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"So looks like the UK and EU aren’t being invited to the Ukraine peace talks. So much for Labour’s “global leadership”. The EU seems to be demanding a seat at the table, like a bunch of sad ugly losers denied an invite to the cool kids’ party. They’ll probably turn up anyway and hang around outside. Humiliating." Do you think the UK should be invited? | |||
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"I'm no political analyst but I think it's irrelevant who attends peace talks as long as a peaceful resolution can be brought about and an end to the death and destruction of Ukrainians." Well with that kind of thinking should Ukrainians just give everything to Russia. Peace at any cost. | |||
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"So looks like the UK and EU aren’t being invited to the Ukraine peace talks. So much for Labour’s “global leadership”. The EU seems to be demanding a seat at the table, like a bunch of sad ugly losers denied an invite to the cool kids’ party. They’ll probably turn up anyway and hang around outside. Humiliating. Do you think the UK should be invited?" nope,not our circus, only other ones who need to be there are ukraine fuck all to do with anyone else | |||
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"Well the UK and EU have supplied political, military and welfare support for Ukraine from the outset, so why wouldn't they be involved in peace negotiations? Or are you happy with a trained KGB agent across the table from a TV reality show celeb?" he shpuldnt be there either it should be the trained kgb agent and the tv comedian from ukraine, if the comedian dosent want to and wants to carry on fighting yhats down to him but they are running out out bodies and will lose even more of there land | |||
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"Well the UK and EU have supplied political, military and welfare support for Ukraine from the outset, so why wouldn't they be involved in peace negotiations? Or are you happy with a trained KGB agent across the table from a TV reality show celeb?he shpuldnt be there either it should be the trained kgb agent and the tv comedian from ukraine, if the comedian dosent want to and wants to carry on fighting yhats down to him but they are running out out bodies and will lose even more of there land" Negotiations need an intermediary to reach a compromise, it's a question of who should be around the table. If Putin gets to keep his territorial gains, Eastern Europe is fvcked!! | |||
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"Well the UK and EU have supplied political, military and welfare support for Ukraine from the outset, so why wouldn't they be involved in peace negotiations? Or are you happy with a trained KGB agent across the table from a TV reality show celeb?he shpuldnt be there either it should be the trained kgb agent and the tv comedian from ukraine, if the comedian dosent want to and wants to carry on fighting yhats down to him but they are running out out bodies and will lose even more of there land Negotiations need an intermediary to reach a compromise, it's a question of who should be around the table. If Putin gets to keep his territorial gains, Eastern Europe is fvcked!!" what do you meen if he gets to keep them,what they have taken of the donbass and also crimea isnt getting given back you obviously havent been paying attention to what putin has said | |||
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"Am I being naive here? If the peace talks don't involve the Ukraine, UK and EU, and these don't like what's been decided, then these three can bunch together and the war continues. " Exactly. But the UK and EU probably can't make enough ammunition to supply Ukrain. So what trump wants is for these Nations to then buy it from the USA with the Trade tariffs that have been imposed so for the USA its a win Win. | |||
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"Well the UK and EU have supplied political, military and welfare support for Ukraine from the outset, so why wouldn't they be involved in peace negotiations? Or are you happy with a trained KGB agent across the table from a TV reality show celeb?he shpuldnt be there either it should be the trained kgb agent and the tv comedian from ukraine, if the comedian dosent want to and wants to carry on fighting yhats down to him but they are running out out bodies and will lose even more of there land Negotiations need an intermediary to reach a compromise, it's a question of who should be around the table. If Putin gets to keep his territorial gains, Eastern Europe is fvcked!!what do you meen if he gets to keep them,what they have taken of the donbass and also crimea isnt getting given back you obviously havent been paying attention to what putin has said" So dose Ucrane still control the bit of Russia they pushed in to and if so do they get to keep that land. Is this going to be the NEW WORLD ORDER. | |||
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"Am I being naive here? If the peace talks don't involve the Ukraine, UK and EU, and these don't like what's been decided, then these three can bunch together and the war continues. " Yes they could carry on. Good luck with that. According to polling that Lord Ashcroft has done in Ukraine, only 20% of Ukrainians think that they are likely to win a military victory. And a clear majority of Ukrainians want a diplomatic settlement. Maybe the UK and EU could carry on without Ukraine!? | |||
