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"For all their faults, and there are certainly a ton of them, Hamas have actually abided by all of the terms in phase 1 of the ceasefire agreement…. And wanted to continue onto phase 2 It’s actually Israel that have now been dragging its feet, trying to change what was agreed by starving the population, halting humanitarian aid and cutting off electricity And now this massive airstrike" Like Putin, Netanyahu has been emboldened by all the macho sabre rattling of Trump. As a result, the prospect of long term peace in both conflicts is diminishing rapidly. | |||
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"Unfortunately there is going to be no peace while the Hamas terrorists are running things in Gaza. They have been using the ceasefire to re-establish their authority on the ground. “Gaza Health Authorities” is Hamas. The infiltration of the UNRWA by Hamas is well known. None of this would be happening were it not for 7th October. 7th October wouldn’t have happened but for the US having such a weak President at the time. This won’t end until Hamas is wiped out. " Can’t see Hamas being wiped out. Their numbers were reported in the range 50-60k pre invasion and last May Israel said they’d killed 25% I would imagine volunteer numbers have swelled since then. | |||
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"I don't think anyone should be surprised the ceasefire has hit a problem at phase 2. Israel now want the agreement in phase 2 to include the dismantling of the Hamas military infrastructure and the ceasefire to be extended while this part is negotiated. I'm not surprised by this, simply because Israel were agreeing to walk away with no actual change to Hamas. Hamsa are not going away, the only way I can see any type of compromise is for an agreement with Egypt / Jordon or other intermediary that could monitor a Gaza rebuild on the ground to ensure Hamas were not diverting aid to build up their military capabilities. However right now Hamas should agree to the extension of the ceasefire, they literally have nothing to lose and everything to gain. " On Hamas side they need only to release the reported 24 hostages ? | |||
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"As of 4 March 2025, over 50,000 people; 48,405 Palestinian and 1,706 Israeli have been reported killed in the Gaza war according to the official figures of the Gaza Health Ministry In addition: 166 journalists and media workers 120 academics 224 humanitarian aid workers, a number that includes 179 employees of UNRWA. Scholars have estimated 80% of Palestinians killed are civilians. A study by OHCHR, that verified fatalities from three independent sources, found that 70% of the Palestinian killed in residential buildings or similar housing were women and children. Mass murder " No more, no less | |||
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"What makes these remaining hostages so valuable to Hamas (or those who allow Hamas to exist) that they would endure such slaughter to hold on to them? It's not like they didn't know what was coming." If the remaining hostages are dead or not in the condition Hamas advised when this deal was brokered, it will likely be the end of Gaza. | |||
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"I don't think anyone should be surprised the ceasefire has hit a problem at phase 2. Israel now want the agreement in phase 2 to include the dismantling of the Hamas military infrastructure and the ceasefire to be extended while this part is negotiated. I'm not surprised by this, simply because Israel were agreeing to walk away with no actual change to Hamas. Hamsa are not going away, the only way I can see any type of compromise is for an agreement with Egypt / Jordon or other intermediary that could monitor a Gaza rebuild on the ground to ensure Hamas were not diverting aid to build up their military capabilities. However right now Hamas should agree to the extension of the ceasefire, they literally have nothing to lose and everything to gain. On Hamas side they need only to release the reported 24 hostages ? " I am glad that someone mentioned the very last line.. So what people are doing is giving Israel an excuse for an agreement they were never going to honour Phase 1 had been completed… on to phase 2 . | |||
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" If the remaining hostages are dead or not in the condition Hamas advised when this deal was brokered, it will likely be the end of Gaza. " As brutal as it sounds, Israel cares less about today's hostages and more about Hamas: the existence of Hamas almost guarantees many more future hostages and wars/rockets (casualties). The end of Hamas (as it is currently), at any cost, is almost guaranteed. How that end happens is up to them and the people of Gaza. | |||
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" So what people are doing is giving Israel an excuse for an agreement they were never going to honour " What specific agreement did Israel not honour? | |||
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"I don't think anyone should be surprised the ceasefire has hit a problem at phase 2. Israel now want the agreement in phase 2 to include the dismantling of the Hamas military infrastructure and the ceasefire to be extended while this part is negotiated. I'm not surprised by this, simply because Israel were agreeing to walk away with no actual change to Hamas. Hamsa are not going away, the only way I can see any type of compromise is for an agreement with Egypt / Jordon or other intermediary that could monitor a Gaza rebuild on the ground to ensure Hamas were not diverting aid to build up their military capabilities. However right now Hamas should agree to the extension of the ceasefire, they literally have nothing to lose and everything to gain. On Hamas side they need only to release the reported 24 hostages ? I am glad that someone mentioned the very last line.. So what people are doing is giving Israel an excuse for an agreement they were never going to honour Phase 1 had been completed… on to phase 2 ." That is not a fair comment, who has given Israel excuses? | |||
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" If the remaining hostages are dead or not in the condition Hamas advised when this deal was brokered, it will likely be the end of Gaza. As brutal as it sounds, Israel cares less about today's hostages and more about Hamas: the existence of Hamas almost guarantees many more future hostages and wars/rockets (casualties). The end of Hamas (as it is currently), at any cost, is almost guaranteed. How that end happens is up to them and the people of Gaza." Israel knows that Hamas cannot be destroyed. They use it as an excuse to continue the conflict. | |||
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" If the remaining hostages are dead or not in the condition Hamas advised when this deal was brokered, it will likely be the end of Gaza. As brutal as it sounds, Israel cares less about today's hostages and more about Hamas: the existence of Hamas almost guarantees many more future hostages and wars/rockets (casualties). The end of Hamas (as it is currently), at any cost, is almost guaranteed. How that end happens is up to them and the people of Gaza." I can see Hamas existing for years to come, the fact that numbers have swollen during the war according the US sources, tells me that Palestinians in Gaza support Hamas. We also had glimpses into the organisation of Hamas and how it conducted itself during the war and hostage handovers, it left me no doubt that they rule over the area with force and intimidation. | |||
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" If the remaining hostages are dead or not in the condition Hamas advised when this deal was brokered, it will likely be the end of Gaza. As brutal as it sounds, Israel cares less about today's hostages and more about Hamas: the existence of Hamas almost guarantees many more future hostages and wars/rockets (casualties). The end of Hamas (as it is currently), at any cost, is almost guaranteed. How that end happens is up to them and the people of Gaza. I can see Hamas existing for years to come, the fact that numbers have swollen during the war according the US sources, tells me that Palestinians in Gaza support Hamas. We also had glimpses into the organisation of Hamas and how it conducted itself during the war and hostage handovers, it left me no doubt that they rule over the area with force and intimidation. " But looking at it dispassionately, is it any surprise Hamas is reinforced by the level of carnage inflicted on Gaza by Israel? What would you do if it was your family buried alive under the rubble? | |||
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" If the remaining hostages are dead or not in the condition Hamas advised when this deal was brokered, it will likely be the end of Gaza. As brutal as it sounds, Israel cares less about today's hostages and more about Hamas: the existence of Hamas almost guarantees many more future hostages and wars/rockets (casualties). The end of Hamas (as it is currently), at any cost, is almost guaranteed. How that end happens is up to them and the people of Gaza. I can see Hamas existing for years to come, the fact that numbers have swollen during the war according the US sources, tells me that Palestinians in Gaza support Hamas. We also had glimpses into the organisation of Hamas and how it conducted itself during the war and hostage handovers, it left me no doubt that they rule over the area with force and intimidation. But looking at it dispassionately, is it any surprise Hamas is reinforced by the level of carnage inflicted on Gaza by Israel? What would you do if it was your family buried alive under the rubble?" My point was that Hamas is not going away, they are supported and backfilled by volunteers and by those who have been given no choice. It would be naive of me to expect the people of Gaza to rise up against them and survive, so where does that actually leave the ongoing situation? Maybe they should annex Gaza at the Philadelphia line, anyone wanting out of Hamas control, this side, want Hamas control that side, similar to the West Bank. If there are no logical or practical ways out of this, no amount of agreements are going to work, and taking sides is pointless. | |||
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"I stated at the start of phase one of the ceasefire Netanyahu would find a way to not start phase two. I've also stated I have no sympathy for hamas. But it's pretty clear some of you seem to think Israel is whiter than white and it's all the Palestinians fault.under phase one of the ceasefire Israel agreed to 60.000 mobile homes to be allowed in yet they blocked them all.a 10 year old child and a pregnant woman was shot dead. Israel also stopped aid food and water into Gaza 15 days ago. Even families of the hostages have said Netanyahu wants to keep fighting and accuse Netanyahu of sending a delegation to Egypt to sabotage the negotiations for phase two. Then there's the constant attacks by the settlers on Palestinians that the Israeli army turn a blind eye too. " What has been said that makes you say "But it's pretty clear some of you seem to think Israel is whiter than white and it's all the Palestinians fault"? | |||
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"I stated at the start of phase one of the ceasefire Netanyahu would find a way to not start phase two. I've also stated I have no sympathy for hamas. But it's pretty clear some of you seem to think Israel is whiter than white and it's all the Palestinians fault.under phase one of the ceasefire Israel agreed to 60.000 mobile homes to be allowed in yet they blocked them all.a 10 year old child and a pregnant woman was shot dead. Israel also stopped aid food and water into Gaza 15 days ago. Even families of the hostages have said Netanyahu wants to keep fighting and accuse Netanyahu of sending a delegation to Egypt to sabotage the negotiations for phase two. Then there's the constant attacks by the settlers on Palestinians that the Israeli army turn a blind eye too. " Gods chosen people only kill in self defence. Especially the world's most moral army. Your post is anti-Semitic. | |||
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"I stated at the start of phase one of the ceasefire Netanyahu would find a way to not start phase two. I've also stated I have no sympathy for hamas. But it's pretty clear some of you seem to think Israel is whiter than white and it's all the Palestinians fault.under phase one of the ceasefire Israel agreed to 60.000 mobile homes to be allowed in yet they blocked them all.a 10 year old child and a pregnant woman was shot dead. Israel also stopped aid food and water into Gaza 15 days ago. Even families of the hostages have said Netanyahu wants to keep fighting and accuse Netanyahu of sending a delegation to Egypt to sabotage the negotiations for phase two. Then there's the constant attacks by the settlers on Palestinians that the Israeli army turn a blind eye too. " 
I point out the same things too and quite clearly state I'd condemn any country behaving this way. Unfortunately, double standards are the norm.
people make exceptions for Israel for many reasons. | |||
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"I stated at the start of phase one of the ceasefire Netanyahu would find a way to not start phase two. I've also stated I have no sympathy for hamas. But it's pretty clear some of you seem to think Israel is whiter than white and it's all the Palestinians fault.under phase one of the ceasefire Israel agreed to 60.000 mobile homes to be allowed in yet they blocked them all.a 10 year old child and a pregnant woman was shot dead. Israel also stopped aid food and water into Gaza 15 days ago. Even families of the hostages have said Netanyahu wants to keep fighting and accuse Netanyahu of sending a delegation to Egypt to sabotage the negotiations for phase two. Then there's the constant attacks by the settlers on Palestinians that the Israeli army turn a blind eye too.
