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"Isn’t it more like: Woman uses car to block road during protest. Car surrounded by ICE agents. Woman driver told to get out of car. Woman driver refuses, and tries to drive away. Woman driver shot dead. Seems fair enough. She had plenty of opportunities to comply with law enforcement but chose not to." So the authorities have the right to take anybody’s life. Especially if they’re unarmed & pose no physical threat…..😄 | |||
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"Isn’t it more like: Woman uses car to block road during protest. Car surrounded by ICE agents. Woman driver told to get out of car. Woman driver refuses, and tries to drive away. Woman driver shot dead. Seems fair enough. She had plenty of opportunities to comply with law enforcement but chose not to. So the authorities have the right to take anybody’s life. Especially if they’re unarmed & pose no physical threat…..😄" She had a weapon which weighed a couple of tons and had started to use it. | |||
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"Isn’t it more like: Woman uses car to block road during protest. Car surrounded by ICE agents. Woman driver told to get out of car. Woman driver refuses, and tries to drive away. Woman driver shot dead. Seems fair enough. She had plenty of opportunities to comply with law enforcement but chose not to. So the authorities have the right to take anybody’s life. Especially if they’re unarmed & pose no physical threat…..😄 She had a weapon which weighed a couple of tons and had started to use it." Firstly - That’s not what I saw in the footage Secondly - You’re gonna take the word of Trump’s personal Gestapo? Mkay 👍🏽 | |||
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"Isn’t it more like: Woman uses car to block road during protest. Car surrounded by ICE agents. Woman driver told to get out of car. Woman driver refuses, and tries to drive away. Woman driver shot dead. Seems fair enough. She had plenty of opportunities to comply with law enforcement but chose not to. So the authorities have the right to take anybody’s life. Especially if they’re unarmed & pose no physical threat…..😄 She had a weapon which weighed a couple of tons and had started to use it. Firstly - That’s not what I saw in the footage Secondly - You’re gonna take the word of Trump’s personal Gestapo? Mkay 👍🏽" What did you see unfold in the footage you watched? | |||
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"If an armed officer in the US tells you to stop, you stop ! " Exactly this. | |||
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"The 'agent' had time to draw and aim his weapon, the car was turning away from him and he had time and space behind him to take one step back.. There was no one at risk in his vicinity that required him killing her.. He chose to use lethal force, that in itself has to be of concern.. Yes she should have stopped but was no threat before .. For Trump to say what he has when the camera (and other footage may come out) is awful and irresponsible.. " Exactly... His first response was to pull his weapon, aim his gun and shoot this woman point blank in the head. She was a US citizen, she wasn't there illegally. She hadn't done anything wrong. I'm sorry, but anyone that condones this or blames her or thinks she got what she deserves... You are completely without heart. | |||
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"She hadn't done anything wrong. " Yes, she had. It did not, however (based upon available data), warrant being shot. " I'm sorry, but anyone that condones this or blames her or thinks she got what she deserves... You are completely without heart. " Not condoning, and she didn't deserve it, but she put herself in danger and this was a possible outcome, which she could have avoided. It was pretty dumb. | |||
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"Isn’t it more like: Woman uses car to block road during protest. Car surrounded by ICE agents. Woman driver told to get out of car. Woman driver refuses, and tries to drive away. Woman driver shot dead. Seems fair enough. She had plenty of opportunities to comply with law enforcement but chose not to." So, after watching the footage again, not getting out of the car when asked is risky but if you keep still and don’t move the car may be OK. To start driving off, and to continue to do so when an armed officer points a gun at you, makes you a prime candidate for the Darwin Awards. Albeit for a short time, as I don’t think that that they are awarded posthumously. | |||
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"Isn’t it more like: Woman uses car to block road during protest. Car surrounded by ICE agents. Woman driver told to get out of car. Woman driver refuses, and tries to drive away. Woman driver shot dead. Seems fair enough. She had plenty of opportunities to comply with law enforcement but chose not to. So, after watching the footage again, not getting out of the car when asked is risky but if you keep still and don’t move the car may be OK. To start driving off, and to continue to do so when an armed officer points a gun at you, makes you a prime candidate for the Darwin Awards. Albeit for a short time, as I don’t think that that they are awarded posthumously." They are ONLY awarded posthumously! | |||
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"Isn’t it more like: Woman uses car to block road during protest. Car surrounded by ICE agents. Woman driver told to get out of car. Woman driver refuses, and tries to drive away. Woman driver shot dead. Seems fair enough. She had plenty of opportunities to comply with law enforcement but chose not to. So, after watching the footage again, not getting out of the car when asked is risky but if you keep still and don’t move the car may be OK. To start driving off, and to continue to do so when an armed officer points a gun at you, makes you a prime candidate for the Darwin Awards. Albeit for a short time, as I don’t think that that they are awarded posthumously. They are ONLY awarded posthumously!" I stand corrected. | |||
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"Could have shot out the tyres🤷♂️" Could have done nothing and witnessed a murder? 🤷♂️ I’m not saying they should have been shot dead, but they would be alive if they had complied with law enforcement instructions. They made that decision | |||
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"Jesus Christ. A lot of fucked up heartless views on this thread " Could you be more specific, so that those heartless people have a chance to shed light on their positions? | |||
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"trump is becoming the modern day hitler" How did you arrive at that conclusion from the actions of a law enforcement officer? | |||
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"The March of authoritarianism goes on." It certainly does in this country. | |||
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"trump is becoming the modern day hitler How did you arrive at that conclusion from the actions of a law enforcement officer?" the forthcoming bigger picture.... | |||
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"The March of authoritarianism goes on. It certainly does in this country. " Oh it's definitely coming... The amount of guys on FabGuys that actively want Trump as our leader (as a replacement for Starmer) is just sad. | |||
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"Jesus Christ. A lot of fucked up heartless views on this thread Could you be more specific, so that those heartless people have a chance to shed light on their positions?" You've made your view quite clear thank you | |||
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"The March of authoritarianism goes on. It certainly does in this country. Oh it's definitely coming... The amount of guys on FabGuys that actively want Trump as our leader (as a replacement for Starmer) is just sad." I’m no fan of Trump. But why is it sad to have an opinion? | |||
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"The victim's name is Renee Nicole Good." 37 years old and leaves behind a child who is now orphaned. | |||
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"Jesus Christ. A lot of fucked up heartless views on this thread Could you be more specific, so that those heartless people have a chance to shed light on their positions? You've made your view quite clear thank you" Isn't it grand, to be able to make judgements without an argument that can be debated? Presumably, you fear actual discussion for some reason? | |||
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"So many questions… actually… so many “not quite true” statements being thrown around The woman actually waived all the cars past her, you can actually see her gesture to do this! The first car did, the second car containing the ice members didn’t! She did not move her car between the first car and the second car ICE are only allowed to try an contain someone if there is a belief that the person inside the car is an illegal immigrant… I don’t think that applies if they knew she was a white woman… The story from DHS has changed from it being a specific targeted operation, to just going back to the office… if it was a targeted operation there would be no reason to initially stop as they would not have been the target The woman preformed a not very good 3 point turn, you can see that from the tyres to the person ICE claimed was hit… If you are saying the person in front was in fear of their life… then you can argue shot 1 which went through the bottom corner of the passenger window was legal…. That one missed, shots 2 and 3 would have been to his side as they went through the side window opening… at that point his life would not have been in danger They did not allow any medical assistance for the then unknown driver, a person on scene said they were a doctor and was not allowed through, ems took 15 minutes to get there, could not get through due to ice vehicles blocking the road The person who shot the victim left the scene in a car within 90 seconds of what happened Noem and trump’s version of what happened does in no way correlate to what is scene in the video, and what witnesses to the incident say happened It’s full on damage control and the easiest way to do that is to slander the victim because they can’t answer back… But it’s one of those situations where you are being told to not believe your eyes" Without trying to defend ICE, DHS or the US administration... (Not a huge fan of any of them) Your post makes it seem like a totally innocent woman was making a three-point turn, when some murderous ICE agents accosted get, then shot her maliciously and absconded, trying to ensure that she bled out to death. | |||
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"Jesus Christ. A lot of fucked up heartless views on this thread Could you be more specific, so that those heartless people have a chance to shed light on their positions? You've made your view quite clear thank you Isn't it grand, to be able to make judgements without an argument that can be debated? Presumably, you fear actual discussion for some reason?" I've seen your discussion and debate plenty of times. | |||
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"So many questions… actually… so many “not quite true” statements being thrown around The woman actually waived all the cars past her, you can actually see her gesture to do this! The first car did, the second car containing the ice members didn’t! She did not move her car between the first car and the second car ICE are only allowed to try an contain someone if there is a belief that the person inside the car is an illegal immigrant… I don’t think that applies if they knew she was a white woman… The story from DHS has changed from it being a specific targeted operation, to just going back to the office… if it was a targeted operation there would be no reason to initially stop as they would not have been the target The woman preformed a not very good 3 point turn, you can see that from the tyres to the person ICE claimed was hit… If you are saying the person in front was in fear of their life… then you can argue shot 1 which went through the bottom corner of the passenger window was legal…. That one missed, shots 2 and 3 would have been to his side as they went through the side window opening… at that point his life would not have been in danger They did not allow any medical assistance for the then unknown driver, a person on scene said they were a doctor and was not allowed through, ems took 15 minutes to get there, could not get through due to ice vehicles blocking the road The person who shot the victim left the scene in a car within 90 seconds of what happened Noem and trump’s version of what happened does in no way correlate to what is scene in the video, and what witnesses to the incident say happened It’s full on damage control and the easiest way to do that is to slander the victim because they can’t answer back… But it’s one of those situations where you are being told to not believe your eyes Without trying to defend ICE, DHS or the US administration... (Not a huge fan of any of them) Your post makes it seem like a totally innocent woman was making a three-point turn, when some murderous ICE agents accosted get, then shot her maliciously and absconded, trying to ensure that she bled out to death." Even on an incomplete picture this is a rather ridiculous representation of events. It's quite possible to believe that the Office acted very wrongly, and should be charged if appropriate, and also that Ms Good acted unwisely (and illegally) in not stopping when instructed to. | |||
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"Jesus Christ. A lot of fucked up heartless views on this thread Could you be more specific, so that those heartless people have a chance to shed light on their positions? You've made your view quite clear thank you Isn't it grand, to be able to make judgements without an argument that can be debated? Presumably, you fear actual discussion for some reason? I've seen your discussion and debate plenty of times. " Fair enough. There's definitely a reason to only discuss and debate with people who share your views. | |||
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"Jesus Christ. A lot of fucked up heartless views on this thread Could you be more specific, so that those heartless people have a chance to shed light on their positions? You've made your view quite clear thank you Isn't it grand, to be able to make judgements without an argument that can be debated? Presumably, you fear actual discussion for some reason? I've seen your discussion and debate plenty of times. Fair enough. There's definitely a reason to only discuss and debate with people who share your views." Your presumptions, and subtle deliberate misinterpretations of alternative perspectives do not invite engagement in rational debate. Good day | |||
