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"Government needs to put in some sort of rule where any British business needing steel must buy British."  | |||
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"Maybe they need to investigate why it’s losing £700k a day and do something about the root causes." British Steel faces significantly higher electricity costs compared to its European competitors, impacting its competitiveness. The average price faced by UK steelmakers is around £66/MWh, while Germany and France have prices closer to £50/MWh and £43/MWh, respectively. This difference can be attributed to higher wholesale electricity costs in the UK, particularly due to reliance on natural gas power generation and higher network charges. Network charges in the UK are also a barrier, with the previous government providing a 60% compensation, lower than the 90% offered by Germany and France. | |||
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"I don’t support this Labour government, but I do support this decision. We must have the capacity to produce steel in this country. I grew up in Sunny Scunny, it’s had enough of industrial closures over the years." Uk manufacturing was 30% of gdp in 1970, nearly halved to 17.5% today. Decades of deindustrialisation and the loss of six million jobs. | |||
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"Government needs to put in some sort of rule where any British business needing steel must buy British." I could not agree more | |||
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"Government needs to put in some sort of rule where any British business needing steel must buy British." Absolutely not. That goes against a free-market economy. Are you forced to use BA to fly to wherever, or can you choose other carriers ? You can choose other carriers. That introduces competition and no one has a monopoly. If companies were forced to only buy British Steel, that's a gift to shareholders who would raise prices. Businesses in a position of monopoly do that, because they can. | |||
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"I don’t support this Labour government, but I do support this decision. We must have the capacity to produce steel in this country. I grew up in Sunny Scunny, it’s had enough of industrial closures over the years. Uk manufacturing was 30% of gdp in 1970, nearly halved to 17.5% today. Decades of deindustrialisation and the loss of six million jobs. " Thatcherism at work | |||
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"So if the uk is to support steel! Should it support coal and iron ore? One without the other is a problem. Steel is a raw material but you need iorn ore import to make it. The industry declined due to factors like imported iron ore becoming more cost-competitive and the rise of international mining operations. " This would be the next logical step - it is pointless to have a core strategic capability that doesn’t have the ability to operate because an upstream resource is missing. It is really the entire supply chain that is is strategic - from the ground right through to the ships and things that will use the steel. | |||
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"We have iron ore in the UK, indeed Scunthorpe was built in it. Unfortunately it is said to be too expensive to mine it, and that it is not as rich as the imported stuff. As for coal? This island is built on a mighty seam of it. We could make steel without importing anything, but don’t hold your breath waiting for that to happen…" So Scunthorpe is making a loss of 7 £700k/day if you use the less iorn rich Britch Ore then loss can only increase. Would it not be better to close the blast furnace and convert it to arc for recycling scrap steel. So you could spend £700,000 x365days to refit it, £255,000,000 | |||
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"Whilst many of the points raised in favour have credence, the question I ask is, how many really well run efficient and profitable Nationalised Industries have we ever had. Will this just turn into another money pit. " Every time we temporarily nationalised a rail franchise recently there was a marked improvement in operations. | |||
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"Whilst many of the points raised in favour have credence, the question I ask is, how many really well run efficient and profitable Nationalised Industries have we ever had. Will this just turn into another money pit. " And how many have been taken over by private companies and run into the ground by greedy shareholders? | |||
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"It’s losing £255 million a year. The government (tax payer) is effectively paying each of the 2700 employed £92,500 a year. " Another way of looking at the situation is the government is trying to secure a key industry required for our national defence at a time of world instability. If the blast furnaces are allowed to cool with molten steel inside then it's game over for the production of virgin steel in the UK. There is no way back. And £255 million is less than half of the cost of sending no one to Rwanda which the last government claimed was money well spent! | |||
