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"Have they said how they're going to achieve these five things?" Nope | |||
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"If you believe any politicians you're a bit wonky " If you read these forums you'll see a significant amount of support for these dreamers, and the opinion polls indicate a LOT of stupid or gullible British people. Just like brexit they want to believe in fairy tales no matter what the reality will be. | |||
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"When it comes to Reform, just like this government, they will tell people what they know they want to hear. But as we are now seeing with Labour, doing it is nowhere near as easy as saying it. That’s politics, tell the public what they want to hear, win their trust, take power and then reveal the bitter truth, usually with the last government lined up as the scapegoat. Rinse and repeat. The bottom line is a large % of people are concerned about the things Reform talk about. They offer a more direct approach over the big 2 who talk endlessly around a problem without actually committing to it. Conservatives and Labour should take note of what they are doing to upset the voters, and not concentrate on how to topple Reform. " I've asked them to state the anticipated reaction by the EU to leaving the ECHR and the estimated annual cost to the British economy, I assume I'll get lies or bullshit. | |||
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"When it comes to Reform, just like this government, they will tell people what they know they want to hear. But as we are now seeing with Labour, doing it is nowhere near as easy as saying it. That’s politics, tell the public what they want to hear, win their trust, take power and then reveal the bitter truth, usually with the last government lined up as the scapegoat. Rinse and repeat. The bottom line is a large % of people are concerned about the things Reform talk about. They offer a more direct approach over the big 2 who talk endlessly around a problem without actually committing to it. Conservatives and Labour should take note of what they are doing to upset the voters, and not concentrate on how to topple Reform. I've asked them to state the anticipated reaction by the EU to leaving the ECHR and the estimated annual cost to the British economy, I assume I'll get lies or bullshit. " My guess is you will get something back like this: "We can’t confirm the costs yet, as discovery work is still ongoing. However, we are confident that leaving the ECHR will deliver longterm benefits that will outweigh any initial expense. | |||
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"Sorry pressed enter 5 scrap renewable energy subsidies How does anyone believe this utter shite " I don’t believe these claims. But to answer your question, people believe what they want to believe. I’m gonna be quite balanced here if I can. People believed…. Smash the gangs Stop the boats They believed…. We have an over ready deal We’ve been in opposition 14 years, we will hit the ground running As I say, people believe what they want to believe. All politicians of all parties lie and make promises they can’t keep. | |||
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"Sorry pressed enter 5 scrap renewable energy subsidies How does anyone believe this utter shite " shock horror a political party bullshitting who would of thought it,if you belive any of them are honest you have been asleep for the past 50 or 60 years | |||
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"Sorry pressed enter 5 scrap renewable energy subsidies How does anyone believe this utter shite shock horror a political party bullshitting who would of thought it,if you belive any of them are honest you have been asleep for the past 50 or 60 years" Most of them will at least have some sort of costed if somewhat sketchy plan for how they plan to achieve their pledged aims | |||
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"I’m not sure people are as concerned about the minutiae as they are about the general thrust of the policies. We all know that the Tories failed. We can all see that Labour is failing. We have carried on switching between them and all we get is continued failure. Reform may fail too. They may not. But we have plenty of evidence that Labour and the Tories will fail so there is little point continuing to stick with them." We will find out in 2029. | |||
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"When it comes to Reform, just like this government, they will tell people what they know they want to hear. But as we are now seeing with Labour, doing it is nowhere near as easy as saying it. That’s politics, tell the public what they want to hear, win their trust, take power and then reveal the bitter truth, usually with the last government lined up as the scapegoat. Rinse and repeat. The bottom line is a large % of people are concerned about the things Reform talk about. They offer a more direct approach over the big 2 who talk endlessly around a problem without actually committing to it. Conservatives and Labour should take note of what they are doing to upset the voters, and not concentrate on how to topple Reform. " All labour said was Change. And yet despite all the good things they are doing it doesn't feel like anything has changed. Still robbing the poorest to pay the rich | |||
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"Sorry pressed enter 5 scrap renewable energy subsidies How does anyone believe this utter shite shock horror a political party bullshitting who would of thought it,if you belive any of them are honest you have been asleep for the past 50 or 60 years Most of them will at least have some sort of costed if somewhat sketchy plan for how they plan to achieve their pledged aims" so basically numbers on the back of a fag packet | |||
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"I’m not sure people are as concerned about the minutiae as they are about the general thrust of the policies. We all know that the Tories failed. We can all see that Labour is failing. We have carried on switching between them and all we get is continued failure. Reform may fail too. They may not. But we have plenty of evidence that Labour and the Tories will fail so there is little point continuing to stick with them." Where's labour failing? I accept that is the narrative but they've done a lot of good stuff. Assisted dying, nationalising rail, free school meals, decriminalized abortion, strengthened workers rights, changed the fiscal rules so they can borrow to invest, the economy grew at the fastest rate in the G7 in Q1 2025. | |||
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"Sorry pressed enter 5 scrap renewable energy subsidies How does anyone believe this utter shite shock horror a political party bullshitting who would of thought it,if you belive any of them are honest you have been asleep for the past 50 or 60 years Most of them will at least have some sort of costed if somewhat sketchy plan for how they plan to achieve their pledged aimsso basically numbers on the back of a fag packet" It's usually a little more detailed than that  | |||
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"5 scrap renewable energy subsidies How does anyone believe this utter shite" Well that last one should be achievable. Whether you think it's a good idea or not, if Reform get a majority they'll be able to scrap those subsidies. | |||
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"Sorry pressed enter 5 scrap renewable energy subsidies How does anyone believe this utter shite shock horror a political party bullshitting who would of thought it,if you belive any of them are honest you have been asleep for the past 50 or 60 years Most of them will at least have some sort of costed if somewhat sketchy plan for how they plan to achieve their pledged aimsso basically numbers on the back of a fag packet" Same as the current economist chancellor. | |||
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"But isn't anyone slightly concerned about the financial damage they WILL do and the fact there's a real chance they might get elected, probably like brexit, by people not bothering to vote ?" Theirs no election for at least 3 years possibly 4. Labour trailed Johnson for at least 2 years then partygate and Truss. Theirs still plenty of time for labour to do well, Nigel to fuck up or both | |||
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"Imagine thinking reform are some sort of alternative solution to Labour and the Tories Proper grassroots movement those multimillionaires backed by billionaires… ‘Yeah, but I've seen him in a pub drinking pints like one of the lads’ " I doubt a lot of people who will vote for them will vote for them just because they ain't labour or tory,a bit like the last general election people voted labour just because they wasn't the torys,and that's turned out to be a shit show,why not vote for someone other than the main two,they won't be getting my vote as I see them being just as fucking useless as the torys and labour | |||
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"Imagine thinking reform are some sort of alternative solution to Labour and the Tories Proper grassroots movement those multimillionaires backed by billionaires… ‘Yeah, but I've seen him in a pub drinking pints like one of the lads’ I doubt a lot of people who will vote for them will vote for them just because they ain't labour or tory,a bit like the last general election people voted labour just because they wasn't the torys,and that's turned out to be a shit show,why not vote for someone other than the main two,they won't be getting my vote as I see them being just as fucking useless as the torys and labour" And like brexit, an abstained vote is as good as voting for them | |||
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"Imagine thinking reform are some sort of alternative solution to Labour and the Tories Proper grassroots movement those multimillionaires backed by billionaires… ‘Yeah, but I've seen him in a pub drinking pints like one of the lads’ I doubt a lot of people who will vote for them will vote for them just because they ain't labour or tory,a bit like the last general election people voted labour just because they wasn't the torys,and that's turned out to be a shit show,why not vote for someone other than the main two,they won't be getting my vote as I see them being just as fucking useless as the torys and labour And like brexit, an abstained vote is as good as voting for them " well who ever has won since 1992 has had my vote then be that labour or the torys, i refuse to vote for peoole who are not gona do fuck all for me, | |||
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"When it comes to Reform, just like this government, they will tell people what they know they want to hear. But as we are now seeing with Labour, doing it is nowhere near as easy as saying it. That’s politics, tell the public what they want to hear, win their trust, take power and then reveal the bitter truth, usually with the last government lined up as the scapegoat. Rinse and repeat. The bottom line is a large % of people are concerned about the things Reform talk about. They offer a more direct approach over the big 2 who talk endlessly around a problem without actually committing to it. Conservatives and Labour should take note of what they are doing to upset the voters, and not concentrate on how to topple Reform. I've asked them to state the anticipated reaction by the EU to leaving the ECHR and the estimated annual cost to the British economy, I assume I'll get lies or bullshit. My guess is you will get something back like this: "We can’t confirm the costs yet, as discovery work is still ongoing. However, we are confident that leaving the ECHR will deliver longterm benefits that will outweigh any initial expense." Leaving the ECHR will essentially tear up The Good Friday Agreement, as well as the TCA, so would lead to a economic issue with The EU & political issue with The EU & The USA* *With Trump in office, likely wouldn't care...but the Irish lobby is very strong across both Democrats & Republicans | |||
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"Imagine thinking reform are some sort of alternative solution to Labour and the Tories Proper grassroots movement those multimillionaires backed by billionaires… ‘Yeah, but I've seen him in a pub drinking pints like one of the lads’ " Isn’t Starmer a millionaire? When was the last time we saw him in a working men’s club having a pint? Or in fact mixing with the public at all? You do realise that Labour’s core demographic nowadays is basically well off urban graduates? | |||
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"When it comes to Reform, just like this government, they will tell people what they know they want to hear. But as we are now seeing with Labour, doing it is nowhere near as easy as saying it. That’s politics, tell the public what they want to hear, win their trust, take power and then reveal the bitter truth, usually with the last government lined up as the scapegoat. Rinse and repeat. The bottom line is a large % of people are concerned about the things Reform talk about. They offer a more direct approach over the big 2 who talk endlessly around a problem without actually committing to it. Conservatives and Labour should take note of what they are doing to upset the voters, and not concentrate on how to topple Reform. I've asked them to state the anticipated reaction by the EU to leaving the ECHR and the estimated annual cost to the British economy, I assume I'll get lies or bullshit. My guess is you will get something back like this: "We can’t confirm the costs yet, as discovery work is still ongoing. However, we are confident that leaving the ECHR will deliver longterm benefits that will outweigh any initial expense. Leaving the ECHR will essentially tear up The Good Friday Agreement, as well as the TCA, so would lead to a economic issue with The EU & political issue with The EU & The USA* *With Trump in office, likely wouldn't care...but the Irish lobby is very strong across both Democrats & Republicans" I think it'd be more catastrophic than than even that. If a government is willing to break international treaties. Business would not see the UK as a safe place to invest because once a government reneges on one law it will be seen as unsafe on all laws | |||
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"As an example "Stop the Boats with our 4 Point Plan Leave the European Convention on Human Rights. Zero illegal immigrants to be resettled in the UK. New Department of Immigration. Pick up illegal migrants out of boats and take them back to France." Does anyone think the EU would just cease all trade and relations with the UK immediately " That is actually legal. If we claim that the boats are overloaded and the occupants are in danger, then we are within the law to return them to their port of embarkation. Surely you're not claiming that France and the EU would illegally put sanctions on the UK for political reasons? | |||
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"As an example "Stop the Boats with our 4 Point Plan Leave the European Convention on Human Rights. Zero illegal immigrants to be resettled in the UK. New Department of Immigration. Pick up illegal migrants out of boats and take them back to France." Does anyone think the EU would just cease all trade and relations with the UK immediately " In fairness to Reform, this kind of ill informed bullshit will work on their core followers. | |||
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"Sorry pressed enter 5 scrap renewable energy subsidies How does anyone believe this utter shite " The voice of tolerance and reason. Maybe other voters think a little deeper than you and analyse costs and impact. All the policies referred to are achievable at a cost . There would also be long term benefits | |||
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"As an example "Stop the Boats with our 4 Point Plan Leave the European Convention on Human Rights. Zero illegal immigrants to be resettled in the UK. New Department of Immigration. Pick up illegal migrants out of boats and take them back to France." Does anyone think the EU would just cease all trade and relations with the UK immediately That is actually legal. If we claim that the boats are overloaded and the occupants are in danger, then we are within the law to return them to their port of embarkation. Surely you're not claiming that France and the EU would illegally put sanctions on the UK for political reasons?" They're not leaving ports | |||
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"As an example "Stop the Boats with our 4 Point Plan Leave the European Convention on Human Rights. Zero illegal immigrants to be resettled in the UK. New Department of Immigration. Pick up illegal migrants out of boats and take them back to France." Does anyone think the EU would just cease all trade and relations with the UK immediately That is actually legal. If we claim that the boats are overloaded and the occupants are in danger, then we are within the law to return them to their port of embarkation. Surely you're not claiming that France and the EU would illegally put sanctions on the UK for political reasons?" If their in UK waters they have to go to the UK UK authorities can't enter French waters without permission, unless you want war | |||
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"Sorry pressed enter 5 scrap renewable energy subsidies How does anyone believe this utter shite The voice of tolerance and reason. Maybe other voters think a little deeper than you and analyse costs and impact. All the policies referred to are achievable at a cost . There would also be long term benefits " Hey Pat, have you defected from the Torys to Reform? | |||
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"Sorry pressed enter 5 scrap renewable energy subsidies How does anyone believe this utter shite The voice of tolerance and reason. Maybe other voters think a little deeper than you and analyse costs and impact. All the policies referred to are achievable at a cost . There would also be long term benefits " Now that's the funniest thing on the Internet today  | |||
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"Imagine thinking reform are some sort of alternative solution to Labour and the Tories Proper grassroots movement those multimillionaires backed by billionaires… ‘Yeah, but I've seen him in a pub drinking pints like one of the lads’ Isn’t Starmer a millionaire? When was the last time we saw him in a working men’s club having a pint? Or in fact mixing with the public at all? You do realise that Labour’s core demographic nowadays is basically well off urban graduates?" Yeah…that’s why I said ‘Labour & the Tories’ | |||
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"Reform's four point plan .... 1) Never 2) Tell 3) The 4) Truth" An element of the electorate seem to like that though. Especially those who voted for other of Farage's endeavours that turned out to be a pack of lies. | |||
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"Reform's four point plan .... 1) Never 2) Tell 3) The 4) Truth An element of the electorate seem to like that though. Especially those who voted for other of Farage's endeavours that turned out to be a pack of lies." An element of the electorate are stuck voting for same party, time and again, with the same result expecting a different outcome from government... that's akin to the definition of insanity | |||
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"Reform's four point plan .... 1) Never 2) Tell 3) The 4) Truth An element of the electorate seem to like that though. Especially those who voted for other of Farage's endeavours that turned out to be a pack of lies. An element of the electorate are stuck voting for same party, time and again, with the same result expecting a different outcome from government... that's akin to the definition of insanity " Probably because there have only been 2 main contenders? | |||
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"Reform's four point plan .... 1) Never 2) Tell 3) The 4) Truth An element of the electorate seem to like that though. Especially those who voted for other of Farage's endeavours that turned out to be a pack of lies. An element of the electorate are stuck voting for same party, time and again, with the same result expecting a different outcome from government... that's akin to the definition of insanity " Also true. I would suggest voting for the ultra bullshit party would be a more extreme version of the bullshit we've had for my lifetime living in the UK. | |||
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"Reform's four point plan .... 1) Never 2) Tell 3) The 4) Truth An element of the electorate seem to like that though. Especially those who voted for other of Farage's endeavours that turned out to be a pack of lies. An element of the electorate are stuck voting for same party, time and again, with the same result expecting a different outcome from government... that's akin to the definition of insanity Also true. I would suggest voting for the ultra bullshit party would be a more extreme version of the bullshit we've had for my lifetime living in the UK." Suggest what you like Johnny boy, you're in the minority once again | |||
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"Reform's four point plan .... 1) Never 2) Tell 3) The 4) Truth An element of the electorate seem to like that though. Especially those who voted for other of Farage's endeavours that turned out to be a pack of lies. An element of the electorate are stuck voting for same party, time and again, with the same result expecting a different outcome from government... that's akin to the definition of insanity Also true. I would suggest voting for the ultra bullshit party would be a more extreme version of the bullshit we've had for my lifetime living in the UK. Suggest what you like Johnny boy, you're in the minority once again " In the minority of what? | |||
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"Fuck the boat people, disgusting garbage" Have you considered voting Reform? | |||
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"Try hanging out near one of these new hotels, see how self righteous you feel then." Much nicer people than Reform voters of course. So yeah. | |||
