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"They got it massively wrong, it's possible to make a program inclusive without being preaching and patronising. Last episode I watched I only managed about 15mins. They forgot it was supposed to be a Sci-Fi show about a time and space travelling being from a distance planet not a program to brainwash people." Very good point. The scripts have suffered badly due to the politics. | |||
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"The new ultra woke Dr Who has experienced a record ratings loss and the current Dr will reportedly not continue in further series. Who would be a good non woke actor to revive the franchise? Is Jeremy Clarkson too old ? Would Boris Johnson not be suitability eccentric for the role?" William Hartnell was 65 when he did his last stint as the Doctor, the same age as Jeremy Clarkson today. Doctor Who has always been woke. There are plenty of stories about aliens that seem bad, but are in fact just misunderstood. And of course the Doctor never used lethal weapons, preferring to come to some agreement with his foe. The problem with modern Doctor Who is that Russel T Davies has forgotten to do storylines, and instead insists on having prominent LGBTQ characters in every episode, with the focus on the emotions and the moral lessons. | |||
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"Always find it odd that people can be against ‘woke’ How can you be against being socially aware and progressive." It depends on what you think "woke" means. If it means being nice to others and accepting of differences, then I don't think many people are against that. If it means that only one way of thinking is allowed, with no tolerance for alternative views, quite a lot of people are against it. | |||
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"Always find it odd that people can be against ‘woke’ How can you be against being socially aware and progressive. I’m pretty sure swinging is progressive " Woke doesn't mean those things though. It's come to mean a very narrow minded and intolerant left wing ideology. | |||
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"The new ultra woke Dr Who has experienced a record ratings loss and the current Dr will reportedly not continue in further series. Who would be a good non woke actor to revive the franchise? Is Jeremy Clarkson too old ? Would Boris Johnson not be suitability eccentric for the role?" I'm not sure the tardis runs on fossil fuels, that would rule out Clarkson. If you want full non woke, JK Rowling is the only choice. | |||
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"The new ultra woke Dr Who has experienced a record ratings loss and the current Dr will reportedly not continue in further series. Who would be a good non woke actor to revive the franchise? Is Jeremy Clarkson too old ? Would Boris Johnson not be suitability eccentric for the role? I'm not sure the tardis runs on fossil fuels, that would rule out Clarkson. If you want full non woke, JK Rowling is the only choice." She’s plenty woke. Just not woke enough for extremist radicals on the left, who are the first to turn on anyone who doesn’t toe the line 100% of the time on 100% of the issues/topics. Isn’t it funny how the crowd who are supposedly all about tolerance and inclusion are actually the most intolerant to any thought or belief outside of theirs? | |||
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"Always find it odd that people can be against ‘woke’ How can you be against being socially aware and progressive. I’m pretty sure swinging is progressive Woke doesn't mean those things though. It's come to mean a very narrow minded and intolerant left wing ideology." __________________________ ..but that isn't what it means though, that definition has been adopted by an intolerant right wing ideology. | |||
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"The new ultra woke Dr Who has experienced a record ratings loss and the current Dr will reportedly not continue in further series. Who would be a good non woke actor to revive the franchise? Is Jeremy Clarkson too old ? Would Boris Johnson not be suitability eccentric for the role? I'm not sure the tardis runs on fossil fuels, that would rule out Clarkson. If you want full non woke, JK Rowling is the only choice. She’s plenty woke. Just not woke enough for extremist radicals on the left, who are the first to turn on anyone who doesn’t toe the line 100% of the time on 100% of the issues/topics. Isn’t it funny how the crowd who are supposedly all about tolerance and inclusion are actually the most intolerant to any thought or belief outside of theirs?" _______________________ Are the right wing crowd not all about tolerance and inclusivity?  | |||
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"Always find it odd that people can be against ‘woke’ How can you be against being socially aware and progressive. I’m pretty sure swinging is progressive Woke doesn't mean those things though. It's come to mean a very narrow minded and intolerant left wing ideology." Let’s not start the ‘what does woke mean’ discussion again. You’re demonstrating that it’s means whatever the user thinks it means. | |||
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"Sacha Baron Cohen, he was flying around like an eccentric madmantimebandit in Alice In Wonderland. Or Jeff Goldblum he does great character acting. Mike Myers would do a good job. Or Dara `O Briain and he loves his astronomy. AI John Pertwee back it would be a first, in some retro episodes it would be a total mind fuck. " All fantastic choices! 👏 | |||
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"Always find it odd that people can be against ‘woke’ How can you be against being socially aware and progressive. I’m pretty sure swinging is progressive Woke doesn't mean those things though. It's come to mean a very narrow minded and intolerant left wing ideology. __________________________ ..but that isn't what it means though, that definition has been adopted by an intolerant right wing ideology." No, that is now the most widely used and accepted definition. | |||
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"Always find it odd that people can be against ‘woke’ How can you be against being socially aware and progressive." "It's come to mean a very narrow minded and intolerant left wing ideology." "..but that isn't what it means though, that definition has been adopted by an intolerant right wing ideology." Words mean whatever we use them to mean. The work 'sick' used to mean 'unwell, diseased', as in "Britain was the sick man of Europe". Now it means 'great, wonderful', as in "Those dance moves are sick, man". If more people are using 'woke' to mean 'preaching acceptance whilst being intolerant of any other opinion', then that's what the word means. | |||
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"Always find it odd that people can be against ‘woke’ How can you be against being socially aware and progressive. " Men claiming to be woman protesting outside a woman’s public toilet and trying to stop women from using it. LGBT protesting for the rights of people who think all LGBT people should be murdered and see nothing wrong with it. Smashing up an innocent persons Tesla because you don’t like the person who owns the company that built the car. Flying around the world protesting against air travel Driving 300 miles in your brand new diesel guzzling Range Rover Sport to stop people who can barely afford their rent from getting to work, in the name of Stop Oil Mustering public opinion to get comedians “cancelled” because YOU don’t like a joke they told. Agreeing with non custodial sentences for child rapists while advocating that anyone who says anything on social media you don’t like should go to jail for 3 years Agreeing that Starmer needs to cut benefit spending while claiming PIP because you feel a little anxious about getting a job. These are pretty woke. And you can’t understand why some people might disagree with these points of view? | |||
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"This isn’t my interpretation of woke. But think this whole conversation has proven that there is no agreed upon definition. I’ll go with the positive meaning of being socially aware, progressive and caring about human rights, racism, climate change, gender equality etc. " I and lot of other people are aware of what’s going on in society, care about human rights, are not racist and don’t agree with racism, are concerned about climate change and very much in favour of women’s equality, and men’s equality for that matter. But we’d never do any of the things that I listed. Wanting to protect human rights isn’t woke, that’s perfectly normal behaviour for over 99% of the population. Same for eliminating racism, sexual equality, concern for the environment. This is the really offensive part. Implying that unless you’re “woke” you are some nazi, racist, ultra far right bigot. I’m not saying you have said that but it is said and frequently implied. And that’s the difference. I am all in favour of trans people being able to call themselves whatever they want, dress how they want, act how they want etc. but voice an opinion that you agree with the Supreme Court ruling and the woke brigade start calling you a transphobic, far right Nazi. So people are not allowed an opinion because it’s not the same as yours? Despite the fact that I agree with nearly all of what the LGBT movement stands for, I’m a homophobic, transphobic etc etc etc | |||
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"This isn’t my interpretation of woke. But think this whole conversation has proven that there is no agreed upon definition. I’ll go with the positive meaning of being socially aware, progressive and caring about human rights, racism, climate change, gender equality etc. I and lot of other people are aware of what’s going on in society, care about human rights, are not racist and don’t agree with racism, are concerned about climate change and very much in favour of women’s equality, and men’s equality for that matter. But we’d never do any of the things that I listed. Wanting to protect human rights isn’t woke, that’s perfectly normal behaviour for over 99% of the population. Same for eliminating racism, sexual equality, concern for the environment. This is the really offensive part. Implying that unless you’re “woke” you are some nazi, racist, ultra far right bigot. I’m not saying you have said that but it is said and frequently implied. And that’s the difference. I am all in favour of trans people being able to call themselves whatever they want, dress how they want, act how they want etc. but voice an opinion that you agree with the Supreme Court ruling and the woke brigade start calling you a transphobic, far right Nazi. So people are not allowed an opinion because it’s not the same as yours? Despite the fact that I agree with nearly all of what the LGBT movement stands for, I’m a homophobic, transphobic etc etc etc" Funnily enough as someone who is centre left on some issues I've also had abuse on here by DM about the supreme court ruling.. cant disagree with your post, there's always been those on the edge who are extremely vocal and will take direct action on either 'side' of the pendulum.. What's happened is that woke has been an invented word to attack others as have other words aimed the other way .. Most people are too busy or lazy to look at the issues that the other side have and reach common understanding or even common ground, we've become too tribal (influenced and steered intentionally by those who thrive on division) and it's only for their benefit not 'ours'.. Hey ho.. | |||
