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"Or put up income tax by a couple of percent for a year or two, then there's no debt to pay off" Theoretically, but increasing income tax has a negative effect on a lot of other taxes. Less raised from VAT is an obvious one. Less spent on alcohol so less tax there. More people pushed the wrong side of the benefits trap so less in tax and more spent on benefits. Tweaking one figure within the economy affects lots of others. But when you’re already in debt for nearly 3 trillion quid, an extra £20 billion isn’t a big hit. | |||
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"Simple solution: Offshore medical treatment. Ship people to low cost (but decent quality) locations, to help clear the backlog. Start by making it an optional alternative for those on long lists. It's politically toxic, but discussions with consultants in hospitals suggest it's eminently doable." Assuming they don’t have waiting lists as well. Also I think people would be worried about the standard of care. You hear horror stories about places like Turkey all the time. Go for a cheap liposuction and unwittingly donate a kidney. | |||
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"Simple solution: Offshore medical treatment. Ship people to low cost (but decent quality) locations, to help clear the backlog. Start by making it an optional alternative for those on long lists. It's politically toxic, but discussions with consultants in hospitals suggest it's eminently doable. Assuming they don’t have waiting lists as well. Also I think people would be worried about the standard of care. You hear horror stories about places like Turkey all the time. Go for a cheap liposuction and unwittingly donate a kidney. " We're not talking about dodgy cosmetic surgery. Things like hip replacements might be candidates. Overseas doesn't mean bad quality (that's just Western superiority thinking). Also, if the alternative is waiting three years, or being told "you're not lame enough yet", many might volunteer for offshore surgery. The doctors would be up in arms, saying "those dark illiterate buggers don't match our standards" (they wouldn't use those words, but they would tap into those sentiments, since this would heavily reduce their bargaining power and monopoly). It would be a hard political sell, but it's about the only thing we could do within 10 years. "Fixing the system" would take a decade, but never actually happen because of "the usual reasons". | |||
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"Simple solution: Offshore medical treatment. Ship people to low cost (but decent quality) locations, to help clear the backlog. Start by making it an optional alternative for those on long lists. It's politically toxic, but discussions with consultants in hospitals suggest it's eminently doable. Assuming they don’t have waiting lists as well. Also I think people would be worried about the standard of care. You hear horror stories about places like Turkey all the time. Go for a cheap liposuction and unwittingly donate a kidney. We're not talking about dodgy cosmetic surgery. Things like hip replacements might be candidates. Overseas doesn't mean bad quality (that's just Western superiority thinking). Also, if the alternative is waiting three years, or being told "you're not lame enough yet", many might volunteer for offshore surgery. The doctors would be up in arms, saying "those dark illiterate buggers don't match our standards" (they wouldn't use those words, but they would tap into those sentiments, since this would heavily reduce their bargaining power and monopoly). It would be a hard political sell, but it's about the only thing we could do within 10 years. "Fixing the system" would take a decade, but never actually happen because of "the usual reasons"." I know what we’re talking about, I started the thread. Would you have preferred I said “go for a hip replacement and unwittingly donate a kidney?” Sending people overseas is a decent suggestion, I just pointed out potential pitfalls. And you just pointed out another, it would be a tough sell politically, and that’s because of the perceived standard of care. I’ve no idea if that is baseless or accurate, I’ve never been in a hospital outside of the UK. There’s another issue as well. Who does the aftercare if things don’t go as planned? You can force a UK private hospital to take responsibility for their actions, how do you force one in Azerbaijan? And are we paying for family to visit them? Hotels and flights? It’s an interesting idea but I personally don’t think it’s a runner. | |||
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"Simple solution: Offshore medical treatment. Ship people to low cost (but decent quality) locations, to help clear the backlog. Start by making it an optional alternative for those on long lists. It's politically toxic, but discussions with consultants in hospitals suggest it's eminently doable." Virtually everyone I know who has had any medical procedure recently via RNHS has been treated in a private hospital at taxpayers expense. Picking up on your point though, if it’s okay for me to speak to a GP or consultant on the phone (many of who are foreign anyway) then why can’t I simply speak to a doctor working abroad about the same issues? It’s fairly common for all of us to speak to people based abroad for private sector service issues, so why not for healthcare? Technology is such nowadays that it doesn’t really matter where people are based much of the time. And many overseas health services are way better than the healthcare we get in the UK so we may see significant improvement in service at lower cost. I appreciate there are the usual vested interests that would push back against any kind of change, but that confrontation is inevitable anyway sooner or later. | |||
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"Simple solution: Offshore medical treatment. Ship people to low cost (but decent quality) locations, to help clear the backlog. Start by making it an optional alternative for those on long lists. It's politically toxic, but discussions with consultants in hospitals suggest it's eminently doable." Very interesting.. I have just looked up the cost for a hip replacement privately in India, plus travel. India high end cost £9500 UK high end cost £16500 Makes sense if people would be willing to travel. The only drawback to this might be follow up visits. If there are significant amounts of people needing aftercare, I'm guessing the problem moves from one part of the process to another. | |||