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"Jesus Christ. A lot of fucked up heartless views on this thread Could you be more specific, so that those heartless people have a chance to shed light on their positions? You've made your view quite clear thank you Isn't it grand, to be able to make judgements without an argument that can be debated? Presumably, you fear actual discussion for some reason? I've seen your discussion and debate plenty of times. Fair enough. There's definitely a reason to only discuss and debate with people who share your views." Doesn’t matter what the facts are, what the stats say, what the evidence is, all that matters is the ideology is stuck to. And if all else fails, they can do a bit of name calling while patting each other on the back | |||
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"Jesus Christ. A lot of fucked up heartless views on this thread Could you be more specific, so that those heartless people have a chance to shed light on their positions? You've made your view quite clear thank you Isn't it grand, to be able to make judgements without an argument that can be debated? Presumably, you fear actual discussion for some reason? I've seen your discussion and debate plenty of times. Fair enough. There's definitely a reason to only discuss and debate with people who share your views. Doesn’t matter what the facts are, what the stats say, what the evidence is, all that matters is the ideology is stuck to. And if all else fails, they can do a bit of name calling while patting each other on the back " The woman was shot dead for what basically amounted to refusing to stop for a traffic stop... He fired his gun at this woman three times at point blank range... that's intent to kill. Imagine being him, holding the gun at this woman who was unarmed and pulling the trigger three times. I like to think I'm usually good at viewing things from both sides of the argument and adopting a pragmatic and centrist position... but I can't understand how anyone can think this is fine. I don't want to accuse anyone of being obtuse, but it does feel that way. | |||
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"What the hell is an ICE agent?" Federal agency: Immigration and Customs Enforcement. | |||
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"Could have shot out the tyres🤷♂️ Could have done nothing and witnessed a murder? 🤷♂️ I’m not saying they should have been shot dead, but they would be alive if they had complied with law enforcement instructions. They made that decision " was it even a police officer though. From what I saw, if I was a woman in a car by myself. I would have questioned it. She didn't deserve to be shot. Arrested perhaps even that is questionable. The guy that shot her had so many other options. | |||
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" The woman was shot dead for what basically amounted to refusing to stop for a traffic stop... " This is tragically common in the US: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-64458041 " ...but I can't understand how anyone can think this is fine. " Nobody (on here), really, is saying that it's fine. Because it isn't. | |||
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"Jesus Christ. A lot of fucked up heartless views on this thread Could you be more specific, so that those heartless people have a chance to shed light on their positions? You've made your view quite clear thank you Isn't it grand, to be able to make judgements without an argument that can be debated? Presumably, you fear actual discussion for some reason? I've seen your discussion and debate plenty of times. Fair enough. There's definitely a reason to only discuss and debate with people who share your views. Doesn’t matter what the facts are, what the stats say, what the evidence is, all that matters is the ideology is stuck to. And if all else fails, they can do a bit of name calling while patting each other on the back The woman was shot dead for what basically amounted to refusing to stop for a traffic stop... He fired his gun at this woman three times at point blank range... that's intent to kill. Imagine being him, holding the gun at this woman who was unarmed and pulling the trigger three times. I like to think I'm usually good at viewing things from both sides of the argument and adopting a pragmatic and centrist position... but I can't understand how anyone can think this is fine. I don't want to accuse anyone of being obtuse, but it does feel that way. " Why did she refuse to stop? What was she hiding? Not what’s known now, what was known at the time? Sorry but if someone holding a gun says “stop or I’ll shoot”, and that’s pretty much the blanket position in the US, then not stopping opening you up to getting shot. It’s that simple. | |||
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"Jesus Christ. A lot of fucked up heartless views on this thread Could you be more specific, so that those heartless people have a chance to shed light on their positions? You've made your view quite clear thank you Isn't it grand, to be able to make judgements without an argument that can be debated? Presumably, you fear actual discussion for some reason? I've seen your discussion and debate plenty of times. Fair enough. There's definitely a reason to only discuss and debate with people who share your views. Doesn’t matter what the facts are, what the stats say, what the evidence is, all that matters is the ideology is stuck to. And if all else fails, they can do a bit of name calling while patting each other on the back The woman was shot dead for what basically amounted to refusing to stop for a traffic stop... He fired his gun at this woman three times at point blank range... that's intent to kill. Imagine being him, holding the gun at this woman who was unarmed and pulling the trigger three times. I like to think I'm usually good at viewing things from both sides of the argument and adopting a pragmatic and centrist position... but I can't understand how anyone can think this is fine. I don't want to accuse anyone of being obtuse, but it does feel that way. Why did she refuse to stop? What was she hiding? Not what’s known now, what was known at the time? Sorry but if someone holding a gun says “stop or I’ll shoot”, and that’s pretty much the blanket position in the US, then not stopping opening you up to getting shot. It’s that simple. " He did not say stop or I'll shoot... He gave her zero warning of his intentions. She pulled away, he stepped forward pulled his gun and fired three shots at her. Not even a warning shot fired in the air. I guess from his perspective, she did have a very dangerous array of childrens toys in clear view... Which for all he knew could be used with deadly force. | |||
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"What the hell is an ICE agent?" Immigration and Customs Enforcement | |||
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"City Officials have confirmed Renee Good was a volunteer against ICE arrests, which is absolutely legal and was her right to do so. It has been claimed she had repeatedly obstructed officers and been abusive so its not clear that this was just a traffic stop. The video does appear to show her actively attempting to block the road but perhaps this is misleading." It is… the bit before shows she just happened to be there and you can see her hand out the window physically waving the cars through | |||
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"If an armed officer in the US tells you to stop, you stop ! " No, that’s not the law and never has been. Under the forth amendment of the US constitution, you don’t need to obey any officer who tells you to stop, even if you’re running if they don’t have probable cause. She was driving away in her own car, wasn’t going for anyone and this thug (probably didn’t even pass high school or ever read a book, as most ICE fascist don’t) who Trump gave a badge to, murdered her. Do some basic research | |||
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"If an armed officer in the US tells you to stop, you stop ! No, that’s not the law and never has been. Under the forth amendment of the US constitution, you don’t need to obey any officer who tells you to stop, even if you’re running if they don’t have probable cause. She was driving away in her own car, wasn’t going for anyone and this thug (probably didn’t even pass high school or ever read a book, as most ICE fascist don’t) who Trump gave a badge to, murdered her. Do some basic research " wow you seem to know a lot about the education of law enforcement in another country,like the other poster said if the old bill in America are pointing guns and you and telling you to stop it may be a good idea to listen to them | |||
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"If an armed officer in the US tells you to stop, you stop ! No, that’s not the law and never has been. Under the forth amendment of the US constitution, you don’t need to obey any officer who tells you to stop, even if you’re running if they don’t have probable cause. She was driving away in her own car, wasn’t going for anyone and this thug (probably didn’t even pass high school or ever read a book, as most ICE fascist don’t) who Trump gave a badge to, murdered her. Do some basic research wow you seem to know a lot about the education of law enforcement in another country,like the other poster said if the old bill in America are pointing guns and you and telling you to stop it may be a good idea to listen to them" He didn't say stop... He just pulled his gun and started shooting. She had zero warning he was about to shoot her three times | |||
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" wow you seem to know a lot about the education of law enforcement in another country,like the other poster said if the old bill in America are pointing guns and you and telling you to stop it may be a good idea to listen to them" It’s not that deep and it’s a narrow-minded and ignorant mindset. Again, you do a simple search anywhere and bother to have any clue what you’re talking about before commenting. You’d know there’s a system that’s meant to be in place to prevent the exact kind of thing as this. A system where the state thug with a gun can just make unlawful commands and if you don’t listen, he murders you. It’s called the US constitution. If that’s so hard to research, go and use Grok. | |||
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"City Officials have confirmed Renee Good was a volunteer against ICE arrests, which is absolutely legal and was her right to do so. It has been claimed she had repeatedly obstructed officers and been abusive so its not clear that this was just a traffic stop. The video does appear to show her actively attempting to block the road but perhaps this is misleading. It is… the bit before shows she just happened to be there and you can see her hand out the window physically waving the cars through " The waving the cars through is what caught my eye. Her car seemed to be in an awkward position, and the first ICE car that drove through stopped just past her car and second ICE car pulled up to her car and both cars were then exited, with the officer that shot coming from the first car. I'm not sure if she knew he was there as he had passed prior and her focus must have been on the second car and occupants approaching. There also feels like something happened just before the waving through, for multiple cameras to be recording the same thing | |||
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"City Officials have confirmed Renee Good was a volunteer against ICE arrests, which is absolutely legal and was her right to do so. It has been claimed she had repeatedly obstructed officers and been abusive so its not clear that this was just a traffic stop. The video does appear to show her actively attempting to block the road but perhaps this is misleading. It is… the bit before shows she just happened to be there and you can see her hand out the window physically waving the cars through The waving the cars through is what caught my eye. Her car seemed to be in an awkward position, and the first ICE car that drove through stopped just past her car and second ICE car pulled up to her car and both cars were then exited, with the officer that shot coming from the first car. I'm not sure if she knew he was there as he had passed prior and her focus must have been on the second car and occupants approaching. There also feels like something happened just before the waving through, for multiple cameras to be recording the same thing" As always the best thing is to wait for the fullest possible picture before reaching a conclusion. | |||
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" wow you seem to know a lot about the education of law enforcement in another country,like the other poster said if the old bill in America are pointing guns and you and telling you to stop it may be a good idea to listen to them It’s not that deep and it’s a narrow-minded and ignorant mindset. Again, you do a simple search anywhere and bother to have any clue what you’re talking about before commenting. You’d know there’s a system that’s meant to be in place to prevent the exact kind of thing as this. A system where the state thug with a gun can just make unlawful commands and if you don’t listen, he murders you. It’s called the US constitution. If that’s so hard to research, go and use Grok. " you still haven't answered how you know the education of u.s law enforcement and them not being able to read or are you just throwing insults out about people you know nothing about? That's the sort of thing someone who is emotionally immature does,and why would I use a.i? If I want to know something I will read a paper not have a computer telling me what to think,anyway sweetheart I'm bored of talking to you now, too da loo | |||
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"If an armed officer in the US tells you to stop, you stop ! No, that’s not the law and never has been. Under the forth amendment of the US constitution, you don’t need to obey any officer who tells you to stop, even if you’re running if they don’t have probable cause. She was driving away in her own car, wasn’t going for anyone and this thug (probably didn’t even pass high school or ever read a book, as most ICE fascist don’t) who Trump gave a badge to, murdered her. Do some basic research " You are interpreting this wrongly. If a police officer asks you to stop, and when you do they had no probable cause, you can then leave and take it further. To assume an officer doesn't have probable cause, ignoring them and trying to leave, "you have made an assumption" that could create a situation that doesn't end well. | |||
