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"People do seem a lot more miserable at the moment. I remember posters on here pre-election saying they were voting Labour because they thought they couldn't possibly worse than the Tories. It seems they were wrong. So many of those posters have disappeared from this forum, or more likely, changed their username." how were they wrong? Labour are tackling problems unlike the last lot. some of those problems they have been relatively successful and other not so much or too early. | |||
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"Yes I for one was hoping for a better future but am getting more disappointed by the day. There's almost no difference between Tories and labour! Maybe it's time for a radical change?" Plenty of differences and positive steps so far | |||
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"I don’t understand why people need to try and bring doom and despair. Do we have issues? Yes. Clearly we do. Do we have the basis of an economy and a governance structure that can be turned around. 100% we do. Is the future going to be easy? Unlikely. Are we “completely fucked”? No. Not by a long shot."  | |||
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"Early days" “Early days” lol. When do these “early days” end? Labour voters in 2029 when they get kicked out: “They had such great ideas, they just didn’t get the chance to implement them. True communism has never been tried. It was still early days”. | |||
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"Certainly the UK needs a 'wake-up' call along the lines of Thatcherism in the 80's. Something that challenges all the bonkers stuff we have sleepwalked into. Like 9.5 mil. citizens dependant on state welfare benefits, like gormlessly watching our borders violated every day of the week, like tolerance of almost all petty crime. The question is, who has the balls to do it?" The trouble with a re-run of Thatcherism is that the unions she fought are a shadow of the force they were and there are no public utilities to flog off apart from the NHS. | |||
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"Certainly the UK needs a 'wake-up' call along the lines of Thatcherism in the 80's. Something that challenges all the bonkers stuff we have sleepwalked into. Like 9.5 mil. citizens dependant on state welfare benefits, like gormlessly watching our borders violated every day of the week, like tolerance of almost all petty crime. The question is, who has the balls to do it?" We have left the EU and have opportunities to change so many things that haven't worked well, but zero appetite to change anything that would work in our favour. | |||
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"Certainly the UK needs a 'wake-up' call along the lines of Thatcherism in the 80's. Something that challenges all the bonkers stuff we have sleepwalked into. Like 9.5 mil. citizens dependant on state welfare benefits, like gormlessly watching our borders violated every day of the week, like tolerance of almost all petty crime. The question is, who has the balls to do it? We have left the EU and have opportunities to change so many things that haven't worked well, but zero appetite to change anything that would work in our favour. " If all those opportunities you mention (but fail to actually list what they are and how those same unlisted opportunities would be implemented) were so good, do you not think that they would be implemented? The department for finding Brexit benefits was setup to find them (after Brexit). That same department asked the general public for suggestions but didn't seem to get anything that was actually feasible or could be implemented. Do you honestly think that making a decision to leave the EU then asking for ideas from anyone and everyone to take advantage of having left showed a sensible approach to going it alone? The UK's biggest trading partner was and still is it's nearest neighbour yet many in the UK should still prefer to trade with the US or further afield. Absolutely crazy. Brussels forcing the UK to adopt European rules (what rules and wasn't the UK involved in making those same rules?). Now the UK is neither part of the EU or confident that the US is actually even a friendly nation, far less having that special relationship. The UK will look to Europe as it has little choice and it will be good for both parties especially with what appears to be happening across the Atlantic. People in the UK will continue to bury their heads in the sand. The EU haters will hate the EU but become less vocal as they see their arguments diminishing. Life goes on. | |||
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"Certainly the UK needs a 'wake-up' call along the lines of Thatcherism in the 80's. Something that challenges all the bonkers stuff we have sleepwalked into. Like 9.5 mil. citizens dependant on state welfare benefits, like gormlessly watching our borders violated every day of the week, like tolerance of almost all petty crime. The question is, who has the balls to do it? We have left the EU and have opportunities to change so many things that haven't worked well, but zero appetite to change anything that would work in our favour. If all those opportunities you mention (but fail to actually list what they are and how those same unlisted opportunities would be implemented) were so good, do you not think that they would be implemented? The department for finding Brexit benefits was setup to find them (after Brexit). That same department asked the general public for suggestions but didn't