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"Oh Jools. Do what I do. Say your piece and then forget you’ve posted. Then think of something else to add 3 hours later and ignore all the other comments and just add your 2 penneth worth. I’m not really a political person, but I have things I feel strongly about and I’ll say my bit even if I sound like an uneducated muppet to those who are more clued up, because why not. Sometimes you get flamed, sometimes you get educated. Just roll with it. " Love this I might stop reading all posts and just add my thoughts lol.. | |||
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"Oh Jools. Do what I do. Say your piece and then forget you’ve posted. Then think of something else to add 3 hours later and ignore all the other comments and just add your 2 penneth worth. I’m not really a political person, but I have things I feel strongly about and I’ll say my bit even if I sound like an uneducated muppet to those who are more clued up, because why not. Sometimes you get flamed, sometimes you get educated. Just roll with it. Love this I might stop reading all posts and just add my thoughts lol.. " I thought you did  | |||
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"lol best thing in the politics thread is to not think of it personally and to have tough skin.. Besides… as long as any position has some sort of evidence behind it, rather than just throwing shit at a wall and seeing what sticks, I quite admire people who can make me think … it’s brain engaging If I wanted mush… I’d stick around the lounge more often! So sweetly sweet it there at times I just have to walk away " I have always appreciated your posts. They are engaging and often educating. | |||
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"It's just every post is hijacked by the anti labour hate ,it's getting impossible to have a discussion without it being derailed , frankly it's boring and repetitive." Don’t let them grind you down , sometimes you just can’t help “stupid” … if people are one trick pony’s then just give the short shrift | |||
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"It's just every post is hijacked by the anti labour hate ,it's getting impossible to have a discussion without it being derailed , frankly it's boring and repetitive." The righties get on my nerves too. | |||
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"It's just every post is hijacked by the anti labour hate ,it's getting impossible to have a discussion without it being derailed , frankly it's boring and repetitive." Labour are in power, its natural they will get a disproportionate amount of criticism. The politics of the Lounge are somewhere to the left of Joe Stalin so I find much more balance here. | |||
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"It's just every post is hijacked by the anti labour hate ,it's getting impossible to have a discussion without it being derailed , frankly it's boring and repetitive." its only because labour are in power now up until 6or7months ago most posts were highjacked by anti tory hate, its the politics forum what do you expect civil discussions? | |||
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"lol best thing in the politics thread is to not think of it personally and to have tough skin.. Besides… as long as any position has some sort of evidence behind it, rather than just throwing shit at a wall and seeing what sticks, I quite admire people who can make me think … it’s brain engaging If I wanted mush… I’d stick around the lounge more often! So sweetly sweet it there at times I just have to walk away " We finally agree on something Fabio  | |||
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"It's just every post is hijacked by the anti labour hate ,it's getting impossible to have a discussion without it being derailed , frankly it's boring and repetitive." There seem to be quite a few Labour voters who have disappeared from the forum.. Presumably too embarrassed to show their faces. | |||
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"It's just every post is hijacked by the anti labour hate ,it's getting impossible to have a discussion without it being derailed , frankly it's boring and repetitive. The righties get on my nerves too. " As someone with views both left and right I find the lefties annoying too | |||
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"Oh Jools. Do what I do. Say your piece and then forget you’ve posted. Then think of something else to add 3 hours later and ignore all the other comments and just add your 2 penneth worth. I’m not really a political person, but I have things I feel strongly about and I’ll say my bit even if I sound like an uneducated muppet to those who are more clued up, because why not. Sometimes you get flamed, sometimes you get educated. Just roll with it. "  | |||
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"It's just every post is hijacked by the anti labour hate ,it's getting impossible to have a discussion without it being derailed , frankly it's boring and repetitive." No different to the when the Tories were in power, although it was very noticeable that the hatred was focussed on the voters as much as the party. | |||