I point out the same things too and quite clearly state I'd condemn any country behaving this way. Unfortunately, double standards are the norm.
people make exceptions for Israel for many reasons."The ceasefire cannot work without a peacekeeping force. | |||
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"Netanyahu government has insisted no investigations in to Oct 7th or his responses until the war is over. Lots of Israeli’s are furious about his response, including the families of victims. The last thing he wants is an end to this conflict." What are they investigating about the 7th Oct? Mrs x | |||
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"Netanyahu government has insisted no investigations in to Oct 7th or his responses until the war is over. Lots of Israeli’s are furious about his response, including the families of victims. The last thing he wants is an end to this conflict.What are they investigating about the 7th Oct? Mrs x" Apart from how much tripe and unfounded accusations against me you've posted, my guess is the Israeli government failure | |||
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"Netanyahu government has insisted no investigations in to Oct 7th or his responses until the war is over. Lots of Israeli’s are furious about his response, including the families of victims. The last thing he wants is an end to this conflict.What are they investigating about the 7th Oct? Mrs x Apart from how much tripe and unfounded accusations against me you've posted, my guess is the Israeli government failure " So you don't know, anyone else? Mrs x | |||
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"Netanyahu government has insisted no investigations in to Oct 7th or his responses until the war is over. Lots of Israeli’s are furious about his response, including the families of victims. The last thing he wants is an end to this conflict.What are they investigating about the 7th Oct? Mrs x Apart from how much tripe and unfounded accusations against me you've posted, my guess is the Israeli government failure So you don't know, anyone else? Mrs x" Which is more than you know! | |||
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"Netanyahu government has insisted no investigations in to Oct 7th or his responses until the war is over. Lots of Israeli’s are furious about his response, including the families of victims. The last thing he wants is an end to this conflict.What are they investigating about the 7th Oct? Mrs x Apart from how much tripe and unfounded accusations against me you've posted, my guess is the Israeli government failure So you don't know, anyone else? Mrs x Which is more than you know! " No, I definitely know you don't know haha, Mrs x | |||
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"Netanyahu government has insisted no investigations in to Oct 7th or his responses until the war is over. Lots of Israeli’s are furious about his response, including the families of victims. The last thing he wants is an end to this conflict.What are they investigating about the 7th Oct? Mrs x Apart from how much tripe and unfounded accusations against me you've posted, my guess is the Israeli government failure So you don't know, anyone else? Mrs x Which is more than you know! No, I definitely know you don't know haha, Mrs x" Incorrect I'm afraid!!! I definitely know that you don't know what you think you know that I don't know  | |||
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"Netanyahu government has insisted no investigations in to Oct 7th or his responses until the war is over. Lots of Israeli’s are furious about his response, including the families of victims. The last thing he wants is an end to this conflict.What are they investigating about the 7th Oct? Mrs x Apart from how much tripe and unfounded accusations against me you've posted, my guess is the Israeli government failure So you don't know, anyone else? Mrs x Which is more than you know! No, I definitely know you don't know haha, Mrs x Incorrect I'm afraid!!! I definitely know that you don't know what you think you know that I don't know "Hahaha, Mrs x | |||
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"Israeli security forces turn water cannons on protesters including families of hostages for protesting against Netanyahu ending the ceasefire if anyone still thinks Netanyahu's priority is the rest of the hostages your delusional." You do know this same guy released over 750 murdering terrorist scum to secure tge release of one Israeli hostages previously. You have no idea what he wants, Mrs x | |||
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"Israeli security forces turn water cannons on protesters including families of hostages for protesting against Netanyahu ending the ceasefire if anyone still thinks Netanyahu's priority is the rest of the hostages your delusional." If Palestinians in Gaza demonstrated against Hamas, do you think they would be dispersed by water cannons. | |||
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"Israeli security forces turn water cannons on protesters including families of hostages for protesting against Netanyahu ending the ceasefire if anyone still thinks Netanyahu's priority is the rest of the hostages your delusional.You do know this same guy released over 750 murdering terrorist scum to secure tge release of one Israeli hostages previously. You have no idea what he wants, Mrs x" and that's where your wrong alot of them are Palestinians who have been detained without any charges! But then again I wouldn't expect any other answer from you as you have proven many times you clearly support everything and anything the Israelis do. I've seen how you only comment on certain posts and laugh and attack another person on a regular basis! | |||
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"Israeli security forces turn water cannons on protesters including families of hostages for protesting against Netanyahu ending the ceasefire if anyone still thinks Netanyahu's priority is the rest of the hostages your delusional.You do know this same guy released over 750 murdering terrorist scum to secure tge release of one Israeli hostages previously. You have no idea what he wants, Mrs x and that's where your wrong alot of them are Palestinians who have been detained without any charges! But then again I wouldn't expect any other answer from you as you have proven many times you clearly support everything and anything the Israelis do. I've seen how you only comment on certain posts and laugh and attack another person on a regular basis!" They weren't all Palestinians detained without charges, some were but they were mainly terrorists. 280 of the convicted were serving life for terrorist activities. They included Sinwar, the future leader of Hamas and the architect of 7th Oct. It's been estimated that of those released over 100 Israelis have been killed by these terrorists. So maybe read up about it first before just having a go at me. This is an easy to find subject. Netanyahu faced opposition from within the parliament and the general Israeli population for being too lenient. 750 terrorists for one Israeli soldier, do you think he was too lenient? It's partly because of this that Hamas take hostages. They know that they can negotiate for hundreds of convicted terrorists to be returned to them in exchange for a few innocent Israeli citizens. So tell me again that Netenyahu doesn't care about hostages, it's just a terrible situation the Israeli people are placed in and the decisions they have to make are awful. However sometimes enough is enough. The soldiers name is Gilad Shalit, read up about it. And as for me agreeing with everything Israel does, read my posts and you find that's just not true but you won't because it doesn't help with the narrative you have about me, it's just lazy really. Mrs x | |||
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"I don't think anyone should be surprised the ceasefire has hit a problem at phase 2. Israel now want the agreement in phase 2 to include the dismantling of the Hamas military infrastructure and the ceasefire to be extended while this part is negotiated. I'm not surprised by this, simply because Israel were agreeing to walk away with no actual change to Hamas. Hamsa are not going away, the only way I can see any type of compromise is for an agreement with Egypt / Jordon or other intermediary that could monitor a Gaza rebuild on the ground to ensure Hamas were not diverting aid to build up their military capabilities. However right now Hamas should agree to the extension of the ceasefire, they literally have nothing to lose and everything to gain. " Why would Hamas ever agree to any terms with Israel again? It has become obvious that whatever Gazans do now, Israel is going to break every ceasefire and continue killing them until there is nobody left alive in Gaza. Gaza is no longer in a war for existence, they know that Israel is going to eventually kill every man, woman and child in Palestine. The only options they have are to either give up and be killed, or to be killed while fighting back. What would you do if there was a larger country next to the UK which had an overwhelming military advantage and a declared intention to kill every person here? Who broke every attempt by third parties to negotiate peace? Who had been invading and grabbing bits of land for generations, using spurious reasons of "defense" to preemptively kill off British people? I am not pro Hamas in any way, but I understand exactly why they fight against a country that just continues to kill them no matter what they do. What is the solution? I have no idea. But the current course can lead nowhere but to more and more and more killing until there is nobody left alive, not just there, but of every other country that eventually gets dragged into the war. | |||
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" Why would Hamas ever agree to any terms with Israel again?" They don't, unless it suits their purpose. You seem to think that Hamas wants peace. They do not. Read their charter. They want war until Israel and Jews are obliterated. They even explain, in their charter, that they might make a temporary peace in order to later make war and annihilate or subjugate non Muslims. It's there in black and white. It's not a secret; the ONLY peace that they will tolerate is one where their interpretation of Islam rules over everyone. Don't confuse Hamas with Palestinians. Many if not most Palestinians would dearly love peace, to coexist in prosperity with a peaceful Israel. But Hamas does not, and Hamas is what Israel has to deal with in Gaza. Hamas is not a reaction to Israel's wars or oppression (which is not to say that Israel is always right), they are offended by its very existence, and the lack of strict Sunni Muslim dominance. Just look around the rest of the Middle East, at affiliated movements. Seriously, read their charter. | |||
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" Why would Hamas ever agree to any terms with Israel again? They don't, unless it suits their purpose. You seem to think that Hamas wants peace. They do not. Read their charter. They want war until Israel and Jews are obliterated. They even explain, in their charter, that they might make a temporary peace in order to later make war and annihilate or subjugate non Muslims. It's there in black and white. It's not a secret; the ONLY peace that they will tolerate is one where their interpretation of Islam rules over everyone. Don't confuse Hamas with Palestinians. Many if not most Palestinians would dearly love peace, to coexist in prosperity with a peaceful Israel. But Hamas does not, and Hamas is what Israel has to deal with in Gaza. Hamas is not a reaction to Israel's wars or oppression (which is not to say that Israel is always right), they are offended by its very existence, and the lack of strict Sunni Muslim dominance. Just look around the rest of the Middle East, at affiliated movements. Seriously, read their charter." Exactly, Mrs x | |||
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"I don't think anyone should be surprised the ceasefire has hit a problem at phase 2. Israel now want the agreement in phase 2 to include the dismantling of the Hamas military infrastructure and the ceasefire to be extended while this part is negotiated. I'm not surprised by this, simply because Israel were agreeing to walk away with no actual change to Hamas. Hamsa are not going away, the only way I can see any type of compromise is for an agreement with Egypt / Jordon or other intermediary that could monitor a Gaza rebuild on the ground to ensure Hamas were not diverting aid to build up their military capabilities. However right now Hamas should agree to the extension of the ceasefire, they literally have nothing to lose and everything to gain. Why would Hamas ever agree to any terms with Israel again? It has become obvious that whatever Gazans do now, Israel is going to break every ceasefire and continue killing them until there is nobody left alive in Gaza. Gaza is no longer in a war for existence, they know that Israel is going to eventually kill every man, woman and child in Palestine. The only options they have are to either give up and be killed, or to be killed while fighting back. What would you do if there was a larger country next to the UK which had an overwhelming military advantage and a declared intention to kill every person here? Who broke every attempt by third parties to negotiate peace? Who had been invading and grabbing bits of land for generations, using spurious reasons of "defense" to preemptively kill off British people? I am not pro Hamas in any way, but I understand exactly why they fight against a country that just continues to kill them no matter what they do. What is the solution? I have no idea. But the current course can lead nowhere but to more and more and more killing until there is nobody left alive, not just there, but of every other country that eventually gets dragged into the war." couldn't agree with you more I've stated before I have no sympathy for hamas but for the innocent Palestinians the women the children! | |||
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"I don't think anyone should be surprised the ceasefire has hit a problem at phase 2. Israel now want the agreement in phase 2 to include the dismantling of the Hamas military infrastructure and the ceasefire to be extended while this part is negotiated. I'm not surprised by this, simply because Israel were agreeing to walk away with no actual change to Hamas. Hamsa are not going away, the only way I can see any type of compromise is for an agreement with Egypt / Jordon or other intermediary that could monitor a Gaza rebuild on the ground to ensure Hamas were not diverting aid to build up their military capabilities. However right now Hamas should agree to the extension of the ceasefire, they literally have nothing to lose and everything to gain. Why would Hamas ever agree to any terms with Israel again? It has become obvious that whatever Gazans do now, Israel is going to break every ceasefire and continue killing them until there is nobody left alive in Gaza. Gaza is no longer in a war for existence, they know that Israel is going to eventually kill every man, woman and child in Palestine. The only options they have are to either give up and be killed, or to be killed while fighting back. What would you do if there was a larger country next to the UK which had an overwhelming military advantage and a declared intention to kill every person here? Who broke every attempt by third parties to negotiate peace? Who had been invading and grabbing bits of land for generations, using spurious reasons of "defense" to preemptively kill off British people? I am not pro Hamas in any way, but I understand exactly why they fight against a country that just continues to kill them no matter what they do. What is the solution? I have no idea. But the current course can lead nowhere but to more and more and more killing until there is nobody left alive, not just there, but of every other country that eventually gets dragged into the war. couldn't agree with you more I've stated before I have no sympathy for hamas but for the innocent Palestinians the women the children!" Unfortunately all conflict results in deaths in the local population. Hamas knew what response their actions of Oct 7th would cause. They planned for over 3 years for this heinous act but did nothing to plan for the safety of its citizens, high ranking Hamas officials have even complained about this. The built hundreds of tunnels but no bunkers for the ordinary folk of Gaza. It's as if they were planning for civilian casualties, martyrdom is seen as a propaganda tool perhaps. I say perhaps, they absolutely want the deaths of the innocent to use for their sick propaganda. Over three years of planning for the attack but nothing to defend the ordinary Gazans, it's unbelievable really.... Mrs x | |||
