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"Hadn’t heard about it so looked on the council website, looks like there aren’t any here. " Not here either. Could be a short thread 🤣 | |||
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" Could be a short thread 🤣" You could broaden its scope to local erections | |||
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" Could be a short thread 🤣 You could broaden its scope to local erections " I'm sure there are some fine upstanding members. | |||
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"Don’t have any in my area but looking forward to the results with great interest. Labour will of course put their embarrassing defeats down to “the usual protest vote” against the government of the day. " Polls put Lab, Cons and Reform all around 25% so will be interesting to see how that plays out with FPTP system. Can't remember 3 parties so close before. | |||
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"Don’t have any in my area but looking forward to the results with great interest. Labour will of course put their embarrassing defeats down to “the usual protest vote” against the government of the day. Polls put Lab, Cons and Reform all around 25% so will be interesting to see how that plays out with FPTP system. Can't remember 3 parties so close before." Interesting. The polls I just looked at had conservatives and reform on 25% with labour and liberals on 18% and 17% respectively | |||
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"Labour will of course put their embarrassing defeats down to “the usual protest vote” against the government of the day." To be fair to Labour, the incumbent party usually does get a kicking at the local elections. But then, they've not been in power for a year yet, and to get people 'voting in protest' in such a short time is quite an achievement. | |||
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"Labour will of course put their embarrassing defeats down to “the usual protest vote” against the government of the day. To be fair to Labour, the incumbent party usually does get a kicking at the local elections. But then, they've not been in power for a year yet, and to get people 'voting in protest' in such a short time is quite an achievement." The Conservatives did very well at last local elections so they will probably lose a lot of seats this time. | |||
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"Are you voting ? Has your local election been cancelled? Will it be a breakthrough election for Reform ?" No voting in my area and reading the replies here seems I'm not alone. Lib dems tended to make good gains in local elections and by elections. They tend to be seen as a place to vote to register protest. If Reform manage to pinch a bit of that protest it could be more momentum for them | |||
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"It looks like everone agrees that Reform UK are on the rise. They have peeled away voters from both the Conservatives and Labour. There is a possibility of a cult of personality building around Farage that's very similar to what has happened with Trump so who knows, we could end up with the UK going down the same road as the US. Contemporary right-wing popularism needs to be properly understood which is why I keep bringing up Project 2025." Local council elections rarely provide the insights on a GE outcome pundits would like us to believe. As for right wing politics becoming more popular amongst voters, not right wing populism.... Are you saying that the right wing support has increased significantly sine July 4th last year, when the Labour party won by a landslide of progressive left wing promises? | |||
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"It looks like everone agrees that Reform UK are on the rise. They have peeled away voters from both the Conservatives and Labour. There is a possibility of a cult of personality building around Farage that's very similar to what has happened with Trump so who knows, we could end up with the UK going down the same road as the US. Contemporary right-wing popularism needs to be properly understood which is why I keep bringing up Project 2025." There’s actually quite a lot of people around Reform that are not a fan of Farage and think he’s a liability. They have certainly made a lot of ground since the general election and will continue to do so. I think the next parliament will be hung (shame they can’t hang this lot) and the conservatives and reform will do the deal that both sides insist they wont do | |||
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"It looks like everone agrees that Reform UK are on the rise. They have peeled away voters from both the Conservatives and Labour. There is a possibility of a cult of personality building around Farage that's very similar to what has happened with Trump so who knows, we could end up with the UK going down the same road as the US. Contemporary right-wing popularism needs to be properly understood which is why I keep bringing up Project 2025." Reform on the rise I would agree but at present in the polls only. Converting that into even local election success is the tricky bit. Only time will tell I guess | |||
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"Are you saying that the right wing support has increased significantly sine July 4th last year, when the Labour party won by a landslide of progressive left wing promises?" I don't think Labour won on a progressive left-wing agenda. Instead they repositioned themselves to the right. They now effectively occupy the ground that Major, Cameron and to some extent Johnson occupied. The Tories have struggled to adjust to this as many of them don't think that moving to the right is what Conservative ideology is about. There are still lots of "wet" Conservatives who basically agree with Labour's position on many things even if they won't admit it in public. Reform UK are the interesting component in this realignment as many of them seem to think they can get power by moving further to the right than the Conservatives. I think some of them look at what's happened in the US and think that a Make Britain Great Again strategy will work. Brexit showed that there's some appetite for this but the more chaos there is the USA the less attractive these ideas will seem to the public. But who know, we live in uncertain times. | |||
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"Are you saying that the right wing support has increased significantly sine July 4th last year, when the Labour party won by a landslide of progressive left wing promises? I don't think Labour won on a progressive left-wing agenda. Instead they repositioned themselves to the right. They now effectively occupy the ground that Major, Cameron and to some extent Johnson occupied. The Tories have struggled to adjust to this as many of them don't think that moving to the right is what Conservative ideology is about. There are still lots of "wet" Conservatives who basically agree with Labour's position on many things even if they won't admit it in public. Reform UK are the interesting component in this realignment as many of them seem to think they can get power by moving further to the right than the Conservatives. I think some of them look at what's happened in the US and think that a Make Britain Great Again strategy will work. Brexit showed that there's some appetite for this but the more chaos there is the USA the less attractive these ideas will seem to the public. But who know, we live in uncertain times. " They didn't position themselves on the right, they were left of centre. 
VAT on private education, pre signed over inflation pay awards for public sector, not taxing working people at the cost of business, GB energy, new workers rights, reform house of Lords, renationalise the railway, and that was the promises pre election, when they got in the politics of envy really took hold...
Left wing populists have moved so far left that centre has become right wing to them, and why they believe everything is a far right. | |||
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"Are you saying that the right wing support has increased significantly sine July 4th last year, when the Labour party won by a landslide of progressive left wing promises? I don't think Labour won on a progressive left-wing agenda. Instead they repositioned themselves to the right. They now effectively occupy the ground that Major, Cameron and to some extent Johnson occupied. The Tories have struggled to adjust to this as many of them don't think that moving to the right is what Conservative ideology is about. There are still lots of "wet" Conservatives who basically agree with Labour's position on many things even if they won't admit it in public. Reform UK are the interesting component in this realignment as many of them seem to think they can get power by moving further to the right than the Conservatives. I think some of them look at what's happened in the US and think that a Make Britain Great Again strategy will work. Brexit showed that there's some appetite for this but the more chaos there is the USA the less attractive these ideas will seem to the public. But who know, we live in uncertain times. They didn't position themselves on the right, they were left of centre.
VAT on private education, pre signed over inflation pay awards for public sector, not taxing working people at the cost of business, GB energy, new workers rights, reform house of Lords, renationalise the railway, and that was the promises pre election, when they got in the politics of envy really took hold...
Left wing populists have moved so far left that centre has become right wing to them, and why they believe everything is a far right. "I'm genuinely baffled as to why people who think they're politically informed enough to pontificate about it still persist in using an eighteenth century single axis model of political identification based on nothing more profoundly researched than the seating arrangements of the Friench parliament. | |||
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"I'm genuinely baffled as to why people who think they're politically informed enough to pontificate about it still persist in using an eighteenth century single axis model of political identification based on nothing more profoundly researched than the seating arrangements of the French parliament." The UK parliamentary system is riddled with historical anachronisms, people wearing silly clothes, archaic forms of address, the Monarch not being allowed in (but always being allowed in), I could go on for ages. The use of a two century old single axis model is scarcely unusual for UK politics. Plus of course, no one has come up with anything better (by which I mean easily understood by the general populace). | |||
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"Are you saying that the right wing support has increased significantly sine July 4th last year, when the Labour party won by a landslide of progressive left wing promises? I don't think Labour won on a progressive left-wing agenda. Instead they repositioned themselves to the right. They now effectively occupy the ground that Major, Cameron and to some extent Johnson occupied. The Tories have struggled to adjust to this as many of them don't think that moving to the right is what Conservative ideology is about. There are still lots of "wet" Conservatives who basically agree with Labour's position on many things even if they won't admit it in public. Reform UK are the interesting component in this realignment as many of them seem to think they can get power by moving further to the right than the Conservatives. I think some of them look at what's happened in the US and think that a Make Britain Great Again strategy will work. Brexit showed that there's some appetite for this but the more chaos there is the USA the less attractive these ideas will seem to the public. But who know, we live in uncertain times. They didn't position themselves on the right, they were left of centre.
VAT on private education, pre signed over inflation pay awards for public sector, not taxing working people at the cost of business, GB energy, new workers rights, reform house of Lords, renationalise the railway, and that was the promises pre election, when they got in the politics of envy really took hold...
Left wing populists have moved so far left that centre has become right wing to them, and why they believe everything is a far right. I'm genuinely baffled as to why people who think they're politically informed enough to pontificate about it still persist in using an eighteenth century single axis model of political identification based on nothing more profoundly researched than the seating arrangements of the Friench parliament." | |||
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"They didn't position themselves on the right, they were left of centre. VAT on private education, pre signed over inflation pay awards for public sector, not taxing working people at the cost of business, GB energy, new workers rights, reform house of Lords, renationalise the railway, and that was the promises pre election, when they got in the politics of envy really took hold... Left wing populists have moved so far left that centre has become right wing to them, and why they believe everything is a far right." Let me try and get this straight, are you saying that Corbyn and Starmer have pretty much identical political views? Labour under Starmer is what I would call centrist whereas Cobyn was definitely on the left edge of centre-left so by definition Labour have moved to the right. I also think that most recent previous Tory leaders have been essentially centrists. Badenoch is perhaps further to the right than Sunak or Starmer but in international terms she is still centre-right. Although she's yet to pin down any substantial economic policy so I'm not really sure where she's going. Mainstream British political parties tend to gravitate towards the centre as that's where the most votes are. Yes they might have a few left or right policies too but it's essentially all about not frightening people off. As to the left-right spectrum being a gross simplification of political dimensions I agree but it's still a useful one. The Wiki page on the subject https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Political_spectrum is actually quite well written. | |||
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"They didn't position themselves on the right, they were left of centre. VAT on private education, pre signed over inflation pay awards for public sector, not taxing working people at the cost of business, GB energy, new workers rights, reform house of Lords, renationalise the railway, and that was the promises pre election, when they got in the politics of envy really took hold... Left wing populists have moved so far left that centre has become right wing to them, and why they believe everything is a far right. Let me try and get this straight, are you saying that Corbyn and Starmer have pretty much identical political views? Labour under Starmer is what I would call centrist whereas Cobyn was definitely on the left edge of centre-left so by definition Labour have moved to the right. I also think that most recent previous Tory leaders have been essentially centrists. Badenoch is perhaps further to the right than Sunak or Starmer but in international terms she is still centre-right. Although she's yet to pin down any substantial economic policy so I'm not really sure where she's going. Mainstream British political parties tend to gravitate towards the centre as that's where the most votes are. Yes they might have a few left or right policies too but it's essentially all about not frightening people off. As to the left-right spectrum being a gross simplification of political dimensions I agree but it's still a useful one. The Wiki page on the subject https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Political_spectrum is actually quite well written. " No, I'm not say Starmer and Corbyn have identical political views, however they are both left of centre with one being further to the left than the other. Badenoch is trying to appeal to the right of the party in a bid to attract back the Reform voters but will need to soften the tone the closer we get to a GE, as you rightly say that is where the winning votes come from. | |||
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"They didn't position themselves on the right, they were left of centre. VAT on private education, pre signed over inflation pay awards for public sector, not taxing working people at the cost of business, GB energy, new workers rights, reform house of Lords, renationalise the railway, and that was the promises pre election, when they got in the politics of envy really took hold... Left wing populists have moved so far left that centre has become right wing to them, and why they believe everything is a far right. Let me try and get this straight, are you saying that Corbyn and Starmer have pretty much identical political views? Labour under Starmer is what I would call centrist whereas Cobyn was definitely on the left edge of centre-left so by definition Labour have moved to the right. I also think that most recent previous Tory leaders have been essentially centrists. Badenoch is perhaps further to the right than Sunak or Starmer but in international terms she is still centre-right. Although she's yet to pin down any substantial economic policy so I'm not really sure where she's going. Mainstream British political parties tend to gravitate towards the centre as that's where the most votes are. Yes they might have a few left or right policies too but it's essentially all about not frightening people off. As to the left-right spectrum being a gross simplification of political dimensions I agree but it's still a useful one. The Wiki page on the subject https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Political_spectrum is actually quite well written. " Did I read that right? In your opinion Corbyn, a 1970s socialist, is on the left edge of centre left? I know many people consider themselves centrist and so to be left wing they have to be more left than you. Same for the right. So I’m guessing you’d position yourself somewhere between Corbyn and Starmer? | |||
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"TNo, I'm not say Starmer and Corbyn have identical political views, however they are both left of centre with one being further to the left than the other. Badenoch is trying to appeal to the right of the party in a bid to attract back the Reform voters but will need to soften the tone the closer we get to a GE, as you rightly say that is where the winning votes come from. " So apart from a few nuances we agree. The Tories have a real problem on their hands with Reform UK. Labour too but to a far lesser extent. If Reform UK and the Tories merged then Labour would be very worried and would need to get Lib Dem and Green voters on their side before the next GE, but a merger doesnt look likely at the moment. The Tories will be calculating that popular support for Reform UK won't translate into a huge number of seats. | |||
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"So I’m guessing you’d position yourself somewhere between Corbyn and Starmer?" I'm pretty sure nobody actually cares about where I am on the political spectrum but I quess in crude terms yes. Although I'd probably describe myself as on the green left rather than the left. I think Corbyn often says dumb things. He's a bit out of date and tends to suggest simple solutions to complex problems. Starmer is more of a technocrat and seems to say things that he thinks will please people, so I find him difficult to trust. Neither are brilliant politicians. | |||
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"TNo, I'm not say Starmer and Corbyn have identical political views, however they are both left of centre with one being further to the left than the other. Badenoch is trying to appeal to the right of the party in a bid to attract back the Reform voters but will need to soften the tone the closer we get to a GE, as you rightly say that is where the winning votes come from. So apart from a few nuances we agree. The Tories have a real problem on their hands with Reform UK. Labour too but to a far lesser extent. If Reform UK and the Tories merged then Labour would be very worried and would need to get Lib Dem and Green voters on their side before the next GE, but a merger doesnt look likely at the moment. The Tories will be calculating that popular support for Reform UK won't translate into a huge number of seats." The tories wouldn't want the baggage that comes with the Reform party and Farage will want to influence them from within, it's his operating model. I think as long as the tories present a joined up party with a plan, that is probably enough to bring back a lot of the voters who abandoned them July 24. I think Reform are becoming more of a threat to the northern red wall vote of labour than the tories. | |||