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"This isn’t my interpretation of woke. But think this whole conversation has proven that there is no agreed upon definition. I’ll go with the positive meaning of being socially aware, progressive and caring about human rights, racism, climate change, gender equality etc. I and lot of other people are aware of what’s going on in society, care about human rights, are not racist and don’t agree with racism, are concerned about climate change and very much in favour of women’s equality, and men’s equality for that matter. But we’d never do any of the things that I listed. Wanting to protect human rights isn’t woke, that’s perfectly normal behaviour for over 99% of the population. Same for eliminating racism, sexual equality, concern for the environment. This is the really offensive part. Implying that unless you’re “woke” you are some nazi, racist, ultra far right bigot. I’m not saying you have said that but it is said and frequently implied. And that’s the difference. I am all in favour of trans people being able to call themselves whatever they want, dress how they want, act how they want etc. but voice an opinion that you agree with the Supreme Court ruling and the woke brigade start calling you a transphobic, far right Nazi. So people are not allowed an opinion because it’s not the same as yours? Despite the fact that I agree with nearly all of what the LGBT movement stands for, I’m a homophobic, transphobic etc etc etc Funnily enough as someone who is centre left on some issues I've also had abuse on here by DM about the supreme court ruling.. cant disagree with your post, there's always been those on the edge who are extremely vocal and will take direct action on either 'side' of the pendulum.. What's happened is that woke has been an invented word to attack others as have other words aimed the other way .. Most people are too busy or lazy to look at the issues that the other side have and reach common understanding or even common ground, we've become too tribal (influenced and steered intentionally by those who thrive on division) and it's only for their benefit not 'ours'.. Hey ho.." The essence of 'woke' is 'we're awake/aware of these issues but you are asleep/unaware; we are the good people, you are the bad people'. It is meant to be tribal and divisive. | |||
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"This isn’t my interpretation of woke. But think this whole conversation has proven that there is no agreed upon definition. I’ll go with the positive meaning of being socially aware, progressive and caring about human rights, racism, climate change, gender equality etc. I and lot of other people are aware of what’s going on in society, care about human rights, are not racist and don’t agree with racism, are concerned about climate change and very much in favour of women’s equality, and men’s equality for that matter. But we’d never do any of the things that I listed. Wanting to protect human rights isn’t woke, that’s perfectly normal behaviour for over 99% of the population. Same for eliminating racism, sexual equality, concern for the environment. This is the really offensive part. Implying that unless you’re “woke” you are some nazi, racist, ultra far right bigot. I’m not saying you have said that but it is said and frequently implied. And that’s the difference. I am all in favour of trans people being able to call themselves whatever they want, dress how they want, act how they want etc. but voice an opinion that you agree with the Supreme Court ruling and the woke brigade start calling you a transphobic, far right Nazi. So people are not allowed an opinion because it’s not the same as yours? Despite the fact that I agree with nearly all of what the LGBT movement stands for, I’m a homophobic, transphobic etc etc etc Funnily enough as someone who is centre left on some issues I've also had abuse on here by DM about the supreme court ruling.. cant disagree with your post, there's always been those on the edge who are extremely vocal and will take direct action on either 'side' of the pendulum.. What's happened is that woke has been an invented word to attack others as have other words aimed the other way .. Most people are too busy or lazy to look at the issues that the other side have and reach common understanding or even common ground, we've become too tribal (influenced and steered intentionally by those who thrive on division) and it's only for their benefit not 'ours'.. Hey ho.. The essence of 'woke' is 'we're awake/aware of these issues but you are asleep/unaware; we are the good people, you are the bad people'. It is meant to be tribal and divisive." Oh I know it is..    | |||
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"It’s hilarious when I debate LGBT stuff on facebook because nobody knows I’m bi. Any deviation from their narrative and you get called all the names under the sun. If I point out that they don’t know if I’m bi or not, I’m then accused of potential self loathing. I hate myself lol The extremes on both sides of any discussion can of course be very vocal and entrenched. But I really do take exception to being told by people who’ve never met me, that I don’t care about other people’s rights and I’m not entitled to an opinion. " At least one gay writer and one gay actor were fired from Dr Who by Russel Davies because of their views on the trans issue. Its always been the case that far left politics is akin to a religious cult. | |||
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"It’s hilarious when I debate LGBT stuff on facebook because nobody knows I’m bi. Any deviation from their narrative and you get called all the names under the sun. If I point out that they don’t know if I’m bi or not, I’m then accused of potential self loathing. I hate myself lol The extremes on both sides of any discussion can of course be very vocal and entrenched. But I really do take exception to being told by people who’ve never met me, that I don’t care about other people’s rights and I’m not entitled to an opinion. At least one gay writer and one gay actor were fired from Dr Who by Russel Davies because of their views on the trans issue. Its always been the case that far left politics is akin to a religious cult." And the far right are just so cuddly and welcoming to all.. 
Extremes are simply just that and history sadly shows us both can be as bad as the other..
If..we choose to look objectively at each.. | |||
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"It’s hilarious when I debate LGBT stuff on facebook because nobody knows I’m bi. Any deviation from their narrative and you get called all the names under the sun. If I point out that they don’t know if I’m bi or not, I’m then accused of potential self loathing. I hate myself lol The extremes on both sides of any discussion can of course be very vocal and entrenched. But I really do take exception to being told by people who’ve never met me, that I don’t care about other people’s rights and I’m not entitled to an opinion. At least one gay writer and one gay actor were fired from Dr Who by Russel Davies because of their views on the trans issue. Its always been the case that far left politics is akin to a religious cult. And the far right are just so cuddly and welcoming to all..
Extremes are simply just that and history sadly shows us both can be as bad as the other..
If..we choose to look objectively at each.."Well it was just claimed that all the woke stuff I listed isn’t woke. So how about you post a definition of what is “far right” and we can debate that? Or better yet, just deny it lol | |||
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"It’s hilarious when I debate LGBT stuff on facebook because nobody knows I’m bi. Any deviation from their narrative and you get called all the names under the sun. If I point out that they don’t know if I’m bi or not, I’m then accused of potential self loathing. I hate myself lol The extremes on both sides of any discussion can of course be very vocal and entrenched. But I really do take exception to being told by people who’ve never met me, that I don’t care about other people’s rights and I’m not entitled to an opinion. At least one gay writer and one gay actor were fired from Dr Who by Russel Davies because of their views on the trans issue. Its always been the case that far left politics is akin to a religious cult. And the far right are just so cuddly and welcoming to all..
Extremes are simply just that and history sadly shows us both can be as bad as the other..
If..we choose to look objectively at each..
Well it was just claimed that all the woke stuff I listed isn’t woke. So how about you post a definition of what is “far right” and we can debate that? Or better yet, just deny it lol"Which wasn't myself.. 
If you want a definition to inform you what they are then feel free to go look, there's more than enough from those who deal with such things such as the National Crime Agency and anti terrorism agencies and court papers..
Some of which equally applies to others being they extremists using other reasons to be cunts..
You want me to deny the far right exists?
Have I read that correctly?
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"It’s hilarious when I debate LGBT stuff on facebook because nobody knows I’m bi. Any deviation from their narrative and you get called all the names under the sun. If I point out that they don’t know if I’m bi or not, I’m then accused of potential self loathing. I hate myself lol The extremes on both sides of any discussion can of course be very vocal and entrenched. But I really do take exception to being told by people who’ve never met me, that I don’t care about other people’s rights and I’m not entitled to an opinion. At least one gay writer and one gay actor were fired from Dr Who by Russel Davies because of their views on the trans issue. Its always been the case that far left politics is akin to a religious cult. And the far right are just so cuddly and welcoming to all..
Extremes are simply just that and history sadly shows us both can be as bad as the other..
If..we choose to look objectively at each..
Well it was just claimed that all the woke stuff I listed isn’t woke. So how about you post a definition of what is “far right” and we can debate that? Or better yet, just deny it lol
Which wasn't myself..
If you want a definition to inform you what they are then feel free to go look, there's more than enough from those who deal with such things such as the National Crime Agency and anti terrorism agencies and court papers..
Some of which equally applies to others being they extremists using other reasons to be cunts..
You want me to deny the far right exists?
Have I read that correctly?
"No you didn’t read correctly. And I didn’t say you’d said it. But as you’d mentioned “far right” I wondered if you would define what you think far right is. | |||
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"It’s hilarious when I debate LGBT stuff on facebook because nobody knows I’m bi. Any deviation from their narrative and you get called all the names under the sun. If I point out that they don’t know if I’m bi or not, I’m then accused of potential self loathing. I hate myself lol The extremes on both sides of any discussion can of course be very vocal and entrenched. But I really do take exception to being told by people who’ve never met me, that I don’t care about other people’s rights and I’m not entitled to an opinion. At least one gay writer and one gay actor were fired from Dr Who by Russel Davies because of their views on the trans issue. Its always been the case that far left politics is akin to a religious cult. And the far right are just so cuddly and welcoming to all..
Extremes are simply just that and history sadly shows us both can be as bad as the other..
If..we choose to look objectively at each..
