Join us FREE, we're FREE to use
Web's largest swingers site since 2006.
Already registered?
Login here
Join us FREE, we're FREE to use
Web's largest swingers site since 2006.
Already registered?
Login here
 | Back to forum list |
| Back to Politics |
| Jump to newest |  |
| |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
| |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
| |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"Thursday, 10 April 2025 You may have seen some articles in the national media today (Thursday, 10 April), suggesting that West Yorkshire Police is blocking or even rejecting white British applicants in our recruitment process. This story has originated from a query from The Telegraph regarding the force’s approach to Positive Action recruitment. Our full response, sent earlier this week, is below: “In West Yorkshire Police, we are committed to improving equality, diversity, and inclusion within the organisation, and strive to be more representative of the communities we serve. “Our Diversity, Equality and Inclusion team supports and consults with those with different protected characteristics such as sex, disability, sexual orientation, and race to ensure their views can influence and improve the service the force delivers. They also work to improve the wellbeing of everybody in the organisation and inclusivity overall. “The most recent census found that 23 per cent of people in West Yorkshire identified as being from an ethnic minority background. Our current police officer representation from ethnic minority backgrounds is around nine per cent. To address this under-representation, we use Positive Action under the Equality Act 2010. Our use of this was recently reviewed by His Majesty’s Inspectorate of Constabulary and Fire and Rescue Services in an Activism and Impartiality inspection and no issues were identified. “Positive Action allows people from under-represented groups who express an interest in joining the force to complete an application, which is then held on file until a recruitment window is opened. No interviews are held until the window is officially opened to all candidates. Enabling people from under-represented groups to apply early does not give them an advantage in the application process, it simply provides us with more opportunity to attract talent from this pool of applicants.” West Yorkshire Police has contacted media outlets this afternoon to advise of the inaccuracies within their reports and has respectfully asked for these to be amended as soon as possible. "  | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
| |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"When is this madness or as I see it racism going to stop! So west Yorkshire police are to block white applications in favour of recruiting more black n Muslim police officers. Just imagine if this was the other way round and it was blocking anyone who wasn't white it would cause uproar! " Really, that's outrageous!! Seriously though, did you actually read the statement by WYP? I guess you haven't as you wouldn't have posted the comment. | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
| |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"When is this madness or as I see it racism going to stop! So west Yorkshire police are to block white applications in favour of recruiting more black n Muslim police officers. Just imagine if this was the other way round and it was blocking anyone who wasn't white it would cause uproar! Really, that's outrageous!! Seriously though, did you actually read the statement by WYP? I guess you haven't as you wouldn't have posted the comment." I watched it on GB news and they made it pretty clear what wyp are doing. End of the day it should be who ever wants to join the police if they pass the test colour should have no relevance. | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
| |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"When is this madness or as I see it racism going to stop! So west Yorkshire police are to block white applications in favour of recruiting more black n Muslim police officers. Just imagine if this was the other way round and it was blocking anyone who wasn't white it would cause uproar! Really, that's outrageous!! Seriously though, did you actually read the statement by WYP? I guess you haven't as you wouldn't have posted the comment." Would that be the same police force that spent decades covering up Pakistani heritage grooming gangs, some of which included police officers ? One of the most incompetent and corrupt forces in the UK ? Why would anyone give credence to a word they say.  | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"When is this madness or as I see it racism going to stop! So west Yorkshire police are to block white applications in favour of recruiting more black n Muslim police officers. Just imagine if this was the other way round and it was blocking anyone who wasn't white it would cause uproar! " It would definitely cause uproar if the police recruitment was biased in favour of white people. To me a police officer represents the law and upholds it. What skin colour or ethnicity they are should be totally meaningless if they are doing their job correctly. | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"To me a police officer represents the law and upholds it. What skin colour or ethnicity they are should be totally meaningless if they are doing their job correctly. " Agreed. In applying UK law, their skin colour is meaningless. Talking to people however can be very relevant. There is nuance in understanding the cultural norms of a specific group, and I would wager that an officer from said group would have a natural advantage in doing so. They both have to apply exactly the same law of course, but I would think the officer of the same cultural group is going to resonate with the same group more easily. | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
| |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"When I grow up, I'm gonna make a no Whites, no blacks, no browns police "In theory we could have, with the advances being made in Robotics and AI, AI Police at some point in the future. 1. AI Officer is 100% informed of the law. So always consistent. 2. Impartial. Scrupulously do. 3. Will be faster, stronger and tougher than you, and any criminals. 4. Can be coloured pink, so will highly visible and also not upset any accusations of colour bias. 5. In theory, if it knows all case law, it could in some cases act as a judge as well. Thought that might be a bit contentious in particularly complex scenarios. But for run of the mill stuff, why not ? You sped ? I have proof. Here's the evidence...whirr click click. How do you plead ? Guilty. Have a fine. | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
| |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"Fast forward 2 years and WYP will have an almighty corruption problem, and the middle aged white officers will be the ones to sort it out. Happens every time " ------------------------------------- You mean the ones who are freemasons? | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"To me a police officer represents the law and upholds it. What skin colour or ethnicity they are should be totally meaningless if they are doing their job correctly. Agreed. In applying UK law, their skin colour is meaningless. Talking to people however can be very relevant. There is nuance in understanding the cultural norms of a specific group, and I would wager that an officer from said group would have a natural advantage in doing so. They both have to apply exactly the same law of course, but I would think the officer of the same cultural group is going to resonate with the same group more easily." ----------------------------------------- Equally a police force with an over represented cultural group will be inadvertenly affected by uncon*cious biases in their dealings with groups in the minority. | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"Fast forward 2 years and WYP will have an almighty corruption problem, and the middle aged white officers will be the ones to sort it out. Happens every time ------------------------------------- You mean the ones who are freemasons?" No, I mean the ones who were recruited on merit rather than some misguided target driven exercise that will result in gangs placing their members within said organisation and standards lowered to hit irrational targets. The sad thing about this recruitment strategy is all non whites who are recruited will be tarred with the same brush when undoubtedly some will be entirely suitable and excellent officers. | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
