silencer! So basically no one had any idea which direction the bullets we’re coming from If you want an idea of how inept gun control laws are… bump stocks were banned in 2018, that got overturned by SCOTUS in 2024 | |||
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"Videos that ICE try to prevent being shot.. This is demonstrably false. We can hear officers saying repeatedly in other videos that protesters are free and welcome to record on their phones. In the Good and Pretti videos, there’s no evidence of ICE officers trying to block or prevent bystanders from filming. "Might not see in the videos, Google the subject and this comes up. While filming ICE (Immigration and Customs Enforcement) agents in public is a protected First Amendment right, recent reports from early 2026 indicate a surge in incidents where observers and journalists have been threatened, detained, or arrested for doing so. | |||
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Honestly, I’m getting bored of repeating again and again that a de facto unarmed man has been shot, as well as a lady with a SUV pointing 90 degrees away from the agents that she allegedly wanted to run over. It’s not my opinion, it’s in the videos.
What happened was the result of:
-incredibly bad policing by ICE, I would say amateurish in their inability to de-escalate
-months of tensions built in a community, for which the central government is massively responsible (partially the governor and the mayor, but they reacted to a paramilitary group being sent to their yard that behave like everything is allowed to them).
Bovino has been sent home, Kirsty Noem is going to be silent for a while. The trump administration is in damage control mode and has scaled back, finally realising that they can’t control the protest by doubling down on ICE presence, let alone controlling the narrative.
We are left with two American citizens that died while protesting. Some people keep putting the blame on them, at this stage it’s better to wait for a judge to examine the facts. Still, the fault is clearly on the agents: there was no “domestic terrorist” there.
I have no time to discuss here with people who say that this people deserved to be killed, or people who think shooting protesters is ok. These people disgust me, I would not bother with them in real life, let alone here. | |||
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"And cue the one and only strawman counter I'll get to any of this... "sO tHaT mEAnS tHeY DeSErVeD tO gEt sHoT & kILleD!?!?" "Didn't take long ! 🤣 | |||
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"I've watched every video of the shooting I could find and it sounds to me like there's a muffled gunshot when the ICE agents are mobbing Pretti, then they step back and open fire. I wondered if an accidental discharge from either his gun when it was grabbed from him, or from one of the agent's guns occurred leading the others to mistakenly believe that they had been fired on. I did a bit of research into the weapon he was carrying and was quite shocked. It was a SigSauer P320-AXG COMBAT pistol. It's standard magazine carries 21 rounds. 21! It's also reported by various news sources that he also had a second magazine, meaning he went out that day, in his local area, with the ability to end 42 lives. As a fellow medic, I find that abhorrent. The other thing that really shocked me and led me to the accidental discharge theory, is that this weapon is not equipped with a safety catch
Ooh… 2 things here….
1) I have heard the accidental firing theory … it’s not in the DHS initial report on what happened
2) one of the “gun control” measures always being brought up is limiting the amount of ammunition and magazine rounds a person should be allowed to have…. Sounds reasonable
Always blocked by republicans……
So again…. The guy legally did nothing wrong
Didn't the Las Vegas shooter fire more than a 1000 rounds and still had plenty left when he topped himself?