seem to get anything that was actually feasible or could be implemented. Do you honestly think that making a decision to leave the EU then asking for ideas from anyone and everyone to take advantage of having left showed a sensible approach to going it alone? The UK's biggest trading partner was and still is it's nearest neighbour yet many in the UK should still prefer to trade with the US or further afield. Absolutely crazy. Brussels forcing the UK to adopt European rules (what rules and wasn't the UK involved in making those same rules?). Now the UK is neither part of the EU or confident that the US is actually even a friendly nation, far less having that special relationship. The UK will look to Europe as it has little choice and it will be good for both parties especially with what appears to be happening across the Atlantic. People in the UK will continue to bury their heads in the sand. The EU haters will hate the EU but become less vocal as they see their arguments diminishing. Life goes on." You’re writing a lot of words trying to convince yourself that Brexit can’t work rather than engaging with what we can do with it. The fact that a government department struggled to identify "benefits" doesn’t mean there aren’t any, it means we had leadership with no vision and no political will to implement real change. There are "opportunities" which is the word I used, you simply need to think about things in a different way... | |||
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"It's what the Tories planned from day 1. Keep the people divided and under control via financial restrictions, offer the occasional small glimmer of hope then blame someone else when it fails. Divide and conquer. Thatchers Britan!" From day 1? | |||
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"Certainly the UK needs a 'wake-up' call along the lines of Thatcherism in the 80's. Something that challenges all the bonkers stuff we have sleepwalked into. Like 9.5 mil. citizens dependant on state welfare benefits, like gormlessly watching our borders violated every day of the week, like tolerance of almost all petty crime. The question is, who has the balls to do it? We have left the EU and have opportunities to change so many things that haven't worked well, but zero appetite to change anything that would work in our favour. " please give the definative list of those achievable opportunities. | |||
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"Don't want to start another Brexit argument but the fact is that GDP is 2.5 less post Brexit ..." If you don't want to start an argument, you really shouldn't go around quoting "facts" that are actually just educated guesses. That 2.5% drop might be accurate, and it might not. There's no empirical way of measuring it, so it really isn't a "fact". | |||
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"Certainly the UK needs a 'wake-up' call along the lines of Thatcherism in the 80's. Something that challenges all the bonkers stuff we have sleepwalked into. Like 9.5 mil. citizens dependant on state welfare benefits, like gormlessly watching our borders violated every day of the week, like tolerance of almost all petty crime. The question is, who has the balls to do it? We have left the EU and have opportunities to change so many things that haven't worked well, but zero appetite to change anything that would work in our favour. please give the definative list of those achievable opportunities." How about you have a think, it is not that hard to come up with a couple of things that could bring us positive change if you put your mind to it. | |||
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"Don't want to start another Brexit argument but the fact is that GDP is 2.5 less post Brexit ... If you don't want to start an argument, you really shouldn't go around quoting "facts" that are actually just educated guesses. That 2.5% drop might be accurate, and it might not. There's no empirical way of measuring it, so it really isn't a "fact"." Not an educated guess it's from the ONS. What else have I got to go on? | |||
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"Well I hope things get better but don't see things improving in the near future. Don't want to start another Brexit argument but the fact is that GDP is 2.5 less post Brexit and bloomberg has predicted that it will be 4% less by 2035. Yes Richard tice called bloomberg a bunch of bitter remomers (despite it being a US company based in manhatten) " Economically after leaving a trade bloc, you would expect impact in the short to mid term. In my opinion we are walking in the shadow of the EU without knowing what to do next. | |||
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"Certainly the UK needs a 'wake-up' call along the lines of Thatcherism in the 80's. Something that challenges all the bonkers stuff we have sleepwalked into. Like 9.5 mil. citizens dependant on state welfare benefits, like gormlessly watching our borders violated every day of the week, like tolerance of almost all petty crime. The question is, who has the balls to do it? We have left the EU and have opportunities to change so many things that haven't worked well, but zero appetite to change anything that would work in our favour. please give the definative list of those achievable opportunities. How about you have a think, it is not that hard to come up with a couple of things that could bring us positive change if you put your mind to it. " so 9 years on and you still have nothing .... aside from you european derangement syndrome .... how very sad for you | |||