| |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"Fast forward 2 years and WYP will have an almighty corruption problem, and the middle aged white officers will be the ones to sort it out. Happens every time ------------------------------------- You mean the ones who are freemasons? No, I mean the ones who were recruited on merit rather than some misguided target driven exercise that will result in gangs placing their members within said organisation and standards lowered to hit irrational targets. The sad thing about this recruitment strategy is all non whites who are recruited will be tarred with the same brush when undoubtedly some will be entirely suitable and excellent officers. " -------------------------- You missed my point, leaders in institutions have routinely been recruited based on their affiliations irrespective of their personal qualities, a system that has created advantage for the 'white, middle aged males' referred to in the post I responded to. The 'recruitment strategy' you refer to isn't placing unqualified non white candidates at an advantage, it's intended to level the playing field around accessibility of opportunity. | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"Fast forward 2 years and WYP will have an almighty corruption problem, and the middle aged white officers will be the ones to sort it out. Happens every time ------------------------------------- You mean the ones who are freemasons? No, I mean the ones who were recruited on merit rather than some misguided target driven exercise that will result in gangs placing their members within said organisation and standards lowered to hit irrational targets. The sad thing about this recruitment strategy is all non whites who are recruited will be tarred with the same brush when undoubtedly some will be entirely suitable and excellent officers. " Several years ago the Met did a study which found officers of Asian heritage were far more likely to be involved in corruption, mostly because their family allegiances. From The Guardian: "The main conclusions of the study, commissioned by the Directorate of Professional Standards and written by an Asian detective chief inspector, stated: "Asian officers and in particular Pakistani Muslim officers are under greater pressure from the family, the extended family ... and their community against that of their white colleagues to engage in activity that might lead to misconduct or criminality." The report was quickly buried but presumably the results still hold. | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"Fast forward 2 years and WYP will have an almighty corruption problem, and the middle aged white officers will be the ones to sort it out. Happens every time ------------------------------------- You mean the ones who are freemasons? No, I mean the ones who were recruited on merit rather than some misguided target driven exercise that will result in gangs placing their members within said organisation and standards lowered to hit irrational targets. The sad thing about this recruitment strategy is all non whites who are recruited will be tarred with the same brush when undoubtedly some will be entirely suitable and excellent officers. -------------------------- You missed my point, leaders in institutions have routinely been recruited based on their affiliations irrespective of their personal qualities, a system that has created advantage for the 'white, middle aged males' referred to in the post I responded to. The 'recruitment strategy' you refer to isn't placing unqualified non white candidates at an advantage, it's intended to level the playing field around accessibility of opportunity." The outcome will be that hardly any minorities will join the police, as they aren’t interested. Of the few that do, a handful will then be fast tracked and over promoted to make up the numbers. This doesn’t benefit policing. It just ends up with more crap managers which, given the low esteem in which the police are held nowadays, is the last thing they need. If the police are lucky they won’t do any damage. If not they will end up in some tribunal or other facing racism claims from middle managers who have been fired for corruption, harassment, expenses scandals, or incompetence. It just reinforces the widely held view that the police are no longer interested in solving crimes. Their focus is on DEI, attending Pride marches and monitoring what white people say on the internet. If anyone burgled my house I just wouldn’t even bother calling the police. | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"Fast forward 2 years and WYP will have an almighty corruption problem, and the middle aged white officers will be the ones to sort it out. Happens every time ------------------------------------- You mean the ones who are freemasons?" Yes, the ones who know how to do generational corruption in the workplace to a high professional standard.... | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"Fast forward 2 years and WYP will have an almighty corruption problem, and the middle aged white officers will be the ones to sort it out. Happens every time ------------------------------------- You mean the ones who are freemasons? No, I mean the ones who were recruited on merit rather than some misguided target driven exercise that will result in gangs placing their members within said organisation and standards lowered to hit irrational targets. The sad thing about this recruitment strategy is all non whites who are recruited will be tarred with the same brush when undoubtedly some will be entirely suitable and excellent officers. -------------------------- You missed my point, leaders in institutions have routinely been recruited based on their affiliations irrespective of their personal qualities, a system that has created advantage for the 'white, middle aged males' referred to in the post I responded to. The 'recruitment strategy' you refer to isn't placing unqualified non white candidates at an advantage, it's intended to level the playing field around accessibility of opportunity. The outcome will be that hardly any minorities will join the police, as they aren’t interested. Of the few that do, a handful will then be fast tracked and over promoted to make up the numbers. This doesn’t benefit policing. It just ends up with more crap managers which, given the low esteem in which the police are held nowadays, is the last thing they need. If the police are lucky they won’t do any damage. If not they will end up in some tribunal or other facing racism claims from middle managers who have been fired for corruption, harassment, expenses scandals, or incompetence. It just reinforces the widely held view that the police are no longer interested in solving crimes. Their focus is on DEI, attending Pride marches and monitoring what white people say on the internet. If anyone burgled my house I just wouldn’t even bother calling the police." WYP spend more on DEI than any other force. Meanwhile the MP for Bradford says the Grooming Gang scandal in the West Yorkshire City 'could dwarf Rotherham'. https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cy47jm41rgmo.amp | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
| |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"When is this madness or as I see it racism going to stop! So west Yorkshire police are to block white applications in favour of recruiting more black n Muslim police officers. Just imagine if this was the other way round and it was blocking anyone who wasn't white it would cause uproar! Really, that's outrageous!! Seriously though, did you actually read the statement by WYP? I guess you haven't as you wouldn't have posted the comment. I watched it on GB news and they made it pretty clear what wyp are doing. End of the day it should be who ever wants to join the police if they pass the test colour should have no relevance." Is GB news the channel that has a presenter that said something about being able to grow cement? I've yet to see anything on GB news presented in a clear unbiased way. | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
