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"I can see that Trump might want to declare it, sending in more ice is designed to provoke already angry citizens.." That exactly what he is trying to do by sending in 2000 more ICE agents… I am glad the people of Minneapolis and St.Paul are basically telling them in no uncertain terms to Piss off He tried the same tactics in LA and Chicago and they stood up to him Because people can see the government version isn’t the same as the video, getting their version out first has not helped them | |||
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"Should we be asking, what has gone wrong with upholding law and order in some Democratic states and cities to the point federal law enforcement is needed to do the job? " To that I would say of the 12 most violent cities by population per capita… 10 of them happen to be in states that have republican governors… so they could ask for the extra resources trump is begging to give away (and no.. New York, Chicago, LA and Portland are not in those 12) Anyway.. of the 10 cities that have republican governors so they could send in their own states national guard… how many has governors that have asked Trump for the extra people when offered, eventually because the original answer was zero…. It’s now 2…. Memphis and New Orleans | |||
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"Should we be asking, what has gone wrong with upholding law and order in some Democratic states and cities to the point federal law enforcement is needed to do the job? To that I would say of the 12 most violent cities by population per capita… 10 of them happen to be in states that have republican governors… so they could ask for the extra resources trump is begging to give away (and no.. New York, Chicago, LA and Portland are not in those 12) Anyway.. of the 10 cities that have republican governors so they could send in their own states national guard… how many has governors that have asked Trump for the extra people when offered, eventually because the original answer was zero…. It’s now 2…. Memphis and New Orleans " Name the 12 states. | |||
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"Should we be asking, what has gone wrong with upholding law and order in some Democratic states and cities to the point federal law enforcement is needed to do the job? To that I would say of the 12 most violent cities by population per capita… 10 of them happen to be in states that have republican governors… so they could ask for the extra resources trump is begging to give away (and no.. New York, Chicago, LA and Portland are not in those 12) Anyway.. of the 10 cities that have republican governors so they could send in their own states national guard… how many has governors that have asked Trump for the extra people when offered, eventually because the original answer was zero…. It’s now 2…. Memphis and New Orleans " The example you have given is not a state or city not upholding laws, it is people breaking laws. I could deflect it back and say that it is more likely the democratic states and cities who are not upholding laws, are not reporting on crimes either. I think my question is still valid, why are some democratic states and cities not upholding the law? | |||
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"Should we be asking, what has gone wrong with upholding law and order in some Democratic states and cities to the point federal law enforcement is needed to do the job? To that I would say of the 12 most violent cities by population per capita… 10 of them happen to be in states that have republican governors… so they could ask for the extra resources trump is begging to give away (and no.. New York, Chicago, LA and Portland are not in those 12) Anyway.. of the 10 cities that have republican governors so they could send in their own states national guard… how many has governors that have asked Trump for the extra people when offered, eventually because the original answer was zero…. It’s now 2…. Memphis and New Orleans Name the 12 states." God now you are going to make me remember because when Trump mentioned Chicago, this was always brought up to counter that he wasn’t being even handed So I know Memphis and New Orleans now both had federal people I know St Louis was on the list, knoxville, Kansas city, Miami, Birmingham, Cleveland, Little Rock, Louisville | |||
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"Should we be asking, what has gone wrong with upholding law and order in some Democratic states and cities to the point federal law enforcement is needed to do the job? To that I would say of the 12 most violent cities by population per capita… 10 of them happen to be in states that have republican governors… so they could ask for the extra resources trump is begging to give away (and no.. New York, Chicago, LA and Portland are not in those 12) Anyway.. of the 10 cities that have republican governors so they could send in their own states national guard… how many has governors that have asked Trump for the extra people when offered, eventually because the original answer was zero…. It’s now 2…. Memphis and New Orleans Name the 12 states. God now you are going to make me remember because when Trump mentioned Chicago, this was always brought up to counter that he wasn’t being even handed So I know Memphis and New Orleans now both had federal people I know St Louis was on the list, knoxville, Kansas city, Miami, Birmingham, Cleveland, Little Rock, Louisville " From which parties do mayor of these cities come from? | |||
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"I was wondering whether London would get Trump taking it over similarly, now that murder rates have dropped to an 11 years low" The 11 years choice is interesting. The numbers basically went back to what it was before Sadiq took over. There was a surge in crime once he became mayor. It took him ten years to bring it back to normal. And we have to consider that as his achievement? | |||
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"Should we be asking, what has gone wrong with upholding law and order in some Democratic states and cities to the point federal law enforcement is needed to do the job? To that I would say of the 12 most violent cities by population per capita… 10 of them happen to be in states that have republican governors… so they could ask for the extra resources trump is begging to give away (and no.. New York, Chicago, LA and Portland are not in those 12) Anyway.. of the 10 cities that have republican governors so they could send in their own states national guard… how many has governors that have asked Trump for the extra people when offered, eventually because the original answer was zero…. It’s now 2…. Memphis and New Orleans Name the 12 states. God now you are going to make me remember because when Trump mentioned Chicago, this was always brought up to counter that he wasn’t being even handed So I know Memphis and New Orleans now both had federal people I know St Louis was on the list, knoxville, Kansas city, Miami, Birmingham, Cleveland, Little Rock, Louisville From which parties do mayor of these cities come from?"   | |||
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"Should we be asking, what has gone wrong with upholding law and order in some Democratic states and cities to the point federal law enforcement is needed to do the job? To that I would say of the 12 most violent cities by population per capita… 10 of them happen to be in states that have republican governors… so they could ask for the extra resources trump is begging to give away (and no.. New York, Chicago, LA and Portland are not in those 12) Anyway.. of the 10 cities that have republican governors so they could send in their own states national guard… how many has governors that have asked Trump for the extra people when offered, eventually because the original answer was zero…. It’s now 2…. Memphis and New Orleans Name the 12 states. God now you are going to make me remember because when Trump mentioned Chicago, this was always brought up to counter that he wasn’t being even handed So I know Memphis and New Orleans now both had federal people I know St Louis was on the list, knoxville, Kansas city, Miami, Birmingham, Cleveland, Little Rock, Louisville From which parties do mayor of these cities come from?" It doesn’t matter… it’s the governor of those states that has power over the national guard and if they should be deployed… But I will correct myself… Louisville… is Kentucky and they actually have a democrat governor The others… Florida, Ohio, Alabama, Tennessee, Louisiana, Missouri ( and Kansas), Florida and Arkansas… all have republican governors | |||
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"Should we be asking, what has gone wrong with upholding law and order in some Democratic states and cities to the point federal law enforcement is needed to do the job? To that I would say of the 12 most violent cities by population per capita… 10 of them happen to be in states that have republican governors… so they could ask for the extra resources trump is begging to give away (and no.. New York, Chicago, LA and Portland are not in those 12) Anyway.. of the 10 cities that have republican governors so they could send in their own states national guard… how many has governors that have asked Trump for the extra people when offered, eventually because the original answer was zero…. It’s now 2…. Memphis and New Orleans Name the 12 states. God now you are going to make me remember because when Trump mentioned Chicago, this was always brought up to counter that he wasn’t being even handed So I know Memphis and New Orleans now both had federal people I know St Louis was on the list, knoxville, Kansas city, Miami, Birmingham, Cleveland, Little Rock, Louisville From which parties do mayor of these cities come from? It doesn’t matter… it’s the governor of those states that has power over the national guard and if they should be deployed… But I will correct myself… Louisville… is Kentucky and they actually have a democrat governor The others… Florida, Ohio, Alabama, Tennessee, Louisiana, Missouri ( and Kansas), Florida and Arkansas… all have republican governors " That's not the original point NotMe was making - "what has gone wrong with upholding law and order in some Democratic states and cities to the point federal law enforcement is needed to do the job" Mayors of these cities have more power and responsibilities when it comes to establishing law and order there than the governors. | |||
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"I was wondering whether London would get Trump taking it over similarly, now that murder rates have dropped to an 11 years low The 11 years choice is interesting. The numbers basically went back to what it was before Sadiq took over. There was a surge in crime once he became mayor. It took him ten years to bring it back to normal. And we have to consider that as his achievement?" Trump should definitely take over London then  | |||
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" That's not the original point NotMe was making - "what has gone wrong with upholding law and order in some Democratic states and cities to the point federal law enforcement is needed to do the job" Mayors of these cities have more power and responsibilities when it comes to establishing law and order there than the governors." To which my point is 2 fold…. ( you’ll notice I am about to actually answer a straight question.. you might actually want to try it sometime  … )
1) it’s not just democratic states.. it’s republican ones as well, and the trump administration is not applying the same standard, because if it was those cities in those states where the governor has powers over and above those of the mayors …
governor have the powers to call up their states national guard over and above the objections of a mayor
For example, Minnesota governor Tim Walz did this after Renee good was murdered
2) the mayors of every single one of those cities (and countless others) have said every single time “we have enough police in our cities and they have the situation in hand to where we do not need extra assistance from federal agencies “
Do you know how many cities in the United States have actually invited the invitation of extra federal forces … the answer is zero! …. Both democratic and republican mayors… zero! | |||
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" That's not the original point NotMe was making - "what has gone wrong with upholding law and order in some Democratic states and cities to the point federal law enforcement is needed to do the job" Mayors of these cities have more power and responsibilities when it comes to establishing law and order there than the governors. To which my point is 2 fold…. ( you’ll notice I am about to actually answer a straight question.. you might actually want to try it sometime … )
1) it’s not just democratic states.. it’s republican ones as well, and the trump administration is not applying the same standard, because if it was those cities in those states where the governor has powers over and above those of the mayors …
governor have the powers to call up their states national guard over and above the objections of a mayor
For example, Minnesota governor Tim Walz did this after Renee good was murdered
2) the mayors of every single one of those cities (and countless others) have said every single time “we have enough police in our cities and they have the situation in hand to where we do not need extra assistance from federal agencies “
Do you know how many cities in the United States have actually invited the invitation of extra federal forces … the answer is zero! …. Both democratic and republican mayors… zero! "The question still hasn't been answered, the question had the word "some" in it, not all. "what has gone wrong with upholding law and order in "some" Democratic states and cities to the point federal law enforcement is needed to do the job". There are more issues in "some" Democratic states and cities in upholding the law of the land, and it is having a detrimental impact when federal enforcement needs to step in, why is that? | |||
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" That's not the original point NotMe was making - "what has gone wrong with upholding law and order in some Democratic states and cities to the point federal law enforcement is needed to do the job" Mayors of these cities have more power and responsibilities when it comes to establishing law and order there than the governors. To which my point is 2 fold…. ( you’ll notice I am about to actually answer a straight question.. you might actually want to try it sometime … )
1) it’s not just democratic states.. it’s republican ones as well, and the trump administration is not applying the same standard, because if it was those cities in those states where the governor has powers over and above those of the mayors …
governor have the powers to call up their states national guard over and above the objections of a mayor
For example, Minnesota governor Tim Walz did this after Renee good was murdered
2) the mayors of every single one of those cities (and countless others) have said every single time “we have enough police in our cities and they have the situation in hand to where we do not need extra assistance from federal agencies “
Do you know how many cities in the United States have actually invited the invitation of extra federal forces … the answer is zero! …. Both democratic and republican mayors… zero!
The question still hasn't been answered, the question had the word "some" in it, not all.
"what has gone wrong with upholding law and order in "some" Democratic states and cities to the point federal law enforcement is needed to do the job".
There are more issues in "some" Democratic states and cities in upholding the law of the land, and it is having a detrimental impact when federal enforcement needs to step in, why is that? "So which Democratic states are you talking about when you say “some”? Name them ! Stop being general If the answer is Minnesota… to which the initial post is about.. then like I said, Minnesota governor Tim Walz did call up the national guard in the wake of the murder (or homicide if you want to be pedantic as some like to be around here) of Renee Good by ICE agents But other than that… not one mayor in the United States… democrat or republican.. has openly invited the Trump administration of extra federal enforcement agents Every single one has said their own police department has enough resources in place to deal with the current situation even when offered | |||
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" That's not the original point NotMe was making - "what has gone wrong with upholding law and order in some Democratic states and cities to the point federal law enforcement is needed to do the job" Mayors of these cities have more power and responsibilities when it comes to establishing law and order there than the governors. To which my point is 2 fold…. ( you’ll notice I am about to actually answer a straight question.. you might actually want to try it sometime … )
1) it’s not just democratic states.. it’s republican ones as well, and the trump administration is not applying the same standard, because if it was those cities in those states where the governor has powers over and above those of the mayors …
governor have the powers to call up their states national guard over and above the objections of a mayor
For example, Minnesota governor Tim Walz did this after Renee good was murdered
2) the mayors of every single one of those cities (and countless others) have said every single time “we have enough police in our cities and they have the situation in hand to where we do not need extra assistance from federal agencies “
Do you know how many cities in the United States have actually invited the invitation of extra federal forces … the answer is zero! …. Both democratic and republican mayors… zero!
The question still hasn't been answered, the question had the word "some" in it, not all.
"what has gone wrong with upholding law and order in "some" Democratic states and cities to the point federal law enforcement is needed to do the job".
There are more issues in "some" Democratic states and cities in upholding the law of the land, and it is having a detrimental impact when federal enforcement needs to step in, why is that?
So which Democratic states are you talking about when you say “some”? Name them ! Stop being general
If the answer is Minnesota… to which the initial post is about.. then like I said, Minnesota governor Tim Walz did call up the national guard in the wake of the murder (or homicide if you want to be pedantic as some like to be around here) of Renee Good by ICE agents
But other than that… not one mayor in the United States… democrat or republican.. has openly invited the Trump administration of extra federal enforcement agents
Every single one has said their own police department has enough resources in place to deal with the current situation even when offered "California, Los Angeles, San Francisco, Illinois, Chicago Minnesota, Minneapolis, St Paul Oregon, Portland Washington, Seattle New York, NYC Going back to 2020 Seattle rioters created CHAZ, which was declared a self autonomous zone. Police withdraw under direction, murders were taking place inside the area. The mayor approved the police being withdrawn and called it the summer of love! Interestingly the Governor did not approve this... I obviously needed to google these so I wasn't getting it wrong, and these are the basis for my question. What makes these areas so unmanageable when it comes to law enforcement? | |||
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" That's not the original point NotMe was making - "what has gone wrong with upholding law and order in some Democratic states and cities to the point federal law enforcement is needed to do the job" Mayors of these cities have more power and responsibilities when it comes to establishing law and order there than the governors. To which my point is 2 fold…. ( you’ll notice I am about to actually answer a straight question.. you might actually want to try it sometime … )
1) it’s not just democratic states.. it’s republican ones as well, and the trump administration is not applying the same standard, because if it was those cities in those states where the governor has powers over and above those of the mayors …
governor have the powers to call up their states national guard over and above the objections of a mayor
For example, Minnesota governor Tim Walz did this after Renee good was murdered
2) the mayors of every single one of those cities (and countless others) have said every single time “we have enough police in our cities and they have the situation in hand to where we do not need extra assistance from federal agencies “
Do you know how many cities in the United States have actually invited the invitation of extra federal forces … the answer is zero! …. Both democratic and republican mayors… zero!
The question still hasn't been answered, the question had the word "some" in it, not all.
"what has gone wrong with upholding law and order in "some" Democratic states and cities to the point federal law enforcement is needed to do the job".
There are more issues in "some" Democratic states and cities in upholding the law of the land, and it is having a detrimental impact when federal enforcement needs to step in, why is that?
So which Democratic states are you talking about when you say “some”? Name them ! Stop being general
If the answer is Minnesota… to which the initial post is about.. then like I said, Minnesota governor Tim Walz did call up the national guard in the wake of the murder (or homicide if you want to be pedantic as some like to be around here) of Renee Good by ICE agents
But other than that… not one mayor in the United States… democrat or republican.. has openly invited the Trump administration of extra federal enforcement agents
Every single one has said their own police department has enough resources in place to deal with the current situation even when offered
California, Los Angeles, San Francisco, Illinois, Chicago
Minnesota, Minneapolis, St Paul
Oregon, Portland
Washington, Seattle
New York, NYC
Going back to 2020 Seattle rioters created CHAZ, which was declared a self autonomous zone. Police withdraw under direction, murders were taking place inside the area. The mayor approved the police being withdrawn and called it the summer of love! Interestingly the Governor did not approve this...
