Join us FREE, we're FREE to use
Web's largest swingers site since 2006.
Already registered?
Login here
Join us FREE, we're FREE to use
Web's largest swingers site since 2006.
Already registered?
Login here
 | Back to forum list |
| Back to Politics |
| Jump to newest |  |
| |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"Most of Spain and Portugal lost all electricity supply today causing absolutely chaos. Is this a warning to the UK to increase our energy security, and continue to use gas for our cooking and heating rather than total dependency on electricity?" Regarding electricity.. I think the uk got that wrong when the power grid exploded at Heathrow Anyway… remember back in the day when we had LNG storage facilities.. and then we closed them all!! Yeah… that!!! Anyway.. I feel sorry for the people who were half way through their haircuts!!!  | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"Most of Spain and Portugal lost all electricity supply today causing absolutely chaos. Is this a warning to the UK to increase our energy security, and continue to use gas for our cooking and heating rather than total dependency on electricity?" The trouble with solar is when the clouds cover the sun the voltage drops and when the clouds move away the voltage increases suddenly and converting dc to ac at a frequency the grid can use needs a grid powered by gas coal or nuclear to accept the electricity from the solar panels. | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
| |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"It seems extraordinary they still don't know the cause.🤷" im sure someone will be along soon To blame either yrump or russia or both, seems to be the usual go to in here these days | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"It seems extraordinary they still don't know the cause.🤷im sure someone will be along soon To blame either yrump or russia or both, seems to be the usual go to in here these days" They met their Net Zero targets though.  | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
| |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"Most of Spain and Portugal lost all electricity supply today causing absolutely chaos. Is this a warning to the UK to increase our energy security, and continue to use gas for our cooking and heating rather than total dependency on electricity? The trouble with solar is when the clouds cover the sun the voltage drops and when the clouds move away the voltage increases suddenly and converting dc to ac at a frequency the grid can use needs a grid powered by gas coal or nuclear to accept the electricity from the solar panels. " Don't batteries sort out this fluctuation? | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
| |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"The trouble with solar is when the clouds cover the sun the voltage drops and when the clouds move away the voltage increases suddenly and converting dc to ac at a frequency the grid can use needs a grid powered by gas coal or nuclear to accept the electricity from the solar panels." "Don't batteries sort out this fluctuation?" They could, if we flattened Essex, and covered the whole county with battery banks. But until that happens, no, batteries don't sort out the fluctuations. | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
| |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
| |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
OK transport was difficult for a few hours and if you were stuck on a train in a tunnel or in the middle of nowhere (Spain has a lot of nowhere) then it would be inconvenient to say the least. But why on Earth do people dive into supermarket sweep at the slightest hint of a problem? God only knows what would happen if it was something really serious.
As for us. We'd already planned to go out to eat and while we could have stoked up the BBQ we decided to see if we could get a take away from our favourite Chinese. Knowing that they cooked with gas and it really would take an atom bomb to close them.
Sure enough they were open and that take away became a sit down meal. The only difference was that one or two things were off the menu, the inside tables were closed due to darkness and it was cash payment only. The power actually came back on while we were paying the bill.
As we drove home we noticed that there was still a queue of around 20 cars at our local petrol station. 
In total we were without power for almost exactly 7 hours and the internet didn't come back until this morning.
The cause of it all remains to be seen but a good few "experts" are pointing at Spain's over reliance on solar as, at least, a contributing factor. | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"I can reliably inform you all that the power is back on. Well at least where we are, apparently some parts of the country are still off. Reading some of the reports this morning I wondered if we had suffered a nuclear attack or a Chernobyl type disaster and I'd missed it. Words like "carnage" and "devastation" were common in the reports. FFS the power went off for a few hours and it seemed half the country went into headless chicken mode.
OK transport was difficult for a few hours and if you were stuck on a train in a tunnel or in the middle of nowhere (Spain has a lot of nowhere) then it would be inconvenient to say the least. But why on Earth do people dive into supermarket sweep at the slightest hint of a problem? God only knows what would happen if it was something really serious.
As for us. We'd already planned to go out to eat and while we could have stoked up the BBQ we decided to see if we could get a take away from our favourite Chinese. Knowing that they cooked with gas and it really would take an atom bomb to close them.
Sure enough they were open and that take away became a sit down meal. The only difference was that one or two things were off the menu, the inside tables were closed due to darkness and it was cash payment only. The power actually came back on while we were paying the bill.
As we drove home we noticed that there was still a queue of around 20 cars at our local petrol station.
In total we were without power for almost exactly 7 hours and the internet didn't come back until this morning.
The cause of it all remains to be seen but a good few "experts" are pointing at Spain's over reliance on solar as, at least, a contributing factor."Good to hear all is OK, was thinking of you yesterday! | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
| |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
| |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"I can reliably inform you all that the power is back on. Well at least where we are, apparently some parts of the country are still off. Reading some of the reports this morning I wondered if we had suffered a nuclear attack or a Chernobyl type disaster and I'd missed it. Words like "carnage" and "devastation" were common in the reports. FFS the power went off for a few hours and it seemed half the country went into headless chicken mode.