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" If the remaining hostages are dead or not in the condition Hamas advised when this deal was brokered, it will likely be the end of Gaza. As brutal as it sounds, Israel cares less about today's hostages and more about Hamas: the existence of Hamas almost guarantees many more future hostages and wars/rockets (casualties). The end of Hamas (as it is currently), at any cost, is almost guaranteed. How that end happens is up to them and the people of Gaza. I can see Hamas existing for years to come, the fact that numbers have swollen during the war according the US sources, tells me that Palestinians in Gaza support Hamas. We also had glimpses into the organisation of Hamas and how it conducted itself during the war and hostage handovers, it left me no doubt that they rule over the area with force and intimidation. But looking at it dispassionately, is it any surprise Hamas is reinforced by the level of carnage inflicted on Gaza by Israel? What would you do if it was your family buried alive under the rubble?" blame hamas for fucking things up who would you blame. | |||
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"Israel obviously don’t care a great deal about the hostages. Surely it follows that the air strikes put them in mortal danger. The families begged Netanyahu to wait, but like the warmonger he is, he didn’t." Of course they do, that's why they release hundreds of convicted terrorists to gain only a few of their hostages back in return. Sometimes enough is enough and a line has to be drawn and hard, difficult decisions have to be made. Mrs x | |||
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"Why is it everyone attempting to argue for a ceasefire based on immediate circumstances and/or impacts of either sides responses in the short term……. Ffs this is a war that isn’t going to end this year, next year or in next 100 years. " The war might but the conflict probably won't, so long as religious fantasise remains, Mrs x | |||
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"Israel obviously don’t care a great deal about the hostages. Surely it follows that the air strikes put them in mortal danger. The families begged Netanyahu to wait, but like the warmonger he is, he didn’t." Israel has released over 2,000 prisoners and detainees in the last month in exchange for 25 living captives and the remains of eight others who had been held in Gaza. 24 surviving Israeli hostages held by Hamas apparently | |||
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"Why is it everyone attempting to argue for a ceasefire based on immediate circumstances and/or impacts of either sides responses in the short term……. Ffs this is a war that isn’t going to end this year, next year or in next 100 years. The war might but the conflict probably won't, so long as religious fantasise remains, Mrs x" I assume ou mean fanatics. Zionism is a extremist ideology too and does not represent Judaism. It's not just me saying that, it's every moderate Jew both in and outside of Israel saying that. | |||
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"Seems to be the usual defenders of the extremist Zionist movement..." Define Zionism/Zionist for me. "... in its massive disproportionate killing of civilization the deliberate starvation... Not really noticing that the death toll in Gaza is massive in civilian casualties..." "Massive"... "disproportionate"... in relation to what, exactly? Compared to what other war or armed conflict? Deaths in Gaza are a drop in the ocean compared to pretty much any other major conflict both in the Middle-East and around the world, both past and present. "Deliberate starvation"... you mean like how Hamas seize all food aid going into Gaza and keep it for themselves? Hoarding and eating like kings getting nice and fat, and/or selling it to re-arm themselves, meanwhile releasing Israeli hostages that are emaciated and starving? Do you mean that deliberate starvation? "willingly ignoring the obvious large scale atrocitis and law breaking being commited by Israel on a daily basis" If they are so obvious, and so large scale, I wouldn't have to repeatedly ask you for even a single example only to repeatedly go ignored/unanswered. The reporting of them would be all over the news and all over the internet, clear as day. Again: who told you this?? Where are you getting your information?? Give me the large scale atrocities, give me the law breaking. Be. Precise. "The death toll is the responsibility of the Israelis under international law. (That's the ICC not me saying that)." Hamas are the governing body of the people of Gaza. Voted in by them. Supported by them. They are responsible for the stewardship of both the land they govern and the people who are on it. The October 7th terror attack was praised and celebrated in the streets of Gaza. Hamas choose to build their tunnels and bases underneath hospitals and schools, choose to keep their weapons caches and militants there. They deliberately shield themselves with the civilians they're responsible to protect. When IDF warn civilians of upcoming operations, Hamas order the people of Gaza to not move, not flee... to martyr themselves "for the cause". Hamas WANT civilian casualities in Gaza. Because they are fucking terrorists and cowards. What is it about all this that you clearly cannot (or will not) understand? | |||
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"Seems to be the usual defenders of the extremist Zionist movement... Define Zionism/Zionist for me. ... in its massive disproportionate killing of civilization the deliberate starvation... Not really noticing that the death toll in Gaza is massive in civilian casualties... "Massive"... "disproportionate"... in relation to what, exactly? Compared to what other war or armed conflict? Deaths in Gaza are a drop in the ocean compared to pretty much any other major conflict both in the Middle-East and around the world, both past and present. "Deliberate starvation"... you mean like how Hamas seize all food aid going into Gaza and keep it for themselves? Hoarding and eating like kings getting nice and fat, and/or selling it to re-arm themselves, meanwhile releasing Israeli hostages that are emaciated and starving? Do you mean that deliberate starvation? willingly ignoring the obvious large scale atrocitis and law breaking being commited by Israel on a daily basis If they are so obvious, and so large scale, I wouldn't have to repeatedly ask you for even a single example only to repeatedly go ignored/unanswered. The reporting of them would be all over the news and all over the internet, clear as day. Again: who told you this?? Where are you getting your information?? Give me the large scale atrocities, give me the law breaking. Be. Precise. The death toll is the responsibility of the Israelis under international law. (That's the ICC not me saying that). Hamas are the governing body of the people of Gaza. Voted in by them. Supported by them. They are responsible for the stewardship of both the land they govern and the people who are on it. The October 7th terror attack was praised and celebrated in the streets of Gaza. Hamas choose to build their tunnels and bases underneath hospitals and schools, choose to keep their weapons caches and militants there. They deliberately shield themselves with the civilians they're responsible to protect. When IDF warn civilians of upcoming operations, Hamas order the people of Gaza to not move, not flee... to martyr themselves "for the cause". Hamas WANT civilian casualities in Gaza. Because they are fucking terrorists and cowards. What is it about all this that you clearly cannot (or will not) understand?" Hamas committed atrocities - the same atrocities that the Zionists commit 100 times over and that's deemed ok by some people - using god knows what explanations as a rationale to justify it. | |||
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"Hamas committed atrocities - the same atrocities that the Zionists commit 100 times over and that's deemed ok by some people." By all means keep swerving and dodging all my questions by slightly re-wording and repeating the same vague nonsense. I'll just keep asking. What is Zionism/ a Zionist? What atrocities have they committed? What atrocities that are the same as October 7th? Who are "some people" and where/when are they deeming atrocities to be okay? Be precise. | |||
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"Hamas committed atrocities - the same atrocities that the Zionists commit 100 times over and that's deemed ok by some people. By all means keep swerving and dodging all my questions by slightly re-wording and repeating the same vague nonsense. I'll just keep asking. What is Zionism/ a Zionist? What atrocities have they committed? What atrocities that are the same as October 7th? Who are "some people" and where/when are they deeming atrocities to be okay? Be precise." Anywhere on the globe safer living amongst Jewish people than Islam. Hamas killed people from; France 35 citizens, Thailand 33, US 31, Ukraine 21, Russia 19, UK 12, Nepal 10, Germany 10, Argentina 9, Canada 6, Romania 5, Portugal 4, China 4, Philippines 4, Austria. Islam kills everything and anything | |||
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"Hamas committed atrocities - the same atrocities that the Zionists commit 100 times over and that's deemed ok by some people. By all means keep swerving and dodging all my questions by slightly re-wording and repeating the same vague nonsense. I'll just keep asking. What is Zionism/ a Zionist? What atrocities have they committed? What atrocities that are the same as October 7th? Who are "some people" and where/when are they deeming atrocities to be okay? Be precise. Anywhere on the globe safer living amongst Jewish people than Islam. Hamas killed people from; France 35 citizens, Thailand 33, US 31, Ukraine 21, Russia 19, UK 12, Nepal 10, Germany 10, Argentina 9, Canada 6, Romania 5, Portugal 4, China 4, Philippines 4, Austria. Islam kills everything and anything " I’m interested to know, how many died on Oct 7th as a result of the Hannibal directive? The victims families would like to know too. They have been denied an investigation until the “war” is declared over. It shouldn’t be a surprise that Netanyahu breaks the ceasefire to keep the war going, he needs it to hide his guilt. | |||
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"I’m interested to know, how many died on Oct 7th as a result of the Hannibal directive? The victims families would like to know too. They have been denied an investigation until the “war” is declared over. It shouldn’t be a surprise that Netanyahu breaks the ceasefire to keep the war going, he needs it to hide his guilt." A report was published in February. Israel admitted that they underestimated Hamas's capabilities and that some people were caught in friendly fire. The people caught up in this attack would still be alive and free if it were not for Hamas - by invoking accusations of 'Hannibal Directive' you're trying to deflect the blame onto Israel. | |||
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"Hamas committed atrocities - the same atrocities that the Zionists commit 100 times over and that's deemed ok by some people. By all means keep swerving and dodging all my questions by slightly re-wording and repeating the same vague nonsense. I'll just keep asking. What is Zionism/ a Zionist? What atrocities have they committed? What atrocities that are the same as October 7th? Who are "some people" and where/when are they deeming atrocities to be okay? Be precise. Anywhere on the globe safer living amongst Jewish people than Islam. Hamas killed people from; France 35 citizens, Thailand 33, US 31, Ukraine 21, Russia 19, UK 12, Nepal 10, Germany 10, Argentina 9, Canada 6, Romania 5, Portugal 4, China 4, Philippines 4, Austria. Islam kills everything and anything I’m interested to know, how many died on Oct 7th as a result of the Hannibal directive? The victims families would like to know too. They have been denied an investigation until the “war” is declared over. It shouldn’t be a surprise that Netanyahu breaks the ceasefire to keep the war going, he needs it to hide his guilt." You do know the Hannibal Directive was revoked in 2016? Mrs x | |||
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"I’m interested to know, how many died on Oct 7th as a result of the Hannibal directive? The victims families would like to know too. They have been denied an investigation until the “war” is declared over. It shouldn’t be a surprise that Netanyahu breaks the ceasefire to keep the war going, he needs it to hide his guilt.A report was published in February. Israel admitted that they underestimated Hamas's capabilities and that some people were caught in friendly fire. The people caught up in this attack would still be alive and free if it were not for Hamas - by invoking accusations of 'Hannibal Directive' you're trying to deflect the blame onto Israel. " “Accusations of “Hannibal Directive” is provocative language. They had to admit to applying it after many months of denial. And I’m not aware of a full investigation. Israeli’s also want to know why they took hours to respond to an attack they’d been warned about. It looks like Netanyahu used the attack for political leverage, an opportunity. This is not deflecting blame, it is apportioning it. Nobody is innocent in this apart from many of the dead on both sides. | |||
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"I’m interested to know, how many died on Oct 7th as a result of the Hannibal directive? The victims families would like to know too. They have been denied an investigation until the “war” is declared over. It shouldn’t be a surprise that Netanyahu breaks the ceasefire to keep the war going, he needs it to hide his guilt.A report was published in February. Israel admitted that they underestimated Hamas's capabilities and that some people were caught in friendly fire. The people caught up in this attack would still be alive and free if it were not for Hamas - by invoking accusations of 'Hannibal Directive' you're trying to deflect the blame onto Israel. “Accusations of “Hannibal Directive” is provocative language. They had to admit to applying it after many months of denial. And I’m not aware of a full investigation. Israeli’s also want to know why they took hours to respond to an attack they’d been warned about. It looks like Netanyahu used the attack for political leverage, an opportunity. This is not deflecting blame, it is apportioning it. Nobody is innocent in this apart from many of the dead on both sides." There is a huge distinction to be made though, and when you say 'Nobody is innocent in this' you are being ingenious. Hamas committed this attack with the intention of killing Israeli citizens, the IDF responded to this attack without such intention. I'm not saying civillians weren't caught up in the crossfire or that the IDF and protocol they followed was not wrong but if Hamas had chosen not to attack on that day then the civilians would still be alive. That's a huge distinction between the parties here, Hamas wanted to kill, the IDF responded to the killings. Mrs x | |||
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"I’m interested to know, how many died on Oct 7th as a result of the Hannibal directive? The victims families would like to know too. They have been denied an investigation until the “war” is declared over. It shouldn’t be a surprise that Netanyahu breaks the ceasefire to keep the war going, he needs it to hide his guilt.A report was published in February. Israel admitted that they underestimated Hamas's capabilities and that some people were caught in friendly fire. The people caught up in this attack would still be alive and free if it were not for Hamas - by invoking accusations of 'Hannibal Directive' you're trying to deflect the blame onto Israel. “Accusations of “Hannibal Directive” is provocative language. They had to admit to applying it after many months of denial. And I’m not aware of a full investigation. Israeli’s also want to know why they took hours to respond to an attack they’d been warned about. It looks like Netanyahu used the attack for political leverage, an opportunity. This is not deflecting blame, it is apportioning it. Nobody is innocent in this apart from many of the dead on both sides.There is a huge distinction to be made though, and when you say 'Nobody is innocent in this' you are being ingenious. Hamas committed this attack with the intention of killing Israeli citizens, the IDF responded to this attack without such intention. I'm not saying civillians weren't caught up in the crossfire or that the IDF and protocol they followed was not wrong but if Hamas had chosen not to attack on that day then the civilians would still be alive. That's a huge distinction between the parties here, Hamas wanted to kill, the IDF responded to the killings. Mrs x" As you well know this is a circular argument. Hamas only exists in the first place because of injustices heaped on Palestinian people in Gaza. There is bloodlust by both sides in equal measure by both sides, and both regularly cross the line of 'rules of engagement'. It's not black nor white, good versus bad, and will likely stay that way forever. | |||