I obviously needed to google these so I wasn't getting it wrong, and these are the basis for my question.
What makes these areas so unmanageable when it comes to law enforcement? "Oooh… so that is the game.. gotcha.. the fox/right wing only crime happens in those cities game So let’s play it So for all of those cities, the top cop, be that the commissioner of police in New York Jessica Tisch, or the chief of police in LA (Jim mcdougal) in San Francisco (Derrick Lew) in Chicago (Larry Snelling) and in Portland (Bob day) and in Seattle (Shon Barnes) and in Minneapolis (Brian o’hara) have all said very publicly that they do NOT need any extra federal security for their cities and have enough of their own police men and women to take care of any incidents So I assume that the mayor’s of those cities take advice from their heads of police And then I assume that the governors of those states take advice from mayors of those cities So their governors Kathy hochul in New York, Gavin newsome in California, J.B Prizker in Illinois, bob ferguson in Washington, Tina Kotek of Oregon and Tim Walz of Minnesota have not felt the need to call upon the resources of their states national guard (Walz finally sent his in as a countermeasure to quell discomfort from locals for DHS flooding his state with ICE agents after the murder/homicide of Renee good) Trump tried to, yet again, overstep his authority by trying to overrule the governor’s and call up the national guard in California, Oregon and Illinois and federalise them.. and got told that was illegal by the courts He then tried to do an end around and got governors in “red states” to volunteer to send their national guard troops… and got told that was illegal And yet… and we go back full circle to the original answer… he has not done the same in any red state, and no red state governor has asked for help! So who is likely to know about the local situation on the ground and whether they would need assistance …. The local police… or the federal government? | |||
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" That's not the original point NotMe was making - "what has gone wrong with upholding law and order in some Democratic states and cities to the point federal law enforcement is needed to do the job" Mayors of these cities have more power and responsibilities when it comes to establishing law and order there than the governors. To which my point is 2 fold…. ( you’ll notice I am about to actually answer a straight question.. you might actually want to try it sometime … )
1) it’s not just democratic states.. it’s republican ones as well, and the trump administration is not applying the same standard, because if it was those cities in those states where the governor has powers over and above those of the mayors …
governor have the powers to call up their states national guard over and above the objections of a mayor
For example, Minnesota governor Tim Walz did this after Renee good was murdered
2) the mayors of every single one of those cities (and countless others) have said every single time “we have enough police in our cities and they have the situation in hand to where we do not need extra assistance from federal agencies “
Do you know how many cities in the United States have actually invited the invitation of extra federal forces … the answer is zero! …. Both democratic and republican mayors… zero!
The question still hasn't been answered, the question had the word "some" in it, not all.
"what has gone wrong with upholding law and order in "some" Democratic states and cities to the point federal law enforcement is needed to do the job".
There are more issues in "some" Democratic states and cities in upholding the law of the land, and it is having a detrimental impact when federal enforcement needs to step in, why is that?
So which Democratic states are you talking about when you say “some”? Name them ! Stop being general
If the answer is Minnesota… to which the initial post is about.. then like I said, Minnesota governor Tim Walz did call up the national guard in the wake of the murder (or homicide if you want to be pedantic as some like to be around here) of Renee Good by ICE agents
But other than that… not one mayor in the United States… democrat or republican.. has openly invited the Trump administration of extra federal enforcement agents
Every single one has said their own police department has enough resources in place to deal with the current situation even when offered
California, Los Angeles, San Francisco, Illinois, Chicago
Minnesota, Minneapolis, St Paul
Oregon, Portland
Washington, Seattle
New York, NYC
Going back to 2020 Seattle rioters created CHAZ, which was declared a self autonomous zone. Police withdraw under direction, murders were taking place inside the area. The mayor approved the police being withdrawn and called it the summer of love! Interestingly the Governor did not approve this...
I obviously needed to google these so I wasn't getting it wrong, and these are the basis for my question.
What makes these areas so unmanageable when it comes to law enforcement?
Oooh… so that is the game.. gotcha.. the fox/right wing only crime happens in those cities game
So let’s play it
So for all of those cities, the top cop, be that the commissioner of police in New York Jessica Tisch, or the chief of police in LA (Jim mcdougal) in San Francisco (Derrick Lew) in Chicago (Larry Snelling) and in Portland (Bob day) and in Seattle (Shon Barnes) and in Minneapolis (Brian o’hara) have all said very publicly that they do NOT need any extra federal security for their cities and have enough of their own police men and women to take care of any incidents
So I assume that the mayor’s of those cities take advice from their heads of police
And then I assume that the governors of those states take advice from mayors of those cities
So their governors Kathy hochul in New York, Gavin newsome in California, J.B Prizker in Illinois, bob ferguson in Washington, Tina Kotek of Oregon and Tim Walz of Minnesota have not felt the need to call upon the resources of their states national guard (Walz finally sent his in as a countermeasure to quell discomfort from locals for DHS flooding his state with ICE agents after the murder/homicide of Renee good)
Trump tried to, yet again, overstep his authority by trying to overrule the governor’s and call up the national guard in California, Oregon and Illinois and federalise them.. and got told that was illegal by the courts
He then tried to do an end around and got governors in “red states” to volunteer to send their national guard troops… and got told that was illegal
And yet… and we go back full circle to the original answer… he has not done the same in any red state, and no red state governor has asked for help!
So who is likely to know about the local situation on the ground and whether they would need assistance …. The local police… or the federal government? "That isn’t what I’m asking, I’m asking what has gone wrong in those cities and states that illegal activities aren’t being closed down and if there is a move to tackle the problems, riots are almost a certainty. It’s the same places the same push back, comparing the attitudes to republican areas the stats on using ICE and tackling illegal immigration are reversed in favour. There are opposing views based on state, so how is this ever going to be resolved, let crime go unchecked or tackle it, it can’t be both. | |||
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" That's not the original point NotMe was making - "what has gone wrong with upholding law and order in some Democratic states and cities to the point federal law enforcement is needed to do the job" Mayors of these cities have more power and responsibilities when it comes to establishing law and order there than the governors. To which my point is 2 fold…. ( you’ll notice I am about to actually answer a straight question.. you might actually want to try it sometime … )
1) it’s not just democratic states.. it’s republican ones as well, and the trump administration is not applying the same standard, because if it was those cities in those states where the governor has powers over and above those of the mayors …
governor have the powers to call up their states national guard over and above the objections of a mayor
For example, Minnesota governor Tim Walz did this after Renee good was murdered
2) the mayors of every single one of those cities (and countless others) have said every single time “we have enough police in our cities and they have the situation in hand to where we do not need extra assistance from federal agencies “
Do you know how many cities in the United States have actually invited the invitation of extra federal forces … the answer is zero! …. Both democratic and republican mayors… zero!
The question still hasn't been answered, the question had the word "some" in it, not all.
"what has gone wrong with upholding law and order in "some" Democratic states and cities to the point federal law enforcement is needed to do the job".
There are more issues in "some" Democratic states and cities in upholding the law of the land, and it is having a detrimental impact when federal enforcement needs to step in, why is that?
So which Democratic states are you talking about when you say “some”? Name them ! Stop being general
If the answer is Minnesota… to which the initial post is about.. then like I said, Minnesota governor Tim Walz did call up the national guard in the wake of the murder (or homicide if you want to be pedantic as some like to be around here) of Renee Good by ICE agents
But other than that… not one mayor in the United States… democrat or republican.. has openly invited the Trump administration of extra federal enforcement agents
Every single one has said their own police department has enough resources in place to deal with the current situation even when offered
California, Los Angeles, San Francisco, Illinois, Chicago
Minnesota, Minneapolis, St Paul
Oregon, Portland
Washington, Seattle
New York, NYC
Going back to 2020 Seattle rioters created CHAZ, which was declared a self autonomous zone. Police withdraw under direction, murders were taking place inside the area. The mayor approved the police being withdrawn and called it the summer of love! Interestingly the Governor did not approve this...
I obviously needed to google these so I wasn't getting it wrong, and these are the basis for my question.
What makes these areas so unmanageable when it comes to law enforcement?
Oooh… so that is the game.. gotcha.. the fox/right wing only crime happens in those cities game
So let’s play it
So for all of those cities, the top cop, be that the commissioner of police in New York Jessica Tisch, or the chief of police in LA (Jim mcdougal) in San Francisco (Derrick Lew) in Chicago (Larry Snelling) and in Portland (Bob day) and in Seattle (Shon Barnes) and in Minneapolis (Brian o’hara) have all said very publicly that they do NOT need any extra federal security for their cities and have enough of their own police men and women to take care of any incidents
So I assume that the mayor’s of those cities take advice from their heads of police
And then I assume that the governors of those states take advice from mayors of those cities
So their governors Kathy hochul in New York, Gavin newsome in California, J.B Prizker in Illinois, bob ferguson in Washington, Tina Kotek of Oregon and Tim Walz of Minnesota have not felt the need to call upon the resources of their states national guard (Walz finally sent his in as a countermeasure to quell discomfort from locals for DHS flooding his state with ICE agents after the murder/homicide of Renee good)
Trump tried to, yet again, overstep his authority by trying to overrule the governor’s and call up the national guard in California, Oregon and Illinois and federalise them.. and got told that was illegal by the courts
He then tried to do an end around and got governors in “red states” to volunteer to send their national guard troops… and got told that was illegal
And yet… and we go back full circle to the original answer… he has not done the same in any red state, and no red state governor has asked for help!
So who is likely to know about the local situation on the ground and whether they would need assistance …. The local police… or the federal government?
That isn’t what I’m asking, I’m asking what has gone wrong in those cities and states that illegal activities aren’t being closed down and if there is a move to tackle the problems, riots are almost a certainty. It’s the same places the same push back, comparing the attitudes to republican areas the stats on using ICE and tackling illegal immigration are reversed in favour.
There are opposing views based on state, so how is this ever going to be resolved, let crime go unchecked or tackle it, it can’t be both. "In most of these cities illegal migrants make up a large part of the Democrats voting and funding base. Look at Minneapolis for a perfect example. | |||
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"I was wondering whether London would get Trump taking it over similarly, now that murder rates have dropped to an 11 years low The 11 years choice is interesting. The numbers basically went back to what it was before Sadiq took over. There was a surge in crime once he became mayor. It took him ten years to bring it back to normal. And we have to consider that as his achievement?" Over the last 11 years the population of London has increased by 7.7%. That means in real terms the rate of violent crime per capita has dropped. | |||
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"I was wondering whether London would get Trump taking it over similarly, now that murder rates have dropped to an 11 years low The 11 years choice is interesting. The numbers basically went back to what it was before Sadiq took over. There was a surge in crime once he became mayor. It took him ten years to bring it back to normal. And we have to consider that as his achievement? Over the last 11 years the population of London has increased by 7.7%. That means in real terms the rate of violent crime per capita has dropped." Except it clearly hasn’t - the murder rate might’ve dropped in the period but murders are not exactly commonplace events, therefore any change can be manipulated with statistics. With regard to other offending: Sex offences up 66% Knife crime up 67% Violent crime up 41% Drug offences up 27% Street theft up 180% Moped street robbery up 600% | |||
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"I was wondering whether London would get Trump taking it over similarly, now that murder rates have dropped to an 11 years low The 11 years choice is interesting. The numbers basically went back to what it was before Sadiq took over. There was a surge in crime once he became mayor. It took him ten years to bring it back to normal. And we have to consider that as his achievement? Over the last 11 years the population of London has increased by 7.7%. That means in real terms the rate of violent crime per capita has dropped." Not much lower than what it was before he took over. Unfortunately, the Sadiq propaganda machine has been working tirelessly to make people believe that he is the one who reduced murders in the city. People must remember that this was the news in 2018: "Most London homicides for a decade" https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-london-46540182 | |||
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"Khans best achievement has been keeping the tories out surely? "An achievement for himself, of course. Not much for the women, for example. The number of sexual offences went up from 17.5K when he took over, to over 26K last year | |||
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" That's not the original point NotMe was making - "what has gone wrong with upholding law and order in some Democratic states and cities to the point federal law enforcement is needed to do the job" Mayors of these cities have more power and responsibilities when it comes to establishing law and order there than the governors. To which my point is 2 fold…. ( you’ll notice I am about to actually answer a straight question.. you might actually want to try it sometime … )
1) it’s not just democratic states.. it’s republican ones as well, and the trump administration is not applying the same standard, because if it was those cities in those states where the governor has powers over and above those of the mayors …
governor have the powers to call up their states national guard over and above the objections of a mayor
For example, Minnesota governor Tim Walz did this after Renee good was murdered
2) the mayors of every single one of those cities (and countless others) have said every single time “we have enough police in our cities and they have the situation in hand to where we do not need extra assistance from federal agencies “
Do you know how many cities in the United States have actually invited the invitation of extra federal forces … the answer is zero! …. Both democratic and republican mayors… zero!
The question still hasn't been answered, the question had the word "some" in it, not all.
"what has gone wrong with upholding law and order in "some" Democratic states and cities to the point federal law enforcement is needed to do the job".
There are more issues in "some" Democratic states and cities in upholding the law of the land, and it is having a detrimental impact when federal enforcement needs to step in, why is that?
So which Democratic states are you talking about when you say “some”? Name them ! Stop being general
If the answer is Minnesota… to which the initial post is about.. then like I said, Minnesota governor Tim Walz did call up the national guard in the wake of the murder (or homicide if you want to be pedantic as some like to be around here) of Renee Good by ICE agents
But other than that… not one mayor in the United States… democrat or republican.. has openly invited the Trump administration of extra federal enforcement agents
Every single one has said their own police department has enough resources in place to deal with the current situation even when offered
California, Los Angeles, San Francisco, Illinois, Chicago
Minnesota, Minneapolis, St Paul
Oregon, Portland
Washington, Seattle
New York, NYC
Going back to 2020 Seattle rioters created CHAZ, which was declared a self autonomous zone. Police withdraw under direction, murders were taking place inside the area. The mayor approved the police being withdrawn and called it the summer of love! Interestingly the Governor did not approve this...
I obviously needed to google these so I wasn't getting it wrong, and these are the basis for my question.
What makes these areas so unmanageable when it comes to law enforcement?
Oooh… so that is the game.. gotcha.. the fox/right wing only crime happens in those cities game
So let’s play it
So for all of those cities, the top cop, be that the commissioner of police in New York Jessica Tisch, or the chief of police in LA (Jim mcdougal) in San Francisco (Derrick Lew) in Chicago (Larry Snelling) and in Portland (Bob day) and in Seattle (Shon Barnes) and in Minneapolis (Brian o’hara) have all said very publicly that they do NOT need any extra federal security for their cities and have enough of their own police men and women to take care of any incidents
So I assume that the mayor’s of those cities take advice from their heads of police
And then I assume that the governors of those states take advice from mayors of those cities
So their governors Kathy hochul in New York, Gavin newsome in California, J.B Prizker in Illinois, bob ferguson in Washington, Tina Kotek of Oregon and Tim Walz of Minnesota have not felt the need to call upon the resources of their states national guard (Walz finally sent his in as a countermeasure to quell discomfort from locals for DHS flooding his state with ICE agents after the murder/homicide of Renee good)
Trump tried to, yet again, overstep his authority by trying to overrule the governor’s and call up the national guard in California, Oregon and Illinois and federalise them.. and got told that was illegal by the courts
He then tried to do an end around and got governors in “red states” to volunteer to send their national guard troops… and got told that was illegal
And yet… and we go back full circle to the original answer… he has not done the same in any red state, and no red state governor has asked for help!
So who is likely to know about the local situation on the ground and whether they would need assistance …. The local police… or the federal government?
That isn’t what I’m asking, I’m asking what has gone wrong in those cities and states that illegal activities aren’t being closed down and if there is a move to tackle the problems, riots are almost a certainty. It’s the same places the same push back, comparing the attitudes to republican areas the stats on using ICE and tackling illegal immigration are reversed in favour.