OK transport was difficult for a few hours and if you were stuck on a train in a tunnel or in the middle of nowhere (Spain has a lot of nowhere) then it would be inconvenient to say the least. But why on Earth do people dive into supermarket sweep at the slightest hint of a problem? God only knows what would happen if it was something really serious.
As for us. We'd already planned to go out to eat and while we could have stoked up the BBQ we decided to see if we could get a take away from our favourite Chinese. Knowing that they cooked with gas and it really would take an atom bomb to close them.
Sure enough they were open and that take away became a sit down meal. The only difference was that one or two things were off the menu, the inside tables were closed due to darkness and it was cash payment only. The power actually came back on while we were paying the bill.
As we drove home we noticed that there was still a queue of around 20 cars at our local petrol station.
In total we were without power for almost exactly 7 hours and the internet didn't come back until this morning.
The cause of it all remains to be seen but a good few "experts" are pointing at Spain's over reliance on solar as, at least, a contributing factor.
Good to hear all is OK, was thinking of you yesterday!"Thanks. 
Let's hope it's a lesson learned. Mr Milliband take note. | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"The big question is, how many brits living/holidaying there were affected?" The Sun has despatched a reporter to find out. Many missed their All Day Full English Breakfast. | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"The big question is, how many brits living/holidaying there were affected? The Sun has despatched a reporter to find out. Many missed their All Day Full English Breakfast." Nah! That's only in the winter. It's spring now so it's Tostada con Tomate y aciete acompañada Pomelo fresco.  | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
| |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"this incident highlights the vulnerability of using the vastly outdated idea of a grid distribution system .... it doesn't matter how electricity is generated, if one part of a grid is taken out, the whole network suffers." And your alternative would be? Whether outdated or not we are pretty much stuck with the grid system for the foreseeable future. Maybe making generation a bit more reliable instead of being at the mercy of the weather could be a way forward.  | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"this incident highlights the vulnerability of using the vastly outdated idea of a grid distribution system .... it doesn't matter how electricity is generated, if one part of a grid is taken out, the whole network suffers." Isn't it the grid that brings system resilience? Electricity generators and users in cells would bring a single point of failure, no? | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"this incident highlights the vulnerability of using the vastly outdated idea of a grid distribution system .... it doesn't matter how electricity is generated, if one part of a grid is taken out, the whole network suffers. Isn't it the grid that brings system resilience? Electricity generators and users in cells would bring a single point of failure, no?" no, not on web based distribution networks connecting multiples of prosumers .... bit like the principle behind the world wide web | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"this incident highlights the vulnerability of using the vastly outdated idea of a grid distribution system .... it doesn't matter how electricity is generated, if one part of a grid is taken out, the whole network suffers. And your alternative would be? Whether outdated or not we are pretty much stuck with the grid system for the foreseeable future. Maybe making generation a bit more reliable instead of being at the mercy of the weather could be a way forward. "The use of renewables makes the grid even more essential as some areas will always generate more solar and wind power and without national distribution it will be lost at time of high capacity. | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
| |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"this incident highlights the vulnerability of using the vastly outdated idea of a grid distribution system .... it doesn't matter how electricity is generated, if one part of a grid is taken out, the whole network suffers. And your alternative would be? Whether outdated or not we are pretty much stuck with the grid system for the foreseeable future. Maybe making generation a bit more reliable instead of being at the mercy of the weather could be a way forward.
The use of renewables makes the grid even more essential as some areas will always generate more solar and wind power and without national distribution it will be lost at time of high capacity."PEI web networks are already consigning the grid principle to the dustbin where it belongs .... hopefully PEI web will be rolled out faster and faster now | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"Interesting to see the German Govt has commissioned new gas powered power stations to provide electricity when renewables are not generating. " Also interesting is that 3 of the 7 nuclear power stations in Spain were off line when the outage hit. It's only a few days ago that Spain was boasting, for the first time ever, of a full day of 100% renewable power. Well it seems that well and truly bit them on the arse. | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"this incident highlights the vulnerability of using the vastly outdated idea of a grid distribution system .... it doesn't matter how electricity is generated, if one part of a grid is taken out, the whole network suffers. And your alternative would be? Whether outdated or not we are pretty much stuck with the grid system for the foreseeable future. Maybe making generation a bit more reliable instead of being at the mercy of the weather could be a way forward.
The use of renewables makes the grid even more essential as some areas will always generate more solar and wind power and without national distribution it will be lost at time of high capacity.
PEI web networks are already consigning the grid principle to the dustbin where it belongs .... hopefully PEI web will be rolled out faster and faster now "Maybe, but in the meantime I'd stock up on candles. | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
| |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
" Maybe, but in the meantime I'd stock up on candles." mind you don't nod off and set fire to your campervan grandpa | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
" Maybe, but in the meantime I'd stock up on candles. mind you don't nod off and set fire to your campervan grandpa "So predictable. | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
| |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"this incident highlights the vulnerability of using the vastly outdated idea of a grid distribution system .... it doesn't matter how electricity is generated, if one part of a grid is taken out, the whole network suffers." That's just not true. At least, it shouldn't be. The whole point of a grid is that if any node falls out, others can take the strain, and if any connection fails, power can be re-routed over different connections. We don't know what happened in Spain yet, but whatever it was it's a design fault, not a problem with the concept of a grid. | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"this incident highlights the vulnerability of using the vastly outdated idea of a grid distribution system .... it doesn't matter how electricity is generated, if one part of a grid is taken out, the whole network suffers. And your alternative would be? Whether outdated or not we are pretty much stuck with the grid system for the foreseeable future. Maybe making generation a bit more reliable instead of being at the mercy of the weather could be a way forward.