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"It's just every post is hijacked by the anti labour hate ,it's getting impossible to have a discussion without it being derailed , frankly it's boring and repetitive. The righties get on my nerves too. As someone with views both left and right I find the lefties annoying too"  | |||
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"It's just every post is hijacked by the anti labour hate ,it's getting impossible to have a discussion without it being derailed , frankly it's boring and repetitive. The righties get on my nerves too. " Very evident on here the lefties are the majority on here. Just like watching bbc and their disinformation. | |||
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"It's just every post is hijacked by the anti labour hate ,it's getting impossible to have a discussion without it being derailed , frankly it's boring and repetitive. The righties get on my nerves too. Very evident on here the lefties are the majority on here. Just like watching bbc and their disinformation. " 🤣 | |||
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"Small minority of the electorate vote for a Labour government which most people knew would be shit. Labour government turns out to be shit. The 80% who didn’t vote for the shit Labour government point out that it’s shit. Rather than owning their mistake and undergoing some self analysis the Labour voters complain about “anti Labour hate”. This is a pretty common pattern in modern Western society. It’s all someone else’s fault and everyone else is the one with the problem. I’m not responsible for my actions. Maybe we’ll soon get a law against “Labourphobia”. " What a fantasy world some people live in. Spouting rubbish and hoping people will believe it. Just because Trump is getting away with it at the moment does not mean that it is correct. As always, rather than people believing what is written here or anywhere else, check the facts yourself. Fascism is rife in the western world and lies, fiction and fantasy are their trademark. Nazi Germany started like this and some individuals appear to want the same thing to happen across Europe starting in the UK. I have a mind to report the above post to the administrators due to its falsehood. | |||
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"Small minority of the electorate vote for a Labour government which most people knew would be shit. Labour government turns out to be shit. The 80% who didn’t vote for the shit Labour government point out that it’s shit. Rather than owning their mistake and undergoing some self analysis the Labour voters complain about “anti Labour hate”. This is a pretty common pattern in modern Western society. It’s all someone else’s fault and everyone else is the one with the problem. I’m not responsible for my actions. Maybe we’ll soon get a law against “Labourphobia”. What a fantasy world some people live in. Spouting rubbish and hoping people will believe it. Just because Trump is getting away with it at the moment does not mean that it is correct. As always, rather than people believing what is written here or anywhere else, check the facts yourself. Fascism is rife in the western world and lies, fiction and fantasy are their trademark. Nazi Germany started like this and some individuals appear to want the same thing to happen across Europe starting in the UK. I have a mind to report the above post to the administrators due to its falsehood." Which “facts” are you talking about? Your post doesn’t contain any. But thank you for emphasising my point. | |||
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"Small minority of the electorate vote for a Labour government which most people knew would be shit. Labour government turns out to be shit. The 80% who didn’t vote for the shit Labour government point out that it’s shit. Rather than owning their mistake and undergoing some self analysis the Labour voters complain about “anti Labour hate”. This is a pretty common pattern in modern Western society. It’s all someone else’s fault and everyone else is the one with the problem. I’m not responsible for my actions. Maybe we’ll soon get a law against “Labourphobia”. " Which party got a bigger share of the vote, just so we know who should be running the country ? | |||
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"Small minority of the electorate vote for a Labour government which most people knew would be shit. Labour government turns out to be shit. The 80% who didn’t vote for the shit Labour government point out that it’s shit. Rather than owning their mistake and undergoing some self analysis the Labour voters complain about “anti Labour hate”. This is a pretty common pattern in modern Western society. It’s all someone else’s fault and everyone else is the one with the problem. I’m not responsible for my actions. Maybe we’ll soon get a law against “Labourphobia”. What a fantasy world some people live in. Spouting rubbish and hoping people will believe it. Just because Trump is getting away with it at the moment does not mean that it is correct. As always, rather than people believing what is written here or anywhere else, check the facts yourself. Fascism is rife in the western world and lies, fiction and fantasy are their trademark. Nazi Germany started like this and some individuals appear to want the same thing to happen across Europe starting in the UK. I have a mind to report the above post to the administrators due to its falsehood. Which “facts” are you talking about? Your post doesn’t contain any. But thank you for emphasising my point." You don't have a point. | |||