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"If an armed officer in the US tells you to stop, you stop ! No, that’s not the law and never has been. Under the forth amendment of the US constitution, you don’t need to obey any officer who tells you to stop, even if you’re running if they don’t have probable cause. She was driving away in her own car, wasn’t going for anyone and this thug (probably didn’t even pass high school or ever read a book, as most ICE fascist don’t) who Trump gave a badge to, murdered her. Do some basic research wow you seem to know a lot about the education of law enforcement in another country,like the other poster said if the old bill in America are pointing guns and you and telling you to stop it may be a good idea to listen to them He didn't say stop... He just pulled his gun and started shooting. She had zero warning he was about to shoot her three times " to be honest with you I really don't care what Americans do to each other the whole lot of them are retarded | |||
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"City Officials have confirmed Renee Good was a volunteer against ICE arrests, which is absolutely legal and was her right to do so. It has been claimed she had repeatedly obstructed officers and been abusive so its not clear that this was just a traffic stop. The video does appear to show her actively attempting to block the road but perhaps this is misleading. It is… the bit before shows she just happened to be there and you can see her hand out the window physically waving the cars through The waving the cars through is what caught my eye. Her car seemed to be in an awkward position, and the first ICE car that drove through stopped just past her car and second ICE car pulled up to her car and both cars were then exited, with the officer that shot coming from the first car. I'm not sure if she knew he was there as he had passed prior and her focus must have been on the second car and occupants approaching. There also feels like something happened just before the waving through, for multiple cameras to be recording the same thing As always the best thing is to wait for the fullest possible picture before reaching a conclusion." I'm pretty sure I didn't come to a conclusion  | |||
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"City Officials have confirmed Renee Good was a volunteer against ICE arrests, which is absolutely legal and was her right to do so. It has been claimed she had repeatedly obstructed officers and been abusive so its not clear that this was just a traffic stop. The video does appear to show her actively attempting to block the road but perhaps this is misleading. It is… the bit before shows she just happened to be there and you can see her hand out the window physically waving the cars through The waving the cars through is what caught my eye. Her car seemed to be in an awkward position, and the first ICE car that drove through stopped just past her car and second ICE car pulled up to her car and both cars were then exited, with the officer that shot coming from the first car. I'm not sure if she knew he was there as he had passed prior and her focus must have been on the second car and occupants approaching. There also feels like something happened just before the waving through, for multiple cameras to be recording the same thing As always the best thing is to wait for the fullest possible picture before reaching a conclusion." Agreed but its sort of not like a normal death by law enforcement.. One might expect that if it was a City police officer the bodycam footage would be released if it showed the officer had justifiable cause in order to quell online rumours and nowadays AI generated false narratives.. Given both the heads of HSE and the FBI are politically motivated appointments by Trump and the latter is doing the investigation I'm not sure they will release anything.. In fact I'm not convinced given what's already been falsely said by Trump and the HSE head about what took place that there will be as full an investigation as we've seen recently whenever a City police officer acts in the same way.. Will gladly say in here I was wrong if anything comes from this but I very much doubt the sand rigour will be applied.. | |||
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" wow you seem to know a lot about the education of law enforcement in another country,like the other poster said if the old bill in America are pointing guns and you and telling you to stop it may be a good idea to listen to them It’s not that deep and it’s a narrow-minded and ignorant mindset. Again, you do a simple search anywhere and bother to have any clue what you’re talking about before commenting. You’d know there’s a system that’s meant to be in place to prevent the exact kind of thing as this. A system where the state thug with a gun can just make unlawful commands and if you don’t listen, he murders you. It’s called the US constitution. If that’s so hard to research, go and use Grok. you still haven't answered how you know the education of u.s law enforcement and them not being able to read or are you just throwing insults out about people you know nothing about? That's the sort of thing someone who is emotionally immature does,and why would I use a.i? If I want to know something I will read a paper not have a computer telling me what to think,anyway sweetheart I'm bored of talking to you now, too da loo" Ummm, I know because I did this thing called reading? Then why’d you ask | |||
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"If an armed officer in the US tells you to stop, you stop ! No, that’s not the law and never has been. Under the forth amendment of the US constitution, you don’t need to obey any officer who tells you to stop, even if you’re running if they don’t have probable cause. She was driving away in her own car, wasn’t going for anyone and this thug (probably didn’t even pass high school or ever read a book, as most ICE fascist don’t) who Trump gave a badge to, murdered her. Do some basic research You are interpreting this wrongly. If a police officer asks you to stop, and when you do they had no probable cause, you can then leave and take it further. To assume an officer doesn't have probable cause, ignoring them and trying to leave, "you have made an assumption" that could create a situation that doesn't end well. " Once again, you clearly don’t understand the US constitution, or bother to read it. Under the fourth amendment, you cannot be detained unless there are reasonable grounds. Otherwise it’s unlawful. What you’re appealing to, is the same logic, that if anyone with a gun comes up to you, just do why they say. Which is insanity as ICE, fascists that they are, are still meant to obey the US constitution. But that ignores the clear reality that this ICE thug just straight up shot this woman as she was driving away. | |||
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" Under the fourth amendment, you cannot be detained unless there are reasonable grounds. Otherwise it’s unlawful. " Full text if the fourth amendment: The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized. More content: https://www.uscourts.gov/about-federal-courts/educational-resources/about-educational-outreach/activity-resources/what-does-fourth-amendment-mean#:~:text=The%20Constitution%2C%20through%20the%20Fourth,deemed%20unreasonable%20under%20the%20law. "The Constitution, through the Fourth Amendment, protects people from unreasonable searches and seizures by the government. The Fourth Amendment, however, is not a guarantee against all searches and seizures, but only those that are deemed unreasonable under the law." | |||
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" Under the fourth amendment, you cannot be detained unless there are reasonable grounds. Otherwise it’s unlawful. Full text if the fourth amendment: The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized. More content: https://www.uscourts.gov/about-federal-courts/educational-resources/about-educational-outreach/activity-resources/what-does-fourth-amendment-mean#:~:text=The%20Constitution%2C%20through%20the%20Fourth,deemed%20unreasonable%20under%20the%20law. "The Constitution, through the Fourth Amendment, protects people from unreasonable searches and seizures by the government. The Fourth Amendment, however, is not a guarantee against all searches and seizures, but only those that are deemed unreasonable under the law."" So what was the probable cause? A woman, in her own car, not targeting anyone, not directing her vehicle at anyone, getting shot driver side. Or is this just the thing now when it’s as plain as day, its now just power comes from the barrel of a gun. Because that’s not in the constitution, nor in any western value that these Trump maniacs claim to be restoring. | |||
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"City Officials have confirmed Renee Good was a volunteer against ICE arrests, which is absolutely legal and was her right to do so. It has been claimed she had repeatedly obstructed officers and been abusive so its not clear that this was just a traffic stop. The video does appear to show her actively attempting to block the road but perhaps this is misleading. It is… the bit before shows she just happened to be there and you can see her hand out the window physically waving the cars through The waving the cars through is what caught my eye. Her car seemed to be in an awkward position, and the first ICE car that drove through stopped just past her car and second ICE car pulled up to her car and both cars were then exited, with the officer that shot coming from the first car. I'm not sure if she knew he was there as he had passed prior and her focus must have been on the second car and occupants approaching. There also feels like something happened just before the waving through, for multiple cameras to be recording the same thing As always the best thing is to wait for the fullest possible picture before reaching a conclusion. Agreed but its sort of not like a normal death by law enforcement.. One might expect that if it was a City police officer the bodycam footage would be released if it showed the officer had justifiable cause in order to quell online rumours and nowadays AI generated false narratives.. Given both the heads of HSE and the FBI are politically motivated appointments by Trump and the latter is doing the investigation I'm not sure they will release anything.. In fact I'm not convinced given what's already been falsely said by Trump and the HSE head about what took place that there will be as full an investigation as we've seen recently whenever a City police officer acts in the same way.. Will gladly say in here I was wrong if anything comes from this but I very much doubt the sand rigour will be applied.." ICE agents are not required to have body cams.. which is why every controversial incident that has been reported has relied on mobile phone footage… In this case the interesting thing is that one of the ICE officers does appear to be holding a mobile phone.. so if that footage was released it would help ( me being cynical if it was backing what Trump and noem were suggesting that footage would have been released by now) If you want a training comparison ICE agents get 13 weeks training, uk police officers have to go through 3 years of training | |||
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" Under the fourth amendment, you cannot be detained unless there are reasonable grounds. Otherwise it’s unlawful. Full text if the fourth amendment: The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized. More content: https://www.uscourts.gov/about-federal-courts/educational-resources/about-educational-outreach/activity-resources/what-does-fourth-amendment-mean#:~:text=The%20Constitution%2C%20through%20the%20Fourth,deemed%20unreasonable%20under%20the%20law. "The Constitution, through the Fourth Amendment, protects people from unreasonable searches and seizures by the government. The Fourth Amendment, however, is not a guarantee against all searches and seizures, but only those that are deemed unreasonable under the law." So what was the probable cause? A woman, in her own car, not targeting anyone, not directing her vehicle at anyone, getting shot driver side. Or is this just the thing now when it’s as plain as day, its now just power comes from the barrel of a gun. Because that’s not in the constitution, nor in any western value that these Trump maniacs claim to be restoring. " No argument. As footage emerges, the ICE position looks closer to criminal. | |||
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"trump is becoming the modern day hitler How did you arrive at that conclusion from the actions of a law enforcement officer?" Maybe Hitler didn't commit every offence himself but ecouraged others to do his dirty work? Does that help explain any similarity? | |||
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"What the hell is an ICE agent? Federal agency: Immigration and Customs Enforcement. " Thanks, and also to Fabio further down. I guess that, though written as ICE, it needs to be pronounced 'arse'.. | |||
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"City Officials have confirmed Renee Good was a volunteer against ICE arrests, which is absolutely legal and was her right to do so. It has been claimed she had repeatedly obstructed officers and been abusive so its not clear that this was just a traffic stop. The video does appear to show her actively attempting to block the road but perhaps this is misleading. It is… the bit before shows she just happened to be there and you can see her hand out the window physically waving the cars through The waving the cars through is what caught my eye. Her car seemed to be in an awkward position, and the first ICE car that drove through stopped just past her car and second ICE car pulled up to her car and both cars were then exited, with the officer that shot coming from the first car. I'm not sure if she knew he was there as he had passed prior and her focus must have been on the second car and occupants approaching. There also feels like something happened just before the waving through, for multiple cameras to be recording the same thing As always the best thing is to wait for the fullest possible picture before reaching a conclusion. Agreed but its sort of not like a normal death by law enforcement.. One might expect that if it was a City police officer the bodycam footage would be released if it showed the officer had justifiable cause in order to quell online rumours and nowadays AI generated false narratives.. Given both the heads of HSE and the FBI are politically motivated appointments by Trump and the latter is doing the investigation I'm not sure they will release anything.. In fact I'm not convinced given what's already been falsely said by Trump and the HSE head about what took place that there will be as full an investigation as we've seen recently whenever a City police officer acts in the same way.. Will gladly say in here I was wrong if anything comes from this but I very much doubt the sand rigour will be applied.. ICE agents are not required to have body cams.. which is why every controversial incident that has been reported has relied on mobile phone footage… In this case the interesting thing is that one of the ICE officers does appear to be holding a mobile phone.. so if that footage was released it would help ( me being cynical if it was backing what Trump and noem were suggesting that footage would have been released by now) If you want a training comparison ICE agents get 13 weeks training, uk police officers have to go through 3 years of training " And the Minnesota investigators for a capital offence if proven are being shut out.. Dangerous times.. | |||