The use of renewables makes the grid even more essential as some areas will always generate more solar and wind power and without national distribution it will be lost at time of high capacity.
PEI web networks are already consigning the grid principle to the dustbin where it belongs .... hopefully PEI web will be rolled out faster and faster now "Nonsense. Independent local networks still need a national grid to sell excess capacity and in case the renewables are not generating enough, which is most of the time in Northern Europe. | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"I trust that absolutely everyone who knows anyone who has either gone to the countries affected or knows anyone who lives there, has either phoned them or emailed them as soon as possible to ask whether or not they are ok." Why would anyone not be OK? Apart from spending the afternoon catching up on a bit of gardening instead of playing on here and limited TV channels last night my day was pretty normal. Hospitals Etc had back up power and the whole episode lasted for only a few hours. A few inconvenienced travellers and that was about it. Contrary to popular belief the earthquakes, volcanic eruptions and missile strikes didn't happen. | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
" That's just not true. At least, it shouldn't be. The whole point of a grid is that if any node falls out, others can take the strain, and if any connection fails, power can be re-routed over different connections. " it is a fact. the grid struggles if a line drops out, the other lines start to overload. " We don't know what happened in Spain yet, but whatever it was it's a design fault, not a problem with the concept of a grid." it's looking like a partial grid failiure caused an imbalance with a storm of eddy currents that overloaded the rest of the grid. i have four boys flying out tomorrow to assist with restoration of supplies, which funnily enough is relient on hydro and solar farms in a step by step process. later in the year we should be starting our contracts on the biscay gulf interconnector which will help prevent a repeat. | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"this incident highlights the vulnerability of using the vastly outdated idea of a grid distribution system .... it doesn't matter how electricity is generated, if one part of a grid is taken out, the whole network suffers. And your alternative would be? Whether outdated or not we are pretty much stuck with the grid system for the foreseeable future. Maybe making generation a bit more reliable instead of being at the mercy of the weather could be a way forward.
The use of renewables makes the grid even more essential as some areas will always generate more solar and wind power and without national distribution it will be lost at time of high capacity.
PEI web networks are already consigning the grid principle to the dustbin where it belongs .... hopefully PEI web will be rolled out faster and faster now
Nonsense. Independent local networks still need a national grid to sell excess capacity and in case the renewables are not generating enough, which is most of the time in Northern Europe. "so chapter 8 BS7671 amd 3 is nonsence? ok leo 🤡 | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"I trust that absolutely everyone who knows anyone who has either gone to the countries affected or knows anyone who lives there, has either phoned them or emailed them as soon as possible to ask whether or not they are ok. Why would anyone not be OK? Apart from spending the afternoon catching up on a bit of gardening instead of playing on here and limited TV channels last night my day was pretty normal. Hospitals Etc had back up power and the whole episode lasted for only a few hours. A few inconvenienced travellers and that was about it. Contrary to popular belief the earthquakes, volcanic eruptions and missile strikes didn't happen. " Sounds like some epic cope going on here. This is just indicative of the sad state of things across the UK and Europe. The region is massively underperforming and in steady decline. We get crap healthcare, awful schools, high taxes, an unproductive public sector, police who don’t do anything, any economic growth at all is seen as a major victory. Now this latest energy situation is just the start of the blackouts that we are all going to suffer as Europe unilaterally tries to “save the planet”. And the response generally is “we mustn’t grumble”, “things could be worse”, “think about how people in Sudan must live” etc etc. As though somehow all this is a sign of how well off we all are. | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"I trust that absolutely everyone who knows anyone who has either gone to the countries affected or knows anyone who lives there, has either phoned them or emailed them as soon as possible to ask whether or not they are ok. Why would anyone not be OK? Apart from spending the afternoon catching up on a bit of gardening instead of playing on here and limited TV channels last night my day was pretty normal. Hospitals Etc had back up power and the whole episode lasted for only a few hours. A few inconvenienced travellers and that was about it. Contrary to popular belief the earthquakes, volcanic eruptions and missile strikes didn't happen. Sounds like some epic cope going on here. This is just indicative of the sad state of things across the UK and Europe. The region is massively underperforming and in steady decline. We get crap healthcare, awful schools, high taxes, an unproductive public sector, police who don’t do anything, any economic growth at all is seen as a major victory. Now this latest energy situation is just the start of the blackouts that we are all going to suffer as Europe unilaterally tries to “save the planet”. And the response generally is “we mustn’t grumble”, “things could be worse”, “think about how people in Sudan must live” etc etc. As though somehow all this is a sign of how well off we all are." Make no mistake, Europe (including the UK) is in terminal decline and this is only a sign of things to come. We think we are rich but it's a mirage. A bit like the guy in designer clothes driving a Porsche while his credit cards are maxed out and the bank is calling in his loans. We are living in a fools paradise fuelled by debt and this is a warning that needs to be heeded. One poster on here likes to call be "Grandpa" well guess what? I'm glad I am. I've had my time and probably won't be around when this shit show really starts to unravel. | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
| |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
| |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"this incident highlights the vulnerability of using the vastly outdated idea of a grid distribution system .... it doesn't matter how electricity is generated, if one part of a grid is taken out, the whole network suffers. And your alternative would be? Whether outdated or not we are pretty much stuck with the grid system for the foreseeable future. Maybe making generation a bit more reliable instead of being at the mercy of the weather could be a way forward.