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"Am I being naive here? If the peace talks don't involve the Ukraine, UK and EU, and these don't like what's been decided, then these three can bunch together and the war continues. Yes they could carry on. Good luck with that. According to polling that Lord Ashcroft has done in Ukraine, only 20% of Ukrainians think that they are likely to win a military victory. And a clear majority of Ukrainians want a diplomatic settlement. Maybe the UK and EU could carry on without Ukraine!?" My point is, whatever the big bully boys decide at the table, it falls to the Ukraine to make the final decision. And war will depend on whether it has continued support from EU and UK. | |||
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"Well the UK and EU have supplied political, military and welfare support for Ukraine from the outset, so why wouldn't they be involved in peace negotiations? Or are you happy with a trained KGB agent across the table from a TV reality show celeb?he shpuldnt be there either it should be the trained kgb agent and the tv comedian from ukraine, if the comedian dosent want to and wants to carry on fighting yhats down to him but they are running out out bodies and will lose even more of there land Negotiations need an intermediary to reach a compromise, it's a question of who should be around the table. If Putin gets to keep his territorial gains, Eastern Europe is fvcked!!what do you meen if he gets to keep them,what they have taken of the donbass and also crimea isnt getting given back you obviously havent been paying attention to what putin has said So dose Ucrane still control the bit of Russia they pushed in to and if so do they get to keep that land. Is this going to be the NEW WORLD ORDER. " they still have troops there yes but the rusdians have pretty much cornerd them in, they have one way in and out and the russians have that coverd aswell so if supplies try coming in or troops try leaving its pretgy much a turkey shoot, putins plan has always been a war of attrition and the simple truth is they have more troops to waste than ukraine has so they have to ask themselves do they now want to throw there 18_25year old into the fight or do they want to keeo them from being casualties | |||
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"Am I being naive here? If the peace talks don't involve the Ukraine, UK and EU, and these don't like what's been decided, then these three can bunch together and the war continues. Yes they could carry on. Good luck with that. According to polling that Lord Ashcroft has done in Ukraine, only 20% of Ukrainians think that they are likely to win a military victory. And a clear majority of Ukrainians want a diplomatic settlement. Maybe the UK and EU could carry on without Ukraine!? My point is, whatever the big bully boys decide at the table, it falls to the Ukraine to make the final decision. And war will depend on whether it has continued support from EU and UK. " Well if the UK is going to start picking up the US slack I presume we are either going to have to cut public services or increase taxes some more to pay for it. Given the parlous state of the UK economy this doesn’t seem very likely. | |||
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"Am I being naive here? If the peace talks don't involve the Ukraine, UK and EU, and these don't like what's been decided, then these three can bunch together and the war continues. Yes they could carry on. Good luck with that. According to polling that Lord Ashcroft has done in Ukraine, only 20% of Ukrainians think that they are likely to win a military victory. And a clear majority of Ukrainians want a diplomatic settlement. Maybe the UK and EU could carry on without Ukraine!? My point is, whatever the big bully boys decide at the table, it falls to the Ukraine to make the final decision. And war will depend on whether it has continued support from EU and UK. " Ukrainians decision is key but they are not in a strong position. Without US support they will most likely loose even more ground, possibly all of it. European support is a fraction of what's needed. Unless European countries go onto a war footing to manufacture arms then they will never keep up. Unfortunately America is in a position to say to Ukraine, if you don't accept a deal we will halt all military support. At the same time they can say to the Russians, if you don't accept a deal then America will increase military support for Ukraine and maybe find more ways to hurt the Russian economy. Its a terrible situation and could well lead to Ukraine giving up lots of land and showing the world that aggression can pay | |||
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"The eu doesn’t want to see the end as they are all lining their pockets " Compared to the states? The trend in Europe and ourselves has been a reduction in development and production since the wall came down yet America largely due to it's interventions in the middle east has stayed well ahead .. | |||