I mean at what point does someone ask them why do you need so many bullets? "He had more than one Firearm and was walking them to his joint room for a day or two. The following night the Mandalay bay was business as usual. We arrived and stayed in the MGM on the night of the slaughter. Thankfully jet lag kept us in. | |||
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"1) I have heard the accidental firing theory … it’s not in the DHS initial report on what happened" It hardly matters what the DHS initial report is when we have video/audio footage that goes against this. Unless that first shot into Pretti's back was indeed accidental, at which point the officer would seem to have gone "well... I guess I'm committed now"...? "So again…. The guy legally did nothing wrong" So again... you're either just blatantly lying, or are deeply ignorant of US laws. "If they are asking local authorities to back them up… then why should they be allowed to masked when the local police are not… Local police also have to have identification factors… badge numbers for example, but these guys don’t" I'm perfectly happy for local police to also wear face masks if they wish. I'm also perfectly happy for ICE officers to have badge numbers visible. I don't see how this addresses or counters my "excuse"? "If you are going to have the argument they are carrying out a federal action… then I have some really bad news for you… The threshold for using a firearm as a federal agent is actually higher than it is for a local police officer You can only use a firearm if you believe your life is in immediate danger… if a person is on their knees with their hands up with their back to you, that is not immediate! For example , even if you want to use the “ maybe he had a 2nd gun” excuse in rays world… if he is not brandishing it’s not immediate So if the first agent is not immediate… the second agent who shot him a further 5 times in the back when he was sprawled on the floor… even more “not immediate”" Okay? None of this addresses or counters my "excuse", though, or relates directely to anything I've said. So...? "Might not see in the videos, Google the subject and this comes up." I'm not saying that ICE officers aren't ever challenging or obstructing or stopping bystanders from filming them, but when discussing specifically the incidents shown in the Good/Pretti footage, I'm going to go with what's actually shown/heard within those sources, over what Google says. For (I hope) obvious reasons. So, again, in the multiple videos I've watched of ICE outside the Good/Pretti footage, I've heard officers tell bystanders they are free and welcome to record them, nor have I seen any ICE officers stopping bystanders from filming, including the Good/Pretti footage. "Honestly, I’m getting bored of repeating again and again that a de facto unarmed man has been shot," So maybe try and address specific points and answer direct questions with direct answers, instead of beating around the bush with generic and vague obfuscation/evasion tactics, and you'd find the discussion less boring and more engaging? "as well as a lady with a SUV pointing 90 degrees away from the agents that she allegedly wanted to run over." So... are you just blatantly lying here? Or are you really that bad at maths/visual comprehension? We have clear video/audio footage of ICE agents both in front of and at the left-hand side of Good's SUV when she accelerates FORWARDS. Pointing 90 degrees away would have to mean ICE agents only on either SIDE of her SUV. One agent was, ordering her out of the vehicle and attempting to open the door. Her partner was on the other side, also 90 degrees, also attempting to open the door, before shouting "drive, baby, drive!". The officer she hit, the one stood directly in FRONT of her vehicle was, amazingly, not 90 degrees but in fact the EXACT direction her SUV was pointing. It's crazy if you actually understand maths and physics, huh? "-months of tensions built in a community, for which the central government is massively responsible (partially the governor and the mayor," I mean, this is clearly backwards. What happens at a State level is much more the responsibily of State-level government, and then downstream from that is the more centralised, federal government. This is just basic, common, rational, reasonable sense. "We are left with two American citizens that died while protesting. Some people keep putting the blame on them," Except that they clearly weren't "just protesting". If they had merely been lawfully and peacefully protesting, as is their protected right, then neither situation would have escalated to their deaths. Of course they are to blame. Every individual is responsible, first and foremost, before anyone and everybody else - police, government, anybody - for their own personal safety. Any normal, rational, reasonable person knows this to be true. "I have no time to discuss here with people who say that this people deserved to be killed, or people who think shooting protesters is ok." I agree. I think that is perfectly reasonable. So what about any of MY posts, instead? Seriously. Pick any one point, pick them all if you like, I'm happy to go through them one-by-one. Unless you just want to continue to beat around the bush/obfuscate/evade/dodge... and otherwise be intellectually dishonest/bad faith? I think I already know which path you're going to take. | |||
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"And cue the one and only strawman counter I'll get to any of this... "sO tHaT mEAnS tHeY DeSErVeD tO gEt sHoT & kILleD!?!?"