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"Try hanging out near one of these new hotels, see how self righteous you feel then. Much nicer people than Reform voters of course. So yeah. " Go do it and post results. If you even have a phone to post from afterwards. | |||
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"Try hanging out near one of these new hotels, see how self righteous you feel then. Much nicer people than Reform voters of course. So yeah. Go do it and post results. If you even have a phone to post from afterwards." I have absolutely zero interest in putting myself that close to a group of Reform voters, especially if as you suggest, they're going to rob my phone. | |||
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"Try hanging out near one of these new hotels, see how self righteous you feel then. Much nicer people than Reform voters of course. So yeah. Go do it and post results. If you even have a phone to post from afterwards. I have absolutely zero interest in putting myself that close to a group of Reform voters, especially if as you suggest, they're going to rob my phone. " Trying to be clever because you know those scum in hotels would rob you and leave you for dead. You can't let go of the fact reform are going to stomp your hippie party the next election, I assume you'll be voting for Corbyn's new party too. | |||
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"Try hanging out near one of these new hotels, see how self righteous you feel then. Much nicer people than Reform voters of course. So yeah. Go do it and post results. If you even have a phone to post from afterwards. I have absolutely zero interest in putting myself that close to a group of Reform voters, especially if as you suggest, they're going to rob my phone. Trying to be clever because you know those scum in hotels would rob you and leave you for dead. You can't let go of the fact reform are going to stomp your hippie party the next election, I assume you'll be voting for Corbyn's new party too." I have been in the presence of asylum seekers many times, and I didn't have my possessions taken or left for dead. | |||
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"Try hanging out near one of these new hotels, see how self righteous you feel then. Much nicer people than Reform voters of course. So yeah. Go do it and post results. If you even have a phone to post from afterwards. I have absolutely zero interest in putting myself that close to a group of Reform voters, especially if as you suggest, they're going to rob my phone. Trying to be clever because you know those scum in hotels would rob you and leave you for dead. You can't let go of the fact reform are going to stomp your hippie party the next election, I assume you'll be voting for Corbyn's new party too. I have been in the presence of asylum seekers many times, and I didn't have my possessions taken or left for dead. " Did I ask you? Pipe down Hotel workers are afraid to go into work alone. They've implemented lone worker policies to prevent them being harassed or sexually assaulted. These 'people' deserve to be kept in prisons until they are processed, not housed in our hotels on taxpayer's funding, getting cash in hand jobs for car washes, delivery companies etc. | |||
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"Try hanging out near one of these new hotels, see how self righteous you feel then. Much nicer people than Reform voters of course. So yeah. Go do it and post results. If you even have a phone to post from afterwards. I have absolutely zero interest in putting myself that close to a group of Reform voters, especially if as you suggest, they're going to rob my phone. Trying to be clever because you know those scum in hotels would rob you and leave you for dead. You can't let go of the fact reform are going to stomp your hippie party the next election, I assume you'll be voting for Corbyn's new party too. I have been in the presence of asylum seekers many times, and I didn't have my possessions taken or left for dead. Did I ask you? Pipe down Hotel workers are afraid to go into work alone. They've implemented lone worker policies to prevent them being harassed or sexually assaulted. These 'people' deserve to be kept in prisons until they are processed, not housed in our hotels on taxpayer's funding, getting cash in hand jobs for car washes, delivery companies etc." Why should I pipe down? I have countered your argument with a lived experience. It doesn't fit your narrative so you tell me to pipe down. Very mature. | |||
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"Try hanging out near one of these new hotels, see how self righteous you feel then. Much nicer people than Reform voters of course. So yeah. Go do it and post results. If you even have a phone to post from afterwards. I have absolutely zero interest in putting myself that close to a group of Reform voters, especially if as you suggest, they're going to rob my phone. Trying to be clever because you know those scum in hotels would rob you and leave you for dead. You can't let go of the fact reform are going to stomp your hippie party the next election, I assume you'll be voting for Corbyn's new party too. I have been in the presence of asylum seekers many times, and I didn't have my possessions taken or left for dead. Did I ask you? Pipe down Hotel workers are afraid to go into work alone. They've implemented lone worker policies to prevent them being harassed or sexually assaulted. These 'people' deserve to be kept in prisons until they are processed, not housed in our hotels on taxpayer's funding, getting cash in hand jobs for car washes, delivery companies etc. Why should I pipe down? I have countered your argument with a lived experience. It doesn't fit your narrative so you tell me to pipe down. Very mature. " I agree, I take that back, I apologise for that. You ignored the rest of the post though | |||
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"Try hanging out near one of these new hotels, see how self righteous you feel then. Much nicer people than Reform voters of course. So yeah. Go do it and post results. If you even have a phone to post from afterwards. I have absolutely zero interest in putting myself that close to a group of Reform voters, especially if as you suggest, they're going to rob my phone. Trying to be clever because you know those scum in hotels would rob you and leave you for dead. You can't let go of the fact reform are going to stomp your hippie party the next election, I assume you'll be voting for Corbyn's new party too. I have been in the presence of asylum seekers many times, and I didn't have my possessions taken or left for dead. Did I ask you? Pipe down Hotel workers are afraid to go into work alone. They've implemented lone worker policies to prevent them being harassed or sexually assaulted. These 'people' deserve to be kept in prisons until they are processed, not housed in our hotels on taxpayer's funding, getting cash in hand jobs for car washes, delivery companies etc. Why should I pipe down? I have countered your argument with a lived experience. It doesn't fit your narrative so you tell me to pipe down. Very mature. I agree, I take that back, I apologise for that. You ignored the rest of the post though" As far as I'm aware, there is no obligation to disclose which way a person will vote. I accept your apology. | |||
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"Try hanging out near one of these new hotels, see how self righteous you feel then. Much nicer people than Reform voters of course. So yeah. Go do it and post results. If you even have a phone to post from afterwards. I have absolutely zero interest in putting myself that close to a group of Reform voters, especially if as you suggest, they're going to rob my phone. Trying to be clever because you know those scum in hotels would rob you and leave you for dead." Sorry if I wasn't clear. I'm NOT racist, so I'm not afraid of foreigners and/or brown people. " You can't let go of the fact reform are going to stomp your hippie party the next election, I assume you'll be voting for Corbyn's new party too." Not all non-racists will be voting for Corbyn's new party. We're spread across the political spectrum. However you could be right, if we learned anything from Brexit, the electorate are soft and mailable, show them some pictures of brown skinned people and they'll vote against their own interests faster than you can say "Immigrants". | |||
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"Try hanging out near one of these new hotels, see how self righteous you feel then. Much nicer people than Reform voters of course. So yeah. Go do it and post results. If you even have a phone to post from afterwards. I have absolutely zero interest in putting myself that close to a group of Reform voters, especially if as you suggest, they're going to rob my phone. Trying to be clever because you know those scum in hotels would rob you and leave you for dead. You can't let go of the fact reform are going to stomp your hippie party the next election, I assume you'll be voting for Corbyn's new party too. I have been in the presence of asylum seekers many times, and I didn't have my possessions taken or left for dead. " However we've seen what happens when large groups of anti-immigrant boneheads get together. The race hate riots of last year for example. | |||
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"The first, third and fourth pledges are essentially contradictory NHS waiting lists exist because there arnt enough resources, especially consultants etc. Raising the personal allowance hits tax revenue And immigration? They say they want to control it. So what should the numbers be? And who? We have an aging population - your average EDs workload will be elderly people, who have often fallen over. Thats what takes up much of the resources. And because we have to import medical staff, in competition withbthe rest of the 1st world, that means immigration. And money Basically, its an impossible wish list, which starts to fall apart when you ask hard questions" Of course it’s impossible, but the hard of thinking won’t worry about that & still vote Reform. God knows where they will go when it all starts failing. Maybe just like Brexit, Farage can claim ‘it wasn’t implemented correctly’ Feck knows who or what he will blame when it’s 100% under his control. | |||
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"Try hanging out near one of these new hotels, see how self righteous you feel then. Much nicer people than Reform voters of course. So yeah. Go do it and post results. If you even have a phone to post from afterwards. I have absolutely zero interest in putting myself that close to a group of Reform voters, especially if as you suggest, they're going to rob my phone. Trying to be clever because you know those scum in hotels would rob you and leave you for dead. You can't let go of the fact reform are going to stomp your hippie party the next election, I assume you'll be voting for Corbyn's new party too. I have been in the presence of asylum seekers many times, and I didn't have my possessions taken or left for dead. However we've seen what happens when large groups of anti-immigrant boneheads get together. The race hate riots of last year for example. " The farage riots | |||
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" Trying to be clever because you know those scum in hotels would rob you and leave you for dead. You can't let go of the fact reform are going to stomp your hippie party the next election, I assume you'll be voting for Corbyn's new party too." What a bizarre comment | |||
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"The first, third and fourth pledges are essentially contradictory NHS waiting lists exist because there arnt enough resources, especially consultants etc. Raising the personal allowance hits tax revenue And immigration? They say they want to control it. So what should the numbers be? And who? We have an aging population - your average EDs workload will be elderly people, who have often fallen over. Thats what takes up much of the resources. And because we have to import medical staff, in competition withbthe rest of the 1st world, that means immigration. And money Basically, its an impossible wish list, which starts to fall apart when you ask hard questions Of course it’s impossible, but the hard of thinking won’t worry about that & still vote Reform. God knows where they will go when it all starts failing. Maybe just like Brexit, Farage can claim ‘it wasn’t implemented correctly’ Feck knows who or what he will blame when it’s 100% under his control." Brexiters are more like those who argue Communism has just never been done correctly | |||
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"Reading today that Reform UK’s local election wins have led to teenagers being put in charge of vital public services, including a 19 year old who is overseeing children and family services while at university." Wait until the teenager realises they can work from the beach if they ditch the university nonsense.  | |||
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"Reading today that Reform UK’s local election wins have led to teenagers being put in charge of vital public services, including a 19 year old who is overseeing children and family services while at university." We have senile 70 odd year olds in charge of countries, what's the difference? | |||
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"Reading today that Reform UK’s local election wins have led to teenagers being put in charge of vital public services, including a 19 year old who is overseeing children and family services while at university." Well, if you are good enough, you’re old enough as they say. The question is : are they? | |||
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"20% of them are criminals and now the wife beater has had to resign the whip for ...... business activities during covid. What is it about Farage and attracting wrong-uns " …even the handful of MPs they have got can’t toe the line. This after Lowe gets sidelined for threatening Yusuf, Yusuf who then quit as chairman because Pochin wanted to ban the burqa, before rejoining a couple of days later as head of Reform Doge. If this lot ever gain power they will make Trump & MAGA look professional. | |||
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"Reading today that Reform UK’s local election wins have led to teenagers being put in charge of vital public services, including a 19 year old who is overseeing children and family services while at university." A Reform party member being in charge is the concerning thing here, that's way worse than them being 19. | |||
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"What will happen to the economy of we deport 20% of our population? Disproportionate working??" Which 20%, Reform voters? | |||
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"What will happen to the economy of we deport 20% of our population? Disproportionate working?? Which 20%, Reform voters?" Can't get hold on to jobs mate, useless | |||
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"A sub league part of the uniparty - another illusion of choice and democracy " There is something to this. The system of parliamentary democracy works in favour of those who donate the most to the election campaigns Having said that, voting for the party that stokes the most hate and the most division, isn't a good thing. | |||
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"As an example "Stop the Boats with our 4 Point Plan Leave the European Convention on Human Rights. Zero illegal immigrants to be resettled in the UK. New Department of Immigration. Pick up illegal migrants out of boats and take them back to France." Does anyone think the EU would just cease all trade and relations with the UK immediately " Does anyone really care?  | |||
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"As an example "Stop the Boats with our 4 Point Plan Leave the European Convention on Human Rights. Zero illegal immigrants to be resettled in the UK. New Department of Immigration. Pick up illegal migrants out of boats and take them back to France." Does anyone think the EU would just cease all trade and relations with the UK immediately Does anyone really care? "It would appear so | |||
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"I visited the Imperial War Museum this week and it was scary to see how similar the tactics the national socialist party were using to gain power in the 1930’s are to what Reform use nowadays. Please don’t think it’s just about me calling reform voters nazis because that’s not the point. The point is they thrive on the othering of non English persons and their declaration that Reform’s simple answers to complex problems are the only rational choice! It’s a playbook that’s always worked in the past and it’s only a thin veneer of civilisation that’s holding back chancers like Farage! I don’t pretend to have any answers to the small boats problem but I do see which way the wind is blowing and I hate it!" Reform, Labour, Conservatives, and Lib Dems all acknowledge we have a serious issue with small boat crossings and uncontrolled arrivals seeking asylum. What differs is the perception of that reality. On one side, people insist everyone crossing is fleeing war and persecution. On the other, it’s claimed they are all young men of fighting age. Neither view is accurate The reason Reform are making headway amongst the voting public is simply a lack of faith in the others to speak the truth, and actually do something meaningful about the problem. Our big 2 lack direction and the public have lost faith in their abilities to deliver. If you want Reform to be banished to the shadows, the big 2 need to step up and deliver, that might be telling the country some hard truths and stop trying to sell solutions that the average joe can see is nonsense from the get go. Until that happens, Reform will continue to plug the gap, in my opinion. | |||
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"I visited the Imperial War Museum this week and it was scary to see how similar the tactics the national socialist party were using to gain power in the 1930’s are to what Reform use nowadays. Please don’t think it’s just about me calling reform voters nazis because that’s not the point. The point is they thrive on the othering of non English persons and their declaration that Reform’s simple answers to complex problems are the only rational choice! It’s a playbook that’s always worked in the past and it’s only a thin veneer of civilisation that’s holding back chancers like Farage! I don’t pretend to have any answers to the small boats problem but I do see which way the wind is blowing and I hate it! Reform, Labour, Conservatives, and Lib Dems all acknowledge we have a serious issue with small boat crossings and uncontrolled arrivals seeking asylum. What differs is the perception of that reality. On one side, people insist everyone crossing is fleeing war and persecution. On the other, it’s claimed they are all young men of fighting age. Neither view is accurate The reason Reform are making headway amongst the voting public is simply a lack of faith in the others to speak the truth, and actually do something meaningful about the problem. Our big 2 lack direction and the public have lost faith in their abilities to deliver. If you want Reform to be banished to the shadows, the big 2 need to step up and deliver, that might be telling the country some hard truths and stop trying to sell solutions that the average joe can see is nonsense from the get go. Until that happens, Reform will continue to plug the gap, in my opinion." No one believes they all have a claim!! We have an asylum process to deem who does and who doesn't!! People are angry because they are made to believe they're lot isn't improving because of the less fortunate!! That isn't true, the truth is people lot haven't got better due to the lack of trickle down, to the extent a labour government now wants to take money from disabled people instead of the asset rich | |||
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"I visited the Imperial War Museum this week and it was scary to see how similar the tactics the national socialist party were using to gain power in the 1930’s are to what Reform use nowadays. Please don’t think it’s just about me calling reform voters nazis because that’s not the point. The point is they thrive on the othering of non English persons and their declaration that Reform’s simple answers to complex problems are the only rational choice! It’s a playbook that’s always worked in the past and it’s only a thin veneer of civilisation that’s holding back chancers like Farage! I don’t pretend to have any answers to the small boats problem but I do see which way the wind is blowing and I hate it! Reform, Labour, Conservatives, and Lib Dems all acknowledge we have a serious issue with small boat crossings and uncontrolled arrivals seeking asylum. What differs is the perception of that reality. On one side, people insist everyone crossing is fleeing war and persecution. On the other, it’s claimed they are all young men of fighting age. Neither view is accurate The reason Reform are making headway amongst the voting public is simply a lack of faith in the others to speak the truth, and actually do something meaningful about the problem. Our big 2 lack direction and the public have lost faith in their abilities to deliver. If you want Reform to be banished to the shadows, the big 2 need to step up and deliver, that might be telling the country some hard truths and stop trying to sell solutions that the average joe can see is nonsense from the get go. Until that happens, Reform will continue to plug the gap, in my opinion. No one believes they all have a claim!! We have an asylum process to deem who does and who doesn't!! People are angry because they are made to believe they're lot isn't improving because of the less fortunate!! That isn't true, the truth is people lot haven't got better due to the lack of trickle down, to the extent a labour government now wants to take money from disabled people instead of the asset rich " This is a wider political response rather than addressing the core issue directly. That is exactly what gives Reform its momentum, people feel their concerns are simply dismissed, and it is a hundred and one other things they are told that they should be concerned about. The result is voters go looking for someone who cuts to the core. | |||