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"USA aid to Ukraine $68bn EU €52bn UK £4.6bn AUS $1.1bn NZ $32m Japan $12bn humanitarian Seems fair that USA leads the negotiations given it has contributed more than everyone else combined. I don’t know what macron, starmer and others can influence over Trump (Stand to be corrected on any figs was a quick search) " I hadn't looked at the figures before but adding up your figures vs. that for the US gives approximately an equal share for both. I guess that the percentage of GDP would give us a better idea rather than brut totals. Even then, it depends how much the US feels that it should spend money on anywhere else than on themselves and that appears to be what they are getting at. If America intend to pull out of Europe then Europe needs to fill that void but also stop pandering to America. Ask them politely to remove their airbases and missile systems from our soil, stop buying American products etc. The World is changing and we ourselves need to change how we live and approach things. | |||
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"USA aid to Ukraine $68bn EU €52bn UK £4.6bn AUS $1.1bn NZ $32m Japan $12bn humanitarian Seems fair that USA leads the negotiations given it has contributed more than everyone else combined. I don’t know what macron, starmer and others can influence over Trump (Stand to be corrected on any figs was a quick search) I hadn't looked at the figures before but adding up your figures vs. that for the US gives approximately an equal share for both. I guess that the percentage of GDP would give us a better idea rather than brut totals. Even then, it depends how much the US feels that it should spend money on anywhere else than on themselves and that appears to be what they are getting at. If America intend to pull out of Europe then Europe needs to fill that void but also stop pandering to America. Ask them politely to remove their airbases and missile systems from our soil, stop buying American products etc. The World is changing and we ourselves need to change how we live and approach things." I also think (but am not positive) that individual countries within the EU have also contributed independently to support Ukraine (France, Germany, Finland, Poland etc.) which would increase the figures that Europe as a whole is providing in aid and support to Ukraine. | |||
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"USA aid to Ukraine $68bn EU €52bn UK £4.6bn AUS $1.1bn NZ $32m Japan $12bn humanitarian Seems fair that USA leads the negotiations given it has contributed more than everyone else combined. I don’t know what macron, starmer and others can influence over Trump (Stand to be corrected on any figs was a quick search) I hadn't looked at the figures before but adding up your figures vs. that for the US gives approximately an equal share for both. I guess that the percentage of GDP would give us a better idea rather than brut totals. Even then, it depends how much the US feels that it should spend money on anywhere else than on themselves and that appears to be what they are getting at. If America intend to pull out of Europe then Europe needs to fill that void but also stop pandering to America. Ask them politely to remove their airbases and missile systems from our soil, stop buying American products etc. The World is changing and we ourselves need to change how we live and approach things. I also think (but am not positive) that individual countries within the EU have also contributed independently to support Ukraine (France, Germany, Finland, Poland etc.) which would increase the figures that Europe as a whole is providing in aid and support to Ukraine." Looking still further into this the EU has apparently given 143bn euros in aid and support to Ukraine. Source Statista I guess Europe does deserve a seat at the table | |||
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"I'm no political analyst but I think it's irrelevant who attends peace talks as long as a peaceful resolution can be brought about and an end to the death and destruction of Ukrainians. Well with that kind of thinking should Ukrainians just give everything to Russia. Peace at any cost. " I don't think they have many choices, the Russians are grinding through Ukrainians and now they are grabbing people of the streets for the front lines and talks of lowering the age of conscription. Some people won't be satisfied until the Ukrainians have lost every fighting age man | |||
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"USA aid to Ukraine $68bn EU €52bn UK £4.6bn AUS $1.1bn NZ $32m Japan $12bn humanitarian Seems fair that USA leads the negotiations given it has contributed more than everyone else combined. I don’t know what macron, starmer and others can influence over Trump (Stand to be corrected on any figs was a quick search) I hadn't looked at the figures before but adding up your figures vs. that for the US gives approximately an equal share for both. I guess that the percentage of GDP would give us a better idea rather than brut totals. Even then, it depends how much the US feels that it should spend money on anywhere else than on themselves and that appears to be what they are getting at. If America intend to pull out of Europe then Europe needs to fill that void but also stop pandering to America. Ask them politely to remove their airbases and missile systems from our soil, stop buying American products etc. The World is changing and we ourselves need to change how we live and approach things. I also think (but am not positive) that individual countries within the EU have also contributed independently to support Ukraine (France, Germany, Finland, Poland etc.) which would increase the figures that Europe as a whole is providing in aid and support to Ukraine. Looking still further into this the EU has apparently given 143bn euros in aid and support to Ukraine. Source Statista I guess Europe does deserve a seat at the table " And Europe has taken 6M+ refugees, housed and looked after them. Seems catastrophic that trumps presumed carve up of Ukraine puts arguably some of the effort to little gain, those people can’t return to Donbas ever. | |||