The use of renewables makes the grid even more essential as some areas will always generate more solar and wind power and without national distribution it will be lost at time of high capacity.
PEI web networks are already consigning the grid principle to the dustbin where it belongs .... hopefully PEI web will be rolled out faster and faster now
Nonsense. Independent local networks still need a national grid to sell excess capacity and in case the renewables are not generating enough, which is most of the time in Northern Europe.
so chapter 8 BS7671 amd 3 is nonsence? ok leo 🤡"You know what Prosumer means right? 🤦🤦🤦 | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"this incident highlights the vulnerability of using the vastly outdated idea of a grid distribution system .... it doesn't matter how electricity is generated, if one part of a grid is taken out, the whole network suffers. And your alternative would be? Whether outdated or not we are pretty much stuck with the grid system for the foreseeable future. Maybe making generation a bit more reliable instead of being at the mercy of the weather could be a way forward.
The use of renewables makes the grid even more essential as some areas will always generate more solar and wind power and without national distribution it will be lost at time of high capacity.
PEI web networks are already consigning the grid principle to the dustbin where it belongs .... hopefully PEI web will be rolled out faster and faster now
Nonsense. Independent local networks still need a national grid to sell excess capacity and in case the renewables are not generating enough, which is most of the time in Northern Europe.
so chapter 8 BS7671 amd 3 is nonsence? ok leo 🤡
You know what Prosumer means right? 🤦🤦🤦"in terms of the 18th yes .... seems you haven't a clue though. 🤡 | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"this incident highlights the vulnerability of using the vastly outdated idea of a grid distribution system .... it doesn't matter how electricity is generated, if one part of a grid is taken out, the whole network suffers. And your alternative would be? Whether outdated or not we are pretty much stuck with the grid system for the foreseeable future. Maybe making generation a bit more reliable instead of being at the mercy of the weather could be a way forward.
The use of renewables makes the grid even more essential as some areas will always generate more solar and wind power and without national distribution it will be lost at time of high capacity.
PEI web networks are already consigning the grid principle to the dustbin where it belongs .... hopefully PEI web will be rolled out faster and faster now
Nonsense. Independent local networks still need a national grid to sell excess capacity and in case the renewables are not generating enough, which is most of the time in Northern Europe.
so chapter 8 BS7671 amd 3 is nonsence? ok leo 🤡
You know what Prosumer means right? 🤦🤦🤦
in terms of the 18th yes .... seems you haven't a clue though. 🤡"Cool so how do Prosumers sell their excess capacity with no grid ? | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"this incident highlights the vulnerability of using the vastly outdated idea of a grid distribution system .... it doesn't matter how electricity is generated, if one part of a grid is taken out, the whole network suffers. And your alternative would be? Whether outdated or not we are pretty much stuck with the grid system for the foreseeable future. Maybe making generation a bit more reliable instead of being at the mercy of the weather could be a way forward.
The use of renewables makes the grid even more essential as some areas will always generate more solar and wind power and without national distribution it will be lost at time of high capacity.
PEI web networks are already consigning the grid principle to the dustbin where it belongs .... hopefully PEI web will be rolled out faster and faster now
Nonsense. Independent local networks still need a national grid to sell excess capacity and in case the renewables are not generating enough, which is most of the time in Northern Europe.
so chapter 8 BS7671 amd 3 is nonsence? ok leo 🤡
You know what Prosumer means right? 🤦🤦🤦
in terms of the 18th yes .... seems you haven't a clue though. 🤡
Cool so how do Prosumers sell their excess capacity with no grid ?"you mean you don't know? hilarious!🤡 | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"this incident highlights the vulnerability of using the vastly outdated idea of a grid distribution system .... it doesn't matter how electricity is generated, if one part of a grid is taken out, the whole network suffers. And your alternative would be? Whether outdated or not we are pretty much stuck with the grid system for the foreseeable future. Maybe making generation a bit more reliable instead of being at the mercy of the weather could be a way forward.
The use of renewables makes the grid even more essential as some areas will always generate more solar and wind power and without national distribution it will be lost at time of high capacity.
PEI web networks are already consigning the grid principle to the dustbin where it belongs .... hopefully PEI web will be rolled out faster and faster now
Nonsense. Independent local networks still need a national grid to sell excess capacity and in case the renewables are not generating enough, which is most of the time in Northern Europe.
so chapter 8 BS7671 amd 3 is nonsence? ok leo 🤡
You know what Prosumer means right? 🤦🤦🤦
in terms of the 18th yes .... seems you haven't a clue though. 🤡
Cool so how do Prosumers sell their excess capacity with no grid ?
you mean you don't know? hilarious!🤡
"No I don't so it should be easy for you to explain. | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"this incident highlights the vulnerability of using the vastly outdated idea of a grid distribution system .... it doesn't matter how electricity is generated, if one part of a grid is taken out, the whole network suffers. And your alternative would be? Whether outdated or not we are pretty much stuck with the grid system for the foreseeable future. Maybe making generation a bit more reliable instead of being at the mercy of the weather could be a way forward.