| |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"Let's imagine a situation where instead of ethnic minorities being under-represented in the police it was white people. A situation where you only rarely saw a police officer who was white. Most people would say that it would be completely reasonable to try to increase the number of white people applying for interview because in an ideal world the police should represent the actual make-up of society. Not changing the hiring criteria to favour white people, just trying to get more white people to apply in the first place so that there was a more representative pool of candidates. Do you think that outfits like the Telegraph, Daily Express and GB News would then make up a story saying that ethnic minorities were being blocked from recruitment by the police? " It’s quite common for white people to be massively under represented in the media. I can’t recall the last time I saw any advert that had only white people in it, despite that being the most likely representation if the participants were selected at random. I don’t really hear the media complaining about it. | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"It’s quite common for white people to be massively under represented in the media. I can’t recall the last time I saw any advert that had only white people in it, despite that being the most likely representation if the participants were selected at random. I don’t really hear the media complaining about it. " According to the last census about 18% of the UK population were from ethnic minorites in 2021 so one would expect roughly one in five people on TV and in other media to be non-white, maybe slightly less. I don't consume much advertising but I've not noticed that ethinc minorities are over-represented. Advertisers aren't social justice warriors, they are focused on selling product and they wouldn't use non-white people if they thought this reduced their market, so it seems that they aren't receiving many complaints from consumers who think there are too many non-whites on show. Maybe you should write to the major advertising agencies and complain. | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
| |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"Let's imagine a situation where instead of ethnic minorities being under-represented in the police it was white people. A situation where you only rarely saw a police officer who was white. Most people would say that it would be completely reasonable to try to increase the number of white people applying for interview because in an ideal world the police should represent the actual make-up of society. Not changing the hiring criteria to favour white people, just trying to get more white people to apply in the first place so that there was a more representative pool of candidates. Do you think that outfits like the Telegraph, Daily Express and GB News would then make up a story saying that ethnic minorities were being blocked from recruitment by the police? " The hiring criteria has been changed. | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
| |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"It’s quite common for white people to be massively under represented in the media. I can’t recall the last time I saw any advert that had only white people in it, despite that being the most likely representation if the participants were selected at random. I don’t really hear the media complaining about it. According to the last census about 18% of the UK population were from ethnic minorites in 2021 so one would expect roughly one in five people on TV and in other media to be non-white, maybe slightly less. I don't consume much advertising but I've not noticed that ethinc minorities are over-represented. Advertisers aren't social justice warriors, they are focused on selling product and they wouldn't use non-white people if they thought this reduced their market, so it seems that they aren't receiving many complaints from consumers who think there are too many non-whites on show. Maybe you should write to the major advertising agencies and complain." “Advertisers aren’t social justice warriors”. Just like the police aren’t. The whole DEI thing has obviously passed you by. | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"The hiring criteria has been changed." What's your evidence for this? "A third of NHS Doctors are foreign nationals, over double the number in the UK population. Over 40% of UK Pharmacists, a key first point of contact in the health system, are Asian or of British Asian background. A huge misrepresentation. Only 25% of teachers are male, falling to 14% in Primary school, a massive gender misrepresentation depriving boys of male role models in their education. The media, law, politics and financial industry all have a huge misrepresentation of privately educated people. There are many such examples yet the calls to redress these imbalances seem to only be focused on certain situations." Given your previous posts, wouldn't you be ideologically opposed to anything that attempted to redress these imbalances? | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
| |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
| |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
| |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"Does anyone know why ethnic minorities are so under-represented in the UK's police services? I have an Uncle who is a retired New York police officer. He told me a while back that the main problem with recruiting staff there from minority groups was that those who did join were then hated by their own communities and often shunned by them, even during their off-duty hours. If this is the case in the UK, then perhaps some money needs to be spent educating these communities into accepting their own peers as police officers." This is exactly the reason why; it has also been a barrier to recruitment in white working class areas where police are regarded with hostility. | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"Does anyone know why ethnic minorities are so under-represented in the UK's police services? I have an Uncle who is a retired New York police officer. He told me a while back that the main problem with recruiting staff there from minority groups was that those who did join were then hated by their own communities and often shunned by them, even during their off-duty hours. If this is the case in the UK, then perhaps some money needs to be spent educating these communities into accepting their own peers as police officers." absolutely agree with you I have a good friend who's mixed race who serves in the metropolitan police and he's said it's so common for blacks muslims etc to call him white man's puppet bitch etc. Like he's working for the enemy. | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"The facts around WYP recruitment procedures are in the public domain." So you care deeply about this but can't be bothered to post any evidence in support of your case. "I do not support any preferential hiring procedures, including for the examples given." Just to be clear you would for instance oppose any effort to encourage more men to apply for teaching roles in primary schools, right? | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"The facts around WYP recruitment procedures are in the public domain. So you care deeply about this but can't be bothered to post any evidence in support of your case. I do not support any preferential hiring procedures, including for the examples given. Just to be clear you would for instance oppose any effort to encourage more men to apply for teaching roles in primary schools, right? " Encouraging people and employing preferential hiring procedures are two totally different things so no idea why you're conflating them. | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"The facts around WYP recruitment procedures are in the public domain. So you care deeply about this but can't be bothered to post any evidence in support of your case. " Public domain means you can look it up yourself. | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"Encouraging people and employing preferential hiring procedures are two totally different things so no idea why you're conflating them." It's you who seem to be conflating the two. You have claimed that WYP have changed their hiring criteria rather than just encouraged more applicants from a diverse background to apply for jobs. If you present evidence for your claim then we can debate it rather than just take your word for it. | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"Does anyone know why ethnic minorities are so under-represented in the UK's police services? I have an Uncle who is a retired New York police officer. He told