Well it was just claimed that all the woke stuff I listed isn’t woke. So how about you post a definition of what is “far right” and we can debate that? Or better yet, just deny it lol
Which wasn't myself..
If you want a definition to inform you what they are then feel free to go look, there's more than enough from those who deal with such things such as the National Crime Agency and anti terrorism agencies and court papers..
Some of which equally applies to others being they extremists using other reasons to be cunts..
You want me to deny the far right exists?
Have I read that correctly?
No you didn’t read correctly. And I didn’t say you’d said it. But as you’d mentioned “far right” I wondered if you would define what you think far right is. "I've met some, I've also seen what they can do in extreme cases and I've met some at the other end of the pendulum but I'll refer you to my above answer where I'm sure you'll be well educated.. | |||
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"It’s hilarious when I debate LGBT stuff on facebook because nobody knows I’m bi. Any deviation from their narrative and you get called all the names under the sun. If I point out that they don’t know if I’m bi or not, I’m then accused of potential self loathing. I hate myself lol The extremes on both sides of any discussion can of course be very vocal and entrenched. But I really do take exception to being told by people who’ve never met me, that I don’t care about other people’s rights and I’m not entitled to an opinion. At least one gay writer and one gay actor were fired from Dr Who by Russel Davies because of their views on the trans issue. Its always been the case that far left politics is akin to a religious cult. And the far right are just so cuddly and welcoming to all..
Extremes are simply just that and history sadly shows us both can be as bad as the other..
If..we choose to look objectively at each..
Well it was just claimed that all the woke stuff I listed isn’t woke. So how about you post a definition of what is “far right” and we can debate that? Or better yet, just deny it lol
Which wasn't myself..
If you want a definition to inform you what they are then feel free to go look, there's more than enough from those who deal with such things such as the National Crime Agency and anti terrorism agencies and court papers..
Some of which equally applies to others being they extremists using other reasons to be cunts..
You want me to deny the far right exists?
Have I read that correctly?
No you didn’t read correctly. And I didn’t say you’d said it. But as you’d mentioned “far right” I wondered if you would define what you think far right is.
I've met some, I've also seen what they can do in extreme cases and I've met some at the other end of the pendulum but I'll refer you to my above answer where I'm sure you'll be well educated.. "I wanted to hear your opinion as you’d used the term. Many use the term but have no idea when it means. So can you tell me what you mean when you used the term or not? I’m guessing not To me, the right wing of politics has nothing to do with racism but I see people interchange the terms “far right” and “racist” all the time. Politics in general is how we govern the people with laws, spend and raise taxes and interact with other countries. I don’t think any mainstream politician since Enoch Powell has aired potential policy based on skin colour or race, in fact I believe it would be illegal to do so. | |||
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"It’s hilarious when I debate LGBT stuff on facebook because nobody knows I’m bi. Any deviation from their narrative and you get called all the names under the sun. If I point out that they don’t know if I’m bi or not, I’m then accused of potential self loathing. I hate myself lol The extremes on both sides of any discussion can of course be very vocal and entrenched. But I really do take exception to being told by people who’ve never met me, that I don’t care about other people’s rights and I’m not entitled to an opinion. At least one gay writer and one gay actor were fired from Dr Who by Russel Davies because of their views on the trans issue. Its always been the case that far left politics is akin to a religious cult. And the far right are just so cuddly and welcoming to all..
Extremes are simply just that and history sadly shows us both can be as bad as the other..
If..we choose to look objectively at each..
Well it was just claimed that all the woke stuff I listed isn’t woke. So how about you post a definition of what is “far right” and we can debate that? Or better yet, just deny it lol
Which wasn't myself..
If you want a definition to inform you what they are then feel free to go look, there's more than enough from those who deal with such things such as the National Crime Agency and anti terrorism agencies and court papers..
Some of which equally applies to others being they extremists using other reasons to be cunts..
You want me to deny the far right exists?
Have I read that correctly?
No you didn’t read correctly. And I didn’t say you’d said it. But as you’d mentioned “far right” I wondered if you would define what you think far right is.
I've met some, I've also seen what they can do in extreme cases and I've met some at the other end of the pendulum but I'll refer you to my above answer where I'm sure you'll be well educated..
I wanted to hear your opinion as you’d used the term. Many use the term but have no idea when it means. So can you tell me what you mean when you used the term or not? I’m guessing not
To me, the right wing of politics has nothing to do with racism but I see people interchange the terms “far right” and “racist” all the time.
Politics in general is how we govern the people with laws, spend and raise taxes and interact with other countries. I don’t think any mainstream politician since Enoch Powell has aired potential policy based on skin colour or race, in fact I believe it would be illegal to do so.
"I can tell you from my own experience what I believe are some of the types of people who are far right, of course I can however that's just my opinion so I'll keep it to myself ta.. I don't think I've ever said that it's only right wing types are racists so I'll leave you to your own opinion on that.. Especially given you fail to see or choose to excuse the links between the far right and racism which are obvious.. | |||
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"I don't think I've ever said that it's only right wing types are racists so I'll leave you to your own opinion on that.. Especially given you fail to see or choose to excuse the links between the far right and racism which are obvious.." What links? You say both left and right can be racist but then claim there are direct links between racism and right wing politics. Where? Just calling someone a racist doesn’t make it true. Just because one right wing politician might be racist, doesn’t mean they all are. No more than all left wing politicians are. Anyone of any political persuasion, any skin colour, any race, any nationality, any religion, any age can be racist. Or not. Right wing politics has nothing to do with racism. Neither does “far right”. The far left use that as a tool to try to prevent people from voting for a right wing party. “Vote reform and you’re racist” you hear them say. Just triggering more division and more hatred. | |||
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"I don't think I've ever said that it's only right wing types are racists so I'll leave you to your own opinion on that.. Especially given you fail to see or choose to excuse the links between the far right and racism which are obvious.. What links? You say both left and right can be racist but then claim there are direct links between racism and right wing politics. Where? Just calling someone a racist doesn’t make it true. Just because one right wing politician might be racist, doesn’t mean they all are. No more than all left wing politicians are. Anyone of any political persuasion, any skin colour, any race, any nationality, any religion, any age can be racist. Or not. Right wing politics has nothing to do with racism. Neither does “far right”. " So far right has no association with racism? You’re sure about that? | |||
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"I don't think I've ever said that it's only right wing types are racists so I'll leave you to your own opinion on that.. Especially given you fail to see or choose to excuse the links between the far right and racism which are obvious.. What links? You say both left and right can be racist but then claim there are direct links between racism and right wing politics. Where? Just calling someone a racist doesn’t make it true. Just because one right wing politician might be racist, doesn’t mean they all are. No more than all left wing politicians are. Anyone of any political persuasion, any skin colour, any race, any nationality, any religion, any age can be racist. Or not. Right wing politics has nothing to do with racism. Neither does “far right”. The far left use that as a tool to try to prevent people from voting for a right wing party. “Vote reform and you’re racist” you hear them say. Just triggering more division and more hatred. " People of no political leaning can be racist, that can't be a surprise to anyone surely? The direct links between the far right and racism are well documented, again go and look at the facts NF, BNP, NA all are/were far right and all have people associated who have been convicted of racism.. No one but you is saying that just because one is then the rest are whatever side they are on.. You seem to be arguing with yourself.. Again I've never said anything about reform and those who might vote etc.. Once again your wrong in saying right wing politics has nothing to do with racism.. | |||
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"The term far right has become a blunt and overused tool often used to discredit mainstream conservatives. In reality, movements that set out to radicalise patriotism or nationalism into violence should be called what they are, fascist, supremacist, or authoritarian, rather than a vague label of far right. " Exactly! Left wing is socialism and far left is communism. Neither are racist by definition. Right wing is capitalism but far right is Nazi? Nazi has nothing to do with capitalism! Nazi is fascist isn’t it? The National Front, EDL etc were branded as far right movements by left wing media and it stuck. They have nothing to do with capitalism or conservative politics. The left want to keep branding everyone to the right of Angela Reynor as racist. This just isn’t true. | |||
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"The term far right has become a blunt and overused tool often used to discredit mainstream conservatives. In reality, movements that set out to radicalise patriotism or nationalism into violence should be called what they are, fascist, supremacist, or authoritarian, rather than a vague label of far right. " No one in history has ever labelled the actions of Stalin, Mao or Pol Pot whose barbarism is up there with the rest of the worst as anything vaguely of the right.. | |||
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"The term far right has become a blunt and overused tool often used to discredit mainstream conservatives. In reality, movements that set out to radicalise patriotism or nationalism into violence should be called what they are, fascist, supremacist, or authoritarian, rather than a vague label of far right. Exactly! Left wing is socialism and far left is communism. Neither are racist by definition. Right wing is capitalism but far right is Nazi? Nazi has nothing to do with capitalism! Nazi is fascist isn’t it? The National Front, EDL etc were branded as far right movements by left wing media and it stuck. They have nothing to do with capitalism or conservative politics. The left want to keep branding everyone to the right of Angela Reynor as racist. This just isn’t true. " The groups you refer to and others before and after them didn't become far right because any media branded them so.. They met the criteria as per the law, recognised by politicians on all sides (the Conservatives have equally with justification proscribed right wing as well as labour when in power).. Their stated aims including white supremacy and others, their goals and their actions fully deserve the correct label of far right extremists .. The Home Secretaries of whatever parties simply have never taken action against the far right because the 'left wing media' (which btw is in the minority in this country) said such and such are racists.. They are and were racists before they were placed on watch lists and some of their members convicted of crimes based upon their twisted beliefs.. | |||
