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Starmer - where did it go wrong?

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By (user no longer on site) OP   
34 weeks ago

After the events of the last week I checked back at the text of Starmer’s first speech as PM on 5 July 2024.

Looking at it now it’s laughable.

Surely the swiftest fall of any government in living memory. They’ve gone from all these promises to spending their time dealing with today’s scandal and worrying about how they can stop Reform. All in the space of a year.

But where did it go wrong for them?

Here are some highlights from that speech:

“My government will serve you.

Politics can be a force for good. We will show that.

It’s time to get a hold of the tiller, set the course, and steer for calmer waters.

I said that we needed to restore trust in politics and public service.

We have begun a new chapter in our country.

A chapter of hope, of renewal, of change.

And we will unite our country.

We will serve you all.

And we will do it with integrity, with decency, with calm and with resolve”.

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By *ecadentDeviantsCouple
34 weeks ago

North West

Farage will not unite this country.

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By *rDiscretionXXXMan
34 weeks ago

Gilfach


"Farage will not unite this country."

Not sure why you've brought Farage into a thread about how badly Labour are doing.

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By *ecadentDeviantsCouple
34 weeks ago

North West


"Farage will not unite this country.

Not sure why you've brought Farage into a thread about how badly Labour are doing."

Because a poll was posted showing Reform on 34% with Labour miles behind. Seems to have vanished.

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By *ecadentDeviantsCouple
34 weeks ago

North West

It never really went right for Starmer did it?

Few people were really enthusiastic about him from the off. Less than 34% of the poll.

Right wingers think he’s a wet wipe.

Left wingers accuse him of being a Tory.

Trying to please everyone & offering a lame government that pi$$es off the majority in the process.

Pitiful.

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By *ecadentDeviantsCouple
34 weeks ago

North West

Apparently the 34% is from Reform’s in house polling company? BS to try & force the narrative with the sudden ubiquity of flags knocking around.

I’ve just looked at YouGov, they are on 27% there.

Seems to me that yes people don’t like Starmer, but a clear majority of us aren’t cock a hoop about Farage either.

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By *ecadentDeviantsCouple
34 weeks ago

North West

Just found the poll, was on another thread by the OP, my bad.

Regardless, point still stands, he says Labour are sh*t (no arguments from me) & Reform are the answer (the majority of us don’t think so)

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By *ingdomNightTimePleasuresMan
34 weeks ago

nearby

Two ministers resigned, one for corruption, one for tax fraud. Ambassador, also a previous mortgage fraudster sacked for links to sex offender.

Just the autumn budget from the fake CV economist.

Labour are toast.

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By *otMe66Man
34 weeks ago

Terra Firma


"Just found the poll, was on another thread by the OP, my bad.

Regardless, point still stands, he says Labour are sh*t (no arguments from me) & Reform are the answer (the majority of us don’t think so)

"

Tell me why you think Reform aren't the answer?

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By *arl JamesMan
34 weeks ago

Birmingham/London, South East

Labour do not have a strong opposition so given time they may be able to recover

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By *9alMan
34 weeks ago

Bridgend

we all make mistakes occasionally but he does seem to have made a lot of poor decisions & ignored sensible advice ?

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By *ecky400TV/TS
34 weeks ago

/highlands

Worst thing they did was pick on pensioners. Xx

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By *ecadentDeviantsCouple
34 weeks ago

North West


"Just found the poll, was on another thread by the OP, my bad.

Regardless, point still stands, he says Labour are sh*t (no arguments from me) & Reform are the answer (the majority of us don’t think so)

Tell me why you think Reform aren't the answer? "

Not just me who thinks that.

Some of the reasons for me personally:

Because we have had low tax, small government previously during the 1980s especially. We could get away with it then because the state had things to sell. Now? Wealth inequality has grown since 1979, time to redress some of that after four and a half decades. Reform won’t do that.

Too divisive.

Too simplistic with their solutions that don’t really stand up to scrutiny or are out of their hands (immigration)

Policies on the NHS likely to go down like a lead balloon.

Public support for net zero remains high despite all the mud slinging.

Further tax cutting will lead to public services that are already on their knees getting even worse (if that’s possible).

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By *otMe66Man
34 weeks ago

Terra Firma

Labour won the GE by being the least worst option, but all choices were poor. The real surprise has been just how disorganised they were and still are. Starmer’s judgement has been under constant pressure and has shown no sign of improvement from day one. He and his leadership team were immediately dragged into the Lard Ali controversy, followed swiftly by ministers with murky backgrounds. That theme has continued right up to yesterday with Mandelson.

Starmer will now be desperately looking for a scapegoat over appointing him as US ambassador, but make no mistake, he knew about the Epstein connection. In my view the best next step would be to replace Starmer with Streeting, allowing him to form a cabinet without skeletons in the cupboard and united behind a clear direction. What we have today is a government led by a leader who is treading water, and a cabinet that already appears to be stale and lacks influence.

Going forward we need the opposition parties to start upping their game, until that happens we are going to get the same end result, just in a different colour.

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By *usie pTV/TS
34 weeks ago

taunton

I had a dream that there would be at least a couple of years of freedom from sleaze and corruption after the defeat of the cons, so it has now been proven beyond doubt to be pure fantasy.

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By (user no longer on site)
34 weeks ago

I think whatever party gets to run the country, will not be really running it per say, as donations are raising their ugly head again and again nothing is being done about it.

Business making donations to parties, want favours for their money, they come first not us.

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By *otMe66Man
34 weeks ago

Terra Firma


"Just found the poll, was on another thread by the OP, my bad.

Regardless, point still stands, he says Labour are sh*t (no arguments from me) & Reform are the answer (the majority of us don’t think so)

Tell me why you think Reform aren't the answer?

