Join us FREE, we're FREE to use
Web's largest swingers site since 2006.
Already registered?
Login here
Join us FREE, we're FREE to use
Web's largest swingers site since 2006.
Already registered?
Login here
 | Back to forum list |
| Back to Politics |
| Jump to newest |  |
| |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
| |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
| |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
| |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
| |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
| |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
" Had Christians attempted autonomy in the Middle East, in the same way that Jews had, they undoubtedly would have suffered similar trouble - which can be demonstrated by the way they are treated in other Arabised/Islamised countries." There are (or were) plenty of Christian Arabs. Arabised might not be the correct term you're looking for. | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"Arabised might not be the correct term you're looking for." It was exactly the word I was looking for. Arabs originally come from the Arabian Peninsula - they culture was imported during the Islamic conquests of the Levant in the 7th century - which led to forced conversions, expulsions, executions and the introduction of 'dhimmi' status. I would say that, while we call them Arabs, they are not really Arabs in the truest sense of the word - the Christian groups in the Levant prior to that were influenced and moulded to fit in with their new overlords. Some people will argue that Jews could not be Arabs, but there is still a crossover - for example, many Jews of the Old Yishuv (pre Zionism) spoke Arabic as their sole language before the resurrection of Hebrew as their main language. | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
| |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"There are fewer than 150 Catholics in Gaza - it's not exactly a thriving minority group. When it comes to Islam-controlled territories, Christians and Jews are considered 'dhimmi' - basically a protected 'people of the book' but only if they accept their place as inferior to Muslims. Had Christians attempted autonomy in the Middle East, in the same way that Jews had, they undoubtedly would have suffered similar trouble - which can be demonstrated by the way they are treated in other Arabised/Islamised countries." Even less with IDF snipers killing them deliberately with bullets | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"Even less with IDF snipers killing them deliberately with bullets " If you're talking about recent events, the IDF deny responsibility - and looking at the track record, they do have a history of admitting when they have been at fault. However, they do claim that Hamas were operating (and being targeted) in the area, and considering their record for embedding themselves amongst civilians, this is entirely feasible. Nevertheless, war is shit, civilians get killed - there is not a single conflict in history where they hasn't been a civilian casualty, and this one is no different. As the belligerent, it is Hamas who is responsible for this. | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"Even less with IDF snipers killing them deliberately with bullets If you're talking about recent events, the IDF deny responsibility - and looking at the track record, they do have a history of admitting when they have been at fault. However, they do claim that Hamas were operating (and being targeted) in the area, and considering their record for embedding themselves amongst civilians, this is entirely feasible. Nevertheless, war is shit, civilians get killed - there is not a single conflict in history where they hasn't been a civilian casualty, and this one is no different. As the belligerent, it is Hamas who is responsible for this." Oh dear, someone has tunnel vision. | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"Oh dear, someone has tunnel vision. " Would you like a history lesson? | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"Even less with IDF snipers killing them deliberately with bullets If you're talking about recent events, the IDF deny responsibility - and looking at the track record, they do have a history of admitting when they have been at fault. However, they do claim that Hamas were operating (and being targeted) in the area, and considering their record for embedding themselves amongst civilians, this is entirely feasible. Nevertheless, war is shit, civilians get killed - there is not a single conflict in history where they hasn't been a civilian casualty, and this one is no different. As the belligerent, it is Hamas who is responsible for this." Hahaha admitting when their fault ??haha how many versions of ambulance attack before accepted version? 1, 2 3 revisions? Hahaha you are funny | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"Oh dear, someone has tunnel vision. Would you like a history lesson? " Spare the electricity and your keyboard typing your version of history. It will be worth nothing | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"Even less with IDF snipers killing them deliberately with bullets If you're talking about recent events, the IDF deny responsibility - and looking at the track record, they do have a history of admitting when they have been at fault. However, they do claim that Hamas were operating (and being targeted) in the area, and considering their record for embedding themselves amongst civilians, this is entirely feasible. Nevertheless, war is shit, civilians get killed - there is not a single conflict in history where they hasn't been a civilian casualty, and this one is no different. As the belligerent, it is Hamas who is responsible for this." When did Hamas start existing? | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
" When did Hamas start existing?" 1987 | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"Oh dear, someone has tunnel vision. Would you like a history lesson? Spare the electricity and your keyboard typing your version of history. It will be worth nothing" Well I am yet to meet a pro-Palestine supporter who isn't hideously misinformed. | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
| |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"Whow some of the opinions on here are utterly sickening. " Then maybe you need to become more informed. Let's take a look at your bullshit. "Gazas borders have been closed for seven weeks. There's nothing left in the food warehouses and the charities are not allowed in." Sadly this is at the hands of Hamas who started this war, and failed to end it. Additionally, Hamas was appropriating supplies to feed their soldiers. Did you see starving Arabs parading coffins during the hostage hand-overs, or did you see starving, emaciated hostages? Think back. "18months of watching a genocide develop into a Holocaust " 50,000 dead out of a population of 2 million is not a genocide, unless you wish to redefine the meaning of the word. Considering that many of the dead are Hamas militants, the civilian death toll is low. Think of it this way, if 70% of the buildings have been destroyed, you'd think that more people would be dead - but they're not, because Israel is one of the only nations who give evacuation warnings before they strike. Not perfect, but better. "Can we just clarify the IDF are not Jewish, they claim to be. " Yes, they are Jewish (or at least the majority are - there are Israeli Arabs and Druzes serving in the IDF too. To say they're not real Jews is just ludicrous. What I think you're suggesting is that they're the wrong type of Jew - a common theme amongst some people. "Israel is a colonial project, their army made up of conscripts trying to prove their jewishness and the industrial military complex." Now you're getting into conspiracy territory - Israel, also Eretz Yisrael, also Judea, formerly the Kingdoms of Israel and Judah, is literally the birthplace of Judaism. It's where the word Jew comes from - telling Jews they cannot live in Judea is like telling Greeks they cannot live in Greece. When Zionists first started to purchase land and move back from Europe, they didn't take their European languages, they didn't plant European flags. This is entirely different from any other form of modern colonialism. It's a land-back movement - an indigenous group finding safety in their own ancestral homeland. But, even if your nonsense were true, every other country on this planet is a result of colonisation - so, why single out the World's ONLY Jewish state, unless you hate Jews? "To claim 'propaganda from both sides' is utterly devastating. Because Gaza and the citizen journalists haven't been generating propaganda, they've been filming their hospitals, shattered homes, bodies of lost souls." It's called Pallywood - Arabs have been claiming victimhood ever since they started the 1947 civil war, 1948 war and every war since. "Hamas figures have consistently been checked and verified by every charity and ngo going and have always been found to be accurate." The figures have been revised down several times over. They've even discovered Hamas counting regular deaths in the casualty figures. But, this goes back to the earlier point - people die in wars, which is tragic - but let's not forget who started this (and every war and attack on Jews in the region since the early twentieth century). "The only inaccuracy is that during this atrocity you have to have 70kg of human flesh for it to be counted as an adult, there has to be a body to be counted as dead. Why do you think after a strike they continue to strike the same area? Why all the equipment to save people from the rubble has been destroyed.. it you can retrieve them, you can't count them" This is not something I have heard before, but 1. there is a massive tunnel network under Gaza, and 2. when terrorists use civilian infrastructure, it makes it a legitimate target. "They want the oil... They want the coast and 18months in... Ignorant people will still claim 'propaganda from both sides'" They do not need a war to do this - they already had control of the waters. Or are you suggesting that the Hamas attack of 2023 was all part of it too? Regardless of this, I would rather the oil be under the control of democratic Israel than a nutjob terrorist proxy of Iran. Legally speaking, no mandate has ever replaced the British Mandate - which means that the disputed areas of Gaza and Judea and Samaria (The West Bank) are technically Israeli territory, which is why the map is marked out with a dotted line rather than a proper border. Until Arabs accept that Israel is a legitimate state and a homeland for Jews where they are not considered dhimmi, then there will always be wars. | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"Hahaha admitting when their fault ??haha how many versions of ambulance attack before accepted version? 1, 2 3 revisions? Hahaha you are funny" It's a war, shit happens in wars - Israel has a code of conduct, which, when breached they get held to account. It is absolutely right that accountability is taken for the Ambulance fiasco - but Palestinian Arabs have been using ambulances for cover since the first Intifada. Do tell me about the Hamas code of conduct and how their fighters are held to account? | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
| |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"As a Palestinian I don’t know what the world really expects of us I never heard if Palestinians have the right to defend themselves forget Gaza for a minute look at the West Bank they build statements on our land and if we try to defend we called terror if I have learned anything from the Iraq war Libya Sudan Ukraine is that the strong and powerful do as they like and it’s always the poor people trying to get by that pay the price no lord or priest or imam is going or sending there kids to die it’s the working class from all over the world it’s crazy " It was your predecessors who refused to share, who attacked first, who didn't want 'dhimmi' to have autonomy in their ancestral homeland. It was your predecessors who were willing to sell land to Jews, but then complained about it afterwards. It was your predecessors who benefited from Jews solving the malaria problem, building infrastructure, creating jobs, but still you were wound up by it, because they were Jews. It was your predecessors who followed the lead of Haj Amin Al Husseini when he sided with Hitler, stayed in Berlin and broadcast messages for Arabs to kill Jews. It was your predecessors who started shooting Jews on the road to Jerusalem, leading to civil war. In this country people say 'refugees welcome', but in mandate Palestine, Jewish refugees were told to fuck off. You reap what you sow. | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
| |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
| |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
| |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
| |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"As a Palestinian I don’t know what the world really expects of us... " The world expects very little. Unfortunately, most of the world doesn't see Palestinians as real people. They see Palestinians as characters in a drama whose role it is to suffer. Trauma porn. Women screaming at funerals. Faces filled with anguish. A better question: what did Egypt and Jordan expect of you between 1947 and 1967? You were part-occupied, part-annexed. No talk of Palestinian statehood, because they were carving up a post-Jewish Israel into their own territories. What they (admitted that) expected was that you would become a political pawn that would destabilise Israel. Look to the treatment of Palestinians by Jordan, Lebanon, Kuwait, Egypt. People who have lived there for decades and generations are not accepted as citizens, in some cases despite having local citizens as family. Why? Because there is a huge interest in keeping Israel's feet to the fire. That is what is expected of you. Palestinians are seen by the world as having no agency - you are victims who exist to demonise colonisers (see a few posts above) - without Israel, your same suffering would be as invisible as the deaths and torture in Sudan, China, Afghanistan, Yemen, etc. But since Israel exists, your role is magnified. You asked what the world expects - there, you have it. " ...if I have learned anything from the Iraq war Libya Sudan Ukraine is that the strong and powerful do as they like and it’s always the poor people trying to get by that pay the price no lord or priest or imam is going or sending there kids to die it’s the working class from all over the world it’s crazy " You are not the first to observe this, nor will you be the last. Look at the wealth squirreled away by most of the leaders. It's ridiculous. | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
| |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"Complete 20th century disaster this has been. A monumental f**k up in British foreign policy. The Brits still had plenty of pink on the map. Should have gave the Jews the Falklands or somewhere else less contentious instead. Would have only upset a handful of farmers & sheep The remigration of a people en masse after 2000 years was always going to cause big problems. May as well give the USA, NZ & Australia back to the indigenous as well eh? Fairs fair." This is based on an assumption that Britain created Israel and gave it to the Jews, it did not. Political Zionism was already several decades old when Britain conquered the Ottoman Empire - and even without that, a Jewish majority had been restored to Jerusalem for several decades before that. The Balfour Declaration was not legally binding until the start of the Mandate in 1923, and it was the League of Nations that decided upon this. It wasn't Britain who gave the land to the Jews, it was already their land - while populations waxed and waned (not helped by expulsions and conquests) there had been a continuous, unbroken presence in the region for three thousand years. It is literally the place where their culture was formed - and it is entirely feasible that political Zionism would have succeeded whether Britain was involved or not. Then, as soon as Britain was given the mandate, they did everything they could to make it as difficult as possible - like installing Haj Amin Al Husseini as Grand Mufti (later to ally himself with Hitler) and limiting Jewish immigration while opening the doors to Arab immigration. Not many people know that Britain interred 55,000 Jews in camps in Cyprus rather than allow them into Palestine - because they were scared that this would upset the Arabs too much, and there was a big risk of them siding with the Nazis as a result. Then, moving forwards, it was the Jordanian Arab Legion, under the command of Britain's John Bagot 'Pasha' Glubb, who was a major aggressor in the 1948 Arab-Israeli war - while Britain stood back and refused to vote on the Partition Plan. I agree that Britain made this worse - but not by giving Jews there own homeland, but by making a complete hash of the region under the Sykes-Picot agreement, not to mention carving off a huge lump of Palestine (AKA Jordan) and gifting it to the Hashemite family for their loss of Hejaz (Saudi). In the US there's a term called 'land back', a campaign to restore territory to indigenous Natives - and the creation of Israel is similarly a land back movement, and considering the sheer volume of space in the Middle East, it could have been done without harming anyone - but it was always Arabs who attacked Jews first. | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"Well my grandad and his granddad and his grandad was all born in a tiny village in the north and in 1948 they got kicked out plus the West Bank under international law and the 1990 peace accord that was signed states the West Bank is part of a state of Palestine so please don’t tell me about my history " Tell me, who was the Prime Minister of Palestine prior to 1948, what was the flag, what was the currency and who were the major historical figures? There is no state of Palestine, there never was a state of Palestine - it was a region of Southern Syria; including the Mutasarrifate of Jerusalem, the Nablus Sanjak, and the Acre Sanjak Prior to Zionism, the people of the region were not 'Palestinians' they were Arabs - many of them who moved there from Egypt to escape conscription in the mid 19th century. The rest were largely semi-nomadic Bedouin and peasant Fellahin - and as such the settled population was small. Not non-existent, but small. Even the displaced tenant farmers had only been there since 1872, after the Sursock family moved Bedouin off their land - nobody complained about that, but everyone complained when Jews bought the same land. Your predecessors could have chosen to live in peace with Jews, as many did, but they allowed themselves to be manipulated by the Grand Mufti - and those that did live in peace, well their descendants continue to do so. Expulsions in 1948 were largely strategic - which happens in war - but many of them were also compelled to leave by local leaders, thinking they'd be able to return home after they'd 'driven the Jews into the sea'. | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"Well my grandad and his granddad and his grandad was all born in a tiny village in the north and in 1948 they got kicked out plus the West Bank under international law and the 1990 peace accord that was signed states the West Bank is part of a state of Palestine so please don’t tell me about my history Tell me, who was the Prime Minister of Palestine prior to 1948, what was the flag, what was the currency and who were the major historical figures? There is no state of Palestine, there never was a state of Palestine - it was a region of Southern Syria; including the Mutasarrifate of Jerusalem, the Nablus Sanjak, and the Acre Sanjak Prior to Zionism, the people of the region were not 'Palestinians' they were Arabs - many of them who moved there from Egypt to escape conscription in the mid 19th century. The rest were largely semi-nomadic Bedouin and peasant Fellahin - and as such the settled population was small. Not non-existent, but small. Even the displaced tenant farmers had only been there since 1872, after the Sursock family moved Bedouin off their land - nobody complained about that, but everyone complained when Jews bought the same land. Your predecessors could have chosen to live in peace with Jews, as many did, but they allowed themselves to be manipulated by the Grand Mufti - and those that did live in peace, well their descendants continue to do so. Expulsions in 1948 were largely strategic - which happens in war - but many of them were also compelled to leave by local leaders, thinking they'd be able to return home after they'd 'driven the Jews into the sea'. " need anymore lime for your whitewash mate? | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"Complete 20th century disaster this has been. A monumental f**k up in British foreign policy. The Brits still had plenty of pink on the map. Should have gave the Jews the Falklands or somewhere else less contentious instead. Would have only upset a handful of farmers & sheep The remigration of a people en masse after 2000 years was always going to cause big problems. May as well give the USA, NZ & Australia back to the indigenous as well eh? Fairs fair. This is based on an assumption that Britain created Israel and gave it to the Jews, it did not. Political Zionism was already several decades old when Britain conquered the Ottoman Empire - and even without that, a Jewish majority had been restored to Jerusalem for several decades before that. The Balfour Declaration was not legally binding until the start of the Mandate in 1923, and it was the League of Nations that decided upon this. It wasn't Britain who gave the land to the Jews, it was already their land - while populations waxed and waned (not helped by expulsions and conquests) there had been a continuous, unbroken presence in the region for three thousand years. It is literally the place where their culture was formed - and it is entirely feasible that political Zionism would have succeeded whether Britain was involved or not. Then, as soon as Britain was given the mandate, they did everything they could to make it as difficult as possible - like installing Haj Amin Al Husseini as Grand Mufti (later to ally himself with Hitler) and limiting Jewish immigration while opening the doors to Arab immigration. Not many people know that Britain interred 55,000 Jews in camps in Cyprus rather than allow them into Palestine - because they were scared that this would upset the Arabs too much, and there was a big risk of them siding with the Nazis as a result. Then, moving forwards, it was the Jordanian Arab Legion, under the command of Britain's John Bagot 'Pasha' Glubb, who was a major aggressor in the 1948 Arab-Israeli war - while Britain stood back and refused to vote on the Partition Plan. I agree that Britain made this worse - but not by giving Jews there own homeland, but by making a complete hash of the region under the Sykes-Picot agreement, not to mention carving off a huge lump of Palestine (AKA Jordan) and gifting it to the Hashemite family for their loss of Hejaz (Saudi). In the US there's a term called 'land back', a campaign to restore territory to indigenous Natives - and the creation of Israel is similarly a land back movement, and considering the sheer volume of space in the Middle East, it could have been done without harming anyone - but it was always Arabs who attacked Jews first. " There may have been a ‘continuous presence’ of Jews over that long period but they were very, very much a minority for the overwhelming majority of it. The very fact that Britain had to hold back the tidal wave of ‘returning’ Jews as you say leading to conflict anyway shows what a deeply flawed policy it all was. Also, ‘the space’ may have been available to accommodate a sudden large influx of Jews, but I’m really not sure the infrastructure was, was it? Again, leading to understandable friction. | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"There may have been a ‘continuous presence’ of Jews over that long period but they were very, very much a minority for the overwhelming majority of it." The reason Jews were a minority was because of various conquests and expulsions going back several thousand years. And that includes the Islamic Conquests of the 7th century, when the entire Levant was colonised, converted and Arabised by Islamic conquerors, diminishing Jews and Christians to 'dhimmi' status, as second class citizens with very few rights. " The very fact that Britain had to hold back the tidal wave of ‘returning’ Jews as you say leading to conflict anyway shows what a deeply flawed policy it all was." Yes it was flawed, and it was in contravention of the mandate they were given by the League of Nations. Had Zionism been allowed and encouraged, the holocaust would have had a much smaller impact. Not forgetting that Arabs largely supported the Third Reich - antisemitism wasn't just a European problem that Arabs were expected to sort out. "Also, ‘the space’ may have been available to accommodate a sudden large influx of Jews, but I’m really not sure the infrastructure was, was it? Again, leading to understandable friction." It was Zionists who built the infrastructure, the railways, major roads, the desalination plants, the elimination of the malaria problem etc. - it was this that also abetted the growth of the Arab population, both with increased birth rates and immigration from surrounding areas. Without Zionism, Palestine / Southern Syria / Eretz Israel would have remained a largely desolate wasteland as recorded by many travel writers from previous eras. | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"need anymore lime for your whitewash mate?" If this is the level of debate you have to resort to, then you've already lost the argument. 😉 | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"There may have been a ‘continuous presence’ of Jews over that long period but they were very, very much a minority for the overwhelming majority of it. The reason Jews were a minority was because of various conquests and expulsions going back several thousand years. And that includes the Islamic Conquests of the 7th century, when the entire Levant was colonised, converted and Arabised by Islamic conquerors, diminishing Jews and Christians to 'dhimmi' status, as second class citizens with very few rights. The very fact that Britain had to hold back the tidal wave of ‘returning’ Jews as you say leading to conflict anyway shows what a deeply flawed policy it all was. Yes it was flawed, and it was in contravention of the mandate they were given by the League of Nations. Had Zionism been allowed and encouraged, the holocaust would have had a much smaller impact. Not forgetting that Arabs largely supported the Third Reich - antisemitism wasn't just a European problem that Arabs were expected to sort out. Also, ‘the space’ may have been available to accommodate a sudden large influx of Jews, but I’m really not sure the infrastructure was, was it? Again, leading to understandable friction. It was Zionists who built the infrastructure, the railways, major roads, the desalination plants, the elimination of the malaria problem etc. - it was this that also abetted the growth of the Arab population, both with increased birth rates and immigration from surrounding areas. Without Zionism, Palestine / Southern Syria / Eretz Israel would have remained a largely desolate wasteland as recorded by many travel writers from previous eras. " It is plain to see what you condone and I have no more to say to you. I am pleased and grateful I and many others are nothing like you | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