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"The term far right has become a blunt and overused tool often used to discredit mainstream conservatives. In reality, movements that set out to radicalise patriotism or nationalism into violence should be called what they are, fascist, supremacist, or authoritarian, rather than a vague label of far right. No one in history has ever labelled the actions of Stalin, Mao or Pol Pot whose barbarism is up there with the rest of the worst as anything vaguely of the right.. " That’s exactly the point. Stalin, Mao, or Pol Pot are not “far right” because they were communists and authoritarian on the left. So why do we let violent or extremist groups on the other side of the political spectrum to get lumped into a “right wing” bucket? | |||
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"The term far right has become a blunt and overused tool often used to discredit mainstream conservatives. In reality, movements that set out to radicalise patriotism or nationalism into violence should be called what they are, fascist, supremacist, or authoritarian, rather than a vague label of far right. No one in history has ever labelled the actions of Stalin, Mao or Pol Pot whose barbarism is up there with the rest of the worst as anything vaguely of the right.. That’s exactly the point. Stalin, Mao, or Pol Pot are not “far right” because they were communists and authoritarian on the left. So why do we let violent or extremist groups on the other side of the political spectrum to get lumped into a “right wing” bucket?" Tbh I genuinely didn't think they are or have been but that doesn't sound quite right.. By whom and which specific groups? | |||
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"The term far right has become a blunt and overused tool often used to discredit mainstream conservatives. In reality, movements that set out to radicalise patriotism or nationalism into violence should be called what they are, fascist, supremacist, or authoritarian, rather than a vague label of far right. No one in history has ever labelled the actions of Stalin, Mao or Pol Pot whose barbarism is up there with the rest of the worst as anything vaguely of the right.. That’s exactly the point. Stalin, Mao, or Pol Pot are not “far right” because they were communists and authoritarian on the left. So why do we let violent or extremist groups on the other side of the political spectrum to get lumped into a “right wing” bucket? Tbh I genuinely didn't think they are or have been but that doesn't sound quite right.. By whom and which specific groups? " any group that is racist for example. They are racist not right wing and far down the side of it in my opinion. | |||
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"The term far right has become a blunt and overused tool often used to discredit mainstream conservatives. In reality, movements that set out to radicalise patriotism or nationalism into violence should be called what they are, fascist, supremacist, or authoritarian, rather than a vague label of far right. No one in history has ever labelled the actions of Stalin, Mao or Pol Pot whose barbarism is up there with the rest of the worst as anything vaguely of the right.. That’s exactly the point. Stalin, Mao, or Pol Pot are not “far right” because they were communists and authoritarian on the left. So why do we let violent or extremist groups on the other side of the political spectrum to get lumped into a “right wing” bucket? Tbh I genuinely didn't think they are or have been but that doesn't sound quite right.. By whom and which specific groups? any group that is racist for example. They are racist not right wing and far down the side of it in my opinion." Do these groups have names? I'm not saying there aren't far left extremists and that they haven't used violence and terrorism, most of their aims and ideology is largely against the state or global capitalism but such group's who were prominent in the 70s etc look to have largely gone quiet in relation to their actions.. Yes there are far left wing here who will use violence but their target is the far right.. | |||
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"The term far right has become a blunt and overused tool often used to discredit mainstream conservatives. In reality, movements that set out to radicalise patriotism or nationalism into violence should be called what they are, fascist, supremacist, or authoritarian, rather than a vague label of far right. No one in history has ever labelled the actions of Stalin, Mao or Pol Pot whose barbarism is up there with the rest of the worst as anything vaguely of the right.. That’s exactly the point. Stalin, Mao, or Pol Pot are not “far right” because they were communists and authoritarian on the left. So why do we let violent or extremist groups on the other side of the political spectrum to get lumped into a “right wing” bucket? Tbh I genuinely didn't think they are or have been but that doesn't sound quite right.. By whom and which specific groups? any group that is racist for example. They are racist not right wing and far down the side of it in my opinion. Do these groups have names? I'm not saying there aren't far left extremists and that they haven't used violence and terrorism, most of their aims and ideology is largely against the state or global capitalism but such group's who were prominent in the 70s etc look to have largely gone quiet in relation to their actions.. Yes there are far left wing here who will use violence but their target is the far right.." I think the point I'm trying to make and it ties into the other thread, far left or far right softens or even adds legitimacy. Call them terrorists, racist, or whatever but if we drop left and right for these groups it leaves the moderate in that space. | |||
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" any group that is racist for example. They are racist not right wing and far down the side of it in my opinion." The EDL, BNP etc are far right racists. They believe in nationalism, nativism, support for rught wing figures like Wilders, Le Pen etc. It’s ludicrous to pretend they’re not right wing, and just happen to be racist. | |||
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"in reality, movements that set out to radicalise patriotism or nationalism into violence should be called what they are, fascist, supremacist, or authoritarian, rather than a vague label of far right. " You can be authoritarian right, or authoritarian left. Liberal right or liberal left. This is why the political compass is a better indicator of political stance than the spectrum. | |||
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"The term far right has become a blunt and overused tool often used to discredit mainstream conservatives. In reality, movements that set out to radicalise patriotism or nationalism into violence should be called what they are, fascist, supremacist, or authoritarian, rather than a vague label of far right. No one in history has ever labelled the actions of Stalin, Mao or Pol Pot whose barbarism is up there with the rest of the worst as anything vaguely of the right.. That’s exactly the point. Stalin, Mao, or Pol Pot are not “far right” because they were communists and authoritarian on the left. So why do we let violent or extremist groups on the other side of the political spectrum to get lumped into a “right wing” bucket? Tbh I genuinely didn't think they are or have been but that doesn't sound quite right.. By whom and which specific groups? any group that is racist for example. They are racist not right wing and far down the side of it in my opinion. Do these groups have names? I'm not saying there aren't far left extremists and that they haven't used violence and terrorism, most of their aims and ideology is largely against the state or global capitalism but such group's who were prominent in the 70s etc look to have largely gone quiet in relation to their actions.. Yes there are far left wing here who will use violence but their target is the far right.. I think the point I'm trying to make and it ties into the other thread, far left or far right softens or even adds legitimacy. Call them terrorists, racist, or whatever but if we drop left and right for these groups it leaves the moderate in that space. " Not sure I follow, tbh we should call them what they are whatever their reasons or excuses they use.. If they're radical extremists using a religion as that then we do and should call them that.. Ditto left or right.. Moderates don't tend to attack people who are a different colour.. | |||
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"They also complain about the new doctor… They complained about ecclestone… until they didn’t! They complained about tennant… until they didn’t! They complained about Matt smith… until they didn’t! They complained about Jodie…. Until they didn’t! It will be fine….. people are just so quick to complain about everything! " Worth keeping an eye on viewing figures. The silent majority will vote one way or the other. | |||
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"They also complain about the new doctor… They complained about ecclestone… until they didn’t! They complained about tennant… until they didn’t! They complained about Matt smith… until they didn’t! They complained about Jodie…. Until they didn’t! It will be fine….. people are just so quick to complain about everything! Worth keeping an eye on viewing figures. The silent majority will vote one way or the other. " Viewing figured tanked with Jodie and have tanked further with Ncuti. Rumours are that Disnsy, who largely fund the show, are pulling out. | |||
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"I heard a rumour which is being reported over utube that he was sacked, apparently he was booked to go on stage at Eurovision but when he discovered that Israel had entered he didn't turn up, as he or him/he is a Palestine supporter. As for woke my experience is through Marvel, Star Trek, and Star Wars all ruined by gender politics, telling me what I should think now theses Francises are in tatters beyond repair." It was odd that he didn't turn up although I think it's more likely he'd already been told he was getting sacked. | |||
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"I heard a rumour which is being reported over utube that he was sacked, apparently he was booked to go on stage at Eurovision but when he discovered that Israel had entered he didn't turn up, as he or him/he is a Palestine supporter. As for woke my experience is through Marvel, Star Trek, and Star Wars all ruined by gender politics, telling me what I should think now theses Francises are in tatters beyond repair." I agree. So many films and series banging on and on with the same bullshit message. If the message was so great they wouldn’t need to keep on. | |||
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" As for woke my experience is through Marvel, Star Trek, and Star Wars all ruined by gender politics, telling me what I should think now theses Francises are in tatters beyond repair." Star Trek was ‘woke’ in 1966. | |||
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" As for woke my experience is through Marvel, Star Trek, and Star Wars all ruined by gender politics, telling me what I should think now theses Francises are in tatters beyond repair. Star Trek was ‘woke’ in 1966." You know what, I do agree with you but I think the term back then was progressive.  | |||