The use of renewables makes the grid even more essential as some areas will always generate more solar and wind power and without national distribution it will be lost at time of high capacity.
PEI web networks are already consigning the grid principle to the dustbin where it belongs .... hopefully PEI web will be rolled out faster and faster now
Nonsense. Independent local networks still need a national grid to sell excess capacity and in case the renewables are not generating enough, which is most of the time in Northern Europe.
so chapter 8 BS7671 amd 3 is nonsence? ok leo 🤡
You know what Prosumer means right? 🤦🤦🤦
in terms of the 18th yes .... seems you haven't a clue though. 🤡
Cool so how do Prosumers sell their excess capacity with no grid ?
you mean you don't know? hilarious!🤡
No I don't so it should be easy for you to explain. "ok just for you, start by reading part 8 chapter 82 and then read from annex A82 to D82. | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"this incident highlights the vulnerability of using the vastly outdated idea of a grid distribution system .... it doesn't matter how electricity is generated, if one part of a grid is taken out, the whole network suffers. And your alternative would be? Whether outdated or not we are pretty much stuck with the grid system for the foreseeable future. Maybe making generation a bit more reliable instead of being at the mercy of the weather could be a way forward.
The use of renewables makes the grid even more essential as some areas will always generate more solar and wind power and without national distribution it will be lost at time of high capacity.
PEI web networks are already consigning the grid principle to the dustbin where it belongs .... hopefully PEI web will be rolled out faster and faster now
Nonsense. Independent local networks still need a national grid to sell excess capacity and in case the renewables are not generating enough, which is most of the time in Northern Europe.
so chapter 8 BS7671 amd 3 is nonsence? ok leo 🤡
You know what Prosumer means right? 🤦🤦🤦
in terms of the 18th yes .... seems you haven't a clue though. 🤡
Cool so how do Prosumers sell their excess capacity with no grid ?
you mean you don't know? hilarious!🤡
No I don't so it should be easy for you to explain.
ok just for you, start by reading part 8 chapter 82 and then read from annex A82 to D82. "No worries, you can't explain because it's nonsense. If a local network wants to sell its surplus capacity outside that network, and have access to back up in case of insufficient capacity, it needs to be connected to other networks, preferably a national one giving maximum flexibility. Wasn't too hard Gramps ! | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
| |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
| |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
| |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
| |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
| |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"The UK is in a very fortunate position, with renewables, due to the volume of tidal ranges ..." Except that tidal power just doesn't work. Why is there only one grid-scale tidal plant in operation in the UK? Because it's just too expensive, and the equipment invariably gets ripped to pieces when the next big storm comes along. The only one we do have serves Orkney, which means that the expense can be justified. "... and future options to bank power." What are these future options to bank power? Has there been a breakthrough in physics recently? | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
| |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
| |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"The UK is in a very fortunate position, with renewables, due to the volume of tidal ranges ... Except that tidal power just doesn't work. Why is there only one grid-scale tidal plant in operation in the UK? Because it's just too expensive, and the equipment invariably gets ripped to pieces when the next big storm comes along. The only one we do have serves Orkney, which means that the expense can be justified. ..." I've got only one word for tidal power enthusiasts to chew on.. .. Sea . There's generally lots of it about, especially after gales. | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
| |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
| |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"Sea w*ed,for God's sake! Not bloody cannabis!" LOL.
Been bitten by that nonsense on here a few times.
Crazy is you can write cannabis but don't ever start a thread about w*eding the garden or taking gr*pes to your Roman orgy. | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"Crazy is you can write cannabis but don't ever start a thread about w*eding the garden or taking gr*pes to your Roman orgy." The word "grapes" is banned? | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"Crazy is you can write cannabis but don't ever start a thread about w*eding the garden or taking gr*pes to your Roman orgy. The word "grapes" is banned?" Apparently not. I just picked it as an example. I've had quite a few words with the same middle 4 letters kicked out though. | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
| |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"this incident highlights the vulnerability of using the vastly outdated idea of a grid distribution system .... it doesn't matter how electricity is generated, if one part of a grid is taken out, the whole network suffers. And your alternative would be? Whether outdated or not we are pretty much stuck with the grid system for the foreseeable future. Maybe making generation a bit more reliable instead of being at the mercy of the weather could be a way forward.
The use of renewables makes the grid even more essential as some areas will always generate more solar and wind power and without national distribution it will be lost at time of high capacity.
PEI web networks are already consigning the grid principle to the dustbin where it belongs .... hopefully PEI web will be rolled out faster and faster now
Nonsense. Independent local networks still need a national grid to sell excess capacity and in case the renewables are not generating enough, which is most of the time in Northern Europe.
so chapter 8 BS7671 amd 3 is nonsence? ok leo 🤡
You know what Prosumer means right? 🤦🤦🤦
in terms of the 18th yes .... seems you haven't a clue though. 🤡
Cool so how do Prosumers sell their excess capacity with no grid ?
you mean you don't know? hilarious!🤡
No I don't so it should be easy for you to explain.
ok just for you, start by reading part 8 chapter 82 and then read from annex A82 to D82.