me a while back that the main problem with recruiting staff there from minority groups was that those who did join were then hated by their own communities and often shunned by them, even during their off-duty hours. If this is the case in the UK, then perhaps some money needs to be spent educating these communities into accepting their own peers as police officers. absolutely agree with you I have a good friend who's mixed race who serves in the metropolitan police and he's said it's so common for blacks muslims etc to call him white man's puppet bitch etc. Like he's working for the enemy." White coppers get accused of being “the man’s” puppet bitch, like they’re working for the enemy. How is that any different? | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"Are we really going down the road of expecting the police force to mirror the ethnic makeup of every area? This is a dangerous path to take, it risks sleepwalking into tiers of policing where officers are seen by their ethnicity not role. No wonder this country feels so divided. Meritocracy is the only sensible way forward, and people of all backgrounds, religions, ethnicity should understand that they have a role to play in creating a harmonious society by partaking in that society as an equal. " Yes this is correct but the Equalities Act of 2010 allows all employers including the police to over-encourage individuals of particular groups or races to apply for future employment, but the actual recruitment must be carried out fairly to all applicants and be based solely on merit. I believe the original "story" was made up by a Daily Telegraph "journalist" and resulted in a very swift and detailed rebuttal by WYP, with a veiled warning that continuing to make this false claim would result in police action..... | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
| |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
" No, I mean the ones who were recruited on merit rather than some misguided target driven exercise that will result in gangs placing their members within said organisation and standards lowered to hit irrational targets. The sad thing about this recruitment strategy is all non whites who are recruited will be tarred with the same brush when undoubtedly some will be entirely suitable and excellent officers. " Are you saying there are no white corrupt 'gangs' within the police force already. Who strategically place there members in positions of power.... laughable🤷♀️🤔 | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"Let's imagine a situation where instead of ethnic minorities being under-represented in the police it was white people. A situation where you only rarely saw a police officer who was white. Most people would say that it would be completely reasonable to try to increase the number of white people applying for interview because in an ideal world the police should represent the actual make-up of society. Not changing the hiring criteria to favour white people, just trying to get more white people to apply in the first place so that there was a more representative pool of candidates. Do you think that outfits like the Telegraph, Daily Express and GB News would then make up a story saying that ethnic minorities were being blocked from recruitment by the police? It’s quite common for white people to be massively under represented in the media. I can’t recall the last time I saw any advert that had only white people in it, despite that being the most likely representation if the participants were selected at random. I don’t really hear the media complaining about it. " Can't say I've ever studied adverts enough to notice the fact that not everyone in it is white. | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"Back to the OP post. Would a country with a predominately Muslim or black population consider such a policy to have more Christians or white police officers? Not sure. If you know of such a case please let me know. Or is it a case this country has gone DEI mad" I recall that on the island where you live, Northern Ireland was policed by the Royal Ulster Constabulory, predominantly comprising of one religion and therefore not representative of the two main communities living there. Rightly in my view, this morphed into PSNI which is more representative of the people living there. Does this answer why its important to have police forces that reflect the communities they police? | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
| |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"WYP Chief Constable John Robins: "I am an advocate of positive discrimination to get to where we want to be. A lot of other senior leaders aren't, but I am."" Is that it? Attempting to increase the number of under-represented applicants for roles is positive discrimination and is completely lawful. You have even suggested that you do not object to such measures when talking about increasing the number of men applying for roles as primary school teachers. You claimed that the hiring criteria have been changed. Implying that people are not being hired on merit. Although maybe for some people the idea that a non-white applicant might be better qualified for a role than a white one is automatically questionable. | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"WYP Chief Constable John Robins: "I am an advocate of positive discrimination to get to where we want to be. A lot of other senior leaders aren't, but I am." Is that it? Attempting to increase the number of under-represented applicants for roles is positive discrimination and is completely lawful. You have even suggested that you do not object to such measures when talking about increasing the number of men applying for roles as primary school teachers. You claimed that the hiring criteria have been changed. Implying that people are not being hired on merit. Although maybe for some people the idea that a non-white applicant might be better qualified for a role than a white one is automatically questionable. " 1. Positive discrimination is illegal in the UK 2. I suggested no such thing. 3. WYP hiring criteria have changed to favour one group. 3. Personal insults just show you're losing the argument so keep them coming Comrade.  | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
| |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
| |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
| |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"...as long as the test to pass is the same for everyone and not made easier for the minorities..." Hopefully, that is something we can all agree on. | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"Regardless of this don't think it will improve the numbers if you want to join the police your join! as long as the test to pass is the same for everyone and not made easier for the minorities. Also the RAF tried this policy to get non white pilots and one of the top brass resigned over it. The policy failed." The whole policy is based on an assumption that it is the police's fault that more people from the Muslim communities are not applying, with no mention of possible other factors: Many women in those communities do not work, by choice or social pressure, so this considerably lowers the available pool. A percentage of that community will be relatively recent immigrants with possibly poor English skills. This is particularly true for women who often move from Pakistan as a result of arranged marriages with minimal English. A very high percentage of British Muslims identity primarily as Muslim (about 70%) rather than British (about 20%). It may well be that their religious beliefs and duties would conflict with working in the police force. Many British Muslims hold very conservative/reactionary social views with over half thinking homosexuality should be illegal. These views may also limit the appeal of the police force with its emphasis on inclusion. | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"...as long as the test to pass is the same for everyone and not made easier for the minorities... Hopefully, that is something we can all agree on." absolutely no problem if the test is equal for all. | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"The whole policy is based on an assumption that it is the police's fault that more people from the Muslim communities are not applying, with no mention of possible other factors:" I'm not sure how many people are saying it's the police's fault. But there does appear to be a fairly common desire for the police to be