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"I heard a rumour which is being reported over utube that he was sacked, apparently he was booked to go on stage at Eurovision but when he discovered that Israel had entered he didn't turn up, as he or him/he is a Palestine supporter. As for woke my experience is through Marvel, Star Trek, and Star Wars all ruined by gender politics, telling me what I should think now theses Francises are in tatters beyond repair. I agree. So many films and series banging on and on with the same bullshit message. If the message was so great they wouldn’t need to keep on. " Have you seen the last of us? I played the video game part 1 and 2 part one was soooooogood great story telling by a video game developer, when I played 2 I was so shocked I have yet to complete that game, so I thought the tv series wouldn't do the same they did the same in series two and the rating have fallen through the floor. But it seems that with trump in that sort of thinking is out the door now. Marvel had a recent hit of sorts with thunderbolts I read and up coming productions are going through reshoots to take out the woke so movie fans have hope, the studios lost so much cash they have no choice but to change. go woke..... | |||
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"I heard a rumour which is being reported over utube that he was sacked, apparently he was booked to go on stage at Eurovision but when he discovered that Israel had entered he didn't turn up, as he or him/he is a Palestine supporter. As for woke my experience is through Marvel, Star Trek, and Star Wars all ruined by gender politics, telling me what I should think now theses Francises are in tatters beyond repair. It was odd that he didn't turn up although I think it's more likely he'd already been told he was getting sacked." I have read two sources, an online industry paper which discusses rumours and truths. The other now don't laugh but it was the sun, apparently the headline was doctor who exterminated and both sources agree the last straw was the song contest, disney+ spent a hell of a lot of money to have the rights to show who in the USA exclusively, only to get poor ratings. All you whoinverse fans the doc may be away for a while , but I hope they return as billy piper. | |||
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" As for woke my experience is through Marvel, Star Trek, and Star Wars all ruined by gender politics, telling me what I should think now theses Francises are in tatters beyond repair. Star Trek was ‘woke’ in 1966. You know what, I do agree with you but I think the term back then was progressive. "The difference is, back in the 60s there’s was next to no black people in films or television. And next to nobody talking about some of the issues they broached. Star Trek did something that had never really been done before. And it wasn’t done to rub your nose in it. Now we have real historical figures that were white being played by black actors when doing it the other way would be called racist. Next thing will be a black, gay, trans Henry VIII. But you’ll never have a white Malcom X There’s talk of a female James Bond and a male moneypenny. The characters written by Ian Fleming were reflective of the times and yes that’s a bit of an outdated time. But this is a character that has evolved to some extent, but is a very well established character with a couple of dozen films in the can. If you want to make a film about a female secret agent with a male sidekick, do it. But have the balls to start from scratch, not try to ride on the bond coattails | |||
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" As for woke my experience is through Marvel, Star Trek, and Star Wars all ruined by gender politics, telling me what I should think now theses Francises are in tatters beyond repair. Star Trek was ‘woke’ in 1966. You know what, I do agree with you but I think the term back then was progressive.
The difference is, back in the 60s there’s was next to no black people in films or television. And next to nobody talking about some of the issues they broached. Star Trek did something that had never really been done before. And it wasn’t done to rub your nose in it.
Now we have real historical figures that were white being played by black actors when doing it the other way would be called racist. Next thing will be a black, gay, trans Henry VIII. But you’ll never have a white Malcom X
There’s talk of a female James Bond and a male moneypenny. The characters written by Ian Fleming were reflective of the times and yes that’s a bit of an outdated time. But this is a character that has evolved to some extent, but is a very well established character with a couple of dozen films in the can. If you want to make a film about a female secret agent with a male sidekick, do it. But have the balls to start from scratch, not try to ride on the bond coattails "Here here haw many times have I said to others why change my hero why mess with my Francises. Just do their own. I am a massive Bond fan to the point I have cars books and films, at the end of no time.. I couldn't leave my seat until I read he would return, I have follow any news of bond fearing mega wokness will kill him, when I heard the broccoli's had given Amazon 51% of bond giving them creative control, I knew bond is in trouble. Personally I would rekick bond in the late fifties or 60's but if anyone has read the books they are racists, mansplaining etc but as you say those were the times. There is only Spiderman left, even the silver surfer has gone through a change. but I think times are a changing which may save bond time will tell. | |||
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" As for woke my experience is through Marvel, Star Trek, and Star Wars all ruined by gender politics, telling me what I should think now theses Francises are in tatters beyond repair. Star Trek was ‘woke’ in 1966. You know what, I do agree with you but I think the term back then was progressive.
The difference is, back in the 60s there’s was next to no black people in films or television. And next to nobody talking about some of the issues they broached. Star Trek did something that had never really been done before. And it wasn’t done to rub your nose in it.
Now we have real historical figures that were white being played by black actors when doing it the other way would be called racist. Next thing will be a black, gay, trans Henry VIII. But you’ll never have a white Malcom X
There’s talk of a female James Bond and a male moneypenny. The characters written by Ian Fleming were reflective of the times and yes that’s a bit of an outdated time. But this is a character that has evolved to some extent, but is a very well established character with a couple of dozen films in the can. If you want to make a film about a female secret agent with a male sidekick, do it. But have the balls to start from scratch, not try to ride on the bond coattails
Here here haw many times have I said to others why change my hero why mess with my Francises.
Just do their own.
I am a massive Bond fan to the point I have cars books and films, at the end of no time.. I couldn't leave my seat until I read he would return, I have follow any news of bond fearing mega wokness will kill him, when I heard the broccoli's had given Amazon 51% of bond giving them creative control, I knew bond is in trouble.
Personally I would rekick bond in the late fifties or 60's but if anyone has read the books they are racists, mansplaining etc but as you say those were the times.
There is only Spiderman left, even the silver surfer has gone through a change.
but I think times are a changing which may save bond time will tell."_________________________________________ The producers of Bond have to change/adopt to engage with a continually renewing audience and competitive sector. We tried to engage our (now adult) children in things that fascinated us eg Morecambe & Wise, The Two Ronnies and yes the old Bond films but they preferred things that reflected their own experiences of cultural diversity, gay people, people with disabilities etc that's nothing exceptional to them just their real lives and nothing to do with 'wokeness', they'd think it weird to be exposed to a diet of programmes exclusively starring straight, chisel jawed white men as the consistent protaganists! | |||
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" As for woke my experience is through Marvel, Star Trek, and Star Wars all ruined by gender politics, telling me what I should think now theses Francises are in tatters beyond repair. Star Trek was ‘woke’ in 1966. You know what, I do agree with you but I think the term back then was progressive.
The difference is, back in the 60s there’s was next to no black people in films or television. And next to nobody talking about some of the issues they broached. Star Trek did something that had never really been done before. And it wasn’t done to rub your nose in it.
Now we have real historical figures that were white being played by black actors when doing it the other way would be called racist. Next thing will be a black, gay, trans Henry VIII. But you’ll never have a white Malcom X
There’s talk of a female James Bond and a male moneypenny. The characters written by Ian Fleming were reflective of the times and yes that’s a bit of an outdated time. But this is a character that has evolved to some extent, but is a very well established character with a couple of dozen films in the can. If you want to make a film about a female secret agent with a male sidekick, do it. But have the balls to start from scratch, not try to ride on the bond coattails
Here here haw many times have I said to others why change my hero why mess with my Francises.
Just do their own.
I am a massive Bond fan to the point I have cars books and films, at the end of no time.. I couldn't leave my seat until I read he would return, I have follow any news of bond fearing mega wokness will kill him, when I heard the broccoli's had given Amazon 51% of bond giving them creative control, I knew bond is in trouble.
Personally I would rekick bond in the late fifties or 60's but if anyone has read the books they are racists, mansplaining etc but as you say those were the times.
There is only Spiderman left, even the silver surfer has gone through a change.
but I think times are a changing which may save bond time will tell.
_________________________________________
The producers of Bond have to change/adopt to engage with a continually renewing audience and competitive sector.
We tried to engage our (now adult) children in things that fascinated us eg Morecambe & Wise, The Two Ronnies and yes the old Bond films but they preferred things that reflected their own experiences of cultural diversity, gay people, people with disabilities etc that's nothing exceptional to them just their real lives and nothing to do with 'wokeness', they'd think it weird to be exposed to a diet of programmes exclusively starring straight, chisel jawed white men as the consistent protaganists!"That is exactly what Bond is a chiselled jaw white male. I have seen so many other Bond type programmes that I have enjoyed and as a Bond fan I saw mission fallout which kicked bonds ass, Haywire a female lead spy drama plenty of action she kick every bloke ass who caused her trouble, atomic blonde fantastic film adapted from a hard back comic book, part 2 will be along shortly, female lead original story telling, why mess with an other original instead make their own I say which has been done. Bond still has a built in fan base, Star Wars and marvel said goodbye to their audience long time ago. we will have to wait and see what happens to bond but upset the hardcore fan base who buy the franchise books, models, see the movies in short those who support the Francise.if they lose them bond is over. | |||
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" As for woke my experience is through Marvel, Star Trek, and Star Wars all ruined by gender politics, telling me what I should think now theses Francises are in tatters beyond repair. Star Trek was ‘woke’ in 1966. You know what, I do agree with you but I think the term back then was progressive.