" It is plain to see what you condone and I have no more to say to you. I am pleased and grateful I and many others are nothing like you" Yes, I condone and support the existence of the World's only Jewish state. I am an unapologetic supporter of the aims of Zionism, and argue in its favour using verifiable history, facts and figures. Shalom | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
| |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
| |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
| |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
| |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"Israel is a terrorist state that murders children, women and any Palestine man They bomb hospitals schools ambulances and claim it’s Hamas despite it being the most documented genocide of our living history. Any one who claims palestinaisn use propaganda or are lying is a Zionist or idiotic and naive. Every human rights organisation internationally stated Isreal is committing a genocide. Israel r@ped their own hostage that were released by Hamas. They were not sexually assaulted by Hamas but isreali soldiers routinely r@pe isreali women. They r@pe palestinain doctors nurses. Murdering them then claiming that Israel are victims as they commit the worst war crimes imaginable " What a crock of shit. 😂 | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
| |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
" The reason Jews were a minority was because of various conquests and expulsions going back several thousand years. And that includes the Islamic Conquests of the 7th century, when the entire Levant was colonised, converted and Arabised by Islamic conquerors, diminishing Jews and Christians to 'dhimmi' status, as second class citizens with very few rights. Yes it was flawed, and it was in contravention of the mandate they were given by the League of Nations. Had Zionism been allowed and encouraged, the holocaust would have had a much smaller impact. Not forgetting that Arabs largely supported the Third Reich - antisemitism wasn't just a European problem that Arabs were expected to sort out. It was Zionists who built the infrastructure, the railways, major roads, the desalination plants, the elimination of the malaria problem etc. - it was this that also abetted the growth of the Arab population, both with increased birth rates and immigration from surrounding areas. Without Zionism, Palestine / Southern Syria / Eretz Israel would have remained a largely desolate wasteland as recorded by many travel writers from previous eras. " Yes I know why the Jews were a minority over the last couple of millennia. There are currently more than a few Palestinians enjoying second class rights within the modern state of Israel & as for those in the West Bank & Gaza, absolutely no further comment is necessary. The mandate as far as I remember allowed for the establishment of a Jewish national home WITHOUT detriment or disadvantage to the Arab population already living there…meanwhile the (not so) hidden Zionist intent seemed to always be to go above & beyond. eg Ben-Gurion later saying that partition would be a first step to “possession of the land as a whole.” I’m really not sure the infrastructure was ALREADY IN PLACE to accommodate the Jews who were landing at a rate of knots. How could it have been? They didn’t know the numbers arriving. It is a very debatable assumption that with no Zionist influx & no resultant conflict in the area over the last 80 years that Palestine would have remained a desolate wasteland. Anyhow. The fact that there is still conflict in the region 80 years later would tend to back my view over yours in that it was a bad idea. | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
| |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
| |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"Also, it is not 80 years later - there was a Jewish majority in Jerusalem by 1850 and Arabs were attacking Jews way before then. Haganah was formed to defend Jews in the 1920s, and before that similar Watchman groups (Hashomer, Bar Giora) existed from the late 1800s, to address defence problems caused by the failure of the Ottoman army. Saying it's an 80 year old conflict is just wrong. The only relevance to 1948 was the declaration of Israeli independence - when David Ben-Gurion invited everyone to join together - Arab and Jew - to create a new state - which was then followed by an almighty attack from surrounding Arab states. " Ben Gurion as I’ve already said, spoke with a forked tongue. I’ve referred to ‘80 years’ because that was a pivotal moment was it not with the formal declaration of a State of Israel. Yes, Jews have been persecuted by Arabs for eons. Which is why re-establishing & crowbarring a new Jewish state after millennia away into a long established Arab majority neighbourhood was always a silly idea. Would you choose to live on a street full of hostile neighbours, always throwing rocks at your windows, needing CCTV, barbed wire fences, with a stable full of guard dog Rottweilers just to try & live a quiet life? Because I wouldn’t. | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"Also, it is not 80 years later - there was a Jewish majority in Jerusalem by 1850 and Arabs were attacking Jews way before then. Haganah was formed to defend Jews in the 1920s, and before that similar Watchman groups (Hashomer, Bar Giora) existed from the late 1800s, to address defence problems caused by the failure of the Ottoman army. Saying it's an 80 year old conflict is just wrong. The only relevance to 1948 was the declaration of Israeli independence - when David Ben-Gurion invited everyone to join together - Arab and Jew - to create a new state - which was then followed by an almighty attack from surrounding Arab states. Ben Gurion as I’ve already said, spoke with a forked tongue. I’ve referred to ‘80 years’ because that was a pivotal moment was it not with the formal declaration of a State of Israel. Yes, Jews have been persecuted by Arabs for eons. Which is why re-establishing & crowbarring a new Jewish state after millennia away into a long established Arab majority neighbourhood was always a silly idea. Would you choose to live on a street full of hostile neighbours, always throwing rocks at your windows, needing CCTV, barbed wire fences, with a stable full of guard dog Rottweilers just to try & live a quiet life? Because I wouldn’t. " Just out of interest where would you chose for the Jews to have a homeland? Mrs x | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
" Which is why re-establishing & crowbarring a new Jewish state after millennia away into a long established Arab majority neighbourhood was always a silly idea. " What you seem to be implying, is that Jews should have accepted Arab antisemitism and just avoided their ancestral home altogether? So, if they were to bow down to this hatred, what other part of the World should they have moved to instead - and additionally, is accepting hatred a good precedent in general? | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
" Which is why re-establishing & crowbarring a new Jewish state after millennia away into a long established Arab majority neighbourhood was always a silly idea. What you seem to be implying, is that Jews should have accepted Arab antisemitism and just avoided their ancestral home altogether? So, if they were to bow down to this hatred, what other part of the World should they have moved to instead - and additionally, is accepting hatred a good precedent in general? " Also, a very significant proportion of the world's Jews lived in Arab countries (not so peacefully, though) at this point in time. (And these Jews make up the majority of Israel's Jews today) | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
" Just out of interest where would you chose for the Jews to have a homeland? Mrs x" There were actually proposals & floated ideas such as these: The Nazis proposed moving the Jews to Madagascar before ahem resorting to other options Other ideas: Uganda/East Africa British Guiana Argentina Cyprus As I said, I thought of the Falklands personally because of its low population | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
" What you seem to be implying, is that Jews should have accepted Arab antisemitism and just avoided their ancestral home altogether? So, if they were to bow down to this hatred, what other part of the World should they have moved to instead - and additionally, is accepting hatred a good precedent in general? " You cannot realistically expect to be absent in the overwhelming majority from a land for two millennia then suddenly start coming back in droves and it not cause problems. It’s just obvious that friction will ensue from that situation. And so it has proved. Like I said before, where do we stop with this ‘ancestral home’ stuff. What are all those Europeans doing in North America, Australia & New Zealand at the moment dominating government, land, resources & wealth then? They aren’t from there? Those places aren’t their ancestral homes? Britain, still full of colonial arrogance, hence the Balfour Declaration, thought the Arabs would just suck it all up as late as the early 20th century. They were wrong. And so it continues… | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"You cannot realistically expect to be absent in the overwhelming majority from a land for two millennia then suddenly start coming back in droves and it not cause problems." Why not? The total population was half a million spread out over a vast landscape - many of those were nomadic Bedouin, not tied to any single region. Many others had only moved onto the land after the Sursock Family rented them farm space in the 1870s. The Jews bought land from absentee landlords (including the Sursocks mentioned above) that included malaria infested swamps, often for hugely inflated prices. Besides, it wasn't a sudden thing - it had started on a small scale in the 1800s and Jews were still being attacked then. "It’s just obvious that friction will ensue from that situation. And so it has proved." I'd agree if it was densely populated, but it wasn't even a sovereign state - it was merely a small region of the vast Ottoman Empire that had no autonomy. The friction came from one Muslim leader in particular, Haj Amin Al Husseini, who exploited people's fears to turn it into a religious conflict - he's well know, a later friend of Adolf, who broadcast messages for Arabs to kill Jews. "Like I said before, where do we stop with this ‘ancestral home’ stuff. What are all those Europeans doing in North America, Australia & New Zealand at the moment dominating government, land, resources & wealth then? They aren’t from there? Those places aren’t their ancestral homes?" Every country is the result of colonialism, sure, and indigenous people deserve more autonomy in their ancestral lands - no other ethnicity has suffered the same history of prejudice as the Jews - there are very few places where that safety is absolutely a priority. So, I would say that, if any ethnic group is facing expulsion, threats or violence in their diaspora, then they should be allowed to return to the birthplace of their culture - I would equally apply this to the Assyrians too, also left without a homeland as a result of Islamic incursions. "Britain, still full of colonial arrogance, hence the Balfour Declaration, thought the Arabs would just suck it all up as late as the early 20th century. They were wrong. And so it continues…" The Balfour declaration was written as a letter of support, not a legally binding document. Just like the McMahon–Hussein correspondence were letters of support that promised the Arabs a continuous region. This was in WW1, just before the collapse of the Ottoman Empire - it wasn't nationalism, it was a war. It's more contentious that Britain ignored the McMahon–Hussein correspondence when creating the other nation states that came about from Sykes Picot agreement. However, nothing was legally binding until after the dissolution of the Ottoman Empire in the 1920s, and France and Britain were granted mandates to govern each region and set up the nation states of Syria, Iraq, Lebanon, Transjordan (now Jordan), Palestine (Now Israel) and so on. It's funny how very few people complained about a Hashemite king being installed in Transjordan, when the Hashemties were native to Hejaz (Saudi)/ | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
| |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"need anymore lime for your whitewash mate? If this is the level of debate you have to resort to, then you've already lost the argument. 😉" Debate? Debating what? It reads like debating killing women and children enmass, or starving them, they cannot continue to say Israel has the right to defend itself as it is killing thousands, what are they defending themselves from these days? What Israel has done is to show leaders like say Putin that they no longer have to follow international law, ICJ fuck them Israel did why can't I, I am just killing a few thousand with my own bombs. Looks what Israel is doing and no one took any action said a lot but no action, so it is my turn now. Thats not to mention all the converts to Hamas and other terror organisations around the world. Israel the country that just keeps on giving. | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
" Just out of interest where would you chose for the Jews to have a homeland? Mrs x There were actually proposals & floated ideas such as these: The Nazis proposed moving the Jews to Madagascar before ahem resorting to other options Other ideas: Uganda/East Africa British Guiana Argentina Cyprus As I said, I thought of the Falklands personally because of its low population " And these places were all willing to give up land to the Jews because of their obvious strong connections to the Jews. Because we all know how it worked out for the Jews in every country they have tried to settle in, Mrs x | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
" And these places were all willing to give up land to the Jews because of their obvious strong connections to the Jews. Because we all know how it worked out for the Jews in every country they have tried to settle in, Mrs x" Well, the Falklands only had a population of around 2000 people around the time the State of Israel was declared, so… | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
" And these places were all willing to give up land to the Jews because of their obvious strong connections to the Jews. Because we all know how it worked out for the Jews in every country they have tried to settle in, Mrs x Well, the Falklands only had a population of around 2000 people around the time the State of Israel was declared, so…" The Argies tried something like that in 1982, how'd that work out? Mrs x | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
" The Argies tried something like that in 1982, how'd that work out? Mrs x" Well the Falkland Islanders were defended by the British. In this case, it would have been the British enabling Jewish immigration. | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
" What a crock of shit. 😂" "If this is the level of debate you have to resort to, then you've already lost the argument."  | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
" The Argies tried something like that in 1982, how'd that work out? Mrs x Well the Falkland Islanders were defended by the British. In this case, it would have been the British enabling Jewish immigration." Wht was this plan abandoned then? Mrs x | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
" And these places were all willing to give up land to the Jews because of their obvious strong connections to the Jews. Because we all know how it worked out for the Jews in every country they have tried to settle in, Mrs x Well, the Falklands only had a population of around 2000 people around the time the State of Israel was declared, so…" You really like the idea of colonialism, then? | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
" You really like the idea of colonialism, then?" Not really, but if it’s a choice of least worst option that pi$$es a lot less people off, I’ll take it. | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
" Wht was this plan abandoned then? Mrs x" Falklands were never suggested as far as I’m aware. Original point I made was the Brits still had plenty of Empire over 100 years ago. There were other, probably less contentious options than Palestine. | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
" Wht was this plan abandoned then? Mrs x Falklands were never suggested as far as I’m aware. Original point I made was the Brits still had plenty of Empire over 100 years ago. There were other, probably less contentious options than Palestine." Do why did we have to accommodate them? And by using your logic, wouldn't anywhere we considered within our Empire upset the locals we had colonised? Israel seems the most obvious place to give as a homeland at the time, since it was a country of its own since when the Jews were kicked out until the time it was released established. It had only been an enclave of various different empires since then and at the time the previous Empire, the Ottomans no longer had any claim over it. Mrs x | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"‘it had started on a small scale in the 1800s and Jews were still being attacked then.’ So you are admitting there was already friction on a smaller scale (because of the comparatively lower number of Jews) well before the Mufti ‘stirred things up’ then? Pretty good indication that mass Jewish immigration wouldn’t have been a great idea if you ask me…" It sounds to me that you're excusing violence - do you condone the anti-immigration riots from last year too, or is it just Jewish refugees you have a problem with? | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
" Wht was this plan abandoned then? Mrs x Falklands were never suggested as far as I’m aware. Original point I made was the Brits still had plenty of Empire over 100 years ago. There were other, probably less contentious options than Palestine.Do why did we have to accommodate them? And by using your logic, wouldn't anywhere we considered within our Empire upset the locals we had colonised? Israel seems the most obvious place to give as a homeland at the time, since it was a country of its own since when the Jews were kicked out until the time it was released established. It had only been an enclave of various different empires since then and at the time the previous Empire, the Ottomans no longer had any claim over it. Mrs x" Well the British didn’t have to accommodate them, you are correct. But some in the UK government were sympathetic to the idea of a Jewish homeland & it became policy & we also ruled the roost over lots of overseas territory. Yes you are correct in that unless the proposed land for a new Jewish homeland didn’t have existing occupants, you are going to upset people (and why would this be any different for the Palestinian Arabs?) I’d rather operate on the basis of the less people you upset, the better. Do you think the last 100 years have gone well over there then? | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
" It sounds to me that you're excusing violence - do you condone the anti-immigration riots from last year too, or is it just Jewish refugees you have a problem with?" I’m not condoning violence. I don’t condone violence. But I’m also a pragmatist. | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
" Just out of interest where would you chose for the Jews to have a homeland? Mrs x There were actually proposals & floated ideas such as these: The Nazis proposed moving the Jews to Madagascar before ahem resorting to other options Other ideas: Uganda/East Africa British Guiana Argentina Cyprus As I said, I thought of the Falklands personally because of its low population " The entire Jewish culture was formed in ancient Israel - their calendar, celebrations, language, prayers; it all originates from that land. And you're basically saying that they could have been sent anywhere except their homeland, even preferring the Nazi idea of Madagascar rather than allowing them self-determination.  | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
" Just out of interest where would you chose for the Jews to have a homeland? Mrs x There were actually proposals & floated ideas such as these: The Nazis proposed moving the Jews to Madagascar before ahem resorting to other options Other ideas: Uganda/East Africa British Guiana Argentina Cyprus As I said, I thought of the Falklands personally because of its low population The entire Jewish culture was formed in ancient Israel - their calendar, celebrations, language, prayers; it all originates from that land. And you're basically saying that they could have been sent anywhere except their homeland, even preferring the Nazi idea of Madagascar rather than allowing them self-determination. "I have no idea what this talk is about. Israel has new lands the West Bank and Gaza the new resort in Israel. | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
" Just out of interest where would you chose for the Jews to have a homeland? Mrs x There were actually proposals & floated ideas such as these: The Nazis proposed moving the Jews to Madagascar before ahem resorting to other options Other ideas: Uganda/East Africa British Guiana Argentina Cyprus As I said, I thought of the Falklands personally because of its low population The entire Jewish culture was formed in ancient Israel - their calendar, celebrations, language, prayers; it all originates from that land. And you're basically saying that they could have been sent anywhere except their homeland, even preferring the Nazi idea of Madagascar rather than allowing them self-determination. "Well they were defeated & driven out millennia ago weren’t they? Like I said, plenty of other peoples around the world can claim to have been treated unfairly & also more recently too. Almost as many Jews live in the US as live in Israel. They seem to be doing ok don’t they? | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
" Wht was this plan abandoned then? Mrs x Falklands were never suggested as far as I’m aware. Original point I made was the Brits still had plenty of Empire over 100 years ago. There were other, probably less contentious options than Palestine.Do why did we have to accommodate them? And by using your logic, wouldn't anywhere we considered within our Empire upset the locals we had colonised? Israel seems the most obvious place to give as a homeland at the time, since it was a country of its own since when the Jews were kicked out until the time it was released established. It had only been an enclave of various different empires since then and at the time the previous Empire, the Ottomans no longer had any claim over it. Mrs x Well the British didn’t have to accommodate them, you are correct. But some in the UK government were sympathetic to the idea of a Jewish homeland & it became policy & we also ruled the roost over lots of overseas territory. Yes you are correct in that unless the proposed land for a new Jewish homeland didn’t have existing occupants, you are going to upset people (and why would this be any different for the Palestinian Arabs?) I’d rather operate on the basis of the less people you upset, the better. Do you think the last 100 years have gone well over there then? " Do you think it's gone well for Jews since being kicked out of their homeland? Mrs x | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
" Just out of interest where would you chose for the Jews to have a homeland? Mrs x There were actually proposals & floated ideas such as these: The Nazis proposed moving the Jews to Madagascar before ahem resorting to other options Other ideas: Uganda/East Africa British Guiana Argentina Cyprus As I said, I thought of the Falklands personally because of its low population The entire Jewish culture was formed in ancient Israel - their calendar, celebrations, language, prayers; it all originates from that land. And you're basically saying that they could have been sent anywhere except their homeland, even preferring the Nazi idea of Madagascar rather than allowing them self-determination.