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"Certainly the UK needs a 'wake-up' call along the lines of Thatcherism in the 80's. Something that challenges all the bonkers stuff we have sleepwalked into. Like 9.5 mil. citizens dependant on state welfare benefits, like gormlessly watching our borders violated every day of the week, like tolerance of almost all petty crime. The question is, who has the balls to do it? We have left the EU and have opportunities to change so many things that haven't worked well, but zero appetite to change anything that would work in our favour. please give the definative list of those achievable opportunities. How about you have a think, it is not that hard to come up with a couple of things that could bring us positive change if you put your mind to it. so 9 years on and you still have nothing .... aside from you european derangement syndrome .... how very sad for you" I voted to remain, the difference you are seeing in my approach, is I have accepted the result and don't get bogged down in something I can no longer influence. I'm sure you can think of something, if you really try | |||
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" I'm sure you can think of something, if you really try "you perpetually profess to know all regarding europe.... it's for you the oracle of brexit positives to explain your delusions of the benefits of leaving when asked or to shut up and stop spouting garbage. | |||
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"Don't want to start another Brexit argument but the fact is that GDP is 2.5 less post Brexit ..." "If you don't want to start an argument, you really shouldn't go around quoting "facts" that are actually just educated guesses. That 2.5% drop might be accurate, and it might not. There's no empirical way of measuring it, so it really isn't a "fact"." "Not an educated guess it's from the ONS." It is from the ONS, but it's still just their best guess at how the UK would have performed if it hadn't left the EU, measured against how it actually has performed. "What else have I got to go on?" If you want to have an opinion on Brexit, the ONS figure is a good place to start your thinking. But it isn't a "fact". | |||
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"Huge unmanageable immigration Economy up the creek Law courts under huge strain Policing up shit creek Energy shafted NHS going tits up Tax system screeed up More borrowing from the govt. " No give Labour time and it can still get much worse. Not fucked as yet but we are getting there. | |||
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" I'm sure you can think of something, if you really try
you perpetually profess to know all regarding europe.... it's for you the oracle of brexit positives to explain your delusions of the benefits of leaving when asked or to shut up and stop spouting garbage."Oh silly me! Now you you have put it like that I will get right on it.....   | |||
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"The sunny uplands where the benefits of the oven ready deal are there.. Over there, just around this next corner.. If when we get round the next corner and the benefits haven't materialised it's covids fault.. Or Putin's.. Or trumps tariffs.. Etc.. Etc.. "You are right and what you said above is the reason we are not moving forward. | |||
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"The sunny uplands where the benefits of the oven ready deal are there.. Over there, just around this next corner.. If when we get round the next corner and the benefits haven't materialised it's covids fault.. Or Putin's.. Or trumps tariffs.. Etc.. Etc..
You are right and what you said above is the reason we are not moving forward.
"Or is it that the actual hit to GDP needs more than blind optimism to be rectified then at some point hopefully the benefits of us leaving will started to appear..? Not sure the power of positive thinking has any actual effects in such weighty matters, that's not to downplay them on an individual level of course.. | |||
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"Certainly the UK needs a 'wake-up' call along the lines of Thatcherism in the 80's. Something that challenges all the bonkers stuff we have sleepwalked into. Like 9.5 mil. citizens dependant on state welfare benefits, like gormlessly watching our borders violated every day of the week, like tolerance of almost all petty crime. The question is, who has the balls to do it? We have left the EU and have opportunities to change so many things that haven't worked well, but zero appetite to change anything that would work in our favour. please give the definative list of those achievable opportunities. How about you have a think, it is not that hard to come up with a couple of things that could bring us positive change if you put your mind to it. " You are right. The UK 'could' benefit in the long term from brexit (20-30 years at the earliest to see tangible results), if it turned into 1940-50s Japan say and closed itself off almost entirely from the world. It's just not the same animal though and doesn’t have the same landscape to do that. | |||