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"NEW: Ukraine has NOT been invited to Ukraine peace talks. Zelenskyy to NBC just now: “I will never accept any decisions between United States & Russia about Ukraine. Never.” Clear message. Trump has NO mandate. My take on this is that Trump is going to agree with Putin on terms and present this to Ukraine and Europe on the basis of take it or leave it The leave it option means he pulls everything out of both Ukraine and Europe and increases tariffs against Europe. He will effectively force Europe into capitulation. Then what..." he'll just bankrupt himself if he closes the door to imports on that scale | |||
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"NEW: Ukraine has NOT been invited to Ukraine peace talks. Zelenskyy to NBC just now: “I will never accept any decisions between United States & Russia about Ukraine. Never.” Clear message. Trump has NO mandate. My take on this is that Trump is going to agree with Putin on terms and present this to Ukraine and Europe on the basis of take it or leave it The leave it option means he pulls everything out of both Ukraine and Europe and increases tariffs against Europe. He will effectively force Europe into capitulation. Then what..." News for Zelenskyy if he refuses; without USA military support the Ukraine will not be able to fight on. Europe will have a few meetings and handshakes but not commit enough. Trump and Putin have likely got this in the bag What at sad outcome for Ukraine. | |||
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"NEW: Ukraine has NOT been invited to Ukraine peace talks. Zelenskyy to NBC just now: “I will never accept any decisions between United States & Russia about Ukraine. Never.” Clear message. Trump has NO mandate. My take on this is that Trump is going to agree with Putin on terms and present this to Ukraine and Europe on the basis of take it or leave it The leave it option means he pulls everything out of both Ukraine and Europe and increases tariffs against Europe. He will effectively force Europe into capitulation. Then what..." When you say Trump will pull everything out of Europe do you think Trump will pull out of Mildonhall and Lakenheath. And everything that goes with it. | |||
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"NEW: Ukraine has NOT been invited to Ukraine peace talks. Zelenskyy to NBC just now: “I will never accept any decisions between United States & Russia about Ukraine. Never.” Clear message. Trump has NO mandate. My take on this is that Trump is going to agree with Putin on terms and present this to Ukraine and Europe on the basis of take it or leave it The leave it option means he pulls everything out of both Ukraine and Europe and increases tariffs against Europe. He will effectively force Europe into capitulation. Then what... News for Zelenskyy if he refuses; without USA military support the Ukraine will not be able to fight on. Europe will have a few meetings and handshakes but not commit enough. Trump and Putin have likely got this in the bag What at sad outcome for Ukraine. " Was always going to happen. Ukraine was lukewarm on this war but allowed themselves to be cajoled or bullied into it by Biden and Johnson. Ultimately Zelensky has to take the blame. It’s sad that so many people have died for nothing. | |||
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"NEW: Ukraine has NOT been invited to Ukraine peace talks. Zelenskyy to NBC just now: “I will never accept any decisions between United States & Russia about Ukraine. Never.” Clear message. Trump has NO mandate. My take on this is that Trump is going to agree with Putin on terms and present this to Ukraine and Europe on the basis of take it or leave it The leave it option means he pulls everything out of both Ukraine and Europe and increases tariffs against Europe. He will effectively force Europe into capitulation. Then what... News for Zelenskyy if he refuses; without USA military support the Ukraine will not be able to fight on. Europe will have a few meetings and handshakes but not commit enough. Trump and Putin have likely got this in the bag What at sad outcome for Ukraine. Was always going to happen. Ukraine was lukewarm on this war but allowed themselves to be cajoled or bullied into it by Biden and Johnson. Ultimately Zelensky has to take the blame. It’s sad that so many people have died for nothing." That seems to be the point so many are missing, approx 1m dead Ukrainians that didn't have to die. If they hold elections in Ukraine the winner might be happy to accept what ever peacedeal is done between the Americans and Russians | |||
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"According to the Telegraph a former Trump national security adviser has accused European countries of “having a temper tantrum” over not being invited to the Ukraine talks, and said they are suffering from “FOMO”. It does feel a bit like my neighbour has organised a big party and not invited me. So I organise my own party the same night and invite three people, and then spend the whole night looking out of the window to see what’s happening at the big party next door. " The glaringly obvious thing that is unfolding right before our eyes, is European countries running headlong into exactly the position Trump wants them in. They are promising to put troops in place as peacekeepers post any deal, and spend more on defence. Job done, next. | |||