The difference is, back in the 60s there’s was next to no black people in films or television. And next to nobody talking about some of the issues they broached. Star Trek did something that had never really been done before. And it wasn’t done to rub your nose in it.
Now we have real historical figures that were white being played by black actors when doing it the other way would be called racist. Next thing will be a black, gay, trans Henry VIII. But you’ll never have a white Malcom X
There’s talk of a female James Bond and a male moneypenny. The characters written by Ian Fleming were reflective of the times and yes that’s a bit of an outdated time. But this is a character that has evolved to some extent, but is a very well established character with a couple of dozen films in the can. If you want to make a film about a female secret agent with a male sidekick, do it. But have the balls to start from scratch, not try to ride on the bond coattails
Here here haw many times have I said to others why change my hero why mess with my Francises.
Just do their own.
I am a massive Bond fan to the point I have cars books and films, at the end of no time.. I couldn't leave my seat until I read he would return, I have follow any news of bond fearing mega wokness will kill him, when I heard the broccoli's had given Amazon 51% of bond giving them creative control, I knew bond is in trouble.
Personally I would rekick bond in the late fifties or 60's but if anyone has read the books they are racists, mansplaining etc but as you say those were the times.
There is only Spiderman left, even the silver surfer has gone through a change.
but I think times are a changing which may save bond time will tell.
_________________________________________
The producers of Bond have to change/adopt to engage with a continually renewing audience and competitive sector.
We tried to engage our (now adult) children in things that fascinated us eg Morecambe & Wise, The Two Ronnies and yes the old Bond films but they preferred things that reflected their own experiences of cultural diversity, gay people, people with disabilities etc that's nothing exceptional to them just their real lives and nothing to do with 'wokeness', they'd think it weird to be exposed to a diet of programmes exclusively starring straight, chisel jawed white men as the consistent protaganists!
That is exactly what Bond is a chiselled jaw white male.
I have seen so many other Bond type programmes that I have enjoyed and as a Bond fan I saw mission fallout which kicked bonds ass, Haywire a female lead spy drama plenty of action she kick every bloke ass who caused her trouble, atomic blonde fantastic film adapted from a hard back comic book, part 2 will be along shortly, female lead original story telling, why mess with an other original instead make their own I say which has been done.
Bond still has a built in fan base, Star Wars and marvel said goodbye to their audience long time ago. we will have to wait and see what happens to bond but upset the hardcore fan base who buy the franchise books, models, see the movies in short those who support the Francise.if they lose them bond is over."I agree! Bond is Bond and if an audience "really exists" that wants a different type of Bond, studios should create a new character rather than changing an existing character. | |||
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" As for woke my experience is through Marvel, Star Trek, and Star Wars all ruined by gender politics, telling me what I should think now theses Francises are in tatters beyond repair. Star Trek was ‘woke’ in 1966. You know what, I do agree with you but I think the term back then was progressive.
The difference is, back in the 60s there’s was next to no black people in films or television. And next to nobody talking about some of the issues they broached. Star Trek did something that had never really been done before. And it wasn’t done to rub your nose in it.
Now we have real historical figures that were white being played by black actors when doing it the other way would be called racist. Next thing will be a black, gay, trans Henry VIII. But you’ll never have a white Malcom X
There’s talk of a female James Bond and a male moneypenny. The characters written by Ian Fleming were reflective of the times and yes that’s a bit of an outdated time. But this is a character that has evolved to some extent, but is a very well established character with a couple of dozen films in the can. If you want to make a film about a female secret agent with a male sidekick, do it. But have the balls to start from scratch, not try to ride on the bond coattails
Here here haw many times have I said to others why change my hero why mess with my Francises.
Just do their own.
I am a massive Bond fan to the point I have cars books and films, at the end of no time.. I couldn't leave my seat until I read he would return, I have follow any news of bond fearing mega wokness will kill him, when I heard the broccoli's had given Amazon 51% of bond giving them creative control, I knew bond is in trouble.
Personally I would rekick bond in the late fifties or 60's but if anyone has read the books they are racists, mansplaining etc but as you say those were the times.
There is only Spiderman left, even the silver surfer has gone through a change.
but I think times are a changing which may save bond time will tell.
_________________________________________
The producers of Bond have to change/adopt to engage with a continually renewing audience and competitive sector.
We tried to engage our (now adult) children in things that fascinated us eg Morecambe & Wise, The Two Ronnies and yes the old Bond films but they preferred things that reflected their own experiences of cultural diversity, gay people, people with disabilities etc that's nothing exceptional to them just their real lives and nothing to do with 'wokeness', they'd think it weird to be exposed to a diet of programmes exclusively starring straight, chisel jawed white men as the consistent protaganists!
That is exactly what Bond is a chiselled jaw white male.
I have seen so many other Bond type programmes that I have enjoyed and as a Bond fan I saw mission fallout which kicked bonds ass, Haywire a female lead spy drama plenty of action she kick every bloke ass who caused her trouble, atomic blonde fantastic film adapted from a hard back comic book, part 2 will be along shortly, female lead original story telling, why mess with an other original instead make their own I say which has been done.
Bond still has a built in fan base, Star Wars and marvel said goodbye to their audience long time ago. we will have to wait and see what happens to bond but upset the hardcore fan base who buy the franchise books, models, see the movies in short those who support the Francise.if they lose them bond is over.
I agree! Bond is Bond and if an audience "really exists" that wants a different type of Bond, studios should create a new character rather than changing an existing character. " | |||
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" As for woke my experience is through Marvel, Star Trek, and Star Wars all ruined by gender politics, telling me what I should think now theses Francises are in tatters beyond repair. Star Trek was ‘woke’ in 1966. You know what, I do agree with you but I think the term back then was progressive.
The difference is, back in the 60s there’s was next to no black people in films or television. And next to nobody talking about some of the issues they broached. Star Trek did something that had never really been done before. And it wasn’t done to rub your nose in it.
Now we have real historical figures that were white being played by black actors when doing it the other way would be called racist. Next thing will be a black, gay, trans Henry VIII. But you’ll never have a white Malcom X
There’s talk of a female James Bond and a male moneypenny. The characters written by Ian Fleming were reflective of the times and yes that’s a bit of an outdated time. But this is a character that has evolved to some extent, but is a very well established character with a couple of dozen films in the can. If you want to make a film about a female secret agent with a male sidekick, do it. But have the balls to start from scratch, not try to ride on the bond coattails
Here here haw many times have I said to others why change my hero why mess with my Francises.
Just do their own.
I am a massive Bond fan to the point I have cars books and films, at the end of no time.. I couldn't leave my seat until I read he would return, I have follow any news of bond fearing mega wokness will kill him, when I heard the broccoli's had given Amazon 51% of bond giving them creative control, I knew bond is in trouble.
Personally I would rekick bond in the late fifties or 60's but if anyone has read the books they are racists, mansplaining etc but as you say those were the times.
There is only Spiderman left, even the silver surfer has gone through a change.
but I think times are a changing which may save bond time will tell.
_________________________________________
The producers of Bond have to change/adopt to engage with a continually renewing audience and competitive sector.
We tried to engage our (now adult) children in things that fascinated us eg Morecambe & Wise, The Two Ronnies and yes the old Bond films but they preferred things that reflected their own experiences of cultural diversity, gay people, people with disabilities etc that's nothing exceptional to them just their real lives and nothing to do with 'wokeness', they'd think it weird to be exposed to a diet of programmes exclusively starring straight, chisel jawed white men as the consistent protaganists!
That is exactly what Bond is a chiselled jaw white male.
I have seen so many other Bond type programmes that I have enjoyed and as a Bond fan I saw mission fallout which kicked bonds ass, Haywire a female lead spy drama plenty of action she kick every bloke ass who caused her trouble, atomic blonde fantastic film adapted from a hard back comic book, part 2 will be along shortly, female lead original story telling, why mess with an other original instead make their own I say which has been done.
Bond still has a built in fan base, Star Wars and marvel said goodbye to their audience long time ago. we will have to wait and see what happens to bond but upset the hardcore fan base who buy the franchise books, models, see the movies in short those who support the Francise.if they lose them bond is over."_______________________________________________________________ Bond is a character of fiction, created by a writer who died decades ago, should continuation of the films have died with him? The franchise owners have only commercial interests as motivation, 'wokeness' doesn't come into it. In the 60's they had a field day, much less so now due to competition and Bond remains 'the straight, chisel jawed white male, so little has actually changed. Interestingly they cast Judy Dench to replace M, previously played by a white male and few would argue she wasn't a success in the role, in fact new audiences wouldn't know any different and die hard fans like you and I would watch anyway. | |||
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" As for woke my experience is through Marvel, Star Trek, and Star Wars all ruined by gender politics, telling me what I should think now theses Francises are in tatters beyond repair. Star Trek was ‘woke’ in 1966. You know what, I do agree with you but I think the term back then was progressive.