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"I visited the Imperial War Museum this week and it was scary to see how similar the tactics the national socialist party were using to gain power in the 1930’s are to what Reform use nowadays. Please don’t think it’s just about me calling reform voters nazis because that’s not the point. The point is they thrive on the othering of non English persons and their declaration that Reform’s simple answers to complex problems are the only rational choice! It’s a playbook that’s always worked in the past and it’s only a thin veneer of civilisation that’s holding back chancers like Farage! I don’t pretend to have any answers to the small boats problem but I do see which way the wind is blowing and I hate it! Reform, Labour, Conservatives, and Lib Dems all acknowledge we have a serious issue with small boat crossings and uncontrolled arrivals seeking asylum. What differs is the perception of that reality. On one side, people insist everyone crossing is fleeing war and persecution. On the other, it’s claimed they are all young men of fighting age. Neither view is accurate The reason Reform are making headway amongst the voting public is simply a lack of faith in the others to speak the truth, and actually do something meaningful about the problem. Our big 2 lack direction and the public have lost faith in their abilities to deliver. If you want Reform to be banished to the shadows, the big 2 need to step up and deliver, that might be telling the country some hard truths and stop trying to sell solutions that the average joe can see is nonsense from the get go. Until that happens, Reform will continue to plug the gap, in my opinion. No one believes they all have a claim!! We have an asylum process to deem who does and who doesn't!! People are angry because they are made to believe they're lot isn't improving because of the less fortunate!! That isn't true, the truth is people lot haven't got better due to the lack of trickle down, to the extent a labour government now wants to take money from disabled people instead of the asset rich This is a wider political response rather than addressing the core issue directly. That is exactly what gives Reform its momentum, people feel their concerns are simply dismissed, and it is a hundred and one other things they are told that they should be concerned about. The result is voters go looking for someone who cuts to the core." Simplistic answers for a complexed world you mean? Seems like it's education that's failing | |||
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"I visited the Imperial War Museum this week and it was scary to see how similar the tactics the national socialist party were using to gain power in the 1930’s are to what Reform use nowadays. Please don’t think it’s just about me calling reform voters nazis because that’s not the point. The point is they thrive on the othering of non English persons and their declaration that Reform’s simple answers to complex problems are the only rational choice! It’s a playbook that’s always worked in the past and it’s only a thin veneer of civilisation that’s holding back chancers like Farage! I don’t pretend to have any answers to the small boats problem but I do see which way the wind is blowing and I hate it! Reform, Labour, Conservatives, and Lib Dems all acknowledge we have a serious issue with small boat crossings and uncontrolled arrivals seeking asylum. What differs is the perception of that reality. On one side, people insist everyone crossing is fleeing war and persecution. On the other, it’s claimed they are all young men of fighting age. Neither view is accurate The reason Reform are making headway amongst the voting public is simply a lack of faith in the others to speak the truth, and actually do something meaningful about the problem. Our big 2 lack direction and the public have lost faith in their abilities to deliver. If you want Reform to be banished to the shadows, the big 2 need to step up and deliver, that might be telling the country some hard truths and stop trying to sell solutions that the average joe can see is nonsense from the get go. Until that happens, Reform will continue to plug the gap, in my opinion. No one believes they all have a claim!! We have an asylum process to deem who does and who doesn't!! People are angry because they are made to believe they're lot isn't improving because of the less fortunate!! That isn't true, the truth is people lot haven't got better due to the lack of trickle down, to the extent a labour government now wants to take money from disabled people instead of the asset rich This is a wider political response rather than addressing the core issue directly. That is exactly what gives Reform its momentum, people feel their concerns are simply dismissed, and it is a hundred and one other things they are told that they should be concerned about. The result is voters go looking for someone who cuts to the core. Simplistic answers for a complexed world you mean? Seems like it's education that's failing " No I don't mean that, and not sure how you have arrived at that conclusion.... The inability to address peoples concerns head on is the issue, and the platform Reform are running on. Serious debate is lacking and sticking to a side blindly just because, has been the undoing of this country for a good few years now. | |||
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"I visited the Imperial War Museum this week and it was scary to see how similar the tactics the national socialist party were using to gain power in the 1930’s are to what Reform use nowadays. Please don’t think it’s just about me calling reform voters nazis because that’s not the point. The point is they thrive on the othering of non English persons and their declaration that Reform’s simple answers to complex problems are the only rational choice! It’s a playbook that’s always worked in the past and it’s only a thin veneer of civilisation that’s holding back chancers like Farage! I don’t pretend to have any answers to the small boats problem but I do see which way the wind is blowing and I hate it! Reform, Labour, Conservatives, and Lib Dems all acknowledge we have a serious issue with small boat crossings and uncontrolled arrivals seeking asylum. What differs is the perception of that reality. On one side, people insist everyone crossing is fleeing war and persecution. On the other, it’s claimed they are all young men of fighting age. Neither view is accurate The reason Reform are making headway amongst the voting public is simply a lack of faith in the others to speak the truth, and actually do something meaningful about the problem. Our big 2 lack direction and the public have lost faith in their abilities to deliver. If you want Reform to be banished to the shadows, the big 2 need to step up and deliver, that might be telling the country some hard truths and stop trying to sell solutions that the average joe can see is nonsense from the get go. Until that happens, Reform will continue to plug the gap, in my opinion. No one believes they all have a claim!! We have an asylum process to deem who does and who doesn't!! People are angry because they are made to believe they're lot isn't improving because of the less fortunate!! That isn't true, the truth is people lot haven't got better due to the lack of trickle down, to the extent a labour government now wants to take money from disabled people instead of the asset rich This is a wider political response rather than addressing the core issue directly. That is exactly what gives Reform its momentum, people feel their concerns are simply dismissed, and it is a hundred and one other things they are told that they should be concerned about. The result is voters go looking for someone who cuts to the core. Simplistic answers for a complexed world you mean? Seems like it's education that's failing No I don't mean that, and not sure how you have arrived at that conclusion.... The inability to address peoples concerns head on is the issue, and the platform Reform are running on. Serious debate is lacking and sticking to a side blindly just because, has been the undoing of this country for a good few years now. " But in a complexed world, tackling issues head on is a simple answer. The world, our country have laws British and global. We have to stand by. What do you think will happen to our credibility and inward investment if we went for a reform government willing to ride over roughshod over international and national laws? A government willing to break the law is not seen as trusted, so then what about your precious wealthy, where will they go then? | |||
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"I visited the Imperial War Museum this week and it was scary to see how similar the tactics the national socialist party were using to gain power in the 1930’s are to what Reform use nowadays. Please don’t think it’s just about me calling reform voters nazis because that’s not the point. The point is they thrive on the othering of non English persons and their declaration that Reform’s simple answers to complex problems are the only rational choice! It’s a playbook that’s always worked in the past and it’s only a thin veneer of civilisation that’s holding back chancers like Farage! I don’t pretend to have any answers to the small boats problem but I do see which way the wind is blowing and I hate it! Reform, Labour, Conservatives, and Lib Dems all acknowledge we have a serious issue with small boat crossings and uncontrolled arrivals seeking asylum. What differs is the perception of that reality. On one side, people insist everyone crossing is fleeing war and persecution. On the other, it’s claimed they are all young men of fighting age. Neither view is accurate The reason Reform are making headway amongst the voting public is simply a lack of faith in the others to speak the truth, and actually do something meaningful about the problem. Our big 2 lack direction and the public have lost faith in their abilities to deliver. If you want Reform to be banished to the shadows, the big 2 need to step up and deliver, that might be telling the country some hard truths and stop trying to sell solutions that the average joe can see is nonsense from the get go. Until that happens, Reform will continue to plug the gap, in my opinion. No one believes they all have a claim!! We have an asylum process to deem who does and who doesn't!! People are angry because they are made to believe they're lot isn't improving because of the less fortunate!! That isn't true, the truth is people lot haven't got better due to the lack of trickle down, to the extent a labour government now wants to take money from disabled people instead of the asset rich This is a wider political response rather than addressing the core issue directly. That is exactly what gives Reform its momentum, people feel their concerns are simply dismissed, and it is a hundred and one other things they are told that they should be concerned about. The result is voters go looking for someone who cuts to the core. Simplistic answers for a complexed world you mean? Seems like it's education that's failing No I don't mean that, and not sure how you have arrived at that conclusion.... The inability to address peoples concerns head on is the issue, and the platform Reform are running on. Serious debate is lacking and sticking to a side blindly just because, has been the undoing of this country for a good few years now. But in a complexed world, tackling issues head on is a simple answer. The world, our country have laws British and global. We have to stand by. What do you think will happen to our credibility and inward investment if we went for a reform government willing to ride over roughshod over international and national laws? A government willing to break the law is not seen as trusted, so then what about your precious wealthy, where will they go then?" Unless Labour and Conservatives get their act together Reform will continue to gain momentum. It isn't Reforms job to say and do things people don't want to hear... | |||
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"I visited the Imperial War Museum this week and it was scary to see how similar the tactics the national socialist party were using to gain power in the 1930’s are to what Reform use nowadays. Please don’t think it’s just about me calling reform voters nazis because that’s not the point. The point is they thrive on the othering of non English persons and their declaration that Reform’s simple answers to complex problems are the only rational choice! It’s a playbook that’s always worked in the past and it’s only a thin veneer of civilisation that’s holding back chancers like Farage! I don’t pretend to have any answers to the small boats problem but I do see which way the wind is blowing and I hate it! Reform, Labour, Conservatives, and Lib Dems all acknowledge we have a serious issue with small boat crossings and uncontrolled arrivals seeking asylum. What differs is the perception of that reality. On one side, people insist everyone crossing is fleeing war and persecution. On the other, it’s claimed they are all young men of fighting age. Neither view is accurate The reason Reform are making headway amongst the voting public is simply a lack of faith in the others to speak the truth, and actually do something meaningful about the problem. Our big 2 lack direction and the public have lost faith in their abilities to deliver. If you want Reform to be banished to the shadows, the big 2 need to step up and deliver, that might be telling the country some hard truths and stop trying to sell solutions that the average joe can see is nonsense from the get go. Until that happens, Reform will continue to plug the gap, in my opinion. No one believes they all have a claim!! We have an asylum process to deem who does and who doesn't!! People are angry because they are made to believe they're lot isn't improving because of the less fortunate!! That isn't true, the truth is people lot haven't got better due to the lack of trickle down, to the extent a labour government now wants to take money from disabled people instead of the asset rich This is a wider political response rather than addressing the core issue directly. That is exactly what gives Reform its momentum, people feel their concerns are simply dismissed, and it is a hundred and one other things they are told that they should be concerned about. The result is voters go looking for someone who cuts to the core. Simplistic answers for a complexed world you mean? Seems like it's education that's failing No I don't mean that, and not sure how you have arrived at that conclusion.... The inability to address peoples concerns head on is the issue, and the platform Reform are running on. Serious debate is lacking and sticking to a side blindly just because, has been the undoing of this country for a good few years now. But in a complexed world, tackling issues head on is a simple answer. The world, our country have laws British and global. We have to stand by. What do you think will happen to our credibility and inward investment if we went for a reform government willing to ride over roughshod over international and national laws? A government willing to break the law is not seen as trusted, so then what about your precious wealthy, where will they go then? Unless Labour and Conservatives get their act together Reform will continue to gain momentum. It isn't Reforms job to say and do things people don't want to hear..." I see, so lying is the future??? | |||
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"Appealing to the "poorly educated" with simplistic answers is the future. Your not credible! People need to believe in a better future, not the punching down of others. The future should be fairer, people should be payed a decent wage for jobs. Not sibsidised by the government, people should afford their weekly shop, a home and a holiday. Non of that is caused by asylum seekers!! It's caused by the greedy not paying their people and buying all the assets " I'm not convinced you understand peoples genuine concerns, and overwrite your political bias into the issue which clouds thinking. When people who are demonstrating or campaigning against the arrivals of thousands of people in small boats on a weekly basis, they are not looking at wealth and distribution of wealth. They are worried about their facilities, communities, towns and society in general, you and others may think they are uneducated, as you put it, but that response tells me you don't understand other views or give time to understand other views. You don't need to agree with other views but by understanding the rationale it allows for 2 way conversation and exchanging of ideas. | |||
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"Appealing to the "poorly educated" with simplistic answers is the future. Your not credible! People need to believe in a better future, not the punching down of others. The future should be fairer, people should be payed a decent wage for jobs. Not sibsidised by the government, people should afford their weekly shop, a home and a holiday. Non of that is caused by asylum seekers!! It's caused by the greedy not paying their people and buying all the assets I'm not convinced you understand peoples genuine concerns, and overwrite your political bias into the issue which clouds thinking. When people who are demonstrating or campaigning against the arrivals of thousands of people in small boats on a weekly basis, they are not looking at wealth and distribution of wealth. They are worried about their facilities, communities, towns and society in general, you and others may think they are uneducated, as you put it, but that response tells me you don't understand other views or give time to understand other views. You don't need to agree with other views but by understanding the rationale it allows for 2 way conversation and exchanging of ideas." I understand people feel hard done by, but you and your lot encouraging them to punch brown people. That o don't agree with. The answer isn't less brown people it's the rich giving more and not being so selfish | |||
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"Appealing to the "poorly educated" with simplistic answers is the future. Your not credible! People need to believe in a better future, not the punching down of others. The future should be fairer, people should be payed a decent wage for jobs. Not sibsidised by the government, people should afford their weekly shop, a home and a holiday. Non of that is caused by asylum seekers!! It's caused by the greedy not paying their people and buying all the assets I'm not convinced you understand peoples genuine concerns, and overwrite your political bias into the issue which clouds thinking. When people who are demonstrating or campaigning against the arrivals of thousands of people in small boats on a weekly basis, they are not looking at wealth and distribution of wealth. They are worried about their facilities, communities, towns and society in general, you and others may think they are uneducated, as you put it, but that response tells me you don't understand other views or give time to understand other views. You don't need to agree with other views but by understanding the rationale it allows for 2 way conversation and exchanging of ideas. I understand people feel hard done by, but you and your lot encouraging them to punch brown people. That o don't agree with. The answer isn't less brown people it's the rich giving more and not being so selfish " A discussion where I highlight issues is not the same as me supporting the ideas. You still can't recognise that people can have different priorities and ways of thinking to you, so I will leave it here with you... | |||
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"Appealing to the "poorly educated" with simplistic answers is the future. Your not credible! People need to believe in a better future, not the punching down of others. The future should be fairer, people should be payed a decent wage for jobs. Not sibsidised by the government, people should afford their weekly shop, a home and a holiday. Non of that is caused by asylum seekers!! It's caused by the greedy not paying their people and buying all the assets I'm not convinced you understand peoples genuine concerns, and overwrite your political bias into the issue which clouds thinking. When people who are demonstrating or campaigning against the arrivals of thousands of people in small boats on a weekly basis, they are not looking at wealth and distribution of wealth. They are worried about their facilities, communities, towns and society in general, you and others may think they are uneducated, as you put it, but that response tells me you don't understand other views or give time to understand other views. You don't need to agree with other views but by understanding the rationale it allows for 2 way conversation and exchanging of ideas. I understand people feel hard done by, but you and your lot encouraging them to punch brown people. That o don't agree with. The answer isn't less brown people it's the rich giving more and not being so selfish A discussion where I highlight issues is not the same as me supporting the ideas. You still can't recognise that people can have different priorities and ways of thinking to you, so I will leave it here with you... " You continuously say this when you loose an argument against me | |||