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"The bombardment that has followed is a crime. The International Court of Justice has said in 2004 and in 2024 that Israel didn’t have the right to defend itself. The ICJ has said “Israel could not invoke the right to self-defence in an occupied territory” what makes anyone here believe their opinion is better informed than the ICJ or greater than international law?" Semantics saves lives... | |||
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"Why is it everyone attempting to argue for a ceasefire based on immediate circumstances and/or impacts of either sides responses in the short term……. Ffs this is a war that isn’t going to end this year, next year or in next 100 years. The war might but the conflict probably won't, so long as religious fantasise remains, Mrs x" War or conflict semantics, both are inextricably linked | |||
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"I don't think anyone should be surprised the ceasefire has hit a problem at phase 2. Israel now want the agreement in phase 2 to include the dismantling of the Hamas military infrastructure and the ceasefire to be extended while this part is negotiated. I'm not surprised by this, simply because Israel were agreeing to walk away with no actual change to Hamas. Hamsa are not going away, the only way I can see any type of compromise is for an agreement with Egypt / Jordon or other intermediary that could monitor a Gaza rebuild on the ground to ensure Hamas were not diverting aid to build up their military capabilities. However right now Hamas should agree to the extension of the ceasefire, they literally have nothing to lose and everything to gain. On Hamas side they need only to release the reported 24 hostages ? I am glad that someone mentioned the very last line.. So what people are doing is giving Israel an excuse for an agreement they were never going to honour Phase 1 had been completed… on to phase 2 . That is not a fair comment, who has given Israel excuses?" Well the agreement was in phase 1 , a 6 week ceasefire.. 4 people would be released each week, once that was concluded then onto phase 2… 24 people… 6 weeks of 4 people were released, in that time even Israel said there were no violations (because we all know that would have been used as an excuse to keep blowing shit up everywhere) Israel response… violating every single human rights law by stopping the delivery of humanitarian aid… and food… and fuel …. And water …. And electricity You can’t tell me that’s an “acting in good faith” measure…. Especially since the far right hardcore Jewish parties in the coalition explicitly said that if benny were to proceed to phase 2, they would bring forward a no confidence vote and bring down the government! No going to lie .. only thing I am surprised about is that it took this long, well, this much patience before missiles started being launched back in Isreal Israel had no intention ever to get to phase 2… once everyone is released they will find another excuse upon another excuse not to go forward | |||
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"As long as Israel believes it has the right to occupy land outside it’s own borders there will never be peace in the region. " Or maybe it will be as long as people want to annihilate the Jews and attack them on a daily basis. Have you seen how tiny Israel is? They must be rubbish at trying to occupy land outside its borders. In fact it gave back land to Egypt in 1982 that amounted to almost three times the total area of Israel when it gave back the Sinai peninsula to Egypt. Strange behaviour according to your view, from a country trying to occupy land outside its borders. But you're not going to mention that because it won't fit into your narrative of a land grabbing Israel. Mrs x | |||
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"General open Question here: Those that support Zionism - what is your message to Jews who survived the haulocaust who don't support Zionism because of its similarity to the nazi atrocities? " Such poor taste, a new low, Mrs x | |||
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"I don't think anyone should be surprised the ceasefire has hit a problem at phase 2. Israel now want the agreement in phase 2 to include the dismantling of the Hamas military infrastructure and the ceasefire to be extended while this part is negotiated. I'm not surprised by this, simply because Israel were agreeing to walk away with no actual change to Hamas. Hamsa are not going away, the only way I can see any type of compromise is for an agreement with Egypt / Jordon or other intermediary that could monitor a Gaza rebuild on the ground to ensure Hamas were not diverting aid to build up their military capabilities. However right now Hamas should agree to the extension of the ceasefire, they literally have nothing to lose and everything to gain. On Hamas side they need only to release the reported 24 hostages ? I am glad that someone mentioned the very last line.. So what people are doing is giving Israel an excuse for an agreement they were never going to honour Phase 1 had been completed… on to phase 2 . That is not a fair comment, who has given Israel excuses? Well the agreement was in phase 1 , a 6 week ceasefire.. 4 people would be released each week, once that was concluded then onto phase 2… 24 people… 6 weeks of 4 people were released, in that time even Israel said there were no violations (because we all know that would have been used as an excuse to keep blowing shit up everywhere) Israel response… violating every single human rights law by stopping the delivery of humanitarian aid… and food… and fuel …. And water …. And electricity You can’t tell me that’s an “acting in good faith” measure…. Especially since the far right hardcore Jewish parties in the coalition explicitly said that if benny were to proceed to phase 2, they would bring forward a no confidence vote and bring down the government! No going to lie .. only thing I am surprised about is that it took this long, well, this much patience before missiles started being launched back in Isreal Israel had no intention ever to get to phase 2… once everyone is released they will find another excuse upon another excuse not to go forward " I understand the events and the phases, it was the specific "so what people are doing is giving Israel an excuse". I haven't read anyone giving Israel excuses. I said above your comment that I'm not surprised they didn't get to phase 2 as the total removal of Hamas was never on the table. | |||
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"I don't think anyone should be surprised the ceasefire has hit a problem at phase 2. Israel now want the agreement in phase 2 to include the dismantling of the Hamas military infrastructure and the ceasefire to be extended while this part is negotiated. I'm not surprised by this, simply because Israel were agreeing to walk away with no actual change to Hamas. Hamsa are not going away, the only way I can see any type of compromise is for an agreement with Egypt / Jordon or other intermediary that could monitor a Gaza rebuild on the ground to ensure Hamas were not diverting aid to build up their military capabilities. However right now Hamas should agree to the extension of the ceasefire, they literally have nothing to lose and everything to gain. On Hamas side they need only to release the reported 24 hostages ? I am glad that someone mentioned the very last line.. So what people are doing is giving Israel an excuse for an agreement they were never going to honour Phase 1 had been completed… on to phase 2 . That is not a fair comment, who has given Israel excuses? Well the agreement was in phase 1 , a 6 week ceasefire.. 4 people would be released each week, once that was concluded then onto phase 2… 24 people… 6 weeks of 4 people were released, in that time even Israel said there were no violations (because we all know that would have been used as an excuse to keep blowing shit up everywhere) Israel response… violating every single human rights law by stopping the delivery of humanitarian aid… and food… and fuel …. And water …. And electricity You can’t tell me that’s an “acting in good faith” measure…. Especially since the far right hardcore Jewish parties in the coalition explicitly said that if benny were to proceed to phase 2, they would bring forward a no confidence vote and bring down the government! No going to lie .. only thing I am surprised about is that it took this long, well, this much patience before missiles started being launched back in Isreal Israel had no intention ever to get to phase 2… once everyone is released they will find another excuse upon another excuse not to go forward " yet again I couldn't agree with you more Fabio but sadly there's a couple of people on here who will defend Netanyahu and his cronies as they believe Israel have conducted themselves with impeccable behaviour! | |||
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"General open Question here: Those that support Zionism - what is your message to Jews who survived the haulocaust who don't support Zionism because of its similarity to the nazi atrocities? " I'm not convinced you understand what zionism is. Question for you; What do Hamas want? Plain and simple what is it their end goal? | |||
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"General open Question here: Those that support Zionism - what is your message to Jews who survived the haulocaust who don't support Zionism because of its similarity to the nazi atrocities? I'm not convinced you understand what zionism is. Question for you; What do Hamas want? Plain and simple what is it their end goal? " It's not the total eradication of Jews and a Jewish state, by any chance? Mrs x | |||
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"General open Question here: Those that support Zionism - what is your message to Jews who survived the haulocaust who don't support Zionism because of its similarity to the nazi atrocities? I'm not convinced you understand what zionism is. Question for you; What do Hamas want? Plain and simple what is it their end goal? It's not the total eradication of Jews and a Jewish state, by any chance? Mrs x" Not just the Jews is it. The prophet stated his intentions for the death of all disbelievers, infidels and idolators. That’s all of us. | |||
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"As long as Israel believes it has the right to occupy land outside it’s own borders there will never be peace in the region. Or maybe it will be as long as people want to annihilate the Jews and attack them on a daily basis. Have you seen how tiny Israel is? They must be rubbish at trying to occupy land outside its borders. In fact it gave back land to Egypt in 1982 that amounted to almost three times the total area of Israel when it gave back the Sinai peninsula to Egypt. Strange behaviour according to your view, from a country trying to occupy land outside its borders. But you're not going to mention that because it won't fit into your narrative of a land grabbing Israel. Mrs x" The simple fact is, Israel decided to annex and occupy land outside its own defined borders. You say they have given back land, that in itself is an admission that they were occupying land that was not theirs to occupy. Perhaps they would generate less hatred for them among their neighbours if they hadn’t tried to annexe lands outside their own borders that were clearly defined in the creation of the State of Israel. 🤷🏻♂️ | |||
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"The bombardment that has followed is a crime. The International Court of Justice has said in 2004 and in 2024 that Israel didn’t have the right to defend itself. The ICJ has said “Israel could not invoke the right to self-defence in an occupied territory” what makes anyone here believe their opinion is better informed than the ICJ or greater than international law?" It's very telling that Gaza has been considered occupied since 1967, but not when Egypt walked in there and used it to support militant attacks post-1948. Considering the 2005 disengagement, there's a lot wrong with saying Gaza is occupied, because the only control Israel had is over the demarcation line (it isn't a proper border) and the airspace. So, what is any country supposed to do when a region has spent two decades firing rockets at you and then breaks through a fence to commit a massacre? "Oh a technicality of law tells us we cannot do it, best give up and stay home then". 
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"Those that support Zionism - what is your message to Jews who survived the haulocaust who don't support Zionism because of its similarity to the nazi atrocities?" There is no equivalence to Nazism at all - and under the IHRA working Definition of Antisemitism, such accusations are actually antisemitic. Zionism is simply the desire for Jews to have self-determination in the land where their culture formed. You can be a left wing or a right wing Zionist, or a religious Zionist. There are several flavours to choose from. Additionally, you can live in Israel and support the aims of Zionism - and still oppose Netenyahu's policy or government. Likud is not the only political voice in the country. | |||
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"The simple fact is, Israel decided to annex and occupy land outside its own defined borders. " No they did not. Israel has not annexed Gaza or The West Bank - you cannot technically annex what is already yours. The Golan Heights is a different matter and most Druze seem to want to be under Israeli governance anyway. So, let me explain... The two disputed territories lie within the boundaries of the British Mandate for Palestine. Britain was mandated (I.E. obliged by law) to create the Jewish homeland within the borders of Eretz Israel - and thus far, no law has ever replaced this. The lines that we consider the borders are not official state borders - they are still the demarcation lines set up after the 1948 war. Check the map, you will see dashed lines, not hard borders. The 1947 partition plan was not legally binding, the Jordanian annexation of the West Bank was not legally binding, and neither was Egypt's occupation of Gaza. This is why it is probably more accurate to define the regions as disputed rather than occupied. | |||
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" Why would Hamas ever agree to any terms with Israel again? They don't, unless it suits their purpose. You seem to think that Hamas wants peace. They do not. Read their charter. They want war until Israel and Jews are obliterated. They even explain, in their charter, that they might make a temporary peace in order to later make war and annihilate or subjugate non Muslims. It's there in black and white. It's not a secret; the ONLY peace that they will tolerate is one where their interpretation of Islam rules over everyone. Don't confuse Hamas with Palestinians. Many if not most Palestinians would dearly love peace, to coexist in prosperity with a peaceful Israel. But Hamas does not, and Hamas is what Israel has to deal with in Gaza. Hamas is not a reaction to Israel's wars or oppression (which is not to say that Israel is always right), they are offended by its very existence, and the lack of strict Sunni Muslim dominance. Just look around the rest of the Middle East, at affiliated movements. Seriously, read their charter." Israel is not killing Hamas members. Israel is non-selectively killing everyone in Gaza. It is pointless now to say "Hamas wants this, Hamas says that". The brutal fact is that Israel has declared war on every person in Palestine. Even if there was no more Hamas, every single Gazan has had family and friends killed by Israel, has lost all of their possessions, has been victimised by Israel for their whole lives. I'm sure that many Palestinians want peace, but I am equally certain that every Palestinian knows that Israel will never allow them peace and prosperity. Israel is committed to conducting genocide upon Palestine, there is now no way back as every single Palestinian has been made to hate Israel for what it has done to their country. Put yourself in the shoes of a Palestinian. Your entire life you have had to live in poverty inside a wall enclosing your country. Your infrastructure has been destroyed, you have no power, water, sewerage. You are under oppression from a country that allows settlers to steal your land, that kills you if you attempt to fight back in any way. Your homes, schools, hospitals are indiscriminately bombed by the oppressor because some of your freedom fighters _might_ be inside them (without ever any need for proof being demonstrated). You are utterly desperate because every day you see more of your people being killed. You negotiate ceasefires, and it is always the oppressor that breaks those ceasefires. What would you do? The truth is it does not matter what the tiny forces of Hamas have ever stated as objectives, as Israel's actual actions - not just words - are a war of genocide against everybody in Palestine. For every Israeli killed during the current war, there have been 50 Palestinians killed, 49 of whom are completely innocent people. Don't dress this up as a war of righteous Israel against the evil forces of Hamas. This is the slaughter of a small undefended country by an overwhelming military force. Just say it for what it is. | |||