more representative of the population. And to be fair to the police they seem to be taking this onboard. "A very high percentage of British Muslims identity primarily as Muslim (about 70%) rather than British (about 20%)." We all have multiple identity traits. Being British certainly isn't my primary one. To be honest I would really struggle to build an ordered list. What do your consider to be your primary identity? "Many British Muslims hold very conservative/reactionary social views with over half thinking homosexuality should be illegal." That's probably true although I've chatted with some Muslims who are extremely liberal. One could argue that many religious people are conservative/reactionary no matter what their faith. And let's face it there is no shortage of promotion of conservative and reactionary views in the right-wing media. Also I'm guessing you are much younger than I, so you will have no experience of how oppressive the UK was in the 1960's and 1970's and won't have any real idea of how cultures change over a lifetime. What we need is a progressive and inclusive environment where people get to intermingle and learn about each other rather than one that sets us apart. From experience I find this makes people more and more tolerant. It's probably why people who live in cities are generally more liberal and progressive than those who live in rural settings. | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"It's probably why people who live in cities are generally more liberal and progressive than those who live in rural settings. " A major study in 2020 found that social attitudes in London were more conservative/reactionary than the UK average due to the high number of religiously conservative communities. I haven't seen a similar study for Birmingham but given the high Muslim population I would envisage similar results. If your priority is to have a police force that accurately represents the local population then in some areas this will by definition mean officers who are more hostile to homosexuality and women's rights, and more in favour of religious sectarianism over a common good, because these are dominant views in those communities. | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"A major study in 2020 found that social attitudes in London were more conservative/reactionary than the UK average due to the high number of religiously conservative communities. I haven't seen a similar study for Birmingham but given the high Muslim population I would envisage similar results." Is that the study based on the 43 people outside of London who said they were Muslims compared with the 96 people in London who said they were Muslims? | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
" Is that the study based on the 43 people outside of London who said they were Muslims compared with the 96 people in London who said they were Muslims? " No it was based on 1000+ responses using standard polling methods. https://www.theosthinktank.co.uk/in-the-news/2020/06/24/london-a-city-of-surprises-is-more-religious-and-socially-conservative-than-the-rest-of-britain A large ICM survey of British Muslim attitudes in 2016 found: 33% of Muslims thought boys and girls should be educated separately, 47% disagreed it was acceptable for a homosexual to teach in a school, 52% disagreed that homosexuality should be legal, 39% said wives should always obey their husbands. These views are highly unrepresentative of UK social attitudes as a whole, which have been becoming more Liberal on almost every issue for some time. | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"To me a police officer represents the law and upholds it. What skin colour or ethnicity they are should be totally meaningless if they are doing their job correctly. Agreed. In applying UK law, their skin colour is meaningless. Talking to people however can be very relevant. There is nuance in understanding the cultural norms of a specific group, and I would wager that an officer from said group would have a natural advantage in doing so. They both have to apply exactly the same law of course, but I would think the officer of the same cultural group is going to resonate with the same group more easily." A police officer acting correctly is a good police officer of any colour or ethnicity | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
| |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
| |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"Just goes on to show that DEI policies have always been racist. There is no such thing as "positive discriminatory". " What is not to like? Positive discrimination, is positive rather than just discrimination. | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"No it was based on 1000+ responses using standard polling methods." That was exactly the study I thought it was. The Savanta (previously known as ComRes) survey commisioned by Theos, a Christian think tank. If you check the raw data (which I'm not allowed to link to here) you wil see that the questionnaire was completed by 96 Muslims in London and 43 Muslims in the rest of the country. There are nearly four million Muslims in the UK so a sample size of 139 is ridiculously small. To be statistically significant about 2.400 Muslims would need to complete the questionnaire. But the survey wasn't trying to capture Muslim opinion, it was a a general study on attitudes in London versus the rest of the UK. The reason that so few Muslims were involved is because Muslims only represent about 6.5% of the UK population, compared with about 46% who are Christians. Checking back, you referred to this study to try to counter my suggestion that "It's probably why people who live in cities are generally more liberal and progressive than those who live in rural settings.". However the study makes no attempt to address this question. Unless there aren't any cities outside of London and the rest of the UK is entirely rural. | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
| |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"Rather than the ICM survey, I would recommend the Ipsos MORI "A review of survey research on Muslims in Britain" (which I am not allowed to share a link to). This pulls together 14 different studies including the ICM one. Unfortunately this analysis is very out of date. Muslim student now at university were only about ten years old when the surveys it collates were done. As I've said before I recognise that the Muslim faith is socially conservative. However my experience of Christian society when I was young and how it has radically transformed over the past half century gives me hope that cultures can change for the better. It's not guaranteed but each generation tends to be more liberal than the last. I believe that we need to invite Muslims into our lives and share our ideas and experiences to better understand each other. In fact I think this is the only way for us to build a better future. With time we will all become more tolerant and unified, providing that we resist those on all sides who seek to divide us." You do understand resistance works both ways, some people may not agree with your idea of unity or tolerance. | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"Rather than the ICM survey, I would recommend the Ipsos MORI "A review of survey research on Muslims in Britain" (which I am not allowed to share a link to). This pulls together 14 different studies including the ICM one. Unfortunately this analysis is very out of date. Muslim student now at university were only about ten years old when the surveys it collates were done. As I've said before I recognise that the Muslim faith is socially conservative. However my experience of Christian society when I was young and how it has radically transformed over the past half century gives me hope that cultures can change for the better. It's not guaranteed but each generation tends to be more liberal than the last. I believe that we need to invite Muslims into our lives and share our ideas and experiences to better understand each other. In fact I think this is the only way for us to build a better future. With time we will all become more tolerant and unified, providing that we resist those on all sides who seek to divide us." Tolerance works both ways. If they are going to send death threats to people who drew a picture and physically attack people who burned a book, they can't expect tolerance from others. | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"You do understand resistance works