Not just me who thinks that.

Some of the reasons for me personally:

Because we have had low tax, small government previously during the 1980s especially. We could get away with it then because the state had things to sell. Now? Wealth inequality has grown since 1979, time to redress some of that after four and a half decades. Reform won’t do that.

Too divisive.

Too simplistic with their solutions that don’t really stand up to scrutiny or are out of their hands (immigration)

Policies on the NHS likely to go down like a lead balloon.

Public support for net zero remains high despite all the mud slinging.

Further tax cutting will lead to public services that are already on their knees getting even worse (if that’s possible).

"

The public are in my opinion are tired of meaningless words and policies, they want action and direction that is not going to falter, neither Labour or Conservatives offer a glimpse of that.

That allows straight talking Farage through the door, he doesn't need huge complicated policies, he needs straight talk, whether he can deliver on it is the question.

Your point about taxes is complicated and along with border control, I think will be the key points in the next GE. Personally, I do not see tax hikes as a silver bullet for public services, it is the opposite. We need public services to be improved, throwing money at the problem without fixing the route cause of deterioration within the service is not a solution. Most public services need to be dragged into the modern day, as an example making services 7 day opening, with longer opening hours etc. This would create more jobs and bring with it immediate perceived benefits. Tax increases for improved services should be a vote winner, taxes for services that do not deliver, is a vote loser.

This is what Farage is hinting at, service improvement, not just taxing his way out. I agree as a set of polices presented at the last GE they felt inconsistent when it came to cutting tax and improving services, but he did enough to be different.

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By *exyornotMan
34 weeks ago

halifax

A marxist human rights lawyer - what could go wrong?

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By *ophieslutTV/TS
Forum Mod
34 weeks ago

Central

Inheriting broken Britain and conning themselves that a little tinkering could shift huge improvements. The public were stupid and unrealistic too - you can see this with reform support

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By *eroy1000Man
34 weeks ago

milton keynes


"After the events of the last week I checked back at the text of Starmer’s first speech as PM on 5 July 2024.

Looking at it now it’s laughable.

Surely the swiftest fall of any government in living memory. They’ve gone from all these promises to spending their time dealing with today’s scandal and worrying about how they can stop Reform. All in the space of a year.

But where did it go wrong for them?

Here are some highlights from that speech:

“My government will serve you.

Politics can be a force for good. We will show that.

It’s time to get a hold of the tiller, set the course, and steer for calmer waters.

I said that we needed to restore trust in politics and public service.

We have begun a new chapter in our country.

A chapter of hope, of renewal, of change.

And we will unite our country.

We will serve you all.

And we will do it with integrity, with decency, with calm and with resolve”."

As has been mentioned, labour won the GE largely because they were not the Tories. Unfortunately since then they seem to be determined to show they can be just as bad as the Tories. Some key points they promised are not going great. Things like an end to self serving politicians and sleaze, growing the economy and stopping the small boats have not been great. The slight hope for them is that time is still on their side to get things sorted

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By *hetalkingstoveMan
34 weeks ago

London


"A marxist human rights lawyer - what could go wrong? "

If only he was a marxist. Might make him interesting.

He's a centrist, in the sense that he doesn't really have any political morals or convictions, or if he does he's too afraid to express them.

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By *regoniansCouple
34 weeks ago

Oundle

It went wrong the day sperm found an egg chez Starmer.

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By *lan157Man
34 weeks ago

a village near Haywards Heath in East Sussex

Starmer was elected on undeliverable promises . One year on he has not smashed the criminal gangs and he is not going to be able to . He dismantled anything that acts as a deterrent to small boat crossings. He can't get a grip on public spending and reduce it to a level that is affordable from reasonable taxation and responsible borrowing. He can't get a grip on lawlessness and crime in the UK. He can't even stop illegal use of electric powered motorcycles purporting to be electric cycles . He wants to build thousands of homes but owns no land or house building capability and wants house prices to come down when clearly house builders are not going to build houses that reduce their returns and will delay new builds to keep prices up. He was doomed from the moment he thought it entirely reasonable that he could accept gifts of spectacles and clothes from a wealthy benefactor.

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By *9alMan
34 weeks ago

Bridgend


"A marxist human rights lawyer - what could go wrong? "

he has ended up more of an unfunny Marx brother than a Marxist

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By *usie pTV/TS
34 weeks ago

taunton

It went wrong when Boris had a social for his birthday under lockdown rules.

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By (user no longer on site)
34 weeks ago

Starmer looks increasingly wobbly, with mounting support for Burnham as PM. So here we are again in familiar territory. Labour get elected with a moderate leader and voter-friendly policies. Then lo and behold their true colours emerge and we get a disastrous lurch to the left.

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By *ecadentDeviantsCouple
34 weeks ago

North West


"Starmer looks increasingly wobbly, with mounting support for Burnham as PM. So here we are again in familiar territory. Labour get elected with a moderate leader and voter-friendly policies. Then lo and behold their true colours emerge and we get a disastrous lurch to the left."

A disastrous out lurch to the left.

That free market has worked so well in literally every element of our society hasn’t it. Water industry doing brilliantly. Energy is cheap as chips. Hospital PPPs have provided great value for money. Privatising services in every public service has improved things greatly. Railways have outstanding services.

Oh no, wait, it’s literally the opposite.

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By *otlovefun42Couple
34 weeks ago

Costa Blanca Spain...


"After the events of the last week I checked back at the text of Starmer’s first speech as PM on 5 July 2024.

Looking at it now it’s laughable.

Surely the swiftest fall of any government in living memory. They’ve gone from all these promises to spending their time dealing with today’s scandal and worrying about how they can stop Reform. All in the space of a year.

But where did it go wrong for them?

Here are some highlights from that speech:

“My government will serve you.