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"Appealing to the "poorly educated" with simplistic answers is the future. Your not credible! People need to believe in a better future, not the punching down of others. The future should be fairer, people should be payed a decent wage for jobs. Not sibsidised by the government, people should afford their weekly shop, a home and a holiday. Non of that is caused by asylum seekers!! It's caused by the greedy not paying their people and buying all the assets I'm not convinced you understand peoples genuine concerns, and overwrite your political bias into the issue which clouds thinking. When people who are demonstrating or campaigning against the arrivals of thousands of people in small boats on a weekly basis, they are not looking at wealth and distribution of wealth. They are worried about their facilities, communities, towns and society in general, you and others may think they are uneducated, as you put it, but that response tells me you don't understand other views or give time to understand other views. You don't need to agree with other views but by understanding the rationale it allows for 2 way conversation and exchanging of ideas. I understand people feel hard done by, but you and your lot encouraging them to punch brown people. That o don't agree with. The answer isn't less brown people it's the rich giving more and not being so selfish A discussion where I highlight issues is not the same as me supporting the ideas. You still can't recognise that people can have different priorities and ways of thinking to you, so I will leave it here with you... You continuously say this when you loose an argument against me " I haven't lost an argument with you! I was merely discussing the other side of the coin to a problem. Maybe that is why I end interactions with you early, as I'm not here to win or lose, but to discuss... | |||
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"Appealing to the "poorly educated" with simplistic answers is the future. Your not credible! People need to believe in a better future, not the punching down of others. The future should be fairer, people should be payed a decent wage for jobs. Not sibsidised by the government, people should afford their weekly shop, a home and a holiday. Non of that is caused by asylum seekers!! It's caused by the greedy not paying their people and buying all the assets I'm not convinced you understand peoples genuine concerns, and overwrite your political bias into the issue which clouds thinking. When people who are demonstrating or campaigning against the arrivals of thousands of people in small boats on a weekly basis, they are not looking at wealth and distribution of wealth. They are worried about their facilities, communities, towns and society in general, you and others may think they are uneducated, as you put it, but that response tells me you don't understand other views or give time to understand other views. You don't need to agree with other views but by understanding the rationale it allows for 2 way conversation and exchanging of ideas. I understand people feel hard done by, but you and your lot encouraging them to punch brown people. That o don't agree with. The answer isn't less brown people it's the rich giving more and not being so selfish A discussion where I highlight issues is not the same as me supporting the ideas. You still can't recognise that people can have different priorities and ways of thinking to you, so I will leave it here with you... You continuously say this when you loose an argument against me I haven't lost an argument with you! I was merely discussing the other side of the coin to a problem. Maybe that is why I end interactions with you early, as I'm not here to win or lose, but to discuss..." Here you are again, not responding to a point only distracting from the point if you want rich people to work harder you regulate them less of you want the poor to work harder you regulate them more | |||
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"Appealing to the "poorly educated" with simplistic answers is the future. Your not credible! People need to believe in a better future, not the punching down of others. The future should be fairer, people should be payed a decent wage for jobs. Not sibsidised by the government, people should afford their weekly shop, a home and a holiday. Non of that is caused by asylum seekers!! It's caused by the greedy not paying their people and buying all the assets I'm not convinced you understand peoples genuine concerns, and overwrite your political bias into the issue which clouds thinking. When people who are demonstrating or campaigning against the arrivals of thousands of people in small boats on a weekly basis, they are not looking at wealth and distribution of wealth. They are worried about their facilities, communities, towns and society in general, you and others may think they are uneducated, as you put it, but that response tells me you don't understand other views or give time to understand other views. You don't need to agree with other views but by understanding the rationale it allows for 2 way conversation and exchanging of ideas." You seem to be deliberately confusing "peoples genuine concerns", with being told to blame immigrants for all the problems with "their facilities, communities, towns and society in general". This is a standard tactic of the much further over to the right media and politicians. The process is simple, decades of anti-immigrant propaganda forced down their throats daily, then suddenly it just becomes a "genuine concern". Meanwhile completely distracting people from the actual reasons there are issues in "their facilities, communities, towns and society in general". | |||
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"Appealing to the "poorly educated" with simplistic answers is the future. Your not credible! People need to believe in a better future, not the punching down of others. The future should be fairer, people should be payed a decent wage for jobs. Not sibsidised by the government, people should afford their weekly shop, a home and a holiday. Non of that is caused by asylum seekers!! It's caused by the greedy not paying their people and buying all the assets I'm not convinced you understand peoples genuine concerns, and overwrite your political bias into the issue which clouds thinking. When people who are demonstrating or campaigning against the arrivals of thousands of people in small boats on a weekly basis, they are not looking at wealth and distribution of wealth. They are worried about their facilities, communities, towns and society in general, you and others may think they are uneducated, as you put it, but that response tells me you don't understand other views or give time to understand other views. You don't need to agree with other views but by understanding the rationale it allows for 2 way conversation and exchanging of ideas. You seem to be deliberately confusing "peoples genuine concerns", with being told to blame immigrants for all the problems with "their facilities, communities, towns and society in general". This is a standard tactic of the much further over to the right media and politicians. The process is simple, decades of anti-immigrant propaganda forced down their throats daily, then suddenly it just becomes a "genuine concern". Meanwhile completely distracting people from the actual reasons there are issues in "their facilities, communities, towns and society in general"." I'm doing nothing like that at all. People have genuine concerns about the number people entering the country via small boat. Is this news to you? | |||
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"Appealing to the "poorly educated" with simplistic answers is the future. Your not credible! People need to believe in a better future, not the punching down of others. The future should be fairer, people should be payed a decent wage for jobs. Not sibsidised by the government, people should afford their weekly shop, a home and a holiday. Non of that is caused by asylum seekers!! It's caused by the greedy not paying their people and buying all the assets I'm not convinced you understand peoples genuine concerns, and overwrite your political bias into the issue which clouds thinking. When people who are demonstrating or campaigning against the arrivals of thousands of people in small boats on a weekly basis, they are not looking at wealth and distribution of wealth. They are worried about their facilities, communities, towns and society in general, you and others may think they are uneducated, as you put it, but that response tells me you don't understand other views or give time to understand other views. You don't need to agree with other views but by understanding the rationale it allows for 2 way conversation and exchanging of ideas. You seem to be deliberately confusing "peoples genuine concerns", with being told to blame immigrants for all the problems with "their facilities, communities, towns and society in general". This is a standard tactic of the much further over to the right media and politicians. The process is simple, decades of anti-immigrant propaganda forced down their throats daily, then suddenly it just becomes a "genuine concern". Meanwhile completely distracting people from the actual reasons there are issues in "their facilities, communities, towns and society in general". I'm doing nothing like that at all. People have genuine concerns about the number people entering the country via small boat. Is this news to you?" Haven't heard any "genuine concerns" no. | |||
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"Appealing to the "poorly educated" with simplistic answers is the future. Your not credible! People need to believe in a better future, not the punching down of others. The future should be fairer, people should be payed a decent wage for jobs. Not sibsidised by the government, people should afford their weekly shop, a home and a holiday. Non of that is caused by asylum seekers!! It's caused by the greedy not paying their people and buying all the assets I'm not convinced you understand peoples genuine concerns, and overwrite your political bias into the issue which clouds thinking. When people who are demonstrating or campaigning against the arrivals of thousands of people in small boats on a weekly basis, they are not looking at wealth and distribution of wealth. They are worried about their facilities, communities, towns and society in general, you and others may think they are uneducated, as you put it, but that response tells me you don't understand other views or give time to understand other views. You don't need to agree with other views but by understanding the rationale it allows for 2 way conversation and exchanging of ideas. I understand people feel hard done by, but you and your lot encouraging them to punch brown people. That o don't agree with. The answer isn't less brown people it's the rich giving more and not being so selfish " Back to the steal money from people who studied and worked hard to give to those that dossed around with no ambition in life and spend most of what they get on beer and cigarettes. | |||
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"people also have genuine concerns about the true motives of the anti-immigrant lobby, particularly farage and his ultra-violent race rioters ... who incidently are currently smashing up, setting fire to and generally causing widespread damage to a community in Epping." . Your post is ridiculous. You might not agree with Nigel Farages views but he has never at any stage incited violence. Last time I checked 67 % of the population were concerned with uncontrolled and illegal immigration. Most countries in Europe are | |||
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" Your post is ridiculous. You might not agree with Nigel Farages views but he has never at any stage incited violence. Last time I checked 67 % of the population were concerned with uncontrolled and illegal immigration. Most countries in Europe are " hi and thanks for your reply. my post is fact. i have done my own research and found that the silent majority have genuine concerns about a very vocal minority of farages thuggish race rioters causing damage and disruption to communities. hope this helps. | |||
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"people also have genuine concerns about the true motives of the anti-immigrant lobby, particularly farage and his ultra-violent race rioters ... who incidently are currently smashing up, setting fire to and generally causing widespread damage to a community in Epping." A few maybe, but the country at large are fucked of with these free loading migrants lording it up in hotels at their expense | |||
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" Your post is ridiculous. You might not agree with Nigel Farages views but he has never at any stage incited violence. Last time I checked 67 % of the population were concerned with uncontrolled and illegal immigration. Most countries in Europe are hi and thanks for your reply. my post is fact. i have done my own research and found that the silent majority have genuine concerns about a very vocal minority of farages thuggish race rioters causing damage and disruption to communities. hope this helps." . You probably need to do some research. The rioters are nothing to do with Nigel Farage. Of all people his party would have no need to riot. The are ahead in the opinion polls. It looks like democracy is in action. | |||
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" Your post is ridiculous. You might not agree with Nigel Farages views but he has never at any stage incited violence. Last time I checked 67 % of the population were concerned with uncontrolled and illegal immigration. Most countries in Europe are hi and thanks for your reply. my post is fact. i have done my own research and found that the silent majority have genuine concerns about a very vocal minority of farages thuggish race rioters causing damage and disruption to communities. hope this helps.. You probably need to do some research. The rioters are nothing to do with Nigel Farage. Of all people his party would have no need to riot. The are ahead in the opinion polls. It looks like democracy is in action. " If you're a supporter maybe you can give us some ideas of what their policies will cost and how they'll be funded ? I've emailed them a few times and they haven't responded. It would appear their sums just don't add up | |||
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"people also have genuine concerns about the true motives of the anti-immigrant lobby, particularly farage and his ultra-violent race rioters ... who incidently are currently smashing up, setting fire to and generally causing widespread damage to a community in Epping.. Your post is ridiculous. You might not agree with Nigel Farages views but he has never at any stage incited violence. Last time I checked 67 % of the population were concerned with uncontrolled and illegal immigration. Most countries in Europe are " This post nailed what I'm saying. There is no "uncontrolled" immigration, and it's not illegal to claim asylum. Yet people still believe this nonsense, and believe it's "legitimate". | |||
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" Your post is ridiculous. You might not agree with Nigel Farages views but he has never at any stage incited violence. Last time I checked 67 % of the population were concerned with uncontrolled and illegal immigration. Most countries in Europe are hi and thanks for your reply. my post is fact. i have done my own research and found that the silent majority have genuine concerns about a very vocal minority of farages thuggish race rioters causing damage and disruption to communities. hope this helps.. You probably need to do some research. The rioters are nothing to do with Nigel Farage. Of all people his party would have no need to riot. The are ahead in the opinion polls. It looks like democracy is in action. " Pat, have you fully defected from the Tories to the ultra Tories? | |||
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"people also have genuine concerns about the true motives of the anti-immigrant lobby, particularly farage and his ultra-violent race rioters ... who incidently are currently smashing up, setting fire to and generally causing widespread damage to a community in Epping. A few maybe, but the country at large are fucked of with these free loading migrants lording it up in hotels at their expense " Again, 100% what I'm saying. Reform voters believe this kind of horse shit is A. Real, and B. Legitimate. | |||
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" You probably need to do some research. The rioters are nothing to do with Nigel Farage. Of all people his party would have no need to riot. The are ahead in the opinion polls. It looks like democracy is in action. " hi and thanks for the reply ... i have indeed done my own research and the facts show that farage's ultra violent and very vocal minority of race rioters have given cause for the silent majority to have genuine concerns as to their true motives for setting fire to businesses containing staff and children. | |||
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"people also have genuine concerns about the true motives of the anti-immigrant lobby, particularly farage and his ultra-violent race rioters ... who incidently are currently smashing up, setting fire to and generally causing widespread damage to a community in Epping. A few maybe, but the country at large are fucked of with these free loading migrants lording it up in hotels at their expense Again, 100% what I'm saying. Reform voters believe this kind of horse shit is A. Real, and B. Legitimate." The concerns are there and real for people, whether you have the same concerns or not. Both Labour and the Tories have let the country down by not getting on top of this mess, and that has opened the door for Reform and they didn't even need to try. The convention we signed up to doesn't allow us to prosecute someone for seeking asylum, however, that doesn't mean we should not be able to secure the countries borders and this is the main point of contention. We need a deterrent, a strong deterrent and I would advocate for a hard stop and return policy such as Greece has implemented to allow our the stretched services, that deal with thousands of people a week arriving by small boat, a chance to catch up. We would then see the wood for the trees, and get on top of processing in a timely manner, right now the sheer numbers are overwhelming the efforts to process quickly. We need a reset and a some breathing space to take back some control. That in my opinion should satisfy all sides, with an actual plan that can be worked to. | |||
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"people also have genuine concerns about the true motives of the anti-immigrant lobby, particularly farage and his ultra-violent race rioters ... who incidently are currently smashing up, setting fire to and generally causing widespread damage to a community in Epping. A few maybe, but the country at large are fucked of with these free loading migrants lording it up in hotels at their expense Again, 100% what I'm saying. Reform voters believe this kind of horse shit is A. Real, and B. Legitimate. The concerns are there and real for people, whether you have the same concerns or not. Both Labour and the Tories have let the country down by not getting on top of this mess, and that has opened the door for Reform and they didn't even need to try. The convention we signed up to doesn't allow us to prosecute someone for seeking asylum, however, that doesn't mean we should not be able to secure the countries borders and this is the main point of contention. We need a deterrent, a strong deterrent and I would advocate for a hard stop and return policy such as Greece has implemented to allow our the stretched services, that deal with thousands of people a week arriving by small boat, a chance to catch up. We would then see the wood for the trees, and get on top of processing in a timely manner, right now the sheer numbers are overwhelming the efforts to process quickly. We need a reset and a some breathing space to take back some control. That in my opinion should satisfy all sides, with an actual plan that can be worked to. " Your first sentence nails it. "The concerns are there and real for people". But they're blown out of all proportion by the media and used as a tool to get them to vote against their own interests. That's the point. Just look at all the people on here in a panic about immigrants. Every week there's multiple threads about it. | |||
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"people also have genuine concerns about the true motives of the anti-immigrant lobby, particularly farage and his ultra-violent race rioters ... who incidently are currently smashing up, setting fire to and generally causing widespread damage to a community in Epping. A few maybe, but the country at large are fucked of with these free loading migrants lording it up in hotels at their expense Again, 100% what I'm saying. Reform voters believe this kind of horse shit is A. Real, and B. Legitimate. The concerns are there and real for people, whether you have the same concerns or not. Both Labour and the Tories have let the country down by not getting on top of this mess, and that has opened the door for Reform and they didn't even need to try. The convention we signed up to doesn't allow us to prosecute someone for seeking asylum, however, that doesn't mean we should not be able to secure the countries borders and this is the main point of contention. We need a deterrent, a strong deterrent and I would advocate for a hard stop and return policy such as Greece has implemented to allow our the stretched services, that deal with thousands of people a week arriving by small boat, a chance to catch up. We would then see the wood for the trees, and get on top of processing in a timely manner, right now the sheer numbers are overwhelming the efforts to process quickly. We need a reset and a some breathing space to take back some control. That in my opinion should satisfy all sides, with an actual plan that can be worked to. Your first sentence nails it. "The concerns are there and real for people". But they're blown out of all proportion by the media and used as a tool to get them to vote against their own interests. That's the point. Just look at all the people on here in a panic about immigrants. Every week there's multiple threads about it." Can you see that this is also true when they hear people saying that it is legal to seek asylum, they should be allowed to enter when or wherever they want to? It sends the same messages that make them feel that this is out of control and only going to get worse. There is little middle ground and both sides fuel each other, which allows the government to get away with doing nothing. | |||