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"We don’t need any more money for the nhs People need to start taking personal responsibility. Over £45bn a year spent on treating the ailments of 25 million overweight adults, 15 million obese adults, drug addicts, smoking related diseases and alcoholism, add a third of children overweight. Another £20bn annual cost of malnutrition and a government being lobbied by likes of Unilever who want to continue feeding us on ultra processed foods. Poor income areas targeted by retailers selling ultra processed foods. We have an unhealthy nation and none of it caused by the nhs " I agree with much of what you said, but that’s not relevant to the thread. The thread isn’t about increasing the NHS budget, the budget is about right as waiting lists aren’t increasing significantly. It’s about a one off spend outside the NHS to massively reduce waiting lists so that once your issue is identified you can be treated very quickly because we’ve dealt with the backlog. | |||
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"Or put up income tax by a couple of percent for a year or two, then there's no debt to pay off Theoretically, but increasing income tax has a negative effect on a lot of other taxes. Less raised from VAT is an obvious one. Less spent on alcohol so less tax there. More people pushed the wrong side of the benefits trap so less in tax and more spent on benefits. Tweaking one figure within the economy affects lots of others. But when you’re already in debt for nearly 3 trillion quid, an extra £20 billion isn’t a big hit. " | |||
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"Or put up income tax by a couple of percent for a year or two, then there's no debt to pay off Theoretically, but increasing income tax has a negative effect on a lot of other taxes. Less raised from VAT is an obvious one. Less spent on alcohol so less tax there. More people pushed the wrong side of the benefits trap so less in tax and more spent on benefits. Tweaking one figure within the economy affects lots of others. But when you’re already in debt for nearly 3 trillion quid, an extra £20 billion isn’t a big hit. " well if you're going down the road of infantile nonsense economics as a rebutal then just make eveyone pay the going rate for their treatment. they won't be able to afford food, electric, water or rent let alone the half a pint of beer a week that that is 1% on tax you've claimed would be prohibitive. | |||
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"Or put up income tax by a couple of percent for a year or two, then there's no debt to pay off" The uk tax gap is reported to be £40bn a year. Try that first | |||
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"Or put up income tax by a couple of percent for a year or two, then there's no debt to pay off Theoretically, but increasing income tax has a negative effect on a lot of other taxes. Less raised from VAT is an obvious one. Less spent on alcohol so less tax there. More people pushed the wrong side of the benefits trap so less in tax and more spent on benefits. Tweaking one figure within the economy affects lots of others. But when you’re already in debt for nearly 3 trillion quid, an extra £20 billion isn’t a big hit. well if you're going down the road of infantile nonsense economics as a rebutal then just make eveyone pay the going rate for their treatment. they won't be able to afford food, electric, water or rent let alone the half a pint of beer a week that that is 1% on tax you've claimed would be prohibitive." Just because you may not understand what I’ve said, doesn’t make it infantile | |||
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"Simple solution: Offshore medical treatment. Ship people to low cost (but decent quality) locations, to help clear the backlog. Start by making it an optional alternative for those on long lists. It's politically toxic, but discussions with consultants in hospitals suggest it's eminently doable. Assuming they don’t have waiting lists as well. Also I think people would be worried about the standard of care. You hear horror stories about places like Turkey all the time. Go for a cheap liposuction and unwittingly donate a kidney. We're not talking about dodgy cosmetic surgery. Things like hip replacements might be candidates. Overseas doesn't mean bad quality (that's just Western superiority thinking). Also, if the alternative is waiting three years, or being told "you're not lame enough yet", many might volunteer for offshore surgery. The doctors would be up in arms, saying "those dark illiterate buggers don't match our standards" (they wouldn't use those words, but they would tap into those sentiments, since this would heavily reduce their bargaining power and monopoly). It would be a hard political sell, but it's about the only thing we could do within 10 years. "Fixing the system" would take a decade, but never actually happen because of "the usual reasons". I know what we’re talking about, I started the thread. Would you have preferred I said “go for a hip replacement and unwittingly donate a kidney?” Sending people overseas is a decent suggestion, I just pointed out potential pitfalls. And you just pointed out another, it would be a tough sell politically, and that’s because of the perceived standard of care. I’ve no idea if that is baseless or accurate, I’ve never been in a hospital outside of the UK. There’s another issue as well. Who does the aftercare if things don’t go as planned? You can force a UK private hospital to take responsibility for their actions, how do you force one in Azerbaijan? And are we paying for family to visit them? Hotels and flights? It’s an interesting idea but I personally don’t think it’s a runner. " After care is NHS I had a private operation in December 2024 all went a bit wrong the consultant also dose NHS and the second operation was NHS by a different guy as my consultant was on holiday. Second operation was 18th February and I'm still recovering. | |||
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