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"City Officials have confirmed Renee Good was a volunteer against ICE arrests, which is absolutely legal and was her right to do so. It has been claimed she had repeatedly obstructed officers and been abusive so its not clear that this was just a traffic stop. The video does appear to show her actively attempting to block the road but perhaps this is misleading. It is… the bit before shows she just happened to be there and you can see her hand out the window physically waving the cars through The waving the cars through is what caught my eye. Her car seemed to be in an awkward position, and the first ICE car that drove through stopped just past her car and second ICE car pulled up to her car and both cars were then exited, with the officer that shot coming from the first car. I'm not sure if she knew he was there as he had passed prior and her focus must have been on the second car and occupants approaching. There also feels like something happened just before the waving through, for multiple cameras to be recording the same thing As always the best thing is to wait for the fullest possible picture before reaching a conclusion. Agreed but its sort of not like a normal death by law enforcement.. One might expect that if it was a City police officer the bodycam footage would be released if it showed the officer had justifiable cause in order to quell online rumours and nowadays AI generated false narratives.. Given both the heads of HSE and the FBI are politically motivated appointments by Trump and the latter is doing the investigation I'm not sure they will release anything.. In fact I'm not convinced given what's already been falsely said by Trump and the HSE head about what took place that there will be as full an investigation as we've seen recently whenever a City police officer acts in the same way.. Will gladly say in here I was wrong if anything comes from this but I very much doubt the sand rigour will be applied.. ICE agents are not required to have body cams.. which is why every controversial incident that has been reported has relied on mobile phone footage… In this case the interesting thing is that one of the ICE officers does appear to be holding a mobile phone.. so if that footage was released it would help ( me being cynical if it was backing what Trump and noem were suggesting that footage would have been released by now) If you want a training comparison ICE agents get 13 weeks training, uk police officers have to go through 3 years of training And the Minnesota investigators for a capital offence if proven are being shut out.. Dangerous times.." Trump will probably give the agent who killed her a medal  | |||
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"The wanna be orange stuff said the ice officer was almost ran over and needed to defend himself, and that he's recovering in hospital..." Trump knows he can say whatever he wants and no one will stop him, and sadly millions of people will believe anything he says. Even when there's video evidence from multiple sources that completely contradict him. | |||
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"I think the Trump administration has set back human rights 50 years, I'm not sure when this madness will end, I wonder how the average American voters view his current term in office? " I'm curious to see if MAGA will survive without him | |||
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"I think the Trump administration has set back human rights 50 years, I'm not sure when this madness will end, I wonder how the average American voters view his current term in office? " You're old enough to remember when over 80 civilians were killed by the FBI in the Waco siege, under a Democratic President and Attorney General with little accountability. The US is a country with a strong firearm culture among civilians and law enforcement officials. That didn't start and won't end under Trump, its simply that this awful death is being exploited for political reasons by left and right. | |||
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"City Officials have confirmed Renee Good was a volunteer against ICE arrests, which is absolutely legal and was her right to do so. It has been claimed she had repeatedly obstructed officers and been abusive so its not clear that this was just a traffic stop. The video does appear to show her actively attempting to block the road but perhaps this is misleading. It is… the bit before shows she just happened to be there and you can see her hand out the window physically waving the cars through The waving the cars through is what caught my eye. Her car seemed to be in an awkward position, and the first ICE car that drove through stopped just past her car and second ICE car pulled up to her car and both cars were then exited, with the officer that shot coming from the first car. I'm not sure if she knew he was there as he had passed prior and her focus must have been on the second car and occupants approaching. There also feels like something happened just before the waving through, for multiple cameras to be recording the same thing As always the best thing is to wait for the fullest possible picture before reaching a conclusion. Agreed but its sort of not like a normal death by law enforcement.. One might expect that if it was a City police officer the bodycam footage would be released if it showed the officer had justifiable cause in order to quell online rumours and nowadays AI generated false narratives.. Given both the heads of HSE and the FBI are politically motivated appointments by Trump and the latter is doing the investigation I'm not sure they will release anything.. In fact I'm not convinced given what's already been falsely said by Trump and the HSE head about what took place that there will be as full an investigation as we've seen recently whenever a City police officer acts in the same way.. Will gladly say in here I was wrong if anything comes from this but I very much doubt the sand rigour will be applied.. ICE agents are not required to have body cams.. which is why every controversial incident that has been reported has relied on mobile phone footage… In this case the interesting thing is that one of the ICE officers does appear to be holding a mobile phone.. so if that footage was released it would help ( me being cynical if it was backing what Trump and noem were suggesting that footage would have been released by now) If you want a training comparison ICE agents get 13 weeks training, uk police officers have to go through 3 years of training And the Minnesota investigators for a capital offence if proven are being shut out.. Dangerous times.." Reason for that is that it scuppers any way the state themselves could try and bring a case against the individual that trump in effect could not pardon them for.. And if they did try they are going to try and use federal immunity as a defence | |||
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"Isn’t it more like: Woman uses car to block road during protest. Car surrounded by ICE agents. Woman driver told to get out of car. Woman driver refuses, and tries to drive away. Woman driver shot dead. Seems fair enough. She had plenty of opportunities to comply with law enforcement but chose not to." | |||
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"Isn’t it more like: Woman uses car to block road during protest. Car surrounded by ICE agents. Woman driver told to get out of car. Woman driver refuses, and tries to drive away. Woman driver shot dead. Seems fair enough. She had plenty of opportunities to comply with law enforcement but chose not to. So the authorities have the right to take anybody’s life. Especially if they’re unarmed & pose no physical threat…..😄 She had a weapon which weighed a couple of tons and had started to use it." | |||
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" Even when there's video evidence from multiple sources that completely contradict him." The correct term is "alternative facts". | |||
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"I think the Trump administration has set back human rights 50 years, I'm not sure when this madness will end, I wonder how the average American voters view his current term in office? You're old enough to remember when over 80 civilians were killed by the FBI in the Waco siege, under a Democratic President and Attorney General with little accountability. The US is a country with a strong firearm culture among civilians and law enforcement officials. That didn't start and won't end under Trump, its simply that this awful death is being exploited for political reasons by left and right." Waco in some ways was a planned ending by the leader David Koresh ? It was how he wanted it to end and no doubt some of his senior cult members, clearly there were a lot of innocents which sadly seems to be the way such things go and not just in America.. The clear and obvious difference being many of the Branch Davidians were heavily armed with military grade weaponry, trained in their use .. The lady killed by the ice guy, unlawfully and without justification in my opinion was a normal citizen who just happens to be of the opposite political view to the President.. The element of wrong on so many levels is huge in the latter.. | |||
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"I think the Trump administration has set back human rights 50 years, I'm not sure when this madness will end, I wonder how the average American voters view his current term in office? You're old enough to remember when over 80 civilians were killed by the FBI in the Waco siege, under a Democratic President and Attorney General with little accountability. The US is a country with a strong firearm culture among civilians and law enforcement officials. That didn't start and won't end under Trump, its simply that this awful death is being exploited for political reasons by left and right. Waco in some ways was a planned ending by the leader David Koresh ? It was how he wanted it to end and no doubt some of his senior cult members, clearly there were a lot of innocents which sadly seems to be the way such things go and not just in America.. The clear and obvious difference being many of the Branch Davidians were heavily armed with military grade weaponry, trained in their use .. The lady killed by the ice guy, unlawfully and without justification in my opinion was a normal citizen who just happens to be of the opposite political view to the President.. The element of wrong on so many levels is huge in the latter.. " The FBI's actions at Waco were directly ordered by AG Janet Reno with approval from Bill Clinton. I don't think even the fiercest critic of Trump believes he directly ordered the shooting of Renee Good. | |||
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" Even when there's video evidence from multiple sources that completely contradict him. The correct term is "alternative facts"." No... In this instance Trump outright lied. | |||
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"I think the Trump administration has set back human rights 50 years, I'm not sure when this madness will end, I wonder how the average American voters view his current term in office? You're old enough to remember when over 80 civilians were killed by the FBI in the Waco siege, under a Democratic President and Attorney General with little accountability. The US is a country with a strong firearm culture among civilians and law enforcement officials. That didn't start and won't end under Trump, its simply that this awful death is being exploited for political reasons by left and right. Waco in some ways was a planned ending by the leader David Koresh ? It was how he wanted it to end and no doubt some of his senior cult members, clearly there were a lot of innocents which sadly seems to be the way such things go and not just in America.. The clear and obvious difference being many of the Branch Davidians were heavily armed with military grade weaponry, trained in their use .. The lady killed by the ice guy, unlawfully and without justification in my opinion was a normal citizen who just happens to be of the opposite political view to the President.. The element of wrong on so many levels is huge in the latter.. The FBI's actions at Waco were directly ordered by AG Janet Reno with approval from Bill Clinton. I don't think even the fiercest critic of Trump believes he directly ordered the shooting of Renee Good." They were faced with a 51 day stand off and the potential for a mass suicide so what else could they do but at least try and try to get some out .. They released 35 and 9 escaped during the attempt .. BTW not once have I said Trump directly ordered the shooting so no idea why your trying to insinuate that? | |||
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"Isn’t it more like: Woman uses car to block road during protest. Car surrounded by ICE agents. Woman driver told to get out of car. Woman driver refuses, and tries to drive away. Woman driver shot dead. Seems fair enough. She had plenty of opportunities to comply with law enforcement but chose not to." They hate the true facts 👍 | |||
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"Isn’t it more like: Woman uses car to block road during protest. Car surrounded by ICE agents. Woman driver told to get out of car. Woman driver refuses, and tries to drive away. Woman driver shot dead. Seems fair enough. She had plenty of opportunities to comply with law enforcement but chose not to. They hate the true facts 👍" Who's they? | |||
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"The 'agent' had time to draw and aim his weapon, the car was turning away from him and he had time and space behind him to take one step back.. There was no one at risk in his vicinity that required him killing her.. He chose to use lethal force, that in itself has to be of concern.. Yes she should have stopped but was no threat before .. For Trump to say what he has when the camera (and other footage may come out) is awful and irresponsible.. Exactly... His first response was to pull his weapon, aim his gun and shoot this woman point blank in the head. She was a US citizen, she wasn't there illegally. She hadn't done anything wrong. I'm sorry, but anyone that condones this or blames her or thinks she got what she deserves... You are completely without heart. " Simple option comply with a simple request, and why anybody wants to support illegal immigration is beyond me | |||