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"Small minority of the electorate vote for a Labour government which most people knew would be shit. Labour government turns out to be shit. The 80% who didn’t vote for the shit Labour government point out that it’s shit. Rather than owning their mistake and undergoing some self analysis the Labour voters complain about “anti Labour hate”. This is a pretty common pattern in modern Western society. It’s all someone else’s fault and everyone else is the one with the problem. I’m not responsible for my actions. Maybe we’ll soon get a law against “Labourphobia”. Which party got a bigger share of the vote, just so we know who should be running the country ?" I’m sure you can use the internet to find out this information. Maybe try the BBC website I’m sure you are familiar with it. But in 2024 there was a turnout of just under 60%. Labour got 33% of the vote, or around 20% of the vote if you look at the percentage against the total electorate. Number of votes per seat: Labour 23k Tories 56k Greens 485k Reform 823k None of this is at all relevant to this thread. Which is effectively an attempt by a dwindling band of Labour bitterenders to stifle debate. Rather than come to terms with their error, they seek to blame everyone else and censor any criticism of “the Party”, like we are living in some latter day East Germany. They’ve spent over a decade waiting for their Labour shangri-la and it’s overnight turned into a total dud. Of course there is always going to be a hard core of public sector workers who are too financially invested in Labour to do or say anything else. | |||
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"Ah so now we are going down the % per seat, not % of the national vote. I also see you are including the % who didn't vote. I remember the whole brexit vote when remoaners were mocked for doing the very same thing" I’m afraid if you live in a country where 80% of the electorate entitled to vote didn’t vote for the government, you have to accept that there is quite a large pool of people who aren’t naturally inclined to agree with that government’s policies. And given that frankly Labour must be a major disappointment to its own voter pool given how out of its depth it clearly is, one must be amazed that it can poll at 23%. One must wonder who this 23% are. Presumably the usual motley crew of self - interested public sector workers and out of touch brainwashed urban graduates, and a handful of “my family have voted Labour for generations” people who haven’t woken up yet. | |||
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"It's just every post is hijacked by the anti labour hate ,it's getting impossible to have a discussion without it being derailed , frankly it's boring and repetitive." Basically why I don't bother anymore. It's not a politics forum, it's more just copy and pasted nonsense from GBNews. It was much funnier when it was just "Brexit is a good idea" or "the Tories are infallible". At least it was funny. Ahhh back in the day.... | |||
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"Small minority of the electorate vote for a Labour government which most people knew would be shit. Labour government turns out to be shit. The 80% who didn’t vote for the shit Labour government point out that it’s shit. Rather than owning their mistake and undergoing some self analysis the Labour voters complain about “anti Labour hate”. This is a pretty common pattern in modern Western society. It’s all someone else’s fault and everyone else is the one with the problem. I’m not responsible for my actions. Maybe we’ll soon get a law against “Labourphobia”. Which party got a bigger share of the vote, just so we know who should be running the country ? I’m sure you can use the internet to find out this information. Maybe try the BBC website I’m sure you are familiar with it. But in 2024 there was a turnout of just under 60%. Labour got 33% of the vote, or around 20% of the vote if you look at the percentage against the total electorate. Number of votes per seat: Labour 23k Tories 56k Greens 485k Reform 823k None of this is at all relevant to this thread. Which is effectively an attempt by a dwindling band of Labour bitterenders to stifle debate. Rather than come to terms with their error, they seek to blame everyone else and censor any criticism of “the Party”, like we are living in some latter day East Germany. They’ve spent over a decade waiting for their Labour shangri-la and it’s overnight turned into a total dud. Of course there is always going to be a hard core of public sector workers who are too financially invested in Labour to do or say anything else. " And there are those of us lefties who think you spout bs  .
I voted Labour wahooooooooo.
Didn't matter cos it's a safe Tory seat sadly.