Didn't take long ! 🤣"Right? | |||
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"1) I have heard the accidental firing theory … it’s not in the DHS initial report on what happened It hardly matters what the DHS initial report is when we have video/audio footage that goes against this. Unless that first shot into Pretti's back was indeed accidental, at which point the officer would seem to have gone "well... I guess I'm committed now"...? So again…. The guy legally did nothing wrong So again... you're either just blatantly lying, or are deeply ignorant of US laws. If they are asking local authorities to back them up… then why should they be allowed to masked when the local police are not… Local police also have to have identification factors… badge numbers for example, but these guys don’t I'm perfectly happy for local police to also wear face masks if they wish. I'm also perfectly happy for ICE officers to have badge numbers visible. I don't see how this addresses or counters my "excuse"? If you are going to have the argument they are carrying out a federal action… then I have some really bad news for you… The threshold for using a firearm as a federal agent is actually higher than it is for a local police officer You can only use a firearm if you believe your life is in immediate danger… if a person is on their knees with their hands up with their back to you, that is not immediate! For example , even if you want to use the “ maybe he had a 2nd gun” excuse in rays world… if he is not brandishing it’s not immediate So if the first agent is not immediate… the second agent who shot him a further 5 times in the back when he was sprawled on the floor… even more “not immediate” Okay? None of this addresses or counters my "excuse", though, or relates directely to anything I've said. So...? Might not see in the videos, Google the subject and this comes up. I'm not saying that ICE officers aren't ever challenging or obstructing or stopping bystanders from filming them, but when discussing specifically the incidents shown in the Good/Pretti footage, I'm going to go with what's actually shown/heard within those sources, over what Google says. For (I hope) obvious reasons. So, again, in the multiple videos I've watched of ICE outside the Good/Pretti footage, I've heard officers tell bystanders they are free and welcome to record them, nor have I seen any ICE officers stopping bystanders from filming, including the Good/Pretti footage. Honestly, I’m getting bored of repeating again and again that a de facto unarmed man has been shot, So maybe try and address specific points and answer direct questions with direct answers, instead of beating around the bush with generic and vague obfuscation/evasion tactics, and you'd find the discussion less boring and more engaging? as well as a lady with a SUV pointing 90 degrees away from the agents that she allegedly wanted to run over. So... are you just blatantly lying here? Or are you really that bad at maths/visual comprehension? We have clear video/audio footage of ICE agents both in front of and at the left-hand side of Good's SUV when she accelerates FORWARDS. Pointing 90 degrees away would have to mean ICE agents only on either SIDE of her SUV. One agent was, ordering her out of the vehicle and attempting to open the door. Her partner was on the other side, also 90 degrees, also attempting to open the door, before shouting "drive, baby, drive!". The officer she hit, the one stood directly in FRONT of her vehicle was, amazingly, not 90 degrees but in fact the EXACT direction her SUV was pointing. It's crazy if you actually understand maths and physics, huh? -months of tensions built in a community, for which the central government is massively responsible (partially the governor and the mayor, I mean, this is clearly backwards. What happens at a State level is much more the responsibily of State-level government, and then downstream from that is the more centralised, federal government. This is just basic, common, rational, reasonable sense. We are left with two American citizens that died while protesting. Some people keep putting the blame on them, Except that they clearly weren't "just protesting". If they had merely been lawfully and peacefully protesting, as is their protected right, then neither situation would have escalated to their deaths. Of course they are to blame. Every individual is responsible, first and foremost, before anyone and everybody else - police, government, anybody - for their own personal safety. Any normal, rational, reasonable person knows this to be true. I have no time to discuss here with people who say that this people deserved to be killed, or people who think shooting protesters is ok. I agree. I think that is perfectly reasonable. So what about any of MY posts, instead? Seriously. Pick any one point, pick them all if you like, I'm happy to go through them one-by-one. Unless you just want to continue to beat around the bush/obfuscate/evade/dodge... and otherwise be intellectually dishonest/bad faith? I think I already know which path you're going to take." You seem very invested in this..? | |||
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"You seem very invested in this..?" O-okay...? Is that seriously your only response? You know that participation in my threads is entirely optional? R-right?? | |||