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"The 'agent' had time to draw and aim his weapon, the car was turning away from him and he had time and space behind him to take one step back.. There was no one at risk in his vicinity that required him killing her.. He chose to use lethal force, that in itself has to be of concern.. Yes she should have stopped but was no threat before .. For Trump to say what he has when the camera (and other footage may come out) is awful and irresponsible.. Exactly... His first response was to pull his weapon, aim his gun and shoot this woman point blank in the head. She was a US citizen, she wasn't there illegally. She hadn't done anything wrong. I'm sorry, but anyone that condones this or blames her or thinks she got what she deserves... You are completely without heart. Simple option comply with a simple request, and why anybody wants to support illegal immigration is beyond me" Comply or get shot to death... That's your view. Completely without heart. | |||
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" Even when there's video evidence from multiple sources that completely contradict him. The correct term is "alternative facts". No... In this instance Trump outright lied." https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alternative_facts | |||
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" Even when there's video evidence from multiple sources that completely contradict him. The correct term is "alternative facts". No... In this instance Trump outright lied. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alternative_facts" I see, thank you x | |||
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"The officer made a split second decision whilst being hit by the car, training is if in defence of himself or others he can use lethal force. SCOTUS voted 9-0 in favour in 2014 of using how many rounds it takes to subdue someone. Its a poor situation, but she reversed so was attempting to flee, they are entitled to be infront of the vehicle. Then went forward and hit the officer (who just last year was dragged a considerable distance on a car and hospitalised) who judged in a split second decision to fire. Fired 1 round in the windscreen that likely killed her. Its not murder, it was self defence. She went to agitate and put herself in that situation. I feel for her son." No he didnt, the footage clearly shows he drew his weapon before tge car was close to him.. He had time to step one pace back.. Remove himself from the possibility of the car hitting him .. He chose to draw his weapon and fire three rounds at close range at the driver, he had several options in the short time the incident took.. He only chose to kill.. | |||
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"Jesus Christ. A lot of fucked up heartless views on this thread Could you be more specific, so that those heartless people have a chance to shed light on their positions? You've made your view quite clear thank you Isn't it grand, to be able to make judgements without an argument that can be debated? Presumably, you fear actual discussion for some reason? I've seen your discussion and debate plenty of times. Fair enough. There's definitely a reason to only discuss and debate with people who share your views. Doesn’t matter what the facts are, what the stats say, what the evidence is, all that matters is the ideology is stuck to. And if all else fails, they can do a bit of name calling while patting each other on the back The woman was shot dead for what basically amounted to refusing to stop for a traffic stop... He fired his gun at this woman three times at point blank range... that's intent to kill. Imagine being him, holding the gun at this woman who was unarmed and pulling the trigger three times. I like to think I'm usually good at viewing things from both sides of the argument and adopting a pragmatic and centrist position... but I can't understand how anyone can think this is fine. I don't want to accuse anyone of being obtuse, but it does feel that way. Why did she refuse to stop? What was she hiding? Not what’s known now, what was known at the time? Sorry but if someone holding a gun says “stop or I’ll shoot”, and that’s pretty much the blanket position in the US, then not stopping opening you up to getting shot. It’s that simple. He did not say stop or I'll shoot... He gave her zero warning of his intentions. She pulled away, he stepped forward pulled his gun and fired three shots at her. Not even a warning shot fired in the air. I guess from his perspective, she did have a very dangerous array of childrens toys in clear view... Which for all he knew could be used with deadly force." The video i just saw showed the driver deliberately trying to run someone over, that could have been the ICE agent. I guess you think he should have just let her do that? | |||
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" No he didnt, the footage clearly shows he drew his weapon before tge car was close to him.. He had time to step one pace back.. Remove himself from the possibility of the car hitting him .. He chose to draw his weapon and fire three rounds at close range at the driver, he had several options in the short time the incident took.. He only chose to kill.." He is entitled to draw his weapon if he thinks its justified, its an escalation of force and posture, there has been many precedence of court cases about this. He is entitled to be infront of the car, He fired after being hit by a car, that is classed as her hitting him with a weapon. The first round was fired whilst being in contact with the car, the final 2 doesnt matter as SCOTUS has deemed it legal in 2014. Its a shit situation on both accounts, but self defence. | |||
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"Jesus Christ. A lot of fucked up heartless views on this thread Could you be more specific, so that those heartless people have a chance to shed light on their positions? You've made your view quite clear thank you Isn't it grand, to be able to make judgements without an argument that can be debated? Presumably, you fear actual discussion for some reason? I've seen your discussion and debate plenty of times. Fair enough. There's definitely a reason to only discuss and debate with people who share your views. Doesn’t matter what the facts are, what the stats say, what the evidence is, all that matters is the ideology is stuck to. And if all else fails, they can do a bit of name calling while patting each other on the back The woman was shot dead for what basically amounted to refusing to stop for a traffic stop... He fired his gun at this woman three times at point blank range... that's intent to kill. Imagine being him, holding the gun at this woman who was unarmed and pulling the trigger three times. I like to think I'm usually good at viewing things from both sides of the argument and adopting a pragmatic and centrist position... but I can't understand how anyone can think this is fine. I don't want to accuse anyone of being obtuse, but it does feel that way. Why did she refuse to stop? What was she hiding? Not what’s known now, what was known at the time? Sorry but if someone holding a gun says “stop or I’ll shoot”, and that’s pretty much the blanket position in the US, then not stopping opening you up to getting shot. It’s that simple. He did not say stop or I'll shoot... He gave her zero warning of his intentions. She pulled away, he stepped forward pulled his gun and fired three shots at her. Not even a warning shot fired in the air. I guess from his perspective, she did have a very dangerous array of childrens toys in clear view... Which for all he knew could be used with deadly force. The video i just saw showed the driver deliberately trying to run someone over, that could have been the ICE agent. I guess you think he should have just let her do that? " She was so 'deliberate' she turns the wheel to steer away from him.. Had she accelerated instead of reversing back and turning to the right he and the others would have been justified in the use of lethal force.. She didnt as the video clearly shows.. | |||
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"Jesus Christ. A lot of fucked up heartless views on this thread Could you be more specific, so that those heartless people have a chance to shed light on their positions? You've made your view quite clear thank you Isn't it grand, to be able to make judgements without an argument that can be debated? Presumably, you fear actual discussion for some reason? I've seen your discussion and debate plenty of times. Fair enough. There's definitely a reason to only discuss and debate with people who share your views. Doesn’t matter what the facts are, what the stats say, what the evidence is, all that matters is the ideology is stuck to. And if all else fails, they can do a bit of name calling while patting each other on the back The woman was shot dead for what basically amounted to refusing to stop for a traffic stop... He fired his gun at this woman three times at point blank range... that's intent to kill. Imagine being him, holding the gun at this woman who was unarmed and pulling the trigger three times. I like to think I'm usually good at viewing things from both sides of the argument and adopting a pragmatic and centrist position... but I can't understand how anyone can think this is fine. I don't want to accuse anyone of being obtuse, but it does feel that way. Why did she refuse to stop? What was she hiding? Not what’s known now, what was known at the time? Sorry but if someone holding a gun says “stop or I’ll shoot”, and that’s pretty much the blanket position in the US, then not stopping opening you up to getting shot. It’s that simple. He did not say stop or I'll shoot... He gave her zero warning of his intentions. She pulled away, he stepped forward pulled his gun and fired three shots at her. Not even a warning shot fired in the air. I guess from his perspective, she did have a very dangerous array of childrens toys in clear view... Which for all he knew could be used with deadly force. The video i just saw showed the driver deliberately trying to run someone over, that could have been the ICE agent. I guess you think he should have just let her do that? " You must be mistaken then... Because all the videos I've seen she's very clearly trying to drive away from them. | |||
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"Jesus Christ. A lot of fucked up heartless views on this thread Could you be more specific, so that those heartless people have a chance to shed light on their positions? You've made your view quite clear thank you Isn't it grand, to be able to make judgements without an argument that can be debated? Presumably, you fear actual discussion for some reason? I've seen your discussion and debate plenty of times. Fair enough. There's definitely a reason to only discuss and debate with people who share your views. Doesn’t matter what the facts are, what the stats say, what the evidence is, all that matters is the ideology is stuck to. And if all else fails, they can do a bit of name calling while patting each other on the back The woman was shot dead for what basically amounted to refusing to stop for a traffic stop... He fired his gun at this woman three times at point blank range... that's intent to kill. Imagine being him, holding the gun at this woman who was unarmed and pulling the trigger three times. I like to think I'm usually good at viewing things from both sides of the argument and adopting a pragmatic and centrist position... but I can't understand how anyone can think this is fine. I don't want to accuse anyone of being obtuse, but it does feel that way. Why did she refuse to stop? What was she hiding? Not what’s known now, what was known at the time? Sorry but if someone holding a gun says “stop or I’ll shoot”, and that’s pretty much the blanket position in the US, then not stopping opening you up to getting shot. It’s that simple. He did not say stop or I'll shoot... He gave her zero warning of his intentions. She pulled away, he stepped forward pulled his gun and fired three shots at her. Not even a warning shot fired in the air. I guess from his perspective, she did have a very dangerous array of childrens toys in clear view... Which for all he knew could be used with deadly force. The video i just saw showed the driver deliberately trying to run someone over, that could have been the ICE agent. I guess you think he should have just let her do that? You must be mistaken then... Because all the videos I've seen she's very clearly trying to drive away from them." Then we’ve clearly both not seen all the videos | |||
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" No he didnt, the footage clearly shows he drew his weapon before tge car was close to him.. He had time to step one pace back.. Remove himself from the possibility of the car hitting him .. He chose to draw his weapon and fire three rounds at close range at the driver, he had several options in the short time the incident took.. He only chose to kill.. He is entitled to draw his weapon if he thinks its justified, its an escalation of force and posture, there has been many precedence of court cases about this. He is entitled to be infront of the car, He fired after being hit by a car, that is classed as her hitting him with a weapon. The first round was fired whilst being in contact with the car, the final 2 doesnt matter as SCOTUS has deemed it legal in 2014. Its a shit situation on both accounts, but self defence. " Going round in circles so will agree to disagree.. Will say that regular police would have possibly put their vehicle in front of hers then dealt with whatever they thought was going on.. The level and type of training is maybe a contributory factor | |||