Politics can be a force for good. We will show that.

It’s time to get a hold of the tiller, set the course, and steer for calmer waters.

I said that we needed to restore trust in politics and public service.

We have begun a new chapter in our country.

A chapter of hope, of renewal, of change.

And we will unite our country.

We will serve you all.

And we will do it with integrity, with decency, with calm and with resolve”.

As has been mentioned, labour won the GE largely because they were not the Tories. Unfortunately since then they seem to be determined to show they can be just as bad as the Tories. Some key points they promised are not going great. Things like an end to self serving politicians and sleaze, growing the economy and stopping the small boats have not been great. The slight hope for them is that time is still on their side to get things sorted "

How can they "get things sorted" when every policy is digging a deeper hole?

Higher taxation = lower investment = less jobs = lower (or no) growth = higher taxation and so the doom loop continues.

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By *hief ScoutMan
34 weeks ago

Middx/Herts borders-ish or thereabouts !

Unlike 1997 when they were offering something different, Labour got in fourteen months ago purely because everyone was sick & tired of the other mob. Any incoming Government deserves the benefit of the doubt for the first year or so. But have this lot actually got ANYTHING right yet ?

I look at the front benches of both the main parties, and all I see are Z-listers and amateurs, people who haven't got a fucking clue what they're doing. Where are the likes of Thatcher, Benn, Jenkins, Wilson, Whitelaw etc, the political giants of days gone by when you need them ? You've got the fag-ends of the Blair-Brown years in key positions (ie Lammy, Cooper), nothing fresh on offer there. In my opinion the only front bencher who seems to have some idea is Wes Streeting.

The Conservatives are so far off the pace it's embarrassing. Main problem is the woman who would have been a decent leader lost her seat at last election, namely Penny Mordaunt. Indeed, I felt she should have got the top job after Boris. I said to people when she was in the last two that Truss would be a fucking disaster if she got in. From that moment they had NO chance of being re-elected. (And she killed Queenie into the bargain 😆).

And as for our beloved Prime Minister ? Wooden, dull, patronising, and incompetent. And that's on a good day. I'm reminded of the episode of BlackAdder when Baldrick runs as MP for Dunny-on-the-Wold. "We in the Adder Party are fighting this campaign on issues, not personalities." "And why's that then ?" "Because our candidate doesn't have a personality". Enough said.

But the most important person in Government isn't the PM. It's the Chancellor. And if the person allegedly looking after the country's money isn't up to the job, then we're totally bollocksed. Yeah, right.

So this leaves the country sick to the back teeth of the two main parties, and as things are currently heading with the likelihood of a totally untried option in control in four years' time. Now, I've always believed you can't stick two dozen countries with different needs, values, aims, economic systems into a one-size-fits-all situation and expect it to work, and on that basis I voted "out" coming up to ten years ago and would do so again every day of the week. So while I remain grateful to Farage for that, he needs to show and develop a LOT more policy wise before he begins to earn any credibility.

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By *ingdomNightTimePleasuresMan
34 weeks ago

nearby

Even the guardian seem to have turned on him.

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By (user no longer on site)
34 weeks ago


"Starmer looks increasingly wobbly, with mounting support for Burnham as PM. So here we are again in familiar territory. Labour get elected with a moderate leader and voter-friendly policies. Then lo and behold their true colours emerge and we get a disastrous lurch to the left.

A disastrous out lurch to the left.

That free market has worked so well in literally every element of our society hasn’t it. Water industry doing brilliantly. Energy is cheap as chips. Hospital PPPs have provided great value for money. Privatising services in every public service has improved things greatly. Railways have outstanding services.

Oh no, wait, it’s literally the opposite."

Always room for improvement but things are nowhere nears as bad as they would be under state run principles, especially under the Socialists.

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By *octor ProdMan
34 weeks ago

Constantly Travelling With Work

Being in the pay of Israel and big business. I hope his fall is soon and he is humiliated

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By *eroy1000Man
34 weeks ago

milton keynes


"After the events of the last week I checked back at the text of Starmer’s first speech as PM on 5 July 2024.

Looking at it now it’s laughable.

Surely the swiftest fall of any government in living memory. They’ve gone from all these promises to spending their time dealing with today’s scandal and worrying about how they can stop Reform. All in the space of a year.

But where did it go wrong for them?

Here are some highlights from that speech:

“My government will serve you.

Politics can be a force for good. We will show that.

It’s time to get a hold of the tiller, set the course, and steer for calmer waters.

I said that we needed to restore trust in politics and public service.

We have begun a new chapter in our country.

A chapter of hope, of renewal, of change.

And we will unite our country.

We will serve you all.

And we will do it with integrity, with decency, with calm and with resolve”.

As has been mentioned, labour won the GE largely because they were not the Tories. Unfortunately since then they seem to be determined to show they can be just as bad as the Tories. Some key points they promised are not going great. Things like an end to self serving politicians and sleaze, growing the economy and stopping the small boats have not been great. The slight hope for them is that time is still on their side to get things sorted

How can they "get things sorted" when every policy is digging a deeper hole?

Higher taxation = lower investment = less jobs = lower (or no) growth = higher taxation and so the doom loop continues."

If they carry on as they are, then yes I agree it will continue to dig the hole deeper. However as they have 4 years left, they have time to change policy. It will mean they will basically have to admit they have got things wrong and I'm sure politicians can find a way of doing that without looking to bad. Thing is will they bite the bullet or carry on regardless

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By *estivalMan
33 weeks ago

borehamwood

Where did it go wrong thats easy when the tool maker shagged his mrs instead of having a wank

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By *teveuk77Man
33 weeks ago

uk


"Two ministers resigned, one for corruption, one for tax fraud. Ambassador, also a previous mortgage fraudster sacked for links to sex offender.