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"1) I have heard the accidental firing theory … it’s not in the DHS initial report on what happened It hardly matters what the DHS initial report is when we have video/audio footage that goes against this. Unless that first shot into Pretti's back was indeed accidental, at which point the officer would seem to have gone "well... I guess I'm committed now"...? So again…. The guy legally did nothing wrong So again... you're either just blatantly lying, or are deeply ignorant of US laws. If they are asking local authorities to back them up… then why should they be allowed to masked when the local police are not… Local police also have to have identification factors… badge numbers for example, but these guys don’t I'm perfectly happy for local police to also wear face masks if they wish. I'm also perfectly happy for ICE officers to have badge numbers visible. I don't see how this addresses or counters my "excuse"? If you are going to have the argument they are carrying out a federal action… then I have some really bad news for you… The threshold for using a firearm as a federal agent is actually higher than it is for a local police officer You can only use a firearm if you believe your life is in immediate danger… if a person is on their knees with their hands up with their back to you, that is not immediate! For example , even if you want to use the “ maybe he had a 2nd gun” excuse in rays world… if he is not brandishing it’s not immediate So if the first agent is not immediate… the second agent who shot him a further 5 times in the back when he was sprawled on the floor… even more “not immediate” Okay? None of this addresses or counters my "excuse", though, or relates directely to anything I've said. So...? Might not see in the videos, Google the subject and this comes up. I'm not saying that ICE officers aren't ever challenging or obstructing or stopping bystanders from filming them, but when discussing specifically the incidents shown in the Good/Pretti footage, I'm going to go with what's actually shown/heard within those sources, over what Google says. For (I hope) obvious reasons. So, again, in the multiple videos I've watched of ICE outside the Good/Pretti footage, I've heard officers tell bystanders they are free and welcome to record them, nor have I seen any ICE officers stopping bystanders from filming, including the Good/Pretti footage. Honestly, I’m getting bored of repeating again and again that a de facto unarmed man has been shot, So maybe try and address specific points and answer direct questions with direct answers, instead of beating around the bush with generic and vague obfuscation/evasion tactics, and you'd find the discussion less boring and more engaging? as well as a lady with a SUV pointing 90 degrees away from the agents that she allegedly wanted to run over. So... are you just blatantly lying here? Or are you really that bad at maths/visual comprehension? We have clear video/audio footage of ICE agents both in front of and at the left-hand side of Good's SUV when she accelerates FORWARDS. Pointing 90 degrees away would have to mean ICE agents only on either SIDE of her SUV. One agent was, ordering her out of the vehicle and attempting to open the door. Her partner was on the other side, also 90 degrees, also attempting to open the door, before shouting "drive, baby, drive!". The officer she hit, the one stood directly in FRONT of her vehicle was, amazingly, not 90 degrees but in fact the EXACT direction her SUV was pointing. It's crazy if you actually understand maths and physics, huh? -months of tensions built in a community, for which the central government is massively responsible (partially the governor and the mayor, I mean, this is clearly backwards. What happens at a State level is much more the responsibily of State-level government, and then downstream from that is the more centralised, federal government. This is just basic, common, rational, reasonable sense. We are left with two American citizens that died while protesting. Some people keep putting the blame on them, Except that they clearly weren't "just protesting". If they had merely been lawfully and peacefully protesting, as is their protected right, then neither situation would have escalated to their deaths. Of course they are to blame. Every individual is responsible, first and foremost, before anyone and everybody else - police, government, anybody - for their own personal safety. Any normal, rational, reasonable person knows this to be true. I have no time to discuss here with people who say that this people deserved to be killed, or people who think shooting protesters is ok. I agree. I think that is perfectly reasonable. So what about any of MY posts, instead? Seriously. Pick any one point, pick them all if you like, I'm happy to go through them one-by-one. Unless you just want to continue to beat around the bush/obfuscate/evade/dodge... and otherwise be intellectually dishonest/bad faith? I think I already know which path you're going to take. You seem very invested in this..?" The OP started the thread and he's taking the time to reply in detail to most posts. | |||
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"You seem very invested in this..? O-okay...? Is that seriously your only response? You know that participation in my threads is entirely optional? R-right?? "What can one say when you take multiple posts from multiple people and bundle reply into one post. Just seems a lot of effort for a casual debater. | |||
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"What can one say when you take multiple posts from multiple people and bundle reply into one post. Just seems a lot of effort for a casual debater." You can do lots of things. Including the thing that I do (you can quote my post and delete everthing except the part you want to reply to, and then write a reply to it). If it makes you feel better, I can keep your specific responses to me separate? That means more work/effort on my part, but hey, whatever makes things easier for you, I guess... | |||