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"Jesus Christ. A lot of fucked up heartless views on this thread Could you be more specific, so that those heartless people have a chance to shed light on their positions? You've made your view quite clear thank you Isn't it grand, to be able to make judgements without an argument that can be debated? Presumably, you fear actual discussion for some reason? I've seen your discussion and debate plenty of times. Fair enough. There's definitely a reason to only discuss and debate with people who share your views. Doesn’t matter what the facts are, what the stats say, what the evidence is, all that matters is the ideology is stuck to. And if all else fails, they can do a bit of name calling while patting each other on the back The woman was shot dead for what basically amounted to refusing to stop for a traffic stop... He fired his gun at this woman three times at point blank range... that's intent to kill. Imagine being him, holding the gun at this woman who was unarmed and pulling the trigger three times. I like to think I'm usually good at viewing things from both sides of the argument and adopting a pragmatic and centrist position... but I can't understand how anyone can think this is fine. I don't want to accuse anyone of being obtuse, but it does feel that way. Why did she refuse to stop? What was she hiding? Not what’s known now, what was known at the time? Sorry but if someone holding a gun says “stop or I’ll shoot”, and that’s pretty much the blanket position in the US, then not stopping opening you up to getting shot. It’s that simple. He did not say stop or I'll shoot... He gave her zero warning of his intentions. She pulled away, he stepped forward pulled his gun and fired three shots at her. Not even a warning shot fired in the air. I guess from his perspective, she did have a very dangerous array of childrens toys in clear view... Which for all he knew could be used with deadly force. The video i just saw showed the driver deliberately trying to run someone over, that could have been the ICE agent. I guess you think he should have just let her do that? You must be mistaken then... Because all the videos I've seen she's very clearly trying to drive away from them. Then we’ve clearly both not seen all the videos " Fair enough that's true I haven't seen all the videos. Would you be willing to share a link to video you saw where she deliberately tried to hit him with her car? | |||
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" Going round in circles so will agree to disagree.. Will say that regular police would have possibly put their vehicle in front of hers then dealt with whatever they thought was going on.. The level and type of training is maybe a contributory factor " Yup thats the best option here amicable points of view being debated, its a shit situation. I feel for her son, she shouldnt of put herself in that situation. | |||
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" Going round in circles so will agree to disagree.. Will say that regular police would have possibly put their vehicle in front of hers then dealt with whatever they thought was going on.. The level and type of training is maybe a contributory factor Yup thats the best option here amicable points of view being debated, its a shit situation. I feel for her son, she shouldnt of put herself in that situation. " Ditto as regards the child, the Chief of Police has some very interesting points in how his officers are trained to de escalate where there is no obvious criminal threat and avoid putting themselves in a situation such as this where deadly force is seen as the only solution.. | |||
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" Going round in circles so will agree to disagree.. Will say that regular police would have possibly put their vehicle in front of hers then dealt with whatever they thought was going on.. The level and type of training is maybe a contributory factor Yup thats the best option here amicable points of view being debated, its a shit situation. I feel for her son, she shouldnt of put herself in that situation. Ditto as regards the child, the Chief of Police has some very interesting points in how his officers are trained to de escalate where there is no obvious criminal threat and avoid putting themselves in a situation such as this where deadly force is seen as the only solution.. " I fully agree that de-escalation should be the main focus but split second decisions made in less than a second. Also different training from the DoJ and the DHS. | |||
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" Do you believe she was deliberately trying to run him over? " Honestly no, but thats the benifit of hindsight and looking at it at multiple angles in fast, slow and freeze frame pictures. The officer didnt have that benifit, heard the engine raw as there was no traction, as he was infront and came towards him, and then hit him. Split second decision that acted in self defence as shown by the shot through the front window. | |||
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" Do you believe she was deliberately trying to run him over? Honestly no, but thats the benifit of hindsight and looking at it at multiple angles in fast, slow and freeze frame pictures. The officer didnt have that benifit, heard the engine raw as there was no traction, as he was infront and came towards him, and then hit him. Split second decision that acted in self defence as shown by the shot through the front window." Well we agree on that. But I don't believe he acted in self defence. Either way, as you said you... It's a fucked situation. And Renee was killed. I hope he faces the appropriate justice for his decision. | |||
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" Well we agree on that. But I don't believe he acted in self defence. Either way, as you said you... It's a fucked situation. And Renee was killed. I hope he faces the appropriate justice for his decision." Why dont you think its self defence? What would make it self defence in your eyes? | |||
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" Well we agree on that. But I don't believe he acted in self defence. Either way, as you said you... It's a fucked situation. And Renee was killed. I hope he faces the appropriate justice for his decision. Why dont you think its self defence? What would make it self defence in your eyes? " If a Honda Pilot being driven at 1mph scares you, then maybe you shouldn’t be holding a gun. | |||
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"Isn’t it more like: Woman uses car to block road during protest. Car surrounded by ICE agents. Woman driver told to get out of car. Woman driver refuses, and tries to drive away. Woman driver shot dead. Seems fair enough. She had plenty of opportunities to comply with law enforcement but chose not to. They hate the true facts 👍" Wow, so a mother of three, not even involved in a protest who’s simply trying to leave, who’s under no obligation to obey these fascist pigs deserved it now. You have serious issues. | |||
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"Isn’t it more like: Woman uses car to block road during protest. Car surrounded by ICE agents. Woman driver told to get out of car. Woman driver refuses, and tries to drive away. Woman driver shot dead. Seems fair enough. She had plenty of opportunities to comply with law enforcement but chose not to." Here is the thing.. the further out we get from this, the more the government story and this narrative falls apart So.. DHS said their cars were being accosted while stuck in snow banks.. We know this is a lie DHS said she had been following them around ….that was a lie We know she had just dropped off her kid at school and gone directly to the spot where she got murdered DHS says she had been deliberately blocking traffic the entire time.. this was a lie We know the car was there for about 3-4 minutes before the incident..and thru that entire period she had been waiving all traffic through.. DHS said she had not followed instructions…. That was a lie In cleaned up audio, the people in the first ICE vehicle are heard shouting “get the fuck out of here!”… the people in the 2nd ICE vehicle shouted “get the fuck out of the car!” By the time the people in vehicle 2 got over, she was already in the process of doing her 3 point turn! She was complying!!! DHS said she deliberately aimed the vehicle at the agent.. that was a lie… If that was the case, why are the tyres pointing away from him! DHS said their agent was seriously injured and went to the hospital… this was a lie And… yet… the government and people here are still gaslighting! Still doubling down Why are the FBI now refusing to cooperate with the local police in the investigation And yet, noem, Trump and Vance have never let the words “we messed up “ out of their mouths ever like saying it is a sign of weakness! | |||
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"Isn’t it more like: Woman uses car to block road during protest. Car surrounded by ICE agents. Woman driver told to get out of car. Woman driver refuses, and tries to drive away. Woman driver shot dead. Seems fair enough. She had plenty of opportunities to comply with law enforcement but chose not to. Here is the thing.. the further out we get from this, the more the government story and this narrative falls apart So.. DHS said their cars were being accosted while stuck in snow banks.. We know this is a lie DHS said she had been following them around ….that was a lie We know she had just dropped off her kid at school and gone directly to the spot where she got murdered DHS says she had been deliberately blocking traffic the entire time.. this was a lie We know the car was there for about 3-4 minutes before the incident..and thru that entire period she had been waiving all traffic through.. DHS said she had not followed instructions…. That was a lie In cleaned up audio, the people in the first ICE vehicle are heard shouting “get the fuck out of here!”… the people in the 2nd ICE vehicle shouted “get the fuck out of the car!” By the time the people in vehicle 2 got over, she was already in the process of doing her 3 point turn! She was complying!!! DHS said she deliberately aimed the vehicle at the agent.. that was a lie… If that was the case, why are the tyres pointing away from him! DHS said their agent was seriously injured and went to the hospital… this was a lie And… yet… the government and people here are still gaslighting! Still doubling down Why are the FBI now refusing to cooperate with the local police in the investigation And yet, noem, Trump and Vance have never let the words “we messed up “ out of their mouths ever like saying it is a sign of weakness! " Pretty much all of that is disputed and yet to be established. Regarding the investigation, it's absolutely standard for Federal officers to be investigated by the FBI and not locally. The local Democratic authorities are clearly against the work of ICE and are no more likely to be independent than the Federal authorities. | |||
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"Isn’t it more like: Woman uses car to block road during protest. Car surrounded by ICE agents. Woman driver told to get out of car. Woman driver refuses, and tries to drive away. Woman driver shot dead. Seems fair enough. She had plenty of opportunities to comply with law enforcement but chose not to. Here is the thing.. the further out we get from this, the more the government story and this narrative falls apart So.. DHS said their cars were being accosted while stuck in snow banks.. We know this is a lie DHS said she had been following them around ….that was a lie We know she had just dropped off her kid at school and gone directly to the spot where she got murdered DHS says she had been deliberately blocking traffic the entire time.. this was a lie We know the car was there for about 3-4 minutes before the incident..and thru that entire period she had been waiving all traffic through.. DHS said she had not followed instructions…. That was a lie In cleaned up audio, the people in the first ICE vehicle are heard shouting “get the fuck out of here!”… the people in the 2nd ICE vehicle shouted “get the fuck out of the car!” By the time the people in vehicle 2 got over, she was already in the process of doing her 3 point turn! She was complying!!! DHS said she deliberately aimed the vehicle at the agent.. that was a lie… If that was the case, why are the tyres pointing away from him! DHS said their agent was seriously injured and went to the hospital… this was a lie And… yet… the government and people here are still gaslighting! Still doubling down Why are the FBI now refusing to cooperate with the local police in the investigation And yet, noem, Trump and Vance have never let the words “we messed up “ out of their mouths ever like saying it is a sign of weakness! " Got a source that confirms its all a lie or just vibes? It'd be interesting to see her wifes video as she was out recording the incident prior to the shooting. | |||
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" If a Honda Pilot being driven at 1mph scares you, then maybe you shouldn’t be holding a gun. " A weapon is a weapon doesnt matter if a car runs you over at 1 or 100mph | |||
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"It will never be 'established'.. Not to a point where a common consensus is possible.. Interestingly the NYT reports there's been ten similar incidents involving ICE and people in cars since September.. " Fair point, but let's at least gather all the facts first. | |||
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"Isn’t it more like: Woman uses car to block road during protest. Car surrounded by ICE agents. Woman driver told to get out of car. Woman driver refuses, and tries to drive away. Woman driver shot dead. Seems fair enough. She had plenty of opportunities to comply with law enforcement but chose not to. Here is the thing.. the further out we get from this, the more the government story and this narrative falls apart So.. DHS said their cars were being accosted while stuck in snow banks.. We know this is a lie DHS said she had been following them around ….that was a lie We know she had just dropped off her kid at school and gone directly to the spot where she got murdered DHS says she had been deliberately blocking traffic the entire time.. this was a lie We know the car was there for about 3-4 minutes before the incident..and thru that entire period she had been waiving all traffic through.. DHS said she had not followed instructions…. That was a lie In cleaned up audio, the people in the first ICE vehicle are heard shouting “get the fuck out of here!”… the people in the 2nd ICE vehicle shouted “get the fuck out of the car!” By the time the people in vehicle 2 got over, she was already in the process of doing her 3 point turn! She was complying!!! DHS said she deliberately aimed the vehicle at the agent.. that was a lie… If that was the case, why are the tyres pointing away from him! DHS said their agent was seriously injured and went to the hospital… this was a lie And… yet… the government and people here are still gaslighting! Still doubling down Why are the FBI now refusing to cooperate with the local police in the investigation And yet, noem, Trump and Vance have never let the words “we messed up “ out of their mouths ever like saying it is a sign of weakness! Got a source that confirms its all a lie or just vibes? It'd be interesting to see her wifes video as she was out recording the incident prior to the shooting." Have just seen the story about her wife filming. That does seem incompatible with the claim that she was there by chance. | |||