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"The tories wouldn't want the baggage that comes with the Reform party and Farage will want to influence them from within, it's his operating model. I think as long as the tories present a joined up party with a plan, that is probably enough to bring back a lot of the voters who abandoned them July 24. I think Reform are becoming more of a threat to the northern red wall vote of labour than the tories." That makes sense. The problem for the Tories is what exactly is their plan going to be? So far Badenoch seems to be focusing on culture war issues when people tend to vote on matters that affect their wallets, healthcare, education and such like, so there are a lot of unknowns about the direction the Tories will take. If they tack too far to the right they'll lose votes to labour. If they don't move to the right then they'll lose votes to Reform. Labour have a similar problem as they are squeezed between the liberal green left on one side and what I'd call populist centre-right voters on their right. By populist, I mean something like the Oxford Language definition "a person, especially a politician, who strives to appeal to ordinary people who feel that their concerns are disregarded by established elite groups". It's not an Inherently pejorative term although I think the type of populism promoted by MAGA and the Heritage Foundation in the US is very negative and there's a risk of centre-right populism here drifting in that direction. | |||
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"So far Badenoch seems to be focusing on culture war issues when people tend to vote on matters that affect their wallets, healthcare, education and such like ..." I wouldn't say that she's focusing on culture war issues. Her current obsession with the definition of "woman" is more down to showing Keir Starmer to be a flip-flopper. I think that's her best tack - to make Labour look disorganised and incompetent. At the last election, many people were fed up with the Tories and voted Labour thinking "how bad can they be". Kemi's best option is to highlight all of Labour's indecisions and mistakes, and hope the electorate go back to the devil they know. | |||
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"I wouldn't say that she's focusing on culture war issues. Her current obsession with the definition of "woman" is more down to showing Keir Starmer to be a flip-flopper. I think that's her best tack - to make Labour look disorganised and incompetent. At the last election, many people were fed up with the Tories and voted Labour thinking "how bad can they be". Kemi's best option is to highlight all of Labour's indecisions and mistakes, and hope the electorate go back to the devil they know." Maybe I am wrong. Can you point out anything substantial she has said on economic matters since becoming Leader of the Opposition? Anything about healthcare? Anything about education? Anything about industrial strategy? Any policy proposals on these things? | |||
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"I wouldn't say that she's focusing on culture war issues. Her current obsession with the definition of "woman" is more down to showing Keir Starmer to be a flip-flopper. I think that's her best tack - to make Labour look disorganised and incompetent. At the last election, many people were fed up with the Tories and voted Labour thinking "how bad can they be". Kemi's best option is to highlight all of Labour's indecisions and mistakes, and hope the electorate go back to the devil they know." "Maybe I am wrong. Can you point out anything substantial she has said on economic matters since becoming Leader of the Opposition? Anything about healthcare? Anything about education? Anything about industrial strategy? Any policy proposals on these things?" Ah, that's a different issue. Has she said anything substantive on policy? Not that I'm aware of (though I've not been paying much attention to her). But obviously all those previously Tory voters that changed their vote last time weren't swayed by policies. The Tory policies didn't change, so if those policies mattered to those voters they would have stayed with the Tories. No, they were swayed by the idea that the Tories weren't doing a good job and somebody else would do better. If Kemi wants to win then back, she needs to make Labour look incompetent and weak-willed, so that those Tory defectors will once again see the Tories as being the best option. | |||
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"Also by election in Runcorn, safe Labour seat but Reform could go close." Reform will likely win Runcorn Usual protest vote against the incumbent government etc, doesn’t bode well after only one year of Starmer’s Labour. I hope Reform do well generally tbh, they have the aura of rats in a sack, with plenty of skeletons in the cupboard. Would be good to start getting more of their ilk under the spotlight. | |||
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"Down the last century and right into this, various governments have purposely allowed our National decline. They have driven a political correct dogma, and encouraged mass immigration. Nobody asked the working class if they wanted to live in a multiracial society, they know what we would have said, a resounding NO! We now have an opportunity, to support a movement that already has members of parliament, a party that will put the British people first and foremost. A party that will deport illegal immigrants and immigrants that break our laws. Don’t wait until later, support and vote for Reform UK, now!" There are only two choices currently in British politics. The Uniparty or Reform. | |||
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"Down the last century and right into this, various governments have purposely allowed our National decline. They have driven a political correct dogma, and encouraged mass immigration. Nobody asked the working class if they wanted to live in a multiracial society, they know what we would have said, a resounding NO! We now have an opportunity, to support a movement that already has members of parliament, a party that will put the British people first and foremost. A party that will deport illegal immigrants and immigrants that break our laws. Don’t wait until later, support and vote for Reform UK, now!" In other words, you think that the working class are all racists like yourself? | |||
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"Down the last century and right into this, various governments have purposely allowed our National decline. They have driven a political correct dogma, and encouraged mass immigration. Nobody asked the working class if they wanted to live in a multiracial society, they know what we would have said, a resounding NO! We now have an opportunity, to support a movement that already has members of parliament, a party that will put the British people first and foremost. A party that will deport illegal immigrants and immigrants that break our laws. Don’t wait until later, support and vote for Reform UK, now! In other words, you think that the working class are all racists like yourself? " So because I’m not in favour of immigration I am a ‘racist?’ Typical liberal response, not even slightly addressing the points I made, points I insist are valid. It will be the working class that will elect Reform UK in today’s elections, and again in 2029. | |||
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"Down the last century and right into this, various governments have purposely allowed our National decline. They have driven a political correct dogma, and encouraged mass immigration. Nobody asked the working class if they wanted to live in a multiracial society, they know what we would have said, a resounding NO! We now have an opportunity, to support a movement that already has members of parliament, a party that will put the British people first and foremost. A party that will deport illegal immigrants and immigrants that break our laws. Don’t wait until later, support and vote for Reform UK, now! In other words, you think that the working class are all racists like yourself? So because I’m not in favour of immigration I am a ‘racist?’ Typical liberal response, not even slightly addressing the points I made, points I insist are valid. It will be the working class that will elect Reform UK in today’s elections, and again in 2029." I insist they are not valid. You stated that nobody asked the working class if they wanted a multiracial society and that, had they asked, it would have been a NO. Have you polled the working class? Forget the illegal side of immigration, what's your solution to low birth rates, an aging population an a workforce with increasing number of job shy people who have never wanted to work? If we want to grow as a country, don't we want to attract the top brains no matter their colour? You think it simple. Reform tells you it's simple. You fall for it. | |||
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" Forget the illegal side of immigration, what's your solution to low birth rates, an aging population an a workforce with increasing number of job shy people who have never wanted to work? If we want to grow as a country, don't we want to attract the top brains no matter their colour? You think it simple. Reform tells you it's simple. You fall for it. " Spot on this, well said. If the Reform lot wanted less immigration, then Brits should have been having more kids after the Baby Booms & also not living as long themselves as they are doing. Retiring at 65 & living until 85 costs the state a lot more money than it used to, when people lived shorter lives & a smaller pool of current workers have to pay for that, that’s how the system works. As for the workshy, it’s very simple don’t ya know. They’ll force them into work. And when they don’t comply because they can’t be ar$ed & have never been ar$ed, then maybe the workshy will turn to crime instead, but they’ll be no prison space available for them because of the last 15 years of right wing austerity. | |||
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"Down the last century and right into this, various governments have purposely allowed our National decline. They have driven a political correct dogma, and encouraged mass immigration. Nobody asked the working class if they wanted to live in a multiracial society, they know what we would have said, a resounding NO! We now have an opportunity, to support a movement that already has members of parliament, a party that will put the British people first and foremost. A party that will deport illegal immigrants and immigrants that break our laws. Don’t wait until later, support and vote for Reform UK, now! In other words, you think that the working class are all racists like yourself? So because I’m not in favour of immigration I am a ‘racist?’ Typical liberal response, not even slightly addressing the points I made, points I insist are valid. It will be the working class that will elect Reform UK in today’s elections, and again in 2029. I insist they are not valid. You stated that nobody asked the working class if they wanted a multiracial society and that, had they asked, it would have been a NO. Have you polled the working class? Forget the illegal side of immigration, what's your solution to low birth rates, an aging population an a workforce with increasing number of job shy people who have never wanted to work? If we want to grow as a country, don't we want to attract the top brains no matter their colour? You think it simple. Reform tells you it's simple. You fall for it. " It is true, immigrants have been given special privileges, especially when it comes to public housing. Those who come her illegally don’t, but they do the lowest skilled jobs for much less than the national living wage. I’ve seen the raids as they happened. I know at least one restaurant owner who hires illegals to work in her restaurant, especially chefs. They fine her, she pays the fine and does it again. Recently foreign nationals are buying mopeds and delivering food to peoples addresses. They don’t need to know the way, they have sat navs. So how is it that this can happen right under everyone’s noses? It doesn’t matter what race or colour you are, you will be undercut at every level. From housing to employment, you will be priced out of the market. | |||
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"Down the last century and right into this, various governments have purposely allowed our National decline. They have driven a political correct dogma, and encouraged mass immigration. Nobody asked the working class if they wanted to live in a multiracial society, they know what we would have said, a resounding NO! We now have an opportunity, to support a movement that already has members of parliament, a party that will put the British people first and foremost. A party that will deport illegal immigrants and immigrants that break our laws. Don’t wait until later, support and vote for Reform UK, now! In other words, you think that the working class are all racists like yourself? So because I’m not in favour of immigration I am a ‘racist?’ Typical liberal response, not even slightly addressing the points I made, points I insist are valid. It will be the working class that will elect Reform UK in today’s elections, and again in 2029. I insist they are not valid. You stated that nobody asked the working class if they wanted a multiracial society and that, had they asked, it would have been a NO. Have you polled the working class? Forget the illegal side of immigration, what's your solution to low birth rates, an aging population an a workforce with increasing number of job shy people who have never wanted to work? If we want to grow as a country, don't we want to attract the top brains no matter their colour? You think it simple. Reform tells you it's simple. You fall for it. It is true, immigrants have been given special privileges, especially when it comes to public housing. Those who come her illegally don’t, but they do the lowest skilled jobs for much less than the national living wage. I’ve seen the raids as they happened. I know at least one restaurant owner who hires illegals to work in her restaurant, especially chefs. They fine her, she pays the fine and does it again. Recently foreign nationals are buying mopeds and delivering food to peoples addresses. They don’t need to know the way, they have sat navs. So how is it that this can happen right under everyone’s noses? It doesn’t matter what race or colour you are, you will be undercut at every level. From housing to employment, you will be priced out of the market." It's almost as though you have answered an entirely different comment 
I thought you were blabbering on about multiracial society but now turns out to be immigrant.
What are these "special privileges" when it comes to housing?
If the working class are that bothered, why do they continue to order takeaway rather than collection? Too lazy (well, perhaps that reflects in some of their work effort?) or not that bothered?
Also, don't say "you will be priced out"...you don't know me and have no idea how this does or doesn't affect me. If it affects you, that's on you....
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"Down the last century and right into this, various governments have purposely allowed our National decline. They have driven a political correct dogma, and encouraged mass immigration. Nobody asked the working class if they wanted to live in a multiracial society, they know what we would have said, a resounding NO! We now have an opportunity, to support a movement that already has members of parliament, a party that will put the British people first and foremost. A party that will deport illegal immigrants and immigrants that break our laws. Don’t wait until later, support and vote for Reform UK, now! In other words, you think that the working class are all racists like yourself? So because I’m not in favour of immigration I am a ‘racist?’ Typical liberal response, not even slightly addressing the points I made, points I insist are valid. It will be the working class that will elect Reform UK in today’s elections, and again in 2029. I insist they are not valid. You stated that nobody asked the working class if they wanted a multiracial society and that, had they asked, it would have been a NO. Have you polled the working class? Forget the illegal side of immigration, what's your solution to low birth rates, an aging population an a workforce with increasing number of job shy people who have never wanted to work? If we want to grow as a country, don't we want to attract the top brains no matter their colour? You think it simple. Reform tells you it's simple. You fall for it. It is true, immigrants have been given special privileges, especially when it comes to public housing. Those who come her illegally don’t, but they do the lowest skilled jobs for much less than the national living wage. I’ve seen the raids as they happened. I know at least one restaurant owner who hires illegals to work in her restaurant, especially chefs. They fine her, she pays the fine and does it again. Recently foreign nationals are buying mopeds and delivering food to peoples addresses. They don’t need to know the way, they have sat navs. So how is it that this can happen right under everyone’s noses? It doesn’t matter what race or colour you are, you will be undercut at every level. From housing to employment, you will be priced out of the market. It's almost as though you have answered an entirely different comment
I thought you were blabbering on about multiracial society but now turns out to be immigrant.
What are these "special privileges" when it comes to housing?
If the working class are that bothered, why do they continue to order takeaway rather than collection? Too lazy (well, perhaps that reflects in some of their work effort?) or not that bothered?
Also, don't say "you will be priced out"...you don't know me and have no idea how this does or doesn't affect me. If it affects you, that's on you....
"So let’s get this straight. You don’t think that immigration and a multiracial society are somehow connected? Also I don’t blabber, I’m straight to the facts. The masses of work for delivery drivers happened during COVID, and it is still going strong. And when I say ‘you’ will be priced out of the market I mean the working class, I certainly wasn’t aiming it at you. Peace out! | |||
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"Also by election in Runcorn, safe Labour seat but Reform could go close. Reform will likely win Runcorn Usual protest vote against the incumbent government etc, doesn’t bode well after only one year of Starmer’s Labour. I hope Reform do well generally tbh, they have the aura of rats in a sack, with plenty of skeletons in the cupboard. Would be good to start getting more of their ilk under the spotlight." I don't think they (Reform) will win personally. Labour had a big majority less than a year ago which would be very difficult to overcome but expect the majority to be reduced by quite a bit. If Reform are a clear second place they can claim good progress and Labour can still claim the seat | |||
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"Also by election in Runcorn, safe Labour seat but Reform could go close. Reform will likely win Runcorn Usual protest vote against the incumbent government etc, doesn’t bode well after only one year of Starmer’s Labour. I hope Reform do well generally tbh, they have the aura of rats in a sack, with plenty of skeletons in the cupboard. Would be good to start getting more of their ilk under the spotlight. I don't think they (Reform) will win personally. Labour had a big majority less than a year ago which would be very difficult to overcome but expect the majority to be reduced by quite a bit. If Reform are a clear second place they can claim good progress and Labour can still claim the seat" Reform sound confident they will win. Result about 3am for you insomniacs. | |||
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"Down the last century and right into this, various governments have purposely allowed our National decline. They have driven a political correct dogma, and encouraged mass immigration. Nobody asked the working class if they wanted to live in a multiracial society, they know what we would have said, a resounding NO! We now have an opportunity, to support a movement that already has members of parliament, a party that will put the British people first and foremost. A party that will deport illegal immigrants and immigrants that break our laws. Don’t wait until later, support and vote for Reform UK, now! In other words, you think that the working class are all racists like yourself? So because I’m not in favour of immigration I am a ‘racist?’ Typical liberal response, not even slightly addressing the points I made, points I insist are valid. It will be the working class that will elect Reform UK in today’s elections, and again in 2029. I insist they are not valid. You stated that nobody asked the working class if they wanted a multiracial society and that, had they asked, it would have been a NO. Have you polled the working class? Forget the illegal side of immigration, what's your solution to low birth rates, an aging population an a workforce with increasing number of job shy people who have never wanted to work? If we want to grow as a country, don't we want to attract the top brains no matter their colour? You think it simple. Reform tells you it's simple. You fall for it. It is true, immigrants have been given special privileges, especially when it comes to public housing. Those who come her illegally don’t, but they do the lowest skilled jobs for much less than the national living wage. I’ve seen the raids as they happened. I know at least one restaurant owner who hires illegals to work in her restaurant, especially chefs. They fine her, she pays the fine and does it again. Recently foreign nationals are buying mopeds and delivering food to peoples addresses. They don’t need to know the way, they have sat navs. So how is it that this can happen right under everyone’s noses? It doesn’t matter what race or colour you are, you will be undercut at every level. From housing to employment, you will be priced out of the market. It's almost as though you have answered an entirely different comment
I thought you were blabbering on about multiracial society but now turns out to be immigrant.