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"people also have genuine concerns about the true motives of the anti-immigrant lobby, particularly farage and his ultra-violent race rioters ... who incidently are currently smashing up, setting fire to and generally causing widespread damage to a community in Epping. A few maybe, but the country at large are fucked of with these free loading migrants lording it up in hotels at their expense Again, 100% what I'm saying. Reform voters believe this kind of horse shit is A. Real, and B. Legitimate. The concerns are there and real for people, whether you have the same concerns or not. Both Labour and the Tories have let the country down by not getting on top of this mess, and that has opened the door for Reform and they didn't even need to try. The convention we signed up to doesn't allow us to prosecute someone for seeking asylum, however, that doesn't mean we should not be able to secure the countries borders and this is the main point of contention. We need a deterrent, a strong deterrent and I would advocate for a hard stop and return policy such as Greece has implemented to allow our the stretched services, that deal with thousands of people a week arriving by small boat, a chance to catch up. We would then see the wood for the trees, and get on top of processing in a timely manner, right now the sheer numbers are overwhelming the efforts to process quickly. We need a reset and a some breathing space to take back some control. That in my opinion should satisfy all sides, with an actual plan that can be worked to. Your first sentence nails it. "The concerns are there and real for people". But they're blown out of all proportion by the media and used as a tool to get them to vote against their own interests. That's the point. Just look at all the people on here in a panic about immigrants. Every week there's multiple threads about it. Can you see that this is also true when they hear people saying that it is legal to seek asylum, they should be allowed to enter when or wherever they want to? It sends the same messages that make them feel that this is out of control and only going to get worse. There is little middle ground and both sides fuel each other, which allows the government to get away with doing nothing." Yes, exactly. No one is saying "they should be allowed to enter when or wherever they want to". Yet this is what people believe. As for middle ground, what does that look like? Semi-panicking? | |||
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"people also have genuine concerns about the true motives of the anti-immigrant lobby, particularly farage and his ultra-violent race rioters ... who incidently are currently smashing up, setting fire to and generally causing widespread damage to a community in Epping. A few maybe, but the country at large are fucked of with these free loading migrants lording it up in hotels at their expense Again, 100% what I'm saying. Reform voters believe this kind of horse shit is A. Real, and B. Legitimate. The concerns are there and real for people, whether you have the same concerns or not. Both Labour and the Tories have let the country down by not getting on top of this mess, and that has opened the door for Reform and they didn't even need to try. The convention we signed up to doesn't allow us to prosecute someone for seeking asylum, however, that doesn't mean we should not be able to secure the countries borders and this is the main point of contention. We need a deterrent, a strong deterrent and I would advocate for a hard stop and return policy such as Greece has implemented to allow our the stretched services, that deal with thousands of people a week arriving by small boat, a chance to catch up. We would then see the wood for the trees, and get on top of processing in a timely manner, right now the sheer numbers are overwhelming the efforts to process quickly. We need a reset and a some breathing space to take back some control. That in my opinion should satisfy all sides, with an actual plan that can be worked to. " I think your bit about the Tories and labour not getting a grip on this and helping Reform is very true. Both Tories and labour know this is a hot topic and that people have concerns, hence how much political energy they put into it. The same people are fed up with broken promises from politicians and fed up with not being listened to or even told their concerns are not valid/ should not be discussed. | |||
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"people also have genuine concerns about the true motives of the anti-immigrant lobby, particularly farage and his ultra-violent race rioters ... who incidently are currently smashing up, setting fire to and generally causing widespread damage to a community in Epping. A few maybe, but the country at large are fucked of with these free loading migrants lording it up in hotels at their expense Again, 100% what I'm saying. Reform voters believe this kind of horse shit is A. Real, and B. Legitimate. The concerns are there and real for people, whether you have the same concerns or not. Both Labour and the Tories have let the country down by not getting on top of this mess, and that has opened the door for Reform and they didn't even need to try. The convention we signed up to doesn't allow us to prosecute someone for seeking asylum, however, that doesn't mean we should not be able to secure the countries borders and this is the main point of contention. We need a deterrent, a strong deterrent and I would advocate for a hard stop and return policy such as Greece has implemented to allow our the stretched services, that deal with thousands of people a week arriving by small boat, a chance to catch up. We would then see the wood for the trees, and get on top of processing in a timely manner, right now the sheer numbers are overwhelming the efforts to process quickly. We need a reset and a some breathing space to take back some control. That in my opinion should satisfy all sides, with an actual plan that can be worked to. I think your bit about the Tories and labour not getting a grip on this and helping Reform is very true. Both Tories and labour know this is a hot topic and that people have concerns, hence how much political energy they put into it. The same people are fed up with broken promises from politicians and fed up with not being listened to or even told their concerns are not valid/ should not be discussed. " Exactly and anyone raising their concerns is labelled far right, anyone defending the rights of the refugee convention are branded hard left, far left etc. No government direction leaves a void that is quickly filled by extremists on both sides of the void. | |||
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"people also have genuine concerns about the true motives of the anti-immigrant lobby, particularly farage and his ultra-violent race rioters ... who incidently are currently smashing up, setting fire to and generally causing widespread damage to a community in Epping. A few maybe, but the country at large are fucked of with these free loading migrants lording it up in hotels at their expense Again, 100% what I'm saying. Reform voters believe this kind of horse shit is A. Real, and B. Legitimate. The concerns are there and real for people, whether you have the same concerns or not. Both Labour and the Tories have let the country down by not getting on top of this mess, and that has opened the door for Reform and they didn't even need to try. The convention we signed up to doesn't allow us to prosecute someone for seeking asylum, however, that doesn't mean we should not be able to secure the countries borders and this is the main point of contention. We need a deterrent, a strong deterrent and I would advocate for a hard stop and return policy such as Greece has implemented to allow our the stretched services, that deal with thousands of people a week arriving by small boat, a chance to catch up. We would then see the wood for the trees, and get on top of processing in a timely manner, right now the sheer numbers are overwhelming the efforts to process quickly. We need a reset and a some breathing space to take back some control. That in my opinion should satisfy all sides, with an actual plan that can be worked to. I think your bit about the Tories and labour not getting a grip on this and helping Reform is very true. Both Tories and labour know this is a hot topic and that people have concerns, hence how much political energy they put into it. The same people are fed up with broken promises from politicians and fed up with not being listened to or even told their concerns are not valid/ should not be discussed. Exactly and anyone raising their concerns is labelled far right, anyone defending the rights of the refugee convention are branded hard left, far left etc. No government direction leaves a void that is quickly filled by extremists on both sides of the void. " Extremists who participate in race-hate riots and set fire to hotels with asylum seekers. And extremists who think that setting fire to hotels with women and children are in is a bad idea, and extremists who don't watch GBNews and don't blame immigrants for everything. Sounds like a false equivalence to me. | |||
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"people also have genuine concerns about the true motives of the anti-immigrant lobby, particularly farage and his ultra-violent race rioters ... who incidently are currently smashing up, setting fire to and generally causing widespread damage to a community in Epping. A few maybe, but the country at large are fucked of with these free loading migrants lording it up in hotels at their expense Again, 100% what I'm saying. Reform voters believe this kind of horse shit is A. Real, and B. Legitimate. The concerns are there and real for people, whether you have the same concerns or not. Both Labour and the Tories have let the country down by not getting on top of this mess, and that has opened the door for Reform and they didn't even need to try. The convention we signed up to doesn't allow us to prosecute someone for seeking asylum, however, that doesn't mean we should not be able to secure the countries borders and this is the main point of contention. We need a deterrent, a strong deterrent and I would advocate for a hard stop and return policy such as Greece has implemented to allow our the stretched services, that deal with thousands of people a week arriving by small boat, a chance to catch up. We would then see the wood for the trees, and get on top of processing in a timely manner, right now the sheer numbers are overwhelming the efforts to process quickly. We need a reset and a some breathing space to take back some control. That in my opinion should satisfy all sides, with an actual plan that can be worked to. Your first sentence nails it. "The concerns are there and real for people". But they're blown out of all proportion by the media and used as a tool to get them to vote against their own interests. That's the point. Just look at all the people on here in a panic about immigrants. Every week there's multiple threads about it. Can you see that this is also true when they hear people saying that it is legal to seek asylum, they should be allowed to enter when or wherever they want to? It sends the same messages that make them feel that this is out of control and only going to get worse. There is little middle ground and both sides fuel each other, which allows the government to get away with doing nothing. Yes, exactly. No one is saying "they should be allowed to enter when or wherever they want to". Yet this is what people believe. As for middle ground, what does that look like? Semi-panicking?" The middle ground is a very simple place to be, drop the accusations of uneducated racists who are scared of brown people, and listen to their concerns. The same applies to those who see it from the complete opposite view and consider woke liberal leftists to be the gate keepers to social collapse. They should listen to each other and stop being so judgemental. | |||
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"people also have genuine concerns about the true motives of the anti-immigrant lobby, particularly farage and his ultra-violent race rioters ... who incidently are currently smashing up, setting fire to and generally causing widespread damage to a community in Epping. A few maybe, but the country at large are fucked of with these free loading migrants lording it up in hotels at their expense Again, 100% what I'm saying. Reform voters believe this kind of horse shit is A. Real, and B. Legitimate. The concerns are there and real for people, whether you have the same concerns or not. Both Labour and the Tories have let the country down by not getting on top of this mess, and that has opened the door for Reform and they didn't even need to try. The convention we signed up to doesn't allow us to prosecute someone for seeking asylum, however, that doesn't mean we should not be able to secure the countries borders and this is the main point of contention. We need a deterrent, a strong deterrent and I would advocate for a hard stop and return policy such as Greece has implemented to allow our the stretched services, that deal with thousands of people a week arriving by small boat, a chance to catch up. We would then see the wood for the trees, and get on top of processing in a timely manner, right now the sheer numbers are overwhelming the efforts to process quickly. We need a reset and a some breathing space to take back some control. That in my opinion should satisfy all sides, with an actual plan that can be worked to. Your first sentence nails it. "The concerns are there and real for people". But they're blown out of all proportion by the media and used as a tool to get them to vote against their own interests. That's the point. Just look at all the people on here in a panic about immigrants. Every week there's multiple threads about it. Can you see that this is also true when they hear people saying that it is legal to seek asylum, they should be allowed to enter when or wherever they want to? It sends the same messages that make them feel that this is out of control and only going to get worse. There is little middle ground and both sides fuel each other, which allows the government to get away with doing nothing. Yes, exactly. No one is saying "they should be allowed to enter when or wherever they want to". Yet this is what people believe. As for middle ground, what does that look like? Semi-panicking? The middle ground is a very simple place to be, drop the accusations of uneducated racists who are scared of brown people, and listen to their concerns. " Their concerns are mostly nonsense they've seen in the Daily Mail, on social media or GBNews. " The same applies to those who see it from the complete opposite view and consider woke liberal leftists to be the gate keepers to social collapse. They should listen to each other and stop being so judgemental. " As I mentioned, the false equivalence for people who swallow the anti-immigrant propaganda and those that don't, is pretty silly. | |||
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"There is no "uncontrolled" immigration, and it's not illegal to claim asylum." Nobody believes that it's illegal to claim asylum. The government wouldn't be supplying interpreters to help people with their applications if it were illegal. | |||
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"people also have genuine concerns about the true motives of the anti-immigrant lobby, particularly farage and his ultra-violent race rioters ... who incidently are currently smashing up, setting fire to and generally causing widespread damage to a community in Epping. A few maybe, but the country at large are fucked of with these free loading migrants lording it up in hotels at their expense Again, 100% what I'm saying. Reform voters believe this kind of horse shit is A. Real, and B. Legitimate. The concerns are there and real for people, whether you have the same concerns or not. Both Labour and the Tories have let the country down by not getting on top of this mess, and that has opened the door for Reform and they didn't even need to try. The convention we signed up to doesn't allow us to prosecute someone for seeking asylum, however, that doesn't mean we should not be able to secure the countries borders and this is the main point of contention. We need a deterrent, a strong deterrent and I would advocate for a hard stop and return policy such as Greece has implemented to allow our the stretched services, that deal with thousands of people a week arriving by small boat, a chance to catch up. We would then see the wood for the trees, and get on top of processing in a timely manner, right now the sheer numbers are overwhelming the efforts to process quickly. We need a reset and a some breathing space to take back some control. That in my opinion should satisfy all sides, with an actual plan that can be worked to. Your first sentence nails it. "The concerns are there and real for people". But they're blown out of all proportion by the media and used as a tool to get them to vote against their own interests. That's the point. Just look at all the people on here in a panic about immigrants. Every week there's multiple threads about it. Can you see that this is also true when they hear people saying that it is legal to seek asylum, they should be allowed to enter when or wherever they want to? It sends the same messages that make them feel that this is out of control and only going to get worse. There is little middle ground and both sides fuel each other, which allows the government to get away with doing nothing. Yes, exactly. No one is saying "they should be allowed to enter when or wherever they want to". Yet this is what people believe. As for middle ground, what does that look like? Semi-panicking? The middle ground is a very simple place to be, drop the accusations of uneducated racists who are scared of brown people, and listen to their concerns. Their concerns are mostly nonsense they've seen in the Daily Mail, on social media or GBNews. The same applies to those who see it from the complete opposite view and consider woke liberal leftists to be the gate keepers to social collapse. They should listen to each other and stop being so judgemental. As I mentioned, the false equivalence for people who swallow the anti-immigrant propaganda and those that don't, is pretty silly." This is my point proven somewhat, you and many others can't step back from the line you have drawn in the sand. I consider that to be an annoyance, the people of Epping may have different view when both as side of the line converged.. | |||
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"people also have genuine concerns about the true motives of the anti-immigrant lobby, particularly farage and his ultra-violent race rioters ... who incidently are currently smashing up, setting fire to and generally causing widespread damage to a community in Epping. A few maybe, but the country at large are fucked of with these free loading migrants lording it up in hotels at their expense Again, 100% what I'm saying. Reform voters believe this kind of horse shit is A. Real, and B. Legitimate. The concerns are there and real for people, whether you have the same concerns or not. Both Labour and the Tories have let the country down by not getting on top of this mess, and that has opened the door for Reform and they didn't even need to try. The convention we signed up to doesn't allow us to prosecute someone for seeking asylum, however, that doesn't mean we should not be able to secure the countries borders and this is the main point of contention. We need a deterrent, a strong deterrent and I would advocate for a hard stop and return policy such as Greece has implemented to allow our the stretched services, that deal with thousands of people a week arriving by small boat, a chance to catch up. We would then see the wood for the trees, and get on top of processing in a timely manner, right now the sheer numbers are overwhelming the efforts to process quickly. We need a reset and a some breathing space to take back some control. That in my opinion should satisfy all sides, with an actual plan that can be worked to. Your first sentence nails it. "The concerns are there and real for people". But they're blown out of all proportion by the media and used as a tool to get them to vote against their own interests. That's the point. Just look at all the people on here in a panic about immigrants. Every week there's multiple threads about it. Can you see that this is also true when they hear people saying that it is legal to seek asylum, they should be allowed to enter when or wherever they want to? It sends the same messages that make them feel that this is out of control and only going to get worse. There is little middle ground and both sides fuel each other, which allows the government to get away with doing nothing. Yes, exactly. No one is saying "they should be allowed to enter when or wherever they want to". Yet this is what people believe. As for middle ground, what does that look like? Semi-panicking? The middle ground is a very simple place to be, drop the accusations of uneducated racists who are scared of brown people, and listen to their concerns. Their concerns are mostly nonsense they've seen in the Daily Mail, on social media or GBNews. The same applies to those who see it from the complete opposite view and consider woke liberal leftists to be the gate keepers to social collapse. They should listen to each other and stop being so judgemental. As I mentioned, the false equivalence for people who swallow the anti-immigrant propaganda and those that don't, is pretty silly. This is my point proven somewhat, you and many others can't step back from the line you have drawn in the sand." Thank you. My line in the sand is the correct side of the anti-immigrant propaganda. " I consider that to be an annoyance, the people of Epping may have different view when both as side of the line converged.. " Is this in reference to the violent race-hate enthusiasts, and another attempt to draw a false equivalence to the non-violent and non-racist protesters? | |||