both ways, some people may not agree with your idea of unity or tolerance." I am well aware that some people would prefer disunity and intolerance. | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"Tolerance works both ways. If they are going to send death threats to people who drew a picture and physically attack people who burned a book, they can't expect tolerance from others." Across numerous surveys, only a tiny percentage of Muslims have expressed support or sympathy for terrorism. A recent 2016 survey found that on any act relating to violence, there were notably higher levels of condemnation among Muslim communities than for the population as a whole. Indeed, if anything sympathy for terrorist violence in the general population (4%) was higher than among Muslims (2%). From the Ipsos MORI study, | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"Tolerance works both ways. If they are going to send death threats to people who drew a picture and physically attack people who burned a book, they can't expect tolerance from others. Across numerous surveys, only a tiny percentage of Muslims have expressed support or sympathy for terrorism. A recent 2016 survey found that on any act relating to violence, there were notably higher levels of condemnation among Muslim communities than for the population as a whole. Indeed, if anything sympathy for terrorist violence in the general population (4%) was higher than among Muslims (2%). From the Ipsos MORI study, " So why is a teacher from Batley still living in hiding just because he drew a picture over 4 years back? Why is anyone burning their holy book getting assaulted? "But 27% of the 1,000 Muslims polled by ComRes said they had some sympathy for the motives behind the Paris attacks." https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-31293196 | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"So why is a teacher from Batley still living in hiding just because he drew a picture over 4 years back? Why is anyone burning their holy book getting assaulted? "But 27% of the 1,000 Muslims polled by ComRes said they had some sympathy for the motives behind the Paris attacks." https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-31293196" Because it only takes one individual maniac to threaten someone's life to make that person live in fear. I'd recommend people read the BBC article you linked. Even though it's over ten years old it gives a fairly nuanced view of the issue. | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"So why is a teacher from Batley still living in hiding just because he drew a picture over 4 years back? Why is anyone burning their holy book getting assaulted? "But 27% of the 1,000 Muslims polled by ComRes said they had some sympathy for the motives behind the Paris attacks." https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-31293196 Because it only takes one individual maniac to threaten someone's life to make that person live in fear. I'd recommend people read the BBC article you linked. Even though it's over ten years old it gives a fairly nuanced view of the issue." I have read the article. I just see some mental gymnastics of somehow portraying Muslims as victims while it's the rest of the society living under fear. We practically have blasphemy laws in this country for that one religion and somehow they are the more tolerant ones?  | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"You do understand resistance works both ways, some people may not agree with your idea of unity or tolerance. I am well aware that some people would prefer disunity and intolerance." And that works both ways. I will point you to a sura in the Quran 9:29, dhimmitude which is still practiced is some countries, tolerance at a cost. | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"I have read the article. I just see some mental gymnastics of somehow portraying Muslims as victims while it's the rest of the society living under fear. We practically have blasphemy laws in this country for that one religion and somehow they are the more tolerant ones? "Are you genuinely frightened of Muslims? I lived in Halifax for two years and the only people I felt threatened by were the BNP thugs. | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
| |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"I will point you to a sura in the Quran 9:29, dhimmitude which is still practiced is some countries, tolerance at a cost" From Wiki - "Historically, the jizya tax has been understood in Islam as a fee for protection provided by the Muslim ruler to non-Muslims, for the exemption from military service for non-Muslims, for the permission to practice a non-Muslim faith with some communal autonomy in a Muslim state, and as material proof of the non-Muslims' allegiance to the Muslim state and its laws" It's a 7th century thing. Where is this tax still applied? | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"We've strayed from the OP rather. WYP have made clear they wish to be more representative of the communities they serve. If those communities are disproportionately homophobic, sexist and anti-Semitic, as British Muslims communities clearly are, then logically those views must be represented by the police. Alternatively the police could recruit entirely on ability and integrity and every community benefits." Representative of the essence of the people, whilst all police values and conduct being fully agreed and complied with | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"I will point you to a sura in the Quran 9:29, dhimmitude which is still practiced is some countries, tolerance at a cost From Wiki - "Historically, the jizya tax has been understood in Islam as a fee for protection provided by the Muslim ruler to non-Muslims, for the exemption from military service for non-Muslims, for the permission to practice a non-Muslim faith with some communal autonomy in a Muslim state, and as material proof of the non-Muslims' allegiance to the Muslim state and its laws" It's a 7th century thing. Where is this tax still applied? " Who said tax or money, dhimmi, dhimmitude is still practiced recognised in Islam. | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"Who said tax or money, dhimmi, dhimmitude is still practiced recognised in Islam." You said "dhimmitude which is still practiced is some countries". | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"I have read the article. I just see some mental gymnastics of somehow portraying Muslims as victims while it's the rest of the society living under fear. We practically have blasphemy laws in this country for that one religion and somehow they are the more tolerant ones?
Are you genuinely frightened of Muslims?
I lived in Halifax for two years and the only people I felt threatened by were the BNP thugs.
"If you aren't frightened, can you go draw the forbidden planet in public and livestream it?  | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"We've strayed from the OP rather. WYP have made clear they wish to be more representative of the communities they serve. If those communities are disproportionately homophobic, sexist and anti-Semitic, as British Muslims communities clearly are, then logically those views must be represented by the police. Alternatively the police could recruit entirely on ability and integrity and every community benefits. Representative of the essence of the people, whilst all police values and conduct being fully agreed and complied with " Is race/religion the essence of the people? I thought we wanted to move away from that kind of thinking | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
| |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"If you aren't frightened, can you go draw the forbidden planet in public and livestream it? "I don't think anyone should deliberately try to offend others. Criticizing someone's specifc attitudes or behaviours is perfectly acceptable but for instance nobody should spray paint a swastika outside a synagogue. Of course it is wrong to respond to such provocation with violence but if someone is so stupid or cruel to do this kind of thing then its likely that some deranged young male is going to want to retaliate in the most extreme way possible. Nonetheless any such violence or threat of violence should be condemned and the full force of the law applied. | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