What are these "special privileges" when it comes to housing?
If the working class are that bothered, why do they continue to order takeaway rather than collection? Too lazy (well, perhaps that reflects in some of their work effort?) or not that bothered?
Also, don't say "you will be priced out"...you don't know me and have no idea how this does or doesn't affect me. If it affects you, that's on you....
So let’s get this straight. You don’t think that immigration and a multiracial society are somehow connected? Also I don’t blabber, I’m straight to the facts. The masses of work for delivery drivers happened during COVID, and it is still going strong. And when I say ‘you’ will be priced out of the market I mean the working class, I certainly wasn’t aiming it at you.
Peace out!"Of course they are connect. Immigrants tend to be from different races. But it's one thing saying you don't want immigrants here and another pointing out their race.... What are these special privileges? Can you answer that? Or, do you, like most Reform voters, get stuck when the answer to a question is not in the script? Are you another "they all get out in 5 star hotels" believer? | |||
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"Down the last century and right into this, various governments have purposely allowed our National decline. They have driven a political correct dogma, and encouraged mass immigration. Nobody asked the working class if they wanted to live in a multiracial society, they know what we would have said, a resounding NO! We now have an opportunity, to support a movement that already has members of parliament, a party that will put the British people first and foremost. A party that will deport illegal immigrants and immigrants that break our laws. Don’t wait until later, support and vote for Reform UK, now! In other words, you think that the working class are all racists like yourself? So because I’m not in favour of immigration I am a ‘racist?’ Typical liberal response, not even slightly addressing the points I made, points I insist are valid. It will be the working class that will elect Reform UK in today’s elections, and again in 2029. I insist they are not valid. You stated that nobody asked the working class if they wanted a multiracial society and that, had they asked, it would have been a NO. Have you polled the working class? Forget the illegal side of immigration, what's your solution to low birth rates, an aging population an a workforce with increasing number of job shy people who have never wanted to work? If we want to grow as a country, don't we want to attract the top brains no matter their colour? You think it simple. Reform tells you it's simple. You fall for it. It is true, immigrants have been given special privileges, especially when it comes to public housing. Those who come her illegally don’t, but they do the lowest skilled jobs for much less than the national living wage. I’ve seen the raids as they happened. I know at least one restaurant owner who hires illegals to work in her restaurant, especially chefs. They fine her, she pays the fine and does it again. Recently foreign nationals are buying mopeds and delivering food to peoples addresses. They don’t need to know the way, they have sat navs. So how is it that this can happen right under everyone’s noses? It doesn’t matter what race or colour you are, you will be undercut at every level. From housing to employment, you will be priced out of the market. It's almost as though you have answered an entirely different comment
I thought you were blabbering on about multiracial society but now turns out to be immigrant.
What are these "special privileges" when it comes to housing?
If the working class are that bothered, why do they continue to order takeaway rather than collection? Too lazy (well, perhaps that reflects in some of their work effort?) or not that bothered?
Also, don't say "you will be priced out"...you don't know me and have no idea how this does or doesn't affect me. If it affects you, that's on you....
So let’s get this straight. You don’t think that immigration and a multiracial society are somehow connected? Also I don’t blabber, I’m straight to the facts. The masses of work for delivery drivers happened during COVID, and it is still going strong. And when I say ‘you’ will be priced out of the market I mean the working class, I certainly wasn’t aiming it at you.
Peace out!
Of course they are connect. Immigrants tend to be from different races. But it's one thing saying you don't want immigrants here and another pointing out their race....
What are these special privileges? Can you answer that? Or, do you, like most Reform voters, get stuck when the answer to a question is not in the script? Are you another "they all get out in 5 star hotels" believer?
"No, the special privileges to which I referred are in public housing. Immigrants, including Eastern Europeans have, for a long time been put to the front of the queue, at the expense of local people. It’s been like that for many years and it has to change. | |||
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"Reform won the Runcorn by election by 6 votes, taking the seat from Labour. Always hard to assess by elections, but it shows the mood. Oddly no Trump kick-back as in Canada. Why is that I wonder? Wouldn't Reform bring much of the same chaos if the attained office? Perhaps it just shows how disillusioned voters are with the main parties, Labour and Tories. " It shows how out many voters are easily conned by the drivel they are absorbing on social media. Do they honestly believe that, for example, Reform wouldn't fully privatised the NHS just because Farage now says he wouldn't? Do they honestly believe that leaving the ECHR is a good thing when there are other ways to sort out immigration? Do they believe that their rights as workers will be protected? Whilst I appreciate Tories inflicted 14 years on us and Labour has a difficult job to fixed things, do they really believe Reform , a party led by a grifter and will deplorable people like 50p Lee are the actual answer?! Couldnt make it up! | |||
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"Down the last century and right into this, various governments have purposely allowed our National decline. They have driven a political correct dogma, and encouraged mass immigration. Nobody asked the working class if they wanted to live in a multiracial society, they know what we would have said, a resounding NO! We now have an opportunity, to support a movement that already has members of parliament, a party that will put the British people first and foremost. A party that will deport illegal immigrants and immigrants that break our laws. Don’t wait until later, support and vote for Reform UK, now! In other words, you think that the working class are all racists like yourself? So because I’m not in favour of immigration I am a ‘racist?’ Typical liberal response, not even slightly addressing the points I made, points I insist are valid. It will be the working class that will elect Reform UK in today’s elections, and again in 2029. I insist they are not valid. You stated that nobody asked the working class if they wanted a multiracial society and that, had they asked, it would have been a NO. Have you polled the working class? Forget the illegal side of immigration, what's your solution to low birth rates, an aging population an a workforce with increasing number of job shy people who have never wanted to work? If we want to grow as a country, don't we want to attract the top brains no matter their colour? You think it simple. Reform tells you it's simple. You fall for it. It is true, immigrants have been given special privileges, especially when it comes to public housing. Those who come her illegally don’t, but they do the lowest skilled jobs for much less than the national living wage. I’ve seen the raids as they happened. I know at least one restaurant owner who hires illegals to work in her restaurant, especially chefs. They fine her, she pays the fine and does it again. Recently foreign nationals are buying mopeds and delivering food to peoples addresses. They don’t need to know the way, they have sat navs. So how is it that this can happen right under everyone’s noses? It doesn’t matter what race or colour you are, you will be undercut at every level. From housing to employment, you will be priced out of the market. It's almost as though you have answered an entirely different comment
I thought you were blabbering on about multiracial society but now turns out to be immigrant.
What are these "special privileges" when it comes to housing?
If the working class are that bothered, why do they continue to order takeaway rather than collection? Too lazy (well, perhaps that reflects in some of their work effort?) or not that bothered?
Also, don't say "you will be priced out"...you don't know me and have no idea how this does or doesn't affect me. If it affects you, that's on you....
So let’s get this straight. You don’t think that immigration and a multiracial society are somehow connected? Also I don’t blabber, I’m straight to the facts. The masses of work for delivery drivers happened during COVID, and it is still going strong. And when I say ‘you’ will be priced out of the market I mean the working class, I certainly wasn’t aiming it at you.
Peace out!
Of course they are connect. Immigrants tend to be from different races. But it's one thing saying you don't want immigrants here and another pointing out their race....
What are these special privileges? Can you answer that? Or, do you, like most Reform voters, get stuck when the answer to a question is not in the script? Are you another "they all get out in 5 star hotels" believer?
No, the special privileges to which I referred are in public housing. Immigrants, including Eastern Europeans have, for a long time been put to the front of the queue, at the expense of local people. It’s been like that for many years and it has to change."The statement you shared reflects a common claim but is not supported by clear evidence in most cases. In the UK, access to public housing is based on need, such as homelessness, overcrowding, or medical grounds, rather than nationality alone. Immigrants, including Eastern Europeans, do not automatically get priority over local people. Evidence and I don't mean just anacedotel. | |||
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"Reform won the Runcorn by election by 6 votes, taking the seat from Labour. Always hard to assess by elections, but it shows the mood. Oddly no Trump kick-back as in Canada. Why is that I wonder? Wouldn't Reform bring much of the same chaos if the attained office? Perhaps it just shows how disillusioned voters are with the main parties, Labour and Tories. It shows how out many voters are easily conned by the drivel they are absorbing on social media. Do they honestly believe that, for example, Reform wouldn't fully privatised the NHS just because Farage now says he wouldn't? Do they honestly believe that leaving the ECHR is a good thing when there are other ways to sort out immigration? Do they believe that their rights as workers will be protected? Whilst I appreciate Tories inflicted 14 years on us and Labour has a difficult job to fixed things, do they really believe Reform , a party led by a grifter and will deplorable people like 50p Lee are the actual answer?! Couldnt make it up! " “Labour has a difficult job to fix things” “Voters are easily conned by the drivel they are absorbing on social media”. Time for you to locate the nearest mirror I think. | |||
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"Reform won the Runcorn by election by 6 votes, taking the seat from Labour. Always hard to assess by elections, but it shows the mood. Oddly no Trump kick-back as in Canada. Why is that I wonder? Wouldn't Reform bring much of the same chaos if the attained office? Perhaps it just shows how disillusioned voters are with the main parties, Labour and Tories. It shows how out many voters are easily conned by the drivel they are absorbing on social media. Do they honestly believe that, for example, Reform wouldn't fully privatised the NHS just because Farage now says he wouldn't? Do they honestly believe that leaving the ECHR is a good thing when there are other ways to sort out immigration? Do they believe that their rights as workers will be protected? Whilst I appreciate Tories inflicted 14 years on us and Labour has a difficult job to fixed things, do they really believe Reform , a party led by a grifter and will deplorable people like 50p Lee are the actual answer?! Couldnt make it up! " I think what people believe, take your examples, are that:- 1. The NHS is a basket case for the best part and in need of urgent reform. 2. Uncontrolled immigration never gets sorted. 3. Trade Unions like UNITE cause misery to ordinary people e.g. Birmingham bin strikes. It all plays into the hands of Reform, yet the other parties still sit on their hands on these keys issues. | |||
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"Thing with Farage is he is a Thatcherite. He called Liz Truss’ budget the best Conservative budget since 1986. Don’t know about you, but I think the evidence of the negatives of Thatcherism are all too apparent. Sale of Council Housing, Sale of nationalised utilities & so on. Hilarious that Farage was recently in favour of re-nationalising British Steel tbh after his goddess privatised it." A perfect example of Farage saying anything to get votes... | |||
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"Reform won the Runcorn by election by 6 votes, taking the seat from Labour. Always hard to assess by elections, but it shows the mood. Oddly no Trump kick-back as in Canada. Why is that I wonder? Wouldn't Reform bring much of the same chaos if the attained office? Perhaps it just shows how disillusioned voters are with the main parties, Labour and Tories. It shows how out many voters are easily conned by the drivel they are absorbing on social media. Do they honestly believe that, for example, Reform wouldn't fully privatised the NHS just because Farage now says he wouldn't? Do they honestly believe that leaving the ECHR is a good thing when there are other ways to sort out immigration? Do they believe that their rights as workers will be protected? Whilst I appreciate Tories inflicted 14 years on us and Labour has a difficult job to fixed things, do they really believe Reform , a party led by a grifter and will deplorable people like 50p Lee are the actual answer?! Couldnt make it up! I think what people believe, take your examples, are that:- 1. The NHS is a basket case for the best part and in need of urgent reform. 2. Uncontrolled immigration never gets sorted. 3. Trade Unions like UNITE cause misery to ordinary people e.g. Birmingham bin strikes. It all plays into the hands of Reform, yet the other parties still sit on their hands on these keys issues." Exactly this We’ve had 10 months of sound bites and podiums Labour are a disaster of false promises. | |||
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"Reform won the Runcorn by election by 6 votes, taking the seat from Labour. Always hard to assess by elections, but it shows the mood. Oddly no Trump kick-back as in Canada. Why is that I wonder? Wouldn't Reform bring much of the same chaos if the attained office? Perhaps it just shows how disillusioned voters are with the main parties, Labour and Tories. It shows how out many voters are easily conned by the drivel they are absorbing on social media. Do they honestly believe that, for example, Reform wouldn't fully privatised the NHS just because Farage now says he wouldn't? Do they honestly believe that leaving the ECHR is a good thing when there are other ways to sort out immigration? Do they believe that their rights as workers will be protected? Whilst I appreciate Tories inflicted 14 years on us and Labour has a difficult job to fixed things, do they really believe Reform , a party led by a grifter and will deplorable people like 50p Lee are the actual answer?! Couldnt make it up! " It's really time the right to vote was linked to intelligence tests so that only the better informed voters such as yourself can take part. | |||
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"Reform won the Runcorn by election by 6 votes, taking the seat from Labour. Always hard to assess by elections, but it shows the mood. Oddly no Trump kick-back as in Canada. Why is that I wonder? Wouldn't Reform bring much of the same chaos if the attained office? Perhaps it just shows how disillusioned voters are with the main parties, Labour and Tories. It shows how out many voters are easily conned by the drivel they are absorbing on social media. Do they honestly believe that, for example, Reform wouldn't fully privatised the NHS just because Farage now says he wouldn't? Do they honestly believe that leaving the ECHR is a good thing when there are other ways to sort out immigration? Do they believe that their rights as workers will be protected? Whilst I appreciate Tories inflicted 14 years on us and Labour has a difficult job to fixed things, do they really believe Reform , a party led by a grifter and will deplorable people like 50p Lee are the actual answer?! Couldnt make it up! I think what people believe, take your examples, are that:- 1. The NHS is a basket case for the best part and in need of urgent reform. 2. Uncontrolled immigration never gets sorted. 3. Trade Unions like UNITE cause misery to ordinary people e.g. Birmingham bin strikes. It all plays into the hands of Reform, yet the other parties still sit on their hands on these keys issues." NHS needs reforming. Hence Lord Darzi's report published in September. Since taking office, Labour has begun rolling out health reforms inspired by Lord Darzi’s 2024 report. This includes: Announcing new recruitment drives for NHS staff, reflecting Darzi’s focus on workforce expansion. Pledging investment in primary care and community health services, aiming to relieve pressure on hospitals—again very much in line with Darzi’s vision. Piloting new models of care delivery that focus on prevention and early intervention. Early policy moves have included: Funding for new diagnostic hubs. Promises of shorter waiting times, with timelines to tackle backlogs. Commitment to NHS infrastructure upgrades, especially tech and digital systems, which Darzi highlighted as critical. That said, since it’s still early in the new government’s term, the full implementation is in progress, and independent bodies like the King’s Fund are closely monitoring the rollout. With regards to uncontrolled migration, Labour is closely working with Europe. What Reform voters don't appreciate is we have a shared problem and if we help the French for example, we in turn help ourselves. The recent announcement of 1 for 1 swapping is a great idea but Reform voters don't seem to appreciate what that actually means. | |||
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" Whilst I appreciate Tories inflicted 14 years on us and Labour has a difficult job to fixed things, do they really believe Reform , a party led by a grifter and will deplorable people like 50p Lee are the actual answer?! Couldnt make it up! " If Labour were any good they wouldn’t have lost there Runcorn majority to a minority party with only a handful of MP’s. | |||