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"What can one say when you take multiple posts from multiple people and bundle reply into one post. Just seems a lot of effort for a casual debater. You can do lots of things. Including the thing that I do (you can quote my post and delete everthing except the part you want to reply to, and then write a reply to it). If it makes you feel better, I can keep your specific responses to me separate? That means more work/effort on my part, but hey, whatever makes things easier for you, I guess..." Very touchy | |||
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"Very touchy "I know. I can be very kind and considerate. Sometimes.  | |||
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"Might not see in the videos, Google the subject and this comes up." I'm not saying that ICE officers aren't ever challenging or obstructing or stopping bystanders from filming them, but when discussing specifically the incidents shown in the Good/Pretti footage, I'm going to go with what's actually shown/heard within those sources, over what Google says. For (I hope) obvious reasons. So, again, in the multiple videos I've watched of ICE outside the Good/Pretti footage, I've heard officers tell bystanders they are free and welcome to record them, nor have I seen any ICE officers stopping bystanders from filming, including the Good/Pretti footage. I'll add to this that it's always preferable, in my opinion, to prioritise the evidence of your own eyes and ears, and to seek out the sources for yourself, over relying on a google search. | |||
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"1) I have heard the accidental firing theory … it’s not in the DHS initial report on what happened It hardly matters what the DHS initial report is when we have video/audio footage that goes against this. Unless that first shot into Pretti's back was indeed accidental, at which point the officer would seem to have gone "well... I guess I'm committed now"...? " Do you know when people think they are really, but they talk themselves into a situation where it sounds good.. but you know they don’t have a clue .. this is what merces has done 1) the preliminary report… well since the Feds wouldn’t let the local police on the scene twice ( once asking nicely and then after getting a search warrant from a federal judge) the Feds (FBI) then recused themselves from the investigation and gave it to DHS …. So….. A) DHS are in effect investigating themselves ( which doesn’t really fill with confidence and is a conflict of interest) and ….. B) DHS are the lead investigators!!! So since they are leading… the preliminary investigation is important, and since it doesn’t in any way give accidental firing of pretti’s gun (which it would since that could be used as an excuse) you are taking about something that didn’t happen (they would have shell casings if that was the case!) So if the first shot into pretti back into accidental…. Shots 2,3,4,5,6,7,8 and 9 certainly were not | |||
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"I note how some people still think they have more common sense than others. Meantime in the real world..." I note how some people are still beating around the bush instead of addressing points/answering questions directly. I note the intense irony of those same people making a plea in this very thread how everyone should do the opposite. Hmm. Truly bemusing. "Do you know when people think they are really, but they talk themselves into a situation where it sounds good.. but you know they don’t have a clue .. this is what merces has done" You really are confused, huh? Reading comprehension not exactly a strength of yours, I take it? Let's try this again... You say you have heard the 'accidental firing theory' and as a way to dismiss/counter it, instead of using the first-hand source - the video/audio footage - you instead use the fact that it wasn't in the initial DHS report, which at best is a third-hand source to prop up your point. So... my counter to that was to simply point out that it hardly matters what the initial DHS report says whether it was an accidental firing or not, because we can just go straight to the first-hand source and see for ourselves whether or not it was accidental. It serves as a much better prop for your point. You silly goose. Do you know when people try to debate, but instead of addressing points directly with concise counters and relevant examples, they just take a small part and then run with a multiple-paragraphy tangent of word salad/gish gallop... this is what _abio does. And boy does he have it down to an art form. | |||
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"I note how some people still think they have more common sense than others. Meantime in the real world... I note how some people are still beating around the bush instead of addressing points/answering questions directly. I note the intense irony of those same people making a plea in this very thread how everyone should do the opposite. Hmm. Truly bemusing. Do you know when people think they are really, but they talk themselves into a situation where it sounds good.. but you know they don’t have a clue .. this is what merces has done You really are confused, huh? Reading comprehension not exactly a strength of yours, I take it? Let's try this again... You say you have heard the 'accidental firing theory' and as a way to dismiss/counter it, instead of using the first-hand source - the video/audio footage - you instead use the fact that it wasn't in the