No worries, you can't explain because it's nonsense. If a local network wants to sell its surplus capacity outside that network, and have access to back up in case of insufficient capacity, it needs to be connected to other networks, preferably a national one giving maximum flexibility. Wasn't too hard Gramps ! "🤡🤡🤡 | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"Sir Tony Blair says Net Zero policies 'doomed to fail'. https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cpvrwyp0jx3o" Yes. Seems like the old charlatan has had a sudden attack of common sense. | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"Crazy is you can write cannabis but don't ever start a thread about w*eding the garden or taking gr*pes to your Roman orgy." "The word "grapes" is banned?" "Apparently not. I just picked it as an example. I've had quite a few words with the same middle 4 letters kicked out though." Ah! I see where you were going now. The profanity filters on this site do seem to be set up very weirdly. I can't see why they bother with them. | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"One of the things I hadn’t fully appreciated was the importance of inertia from the old school generators to the overall smoothing of variability in the system. The old power stations rely on huge generators with massive turbines that keep on rotating even after power has gone out for quite a while and these provide a lot of the smoothing in the system." It's not so much that they keep spinning after the power has dropped out, it's more that they are huge heavy lumps of metal, and speeding them up or slowing them down takes a lot of energy. If you weren't aware, all of the generators in the country have to spin in exact synchronisation. If you stop providing mechanical input to a generator, it will continue spinning at the same speed as it gets dragged round by the power in the grid. It's this resistance to change that used to be a very helpful aspect of the power grid. As you say, nowadays we have lots of grid input from systems that can change frequency in an instant, meaning that we don't have that built-in resistance to change any more. That's especially so in Spain on sunny days, when all of the old rotational generators get switched out, and new fast reaction systems take their place. | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"One of the things I hadn’t fully appreciated was the importance of inertia from the old school generators to the overall smoothing of variability in the system. The old power stations rely on huge generators with massive turbines that keep on rotating even after power has gone out for quite a while and these provide a lot of the smoothing in the system. It's not so much that they keep spinning after the power has dropped out, it's more that they are huge heavy lumps of metal, and speeding them up or slowing them down takes a lot of energy. If you weren't aware, all of the generators in the country have to spin in exact synchronisation. If you stop providing mechanical input to a generator, it will continue spinning at the same speed as it gets dragged round by the power in the grid. It's this resistance to change that used to be a very helpful aspect of the power grid. As you say, nowadays we have lots of grid input from systems that can change frequency in an instant, meaning that we don't have that built-in resistance to change any more. That's especially so in Spain on sunny days, when all of the old rotational generators get switched out, and new fast reaction systems take their place." Thats why I used the word inertia | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
| |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"As for energy storage it doesn't need to be all about huge lithium battery banks. One simple measure is to pump water uphill when the sun shines and then generate electricity from that water returning to its previous level when it's dark. There are large losses caused by things like friction in such systems but gravity-based capacitors could provide a relatively low-tech degree of backup/inertia." And that works well for small users, or large scale short duration power generation. But we don't have enough hills, or enough water to run the entire country like that. Even if we did, the greens would be in uproar about the destruction of the environment, and I suspect most people would agree with them. | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"Most consumers in Spain or Portugal could probably live off of solar all year around. I spend much of my time living off-grid in the north of England. All of my electricity comes from solar power between March and October. I only need to use fossil fuel generation in winter. Commercial and industirial use is a different matter though. As for energy storage it doesn't need to be all about huge lithium battery banks. One simple measure is to pump water uphill when the sun shines and then generate electricity from that water returning to its previous level when it's dark. There are large losses caused by things like friction in such systems but gravity-based capacitors could provide a relatively low-tech degree of backup/inertia." I'm impressed you can live March to October on power generated by solar. Have you needed to make adjustments to your cooker, heating or other items that draw large amounts of energy to make that happen? | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"And that works well for small users, or large scale short duration power generation. But we don't have enough hills, or enough water to run the entire country like that. Even if we did, the greens would be in uproar about the destruction of the environment, and I suspect most people would agree with them." I agree, this isn't a panacea and other measures would still be needed. I'm no expert in these matters, just floating an idea that isn't based on chemical batteries that could be one part of an overall solution. On the green argument one possibility is adapting existing water reservoirs by dividing them into two sections. Although this would have impact on reserve capacity. Another option would be to use old coal mines - I think one experiment used a deep mine shaft with a steel weight to provide burst capacity, but pumping water around inside mines might be feasible. | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"I'm impressed you can live March to October on power generated by solar. Have you needed to make adjustments to your cooker, heating or other items that draw large amounts of energy to make that happen? " I was talking about electricity not power in general. I use LPG for cooking and heating water and I burn wood or smokeless coal to stay warm although I try to spend time further south in winter to avoid doing this. Most but not all domestic water heating is Spain and Portugal seems to be solar powered by the way. I do go without a washing machine and dish washer but I have all the usual electronic gadgets. My solar setup is quite modest and could be increased in capacity but it still effectively provides me with free electricity for most of the year. | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"I'm impressed you can live