I'm more of a Lib Dem though. | |||
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"Small minority of the electorate vote for a Labour government which most people knew would be shit. Labour government turns out to be shit. The 80% who didn’t vote for the shit Labour government point out that it’s shit. Rather than owning their mistake and undergoing some self analysis the Labour voters complain about “anti Labour hate”. This is a pretty common pattern in modern Western society. It’s all someone else’s fault and everyone else is the one with the problem. I’m not responsible for my actions. Maybe we’ll soon get a law against “Labourphobia”. Which party got a bigger share of the vote, just so we know who should be running the country ? I’m sure you can use the internet to find out this information. Maybe try the BBC website I’m sure you are familiar with it. But in 2024 there was a turnout of just under 60%. Labour got 33% of the vote, or around 20% of the vote if you look at the percentage against the total electorate. Number of votes per seat: Labour 23k Tories 56k Greens 485k Reform 823k None of this is at all relevant to this thread. Which is effectively an attempt by a dwindling band of Labour bitterenders to stifle debate. Rather than come to terms with their error, they seek to blame everyone else and censor any criticism of “the Party”, like we are living in some latter day East Germany. They’ve spent over a decade waiting for their Labour shangri-la and it’s overnight turned into a total dud. Of course there is always going to be a hard core of public sector workers who are too financially invested in Labour to do or say anything else. And there are those of us lefties who think you spout bs .
I voted Labour wahooooooooo.
Didn't matter cos it's a safe Tory seat sadly.
I'm more of a Lib Dem though."So which of the core Labour demographics do you fit in: Public sector worker Brainwashed urban dwelling graduate “My family have voted Labour for generations” | |||
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"Small minority of the electorate vote for a Labour government which most people knew would be shit. Labour government turns out to be shit. The 80% who didn’t vote for the shit Labour government point out that it’s shit. Rather than owning their mistake and undergoing some self analysis the Labour voters complain about “anti Labour hate”. This is a pretty common pattern in modern Western society. It’s all someone else’s fault and everyone else is the one with the problem. I’m not responsible for my actions. Maybe we’ll soon get a law against “Labourphobia”. Which party got a bigger share of the vote, just so we know who should be running the country ? I’m sure you can use the internet to find out this information. Maybe try the BBC website I’m sure you are familiar with it. But in 2024 there was a turnout of just under 60%. Labour got 33% of the vote, or around 20% of the vote if you look at the percentage against the total electorate. Number of votes per seat: Labour 23k Tories 56k Greens 485k Reform 823k None of this is at all relevant to this thread. Which is effectively an attempt by a dwindling band of Labour bitterenders to stifle debate. Rather than come to terms with their error, they seek to blame everyone else and censor any criticism of “the Party”, like we are living in some latter day East Germany. They’ve spent over a decade waiting for their Labour shangri-la and it’s overnight turned into a total dud. Of course there is always going to be a hard core of public sector workers who are too financially invested in Labour to do or say anything else. And there are those of us lefties who think you spout bs .
I voted Labour wahooooooooo.
Didn't matter cos it's a safe Tory seat sadly.
I'm more of a Lib Dem though.
So which of the core Labour demographics do you fit in:
Public sector worker
Brainwashed urban dwelling graduate
“My family have voted Labour for generations”"The first. But which bit of my Lib dem preference did you ignore? | |||
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"Small minority of the electorate vote for a Labour government which most people knew would be shit. Labour government turns out to be shit. The 80% who didn’t vote for the shit Labour government point out that it’s shit. Rather than owning their mistake and undergoing some self analysis the Labour voters complain about “anti Labour hate”. This is a pretty common pattern in modern Western society. It’s all someone else’s fault and everyone else is the one with the problem. I’m not responsible for my actions. Maybe we’ll soon get a law against “Labourphobia”. Which party got a bigger share of the vote, just so we know who should be running the country ? I’m sure you can use the internet to find out this information. Maybe try the BBC website I’m sure you are familiar with it. But in 2024 there was a turnout of just under 60%. Labour got 33% of the vote, or around 20% of the vote if you look at the percentage against the total electorate. Number of votes per seat: Labour 23k Tories 56k Greens 485k Reform 823k None of this is at all relevant to this thread. Which is effectively an attempt by a dwindling band of Labour bitterenders to stifle debate. Rather than come to terms with their error, they seek to blame everyone else and censor any criticism of “the Party”, like we are living in some latter day East Germany. They’ve spent over a decade waiting for their Labour shangri-la and it’s overnight turned into a total dud. Of course there is always going to be a hard core of public sector workers who are too financially invested in Labour to do or say anything else. And there are those of us lefties who think you spout bs .