Well they were defeated & driven out millennia ago weren’t they? Like I said, plenty of other peoples around the world can claim to have been treated unfairly & also more recently too.
Almost as many Jews live in the US as live in Israel. They seem to be doing ok don’t they?
"Lots of countries can also claim to have been formed and founded in the last two hundred years, in places occupied by others but you have no problems with that it seems. Look at a map of Europe it looks a lot different since then. As for you American argument, you have no empathy for Native Americans then, there's only been peace for a relatively short period of time. Also lots of people and nationalities seem to do ok over in America, does that mean everyone should go there from these countries? English, Irish, Germany, Spanish, should we all just throw ourselves upon their shores then? At least the Jews have an historic claim and never left the place entirely. Where do the Palestinians get their claim from. The country of Palestine, the kings of Palestine or because you are conflating Arabs with Palestinians, something the Saudis, Jordanian, Syrians would dispute. Mrs x | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
" Do you think it's gone well for Jews since being kicked out of their homeland? Mrs x" No I don’t but repatriating people to their original ancient lands of origin isn’t necessarily the best option is it? As is being proved here. | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
" Just out of interest where would you chose for the Jews to have a homeland? Mrs x There were actually proposals & floated ideas such as these: The Nazis proposed moving the Jews to Madagascar before ahem resorting to other options Other ideas: Uganda/East Africa British Guiana Argentina Cyprus As I said, I thought of the Falklands personally because of its low population The entire Jewish culture was formed in ancient Israel - their calendar, celebrations, language, prayers; it all originates from that land. And you're basically saying that they could have been sent anywhere except their homeland, even preferring the Nazi idea of Madagascar rather than allowing them self-determination.
Well they were defeated & driven out millennia ago weren’t they? Like I said, plenty of other peoples around the world can claim to have been treated unfairly & also more recently too.
Almost as many Jews live in the US as live in Israel. They seem to be doing ok don’t they?
Lots of countries can also claim to have been formed and founded in the last two hundred years, in places occupied by others but you have no problems with that it seems. Look at a map of Europe it looks a lot different since then.
As for you American argument, you have no empathy for Native Americans then, there's only been peace for a relatively short period of time.
Also lots of people and nationalities seem to do ok over in America, does that mean everyone should go there from these countries? English, Irish, Germany, Spanish, should we all just throw ourselves upon their shores then?
At least the Jews have an historic claim and never left the place entirely.
Where do the Palestinians get their claim from. The country of Palestine, the kings of Palestine or because you are conflating Arabs with Palestinians, something the Saudis, Jordanian, Syrians would dispute.
Mrs x
"I do have problems with a lot of that tbh & if you look at my previous posts, you will see that. But I’m also a realist. The state of Israel where it is located will never be at peace. The formation of it has ruffled too many feathers in the locality for that to ever be the case as far as I see. | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
| |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
" Just out of interest where would you chose for the Jews to have a homeland? Mrs x There were actually proposals & floated ideas such as these: The Nazis proposed moving the Jews to Madagascar before ahem resorting to other options Other ideas: Uganda/East Africa British Guiana Argentina Cyprus As I said, I thought of the Falklands personally because of its low population The entire Jewish culture was formed in ancient Israel - their calendar, celebrations, language, prayers; it all originates from that land. And you're basically saying that they could have been sent anywhere except their homeland, even preferring the Nazi idea of Madagascar rather than allowing them self-determination.
Well they were defeated & driven out millennia ago weren’t they? Like I said, plenty of other peoples around the world can claim to have been treated unfairly & also more recently too.
Almost as many Jews live in the US as live in Israel. They seem to be doing ok don’t they?
Lots of countries can also claim to have been formed and founded in the last two hundred years, in places occupied by others but you have no problems with that it seems. Look at a map of Europe it looks a lot different since then.
As for you American argument, you have no empathy for Native Americans then, there's only been peace for a relatively short period of time.
Also lots of people and nationalities seem to do ok over in America, does that mean everyone should go there from these countries? English, Irish, Germany, Spanish, should we all just throw ourselves upon their shores then?
At least the Jews have an historic claim and never left the place entirely.
Where do the Palestinians get their claim from. The country of Palestine, the kings of Palestine or because you are conflating Arabs with Palestinians, something the Saudis, Jordanian, Syrians would dispute.
Mrs x
I do have problems with a lot of that tbh & if you look at my previous posts, you will see that.
But I’m also a realist.
The state of Israel where it is located will never be at peace. The formation of it has ruffled too many feathers in the locality for that to ever be the case as far as I see.
"Because it was a place of peace and harmony before wasn't it, Mrs x | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
" Just out of interest where would you chose for the Jews to have a homeland? Mrs x There were actually proposals & floated ideas such as these: The Nazis proposed moving the Jews to Madagascar before ahem resorting to other options Other ideas: Uganda/East Africa British Guiana Argentina Cyprus As I said, I thought of the Falklands personally because of its low population The entire Jewish culture was formed in ancient Israel - their calendar, celebrations, language, prayers; it all originates from that land. And you're basically saying that they could have been sent anywhere except their homeland, even preferring the Nazi idea of Madagascar rather than allowing them self-determination.
Well they were defeated & driven out millennia ago weren’t they? Like I said, plenty of other peoples around the world can claim to have been treated unfairly & also more recently too.
Almost as many Jews live in the US as live in Israel. They seem to be doing ok don’t they?
Lots of countries can also claim to have been formed and founded in the last two hundred years, in places occupied by others but you have no problems with that it seems. Look at a map of Europe it looks a lot different since then.
As for you American argument, you have no empathy for Native Americans then, there's only been peace for a relatively short period of time.
Also lots of people and nationalities seem to do ok over in America, does that mean everyone should go there from these countries? English, Irish, Germany, Spanish, should we all just throw ourselves upon their shores then?
At least the Jews have an historic claim and never left the place entirely.
Where do the Palestinians get their claim from. The country of Palestine, the kings of Palestine or because you are conflating Arabs with Palestinians, something the Saudis, Jordanian, Syrians would dispute.
Mrs x
I do have problems with a lot of that tbh & if you look at my previous posts, you will see that.
But I’m also a realist.
The state of Israel where it is located will never be at peace. The formation of it has ruffled too many feathers in the locality for that to ever be the case as far as I see.
Because it was a place of peace and harmony before wasn't it,
Mrs x"You could say that about the majority of the globe couldn’t you? Does that mean we should continually create new causes for grievance if we have the means to avoid it? | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
" Just out of interest where would you chose for the Jews to have a homeland? Mrs x There were actually proposals & floated ideas such as these: The Nazis proposed moving the Jews to Madagascar before ahem resorting to other options Other ideas: Uganda/East Africa British Guiana Argentina Cyprus As I said, I thought of the Falklands personally because of its low population The entire Jewish culture was formed in ancient Israel - their calendar, celebrations, language, prayers; it all originates from that land. And you're basically saying that they could have been sent anywhere except their homeland, even preferring the Nazi idea of Madagascar rather than allowing them self-determination.
Well they were defeated & driven out millennia ago weren’t they? Like I said, plenty of other peoples around the world can claim to have been treated unfairly & also more recently too.
Almost as many Jews live in the US as live in Israel. They seem to be doing ok don’t they?
Lots of countries can also claim to have been formed and founded in the last two hundred years, in places occupied by others but you have no problems with that it seems. Look at a map of Europe it looks a lot different since then.
As for you American argument, you have no empathy for Native Americans then, there's only been peace for a relatively short period of time.
Also lots of people and nationalities seem to do ok over in America, does that mean everyone should go there from these countries? English, Irish, Germany, Spanish, should we all just throw ourselves upon their shores then?
At least the Jews have an historic claim and never left the place entirely.
Where do the Palestinians get their claim from. The country of Palestine, the kings of Palestine or because you are conflating Arabs with Palestinians, something the Saudis, Jordanian, Syrians would dispute.
Mrs x
I do have problems with a lot of that tbh & if you look at my previous posts, you will see that.
But I’m also a realist.
The state of Israel where it is located will never be at peace. The formation of it has ruffled too many feathers in the locality for that to ever be the case as far as I see.
Because it was a place of peace and harmony before wasn't it,
Mrs x
You could say that about the majority of the globe couldn’t you?
Does that mean we should continually create new causes for grievance if we have the means to avoid it?"I'm not saying that at all. Should a country cease to exist because it has violent enemies? You talk about pragmatism, not wanting violence, but the Jews have faced violence everywhere they have every been. So how do you deal with that? Maybe, being pragmatic, you wipe out such barbaric people first and then set up the Jewish community, free from the violence they have always suffered. Mrs x | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
" Just out of interest where would you chose for the Jews to have a homeland? Mrs x There were actually proposals & floated ideas such as these: The Nazis proposed moving the Jews to Madagascar before ahem resorting to other options Other ideas: Uganda/East Africa British Guiana Argentina Cyprus As I said, I thought of the Falklands personally because of its low population The entire Jewish culture was formed in ancient Israel - their calendar, celebrations, language, prayers; it all originates from that land. And you're basically saying that they could have been sent anywhere except their homeland, even preferring the Nazi idea of Madagascar rather than allowing them self-determination.
Well they were defeated & driven out millennia ago weren’t they? Like I said, plenty of other peoples around the world can claim to have been treated unfairly & also more recently too.
Almost as many Jews live in the US as live in Israel. They seem to be doing ok don’t they?
Lots of countries can also claim to have been formed and founded in the last two hundred years, in places occupied by others but you have no problems with that it seems. Look at a map of Europe it looks a lot different since then.
As for you American argument, you have no empathy for Native Americans then, there's only been peace for a relatively short period of time.
Also lots of people and nationalities seem to do ok over in America, does that mean everyone should go there from these countries? English, Irish, Germany, Spanish, should we all just throw ourselves upon their shores then?
At least the Jews have an historic claim and never left the place entirely.
Where do the Palestinians get their claim from. The country of Palestine, the kings of Palestine or because you are conflating Arabs with Palestinians, something the Saudis, Jordanian, Syrians would dispute.
Mrs x
I do have problems with a lot of that tbh & if you look at my previous posts, you will see that.
But I’m also a realist.
The state of Israel where it is located will never be at peace. The formation of it has ruffled too many feathers in the locality for that to ever be the case as far as I see.
Because it was a place of peace and harmony before wasn't it,
Mrs x
You could say that about the majority of the globe couldn’t you?
Does that mean we should continually create new causes for grievance if we have the means to avoid it? I'm not saying that at all. Should a country cease to exist because it has violent enemies?
You talk about pragmatism, not wanting violence, but the Jews have faced violence everywhere they have every been.
So how do you deal with that?
Maybe, being pragmatic, you wipe out such barbaric people first and then set up the Jewish community, free from the violence they have always suffered.
Mrs x"Wiping out barbaric people will never happen. By killing 50k people in Gaza, Israel only creates more resentment & hatred & more martyrs ready to die for the cause. | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
" Just out of interest where would you chose for the Jews to have a homeland? Mrs x There were actually proposals & floated ideas such as these: The Nazis proposed moving the Jews to Madagascar before ahem resorting to other options Other ideas: Uganda/East Africa British Guiana Argentina Cyprus As I said, I thought of the Falklands personally because of its low population The entire Jewish culture was formed in ancient Israel - their calendar, celebrations, language, prayers; it all originates from that land. And you're basically saying that they could have been sent anywhere except their homeland, even preferring the Nazi idea of Madagascar rather than allowing them self-determination.
Well they were defeated & driven out millennia ago weren’t they? Like I said, plenty of other peoples around the world can claim to have been treated unfairly & also more recently too.
Almost as many Jews live in the US as live in Israel. They seem to be doing ok don’t they?
Lots of countries can also claim to have been formed and founded in the last two hundred years, in places occupied by others but you have no problems with that it seems. Look at a map of Europe it looks a lot different since then.
As for you American argument, you have no empathy for Native Americans then, there's only been peace for a relatively short period of time.
Also lots of people and nationalities seem to do ok over in America, does that mean everyone should go there from these countries? English, Irish, Germany, Spanish, should we all just throw ourselves upon their shores then?
At least the Jews have an historic claim and never left the place entirely.
Where do the Palestinians get their claim from. The country of Palestine, the kings of Palestine or because you are conflating Arabs with Palestinians, something the Saudis, Jordanian, Syrians would dispute.
Mrs x
I do have problems with a lot of that tbh & if you look at my previous posts, you will see that.
But I’m also a realist.
The state of Israel where it is located will never be at peace. The formation of it has ruffled too many feathers in the locality for that to ever be the case as far as I see.
Because it was a place of peace and harmony before wasn't it,
Mrs x
You could say that about the majority of the globe couldn’t you?
Does that mean we should continually create new causes for grievance if we have the means to avoid it? I'm not saying that at all. Should a country cease to exist because it has violent enemies?
You talk about pragmatism, not wanting violence, but the Jews have faced violence everywhere they have every been.
So how do you deal with that?
Maybe, being pragmatic, you wipe out such barbaric people first and then set up the Jewish community, free from the violence they have always suffered.
Mrs x
Wiping out barbaric people will never happen. By killing 50k people in Gaza, Israel only creates more resentment & hatred & more martyrs ready to die for the cause."A quote from THE SETTLERS a BBC doc by Louis Theroux. "We take the land because our government cannot, then when have taken the land our government cannot say anything because we have taken the land, then our government helps us to make the land more settled so that we may remain". Thats the real truth straight from a settlers mouth. | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
" Just out of interest where would you chose for the Jews to have a homeland? Mrs x There were actually proposals & floated ideas such as these: The Nazis proposed moving the Jews to Madagascar before ahem resorting to other options Other ideas: Uganda/East Africa British Guiana Argentina Cyprus As I said, I thought of the Falklands personally because of its low population The entire Jewish culture was formed in ancient Israel - their calendar, celebrations, language, prayers; it all originates from that land. And you're basically saying that they could have been sent anywhere except their homeland, even preferring the Nazi idea of Madagascar rather than allowing them self-determination.
Well they were defeated & driven out millennia ago weren’t they? Like I said, plenty of other peoples around the world can claim to have been treated unfairly & also more recently too.
Almost as many Jews live in the US as live in Israel. They seem to be doing ok don’t they?
Lots of countries can also claim to have been formed and founded in the last two hundred years, in places occupied by others but you have no problems with that it seems. Look at a map of Europe it looks a lot different since then.
As for you American argument, you have no empathy for Native Americans then, there's only been peace for a relatively short period of time.
Also lots of people and nationalities seem to do ok over in America, does that mean everyone should go there from these countries? English, Irish, Germany, Spanish, should we all just throw ourselves upon their shores then?
At least the Jews have an historic claim and never left the place entirely.
Where do the Palestinians get their claim from. The country of Palestine, the kings of Palestine or because you are conflating Arabs with Palestinians, something the Saudis, Jordanian, Syrians would dispute.
Mrs x
I do have problems with a lot of that tbh & if you look at my previous posts, you will see that.
But I’m also a realist.
The state of Israel where it is located will never be at peace. The formation of it has ruffled too many feathers in the locality for that to ever be the case as far as I see.
Because it was a place of peace and harmony before wasn't it,
Mrs x
You could say that about the majority of the globe couldn’t you?
Does that mean we should continually create new causes for grievance if we have the means to avoid it? I'm not saying that at all. Should a country cease to exist because it has violent enemies?
You talk about pragmatism, not wanting violence, but the Jews have faced violence everywhere they have every been.
So how do you deal with that?
Maybe, being pragmatic, you wipe out such barbaric people first and then set up the Jewish community, free from the violence they have always suffered.
Mrs x
Wiping out barbaric people will never happen. By killing 50k people in Gaza, Israel only creates more resentment & hatred & more martyrs ready to die for the cause."Im not talking about those killed in Gaza. I'm pointing out that the region contains the world's largest collection of terrorists. Islamic terrorism has claimed more lives in recent years than any other group. It's not even against Jews but Christians and more surprisingly fellow Muslims. The Jews are not the biggest problem here, not by a long shot. And should the Islamist terrorists succeed in wiping out the Jews, then the West is next, they will turn all their attention to other infidels and to not acknowledge this is just burying your head in the sand. Mrs x | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
" Just out of interest where would you chose for the Jews to have a homeland? Mrs x There were actually proposals & floated ideas such as these: The Nazis proposed moving the Jews to Madagascar before ahem resorting to other options Other ideas: Uganda/East Africa British Guiana Argentina Cyprus As I said, I thought of the Falklands personally because of its low population The entire Jewish culture was formed in ancient Israel - their calendar, celebrations, language, prayers; it all originates from that land. And you're basically saying that they could have been sent anywhere except their homeland, even preferring the Nazi idea of Madagascar rather than allowing them self-determination.