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"Thing with Farage is he is a Thatcherite. He called Liz Truss’ budget the best Conservative budget since 1986. Don’t know about you, but I think the evidence of the negatives of Thatcherism are all too apparent. Sale of Council Housing, Sale of nationalised utilities & so on. Hilarious that Farage was recently in favour of re-nationalising British Steel tbh after his goddess privatised it. A perfect example of Farage saying anything to get votes..." This Labour government is a disaster. Their economic policies are a shambles. They are just a bunch of public sector workers who haven’t got a clue about the real economy. Net zero is a joke and is destroying Uk industry and making all of us poorer for absolutely zero benefit. The illegal immigration situation continues to get worse. Labour has no plan to deal with it. We have a public sector that exists to serve itself and which gets more unproductive by the week. Meanwhile Labour’s focus is on niche stuff like the Chagos Islands and private school fees that nobody outside of north London cares about. And rather than undertaking some self analysis Labour supporters are just “Farage is a racist grifter”! “The voters are thick”! | |||
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"Reform won the Runcorn by election by 6 votes, taking the seat from Labour. Always hard to assess by elections, but it shows the mood. Oddly no Trump kick-back as in Canada. Why is that I wonder? Wouldn't Reform bring much of the same chaos if the attained office? Perhaps it just shows how disillusioned voters are with the main parties, Labour and Tories. It shows how out many voters are easily conned by the drivel they are absorbing on social media. Do they honestly believe that, for example, Reform wouldn't fully privatised the NHS just because Farage now says he wouldn't? Do they honestly believe that leaving the ECHR is a good thing when there are other ways to sort out immigration? Do they believe that their rights as workers will be protected? Whilst I appreciate Tories inflicted 14 years on us and Labour has a difficult job to fixed things, do they really believe Reform , a party led by a grifter and will deplorable people like 50p Lee are the actual answer?! Couldnt make it up! I think what people believe, take your examples, are that:- 1. The NHS is a basket case for the best part and in need of urgent reform. 2. Uncontrolled immigration never gets sorted. 3. Trade Unions like UNITE cause misery to ordinary people e.g. Birmingham bin strikes. It all plays into the hands of Reform, yet the other parties still sit on their hands on these keys issues. Exactly this We’ve had 10 months of sound bites and podiums Labour are a disaster of false promises. " Which is complete nonsense. Seriously, do some research and you will find out what they are doing. Maybe read my response 1 up from this and you might learn something. You do realise that Germany has changed some of their laws because of our influence? No, of course you don't. | |||
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"Thing with Farage is he is a Thatcherite. He called Liz Truss’ budget the best Conservative budget since 1986. Don’t know about you, but I think the evidence of the negatives of Thatcherism are all too apparent. Sale of Council Housing, Sale of nationalised utilities & so on. Hilarious that Farage was recently in favour of re-nationalising British Steel tbh after his goddess privatised it. A perfect example of Farage saying anything to get votes... This Labour government is a disaster. Their economic policies are a shambles. They are just a bunch of public sector workers who haven’t got a clue about the real economy. Net zero is a joke and is destroying Uk industry and making all of us poorer for absolutely zero benefit. The illegal immigration situation continues to get worse. Labour has no plan to deal with it. We have a public sector that exists to serve itself and which gets more unproductive by the week. Meanwhile Labour’s focus is on niche stuff like the Chagos Islands and private school fees that nobody outside of north London cares about. And rather than undertaking some self analysis Labour supporters are just “Farage is a racist grifter”! “The voters are thick”! " Wow, you summed up both the propaganda you are having rammed down your throat AND confirming the "voters of thick" point. | |||
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" Whilst I appreciate Tories inflicted 14 years on us and Labour has a difficult job to fixed things, do they really believe Reform , a party led by a grifter and will deplorable people like 50p Lee are the actual answer?! Couldnt make it up! If Labour were any good they wouldn’t have lost there Runcorn majority to a minority party with only a handful of MP’s. " *Their Point proven  | |||
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"Reform won the Runcorn by election by 6 votes, taking the seat from Labour. Always hard to assess by elections, but it shows the mood. Oddly no Trump kick-back as in Canada. Why is that I wonder? Wouldn't Reform bring much of the same chaos if the attained office? Perhaps it just shows how disillusioned voters are with the main parties, Labour and Tories. It shows how out many voters are easily conned by the drivel they are absorbing on social media. Do they honestly believe that, for example, Reform wouldn't fully privatised the NHS just because Farage now says he wouldn't? Do they honestly believe that leaving the ECHR is a good thing when there are other ways to sort out immigration? Do they believe that their rights as workers will be protected? Whilst I appreciate Tories inflicted 14 years on us and Labour has a difficult job to fixed things, do they really believe Reform , a party led by a grifter and will deplorable people like 50p Lee are the actual answer?! Couldnt make it up! It's really time the right to vote was linked to intelligence tests so that only the better informed voters such as yourself can take part." Thank you! However, don't need intelligence to be informed. You just need to turn off GBeebies and watch some proper news... | |||
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"Reform won the Runcorn by election by 6 votes, taking the seat from Labour. Always hard to assess by elections, but it shows the mood. Oddly no Trump kick-back as in Canada. Why is that I wonder? Wouldn't Reform bring much of the same chaos if the attained office? Perhaps it just shows how disillusioned voters are with the main parties, Labour and Tories. It shows how out many voters are easily conned by the drivel they are absorbing on social media. Do they honestly believe that, for example, Reform wouldn't fully privatised the NHS just because Farage now says he wouldn't? Do they honestly believe that leaving the ECHR is a good thing when there are other ways to sort out immigration? Do they believe that their rights as workers will be protected? Whilst I appreciate Tories inflicted 14 years on us and Labour has a difficult job to fixed things, do they really believe Reform , a party led by a grifter and will deplorable people like 50p Lee are the actual answer?! Couldnt make it up! I think what people believe, take your examples, are that:- 1. The NHS is a basket case for the best part and in need of urgent reform. 2. Uncontrolled immigration never gets sorted. 3. Trade Unions like UNITE cause misery to ordinary people e.g. Birmingham bin strikes. It all plays into the hands of Reform, yet the other parties still sit on their hands on these keys issues. NHS needs reforming. Hence Lord Darzi's report published in September. Since taking office, Labour has begun rolling out health reforms inspired by Lord Darzi’s 2024 report. This includes: Announcing new recruitment drives for NHS staff, reflecting Darzi’s focus on workforce expansion. Pledging investment in primary care and community health services, aiming to relieve pressure on hospitals—again very much in line with Darzi’s vision. Piloting new models of care delivery that focus on prevention and early intervention. Early policy moves have included: Funding for new diagnostic hubs. Promises of shorter waiting times, with timelines to tackle backlogs. Commitment to NHS infrastructure upgrades, especially tech and digital systems, which Darzi highlighted as critical. That said, since it’s still early in the new government’s term, the full implementation is in progress, and independent bodies like the King’s Fund are closely monitoring the rollout. With regards to uncontrolled migration, Labour is closely working with Europe. What Reform voters don't appreciate is we have a shared problem and if we help the French for example, we in turn help ourselves. The recent announcement of 1 for 1 swapping is a great idea but Reform voters don't seem to appreciate what that actually means." Not convinced the mooted reforms will change the NHS. imho it needs breaking-up in smaller, more manageable units. As for immigration and co-operation with the French, it's a pipe dream and they (the French) are playing us along. Their navy are guiding dinghies across the channel FFS. | |||
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"Reform won the Runcorn by election by 6 votes, taking the seat from Labour. Always hard to assess by elections, but it shows the mood. Oddly no Trump kick-back as in Canada. Why is that I wonder? Wouldn't Reform bring much of the same chaos if the attained office? Perhaps it just shows how disillusioned voters are with the main parties, Labour and Tories. It shows how out many voters are easily conned by the drivel they are absorbing on social media. Do they honestly believe that, for example, Reform wouldn't fully privatised the NHS just because Farage now says he wouldn't? Do they honestly believe that leaving the ECHR is a good thing when there are other ways to sort out immigration? Do they believe that their rights as workers will be protected? Whilst I appreciate Tories inflicted 14 years on us and Labour has a difficult job to fixed things, do they really believe Reform , a party led by a grifter and will deplorable people like 50p Lee are the actual answer?! Couldnt make it up! I think what people believe, take your examples, are that:- 1. The NHS is a basket case for the best part and in need of urgent reform. 2. Uncontrolled immigration never gets sorted. 3. Trade Unions like UNITE cause misery to ordinary people e.g. Birmingham bin strikes. It all plays into the hands of Reform, yet the other parties still sit on their hands on these keys issues. NHS needs reforming. Hence Lord Darzi's report published in September. Since taking office, Labour has begun rolling out health reforms inspired by Lord Darzi’s 2024 report. This includes: Announcing new recruitment drives for NHS staff, reflecting Darzi’s focus on workforce expansion. Pledging investment in primary care and community health services, aiming to relieve pressure on hospitals—again very much in line with Darzi’s vision. Piloting new models of care delivery that focus on prevention and early intervention. Early policy moves have included: Funding for new diagnostic hubs. Promises of shorter waiting times, with timelines to tackle backlogs. Commitment to NHS infrastructure upgrades, especially tech and digital systems, which Darzi highlighted as critical. That said, since it’s still early in the new government’s term, the full implementation is in progress, and independent bodies like the King’s Fund are closely monitoring the rollout. With regards to uncontrolled migration, Labour is closely working with Europe. What Reform voters don't appreciate is we have a shared problem and if we help the French for example, we in turn help ourselves. The recent announcement of 1 for 1 swapping is a great idea but Reform voters don't seem to appreciate what that actually means." Free clothes Second home right to buy flipper Housing minister with ridiculous 1.5 million new homes target Chancellor with faux CV Farmers to hand over 20% of their land in tax on death U turned environmental policies Slower interest rate cuts due to budget Rental housing contracts given to Serco offering above market rents forcing out long term ast tenants in favour of freeloading asylum seekers | |||
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"Thing with Farage is he is a Thatcherite. He called Liz Truss’ budget the best Conservative budget since 1986. Don’t know about you, but I think the evidence of the negatives of Thatcherism are all too apparent. Sale of Council Housing, Sale of nationalised utilities & so on. Hilarious that Farage was recently in favour of re-nationalising British Steel tbh after his goddess privatised it. A perfect example of Farage saying anything to get votes... This Labour government is a disaster. Their economic policies are a shambles. They are just a bunch of public sector workers who haven’t got a clue about the real economy. Net zero is a joke and is destroying Uk industry and making all of us poorer for absolutely zero benefit. The illegal immigration situation continues to get worse. Labour has no plan to deal with it. We have a public sector that exists to serve itself and which gets more unproductive by the week. Meanwhile Labour’s focus is on niche stuff like the Chagos Islands and private school fees that nobody outside of north London cares about. And rather than undertaking some self analysis Labour supporters are just “Farage is a racist grifter”! “The voters are thick”! " I get where your frustration is coming from—there’s definitely a lot of public debate around Labour’s performance so far. On the economy, while some policies are still rolling out, it’s worth noting that both parties have struggled with economic headwinds globally, and measures like investment in green industries are aimed at long-term resilience, though the short-term pain is real for many. Net Zero is controversial, but most mainstream economists and climate scientists argue it’s essential for future stability—even if the transition is bumpy and needs careful handling to protect jobs and industries. Immigration is another tough area. Labour’s critics say they’ve been slow, but supporters point to attempts to reform processing and strengthen borders—though, clearly, the issue remains unresolved. On things like the Chagos Islands and private school fees: while these might seem niche, they tie into broader principles of international law and social equity, which Labour sees as part of its remit—though I agree there’s a need to balance focus on immediate domestic concerns. As for political debate in general, I think it’s crucial we avoid blanket dismissals of either voters or political figures and instead push for clear, evidence-based policy discussions. | |||
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"Reform won the Runcorn by election by 6 votes, taking the seat from Labour. Always hard to assess by elections, but it shows the mood. Oddly no Trump kick-back as in Canada. Why is that I wonder? Wouldn't Reform bring much of the same chaos if the attained office? Perhaps it just shows how disillusioned voters are with the main parties, Labour and Tories. It shows how out many voters are easily conned by the drivel they are absorbing on social media. Do they honestly believe that, for example, Reform wouldn't fully privatised the NHS just because Farage now says he wouldn't? Do they honestly believe that leaving the ECHR is a good thing when there are other ways to sort out immigration? Do they believe that their rights as workers will be protected? Whilst I appreciate Tories inflicted 14 years on us and Labour has a difficult job to fixed things, do they really believe Reform , a party led by a grifter and will deplorable people like 50p Lee are the actual answer?! Couldnt make it up! I think what people believe, take your examples, are that:- 1. The NHS is a basket case for the best part and in need of urgent reform. 2. Uncontrolled immigration never gets sorted. 3. Trade Unions like UNITE cause misery to ordinary people e.g. Birmingham bin strikes. It all plays into the hands of Reform, yet the other parties still sit on their hands on these keys issues. Exactly this We’ve had 10 months of sound bites and podiums Labour are a disaster of false promises. Which is complete nonsense. Seriously, do some research and you will find out what they are doing. Maybe read my response 1 up from this and you might learn something. You do realise that Germany has changed some of their laws because of our influence? No, of course you don't. " Really? As someone who spends half my time in Germany and Mrs is German, we both must have missed that. Scholtz's government collapsed not long after Labour came to power in the UK. So I would doubt any influence there. The new German government was only cobbled together in the last few weeks and has barely passed anything. I think they will have much more to think about than copying anything from Starmer's shit show. Unless you are talking about Germany considering a Rwanda type scheme which was mooted during the election campaign but dropped the day after the poll. | |||
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"Reform won the Runcorn by election by 6 votes, taking the seat from Labour. Always hard to assess by elections, but it shows the mood. Oddly no Trump kick-back as in Canada. Why is that I wonder? Wouldn't Reform bring much of the same chaos if the attained office? Perhaps it just shows how disillusioned voters are with the main parties, Labour and Tories. It shows how out many voters are easily conned by the drivel they are absorbing on social media. Do they honestly believe that, for example, Reform wouldn't fully privatised the NHS just because Farage now says he wouldn't? Do they honestly believe that leaving the ECHR is a good thing when there are other ways to sort out immigration? Do they believe that their rights as workers will be protected? Whilst I appreciate Tories inflicted 14 years on us and Labour has a difficult job to fixed things, do they really believe Reform , a party led by a grifter and will deplorable people like 50p Lee are the actual answer?! Couldnt make it up! I think what people believe, take your examples, are that:- 1. The NHS is a basket case for the best part and in need of urgent reform. 2. Uncontrolled immigration never gets sorted. 3. Trade Unions like UNITE cause misery to ordinary people e.g. Birmingham bin strikes. It all plays into the hands of Reform, yet the other parties still sit on their hands on these keys issues. Exactly this We’ve had 10 months of sound bites and podiums Labour are a disaster of false promises. Which is complete nonsense. Seriously, do some research and you will find out what they are doing. Maybe read my response 1 up from this and you might learn something. You do realise that Germany has changed some of their laws because of our influence? No, of course you don't. Really? As someone who spends half my time in Germany and Mrs is German, we both must have missed that. Scholtz's government collapsed not long after Labour came to power in the UK. So I would doubt any influence there. The new German government was only cobbled together in the last few weeks and has barely passed anything. I think they will have much more to think about than copying anything from Starmer's shit show. Unless you are talking about Germany considering a Rwanda type scheme which was mooted during the election campaign but dropped the day after the poll." Dec 2024 Germany has pledged to tighten its law to make it easier to prosecute people-smugglers enabling small-boat crossings to Britain, as the two countries signed a new deal aimed at tackling immigration crime. Berlin confirmed plans to reform its legal framework make it a clear criminal offence to “facilitate the smuggling of migrants to the UK” as part of the agreement, the Home Office said. | |||