I voted Labour wahooooooooo.
Didn't matter cos it's a safe Tory seat sadly.
I'm more of a Lib Dem though.
So which of the core Labour demographics do you fit in:
Public sector worker
Brainwashed urban dwelling graduate
“My family have voted Labour for generations”
The first. But which bit of my Lib dem preference did you ignore? "Labour voter = public sector worker Lib Dem voter = white middle class affluent guilt-ridden public sector worker | |||
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"Small minority of the electorate vote for a Labour government which most people knew would be shit. Labour government turns out to be shit. The 80% who didn’t vote for the shit Labour government point out that it’s shit. Rather than owning their mistake and undergoing some self analysis the Labour voters complain about “anti Labour hate”. This is a pretty common pattern in modern Western society. It’s all someone else’s fault and everyone else is the one with the problem. I’m not responsible for my actions. Maybe we’ll soon get a law against “Labourphobia”. Which party got a bigger share of the vote, just so we know who should be running the country ? I’m sure you can use the internet to find out this information. Maybe try the BBC website I’m sure you are familiar with it. But in 2024 there was a turnout of just under 60%. Labour got 33% of the vote, or around 20% of the vote if you look at the percentage against the total electorate. Number of votes per seat: Labour 23k Tories 56k Greens 485k Reform 823k None of this is at all relevant to this thread. Which is effectively an attempt by a dwindling band of Labour bitterenders to stifle debate. Rather than come to terms with their error, they seek to blame everyone else and censor any criticism of “the Party”, like we are living in some latter day East Germany. They’ve spent over a decade waiting for their Labour shangri-la and it’s overnight turned into a total dud. Of course there is always going to be a hard core of public sector workers who are too financially invested in Labour to do or say anything else. And there are those of us lefties who think you spout bs .
I voted Labour wahooooooooo.
Didn't matter cos it's a safe Tory seat sadly.
I'm more of a Lib Dem though.
So which of the core Labour demographics do you fit in:
Public sector worker
Brainwashed urban dwelling graduate
“My family have voted Labour for generations”
The first. But which bit of my Lib dem preference did you ignore?
Labour voter = public sector worker
Lib Dem voter = white middle class affluent guilt-ridden public sector worker"Omg you couldn't be more wrong
I come from the poorest of backgrounds. I brought my children up in a slightly less poor environment. And dragged myself up and to uni as an old woman.
Feel proud Mr judgemental, feel very proud .