Well they were defeated & driven out millennia ago weren’t they? Like I said, plenty of other peoples around the world can claim to have been treated unfairly & also more recently too.
Almost as many Jews live in the US as live in Israel. They seem to be doing ok don’t they?
Lots of countries can also claim to have been formed and founded in the last two hundred years, in places occupied by others but you have no problems with that it seems. Look at a map of Europe it looks a lot different since then.
As for you American argument, you have no empathy for Native Americans then, there's only been peace for a relatively short period of time.
Also lots of people and nationalities seem to do ok over in America, does that mean everyone should go there from these countries? English, Irish, Germany, Spanish, should we all just throw ourselves upon their shores then?
At least the Jews have an historic claim and never left the place entirely.
Where do the Palestinians get their claim from. The country of Palestine, the kings of Palestine or because you are conflating Arabs with Palestinians, something the Saudis, Jordanian, Syrians would dispute.
Mrs x
I do have problems with a lot of that tbh & if you look at my previous posts, you will see that.
But I’m also a realist.
The state of Israel where it is located will never be at peace. The formation of it has ruffled too many feathers in the locality for that to ever be the case as far as I see.
Because it was a place of peace and harmony before wasn't it,
Mrs x
You could say that about the majority of the globe couldn’t you?
Does that mean we should continually create new causes for grievance if we have the means to avoid it? I'm not saying that at all. Should a country cease to exist because it has violent enemies?
You talk about pragmatism, not wanting violence, but the Jews have faced violence everywhere they have every been.
So how do you deal with that?
Maybe, being pragmatic, you wipe out such barbaric people first and then set up the Jewish community, free from the violence they have always suffered.
Mrs x
Wiping out barbaric people will never happen. By killing 50k people in Gaza, Israel only creates more resentment & hatred & more martyrs ready to die for the cause.Im not talking about those killed in Gaza.
I'm pointing out that the region contains the world's largest collection of terrorists. Islamic terrorism has claimed more lives in recent years than any other group.
It's not even against Jews but Christians and more surprisingly fellow Muslims.
The Jews are not the biggest problem here, not by a long shot. And should the Islamist terrorists succeed in wiping out the Jews, then the West is next, they will turn all their attention to other infidels and to not acknowledge this is just burying your head in the sand.
Mrs x"What is for sure is that Israel has created many thousands more to come slaughter us, by driving over us, bombs on buses and trains car bombs, just taking to the streets with knives to stab us. Thanks Israel the country that just keeps on giving. | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
" Just out of interest where would you chose for the Jews to have a homeland? Mrs x There were actually proposals & floated ideas such as these: The Nazis proposed moving the Jews to Madagascar before ahem resorting to other options Other ideas: Uganda/East Africa British Guiana Argentina Cyprus As I said, I thought of the Falklands personally because of its low population The entire Jewish culture was formed in ancient Israel - their calendar, celebrations, language, prayers; it all originates from that land. And you're basically saying that they could have been sent anywhere except their homeland, even preferring the Nazi idea of Madagascar rather than allowing them self-determination.
Well they were defeated & driven out millennia ago weren’t they? Like I said, plenty of other peoples around the world can claim to have been treated unfairly & also more recently too.
Almost as many Jews live in the US as live in Israel. They seem to be doing ok don’t they?
Lots of countries can also claim to have been formed and founded in the last two hundred years, in places occupied by others but you have no problems with that it seems. Look at a map of Europe it looks a lot different since then.
As for you American argument, you have no empathy for Native Americans then, there's only been peace for a relatively short period of time.
Also lots of people and nationalities seem to do ok over in America, does that mean everyone should go there from these countries? English, Irish, Germany, Spanish, should we all just throw ourselves upon their shores then?
At least the Jews have an historic claim and never left the place entirely.
Where do the Palestinians get their claim from. The country of Palestine, the kings of Palestine or because you are conflating Arabs with Palestinians, something the Saudis, Jordanian, Syrians would dispute.
Mrs x
I do have problems with a lot of that tbh & if you look at my previous posts, you will see that.
But I’m also a realist.
The state of Israel where it is located will never be at peace. The formation of it has ruffled too many feathers in the locality for that to ever be the case as far as I see.
Because it was a place of peace and harmony before wasn't it,
Mrs x
You could say that about the majority of the globe couldn’t you?
Does that mean we should continually create new causes for grievance if we have the means to avoid it? I'm not saying that at all. Should a country cease to exist because it has violent enemies?
You talk about pragmatism, not wanting violence, but the Jews have faced violence everywhere they have every been.
So how do you deal with that?
Maybe, being pragmatic, you wipe out such barbaric people first and then set up the Jewish community, free from the violence they have always suffered.
Mrs x
Wiping out barbaric people will never happen. By killing 50k people in Gaza, Israel only creates more resentment & hatred & more martyrs ready to die for the cause.Im not talking about those killed in Gaza.
I'm pointing out that the region contains the world's largest collection of terrorists. Islamic terrorism has claimed more lives in recent years than any other group.
It's not even against Jews but Christians and more surprisingly fellow Muslims.
The Jews are not the biggest problem here, not by a long shot. And should the Islamist terrorists succeed in wiping out the Jews, then the West is next, they will turn all their attention to other infidels and to not acknowledge this is just burying your head in the sand.
Mrs x"Why do you think a lot of Islamic terrorism exists? Do you think western foreign policy might be a reason? | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
" Just out of interest where would you chose for the Jews to have a homeland? Mrs x There were actually proposals & floated ideas such as these: The Nazis proposed moving the Jews to Madagascar before ahem resorting to other options Other ideas: Uganda/East Africa British Guiana Argentina Cyprus As I said, I thought of the Falklands personally because of its low population The entire Jewish culture was formed in ancient Israel - their calendar, celebrations, language, prayers; it all originates from that land. And you're basically saying that they could have been sent anywhere except their homeland, even preferring the Nazi idea of Madagascar rather than allowing them self-determination.
Well they were defeated & driven out millennia ago weren’t they? Like I said, plenty of other peoples around the world can claim to have been treated unfairly & also more recently too.
Almost as many Jews live in the US as live in Israel. They seem to be doing ok don’t they?
Lots of countries can also claim to have been formed and founded in the last two hundred years, in places occupied by others but you have no problems with that it seems. Look at a map of Europe it looks a lot different since then.
As for you American argument, you have no empathy for Native Americans then, there's only been peace for a relatively short period of time.
Also lots of people and nationalities seem to do ok over in America, does that mean everyone should go there from these countries? English, Irish, Germany, Spanish, should we all just throw ourselves upon their shores then?
At least the Jews have an historic claim and never left the place entirely.
Where do the Palestinians get their claim from. The country of Palestine, the kings of Palestine or because you are conflating Arabs with Palestinians, something the Saudis, Jordanian, Syrians would dispute.
Mrs x
I do have problems with a lot of that tbh & if you look at my previous posts, you will see that.
But I’m also a realist.
The state of Israel where it is located will never be at peace. The formation of it has ruffled too many feathers in the locality for that to ever be the case as far as I see.
Because it was a place of peace and harmony before wasn't it,
Mrs x
You could say that about the majority of the globe couldn’t you?
Does that mean we should continually create new causes for grievance if we have the means to avoid it? I'm not saying that at all. Should a country cease to exist because it has violent enemies?
You talk about pragmatism, not wanting violence, but the Jews have faced violence everywhere they have every been.
So how do you deal with that?
Maybe, being pragmatic, you wipe out such barbaric people first and then set up the Jewish community, free from the violence they have always suffered.
Mrs x
Wiping out barbaric people will never happen. By killing 50k people in Gaza, Israel only creates more resentment & hatred & more martyrs ready to die for the cause.Im not talking about those killed in Gaza.
I'm pointing out that the region contains the world's largest collection of terrorists. Islamic terrorism has claimed more lives in recent years than any other group.
It's not even against Jews but Christians and more surprisingly fellow Muslims.
The Jews are not the biggest problem here, not by a long shot. And should the Islamist terrorists succeed in wiping out the Jews, then the West is next, they will turn all their attention to other infidels and to not acknowledge this is just burying your head in the sand.
Mrs x
Why do you think a lot of Islamic terrorism exists?
Do you think western foreign policy might be a reason?"So how do you explain Islamic terrorism committed on other Muslims during the 8th Century. You are also forgetting the Quran which compels violence against infidels. Is this to be blamed on the West too, Mrs x | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
" Just out of interest where would you chose for the Jews to have a homeland? Mrs x There were actually proposals & floated ideas such as these: The Nazis proposed moving the Jews to Madagascar before ahem resorting to other options Other ideas: Uganda/East Africa British Guiana Argentina Cyprus As I said, I thought of the Falklands personally because of its low population The entire Jewish culture was formed in ancient Israel - their calendar, celebrations, language, prayers; it all originates from that land. And you're basically saying that they could have been sent anywhere except their homeland, even preferring the Nazi idea of Madagascar rather than allowing them self-determination.
Well they were defeated & driven out millennia ago weren’t they? Like I said, plenty of other peoples around the world can claim to have been treated unfairly & also more recently too.
Almost as many Jews live in the US as live in Israel. They seem to be doing ok don’t they?
Lots of countries can also claim to have been formed and founded in the last two hundred years, in places occupied by others but you have no problems with that it seems. Look at a map of Europe it looks a lot different since then.
As for you American argument, you have no empathy for Native Americans then, there's only been peace for a relatively short period of time.
Also lots of people and nationalities seem to do ok over in America, does that mean everyone should go there from these countries? English, Irish, Germany, Spanish, should we all just throw ourselves upon their shores then?
At least the Jews have an historic claim and never left the place entirely.
Where do the Palestinians get their claim from. The country of Palestine, the kings of Palestine or because you are conflating Arabs with Palestinians, something the Saudis, Jordanian, Syrians would dispute.
Mrs x
I do have problems with a lot of that tbh & if you look at my previous posts, you will see that.
But I’m also a realist.
The state of Israel where it is located will never be at peace. The formation of it has ruffled too many feathers in the locality for that to ever be the case as far as I see.
Because it was a place of peace and harmony before wasn't it,
Mrs x
You could say that about the majority of the globe couldn’t you?
Does that mean we should continually create new causes for grievance if we have the means to avoid it? I'm not saying that at all. Should a country cease to exist because it has violent enemies?
You talk about pragmatism, not wanting violence, but the Jews have faced violence everywhere they have every been.
So how do you deal with that?
Maybe, being pragmatic, you wipe out such barbaric people first and then set up the Jewish community, free from the violence they have always suffered.
Mrs x
Wiping out barbaric people will never happen. By killing 50k people in Gaza, Israel only creates more resentment & hatred & more martyrs ready to die for the cause.Im not talking about those killed in Gaza.
I'm pointing out that the region contains the world's largest collection of terrorists. Islamic terrorism has claimed more lives in recent years than any other group.
It's not even against Jews but Christians and more surprisingly fellow Muslims.
The Jews are not the biggest problem here, not by a long shot. And should the Islamist terrorists succeed in wiping out the Jews, then the West is next, they will turn all their attention to other infidels and to not acknowledge this is just burying your head in the sand.
Mrs x
Why do you think a lot of Islamic terrorism exists?
Do you think western foreign policy might be a reason?
So how do you explain Islamic terrorism committed on other Muslims during the 8th Century.
You are also forgetting the Quran which compels violence against infidels. Is this to be blamed on the West too,
Mrs x"Has there never been non-Muslim on non-Muslim conflict? UK hardly in a position to judge bearing in mind the centuries old conflict surrounding Ireland is it? | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
" Just out of interest where would you chose for the Jews to have a homeland? Mrs x There were actually proposals & floated ideas such as these: The Nazis proposed moving the Jews to Madagascar before ahem resorting to other options Other ideas: Uganda/East Africa British Guiana Argentina Cyprus As I said, I thought of the Falklands personally because of its low population The entire Jewish culture was formed in ancient Israel - their calendar, celebrations, language, prayers; it all originates from that land. And you're basically saying that they could have been sent anywhere except their homeland, even preferring the Nazi idea of Madagascar rather than allowing them self-determination.
Well they were defeated & driven out millennia ago weren’t they? Like I said, plenty of other peoples around the world can claim to have been treated unfairly & also more recently too.
Almost as many Jews live in the US as live in Israel. They seem to be doing ok don’t they?
Lots of countries can also claim to have been formed and founded in the last two hundred years, in places occupied by others but you have no problems with that it seems. Look at a map of Europe it looks a lot different since then.
As for you American argument, you have no empathy for Native Americans then, there's only been peace for a relatively short period of time.
Also lots of people and nationalities seem to do ok over in America, does that mean everyone should go there from these countries? English, Irish, Germany, Spanish, should we all just throw ourselves upon their shores then?
At least the Jews have an historic claim and never left the place entirely.
Where do the Palestinians get their claim from. The country of Palestine, the kings of Palestine or because you are conflating Arabs with Palestinians, something the Saudis, Jordanian, Syrians would dispute.
Mrs x
I do have problems with a lot of that tbh & if you look at my previous posts, you will see that.
But I’m also a realist.
The state of Israel where it is located will never be at peace. The formation of it has ruffled too many feathers in the locality for that to ever be the case as far as I see.
Because it was a place of peace and harmony before wasn't it,
Mrs x
You could say that about the majority of the globe couldn’t you?
Does that mean we should continually create new causes for grievance if we have the means to avoid it? I'm not saying that at all. Should a country cease to exist because it has violent enemies?
You talk about pragmatism, not wanting violence, but the Jews have faced violence everywhere they have every been.
So how do you deal with that?
Maybe, being pragmatic, you wipe out such barbaric people first and then set up the Jewish community, free from the violence they have always suffered.
Mrs x
Wiping out barbaric people will never happen. By killing 50k people in Gaza, Israel only creates more resentment & hatred & more martyrs ready to die for the cause.Im not talking about those killed in Gaza.
I'm pointing out that the region contains the world's largest collection of terrorists. Islamic terrorism has claimed more lives in recent years than any other group.
It's not even against Jews but Christians and more surprisingly fellow Muslims.
The Jews are not the biggest problem here, not by a long shot. And should the Islamist terrorists succeed in wiping out the Jews, then the West is next, they will turn all their attention to other infidels and to not acknowledge this is just burying your head in the sand.
Mrs x
Why do you think a lot of Islamic terrorism exists?
Do you think western foreign policy might be a reason?
So how do you explain Islamic terrorism committed on other Muslims during the 8th Century.
You are also forgetting the Quran which compels violence against infidels. Is this to be blamed on the West too,
Mrs x
Has there never been non-Muslim on non-Muslim conflict?
UK hardly in a position to judge bearing in mind the centuries old conflict surrounding Ireland is it?"This is not conflict, it's terrorism. It's suicide bombings, beheading not conflict. If the zUK is such a bad place and it's weighing on your conscience, why don't you imigrate to the Middle East, see how bad it is then, Mrs x | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
" Just out of interest where would you chose for the Jews to have a homeland? Mrs x There were actually proposals & floated ideas such as these: The Nazis proposed moving the Jews to Madagascar before ahem resorting to other options Other ideas: Uganda/East Africa British Guiana Argentina Cyprus As I said, I thought of the Falklands personally because of its low population The entire Jewish culture was formed in ancient Israel - their calendar, celebrations, language, prayers; it all originates from that land. And you're basically saying that they could have been sent anywhere except their homeland, even preferring the Nazi idea of Madagascar rather than allowing them self-determination.
Well they were defeated & driven out millennia ago weren’t they? Like I said, plenty of other peoples around the world can claim to have been treated unfairly & also more recently too.
Almost as many Jews live in the US as live in Israel. They seem to be doing ok don’t they?
Lots of countries can also claim to have been formed and founded in the last two hundred years, in places occupied by others but you have no problems with that it seems. Look at a map of Europe it looks a lot different since then.
As for you American argument, you have no empathy for Native Americans then, there's only been peace for a relatively short period of time.
Also lots of people and nationalities seem to do ok over in America, does that mean everyone should go there from these countries? English, Irish, Germany, Spanish, should we all just throw ourselves upon their shores then?
At least the Jews have an historic claim and never left the place entirely.
Where do the Palestinians get their claim from. The country of Palestine, the kings of Palestine or because you are conflating Arabs with Palestinians, something the Saudis, Jordanian, Syrians would dispute.
Mrs x
I do have problems with a lot of that tbh & if you look at my previous posts, you will see that.
But I’m also a realist.
The state of Israel where it is located will never be at peace. The formation of it has ruffled too many feathers in the locality for that to ever be the case as far as I see.
Because it was a place of peace and harmony before wasn't it,
Mrs x
You could say that about the majority of the globe couldn’t you?
Does that mean we should continually create new causes for grievance if we have the means to avoid it? I'm not saying that at all. Should a country cease to exist because it has violent enemies?
You talk about pragmatism, not wanting violence, but the Jews have faced violence everywhere they have every been.
So how do you deal with that?
Maybe, being pragmatic, you wipe out such barbaric people first and then set up the Jewish community, free from the violence they have always suffered.
Mrs x
Wiping out barbaric people will never happen. By killing 50k people in Gaza, Israel only creates more resentment & hatred & more martyrs ready to die for the cause.Im not talking about those killed in Gaza.
I'm pointing out that the region contains the world's largest collection of terrorists. Islamic terrorism has claimed more lives in recent years than any other group.
It's not even against Jews but Christians and more surprisingly fellow Muslims.
The Jews are not the biggest problem here, not by a long shot. And should the Islamist terrorists succeed in wiping out the Jews, then the West is next, they will turn all their attention to other infidels and to not acknowledge this is just burying your head in the sand.
Mrs x
Why do you think a lot of Islamic terrorism exists?
Do you think western foreign policy might be a reason?
So how do you explain Islamic terrorism committed on other Muslims during the 8th Century.
You are also forgetting the Quran which compels violence against infidels. Is this to be blamed on the West too,
Mrs x
Has there never been non-Muslim on non-Muslim conflict?
UK hardly in a position to judge bearing in mind the centuries old conflict surrounding Ireland is it? This is not conflict, it's terrorism. It's suicide bombings, beheading not conflict.
If the zUK is such a bad place and it's weighing on your conscience, why don't you imigrate to the Middle East, see how bad it is then,
Mrs x"So there was no terrorism in Ireland on both sides? Do me a favour. | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
" Just out of interest where would you chose for the Jews to have a homeland? Mrs x There were actually proposals & floated ideas such as these: The Nazis proposed moving the Jews to Madagascar before ahem resorting to other options Other ideas: Uganda/East Africa British Guiana Argentina Cyprus As I said, I thought of the Falklands personally because of its low population The entire Jewish culture was formed in ancient Israel - their calendar, celebrations, language, prayers; it all originates from that land. And you're basically saying that they could have been sent anywhere except their homeland, even preferring the Nazi idea of Madagascar rather than allowing them self-determination.