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"Reform UK is on track to take control of Lincolnshire county council, after winning 19 of the first 25 seats to be declared, with Labour on three And Northumberland; Labour -7, Tory -10, Reform +23 " So, will we see a CT freeze next year in Lincolnshire? I very much doubt it... | |||
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"The Labour MP Brian Leishman says the government “must change course” in the light of the Runcorn defeat" He also said, in the same sentence, "an end to austerity". Now, what austerity is that? He is an MP in Scotland living under an SNP government. | |||
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"Reform won the Runcorn by election by 6 votes, taking the seat from Labour. Always hard to assess by elections, but it shows the mood. Oddly no Trump kick-back as in Canada. Why is that I wonder? Wouldn't Reform bring much of the same chaos if the attained office? Perhaps it just shows how disillusioned voters are with the main parties, Labour and Tories. It shows how out many voters are easily conned by the drivel they are absorbing on social media. Do they honestly believe that, for example, Reform wouldn't fully privatised the NHS just because Farage now says he wouldn't? Do they honestly believe that leaving the ECHR is a good thing when there are other ways to sort out immigration? Do they believe that their rights as workers will be protected? Whilst I appreciate Tories inflicted 14 years on us and Labour has a difficult job to fixed things, do they really believe Reform , a party led by a grifter and will deplorable people like 50p Lee are the actual answer?! Couldnt make it up! I think what people believe, take your examples, are that:- 1. The NHS is a basket case for the best part and in need of urgent reform. 2. Uncontrolled immigration never gets sorted. 3. Trade Unions like UNITE cause misery to ordinary people e.g. Birmingham bin strikes. It all plays into the hands of Reform, yet the other parties still sit on their hands on these keys issues. Exactly this We’ve had 10 months of sound bites and podiums Labour are a disaster of false promises. Which is complete nonsense. Seriously, do some research and you will find out what they are doing. Maybe read my response 1 up from this and you might learn something. You do realise that Germany has changed some of their laws because of our influence? No, of course you don't. Really? As someone who spends half my time in Germany and Mrs is German, we both must have missed that. Scholtz's government collapsed not long after Labour came to power in the UK. So I would doubt any influence there. The new German government was only cobbled together in the last few weeks and has barely passed anything. I think they will have much more to think about than copying anything from Starmer's shit show. Unless you are talking about Germany considering a Rwanda type scheme which was mooted during the election campaign but dropped the day after the poll. Dec 2024 Germany has pledged to tighten its law to make it easier to prosecute people-smugglers enabling small-boat crossings to Britain, as the two countries signed a new deal aimed at tackling immigration crime. Berlin confirmed plans to reform its legal framework make it a clear criminal offence to “facilitate the smuggling of migrants to the UK” as part of the agreement, the Home Office said." You do realise that in Dec '24 Germany didn't have a government as such. At that time Scholtz was a caretaker chancellor in a minority just holding the fort until the February election. They could pledge and make plans for lots of things. Doesn't mean that any of it will ever happen. And as yet none of it has and probably never will. | |||
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"I expect a ‘Labour Party’ to be more left wing than this lot are. " Labour hoovered up the centre by rejecting the more left wing policies of their previous leadership. It's a strategy that worked. Policy is more about gaining access maintaining power than ideology. | |||
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"I expect a ‘Labour Party’ to be more left wing than this lot are. Labour hoovered up the centre by rejecting the more left wing policies of their previous leadership. It's a strategy that worked. Policy is more about gaining access maintaining power than ideology." Yeah, it worked under our dreadful electoral system, even though it can be noted they got a lot less votes than Corbyn in his pomp. Is it still working though after less than a year? The early evidence suggests not. | |||
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" Yeah, it worked under our dreadful electoral system, even though it can be noted they got a lot less votes than Corbyn in his pomp. Is it still working though after less than a year? The early evidence suggests not. " ...but they're losing votes to the right, not so much to the left. | |||
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"Reform won the Runcorn by election by 6 votes, taking the seat from Labour. Always hard to assess by elections, but it shows the mood. Oddly no Trump kick-back as in Canada. Why is that I wonder? Wouldn't Reform bring much of the same chaos if the attained office? Perhaps it just shows how disillusioned voters are with the main parties, Labour and Tories. It shows how out many voters are easily conned by the drivel they are absorbing on social media. Do they honestly believe that, for example, Reform wouldn't fully privatised the NHS just because Farage now says he wouldn't? Do they honestly believe that leaving the ECHR is a good thing when there are other ways to sort out immigration? Do they believe that their rights as workers will be protected? Whilst I appreciate Tories inflicted 14 years on us and Labour has a difficult job to fixed things, do they really believe Reform , a party led by a grifter and will deplorable people like 50p Lee are the actual answer?! Couldnt make it up! I think what people believe, take your examples, are that:- 1. The NHS is a basket case for the best part and in need of urgent reform. 2. Uncontrolled immigration never gets sorted. 3. Trade Unions like UNITE cause misery to ordinary people e.g. Birmingham bin strikes. It all plays into the hands of Reform, yet the other parties still sit on their hands on these keys issues. Exactly this We’ve had 10 months of sound bites and podiums Labour are a disaster of false promises. Which is complete nonsense. Seriously, do some research and you will find out what they are doing. Maybe read my response 1 up from this and you might learn something. You do realise that Germany has changed some of their laws because of our influence? No, of course you don't. Really? As someone who spends half my time in Germany and Mrs is German, we both must have missed that. Scholtz's government collapsed not long after Labour came to power in the UK. So I would doubt any influence there. The new German government was only cobbled together in the last few weeks and has barely passed anything. I think they will have much more to think about than copying anything from Starmer's shit show. Unless you are talking about Germany considering a Rwanda type scheme which was mooted during the election campaign but dropped the day after the poll. Dec 2024 Germany has pledged to tighten its law to make it easier to prosecute people-smugglers enabling small-boat crossings to Britain, as the two countries signed a new deal aimed at tackling immigration crime. Berlin confirmed plans to reform its legal framework make it a clear criminal offence to “facilitate the smuggling of migrants to the UK” as part of the agreement, the Home Office said. You do realise that in Dec '24 Germany didn't have a government as such. At that time Scholtz was a caretaker chancellor in a minority just holding the fort until the February election. They could pledge and make plans for lots of things. Doesn't mean that any of it will ever happen. And as yet none of it has and probably never will." So, the issue is with the Germans rather than the Labour government. Got it! Missing the point...The Government is doing more than most people appear to want to hear or admit. | |||
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" Yeah, it worked under our dreadful electoral system, even though it can be noted they got a lot less votes than Corbyn in his pomp. Is it still working though after less than a year? The early evidence suggests not. ...but they're losing votes to the right, not so much to the left." Well they are losing votes to the left as well as the right hence the Greens having their best GE last time out, but if you look at Labour heartlands, I think you have a significant cohort of Working Class voters who are economically left of centre, but they are also culturally right of centre & Reform’s ‘stop the immigrants’ message hits home as the simple solution to all their problems, just like Brexit was supposed to be. | |||
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" Yeah, it worked under our dreadful electoral system, even though it can be noted they got a lot less votes than Corbyn in his pomp. Is it still working though after less than a year? The early evidence suggests not. ...but they're losing votes to the right, not so much to the left. Well they are losing votes to the left as well as the right hence the Greens having their best GE last time out, but if you look at Labour heartlands, I think you have a significant cohort of Working Class voters who are economically left of centre, but they are also culturally right of centre & Reform’s ‘stop the immigrants’ message hits home as the simple solution to all their problems, just like Brexit was supposed to be. " Incredible isn't it. "We promise to stop immigration but we will take away some of your rights and your NHS" They go for the immigration... | |||
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"Let's look at the possibility of the next government being a Reform UK one with Farage as PM. The major pillar of the party appears to be to get rid of asylum seekers. What happens if this is done and nothing really improves for the working class? Next, it'll probably be - well we need to get rid of all immigrants. What happens if this doesn't work or badly backfires because much of our healthcare and other systems collapse? Will Reform UK work down a list of scapegoats? Next trade unionists, greens, sexual minorities, non-Christians... If this all fails they may eventually turn on the rich. And when they've completely run out of scapegoats and life still hasn't improved for the working class, they'll shrug and say gosh this politics malarkey is a bit more complicated than we thought. But by then society will have been hollowed out. " How's the weather on Fantasy Island today ? | |||
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"Reform won the Runcorn by election by 6 votes, taking the seat from Labour. Always hard to assess by elections, but it shows the mood. Oddly no Trump kick-back as in Canada. Why is that I wonder? Wouldn't Reform bring much of the same chaos if the attained office? Perhaps it just shows how disillusioned voters are with the main parties, Labour and Tories. It shows how out many voters are easily conned by the drivel they are absorbing on social media. Do they honestly believe that, for example, Reform wouldn't fully privatised the NHS just because Farage now says he wouldn't? Do they honestly believe that leaving the ECHR is a good thing when there are other ways to sort out immigration? Do they believe that their rights as workers will be protected? Whilst I appreciate Tories inflicted 14 years on us and Labour has a difficult job to fixed things, do they really believe Reform , a party led by a grifter and will deplorable people like 50p Lee are the actual answer?! Couldnt make it up! I think what people believe, take your examples, are that:- 1. The NHS is a basket case for the best part and in need of urgent reform. 2. Uncontrolled immigration never gets sorted. 3. Trade Unions like UNITE cause misery to ordinary people e.g. Birmingham bin strikes. It all plays into the hands of Reform, yet the other parties still sit on their hands on these keys issues. Exactly this We’ve had 10 months of sound bites and podiums Labour are a disaster of false promises. Which is complete nonsense. Seriously, do some research and you will find out what they are doing. Maybe read my response 1 up from this and you might learn something. You do realise that Germany has changed some of their laws because of our influence? No, of course you don't. Really? As someone who spends half my time in Germany and Mrs is German, we both must have missed that. Scholtz's government collapsed not long after Labour came to power in the UK. So I would doubt any influence there. The new German government was only cobbled together in the last few weeks and has barely passed anything. I think they will have much more to think about than copying anything from Starmer's shit show. Unless you are talking about Germany considering a Rwanda type scheme which was mooted during the election campaign but dropped the day after the poll. Dec 2024 Germany has pledged to tighten its law to make it easier to prosecute people-smugglers enabling small-boat crossings to Britain, as the two countries signed a new deal aimed at tackling immigration crime. Berlin confirmed plans to reform its legal framework make it a clear criminal offence to “facilitate the smuggling of migrants to the UK” as part of the agreement, the Home Office said. You do realise that in Dec '24 Germany didn't have a government as such. At that time Scholtz was a caretaker chancellor in a minority just holding the fort until the February election. They could pledge and make plans for lots of things. Doesn't mean that any of it will ever happen. And as yet none of it has and probably never will. So, the issue is with the Germans rather than the Labour government. Got it! Missing the point...The Government is doing more than most people appear to want to hear or admit. " No issue with the Germans at all. It was you that tried to use Germany as some way of defending the Labour party. The truth is that Germany hasn't been influenced by anything from the Labour party. Even the so called agreement cooked up by Scholtz and Starmer (along with Germany's Rwanda style idea) was nothing more than Scholtz trying to steal AFD's thunder a couple of months before an election. Trying to dress that up as some sort of victory for Starmer is a stretch that your average bungee jumper would be proud of. | |||
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"Reform won the Runcorn by election by 6 votes, taking the seat from Labour. Always hard to assess by elections, but it shows the mood. Oddly no Trump kick-back as in Canada. Why is that I wonder? Wouldn't Reform bring much of the same chaos if the attained office? Perhaps it just shows how disillusioned voters are with the main parties, Labour and Tories. It shows how out many voters are easily conned by the drivel they are absorbing on social media. Do they honestly believe that, for example, Reform wouldn't fully privatised the NHS just because Farage now says he wouldn't? Do they honestly believe that leaving the ECHR is a good thing when there are other ways to sort out immigration? Do they believe that their rights as workers will be protected? Whilst I appreciate Tories inflicted 14 years on us and Labour has a difficult job to fixed things, do they really believe Reform , a party led by a grifter and will deplorable people like 50p Lee are the actual answer?! Couldnt make it up! I think what people believe, take your examples, are that:- 1. The NHS is a basket case for the best part and in need of urgent reform. 2. Uncontrolled immigration never gets sorted. 3. Trade Unions like UNITE cause misery to ordinary people e.g. Birmingham bin strikes. It all plays into the hands of Reform, yet the other parties still sit on their hands on these keys issues. Exactly this We’ve had 10 months of sound bites and podiums Labour are a disaster of false promises. Which is complete nonsense. Seriously, do some research and you will find out what they are doing. Maybe read my response 1 up from this and you might learn something. You do realise that Germany has changed some of their laws because of our influence? No, of course you don't. Really? As someone who spends half my time in Germany and Mrs is German, we both must have missed that. Scholtz's government collapsed not long after Labour came to power in the UK. So I would doubt any influence there. The new German government was only cobbled together in the last few weeks and has barely passed anything. I think they will have much more to think about than copying anything from Starmer's shit show. Unless you are talking about Germany considering a Rwanda type scheme which was mooted during the election campaign but dropped the day after the poll. Dec 2024 Germany has pledged to tighten its law to make it easier to prosecute people-smugglers enabling small-boat crossings to Britain, as the two countries signed a new deal aimed at tackling immigration crime. Berlin confirmed plans to reform its legal framework make it a clear criminal offence to “facilitate the smuggling of migrants to the UK” as part of the agreement, the Home Office said. You do realise that in Dec '24 Germany didn't have a government as such. At that time Scholtz was a caretaker chancellor in a minority just holding the fort until the February election. They could pledge and make plans for lots of things. Doesn't mean that any of it will ever happen. And as yet none of it has and probably never will. So, the issue is with the Germans rather than the Labour government. Got it! Missing the point...The Government is doing more than most people appear to want to hear or admit. No issue with the Germans at all. It was you that tried to use Germany as some way of defending the Labour party. The truth is that Germany hasn't been influenced by anything from the Labour party. Even the so called agreement cooked up by Scholtz and Starmer (along with Germany's Rwanda style idea) was nothing more than Scholtz trying to steal AFD's thunder a couple of months before an election. Trying to dress that up as some sort of victory for Starmer is a stretch that your average bungee jumper would be proud of. " The agreement looked promising on paper, but its real-world impact has been delayed due to Germany’s internal political situation. How is that not an issue with the Germans?! 