Btw I am proud that my professional status equates to middle class. I'll reach affluence when I bag myself a rich man  | |||
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"It's just every post is hijacked by the anti labour hate ,it's getting impossible to have a discussion without it being derailed , frankly it's boring and repetitive." I agree that the conversation has died in here. However, before the election, this forum was filled with rather rabid lefties who tried to shut down any sensible debate if it didn’t align with their views. It may be a sign of the times, and a consequence of the poor education system. This feeds through our entire society, and has resulted in the current crop of politicians (whatever political party they belong to) being exceedingly bad. | |||
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"Small minority of the electorate vote for a Labour government which most people knew would be shit. Labour government turns out to be shit. The 80% who didn’t vote for the shit Labour government point out that it’s shit. Rather than owning their mistake and undergoing some self analysis the Labour voters complain about “anti Labour hate”. This is a pretty common pattern in modern Western society. It’s all someone else’s fault and everyone else is the one with the problem. I’m not responsible for my actions. Maybe we’ll soon get a law against “Labourphobia”. Which party got a bigger share of the vote, just so we know who should be running the country ? I’m sure you can use the internet to find out this information. Maybe try the BBC website I’m sure you are familiar with it. But in 2024 there was a turnout of just under 60%. Labour got 33% of the vote, or around 20% of the vote if you look at the percentage against the total electorate. Number of votes per seat: Labour 23k Tories 56k Greens 485k Reform 823k None of this is at all relevant to this thread. Which is effectively an attempt by a dwindling band of Labour bitterenders to stifle debate. Rather than come to terms with their error, they seek to blame everyone else and censor any criticism of “the Party”, like we are living in some latter day East Germany. They’ve spent over a decade waiting for their Labour shangri-la and it’s overnight turned into a total dud. Of course there is always going to be a hard core of public sector workers who are too financially invested in Labour to do or say anything else. And there are those of us lefties who think you spout bs .
I voted Labour wahooooooooo.
Didn't matter cos it's a safe Tory seat sadly.
I'm more of a Lib Dem though.
So which of the core Labour demographics do you fit in:
Public sector worker
Brainwashed urban dwelling graduate
“My family have voted Labour for generations”
The first. But which bit of my Lib dem preference did you ignore?
Labour voter = public sector worker
Lib Dem voter = white middle class affluent guilt-ridden public sector worker
Omg you couldn't be more wrong
I come from the poorest of backgrounds. I brought my children up in a slightly less poor environment. And dragged myself up and to uni as an old woman.
Feel proud Mr judgemental, feel very proud .
Btw I am proud that my professional status equates to middle class. I'll reach affluence when I bag myself a rich man "I think a lot of Leftists are concerned about status. People like Bridget Phillipson seem to be overwhelmingly driven by resentment and bitterness. Probably some imagined sleights she thinks she endured as some point in her life from someone with more money than her. And here we are all paying the price! Personally I admire people who go to university later in life. I doubt whether I’d bother going nowadays. It always had a leftward slant but now it’s just a brainwashing machine turning people stupid. | |||
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"Small minority of the electorate vote for a Labour government which most people knew would be shit. Labour government turns out to be shit. The 80% who didn’t vote for the shit Labour government point out that it’s shit. Rather than owning their mistake and undergoing some self analysis the Labour voters complain about “anti Labour hate”. This is a pretty common pattern in modern Western society. It’s all someone else’s fault and everyone else is the one with the problem. I’m not responsible for my actions. Maybe we’ll soon get a law against “Labourphobia”. Which party got a bigger share of the vote, just so we know who should be running the country ? I’m sure you can use the internet to find out this information. Maybe try the BBC website I’m sure you are familiar with it. But in 2024 there was a turnout of just under 60%. Labour got 33% of the vote, or around 20% of the vote if you look at the percentage against the total electorate. Number of votes per seat: Labour 23k Tories 56k Greens 485k Reform 823k None of this is at all relevant to this thread. Which is effectively an attempt by a dwindling band of Labour bitterenders to stifle debate. Rather than come to terms with their error, they seek to blame everyone else and censor any criticism of “the Party”, like we are living in some latter day East Germany. They’ve spent over a decade waiting for their Labour shangri-la and it’s overnight turned into a total dud. Of course there is always going to be a hard core of public sector workers who are too financially invested in Labour to do or say anything else. And there are those of us lefties who think you spout bs .
I voted Labour wahooooooooo.
Didn't matter cos it's a safe Tory seat sadly.
I'm more of a Lib Dem though.
So which of the core Labour demographics do you fit in:
Public sector worker
Brainwashed urban dwelling graduate
“My family have voted Labour for generations”
The first. But which bit of my Lib dem preference did you ignore?
Labour voter = public sector worker
Lib Dem voter = white middle class affluent guilt-ridden public sector worker
Omg you couldn't be more wrong
I come from the poorest of backgrounds. I brought my children up in a slightly less poor environment. And dragged myself up and to uni as an old woman.