March to October on power generated by solar. Have you needed to make adjustments to your cooker, heating or other items that draw large amounts of energy to make that happen? I was talking about electricity not power in general. I use LPG for cooking and heating water and I burn wood or smokeless coal to stay warm although I try to spend time further south in winter to avoid doing this. Most but not all domestic water heating is Spain and Portugal seems to be solar powered by the way. I do go without a washing machine and dish washer but I have all the usual electronic gadgets. My solar setup is quite modest and could be increased in capacity but it still effectively provides me with free electricity for most of the year." This might be a stupid question... If you are avoiding the big electrical items in favour of gas and wood, is the investment in solar providing a ROI through the electric you use now as I'm guessing you only have lights and a few other modest electric uses. | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"I'm impressed you can live March to October on power generated by solar. Have you needed to make adjustments to your cooker, heating or other items that draw large amounts of energy to make that happen? I was talking about electricity not power in general. I use LPG for cooking and heating water and I burn wood or smokeless coal to stay warm although I try to spend time further south in winter to avoid doing this. Most but not all domestic water heating is Spain and Portugal seems to be solar powered by the way. I do go without a washing machine and dish washer but I have all the usual electronic gadgets. My solar setup is quite modest and could be increased in capacity but it still effectively provides me with free electricity for most of the year." We have 2 solar systems in our Spanish house. One just for hot water and one for electric. The water heater is basically just a tank with one solar panel but it's good enough for most of the year. In the colder months (Nov-March) it's fine for everyday warm water but for showers/baths we have to use the gas. The electric system doesn't cover all our demand and we don't have battery's. The excess we generate in the daytime is fed into the grid and then we draw from the grid at night. It's sort of like having an electricity bank account, pay in and draw out. We use quite a lot of electric but our summer bills are usually under 20€ per month and up to around 40€ in winter. On the down side our system doesn't allow for us to be independent from the grid so when it all went off on Monday so did we. | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"This might be a stupid question... If you are avoiding the big electrical items in favour of gas and wood, is the investment in solar providing a ROI through the electric you use now as I'm guessing you only have lights and a few other modest electric uses." I believe the average standing charge for electricity supply in the UK is about £195 per year. Any actual electricity you use is obviously on top of that. My modest solar system cost about £400 and I think it paid for itself after roughly 18 months. A typical household setup is much more powerful and sophisticated and costs about £5,000 (more for a large installation). I think it takes about 8 to 10 years for such an investment to break even. But a solar installation will increase the value of a property too. It's kind of a no brainer if you own your own property, can afford the investment and your home is suitable for a solar installation. | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
" on top of that. My modest solar system cost about £400 and I think it paid for itself after roughly 18 months. A typical household setup is much more powerful and sophisticated and costs about £5,000 (more for a large installation). I think it takes about 8 to 10 years for such an investment to break even." If your installation was paid off in 18 months, that rate would mean a £5000 installation would take 18.75 years to pay off. Of course, your setup has no connection to the grid, so you save standing charges, and get a pay off sooner. Most people would not be willing to do that so the pay off will come even later. My experience is that a solar installation does not increase a property price. Removing the grid connection will actually lower the house value. | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"If your installation was paid off in 18 months, that rate would mean a £5000 installation would take 18.75 years to pay off. Of course, your setup has no connection to the grid, so you save standing charges, and get a pay off sooner. Most people would not be willing to do that so the pay off will come even later. My experience is that a solar installation does not increase a property price. Removing the grid connection will actually lower the house value." I'm not suggesting that anyone does disconnect from the grid. Especially in winter, household solar systems will automatically draw from the grid when the power usage exceeds what the solar panels and battery can provide. Pay back time is complicated to work out as it depends on the power capacity of the solar system, the amount of power a household uses and the cost of buying electricity from the grid. The 8 to 10 year average estimate I wrote about is based on the last time I looked at this and it could be shorter or longer now. Assuming that no power is sent to the grid then the shortest pay back will be if the household uses just under the maximum power output of the solar system. Unless electricity is going to become much cheaper in the future, I suspect it's still a very worthwhile investment. | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"Assuming that no power is sent to the grid then the shortest pay back will be if the household uses just under the maximum power output of the solar system." My understanding is that feed-in tariffs are now so low that it's barely worth sending power back into the grid. Much more cost effective to get a battery system and keep all that free electricity for yourself. "Unless electricity is going to become much cheaper in the future, I suspect it's still a very worthwhile investment." It is if you're intending to stay in the house for the next 20 years. Not so much if you are likely to sell up any time soon. | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
| |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"It makes more sense to convert rotational energy to thermal energy via magnet induction at a local level (meaning no electrical generation). Then there are no electrical transmission losses in the cabling network (whatever the configuration). It also means heating is independent of a vulnerable grid. Of course, you'd only get thermal energy when the wind blew, but that could be mitigated by storage heaters." But with no way to transport heat, that means that you'd need to have a wind turbine on each house. If you had that, it would be inefficient for them to just generate heat, and thus be useless for half the year. Why not have them generating electricity which can be used all year round. Especially since conversion of electricity to heat is 100% efficient. | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"It is if you're intending to stay in the house for the next 20 years. Not so much if you are likely to sell up any time soon." I just checked and the Energy Saving Trust's figures say that for an average household it takes between 11 and 14 years to recoup the costs based on current electricity prices. | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