The victory is that Starmer is working closely with the Europeans to combat the issue we all face across the continent. They actually want to speak to him and sort it out.
That makes a significant difference to the Tories who weren't interested in working the Europe and wjust said we would send them to Rwanda despite the reality that Rwanda would only take about 200 a year. Or, Reform "we will just ditch the ECHR" approach which will obviously not work because you can't just drop these people back to where they came from either on french soil or in the likes of Afghanistan.
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"Reform won the Runcorn by election by 6 votes, taking the seat from Labour. Always hard to assess by elections, but it shows the mood. Oddly no Trump kick-back as in Canada. Why is that I wonder? Wouldn't Reform bring much of the same chaos if the attained office? Perhaps it just shows how disillusioned voters are with the main parties, Labour and Tories. It shows how out many voters are easily conned by the drivel they are absorbing on social media. Do they honestly believe that, for example, Reform wouldn't fully privatised the NHS just because Farage now says he wouldn't? Do they honestly believe that leaving the ECHR is a good thing when there are other ways to sort out immigration? Do they believe that their rights as workers will be protected? Whilst I appreciate Tories inflicted 14 years on us and Labour has a difficult job to fixed things, do they really believe Reform , a party led by a grifter and will deplorable people like 50p Lee are the actual answer?! Couldnt make it up! I think what people believe, take your examples, are that:- 1. The NHS is a basket case for the best part and in need of urgent reform. 2. Uncontrolled immigration never gets sorted. 3. Trade Unions like UNITE cause misery to ordinary people e.g. Birmingham bin strikes. It all plays into the hands of Reform, yet the other parties still sit on their hands on these keys issues. Exactly this We’ve had 10 months of sound bites and podiums Labour are a disaster of false promises. Which is complete nonsense. Seriously, do some research and you will find out what they are doing. Maybe read my response 1 up from this and you might learn something. You do realise that Germany has changed some of their laws because of our influence? No, of course you don't. Really? As someone who spends half my time in Germany and Mrs is German, we both must have missed that. Scholtz's government collapsed not long after Labour came to power in the UK. So I would doubt any influence there. The new German government was only cobbled together in the last few weeks and has barely passed anything. I think they will have much more to think about than copying anything from Starmer's shit show. Unless you are talking about Germany considering a Rwanda type scheme which was mooted during the election campaign but dropped the day after the poll. Dec 2024 Germany has pledged to tighten its law to make it easier to prosecute people-smugglers enabling small-boat crossings to Britain, as the two countries signed a new deal aimed at tackling immigration crime. Berlin confirmed plans to reform its legal framework make it a clear criminal offence to “facilitate the smuggling of migrants to the UK” as part of the agreement, the Home Office said. You do realise that in Dec '24 Germany didn't have a government as such. At that time Scholtz was a caretaker chancellor in a minority just holding the fort until the February election. They could pledge and make plans for lots of things. Doesn't mean that any of it will ever happen. And as yet none of it has and probably never will. So, the issue is with the Germans rather than the Labour government. Got it! Missing the point...The Government is doing more than most people appear to want to hear or admit. No issue with the Germans at all. It was you that tried to use Germany as some way of defending the Labour party. The truth is that Germany hasn't been influenced by anything from the Labour party. Even the so called agreement cooked up by Scholtz and Starmer (along with Germany's Rwanda style idea) was nothing more than Scholtz trying to steal AFD's thunder a couple of months before an election. Trying to dress that up as some sort of victory for Starmer is a stretch that your average bungee jumper would be proud of. The agreement looked promising on paper, but its real-world impact has been delayed due to Germany’s internal political situation. How is that not an issue with the Germans?!
The victory is that Starmer is working closely with the Europeans to combat the issue we all face across the continent. They actually want to speak to him and sort it out.
That makes a significant difference to the Tories who weren't interested in working the Europe and wjust said we would send them to Rwanda despite the reality that Rwanda would only take about 200 a year. Or, Reform "we will just ditch the ECHR" approach which will obviously not work because you can't just drop these people back to where they came from either on french soil or in the likes of Afghanistan.
"The agreement was promising on paper? LOL. The only place it was promising was in Scholtz's SPD party (which is pretty much the German equivalent of Labour. Hmmm) His back was against the wall polling in 3rd place with immigration as the top issue in an election that was only weeks away. He would have agreed to anything back then if he thought it would make him look tough. Different ball game now though eh! Anyway, enough of Germany, you tried to use it in a bit of smoke and mirrors bluster to try and make Starmer look statesmanlike and I called you out on it. As for the Europeans. They only want to talk to him about free movement for the under 30's and trying to bully him (easily done BTW) into giving up fishing rights so that Britain can help with their defence. On anything else he's an irrelevance across the channel. | |||
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"So far today Reform have gained 96 council seats; Labour lost 23, tories lost 75. " Where are those numbers from? Sky News are still showing Reform on +23. | |||
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"Reform won the Runcorn by election by 6 votes, taking the seat from Labour. Always hard to assess by elections, but it shows the mood. Oddly no Trump kick-back as in Canada. Why is that I wonder? Wouldn't Reform bring much of the same chaos if the attained office? Perhaps it just shows how disillusioned voters are with the main parties, Labour and Tories. It shows how out many voters are easily conned by the drivel they are absorbing on social media. Do they honestly believe that, for example, Reform wouldn't fully privatised the NHS just because Farage now says he wouldn't? Do they honestly believe that leaving the ECHR is a good thing when there are other ways to sort out immigration? Do they believe that their rights as workers will be protected? Whilst I appreciate Tories inflicted 14 years on us and Labour has a difficult job to fixed things, do they really believe Reform , a party led by a grifter and will deplorable people like 50p Lee are the actual answer?! Couldnt make it up! I think what people believe, take your examples, are that:- 1. The NHS is a basket case for the best part and in need of urgent reform. 2. Uncontrolled immigration never gets sorted. 3. Trade Unions like UNITE cause misery to ordinary people e.g. Birmingham bin strikes. It all plays into the hands of Reform, yet the other parties still sit on their hands on these keys issues. Exactly this We’ve had 10 months of sound bites and podiums Labour are a disaster of false promises. Which is complete nonsense. Seriously, do some research and you will find out what they are doing. Maybe read my response 1 up from this and you might learn something. You do realise that Germany has changed some of their laws because of our influence? No, of course you don't. Really? As someone who spends half my time in Germany and Mrs is German, we both must have missed that. Scholtz's government collapsed not long after Labour came to power in the UK. So I would doubt any influence there. The new German government was only cobbled together in the last few weeks and has barely passed anything. I think they will have much more to think about than copying anything from Starmer's shit show. Unless you are talking about Germany considering a Rwanda type scheme which was mooted during the election campaign but dropped the day after the poll. Dec 2024 Germany has pledged to tighten its law to make it easier to prosecute people-smugglers enabling small-boat crossings to Britain, as the two countries signed a new deal aimed at tackling immigration crime. Berlin confirmed plans to reform its legal framework make it a clear criminal offence to “facilitate the smuggling of migrants to the UK” as part of the agreement, the Home Office said. You do realise that in Dec '24 Germany didn't have a government as such. At that time Scholtz was a caretaker chancellor in a minority just holding the fort until the February election. They could pledge and make plans for lots of things. Doesn't mean that any of it will ever happen. And as yet none of it has and probably never will. So, the issue is with the Germans rather than the Labour government. Got it! Missing the point...The Government is doing more than most people appear to want to hear or admit. No issue with the Germans at all. It was you that tried to use Germany as some way of defending the Labour party. The truth is that Germany hasn't been influenced by anything from the Labour party. Even the so called agreement cooked up by Scholtz and Starmer (along with Germany's Rwanda style idea) was nothing more than Scholtz trying to steal AFD's thunder a couple of months before an election. Trying to dress that up as some sort of victory for Starmer is a stretch that your average bungee jumper would be proud of. The agreement looked promising on paper, but its real-world impact has been delayed due to Germany’s internal political situation. How is that not an issue with the Germans?!
The victory is that Starmer is working closely with the Europeans to combat the issue we all face across the continent. They actually want to speak to him and sort it out.
That makes a significant difference to the Tories who weren't interested in working the Europe and wjust said we would send them to Rwanda despite the reality that Rwanda would only take about 200 a year. Or, Reform "we will just ditch the ECHR" approach which will obviously not work because you can't just drop these people back to where they came from either on french soil or in the likes of Afghanistan.
The agreement was promising on paper? LOL.
The only place it was promising was in Scholtz's SPD party (which is pretty much the German equivalent of Labour. Hmmm)
His back was against the wall polling in 3rd place with immigration as the top issue in an election that was only weeks away. He would have agreed to anything back then if he thought it would make him look tough. Different ball game now though eh!
Anyway, enough of Germany, you tried to use it in a bit of smoke and mirrors bluster to try and make Starmer look statesmanlike and I called you out on it.
As for the Europeans. They only want to talk to him about free movement for the under 30's and trying to bully him (easily done BTW) into giving up fishing rights so that Britain can help with their defence.
On anything else he's an irrelevance across the channel. "Fair points—no doubt Scholz was under massive pressure at the time, and yes, politics on both sides of the Channel always involve a degree of posturing, especially before elections. I agree that any agreement struck then was as much about optics as substance. My point was simply that the deal existed and was presented as a serious step—whether it was ever going to be delivered is another matter (and clearly, events proved it shaky). As for Starmer and Europe, it’s true there’s renewed talk about closer ties, especially on youth mobility and defense collaboration, but I’d argue the geopolitical climate (Ukraine, NATO dynamics) means no UK PM is entirely irrelevant to Europe’s security discussions—though yes, concessions are part of that dance. | |||
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"So far today Reform have gained 96 council seats; Labour lost 23, tories lost 75. " Anything useful to say other being running commentary?! | |||
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"So far today Reform have gained 96 council seats; Labour lost 23, tories lost 75. Where are those numbers from? Sky News are still showing Reform on +23." BBC have reform +154, Tories -122, labour -39 and lib Dems+18.. | |||
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"Lots of commentary on what the result means for Labour but look at the Tories. What Farage is doing is potentially existential for them." Someone earlier said that farage was a Thatcherite...in many people's opinion that makes him more Tory than the current conservative party | |||
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"Lots of commentary on what the result means for Labour but look at the Tories. What Farage is doing is potentially existential for them." Ah, but Jenrick says Badenoch has only been leader of the Tory party for 6 months and that isn't enough time to sort out the party given its popularity at the election. Yet, at the same time, he thinks Labour has had plenty of time to sort out the mess the Tories made of the country. | |||
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"So far today Reform have gained 96 council seats; Labour lost 23, tories lost 75. Where are those numbers from? Sky News are still showing Reform on +23. BBC have reform +154, Tories -122, labour -39 and lib Dems+18.." Yes I get it now. Sky are only showing results from fully declared councils but BBC are showing each seat as it comes in. It will all balance in the end. | |||
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"So far today Reform have gained 96 council seats; Labour lost 23, tories lost 75. Where are those numbers from? Sky News are still showing Reform on +23. BBC have reform +154, Tories -122, labour -39 and lib Dems+18.. Yes I get it now. Sky are only showing results from fully declared councils but BBC are showing each seat as it comes in. It will all balance in the end." It will.. The chatter will subside etc.. | |||
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"Starmer said they were elected as the party of change and they need to go further and faster on the changes people want to see. Starmer is delusional, it's his parties changes that brought about the support for Reform and despise for his party. WFA, PIP, IHT, business growth is being held back by the rise National Insurance, which has also contributed to stagnant private sector wages. The government has failed to deliver on GB Energy, imposed VAT on private education, and handed out above inflation pay rises across the public sector with no binding agreements for improved services. They lied about a £22 billion fiscal black hole, and Rachel Reeves flawed economic forecasting has wiped out any budget gains, resulting in higher debt repayments due to increased borrowing costs. The clock is ticking for Starmer. If he wants to salvage his leadership, his first move should be to show some backbone and remove Reeves." Dr Miatta Fahnbulleh for chancellor ? Far more qualified than Reeves the faked LinkedIn profiler | |||
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"Starmer said they were elected as the party of change and they need to go further and faster on the changes people want to see. Starmer is delusional, it's his parties changes that brought about the support for Reform and despise for his party. WFA, PIP, IHT, business growth is being held back by the rise National Insurance, which has also contributed to stagnant private sector wages. The government has failed to deliver on GB Energy, imposed VAT on private education, and handed out above inflation pay rises across the public sector with no binding agreements for improved services. They lied about a £22 billion fiscal black hole, and Rachel Reeves flawed economic forecasting has wiped out any budget gains, resulting in higher debt repayments due to increased borrowing costs. The clock is ticking for Starmer. If he wants to salvage his leadership, his first move should be to show some backbone and remove Reeves. Dr Miatta Fahnbulleh for chancellor ? Far more qualified than Reeves the faked LinkedIn profiler" Not a bad shout, but anyone other would be a step in the right direction. | |||
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"Let's look at the possibility of the next government being a Reform UK one with Farage as PM. The major pillar of the party appears to be to get rid of asylum seekers. What happens if this is done and nothing really improves for the working class? Next, it'll probably be - well we need to get rid of all immigrants. What happens if this doesn't work or badly backfires because much of our healthcare and other systems collapse? Will Reform UK work down a list of scapegoats? Next trade unionists, greens, sexual minorities, non-Christians... If this all fails they may eventually turn on the rich. And when they've completely run out of scapegoats and life still hasn't improved for the working class, they'll shrug and say gosh this politics malarkey is a bit more complicated than we thought. But by then society will have been hollowed out. How's the weather on Fantasy Island today ?" There was nothing fantasical about my post. Although a GE is probably four years away and lots could change before then, many Reform UK supporters seem to believe that it's inevitable that Reform will form the next government so it's reasonable to discuss the possibility. I was talking about Reform UK's policy positions, their possible consequences and how they might react if things do not go to plan. Perhaps you misunderstood and thought that rather than me asking if Reform would scapegoat trade unionists, greens, sexual minorities, non-Christians and eventually the rich, you imagined I was saying that they would exile such people? | |||
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"Let's look at the possibility of the next government being a Reform UK one with Farage as PM. The major pillar of the party appears to be to get rid of asylum seekers. What happens if this is done and nothing really improves for the working class? Next, it'll probably be - well we need to get rid of all immigrants. What happens if this doesn't work or badly backfires because much of our healthcare and other systems collapse? Will Reform UK work down a list of scapegoats? Next trade unionists, greens, sexual minorities, non-Christians... If this all fails they may eventually turn on the rich. And when they've completely run out of scapegoats and life still hasn't improved for the working class, they'll shrug and say gosh this politics malarkey is a bit more complicated than we thought. But by then society will have been hollowed out. How's the weather on Fantasy Island today ? There was nothing fantasical about my post. Although a GE is probably four years away and lots could change before then, many Reform UK supporters seem to believe that it's inevitable that Reform will form the next government so it's reasonable to discuss the possibility. I was talking about Reform UK's policy positions, their possible consequences and how they might react if things do not go to plan. Perhaps you misunderstood and thought that rather than me asking if Reform would scapegoat trade unionists, greens, sexual minorities, non-Christians and eventually the rich, you imagined I was saying that they would exile such people? " I think your summary of a Reform government is tad biased and leaning into the well trodden scaremongering territory that his opponents love to trot out. Criticism of his policies should be grounded in what’s actually being proposed not worst case hypotheticals. | |||