Feel proud Mr judgemental, feel very proud .
Btw I am proud that my professional status equates to middle class. I'll reach affluence when I bag myself a rich man
I think a lot of Leftists are concerned about status.
People like Bridget Phillipson seem to be overwhelmingly driven by resentment and bitterness. Probably some imagined sleights she thinks she endured as some point in her life from someone with more money than her.
And here we are all paying the price!
Personally I admire people who go to university later in life.
I doubt whether I’d bother going nowadays. It always had a leftward slant but now it’s just a brainwashing machine turning people stupid.
"I imagine it depends on what the course is. Again with the judgement! | |||
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" I doubt whether I’d bother going nowadays. It always had a leftward slant but now it’s just a brainwashing machine turning people stupid. " Anti-intellectualism is taking over here as we've seen in the US. Not even sure how this kind of movement can be combatted. But it's a serious problem we face. People start with thinking that being educated makes you stupid, then there's a clear path to climate change denial, thinking Brexit is a good idea, and Covid conspiracies. | |||
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" I doubt whether I’d bother going nowadays. It always had a leftward slant but now it’s just a brainwashing machine turning people stupid. Anti-intellectualism is taking over here as we've seen in the US. Not even sure how this kind of movement can be combatted. But it's a serious problem we face. People start with thinking that being educated makes you stupid, then there's a clear path to climate change denial, thinking Brexit is a good idea, and Covid conspiracies. " It’s interesting how you’ve grouped Brexit and climate change which are both legitimate areas of debate, with Covid conspiracies...
Question: Someone who is "anti-intellectualism" and someone who simply has different perspectives on political or economic matters, how do you differentiate them? | |||
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"Anti-intellectualism is mostly ideologues with cognitive dissonance criticising pragmatists. It’s a waste of time tying to change their made up minds. They just get angry, shout louder than the pragmatists and their message travels furthest." There is an assumption that one side is correct while the other is just irrational. But if both sides of an argument are equally steadfast in their positions, how does this distinction apply? Wouldn’t that mean both sides could accuse the other of ideological rigidity and cognitive dissonance, which then brings us back to the sentiment of the thread. | |||
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"It's just every post is hijacked by the anti labour hate ,it's getting impossible to have a discussion without it being derailed , frankly it's boring and repetitive." It's simply a case of who is in power gets held to account for their actual actions and decisions. A bit like the politicians themselves in that for 14 years Labour politicians could criticise everything the Tories done with either not having a plan themselves or if they had a plan it would not be put to the test as they did not have to implement anything. Labour have discovered the realities of being in government are a lot harder than just criticising from the side lines | |||
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"Anti-intellectualism is mostly ideologues with cognitive dissonance criticising pragmatists. It’s a waste of time tying to change their made up minds. They just get angry, shout louder than the pragmatists and their message travels furthest. There is an assumption that one side is correct while the other is just irrational. But if both sides of an argument are equally steadfast in their positions, how does this distinction apply? Wouldn’t that mean both sides could accuse the other of ideological rigidity and cognitive dissonance, which then brings us back to the sentiment of the thread." “Mostly” should not be ignored. And I’m generally referring to the culture that Gove nurtured with his “people in this country have had enough of experts”. | |||
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"True intellectuals are pragmatists." Hey, I resemble that sentence .