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"General open Question here: Those that support Zionism - what is your message to Jews who survived the haulocaust who don't support Zionism because of its similarity to the nazi atrocities? Such poor taste, a new low, Mrs x" ? It's a fair question. And I'm not having a go at you Mrs X, I mean people in general not so much supporting it but allowing it to happen by not sanctioning Israel or agreeing to netenyahus arrest warrant, making excuses for IDF's actions, justifying netenyahus tactics etc... | |||
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" Why would Hamas ever agree to any terms with Israel again? They don't, unless it suits their purpose. You seem to think that Hamas wants peace. They do not. Read their charter. They want war until Israel and Jews are obliterated. They even explain, in their charter, that they might make a temporary peace in order to later make war and annihilate or subjugate non Muslims. It's there in black and white. It's not a secret; the ONLY peace that they will tolerate is one where their interpretation of Islam rules over everyone. Don't confuse Hamas with Palestinians. Many if not most Palestinians would dearly love peace, to coexist in prosperity with a peaceful Israel. But Hamas does not, and Hamas is what Israel has to deal with in Gaza. Hamas is not a reaction to Israel's wars or oppression (which is not to say that Israel is always right), they are offended by its very existence, and the lack of strict Sunni Muslim dominance. Just look around the rest of the Middle East, at affiliated movements. Seriously, read their charter. Israel is not killing Hamas members. Israel is non-selectively killing everyone in Gaza. It is pointless now to say "Hamas wants this, Hamas says that". The brutal fact is that Israel has declared war on every person in Palestine. Even if there was no more Hamas, every single Gazan has had family and friends killed by Israel, has lost all of their possessions, has been victimised by Israel for their whole lives. I'm sure that many Palestinians want peace, but I am equally certain that every Palestinian knows that Israel will never allow them peace and prosperity. Israel is committed to conducting genocide upon Palestine, there is now no way back as every single Palestinian has been made to hate Israel for what it has done to their country. Put yourself in the shoes of a Palestinian. Your entire life you have had to live in poverty inside a wall enclosing your country. Your infrastructure has been destroyed, you have no power, water, sewerage. You are under oppression from a country that allows settlers to steal your land, that kills you if you attempt to fight back in any way. Your homes, schools, hospitals are indiscriminately bombed by the oppressor because some of your freedom fighters _might_ be inside them (without ever any need for proof being demonstrated). You are utterly desperate because every day you see more of your people being killed. You negotiate ceasefires, and it is always the oppressor that breaks those ceasefires. What would you do? The truth is it does not matter what the tiny forces of Hamas have ever stated as objectives, as Israel's actual actions - not just words - are a war of genocide against everybody in Palestine. For every Israeli killed during the current war, there have been 50 Palestinians killed, 49 of whom are completely innocent people. Don't dress this up as a war of righteous Israel against the evil forces of Hamas. This is the slaughter of a small undefended country by an overwhelming military force. Just say it for what it is." Well said
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" Why would Hamas ever agree to any terms with Israel again? They don't, unless it suits their purpose. You seem to think that Hamas wants peace. They do not. Read their charter. They want war until Israel and Jews are obliterated. They even explain, in their charter, that they might make a temporary peace in order to later make war and annihilate or subjugate non Muslims. It's there in black and white. It's not a secret; the ONLY peace that they will tolerate is one where their interpretation of Islam rules over everyone. Don't confuse Hamas with Palestinians. Many if not most Palestinians would dearly love peace, to coexist in prosperity with a peaceful Israel. But Hamas does not, and Hamas is what Israel has to deal with in Gaza. Hamas is not a reaction to Israel's wars or oppression (which is not to say that Israel is always right), they are offended by its very existence, and the lack of strict Sunni Muslim dominance. Just look around the rest of the Middle East, at affiliated movements. Seriously, read their charter. Israel is not killing Hamas members. Israel is non-selectively killing everyone in Gaza. It is pointless now to say "Hamas wants this, Hamas says that". The brutal fact is that Israel has declared war on every person in Palestine. Even if there was no more Hamas, every single Gazan has had family and friends killed by Israel, has lost all of their possessions, has been victimised by Israel for their whole lives. I'm sure that many Palestinians want peace, but I am equally certain that every Palestinian knows that Israel will never allow them peace and prosperity. Israel is committed to conducting genocide upon Palestine, there is now no way back as every single Palestinian has been made to hate Israel for what it has done to their country. Put yourself in the shoes of a Palestinian. Your entire life you have had to live in poverty inside a wall enclosing your country. Your infrastructure has been destroyed, you have no power, water, sewerage. You are under oppression from a country that allows settlers to steal your land, that kills you if you attempt to fight back in any way. Your homes, schools, hospitals are indiscriminately bombed by the oppressor because some of your freedom fighters _might_ be inside them (without ever any need for proof being demonstrated). You are utterly desperate because every day you see more of your people being killed. You negotiate ceasefires, and it is always the oppressor that breaks those ceasefires. What would you do? The truth is it does not matter what the tiny forces of Hamas have ever stated as objectives, as Israel's actual actions - not just words - are a war of genocide against everybody in Palestine. For every Israeli killed during the current war, there have been 50 Palestinians killed, 49 of whom are completely innocent people. Don't dress this up as a war of righteous Israel against the evil forces of Hamas. This is the slaughter of a small undefended country by an overwhelming military force. Just say it for what it is." Problem you have is that of over 4 million Palestinians almost 50,000 have been killed in this conflict. His figure includes an estimated 20,000 Hamas fighters. So the number of civillian fatalities is not 10%, it's under 1% of the number of Palestinians in the area. So that means that over 99% of Palestinians are still alive, and half of them choose to live, safely, as Israeli citizens within Israel. It's a terrible tragedy, the loss of innocent lives, but in terms of Urban Warfare the casualties are below the level seen in most other similar conflicts world wide. Now that's no consolation for those killed it's a fact, no matter how unpalatable. So if the genocide of Palestinians was Israels objective how do you account for the actual figures? I know it's a very emotional subject but facts cannot and should not be ignored. It's ludicrous to suggest Israel want to kill all Palestinians and then say 'tiny Hamas' objectives don't matter. Hamas will always try and fulfill their objectives of annihilating Jews and a Jewish state. To claim otherwise is extremely niave and demonstrates limited understanding of Islamic terrorism. I'm just saying it for what it is. Mrs x | |||
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"General open Question here: Those that support Zionism - what is your message to Jews who survived the haulocaust who don't support Zionism because of its similarity to the nazi atrocities? Such poor taste, a new low, Mrs x ? It's a fair question. And I'm not having a go at you Mrs X, I mean people in general not so much supporting it but allowing it to happen by not sanctioning Israel or agreeing to netenyahus arrest warrant, making excuses for IDF's actions, justifying netenyahus tactics etc... " I never said you were having a go but nothing you've said is in anyway similar to Nazism and for you to suggest it is is horrendous, Mrs x | |||
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"The simple fact is, Israel decided to annex and occupy land outside its own defined borders. No they did not. Israel has not annexed Gaza or The West Bank - you cannot technically annex what is already yours. The Golan Heights is a different matter and most Druze seem to want to be under Israeli governance anyway. So, let me explain... The two disputed territories lie within the boundaries of the British Mandate for Palestine. Britain was mandated (I.E. obliged by law) to create the Jewish homeland within the borders of Eretz Israel - and thus far, no law has ever replaced this. The lines that we consider the borders are not official state borders - they are still the demarcation lines set up after the 1948 war. Check the map, you will see dashed lines, not hard borders. The 1947 partition plan was not legally binding, the Jordanian annexation of the West Bank was not legally binding, and neither was Egypt's occupation of Gaza. This is why it is probably more accurate to define the regions as disputed rather than occupied." Well said but it's difficult to argue a point to those that choose to ignore historical facts but would rather base their opinons on what they've seen on social media. It's as if the Six Day War and Yom Kippur War never happened, Mrs x | |||
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" Why would Hamas ever agree to any terms with Israel again? They don't, unless it suits their purpose. You seem to think that Hamas wants peace. They do not. Read their charter. They want war until Israel and Jews are obliterated. They even explain, in their charter, that they might make a temporary peace in order to later make war and annihilate or subjugate non Muslims. It's there in black and white. It's not a secret; the ONLY peace that they will tolerate is one where their interpretation of Islam rules over everyone. Don't confuse Hamas with Palestinians. Many if not most Palestinians would dearly love peace, to coexist in prosperity with a peaceful Israel. But Hamas does not, and Hamas is what Israel has to deal with in Gaza. Hamas is not a reaction to Israel's wars or oppression (which is not to say that Israel is always right), they are offended by its very existence, and the lack of strict Sunni Muslim dominance. Just look around the rest of the Middle East, at affiliated movements. Seriously, read their charter. Israel is not killing Hamas members. Israel is non-selectively killing everyone in Gaza. It is pointless now to say "Hamas wants this, Hamas says that". The brutal fact is that Israel has declared war on every person in Palestine. Even if there was no more Hamas, every single Gazan has had family and friends killed by Israel, has lost all of their possessions, has been victimised by Israel for their whole lives. I'm sure that many Palestinians want peace, but I am equally certain that every Palestinian knows that Israel will never allow them peace and prosperity. Israel is committed to conducting genocide upon Palestine, there is now no way back as every single Palestinian has been made to hate Israel for what it has done to their country. Put yourself in the shoes of a Palestinian. Your entire life you have had to live in poverty inside a wall enclosing your country. Your infrastructure has been destroyed, you have no power, water, sewerage. You are under oppression from a country that allows settlers to steal your land, that kills you if you attempt to fight back in any way. Your homes, schools, hospitals are indiscriminately bombed by the oppressor because some of your freedom fighters _might_ be inside them (without ever any need for proof being demonstrated). You are utterly desperate because every day you see more of your people being killed. You negotiate ceasefires, and it is always the oppressor that breaks those ceasefires. What would you do? The truth is it does not matter what the tiny forces of Hamas have ever stated as objectives, as Israel's actual actions - not just words - are a war of genocide against everybody in Palestine. For every Israeli killed during the current war, there have been 50 Palestinians killed, 49 of whom are completely innocent people. Don't dress this up as a war of righteous Israel against the evil forces of Hamas. This is the slaughter of a small undefended country by an overwhelming military force. Just say it for what it is." These people were cheering in the streets when Hamas was slaughter Israeli women JERUSALEM, Dec 13 (Reuters) - Almost three in four Palestinians believe the Oct. 7 attack by Hamas on Israel was correct, and the ensuing Gaza war has lifted support for the Islamist group both there and in the West Bank, a survey from a respected Palestinian polling institute found. The Palestinian Center for Policy Survey and Research (PCPSR) findings were published as international alarm grows over the spiralling Palestinian civilian toll in the Israeli counter-offensive against Hamas, now in its third month. | |||
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"Well said but it's difficult to argue a point to those that choose to ignore historical facts but would rather base their opinons on what they've seen on social media. It's as if the Six Day War and Yom Kippur War never happened, Mrs x" Thank you - I've made this my special interest subject over the last few years. Insane really as I have no skin in this game at all - it's just a fascinating history. I even recently published a history of this on Substack, because way too many people just don't know the whole story. | |||
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" Israel is not killing Hamas members. " False. " Israel is non-selectively killing everyone in Gaza. " False. " It is pointless now to say "Hamas wants this, Hamas says that". " False. And you know the truth of it, so you're now effectively saying "okay, so Hamas are genocidal Jew-haters, but now let's ignore that fact, because it's inconvenient to my narrative". " The brutal fact is that Israel has declared war on every person in Palestine. " False. Seriously, you take figurative emotive statements then hold them up like fact. "...The truth is it does not matter what the tiny forces of Hamas have ever stated as objectives " Wrong. It clearly demonstrates that they are not a resistance force reacting against a tyrannical and oppressive coloniser. It proves beyond shadow of a doubt that they are violent Islamic supremacists who will take any opportunity to stage attacks against Israel until their mission of obliterating the Jewish state is fulfilled, and (most importantly in the content of what was being said) they do not seek or desire peace. Moreover, your use the word "tiny" is... Interesting. They are not really tiny, in that they are part of the Muslim Brotherhood and their existence has to be taken in the context of affiliated groups in the Middle East. Israel is not dealing with 10,000 fanatics, but millions of people in the region who oppose the existence of Jews (and many other groups) in "their" Middle East (and have been doing so for centuries). " as Israel's actual actions - not just words - are a war of genocide against everybody in Palestine. " False. " For every Israeli killed during the current war, there have been 50 Palestinians killed... " Also false. And this is an easy ratio to get right, with a quick Google search. You are really just throwing out statements based upon what you "feel", aren't you? " ...49 of whom are completely innocent people. " Also totally false - how are you not ashamed at this point with the scale of your misinformation? " Don't dress this up as a war of righteous Israel against the evil forces of Hamas. " Israel might not be wholly righteous in this war, but Hamas is evil, objectively, including to their "own" people. " This is the slaughter of a small undefended country by an overwhelming military force. Just say it for what it is." It is the unfortunate result of a fanatical ideology who "love death like Israelis love life" (Hamas's words) coming up against a much stronger military force, who do not want to bend over and take what Hamas threatens. | |||