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"Let's look at the possibility of the next government being a Reform UK one with Farage as PM. The major pillar of the party appears to be to get rid of asylum seekers. What happens if this is done and nothing really improves for the working class? Next, it'll probably be - well we need to get rid of all immigrants. What happens if this doesn't work or badly backfires because much of our healthcare and other systems collapse? Will Reform UK work down a list of scapegoats? Next trade unionists, greens, sexual minorities, non-Christians... If this all fails they may eventually turn on the rich. And when they've completely run out of scapegoats and life still hasn't improved for the working class, they'll shrug and say gosh this politics malarkey is a bit more complicated than we thought. But by then society will have been hollowed out. How's the weather on Fantasy Island today ? There was nothing fantasical about my post. Although a GE is probably four years away and lots could change before then, many Reform UK supporters seem to believe that it's inevitable that Reform will form the next government so it's reasonable to discuss the possibility. I was talking about Reform UK's policy positions, their possible consequences and how they might react if things do not go to plan. Perhaps you misunderstood and thought that rather than me asking if Reform would scapegoat trade unionists, greens, sexual minorities, non-Christians and eventually the rich, you imagined I was saying that they would exile such people? I think your summary of a Reform government is tad biased and leaning into the well trodden scaremongering territory that his opponents love to trot out. Criticism of his policies should be grounded in what’s actually being proposed not worst case hypotheticals. " Reforms policies on immigration are pretty much those used by Labour and Conservative Governments for decades up until the 2000s, when both parties completely lost control of Britain's borders and who was living here. | |||
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"Let's look at the possibility of the next government being a Reform UK one with Farage as PM. The major pillar of the party appears to be to get rid of asylum seekers. What happens if this is done and nothing really improves for the working class? Next, it'll probably be - well we need to get rid of all immigrants. What happens if this doesn't work or badly backfires because much of our healthcare and other systems collapse? Will Reform UK work down a list of scapegoats? Next trade unionists, greens, sexual minorities, non-Christians... If this all fails they may eventually turn on the rich. And when they've completely run out of scapegoats and life still hasn't improved for the working class, they'll shrug and say gosh this politics malarkey is a bit more complicated than we thought. But by then society will have been hollowed out. How's the weather on Fantasy Island today ? There was nothing fantasical about my post. Although a GE is probably four years away and lots could change before then, many Reform UK supporters seem to believe that it's inevitable that Reform will form the next government so it's reasonable to discuss the possibility. I was talking about Reform UK's policy positions, their possible consequences and how they might react if things do not go to plan. Perhaps you misunderstood and thought that rather than me asking if Reform would scapegoat trade unionists, greens, sexual minorities, non-Christians and eventually the rich, you imagined I was saying that they would exile such people? " Their policies full of holes but so far today they have secured more seats than all the other parties combined with margin | |||
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"Is it not Reform UK policy to not allow people to claim asylum when inside the UK? Even though the only way to apply for asylum is to do so when in the UK. " Where did you get that information from? There is nothing in their manifesto that mentions the above. | |||
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"Is it not Reform UK policy to not allow people to claim asylum when inside the UK? Even though the only way to apply for asylum is to do so when in the UK. " Reform has a policy? | |||
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"Imagine these results if Starmer hadn't cancelled so many elections in areas where Reform is strong such as Essex and Kent. Easy to see now why he took that decision." So far today Labour have lost over double the number of seats they have hung on to. | |||
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"Imagine these results if Starmer hadn't cancelled so many elections in areas where Reform is strong such as Essex and Kent. Easy to see now why he took that decision." Very much so. The Conservatives have been hammered numerically. It's looking like they are going to lose between 600 and 700. But if you take the number of seats lost as a percentage of those being defended then Labour have done just as badly. Had more Labour seats been up for grabs they could have been looking at similar losses to the Tories. | |||
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"Imagine these results if Starmer hadn't cancelled so many elections in areas where Reform is strong such as Essex and Kent. Easy to see now why he took that decision." My mistake, not cancelled in Kent! But Norfolk, Suffolk, Essex and South Coast areas, all where Reform was already doing well. | |||
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"Where did you get that information from? There is nothing in their manifesto that mentions the above." This is from the Reform UK 2024 manifesto... "Stop the Boats with our 6 Point Plan. Recognise a national Security Threat. Leave the European Convention on Human Rights: Zero Illegal Immigrants to be Resettled in the UK; Offshore Processing for Illegal Arrivals; New Department of Immigration; Pick up Migrants out of Boats and Take Back to France. (We are legally allowed to do this under international treaties)." So the only way to apply for asylum would be to get a tourist or similar visa and as far as I know it's almost impossible for a refugee to get a tourist visa. If Reform UK made it clear that people entering the UK by irregular means could apply for asylum until offshore processing and asylum visas existed then I wouldn't be as concerned. Also leaving the ECHR would have negative impact on all our rights. | |||
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"Where did you get that information from? There is nothing in their manifesto that mentions the above. This is from the Reform UK 2024 manifesto... "Stop the Boats with our 6 Point Plan. Recognise a national Security Threat. Leave the European Convention on Human Rights: Zero Illegal Immigrants to be Resettled in the UK; Offshore Processing for Illegal Arrivals; New Department of Immigration; Pick up Migrants out of Boats and Take Back to France. (We are legally allowed to do this under international treaties)." So the only way to apply for asylum would be to get a tourist or similar visa and as far as I know it's almost impossible for a refugee to get a tourist visa. If Reform UK made it clear that people entering the UK by irregular means could apply for asylum until offshore processing and asylum visas existed then I wouldn't be as concerned. Also leaving the ECHR would have negative impact on all our rights. " I see you’re not being entirely accurate in how you interpret the policy. The Reform position is that anyone entering the UK illegally would be processed offshore, that’s not the same as saying genuine asylum seekers would be denied asylum. There’s nothing in the manifesto that states those with valid claims wouldn’t be granted refugee status following due process. Your concerns about leaving the ECHR, you’re assuming that such a move would come with no replacement legislation. That’s you being speculative. The ECHR has overruled UK court decisions on matters where many believe our own legal system is better placed to judge. This is a sovereignty issue, and personally, I trust our judiciary to uphold rights without external oversight. What specific rights do you believe would be lost if we left the ECHR, aside from the ability to appeal again after exhausting our already robust legal system? | |||
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"Worth remembering that Reform didn't even contest the last Council Elections, is now forecast to get 38% of vote. It is a quite extraordinary success and a game changer for Britain politics - they've broken the two party system in one election which the Lib Dems/Liberals have been trying to do for decades." Labour worst performance on record Tories score lowest-ever | |||
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"Worth remembering that Reform didn't even contest the last Council Elections, is now forecast to get 38% of vote. It is a quite extraordinary success and a game changer for Britain politics - they've broken the two party system in one election which the Lib Dems/Liberals have been trying to do for decades." They are understanding and representing what a vast number of people want in this country, a national identity and to start putting us first. The other parties are too concerned about upsetting people and groups that they dither and quite frankly put national identity down as something that shouldn't be of concern, that it will all simply workout. | |||
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"Worth remembering that Reform didn't even contest the last Council Elections, is now forecast to get 38% of vote. It is a quite extraordinary success and a game changer for Britain politics - they've broken the two party system in one election which the Lib Dems/Liberals have been trying to do for decades. Labour worst performance on record Tories score lowest-ever" I do think it's a worse election for Tories/Badenoch than Starmer and Labour. Their collapse from 2019 success is astonishing, and totally self inflicted. | |||
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"I see you’re not being entirely accurate in how you interpret the policy. The Reform position is that anyone entering the UK illegally would be processed offshore, that’s not the same as saying genuine asylum seekers would be denied asylum. There’s nothing in the manifesto that states those with valid claims wouldn’t be granted refugee status following due process. Your concerns about leaving the ECHR, you’re assuming that such a move would come with no replacement legislation. That’s you being speculative. The ECHR has overruled UK court decisions on matters where many believe our own legal system is better placed to judge. This is a sovereignty issue, and personally, I trust our judiciary to uphold rights without external oversight. What specific rights do you believe would be lost if we left the ECHR, aside from the ability to appeal again after exhausting our already robust legal system" As I've already said there are no such things as offshore processing or asylum visas. Yet as far as I know Reform want to "stop the boats" now, not in some hypothetical future. On the ECHR as well as ratifying it in 1951, we incorporated it into UK law in the Human Rights Act 1998. If we left the ECHR we'd be leaving a convention followed by 45 other states and the only other country that left was Greece in 1970 when they were under military dictatorship, they rejoined four years later. Russia was expelled in 2022. The ECHR acts as a safety net so that the kind of horrors that happened in WWII are at least theoretically more difficult to replicate. Many people do not seem to realise that the descent of Germany was achieved through democratic means. Without the ECHR the UK government could pass just about any leglistation it likes providing it has enough votes. Would any of us want a future government that could establish laws that effectively gave it unlimited powers? | |||
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"I see you’re not being entirely accurate in how you interpret the policy. The Reform position is that anyone entering the UK illegally would be processed offshore, that’s not the same as saying genuine asylum seekers would be denied asylum. There’s nothing in the manifesto that states those with valid claims wouldn’t be granted refugee status following due process. Your concerns about leaving the ECHR, you’re assuming that such a move would come with no replacement legislation. That’s you being speculative. The ECHR has overruled UK court decisions on matters where many believe our own legal system is better placed to judge. This is a sovereignty issue, and personally, I trust our judiciary to uphold rights without external oversight. What specific rights do you believe would be lost if we left the ECHR, aside from the ability to appeal again after exhausting our already robust legal system As I've already said there are no such things as offshore processing or asylum visas. Yet as far as I know Reform want to "stop the boats" now, not in some hypothetical future. On the ECHR as well as ratifying it in 1951, we incorporated it into UK law in the Human Rights Act 1998. If we left the ECHR we'd be leaving a convention followed by 45 other states and the only other country that left was Greece in 1970 when they were under military dictatorship, they rejoined four years later. Russia was expelled in 2022. The ECHR acts as a safety net so that the kind of horrors that happened in WWII are at least theoretically more difficult to replicate. Many people do not seem to realise that the descent of Germany was achieved through democratic means. Without the ECHR the UK government could pass just about any leglistation it likes providing it has enough votes. Would any of us want a future government that could establish laws that effectively gave it unlimited powers?" You have hit the nail on the head without knowing it.... The fact that an outside court can interfere with our countries decisions is not what people want. There is no need to bring German past wrongs into this, that is amplifying the scaremongering, keep it simple and you will see why Reform are now the voice of the people. People voted Brexit, they wanted a lot of change, they wanted control to come back and a national identity restored. The media and opponents to Brexit used race as the reason people were voting to leave the EU. The reasons went far beyond the EU trading bloc, as I have said people want sovereignty and identity, no party can cope with that requirement for fear of the upset it would cause and their inept ways of dealing with hard subjects. Those are my thoughts on Reforms popularity, I too could be looking through the wrong lens, but I don't think I am. | |||
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"Also by election in Runcorn, safe Labour seat but Reform could go close. Reform will likely win Runcorn Usual protest vote against the incumbent government etc, doesn’t bode well after only one year of Starmer’s Labour. I hope Reform do well generally tbh, they have the aura of rats in a sack, with plenty of skeletons in the cupboard. Would be good to start getting more of their ilk under the spotlight. I don't think they (Reform) will win personally. Labour had a big majority less than a year ago which would be very difficult to overcome but expect the majority to be reduced by quite a bit. If Reform are a clear second place they can claim good progress and Labour can still claim the seat Reform sound confident they will win. Result about 3am for you insomniacs." Well hands up, my prediction was completely wrong. I though the size of the Labour majority in the by election was to much to overcome but by the narrowest of margins they managed it | |||
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"You have hit the nail on the head without knowing it.... The fact that an outside court can interfere with our countries decisions is not what people want. There is no need to bring German past wrongs into this, that is amplifying the scaremongering, keep it simple and you will see why Reform are now the voice of the people. People voted Brexit, they wanted a lot of change, they wanted control to come back and a national identity restored. The media and opponents to Brexit used race as the reason people were voting to leave the EU. The reasons went far beyond the EU trading bloc, as I have said people want sovereignty and identity, no party can cope with that requirement for fear of the upset it would cause and their inept ways of dealing with hard subjects. Those are my thoughts on Reforms popularity, I too could be looking through the wrong lens, but I don't think I am. " It sounds like you are saying that Brexit and Reform are based on a sort of watered-down version of identitarianism. Maybe that is part of it, but I think much of it is just people being p*ssed off with the status quo. Some form of PR would be better than FPTP so that people who are concerned about things like national identity could feel that they were more fairly represented in Parliament. | |||
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"You have hit the nail on the head without knowing it.... The fact that an outside court can interfere with our countries decisions is not what people want. There is no need to bring German past wrongs into this, that is amplifying the scaremongering, keep it simple and you will see why Reform are now the voice of the people. People voted Brexit, they wanted a lot of change, they wanted control to come back and a national identity restored. The media and opponents to Brexit used race as the reason people were voting to leave the EU. The reasons went far beyond the EU trading bloc, as I have said people want sovereignty and identity, no party can cope with that requirement for fear of the upset it would cause and their inept ways of dealing with hard subjects. Those are my thoughts on Reforms popularity, I too could be looking through the wrong lens, but I don't think I am. It sounds like you are saying that Brexit and Reform are based on a sort of watered-down version of identitarianism. Maybe that is part of it, but I think much of it is just people being p*ssed off with the status quo. Some form of PR would be better than FPTP so that people who are concerned about things like national identity could feel that they were more fairly represented in Parliament. " Not quite, it’s more about sovereignty, accountability, and cultural confidence (for want of a better phrase) than exclusion. People are tired of being told that national identity and border control are far right fascist ideals. That’s why Reform is winning it is speaking plainly to the people, those same people the major parties either dismiss or tiptoe around. | |||