There are opposing views based on state, so how is this ever going to be resolved, let crime go unchecked or tackle it, it can’t be both. "But you are pushing a narrative that crime and violence in those cities are out of control.. the problem is that if you use both DHS and DOJ own statistics, a) its nowhere near true… and b) there are a lot of cities that are in a worse position None of the cities you mentioned are in the top 20 of cities per capita for murder or violent crime… and as I said earlier, because it seems to be going in one ear and out the other, there are cities in red states with red governors who could call up the national guard… or trump could offer to send in federal assistance if he was applying the same standard.. which he isn’t… it’s only blue states that have issues Which could be the reason why trump tried to cancel energy building contracts in blue states only… and yesterday that got blocked by the courts yesterday as being illegal And trump tried to take away childcare spending specifically away from blue states… and again yesterday that got blocked by the courts yesterday as being illegal…. Notice a pattern on how trump deals with blue states and those who he deems to have done him wrong… | |||
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" In most of these cities illegal migrants make up a large part of the Democrats voting and funding base. Look at Minneapolis for a perfect example." I am so glad you made the same claim here that you made in post 175 of the Renee good murder/homicide thread.. and I have been stewing for 3 days thinking should I let someone do fundamentally wrong slide or do I start a new thread just to answer it So let’s start with the fundamentally incorrect bit Illegal migrants CANNOT VOTE!!! You know when we have an election here… and you go in, and they mark you off against the electoral roll.. and then you vote. What do you think happens in the states? Sometimes I think “you just can’t help stupid”… I was hoping you thought “oh that’s bad! But it’s 175… maybe people will let it slide and my ignorance will fall off page 1 without noticing “ But I suppose… embrace the stupid? | |||
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"Khans best achievement has been keeping the tories out surely?
An achievement for himself, of course. Not much for the women, for example. The number of sexual offences went up from 17.5K when he took over, to over 26K last year "The number of offences haven't 'gone up', there's been a marked increase Nationally in the reporting of such crimes plus the 2023 Online safety act played a large part in the numbers being reported.. The numbers sadly have always been higher than what was being reported, changes in culture in police attitudes etc has been part of that too.. | |||
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"Khans best achievement has been keeping the tories out surely?
An achievement for himself, of course. Not much for the women, for example. The number of sexual offences went up from 17.5K when he took over, to over 26K last year
The number of offences haven't 'gone up', there's been a marked increase Nationally in the reporting of such crimes plus the 2023 Online safety act played a large part in the numbers being reported..
The numbers sadly have always been higher than what was being reported, changes in culture in police attitudes etc has been part of that too..
"Yeah that's the excuse left wingers use without any evidence to excuse these numbers. | |||
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" In most of these cities illegal migrants make up a large part of the Democrats voting and funding base. Look at Minneapolis for a perfect example. I am so glad you made the same claim here that you made in post 175 of the Renee good murder/homicide thread.. and I have been stewing for 3 days thinking should I let someone do fundamentally wrong slide or do I start a new thread just to answer it So let’s start with the fundamentally incorrect bit Illegal migrants CANNOT VOTE!!! You know when we have an election here… and you go in, and they mark you off against the electoral roll.. and then you vote. What do you think happens in the states? Sometimes I think “you just can’t help stupid”… I was hoping you thought “oh that’s bad! But it’s 175… maybe people will let it slide and my ignorance will fall off page 1 without noticing “ But I suppose… embrace the stupid? " Some news articles I have found - "Pennsylvania finds 544 possibly illegal ballots since 2000" There are many articles about Ohio, stating "It's rare". In spite of what you said, these things do happen. The scale of it happening is what's up for debate. Definitely not worth calling someone "stupid" over this. It's not like you have just been nominated for the Nobel. | |||
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" In most of these cities illegal migrants make up a large part of the Democrats voting and funding base. Look at Minneapolis for a perfect example. I am so glad you made the same claim here that you made in post 175 of the Renee good murder/homicide thread.. and I have been stewing for 3 days thinking should I let someone do fundamentally wrong slide or do I start a new thread just to answer it So let’s start with the fundamentally incorrect bit Illegal migrants CANNOT VOTE!!! You know when we have an election here… and you go in, and they mark you off against the electoral roll.. and then you vote. What do you think happens in the states? Sometimes I think “you just can’t help stupid”… I was hoping you thought “oh that’s bad! But it’s 175… maybe people will let it slide and my ignorance will fall off page 1 without noticing “ But I suppose… embrace the stupid? Some news articles I have found - "Pennsylvania finds 544 possibly illegal ballots since 2000" There are many articles about Ohio, stating "It's rare". In spite of what you said, these things do happen. The scale of it happening is what's up for debate. Definitely not worth calling someone "stupid" over this. It's not like you have just been nominated for the Nobel." And in comes lost for the save!…. 
So let’s see what the mighty heritage foundation says…
The Heritage Foundation, a conservative think tank, publishes an incomplete database of voter fraud cases brought by prosecutors since 1979. As of November 2023, there were 1,465 proven cases of voter fraud listed in 44 years, an average of 33 cases per year. This represents a tiny fraction of total votes. In Texas, for example, Heritage found 103 cases of confirmed voter fraud between 2005 and 2022, in a period where 107 million ballots were cast, or 0.000096% of all ballots cast.Heritage has stated that the database is only a "sampling" and not comprehensive.
Studies of voter rolls have found very few noncitizen voters. As of July 2024, the Heritage Foundation database includes only 24 noncitizen voting cases from between 2003 and 2023. In an audit of the 2016 elections, the North Carolina State Board of Elections found that 41 out of 4.8 million total votes were by noncitizens, and between 2017 and 2024, only three cases were referred for prosecution. In 2018, CNN reported that in the past three years, Kansas Secretary of State Kris Kobach had convicted three noncitizens of voting out of 1.8 million voters.A Brennan Center for Justice study of 2016 data from 42 jurisdictions found an estimated 30 incidents of suspected noncitizen voting out of 23.5 million votes cast (or .0001% of votes). A review in Georgia found that no potential noncitizens had been allowed to register to vote between 1997 and 2022.In September 2024, an audit in Oregon found that more than 1,200 possible noncitizens had been added to the state's voter rolls by mistake; the issue was quickly fixed and no more than 5 noncitizens had cast ballots.
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" In most of these cities illegal migrants make up a large part of the Democrats voting and funding base. Look at Minneapolis for a perfect example. I am so glad you made the same claim here that you made in post 175 of the Renee good murder/homicide thread.. and I have been stewing for 3 days thinking should I let someone do fundamentally wrong slide or do I start a new thread just to answer it So let’s start with the fundamentally incorrect bit Illegal migrants CANNOT VOTE!!! You know when we have an election here… and you go in, and they mark you off against the electoral roll.. and then you vote. What do you think happens in the states? Sometimes I think “you just can’t help stupid”… I was hoping you thought “oh that’s bad! But it’s 175… maybe people will let it slide and my ignorance will fall off page 1 without noticing “ But I suppose… embrace the stupid? Some news articles I have found - "Pennsylvania finds 544 possibly illegal ballots since 2000" There are many articles about Ohio, stating "It's rare". In spite of what you said, these things do happen. The scale of it happening is what's up for debate. Definitely not worth calling someone "stupid" over this. It's not like you have just been nominated for the Nobel. And in comes lost for the save!….
So let’s see what the mighty heritage foundation says…
The Heritage Foundation, a conservative think tank, publishes an incomplete database of voter fraud cases brought by prosecutors since 1979. As of November 2023, there were 1,465 proven cases of voter fraud listed in 44 years, an average of 33 cases per year. This represents a tiny fraction of total votes. In Texas, for example, Heritage found 103 cases of confirmed voter fraud between 2005 and 2022, in a period where 107 million ballots were cast, or 0.000096% of all ballots cast.Heritage has stated that the database is only a "sampling" and not comprehensive.
Studies of voter rolls have found very few noncitizen voters. As of July 2024, the Heritage Foundation database includes only 24 noncitizen voting cases from between 2003 and 2023. In an audit of the 2016 elections, the North Carolina State Board of Elections found that 41 out of 4.8 million total votes were by noncitizens, and between 2017 and 2024, only three cases were referred for prosecution. In 2018, CNN reported that in the past three years, Kansas Secretary of State Kris Kobach had convicted three noncitizens of voting out of 1.8 million voters.A Brennan Center for Justice study of 2016 data from 42 jurisdictions found an estimated 30 incidents of suspected noncitizen voting out of 23.5 million votes cast (or .0001% of votes). A review in Georgia found that no potential noncitizens had been allowed to register to vote between 1997 and 2022.In September 2024, an audit in Oregon found that more than 1,200 possible noncitizens had been added to the state's voter rolls by mistake; the issue was quickly fixed and no more than 5 noncitizens had cast ballots.
"And with that, you have moved the goal post from "Illegal migrants CANNOT VOTE!!!" to "Yeah some have done it. But the numbers aren't that big" | |||
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" In most of these cities illegal migrants make up a large part of the Democrats voting and funding base. Look at Minneapolis for a perfect example. I am so glad you made the same claim here that you made in post 175 of the Renee good murder/homicide thread.. and I have been stewing for 3 days thinking should I let someone do fundamentally wrong slide or do I start a new thread just to answer it So let’s start with the fundamentally incorrect bit Illegal migrants CANNOT VOTE!!! You know when we have an election here… and you go in, and they mark you off against the electoral roll.. and then you vote. What do you think happens in the states? Sometimes I think “you just can’t help stupid”… I was hoping you thought “oh that’s bad! But it’s 175… maybe people will let it slide and my ignorance will fall off page 1 without noticing “ But I suppose… embrace the stupid? Some news articles I have found - "Pennsylvania finds 544 possibly illegal ballots since 2000" There are many articles about Ohio, stating "It's rare". In spite of what you said, these things do happen. The scale of it happening is what's up for debate. Definitely not worth calling someone "stupid" over this. It's not like you have just been nominated for the Nobel. And in comes lost for the save!….
So let’s see what the mighty heritage foundation says…
The Heritage Foundation, a conservative think tank, publishes an incomplete database of voter fraud cases brought by prosecutors since 1979. As of November 2023, there were 1,465 proven cases of voter fraud listed in 44 years, an average of 33 cases per year. This represents a tiny fraction of total votes. In Texas, for example, Heritage found 103 cases of confirmed voter fraud between 2005 and 2022, in a period where 107 million ballots were cast, or 0.000096% of all ballots cast.Heritage has stated that the database is only a "sampling" and not comprehensive.
Studies of voter rolls have found very few noncitizen voters. As of July 2024, the Heritage Foundation database includes only 24 noncitizen voting cases from between 2003 and 2023. In an audit of the 2016 elections, the North Carolina State Board of Elections found that 41 out of 4.8 million total votes were by noncitizens, and between 2017 and 2024, only three cases were referred for prosecution. In 2018, CNN reported that in the past three years, Kansas Secretary of State Kris Kobach had convicted three noncitizens of voting out of 1.8 million voters.A Brennan Center for Justice study of 2016 data from 42 jurisdictions found an estimated 30 incidents of suspected noncitizen voting out of 23.5 million votes cast (or .0001% of votes). A review in Georgia found that no potential noncitizens had been allowed to register to vote between 1997 and 2022.In September 2024, an audit in Oregon found that more than 1,200 possible noncitizens had been added to the state's voter rolls by mistake; the issue was quickly fixed and no more than 5 noncitizens had cast ballots.
And with that, you have moved the goal post from "Illegal migrants CANNOT VOTE!!!" to "Yeah some have done it. But the numbers aren't that big""Jesus Christ!! That’s your takeaway from this… in which case there is no hope for you either… you are not worth arguing with if your position is so pedantic that for example 0.000000000001% isn’t zero so therefore it happens! That’s not a good faith conversation…. You argue about everything and yet never have a position on anything and never answer a question straight | |||
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" Sometimes I think “you just can’t help stupid”… I was hoping you thought “oh that’s bad! But it’s 175… maybe people will let it slide and my ignorance will fall off page 1 without noticing “ But I suppose… embrace the stupid? Some news articles I have found - "Pennsylvania finds 544 possibly illegal ballots since 2000" There are many articles about Ohio, stating "It's rare". In spite of what you said, these things do happen. The scale of it happening is what's up for debate. Definitely not worth calling someone "stupid" over this. It's not like you have just been nominated for the Nobel. And in comes lost for the save!….
So let’s see what the mighty heritage foundation says…
The Heritage Foundation, a conservative think tank, publishes an incomplete database of voter fraud cases brought by prosecutors since 1979. As of November 2023, there were 1,465 proven cases of voter fraud listed in 44 years, an average of 33 cases per year. This represents a tiny fraction of total votes. In Texas, for example, Heritage found 103 cases of confirmed voter fraud between 2005 and 2022, in a period where 107 million ballots were cast, or 0.000096% of all ballots cast.Heritage has stated that the database is only a "sampling" and not comprehensive.
Studies of voter rolls have found very few noncitizen voters. As of July 2024, the Heritage Foundation database includes only 24 noncitizen voting cases from between 2003 and 2023. In an audit of the 2016 elections, the North Carolina State Board of Elections found that 41 out of 4.8 million total votes were by noncitizens, and between 2017 and 2024, only three cases were referred for prosecution. In 2018, CNN reported that in the past three years, Kansas Secretary of State Kris Kobach had convicted three noncitizens of voting out of 1.8 million voters.A Brennan Center for Justice study of 2016 data from 42 jurisdictions found an estimated 30 incidents of suspected noncitizen voting out of 23.5 million votes cast (or .0001% of votes). A review in Georgia found that no potential noncitizens had been allowed to register to vote between 1997 and 2022.In September 2024, an audit in Oregon found that more than 1,200 possible noncitizens had been added to the state's voter rolls by mistake; the issue was quickly fixed and no more than 5 noncitizens had cast ballots.
And with that, you have moved the goal post from "Illegal migrants CANNOT VOTE!!!" to "Yeah some have done it. But the numbers aren't that big"
Jesus Christ!! That’s your takeaway from this… in which case there is no hope for you either… you are not worth arguing with if your position is so pedantic that for example 0.000000000001% isn’t zero so therefore it happens!
That’s not a good faith conversation…. You argue about everything and yet never have a position on anything and never answer a question straight "You pretended like the process is bullet proof and went on to call another poster stupid. It's clear that the process isn't all that you claimed about. As for the numbers, these are the known frauds. It's really hard to measure the unknown frauds in these cases. So there will always be allegations about it. Mandating citizenship proofs would go a long way in building trust towards the election results. | |||
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" In most of these cities illegal migrants make up a large part of the Democrats voting and funding base. Look at Minneapolis for a perfect example. I am so glad you made the same claim here that you made in post 175 of the Renee good murder/homicide thread.. and I have been stewing for 3 days thinking should I let someone do fundamentally wrong slide or do I start a new thread just to answer it So let’s start with the fundamentally incorrect bit Illegal migrants CANNOT VOTE!!! You know when we have an election here… and you go in, and they mark you off against the electoral roll.. and then you vote. What do you think happens in the states? Sometimes I think “you just can’t help stupid”… I was hoping you thought “oh that’s bad! But it’s 175… maybe people will let it slide and my ignorance will fall off page 1 without noticing “ But I suppose… embrace the stupid? " Fabio there are multiple threads where you've made bold claims which soon proved to be entirely false, for example endorsing the discredited police claims around the ban on Tel Avi fans or your claim that Renee Good was not obstructing ICE agents and was an accidental bystander. So let's disagree politely and lose the remarks about ignorance and stupidity, especially when directed at posters with a much better record of accuracy than yourself ! And yes illegal migrants do vote in the US in their thousands due to electoral fraud and fake ballots. | |||
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"And yes illegal migrants do vote in the US in their thousands due to electoral fraud and fake ballots. " If you keep saying stupid things, people will keep calling you out on it If you then want to double down and keep repeating it…. People will keep calling you out on it Trump campaign claimed on 65 different occasions in various states voter fraud.. they won zero cases Fox News claimed voting fraud… cost them almost 900 million dollars Newsmax and OAN…. Only a couple of hundred million Rudy guilani and Mike lindell… bankrupted them So you keep making them claims…..no one else is now | |||
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"And yes illegal migrants do vote in the US in their thousands due to electoral fraud and fake ballots. If you keep saying stupid things, people will keep calling you out on it If you then want to double down and keep repeating it…. People will keep calling you out on it Trump campaign claimed on 65 different occasions in various states voter fraud.. they won zero cases Fox News claimed voting fraud… cost them almost 900 million dollars Newsmax and OAN…. Only a couple of hundred million Rudy guilani and Mike lindell… bankrupted them So you keep making them claims…..no one else is now "Cooilo ! I imagine like most of your confident assertions there will be a wealth of evidence along any minute to kick them into touch ! | |||
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" That's not the original point NotMe was making - "what has gone wrong with upholding law and order in some Democratic states and cities to the point federal law enforcement is needed to do the job" Mayors of these cities have more power and responsibilities when it comes to establishing law and order there than the governors. To which my point is 2 fold…. ( you’ll notice I am about to actually answer a straight question.. you might actually want to try it sometime … )
1) it’s not just democratic states.. it’s republican ones as well, and the trump administration is not applying the same standard, because if it was those cities in those states where the governor has powers over and above those of the mayors …
governor have the powers to call up their states national guard over and above the objections of a mayor
For example, Minnesota governor Tim Walz did this after Renee good was murdered
2) the mayors of every single one of those cities (and countless others) have said every single time “we have enough police in our cities and they have the situation in hand to where we do not need extra assistance from federal agencies “
Do you know how many cities in the United States have actually invited the invitation of extra federal forces … the answer is zero! …. Both democratic and republican mayors… zero!