Well they were defeated & driven out millennia ago weren’t they? Like I said, plenty of other peoples around the world can claim to have been treated unfairly & also more recently too.
Almost as many Jews live in the US as live in Israel. They seem to be doing ok don’t they?
Lots of countries can also claim to have been formed and founded in the last two hundred years, in places occupied by others but you have no problems with that it seems. Look at a map of Europe it looks a lot different since then.
As for you American argument, you have no empathy for Native Americans then, there's only been peace for a relatively short period of time.
Also lots of people and nationalities seem to do ok over in America, does that mean everyone should go there from these countries? English, Irish, Germany, Spanish, should we all just throw ourselves upon their shores then?
At least the Jews have an historic claim and never left the place entirely.
Where do the Palestinians get their claim from. The country of Palestine, the kings of Palestine or because you are conflating Arabs with Palestinians, something the Saudis, Jordanian, Syrians would dispute.
Mrs x
I do have problems with a lot of that tbh & if you look at my previous posts, you will see that.
But I’m also a realist.
The state of Israel where it is located will never be at peace. The formation of it has ruffled too many feathers in the locality for that to ever be the case as far as I see.
Because it was a place of peace and harmony before wasn't it,
Mrs x
You could say that about the majority of the globe couldn’t you?
Does that mean we should continually create new causes for grievance if we have the means to avoid it? I'm not saying that at all. Should a country cease to exist because it has violent enemies?
You talk about pragmatism, not wanting violence, but the Jews have faced violence everywhere they have every been.
So how do you deal with that?
Maybe, being pragmatic, you wipe out such barbaric people first and then set up the Jewish community, free from the violence they have always suffered.
Mrs x
Wiping out barbaric people will never happen. By killing 50k people in Gaza, Israel only creates more resentment & hatred & more martyrs ready to die for the cause.Im not talking about those killed in Gaza.
I'm pointing out that the region contains the world's largest collection of terrorists. Islamic terrorism has claimed more lives in recent years than any other group.
It's not even against Jews but Christians and more surprisingly fellow Muslims.
The Jews are not the biggest problem here, not by a long shot. And should the Islamist terrorists succeed in wiping out the Jews, then the West is next, they will turn all their attention to other infidels and to not acknowledge this is just burying your head in the sand.
Mrs x
Why do you think a lot of Islamic terrorism exists?
Do you think western foreign policy might be a reason?
So how do you explain Islamic terrorism committed on other Muslims during the 8th Century.
You are also forgetting the Quran which compels violence against infidels. Is this to be blamed on the West too,
Mrs x
Has there never been non-Muslim on non-Muslim conflict?
UK hardly in a position to judge bearing in mind the centuries old conflict surrounding Ireland is it? This is not conflict, it's terrorism. It's suicide bombings, beheading not conflict.
If the zUK is such a bad place and it's weighing on your conscience, why don't you imigrate to the Middle East, see how bad it is then,
Mrs x
So there was no terrorism in Ireland on both sides?
Do me a favour."Never said there wasn't. Know lots about the terrorism on both sides, that's why my father took us out of the country and I've never been back. Know all about the terrorism in Ireland. But sticking to the Middle East. It amazes me, all these virtue signalling, terrorist apologists, sat in the comfort of their homes, enjoying all the rights and protections afforded by Western democracy, supporting Hamas and the like and yet so few who actually do anything about it. Go on they have called for a 'Holy War' help them fight against tge infidel. But that's not going to happen, especially when The Chase starts soon and you are having a chippy tea, haha. Mrs x | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
" Just out of interest where would you chose for the Jews to have a homeland? Mrs x There were actually proposals & floated ideas such as these: The Nazis proposed moving the Jews to Madagascar before ahem resorting to other options Other ideas: Uganda/East Africa British Guiana Argentina Cyprus As I said, I thought of the Falklands personally because of its low population The entire Jewish culture was formed in ancient Israel - their calendar, celebrations, language, prayers; it all originates from that land. And you're basically saying that they could have been sent anywhere except their homeland, even preferring the Nazi idea of Madagascar rather than allowing them self-determination.
Well they were defeated & driven out millennia ago weren’t they? Like I said, plenty of other peoples around the world can claim to have been treated unfairly & also more recently too.
Almost as many Jews live in the US as live in Israel. They seem to be doing ok don’t they?
Lots of countries can also claim to have been formed and founded in the last two hundred years, in places occupied by others but you have no problems with that it seems. Look at a map of Europe it looks a lot different since then.
As for you American argument, you have no empathy for Native Americans then, there's only been peace for a relatively short period of time.
Also lots of people and nationalities seem to do ok over in America, does that mean everyone should go there from these countries? English, Irish, Germany, Spanish, should we all just throw ourselves upon their shores then?
At least the Jews have an historic claim and never left the place entirely.
Where do the Palestinians get their claim from. The country of Palestine, the kings of Palestine or because you are conflating Arabs with Palestinians, something the Saudis, Jordanian, Syrians would dispute.
Mrs x
I do have problems with a lot of that tbh & if you look at my previous posts, you will see that.
But I’m also a realist.
The state of Israel where it is located will never be at peace. The formation of it has ruffled too many feathers in the locality for that to ever be the case as far as I see.
Because it was a place of peace and harmony before wasn't it,
Mrs x
You could say that about the majority of the globe couldn’t you?
Does that mean we should continually create new causes for grievance if we have the means to avoid it? I'm not saying that at all. Should a country cease to exist because it has violent enemies?
You talk about pragmatism, not wanting violence, but the Jews have faced violence everywhere they have every been.
So how do you deal with that?
Maybe, being pragmatic, you wipe out such barbaric people first and then set up the Jewish community, free from the violence they have always suffered.
Mrs x
Wiping out barbaric people will never happen. By killing 50k people in Gaza, Israel only creates more resentment & hatred & more martyrs ready to die for the cause.Im not talking about those killed in Gaza.
I'm pointing out that the region contains the world's largest collection of terrorists. Islamic terrorism has claimed more lives in recent years than any other group.
It's not even against Jews but Christians and more surprisingly fellow Muslims.
The Jews are not the biggest problem here, not by a long shot. And should the Islamist terrorists succeed in wiping out the Jews, then the West is next, they will turn all their attention to other infidels and to not acknowledge this is just burying your head in the sand.
Mrs x
Why do you think a lot of Islamic terrorism exists?
Do you think western foreign policy might be a reason?
So how do you explain Islamic terrorism committed on other Muslims during the 8th Century.
You are also forgetting the Quran which compels violence against infidels. Is this to be blamed on the West too,
Mrs x
Has there never been non-Muslim on non-Muslim conflict?
UK hardly in a position to judge bearing in mind the centuries old conflict surrounding Ireland is it? This is not conflict, it's terrorism. It's suicide bombings, beheading not conflict.
If the zUK is such a bad place and it's weighing on your conscience, why don't you imigrate to the Middle East, see how bad it is then,
Mrs x
So there was no terrorism in Ireland on both sides?
Do me a favour. Never said there wasn't. Know lots about the terrorism on both sides, that's why my father took us out of the country and I've never been back. Know all about the terrorism in Ireland.
But sticking to the Middle East. It amazes me, all these virtue signalling, terrorist apologists, sat in the comfort of their homes, enjoying all the rights and protections afforded by Western democracy, supporting Hamas and the like and yet so few who actually do anything about it. Go on they have called for a 'Holy War' help them fight against tge infidel.
But that's not going to happen, especially when The Chase starts soon and you are having a chippy tea, haha.
Mrs x"We can all put a twisted & biased slant on things can’t we? Should we ignore the fact that the state of Israel itself was in no small part built on terrorism? Irgun? Stern Gang etc? | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
" Just out of interest where would you chose for the Jews to have a homeland? Mrs x There were actually proposals & floated ideas such as these: The Nazis proposed moving the Jews to Madagascar before ahem resorting to other options Other ideas: Uganda/East Africa British Guiana Argentina Cyprus As I said, I thought of the Falklands personally because of its low population The entire Jewish culture was formed in ancient Israel - their calendar, celebrations, language, prayers; it all originates from that land. And you're basically saying that they could have been sent anywhere except their homeland, even preferring the Nazi idea of Madagascar rather than allowing them self-determination.
Well they were defeated & driven out millennia ago weren’t they? Like I said, plenty of other peoples around the world can claim to have been treated unfairly & also more recently too.
Almost as many Jews live in the US as live in Israel. They seem to be doing ok don’t they?
Lots of countries can also claim to have been formed and founded in the last two hundred years, in places occupied by others but you have no problems with that it seems. Look at a map of Europe it looks a lot different since then.
As for you American argument, you have no empathy for Native Americans then, there's only been peace for a relatively short period of time.
Also lots of people and nationalities seem to do ok over in America, does that mean everyone should go there from these countries? English, Irish, Germany, Spanish, should we all just throw ourselves upon their shores then?
At least the Jews have an historic claim and never left the place entirely.
Where do the Palestinians get their claim from. The country of Palestine, the kings of Palestine or because you are conflating Arabs with Palestinians, something the Saudis, Jordanian, Syrians would dispute.
Mrs x
I do have problems with a lot of that tbh & if you look at my previous posts, you will see that.
But I’m also a realist.
The state of Israel where it is located will never be at peace. The formation of it has ruffled too many feathers in the locality for that to ever be the case as far as I see.
Because it was a place of peace and harmony before wasn't it,
Mrs x
You could say that about the majority of the globe couldn’t you?
Does that mean we should continually create new causes for grievance if we have the means to avoid it? I'm not saying that at all. Should a country cease to exist because it has violent enemies?
You talk about pragmatism, not wanting violence, but the Jews have faced violence everywhere they have every been.
So how do you deal with that?
Maybe, being pragmatic, you wipe out such barbaric people first and then set up the Jewish community, free from the violence they have always suffered.
Mrs x
Wiping out barbaric people will never happen. By killing 50k people in Gaza, Israel only creates more resentment & hatred & more martyrs ready to die for the cause.Im not talking about those killed in Gaza.
I'm pointing out that the region contains the world's largest collection of terrorists. Islamic terrorism has claimed more lives in recent years than any other group.
It's not even against Jews but Christians and more surprisingly fellow Muslims.
The Jews are not the biggest problem here, not by a long shot. And should the Islamist terrorists succeed in wiping out the Jews, then the West is next, they will turn all their attention to other infidels and to not acknowledge this is just burying your head in the sand.
Mrs x
Why do you think a lot of Islamic terrorism exists?
Do you think western foreign policy might be a reason?
So how do you explain Islamic terrorism committed on other Muslims during the 8th Century.
You are also forgetting the Quran which compels violence against infidels. Is this to be blamed on the West too,
Mrs x
Has there never been non-Muslim on non-Muslim conflict?
UK hardly in a position to judge bearing in mind the centuries old conflict surrounding Ireland is it? This is not conflict, it's terrorism. It's suicide bombings, beheading not conflict.
If the zUK is such a bad place and it's weighing on your conscience, why don't you imigrate to the Middle East, see how bad it is then,
Mrs x
So there was no terrorism in Ireland on both sides?
Do me a favour. Never said there wasn't. Know lots about the terrorism on both sides, that's why my father took us out of the country and I've never been back. Know all about the terrorism in Ireland.
But sticking to the Middle East. It amazes me, all these virtue signalling, terrorist apologists, sat in the comfort of their homes, enjoying all the rights and protections afforded by Western democracy, supporting Hamas and the like and yet so few who actually do anything about it. Go on they have called for a 'Holy War' help them fight against tge infidel.
But that's not going to happen, especially when The Chase starts soon and you are having a chippy tea, haha.
Mrs x
We can all put a twisted & biased slant on things can’t we?
Should we ignore the fact that the state of Israel itself was in no small part built on terrorism? Irgun? Stern Gang etc?
"I'm not denying that bit as for the scale and scope, totally different to Islamist terrorism. It's actually more skin to the Irish terrorist. People who are fighting a cause to establish a state. Not saying that that's ok. However Islamic terrorism wants you, me, your missus, your kids, my kids everyone dead because we don't follow their faith. Name a Jewish terror group operati g today that's killed 100s of thousands of murders. Islamic terrorist groups have, this is modern history, going on now. I think it tops quarter of a million. And they don't care what religion you are so long as you don't follow their religion you are a legitimate target, you'll get virgins for each kill. So you think that they are the same, tgese vike terrorist thugs. Go live with them, take your wife and kids and I'm sure you wouldn't want to make the move permanent. Mrs x | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
" Just out of interest where would you chose for the Jews to have a homeland? Mrs x There were actually proposals & floated ideas such as these: The Nazis proposed moving the Jews to Madagascar before ahem resorting to other options Other ideas: Uganda/East Africa British Guiana Argentina Cyprus As I said, I thought of the Falklands personally because of its low population The entire Jewish culture was formed in ancient Israel - their calendar, celebrations, language, prayers; it all originates from that land. And you're basically saying that they could have been sent anywhere except their homeland, even preferring the Nazi idea of Madagascar rather than allowing them self-determination.
Well they were defeated & driven out millennia ago weren’t they? Like I said, plenty of other peoples around the world can claim to have been treated unfairly & also more recently too.
Almost as many Jews live in the US as live in Israel. They seem to be doing ok don’t they?
Lots of countries can also claim to have been formed and founded in the last two hundred years, in places occupied by others but you have no problems with that it seems. Look at a map of Europe it looks a lot different since then.
As for you American argument, you have no empathy for Native Americans then, there's only been peace for a relatively short period of time.
Also lots of people and nationalities seem to do ok over in America, does that mean everyone should go there from these countries? English, Irish, Germany, Spanish, should we all just throw ourselves upon their shores then?
At least the Jews have an historic claim and never left the place entirely.
Where do the Palestinians get their claim from. The country of Palestine, the kings of Palestine or because you are conflating Arabs with Palestinians, something the Saudis, Jordanian, Syrians would dispute.
Mrs x
I do have problems with a lot of that tbh & if you look at my previous posts, you will see that.
But I’m also a realist.
The state of Israel where it is located will never be at peace. The formation of it has ruffled too many feathers in the locality for that to ever be the case as far as I see.
Because it was a place of peace and harmony before wasn't it,
Mrs x
You could say that about the majority of the globe couldn’t you?
Does that mean we should continually create new causes for grievance if we have the means to avoid it? I'm not saying that at all. Should a country cease to exist because it has violent enemies?
You talk about pragmatism, not wanting violence, but the Jews have faced violence everywhere they have every been.
So how do you deal with that?
Maybe, being pragmatic, you wipe out such barbaric people first and then set up the Jewish community, free from the violence they have always suffered.
Mrs x
Wiping out barbaric people will never happen. By killing 50k people in Gaza, Israel only creates more resentment & hatred & more martyrs ready to die for the cause.Im not talking about those killed in Gaza.
I'm pointing out that the region contains the world's largest collection of terrorists. Islamic terrorism has claimed more lives in recent years than any other group.
It's not even against Jews but Christians and more surprisingly fellow Muslims.
The Jews are not the biggest problem here, not by a long shot. And should the Islamist terrorists succeed in wiping out the Jews, then the West is next, they will turn all their attention to other infidels and to not acknowledge this is just burying your head in the sand.
Mrs x
Why do you think a lot of Islamic terrorism exists?
Do you think western foreign policy might be a reason?
So how do you explain Islamic terrorism committed on other Muslims during the 8th Century.
You are also forgetting the Quran which compels violence against infidels. Is this to be blamed on the West too,
Mrs x
Has there never been non-Muslim on non-Muslim conflict?
UK hardly in a position to judge bearing in mind the centuries old conflict surrounding Ireland is it? This is not conflict, it's terrorism. It's suicide bombings, beheading not conflict.
If the zUK is such a bad place and it's weighing on your conscience, why don't you imigrate to the Middle East, see how bad it is then,
Mrs x
So there was no terrorism in Ireland on both sides?
Do me a favour. Never said there wasn't. Know lots about the terrorism on both sides, that's why my father took us out of the country and I've never been back. Know all about the terrorism in Ireland.
But sticking to the Middle East. It amazes me, all these virtue signalling, terrorist apologists, sat in the comfort of their homes, enjoying all the rights and protections afforded by Western democracy, supporting Hamas and the like and yet so few who actually do anything about it. Go on they have called for a 'Holy War' help them fight against tge infidel.
But that's not going to happen, especially when The Chase starts soon and you are having a chippy tea, haha.
Mrs x
We can all put a twisted & biased slant on things can’t we?
Should we ignore the fact that the state of Israel itself was in no small part built on terrorism? Irgun? Stern Gang etc?
I'm not denying that bit as for the scale and scope, totally different to Islamist terrorism. It's actually more skin to the Irish terrorist. People who are fighting a cause to establish a state. Not saying that that's ok.
However Islamic terrorism wants you, me, your missus, your kids, my kids everyone dead because we don't follow their faith.
Name a Jewish terror group operati g today that's killed 100s of thousands of murders. Islamic terrorist groups have, this is modern history, going on now. I think it tops quarter of a million. And they don't care what religion you are so long as you don't follow their religion you are a legitimate target, you'll get virgins for each kill.
So you think that they are the same, tgese vike terrorist thugs. Go live with them, take your wife and kids and I'm sure you wouldn't want to make the move permanent.
Mrs x"But the above again raises the question, why then, after 2000 years away, would you want to attempt to forcibly recreate an ancient state surrounded by neighbours who are hostile to the creation of such a state that had been wiped out originally? It absolutely defies logic imo. | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
" ...why then, after 2000 years away, would you want to attempt to forcibly recreate an ancient state surrounded by neighbours who are hostile to the creation of such a state that had been wiped out originally? It absolutely defies logic imo." True love. | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
" Just out of interest where would you chose for the Jews to have a homeland? Mrs x There were actually proposals & floated ideas such as these: The Nazis proposed moving the Jews to Madagascar before ahem resorting to other options Other ideas: Uganda/East Africa British Guiana Argentina Cyprus As I said, I thought of the Falklands personally because of its low population The entire Jewish culture was formed in ancient Israel - their calendar, celebrations, language, prayers; it all originates from that land. And you're basically saying that they could have been sent anywhere except their homeland, even preferring the Nazi idea of Madagascar rather than allowing them self-determination.
Well they were defeated & driven out millennia ago weren’t they? Like I said, plenty of other peoples around the world can claim to have been treated unfairly & also more recently too.
Almost as many Jews live in the US as live in Israel. They seem to be doing ok don’t they?