Just the autumn budget from the fake CV economist.

Labour are toast. "

Which one resigned for tax fraud?!

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By *ellhungvweMan
33 weeks ago

Cheltenham

You can’t take over any organisation without a plan as to how you are going to change it and then hit the ground running. That goes for CEOs joining companies, managers going into new football clubs and politicians entering Number 10.

Those first few weeks give you the luxury of making difficult changes.

Starmer didn’t use those first few weeks. He didn’t know what he wanted to do when he got power.

He set up committees and planning groups. He let the bureaucracy form. He wasted the opportunity to hit the ground running.

He is now hostage to “events, dear boy, events” and it will be the same for the rest of the parliament.

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By *ill69888Couple
33 weeks ago

Bath

Steamer was a Trojan horse to get Labour into power after the calamitous Corbyn. He was seen as the safe pair of hands. Problem is, he is a 2nd rate human rights lawyer with pretty much zero political instinct. That and the fact he has many talent free bods in his cabinet, it was never going to work out for Labour. Steamer’s judge of character is poor, very poor. Transport sec fired for previous fraud conviction. Anti corruption minister is on charges for corruption. Former business sec lied about being a solicitor. Chancellor lied about her CV. Rayner tried to fiddle her tax liability and the US Ambassador (appointed by Steamer) has resigned after a few months because of widely known friendship with a horrific sex offender.….. the stench of sleaze about Lord Alli’s gifts to steamer, his wife and Rayner still hangs around too. That and the economy tanking, it doesn’t paint a rosy picture.

Basically, they are a party of protest and don’t have a clue about how to run the country. It’s 6th form politics.

Yes, the Tories were awful but to be honest, the way Labour have folded like a deckchair in the past 14 months is quite incredible.

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By *lan157Man
33 weeks ago

a village near Haywards Heath in East Sussex


"Two ministers resigned, one for corruption, one for tax fraud. Ambassador, also a previous mortgage fraudster sacked for links to sex offender.

Just the autumn budget from the fake CV economist.

Labour are toast.

Which one resigned for tax fraud?!"

I think you know who.I will be interested to know ,in due course , what penalty the HMRC will levy on her for false declaration and underpayment of tax . It can be 100 %.

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By *tarcrossed_SwingersCouple
33 weeks ago

Leicester

Starmer failed before he started by making false promises he didn't have to make. Labour won the election by a landslide and would still have done well if he was brutally honest about what needed to happen to bring change. Yes a few wouldn't like hearing it but it's better than being lied too constantly!

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By *uietbloke67Man
33 weeks ago

outside your bedroom window ;-)

Has it went wrong?

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By *m389Man
33 weeks ago

Magherafelt

It feels like he's always just gauging what way the wind is blowing and then putting out some meaningless statement that does nothing.

He feels like the kind of person who, if saw a house burning down wouldn't try to out with water but instead set up a committee to discuss it.

And in the aftermath would brag about how he set up an elite taskforce to tackle house fires.

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By *9alMan
33 weeks ago

Bridgend


"Has it went wrong?"

I dont think anyone could say its been a good year, Peter Mandelson is the latest in a long list of self inflicted damage

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By *ingdomNightTimePleasuresMan
33 weeks ago

nearby

The new housing minister needs to get a grip on these 300k a year new homes Rayner promised

Government figures show 153,910 homes completed in 2024, a 5.8% drop from 2023, and a further decline in first and second quarters of 2025.

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By *CExeCouple
33 weeks ago

Hong-Kong/Exeter

The Tories were shite, but Labour are beyond pathetic. They are well and truly the new nasty party. A freshly laid turd has more economic nouse than the charlatan in no 11 and I'd rather buy a used car from Lovejoy than trust a single word this mendacious weasel of a Prime Minister says.

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By *CExeCouple
33 weeks ago

Hong-Kong/Exeter


"Two ministers resigned, one for corruption, one for tax fraud. Ambassador, also a previous mortgage fraudster sacked for links to sex offender.

Just the autumn budget from the fake CV economist.

Labour are toast.

Which one resigned for tax fraud?!

I think you know who.I will be interested to know ,in due course , what penalty the HMRC will levy on her for false declaration and underpayment of tax . It can be 100 %."

I think a bigger concern is if the OPG get involved over her using her son's trust's capital to buy a share of the house that has had an artificially inflated value. The house value was way over comparable properties on the street....That's 'making a false representation in order to make a financial gain'. Fraud plain and simple.

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By *uietbloke67Man
33 weeks ago

outside your bedroom window ;-)


"Has it went wrong?

I dont think anyone could say its been a good year, Peter Mandelson is the latest in a long list of self inflicted damage "

Still far from going wrong though. Euro deal done, sensible if still awaiting the results on immigration. Both legal and illegal, defence spending growing there are positives.

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By *rDiscretionXXXMan
33 weeks ago

Gilfach


"Has it went wrong?"


"I dont think anyone could say its been a good year, Peter Mandelson is the latest in a long list of self inflicted damage"


"Still far from going wrong though. Euro deal done, sensible if still awaiting the results on immigration. Both legal and illegal, defence spending growing there are positives."

I never thought I'd see a Labour supporter saying that an increase in defence spending was something to be celebrated.

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By *ingdomNightTimePleasuresMan
33 weeks ago

nearby


"Has it went wrong?

I dont think anyone could say its been a good year, Peter Mandelson is the latest in a long list of self inflicted damage

Still far from going wrong though. Euro deal done, sensible if still awaiting the results on immigration. Both legal and illegal, defence spending growing there are positives."