| |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"Back to the OP, no confirmation yet but suspicion it was an excess of renewable energy coming into the grid that caused Iberian blackouts." Darn those renewables for creating too much energy! | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"It makes more sense to convert rotational energy to thermal energy via magnet induction at a local level (meaning no electrical generation). Then there are no electrical transmission losses in the cabling network (whatever the configuration). It also means heating is independent of a vulnerable grid. Of course, you'd only get thermal energy when the wind blew, but that could be mitigated by storage heaters. But with no way to transport heat, that means that you'd need to have a wind turbine on each house. If you had that, it would be inefficient for them to just generate heat, and thus be useless for half the year. Why not have them generating electricity which can be used all year round. Especially since conversion of electricity to heat is 100% efficient." Yes, a local heating system in a cluster of properties. Why would it be inefficient? It's cheaper and more efficient to generate heat directly. Capex and opex both lower. Remember electricity isn't an energy source per se, it is just an energy transport system, with significant transmission costs energy losses and environmental impact. | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"Yes, a local heating system in a cluster of properties. Why would it be inefficient? It's cheaper and more efficient to generate heat directly." It would be inefficient because, in transporting the heat to each member of the cluster, there will be thermal losses from the piping. Electricity is difficult to transport over long distances, but over short distances, like a cluster of properties, the losses are negligible. You're proposing to generate heat via "magnet induction". This uses the same forces to generate heat as are used to generate electricity. The amount of heat energy generated would be exactly the same as the amount of electrical energy that could be generated. Since conversion of electricity to heat is 100% efficient, there's no difference in efficiency. Yes, generating heat would be cheaper, but generating electricity is so much more useful. With a heat generating system, you'd have a lovely warm house throughout the winter, but get no benefit in summer. With an electrical generating system, you'd still have a lovely warm house in winter, plus having lighting, and being able to use the excess power for something else in the summer. And we've not even considered that generating electricity would mean that you would be able to run heat pumps. Since these are now about 400% efficient, they'll be 4 times more efficient in the winter, and you can run them backwards to provide cooling in the summer. Is that enough, or would you like more? | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"Yes, a local heating system in a cluster of properties. Why would it be inefficient? It's cheaper and more efficient to generate heat directly. It would be inefficient because, in transporting the heat to each member of the cluster, there will be thermal losses from the piping. Electricity is difficult to transport over long distances, but over short distances, like a cluster of properties, the losses are negligible. You're proposing to generate heat via "magnet induction". This uses the same forces to generate heat as are used to generate electricity. The amount of heat energy generated would be exactly the same as the amount of electrical energy that could be generated. Since conversion of electricity to heat is 100% efficient, there's no difference in efficiency. Yes, generating heat would be cheaper, but generating electricity is so much more useful. With a heat generating system, you'd have a lovely warm house throughout the winter, but get no benefit in summer. With an electrical generating system, you'd still have a lovely warm house in winter, plus having lighting, and being able to use the excess power for something else in the summer. And we've not even considered that generating electricity would mean that you would be able to run heat pumps. Since these are now about 400% efficient, they'll be 4 times more efficient in the winter, and you can run them backwards to provide cooling in the summer. Is that enough, or would you like more?" Your argument on the prevailing weather is the same either way, so neutral (although heat is more readily stored than electricity). The initial cost of an induction generator is far less than an electricity generator, just permanent magnets and copper pipes. So payback far shorter. The recent problems in Spain and Portugal show the shortcomings of electrical distribution from renewals. Alternative solutions are needed, not Luddite attitudes. | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"Your argument on the prevailing weather is the same either way, so neutral" I haven't made an argument about prevailing weather. Unless you mean summer and winter, where it's clear that heating isn't useful in the summer, but electricity would be. "The initial cost of an induction generator is far less than an electricity generator, just permanent magnets and copper pipes. So payback far shorter." Agreed, but I think the 4x increase in efficiency and the added utility of electricity is worth the extra cost. "The recent problems in Spain and Portugal show the shortcomings of electrical distribution from renewals. Alternative solutions are needed, not Luddite attitudes." Having a small community wind powered electrical generator *is* an alternative solution. We don't have them today. I doubt that you'd ever get past the regulatory problems involved in becoming a supplier, or get buy-in from enough of the community to make it worthwhile, but it is a new solution. | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"It makes more sense to convert rotational energy to thermal energy via magnet induction at a local level (meaning no electrical generation). Then there are no electrical transmission losses in the cabling network (whatever the configuration). It also means heating is independent of a vulnerable grid. Of course, you'd only get thermal energy when the wind blew, but that could be mitigated by storage heaters. " there's an install taking place in a south wales colliery town by a british start-up which is harnessing heat exchange principals from the water flow in the 1000ft seam of an old mine. basically they are setting up a community heating project similar to those that have existed in eastern europe for near enough 100 years. it's very interesting. | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
| Post new Message to Thread |
| back to top |  |