The question still hasn't been answered, the question had the word "some" in it, not all.
"what has gone wrong with upholding law and order in "some" Democratic states and cities to the point federal law enforcement is needed to do the job".
There are more issues in "some" Democratic states and cities in upholding the law of the land, and it is having a detrimental impact when federal enforcement needs to step in, why is that?
So which Democratic states are you talking about when you say “some”? Name them ! Stop being general
If the answer is Minnesota… to which the initial post is about.. then like I said, Minnesota governor Tim Walz did call up the national guard in the wake of the murder (or homicide if you want to be pedantic as some like to be around here) of Renee Good by ICE agents
But other than that… not one mayor in the United States… democrat or republican.. has openly invited the Trump administration of extra federal enforcement agents
Every single one has said their own police department has enough resources in place to deal with the current situation even when offered
California, Los Angeles, San Francisco, Illinois, Chicago
Minnesota, Minneapolis, St Paul
Oregon, Portland
Washington, Seattle
New York, NYC
Going back to 2020 Seattle rioters created CHAZ, which was declared a self autonomous zone. Police withdraw under direction, murders were taking place inside the area. The mayor approved the police being withdrawn and called it the summer of love! Interestingly the Governor did not approve this...
I obviously needed to google these so I wasn't getting it wrong, and these are the basis for my question.
What makes these areas so unmanageable when it comes to law enforcement?
Oooh… so that is the game.. gotcha.. the fox/right wing only crime happens in those cities game
So let’s play it
So for all of those cities, the top cop, be that the commissioner of police in New York Jessica Tisch, or the chief of police in LA (Jim mcdougal) in San Francisco (Derrick Lew) in Chicago (Larry Snelling) and in Portland (Bob day) and in Seattle (Shon Barnes) and in Minneapolis (Brian o’hara) have all said very publicly that they do NOT need any extra federal security for their cities and have enough of their own police men and women to take care of any incidents
So I assume that the mayor’s of those cities take advice from their heads of police
And then I assume that the governors of those states take advice from mayors of those cities
So their governors Kathy hochul in New York, Gavin newsome in California, J.B Prizker in Illinois, bob ferguson in Washington, Tina Kotek of Oregon and Tim Walz of Minnesota have not felt the need to call upon the resources of their states national guard (Walz finally sent his in as a countermeasure to quell discomfort from locals for DHS flooding his state with ICE agents after the murder/homicide of Renee good)
Trump tried to, yet again, overstep his authority by trying to overrule the governor’s and call up the national guard in California, Oregon and Illinois and federalise them.. and got told that was illegal by the courts
He then tried to do an end around and got governors in “red states” to volunteer to send their national guard troops… and got told that was illegal
And yet… and we go back full circle to the original answer… he has not done the same in any red state, and no red state governor has asked for help!
So who is likely to know about the local situation on the ground and whether they would need assistance …. The local police… or the federal government?
That isn’t what I’m asking, I’m asking what has gone wrong in those cities and states that illegal activities aren’t being closed down and if there is a move to tackle the problems, riots are almost a certainty. It’s the same places the same push back, comparing the attitudes to republican areas the stats on using ICE and tackling illegal immigration are reversed in favour.
There are opposing views based on state, so how is this ever going to be resolved, let crime go unchecked or tackle it, it can’t be both.
But you are pushing a narrative that crime and violence in those cities are out of control.. the problem is that if you use both DHS and DOJ own statistics, a) its nowhere near true… and b) there are a lot of cities that are in a worse position
None of the cities you mentioned are in the top 20 of cities per capita for murder or violent crime… and as I said earlier, because it seems to be going in one ear and out the other, there are cities in red states with red governors who could call up the national guard… or trump could offer to send in federal assistance if he was applying the same standard.. which he isn’t… it’s only blue states that have issues
Which could be the reason why trump tried to cancel energy building contracts in blue states only… and yesterday that got blocked by the courts yesterday as being illegal
And trump tried to take away childcare spending specifically away from blue states… and again yesterday that got blocked by the courts yesterday as being illegal….
Notice a pattern on how trump deals with blue states and those who he deems to have done him wrong…"You are concentrating on me pushing a narrative when I'm not. The point being swerved or missed? Is the violence and attacks on law enforcement officers who are doing a job in the cities and states I mentioned. Are there any Republican states or cities that have replicated taking to the streets to fight for illegal immigrants and fraud to go unpunished? Why is this happening in the mentioned areas, what is their motivation? | |||
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" That's not the original point NotMe was making - "what has gone wrong with upholding law and order in some Democratic states and cities to the point federal law enforcement is needed to do the job" Mayors of these cities have more power and responsibilities when it comes to establishing law and order there than the governors. To which my point is 2 fold…. ( you’ll notice I am about to actually answer a straight question.. you might actually want to try it sometime … )
1) it’s not just democratic states.. it’s republican ones as well, and the trump administration is not applying the same standard, because if it was those cities in those states where the governor has powers over and above those of the mayors …
governor have the powers to call up their states national guard over and above the objections of a mayor
For example, Minnesota governor Tim Walz did this after Renee good was murdered
2) the mayors of every single one of those cities (and countless others) have said every single time “we have enough police in our cities and they have the situation in hand to where we do not need extra assistance from federal agencies “
Do you know how many cities in the United States have actually invited the invitation of extra federal forces … the answer is zero! …. Both democratic and republican mayors… zero!
The question still hasn't been answered, the question had the word "some" in it, not all.
"what has gone wrong with upholding law and order in "some" Democratic states and cities to the point federal law enforcement is needed to do the job".
There are more issues in "some" Democratic states and cities in upholding the law of the land, and it is having a detrimental impact when federal enforcement needs to step in, why is that? "Your question is loaded, 'the point federal law enforcement is needed to do the job"' Who is saying that they NEED to be called in? It's obviously your intention that they should be - so potentially it's worth considering asking different questions | |||
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| |||
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" That's not the original point NotMe was making - "what has gone wrong with upholding law and order in some Democratic states and cities to the point federal law enforcement is needed to do the job" Mayors of these cities have more power and responsibilities when it comes to establishing law and order there than the governors. To which my point is 2 fold…. ( you’ll notice I am about to actually answer a straight question.. you might actually want to try it sometime … )
1) it’s not just democratic states.. it’s republican ones as well, and the trump administration is not applying the same standard, because if it was those cities in those states where the governor has powers over and above those of the mayors …
governor have the powers to call up their states national guard over and above the objections of a mayor
For example, Minnesota governor Tim Walz did this after Renee good was murdered
2) the mayors of every single one of those cities (and countless others) have said every single time “we have enough police in our cities and they have the situation in hand to where we do not need extra assistance from federal agencies “
Do you know how many cities in the United States have actually invited the invitation of extra federal forces … the answer is zero! …. Both democratic and republican mayors… zero!
The question still hasn't been answered, the question had the word "some" in it, not all.
"what has gone wrong with upholding law and order in "some" Democratic states and cities to the point federal law enforcement is needed to do the job".
There are more issues in "some" Democratic states and cities in upholding the law of the land, and it is having a detrimental impact when federal enforcement needs to step in, why is that?
Your question is loaded, 'the point federal law enforcement is needed to do the job"'
Who is saying that they NEED to be called in? It's obviously your intention that they should be - so potentially it's worth considering asking different questions "I’m struggling to follow your response, are you telling me that questions I’m asking need to stop? To be clear there is a difference between the way republican areas and democratic areas are responding and being responded to by federal agents and the people who live there. That is my question what is the difference and why is it different. The question isn’t loaded it is clear, and further on you will see I mention how is that difference going to be resolved, because there is no middle ground. | |||
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" That's not the original point NotMe was making - "what has gone wrong with upholding law and order in some Democratic states and cities to the point federal law enforcement is needed to do the job" Mayors of these cities have more power and responsibilities when it comes to establishing law and order there than the governors. To which my point is 2 fold…. ( you’ll notice I am about to actually answer a straight question.. you might actually want to try it sometime … )
1) it’s not just democratic states.. it’s republican ones as well, and the trump administration is not applying the same standard, because if it was those cities in those states where the governor has powers over and above those of the mayors …
governor have the powers to call up their states national guard over and above the objections of a mayor
For example, Minnesota governor Tim Walz did this after Renee good was murdered
2) the mayors of every single one of those cities (and countless others) have said every single time “we have enough police in our cities and they have the situation in hand to where we do not need extra assistance from federal agencies “
Do you know how many cities in the United States have actually invited the invitation of extra federal forces … the answer is zero! …. Both democratic and republican mayors… zero!
The question still hasn't been answered, the question had the word "some" in it, not all.
"what has gone wrong with upholding law and order in "some" Democratic states and cities to the point federal law enforcement is needed to do the job".
There are more issues in "some" Democratic states and cities in upholding the law of the land, and it is having a detrimental impact when federal enforcement needs to step in, why is that?
Your question is loaded, 'the point federal law enforcement is needed to do the job"'
Who is saying that they NEED to be called in? It's obviously your intention that they should be - so potentially it's worth considering asking different questions
I’m struggling to follow your response, are you telling me that questions I’m asking need to stop? To be clear there is a difference between the way republican areas and democratic areas are responding and being responded to by federal agents and the people who live there. That is my question what is the difference and why is it different. The question isn’t loaded it is clear, and further on you will see I mention how is that difference going to be resolved, because there is no middle ground. "Actually… there isn’t a difference See, the problem is that you think there is a difference, the answer is wherever DHS and ICE have gone in and made these flashy splashes there have been issues and tons of of locals have complained You picked the places that sound flashy but other places have been affected There have been issues in Charlotte and Raleigh, North Carolina…. There have been issues in Miami, Florida… there have been issues in Denver, Colorado… there have been issues in Sacramento, California there are currently issues in both Memphis and New Orleans from locals objecting Issues up in both Maine and Vermont…. Go and look | |||
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" That's not the original point NotMe was making - "what has gone wrong with upholding law and order in some Democratic states and cities to the point federal law enforcement is needed to do the job" Mayors of these cities have more power and responsibilities when it comes to establishing law and order there than the governors. To which my point is 2 fold…. ( you’ll notice I am about to actually answer a straight question.. you might actually want to try it sometime … )
1) it’s not just democratic states.. it’s republican ones as well, and the trump administration is not applying the same standard, because if it was those cities in those states where the governor has powers over and above those of the mayors …
governor have the powers to call up their states national guard over and above the objections of a mayor
For example, Minnesota governor Tim Walz did this after Renee good was murdered
2) the mayors of every single one of those cities (and countless others) have said every single time “we have enough police in our cities and they have the situation in hand to where we do not need extra assistance from federal agencies “
Do you know how many cities in the United States have actually invited the invitation of extra federal forces … the answer is zero! …. Both democratic and republican mayors… zero!
The question still hasn't been answered, the question had the word "some" in it, not all.
"what has gone wrong with upholding law and order in "some" Democratic states and cities to the point federal law enforcement is needed to do the job".
There are more issues in "some" Democratic states and cities in upholding the law of the land, and it is having a detrimental impact when federal enforcement needs to step in, why is that?
Your question is loaded, 'the point federal law enforcement is needed to do the job"'
Who is saying that they NEED to be called in? It's obviously your intention that they should be - so potentially it's worth considering asking different questions
I’m struggling to follow your response, are you telling me that questions I’m asking need to stop? To be clear there is a difference between the way republican areas and democratic areas are responding and being responded to by federal agents and the people who live there. That is my question what is the difference and why is it different. The question isn’t loaded it is clear, and further on you will see I mention how is that difference going to be resolved, because there is no middle ground.
Actually… there isn’t a difference
See, the problem is that you think there is a difference, the answer is wherever DHS and ICE have gone in and made these flashy splashes there have been issues and tons of
of locals have complained
You picked the places that sound flashy but other places have been affected
There have been issues in Charlotte and Raleigh, North Carolina…. There have been issues in Miami, Florida… there have been issues in Denver, Colorado… there have been issues in Sacramento, California there are currently issues in both Memphis and New Orleans from locals objecting
Issues up in both Maine and Vermont….
Go and look "If the issue is across both republican and democrat states and cities why is it world news in the democratic states? Is it the media pumping Trump / democrat differences? It looks one sided from my view, and I will look at the others you mentioned. | |||
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" That's not the original point NotMe was making - "what has gone wrong with upholding law and order in some Democratic states and cities to the point federal law enforcement is needed to do the job" Mayors of these cities have more power and responsibilities when it comes to establishing law and order there than the governors. To which my point is 2 fold…. ( you’ll notice I am about to actually answer a straight question.. you might actually want to try it sometime … )
1) it’s not just democratic states.. it’s republican ones as well, and the trump administration is not applying the same standard, because if it was those cities in those states where the governor has powers over and above those of the mayors …
governor have the powers to call up their states national guard over and above the objections of a mayor
For example, Minnesota governor Tim Walz did this after Renee good was murdered
2) the mayors of every single one of those cities (and countless others) have said every single time “we have enough police in our cities and they have the situation in hand to where we do not need extra assistance from federal agencies “
Do you know how many cities in the United States have actually invited the invitation of extra federal forces … the answer is zero! …. Both democratic and republican mayors… zero!
The question still hasn't been answered, the question had the word "some" in it, not all.
"what has gone wrong with upholding law and order in "some" Democratic states and cities to the point federal law enforcement is needed to do the job".
There are more issues in "some" Democratic states and cities in upholding the law of the land, and it is having a detrimental impact when federal enforcement needs to step in, why is that?
Your question is loaded, 'the point federal law enforcement is needed to do the job"'
Who is saying that they NEED to be called in? It's obviously your intention that they should be - so potentially it's worth considering asking different questions
I’m struggling to follow your response, are you telling me that questions I’m asking need to stop? To be clear there is a difference between the way republican areas and democratic areas are responding and being responded to by federal agents and the people who live there. That is my question what is the difference and why is it different. The question isn’t loaded it is clear, and further on you will see I mention how is that difference going to be resolved, because there is no middle ground.
Actually… there isn’t a difference
See, the problem is that you think there is a difference, the answer is wherever DHS and ICE have gone in and made these flashy splashes there have been issues and tons of
of locals have complained
You picked the places that sound flashy but other places have been affected
There have been issues in Charlotte and Raleigh, North Carolina…. There have been issues in Miami, Florida… there have been issues in Denver, Colorado… there have been issues in Sacramento, California there are currently issues in both Memphis and New Orleans from locals objecting
Issues up in both Maine and Vermont….