More businesses closing than opening

New home delivery down

Small boat arrivals up

Rising unemployment

Reform gaining

Been told by senior labours to stop fucking up and he’s going to ‘address the nation’ apparently

Dead man’s shoes

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By *ary_ArgyllMan
33 weeks ago

Argyll

Starmer was always more of a manager than a leader. He doesn't seem to have a clear vision of where the country should be heading so it's not altogether surprising that he's wasted a huge Labour landslide.

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By *ecadentDeviantsCouple
33 weeks ago

North West

Richard Burgon: "I think it's inevitable that if May's elections go as people predict and the opinion polls predict, then I think Starmer will be gone at that time.

"In terms of where we are now, it feels like we're years and years into an unpopular government rather than a year into a government that's just got rid of the Conservatives.

"We're losing votes to the left, we're going to be losing seats to the right."

Like or loathe Burgon and left wing politics but he’s spot on with his analysis of Starmer’s Labour there.

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By *uietbloke67Man
33 weeks ago

outside your bedroom window ;-)


"

Richard Burgon: "I think it's inevitable that if May's elections go as people predict and the opinion polls predict, then I think Starmer will be gone at that time.

"In terms of where we are now, it feels like we're years and years into an unpopular government rather than a year into a government that's just got rid of the Conservatives.

"We're losing votes to the left, we're going to be losing seats to the right."

Like or loathe Burgon and left wing politics but he’s spot on with his analysis of Starmer’s Labour there."

Is he though, or is the noise just louder from the left and right. Historically the UK has been pretty centre ground moving slightly left or right dependant on candidates.

Do we really want to be changing PMs every 18 months, is that good for the countries as a whole.

Its not football management, it is people's lives we are dealing with.

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By *otMe66Man
33 weeks ago

Terra Firma


"

Richard Burgon: "I think it's inevitable that if May's elections go as people predict and the opinion polls predict, then I think Starmer will be gone at that time.

"In terms of where we are now, it feels like we're years and years into an unpopular government rather than a year into a government that's just got rid of the Conservatives.

"We're losing votes to the left, we're going to be losing seats to the right."

Like or loathe Burgon and left wing politics but he’s spot on with his analysis of Starmer’s Labour there.

Is he though, or is the noise just louder from the left and right. Historically the UK has been pretty centre ground moving slightly left or right dependant on candidates.

Do we really want to be changing PMs every 18 months, is that good for the countries as a whole.

Its not football management, it is people's lives we are dealing with."

Yes, we do need a new PM. Why keep hold of someone who has lost the trust of both the country and his own party? Every decision he has made or initiative he has touched has had to be stopped or reversed. Delivered nothing and will continue to be divisive, he should go.

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By *ellhungvweMan
33 weeks ago

Cheltenham


"

Richard Burgon: "I think it's inevitable that if May's elections go as people predict and the opinion polls predict, then I think Starmer will be gone at that time.

"In terms of where we are now, it feels like we're years and years into an unpopular government rather than a year into a government that's just got rid of the Conservatives.

"We're losing votes to the left, we're going to be losing seats to the right."

Like or loathe Burgon and left wing politics but he’s spot on with his analysis of Starmer’s Labour there.

Is he though, or is the noise just louder from the left and right. Historically the UK has been pretty centre ground moving slightly left or right dependant on candidates.

Do we really want to be changing PMs every 18 months, is that good for the countries as a whole.

Its not football management, it is people's lives we are dealing with."

I agree. The worst thing for the country would be to change the PM now. Labour has failed to take advantage of their honeymoon period and that’s totally on Starmer but replacing him would just repeat the mess of the Tories over the last five years. Let him run his course and we can judge at the next election.

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By *otMe66Man
33 weeks ago

Terra Firma


"

Richard Burgon: "I think it's inevitable that if May's elections go as people predict and the opinion polls predict, then I think Starmer will be gone at that time.

"In terms of where we are now, it feels like we're years and years into an unpopular government rather than a year into a government that's just got rid of the Conservatives.

"We're losing votes to the left, we're going to be losing seats to the right."

Like or loathe Burgon and left wing politics but he’s spot on with his analysis of Starmer’s Labour there.

Is he though, or is the noise just louder from the left and right. Historically the UK has been pretty centre ground moving slightly left or right dependant on candidates.

Do we really want to be changing PMs every 18 months, is that good for the countries as a whole.

Its not football management, it is people's lives we are dealing with.

I agree. The worst thing for the country would be to change the PM now. Labour has failed to take advantage of their honeymoon period and that’s totally on Starmer but replacing him would just repeat the mess of the Tories over the last five years. Let him run his course and we can judge at the next election."

Why would it be putting us in a worse position and not a stronger position? I think the markets would support a move, and it will help soften the budget.

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By *ellhungvweMan
33 weeks ago

Cheltenham


"

Richard Burgon: "I think it's inevitable that if May's elections go as people predict and the opinion polls predict, then I think Starmer will be gone at that time.

"In terms of where we are now, it feels like we're years and years into an unpopular government rather than a year into a government that's just got rid of the Conservatives.

"We're losing votes to the left, we're going to be losing seats to the right."

Like or loathe Burgon and left wing politics but he’s spot on with his analysis of Starmer’s Labour there.

Is he though, or is the noise just louder from the left and right. Historically the UK has been pretty centre ground moving slightly left or right dependant on candidates.

Do we really want to be changing PMs every 18 months, is that good for the countries as a whole.

Its not football management, it is people's lives we are dealing with.

I agree. The worst thing for the country would be to change the PM now. Labour has failed to take advantage of their honeymoon period and that’s totally on Starmer but replacing him would just repeat the mess of the Tories over the last five years. Let him run his course and we can judge at the next election.

Why would it be putting us in a worse position and not a stronger position? I think the markets would support a move, and it will help soften the budget. "

We have no idea who would get the job. You got a Corbyn sympathiser in there and that won’t be the case.