Lots of countries can also claim to have been formed and founded in the last two hundred years, in places occupied by others but you have no problems with that it seems. Look at a map of Europe it looks a lot different since then.
As for you American argument, you have no empathy for Native Americans then, there's only been peace for a relatively short period of time.
Also lots of people and nationalities seem to do ok over in America, does that mean everyone should go there from these countries? English, Irish, Germany, Spanish, should we all just throw ourselves upon their shores then?
At least the Jews have an historic claim and never left the place entirely.
Where do the Palestinians get their claim from. The country of Palestine, the kings of Palestine or because you are conflating Arabs with Palestinians, something the Saudis, Jordanian, Syrians would dispute.
Mrs x
I do have problems with a lot of that tbh & if you look at my previous posts, you will see that.
But I’m also a realist.
The state of Israel where it is located will never be at peace. The formation of it has ruffled too many feathers in the locality for that to ever be the case as far as I see.
Because it was a place of peace and harmony before wasn't it,
Mrs x
You could say that about the majority of the globe couldn’t you?
Does that mean we should continually create new causes for grievance if we have the means to avoid it? I'm not saying that at all. Should a country cease to exist because it has violent enemies?
You talk about pragmatism, not wanting violence, but the Jews have faced violence everywhere they have every been.
So how do you deal with that?
Maybe, being pragmatic, you wipe out such barbaric people first and then set up the Jewish community, free from the violence they have always suffered.
Mrs x
Wiping out barbaric people will never happen. By killing 50k people in Gaza, Israel only creates more resentment & hatred & more martyrs ready to die for the cause.Im not talking about those killed in Gaza.
I'm pointing out that the region contains the world's largest collection of terrorists. Islamic terrorism has claimed more lives in recent years than any other group.
It's not even against Jews but Christians and more surprisingly fellow Muslims.
The Jews are not the biggest problem here, not by a long shot. And should the Islamist terrorists succeed in wiping out the Jews, then the West is next, they will turn all their attention to other infidels and to not acknowledge this is just burying your head in the sand.
Mrs x
Why do you think a lot of Islamic terrorism exists?
Do you think western foreign policy might be a reason?
So how do you explain Islamic terrorism committed on other Muslims during the 8th Century.
You are also forgetting the Quran which compels violence against infidels. Is this to be blamed on the West too,
Mrs x
Has there never been non-Muslim on non-Muslim conflict?
UK hardly in a position to judge bearing in mind the centuries old conflict surrounding Ireland is it? This is not conflict, it's terrorism. It's suicide bombings, beheading not conflict.
If the zUK is such a bad place and it's weighing on your conscience, why don't you imigrate to the Middle East, see how bad it is then,
Mrs x
So there was no terrorism in Ireland on both sides?
Do me a favour. Never said there wasn't. Know lots about the terrorism on both sides, that's why my father took us out of the country and I've never been back. Know all about the terrorism in Ireland.
But sticking to the Middle East. It amazes me, all these virtue signalling, terrorist apologists, sat in the comfort of their homes, enjoying all the rights and protections afforded by Western democracy, supporting Hamas and the like and yet so few who actually do anything about it. Go on they have called for a 'Holy War' help them fight against tge infidel.
But that's not going to happen, especially when The Chase starts soon and you are having a chippy tea, haha.
Mrs x
We can all put a twisted & biased slant on things can’t we?
Should we ignore the fact that the state of Israel itself was in no small part built on terrorism? Irgun? Stern Gang etc?
I'm not denying that bit as for the scale and scope, totally different to Islamist terrorism. It's actually more skin to the Irish terrorist. People who are fighting a cause to establish a state. Not saying that that's ok.
However Islamic terrorism wants you, me, your missus, your kids, my kids everyone dead because we don't follow their faith.
Name a Jewish terror group operati g today that's killed 100s of thousands of murders. Islamic terrorist groups have, this is modern history, going on now. I think it tops quarter of a million. And they don't care what religion you are so long as you don't follow their religion you are a legitimate target, you'll get virgins for each kill.
So you think that they are the same, tgese vike terrorist thugs. Go live with them, take your wife and kids and I'm sure you wouldn't want to make the move permanent.
Mrs x
But the above again raises the question, why then, after 2000 years away, would you want to attempt to forcibly recreate an ancient state surrounded by neighbours who are hostile to the creation of such a state that had been wiped out originally?
It absolutely defies logic imo."The current i habitats didn't 'wipe out' the kingdoms of Israel and Judea. The Romans kick the Jews out. You go on to say it defies logic but by your own argument you prefer the Jews to be located in countries, they have no ties with, no bonds, no history or culture. And you ignore the fact that Jews have lived in the area constantly, but in much lesser numbers, than before the Roman expulsion. Why is that? Mrs x | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
" ...why then, after 2000 years away, would you want to attempt to forcibly recreate an ancient state surrounded by neighbours who are hostile to the creation of such a state that had been wiped out originally? It absolutely defies logic imo. True love." Love that, wish I'd read this first haha, Mrs x | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
" Just out of interest where would you chose for the Jews to have a homeland? Mrs x There were actually proposals & floated ideas such as these: The Nazis proposed moving the Jews to Madagascar before ahem resorting to other options Other ideas: Uganda/East Africa British Guiana Argentina Cyprus As I said, I thought of the Falklands personally because of its low population The entire Jewish culture was formed in ancient Israel - their calendar, celebrations, language, prayers; it all originates from that land. And you're basically saying that they could have been sent anywhere except their homeland, even preferring the Nazi idea of Madagascar rather than allowing them self-determination.
Well they were defeated & driven out millennia ago weren’t they? Like I said, plenty of other peoples around the world can claim to have been treated unfairly & also more recently too.
Almost as many Jews live in the US as live in Israel. They seem to be doing ok don’t they?
Lots of countries can also claim to have been formed and founded in the last two hundred years, in places occupied by others but you have no problems with that it seems. Look at a map of Europe it looks a lot different since then.
As for you American argument, you have no empathy for Native Americans then, there's only been peace for a relatively short period of time.
Also lots of people and nationalities seem to do ok over in America, does that mean everyone should go there from these countries? English, Irish, Germany, Spanish, should we all just throw ourselves upon their shores then?
At least the Jews have an historic claim and never left the place entirely.
Where do the Palestinians get their claim from. The country of Palestine, the kings of Palestine or because you are conflating Arabs with Palestinians, something the Saudis, Jordanian, Syrians would dispute.
Mrs x
I do have problems with a lot of that tbh & if you look at my previous posts, you will see that.
But I’m also a realist.
The state of Israel where it is located will never be at peace. The formation of it has ruffled too many feathers in the locality for that to ever be the case as far as I see.
Because it was a place of peace and harmony before wasn't it,
Mrs x
You could say that about the majority of the globe couldn’t you?
Does that mean we should continually create new causes for grievance if we have the means to avoid it? I'm not saying that at all. Should a country cease to exist because it has violent enemies?
You talk about pragmatism, not wanting violence, but the Jews have faced violence everywhere they have every been.
So how do you deal with that?
Maybe, being pragmatic, you wipe out such barbaric people first and then set up the Jewish community, free from the violence they have always suffered.
Mrs x
Wiping out barbaric people will never happen. By killing 50k people in Gaza, Israel only creates more resentment & hatred & more martyrs ready to die for the cause.Im not talking about those killed in Gaza.
I'm pointing out that the region contains the world's largest collection of terrorists. Islamic terrorism has claimed more lives in recent years than any other group.
It's not even against Jews but Christians and more surprisingly fellow Muslims.
The Jews are not the biggest problem here, not by a long shot. And should the Islamist terrorists succeed in wiping out the Jews, then the West is next, they will turn all their attention to other infidels and to not acknowledge this is just burying your head in the sand.
Mrs x
Why do you think a lot of Islamic terrorism exists?
Do you think western foreign policy might be a reason?
So how do you explain Islamic terrorism committed on other Muslims during the 8th Century.
You are also forgetting the Quran which compels violence against infidels. Is this to be blamed on the West too,
Mrs x
Has there never been non-Muslim on non-Muslim conflict?
UK hardly in a position to judge bearing in mind the centuries old conflict surrounding Ireland is it? This is not conflict, it's terrorism. It's suicide bombings, beheading not conflict.
If the zUK is such a bad place and it's weighing on your conscience, why don't you imigrate to the Middle East, see how bad it is then,
Mrs x
So there was no terrorism in Ireland on both sides?
Do me a favour. Never said there wasn't. Know lots about the terrorism on both sides, that's why my father took us out of the country and I've never been back. Know all about the terrorism in Ireland.
But sticking to the Middle East. It amazes me, all these virtue signalling, terrorist apologists, sat in the comfort of their homes, enjoying all the rights and protections afforded by Western democracy, supporting Hamas and the like and yet so few who actually do anything about it. Go on they have called for a 'Holy War' help them fight against tge infidel.
But that's not going to happen, especially when The Chase starts soon and you are having a chippy tea, haha.
Mrs x
We can all put a twisted & biased slant on things can’t we?
Should we ignore the fact that the state of Israel itself was in no small part built on terrorism? Irgun? Stern Gang etc?
I'm not denying that bit as for the scale and scope, totally different to Islamist terrorism. It's actually more skin to the Irish terrorist. People who are fighting a cause to establish a state. Not saying that that's ok.
However Islamic terrorism wants you, me, your missus, your kids, my kids everyone dead because we don't follow their faith.
Name a Jewish terror group operati g today that's killed 100s of thousands of murders. Islamic terrorist groups have, this is modern history, going on now. I think it tops quarter of a million. And they don't care what religion you are so long as you don't follow their religion you are a legitimate target, you'll get virgins for each kill.
So you think that they are the same, tgese vike terrorist thugs. Go live with them, take your wife and kids and I'm sure you wouldn't want to make the move permanent.
Mrs x
But the above again raises the question, why then, after 2000 years away, would you want to attempt to forcibly recreate an ancient state surrounded by neighbours who are hostile to the creation of such a state that had been wiped out originally?
It absolutely defies logic imo.The current i habitats didn't 'wipe out' the kingdoms of Israel and Judea. The Romans kick the Jews out.
You go on to say it defies logic but by your own argument you prefer the Jews to be located in countries, they have no ties with, no bonds, no history or culture. And you ignore the fact that Jews have lived in the area constantly, but in much lesser numbers, than before the Roman expulsion. Why is that?
Mrs x"I know who kicked the Jews out. Again, can only ask do you think this policy is going well then after a century of it? Happy to have all this bloodshed? | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
" ...why then, after 2000 years away, would you want to attempt to forcibly recreate an ancient state surrounded by neighbours who are hostile to the creation of such a state that had been wiped out originally? It absolutely defies logic imo. True love." Well, I for one am glad I’ve got no blood on my hands pushing this ridiculous policy, so my conscience is completely clear. | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
" Just out of interest where would you chose for the Jews to have a homeland? Mrs x There were actually proposals & floated ideas such as these: The Nazis proposed moving the Jews to Madagascar before ahem resorting to other options Other ideas: Uganda/East Africa British Guiana Argentina Cyprus As I said, I thought of the Falklands personally because of its low population The entire Jewish culture was formed in ancient Israel - their calendar, celebrations, language, prayers; it all originates from that land. And you're basically saying that they could have been sent anywhere except their homeland, even preferring the Nazi idea of Madagascar rather than allowing them self-determination.
Well they were defeated & driven out millennia ago weren’t they? Like I said, plenty of other peoples around the world can claim to have been treated unfairly & also more recently too.
Almost as many Jews live in the US as live in Israel. They seem to be doing ok don’t they?
Lots of countries can also claim to have been formed and founded in the last two hundred years, in places occupied by others but you have no problems with that it seems. Look at a map of Europe it looks a lot different since then.
As for you American argument, you have no empathy for Native Americans then, there's only been peace for a relatively short period of time.
Also lots of people and nationalities seem to do ok over in America, does that mean everyone should go there from these countries? English, Irish, Germany, Spanish, should we all just throw ourselves upon their shores then?
At least the Jews have an historic claim and never left the place entirely.
Where do the Palestinians get their claim from. The country of Palestine, the kings of Palestine or because you are conflating Arabs with Palestinians, something the Saudis, Jordanian, Syrians would dispute.
Mrs x
I do have problems with a lot of that tbh & if you look at my previous posts, you will see that.
But I’m also a realist.
The state of Israel where it is located will never be at peace. The formation of it has ruffled too many feathers in the locality for that to ever be the case as far as I see.
Because it was a place of peace and harmony before wasn't it,
Mrs x
You could say that about the majority of the globe couldn’t you?
Does that mean we should continually create new causes for grievance if we have the means to avoid it? I'm not saying that at all. Should a country cease to exist because it has violent enemies?
You talk about pragmatism, not wanting violence, but the Jews have faced violence everywhere they have every been.
So how do you deal with that?
Maybe, being pragmatic, you wipe out such barbaric people first and then set up the Jewish community, free from the violence they have always suffered.
Mrs x
Wiping out barbaric people will never happen. By killing 50k people in Gaza, Israel only creates more resentment & hatred & more martyrs ready to die for the cause.Im not talking about those killed in Gaza.
I'm pointing out that the region contains the world's largest collection of terrorists. Islamic terrorism has claimed more lives in recent years than any other group.
It's not even against Jews but Christians and more surprisingly fellow Muslims.
The Jews are not the biggest problem here, not by a long shot. And should the Islamist terrorists succeed in wiping out the Jews, then the West is next, they will turn all their attention to other infidels and to not acknowledge this is just burying your head in the sand.
Mrs x
Why do you think a lot of Islamic terrorism exists?
Do you think western foreign policy might be a reason?
So how do you explain Islamic terrorism committed on other Muslims during the 8th Century.
You are also forgetting the Quran which compels violence against infidels. Is this to be blamed on the West too,
Mrs x
Has there never been non-Muslim on non-Muslim conflict?
UK hardly in a position to judge bearing in mind the centuries old conflict surrounding Ireland is it? This is not conflict, it's terrorism. It's suicide bombings, beheading not conflict.
If the zUK is such a bad place and it's weighing on your conscience, why don't you imigrate to the Middle East, see how bad it is then,
Mrs x
So there was no terrorism in Ireland on both sides?
Do me a favour. Never said there wasn't. Know lots about the terrorism on both sides, that's why my father took us out of the country and I've never been back. Know all about the terrorism in Ireland.
But sticking to the Middle East. It amazes me, all these virtue signalling, terrorist apologists, sat in the comfort of their homes, enjoying all the rights and protections afforded by Western democracy, supporting Hamas and the like and yet so few who actually do anything about it. Go on they have called for a 'Holy War' help them fight against tge infidel.
But that's not going to happen, especially when The Chase starts soon and you are having a chippy tea, haha.
Mrs x
We can all put a twisted & biased slant on things can’t we?
Should we ignore the fact that the state of Israel itself was in no small part built on terrorism? Irgun? Stern Gang etc?
I'm not denying that bit as for the scale and scope, totally different to Islamist terrorism. It's actually more skin to the Irish terrorist. People who are fighting a cause to establish a state. Not saying that that's ok.
However Islamic terrorism wants you, me, your missus, your kids, my kids everyone dead because we don't follow their faith.
Name a Jewish terror group operati g today that's killed 100s of thousands of murders. Islamic terrorist groups have, this is modern history, going on now. I think it tops quarter of a million. And they don't care what religion you are so long as you don't follow their religion you are a legitimate target, you'll get virgins for each kill.
So you think that they are the same, tgese vike terrorist thugs. Go live with them, take your wife and kids and I'm sure you wouldn't want to make the move permanent.
Mrs x
But the above again raises the question, why then, after 2000 years away, would you want to attempt to forcibly recreate an ancient state surrounded by neighbours who are hostile to the creation of such a state that had been wiped out originally?
It absolutely defies logic imo.The current i habitats didn't 'wipe out' the kingdoms of Israel and Judea. The Romans kick the Jews out.
You go on to say it defies logic but by your own argument you prefer the Jews to be located in countries, they have no ties with, no bonds, no history or culture. And you ignore the fact that Jews have lived in the area constantly, but in much lesser numbers, than before the Roman expulsion. Why is that?
Mrs x
I know who kicked the Jews out.