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"It’s losing £255 million a year. The government (tax payer) is effectively paying each of the 2700 employed £92,500 a year. Another way of looking at the situation is the government is trying to secure a key industry required for our national defence at a time of world instability. If the blast furnaces are allowed to cool with molten steel inside then it's game over for the production of virgin steel in the UK. There is no way back. And £255 million is less than half of the cost of sending no one to Rwanda which the last government claimed was money well spent!" I applaud starmer for saving the steel works and the jobs But on face value it’s a loss making enterprise. The recent hit on pensioners winter fuel, cuts to disabled benefits and taxing farmers does not give Labour licence to waste tax payers money. Lammy recently gave £50million to the new ISIS Syrian government. | |||
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"Another way of looking at the situation is the government is trying to secure a key industry required for our national defence ..." It isn't required for our national defence. There is no need for virgin steel in any defence application. Indeed, many of the defence uses require tight control of the chemistry, which can't be done in blast furnaces. The only field which mandates virgin steel is the nuclear industry, and that's just from an abundance of caution in rules set 70 years ago. | |||
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"It’s losing £255 million a year. The government (tax payer) is effectively paying each of the 2700 employed £92,500 a year. Another way of looking at the situation is the government is trying to secure a key industry required for our national defence at a time of world instability. If the blast furnaces are allowed to cool with molten steel inside then it's game over for the production of virgin steel in the UK. There is no way back. And £255 million is less than half of the cost of sending no one to Rwanda which the last government claimed was money well spent!" The blast furnaces are 50 years old. You say now way back? So are you saying the UK would not have the skills to build a blast furnaces 50 years later 🤔 The UK imports ore but exports steel for recycling. We need to Recycle more in the UK not create new at a loss | |||
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"Government introduces terrible policies that make UK industrial production impossible. Government nationalises loss making industries and forces the tax payer to fund the losses ad infinitum. Government doubles down on terrible policies. And so on." Maybe PFI could be used Approximately 700 PFI contracts have been issued in the UK mostly under new Labour with a total capital value of £57 billion Of that the nhs PFI scheme cost the taxpayer £80bn and delivered £13bn investment into the nhs. | |||
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"Who is more likely to make a successful go of steel production in the UK? Is it: a. An international steel making business b. The Labour government staffed by people who’ve never run a business before, not even a sweet shop. The taxpayer will have to hope there is such a thing as a gifted amateur." Five million pounds a week for this Nearly as much as the home office spend on 5000 empty buffer hotel rooms waiting for a small boat influx | |||
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"Who is more likely to make a successful go of steel production in the UK? Is it: a. An international steel making business b. The Labour government staffed by people who’ve never run a business before, not even a sweet shop. The taxpayer will have to hope there is such a thing as a gifted amateur." There are many people in Scunthorpe who have the abilities to manage the steel plant, and their efforts will not cost anywhere near the cost of Chinese running it from China. The whole town is behind the steelworkers, including the local football club (up the iron.) I get why people would be wary of a government bail out, but in an uncertain world, the UK MUST have the capability to produce her own steel. If we find ourselves in armed conflict, we need steel to make our own weapons and to build defensive infrastructure. | |||
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"Why can't the experts at making steel make it work for British Steel? What are we going to inherit and how will it being nationalised turn it around? " From the current UK government, allowing the Scunthorpe plant to be taken over by another Chinese company is not off the table, it is official the Labour government have a serious case of insanity.  | |||
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"As things stand, it is the only steel plant in the UK capable of producing VIRGIN STEEL, (nothing to do with Richard Branson), which is used in major construction projects like new buildings and railways. Other sites exist, but are only able to produce recycle steel using electric arc furnaces." The only current field that requires virgin steel is the nuclear industry, and that's just for obsolete safety reasons. We could change that law tomorrow and there'd be no reason for blast furnaces to exist. | |||
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"Starmer proposing an emergency law on Saturday to 'take control' of British Steel plant The new law to give the government powers to help secure the future of British Steel's Scunthorpe plant, which employs 2,700 people Nothings been said about the substantial daily losses, £700,000 a day apparently. Will the tax payer be covering these… " £700k a day subsidy for British steel? £6.5m a day subsidy for British Farmers All on the taxpayer That's fine by me. We need our own food and steel. | |||