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"...people here are still gaslighting!" Not really. Most are confused and figuring things out, or are taking a (prematurely confident) position (indeed, you have taken a position). Nobody on this forum appears to be gaslighting. | |||
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"...people here are still gaslighting!" "Not really. Most are confused and figuring things out, or are taking a (prematurely confident) position (indeed, you have taken a position). Nobody on this forum appears to be gaslighting." I find it astonishing how many people here are aware that misinformation is being put out, but assume that it's only the other side doing that, and that their side is telling the gospel truth. | |||
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"...people here are still gaslighting! Not really. Most are confused and figuring things out, or are taking a (prematurely confident) position (indeed, you have taken a position). Nobody on this forum appears to be gaslighting. I find it astonishing how many people here are aware that misinformation is being put out, but assume that it's only the other side doing that, and that their side is telling the gospel truth." 100%  | |||
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"...people here are still gaslighting! Not really. Most are confused and figuring things out, or are taking a (prematurely confident) position (indeed, you have taken a position). Nobody on this forum appears to be gaslighting. I find it astonishing how many people here are aware that misinformation is being put out, but assume that it's only the other side doing that, and that their side is telling the gospel truth." This.. | |||
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"...people here are still gaslighting! Not really. Most are confused and figuring things out, or are taking a (prematurely confident) position (indeed, you have taken a position). Nobody on this forum appears to be gaslighting. I find it astonishing how many people here are aware that misinformation is being put out, but assume that it's only the other side doing that, and that their side is telling the gospel truth." 🎯 | |||
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" If a Honda Pilot being driven at 1mph scares you, then maybe you shouldn’t be holding a gun. A weapon is a weapon doesnt matter if a car runs you over at 1 or 100mph" That's a pretty stupid argument to make. If you let a car run you over at 1mph you were either letting it happen or unable to move out of the way. The ice agent was fully capable of using his legs. He felt like ending the life of Renee was better than stepping to the side | |||
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"Isn’t it more like: Woman uses car to block road during protest. Car surrounded by ICE agents. Woman driver told to get out of car. Woman driver refuses, and tries to drive away. Woman driver shot dead. Seems fair enough. She had plenty of opportunities to comply with law enforcement but chose not to. Here is the thing.. the further out we get from this, the more the government story and this narrative falls apart So.. DHS said their cars were being accosted while stuck in snow banks.. We know this is a lie DHS said she had been following them around ….that was a lie We know she had just dropped off her kid at school and gone directly to the spot where she got murdered DHS says she had been deliberately blocking traffic the entire time.. this was a lie We know the car was there for about 3-4 minutes before the incident..and thru that entire period she had been waiving all traffic through.. DHS said she had not followed instructions…. That was a lie In cleaned up audio, the people in the first ICE vehicle are heard shouting “get the fuck out of here!”… the people in the 2nd ICE vehicle shouted “get the fuck out of the car!” By the time the people in vehicle 2 got over, she was already in the process of doing her 3 point turn! She was complying!!! DHS said she deliberately aimed the vehicle at the agent.. that was a lie… If that was the case, why are the tyres pointing away from him! DHS said their agent was seriously injured and went to the hospital… this was a lie And… yet… the government and people here are still gaslighting! Still doubling down Why are the FBI now refusing to cooperate with the local police in the investigation And yet, noem, Trump and Vance have never let the words “we messed up “ out of their mouths ever like saying it is a sign of weakness! " I have been watching it all and agree totally with this. The first car is waved past her and she is told to get out of the way.. which she is in the process of doing when the unthinkable happens... There was 100% no need for him to shoot her once, let alone 3 times. And the claiming he was run over and went to hospital is totally fabricated. | |||
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"This and all of the Venezuela and Greenland stuff is certainly taking the spotlight away from the Epstein files. Just saying "And Iran | |||
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"Minnesota law considers any death caused by unreasonable force to be murder. No badge or uniform is exempt from this law." This is untrue. The phrase used for this in Minnesota is "Voluntary Manslaughter", which is not murder. | |||
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"City Officials have confirmed Renee Good was a volunteer against ICE arrests, which is absolutely legal and was her right to do so. It has been claimed she had repeatedly obstructed officers and been abusive so its not clear that this was just a traffic stop. The video does appear to show her actively attempting to block the road but perhaps this is misleading. It is… the bit before shows she just happened to be there and you can see her hand out the window physically waving the cars through " Any comment Fabio ? | |||
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" I’ve been hit harder by an old lady with a trolley in Tescos, carry on bootlicking. " So its now how hard some one is head with a deadly weapon whilst looking and smiling at him, whilst being told to drive. Against other officers instructions. You do know that the fact that she hit him doesnt actually matter, even driving at him gave him legal footing to shoot in self defence as its assault with a deadly weapon. She didnt deserve to die, she just gave up the right to live. I now seeing this feel sorry for the son and the dog. Her and her wife went to disrupt the officers and in a chaotic situation one ended up dead. | |||
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" It doesn't actually show it though. Did you see it hit him?" It hits him at 40 second mark, first shot is the 41st and 3rd shot before the 43rd. The narrative is dead. She caused her death and its self defence not murder. | |||
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"Minnesota law considers any death caused by unreasonable force to be murder. No badge or uniform is exempt from this law. This is untrue. The phrase used for this in Minnesota is "Voluntary Manslaughter", which is not murder." From what I’ve read a murder charge is possible if accused of acting without reasonable fear for personal safety. | |||
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" It doesn't actually show it though. Did you see it hit him? It hits him at 40 second mark, first shot is the 41st and 3rd shot before the 43rd. The narrative is dead. She caused her death and its self defence not murder." There is not a single frame where we see the car make any contact with him. | |||
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" It doesn't actually show it though. Did you see it hit him? It hits him at 40 second mark, first shot is the 41st and 3rd shot before the 43rd. The narrative is dead. She caused her death and its self defence not murder." No. He shot her to death He caused her death. | |||
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" It doesn't actually show it though. Did you see it hit him? It hits him at 40 second mark, first shot is the 41st and 3rd shot before the 43rd. The narrative is dead. She caused her death and its self defence not murder. There is not a single frame where we see the car make any contact with him." There isn’t, the noise in the video as he drops his phones is the first gunshot, her last words to him are ‘That’s fine dude,I’m not mad at you’. Doesn’t exactly sound like the words you’d say to someone if you were trying to run them over. | |||
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" It doesn't actually show it though. Did you see it hit him? It hits him at 40 second mark, first shot is the 41st and 3rd shot before the 43rd. The narrative is dead. She caused her death and its self defence not murder. There is not a single frame where we see the car make any contact with him. There isn’t, the noise in the video as he drops his phones is the first gunshot, her last words to him are ‘That’s fine dude,I’m not mad at you’. Doesn’t exactly sound like the words you’d say to someone if you were trying to run them over. " And his words "Fucking bitch" After shooting her dead and watching her car crash. | |||
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"Minnesota law considers any death caused by unreasonable force to be murder. No badge or uniform is exempt from this law." "This is untrue. The phrase used for this in Minnesota is "Voluntary Manslaughter", which is not murder." "From what I’ve read a murder charge is possible if accused of acting without reasonable fear for personal safety." That is true, it *can* be considered to be murder if excessive force is used unjustifiably. But your original statement is that excessive force is always considered to be murder, which isn't true. | |||
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" There is not a single frame where we see the car make any contact with him. There isn’t, the noise in the video as he drops his phones is the first gunshot, her last words to him are ‘That’s fine dude,I’m not mad at you’. Doesn’t exactly sound like the words you’d say to someone if you were trying to run them over. And his words "Fucking bitch" After shooting her dead and watching her car crash." Yeah and I have called people worse when they have hit my car, in the moment when tried to run me over thats quite pleasant. Yup not mad at him but looks at him whilst listening to her wife to run away. The narratives this just killed "She didnt know it was police" they were following and knew it was ICE. "She was doing a Uturn" No she was just blocking ICE similar tactics deployed by ICE Watch all over the country. "She panicked" she got told to drive, seen him infront and still drove forward. Like I said in the above comment, It doesnt even matter if he got hit, which he did with the side on angle and even in this video, the mere fact that she drove forward whilst hes infront of the vehicle. Gives him justification to use 1, 3, 12 rounds. She didnt deserve to die, she gave up the right to live. | |||
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" It doesn't actually show it though. Did you see it hit him? It hits him at 40 second mark, first shot is the 41st and 3rd shot before the 43rd. The narrative is dead. She caused her death and its self defence not murder. There is not a single frame where we see the car make any contact with him." What do you think of the bodycam footage, does it change your opinion on the circumstances that happened and the sequence of events in any way? | |||
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" There is not a single frame where we see the car make any contact with him. There isn’t, the noise in the video as he drops his phones is the first gunshot, her last words to him are ‘That’s fine dude,I’m not mad at you’. Doesn’t exactly sound like the words you’d say to someone if you were trying to run them over. And his words "Fucking bitch" After shooting her dead and watching her car crash. Yeah and I have called people worse when they have hit my car, in the moment when tried to run me over thats quite pleasant. Yup not mad at him but looks at him whilst listening to her wife to run away. The narratives this just killed "She didnt know it was police" they were following and knew it was ICE. "She was doing a Uturn" No she was just blocking ICE similar tactics deployed by ICE Watch all over the country. "She panicked" she got told to drive, seen him infront and still drove forward. Like I said in the above comment, It doesnt even matter if he got hit, which he did with the side on angle and even in this video, the mere fact that she drove forward whilst hes infront of the vehicle. Gives him justification to use 1, 3, 12 rounds. She didnt deserve to die, she gave up the right to live. " The Party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command.” - George Orwell, 1984. | |||
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"City Officials have confirmed Renee Good was a volunteer against ICE arrests, which is absolutely legal and was her right to do so. It has been claimed she had repeatedly obstructed officers and been abusive so its not clear that this was just a traffic stop. The video does appear to show her actively attempting to block the road but perhaps this is misleading. It is… the bit before shows she just happened to be there and you can see her hand out the window physically waving the cars through Any comment Fabio ?" The video from behind still shows her physically waving the vehicles through, which is why all the vehicles did except that 2nd ICE vehicle That video hasn’t changed….. | |||
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"City Officials have confirmed Renee Good was a volunteer against ICE arrests, which is absolutely legal and was her right to do so. It has been claimed she had repeatedly obstructed officers and been abusive so its not clear that this was just a traffic stop. The video does appear to show her actively attempting to block the road but perhaps this is misleading. It is… the bit before shows she just happened to be there and you can see her hand out the window physically waving the cars through Any comment Fabio ? The video from behind still shows her physically waving the vehicles through, which is why all the vehicles did except that 2nd ICE vehicle That video hasn’t changed….. " Have you watched the last link in the thread? | |||
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" It doesn't actually show it though. Did you see it hit him? It hits him at 40 second mark, first shot is the 41st and 3rd shot before the 43rd. The narrative is dead. She caused her death and its self defence not murder." And I'm sure his injuries caused in the 40 second mark will heal as quickly as his bosses earlobe | |||