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"Hamas only exists in the first place because of injustices heaped on Palestinian people in Gaza." This is just factually incorrect. Who told you this? "There is bloodlust by both sides in equal measure by both sides," Again, wrong. It's not equal measure by any stretch, by any definition. The people of Israel are more than willing to share the Holy Land and have it as a free nation where Jew, Christian and Muslim all can live and pray in peace together. Hamas, the majority of the people of Gaza and the self-proclaimed "Palestinians" have no interest in sharing the land, and their long-term end goals are death of every single Jew, man, woman and child, and the utter eradication of the Jewish state of Israel. It's fucking chalk and cheese. "The International Court of Justice has said in 2004 and in 2024 that Israel didn’t have the right to defend itself. The ICJ has said “Israel could not invoke the right to self-defence in an occupied territory”" They can say whatever the fuck they want. Each and every sovereign nation has just as much "right" as any other to defend itself against aggressors. It's pretty simple. What do the ICJ mean when they say "occupied territory"? All territory is "occupied" one way or another... "As long as Israel believes it has the right to occupy land outside it’s own borders there will never be peace in the region." You've got that backwards. Israel are the only ones in the region willing to live peacefully alongside its neighbours. So, as long as all the other surrounding Arab states keep hating all Jews, and all the extremist islamic terrorist groups it spawns keep attacking Israel, there will never be peace in the region. "General open Question here: Those that support Zionism - what is your message to Jews who survived the haulocaust who don't support Zionism because of its similarity to the nazi atrocities?" Define Zionism for me. Then explain the similarities to the Nazi atrocities. "The simple fact is, Israel decided to annex and occupy land outside its own defined borders." No... no, just no. Israel did not "just decide" at all. As you are fully aware. Ask yourself why they did it, and stop being so intellectually dishonest/ a bad faith actor. "You say they have given back land," In an effort to have peace in the region. Something none of its neighbours are remotely interested in. "they were occupying land that was not theirs to occupy." So who's is it, then? And who gets to decide which land is "occupied" and which land isn't? "Perhaps they would generate less hatred for them among their neighbours if they hadn’t tried to annexe lands outside their own borders that were clearly defined in the creation of the State of Israel. 🤷🏻♂️" Another bad faith/ intellectually dishonest comment. You know full well it has nothing to do with Israel expanding their territory. As soon as Israel became a national state territory again (that's right, again) and opened it's borders to any and all displaced Jews, the surrounding Arab nations immediately ordered all the native Arab people out of Israel promptly followed by a declaration of war against them. And they have strived for nothing less than the ethnic cleasing of all the Jews and the obliteration of the state of Israel ever since. So just stop with the nonsense already. | |||
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"Israel is not killing Hamas members." Who told you this? "Israel is non-selectively killing everyone in Gaza. It is pointless now to say "Hamas wants this, Hamas says that". The brutal fact is that Israel has declared war on every person in Palestine." This is just so blatantly false. Who told you this?! "Israel is committed to conducting genocide upon Palestine, there is now no way back as every single Palestinian has been made to hate Israel for what it has done to their country." Oh please, not more of this drivel. Stop using words you clearly don't know the meaning of. Israel have a powerful military. If it were "conducting a genocide" then why has the Palestinian population grown from ~800K in 1948 to ~6 million today? Also, "their" country? Who's? There's no such thing as a Palestinian country, and there never has been. It's a colonial entity and, therefore, a colonised identity. Nothing more, nothing less. "Your entire life you have had to live in poverty inside a wall enclosing your country. Your infrastructure has been destroyed, you have no power, water, sewerage. You are under oppression from a country that allows settlers to steal your land, that kills you if you attempt to fight back in any way." Seems like my leaders aren't doing their jobs. Maybe I should migrate somewhere with better leaders who will actually look after me and protect my interests. Or maybe we should elect new/ different leaders. "Your homes, schools, hospitals are indiscriminately bombed by the oppressor because some of your freedom fighters _might_ be inside them" Wooooow, you're really going for the full "I stand with the terrorists" on this one, huh? Admirable honesty, I guess... "You negotiate ceasefires, and it is always the oppressor that breaks those ceasefires." Another lie. Since October 7th Hamas have received and rejected terms over, and over, and over... "Israel's actual actions - not just words - are a war of genocide against everybody in Palestine. For every Israeli killed during the current war, there have been 50 Palestinians killed, 49 of whom are completely innocent people. Don't dress this up as a war of righteous Israel against the evil forces of Hamas. This is the slaughter of a small undefended country by an overwhelming military force. Just say it for what it is." What a totally fucking cooked and deluded person you are. Holy shit I can't believe you actually typed this out and then posted it... Please, for the love of God seek help. No, I'm not being facetious. This kind of rhetoric and lack of education is a genuine cause for concern. | |||
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" Why would Hamas ever agree to any terms with Israel again? They don't, unless it suits their purpose. You seem to think that Hamas wants peace. They do not. Read their charter. They want war until Israel and Jews are obliterated. They even explain, in their charter, that they might make a temporary peace in order to later make war and annihilate or subjugate non Muslims. It's there in black and white. It's not a secret; the ONLY peace that they will tolerate is one where their interpretation of Islam rules over everyone. Don't confuse Hamas with Palestinians. Many if not most Palestinians would dearly love peace, to coexist in prosperity with a peaceful Israel. But Hamas does not, and Hamas is what Israel has to deal with in Gaza. Hamas is not a reaction to Israel's wars or oppression (which is not to say that Israel is always right), they are offended by its very existence, and the lack of strict Sunni Muslim dominance. Just look around the rest of the Middle East, at affiliated movements. Seriously, read their charter. Israel is not killing Hamas members. Israel is non-selectively killing everyone in Gaza. It is pointless now to say "Hamas wants this, Hamas says that". The brutal fact is that Israel has declared war on every person in Palestine. Even if there was no more Hamas, every single Gazan has had family and friends killed by Israel, has lost all of their possessions, has been victimised by Israel for their whole lives. I'm sure that many Palestinians want peace, but I am equally certain that every Palestinian knows that Israel will never allow them peace and prosperity. Israel is committed to conducting genocide upon Palestine, there is now no way back as every single Palestinian has been made to hate Israel for what it has done to their country. Put yourself in the shoes of a Palestinian. Your entire life you have had to live in poverty inside a wall enclosing your country. Your infrastructure has been destroyed, you have no power, water, sewerage. You are under oppression from a country that allows settlers to steal your land, that kills you if you attempt to fight back in any way. Your homes, schools, hospitals are indiscriminately bombed by the oppressor because some of your freedom fighters _might_ be inside them (without ever any need for proof being demonstrated). You are utterly desperate because every day you see more of your people being killed. You negotiate ceasefires, and it is always the oppressor that breaks those ceasefires. What would you do? The truth is it does not matter what the tiny forces of Hamas have ever stated as objectives, as Israel's actual actions - not just words - are a war of genocide against everybody in Palestine. For every Israeli killed during the current war, there have been 50 Palestinians killed, 49 of whom are completely innocent people. Don't dress this up as a war of righteous Israel against the evil forces of Hamas. This is the slaughter of a small undefended country by an overwhelming military force. Just say it for what it is." What is the correct response from Israel, in your opinion? | |||
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" Why would Hamas ever agree to any terms with Israel again? They don't, unless it suits their purpose. You seem to think that Hamas wants peace. They do not. Read their charter. They want war until Israel and Jews are obliterated. They even explain, in their charter, that they might make a temporary peace in order to later make war and annihilate or subjugate non Muslims. It's there in black and white. It's not a secret; the ONLY peace that they will tolerate is one where their interpretation of Islam rules over everyone. Don't confuse Hamas with Palestinians. Many if not most Palestinians would dearly love peace, to coexist in prosperity with a peaceful Israel. But Hamas does not, and Hamas is what Israel has to deal with in Gaza. Hamas is not a reaction to Israel's wars or oppression (which is not to say that Israel is always right), they are offended by its very existence, and the lack of strict Sunni Muslim dominance. Just look around the rest of the Middle East, at affiliated movements. Seriously, read their charter. Israel is not killing Hamas members. Israel is non-selectively killing everyone in Gaza. It is pointless now to say "Hamas wants this, Hamas says that". The brutal fact is that Israel has declared war on every person in Palestine. Even if there was no more Hamas, every single Gazan has had family and friends killed by Israel, has lost all of their possessions, has been victimised by Israel for their whole lives. I'm sure that many Palestinians want peace, but I am equally certain that every Palestinian knows that Israel will never allow them peace and prosperity. Israel is committed to conducting genocide upon Palestine, there is now no way back as every single Palestinian has been made to hate Israel for what it has done to their country. Put yourself in the shoes of a Palestinian. Your entire life you have had to live in poverty inside a wall enclosing your country. Your infrastructure has been destroyed, you have no power, water, sewerage. You are under oppression from a country that allows settlers to steal your land, that kills you if you attempt to fight back in any way. Your homes, schools, hospitals are indiscriminately bombed by the oppressor because some of your freedom fighters _might_ be inside them (without ever any need for proof being demonstrated). You are utterly desperate because every day you see more of your people being killed. You negotiate ceasefires, and it is always the oppressor that breaks those ceasefires. What would you do? The truth is it does not matter what the tiny forces of Hamas have ever stated as objectives, as Israel's actual actions - not just words - are a war of genocide against everybody in Palestine. For every Israeli killed during the current war, there have been 50 Palestinians killed, 49 of whom are completely innocent people. Don't dress this up as a war of righteous Israel against the evil forces of Hamas. This is the slaughter of a small undefended country by an overwhelming military force. Just say it for what it is. What is the correct response from Israel, in your opinion? " I don't have any idea of what a "correct response" could be now. The conflict seems to have gone beyond any possibility of resolution. There is no way that "the ordinary people" of Gaza could now ever return to normal lives and get past the destruction that has been rained upon them. They have all been drawn into the conflict. Compare with the situation of England and Northern Ireland. Hundreds of years of oppression, breaking into actual war for relatively short periods of time. Both sides doing bad things. But sufficient restraint that we never had the RAF dropping bombs from planes into Londonderry as reprisals against pub bombings in Birmingham. There were innocent lives lost on both sides, and guilty people on both sides. Peace has prevailed now though for 30 years or so because of hard work to allow it. Israel/Palestine is hundreds of times worse conflict. The current killing is more like the Cromwell invasion of Ireland in the 1600's than it is like the police actions of the 1970's. It took 400 years from Cromwell to the current peace between NI and England. How to solve Gaza? No idea. How to make Gaza worse? Keep the current actions of Israel going. | |||
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" 👆👍🏼 How about sending a peacekeeping force, like most are cheering for in Ukraine. Or do we have double standards?" Like UNIFIL in Lebanon? | |||
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"The simple fact is, Israel decided to annex and occupy land outside its own defined borders. No they did not. Israel has not annexed Gaza or The West Bank - you cannot technically annex what is already yours. The Golan Heights is a different matter and most Druze seem to want to be under Israeli governance anyway. So, let me explain... The two disputed territories lie within the boundaries of the British Mandate for Palestine. Britain was mandated (I.E. obliged by law) to create the Jewish homeland within the borders of Eretz Israel - and thus far, no law has ever replaced this. The lines that we consider the borders are not official state borders - they are still the demarcation lines set up after the 1948 war. Check the map, you will see dashed lines, not hard borders. The 1947 partition plan was not legally binding, the Jordanian annexation of the West Bank was not legally binding, and neither was Egypt's occupation of Gaza. This is why it is probably more accurate to define the regions as disputed rather than occupied.Well said but it's difficult to argue a point to those that choose to ignore historical facts but would rather base their opinons on what they've seen on social media. It's as if the Six Day War and Yom Kippur War never happened, Mrs x" A State of Israel was required to be put in place, as you say, and right from the off the Israelis were not happy with what was proposed. They have ever since, through wars with the people occupying land adjacent to them, proceeded to overturn those occupations. The two wars mentioned by Mrs N were those neighbours trying to get back land from which they were removed forcibly by Israel. If we take the borders as being not legally binding, as you have noted, then surely the jib cuts both ways, Israel has no legally binding claim to the land either. 🤷🏻♂️ | |||
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" A State of Israel was required to be put in place, as you say, and right from the off the Israelis were not happy with what was proposed. " Israel was unhappy because it was less than promised, but accepted it. Jordan, Egypt, Syria and others were also unhappy but, unlike Israel, did not accept it and attacked the new state of Israel with genocide or complete subjugation as the stated objective. After 1948, Jordan and Egypt annexed and occupied land (Gaza and the West Bank). They could have called this land the State of Palestine, but did not; they intended to keep that land. Your statement is revisionist nonsense. " They have ever since, through wars with the people occupying land adjacent to them, proceeded to overturn those occupations. " What does that mean? " The two wars mentioned by Mrs N were those neighbours trying to get back land from which they were removed forcibly by Israel. " No... They were designed to annihilate Israel. " If we take the borders as being not legally binding, as you have noted, then surely the jib cuts both ways, Israel has no legally binding claim to the land either. 🤷🏻♂️" The key issue is that the borders were never accepted. That creates an issue when trying to point to those borders as legally binding. That's why you hear terms like "armistice line". | |||