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"Certainly the UK needs a 'wake-up' call along the lines of Thatcherism in the 80's. Something that challenges all the bonkers stuff we have sleepwalked into. Like 9.5 mil. citizens dependant on state welfare benefits, like gormlessly watching our borders violated every day of the week, like tolerance of almost all petty crime. The question is, who has the balls to do it? We have left the EU and have opportunities to change so many things that haven't worked well, but zero appetite to change anything that would work in our favour. please give the definative list of those achievable opportunities. How about you have a think, it is not that hard to come up with a couple of things that could bring us positive change if you put your mind to it. You are right. The UK 'could' benefit in the long term from brexit (20-30 years at the earliest to see tangible results), if it turned into 1940-50s Japan say and closed itself off almost entirely from the world. It's just not the same animal though and doesn’t have the same landscape to do that. " I didn't say benefits, I said opportunities, discover the opportunities we now have.... After all this time people are still hanging on to the same rhetoric and fighting the same arguments, typical British psyche. We should be rethinking our tax and trade policies to better support UK based industries, but nothing is moving in that area and it is easy to begin. Free trade zones in more areas of the country that support exports through tax breaks on imported parts for manufacturing until exported again, and create incentives for domestic manufacturing production... Work sector specific EU free movement, creating woke visa exemptions for areas we have shortages in, it is in our power to this. A bilateral free movement agreement with individual European countries, creating common travel areas. Tricky one with the EU and Brexit hardliners but should be worked on. There are so many opportunities, and I feel we are not talking about them or doing anything to stimulate them at a government level. | |||
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"Certainly the UK needs a 'wake-up' call along the lines of Thatcherism in the 80's. Something that challenges all the bonkers stuff we have sleepwalked into. Like 9.5 mil. citizens dependant on state welfare benefits, like gormlessly watching our borders violated every day of the week, like tolerance of almost all petty crime. The question is, who has the balls to do it? We have left the EU and have opportunities to change so many things that haven't worked well, but zero appetite to change anything that would work in our favour. please give the definative list of those achievable opportunities. How about you have a think, it is not that hard to come up with a couple of things that could bring us positive change if you put your mind to it. You are right. The UK 'could' benefit in the long term from brexit (20-30 years at the earliest to see tangible results), if it turned into 1940-50s Japan say and closed itself off almost entirely from the world. It's just not the same animal though and doesn’t have the same landscape to do that. I didn't say benefits, I said opportunities, discover the opportunities we now have.... After all this time people are still hanging on to the same rhetoric and fighting the same arguments, typical British psyche. We should be rethinking our tax and trade policies to better support UK based industries, but nothing is moving in that area and it is easy to begin. Free trade zones in more areas of the country that support exports through tax breaks on imported parts for manufacturing until exported again, and create incentives for domestic manufacturing production... Work sector specific EU free movement, creating woke visa exemptions for areas we have shortages in, it is in our power to this. A bilateral free movement agreement with individual European countries, creating common travel areas. Tricky one with the EU and Brexit hardliners but should be worked on. There are so many opportunities, and I feel we are not talking about them or doing anything to stimulate them at a government level. " we had all of that and more prior to the brextremists tearing it all up | |||
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"Work sector specific EU free movement, creating woke visa exemption ..." I'm fairly sure you meant "work visa" there. | |||
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"Work sector specific EU free movement, creating woke visa exemptions for areas we have shortages in, it is in our power to this. A bilateral free movement agreement with individual European countries, creating common travel areas. Tricky one with the EU and Brexit hardliners but should be worked on." "we had all of that and more prior to the brextremists tearing it all up" We did? We had the ability to allow free movement from some EU nations, whilst not allowing it from others? We had the ability to make EU nationals apply for work visas? Maybe you're thinking of a different EU. | |||
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"Certainly the UK needs a 'wake-up' call along the lines of Thatcherism in the 80's. Something that challenges all the bonkers stuff we have sleepwalked into. Like 9.5 mil. citizens dependant on state welfare benefits, like gormlessly watching our borders violated every day of the week, like tolerance of almost all petty crime. The question is, who has the balls to do it? We have left the EU and have opportunities to change so many things that haven't worked well, but zero appetite to change anything that would work in our favour. please give the definative list of those achievable opportunities. How about you have a think, it is not that hard to come up with a couple of things that could bring us positive change if you put your mind to it. You are right. The UK 'could' benefit in the long term from brexit (20-30 years at the earliest to see tangible results), if it turned into 1940-50s