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"people also have genuine concerns about the true motives of the anti-immigrant lobby, particularly farage and his ultra-violent race rioters ... who incidently are currently smashing up, setting fire to and generally causing widespread damage to a community in Epping. A few maybe, but the country at large are fucked of with these free loading migrants lording it up in hotels at their expense Again, 100% what I'm saying. Reform voters believe this kind of horse shit is A. Real, and B. Legitimate. The concerns are there and real for people, whether you have the same concerns or not. Both Labour and the Tories have let the country down by not getting on top of this mess, and that has opened the door for Reform and they didn't even need to try. The convention we signed up to doesn't allow us to prosecute someone for seeking asylum, however, that doesn't mean we should not be able to secure the countries borders and this is the main point of contention. We need a deterrent, a strong deterrent and I would advocate for a hard stop and return policy such as Greece has implemented to allow our the stretched services, that deal with thousands of people a week arriving by small boat, a chance to catch up. We would then see the wood for the trees, and get on top of processing in a timely manner, right now the sheer numbers are overwhelming the efforts to process quickly. We need a reset and a some breathing space to take back some control. That in my opinion should satisfy all sides, with an actual plan that can be worked to. Your first sentence nails it. "The concerns are there and real for people". But they're blown out of all proportion by the media and used as a tool to get them to vote against their own interests. That's the point. Just look at all the people on here in a panic about immigrants. Every week there's multiple threads about it. Can you see that this is also true when they hear people saying that it is legal to seek asylum, they should be allowed to enter when or wherever they want to? It sends the same messages that make them feel that this is out of control and only going to get worse. There is little middle ground and both sides fuel each other, which allows the government to get away with doing nothing. Yes, exactly. No one is saying "they should be allowed to enter when or wherever they want to". Yet this is what people believe. As for middle ground, what does that look like? Semi-panicking? The middle ground is a very simple place to be, drop the accusations of uneducated racists who are scared of brown people, and listen to their concerns. Their concerns are mostly nonsense they've seen in the Daily Mail, on social media or GBNews. The same applies to those who see it from the complete opposite view and consider woke liberal leftists to be the gate keepers to social collapse. They should listen to each other and stop being so judgemental. As I mentioned, the false equivalence for people who swallow the anti-immigrant propaganda and those that don't, is pretty silly. This is my point proven somewhat, you and many others can't step back from the line you have drawn in the sand. Thank you. My line in the sand is the correct side of the anti-immigrant propaganda. I consider that to be an annoyance, the people of Epping may have different view when both as side of the line converged.. Is this in reference to the violent race-hate enthusiasts, and another attempt to draw a false equivalence to the non-violent and non-racist protesters?" You have ignored my point of debate with your own bias one too many times. I will leave it here | |||
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"Reform seem very upset about the number of small boats but they are the ones in their various guises UKIP & Brexit who pushed for Brexit ( if you don't know the consequences of what you are going to vote for , THINK before voting)" Brexit had no effect on the number of small boat crossings. Brexit meant a significant reduction in the number of asylum seekers that arrived in the UK by legal means (which was a very small percentage of the total arrivals). | |||
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"Reform seem very upset about the number of small boats but they are the ones in their various guises UKIP & Brexit who pushed for Brexit ( if you don't know the consequences of what you are going to vote for , THINK before voting) Brexit had no effect on the number of small boat crossings. Brexit meant a significant reduction in the number of asylum seekers that arrived in the UK by legal means (which was a very small percentage of the total arrivals)." How many boats arrived before Brexit? Once we left and Johnson and Frosty Frost decided we didn't need to be apart of the Dublin agreement. This in turn provided a business model for the smugglers, because Britain no longer could return people to the first port of entry. So yes I'm afraid this is a direct consequence of Brexit or at least the Brexit Johnson and Frosty agreed on. | |||
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"What a huge waste of everyone's time this has been. Politically naïve and immature children will inevitably lean towards the Utopian fantasy of socialism. Labour will be re-elected by a landslide after having given schoolkids the vote." Naiievety is this comment when polls show the greens and reform are beneficiaries by sex, males go rightwards females leftward | |||
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"What a huge waste of everyone's time this has been. " Agreed, taking Reform pledges seriously is a joke. " Politically naïve and immature " Agree, but in fairness to Reform, that works on a large portion of the electorate. " children will inevitably lean towards the Utopian fantasy of socialism. " Better than the alternatives, younger people have the idealism before they get jaded " Labour will be re-elected by a landslide after having given schoolkids the vote." There was a good debate on this in another thread. Differing opinions on of this policy would help or harm Labours chances. | |||
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"Polls, as we all know, are never wrong. As they say on adverts, past experience is no guarantee etc. Just because children always have voted leftwards... Having said that, kids really are stupid enough to vote Green - although that's left by any other name, as any fule kno." Who's the most popular member of parliament on tick tock? Beating all others combined? | |||
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"people also have genuine concerns about the true motives of the anti-immigrant lobby, particularly farage and his ultra-violent race rioters ... who incidently are currently smashing up, setting fire to and generally causing widespread damage to a community in Epping. A few maybe, but the country at large are fucked of with these free loading migrants lording it up in hotels at their expense Again, 100% what I'm saying. Reform voters believe this kind of horse shit is A. Real, and B. Legitimate. The concerns are there and real for people, whether you have the same concerns or not. Both Labour and the Tories have let the country down by not getting on top of this mess, and that has opened the door for Reform and they didn't even need to try. The convention we signed up to doesn't allow us to prosecute someone for seeking asylum, however, that doesn't mean we should not be able to secure the countries borders and this is the main point of contention. We need a deterrent, a strong deterrent and I would advocate for a hard stop and return policy such as Greece has implemented to allow our the stretched services, that deal with thousands of people a week arriving by small boat, a chance to catch up. We would then see the wood for the trees, and get on top of processing in a timely manner, right now the sheer numbers are overwhelming the efforts to process quickly. We need a reset and a some breathing space to take back some control. That in my opinion should satisfy all sides, with an actual plan that can be worked to. I think your bit about the Tories and labour not getting a grip on this and helping Reform is very true. Both Tories and labour know this is a hot topic and that people have concerns, hence how much political energy they put into it. The same people are fed up with broken promises from politicians and fed up with not being listened to or even told their concerns are not valid/ should not be discussed. Exactly and anyone raising their concerns is labelled far right, anyone defending the rights of the refugee convention are branded hard left, far left etc. No government direction leaves a void that is quickly filled by extremists on both sides of the void. " Yes it's a problem when debate cannot happen in a reasonable way as some will try to shut it down at the outset. How many times do you hear things like ' that's a typical GB news story ' or ' you must be reading the daily mail to much '. It often feels like they don't want it discussed at all, rather hush it up instead. Both sides do this sort of thing and it leaves people frustrated that they have concerns but are not listened to. | |||
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"people also have genuine concerns about the true motives of the anti-immigrant lobby, particularly farage and his ultra-violent race rioters ... who incidently are currently smashing up, setting fire to and generally causing widespread damage to a community in Epping. A few maybe, but the country at large are fucked of with these free loading migrants lording it up in hotels at their expense Again, 100% what I'm saying. Reform voters believe this kind of horse shit is A. Real, and B. Legitimate. The concerns are there and real for people, whether you have the same concerns or not. Both Labour and the Tories have let the country down by not getting on top of this mess, and that has opened the door for Reform and they didn't even need to try. The convention we signed up to doesn't allow us to prosecute someone for seeking asylum, however, that doesn't mean we should not be able to secure the countries borders and this is the main point of contention. We need a deterrent, a strong deterrent and I would advocate for a hard stop and return policy such as Greece has implemented to allow our the stretched services, that deal with thousands of people a week arriving by small boat, a chance to catch up. We would then see the wood for the trees, and get on top of processing in a timely manner, right now the sheer numbers are overwhelming the efforts to process quickly. We need a reset and a some breathing space to take back some control. That in my opinion should satisfy all sides, with an actual plan that can be worked to. I think your bit about the Tories and labour not getting a grip on this and helping Reform is very true. Both Tories and labour know this is a hot topic and that people have concerns, hence how much political energy they put into it. The same people are fed up with broken promises from politicians and fed up with not being listened to or even told their concerns are not valid/ should not be discussed. Exactly and anyone raising their concerns is labelled far right, anyone defending the rights of the refugee convention are branded hard left, far left etc. No government direction leaves a void that is quickly filled by extremists on both sides of the void. Yes it's a problem when debate cannot happen in a reasonable way as some will try to shut it down at the outset. How many times do you hear things like ' that's a typical GB news story ' or ' you must be reading the daily mail to much '. It often feels like they don't want it discussed at all, rather hush it up instead. Both sides do this sort of thing and it leaves people frustrated that they have concerns but are not listened to." What reasonable debate do you feel is being shut down? | |||
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"people also have genuine concerns about the true motives of the anti-immigrant lobby, particularly farage and his ultra-violent race rioters ... who incidently are currently smashing up, setting fire to and generally causing widespread damage to a community in Epping. A few maybe, but the country at large are fucked of with these free loading migrants lording it up in hotels at their expense Again, 100% what I'm saying. Reform voters believe this kind of horse shit is A. Real, and B. Legitimate. The concerns are there and real for people, whether you have the same concerns or not. Both Labour and the Tories have let the country down by not getting on top of this mess, and that has opened the door for Reform and they didn't even need to try. The convention we signed up to doesn't allow us to prosecute someone for seeking asylum, however, that doesn't mean we should not be able to secure the countries borders and this is the main point of contention. We need a deterrent, a strong deterrent and I would advocate for a hard stop and return policy such as Greece has implemented to allow our the stretched services, that deal with thousands of people a week arriving by small boat, a chance to catch up. We would then see the wood for the trees, and get on top of processing in a timely manner, right now the sheer numbers are overwhelming the efforts to process quickly. We need a reset and a some breathing space to take back some control. That in my opinion should satisfy all sides, with an actual plan that can be worked to. I think your bit about the Tories and labour not getting a grip on this and helping Reform is very true. Both Tories and labour know this is a hot topic and that people have concerns, hence how much political energy they put into it. The same people are fed up with broken promises from politicians and fed up with not being listened to or even told their concerns are not valid/ should not be discussed. Exactly and anyone raising their concerns is labelled far right, anyone defending the rights of the refugee convention are branded hard left, far left etc. No government direction leaves a void that is quickly filled by extremists on both sides of the void. Yes it's a problem when debate cannot happen in a reasonable way as some will try to shut it down at the outset. How many times do you hear things like ' that's a typical GB news story ' or ' you must be reading the daily mail to much '. It often feels like they don't want it discussed at all, rather hush it up instead. Both sides do this sort of thing and it leaves people frustrated that they have concerns but are not listened to. What reasonable debate do you feel is being shut down?" For me it's when the early conversation contains accusations of others being far right or far left. Being told you must be a daily mail reader or a daily mirror reader. Told there are to many conversations on this topic. This is my personal view and I feel it aids certain parties as they exploit the void | |||
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"people also have genuine concerns about the true motives of the anti-immigrant lobby, particularly farage and his ultra-violent race rioters ... who incidently are currently smashing up, setting fire to and generally causing widespread damage to a community in Epping. A few maybe, but the country at large are fucked of with these free loading migrants lording it up in hotels at their expense Again, 100% what I'm saying. Reform voters believe this kind of horse shit is A. Real, and B. Legitimate. The concerns are there and real for people, whether you have the same concerns or not. Both Labour and the Tories have let the country down by not getting on top of this mess, and that has opened the door for Reform and they didn't even need to try. The convention we signed up to doesn't allow us to prosecute someone for seeking asylum, however, that doesn't mean we should not be able to secure the countries borders and this is the main point of contention. We need a deterrent, a strong deterrent and I would advocate for a hard stop and return policy such as Greece has implemented to allow our the stretched services, that deal with thousands of people a week arriving by small boat, a chance to catch up. We would then see the wood for the trees, and get on top of processing in a timely manner, right now the sheer numbers are overwhelming the efforts to process quickly. We need a reset and a some breathing space to take back some control. That in my opinion should satisfy all sides, with an actual plan that can be worked to. I think your bit about the Tories and labour not getting a grip on this and helping Reform is very true. Both Tories and labour know this is a hot topic and that people have concerns, hence how much political energy they put into it. The same people are fed up with broken promises from politicians and fed up with not being listened to or even told their concerns are not valid/ should not be discussed. Exactly and anyone raising their concerns is labelled far right, anyone defending the rights of the refugee convention are branded hard left, far left etc. No government direction leaves a void that is quickly filled by extremists on both sides of the void. Yes it's a problem when debate cannot happen in a reasonable way as some will try to shut it down at the outset. How many times do you hear things like ' that's a typical GB news story ' or ' you must be reading the daily mail to much '. It often feels like they don't want it discussed at all, rather hush it up instead. Both sides do this sort of thing and it leaves people frustrated that they have concerns but are not listened to. What reasonable debate do you feel is being shut down? For me it's when the early conversation contains accusations of others being far right or far left. Being told you must be a daily mail reader or a daily mirror reader. Told there are to many conversations on this topic. This is my personal view and I feel it aids certain parties as they exploit the void" Sometimes it's easier to say "that's very Daily Mail" than, "that's very misleading, giving a half truth, is out of context, isn't giving the full picture, and is designed to cause outrage in people who aren't paying proper attention to what's going on". It isn't intended to shut down the conversation. | |||
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"Reform seem very upset about the number of small boats but they are the ones in their various guises UKIP & Brexit who pushed for Brexit ( if you don't know the consequences of what you are going to vote for , THINK before voting)" "Brexit had no effect on the number of small boat crossings. Brexit meant a significant reduction in the number of asylum seekers that arrived in the UK by legal means (which was a very small percentage of the total arrivals)." "How many boats arrived before Brexit?" Fewer. 20 years ago the main route was by stowing away in lorries. When we shut that down, they started to use boats. The trend can be seen well before Brexit. "Once we left and Johnson and Frosty Frost decided we didn't need to be apart of the Dublin agreement." They didn't decide that, the EU told them that it would be taken away. "This in turn provided a business model for the smugglers, because Britain no longer could return people to the first port of entry." That's not how it worked. The Dublin Agreement only applied to those people that had previously applied for asylum in an EU country, and been turned down. If we found one of those, we could send them back to the country they originally applied in. Of course, the main route in was to register in the EU and get an ID card, then just get on the ferry and come over here. Whilst we were in the EU we had no power to stop anyone from crossing the border if they had an EU ID. | |||
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"people also have genuine concerns about the true motives of the anti-immigrant lobby, particularly farage and his ultra-violent race rioters ... who incidently are currently smashing up, setting fire to and generally causing widespread damage to a community in Epping. A few maybe, but the country at large are fucked of with these free loading migrants lording it up in hotels at their expense Again, 100% what I'm saying. Reform voters believe this kind of horse shit is A. Real, and B. Legitimate. The concerns are there and real for people, whether you have the same concerns or not. Both Labour and the Tories have let the country down by not getting on top of this mess, and that has opened the door for Reform and they didn't even need to try. The convention we signed up to doesn't allow us to prosecute someone for seeking asylum, however, that doesn't mean we should not be able to secure the countries borders and this is the main point of contention. We need a deterrent, a strong deterrent and I would advocate for a hard stop and return policy such as Greece has implemented to allow our the stretched services, that deal with thousands of people a week arriving by small boat, a chance to catch up. We would then see the wood for the trees, and get on top of processing in a timely manner, right now the sheer numbers are overwhelming the efforts to process quickly. We need a reset and a some breathing space to take back some control. That in my opinion should satisfy all sides, with an actual plan that can be worked to. I think your bit about the Tories and labour not getting a grip on this and helping Reform is very true. Both Tories and labour know this is a hot topic and that people have concerns, hence how much political energy they put into it. The same people are fed up with broken promises from politicians and fed up with not being listened to or even told their concerns are not valid/ should not be discussed. Exactly and anyone raising their concerns is labelled far right, anyone defending the rights of the refugee convention are branded hard left, far left etc. No government direction leaves a void that is quickly filled by extremists on both sides of the void. Yes it's a problem when debate cannot happen in a reasonable way as some will try to shut it down at the outset. How many times do you hear things like ' that's a typical GB news story ' or ' you must be reading the daily mail to much '. It often feels like they don't want it discussed at all, rather hush it up instead. Both sides do this sort of thing and it leaves people frustrated that they have concerns but are not listened to. What reasonable debate do you feel is being shut down? For me it's when the early conversation contains accusations of others being far right or far left. Being told you must be a daily mail reader or a daily mirror reader. Told there are to many conversations on this topic. This is my personal view and I feel it aids certain parties as they exploit the void Sometimes it's easier to say "that's very Daily Mail" than, "that's very misleading, giving a half truth, is out of context, isn't giving the full picture, and is designed to cause outrage in people who aren't paying proper attention to what's going on". It isn't intended to shut down the conversation. " That sounds like an insult to anyone who reads a particular paper and does not take into account that people who read that paper may read several other sources and may well be paying more attention than you give credit for. To me insults are a way of shutting down debate or deliberately causing them to descend into a slanging match instead of actually talking about what ever the subject may be. I have just started reading the thread on the Epping incident. Only a few posts in before far right, leftists and racists terms were used | |||