We have to break this habit of wanting change all the time.

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By *otMe66Man
33 weeks ago

Terra Firma


"

Richard Burgon: "I think it's inevitable that if May's elections go as people predict and the opinion polls predict, then I think Starmer will be gone at that time.

"In terms of where we are now, it feels like we're years and years into an unpopular government rather than a year into a government that's just got rid of the Conservatives.

"We're losing votes to the left, we're going to be losing seats to the right."

Like or loathe Burgon and left wing politics but he’s spot on with his analysis of Starmer’s Labour there.

Is he though, or is the noise just louder from the left and right. Historically the UK has been pretty centre ground moving slightly left or right dependant on candidates.

Do we really want to be changing PMs every 18 months, is that good for the countries as a whole.

Its not football management, it is people's lives we are dealing with.

I agree. The worst thing for the country would be to change the PM now. Labour has failed to take advantage of their honeymoon period and that’s totally on Starmer but replacing him would just repeat the mess of the Tories over the last five years. Let him run his course and we can judge at the next election.

Why would it be putting us in a worse position and not a stronger position? I think the markets would support a move, and it will help soften the budget.

We have no idea who would get the job. You got a Corbyn sympathiser in there and that won’t be the case.

We have to break this habit of wanting change all the time."

Fair point on the next in line, who would be that Corbyn type though?

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By *ellhungvweMan
33 weeks ago

Cheltenham


"

We have no idea who would get the job. You got a Corbyn sympathiser in there and that won’t be the case.

We have to break this habit of wanting change all the time.

Fair point on the next in line, who would be that Corbyn type though? "

The only credible candidate who wouldn’t spook the markets would be Streeting but he is to the right of the party and most activists/members are to the left.

They know that a change now would likely be their only chance to get a left of field candidate holding onto the reigns of power for a long time. They can’t do it through a general election ballot box. The party will go to the left.

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By *otMe66Man
33 weeks ago

Terra Firma


"

We have no idea who would get the job. You got a Corbyn sympathiser in there and that won’t be the case.

We have to break this habit of wanting change all the time.

Fair point on the next in line, who would be that Corbyn type though?

The only credible candidate who wouldn’t spook the markets would be Streeting but he is to the right of the party and most activists/members are to the left.

They know that a change now would likely be their only chance to get a left of field candidate holding onto the reigns of power for a long time. They can’t do it through a general election ballot box. The party will go to the left."

I suspected that shift early on, but I have thought it less likely over the last 12 months. There is a shift to the right generally across the country, I think if Labour went left they will lose the next GE and their chances of power again for 10 years.

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By *ellhungvweMan
33 weeks ago

Cheltenham


"

We have no idea who would get the job. You got a Corbyn sympathiser in there and that won’t be the case.

We have to break this habit of wanting change all the time.

Fair point on the next in line, who would be that Corbyn type though?

The only credible candidate who wouldn’t spook the markets would be Streeting but he is to the right of the party and most activists/members are to the left.

They know that a change now would likely be their only chance to get a left of field candidate holding onto the reigns of power for a long time. They can’t do it through a general election ballot box. The party will go to the left.

I suspected that shift early on, but I have thought it less likely over the last 12 months. There is a shift to the right generally across the country, I think if Labour went left they will lose the next GE and their chances of power again for 10 years."

And that is why they will go left. They know they won’t win the next election so now is the only time they can get power.

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By *ecadentDeviantsCouple
33 weeks ago

North West

I don’t know if they will go left, as Starmer has marginalised the left of the Labour Party, so I don’t think so.

They should go left though. But when I say ‘Left’, I don’t mean the outer limits a la Michael Foot scrapping the nukes & so on. Just solid centre left policies.

Don’t see the point in being Reform Lite, why would people vote for that when they can have the real thing?

Labour should be putting clearer water between themselves & Reform.

Pointing out Reform are against Workers rights, pursuing a policy of taxing the rich, nationalisation where appropriate & so on.

If that fails & is rejected by the electorate at least they have stayed closer to their true core principles instead of this weird mish mash where they are trying to be all things to all people.

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By *ingdomNightTimePleasuresMan
33 weeks ago

nearby

26 November will be the last nail

Government borrowing up, cost of borrowing up, failing policies, more tax, more businesses closing than opening, Reeves has nowhere to hide

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By *otMe66Man
33 weeks ago

Terra Firma


"I don’t know if they will go left, as Starmer has marginalised the left of the Labour Party, so I don’t think so.

They should go left though. But when I say ‘Left’, I don’t mean the outer limits a la Michael Foot scrapping the nukes & so on. Just solid centre left policies.

Don’t see the point in being Reform Lite, why would people vote for that when they can have the real thing?

Labour should be putting clearer water between themselves & Reform.

Pointing out Reform are against Workers rights, pursuing a policy of taxing the rich, nationalisation where appropriate & so on.

If that fails & is rejected by the electorate at least they have stayed closer to their true core principles instead of this weird mish mash where they are trying to be all things to all people."

I would imagine that would damage labour far too much. The idea of taxing the rich, taxing wealth has been a hard left mantra that has risen up through the group, is it supported by others outside of the hard left? Nationalisation done the right way not the old way, could work. The mood of the country has moved right and it could be argued that this governments policies have played a part in that, going further left could be a disaster.

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By *ecadentDeviantsCouple
33 weeks ago

North West


"I don’t know if they will go left, as Starmer has marginalised the left of the Labour Party, so I don’t think so.

They should go left though. But when I say ‘Left’, I don’t mean the outer limits a la Michael Foot scrapping the nukes & so on. Just solid centre left policies.

Don’t see the point in being Reform Lite, why would people vote for that when they can have the real thing?