Go and look
If the issue is across both republican and democrat states and cities why is it world news in the democratic states? Is it the media pumping Trump / democrat differences? It looks one sided from my view, and I will look at the others you mentioned. "I would argue it’s where the flood of ICE operations are happening at any given time For example LA was the first, Minneapolis just happens to be the latest But if you check local news stations (ABC/NBC/CBS affiliates) or just put in ICE on YouTube you will see loads of local incidents where ICE have been involved in “roughhousing incidents” of civilians…. You know it’s bad when local news stations accompany the reports by reading out your rights as citizens if you see an incident occurring… | |||
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" That's not the original point NotMe was making - "what has gone wrong with upholding law and order in some Democratic states and cities to the point federal law enforcement is needed to do the job" Mayors of these cities have more power and responsibilities when it comes to establishing law and order there than the governors. To which my point is 2 fold…. ( you’ll notice I am about to actually answer a straight question.. you might actually want to try it sometime … )
1) it’s not just democratic states.. it’s republican ones as well, and the trump administration is not applying the same standard, because if it was those cities in those states where the governor has powers over and above those of the mayors …
governor have the powers to call up their states national guard over and above the objections of a mayor
For example, Minnesota governor Tim Walz did this after Renee good was murdered
2) the mayors of every single one of those cities (and countless others) have said every single time “we have enough police in our cities and they have the situation in hand to where we do not need extra assistance from federal agencies “
Do you know how many cities in the United States have actually invited the invitation of extra federal forces … the answer is zero! …. Both democratic and republican mayors… zero!
The question still hasn't been answered, the question had the word "some" in it, not all.
"what has gone wrong with upholding law and order in "some" Democratic states and cities to the point federal law enforcement is needed to do the job".
There are more issues in "some" Democratic states and cities in upholding the law of the land, and it is having a detrimental impact when federal enforcement needs to step in, why is that?
Your question is loaded, 'the point federal law enforcement is needed to do the job"'
Who is saying that they NEED to be called in? It's obviously your intention that they should be - so potentially it's worth considering asking different questions
I’m struggling to follow your response, are you telling me that questions I’m asking need to stop? To be clear there is a difference between the way republican areas and democratic areas are responding and being responded to by federal agents and the people who live there. That is my question what is the difference and why is it different. The question isn’t loaded it is clear, and further on you will see I mention how is that difference going to be resolved, because there is no middle ground.
Actually… there isn’t a difference
See, the problem is that you think there is a difference, the answer is wherever DHS and ICE have gone in and made these flashy splashes there have been issues and tons of
of locals have complained
You picked the places that sound flashy but other places have been affected
There have been issues in Charlotte and Raleigh, North Carolina…. There have been issues in Miami, Florida… there have been issues in Denver, Colorado… there have been issues in Sacramento, California there are currently issues in both Memphis and New Orleans from locals objecting
Issues up in both Maine and Vermont….
Go and look
If the issue is across both republican and democrat states and cities why is it world news in the democratic states? Is it the media pumping Trump / democrat differences? It looks one sided from my view, and I will look at the others you mentioned.
I would argue it’s where the flood of ICE operations are happening at any given time
For example LA was the first, Minneapolis just happens to be the latest
But if you check local news stations (ABC/NBC/CBS affiliates) or just put in ICE on YouTube you will see loads of local incidents where ICE have been involved in “roughhousing incidents” of civilians….
You know it’s bad when local news stations accompany the reports by reading out your rights as citizens if you see an incident occurring…"The majority support ICE You are in the minority Get illegals out of usa Get illegals out of UK too | |||
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" That's not the original point NotMe was making - "what has gone wrong with upholding law and order in some Democratic states and cities to the point federal law enforcement is needed to do the job" Mayors of these cities have more power and responsibilities when it comes to establishing law and order there than the governors. To which my point is 2 fold…. ( you’ll notice I am about to actually answer a straight question.. you might actually want to try it sometime … )
1) it’s not just democratic states.. it’s republican ones as well, and the trump administration is not applying the same standard, because if it was those cities in those states where the governor has powers over and above those of the mayors …
governor have the powers to call up their states national guard over and above the objections of a mayor
For example, Minnesota governor Tim Walz did this after Renee good was murdered
2) the mayors of every single one of those cities (and countless others) have said every single time “we have enough police in our cities and they have the situation in hand to where we do not need extra assistance from federal agencies “
Do you know how many cities in the United States have actually invited the invitation of extra federal forces … the answer is zero! …. Both democratic and republican mayors… zero!
The question still hasn't been answered, the question had the word "some" in it, not all.
"what has gone wrong with upholding law and order in "some" Democratic states and cities to the point federal law enforcement is needed to do the job".
There are more issues in "some" Democratic states and cities in upholding the law of the land, and it is having a detrimental impact when federal enforcement needs to step in, why is that?
Your question is loaded, 'the point federal law enforcement is needed to do the job"'
Who is saying that they NEED to be called in? It's obviously your intention that they should be - so potentially it's worth considering asking different questions
I’m struggling to follow your response, are you telling me that questions I’m asking need to stop? To be clear there is a difference between the way republican areas and democratic areas are responding and being responded to by federal agents and the people who live there. That is my question what is the difference and why is it different. The question isn’t loaded it is clear, and further on you will see I mention how is that difference going to be resolved, because there is no middle ground.
Actually… there isn’t a difference
See, the problem is that you think there is a difference, the answer is wherever DHS and ICE have gone in and made these flashy splashes there have been issues and tons of
of locals have complained
You picked the places that sound flashy but other places have been affected
There have been issues in Charlotte and Raleigh, North Carolina…. There have been issues in Miami, Florida… there have been issues in Denver, Colorado… there have been issues in Sacramento, California there are currently issues in both Memphis and New Orleans from locals objecting
Issues up in both Maine and Vermont….
Go and look
If the issue is across both republican and democrat states and cities why is it world news in the democratic states? Is it the media pumping Trump / democrat differences? It looks one sided from my view, and I will look at the others you mentioned.
I would argue it’s where the flood of ICE operations are happening at any given time
For example LA was the first, Minneapolis just happens to be the latest
But if you check local news stations (ABC/NBC/CBS affiliates) or just put in ICE on YouTube you will see loads of local incidents where ICE have been involved in “roughhousing incidents” of civilians….
You know it’s bad when local news stations accompany the reports by reading out your rights as citizens if you see an incident occurring…
The majority support ICE
You are in the minority
Get illegals out of usa
Get illegals out of UK too"Not according to YouGov poll ,where 40% view ICE Favourably 52% don't , , unless you have other figures showing more support for ICE | |||
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" That's not the original point NotMe was making - "what has gone wrong with upholding law and order in some Democratic states and cities to the point federal law enforcement is needed to do the job" Mayors of these cities have more power and responsibilities when it comes to establishing law and order there than the governors. To which my point is 2 fold…. ( you’ll notice I am about to actually answer a straight question.. you might actually want to try it sometime … )
1) it’s not just democratic states.. it’s republican ones as well, and the trump administration is not applying the same standard, because if it was those cities in those states where the governor has powers over and above those of the mayors …
governor have the powers to call up their states national guard over and above the objections of a mayor
For example, Minnesota governor Tim Walz did this after Renee good was murdered
2) the mayors of every single one of those cities (and countless others) have said every single time “we have enough police in our cities and they have the situation in hand to where we do not need extra assistance from federal agencies “
Do you know how many cities in the United States have actually invited the invitation of extra federal forces … the answer is zero! …. Both democratic and republican mayors… zero!
The question still hasn't been answered, the question had the word "some" in it, not all.
"what has gone wrong with upholding law and order in "some" Democratic states and cities to the point federal law enforcement is needed to do the job".
There are more issues in "some" Democratic states and cities in upholding the law of the land, and it is having a detrimental impact when federal enforcement needs to step in, why is that?
Your question is loaded, 'the point federal law enforcement is needed to do the job"'
Who is saying that they NEED to be called in? It's obviously your intention that they should be - so potentially it's worth considering asking different questions
I’m struggling to follow your response, are you telling me that questions I’m asking need to stop? To be clear there is a difference between the way republican areas and democratic areas are responding and being responded to by federal agents and the people who live there. That is my question what is the difference and why is it different. The question isn’t loaded it is clear, and further on you will see I mention how is that difference going to be resolved, because there is no middle ground.
Actually… there isn’t a difference
See, the problem is that you think there is a difference, the answer is wherever DHS and ICE have gone in and made these flashy splashes there have been issues and tons of
of locals have complained
You picked the places that sound flashy but other places have been affected
There have been issues in Charlotte and Raleigh, North Carolina…. There have been issues in Miami, Florida… there have been issues in Denver, Colorado… there have been issues in Sacramento, California there are currently issues in both Memphis and New Orleans from locals objecting
Issues up in both Maine and Vermont….
Go and look
If the issue is across both republican and democrat states and cities why is it world news in the democratic states? Is it the media pumping Trump / democrat differences? It looks one sided from my view, and I will look at the others you mentioned.
I would argue it’s where the flood of ICE operations are happening at any given time
For example LA was the first, Minneapolis just happens to be the latest
But if you check local news stations (ABC/NBC/CBS affiliates) or just put in ICE on YouTube you will see loads of local incidents where ICE have been involved in “roughhousing incidents” of civilians….
You know it’s bad when local news stations accompany the reports by reading out your rights as citizens if you see an incident occurring…
The majority support ICE
You are in the minority
Get illegals out of usa
Get illegals out of UK too"Do you realise that social media is designed to make us believe that our opinions are shared by the majority? The people in charge of the algorithms want us divided and assured in our beliefs. We are being played. | |||
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" But if you check local news stations (ABC/NBC/CBS affiliates) or just put in ICE on YouTube you will see loads of local incidents where ICE have been involved in “roughhousing incidents” of civilians…. You know it’s bad when local news stations accompany the reports by reading out your rights as citizens if you see an incident occurring… The majority support ICE You are in the minority Get illegals out of usa Get illegals out of UK too Not according to YouGov poll ,where 40% view ICE Favourably 52% don't , , unless you have other figures showing more support for ICE " Actually the other question I found interesting from that poll is “do you think ICE is making cities more safe or less safe? 31% more safe…. 51% less safe Anyway can I put on my “tin foil hat “ for a potential conspiracy theory…. Bear with me… He is using Minnesota as a test case for something bigger If the polls are looking bad for the midterms in early November .. in October he is going to flood “certain” cities with ICE hoping for severe reactions… if he gets it he will at that point use the insurrection act to put military on the streets and try and cancel the midterms Tin foil hat off….. | |||
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" But if you check local news stations (ABC/NBC/CBS affiliates) or just put in ICE on YouTube you will see loads of local incidents where ICE have been involved in “roughhousing incidents” of civilians…. You know it’s bad when local news stations accompany the reports by reading out your rights as citizens if you see an incident occurring… The majority support ICE You are in the minority Get illegals out of usa Get illegals out of UK too Not according to YouGov poll ,where 40% view ICE Favourably 52% don't , , unless you have other figures showing more support for ICE Actually the other question I found interesting from that poll is “do you think ICE is making cities more safe or less safe? 31% more safe…. 51% less safe Anyway can I put on my “tin foil hat “ for a potential conspiracy theory…. Bear with me… He is using Minnesota as a test case for something bigger If the polls are looking bad for the midterms in early November .. in October he is going to flood “certain” cities with ICE hoping for severe reactions… if he gets it he will at that point use the insurrection act to put military on the streets and try and cancel the midterms Tin foil hat off….. "Surely you dont believe someone so decent and stable who has always shown respect to others in society and has gracefully accepted the (many) pitfalls life has presented him would think of such a thing..
Acting like a dictator, bypassing the constitution and Congress etc with Executive orders and threatened long standing allies with taking their sovereign territories..
Perish the thought..
| |||
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" That's not the original point NotMe was making - "what has gone wrong with upholding law and order in some Democratic states and cities to the point federal law enforcement is needed to do the job" Mayors of these cities have more power and responsibilities when it comes to establishing law and order there than the governors. To which my point is 2 fold…. ( you’ll notice I am about to actually answer a straight question.. you might actually want to try it sometime … )
1) it’s not just democratic states.. it’s republican ones as well, and the trump administration is not applying the same standard, because if it was those cities in those states where the governor has powers over and above those of the mayors …
governor have the powers to call up their states national guard over and above the objections of a mayor
For example, Minnesota governor Tim Walz did this after Renee good was murdered
2) the mayors of every single one of those cities (and countless others) have said every single time “we have enough police in our cities and they have the situation in hand to where we do not need extra assistance from federal agencies “
Do you know how many cities in the United States have actually invited the invitation of extra federal forces … the answer is zero! …. Both democratic and republican mayors… zero!
The question still hasn't been answered, the question had the word "some" in it, not all.
"what has gone wrong with upholding law and order in "some" Democratic states and cities to the point federal law enforcement is needed to do the job".
There are more issues in "some" Democratic states and cities in upholding the law of the land, and it is having a detrimental impact when federal enforcement needs to step in, why is that?
Your question is loaded, 'the point federal law enforcement is needed to do the job"'
Who is saying that they NEED to be called in? It's obviously your intention that they should be - so potentially it's worth considering asking different questions
I’m struggling to follow your response, are you telling me that questions I’m asking need to stop? To be clear there is a difference between the way republican areas and democratic areas are responding and being responded to by federal agents and the people who live there. That is my question what is the difference and why is it different. The question isn’t loaded it is clear, and further on you will see I mention how is that difference going to be resolved, because there is no middle ground.
Actually… there isn’t a difference
See, the problem is that you think there is a difference, the answer is wherever DHS and ICE have gone in and made these flashy splashes there have been issues and tons of
of locals have complained
You picked the places that sound flashy but other places have been affected
There have been issues in Charlotte and Raleigh, North Carolina…. There have been issues in Miami, Florida… there have been issues in Denver, Colorado… there have been issues in Sacramento, California there are currently issues in both Memphis and New Orleans from locals objecting
Issues up in both Maine and Vermont….
Go and look
If the issue is across both republican and democrat states and cities why is it world news in the democratic states? Is it the media pumping Trump / democrat differences? It looks one sided from my view, and I will look at the others you mentioned.
I would argue it’s where the flood of ICE operations are happening at any given time
For example LA was the first, Minneapolis just happens to be the latest
But if you check local news stations (ABC/NBC/CBS affiliates) or just put in ICE on YouTube you will see loads of local incidents where ICE have been involved in “roughhousing incidents” of civilians….
You know it’s bad when local news stations accompany the reports by reading out your rights as citizens if you see an incident occurring…
The majority support ICE
You are in the minority
Get illegals out of usa
Get illegals out of UK too"And the US citizens who have been harassed, injured and.even murdered by trumps hit squad ? You want them out too ? | |||
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" That's not the original point NotMe was making - "what has gone wrong with upholding law and order in some Democratic states and cities to the point federal law enforcement is needed to do the job" Mayors of these cities have more power and responsibilities when it comes to establishing law and order there than the governors. To which my point is 2 fold…. ( you’ll notice I am about to actually answer a straight question.. you might actually want to try it sometime … )
1) it’s not just democratic states.. it’s republican ones as well, and the trump administration is not applying the same standard, because if it was those cities in those states where the governor has powers over and above those of the mayors …
governor have the powers to call up their states national guard over and above the objections of a mayor
For example, Minnesota governor Tim Walz did this after Renee good was murdered
2) the mayors of every single one of those cities (and countless others) have said every single time “we have enough police in our cities and they have the situation in hand to where we do not need extra assistance from federal agencies “
Do you know how many cities in the United States have actually invited the invitation of extra federal forces … the answer is zero! …. Both democratic and republican mayors… zero!
The question still hasn't been answered, the question had the word "some" in it, not all.
"what has gone wrong with upholding law and order in "some" Democratic states and cities to the point federal law enforcement is needed to do the job".
There are more issues in "some" Democratic states and cities in upholding the law of the land, and it is having a detrimental impact when federal enforcement needs to step in, why is that?
Your question is loaded, 'the point federal law enforcement is needed to do the job"'
Who is saying that they NEED to be called in? It's obviously your intention that they should be - so potentially it's worth considering asking different questions
I’m struggling to follow your response, are you telling me that questions I’m asking need to stop? To be clear there is a difference between the way republican areas and democratic areas are responding and being responded to by federal agents and the people who live there. That is my question what is the difference and why is it different. The question isn’t loaded it is clear, and further on you will see I mention how is that difference going to be resolved, because there is no middle ground.