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"City Officials have confirmed Renee Good was a volunteer against ICE arrests, which is absolutely legal and was her right to do so. It has been claimed she had repeatedly obstructed officers and been abusive so its not clear that this was just a traffic stop. The video does appear to show her actively attempting to block the road but perhaps this is misleading. It is… the bit before shows she just happened to be there and you can see her hand out the window physically waving the cars through Any comment Fabio ? The video from behind still shows her physically waving the vehicles through, which is why all the vehicles did except that 2nd ICE vehicle That video hasn’t changed….. " Seriously? 🤷 | |||
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"City Officials have confirmed Renee Good was a volunteer against ICE arrests, which is absolutely legal and was her right to do so. It has been claimed she had repeatedly obstructed officers and been abusive so its not clear that this was just a traffic stop. The video does appear to show her actively attempting to block the road but perhaps this is misleading. It is… the bit before shows she just happened to be there and you can see her hand out the window physically waving the cars through Any comment Fabio ? The video from behind still shows her physically waving the vehicles through, which is why all the vehicles did except that 2nd ICE vehicle That video hasn’t changed….. Have you watched the last link in the thread? " I think links possibly removed, can be against rules to post external content. | |||
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"City Officials have confirmed Renee Good was a volunteer against ICE arrests, which is absolutely legal and was her right to do so. It has been claimed she had repeatedly obstructed officers and been abusive so its not clear that this was just a traffic stop. The video does appear to show her actively attempting to block the road but perhaps this is misleading. It is… the bit before shows she just happened to be there and you can see her hand out the window physically waving the cars through Any comment Fabio ? The video from behind still shows her physically waving the vehicles through, which is why all the vehicles did except that 2nd ICE vehicle That video hasn’t changed….. Have you watched the last link in the thread? I think links possibly removed, can be against rules to post external content." If you are talking about the ICE agents mobile phone… what you can actually see is that he steps in front of the car, and she is actually turning the steering wheel away from him That’s when he shoots 3 times and says “fucking bitch” And you think that helps his case…… how? She was jolly and says “I ain’t mad at you “ Her partner said “take off the mask” and teases him by saying “you should have lunch big boy” And he said…. Fucking bitch! So…. Gaslighting? | |||
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" ICE agents are not required to have body cams.. which is why every controversial incident that has been reported has relied on mobile phone footage… " Body cam footage now public | |||
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"City Officials have confirmed Renee Good was a volunteer against ICE arrests, which is absolutely legal and was her right to do so. It has been claimed she had repeatedly obstructed officers and been abusive so its not clear that this was just a traffic stop. The video does appear to show her actively attempting to block the road but perhaps this is misleading. It is… the bit before shows she just happened to be there and you can see her hand out the window physically waving the cars through Any comment Fabio ? The video from behind still shows her physically waving the vehicles through, which is why all the vehicles did except that 2nd ICE vehicle That video hasn’t changed….. Have you watched the last link in the thread? I think links possibly removed, can be against rules to post external content. If you are talking about the ICE agents mobile phone… what you can actually see is that he steps in front of the car, and she is actually turning the steering wheel away from him That’s when he shoots 3 times and says “fucking bitch” And you think that helps his case…… how? She was jolly and says “I ain’t mad at you “ Her partner said “take off the mask” and teases him by saying “you should have lunch big boy” And he said…. Fucking bitch! So…. Gaslighting? " Not a mobile phone, it's body cam which they are required to have since 2021. | |||
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" ICE agents are not required to have body cams.. which is why every controversial incident that has been reported has relied on mobile phone footage… Body cam footage now public " It’s not body cam.. its him filming on his mobile phone… Her partner was also filming on a mobile phone I think it’s interesting his mobile phone footage “leaked” where has we haven’t seen hers yet? | |||
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"City Officials have confirmed Renee Good was a volunteer against ICE arrests, which is absolutely legal and was her right to do so. It has been claimed she had repeatedly obstructed officers and been abusive so its not clear that this was just a traffic stop. The video does appear to show her actively attempting to block the road but perhaps this is misleading. It is… the bit before shows she just happened to be there and you can see her hand out the window physically waving the cars through Any comment Fabio ? The video from behind still shows her physically waving the vehicles through, which is why all the vehicles did except that 2nd ICE vehicle That video hasn’t changed….. Have you watched the last link in the thread? I think links possibly removed, can be against rules to post external content. If you are talking about the ICE agents mobile phone… what you can actually see is that he steps in front of the car, and she is actually turning the steering wheel away from him That’s when he shoots 3 times and says “fucking bitch” And you think that helps his case…… how? She was jolly and says “I ain’t mad at you “ Her partner said “take off the mask” and teases him by saying “you should have lunch big boy” And he said…. Fucking bitch! So…. Gaslighting? Not a mobile phone, it's body cam which they are required to have since 2021." Police officers are required to have body cams and dash cams.. ICE agents are not! In fact he testified in his case 6 months ago when he did get hit that they don’t have body cams or dash cams | |||
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"City Officials have confirmed Renee Good was a volunteer against ICE arrests, which is absolutely legal and was her right to do so. It has been claimed she had repeatedly obstructed officers and been abusive so its not clear that this was just a traffic stop. The video does appear to show her actively attempting to block the road but perhaps this is misleading. It is… the bit before shows she just happened to be there and you can see her hand out the window physically waving the cars through Any comment Fabio ? The video from behind still shows her physically waving the vehicles through, which is why all the vehicles did except that 2nd ICE vehicle That video hasn’t changed….. Have you watched the last link in the thread? I think links possibly removed, can be against rules to post external content. If you are talking about the ICE agents mobile phone… what you can actually see is that he steps in front of the car, and she is actually turning the steering wheel away from him That’s when he shoots 3 times and says “fucking bitch” And you think that helps his case…… how? She was jolly and says “I ain’t mad at you “ Her partner said “take off the mask” and teases him by saying “you should have lunch big boy” And he said…. Fucking bitch! So…. Gaslighting? Not a mobile phone, it's body cam which they are required to have since 2021." Actually when he is walking around the car, and she is initially reversing (she is in the process of doing it because you can see the lights are on) in the back window where you see the reflection of the tree you also see a reflection of him holding up the mobile phone….. | |||
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"City Officials have confirmed Renee Good was a volunteer against ICE arrests, which is absolutely legal and was her right to do so. It has been claimed she had repeatedly obstructed officers and been abusive so its not clear that this was just a traffic stop. The video does appear to show her actively attempting to block the road but perhaps this is misleading. It is… the bit before shows she just happened to be there and you can see her hand out the window physically waving the cars through Any comment Fabio ? The video from behind still shows her physically waving the vehicles through, which is why all the vehicles did except that 2nd ICE vehicle That video hasn’t changed….. Have you watched the last link in the thread? I think links possibly removed, can be against rules to post external content. If you are talking about the ICE agents mobile phone… what you can actually see is that he steps in front of the car, and she is actually turning the steering wheel away from him That’s when he shoots 3 times and says “fucking bitch” And you think that helps his case…… how? She was jolly and says “I ain’t mad at you “ Her partner said “take off the mask” and teases him by saying “you should have lunch big boy” And he said…. Fucking bitch! So…. Gaslighting? Not a mobile phone, it's body cam which they are required to have since 2021." The clip is on the BBC as well. They do not say if it is body cam or mobile though when he goes over it could be a mobile being dropped but need confirmation. What it also shows is the other women, presumably the wife who was filming on her phone. She tried to open the passenger door but the driver drove forwards. So in the whole incident both an officer and the wife tried to open the car door and both times the driver moved the car. Apparently lots of fake AI videos doing the rounds so I'm hoping the BBC have verified this one I have seen | |||
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"City Officials have confirmed Renee Good was a volunteer against ICE arrests, which is absolutely legal and was her right to do so. It has been claimed she had repeatedly obstructed officers and been abusive so its not clear that this was just a traffic stop. The video does appear to show her actively attempting to block the road but perhaps this is misleading. It is… the bit before shows she just happened to be there and you can see her hand out the window physically waving the cars through Any comment Fabio ? The video from behind still shows her physically waving the vehicles through, which is why all the vehicles did except that 2nd ICE vehicle That video hasn’t changed….. Have you watched the last link in the thread? I think links possibly removed, can be against rules to post external content. If you are talking about the ICE agents mobile phone… what you can actually see is that he steps in front of the car, and she is actually turning the steering wheel away from him That’s when he shoots 3 times and says “fucking bitch” And you think that helps his case…… how? She was jolly and says “I ain’t mad at you “ Her partner said “take off the mask” and teases him by saying “you should have lunch big boy” And he said…. Fucking bitch! So…. Gaslighting? Not a mobile phone, it's body cam which they are required to have since 2021. Actually when he is walking around the car, and she is initially reversing (she is in the process of doing it because you can see the lights are on) in the back window where you see the reflection of the tree you also see a reflection of him holding up the mobile phone….." You are correct, I apologise. | |||
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"City Officials have confirmed Renee Good was a volunteer against ICE arrests, which is absolutely legal and was her right to do so. It has been claimed she had repeatedly obstructed officers and been abusive so its not clear that this was just a traffic stop. The video does appear to show her actively attempting to block the road but perhaps this is misleading. It is… the bit before shows she just happened to be there and you can see her hand out the window physically waving the cars through Any comment Fabio ? The video from behind still shows her physically waving the vehicles through, which is why all the vehicles did except that 2nd ICE vehicle That video hasn’t changed….. Have you watched the last link in the thread? I think links possibly removed, can be against rules to post external content. If you are talking about the ICE agents mobile phone… what you can actually see is that he steps in front of the car, and she is actually turning the steering wheel away from him That’s when he shoots 3 times and says “fucking bitch” And you think that helps his case…… how? She was jolly and says “I ain’t mad at you “ Her partner said “take off the mask” and teases him by saying “you should have lunch big boy” And he said…. Fucking bitch! So…. Gaslighting? Not a mobile phone, it's body cam which they are required to have since 2021. The clip is on the BBC as well. They do not say if it is body cam or mobile though when he goes over it could be a mobile being dropped but need confirmation. What it also shows is the other women, presumably the wife who was filming on her phone. She tried to open the passenger door but the driver drove forwards. So in the whole incident both an officer and the wife tried to open the car door and both times the driver moved the car. Apparently lots of fake AI videos doing the rounds so I'm hoping the BBC have verified this one I have seen " The new footage definitely paints a different picture.. the debate will only be more polarised now. | |||
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"The deceased woman in part aided by her wife sadly engineered her own death from viewing the latest footage , ICE do seem rather lawless , over aggressive and badly trained from what I've seen and personally I wouldn't mess or impede them intentionally .." That should make the shooting right, then! When can we expect a commendation from Trump to the gun man? | |||
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"The deceased woman in part aided by her wife sadly engineered her own death from viewing the latest footage , ICE do seem rather lawless , over aggressive and badly trained from what I've seen and personally I wouldn't mess or impede them intentionally .." Agree with this. It’s the trigger happy US. If armed law enforcement tell you to get out of the car then you do it, unless you are incredibly stupid. | |||
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