Again, can only ask do you think this policy is going well then after a century of it? Happy to have all this bloodshed?"There have been periods of rrelative calm but surrounded by countries, who have all at some point attacked you makes it difficult for Israel. However normalisation with other countries is a step forward. Saudi was about to do this just before tge 7th October so Hamas really fucked that for Israel. So progress has been made slowly, Mrs x | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
| |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"Israel has new lands the West Bank and Gaza the new resort in Israel." Gaza used to have a thriving Jewish community prior to 1948, and the correct name for the West Bank is Judea and Samaria - literally where Jews and Samaritans get their names. So, not new lands at all. | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
" Should we ignore the fact that the state of Israel itself was in no small part built on terrorism? Irgun? Stern Gang etc? " Israel would have formed without those groups, but the British interred 55,000 Jewish refugees in camps in Cyprus and introduced a White Paper to appease Arabs and limit Jews from arriving during the Holocaust. It's hardly surprising that people got pissed off and fought back - but they largely targeted the British administration, unlike Arabs who were targeting Jewish civilians. | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
| |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"I would recommend that people watch Blinne Ní Ghrálaig's very recent address to the International Court of Justice. If you google Irish lawyer ICJ you should be able to find it on youtube. It's nearly 40 minutes long so probably not for all." Yes it is obvious that starving people deliberately is bad and people think it is okay which I do not | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
| |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
| |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"There has been a large amount of money gone in over the last few years. Israel has a leader who seems to be basically untouchable home and abroad. There is violence. In Palestine and in Gaza. " And in Israel too and Yemen and Beirut and Sudan and all of the bombs are labelled "made in America" | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"Israel would have formed without those groups, but the British interred 55,000 Jewish refugees in camps in Cyprus and introduced a White Paper to appease Arabs and limit Jews from arriving during the Holocaust." Just to be clear, those detentions in Cyprus didn't begin until August 1946. | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
" They say that they want peace and live together with the Muslims but look at their flag. It is a Jewish based flag and symbol that the Zionist movement has grabbed for themselves. " That makes as much sense as complaining that the English flag is English. Israel is in Eretz Israel. It literally is the historical Jewish land. Palestine never had a flag or a currency or any non-Jewish history of any relevance. | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
" They say that they want peace and live together with the Muslims but look at their flag. It is a Jewish based flag and symbol that the Zionist movement has grabbed for themselves. That makes as much sense as complaining that the English flag is English. Israel is in Eretz Israel. It literally is the historical Jewish land. Palestine never had a flag or a currency or any non-Jewish history of any relevance." You have not explained the lies of Israel here and you addition have omitted all I said on your arguement. I see you did not want to post all I said so I shall repeat the Israeli flag is a star of David with two blue lines depicting the river and the sea which shows their intentions. They are extremists from Europe who will not share with anyone including even Christian faiths. They are extremists and even Jews with a sense of decency are against. Deliberately starving all of Gaza to death shows what they are like. Do you have an excuse to starve everyone to death? I bet you do. The Union flag is based on nations and not a flag of a extremist depiction of a religion if people understand my explanation. | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
" the Israeli flag is a star of David with two blue lines depicting the river and the sea which shows their intentions. " Wrong. It is based upon the Jewish prayer shawl (tallit). Even your bonkers conspiracy theory is misquoted: "Yasser Arafat claimed that the two blue stripes on the Israeli flag represent the Nile and Euphrates rivers and allege that Israel desires to eventually seize all the land in between." https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flag_of_Israel " They are extremists from Europe who will not share with anyone including even Christian faiths. " A majority of Jews in Israel are descended from Arab/Islamic/African or Middle Eastern countries, not Europe: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_Israel | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
| |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
| |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"Israel has new lands the West Bank and Gaza the new resort in Israel. Gaza used to have a thriving Jewish community prior to 1948, and the correct name for the West Bank is Judea and Samaria - literally where Jews and Samaritans get their names. So, not new lands at all. " yes trumps new resort with benny the rivera of Gaza haven't you heard they want to clear all Palestinians from Gaza and build a resort. it was all over the news. | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
" the Israeli flag is a star of David with two blue lines depicting the river and the sea which shows their intentions. Wrong. It is based upon the Jewish prayer shawl (tallit). Even your bonkers conspiracy theory is misquoted: "Yasser Arafat claimed that the two blue stripes on the Israeli flag represent the Nile and Euphrates rivers and allege that Israel desires to eventually seize all the land in between." https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flag_of_Israel They are extremists from Europe who will not share with anyone including even Christian faiths. A majority of Jews in Israel are descended from Arab/Islamic/African or Middle Eastern countries, not Europe: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_Israel" Then explain to me why Israel is allowed into eurovision if they are not from Europe? They are miles away from Europe! Why is the flag of Israel a dominant Jewish flag when they utter nonsense about bring inclusive country and lastly but the most important issue that is troubling me the most why are Israel starving all in Gaza to death denying fodd watar medicine? Answer this for me. And why is baby incubators being denied into Gaza? I see you only answer some of what I say not all. You are a person who allows IDF to keep changing their version of stories until it finally suits the media? | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
" yes trumps new resort with benny the rivera of Gaza haven't you heard they want to clear all Palestinians from Gaza and build a resort. it was all over the news." Costa del Bibi, complete with free nightly firework shows | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"Then explain to me why Israel is allowed into eurovision if they are not from Europe? They are miles away from Europe! " What has that to do with anything? You can easily Google the answer to that. " Why is the flag of Israel a dominant Jewish flag when they utter nonsense about bring inclusive country... " Because it's an unapologetically Jewish country, that attempts to coexist with others who live within it. You can be inclusive while retaining your identity, right? Not that all countries in the region manage it terribly well. " ...and lastly but the most important issue that is troubling me the most why are Israel starving all in Gaza to death denying fodd watar medicine? Answer this for me. And why is baby incubators being denied into Gaza? " Why are you asking this as some massive compound question intermingled with the Israeli flag? Are you seeking answers, or making a statement? It looks more like the latter, in which case you'd be better off just making a coherent point. Your question presumes Israel is "starving all in Gaza to death", which is clearly nonsense. You cannot simply spout nonsense at random people in forums and demand answers to said nonsense. " I see you only answer some of what I say not all. " So? You put out some objective untruths; they were addressed. Getting dragged into the gutter of subjective moral debate on certain topics, in some instances, is more of an exercise in futility. " You are a person who allows IDF to keep changing their version of stories until it finally suits the media? " Nope. That looks awfully like an accusation framed as a question. | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"Then explain to me why Israel is allowed into eurovision if they are not from Europe? They are miles away from Europe! What has that to do with anything? You can easily Google the answer to that. Why is the flag of Israel a dominant Jewish flag when they utter nonsense about bring inclusive country... Because it's an unapologetically Jewish country, that attempts to coexist with others who live within it. You can be inclusive while retaining your identity, right? Not that all countries in the region manage it terribly well. ...and lastly but the most important issue that is troubling me the most why are Israel starving all in Gaza to death denying fodd watar medicine? Answer this for me. And why is baby incubators being denied into Gaza? Why are you asking this as some massive compound question intermingled with the Israeli flag? Are you seeking answers, or making a statement? It looks more like the latter, in which case you'd be better off just making a coherent point. Your question presumes Israel is "starving all in Gaza to death", which is clearly nonsense. You cannot simply spout nonsense at random people in forums and demand answers to said nonsense. I see you only answer some of what I say not all. So? You put out some objective untruths; they were addressed. Getting dragged into the gutter of subjective moral debate on certain topics, in some instances, is more of an exercise in futility. You are a person who allows IDF to keep changing their version of stories until it finally suits the media? Nope. That looks awfully like an accusation framed as a question." Spot on, Mrs x | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
| |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"I have had my fill of people like you who gives lectures from a soft sofa... ...I wish to put my bad life behind me and enjoy life and sip cocktails wear Hawaii shirts and shorts..." On a soft sofa? | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
| |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"Having watched the Louis Theroux documentary, the Israeli settlers are equally as bad and are equivalent to Hamas. There is no hope for the Palestinians with people like that." They are complete nutjobs. More moderate voices are needed. As that crazy woman said, they got a lot more support due to October 7th. Both sides need to step back from the brink, but it won't be that easy. | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
| |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"Soft people here dare not criticise Israel in their starvation of all people the innocent the children the babies the old the sick the invalids this because they are cowards like the soft person on his sofa giving me lectures on what is right and what is wrong and the coward admires the netenyahu monster " What do you think of Hamas? Do you agree that they should steal whatever aid gets into Gaza to fund their terrorist activities? How do you think this deliberate deprivation of aid from their own people could be stopped? Mrs x | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
| |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"midnight_mango. I agree with much of what you are saying but if you toned it down a little you would perhaps have a bit more impact on people's opinions. I look at what's happening in Gaza (what little we can know, as the Israeli government won't allow independent observers near the place) and am shocked that the world isn't putting far more pressure on Israel to allow in basic resources like water, food and medicine. Even if your anger is fully justified (which I think it is), screaming in people's faces isn't going to change their minds. We need to make coherent arguments that make people think things like "what if my child was in the same situation?". " Actually, his blind hatred of Israel is educational for those who don't understand the mentality of those in the region who are brought up with such sentiments with mother's milk. Occasionally we get them in the forum. You get to see the nonsense with which people are indoctrinated, including stuff about "true Jews", Israel as perpetual aggressors and a revision of history. You get this kind of thing on Iranian and Egyptian TV (among others). | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"midnight_mango. I agree with much of what you are saying but if you toned it down a little you would perhaps have a bit more impact on people's opinions. I look at what's happening in Gaza (what little we can know, as the Israeli government won't allow independent observers near the place) and am shocked that the world isn't putting far more pressure on Israel to allow in basic resources like water, food and medicine. Even if your anger is fully justified (which I think it is), screaming in people's faces isn't going to change their minds. We need to make coherent arguments that make people think things like "what if my child was in the same situation?". Actually, his blind hatred of Israel is educational for those who don't understand the mentality of those in the region who are brought up with such sentiments with mother's milk. Occasionally we get them in the forum. You get to see the nonsense with which people are indoctrinated, including stuff about "true Jews", Israel as perpetual aggressors and a revision of history. You get this kind of thing on Iranian and Egyptian TV (among others)." Exactly, Mrs x | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"Actually, his blind hatred of Israel is educational for those who don't understand the mentality of those in the region who are brought up with such sentiments with mother's milk. Occasionally we get them in the forum. You get to see the nonsense with which people are indoctrinated, including stuff about "true Jews", Israel as perpetual aggressors and a revision of history. You get this kind of thing on Iranian and Egyptian TV (among others)." I have no doubt that there is plenty of blind hatred on all sides. But young kids in Gaza aren't antisemitic. they have no concept of what this even means, they are just being bombed and are facing starvation. | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
| |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"But young kids in Gaza aren't antisemitic. they have no concept of what this even means, they are just being bombed and are facing starvation." They use The Protocols of The Elders of Zion as a school textbook ffs. | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"They use The Protocols of The Elders of Zion as a school textbook ffs." The kids I'm talking about don't go to schools. | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"Actually, his blind hatred of Israel is educational for those who don't understand the mentality of those in the region who are brought up with such sentiments with mother's milk. Occasionally we get them in the forum. You get to see the nonsense with which people are indoctrinated, including stuff about "true Jews", Israel as perpetual aggressors and a revision of history. You get this kind of thing on Iranian and Egyptian TV (among others). I have no doubt that there is plenty of blind hatred on all sides. But young kids in Gaza aren't antisemitic. they have no concept of what this even means, they are just being bombed and are facing starvation." But that's what happens in war, its terrible but that's a fact. Mrs x | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
| |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"They use The Protocols of The Elders of Zion as a school textbook ffs. The kids I'm talking about don't go to schools." Which kids, those you know personally? Mrs x | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"Actually, his blind hatred of Israel is educational for those who don't understand the mentality of those in the region who are brought up with such sentiments with mother's milk. Occasionally we get them in the forum. You get to see the nonsense with which people are indoctrinated, including stuff about "true Jews", Israel as perpetual aggressors and a revision of history. You get this kind of thing on Iranian and Egyptian TV (among others). I have no doubt that there is plenty of blind hatred on all sides. But young kids in Gaza aren't antisemitic. they have no concept of what this even means, they are just being bombed and are facing starvation.But that's what happens in war, its terrible but that's a fact. Mrs x" It’s also a fact that collective punishment is a war crime. | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"Actually, his blind hatred of Israel is educational for those who don't understand the mentality of those in the region who are brought up with such sentiments with mother's milk. Occasionally we get them in the forum. You get to see the nonsense with which people are indoctrinated, including stuff about "true Jews", Israel as perpetual aggressors and a revision of history. You get this kind of thing on Iranian and Egyptian TV (among others). I have no doubt that there is plenty of blind hatred on all sides. But young kids in Gaza aren't antisemitic. they have no concept of what this even means, they are just being bombed and are facing starvation.But that's what happens in war, its terrible but that's a fact. Mrs x It’s also a fact that collective punishment is a war crime." As is hiding behind human shields, Mrs x | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"58 days since Israel let any aid into Gaza. No water, food or medicine. UNICEF warning that 335,000 children under the age of 5 are at severe risk of malnutrition." Here's an idea that nobody seems to think of. How about Hamas release their remaining hostages? 🤔 | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"Actually, his blind hatred of Israel is educational for those who don't understand the mentality of those in the region who are brought up with such sentiments with mother's milk. Occasionally we get them in the forum. You get to see the nonsense with which people are indoctrinated, including stuff about "true Jews", Israel as perpetual aggressors and a revision of history. You get this kind of thing on Iranian and Egyptian TV (among others). I have no doubt that there is plenty of blind hatred on all sides. But young kids in Gaza aren't antisemitic. they have no concept of what this even means, they are just being bombed and are facing starvation.But that's what happens in war, its terrible but that's a fact. Mrs x It’s also a fact that collective punishment is a war crime.As is hiding behind human shields, Mrs x" Sure & I have absolutely NO objections to Hamas facing justice through the international courts for their undoubted war crimes. I also have no objections to those within this Israeli regime who are enabling the collective punishment of all Gazans facing justice in a similar way. How about you? | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"58 days since Israel let any aid into Gaza. No water, food or medicine. UNICEF warning that 335,000 children under the age of 5 are at severe risk of malnutrition. Here's an idea that nobody seems to think of. How about Hamas release their remaining hostages? 🤔" Yeah they could do that, but the group responsible are opting not to do that. That doesn’t mean you get to starve a third of a million kids under 5 in the general civilian population to try & get the result you want. Unless you’re Netanyahu’s Israel of course. | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"58 days since Israel let any aid into Gaza. No water, food or medicine. UNICEF warning that 335,000 children under the age of 5 are at severe risk of malnutrition. Here's an idea that nobody seems to think of. How about Hamas release their remaining hostages? 🤔 Yeah they could do that, but the group responsible are opting not to do that. That doesn’t mean you get to starve a third of a million kids under 5 in the general civilian population to try & get the result you want. Unless you’re Netanyahu’s Israel of course." You are always saying what shouldn't be done, what should be done to solve this then, any ideas? Mrs x | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"58 days since Israel let any aid into Gaza. No water, food or medicine. UNICEF warning that 335,000 children under the age of 5 are at severe risk of malnutrition. Here's an idea that nobody seems to think of. How about Hamas release their remaining hostages? 🤔 Yeah they could do that, but the group responsible are opting not to do that. That doesn’t mean you get to starve a third of a million kids under 5 in the general civilian population to try & get the result you want. Unless you’re Netanyahu’s Israel of course.You are always saying what shouldn't be done, what should be done to solve this then, any ideas? Mrs x" About this specifically? Not really, apart from more talking to get back to the ceasefire/hostage/prisoner exchanges as before More generally, it needs more moderate politicians than Hamas & Netanyahu with Ben Gvir in his ear. | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"Yeah they could do that, but the group responsible are opting not to do that." Therefore they are entirely responsible for the consequences- unless of course you want to appease terrorism and send a message that massacres, hostage taking and weaponised r^pe are acceptable behaviours. | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"Soft people here dare not criticise Israel in their starvation of all people the innocent the children the babies the old the sick the invalids this because they are cowards like the soft person on his sofa giving me lectures on what is right and what is wrong and the coward admires the netenyahu monster What do you think of Hamas? Do you agree that they should steal whatever aid gets into Gaza to fund their terrorist activities? How do you think this deliberate deprivation of aid from their own people could be stopped? Mrs x" Hamas attacking unarmed people are not any good and no better. They are the children of Israel's evil upon the arabs | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"Yeah they could do that, but the group responsible are opting not to do that. Therefore they are entirely responsible for the consequences- unless of course you want to appease terrorism and send a message that massacres, hostage taking and weaponised r^pe are acceptable behaviours. "You are too far down the pro Israel rabbit hole. You are condoning a war crime, the deliberate mass starvation of thousands of innocent children. Think about that. | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
| |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"Yeah they could do that, but the group responsible are opting not to do that. Therefore they are entirely responsible for the consequences- unless of course you want to appease terrorism and send a message that massacres, hostage taking and weaponised r^pe are acceptable behaviours. "Do you take the persona of a hart of poison to look the big man? Or do you believe that your poison you emit ? Many people's hearts are full of poison | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"Yeah they could do that, but the group responsible are opting not to do that. Therefore they are entirely responsible for the consequences- unless of course you want to appease terrorism and send a message that massacres, hostage taking and weaponised r^pe are acceptable behaviours.
You are too far down the pro Israel rabbit hole.
You are condoning a war crime, the deliberate mass starvation of thousands of innocent children.
Think about that." | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"I have had my fill of people like you who gives lectures from a soft sofa... ...I wish to put my bad life behind me and enjoy life and sip cocktails wear Hawaii shirts and shorts... On a soft sofa? "Yes your sofa whilst you go out f your house and learn how to be shot at and do a landmine dance instead of giving me a lecture on how my experience was from your little mind. I am glad you will not have to do this because your mind is weak as is us your soft decadent body and you would not survive in the real world. I see what you are saying just petty words like s child to defend your weak and fragile ego. | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"Actually, his blind hatred of Israel is educational for those who don't understand the mentality of those in the region who are brought up with such sentiments with mother's milk. Occasionally we get them in the forum. You get to see the nonsense with which people are indoctrinated, including stuff about "true Jews", Israel as perpetual aggressors and a revision of history. You get this kind of thing on Iranian and Egyptian TV (among others). I have no doubt that there is plenty of blind hatred on all sides. But young kids in Gaza aren't antisemitic. they have no concept of what this even means, they are just being bombed and are facing starvation.But that's what happens in war, its terrible but that's a fact. Mrs x It’s also a fact that collective punishment is a war crime.As is hiding behind human shields, Mrs x" The human shield does not stop IDF . For example they will kill aid workers | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"I have had my fill of people like you who gives lectures from a soft sofa... ...I wish to put my bad life behind me and enjoy life and sip cocktails wear Hawaii shirts and shorts... On a soft sofa?
Yes your sofa whilst you go out f your house and learn how to be shot at and do a landmine dance instead of giving me a lecture on how my experience was from your little mind.
I am glad you will not have to do this because your mind is weak as is us your soft decadent body and you would not survive in the real world.
I see what you are saying just petty words like s child to defend your weak and fragile ego."You seem to simultaneously despise and aspire to the "decadent West". Welcome to our country. | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"Actually, his blind hatred of Israel is educational for those who don't understand the mentality of those in the region who are brought up with such sentiments with mother's milk. Occasionally we get them in the forum. You get to see the nonsense with which people are indoctrinated, including stuff about "true Jews", Israel as perpetual aggressors and a revision of history. You get this kind of thing on Iranian and Egyptian TV (among others). I have no doubt that there is plenty of blind hatred on all sides. But young kids in Gaza aren't antisemitic. they have no concept of what this even means, they are just being bombed and are facing starvation.But that's what happens in war, its terrible but that's a fact. Mrs x It’s also a fact that collective punishment is a war crime.As is hiding behind human shields, Mrs x The human shield does not stop IDF . For example they will kill aid workers" That's why it's a war crime, Mrs x | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"I have had my fill of people like you who gives lectures from a soft sofa... ...I wish to put my bad life behind me and enjoy life and sip cocktails wear Hawaii shirts and shorts... On a soft sofa?
Yes your sofa whilst you go out f your house and learn how to be shot at and do a landmine dance instead of giving me a lecture on how my experience was from your little mind.
I am glad you will not have to do this because your mind is weak as is us your soft decadent body and you would not survive in the real world.
I see what you are saying just petty words like s child to defend your weak and fragile ego."Your saying this from behind your keyboard, you little warrior, you. I know Maghull is not Formby or even Crosby but it's not that bad. If you hate the West so much, why don't you take up the struggle, with your strong and macho ego and go live in a Muslim dictatorship, see how much you'd like it there with you non decadent body haha, Mrs x | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"Yeah they could do that, but the group responsible are opting not to do that. Therefore they are entirely responsible for the consequences- unless of course you want to appease terrorism and send a message that massacres, hostage taking and weaponised r^pe are acceptable behaviours.