Actually… there isn’t a difference
See, the problem is that you think there is a difference, the answer is wherever DHS and ICE have gone in and made these flashy splashes there have been issues and tons of
of locals have complained
You picked the places that sound flashy but other places have been affected
There have been issues in Charlotte and Raleigh, North Carolina…. There have been issues in Miami, Florida… there have been issues in Denver, Colorado… there have been issues in Sacramento, California there are currently issues in both Memphis and New Orleans from locals objecting
Issues up in both Maine and Vermont….
Go and look
If the issue is across both republican and democrat states and cities why is it world news in the democratic states? Is it the media pumping Trump / democrat differences? It looks one sided from my view, and I will look at the others you mentioned.
I would argue it’s where the flood of ICE operations are happening at any given time
For example LA was the first, Minneapolis just happens to be the latest
But if you check local news stations (ABC/NBC/CBS affiliates) or just put in ICE on YouTube you will see loads of local incidents where ICE have been involved in “roughhousing incidents” of civilians….
You know it’s bad when local news stations accompany the reports by reading out your rights as citizens if you see an incident occurring…
The majority support ICE
You are in the minority
Get illegals out of usa
Get illegals out of UK too
Do you realise that social media is designed to make us believe that our opinions are shared by the majority? The people in charge of the algorithms want us divided and assured in our beliefs. We are being played."No. YOU are being played. Open your eyes. | |||
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" But if you check local news stations (ABC/NBC/CBS affiliates) or just put in ICE on YouTube you will see loads of local incidents where ICE have been involved in “roughhousing incidents” of civilians…. You know it’s bad when local news stations accompany the reports by reading out your rights as citizens if you see an incident occurring… The majority support ICE You are in the minority Get illegals out of usa Get illegals out of UK too Not according to YouGov poll ,where 40% view ICE Favourably 52% don't , , unless you have other figures showing more support for ICE Actually the other question I found interesting from that poll is “do you think ICE is making cities more safe or less safe? 31% more safe…. 51% less safe Anyway can I put on my “tin foil hat “ for a potential conspiracy theory…. Bear with me… He is using Minnesota as a test case for something bigger If the polls are looking bad for the midterms in early November .. in October he is going to flood “certain” cities with ICE hoping for severe reactions… if he gets it he will at that point use the insurrection act to put military on the streets and try and cancel the midterms Tin foil hat off….. "🤣🤣🤣 What have you been drinking and smoking With comments like that you need a visit to rehab | |||
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" That's not the original point NotMe was making - "what has gone wrong with upholding law and order in some Democratic states and cities to the point federal law enforcement is needed to do the job" Mayors of these cities have more power and responsibilities when it comes to establishing law and order there than the governors. To which my point is 2 fold…. ( you’ll notice I am about to actually answer a straight question.. you might actually want to try it sometime … )
1) it’s not just democratic states.. it’s republican ones as well, and the trump administration is not applying the same standard, because if it was those cities in those states where the governor has powers over and above those of the mayors …
governor have the powers to call up their states national guard over and above the objections of a mayor
For example, Minnesota governor Tim Walz did this after Renee good was murdered
2) the mayors of every single one of those cities (and countless others) have said every single time “we have enough police in our cities and they have the situation in hand to where we do not need extra assistance from federal agencies “
Do you know how many cities in the United States have actually invited the invitation of extra federal forces … the answer is zero! …. Both democratic and republican mayors… zero!
The question still hasn't been answered, the question had the word "some" in it, not all.
"what has gone wrong with upholding law and order in "some" Democratic states and cities to the point federal law enforcement is needed to do the job".
There are more issues in "some" Democratic states and cities in upholding the law of the land, and it is having a detrimental impact when federal enforcement needs to step in, why is that?
Your question is loaded, 'the point federal law enforcement is needed to do the job"'
Who is saying that they NEED to be called in? It's obviously your intention that they should be - so potentially it's worth considering asking different questions
I’m struggling to follow your response, are you telling me that questions I’m asking need to stop? To be clear there is a difference between the way republican areas and democratic areas are responding and being responded to by federal agents and the people who live there. That is my question what is the difference and why is it different. The question isn’t loaded it is clear, and further on you will see I mention how is that difference going to be resolved, because there is no middle ground.
Actually… there isn’t a difference
See, the problem is that you think there is a difference, the answer is wherever DHS and ICE have gone in and made these flashy splashes there have been issues and tons of
of locals have complained
You picked the places that sound flashy but other places have been affected
There have been issues in Charlotte and Raleigh, North Carolina…. There have been issues in Miami, Florida… there have been issues in Denver, Colorado… there have been issues in Sacramento, California there are currently issues in both Memphis and New Orleans from locals objecting
Issues up in both Maine and Vermont….
Go and look
If the issue is across both republican and democrat states and cities why is it world news in the democratic states? Is it the media pumping Trump / democrat differences? It looks one sided from my view, and I will look at the others you mentioned.
I would argue it’s where the flood of ICE operations are happening at any given time
For example LA was the first, Minneapolis just happens to be the latest
But if you check local news stations (ABC/NBC/CBS affiliates) or just put in ICE on YouTube you will see loads of local incidents where ICE have been involved in “roughhousing incidents” of civilians….
You know it’s bad when local news stations accompany the reports by reading out your rights as citizens if you see an incident occurring…
The majority support ICE
You are in the minority
Get illegals out of usa
Get illegals out of UK too
Do you realise that social media is designed to make us believe that our opinions are shared by the majority? The people in charge of the algorithms want us divided and assured in our beliefs. We are being played.
No.
YOU are being played.
Open your eyes."1)How am I being played? 2)What do I need to open my eyes to? | |||
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"I think it’s interesting that the DOJ are investigating.. in no order… the partner of the murder victim, people who took videos of the incident, people who called 911, the hospital to which people are taken to, and now the mayor and the governor…. One person who is not being investigated… the ice agent So the speed that the FBI took away the evidence, are not cooperating with any local authorities, have shut down the states civil rights division, The government are ramping this up And with the new NYT evidence that the car did NOT hit the ice agent (which makes a mockery of CBS news saying the officer was taken to hospital and found to have internal injuries from the incident) You know what they say, the crime is bad… but not as bad as the cover up… The smells worse by the second " You are spreading misinformation and utter nonsense. The Ice agent was simply doing his job. The person in the wrong was the lady protesting, she was all so smug and cocky and thought she could do what she wanted. If Law enforcement says Don't move... guess what? You don't move... You certainly don't try to drive off, and you don't aim your car at a Law Enforcement Officer. If she obeyed the law and done what she was told, she would still be alive today. The problem we have, is smug leftist protesters who think they are above the Law. Look how that ended for her. | |||
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"I think it’s interesting that the DOJ are investigating.. in no order… the partner of the murder victim, people who took videos of the incident, people who called 911, the hospital to which people are taken to, and now the mayor and the governor…. One person who is not being investigated… the ice agent So the speed that the FBI took away the evidence, are not cooperating with any local authorities, have shut down the states civil rights division, The government are ramping this up And with the new NYT evidence that the car did NOT hit the ice agent (which makes a mockery of CBS news saying the officer was taken to hospital and found to have internal injuries from the incident) You know what they say, the crime is bad… but not as bad as the cover up… The smells worse by the second You are spreading misinformation and utter nonsense. The Ice agent was simply doing his job. The person in the wrong was the lady protesting, she was all so smug and cocky and thought she could do what she wanted. If Law enforcement says Don't move... guess what? You don't move... You certainly don't try to drive off, and you don't aim your car at a Law Enforcement Officer. If she obeyed the law and done what she was told, she would still be alive today. The problem we have, is smug leftist protesters who think they are above the Law. Look how that ended for her." Go and look at the NYT video.. If you still believe he was 'run over' or even that his body was hit apart from his outstretched left arm then book an eye test.. | |||
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"I think it’s interesting that the DOJ are investigating.. in no order… the partner of the murder victim, people who took videos of the incident, people who called 911, the hospital to which people are taken to, and now the mayor and the governor…. One person who is not being investigated… the ice agent So the speed that the FBI took away the evidence, are not cooperating with any local authorities, have shut down the states civil rights division, The government are ramping this up And with the new NYT evidence that the car did NOT hit the ice agent (which makes a mockery of CBS news saying the officer was taken to hospital and found to have internal injuries from the incident) You know what they say, the crime is bad… but not as bad as the cover up… The smells worse by the second You are spreading misinformation and utter nonsense. The Ice agent was simply doing his job. The person in the wrong was the lady protesting, she was all so smug and cocky and thought she could do what she wanted. If Law enforcement says Don't move... guess what? You don't move... You certainly don't try to drive off, and you don't aim your car at a Law Enforcement Officer. If she obeyed the law and done what she was told, she would still be alive today. The problem we have, is smug leftist protesters who think they are above the Law. Look how that ended for her. Go and look at the NYT video.. If you still believe he was 'run over' or even that his body was hit apart from his outstretched left arm then book an eye test.. " Read above, perhaps read it twice, infact I will post it again so you can SLOWLY read and acknowledge.. I never said he was running over. I said the stupid smug, leftist woman did not obey the law You are spreading misinformation and utter nonsense. The Ice agent was simply doing his job. The person in the wrong was the lady protesting, she was all so smug and cocky and thought she could do what she wanted. If Law enforcement says Don't move... guess what? You don't move... You certainly don't try to drive off, and you don't aim your car at a Law Enforcement Officer. If she obeyed the law and done what she was told, she would still be alive today. The problem we have, is smug leftist protesters who think they are above the Law. Look how that ended for her | |||
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Posting the word SLOWLY in capitals doesn't mean what you've said is accurate in fact it shows a lack of the ability to look at an issue in any sort of objective reasoning..
Watch the video..
Perhaps look at what the Chief of Police said about the emphasis on training given to police officers who deal with similar situations daily to not put themselves in such a position where they feel using lethal force is an option..
ICE are not trained to the same level..
That's why he killed an unarmed woman who wasn't a threat to him.. | |||
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"
Posting the word SLOWLY in capitals doesn't mean what you've said is accurate in fact it shows a lack of the ability to look at an issue in any sort of objective reasoning..
Watch the video..
Perhaps look at what the Chief of Police said about the emphasis on training given to police officers who deal with similar situations daily to not put themselves in such a position where they feel using lethal force is an option..
ICE are not trained to the same level..
That's why he killed an unarmed woman who wasn't a threat to him.."Wake Up. The lady was Breaking the Law and she was disobeying Law Enforcement when she was shot. You Clearly think that it is okay to disobey the Law and that is what's wrong with society today. People like you think you are above the law and you can do whatever you want. Well that lady learned the hard way that Law's should be obeyed. Let's hope you don't learn the hard way when you break the law. | |||
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"
Posting the word SLOWLY in capitals doesn't mean what you've said is accurate in fact it shows a lack of the ability to look at an issue in any sort of objective reasoning..
Watch the video..
Perhaps look at what the Chief of Police said about the emphasis on training given to police officers who deal with similar situations daily to not put themselves in such a position where they feel using lethal force is an option..
ICE are not trained to the same level..
That's why he killed an unarmed woman who wasn't a threat to him..
Wake Up.
The lady was Breaking the Law and she was disobeying Law Enforcement when she was shot.
You Clearly think that it is okay to disobey the Law and that is what's wrong with society today.
People like you think you are above the law and you can do whatever you want.
Well that lady learned the hard way that Law's should be obeyed.
Let's hope you don't learn the hard way when you break the law."Said every fascist lickspittle that put on a uniform..  | |||
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"
Posting the word SLOWLY in capitals doesn't mean what you've said is accurate in fact it shows a lack of the ability to look at an issue in any sort of objective reasoning..
Watch the video..
Perhaps look at what the Chief of Police said about the emphasis on training given to police officers who deal with similar situations daily to not put themselves in such a position where they feel using lethal force is an option..
ICE are not trained to the same level..
That's why he killed an unarmed woman who wasn't a threat to him..
Wake Up.
The lady was Breaking the Law and she was disobeying Law Enforcement when she was shot.
You Clearly think that it is okay to disobey the Law and that is what's wrong with society today.
People like you think you are above the law and you can do whatever you want.
Well that lady learned the hard way that Law's should be obeyed.
Let's hope you don't learn the hard way when you break the law."What evidence would it take to convince you that you are wrong? | |||
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"I think it’s interesting that the DOJ are investigating.. in no order… the partner of the murder victim, people who took videos of the incident, people who called 911, the hospital to which people are taken to, and now the mayor and the governor…. One person who is not being investigated… the ice agent So the speed that the FBI took away the evidence, are not cooperating with any local authorities, have shut down the states civil rights division, The government are ramping this up And with the new NYT evidence that the car did NOT hit the ice agent (which makes a mockery of CBS news saying the officer was taken to hospital and found to have internal injuries from the incident) You know what they say, the crime is bad… but not as bad as the cover up… The smells worse by the second " . You are spreading misinformation and utter nonsense. The Ice agent was simply doing his job. The person in the wrong was the lady protesting, she was all so smug and cocky and thought she could do what she wanted. If Law enforcement says Don't move... guess what? You don't move... You certainly don't try to drive off, and you don't aim your car at a Law Enforcement Officer. If she obeyed the law and done what she was told, she would still be alive today. The problem we have, is smug leftist protesters who think they are above the Law. Look how that ended for her. It's about time that people on the left of society realised that Laws are made to be obeyed, you do not live in la la land when you can decide what laws you obey and what laws you don't. God Bless the UK God Bless America 🇺🇸 🙏 ❤️ | |||
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"You must have seen the agent trying to open her car door. That was illegal entry and a clear threat to her. I say this because ice agents are not police, they have no legal right of entry. They need a court order specific to the property or permission from the owner/occupant. " The realities of what can be clearly seen and the actual laws under the constitution which are there to protect citizens etc are irrelevant to the types of people who are of the same mind set of those who for decades have bowed and scraped in total obedience to various despotic nutjobs the globe over.. | |||
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"You must have seen the agent trying to open her car door. That was illegal entry and a clear threat to her. I say this because ice agents are not police, they have no legal right of entry. They need a court order specific to the property or permission from the owner/occupant. The realities of what can be clearly seen and the actual laws under the constitution which are there to protect citizens etc are irrelevant to the types of people who are of the same mind set of those who for decades have bowed and scraped in total obedience to various despotic nutjobs the globe over.. "“Obey my unconstititional command at pain of death”. “Yes sir, can I please lick your boots clean while I’m on my knees”. | |||
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"Do you seriously believe that it's proportionate to shoot anyone who has broken the law ?? !!" Would cut crime dramatically tbf. | |||
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"You must have seen the agent trying to open her car door. That was illegal entry and a clear threat to her. I say this because ice agents are not police, they have no legal right of entry. They need a court order specific to the property or permission from the owner/occupant. The realities of what can be clearly seen and the actual laws under the constitution which are there to protect citizens etc are irrelevant to the types of people who are of the same mind set of those who for decades have bowed and scraped in total obedience to various despotic nutjobs the globe over..
“Obey my unconstititional command at pain of death”.