The difference is, back in the 60s there’s was next to no black people in films or television. And next to nobody talking about some of the issues they broached. Star Trek did something that had never really been done before. And it wasn’t done to rub your nose in it.
Now we have real historical figures that were white being played by black actors when doing it the other way would be called racist. Next thing will be a black, gay, trans Henry VIII. But you’ll never have a white Malcom X
There’s talk of a female James Bond and a male moneypenny. The characters written by Ian Fleming were reflective of the times and yes that’s a bit of an outdated time. But this is a character that has evolved to some extent, but is a very well established character with a couple of dozen films in the can. If you want to make a film about a female secret agent with a male sidekick, do it. But have the balls to start from scratch, not try to ride on the bond coattails
Here here haw many times have I said to others why change my hero why mess with my Francises.
Just do their own.
I am a massive Bond fan to the point I have cars books and films, at the end of no time.. I couldn't leave my seat until I read he would return, I have follow any news of bond fearing mega wokness will kill him, when I heard the broccoli's had given Amazon 51% of bond giving them creative control, I knew bond is in trouble.
Personally I would rekick bond in the late fifties or 60's but if anyone has read the books they are racists, mansplaining etc but as you say those were the times.
There is only Spiderman left, even the silver surfer has gone through a change.
but I think times are a changing which may save bond time will tell.
_________________________________________
The producers of Bond have to change/adopt to engage with a continually renewing audience and competitive sector.
We tried to engage our (now adult) children in things that fascinated us eg Morecambe & Wise, The Two Ronnies and yes the old Bond films but they preferred things that reflected their own experiences of cultural diversity, gay people, people with disabilities etc that's nothing exceptional to them just their real lives and nothing to do with 'wokeness', they'd think it weird to be exposed to a diet of programmes exclusively starring straight, chisel jawed white men as the consistent protaganists!
That is exactly what Bond is a chiselled jaw white male.
I have seen so many other Bond type programmes that I have enjoyed and as a Bond fan I saw mission fallout which kicked bonds ass, Haywire a female lead spy drama plenty of action she kick every bloke ass who caused her trouble, atomic blonde fantastic film adapted from a hard back comic book, part 2 will be along shortly, female lead original story telling, why mess with an other original instead make their own I say which has been done.
Bond still has a built in fan base, Star Wars and marvel said goodbye to their audience long time ago. we will have to wait and see what happens to bond but upset the hardcore fan base who buy the franchise books, models, see the movies in short those who support the Francise.if they lose them bond is over.
I agree! Bond is Bond and if an audience "really exists" that wants a different type of Bond, studios should create a new character rather than changing an existing character. "It's the bottom line $ that drives them. If there's more profit in a rehash, rather than complete new works, they'll probably choose to rejig, as they've got less education to do, as the brand exists. | |||
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" As for woke my experience is through Marvel, Star Trek, and Star Wars all ruined by gender politics, telling me what I should think now theses Francises are in tatters beyond repair. Star Trek was ‘woke’ in 1966. You know what, I do agree with you but I think the term back then was progressive.
The difference is, back in the 60s there’s was next to no black people in films or television. And next to nobody talking about some of the issues they broached. Star Trek did something that had never really been done before. And it wasn’t done to rub your nose in it.
Now we have real historical figures that were white being played by black actors when doing it the other way would be called racist. Next thing will be a black, gay, trans Henry VIII. But you’ll never have a white Malcom X
There’s talk of a female James Bond and a male moneypenny. The characters written by Ian Fleming were reflective of the times and yes that’s a bit of an outdated time. But this is a character that has evolved to some extent, but is a very well established character with a couple of dozen films in the can. If you want to make a film about a female secret agent with a male sidekick, do it. But have the balls to start from scratch, not try to ride on the bond coattails
Here here haw many times have I said to others why change my hero why mess with my Francises.
Just do their own.
I am a massive Bond fan to the point I have cars books and films, at the end of no time.. I couldn't leave my seat until I read he would return, I have follow any news of bond fearing mega wokness will kill him, when I heard the broccoli's had given Amazon 51% of bond giving them creative control, I knew bond is in trouble.
Personally I would rekick bond in the late fifties or 60's but if anyone has read the books they are racists, mansplaining etc but as you say those were the times.
There is only Spiderman left, even the silver surfer has gone through a change.
but I think times are a changing which may save bond time will tell.
_________________________________________
The producers of Bond have to change/adopt to engage with a continually renewing audience and competitive sector.
We tried to engage our (now adult) children in things that fascinated us eg Morecambe & Wise, The Two Ronnies and yes the old Bond films but they preferred things that reflected their own experiences of cultural diversity, gay people, people with disabilities etc that's nothing exceptional to them just their real lives and nothing to do with 'wokeness', they'd think it weird to be exposed to a diet of programmes exclusively starring straight, chisel jawed white men as the consistent protaganists!
That is exactly what Bond is a chiselled jaw white male.
I have seen so many other Bond type programmes that I have enjoyed and as a Bond fan I saw mission fallout which kicked bonds ass, Haywire a female lead spy drama plenty of action she kick every bloke ass who caused her trouble, atomic blonde fantastic film adapted from a hard back comic book, part 2 will be along shortly, female lead original story telling, why mess with an other original instead make their own I say which has been done.
Bond still has a built in fan base, Star Wars and marvel said goodbye to their audience long time ago. we will have to wait and see what happens to bond but upset the hardcore fan base who buy the franchise books, models, see the movies in short those who support the Francise.if they lose them bond is over.
_______________________________________________________________
Bond is a character of fiction, created by a writer who died decades ago, should continuation of the films have died with him? The franchise owners have only commercial interests as motivation, 'wokeness' doesn't come into it. In the 60's they had a field day, much less so now due to competition and Bond remains 'the straight, chisel jawed white male, so little has actually changed.
Interestingly they cast Judy Dench to replace M, previously played by a white male and few would argue she wasn't a success in the role, in fact new audiences wouldn't know any different and die hard fans like you and I would watch anyway."Judy Dench was cast in no small part because of Stella Rimmington becoming the head of MI5. And yes she played a blinder, brilliant actress. A wheelchair bound, black, transgender lesbian? Get it all over in one hit? And when a black, wheelchair bound, trans lesbian invents a machine that converts sand into fuel at next to no cost and the only by exhaust product is sand, we can have a white, musculebound, heterosexual man play them in the movie? Ok? I would have no issue with a black male playing the role but bond is THE character in a bond film. He’s a bloke. If you’re gonna change his character it’s not a bond film. | |||
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" As for woke my experience is through Marvel, Star Trek, and Star Wars all ruined by gender politics, telling me what I should think now theses Francises are in tatters beyond repair. Star Trek was ‘woke’ in 1966. You know what, I do agree with you but I think the term back then was progressive.
The difference is, back in the 60s there’s was next to no black people in films or television. And next to nobody talking about some of the issues they broached. Star Trek did something that had never really been done before. And it wasn’t done to rub your nose in it.
Now we have real historical figures that were white being played by black actors when doing it the other way would be called racist. Next thing will be a black, gay, trans Henry VIII. But you’ll never have a white Malcom X
There’s talk of a female James Bond and a male moneypenny. The characters written by Ian Fleming were reflective of the times and yes that’s a bit of an outdated time. But this is a character that has evolved to some extent, but is a very well established character with a couple of dozen films in the can. If you want to make a film about a female secret agent with a male sidekick, do it. But have the balls to start from scratch, not try to ride on the bond coattails
Here here haw many times have I said to others why change my hero why mess with my Francises.
Just do their own.
I am a massive Bond fan to the point I have cars books and films, at the end of no time.. I couldn't leave my seat until I read he would return, I have follow any news of bond fearing mega wokness will kill him, when I heard the broccoli's had given Amazon 51% of bond giving them creative control, I knew bond is in trouble.
Personally I would rekick bond in the late fifties or 60's but if anyone has read the books they are racists, mansplaining etc but as you say those were the times.
There is only Spiderman left, even the silver surfer has gone through a change.
but I think times are a changing which may save bond time will tell.
_________________________________________
The producers of Bond have to change/adopt to engage with a continually renewing audience and competitive sector.
We tried to engage our (now adult) children in things that fascinated us eg Morecambe & Wise, The Two Ronnies and yes the old Bond films but they preferred things that reflected their own experiences of cultural diversity, gay people, people with disabilities etc that's nothing exceptional to them just their real lives and nothing to do with 'wokeness', they'd think it weird to be exposed to a diet of programmes exclusively starring straight, chisel jawed white men as the consistent protaganists!
That is exactly what Bond is a chiselled jaw white male.
I have seen so many other Bond type programmes that I have enjoyed and as a Bond fan I saw mission fallout which kicked bonds ass, Haywire a female lead spy drama plenty of action she kick every bloke ass who caused her trouble, atomic blonde fantastic film adapted from a hard back comic book, part 2 will be along shortly, female lead original story telling, why mess with an other original instead make their own I say which has been done.