initial DHS report, which at best is a third-hand source to prop up your point. So... my counter to that was to simply point out that it hardly matters what the initial DHS report says whether it was an accidental firing or not, because we can just go straight to the first-hand source and see for ourselves whether or not it was accidental. It serves as a much better prop for your point. You silly goose. Do you know when people try to debate, but instead of addressing points directly with concise counters and relevant examples, they just take a small part and then run with a multiple-paragraphy tangent of word salad/gish gallop... this is what _abio does. And boy does he have it down to an art form." See … you are talking yourself into a circle (jerk) of nonsense You say that the DHS preliminary investigation report is 3rd hand…. Don’t you think that in the process of the investigation that would have spoken to the their own agents themselves! If the answer to that is no.. then it’s quite a shoddy investigation If the answer to that is yes, and they didn’t mention it, lying on federal investigations is a federal criminal offence Don’t you think in anyway they used the video you keep talking about to corroborate what the agents would have said in their statements! Do yourself a favour.. you might want to have a read of the actual preliminary report Actually… I’ll do you a “solid”…….. Google’s AI is a wonderful thing… here is it’s summary of the report
A preliminary DHS report concerning the fatal shooting of 37-year-old intensive care nurse Alex Pretti in Minneapolis on January 24, 2026, indicates two federal agents fired their weapons during a struggle, contradicting initial claims that Pretti was "brandishing" a gun. The report, sent to Congress, shows no evidence of weapon brandishing and has sparked calls for an investigation and the removal of DHS Secretary Kristi Noem.
Key Findings from the DHS Preliminary Report & Investigations
Two Agents Involved: Contrary to early accounts, two Customs and Border Protection (CBP) agents fired their weapons during the fatal struggle.
No "Brandishing" Found: The report did not support previous claims by DHS Secretary Noem that Pretti, a legally permitted gun owner with no criminal history, was brandishing a weapon.
Conflicting Accounts: While officials alleged a gun was present, analysis of video and the report suggests a chaotic struggle where an agent shouted about a gun before shooting.
Aftermath: The two agents involved were placed on administrative leave. Local officials secured a court order to prevent federal officials from destroying evidence.
Political Fallout: The incident, coming shortly after another fatal ICE agent shooting in the area, led to bipartisan criticism, with lawmakers calling for an independent investigation and the potential resignation of high-level DHS officials.
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"I note how some people still think they have more common sense than others. Meantime in the real world... I note how some people are still beating around the bush instead of addressing points/answering questions directly. I note the intense irony of those same people making a plea in this very thread how everyone should do the opposite. Hmm. Truly bemusing. Do you know when people think they are really, but they talk themselves into a situation where it sounds good.. but you know they don’t have a clue .. this is what merces has done You really are confused, huh? Reading comprehension not exactly a strength of yours, I take it? Let's try this again... You say you have heard the 'accidental firing theory' and as a way to dismiss/counter it, instead of using the first-hand source - the video/audio footage - you instead use the fact that it wasn't in the initial DHS report, which at best is a third-hand source to prop up your point. So... my counter to that was to simply point out that it hardly matters what the initial DHS report says whether it was an accidental firing or not, because we can just go straight to the first-hand source and see for ourselves whether or not it was accidental. It serves as a much better prop for your point. You silly goose. Do you know when people try to debate, but instead of addressing points directly with concise counters and relevant examples, they just take a small part and then run with a multiple-paragraphy tangent of word salad/gish gallop... this is what _abio does. And boy does he have it down to an art form. See … you are talking yourself into a circle (jerk) of nonsense You say that the DHS preliminary investigation report is 3rd hand…. Don’t you think that in the process of the investigation that would have spoken to the their own agents themselves! If the answer to that is no.. then it’s quite a shoddy investigation If the answer to that is yes, and they didn’t mention it, lying on federal investigations is a federal criminal offence Don’t you think in anyway they used the video you keep talking about to corroborate what the agents would have said in their statements! Do yourself a favour.. you might want to have a read of the actual preliminary report Actually… I’ll do you a “solid”…….. Google’s AI is a wonderful thing… here is it’s summary of the report
A preliminary DHS report concerning the fatal shooting of 37-year-old intensive care nurse Alex Pretti in Minneapolis on January 24, 2026, indicates two federal agents fired their weapons during a struggle, contradicting initial claims that Pretti was "brandishing" a gun. The report, sent to Congress, shows no evidence of weapon brandishing and has sparked calls for an investigation and the removal of DHS Secretary Kristi Noem.