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"According to the Telegraph a former Trump national security adviser has accused European countries of “having a temper tantrum” over not being invited to the Ukraine talks, and said they are suffering from “FOMO”. It does feel a bit like my neighbour has organised a big party and not invited me. So I organise my own party the same night and invite three people, and then spend the whole night looking out of the window to see what’s happening at the big party next door. The glaringly obvious thing that is unfolding right before our eyes, is European countries running headlong into exactly the position Trump wants them in. They are promising to put troops in place as peacekeepers post any deal, and spend more on defence. Job done, next. " Trump did not want Ukrain to join NATO. Why would he except NATO policing his borders He likes having a week Neighbour to bully he will not want a referee.. | |||
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"Contrary to what trump would have you believe… the uk and eu have actually spent more militarily on Ukraine than the US has (it’s about 55/45 European to US spending) Trump basically wants Russia’s natural and rare earth mineral deposits… and he is also going to try a use this to start separating the US from NATO…. It seem at this point a lot of Ukraine giving up lots and Russia giving up nothing…" of course ukraine are going to give up lots and russia give up nothing,theoretical in the strongest position always dictates the terms,I meen ukraine could ignore whatever is agreed but do they really want to carry on till the last ukrainian?if they do then have at it but they will be carrying on by themselves because if they stop getting us funding europe are not going to want to carry the can for to long | |||
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"Contrary to what trump would have you believe… the uk and eu have actually spent more militarily on Ukraine than the US has (it’s about 55/45 European to US spending) Trump basically wants Russia’s natural and rare earth mineral deposits… and he is also going to try a use this to start separating the US from NATO…. It seem at this point a lot of Ukraine giving up lots and Russia giving up nothing…" Ukraine have run up a bill of approx $120billion with the US alone, Zelensky is keen to use rare minerals as payment. Ukraine were never going to win this war and in my opinion should have come to the table 18 months ago. They would not have gained any more or less than they have now in terms of land, but they would have 10's of thousands of Ukrainian men still alive. | |||
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"Contrary to what trump would have you believe… the uk and eu have actually spent more militarily on Ukraine than the US has (it’s about 55/45 European to US spending) Trump basically wants Russia’s natural and rare earth mineral deposits… and he is also going to try a use this to start separating the US from NATO…. It seem at this point a lot of Ukraine giving up lots and Russia giving up nothing… Ukraine have run up a bill of approx $120billion with the US alone, Zelensky is keen to use rare minerals as payment. Ukraine were never going to win this war and in my opinion should have come to the table 18 months ago. They would not have gained any more or less than they have now in terms of land, but they would have 10's of thousands of Ukrainian men still alive." So if Russia do keep all the land they have taken what is to stop them next time. I'm probably wrong but it's like catching a crook and letting them keep what they have got. | |||
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"Contrary to what trump would have you believe… the uk and eu have actually spent more militarily on Ukraine than the US has (it’s about 55/45 European to US spending) Trump basically wants Russia’s natural and rare earth mineral deposits… and he is also going to try a use this to start separating the US from NATO…. It seem at this point a lot of Ukraine giving up lots and Russia giving up nothing… Ukraine have run up a bill of approx $120billion with the US alone, Zelensky is keen to use rare minerals as payment." What are the current seized Russian foreign currency assets balances. It was reported at $630bn a couple of years ago, I saw $330bn mentioned recently. Some was released to Ukraine by USA for non military use | |||
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"Contrary to what trump would have you believe… the uk and eu have actually spent more militarily on Ukraine than the US has (it’s about 55/45 European to US spending) Trump basically wants Russia’s natural and rare earth mineral deposits… and he is also going to try a use this to start separating the US from NATO…. It seem at this point a lot of Ukraine giving up lots and Russia giving up nothing… Ukraine have run up a bill of approx $120billion with the US alone, Zelensky is keen to use rare minerals as payment. Ukraine were never going to win this war and in my opinion should have come to the table 18 months ago. They would not have gained any more or less than they have now in terms of land, but they would have 10's of thousands of Ukrainian men still alive. So if Russia do keep all the land they have taken what is to stop them next