" Of course it is wrong to respond to such provocation with violence but if someone is so stupid or cruel to do this kind of thing then its likely that some deranged young male is going to want to retaliate in the most extreme way possible. " Richard Dawkins has said lot of stuff about Christianity that's not even close to drawing a picture that offends Muslims. Is he stupid/cruel? Also, you know that if you do this, you won't be scared. So why are you surprised people of scared of Islamism? Basically, violence works and violence is how we ended up with blasphemy laws. " Nonetheless any such violence or threat of violence should be condemned and the full force of the law applied. " And yet, not a single one of the far-right extremists who threatened the teacher in Batley for drawing a picture got arrested. Is underrepresentation of them in police seriously a problem? Because the two-tier justice system seems to favour them. | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"Who said tax or money, dhimmi, dhimmitude is still practiced recognised in Islam. You said "dhimmitude which is still practiced is some countries". " Yes in Sudan for an example. | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"Richard Dawkins has said lot of stuff about Christianity that's not even close to drawing a picture that offends Muslims. Is he stupid/cruel? Also, you know that if you do this, you won't be scared. So why are you surprised people of scared of Islamism? Basically, violence works and violence is how we ended up with blasphemy laws." Richard Dawkin's "The Selfish Gene" and "The Blind Watchermaker" were great books. I especially enjoyed the latter. But IMHO he's turned into a bit of dick. He isn't a deep thinker when it comes to social or religious matters, so I'd say he's pretty dump but not cruel. Perhaps the reason that Christians, at least in Western Europe, have developed thick skins is that we endured about a thousand years of chaos where Christians were killing each other over quite trivial disagreements. This went on until quite recently. Then of course there was all the killing of non-Christians by Christians. People are fed up with such sh*te. which is why intolerance amongst Muslims is rightly frowned upon. You won't get any argument from me that Muslims shouldn't be so easily offended. "And yet, not a single one of the far-right extremists who threatened the teacher in Batley for drawing a picture got arrested. Is underrepresentation of them in police seriously a problem? Because the two-tier justice system seems to favour them." I've just read up a little on Batley Grammar School case and it looks like is has been very badly handled. As far as I understand the teacher wasn't deliberately trying to offend anyone although the use of an image of Muhammad wearing a turban containing a bomb probably wasn't well-judged. It seems that the whole thing was frothed up by maniacs at MAF and TLP. I suspect that the police have investigated these organisations but found there is insufficient evidence to prosecute. Hopefully the activists involved in this sh*t stirring are under close observation. | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"Yes in Sudan for an example" OK, I'd be interested in a reference to that as a quick google didn't come up with anything. I know some extremist groups like ISIS have tried to extract Jizya but I don't count them as countries. | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"Yes in Sudan for an example OK, I'd be interested in a reference to that as a quick google didn't come up with anything. I know some extremist groups like ISIS have tried to extract Jizya but I don't count them as countries." I think Islamic glavery is a form of dhimmitude. | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"I think Islamic glavery is a form of dhimmitude. " What's happening in Sudan is absolutely terrible but it's not a conflict between Muslims and non-Muslims as practically everyone there is a Sunni Muslim. It's a brutal civil war between the SAF and RSF with atrocities reportedly being committed by both sides. It's got f*ck all to do with dhimmitude. | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"I think Islamic glavery is a form of dhimmitude. What's happening in Sudan is absolutely terrible but it's not a conflict between Muslims and non-Muslims as practically everyone there is a Sunni Muslim. It's a brutal civil war between the SAF and RSF with atrocities reportedly being committed by both sides. It's got f*ck all to do with dhimmitude." Ok I'll try Saudi Arabia they are sunni Muslim exactly the same practice of glavery with no civil war, unite with those if you wish nescius. | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"Ok I'll try Saudi Arabia they are sunni Muslim exactly the same practice of glavery with no civil war, unite with those if you wish nescius." You've used "glavery" twice now. The first time I thought it was just a typo. What does this word mean? And I've been talking about getting along with British Muslims not Saudis. Also please leave out the ad hominem stuff. | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"When is this madness or as I see it racism going to stop! So west Yorkshire police are to block white applications in favour of recruiting more black n Muslim police officers. Just imagine if this was the other way round and it was blocking anyone who wasn't white it would cause uproar! Really, that's outrageous!! Seriously though, did you actually read the statement by WYP? I guess you haven't as you wouldn't have posted the comment. I watched it on GB news and they made it pretty clear what wyp are doing. End of the day it should be who ever wants to join the police if they pass the test colour should have no relevance." GB News Ha ha ha! | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
" Richard Dawkin's "The Selfish Gene" and "The Blind Watchermaker" were great books. I especially enjoyed the latter. But IMHO he's turned into a bit of dick. He isn't a deep thinker when it comes to social or religious matters, so I'd say he's pretty dump but not cruel. " The left praised him when he was taking the piss out of Christianity. The moment he went after Islam, the left started demonising him. " Perhaps the reason that Christians, at least in Western Europe, have developed thick skins is that we endured about a thousand years of chaos where Christians were killing each other over quite trivial disagreements. This went on until quite recently. Then of course there was all the killing of non-Christians by Christians. People are fed up with such sh*te. which is why intolerance amongst Muslims is rightly frowned upon. You won't get any argument from me that Muslims shouldn't be so easily offended. " I don't think burning a religious book or drawing a picture forbidden by a religion is intolerance. " I've just read up a little on Batley Grammar School case and it looks like is has been very badly handled. As far as I understand the teacher wasn't deliberately trying to offend anyone although the use of an image of Muhammad wearing a turban containing a bomb probably wasn't well-judged. It seems that the whole thing was frothed up by maniacs at MAF and TLP. I suspect that the police have investigated these organisations but found there is insufficient evidence to prosecute. Hopefully the activists involved in this sh*t stirring are under close observation." Investigated but found insufficient evidence? The police didn't give a fuck. If they did, the teacher wouldn't be still living in hiding. They didn't even show 10% seriousness that they showed with the Southport riots. One of the numerous examples of two-tier justice system in the country. And yet, they are worried that they are underrepresented. | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"The left praised him when he was taking the piss out of Christianity. The moment he went after Islam, the left started demonising him." Well I'm on the left and I thought he became a bit of a dick as soon as he stopped talking about his field of expertise and started going after the Christians. The God Delusion was a rubbish book and kind of embarrassing to read for an atheist like myself. | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"I have read the article. I just see some mental gymnastics of somehow portraying Muslims as victims while it's the rest of the society living under fear. We practically have blasphemy laws in this country for that one religion and somehow they are the more tolerant ones?
Are you genuinely frightened of Muslims?
I lived in Halifax for two years and the only people I felt threatened by were the BNP thugs.