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"people also have genuine concerns about the true motives of the anti-immigrant lobby, particularly farage and his ultra-violent race rioters ... who incidently are currently smashing up, setting fire to and generally causing widespread damage to a community in Epping. A few maybe, but the country at large are fucked of with these free loading migrants lording it up in hotels at their expense Again, 100% what I'm saying. Reform voters believe this kind of horse shit is A. Real, and B. Legitimate. The concerns are there and real for people, whether you have the same concerns or not. Both Labour and the Tories have let the country down by not getting on top of this mess, and that has opened the door for Reform and they didn't even need to try. The convention we signed up to doesn't allow us to prosecute someone for seeking asylum, however, that doesn't mean we should not be able to secure the countries borders and this is the main point of contention. We need a deterrent, a strong deterrent and I would advocate for a hard stop and return policy such as Greece has implemented to allow our the stretched services, that deal with thousands of people a week arriving by small boat, a chance to catch up. We would then see the wood for the trees, and get on top of processing in a timely manner, right now the sheer numbers are overwhelming the efforts to process quickly. We need a reset and a some breathing space to take back some control. That in my opinion should satisfy all sides, with an actual plan that can be worked to. I think your bit about the Tories and labour not getting a grip on this and helping Reform is very true. Both Tories and labour know this is a hot topic and that people have concerns, hence how much political energy they put into it. The same people are fed up with broken promises from politicians and fed up with not being listened to or even told their concerns are not valid/ should not be discussed. Exactly and anyone raising their concerns is labelled far right, anyone defending the rights of the refugee convention are branded hard left, far left etc. No government direction leaves a void that is quickly filled by extremists on both sides of the void. Yes it's a problem when debate cannot happen in a reasonable way as some will try to shut it down at the outset. How many times do you hear things like ' that's a typical GB news story ' or ' you must be reading the daily mail to much '. It often feels like they don't want it discussed at all, rather hush it up instead. Both sides do this sort of thing and it leaves people frustrated that they have concerns but are not listened to. What reasonable debate do you feel is being shut down? For me it's when the early conversation contains accusations of others being far right or far left. Being told you must be a daily mail reader or a daily mirror reader. Told there are to many conversations on this topic. This is my personal view and I feel it aids certain parties as they exploit the void Sometimes it's easier to say "that's very Daily Mail" than, "that's very misleading, giving a half truth, is out of context, isn't giving the full picture, and is designed to cause outrage in people who aren't paying proper attention to what's going on". It isn't intended to shut down the conversation. That sounds like an insult to anyone who reads a particular paper and does not take into account that people who read that paper may read several other sources and may well be paying more attention than you give credit for. " Fair enough, but if people feel insulted for reading the Daily Mail..... " To me insults are a way of shutting down debate or deliberately causing them to descend into a slanging match instead of actually talking about what ever the subject may be. I have just started reading the thread on the Epping incident. Only a few posts in before far right, leftists and racists terms were used " Someone else pointed this out, but if the story is about violent racists, it's kinda hard not to use those words. | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
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| |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"people also have genuine concerns about the true motives of the anti-immigrant lobby, particularly farage and his ultra-violent race rioters ... who incidently are currently smashing up, setting fire to and generally causing widespread damage to a community in Epping. A few maybe, but the country at large are fucked of with these free loading migrants lording it up in hotels at their expense Again, 100% what I'm saying. Reform voters believe this kind of horse shit is A. Real, and B. Legitimate. The concerns are there and real for people, whether you have the same concerns or not. Both Labour and the Tories have let the country down by not getting on top of this mess, and that has opened the door for Reform and they didn't even need to try. The convention we signed up to doesn't allow us to prosecute someone for seeking asylum, however, that doesn't mean we should not be able to secure the countries borders and this is the main point of contention. We need a deterrent, a strong deterrent and I would advocate for a hard stop and return policy such as Greece has implemented to allow our the stretched services, that deal with thousands of people a week arriving by small boat, a chance to catch up. We would then see the wood for the trees, and get on top of processing in a timely manner, right now the sheer numbers are overwhelming the efforts to process quickly. We need a reset and a some breathing space to take back some control. That in my opinion should satisfy all sides, with an actual plan that can be worked to. I think your bit about the Tories and labour not getting a grip on this and helping Reform is very true. Both Tories and labour know this is a hot topic and that people have concerns, hence how much political energy they put into it. The same people are fed up with broken promises from politicians and fed up with not being listened to or even told their concerns are not valid/ should not be discussed. Exactly and anyone raising their concerns is labelled far right, anyone defending the rights of the refugee convention are branded hard left, far left etc. No government direction leaves a void that is quickly filled by extremists on both sides of the void. Yes it's a problem when debate cannot happen in a reasonable way as some will try to shut it down at the outset. How many times do you hear things like ' that's a typical GB news story ' or ' you must be reading the daily mail to much '. It often feels like they don't want it discussed at all, rather hush it up instead. Both sides do this sort of thing and it leaves people frustrated that they have concerns but are not listened to. What reasonable debate do you feel is being shut down? For me it's when the early conversation contains accusations of others being far right or far left. Being told you must be a daily mail reader or a daily mirror reader. Told there are to many conversations on this topic. This is my personal view and I feel it aids certain parties as they exploit the void Sometimes it's easier to say "that's very Daily Mail" than, "that's very misleading, giving a half truth, is out of context, isn't giving the full picture, and is designed to cause outrage in people who aren't paying proper attention to what's going on". It isn't intended to shut down the conversation. That sounds like an insult to anyone who reads a particular paper and does not take into account that people who read that paper may read several other sources and may well be paying more attention than you give credit for. Fair enough, but if people feel insulted for reading the Daily Mail..... To me insults are a way of shutting down debate or deliberately causing them to descend into a slanging match instead of actually talking about what ever the subject may be. I have just started reading the thread on the Epping incident. Only a few posts in before far right, leftists and racists terms were used Someone else pointed this out, but if the story is about violent racists, it's kinda hard not to use those words. " The story is about violent racists if you follow the path that you campaign against, media and government influence to define the narrative. If the narrative is ticking your all your boxes, maybe take a moment to look beyond your own sources of info to see if a 360 view could be beneficial. Or don't. | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"people also have genuine concerns about the true motives of the anti-immigrant lobby, particularly farage and his ultra-violent race rioters ... who incidently are currently smashing up, setting fire to and generally causing widespread damage to a community in Epping. A few maybe, but the country at large are fucked of with these free loading migrants lording it up in hotels at their expense Again, 100% what I'm saying. Reform voters believe this kind of horse shit is A. Real, and B. Legitimate. The concerns are there and real for people, whether you have the same concerns or not. Both Labour and the Tories have let the country down by not getting on top of this mess, and that has opened the door for Reform and they didn't even need to try. The convention we signed up to doesn't allow us to prosecute someone for seeking asylum, however, that doesn't mean we should not be able to secure the countries borders and this is the main point of contention. We need a deterrent, a strong deterrent and I would advocate for a hard stop and return policy such as Greece has implemented to allow our the stretched services, that deal with thousands of people a week arriving by small boat, a chance to catch up. We would then see the wood for the trees, and get on top of processing in a timely manner, right now the sheer numbers are overwhelming the efforts to process quickly. We need a reset and a some breathing space to take back some control. That in my opinion should satisfy all sides, with an actual plan that can be worked to. I think your bit about the Tories and labour not getting a grip on this and helping Reform is very true. Both Tories and labour know this is a hot topic and that people have concerns, hence how much political energy they put into it. The same people are fed up with broken promises from politicians and fed up with not being listened to or even told their concerns are not valid/ should not be discussed. Exactly and anyone raising their concerns is labelled far right, anyone defending the rights of the refugee convention are branded hard left, far left etc. No government direction leaves a void that is quickly filled by extremists on both sides of the void. Yes it's a problem when debate cannot happen in a reasonable way as some will try to shut it down at the outset. How many times do you hear things like ' that's a typical GB news story ' or ' you must be reading the daily mail to much '. It often feels like they don't want it discussed at all, rather hush it up instead. Both sides do this sort of thing and it leaves people frustrated that they have concerns but are not listened to. What reasonable debate do you feel is being shut down? For me it's when the early conversation contains accusations of others being far right or far left. Being told you must be a daily mail reader or a daily mirror reader. Told there are to many conversations on this topic. This is my personal view and I feel it aids certain parties as they exploit the void Sometimes it's easier to say "that's very Daily Mail" than, "that's very misleading, giving a half truth, is out of context, isn't giving the full picture, and is designed to cause outrage in people who aren't paying proper attention to what's going on". It isn't intended to shut down the conversation. That sounds like an insult to anyone who reads a particular paper and does not take into account that people who read that paper may read several other sources and may well be paying more attention than you give credit for. Fair enough, but if people feel insulted for reading the Daily Mail..... To me insults are a way of shutting down debate or deliberately causing them to descend into a slanging match instead of actually talking about what ever the subject may be. I have just started reading the thread on the Epping incident. Only a few posts in before far right, leftists and racists terms were used Someone else pointed this out, but if the story is about violent racists, it's kinda hard not to use those words. " I think this is where we differ. In your previous post you said it's easier to say daily mail than lots of negative things you listed. To me you associate daily mail readers with these things and when you call someone that, then you are in effect saying those negative things about them. So in my opinion people understand this and take your associations as the insult, not the fact they may read the paper sometimes. Their was most probably racist elements in the Epping situation and people of all political persuasion just out to cause trouble but there were also lots of local concerned people peacefully protesting. | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"people also have genuine concerns about the true motives of the anti-immigrant lobby, particularly farage and his ultra-violent race rioters ... who incidently are currently smashing up, setting fire to and generally causing widespread damage to a community in Epping. A few maybe, but the country at large are fucked of with these free loading migrants lording it up in hotels at their expense Again, 100% what I'm saying. Reform voters believe this kind of horse shit is A. Real, and B. Legitimate. The concerns are there and real for people, whether you have the same concerns or not. Both Labour and the Tories have let the country down by not getting on top of this mess, and that has opened the door for Reform and they didn't even need to try. The convention we signed up to doesn't allow us to prosecute someone for seeking asylum, however, that doesn't mean we should not be able to secure the countries borders and this is the main point of contention. We need a deterrent, a strong deterrent and I would advocate for a hard stop and return policy such as Greece has implemented to allow our the stretched services, that deal with thousands of people a week arriving by small boat, a chance to catch up. We would then see the wood for the trees, and get on top of processing in a timely manner, right now the sheer numbers are overwhelming the efforts to process quickly. We need a reset and a some breathing space to take back some control. That in my opinion should satisfy all sides, with an actual plan that can be worked to. I think your bit about the Tories and labour not getting a grip on this and helping Reform is very true. Both Tories and labour know this is a hot topic and that people have concerns, hence how much political energy they put into it. The same people are fed up with broken promises from politicians and fed up with not being listened to or even told their concerns are not valid/ should not be discussed. Exactly and anyone raising their concerns is labelled far right, anyone defending the rights of the refugee convention are branded hard left, far left etc. No government direction leaves a void that is quickly filled by extremists on both sides of the void. Yes it's a problem when debate cannot happen in a reasonable way as some will try to shut it down at the outset. How many times do you hear things like ' that's a typical GB news story ' or ' you must be reading the daily mail to much '. It often feels like they don't want it discussed at all, rather hush it up instead. Both sides do this sort of thing and it leaves people frustrated that they have concerns but are not listened to. What reasonable debate do you feel is being shut down? For me it's when the early conversation contains accusations of others being far right or far left. Being told you must be a daily mail reader or a daily mirror reader. Told there are to many conversations on this topic. This is my personal view and I feel it aids certain parties as they exploit the void Sometimes it's easier to say "that's very Daily Mail" than, "that's very misleading, giving a half truth, is out of context, isn't giving the full picture, and is designed to cause outrage in people who aren't paying proper attention to what's going on". It isn't intended to shut down the conversation. That sounds like an insult to anyone who reads a particular paper and does not take into account that people who read that paper may read several other sources and may well be paying more attention than you give credit for. Fair enough, but if people feel insulted for reading the Daily Mail..... To me insults are a way of shutting down debate or deliberately causing them to descend into a slanging match instead of actually talking about what ever the subject may be. I have just started reading the thread on the Epping incident. Only a few posts in before far right, leftists and racists terms were used Someone else pointed this out, but if the story is about violent racists, it's kinda hard not to use those words. The story is about violent racists if you follow the path that you campaign against, media and government influence to define the narrative. If the narrative is ticking your all your boxes, maybe take a moment to look beyond your own sources of info to see if a 360 view could be beneficial. Or don't." 
Solid.
Although the story is about violent racists attacking a hotel and causing havoc. Like this is what's actually happening in real life. | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"people also have genuine concerns about the true motives of the anti-immigrant lobby, particularly farage and his ultra-violent race rioters ... who incidently are currently smashing up, setting fire to and generally causing widespread damage to a community in Epping. A few maybe, but the country at large are fucked of with these free loading migrants lording it up in hotels at their expense Again, 100% what I'm saying. Reform voters believe this kind of horse shit is A. Real, and B. Legitimate. The concerns are there and real for people, whether you have the same concerns or not. Both Labour and the Tories have let the country down by not getting on top of this mess, and that has opened the door for Reform and they didn't even need to try. The convention we signed up to doesn't allow us to prosecute someone for seeking asylum, however, that doesn't mean we should not be able to secure the countries borders and this is the main point of contention. We need a deterrent, a strong deterrent and I would advocate for a hard stop and return policy such as Greece has implemented to allow our the stretched services, that deal with thousands of people a week arriving by small boat, a chance to catch up. We would then see the wood for the trees, and get on top of processing in a timely manner, right now the sheer numbers are overwhelming the efforts to process quickly. We need a reset and a some breathing space to take back some control. That in my opinion should satisfy all sides, with an actual plan that can be worked to. I think your bit about the Tories and labour not getting a grip on this and helping Reform is very true. Both Tories and labour know this is a hot topic and that people have concerns, hence how much political energy they put into it. The same people are fed up with broken promises from politicians and fed up with not being listened to or even told their concerns are not valid/ should not be discussed. Exactly and anyone raising their concerns is labelled far right, anyone defending the rights of the refugee convention are branded hard left, far left etc. No government direction leaves a void that is quickly filled by extremists on both sides of the void. Yes it's a problem when debate cannot happen in a reasonable way as some will try to shut it down at the outset. How many times do you hear things like ' that's a typical GB news story ' or ' you must be reading the daily mail to much '. It often feels like they don't want it discussed at all, rather hush it up instead. Both sides do this sort of thing and it leaves people frustrated that they have concerns but are not listened to. What reasonable debate do you feel is being shut down? For me it's when the early conversation contains accusations of others being far right or far left. Being told you must be a daily mail reader or a daily mirror reader. Told there are to many conversations on this topic. This is my personal view and I feel it aids certain parties as they exploit the void Sometimes it's easier to say "that's very Daily Mail" than, "that's very misleading, giving a half truth, is out of context, isn't giving the full picture, and is designed to cause outrage in people who aren't paying proper attention to what's going on". It isn't intended to shut down the conversation. That sounds like an insult to anyone who reads a particular paper and does not take into account that people who read that paper may read several other sources and may well be paying more attention than you give credit for. Fair enough, but if people feel insulted for reading the Daily Mail..... To me insults are a way of shutting down debate or deliberately causing them to descend into a slanging match instead of actually talking about what ever the subject may be. I have just started reading the thread on the Epping incident. Only a few posts in before far right, leftists and racists terms were used Someone else pointed this out, but if the story is about violent racists, it's kinda hard not to use those words. The story is about violent racists if you follow the path that you campaign against, media and government influence to define the narrative. If the narrative is ticking your all your boxes, maybe take a moment to look beyond your own sources of info to see if a 360 view could be beneficial. Or don't.
Solid.