Labour should be putting clearer water between themselves & Reform.

Pointing out Reform are against Workers rights, pursuing a policy of taxing the rich, nationalisation where appropriate & so on.

If that fails & is rejected by the electorate at least they have stayed closer to their true core principles instead of this weird mish mash where they are trying to be all things to all people.

I would imagine that would damage labour far too much. The idea of taxing the rich, taxing wealth has been a hard left mantra that has risen up through the group, is it supported by others outside of the hard left? Nationalisation done the right way not the old way, could work. The mood of the country has moved right and it could be argued that this governments policies have played a part in that, going further left could be a disaster. "

Would you support or oppose introducing a wealth tax of 2% on wealth above £10 million?

(YouGov, 8.7.25)

Strongly support

49%

Somewhat support

26%

Somewhat oppose

7%

Strongly oppose

6%

Don't know

12%

Taxing wealth is a popular policy.

We saw with Corbyn’s 2017 vote against May, without the distraction of Brexit, he wasn’t too far away was he.

I suppose it comes down to what the proles who are under the cosh out there think is more important to them: workers rights & redistribution of wealth or trying to get a vice like grip on immigration. That assumes of course that a centre left proposal would be a lot more lax on immigration.

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By *ellhungvweMan
33 weeks ago

Cheltenham


"I don’t know if they will go left, as Starmer has marginalised the left of the Labour Party, so I don’t think so.

They should go left though. But when I say ‘Left’, I don’t mean the outer limits a la Michael Foot scrapping the nukes & so on. Just solid centre left policies.

Don’t see the point in being Reform Lite, why would people vote for that when they can have the real thing?

Labour should be putting clearer water between themselves & Reform.

Pointing out Reform are against Workers rights, pursuing a policy of taxing the rich, nationalisation where appropriate & so on.

If that fails & is rejected by the electorate at least they have stayed closer to their true core principles instead of this weird mish mash where they are trying to be all things to all people.

I would imagine that would damage labour far too much. The idea of taxing the rich, taxing wealth has been a hard left mantra that has risen up through the group, is it supported by others outside of the hard left? Nationalisation done the right way not the old way, could work. The mood of the country has moved right and it could be argued that this governments policies have played a part in that, going further left could be a disaster. "

The point is that if they got rid of Starmer you are not voting for his immediate replacement, the next PM. Labour members are. They don’t see the world the same way as you. You need to look at the world through their eyes not yours.

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By *aughtystaffs60Couple
33 weeks ago

Staffordshire


"Farage will not unite this country."

What might though is a proper fit for purpose electoral system which Reform are promising.

It will be very much in their interest to do that if they are elected and avoid the pitfals of the 2 party state we live in now.

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By *ecadentDeviantsCouple
33 weeks ago

North West


"Farage will not unite this country.

What might though is a proper fit for purpose electoral system which Reform are promising.

It will be very much in their interest to do that if they are elected and avoid the pitfals of the 2 party state we live in now."

Do we presume that Reform will pursue their policy of introducing PR though, given that PR wouldn’t deliver them a majority on circa 30% of the vote? Or would Farage become an overnight FPTP evangelist, whilst quietly dropping his moans that parties polling in the low 30s percentage wise have no mandate?

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By *otMe66Man
33 weeks ago

Terra Firma

[Removed by poster at 15/09/25 14:55:58]

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By *otMe66Man
33 weeks ago

Terra Firma


"I don’t know if they will go left, as Starmer has marginalised the left of the Labour Party, so I don’t think so.

They should go left though. But when I say ‘Left’, I don’t mean the outer limits a la Michael Foot scrapping the nukes & so on. Just solid centre left policies.

Don’t see the point in being Reform Lite, why would people vote for that when they can have the real thing?

Labour should be putting clearer water between themselves & Reform.

Pointing out Reform are against Workers rights, pursuing a policy of taxing the rich, nationalisation where appropriate & so on.

If that fails & is rejected by the electorate at least they have stayed closer to their true core principles instead of this weird mish mash where they are trying to be all things to all people.

I would imagine that would damage labour far too much. The idea of taxing the rich, taxing wealth has been a hard left mantra that has risen up through the group, is it supported by others outside of the hard left? Nationalisation done the right way not the old way, could work. The mood of the country has moved right and it could be argued that this governments policies have played a part in that, going further left could be a disaster.

The point is that if they got rid of Starmer you are not voting for his immediate replacement, the next PM. Labour members are. They don’t see the world the same way as you. You need to look at the world through their eyes not yours."

True, but how do the hard left play this out, why wouldn't they get behind Corbyn's new party, and what would they hope to achieve knowing they are not going to get a second term?

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By *ellhungvweMan
33 weeks ago

Cheltenham


"I don’t know if they will go left, as Starmer has marginalised the left of the Labour Party, so I don’t think so.

They should go left though. But when I say ‘Left’, I don’t mean the outer limits a la Michael Foot scrapping the nukes & so on. Just solid centre left policies.

Don’t see the point in being Reform Lite, why would people vote for that when they can have the real thing?

Labour should be putting clearer water between themselves & Reform.

Pointing out Reform are against Workers rights, pursuing a policy of taxing the rich, nationalisation where appropriate & so on.

If that fails & is rejected by the electorate at least they have stayed closer to their true core principles instead of this weird mish mash where they are trying to be all things to all people.

I would imagine that would damage labour far too much. The idea of taxing the rich, taxing wealth has been a hard left mantra that has risen up through the group, is it supported by others outside of the hard left? Nationalisation done the right way not the old way, could work. The mood of the country has moved right and it could be argued that this governments policies have played a part in that, going further left could be a disaster.

The point is that if they got rid of Starmer you are not voting for his immediate replacement, the next PM. Labour members are. They don’t see the world the same way as you. You need to look at the world through their eyes not yours.