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"If we find ourselves in armed conflict, we need steel to make our own weapons and to build defensive infrastructure. " . I don't think any quantity of very nice and shiny swords (or tanks for that matter) is going to matter much when the nukes start flying. This won't be Agincourt. | |||
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"Who is more likely to make a successful go of steel production in the UK? Is it: a. An international steel making business b. The Labour government staffed by people who’ve never run a business before, not even a sweet shop. The taxpayer will have to hope there is such a thing as a gifted amateur. There are many people in Scunthorpe who have the abilities to manage the steel plant, and their efforts will not cost anywhere near the cost of Chinese running it from China. The whole town is behind the steelworkers, including the local football club (up the iron.) I get why people would be wary of a government bail out, but in an uncertain world, the UK MUST have the capability to produce her own steel. If we find ourselves in armed conflict, we need steel to make our own weapons and to build defensive infrastructure. " If the UK is in armed conflict the enemy will sick the ships carrying the iorn ore and Scunthorpe will not be able to produce anything. | |||
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"As things stand, it is the only steel plant in the UK capable of producing VIRGIN STEEL, (nothing to do with Richard Branson), which is used in major construction projects like new buildings and railways. Other sites exist, but are only able to produce recycle steel using electric arc furnaces. The only current field that requires virgin steel is the nuclear industry, and that's just for obsolete safety reasons. We could change that law tomorrow and there'd be no reason for blast furnaces to exist." I do find it astonishing that there is so much expertise on a Swinging Site, and so little in government or in the steel and nuclear industries. Have you written to your MP about this? | |||
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"Net Zero strikes again! 🥪" Is that a new fizzy drink without co2.  | |||
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"Another way of looking at the situation is the government is trying to secure a key industry required for our national defence ... It isn't required for our national defence. There is no need for virgin steel in any defence application. Indeed, many of the defence uses require tight control of the chemistry, which can't be done in blast furnaces. The only field which mandates virgin steel is the nuclear industry, and that's just from an abundance of caution in rules set 70 years ago." Show me the proof please and I feel you will not deliver it haha | |||
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"As things stand, it is the only steel plant in the UK capable of producing VIRGIN STEEL, (nothing to do with Richard Branson), which is used in major construction projects like new buildings and railways. Other sites exist, but are only able to produce recycle steel using electric arc furnaces. The only current field that requires virgin steel is the nuclear industry, and that's just for obsolete safety reasons. We could change that law tomorrow and there'd be no reason for blast furnaces to exist. I do find it astonishing that there is so much expertise on a Swinging Site, and so little in government or in the steel and nuclear industries. Have you written to your MP about this?" I grew up in Scunthorpe, and my dad worked on the building of what was then known as Appelby Frodingham steelworks. I’m no expert, just know a few basics. | |||
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"Maybe if this govt were to fastrack the building of the many hundreds of thousands of houses and to actually build the nuclear power stations we need, then the steel plant would possibly become a more investible option (if it were to be competitively priced). Are the workforce with its strikes and demands not partly responsible? How many of them would take a pay drop to remain in work, how many would be flexible? Not many I'd suggest.... Throwing good money after bad is not the answer" And the plat is near the end of its life. It needs massive investment. | |||
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"as I understand it, there are a couple of phases to the scunthorpe plan phase 1 - nationalisation to stabilise the operation keeping the current jobs in the process phase 2 - the construction of a new EAF facility, creating jobs in the process phase 3 - transition from the old BOS to the new EAF phase 4 - the decomissioning and dismantling of the BOS plant this will be tied in with the eastern sealink project currently underway. basically this means shitloads of work for tens of thousands of industrial electricians for decades which is great news ..... unless of course nutty nige and his dweebs manage to sell the anti-net zero bollocks that he's peddling and manage to kill off the prospect of tons of very very well paid work for years to come" But how is going to pay the bill for investment. It dose need to be up grades to Electric Arc Furness so it can handle recycling rather than new steel production. And yes the government should pay the bill. | |||
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