Although the story is about violent racists attacking a hotel and causing havoc. Like this is what's actually happening in real life."The story is as you often say, whatever the media and government want you to hear. There is far more to the story in Epping than one sided violence. | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"people also have genuine concerns about the true motives of the anti-immigrant lobby, particularly farage and his ultra-violent race rioters ... who incidently are currently smashing up, setting fire to and generally causing widespread damage to a community in Epping. A few maybe, but the country at large are fucked of with these free loading migrants lording it up in hotels at their expense Again, 100% what I'm saying. Reform voters believe this kind of horse shit is A. Real, and B. Legitimate. The concerns are there and real for people, whether you have the same concerns or not. Both Labour and the Tories have let the country down by not getting on top of this mess, and that has opened the door for Reform and they didn't even need to try. The convention we signed up to doesn't allow us to prosecute someone for seeking asylum, however, that doesn't mean we should not be able to secure the countries borders and this is the main point of contention. We need a deterrent, a strong deterrent and I would advocate for a hard stop and return policy such as Greece has implemented to allow our the stretched services, that deal with thousands of people a week arriving by small boat, a chance to catch up. We would then see the wood for the trees, and get on top of processing in a timely manner, right now the sheer numbers are overwhelming the efforts to process quickly. We need a reset and a some breathing space to take back some control. That in my opinion should satisfy all sides, with an actual plan that can be worked to. I think your bit about the Tories and labour not getting a grip on this and helping Reform is very true. Both Tories and labour know this is a hot topic and that people have concerns, hence how much political energy they put into it. The same people are fed up with broken promises from politicians and fed up with not being listened to or even told their concerns are not valid/ should not be discussed. Exactly and anyone raising their concerns is labelled far right, anyone defending the rights of the refugee convention are branded hard left, far left etc. No government direction leaves a void that is quickly filled by extremists on both sides of the void. Yes it's a problem when debate cannot happen in a reasonable way as some will try to shut it down at the outset. How many times do you hear things like ' that's a typical GB news story ' or ' you must be reading the daily mail to much '. It often feels like they don't want it discussed at all, rather hush it up instead. Both sides do this sort of thing and it leaves people frustrated that they have concerns but are not listened to. What reasonable debate do you feel is being shut down? For me it's when the early conversation contains accusations of others being far right or far left. Being told you must be a daily mail reader or a daily mirror reader. Told there are to many conversations on this topic. This is my personal view and I feel it aids certain parties as they exploit the void Sometimes it's easier to say "that's very Daily Mail" than, "that's very misleading, giving a half truth, is out of context, isn't giving the full picture, and is designed to cause outrage in people who aren't paying proper attention to what's going on". It isn't intended to shut down the conversation. That sounds like an insult to anyone who reads a particular paper and does not take into account that people who read that paper may read several other sources and may well be paying more attention than you give credit for. Fair enough, but if people feel insulted for reading the Daily Mail..... To me insults are a way of shutting down debate or deliberately causing them to descend into a slanging match instead of actually talking about what ever the subject may be. I have just started reading the thread on the Epping incident. Only a few posts in before far right, leftists and racists terms were used Someone else pointed this out, but if the story is about violent racists, it's kinda hard not to use those words. The story is about violent racists if you follow the path that you campaign against, media and government influence to define the narrative. If the narrative is ticking your all your boxes, maybe take a moment to look beyond your own sources of info to see if a 360 view could be beneficial. Or don't.
Solid.
Although the story is about violent racists attacking a hotel and causing havoc. Like this is what's actually happening in real life.
The story is as you often say, whatever the media and government want you to hear. There is far more to the story in Epping than one sided violence."Yes, there are also non-violent non-racists, who don't blame immigrants for everything, in other words, normal people. It's a sad reflection of the state of the country in 2025, that what should just be normal people being normal, is now part of the story. | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"people also have genuine concerns about the true motives of the anti-immigrant lobby, particularly farage and his ultra-violent race rioters ... who incidently are currently smashing up, setting fire to and generally causing widespread damage to a community in Epping. A few maybe, but the country at large are fucked of with these free loading migrants lording it up in hotels at their expense Again, 100% what I'm saying. Reform voters believe this kind of horse shit is A. Real, and B. Legitimate. The concerns are there and real for people, whether you have the same concerns or not. Both Labour and the Tories have let the country down by not getting on top of this mess, and that has opened the door for Reform and they didn't even need to try. The convention we signed up to doesn't allow us to prosecute someone for seeking asylum, however, that doesn't mean we should not be able to secure the countries borders and this is the main point of contention. We need a deterrent, a strong deterrent and I would advocate for a hard stop and return policy such as Greece has implemented to allow our the stretched services, that deal with thousands of people a week arriving by small boat, a chance to catch up. We would then see the wood for the trees, and get on top of processing in a timely manner, right now the sheer numbers are overwhelming the efforts to process quickly. We need a reset and a some breathing space to take back some control. That in my opinion should satisfy all sides, with an actual plan that can be worked to. I think your bit about the Tories and labour not getting a grip on this and helping Reform is very true. Both Tories and labour know this is a hot topic and that people have concerns, hence how much political energy they put into it. The same people are fed up with broken promises from politicians and fed up with not being listened to or even told their concerns are not valid/ should not be discussed. Exactly and anyone raising their concerns is labelled far right, anyone defending the rights of the refugee convention are branded hard left, far left etc. No government direction leaves a void that is quickly filled by extremists on both sides of the void. Yes it's a problem when debate cannot happen in a reasonable way as some will try to shut it down at the outset. How many times do you hear things like ' that's a typical GB news story ' or ' you must be reading the daily mail to much '. It often feels like they don't want it discussed at all, rather hush it up instead. Both sides do this sort of thing and it leaves people frustrated that they have concerns but are not listened to. What reasonable debate do you feel is being shut down? For me it's when the early conversation contains accusations of others being far right or far left. Being told you must be a daily mail reader or a daily mirror reader. Told there are to many conversations on this topic. This is my personal view and I feel it aids certain parties as they exploit the void Sometimes it's easier to say "that's very Daily Mail" than, "that's very misleading, giving a half truth, is out of context, isn't giving the full picture, and is designed to cause outrage in people who aren't paying proper attention to what's going on". It isn't intended to shut down the conversation. That sounds like an insult to anyone who reads a particular paper and does not take into account that people who read that paper may read several other sources and may well be paying more attention than you give credit for. Fair enough, but if people feel insulted for reading the Daily Mail..... To me insults are a way of shutting down debate or deliberately causing them to descend into a slanging match instead of actually talking about what ever the subject may be. I have just started reading the thread on the Epping incident. Only a few posts in before far right, leftists and racists terms were used Someone else pointed this out, but if the story is about violent racists, it's kinda hard not to use those words. The story is about violent racists if you follow the path that you campaign against, media and government influence to define the narrative. If the narrative is ticking your all your boxes, maybe take a moment to look beyond your own sources of info to see if a 360 view could be beneficial. Or don't.
Solid.
Although the story is about violent racists attacking a hotel and causing havoc. Like this is what's actually happening in real life.
The story is as you often say, whatever the media and government want you to hear. There is far more to the story in Epping than one sided violence.
Yes, there are also non-violent non-racists, who don't blame immigrants for everything, in other words, normal people.
It's a sad reflection of the state of the country in 2025, that what should just be normal people being normal, is now part of the story. "You mean the Socialist Worker and Antifa brownshirts being shipped in by Essex Police to intimidate the local citizenry? The same Essex Police who arrested a reputable broadsheet journalist for saying something they didn’t like. | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"people also have genuine concerns about the true motives of the anti-immigrant lobby, particularly farage and his ultra-violent race rioters ... who incidently are currently smashing up, setting fire to and generally causing widespread damage to a community in Epping. A few maybe, but the country at large are fucked of with these free loading migrants lording it up in hotels at their expense Again, 100% what I'm saying. Reform voters believe this kind of horse shit is A. Real, and B. Legitimate. The concerns are there and real for people, whether you have the same concerns or not. Both Labour and the Tories have let the country down by not getting on top of this mess, and that has opened the door for Reform and they didn't even need to try. The convention we signed up to doesn't allow us to prosecute someone for seeking asylum, however, that doesn't mean we should not be able to secure the countries borders and this is the main point of contention. We need a deterrent, a strong deterrent and I would advocate for a hard stop and return policy such as Greece has implemented to allow our the stretched services, that deal with thousands of people a week arriving by small boat, a chance to catch up. We would then see the wood for the trees, and get on top of processing in a timely manner, right now the sheer numbers are overwhelming the efforts to process quickly. We need a reset and a some breathing space to take back some control. That in my opinion should satisfy all sides, with an actual plan that can be worked to. I think your bit about the Tories and labour not getting a grip on this and helping Reform is very true. Both Tories and labour know this is a hot topic and that people have concerns, hence how much political energy they put into it. The same people are fed up with broken promises from politicians and fed up with not being listened to or even told their concerns are not valid/ should not be discussed. Exactly and anyone raising their concerns is labelled far right, anyone defending the rights of the refugee convention are branded hard left, far left etc. No government direction leaves a void that is quickly filled by extremists on both sides of the void. Yes it's a problem when debate cannot happen in a reasonable way as some will try to shut it down at the outset. How many times do you hear things like ' that's a typical GB news story ' or ' you must be reading the daily mail to much '. It often feels like they don't want it discussed at all, rather hush it up instead. Both sides do this sort of thing and it leaves people frustrated that they have concerns but are not listened to. What reasonable debate do you feel is being shut down? For me it's when the early conversation contains accusations of others being far right or far left. Being told you must be a daily mail reader or a daily mirror reader. Told there are to many conversations on this topic. This is my personal view and I feel it aids certain parties as they exploit the void Sometimes it's easier to say "that's very Daily Mail" than, "that's very misleading, giving a half truth, is out of context, isn't giving the full picture, and is designed to cause outrage in people who aren't paying proper attention to what's going on". It isn't intended to shut down the conversation. That sounds like an insult to anyone who reads a particular paper and does not take into account that people who read that paper may read several other sources and may well be paying more attention than you give credit for. Fair enough, but if people feel insulted for reading the Daily Mail..... To me insults are a way of shutting down debate or deliberately causing them to descend into a slanging match instead of actually talking about what ever the subject may be. I have just started reading the thread on the Epping incident. Only a few posts in before far right, leftists and racists terms were used Someone else pointed this out, but if the story is about violent racists, it's kinda hard not to use those words. The story is about violent racists if you follow the path that you campaign against, media and government influence to define the narrative. If the narrative is ticking your all your boxes, maybe take a moment to look beyond your own sources of info to see if a 360 view could be beneficial. Or don't.
Solid.
Although the story is about violent racists attacking a hotel and causing havoc. Like this is what's actually happening in real life.
The story is as you often say, whatever the media and government want you to hear. There is far more to the story in Epping than one sided violence.
Yes, there are also non-violent non-racists, who don't blame immigrants for everything, in other words, normal people.
It's a sad reflection of the state of the country in 2025, that what should just be normal people being normal, is now part of the story. "Presumably you are referring to the paid, masked up, violence threatening anti-racists shipped in by Essex Police? What a world we live live in where people have a hard on for unknown, undocumented men causing havoc and locals concerned for their kids and community are the villains. | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
| |||
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"people also have genuine concerns about the true motives of the anti-immigrant lobby, particularly farage and his ultra-violent race rioters ... who incidently are currently smashing up, setting fire to and generally causing widespread damage to a community in Epping. A few maybe, but the country at large are fucked of with these free loading migrants lording it up in hotels at their expense Again, 100% what I'm saying. Reform voters believe this kind of horse shit is A. Real, and B. Legitimate. The concerns are there and real for people, whether you have the same concerns or not. Both Labour and the Tories have let the country down by not getting on top of this mess, and that has opened the door for Reform and they didn't even need to try. The convention we signed up to doesn't allow us to prosecute someone for seeking asylum, however, that doesn't mean we should not be able to secure the countries borders and this is the main point of contention. We need a deterrent, a strong deterrent and I would advocate for a hard stop and return policy such as Greece has implemented to allow our the stretched services, that deal with thousands of people a week arriving by small boat, a chance to catch up. We would then see the wood for the trees, and get on top of processing in a timely manner, right now the sheer numbers are overwhelming the efforts to process quickly. We need a reset and a some breathing space to take back some control. That in my opinion should satisfy all sides, with an actual plan that can be worked to. I think your bit about the Tories and labour not getting a grip on this and helping Reform is very true. Both Tories and labour know this is a hot topic and that people have concerns, hence how much political energy they put into it. The same people are fed up with broken promises from politicians and fed up with not being listened to or even told their concerns are not valid/ should not be discussed. Exactly and anyone raising their concerns is labelled far right, anyone defending the rights of the refugee convention are branded hard left, far left etc. No government direction leaves a void that is quickly filled by extremists on both sides of the void. Yes it's a problem when debate cannot happen in a reasonable way as some will try to shut it down at the outset. How many times do you hear things like ' that's a typical GB news story ' or ' you must be reading the daily mail to much '. It often feels like they don't want it discussed at all, rather hush it up instead. Both sides do this sort of thing and it leaves people frustrated that they have concerns but are not listened to. What reasonable debate do you feel is being shut down? For me it's when the early conversation contains accusations of others being far right or far left. Being told you must be a daily mail reader or a daily mirror reader. Told there are to many conversations on this topic. This is my personal view and I feel it aids certain parties as they exploit the void Sometimes it's easier to say "that's very Daily Mail" than, "that's very misleading, giving a half truth, is out of context, isn't giving the full picture, and is designed to cause outrage in people who aren't paying proper attention to what's going on". It isn't intended to shut down the conversation. That sounds like an insult to anyone who reads a particular paper and does not take into account that people who read that paper may read several other sources and may well be paying more attention than you give credit for. Fair enough, but if people feel insulted for reading the Daily Mail..... To me insults are a way of shutting down debate or deliberately causing them to descend into a slanging match instead of actually talking about what ever the subject may be. I have just started reading the thread on the Epping incident. Only a few posts in before far right, leftists and racists terms were used Someone else pointed this out, but if the story is about violent racists, it's kinda hard not to use those words. The story is about violent racists if you follow the path that you campaign against, media and government influence to define the narrative. If the narrative is ticking your all your boxes, maybe take a moment to look beyond your own sources of info to see if a 360 view could be beneficial. Or don't.
Solid.
Although the story is about violent racists attacking a hotel and causing havoc. Like this is what's actually happening in real life.
The story is as you often say, whatever the media and government want you to hear. There is far more to the story in Epping than one sided violence.
Yes, there are also non-violent non-racists, who don't blame immigrants for everything, in other words, normal people.
It's a sad reflection of the state of the country in 2025, that what should just be normal people being normal, is now part of the story.
Presumably you are referring to the paid, masked up, violence threatening anti-racists shipped in by Essex Police?
What a world we live live in where people have a hard on for unknown, undocumented men causing havoc and locals concerned for their kids and community are the villains.
"You guys have entered the realm of Lord Of The Rings style fantasy here. Let's try to move back to the five Reform bullshits. | |||
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"In truth, Reform don't need manifesto pledges. All that needs to happen for them to get the keys to power is .....well nothing. If the dinghies keep arriving on a daily basis, Reform are a shoo-in at the next GE." Agree. Until they do what the Tories did, ultra-over-egg the anti immigrant propaganda until people vote for an even further far right party, who have even more horrific rhetoric, and who are even more extreme in their support for big corporations. | |||
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"I’m not sure people are as concerned about the minutiae as they are about the general thrust of the policies. We all know that the Tories failed. We can all see that Labour is failing. We have carried on switching between them and all we get is continued failure. Reform may fail too. They may not. But we have plenty of evidence that Labour and the Tories will fail so there is little point continuing to stick with them." . My thoughts exactly | |||
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"In truth, Reform don't need manifesto pledges. All that needs to happen for them to get the keys to power is .....well nothing. If the dinghies keep arriving on a daily basis, Reform are a shoo-in at the next GE." Very similar to my thoughts though I am still not convinced come election time they will actually win but gaining ground is a big possibility. Much is to do with the Tories failed attempts and now Labour attempts at dealing with the small boats crossings. If labour should also fail it feeds Reform, especially when those normal, non violent, non racist, non daily mail readers voice concerns | |||
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"Farage convinces the Tories to have in/ out referendum Farage convinces people to vote leave We leave We become poorer We get small boats crossing the Chanel Farage tells people the Tories and Labour have made us poorer Farage blames the small boats on previous governments In a very scary way he is good at what he does I won't fall for it but many have and still do " they can't stop him, I know they debanked him and threw stuff at him and it all bounces off him. Watch his hands when he speaks to an audience, he his doing the jedi mind trick, what chance do us mortals have against such power. | |||
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"Farage promising zero tolerance on crime First time I think I agree with him Wonder what he would do to his protesters attacking our police outside the hotel this week And would he increase jail terms for the murderers who set fire to hotels in the summer riots (:well I suppose attempted murderers because they failed in what they were trying to do ) ,, don't think I have actually heard him speak up against this violent thuggery which is strange for someone promising zero tolerance of crime " Not that type of crime. | |||
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"Farage promising zero tolerance on crime First time I think I agree with him Wonder what he would do to his protesters attacking our police outside the hotel this week And would he increase jail terms for the murderers who set fire to hotels in the summer riots (:well I suppose attempted murderers because they failed in what they were trying to do ) ,, don't think I have actually heard him speak up against this violent thuggery which is strange for someone promising zero tolerance of crime Not that type of crime." Ah , thanks for explaining | |||
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"Farage convinces the Tories to have in/ out referendum Farage convinces people to vote leave We leave We become poorer We get small boats crossing the Chanel Farage tells people the Tories and Labour have made us poorer Farage blames the small boats on previous governments In a very scary way he is good at what he does I won't fall for it but many have and still do " He is very good at bringing people's concerns into the limelight and capitalising on it. His greatest asset is how those opposing him react and the language they use. Reading placards at the demonstration saying things like ' I'm not far right, I'm just concerned for my kids' is a result of how his opponents try to brush away any concerns people have by just accusing them of being far right. They are fed up of not being listened to and being accused of all sorts to try to silence them. | |||
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