Key Findings from the DHS Preliminary Report & Investigations
Two Agents Involved: Contrary to early accounts, two Customs and Border Protection (CBP) agents fired their weapons during the fatal struggle.
No "Brandishing" Found: The report did not support previous claims by DHS Secretary Noem that Pretti, a legally permitted gun owner with no criminal history, was brandishing a weapon.
Conflicting Accounts: While officials alleged a gun was present, analysis of video and the report suggests a chaotic struggle where an agent shouted about a gun before shooting.
Aftermath: The two agents involved were placed on administrative leave. Local officials secured a court order to prevent federal officials from destroying evidence.
Political Fallout: The incident, coming shortly after another fatal ICE agent shooting in the area, led to bipartisan criticism, with lawmakers calling for an independent investigation and the potential resignation of high-level DHS officials.
"I gave up _abio. Sometimes it’s better to leave it, some people are stuck with their ideas and won’t change even if you show them the reality on a video. Can’t be arsed to waste my time with endless discussions when people think they know all | |||
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" I gave up _abio. Sometimes it’s better to leave it, some people are stuck with their ideas and won’t change even if you show them the reality on a video. Can’t be arsed to waste my time with endless discussions when people think they know all" You need to realise that you're the ones out of touch both here in the UK and in the great USA Eventually you will wake up and smell the coffee and realise ICE are in the right, and the two villains who broke the law, faced the strong arm of the Law enforced. | |||
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" ..realise ICE are in the right, and the two villains who broke the law, faced the strong arm of the Law enforced. " Whereas there is a real argument for the goals and aims of ICE being right, and those who aim to frustrate these aims as being wrong, it's much more nuanced than that. Arguably, from a legal and democratic point of view, ICE is right to be doing what they're doing in terms of deportations, with some highly publicised screw-ups. The protestors are getting in the way of the law, no matter what their conscience tells them. On the other hand, the training and vetting of some individual agents is clearly lacking, the processes are poorly thought through and implemented, and upper management is highly politicised. Heads should roll at the top of the organisation, since training, processes, vetting and management is on them. What has happened is wrong, and it's the job of the media to put a spotlight on this to enable the public to voice (and vote) their opinion. At the same time, politicians egging on protestors is borderline treason, and they should be punished at the polls - not that it's likely. This whole debacle is a conflation of the right v left saga, where both sides indulge in righteous indignation and extreme action. There are very few adults left in the room. | |||
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" ..realise ICE are in the right, and the two villains who broke the law, faced the strong arm of the Law enforced. Whereas there is a real argument for the goals and aims of ICE being right, and those who aim to frustrate these aims as being wrong, it's much more nuanced than that. Arguably, from a legal and democratic point of view, ICE is right to be doing what they're doing in terms of deportations, with some highly publicised screw-ups. The protestors are getting in the way of the law, no matter what their conscience tells them. On the other hand, the training and vetting of some individual agents is clearly lacking, the processes are poorly thought through and implemented, and upper management is highly politicised. Heads should roll at the top of the organisation, since training, processes, vetting and management is on them. What has happened is wrong, and it's the job of the media to put a spotlight on this to enable the public to voice (and vote) their opinion. At the same time, politicians egging on protestors is borderline treason, and they should be punished at the polls - not that it's likely. This whole debacle is a conflation of the right v left saga, where both sides indulge in righteous indignation and extreme action. There are very few adults left in the room." It is only YOUR opinion when you say "what has happened is wrong" as the majority both in UK and the Great USA fully believe that the Villains got what they deserved. . . . | |||