time. I'm probably wrong but it's like catching a crook and letting them keep what they have got. " It looks like Europe have been caught sleeping on the job, become complacent and NATO is pretty useless when it comes to new members. Putin is no fool and knew what buttons to press, the challenge now is to workout how to protect European borders from Putin going forward. From the little I know about US ambition, it seems as though they would walk away from NATO. This is good news for Ukraine, it removes a blocker to NATO, the next step would then to agree the new borders with Russia and not dispute them. At that point European peace keepers protect the border while Ukraine apply to join NATO, the only thing that could stop this happening would be another member. If it was made clear that any country stopping Ukraine joining NATO was putting European security at risk, I think it could fly. Any future attempt by Putin or his successor would be met by a NATO response and be Europes problem to resolve. That is the perfect outcome from here, in my opinion. | |||
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"Contrary to what trump would have you believe… the uk and eu have actually spent more militarily on Ukraine than the US has (it’s about 55/45 European to US spending) Trump basically wants Russia’s natural and rare earth mineral deposits… and he is also going to try a use this to start separating the US from NATO…. It seem at this point a lot of Ukraine giving up lots and Russia giving up nothing… Ukraine have run up a bill of approx $120billion with the US alone, Zelensky is keen to use rare minerals as payment. Ukraine were never going to win this war and in my opinion should have come to the table 18 months ago. They would not have gained any more or less than they have now in terms of land, but they would have 10's of thousands of Ukrainian men still alive. So if Russia do keep all the land they have taken what is to stop them next time. I'm probably wrong but it's like catching a crook and letting them keep what they have got. " Russia will unequivocally keep the Donbas. No USA nato bases in Ukraine Some relaxation of sanctions USA likely to distance itself from EU No more USA weapons In exchange for no further Russian advancement Return of the reported 20,000 children held by Russia to Ukraine. Totally inequitable for Ukraine but Trump holds all the aces | |||
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"Contrary to what trump would have you believe… the uk and eu have actually spent more militarily on Ukraine than the US has (it’s about 55/45 European to US spending) Trump basically wants Russia’s natural and rare earth mineral deposits… and he is also going to try a use this to start separating the US from NATO…. It seem at this point a lot of Ukraine giving up lots and Russia giving up nothing… Ukraine have run up a bill of approx $120billion with the US alone, Zelensky is keen to use rare minerals as payment. What are the current seized Russian foreign currency assets balances. It was reported at $630bn a couple of years ago, I saw $330bn mentioned recently. Some was released to Ukraine by USA for non military use " $5 billion is held by the US, I believe. The EU holds most of it, there is a graph on the BBC website that shows the % ratio of support given by each country, the US leads that with nearly 43%. | |||
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"Contrary to what trump would have you believe… the uk and eu have actually spent more militarily on Ukraine than the US has (it’s about 55/45 European to US spending) Trump basically wants Russia’s natural and rare earth mineral deposits… and he is also going to try a use this to start separating the US from NATO…. It seem at this point a lot of Ukraine giving up lots and Russia giving up nothing… Ukraine have run up a bill of approx $120billion with the US alone, Zelensky is keen to use rare minerals as payment. Ukraine were never going to win this war and in my opinion should have come to the table 18 months ago. They would not have gained any more or less than they have now in terms of land, but they would have 10's of thousands of Ukrainian men still alive. So if Russia do keep all the land they have taken what is to stop them next time. I'm probably wrong but it's like catching a crook and letting them keep what they have got. " First it’s Ukraine.. then who’s next? Moldova? The Baltic states? Remember the man believes in a “greater Russia “ take all the bits back they lost! So what the deterrent if you reward him … remember who attacked who! | |||
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"Contrary to what trump would have you believe… the uk and eu have actually spent more militarily on Ukraine than the US has (it’s about 55/45 European to US spending) Trump basically wants Russia’s natural and rare earth mineral deposits… and he is also going to try a use this to start separating the US from NATO…. It seem at this point a lot of Ukraine giving up lots and Russia giving up nothing… Ukraine have run up a bill of approx $120billion with the US alone, Zelensky is keen to use rare minerals as payment. Ukraine were never going to win this war and in my opinion should have come to the table 18 months ago. They would not have gained any more or less than they have now in terms of land, but they would have 10's of thousands of Ukrainian men still alive. So if Russia do keep all the land they have taken what is to stop them next time. I'm probably wrong but it's like catching a crook and letting them keep what they have got. First it’s Ukraine.. then who’s next? Moldova? The Baltic states? Remember the man believes in a “greater Russia “ take all the bits back they lost! So what the deterrent if you reward him … remember who attacked who! " I think that is the wrong way to look at this, rewarding it is not. It has happened and we need to accept that or the only real alternative is to take the land back, which is not going to happen. As I mention a few posts up, Europe needs to learn and move quickly. | |||