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"You have hit the nail on the head without knowing it.... The fact that an outside court can interfere with our countries decisions is not what people want. There is no need to bring German past wrongs into this, that is amplifying the scaremongering, keep it simple and you will see why Reform are now the voice of the people. People voted Brexit, they wanted a lot of change, they wanted control to come back and a national identity restored. The media and opponents to Brexit used race as the reason people were voting to leave the EU. The reasons went far beyond the EU trading bloc, as I have said people want sovereignty and identity, no party can cope with that requirement for fear of the upset it would cause and their inept ways of dealing with hard subjects. Those are my thoughts on Reforms popularity, I too could be looking through the wrong lens, but I don't think I am. It sounds like you are saying that Brexit and Reform are based on a sort of watered-down version of identitarianism. Maybe that is part of it, but I think much of it is just people being p*ssed off with the status quo. Some form of PR would be better than FPTP so that people who are concerned about things like national identity could feel that they were more fairly represented in Parliament. Not quite, it’s more about sovereignty, accountability, and cultural confidence (for want of a better phrase) than exclusion. People are tired of being told that national identity and border control are far right fascist ideals. That’s why Reform is winning it is speaking plainly to the people, those same people the major parties either dismiss or tiptoe around." Very well put. | |||
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"Fascinating result in Cornwall with Reform, Lib Dems and Independents dominating. Lab and Cons almost wiped out." Karma, labour and cons felled all our city centre trees | |||
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"it’s more about sovereignty, accountability, and cultural confidence " Rubbish, GB businesses are rule takers even more than before now. They have to comply with all the EU requirements to export to the EU. But now the UK government has got no votes at all in what the rules are anymore. That's just one example. Accountability? The EU has plenty of that. That's what the European Parliament and the EU courts and the national parliaments are for. Cultural confidence? The EU protects regional identities. That's what the food origin labels are for, and Creative Europe, and City of Culture... Lots of stuff. Even help for wildlife areas, Natura 2000. | |||
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"Not quite, it’s more about sovereignty, accountability, and cultural confidence (for want of a better phrase) than exclusion. People are tired of being told that national identity and border control are far right fascist ideals. That’s why Reform is winning it is speaking plainly to the people, those same people the major parties either dismiss or tiptoe around." Cultural confidence is an odd expression, perhaps you could expand on what you mean by that. I'm not trying to argue that Brexit or Reform supporters are on the far-right. I've had plenty of conversations with people about this and it's generally down to a sense of frustration and an optimism that a simple policy like reducing immigration might make life better. There might be some people on the fringes who are far-right but if so they are a small minority. For me what matters are my freedoms, my protections and my responsibilities. I suppose you could call this a sense of personal sovereignty. So Brexit reduced my sovereignty rather than increased it because it stripped away my EU citizenship and it means I no longer have freedoms that I had taken for granted most of my life. So far I haven't lost any protections but as time goes by I might as generally speaking the EU has been quite progressive on things like consumer, data and environmental protection. My responsibilities probably won't change much as there is close alignment on personal reponsibilites. Should the UK leave the ECHR though, I will see this as a grave loss of protection as the UK government will no longer be bound by norms that have been accepted throughout Europe since before I was born. On accountability there is an inevitable loss of say as group decisions are made by more and more people but I think this can be handled by blending devolution with centralism so that decisions are made at appropriate levels of granuality. In terms of justice I would prefer to be judged by a larger body than a smaller one as bias is more likely in smaller groups. | |||
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"If Starmer wants to stay leader of the labour party he needs to get rid of Reeves, Rayner and Miliband sooner rather than later. He knows the direction and tone these 3 have taken are destroying the country, especially Reeves. Starmer looks weak, and will be treated as such." You make an art form of nonsense. | |||
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"If Starmer wants to stay leader of the labour party he needs to get rid of Reeves, Rayner and Miliband sooner rather than later. He knows the direction and tone these 3 have taken are destroying the country, especially Reeves. Starmer looks weak, and will be treated as such. You make an art form of nonsense." Eh ? | |||
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" The fact that an outside court can interfere with our countries decisions is not what people want. " . Which is fine if they wish to handle untrammelled power and decision-making to their own government. . I however do not feel that is a wise idea in the slightest. . There must be accountability, and not just to the electorate every 4-5 years, but to an external authority who can step in and say to a government, "No. This is not right...because." . Eu Nations have individual sovereignty, but they have agreed to share some of their sovereignty through the EU's institutions. . This is good governance and oversight, and essential in lessening or preventing abuses of their citizenry. | |||
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" The fact that an outside court can interfere with our countries decisions is not what people want. . Which is fine if they wish to handle untrammelled power and decision-making to their own government. . I however do not feel that is a wise idea in the slightest. . There must be accountability, and not just to the electorate every 4-5 years, but to an external authority who can step in and say to a government, "No. This is not right...because." . Eu Nations have individual sovereignty, but they have agreed to share some of their sovereignty through the EU's institutions. . This is good governance and oversight, and essential in lessening or preventing abuses of their citizenry. " So what do we do if this external authority is abusing its power? How do we get rid of it or change it? If the EU is such a great example of governance and accountability, why has nobody else done it? Why is the EU’s economic performance so dismal? That isn’t helping its “citizenry”. How would you feel about an external authority that’s main aim was to ensure that all countries adhere to principles of free market capitalism, zero immigration, minimal state involvement in people’s lives, and low taxation? Would that be acceptable? | |||
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"BBC website and News night leading on some nonsense about Prince Harry ! " How convenient and predictable. | |||
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"So Brexit reduced my sovereignty rather than increased it because it stripped away my EU citizenship and it means I no longer have freedoms that I had taken for granted most of my life." EU citizenship and freedom of movement were created Treaty of Maastricht in 1992, so you only had those rights for 28 years. That's not "most of your life". | |||
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"BBC website and News night leading on some nonsense about Prince Harry ! How convenient and predictable." Yes, Harry was a very convenient distraction. The BBC went full on with it for a good while, just as most of the results were coming in. You'd have thought there hadn't been an election. Sky weren't much better. | |||
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" The fact that an outside court can interfere with our countries decisions is not what people want. . Which is fine if they wish to handle untrammelled power and decision-making to their own government. . I however do not feel that is a wise idea in the slightest. . There must be accountability, and not just to the electorate every 4-5 years, but to an external authority who can step in and say to a government, "No. This is not right...because." . Eu Nations have individual sovereignty, but they have agreed to share some of their sovereignty through the EU's institutions. . This is good governance and oversight, and essential in lessening or preventing abuses of their citizenry. " It is surprising and unfortunate you know so little about Britain's history and the central role of Parliamentary Sovereignty. | |||
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"BBC website and News night leading on some nonsense about Prince Harry ! How convenient and predictable." It was embarrassingly obvious. | |||
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"Labour and Tories lost 2/3rds of the seats they were defending 677 of 1602 seats (42%) secured by Reform This is what happens when you pick the pockets of farmers, pensioners and the disabled. Another record 1878 arrived in small boats this week on top of the 10,000 ytd reported a fortnight ago, despite ‘smash the gangs’ big talk " The new slogan is 'House The Gangs'. | |||
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"So Brexit reduced my sovereignty rather than increased it because it stripped away my EU citizenship and it means I no longer have freedoms that I had taken for granted most of my life. EU citizenship and freedom of movement were created Treaty of Maastricht in 1992, so you only had those rights for 28 years. That's not "most of your life"." A very good example of what NotMe referred to as 'cultural confidence', in this case a complete absence and the belief that anything not British must be superior. | |||
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"Labour and Tories lost 2/3rds of the seats they were defending 677 of 1602 seats (42%) secured by Reform This is what happens when you pick the pockets of farmers, pensioners and the disabled. Another record 1878 arrived in small boats this week on top of the 10,000 ytd reported a fortnight ago, despite ‘smash the gangs’ big talk The new slogan is 'House The Gangs'."
"Smash the gangs" itself was as a slogan that Keir shamelessly stole from the supreme leader Priti Patel. At least she posted some action videos on twitter showing her going along with police to arrest the gangs. Wild times! | |||
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"So Brexit reduced my sovereignty rather than increased it because it stripped away my EU citizenship and it means I no longer have freedoms that I had taken for granted most of my life. EU citizenship and freedom of movement were created Treaty of Maastricht in 1992, so you only had those rights for 28 years. That's not "most of your life"." Freedom of movement began in 1968 when EEC 1612/68 came into force, but UK citzens couldn't take advantage of this until Jan 1973 when we joined the EEC. 1973 to 2020 is 47 years, so Brexit did remove a freedom that I had taken for granted for most of my life. | |||
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"So Brexit reduced my sovereignty rather than increased it because it stripped away my EU citizenship and it means I no longer have freedoms that I had taken for granted most of my life. EU citizenship and freedom of movement were created Treaty of Maastricht in 1992, so you only had those rights for 28 years. That's not "most of your life". Freedom of movement began in 1968 when EEC 1612/68 came into force, but UK citzens couldn't take advantage of this until Jan 1973 when we joined the EEC. 1973 to 2020 is 47 years, so Brexit did remove a freedom that I had taken for granted for most of my life. " Things change in politics when there’s an election or a referendum. Not everyone wanted to join the EEC back in the 70s. I was too young to understand it and I’m guessing you were too. But we both had to live with the result. Same goes for general and council elections. Labour wanna tax and spend and some people agree with that. Some don’t. But the ones who don’t have to live with the result, just as much as the ones that do. Personally I think Brexit got totally screwed up by everyone. It was miss-sold by both sides before the vote and the negotiations were fucked up by both sides after the vote. But we all have to live with that regardless of if we agree or not. Sure, campaign to rejoin if that floats your boat, and i’d be all in favour of a re negotiation of the Brexit deal that was agreed with the EU as I don’t think it was done in good faith by either side. But until then, we live with what we have | |||
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"So Brexit reduced my sovereignty rather than increased it because it stripped away my EU citizenship and it means I no longer have freedoms that I had taken for granted most of my life. EU citizenship and freedom of movement were created Treaty of Maastricht in 1992, so you only had those rights for 28 years. That's not "most of your life". Freedom of movement began in 1968 when EEC 1612/68 came into force, but UK citzens couldn't take advantage of this until Jan 1973 when we joined the EEC. 1973 to 2020 is 47 years, so Brexit did remove a freedom that I had taken for granted for most of my life. " Yes, it was a freedom we enjoyed until the right became abused by bogus asylum seekers, people trafficking gangs and cynical human rights lawyers. So thanks to that Holy Trinity we are all worse off, and our elected representatives did nothing. | |||
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"So Brexit reduced my sovereignty rather than increased it because it stripped away my EU citizenship and it means I no longer have freedoms that I had taken for granted most of my life. EU citizenship and freedom of movement were created Treaty of Maastricht in 1992, so you only had those rights for 28 years. That's not "most of your life". Freedom of movement began in 1968 when EEC 1612/68 came into force, but UK citzens couldn't take advantage of this until Jan 1973 when we joined the EEC. 1973 to 2020 is 47 years, so Brexit did remove a freedom that I had taken for granted for most of my life. " So where is it you want to go now that you aren’t able to? I travel quite extensively around the world and I’ve never really found going anywhere particularly difficult. Some places need an advance form completing, some not. As a British citizen it is generally pretty easy to move around foreign countries. The main thing that has made my life easier is the automation of bag drops and passport checks. That’s been of far more use in speeding up my mobility than any EU or non EU border controls or “free movement” schemes. Maybe you need to look beyond the EU. The world doesn’t stop at the Mediterranean. | |||
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"So Brexit reduced my sovereignty rather than increased it because it stripped away my EU citizenship and it means I no longer have freedoms that I had taken for granted most of my life. EU citizenship and freedom of movement were created Treaty of Maastricht in 1992, so you only had those rights for 28 years. That's not "most of your life". Freedom of movement began in 1968 when EEC 1612/68 came into force, but UK citzens couldn't take advantage of this until Jan 1973 when we joined the EEC. 1973 to 2020 is 47 years, so Brexit did remove a freedom that I had taken for granted for most of my life. So where is it you want to go now that you aren’t able to? I travel quite extensively around the world and I’ve never really found going anywhere particularly difficult. Some places need an advance form completing, some not. As a British citizen it is generally pretty easy to move around foreign countries. The main thing that has made my life easier is the automation of bag drops and passport checks. That’s been of far more use in speeding up my mobility than any EU or non EU border controls or “free movement” schemes. Maybe you need to look beyond the EU. The world doesn’t stop at the Mediterranean." Working or living in the rest of the EU always involved a lot of bureaucracy, private health insurance and huge local protectionism of employment. The 'freedoms' were mostly a fiction in practice. | |||
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"My earlier post was trying to explain what I think of as personal sovereignty - freedoms and protections on the one hand and responsibilities on the other. To me this is more important than national sovereignty which is about government. So to some people Brexit has been and leaving the ECHR would be positive because it would increase national sovereignty but to me these decrease my personal sovereignty and give more power to a government which most people who are pro-Brexit and for leaving the ECHR spend a great deal of time complaining about. " When you were in EU, you still had a different institution have power over you - The EU. And your power to influence British politics is much higher than your power to influence EU | |||
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"Farage is now in a position to influence the direction of both Labour and the Conservatives. Just as he did with forcing a referendum and Brexit, he is achieving his aims without needing to hold power. Both parties will be forced to react the threat of a hung parliament alone is enough to keep them on edge. Whether you love or loath him, Farage has been one of the most influential political figures in Britain over the past 25 years. He is an excellent strategist who consistently outmanoeuvres the big 2 parties, and the fact they still haven’t learnt how to minimise his influence is staggering." He is by far the most important British politician of the last 20 years. | |||
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"So Brexit reduced my sovereignty rather than increased it because it stripped away my EU citizenship and it means I no longer have freedoms that I had taken for granted most of my life." "EU citizenship and freedom of movement were created Treaty of Maastricht in 1992, so you only had those rights for 28 years. That's not "most of your life"." "Freedom of movement began in 1968 when EEC 1612/68 came into force, but UK citzens couldn't take advantage of this until Jan 1973 when we joined the EEC." "1973 to 2020 is 47 years, so Brexit did remove a freedom that I had taken for granted for most of my life." The EEC only had freedom of movement for workers. You still had to apply for a visa, it only applied to whichever country issued it, and you could be refused entry if that country decided not to like you. It wasn't at all the same as the actual freedom of movement that we got in 1992. | |||
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