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"Reading between the lines from the majority of posts on here where the individual obviously dislikes the EU; Labour; immigrants; privatisation; the wealthy; taxes; pensioners; freedom of speech; human rights and a whole lot more, I really wonder what some people on here imagine is a perfect 'UK' and how this would be achievable! Is anyone brave enough to propose what they see as the perfect scenario (and how to get there) or is it simply more straightforward to criticise what is currently happening from the sidelines? " Who dislikes freedom of speech? But to answer your question, although quite obvious…. There is no one ideal. Some people are against privatisation and some are against nationalisation. Some are pro EU and some are against. There’s only a handful of political parties with a hope in hell of forming a government. It’s kinda impossible that any sizeable number of people will agree with everything they stand for and the same would apply if anyone here were to state their ideal. That’s politics, there’s no right or wrong, just opinions. | |||
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"Everyone wants the same things personally. Safety, security, a decent living, opportunities for their kids, an effective health service. People will differ about how to achieve these things, and people will differ about how much of a role ‘society’ has to play in helping others out. I believe that core to a nation’s long-term success is public education, health and equity (not equality - subtle difference)." So a keynesian economy? The same economy that was trashed by Regan and Thatcherism 40 years ago and has continued to be eroded with the 'promise' that the free market will provide for us all? | |||
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"Everyone wants the same things personally. Safety, security, a decent living, opportunities for their kids, an effective health service. People will differ about how to achieve these things, and people will differ about how much of a role ‘society’ has to play in helping others out. I believe that core to a nation’s long-term success is public education, health and equity (not equality - subtle difference). So a keynesian economy? The same economy that was trashed by Regan and Thatcherism 40 years ago and has continued to be eroded with the 'promise' that the free market will provide for us all?" Am more socialist than Keynes, personally. Keynesian socialism (broadly speaking soc-dem) is as close to ideal as we’re ever likely to see | |||
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"Everyone wants the same things personally. Safety, security, a decent living, opportunities for their kids, an effective health service. People will differ about how to achieve these things, and people will differ about how much of a role ‘society’ has to play in helping others out. I believe that core to a nation’s long-term success is public education, health and equity (not equality - subtle difference)." I’d agree and support this On the health service, this should be adequate but right now clogged up with 25 million overweight, 15 million obese adults, smokers, drug addicts and alcoholics conditions. People need to start taking responsibility How about growing our own healthily foods instead of imported sugar laden products, and meat products supplied from sources of poor animal welfare. Uk Agriculture reduced to 0.6% gdp, taxing farmers land, long waits for allotments and houses with tiny sun blocked gardens unsuitable for growing food. | |||
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"Everyone wants the same things personally. Safety, security, a decent living, opportunities for their kids, an effective health service. People will differ about how to achieve these things, and people will differ about how much of a role ‘society’ has to play in helping others out. I believe that core to a nation’s long-term success is public education, health and equity (not equality - subtle difference). So a keynesian economy? The same economy that was trashed by Regan and Thatcherism 40 years ago and has continued to be eroded with the 'promise' that the free market will provide for us all? Am more socialist than Keynes, personally. Keynesian socialism (broadly speaking soc-dem) is as close to ideal as we’re ever likely to see" Keynes, amongst many others, understood that for capitalism to work for the masses and have a thriving economy, you have to underpin it with socialist concepts. I'd liken it to the rise of the reform party, to what has been an exponential rate recently, is heavily down to (mostly misguided) nostalgia bias. Combining 'the past' with prosperity has been a result for them, without being sincere or equivocal about the range of things that are truly responsible for people having fond memories and an association with a return to the past that will save them. | |||
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"Everyone wants the same things personally. Safety, security, a decent living, opportunities for their kids, an effective health service. People will differ about how to achieve these things, and people will differ about how much of a role ‘society’ has to play in helping others out. I believe that core to a nation’s long-term success is public education, health and equity (not equality - subtle difference). I’d agree and support this On the health service, this should be adequate but right now clogged up with 25 million overweight, 15 million obese adults, smokers, drug addicts and alcoholics conditions. People need to start taking responsibility How about growing our own healthily foods instead of imported sugar laden products, and meat products supplied from sources of poor animal welfare. Uk Agriculture reduced to 0.6% gdp, taxing farmers land, long waits for allotments and houses with tiny sun blocked gardens unsuitable for growing food. " You're talking about culture changes though. I don't know where that really fits into politics and is something very ingrained. Now I don't think it's impossible to change a culture or am I dismissive of what you're saying, but the UK and more broadly speaking most other westernised nations have these problems of their own. Takes generations to change mindsets and that is something you can't do in one term of government. | |||
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"For a society to thrive, you need everyone in the society to take responsibility and contribute to its growth. How do you make an individual take responsibility? Either by force or by getting them believe in the ideal and take responsibility out of their own will. Forcing the responsibility at such a large scale always results in destruction as is seen with the socialist and fascist countries. Getting people to take responsibility themselves? It would be insanely difficult to do it now. The state has kept promising people that they will take care of everything, only to prove time and again that they are so bad at taking care of anything. Also it's impossible to instill any sense of unity through patriotism because after years of experiments with globalism, people have lost any sense of national identity. Long story short, there seems to be no way out. It's easy to say "I want the NHS functioning, trains running, crime rates down, etc" It's hard to say how to do it" I mean what a load of Thatcherite nonsense | |||
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" Long story short, there seems to be no way out. It's easy to say "I want the NHS functioning, trains running, crime rates down, etc" It's hard to say how to do it" It comes down to adequate funding, and letting the actual experts (I.e those in the industry) have a say about future direction. My concern with rail nationalisation (though broadly in favour) is that the DFT either listen to regional and industry leaders, or take them on board as part of the DFT. | |||