"Well, of course you didn't feel threatened by muslims, you're an elderly male, not a young white women/girl. White females in city areas are terrified to go out at night, or on their own at any time in far too many cases. It does seem quite obvious that you, and most leftist types, are completely oblivious to the safeguarding of women. Even Two-Tier is incapable of defining what a woman actually is. A recent analysis shows that in a table of foreign nationalities living in the UK who are most likely to be arrested for sex offences against white women, 27 out of the top 30 are from muslim majority countries. Sudan tops the list, with Sudanese muslim males 24 times more likely to commit sex offences than a British male. 27 out of 30 are muslim countries. Just think about that. | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"Back to the OP post. Would a country with a predominately Muslim or black population consider such a policy to have more Christians or white police officers? Not sure. If you know of such a case please let me know. Or is it a case this country has gone DEI mad I recall that on the island where you live, Northern Ireland was policed by the Royal Ulster Constabulory, predominantly comprising of one religion and therefore not representative of the two main communities living there. Rightly in my view, this morphed into PSNI which is more representative of the people living there. Does this answer why its important to have police forces that reflect the communities they police?" I take your point but the situation was more complex. It was a protestant statelet set up for a protestant people and policed by a protestant police force. With the PSNI there are still challenges | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"Just think about that." I wan't eldery when I lived in Halifax and my white female partner felt completely safe walking around on her own. Your story is I guess the recent one in the Daily Mail. A key thing to note is that the numbers they published were for people arrested. Not people charged with any offence nor people convicted. Last I heard being arrested didn't make you guilty. If you come back with numbers of people convicted of crimes then we can look at the data more closely. | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
| |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"Also I think an irrational and ugly notion is creeping in here. That of collective guilt. If a heterosexual woman born in Essex and brought up in a devout Christian family commited a terrible crime would we consider that her being heterosexual, female, from Essex or being Chrisitan were relevant? I think the answer is no. Yet do a little thought experiment and replace any of these identity characteristics with identity characteristics you find unfavourable. See how it changes things. " Rather an ironic comment in the context of this thread. You want the police to recruit people on the basis that they are part of an identifiable community, yet when people point out troubling attitudes and behaviour within that community you only want to talk about people as individuals. | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"Rather an ironic comment in the context of this thread. You want the police to recruit people on the basis that they are part of an identifiable community, yet when people point out troubling attitudes and behaviour within that community you only want to talk about people as individuals." Except I don't want the police to recuit people because they are part of an identifiable community. I want them to recruit people on merit and am only supporting efforts to make sure that there is a pool of candidates that is representative of the people being policed as in this country we believe in policing by consent. I also believe that identity isn't a good indicator of merit for a job so having a more representative pool of candidates will tend to result in a more representative set of people being employed. On the other hand you appear to be arguing that candidates should be rejected on the grounds that they belong to a certain group rather than by merit. | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"If a heterosexual woman born in Essex and brought up in a devout Christian family commited a terrible crime would we consider that her being heterosexual, female, from Essex or being Chrisitan were relevant?" If half a dozen of those women committed similar crimes, and each stated that they did so because of their heterosexual Christian Essex upbringing, then yes I think people would start to think that those things were relevant. But in general I agree that too many people are apportioning blame to innocents purely based on what other people that look like them have done. | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
| |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"Widening the pool for one group, by giving those candidates a greater statistical chance of selection is not based on merit, but on ethnical background, which provides that group with an unfair advantage. In my view, the approach undermines the principle of equality. " Providing that the pool isn't skewed to favour one group disproportionally (relative to their presence in the overall population) and that the final offer of employment is based purely on merit then it's hard to see how this is unfair. | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"Widening the pool for one group, by giving those candidates a greater statistical chance of selection is not based on merit, but on ethnical background, which provides that group with an unfair advantage. In my view, the approach undermines the principle of equality. Providing that the pool isn't skewed to favour one group disproportionally (relative to their presence in the overall population) and that the final offer of employment is based purely on merit then it's hard to see how this is unfair. " The issue lies in extending the application window only for one group, which naturally increases the number of applicants from that group. This isn’t a fair process it’s manipulation of the applicant pool to increase the odds of one outcome over another. If we assume the final selection is based purely on merit, increasing the number of applicants from one side increases the chances of more high quality candidates emerging from that group. That’s not equality, it’s an engineered advantage that the force are hoping lands in their favour. | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
| |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"So it seems that you accept that if the pool was more representative of the population then it's likely that people who are currently underepresented would, purely on the grounds of merit, be hired and the end result would be a highly-qualified police force that fairly represents the people it polices. However, you don't think it would be fair for the pool to be representative of the population and you would prefer it to be skewed in favour of non-Muslims. Have I understood your position correctly? " You haven't understood me correctly. The application window should be identical for everyone, no extended deadlines or special provisions. That’s the only way to ensure the process is open, fair, and based on equal opportunity. From that single pool, selection should be made on merit alone. Anything other than the above is leaning into manipulation that impacts everyone but a single group. And as for representation of an area, if a police force doesn’t reflect the local population ethnically, does that automatically mean underrepresentation, or does it mean there’s less interest in joining from certain groups? There are no barriers stopping anyone of any race or background from applying to join the police. That matters and we should be honest about it. | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
| |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"Ok I'll try Saudi Arabia they are sunni Muslim exactly the same practice of glavery with no civil war, unite with those if you wish nescius. You've used "glavery" twice now. The first time I thought it was just a typo. What does this word mean? And I've been talking about getting along with British Muslims not Saudis. Also please leave out the ad hominem stuff. " The site filters swap the g for an s, you should of been more precise beacause when people say unite with Muslims, I have thoughts of barbarian Muslim glavers enslaving people in 2025 and the acts of terrorism inflicted on the British public from Muslims, I call them all sorts I can't help myself, I guess I'm just like a left wing liberal when Donald or elon is mentioned, I tell you what if you could get a left wing liberal to unite with the Donald or elon I will let you try to change my stance. | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
| |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"West Yorkshire Police are prioritizing recruitment from under-represented communities, particularly those from ethnic minority backgrounds. They are encouraging these groups to apply for police officer roles and police staff positions, using "positive action" initiatives to level the playing field. This includes outreach events and online resources to provide information and support for potential applicants." . A police force has to be representative of the population it serves and have officers from different cultural backgrounds who can understand the unique challenges other groups face. . It's no different if I moved to Dubai. I might want representation from my own culture. And guess what ? Dubai Police Force, like many international police forces, has a diverse staff, including officers of various ethnicities and nationalities. While specific numbers and details about the specific composition of Dubai Police are not readily available, it's reasonable to assume that there are white English police officers working there, given the global nature of Dubai and the fact that many expatriates, including those from the UK, choose to work there. . If you read the statement on the West Yorkshire Police website, no one is being "blocked". That's shit-stirring by folks with an agenda. " What are these facts you quote. Do you know these facts don't resonat with the Reform agenda and therfore even though they are true and factual they should be ignored in favour of the racist paranoia. Keep to the lies and populist made up stories please. | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
| Post new Message to Thread |
| back to top |  |