“Yes sir, can I please lick your boots clean while I’m on my knees”."I genuinely dont think the guy set out that day to do what he did, like any such loss of life at the hands of someone in authority what led to the fatal shots deserves a full investigation to learn what happened and in this case prevent it from occurring again and hold ..him and those who put him out there responsible .. But that won't happen under the current administration and that isnt correct for anyone whatever side they are on.. | |||
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"I think it’s interesting that the DOJ are investigating.. in no order… the partner of the murder victim, people who took videos of the incident, people who called 911, the hospital to which people are taken to, and now the mayor and the governor…. One person who is not being investigated… the ice agent So the speed that the FBI took away the evidence, are not cooperating with any local authorities, have shut down the states civil rights division, The government are ramping this up And with the new NYT evidence that the car did NOT hit the ice agent (which makes a mockery of CBS news saying the officer was taken to hospital and found to have internal injuries from the incident) You know what they say, the crime is bad… but not as bad as the cover up… The smells worse by the second . You are spreading misinformation and utter nonsense. The Ice agent was simply doing his job. The person in the wrong was the lady protesting, she was all so smug and cocky and thought she could do what she wanted. If Law enforcement says Don't move... guess what? You don't move... You certainly don't try to drive off, and you don't aim your car at a Law Enforcement Officer. If she obeyed the law and done what she was told, she would still be alive today. The problem we have, is smug leftist protesters who think they are above the Law. Look how that ended for her. It's about time that people on the left of society realised that Laws are made to be obeyed, you do not live in la la land when you can decide what laws you obey and what laws you don't. God Bless the UK God Bless America 🇺🇸 🙏 ❤️ " The Orange Buffoon flouts the law on a daily basis - plus he is a convicted felon. Case of kettle and pot? | |||
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"I think it’s interesting that the DOJ are investigating.. in no order… the partner of the murder victim, people who took videos of the incident, people who called 911, the hospital to which people are taken to, and now the mayor and the governor…. One person who is not being investigated… the ice agent So the speed that the FBI took away the evidence, are not cooperating with any local authorities, have shut down the states civil rights division, The government are ramping this up And with the new NYT evidence that the car did NOT hit the ice agent (which makes a mockery of CBS news saying the officer was taken to hospital and found to have internal injuries from the incident) You know what they say, the crime is bad… but not as bad as the cover up… The smells worse by the second . You are spreading misinformation and utter nonsense. The Ice agent was simply doing his job. The person in the wrong was the lady protesting, she was all so smug and cocky and thought she could do what she wanted. If Law enforcement says Don't move... guess what? You don't move... You certainly don't try to drive off, and you don't aim your car at a Law Enforcement Officer. If she obeyed the law and done what she was told, she would still be alive today. The problem we have, is smug leftist protesters who think they are above the Law. Look how that ended for her. It's about time that people on the left of society realised that Laws are made to be obeyed, you do not live in la la land when you can decide what laws you obey and what laws you don't. God Bless the UK God Bless America 🇺🇸 🙏 ❤️ "
Spot on
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"“ God Bless the UK God Bless America 🇺🇸 🙏 ❤️ " Spot on” Why are you agreeing with your own comment? " Not for the first time lol..
I mean there was a regular poster on here who still has several profiles who once halfway through a thread responded to someone posting a reply to his previous post..
With a different profile ..
Sounds a bit like a self verification which is against the sites rules.. | |||
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"I think it’s interesting that the DOJ are investigating.. in no order… the partner of the murder victim, people who took videos of the incident, people who called 911, the hospital to which people are taken to, and now the mayor and the governor…. One person who is not being investigated… the ice agent So the speed that the FBI took away the evidence, are not cooperating with any local authorities, have shut down the states civil rights division, The government are ramping this up And with the new NYT evidence that the car did NOT hit the ice agent (which makes a mockery of CBS news saying the officer was taken to hospital and found to have internal injuries from the incident) You know what they say, the crime is bad… but not as bad as the cover up… The smells worse by the second . You are spreading misinformation and utter nonsense. The Ice agent was simply doing his job. The person in the wrong was the lady protesting, she was all so smug and cocky and thought she could do what she wanted. If Law enforcement says Don't move... guess what? You don't move... You certainly don't try to drive off, and you don't aim your car at a Law Enforcement Officer. If she obeyed the law and done what she was told, she would still be alive today. The problem we have, is smug leftist protesters who think they are above the Law. Look how that ended for her. It's about time that people on the left of society realised that Laws are made to be obeyed, you do not live in la la land when you can decide what laws you obey and what laws you don't. God Bless the UK God Bless America 🇺🇸 🙏 ❤️ " I am not a Church attendee so if there are any of you out there feel free to correct me ,, but I see Trump and his followers not wanting illegals in his country , I also see over here we have the likes of Yaxley Lennon's supporters carrying crosses at their demonstration ,,, but here's the thing , if there is a God why would he bless a country ? Surely Gods love is for all of us so he loves us not specific areas of land ,, and if God is the almighty how can anyone anywhere in Gods World be illegal no matter where they are ,The World belongs to God , not to a King or a Prime Minister or a President or a dictator ,, I just think that those claiming God to be on their side might actually have got it wrong | |||
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"“ God Bless the UK God Bless America 🇺🇸 🙏 ❤️ " Spot on” Why are you agreeing with your own comment? Not for the first time lol..
I mean there was a regular poster on here who still has several profiles who once halfway through a thread responded to someone posting a reply to his previous post..
With a different profile ..
Sounds a bit like a self verification which is against the sites rules.. "I was going to say it’s either a case of he thought people would not notice… or the worst case of amnesia I have seen in a long time!
I know I have sarcastically accused people of selective amnesia in the past but this may be a classic!
Imagine reading a post, thinking I like the cut of that person’s gib, only to find out it was you!!! I suppose it’s self affirmation in the finest…. | |||
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"“ God Bless the UK God Bless America 🇺🇸 🙏 ❤️ " Spot on” Why are you agreeing with your own comment? Not for the first time lol..
I mean there was a regular poster on here who still has several profiles who once halfway through a thread responded to someone posting a reply to his previous post..
With a different profile ..
Sounds a bit like a self verification which is against the sites rules..
I was going to say it’s either a case of he thought people would not notice… or the worst case of amnesia I have seen in a long time!
I know I have sarcastically accused people of selective amnesia in the past but this may be a classic!
Imagine reading a post, thinking I like the cut of that person’s gib, only to find out it was you!!! I suppose it’s self affirmation in the finest…. "Once might be a mistake, excitedness perhaps but twice 🤔.. Iffy as.. | |||
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"“Law is made to be obeyed” At pain of death? Served by an unqualified, untrained, self appointed judge, jury and executioner?" Who in any case as a federal agent does not have the authority to do traffic stops if they think a violation has occurred.. | |||
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"“ God Bless the UK God Bless America 🇺🇸 🙏 ❤️ " Spot on” Why are you agreeing with your own comment? Not for the first time lol..
I mean there was a regular poster on here who still has several profiles who once halfway through a thread responded to someone posting a reply to his previous post..
With a different profile ..
Sounds a bit like a self verification which is against the sites rules..
I was going to say it’s either a case of he thought people would not notice… or the worst case of amnesia I have seen in a long time!
I know I have sarcastically accused people of selective amnesia in the past but this may be a classic!
Imagine reading a post, thinking I like the cut of that person’s gib, only to find out it was you!!! I suppose it’s self affirmation in the finest….
It's basically saying read it again fatio
As you simply cannot defend the defenceless
The lady is as guilty as he'll and her own stupidness of breaking the law cost her life, now ...
If you really think she was in the right for breaking the law then you must be as foolish as she was.
Law is made to be obeyed, and she should have done what she was asked to do.
Fool on her for thinking she was better than the law."Actually…. A) she didn’t break any laws… ICE agents are only allowed to stop people if they think there was a suspicion of her being an illegal (bearing in mind they are not supposed to racially profile.. but we know they do!) B) the 1st ICE car, which she waived through, shouted “get the fuck out of the way… which she was actually in the midst of complying with…. the 2nd ICE car was the one was the one illegally ordering her out of the car…. So… if 2 sets of agents.. both with guns, give you two different sets of contradictory orders.. which one do you listen to? Again.. bearing in mind she was already in the process of complying…. C) we know she didn’t hit him with the car, we know she steered away from him, you are only supposed to fire if a life was in danger… notice the other agents all thought his life wasn’t in danger Shot 1 went through the bottom corner of the passenger side window .. God forbid if the partner had managed to get in the car… you may have been looking at 2 fatalities! Shots 2 and 3 were definitely him shooting from the side, so where was his life “in danger” then? D) police manuals and rules say you don’t shoot at moving vehicles because a) you don’t know what is in front of you miss… b) dead people can’t control vehicles!!! Hence the crash! Lucky people down the street were not injured… actually lucky the dog in the back seat didn’t get hurt! You are right.. laws are meant to be obeyed… they are also supposed to be enforced properly, this ICE agent certainly did not do that It was reckless with no remorse (fucking bitch!) | |||
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"Actually…. A) she didn’t break any laws…" Actually... she did. Is it against the law in the US to park your vehicle across a lane of traffic with the intention to disrupt and obstruct traffic flow, including law enforcement officers during the performance of their duties? Yes, it is. Is is against the law in the US refusing to comply with law enforcement officers instructions (repeatedly)? Yes, it is. Is it against the law in the US to accelerate a vehicle forwards whilst any person is stood in front of you? Particularly a law enforcement officer during an attempted detainment? Oh yes, VERY much so. "ICE agents are only allowed to stop people if they think there was a suspicion of her being an illegal" This is incorrect. ICE agents are federal law enforcement officers, under the wider umbrella of the Department of Homeland Security. As such, they are imbued with the authority to stop, detain and arrest people for witnessed criminal offences outside that of immigration laws. Especially/particularly ones such as obstruction, resisting and assualt directed at them whilst performing their immigration-focused duties. "B) the 2nd ICE car was the one was the one illegally ordering her out of the car…" You've got it backwards. SHE was the one illegally blocking a lane of traffic. The ICE agents were within their authority to order her out of the vehicle. Which she illegally ignored (repeatedly). "C) we know she didn’t hit him with the car" Except that this is a blatant lie. We know she DID hit him, we have the video and audio footage of him being struck, plain as day. First his outstretched hand and arm and then his torso as his arm is compressed into him and his legs, which he was in the process of moving out the way, were pushed/slid backwards/sideways. "You are right.. laws are meant to be obeyed…" Something Good failed to do at every step of the way. "It was reckless with no remorse" Indeed. Why would anyone, much less a mother of three, be so stupid and reckless with their life like that? What on earth convinced that poor woman she could just flawnt the law and do the FA part without the FO part?? It just doesn't make any sense... "Well said Fabio!" Ermmmm... not even remotely. lol | |||
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"Actually…. A) she didn’t break any laws… Actually... she did. Is it against the law in the US to park your vehicle across a lane of traffic with the intention to disrupt and obstruct traffic flow, including law enforcement officers during the performance of their duties? Yes, it is. Is is against the law in the US refusing to comply with law enforcement officers instructions (repeatedly)? Yes, it is. Is it against the law in the US to accelerate a vehicle forwards whilst any person is stood in front of you? Particularly a law enforcement officer during an attempted detainment? Oh yes, VERY much so. ICE agents are only allowed to stop people if they think there was a suspicion of her being an illegal This is incorrect. ICE agents are federal law enforcement officers, under the wider umbrella of the Department of Homeland Security. As such, they are imbued with the authority to stop, detain and arrest people for witnessed criminal offences outside that of immigration laws. Especially/particularly ones such as obstruction, resisting and assualt directed at them whilst performing their immigration-focused duties. B) the 2nd ICE car was the one was the one illegally ordering her out of the car… You've got it backwards. SHE was the one illegally blocking a lane of traffic. The ICE agents were within their authority to order her out of the vehicle. Which she illegally ignored (repeatedly). C) we know she didn’t hit him with the car Except that this is a blatant lie. We know she DID hit him, we have the video and audio footage of him being struck, plain as day. First his outstretched hand and arm and then his torso as his arm is compressed into him and his legs, which he was in the process of moving out the way, were pushed/slid backwards/sideways. You are right.. laws are meant to be obeyed… Something Good failed to do at every step of the way. It was reckless with no remorse Indeed. Why would anyone, much less a mother of three, be so stupid and reckless with their life like that? What on earth convinced that poor woman she could just flawnt the law and do the FA part without the FO part?? It just doesn't make any sense... Well said Fabio! Ermmmm... not even remotely. lol" All federal officers are not equal. You may be conflating the powers of ICE agents and FBI agents. Ice agents have no powers to enter or search property without a specific court order. They also have no powers to detain US citizens. Their only jurisdiction is with known undocumented immigrants. Legal commands can only occur when backed up by ID, they carry none. She was fleeing a masked man with no authority attempting to enter her car. | |||
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"All federal officers are not equal." Didn't say they were. "You may be conflating the powers of ICE agents and FBI agents." Nope. "Ice agents have no powers to enter or search property without a specific court order." Okay? What does that have to do with anything? "They also have no powers to detain US citizens. Their only jurisdiction is with known undocumented immigrants." This is incorrect, as I already explained above. "She was fleeing a masked man with no authority attempting to enter her car." She knew they were ICE. She was specifically there to enter confrontation with ICE. She was illegally blocking a lane of traffic with her SUV. She illegally ignored instructions from federal law enforcement officers. She illegally tried to flee the scene. She illegally accelerated towards and hit a federal law enforcement officer. If you obstruct an officer, resist an officer, and assault an officer, in court saying to the judge "he was wearing a mask so I didn't know it was the police" isn't going to be enough of a defence against her breaking multiple laws. Let's not insult each other's intelligence with any pretence that she didn't know exactly what she was doing and who she was dealing with, eh? The whole "she was just an innocent bystander trying to drop off her kids" narrative was nixed very quickly. For obvious reason. | |||
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"Actually…. A) she didn’t break any laws… Actually... she did. Is it against the law in the US to park your vehicle across a lane of traffic with the intention to disrupt and obstruct traffic flow, including law enforcement officers during the performance of their duties? Yes, it is. Is is against the law in the US refusing to comply with law enforcement officers instructions (repeatedly)? Yes, it is. Is it against the law in the US to accelerate a vehicle forwards whilst any person is stood in front of you? Particularly a law enforcement officer during an attempted detainment? Oh yes, VERY much so. ICE agents are only allowed to stop people if they think there was a suspicion of her being an illegal This is incorrect. ICE agents are federal law enforcement officers, under the wider umbrella of the Department of Homeland Security. As such, they are imbued with the authority to stop, detain and arrest people for witnessed criminal offences outside that of immigration laws. Especially/particularly ones such as obstruction, resisting and assualt directed at them whilst performing their immigration-focused duties. B) the 2nd ICE car was the one was the one illegally ordering her out of the car… You've got it backwards. SHE was the one illegally blocking a lane of traffic. The ICE agents were within their authority to order her out of the vehicle. Which she illegally ignored (repeatedly). C) we know she didn’t hit him with the car Except that this is a blatant lie. We know she DID hit him, we have the video and audio footage of him being struck, plain as day. First his outstretched hand and arm and then his torso as his arm is compressed into him and his legs, which he was in the process of moving out the way, were pushed/slid backwards/sideways. You are right.. laws are meant to be obeyed… Something Good failed to do at every step of the way. It was reckless with no remorse Indeed. Why would anyone, much less a mother of three, be so stupid and reckless with their life like that? What on earth convinced that poor woman she could just flawnt the law and do the FA part without the FO part?? It just doesn't make any sense... Well said Fabio! Ermmmm... not even remotely. lol" All the above makes Perfect sense Ofcourse the lefter than left know it all's will disagree, it's very surprising that they haven't been snatched up by U.S. Law makers for advice
Although they are more likely to be snatched up by Walter Mitty.