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" Long story short, there seems to be no way out. It's easy to say "I want the NHS functioning, trains running, crime rates down, etc" It's hard to say how to do it It comes down to adequate funding, and letting the actual experts (I.e those in the industry) have a say about future direction. My concern with rail nationalisation (though broadly in favour) is that the DFT either listen to regional and industry leaders, or take them on board as part of the DFT." Yes funding. Just a little bit more tax and little bit more borrowing and socialism will solve all the problems that socialism created. As for the experts, no one has an incentive to do it right. So that won't help either. | |||
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"For a society to thrive, you need everyone in the society to take responsibility and contribute to its growth. How do you make an individual take responsibility? Either by force or by getting them believe in the ideal and take responsibility out of their own will. Forcing the responsibility at such a large scale always results in destruction as is seen with the socialist and fascist countries. Getting people to take responsibility themselves? It would be insanely difficult to do it now. The state has kept promising people that they will take care of everything, only to prove time and again that they are so bad at taking care of anything. Also it's impossible to instill any sense of unity through patriotism because after years of experiments with globalism, people have lost any sense of national identity. Long story short, there seems to be no way out. It's easy to say "I want the NHS functioning, trains running, crime rates down, etc" It's hard to say how to do it I mean what a load of Thatcherite nonsense " Great argument. Thoroughly loved it | |||
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" Long story short, there seems to be no way out. It's easy to say "I want the NHS functioning, trains running, crime rates down, etc" It's hard to say how to do it It comes down to adequate funding, and letting the actual experts (I.e those in the industry) have a say about future direction. My concern with rail nationalisation (though broadly in favour) is that the DFT either listen to regional and industry leaders, or take them on board as part of the DFT. Yes funding. Just a little bit more tax and little bit more borrowing and socialism will solve all the problems that socialism created. As for the experts, no one has an incentive to do it right. So that won't help either." There is never enough money for socialism and there never will be. Because there’s always new ideas that need funding. Socialism always sounds so morally righteous, let’s help everyone. Great, wonderful, but the more you help people the less they do for themselves and so generate even less tax revenu to pay for it. What’s interesting is if you take the “heartless approach” and do less for people, they all of a sudden are able to do more for themselves. It’s just a shame that as a people we cant agree on where the middle ground is and settle for it | |||
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"For a society to thrive, you need everyone in the society to take responsibility and contribute to its growth. How do you make an individual take responsibility? Either by force or by getting them believe in the ideal and take responsibility out of their own will. Forcing the responsibility at such a large scale always results in destruction as is seen with the socialist and fascist countries. Getting people to take responsibility themselves? It would be insanely difficult to do it now. The state has kept promising people that they will take care of everything, only to prove time and again that they are so bad at taking care of anything. Also it's impossible to instill any sense of unity through patriotism because after years of experiments with globalism, people have lost any sense of national identity. Long story short, there seems to be no way out. It's easy to say "I want the NHS functioning, trains running, crime rates down, etc" It's hard to say how to do it I mean what a load of Thatcherite nonsense Great argument. Thoroughly loved it "Stating your opinion as fact will garner a more uncouth response in people. | |||
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" Long story short, there seems to be no way out. It's easy to say "I want the NHS functioning, trains running, crime rates down, etc" It's hard to say how to do it It comes down to adequate funding, and letting the actual experts (I.e those in the industry) have a say about future direction. My concern with rail nationalisation (though broadly in favour) is that the DFT either listen to regional and industry leaders, or take them on board as part of the DFT. Yes funding. Just a little bit more tax and little bit more borrowing and socialism will solve all the problems that socialism created. As for the experts, no one has an incentive to do it right. So that won't help either. There is never enough money for socialism and there never will be. Because there’s always new ideas that need funding. Socialism always sounds so morally righteous, let’s help everyone. Great, wonderful, but the more you help people the less they do for themselves and so generate even less tax revenu to pay for it. What’s interesting is if you take the “heartless approach” and do less for people, they all of a sudden are able to do more for themselves. It’s just a shame that as a people we cant agree on where the middle ground is and settle for it " More Thatcherite nonsense | |||
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"Tax the rich "Or euthanise the poor? | |||
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"It’s funny how people in their 40s and 50s have a dislike for Maggie that is based solely on their parents opinion. Mostly blindly following Labour without have listened to or tried to consider the merits of her policies or understand the drivers behind the decisions made. The expectation that the state is responsible for wiping their backsides and offsetting every poor life choice they make… no individual accountability. " Can you explain some of the merits to those policies, and what the drivers to the decisions that were made? Statement is a bit vague Also, who has expectations that the state will "wipe their arse" over poor life decisions? Is there a specific demographic you're generalising? | |||
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"For a society to thrive, you need everyone in the society to take responsibility and contribute to its growth. How do you make an individual take responsibility? Either by force or by getting them believe in the ideal and take responsibility out of their own will. Forcing the responsibility at such a large scale always results in destruction as is seen with the socialist and fascist countries. Getting people to take responsibility themselves? It would be insanely difficult to do it now. The state has kept promising people that they will take care of everything, only to prove time and again that they are so bad at taking care of anything. Also it's impossible to instill any sense of unity through patriotism because after years of experiments with globalism, people have lost any sense of national identity. Long story short, there seems to be no way out. It's easy to say "I want the NHS functioning, trains running, crime rates down, etc" It's hard to say how to do it I mean what a load of Thatcherite nonsense Great argument. Thoroughly loved it
Stating your opinion as fact will garner a more uncouth response in people. "If you really had "facts", you would be arguing with that instead of lame replies like that | |||
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