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"The simple fact is, Israel decided to annex and occupy land outside its own defined borders. No they did not. Israel has not annexed Gaza or The West Bank - you cannot technically annex what is already yours. The Golan Heights is a different matter and most Druze seem to want to be under Israeli governance anyway. So, let me explain... The two disputed territories lie within the boundaries of the British Mandate for Palestine. Britain was mandated (I.E. obliged by law) to create the Jewish homeland within the borders of Eretz Israel - and thus far, no law has ever replaced this. The lines that we consider the borders are not official state borders - they are still the demarcation lines set up after the 1948 war. Check the map, you will see dashed lines, not hard borders. The 1947 partition plan was not legally binding, the Jordanian annexation of the West Bank was not legally binding, and neither was Egypt's occupation of Gaza. This is why it is probably more accurate to define the regions as disputed rather than occupied.Well said but it's difficult to argue a point to those that choose to ignore historical facts but would rather base their opinons on what they've seen on social media. It's as if the Six Day War and Yom Kippur War never happened, Mrs x A State of Israel was required to be put in place, as you say, and right from the off the Israelis were not happy with what was proposed. They have ever since, through wars with the people occupying land adjacent to them, proceeded to overturn those occupations. The two wars mentioned by Mrs N were those neighbours trying to get back land from which they were removed forcibly by Israel. If we take the borders as being not legally binding, as you have noted, then surely the jib cuts both ways, Israel has no legally binding claim to the land either. 🤷🏻♂️" You really do have a limited understanding of the region and the history of it. Of the two wars I mentioned only the Yom Kippur War had anything to do with 'neighbours' trying to get back land forcibly removed by Israel. The land wasn't forcibly removed either. It was occupied as a result of the earlier 6 Day War. This War was the only war between the Arabs and Israel which saw Israel strike first. All the other wars were started by the Arab nations. This war was only started by Israel due to threats from Egypt and huge troop movements by them to there borders with Israel. This forced Israel to attack otherwise they'd have possibly been over run. This War was primarily about the Suez canal and Egypts denial to Israel of the use of it. You try to make out that Israel are 'unhappy' with the situation and are the aggressors but that just shows your ignorance of these matters. They have, apart from the one instance I have already mentioned were they were forced to act first due to very real threats, always been on the defensive, they have been attacked first. It's the Arabs that are unhappy with the situation and they wanted the eradication of the Jews and Israel, not the other way round. So don't ignore facts just for the sake of the story you would like to tell, you'll always get caught out and end up looking a bit silly. Mrs x | |||
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" A State of Israel was required to be put in place, as you say, and right from the off the Israelis were not happy with what was proposed. Israel was unhappy because it was less than promised, but accepted it. Jordan, Egypt, Syria and others were also unhappy but, unlike Israel, did not accept it and attacked the new state of Israel with genocide or complete subjugation as the stated objective. After 1948, Jordan and Egypt annexed and occupied land (Gaza and the West Bank). They could have called this land the State of Palestine, but did not; they intended to keep that land. Your statement is revisionist nonsense. They have ever since, through wars with the people occupying land adjacent to them, proceeded to overturn those occupations. What does that mean? The two wars mentioned by Mrs N were those neighbours trying to get back land from which they were removed forcibly by Israel. No... They were designed to annihilate Israel. If we take the borders as being not legally binding, as you have noted, then surely the jib cuts both ways, Israel has no legally binding claim to the land either. 🤷🏻♂️ The key issue is that the borders were never accepted. That creates an issue when trying to point to those borders as legally binding. That's why you hear terms like "armistice line"." Once again much better said than I could, a good, precise and most importantly factual description of the actual truth of the situation.. Mrs x | |||
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" A State of Israel was required to be put in place, as you say, and right from the off the Israelis were not happy with what was proposed. Israel was unhappy because it was less than promised, but accepted it. Jordan, Egypt, Syria and others were also unhappy but, unlike Israel, did not accept it and attacked the new state of Israel with genocide or complete subjugation as the stated objective. After 1948, Jordan and Egypt annexed and occupied land (Gaza and the West Bank). They could have called this land the State of Palestine, but did not; they intended to keep that land. Your statement is revisionist nonsense. They have ever since, through wars with the people occupying land adjacent to them, proceeded to overturn those occupations. What does that mean? The two wars mentioned by Mrs N were those neighbours trying to get back land from which they were removed forcibly by Israel. No... They were designed to annihilate Israel. If we take the borders as being not legally binding, as you have noted, then surely the jib cuts both ways, Israel has no legally binding claim to the land either. 🤷🏻♂️ The key issue is that the borders were never accepted. That creates an issue when trying to point to those borders as legally binding. That's why you hear terms like "armistice line".Once again much better said than I could, a good, precise and most importantly factual description of the actual truth of the situation.. Mrs x" Just to clarify something here - do you support the Zionist ideology? | |||
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" Just to clarify something here - do you support the Zionist ideology?" That shouldn't make a difference to a rational discussion, should it? Unless you're looking to make ad hominem argument? | |||
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" A State of Israel was required to be put in place, as you say, and right from the off the Israelis were not happy with what was proposed. Israel was unhappy because it was less than promised, but accepted it. Jordan, Egypt, Syria and others were also unhappy but, unlike Israel, did not accept it and attacked the new state of Israel with genocide or complete subjugation as the stated objective. After 1948, Jordan and Egypt annexed and occupied land (Gaza and the West Bank). They could have called this land the State of Palestine, but did not; they intended to keep that land. Your statement is revisionist nonsense. They have ever since, through wars with the people occupying land adjacent to them, proceeded to overturn those occupations. What does that mean? The two wars mentioned by Mrs N were those neighbours trying to get back land from which they were removed forcibly by Israel. No... They were designed to annihilate Israel. If we take the borders as being not legally binding, as you have noted, then surely the jib cuts both ways, Israel has no legally binding claim to the land either. 🤷🏻♂️ The key issue is that the borders were never accepted. That creates an issue when trying to point to those borders as legally binding. That's why you hear terms like "armistice line".Once again much better said than I could, a good, precise and most importantly factual description of the actual truth of the situation.. Mrs x Just to clarify something here - do you support the Zionist ideology?" I don't support it or not support it. As a call for a return to a homeland it doesn't call out to me. I'd be a bit of a hypocrit if I did support going back home, as I am a 'foreigner' in England with no desire to return to my place of birth. Does that answer it for you? Mrs x | |||
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" Just to clarify something here - do you support the Zionist ideology? That shouldn't make a difference to a rational discussion, should it? Unless you're looking to make ad hominem argument?" I'm just clarifying something. Why are we supporting in Israel, why, and why purpose anddoes it benefit us?. To me it looks like the 19th century mentality version, some sanitised version that uses euphoniums used to legitimise actions by the Zionists in israel | |||
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" A State of Israel was required to be put in place, as you say, and right from the off the Israelis were not happy with what was proposed. Israel was unhappy because it was less than promised, but accepted it. Jordan, Egypt, Syria and others were also unhappy but, unlike Israel, did not accept it and attacked the new state of Israel with genocide or complete subjugation as the stated objective. After 1948, Jordan and Egypt annexed and occupied land (Gaza and the West Bank). They could have called this land the State of Palestine, but did not; they intended to keep that land. Your statement is revisionist nonsense. They have ever since, through wars with the people occupying land adjacent to them, proceeded to overturn those occupations. What does that mean? The two wars mentioned by Mrs N were those neighbours trying to get back land from which they were removed forcibly by Israel. No... They were designed to annihilate Israel. If we take the borders as being not legally binding, as you have noted, then surely the jib cuts both ways, Israel has no legally binding claim to the land either. 🤷🏻♂️ The key issue is that the borders were never accepted. That creates an issue when trying to point to those borders as legally binding. That's why you hear terms like "armistice line".Once again much better said than I could, a good, precise and most importantly factual description of the actual truth of the situation.. Mrs x Just to clarify something here - do you support the Zionist ideology?I don't support it or not support it. As a call for a return to a homeland it doesn't call out to me. I'd be a bit of a hypocrit if I did support going back home, as I am a 'foreigner' in England with no desire to return to my place of birth. Does that answer it for you? Mrs x" Yup it does thanks | |||
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" Just to clarify something here - do you support the Zionist ideology? That shouldn't make a difference to a rational discussion, should it? Unless you're looking to make ad hominem argument? I'm just clarifying something. Why are we supporting in Israel, why, and why purpose anddoes it benefit us?. To me it looks like the 19th century mentality version, some sanitised version that uses euphoniums used to legitimise actions by the Zionists in israel " Let's say that Israel were cleared of all Zionists. What would they be doing now? How would things be different? | |||
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" Just to clarify something here - do you support the Zionist ideology? That shouldn't make a difference to a rational discussion, should it? Unless you're looking to make ad hominem argument? I'm just clarifying something. Why are we supporting in Israel, why, and why purpose anddoes it benefit us?. To me it looks like the 19th century mentality version, some sanitised version that uses euphoniums used to legitimise actions by the Zionists in israel " What are you trying to say, how you phrase stuff makes it quite difficult to read and understand, Mrscx | |||
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" Just to clarify something here - do you support the Zionist ideology? That shouldn't make a difference to a rational discussion, should it? Unless you're looking to make ad hominem argument? I'm just clarifying something. Why are we supporting in Israel, why, and why purpose anddoes it benefit us?. To me it looks like the 19th century mentality version, some sanitised version that uses euphoniums used to legitimise actions by the Zionists in israel " The corner you’ve backed yourself into denies the Jewish people the right to live in their ancestral homeland yet you assert that Palestinians do have that right. What’s the difference, in your view and why do you care? If your concern is the hostilities or the loss of life, that doesn’t remove anyone’s right to be there. So why is it that you claim Israel is in the wrong, yet support the exact same aspiration when it comes from Palestinians? | |||
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" Just to clarify something here - do you support the Zionist ideology? That shouldn't make a difference to a rational discussion, should it? Unless you're looking to make ad hominem argument? I'm just clarifying something. Why are we supporting in Israel, why, and why purpose anddoes it benefit us?. To me it looks like the 19th century mentality version, some sanitised version that uses euphoniums used to legitimise actions by the Zionists in israel The corner you’ve backed yourself into denies the Jewish people the right to live in their ancestral homeland yet you assert that Palestinians do have that right. What’s the difference, in your view and why do you care? If your concern is the hostilities or the loss of life, that doesn’t remove anyone’s right to be there. So why is it that you claim Israel is in the wrong, yet support the exact same aspiration when it comes from Palestinians? " Oh let me guess.... The first part is easy. It's a person who is normally your dad or mums sister, or a person married to your Uncle. The second part is more difficult. It can be broken down into two halves. The first half is how you'd describe a house that's attached to just one other house. So it's not a terrace or a detached house, it's a .... detached house. The second part is four letters and rhymes with prism. So put them together and you have it. It's Auntie Semi Tism, simple. Mrs x | |||
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" Just to clarify something here - do you support the Zionist ideology? That shouldn't make a difference to a rational discussion, should it? Unless you're looking to make ad hominem argument? I'm just clarifying something. Why are we supporting in Israel, why, and why purpose anddoes it benefit us?. To me it looks like the 19th century mentality version, some sanitised version that uses euphoniums used to legitimise actions by the Zionists in israel The corner you’ve backed yourself into denies the Jewish people the right to live in their ancestral homeland yet you assert that Palestinians do have that right. What’s the difference, in your view and why do you care? If your concern is the hostilities or the loss of life, that doesn’t remove anyone’s right to be there. So why is it that you claim Israel is in the wrong, yet support the exact same aspiration when it comes from Palestinians? " The other big thing is supporting Palestinian rights over Israeli rights is not the same. There's never been a country called Palestine, there has been a country called Israel Palestinians are a group that's lived in the area but have not held dominion over anywhere. It's like the English being evicted from the land, returning later on to reclaim there homeland only to find Geordies, Scouser, Mancunians, Hockney or Brummies claiming the country as theirs. Palestine has never been a country, ever, Mrs x | |||
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" Just to clarify something here - do you support the Zionist ideology? That shouldn't make a difference to a rational discussion, should it? Unless you're looking to make ad hominem argument? I'm just clarifying something. Why are we supporting in Israel, why, and why purpose anddoes it benefit us?. To me it looks like the 19th century mentality version, some sanitised version that uses euphoniums used to legitimise actions by the Zionists in israel What are you trying to say, how you phrase stuff makes it quite difficult to read and understand, Mrscx" Well that's not difficult with some posters now is it! on - admit it | |||
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"Cockneys not Hockney obviously haha, Mrs x " One would be much more picturesque than the other.. | |||
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"Cockneys not Hockney obviously haha, Mrs x One would be much more picturesque than the other.." That's true but I'll leave it to you to tell them they aren't 'picturesque' haha, Mrs x | |||
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"Cockneys not Hockney obviously haha, Mrs x One would be much more picturesque than the other..That's true but I'll leave it to you to tell them they aren't 'picturesque' haha, Mrs x" Be a Glenn Hoddle..  | |||