Bond still has a built in fan base, Star Wars and marvel said goodbye to their audience long time ago. we will have to wait and see what happens to bond but upset the hardcore fan base who buy the franchise books, models, see the movies in short those who support the Francise.if they lose them bond is over.
_______________________________________________________________
Bond is a character of fiction, created by a writer who died decades ago, should continuation of the films have died with him? The franchise owners have only commercial interests as motivation, 'wokeness' doesn't come into it. In the 60's they had a field day, much less so now due to competition and Bond remains 'the straight, chisel jawed white male, so little has actually changed.
Interestingly they cast Judy Dench to replace M, previously played by a white male and few would argue she wasn't a success in the role, in fact new audiences wouldn't know any different and die hard fans like you and I would watch anyway.
Judy Dench was cast in no small part because of Stella Rimmington becoming the head of MI5. And yes she played a blinder, brilliant actress.
A wheelchair bound, black, transgender lesbian? Get it all over in one hit?
And when a black, wheelchair bound, trans lesbian invents a machine that converts sand into fuel at next to no cost and the only by exhaust product is sand, we can have a white, musculebound, heterosexual man play them in the movie? Ok?
I would have no issue with a black male playing the role but bond is THE character in a bond film. He’s a bloke. If you’re gonna change his character it’s not a bond film.
"______________________________________________________ I dont think I was advocating for a black, wheelchair bound trans lesbian Bond or any other group, I love the Bond films as they are and have been but I'm not averse to change. | |||
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" As for woke my experience is through Marvel, Star Trek, and Star Wars all ruined by gender politics, telling me what I should think now theses Francises are in tatters beyond repair. Star Trek was ‘woke’ in 1966. You know what, I do agree with you but I think the term back then was progressive.
The difference is, back in the 60s there’s was next to no black people in films or television. And next to nobody talking about some of the issues they broached. Star Trek did something that had never really been done before. And it wasn’t done to rub your nose in it.
Now we have real historical figures that were white being played by black actors when doing it the other way would be called racist. Next thing will be a black, gay, trans Henry VIII. But you’ll never have a white Malcom X
There’s talk of a female James Bond and a male moneypenny. The characters written by Ian Fleming were reflective of the times and yes that’s a bit of an outdated time. But this is a character that has evolved to some extent, but is a very well established character with a couple of dozen films in the can. If you want to make a film about a female secret agent with a male sidekick, do it. But have the balls to start from scratch, not try to ride on the bond coattails
Here here haw many times have I said to others why change my hero why mess with my Francises.
Just do their own.
I am a massive Bond fan to the point I have cars books and films, at the end of no time.. I couldn't leave my seat until I read he would return, I have follow any news of bond fearing mega wokness will kill him, when I heard the broccoli's had given Amazon 51% of bond giving them creative control, I knew bond is in trouble.
Personally I would rekick bond in the late fifties or 60's but if anyone has read the books they are racists, mansplaining etc but as you say those were the times.
There is only Spiderman left, even the silver surfer has gone through a change.
but I think times are a changing which may save bond time will tell.
_________________________________________
The producers of Bond have to change/adopt to engage with a continually renewing audience and competitive sector.
We tried to engage our (now adult) children in things that fascinated us eg Morecambe & Wise, The Two Ronnies and yes the old Bond films but they preferred things that reflected their own experiences of cultural diversity, gay people, people with disabilities etc that's nothing exceptional to them just their real lives and nothing to do with 'wokeness', they'd think it weird to be exposed to a diet of programmes exclusively starring straight, chisel jawed white men as the consistent protaganists!
That is exactly what Bond is a chiselled jaw white male.
I have seen so many other Bond type programmes that I have enjoyed and as a Bond fan I saw mission fallout which kicked bonds ass, Haywire a female lead spy drama plenty of action she kick every bloke ass who caused her trouble, atomic blonde fantastic film adapted from a hard back comic book, part 2 will be along shortly, female lead original story telling, why mess with an other original instead make their own I say which has been done.
Bond still has a built in fan base, Star Wars and marvel said goodbye to their audience long time ago. we will have to wait and see what happens to bond but upset the hardcore fan base who buy the franchise books, models, see the movies in short those who support the Francise.if they lose them bond is over.
_______________________________________________________________
Bond is a character of fiction, created by a writer who died decades ago, should continuation of the films have died with him? The franchise owners have only commercial interests as motivation, 'wokeness' doesn't come into it. In the 60's they had a field day, much less so now due to competition and Bond remains 'the straight, chisel jawed white male, so little has actually changed.
Interestingly they cast Judy Dench to replace M, previously played by a white male and few would argue she wasn't a success in the role, in fact new audiences wouldn't know any different and die hard fans like you and I would watch anyway."Judy Dench great actor I first saw her on TV acting with her late husband in a comedy called a fine romance. When she was cast I was pleased great actor who gave great performances and she is an Oscar winner for 15 minutes of screen time. I think it is a record. | |||
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" As for woke my experience is through Marvel, Star Trek, and Star Wars all ruined by gender politics, telling me what I should think now theses Francises are in tatters beyond repair. Star Trek was ‘woke’ in 1966. You know what, I do agree with you but I think the term back then was progressive.
The difference is, back in the 60s there’s was next to no black people in films or television. And next to nobody talking about some of the issues they broached. Star Trek did something that had never really been done before. And it wasn’t done to rub your nose in it.
Now we have real historical figures that were white being played by black actors when doing it the other way would be called racist. Next thing will be a black, gay, trans Henry VIII. But you’ll never have a white Malcom X
There’s talk of a female James Bond and a male moneypenny. The characters written by Ian Fleming were reflective of the times and yes that’s a bit of an outdated time. But this is a character that has evolved to some extent, but is a very well established character with a couple of dozen films in the can. If you want to make a film about a female secret agent with a male sidekick, do it. But have the balls to start from scratch, not try to ride on the bond coattails
Here here haw many times have I said to others why change my hero why mess with my Francises.
Just do their own.
I am a massive Bond fan to the point I have cars books and films, at the end of no time.. I couldn't leave my seat until I read he would return, I have follow any news of bond fearing mega wokness will kill him, when I heard the broccoli's had given Amazon 51% of bond giving them creative control, I knew bond is in trouble.
Personally I would rekick bond in the late fifties or 60's but if anyone has read the books they are racists, mansplaining etc but as you say those were the times.
There is only Spiderman left, even the silver surfer has gone through a change.
but I think times are a changing which may save bond time will tell.
_________________________________________
The producers of Bond have to change/adopt to engage with a continually renewing audience and competitive sector.
We tried to engage our (now adult) children in things that fascinated us eg Morecambe & Wise, The Two Ronnies and yes the old Bond films but they preferred things that reflected their own experiences of cultural diversity, gay people, people with disabilities etc that's nothing exceptional to them just their real lives and nothing to do with 'wokeness', they'd think it weird to be exposed to a diet of programmes exclusively starring straight, chisel jawed white men as the consistent protaganists!
That is exactly what Bond is a chiselled jaw white male.
I have seen so many other Bond type programmes that I have enjoyed and as a Bond fan I saw mission fallout which kicked bonds ass, Haywire a female lead spy drama plenty of action she kick every bloke ass who caused her trouble, atomic blonde fantastic film adapted from a hard back comic book, part 2 will be along shortly, female lead original story telling, why mess with an other original instead make their own I say which has been done.
Bond still has a built in fan base, Star Wars and marvel said goodbye to their audience long time ago. we will have to wait and see what happens to bond but upset the hardcore fan base who buy the franchise books, models, see the movies in short those who support the Francise.if they lose them bond is over.
I agree! Bond is Bond and if an audience "really exists" that wants a different type of Bond, studios should create a new character rather than changing an existing character.
It's the bottom line $ that drives them. If there's more profit in a rehash, rather than complete new works, they'll probably choose to rejig, as they've got less education to do, as the brand exists. "The bondverse as I have heard it called were owned by the broccolis now amazon have creative control, but the way bond is costed or made up is two companies EON productions who produce the Bond films and Danjaq which holds the rights to bond merchandise books, cloths, sunglasses, alcohol,anything to do with Bond with can be sold or licensed. this is why Connery left he asked to be producer and was told no. | |||
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"How can you be against being socially aware and progressive." When it's contrived into identity politics and rammed down peoples throats at every turn, as well as non stop subtle messaging everywhere. Even the mundane zebra crossing has been politicised with the rainbow flag. It's entirely surreal. | |||
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"Sacha Baron Cohen, he was flying around like an eccentric madmantimebandit in Alice In Wonderland. Or Jeff Goldblum he does great character acting. Mike Myers would do a good job. Or Dara `O Briain and he loves his astronomy. AI John Pertwee back it would be a first, in some retro episodes it would be a total mind fuck. " Add Steve Coogan to my list. Billie Piper interesting but not for more than one series, not eccentric enough. William Hartnell had it nailed, maybe an AI. Version of him or a lookalike. Maybe take an original last episode adapted and the doctor splits in two one changed into the next Dr back then and the other appears in 2025 but as William, just to fuck with everyones heads. | |||
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