True, but how do the hard left play this out, why wouldn't they get behind Corbyn's new party, and what would they hope to achieve knowing they are not going to get a second term? "

I go back to my previous answer. If I was hard left I would agitating hard to get him replaced. I would know that _my_ policies are very unlikely to win a majority at an election so this would be the only time I could get them implemented. I don’t care about the down stream consequences for the wider party because _my_ policies were never going to win next time anyway. Changing Starmer would be the only way I could get someone with _my_ beliefs into power. It’s now or never.

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By *aughtystaffs60Couple
33 weeks ago

Staffordshire


"Farage will not unite this country.

What might though is a proper fit for purpose electoral system which Reform are promising.

It will be very much in their interest to do that if they are elected and avoid the pitfals of the 2 party state we live in now.

Do we presume that Reform will pursue their policy of introducing PR though, given that PR wouldn’t deliver them a majority on circa 30% of the vote? Or would Farage become an overnight FPTP evangelist, whilst quietly dropping his moans that parties polling in the low 30s percentage wise have no mandate?

"

Think about it. Why would Reform go back on the promise to reform electoral system. Staying with FPTP would not be in their interests as they know that if they did stick with it they would be consigning themselves to no power again as the risk to them if they fail would be too great.

They would be extremely stupid to stick with FPTP. So I suppose you could argue they maybe they are as stupid as the rest of the politicians.

I am think we are going to find out in 2029 or maybe before if this government fails before then.

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By *on CarlosMan
33 weeks ago

Birkenhead


"After the events of the last week I checked back at the text of Starmer’s first speech as PM on 5 July 2024.

Looking at it now it’s laughable.

Surely the swiftest fall of any government in living memory. They’ve gone from all these promises to spending their time dealing with today’s scandal and worrying about how they can stop Reform. All in the space of a year.

But where did it go wrong for them?

Here are some highlights from that speech:

“My government will serve you.

Politics can be a force for good. We will show that.

It’s time to get a hold of the tiller, set the course, and steer for calmer waters.

I said that we needed to restore trust in politics and public service.

We have begun a new chapter in our country.

A chapter of hope, of renewal, of change.

And we will unite our country.

We will serve you all.

And we will do it with integrity, with decency, with calm and with resolve”."

Labour crash the economy. It’s in their DNA as is raising taxes on ordinary people. It’s what they’ve always done. Nobody should be surprised.

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By *estivalMan
33 weeks ago

borehamwood


"Has it went wrong?

I dont think anyone could say its been a good year, Peter Mandelson is the latest in a long list of self inflicted damage

Still far from going wrong though. Euro deal done, sensible if still awaiting the results on immigration. Both legal and illegal, defence spending growing there are positives.

I never thought I'd see a Labour supporter saying that an increase in defence spending was something to be celebrated."
your thinking of old labour voters its blairites these days

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By *ichaeltontineMan
33 weeks ago

SWANSEA

Starmer is a bureaucrat. Not a good theoretician or a people person. He was chosen as Party Leader because he was NOT Jeremy Corbyn.

He needs to stand down and let someone else try to enable changes. Personally I think the govn needs to show it has ordinary people as 1st priority. Once I heard that Starmer was accepting State money for his wife's dresses and those Taylor Swift freebies ... well that is abuse of power.

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By *lan157Man
33 weeks ago

a village near Haywards Heath in East Sussex


"After the events of the last week I checked back at the text of Starmer’s first speech as PM on 5 July 2024.

Looking at it now it’s laughable.

Surely the swiftest fall of any government in living memory. They’ve gone from all these promises to spending their time dealing with today’s scandal and worrying about how they can stop Reform. All in the space of a year.

But where did it go wrong for them?

Here are some highlights from that speech:

“My government will serve you.

Politics can be a force for good. We will show that.

It’s time to get a hold of the tiller, set the course, and steer for calmer waters.

I said that we needed to restore trust in politics and public service.

We have begun a new chapter in our country.

A chapter of hope, of renewal, of change.

And we will unite our country.

We will serve you all.

And we will do it with integrity, with decency, with calm and with resolve”.

Labour crash the economy. It’s in their DNA as is raising taxes on ordinary people. It’s what they’ve always done. Nobody should be surprised. "

I am thinking the same . Most people try hard to live within their means and many struggle to do this. Labour seeks to see higher taxation as an end in itself. Of course we all want better state services and the nations needs have changed over time. I don't think future generations will thank us for creating so much public debt that the interest cost is such a high proportion of public spending either.

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By (user no longer on site)
33 weeks ago


"Labour do not have a strong opposition so given time they may be able to recover "
..

I thought Reform was a strong opposition?.Media opposition at least if not yet elected MP's.

Or at least seems to be labours opposition!

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By *enda83Man
33 weeks ago

north

He’s always been the scum of the earth it’s just more apparent to more people now

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By *ornucopiaMan
33 weeks ago

Bexley


"He’s always been the scum of the earth it’s just more apparent to more people now "

'Scum of the earth' is surely a bit over the top for someone you don't like for some reason or other!

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By *oubleswing2019Man
33 weeks ago

Colchester


"But where did it go wrong for them?"

When they tried to appeal to both ends of the political spectrum, and served neither in return.

Farage, love him or loathe him (I loathe) speaks with conviction. Whether he really believes it (and I don't think he does, not in the slightest, as he is demagogue), he at least speak with conviction.

The current Labour Party have forgotten who they were.

Hopefully JC will remind them in time.

Alas, JC does not speak with much conviction either, but that's what is needed at the other end of the spectrum.

(It's also needed in the middle too by the Lib Dems.)

At the moment, The Greens seem to be moving in to the position occupied by Labour traditionally, and good on them.

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