You are too far down the pro Israel rabbit hole.
You are condoning a war crime, the deliberate mass starvation of thousands of innocent children.
Think about that."It is not a 'rabbit hole' to know who started it and how it could end. 1200 people were killed in the Oct 7th massacre - out of a population of 7 million. An equivalent amount of deaths in the British population would be around 10 thousand. How do you think any other sovereign state would respond to an act of war on this scale? | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"Yeah they could do that, but the group responsible are opting not to do that. Therefore they are entirely responsible for the consequences- unless of course you want to appease terrorism and send a message that massacres, hostage taking and weaponised r^pe are acceptable behaviours.
You are too far down the pro Israel rabbit hole.
You are condoning a war crime, the deliberate mass starvation of thousands of innocent children.
Think about that.
It is not a 'rabbit hole' to know who started it and how it could end.
1200 people were killed in the Oct 7th massacre - out of a population of 7 million. An equivalent amount of deaths in the British population would be around 10 thousand.
How do you think any other sovereign state would respond to an act of war on this scale?"Are you condoning war crimes whilst simultaneously condemning them? | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"Yeah they could do that, but the group responsible are opting not to do that. Therefore they are entirely responsible for the consequences- unless of course you want to appease terrorism and send a message that massacres, hostage taking and weaponised r^pe are acceptable behaviours.
You are too far down the pro Israel rabbit hole.
You are condoning a war crime, the deliberate mass starvation of thousands of innocent children.
Think about that.
It is not a 'rabbit hole' to know who started it and how it could end.
1200 people were killed in the Oct 7th massacre - out of a population of 7 million. An equivalent amount of deaths in the British population would be around 10 thousand.
How do you think any other sovereign state would respond to an act of war on this scale?"This correct. The Israel settlers started this with aggressive clearing of the land. | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"Yeah they could do that, but the group responsible are opting not to do that. Therefore they are entirely responsible for the consequences- unless of course you want to appease terrorism and send a message that massacres, hostage taking and weaponised r^pe are acceptable behaviours.
You are too far down the pro Israel rabbit hole.
You are condoning a war crime, the deliberate mass starvation of thousands of innocent children.
Think about that.
It is not a 'rabbit hole' to know who started it and how it could end.
1200 people were killed in the Oct 7th massacre - out of a population of 7 million. An equivalent amount of deaths in the British population would be around 10 thousand.
How do you think any other sovereign state would respond to an act of war on this scale?"They would not commit acts of genocide upon all if the innocent people The Israel government such as it is is based upon extremist views. The Zionist group has even corrupted the agreement that Arabs have equal rights the American politicians with Israel Public Affairs Committee, which is a Israel lobbying group in the United States. It advocates to corrupt the Americans to do and say illegal acts for Israel by filling their pockets with dollars Like many on here they are corrupt able and will only say what Israel tell them to say. They are posion in their souls like you who rationalise and even sit back while innocent people are murdered in the thousands . Is that a civilised country? | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"I have had my fill of people like you who gives lectures from a soft sofa... ...I wish to put my bad life behind me and enjoy life and sip cocktails wear Hawaii shirts and shorts... On a soft sofa?
Yes your sofa whilst you go out f your house and learn how to be shot at and do a landmine dance instead of giving me a lecture on how my experience was from your little mind.
I am glad you will not have to do this because your mind is weak as is us your soft decadent body and you would not survive in the real world.
I see what you are saying just petty words like s child to defend your weak and fragile ego.
You seem to simultaneously despise and aspire to the "decadent West". Welcome to our country."You are welcome to go to my country but I do not think you would survive. Perhaps you might if your husband looked after you perhaps but I still do not think so | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"I have had my fill of people like you who gives lectures from a soft sofa... ...I wish to put my bad life behind me and enjoy life and sip cocktails wear Hawaii shirts and shorts... On a soft sofa?
Yes your sofa whilst you go out f your house and learn how to be shot at and do a landmine dance instead of giving me a lecture on how my experience was from your little mind.
I am glad you will not have to do this because your mind is weak as is us your soft decadent body and you would not survive in the real world.
I see what you are saying just petty words like s child to defend your weak and fragile ego.
You seem to simultaneously despise and aspire to the "decadent West". Welcome to our country.
You are welcome to go to my country but I do not think you would survive. Perhaps you might if your husband looked after you perhaps but I still do not think so"Wow, is your country really that bad? If it is, why did you run away instead of staying and helping to make it a better place? | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"You are welcome to go to my country but I do not think you would survive. Perhaps you might if your husband looked after you perhaps but I still do not think so" And what is the single biggest difference between the UK and your country that makes it so dangerous for a soft Western woman to be there? | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"I have had my fill of people like you who gives lectures from a soft sofa... ...I wish to put my bad life behind me and enjoy life and sip cocktails wear Hawaii shirts and shorts... On a soft sofa?
Yes your sofa whilst you go out f your house and learn how to be shot at and do a landmine dance instead of giving me a lecture on how my experience was from your little mind.
I am glad you will not have to do this because your mind is weak as is us your soft decadent body and you would not survive in the real world.
I see what you are saying just petty words like s child to defend your weak and fragile ego.
You seem to simultaneously despise and aspire to the "decadent West". Welcome to our country.
You are welcome to go to my country but I do not think you would survive. Perhaps you might if your husband looked after you perhaps but I still do not think so
Wow, is your country really that bad? If it is, why did you run away instead of staying and helping to make it a better place?"This is my plan. I was injured and although I am unable to fight anymore I vow to return. I was trained on using ground based radar which was very interesting. However now I am using this to further my experience as an mechanical engineer which I will take back to both work and teach others God willing. I did not run away I limped away haha but yes I Will Go as soon as I am an asset to my country and people | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"I have had my fill of people like you who gives lectures from a soft sofa... ...I wish to put my bad life behind me and enjoy life and sip cocktails wear Hawaii shirts and shorts... On a soft sofa?
Yes your sofa whilst you go out f your house and learn how to be shot at and do a landmine dance instead of giving me a lecture on how my experience was from your little mind.
I am glad you will not have to do this because your mind is weak as is us your soft decadent body and you would not survive in the real world.
I see what you are saying just petty words like s child to defend your weak and fragile ego.
You seem to simultaneously despise and aspire to the "decadent West". Welcome to our country.
You are welcome to go to my country but I do not think you would survive. Perhaps you might if your husband looked after you perhaps but I still do not think so
Wow, is your country really that bad? If it is, why did you run away instead of staying and helping to make it a better place?
This is my plan. I was injured and although I am unable to fight anymore I vow to return.
I was trained on using ground based radar which was very interesting. However now I am using this to further my experience as an mechanical engineer which I will take back to both work and teach others God willing.
I did not run away I limped away haha but yes I Will Go as soon as I am an asset to my country and people "Haha - one small injury and you deserted?  You should look at UK history, especially 1939-45 - no real men ran away with a hurt leg then, even those who worked in an office looking at a screen.  | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
" This correct. The Israel settlers started this with aggressive clearing of the land. " Except that is not how it happened. Until 1948, Jews only lived on land they had purchased legally. The rest of it was the result of a war they did not start. | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
| |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"Did anyone notice on that documentary The Settlers the amount of illegal settlements that had been made since 1948. "We must help our government" was the excuse." The original rationale behind the settler movement was because of all the Jews expelled by Jordan during their post 1948 annexation. Telling Jews that they cannot live in Judea is ridiculous - even more so that Jews cannot live safely in many other parts of The Middle East. | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
" This correct. The Israel settlers started this with aggressive clearing of the land. Except that is not how it happened. Until 1948, Jews only lived on land they had purchased legally. The rest of it was the result of a war they did not start." So the nakba which occurred in 1948 when the people now kept I n the Gaza ghetto was the cause of the 1948 war. I do not support any terrorism or any acts of genocide from anyone. It is apparent that you are okay with illegal acts and the starvation of innocent people | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
" This correct. The Israel settlers started this with aggressive clearing of the land. Except that is not how it happened. Until 1948, Jews only lived on land they had purchased legally. The rest of it was the result of a war they did not start. So the nakba which occurred in 1948 when the people now kept I n the Gaza ghetto was the cause of the 1948 war. I do not support any terrorism or any acts of genocide from anyone. It is apparent that you are okay with illegal acts and the starvation of innocent people " Where did the previous poster mention the Nakba was the start of tge 1948 War. You seem to like putting words into the mouths of others to suit your narrative, Mrs x | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"So the nakba which occurred in 1948 when the people now kept I n the Gaza ghetto was the cause of the 1948 war." The 'nakba' was the result of a civil war that started in 1947 and ended with the 1948 invasion from surrounding Arab states. It wasn't the other way around, although the Arab States attacked after they heard about the Deir Yassin massacre, carried out by Irgun and Lehi. The Deir Yassin massacre was, in my opinion, wrong - but it was also part of an operation to stop snipers who had been killing Jews on the road to Jerusalem. I think it's wrong to say that Arabs were always the bad ones; atrocities were committed by Jews too - the 1947/48 conflict was littered with tit-for-tat killings carried out by both sides. But all along the way, starting back as far as the late 1800s, it was Arabs who always attacked first - often based on misunderstandings and misinformation fed to them by powers above. You could argue that they created a self-fulfilling prophecy. For example, Petah Tikva was attacked in 1886 over an argument on grazing rights, after Zionists were sold land by Arabs who had no right to sell them that land. Arabs made the road impassable and stole a Jew's horse - the Jews retaliated by stealing more horses, the Arabs attacked, injuring five people and killing one. The failure to defend Jews by the Ottoman Army led to the formation of Watchman groups (Bar Giora, Hashomer etc,) which later led to other paramilitary organisations. Had the Jews not been treated with contempt, had they been protected by the Ottoman army, had they been accepted as equals - then the paramilitary groups would have been largely redundant. In twisted irony, the Arabs sealed their own fate by worrying they would be overrun with Jews. | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"So the nakba which occurred in 1948 when the people now kept I n the Gaza ghetto was the cause of the 1948 war. The 'nakba' was the result of a civil war that started in 1947 and ended with the 1948 invasion from surrounding Arab states. It wasn't the other way around, although the Arab States attacked after they heard about the Deir Yassin massacre, carried out by Irgun and Lehi. The Deir Yassin massacre was, in my opinion, wrong - but it was also part of an operation to stop snipers who had been killing Jews on the road to Jerusalem. I think it's wrong to say that Arabs were always the bad ones; atrocities were committed by Jews too - the 1947/48 conflict was littered with tit-for-tat killings carried out by both sides. But all along the way, starting back as far as the late 1800s, it was Arabs who always attacked first - often based on misunderstandings and misinformation fed to them by powers above. You could argue that they created a self-fulfilling prophecy. For example, Petah Tikva was attacked in 1886 over an argument on grazing rights, after Zionists were sold land by Arabs who had no right to sell them that land. Arabs made the road impassable and stole a Jew's horse - the Jews retaliated by stealing more horses, the Arabs attacked, injuring five people and killing one. The failure to defend Jews by the Ottoman Army led to the formation of Watchman groups (Bar Giora, Hashomer etc,) which later led to other paramilitary organisations. Had the Jews not been treated with contempt, had they been protected by the Ottoman army, had they been accepted as equals - then the paramilitary groups would have been largely redundant. In twisted irony, the Arabs sealed their own fate by worrying they would be overrun with Jews. " You sir are writing as to make Israel are victims when by their own aggression cause more harm Let me ask you and the others here who support Israel. Someone also attacked a ship carrying aid to gaza Are you in support of an illegal action of denying innocent people food and water and medicines yes or no. | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"You sir are writing as to make Israel are victims when by their own aggression cause more harm " Jews were the victims - all of the violence in, before and after Mandatory Palestine was started by Arabs attacking Jews first. All of it. " Let me ask you and the others here who support Israel. Someone also attacked a ship carrying aid to gaza Are you in support of an illegal action of denying innocent people food and water and medicines yes or no. " As far as I am aware, nobody has yet claimed responsibility for the ship attack - while it may well be the case, at this time it is pure speculation that it was carried out by Israel. Additionally, it is not the responsibility of Israel or any country to provide food to the people they are at war with. Should we have fed the German army during WW2? | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"Did anyone notice on that documentary The Settlers the amount of illegal settlements that had been made since 1948. "We must help our government" was the excuse. The original rationale behind the settler movement was because of all the Jews expelled by Jordan during their post 1948 annexation. Telling Jews that they cannot live in Judea is ridiculous - even more so that Jews cannot live safely in many other parts of The Middle East." I have no idea of which you speak. All I know that it is wrong to take another already established persons home often at gunpoint with IDF back up. To use history to make a wrong right. | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"Did anyone notice on that documentary The Settlers the amount of illegal settlements that had been made since 1948. "We must help our government" was the excuse. The original rationale behind the settler movement was because of all the Jews expelled by Jordan during their post 1948 annexation. Telling Jews that they cannot live in Judea is ridiculous - even more so that Jews cannot live safely in many other parts of The Middle East. I have no idea of which you speak. All I know that it is wrong to take another already established persons home often at gunpoint with IDF back up. To use history to make a wrong right." You never looked at a map of Europe from the 1800s then? It looks very different than it does now. Never mind the 1800s what about the 1980s that looks different too. Loads of countries and territories that didn't exist before and now do, most formed from protest our at the end of a gun. Don't seem particularly bothered about that do you? Mrs x | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"Did anyone notice on that documentary The Settlers the amount of illegal settlements that had been made since 1948. "We must help our government" was the excuse. The original rationale behind the settler movement was because of all the Jews expelled by Jordan during their post 1948 annexation. Telling Jews that they cannot live in Judea is ridiculous - even more so that Jews cannot live safely in many other parts of The Middle East. I have no idea of which you speak. All I know that it is wrong to take another already established persons home often at gunpoint with IDF back up. To use history to make a wrong right.You never looked at a map of Europe from the 1800s then? It looks very different than it does now. Never mind the 1800s what about the 1980s that looks different too. Loads of countries and territories that didn't exist before and now do, most formed from protest our at the end of a gun. Don't seem particularly bothered about that do you? Mrs x" 
what are you saying?
That it is ok because throughout history others have done the same?
Or is that history going forward, so if Putin upped the stakes and just started killing lots of numbers of Ukraine people that would be ok as it has happened before.
All Israel has achieved is to bolster other leaders who may wish to kill off a part of their population that they can as well as it is a part of history as you say. | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
" To use history to make a wrong right.You never looked at a map of Europe from the 1800s then? It looks very different than it does now. " In more recent history, and on a similar timeline to Israel, millions of Germans were forced out of what is now Poland - like several million more than the population of Mandatory Palestine. The transfer of Muslims to Pakistan was similar too, although on a smaller scale. Sometimes a population transfer is an uncomfortable necessity - and considering that Arabs started the violence and that Jewish history is more related to the land, the transfer or Arabs makes the most sense. | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"Did anyone notice on that documentary The Settlers the amount of illegal settlements that had been made since 1948. "We must help our government" was the excuse. The original rationale behind the settler movement was because of all the Jews expelled by Jordan during their post 1948 annexation. Telling Jews that they cannot live in Judea is ridiculous - even more so that Jews cannot live safely in many other parts of The Middle East. I have no idea of which you speak. All I know that it is wrong to take another already established persons home often at gunpoint with IDF back up. To use history to make a wrong right.You never looked at a map of Europe from the 1800s then? It looks very different than it does now. Never mind the 1800s what about the 1980s that looks different too. Loads of countries and territories that didn't exist before and now do, most formed from protest our at the end of a gun. Don't seem particularly bothered about that do you? Mrs x
what are you saying?
That it is ok because throughout history others have done the same?
Or is that history going forward, so if Putin upped the stakes and just started killing lots of numbers of Ukraine people that would be ok as it has happened before.
All Israel has achieved is to bolster other leaders who may wish to kill off a part of their population that they can as well as it is a part of history as you say."You not aware of the normalisation of other countries towards Israel, Egypt, Jordan and the like. Even Saudi was preparing plans for normalisation prior to 7th Oct, so that would minimise your 'bolster' theory don't you think? And as for history and how countries emerge, it's ok for others to have done this, not just in ancient history but also modern history but not for Israel. And Israel wasn't even formed like this it was formed through a process stemming from the UN. So what's the difference between the other countries you don't object to and Israel which you do. Is it because they are Jewish? Mrs x | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"You sir are writing as to make Israel are victims when by their own aggression cause more harm Jews were the victims - all of the violence in, before and after Mandatory Palestine was started by Arabs attacking Jews first. All of it. Let me ask you and the others here who support Israel. Someone also attacked a ship carrying aid to gaza Are you in support of an illegal action of denying innocent people food and water and medicines yes or no. As far as I am aware, nobody has yet claimed responsibility for the ship attack - while it may well be the case, at this time it is pure speculation that it was carried out by Israel. Additionally, it is not the responsibility of Israel or any country to provide food to the people they are at war with. Should we have fed the German army during WW2? " Yes the Jews did suffer but people in Palestine are not responsible for the haulocaust of Europe. Also on your claim of not responsible for feeding people at war with these are innocent babies and children who are suffering and under international law it is Israel who must protect them this can be done by allowing the civilians to escape and this case for example should be allowed to enter Israel and be searched first and given shelter and other things. That is the law but they cannot and are forced to stay inside Gaza. We would search people of suspicion in case of weapons and such then give help to them I do not understand why you say feeding the German army in world war two? The civilians of Germany yes and even army who surrendered. Are the Israel IDF declaring all people in Gaza as Hamas combatants including babies? for if this is the case then this is very wrong indeed. Also the ship who else would wish to prevent the aid ships As I understand it many Jews went to gaza and protested about them which caused friction and unrest. I believe it to be about the mass numbers of people of Jewish faith which you confuse with nationality. For example if all Catholics wish to live in Vatican city there would be no room and it would be there nationality that is another issue. In Israel there are so many Jews going to live there that they cannot accommodate them all and so a campaign of ethnic cleansing is happening. | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"Did anyone notice on that documentary The Settlers the amount of illegal settlements that had been made since 1948. "We must help our government" was the excuse. The original rationale behind the settler movement was because of all the Jews expelled by Jordan during their post 1948 annexation. Telling Jews that they cannot live in Judea is ridiculous - even more so that Jews cannot live safely in many other parts of The Middle East. I have no idea of which you speak. All I know that it is wrong to take another already established persons home often at gunpoint with IDF back up. To use history to make a wrong right." This is my thoughts too especially based on religion and not nationality and force those to live in atrocious conditions in a ghetto is incredible | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
 | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
| back to top |  |