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" ..realise ICE are in the right, and the two villains who broke the law, faced the strong arm of the Law enforced. Whereas there is a real argument for the goals and aims of ICE being right, and those who aim to frustrate these aims as being wrong, it's much more nuanced than that. Arguably, from a legal and democratic point of view, ICE is right to be doing what they're doing in terms of deportations, with some highly publicised screw-ups. The protestors are getting in the way of the law, no matter what their conscience tells them. On the other hand, the training and vetting of some individual agents is clearly lacking, the processes are poorly thought through and implemented, and upper management is highly politicised. Heads should roll at the top of the organisation, since training, processes, vetting and management is on them. What has happened is wrong, and it's the job of the media to put a spotlight on this to enable the public to voice (and vote) their opinion. At the same time, politicians egging on protestors is borderline treason, and they should be punished at the polls - not that it's likely. This whole debacle is a conflation of the right v left saga, where both sides indulge in righteous indignation and extreme action. There are very few adults left in the room. It is only YOUR opinion when you say "what has happened is wrong" as the majority both in UK and the Great USA fully believe that the Villains got what they deserved. . . ." No ray.. They really dont say that.. Not good to make things up is it? | |||
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"This is what hard working ICE agents have to put up with; . Kyle Wagner, 37, was arrested on federal charges of cyberstalking and making threatening communications after he allegedly called for the murder and assault of federal immigration officers in Minneapolis. This man doxxed and called for the murder of law enforcement officers, encouraged bloodshed in the streets, and proudly claimed affiliation with the terrorist organization Antifa before going on the run," Attorney General Pam Bondi said in a statement. "Today's arrest illustrates that you cannot run, you cannot hide, and you cannot evade our federal agents: if you come for law enforcement, the Trump Administration will come for you, and shoot you dead if we want to. " | |||
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"See … you are talking yourself into a circle (jerk) of nonsense ..." 14 paragraph response and not a SINGLE relevant response or counter to what I said... which I will repeat: pretend the initial report mentions a possible accidental firing. Now, what's changed about what actually happened? What's different regarding the video/audio evidence? Answer - nothing. My point stands. "some people are stuck with their ideas and won’t change even if you show them the reality on a video." 'Some people' is such a weird way of referring to yourself. Still waiting for you to provide even a single direct example. "Can’t be arsed to waste my time with endless discussions" This is demonstrably fasle, you've done little but waste time beating around the bush in this thread! If you actually engaged in good faith and were even slightly intellectually honest, you might just find the discussion actually goes somewhere and is less endless. "Whereas there is a real argument for the goals and aims of ICE being right, and those who aim to frustrate these aims as being wrong, it's much more nuanced than that. Arguably, from a legal and democratic point of view, ICE is right to be doing what they're doing in terms of deportations, with some highly publicised screw-ups. The protestors are getting in the way of the law, no matter what their conscience tells them. On the other hand, the training and vetting of some individual agents is clearly lacking, the processes are poorly thought through and implemented, and upper management is highly politicised. Heads should roll at the top of the organisation, since training, processes, vetting and management is on them. What has happened is wrong, and it's the job of the media to put a spotlight on this to enable the public to voice (and vote) their opinion. At the same time, politicians egging on protestors is borderline treason, and they should be punished at the polls - not that it's likely. This whole debacle is a conflation of the right v left saga, where both sides indulge in righteous indignation and extreme action. There are very few adults left in the room." Wow. An actual reasonable, rational, balanced post. Well said. (take note, peeps) | |||
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" ..realise ICE are in the right, and the two villains who broke the law, faced the strong arm of the Law enforced. Whereas there is a real argument for the goals and aims of ICE being right, and those who aim to frustrate these aims as being wrong, it's much more nuanced than that. Arguably, from a legal and democratic point of view, ICE is right to be doing what they're doing in terms of deportations, with some highly publicised screw-ups. The protestors are getting in the way of the law, no matter what their conscience tells them. On the other hand, the training and vetting of some individual agents is clearly lacking, the processes are poorly thought through and implemented, and upper management is highly politicised. Heads should roll at the top of the organisation, since training, processes, vetting and management is on them. What has happened is wrong, and it's the job of the media to put a spotlight on this to enable the public to voice (and vote) their opinion. At the same time, politicians egging on protestors is borderline treason, and they should be punished at the polls - not that it's likely. This whole debacle is a conflation of the right v left saga, where both sides indulge in righteous indignation and extreme action. There are very few adults left in the room." Well put TM.👏 | |||
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