Japan say and closed itself off almost entirely from the world. It's just not the same animal though and doesn’t have the same landscape to do that. I didn't say benefits, I said opportunities, discover the opportunities we now have.... After all this time people are still hanging on to the same rhetoric and fighting the same arguments, typical British psyche. We should be rethinking our tax and trade policies to better support UK based industries, but nothing is moving in that area and it is easy to begin. Free trade zones in more areas of the country that support exports through tax breaks on imported parts for manufacturing until exported again, and create incentives for domestic manufacturing production... Work sector specific EU free movement, creating woke visa exemptions for areas we have shortages in, it is in our power to this. A bilateral free movement agreement with individual European countries, creating common travel areas. Tricky one with the EU and Brexit hardliners but should be worked on. There are so many opportunities, and I feel we are not talking about them or doing anything to stimulate them at a government level. " Presumably free trade zones are the free ports launched a couple of years ago. Not checked recently but seem to be going well when I did, to the point that those that originally refused (SNP) changed their minds. As I understand it, although there are free ports in Europe, they have much tighter restrictions than the ones currently in the UK and would not be allowed previously. Trade deals done now can be more tailored to UK needs and have a much greater emphasis on services than they did in the past. Apparently the UK now has more trade agreements than when in the EU. Even SKS was complimentary about the UK joining the Pacific trade group when it finally came into force a couple of months ago, despite his criticism when in opposition. I'm not sure how keen labour will be on non EU things given recent comments but good to see the talks with India are resuming. | |||
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"Work sector specific EU free movement, creating woke visa exemption ... I'm fairly sure you meant "work visa" there." I did  | |||
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"Certainly the UK needs a 'wake-up' call along the lines of Thatcherism in the 80's. Something that challenges all the bonkers stuff we have sleepwalked into. Like 9.5 mil. citizens dependant on state welfare benefits, like gormlessly watching our borders violated every day of the week, like tolerance of almost all petty crime. The question is, who has the balls to do it? We have left the EU and have opportunities to change so many things that haven't worked well, but zero appetite to change anything that would work in our favour. please give the definative list of those achievable opportunities. How about you have a think, it is not that hard to come up with a couple of things that could bring us positive change if you put your mind to it. You are right. The UK 'could' benefit in the long term from brexit (20-30 years at the earliest to see tangible results), if it turned into 1940-50s Japan say and closed itself off almost entirely from the world. It's just not the same animal though and doesn’t have the same landscape to do that. I didn't say benefits, I said opportunities, discover the opportunities we now have.... After all this time people are still hanging on to the same rhetoric and fighting the same arguments, typical British psyche. We should be rethinking our tax and trade policies to better support UK based industries, but nothing is moving in that area and it is easy to begin. Free trade zones in more areas of the country that support exports through tax breaks on imported parts for manufacturing until exported again, and create incentives for domestic manufacturing production... Work sector specific EU free movement, creating woke visa exemptions for areas we have shortages in, it is in our power to this. A bilateral free movement agreement with individual European countries, creating common travel areas. Tricky one with the EU and Brexit hardliners but should be worked on. There are so many opportunities, and I feel we are not talking about them or doing anything to stimulate them at a government level. Presumably free trade zones are the free ports launched a couple of years ago. Not checked recently but seem to be going well when I did, to the point that those that originally refused (SNP) changed their minds. As I understand it, although there are free ports in Europe, they have much tighter restrictions than the ones currently in the UK and would not be allowed previously. Trade deals done now can be more tailored to UK needs and have a much greater emphasis on services than they did in the past. Apparently the UK now has more trade agreements than when in the EU. Even SKS was complimentary about the UK joining the Pacific trade group when it finally came into force a couple of months ago, despite his criticism when in opposition. I'm not sure how keen labour will be on non EU things given recent comments but good to see the talks with India are resuming." Yes Free ports
Our manufacturing is in the gutter! They support UK exports by allowing businesses to import components tax free, holding off import duties until the final product is sold domestically. If the finished product is exported, no import taxes are ever paid..
It’s a brilliant scheme, and there is no reason why more can’t be created across the country as part of a wider UK strategy for GDP growth through a manufacturing revival.