I was an intellectual before I could prove it gaining a first class honours degree - or should I say the degree is simply the icing on the cake? | |||
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"True intellectuals are pragmatists." I don't agree. Coming from someone me who is definitely more pragmatic than anything else, sometimes you have to use some speculation and theory to advance. Your statements are more dogmatic than anything, which you seem to have distance yourself from being in other posts. Or you're being facetious/on the wind. Either of which are fair imo mind 🤷♂️ | |||
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"True intellectuals are pragmatists." That’s an interesting definition, but isn’t it a little too convenient? There are countless highly educated intellectuals including political leaders, religious leaders, and influential thinkers, who have been deeply ideological rather than purely pragmatic. By your definition, any intellectual with strong ideological beliefs wouldn’t be a “true intellectual”. Taking it a step further, wouldn’t that mean that no political party demonstrates true intellect, since all are driven by ideology rather than pure pragmatism? And if that’s the case, doesn’t it just bring us back to the core issue of the thread, that rigid, inflexible thinking exists across the board, not just on one side and in end that is "mostly" all. | |||
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"True intellectuals are pragmatists. That’s an interesting definition, but isn’t it a little too convenient? There are countless highly educated intellectuals including political leaders, religious leaders, and influential thinkers, who have been deeply ideological rather than purely pragmatic. By your definition, any intellectual with strong ideological beliefs wouldn’t be a “true intellectual”. Taking it a step further, wouldn’t that mean that no political party demonstrates true intellect, since all are driven by ideology rather than pure pragmatism? And if that’s the case, doesn’t it just bring us back to the core issue of the thread, that rigid, inflexible thinking exists across the board, not just on one side and in end that is "mostly" all." “True” intellectuals. | |||
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"True intellectuals are pragmatists. That’s an interesting definition, but isn’t it a little too convenient? There are countless highly educated intellectuals including political leaders, religious leaders, and influential thinkers, who have been deeply ideological rather than purely pragmatic. By your definition, any intellectual with strong ideological beliefs wouldn’t be a “true intellectual”. Taking it a step further, wouldn’t that mean that no political party demonstrates true intellect, since all are driven by ideology rather than pure pragmatism? And if that’s the case, doesn’t it just bring us back to the core issue of the thread, that rigid, inflexible thinking exists across the board, not just on one side and in end that is "mostly" all. “True” intellectuals." So, what exactly defines a “true” intellectual? Is it someone who aligns with your version of pragmatism? And if they don’t align with mine, then who decides which definition is correct? At that point, isn’t that just dogma as mentioned by another poster, an utter belief in your own interpretation of what an intellectual is? | |||
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"True intellectuals are pragmatists. I don't agree. Coming from someone me who is definitely more pragmatic than anything else, sometimes you have to use some speculation and theory to advance. Your statements are more dogmatic than anything, which you seem to have distance yourself from being in other posts. Or you're being facetious/on the wind. Either of which are fair imo mind 🤷♂️" You have to know when you are speculating or theorising for it to be beneficial. That’s part of pragmatism. | |||
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"True intellectuals are pragmatists. Hey, I resemble that sentence .
I was an intellectual before I could prove it gaining a first class honours degree - or should I say the degree is simply the icing on the cake?"The type of degree could make a difference. An ideologue could get a basic degree in psychology by learning the opinions of others. A PhD in psychology would require someone who could break new ground with that knowledge. Which takes pragmatic discipline. Other subjects might not be so easy for ideologues. | |||
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" I doubt whether I’d bother going nowadays. It always had a leftward slant but now it’s just a brainwashing machine turning people stupid. Anti-intellectualism is taking over here as we've seen in the US. Not even sure how this kind of movement can be combatted. But it's a serious problem we face. People start with thinking that being educated makes you stupid, then there's a clear path to climate change denial, thinking Brexit is a good idea, and Covid conspiracies. " If you disagree with me you're anti-intellectual Of course | |||
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"True intellectuals are pragmatists. That’s an interesting definition, but isn’t it a little too convenient? There are countless highly educated intellectuals including political leaders, religious leaders, and influential thinkers, who have been deeply ideological rather than purely pragmatic. By your definition, any intellectual with strong ideological beliefs wouldn’t be a “true intellectual”. Taking it a step further, wouldn’t that mean that no political party demonstrates true intellect, since all are driven by ideology rather than pure pragmatism? And if that’s the case, doesn’t it just bring us back to the core issue of the thread, that rigid, inflexible thinking exists across the board, not just on one side and in end that is "mostly" all." What about a pragmatic ideologue | |||
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