Fact is: at the end of the day, ** the lady in question was in the wrong
** She disobeyed orders and instructions from Law officers
** She tried to escape the Law whilst endangering others
** A law officer took a shot to protect himself and the lady in question lost her life.
I guess the only good thing to come out of it is that she won't break any other laws and she won't put further law officers in danger
Im sure Everyone can fully agree with the above. | |||
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"these extra judicial killings carried out by the presidents modern day gestapo have probably cost him the mid-terms" And it's my opinion that hyperbolic and inflammatory online rhetoric such as referring to ICE agents as "gestapo" are part of the issue in creating a permission structure for vulnerable karens to behave recklessly, and have probably, in some cases, cost them their lives (e.g. Renee Good). | |||
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""Ice agents have no powers to enter or search property without a specific court order." Okay? What does that have to do with anything? As I’ve already said, the ICE agent was attempting to illegally enter the woman’s car. An aggressive armed man in a mask with no ID was attempting to open the car door of a US citizen with no court order. She had been told to clear the road. When she was reversing one of the officers pulled his gun. 1)What part of this do you not understand? 2)What evidence would it take to change your mind?" Why don't you get the next flight over to the States and try to state your case, You won't and we all know you won't because you have absolutely nothing in your power to do anything No different from all the idiots that protest on save Palestinians in gaza protests across our cities, totally clueless idiots the lot of them. | |||
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"As I’ve already said, the ICE agent was attempting to illegally enter the woman’s car." As I've already said, Good and her SUV were there illegally. On purpose. The ICE agent had every right and every authority to order her to remove herself, when she didn't comply they had every right and authority to then approach on foot and order her to exit the vehicle. She failed to comply to this also. "An aggressive armed man in a mask with no ID was attempting to open the car door of a US citizen with no court order." They were ICE agents, therefore federal law enforcement officers. Their "aggression" in the eyes of any third-party onlookers is irrelevant. They do not need a court order to open the door of someone's car who is commiting multiple crimes in front of their eyes. "She had been told to clear the road. When she was reversing one of the officers pulled his gun." Armed law enforcement have been known to draw their firearms, this is true. All the more reason not to go out of your way looking for confrontation with them and commit crimes in front of them and play the FAFO game against them. This is just basic, rational, common sense. She illegally blocked a lane of traffic with her SUV, she illegally ignored orders, both to clear the way and then to exit the vehicle multiple times. 1) What part of this do you not understand? "2)What evidence would it take to change your mind?" An entirely different chain of events to have unfolded clearly on video for all to see... obviously. | |||
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"these extra judicial killings carried out by the presidents modern day gestapo have probably cost him the mid-terms And it's my opinion that hyperbolic and inflammatory online rhetoric such as referring to ICE agents as "gestapo" are part of the issue in creating a permission structure for vulnerable karens to behave recklessly, and have probably, in some cases, cost them their lives (e.g. Renee Good)." and yet you engage in hyperbolic rhetoric describing the victim of extra judicial killing by the presidents modern day gestapo with the inflammatory online appellation of "vulnerable karen" how ironic | |||
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" ... Im sure Everyone can fully agree with the above." A rather strong assumption to make! | |||
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"See there is a problem with what merces said… Almost none of it is actually true….. So I went back and had a look at the rules… What powers do ICE agents have to arrest people? “ICE sees its mission as encompassing both public safety and national security. However, its powers are different to those of the average local police department in the US. Its agents can stop, detain and arrest people they suspect of being in the US illegally. However legal permission to enter a home or other private space requires a signed judicial warrant. Agents can detain US citizens in limited circumstances, such as if a person interferes with an arrest, assaults an officer, or ICE suspect the person of being in the US illegally.” So.. she was never assumed not to be a US citizen, she was in a private space (her car) She didn’t interfere with an arrest (she waived the first ICE vehicle through and never impeded them) She didn’t assault an officer (at that point there was no dispute) So the entire stop was illegal before we get to anything else!… but we continue… “ICE's use of force actions are governed by a combination of the US Constitution, US law and the Department of Homeland Security's own policy guidelines. Under the US constitution, law enforcement "can only use deadly force if the person poses a serious danger to them or other people, or the person has committed a violent crime", A DHS policy memo from 2023 states that federal officers "may use deadly force only when necessary" when they have "a reasonable belief that the subject of such force poses an imminent threat of death or serious bodily injury" to themself or another person. So as much as merces wants to push the government line… the NYT video evidence released yesterday shows the officer was not hit by the vehicle….. the agent would not have been the only one to see her turn the steering wheel away from the agent, his colleagues would have as well! None of the other agents got their guns out so they can’t of believed their colleagues life was in danger, especially since shots 2 and 3 were taken by the agent when he was side on to the vehicle! And as I said before, which he convenient left out…. It’s against police protocol to shoot at a moving vehicle for safety reasons (bullets don’t magically stop if you miss.. and dead people can’t control a car!)" Thanks for taking the time to break this down Fabio, I have lost the will to beat my head against a wall any longer. | |||
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"and yet you engage in hyperbolic rhetoric describing the victim of extra judicial killing by the presidents modern day gestapo with the inflammatory online appellation of "vulnerable karen" how ironic" Wow. Points for 'appellation' usage. Good word.
Unfortunately, however, nothing in my post fits the definitions for hyperbole or inflammatory, whereas Good was, quite clearly through her actions, a perfect example of a vulnerable karen. Her death, while extremely tragic and 100% avoidable, does not meet the criteria for extrajudicial killing. Finally, nothing in my post meets the definiton for irony. So that's a net-negative on points, I'm afraid...
"What powers do ICE agents have to arrest people? "Agents can detain US citizens in limited circumstances, such as if a person interferes with an arrest, assaults an officer..."" ... yep, exactly. This includes federal or suspected federal violations, obviously. Such as obstruction or impediment to performance of duties by federal law enforcement officers. "she was in a private space (her car)" No, a vehicle does not have the same legal recognition or status as a person's residence. That's provided it's parked safely in a driveway or at the side of a road, etc. It gets even less coverage under the law when it's parked unsafely blocking a lane of traffic on a public roadway. "She didn’t interfere with an arrest (she waived the first ICE vehicle through and never impeded them)" She doesn't need to have interferred with an arrest. She was clearly impeding and obstructing the flow of traffic (footage of other cars having to move awkwardly around her SUV), her entire point/motive for being there was to impede and obstruct ICE officers in carrying out their duties. Stop playing dumb. "She didn’t assault an officer" She hit him with her car... "So the entire stop was illegal before we get to anything else!" Correct. She had no legal right to stop there. None. Zero. ""Under the US constitution, law enforcement "can only use deadly force if the person poses a serious danger to them or other people, or the person has committed a violent crime"" Such as driving into an officer with her car... i.e. reckless endangerment. "A DHS policy memo from 2023 states that federal officers "may use deadly force only when necessary" when they have "a reasonable belief that the subject of such force poses an imminent threat of death or serious bodily injury" to themself or another person." Right. The kind of thing being hit with an SUV might cause... "the NYT video evidence released yesterday shows the officer was not hit by the vehicle…" Except that it clearly does. Why are you lying?? | |||
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"...and a mother of three children" ...this is pretty much the issue - people focus on the emotional side (she deserves to die because she was anti-ICE/she didn't deserve to die because ICE is evil), basing their arguments on how they feel, which serves only to entrench division and partisan position. Emotion over reason. | |||
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"Reason? Morality " This whole thing is a (very unfunny) joke. Like so many very real and tragic episodes in the US, the truth seems subjective to a point of view. Almost everyone on the "right" blames the woman who was killed. Almost everyone on the "left" blames the ICE agent. There is no truth or morality in this incident: her death is a cynical political football. Anyone claiming to really care is probably lying (to themselves, as much as anyone else). So much confected outrage. On both sides. | |||
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"...and a mother of three children" "...this is pretty much the issue - people focus on the emotional side (she deserves to die because she was anti-ICE/she didn't deserve to die because ICE is evil), basing their arguments on how they feel, which serves only to entrench division and partisan position. Emotion over reason." Very much this. | |||
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"See there is a problem with what merces said… Almost none of it is actually true….. So I went back and had a look at the rules… What powers do ICE agents have to arrest people? “ICE sees its mission as encompassing both public safety and national security. However, its powers are different to those of the average local police department in the US. Its agents can stop, detain and arrest people they suspect of being in the US illegally. However legal permission to enter a home or other private space requires a signed judicial warrant. Agents can detain US citizens in limited circumstances, such as if a person interferes with an arrest, assaults an officer, or ICE suspect the person of being in the US illegally.” So.. she was never assumed not to be a US citizen, she was in a private space (her car) She didn’t interfere with an arrest (she waived the first ICE vehicle through and never impeded them) She didn’t assault an officer (at that point there was no dispute) So the entire stop was illegal before we get to anything else!… but we continue… “ICE's use of force actions are governed by a combination of the US Constitution, US law and the Department of Homeland Security's own policy guidelines. Under the US constitution, law enforcement "can only use deadly force if the person poses a serious danger to them or other people, or the person has committed a violent crime", A DHS policy memo from 2023 states that federal officers "may use deadly force only when necessary" when they have "a reasonable belief that the subject of such force poses an imminent threat of death or serious bodily injury" to themself or another person. So as much as merces wants to push the government line… the NYT video evidence released yesterday shows the officer was not hit by the vehicle….. the agent would not have been the only one to see her turn the steering wheel away from the agent, his colleagues would have as well! None of the other agents got their guns out so they can’t of believed their colleagues life was in danger, especially since shots 2 and 3 were taken by the agent when he was side on to the vehicle! And as I said before, which he convenient left out…. It’s against police protocol to shoot at a moving vehicle for safety reasons (bullets don’t magically stop if you miss.. and dead people can’t control a car!)" factually excellent | |||
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"and yet you engage in hyperbolic rhetoric describing the victim of extra judicial killing by the presidents modern day gestapo with the inflammatory online appellation of "vulnerable karen" how ironic Wow. Points for 'appellation' usage. Good word.
Unfortunately, however, nothing in my post fits the definitions for hyperbole or inflammatory,"again how ironic, after it's been proven | |||
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"Should we be asking, what has gone wrong with upholding law and order in some Democratic states and cities to the point federal law enforcement is needed to do the job? " _______________________________ This notion only exists in the minds of the authoritarian administration, federal law enforcement is not upholding the law, they're contributing to the demise of democracy in the US and shredding of their previously inviolate constitution. | |||
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"Should we be asking, what has gone wrong with upholding law and order in some Democratic states and cities to the point federal law enforcement is needed to do the job? _______________________________ This notion only exists in the minds of the authoritarian administration, federal law enforcement is not upholding the law, they're contributing to the demise of democracy in the US and shredding of their previously inviolate constitution." I have been challenged on this and looked into it in a lot more detail. I found the level of illegal immigration is similar across Democratic and Republican areas. The difference between those states and cities is in their response to the issue. Democratic run states and cities are more likely to restrict cooperation with ICE and use ICE enforcement as a political or moral issue. Public resistance and protest against ICE is also higher and more volatile in those areas. Your say it is at the demise of democracy, I think it is the opposite of that at a national level. The states that are protecting illegal immigrants with "forceful" protests against ICE are not following democracy, they are the authoritarians in this by deciding what they believe should and should not be policed. There is theatre to be had from a Republican perspective and the ICE protestors are too eager to deliver. The ballot box is where this needs to change democratically and nationally. | |||
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"Look at how real fascists treat peaceful protesters in Iran, then hopefully feel some embrassment at using this word towards Trump or ICE." ______________________________________________________ They all started somewhere | |||
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"The fact remains this was an unarmed woman" Vehicular deaths in the US are pretty much as high as those via firearms. She wasn't unarmed at all. She had an SUV. Which she used. "factually excellent "Name one. "again how ironic, after it's been proven" What's ironic? And how? What's been proven? "Your say it is at the demise of democracy, I think it is the opposite of that at a national level. The states that are protecting illegal immigrants with "forceful" protests against ICE are not following democracy, they are the authoritarians in this by deciding what they believe should and should not be policed. There is theatre to be had from a Republican perspective and the ICE protestors are too eager to deliver. The ballot box is where this needs to change democratically and nationally." Good point. Well said. "They all started somewhere" Italy, wasn't it? | |||
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"Look at how real fascists treat peaceful protesters in Iran, then hopefully feel some embrassment at using this word towards Trump or ICE." i don't recall anyone here using that word ... apart from you | |||
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"After yet another incident on Thursday which was lucky not to be a tragic one… a family got caught up in a car in the middle of peaceful protest between protesters and ICE ICE agents solution for getting the car to move…. Place a tear gas canister under the minivan!!!! The minivan lifted off the ground, all the airbags went off in the vehicle as tear gas entered the vehicle The minivan had a family with 2 adults and 6 children in it… including a 6 month old Luckily they were rescued from the vehicle by bystanders who rushed towards car, the 6 month old stopped breathing… the mother managed to give the baby CPR As a result a federal judge has ordered sweeping restrictions on what tactics can be used by immigration agents when responding to demonstrations against their operations in Minnesota after a spate of claims of arbitrary detentions and excessive force being used against protesters. U.S. District Judge Katherine Menendez’s ruling in a preliminary injunction on Friday bars agents from using pepper spray, arresting, detaining, or retaliating against “persons who are engaging in peaceful and unobstructive protest activity.” It also bans agents from stopping and arresting drivers who are not “forcibly obstructing or interfering.” The ruling specifically states that a vehicle safely following immigration agents’ vehicles does not, on its own, justify a traffic stop. Many immigration activist groups track and follow the activity of immigration enforcement officers using their vehicles. " Nonsense | |||
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"This morning I saw a psychologist state that authoritarian leaders appeal to people with insecure nervous systems. It sent me on a deep dive to learn more about it. This is copied and pasted. “Understanding the Preference for Authoritarian Leadership Insecurity and Authoritarianism People with insecure nervous systems often prefer authoritarian leadership due to their heightened sense of fear and insecurity. This psychological state can lead individuals to seek stability and control, which authoritarian leaders promise. When the environment feels threatening, these individuals may gravitate towards strong leaders who appear to offer solutions and protection. Characteristics of Authoritarian Followers Research indicates that authoritarian followers typically exhibit three main tendencies: Authoritarian Submission: They obey authority figures from their in-group. Authoritarian Aggression: They tend to punish those who break rules or challenge authority. Conventionalism: They rigidly endorse long-held traditions and norms. These traits make them more susceptible to authoritarian leaders who reinforce their beliefs and provide a sense of order. The Role of Environment The social and economic environment significantly influences this preference. Low levels of openness to experience and high conscientiousness, combined with a threatening atmosphere, can lead individuals to view the world as dangerous. This perception drives them to seek out authoritarian figures who promise to restore stability and security. Conclusion In summary, individuals with insecure nervous systems may prefer authoritarian leadership as a response to their fears and insecurities. They find comfort in the control and predictability that such leaders claim to provide, often at the expense of democratic values and freedoms.“" That's quite a sweeping statement about a big percentage of the population of China. | |||
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"“ That's quite a sweeping statement about a big percentage of the population of China.” It’s a positive feedback cycle. Authoritarian leadership creates insecure nervous systems, insecure nervous systems seek authoritarian leadership…" And you reached this conclusion based on one paper? I am not authoritarian by any means. I love liberal values and all that. If anything, I have advocated for personal freedom like freedom of speech more than progressives who pretend to have liberal values. But calling all the people who prefer authoritarian governments as people with insecure nervous system is one of the lamest things I have heard. That's like billions of people you are talking about. There maybe some insecure people who prefer authoritarianism, yes. But preference for authoritarianism doesn't imply insecurity. | |||
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"“ But calling all the people who prefer authoritarian governments as people with insecure nervous system is one of the lamest things I have heard. That's like billions of people you are talking about. There maybe some insecure people who prefer authoritarianism, yes. But preference for authoritarianism doesn't imply insecurity.” Nobody has said that all people who prefer authoritarian leadership have insecure nervous systems. " Do all people who have insecure nervous system prefer authoritarianism? | |||
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"“ But calling all the people who prefer authoritarian governments as people with insecure nervous system is one of the lamest things I have heard. That's like billions of people you are talking about. There maybe some insecure people who prefer authoritarianism, yes. But preference for authoritarianism doesn't imply insecurity.” Nobody has said that all people who prefer authoritarian leadership have insecure nervous systems. Do all people who have insecure nervous system prefer authoritarianism?" I doubt it. But I suspect the swing to the right couldn’t have happened in the cool Britania years of the 90’s. Austerity has played its part in making more people more insecure. | |||
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"“ But calling all the people who prefer authoritarian governments as people with insecure nervous system is one of the lamest things I have heard. That's like billions of people you are talking about. There maybe some insecure people who prefer authoritarianism, yes. But preference for authoritarianism doesn't imply insecurity.” Nobody has said that all people who prefer authoritarian leadership have insecure nervous systems. Do all people who have insecure nervous system prefer authoritarianism? I doubt it. But I suspect the swing to the right couldn’t have happened in the cool Britania years of the 90’s. Austerity has played its part in making more people more insecure." I am trying to understand what's the point of that study you shared? Is it that majority of people who support authoritarianism are insecure people? Or do majority of insecure people support authoritarianism? If neither is the case, the paper basically says nothing. | |||
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"“ I doubt it. But I suspect the swing to the right couldn’t have happened in the cool Britania years of the 90’s. Austerity has played its part in making more people more insecure." Austerity? Have you seen all the brand new, massive and expensive vehicles which all the (clearly) authority supporting voters are driving? | |||
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"“ I doubt it. But I suspect the swing to the right couldn’t have happened in the cool Britania years of the 90’s. Austerity has played its part in making more people more insecure. Austerity? Have you seen all the brand new, massive and expensive vehicles which all the (clearly) authority supporting voters are driving?" An old car today is 4 or 5 years old | |||
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