FTA's as you say on the up, it should be a great time to be importing to be exporting. | |||
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"This thread is such an eye opener, mention opportunities and leftists are not happy. "I don't know if that is a complement or not (I am really not sure or bothered either way) as I have never thought of myself as being a leftist! Because I am pro EU does that make me a leftist (genuine question)? I am also very pro UK - does that make me a leftist? Or a rightist? Or a centralist? A nationist? I want what is best for the UK, for Europe and essentially for everyone hence I feel strongly about things. But, you and most people on here, also want what is best for the UK although perhaps some don't want what is best for the EU but what box are they in? Are people actually in boxes or can they be in a number of boxes at the same time? Left, Right or centre or in-between what does it matter if we are looking for the best for our country and it's inhabitants? I don't see myself as a leftist but thank you for the compliment (or perhaps it wasn't a complement at all)! | |||
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"This thread is such an eye opener, mention opportunities and leftists are not happy. "Mention reality and some turn into the a dalai lama like guru suggesting sitting round thinking 'it's all ok it's all ok' really hard..
Does chanting ohm help?
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"This thread is such an eye opener, mention opportunities and leftists are not happy.
Mention reality and some turn into the a dalai lama like guru suggesting sitting round thinking 'it's all ok it's all ok' really hard..
Does chanting ohm help?
"Pulling the plug out the modem is the future | |||
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"This thread is such an eye opener, mention opportunities and leftists are not happy.
Mention reality and some turn into the a dalai lama like guru suggesting sitting round thinking 'it's all ok it's all ok' really hard..
Does chanting ohm help?
Pulling the plug out the modem is the future "Not incense then .. | |||
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"This thread is such an eye opener, mention opportunities and leftists are not happy.
Mention reality and some turn into the a dalai lama like guru suggesting sitting round thinking 'it's all ok it's all ok' really hard..
Does chanting ohm help?
Pulling the plug out the modem is the future
Not incense then .. "I’m not going down that leftist hippy trap | |||
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"This thread is such an eye opener, mention opportunities and leftists are not happy.
Mention reality and some turn into the a dalai lama like guru suggesting sitting round thinking 'it's all ok it's all ok' really hard..
Does chanting ohm help?
Pulling the plug out the modem is the future
Not incense then ..
I’m not going down that leftist hippy trap "I reckon you've got a kaftan and some eco friendly sandals hidden away in preparation.. Bit of whale music and your good to go  | |||
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"This thread is such an eye opener, mention opportunities and leftists are not happy.
Mention reality and some turn into the a dalai lama like guru suggesting sitting round thinking 'it's all ok it's all ok' really hard..
Does chanting ohm help?
Pulling the plug out the modem is the future
Not incense then ..
I’m not going down that leftist hippy trap
I reckon you've got a kaftan and some eco friendly sandals hidden away in preparation..
Bit of whale music and your good to go " | |||
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"Certainly the UK needs a 'wake-up' call along the lines of Thatcherism in the 80's. Something that challenges all the bonkers stuff we have sleepwalked into. Like 9.5 mil. citizens dependant on state welfare benefits, like gormlessly watching our borders violated every day of the week, like tolerance of almost all petty crime. The question is, who has the balls to do it? The trouble with a re-run of Thatcherism is that the unions she fought are a shadow of the force they were and there are no public utilities to flog off apart from the NHS." Really? Mick Young is pulling Labour's strings. | |||
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"oh dear ... more sufferers of trade-union derangement syndrome "I thought it was trades union related derangement syndrome.. | |||
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"With regards to the NHS, Labour deserve a lot of credit for rolling out bowel cancer screening for the over 50's. I received my test kit just after Christmas and got my result back very quickly...no messing about. So, well done Labour for that. " I had one of those a could of years ago, pre Labour? | |||
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"With regards to the NHS, Labour deserve a lot of credit for rolling out bowel cancer screening for the over 50's. I received my test kit just after Christmas and got my result back very quickly...no messing about. So, well done Labour for that. I had one of those a could of years ago, pre Labour?" Did you ask for it or doc recommended it? I never asked for mine, it just got sent... | |||
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