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" It's like the English being evicted from the land, returning later on to reclaim there homeland only to find Geordies, Scouser, Mancunians, Hockney or Brummies claiming the country as theirs. Palestine has never been a country, ever, Mrs x" Erm nope. A better analogy is - English Catholics left from England , Some stayed as a minority group amongst the Protestants About a thousand years later, Catholics from anywhere in the world decide to create a homeland called "cathocicia"and call the ideology "ziocaths" Although not having any ancestral or ethnic claim to England, the "ziocaths" (Catholics from Africa, China) and obviously ethnically not from England end up with what's deemed as a superior claim to ethnically local protestants, who are forced off fheir land to make way for foreigners who happen to be Catholic. | |||
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" It's like the English being evicted from the land, returning later on to reclaim there homeland only to find Geordies, Scouser, Mancunians, Hockney or Brummies claiming the country as theirs. Palestine has never been a country, ever, Mrs x Erm nope. A better analogy is - English Catholics left from England , Some stayed as a minority group amongst the Protestants About a thousand years later, Catholics from anywhere in the world decide to create a homeland called "cathocicia"and call the ideology "ziocaths" Although not having any ancestral or ethnic claim to England, the "ziocaths" (Catholics from Africa, China) and obviously ethnically not from England end up with what's deemed as a superior claim to ethnically local protestants, who are forced off fheir land to make way for foreigners who happen to be Catholic. " It's not a better analogy at all. The Jews had a country named after them, Catholics didn't... simple, read a bit of history before making up daft analogies, Mrs x | |||
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" It's like the English being evicted from the land, returning later on to reclaim there homeland only to find Geordies, Scouser, Mancunians, Hockney or Brummies claiming the country as theirs. Palestine has never been a country, ever, Mrs x Erm nope. A better analogy is - English Catholics left from England , Some stayed as a minority group amongst the Protestants About a thousand years later, Catholics from anywhere in the world decide to create a homeland called "cathocicia"and call the ideology "ziocaths" Although not having any ancestral or ethnic claim to England, the "ziocaths" (Catholics from Africa, China) and obviously ethnically not from England end up with what's deemed as a superior claim to ethnically local protestants, who are forced off fheir land to make way for foreigners who happen to be Catholic. It's not a better analogy at all. The Jews had a country named after them, Catholics didn't... simple, read a bit of history before making up daft analogies, Mrs x" Haha look who's talking! | |||
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"Palestinians are not indigenous to the area as well, we could discuss that but I'm sure it would blow your mind because you talk as if they are without knowing the truth, Mrs x" Hit me with the truth bomb then because unlike some other poster's I'd love to hear it! Btw don't forget to mention why netenyahu and others changed his name to sound more like he was from the region | |||
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"Palestinians are not indigenous to the area as well, we could discuss that but I'm sure it would blow your mind because you talk as if they are without knowing the truth, Mrs x" Oh and .... Israeli settlers are mostly from Europe and their ancestors have never stepped foot in the Middle East. Why do they get allowed into Israel? | |||
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"Palestinians are not indigenous to the area as well, we could discuss that but I'm sure it would blow your mind because you talk as if they are without knowing the truth, Mrs x Oh and .... Israeli settlers are mostly from Europe and their ancestors have never stepped foot in the Middle East. Why do they get allowed into Israel? " Because Israel offers safety for them from anti-semitic racists? | |||
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"Palestinians are not indigenous to the area as well, we could discuss that but I'm sure it would blow your mind because you talk as if they are without knowing the truth, Mrs x Oh and .... Israeli settlers are mostly from Europe and their ancestors have never stepped foot in the Middle East. Why do they get allowed into Israel? Because Israel offers safety for them from anti-semitic racists?" That's great but what about the people who aren't Jewish there? The ones in the way? | |||
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"Palestinians are not indigenous to the area as well, we could discuss that but I'm sure it would blow your mind because you talk as if they are without knowing the truth, Mrs x Oh and .... Israeli settlers are mostly from Europe and their ancestors have never stepped foot in the Middle East. Why do they get allowed into Israel? Because Israel offers safety for them from anti-semitic racists? That's great but what about the people who aren't Jewish there? The ones in the way?" They choose to be there. They have the option to leave if they don't want to be there. Israel is still the only democracy in the Middle East. | |||
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"Palestinians are not indigenous to the area as well, we could discuss that but I'm sure it would blow your mind because you talk as if they are without knowing the truth, Mrs x Oh and .... Israeli settlers are mostly from Europe and their ancestors have never stepped foot in the Middle East. Why do they get allowed into Israel? " You ignoring ingredients the fact that Palestinians are not the indigenous people of the area then? Not even going to mention that are you, so why do they get to be in Israel then? Haha... Mrs x | |||
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"Palestinians are not indigenous to the area as well, we could discuss that but I'm sure it would blow your mind because you talk as if they are without knowing the truth, Mrs x Oh and .... Israeli settlers are mostly from Europe and their ancestors have never stepped foot in the Middle East. Why do they get allowed into Israel? You ignoring ingredients the fact that Palestinians are not the indigenous people of the area then? Not even going to mention that are you, so why do they get to be in Israel then? Haha... Mrs x" Well if that's the case why are Zionists more entitled and allowed to practice their ideology there when lots of immigrants have no historical claim to be in Israel? Arabs and jeews from the region were existing together there before the Zionist ideologists showed up there ! And allowing anyone into the country purely on religious grounds of judaism. Lots of Christians have been killed, starved in Gaza too btw. What did they do wrong?! The Zionists decreed that any Muslims who fled the fighting at the start of the conflict had sided with the Muslims and therefor not allowed back to their homes, ignoring the fact they simply fled in fear of being killed in the crossfire. Those Arabs who didn't have the means to flee were allowed to stay by the Zionists | |||
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"Palestinians are not indigenous to the area as well, we could discuss that but I'm sure it would blow your mind because you talk as if they are without knowing the truth, Mrs x" I hope your going to sit in a high backed leather chair like they did in Jackenory with your big woolly cardy on .. Go on tell us a story line when they opened tutenkamoons tomb he had a parchment in his hand - a receipt for the purchase of land for the Israelites .. come on tell us a story | |||
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"Palestinians are not indigenous to the area as well, we could discuss that but I'm sure it would blow your mind because you talk as if they are without knowing the truth, Mrs x Oh and .... Israeli settlers are mostly from Europe and their ancestors have never stepped foot in the Middle East. Why do they get allowed into Israel? You ignoring ingredients the fact that Palestinians are not the indigenous people of the area then? Not even going to mention that are you, so why do they get to be in Israel then? Haha... Mrs x Well if that's the case why are Zionists more entitled and allowed to practice their ideology there when lots of immigrants have no historical claim to be in Israel? Arabs and jeews from the region were existing together there before the Zionist ideologists showed up there ! And allowing anyone into the country purely on religious grounds of judaism. Lots of Christians have been killed, starved in Gaza too btw. What did they do wrong?! The Zionists decreed that any Muslims who fled the fighting at the start of the conflict had sided with the Muslims and therefor not allowed back to their homes, ignoring the fact they simply fled in fear of being killed in the crossfire. Those Arabs who didn't have the means to flee were allowed to stay by the Zionists " Not true. Did you know more Jews were expelled from Arab nations after 1948 then the number of Palestinians that fled Israel. That's a fact you seem to ignore... Mrs x | |||
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"Palestinians are not indigenous to the area as well, we could discuss that but I'm sure it would blow your mind because you talk as if they are without knowing the truth, Mrs x Oh and .... Israeli settlers are mostly from Europe and their ancestors have never stepped foot in the Middle East. Why do they get allowed into Israel? Because Israel offers safety for them from anti-semitic racists? That's great but what about the people who aren't Jewish there? The ones in the way?" In the way of what? Mrs x | |||
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"Palestinians are not indigenous to the area as well, we could discuss that but I'm sure it would blow your mind because you talk as if they are without knowing the truth, Mrs x Oh and .... Israeli settlers are mostly from Europe and their ancestors have never stepped foot in the Middle East. Why do they get allowed into Israel? Because Israel offers safety for them from anti-semitic racists? That's great but what about the people who aren't Jewish there? The ones in the way? They choose to be there. They have the option to leave if they don't want to be there. Israel is still the only democracy in the Middle East. " Well sort of a democracy. If it were a true democracy then If the Muslims voted in a majority - a Muslim government, then it wouldn't be a Jewish state anymore would it! | |||
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"Palestinians are not indigenous to the area as well, we could discuss that but I'm sure it would blow your mind because you talk as if they are without knowing the truth, Mrs x Oh and .... Israeli settlers are mostly from Europe and their ancestors have never stepped foot in the Middle East. Why do they get allowed into Israel? Because Israel offers safety for them from anti-semitic racists? That's great but what about the people who aren't Jewish there? The ones in the way? They choose to be there. They have the option to leave if they don't want to be there. Israel is still the only democracy in the Middle East. Well sort of a democracy. If it were a true democracy then If the Muslims voted in a majority - a Muslim government, then it wouldn't be a Jewish state anymore would it!" And your point is? Mrs x | |||
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" If the Muslims voted in a majority - a Muslim government, then it wouldn't be a Jewish state anymore would it!" Realistically, what would happen to the Jews there, and would you be okay with that outcome? | |||
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"Israeli settlers are mostly from Europe and their ancestors have never stepped foot in the Middle East. Why do they get allowed into Israel? " Firstly, all European Jews have DNA that links them to the Levant - the only Jews who do not have this DNA are the Ethiopian Beta Israel tribe. You know the correct name for the West Bank? It's Judea and Samaria. You know where the name Jew comes from? Do you really think that Jews shouldn't be allowed in the actual region where their ethnicity and culture formed? It's like saying Greeks can't live in Greece. | |||
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"Palestinians are not indigenous to the area as well, we could discuss that but I'm sure it would blow your mind because you talk as if they are without knowing the truth, Mrs x Oh and .... Israeli settlers are mostly from Europe and their ancestors have never stepped foot in the Middle East. Why do they get allowed into Israel? Because Israel offers safety for them from anti-semitic racists? That's great but what about the people who aren't Jewish there? The ones in the way? They choose to be there. They have the option to leave if they don't want to be there. Israel is still the only democracy in the Middle East. Well sort of a democracy. If it were a true democracy then If the Muslims voted in a majority - a Muslim government, then it wouldn't be a Jewish state anymore would it!And your point is? Mrs x" My point is the vote is rigged to prevent a Muslim take over. | |||
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"Palestinians are not indigenous to the area as well, we could discuss that but I'm sure it would blow your mind because you talk as if they are without knowing the truth, Mrs x Oh and .... Israeli settlers are mostly from Europe and their ancestors have never stepped foot in the Middle East. Why do they get allowed into Israel? Because Israel offers safety for them from anti-semitic racists? That's great but what about the people who aren't Jewish there? The ones in the way? They choose to be there. They have the option to leave if they don't want to be there. Israel is still the only democracy in the Middle East. Well sort of a democracy. If it were a true democracy then If the Muslims voted in a majority - a Muslim government, then it wouldn't be a Jewish state anymore would it!And your point is? Mrs x My point is the vote is rigged to prevent a Muslim take over. " That seems a smart move. Allowing those sworn to killing you to have political sway over you in your own country wouldn't be a particularly good situation. I'll bet that there are many in the West who wish their governments would protect them as assiduously. | |||
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"Palestinians are not indigenous to the area as well, we could discuss that but I'm sure it would blow your mind because you talk as if they are without knowing the truth, Mrs x Oh and .... Israeli settlers are mostly from Europe and their ancestors have never stepped foot in the Middle East. Why do they get allowed into Israel? Because Israel offers safety for them from anti-semitic racists? That's great but what about the people who aren't Jewish there? The ones in the way? They choose to be there. They have the option to leave if they don't want to be there. Israel is still the only democracy in the Middle East. Well sort of a democracy. If it were a true democracy then If the Muslims voted in a majority - a Muslim government, then it wouldn't be a Jewish state anymore would it!And your point is? Mrs x My point is the vote is rigged to prevent a Muslim take over. " And how does they do that then? In a country with a Muslim minority how are they going to gain control. Come on explain that if you can... Mrs x | |||
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"Palestinians are not indigenous to the area as well, we could discuss that but I'm sure it would blow your mind because you talk as if they are without knowing the truth, Mrs x Oh and .... Israeli settlers are mostly from Europe and their ancestors have never stepped foot in the Middle East. Why do they get allowed into Israel? Because Israel offers safety for them from anti-semitic racists? That's great but what about the people who aren't Jewish there? The ones in the way? They choose to be there. They have the option to leave if they don't want to be there. Israel is still the only democracy in the Middle East. Well sort of a democracy. If it were a true democracy then If the Muslims voted in a majority - a Muslim government, then it wouldn't be a Jewish state anymore would it!And your point is? Mrs x My point is the vote is rigged to prevent a Muslim take over. That seems a smart move. Allowing those sworn to killing you to have political sway over you in your own country wouldn't be a particularly good situation. I'll bet that there are many in the West who wish their governments would protect them as assiduously." Poland doesn't allow Muslim migrants into their country. And they say they have no problems Islamic terrorism. Both sure it's the right thing to do but you cannot argue with those results if they are correct.. Mrs x | |||
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