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"Contrary to what trump would have you believe… the uk and eu have actually spent more militarily on Ukraine than the US has (it’s about 55/45 European to US spending) Trump basically wants Russia’s natural and rare earth mineral deposits… and he is also going to try a use this to start separating the US from NATO…. It seem at this point a lot of Ukraine giving up lots and Russia giving up nothing… Ukraine have run up a bill of approx $120billion with the US alone, Zelensky is keen to use rare minerals as payment. Ukraine were never going to win this war and in my opinion should have come to the table 18 months ago. They would not have gained any more or less than they have now in terms of land, but they would have 10's of thousands of Ukrainian men still alive. So if Russia do keep all the land they have taken what is to stop them next time. I'm probably wrong but it's like catching a crook and letting them keep what they have got. First it’s Ukraine.. then who’s next? Moldova? The Baltic states? Remember the man believes in a “greater Russia “ take all the bits back they lost! So what the deterrent if you reward him … remember who attacked who! I think that is the wrong way to look at this, rewarding it is not. It has happened and we need to accept that or the only real alternative is to take the land back, which is not going to happen. As I mention a few posts up, Europe needs to learn and move quickly. " I usually agree with you but in this case, what's stopping Ukraine taking back their territory using conventional weapons and their own manpower? | |||
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"Contrary to what trump would have you believe… the uk and eu have actually spent more militarily on Ukraine than the US has (it’s about 55/45 European to US spending) Trump basically wants Russia’s natural and rare earth mineral deposits… and he is also going to try a use this to start separating the US from NATO…. It seem at this point a lot of Ukraine giving up lots and Russia giving up nothing… Ukraine have run up a bill of approx $120billion with the US alone, Zelensky is keen to use rare minerals as payment. Ukraine were never going to win this war and in my opinion should have come to the table 18 months ago. They would not have gained any more or less than they have now in terms of land, but they would have 10's of thousands of Ukrainian men still alive. So if Russia do keep all the land they have taken what is to stop them next time. I'm probably wrong but it's like catching a crook and letting them keep what they have got. First it’s Ukraine.. then who’s next? Moldova? The Baltic states? Remember the man believes in a “greater Russia “ take all the bits back they lost! So what the deterrent if you reward him … remember who attacked who! I think that is the wrong way to look at this, rewarding it is not. It has happened and we need to accept that or the only real alternative is to take the land back, which is not going to happen. As I mention a few posts up, Europe needs to learn and move quickly. I usually agree with you but in this case, what's stopping Ukraine taking back their territory using conventional weapons and their own manpower?" What weapons? Most of what they are using is donated and useless without ammunition, they could need another 3 years supply of ammunition. If you think they could take back all the land in 3 years. Don't forget defence is easier then attack. | |||
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"Contrary to what trump would have you believe… the uk and eu have actually spent more militarily on Ukraine than the US has (it’s about 55/45 European to US spending) Trump basically wants Russia’s natural and rare earth mineral deposits… and he is also going to try a use this to start separating the US from NATO…. It seem at this point a lot of Ukraine giving up lots and Russia giving up nothing… Ukraine have run up a bill of approx $120billion with the US alone, Zelensky is keen to use rare minerals as payment. Ukraine were never going to win this war and in my opinion should have come to the table 18 months ago. They would not have gained any more or less than they have now in terms of land, but they would have 10's of thousands of Ukrainian men still alive. So if Russia do keep all the land they have taken what is to stop them next time. I'm probably wrong but it's like catching a crook and letting them keep what they have got. First it’s Ukraine.. then who’s next? Moldova? The Baltic states? Remember the man believes in a “greater Russia “ take all the bits back they lost! So what the deterrent if you reward him … remember who attacked who! I think that is the wrong way to look at this, rewarding it is not. It has happened and we need to accept that or the only real alternative is to take the land back, which is not going to happen. As I mention a few posts up, Europe needs to learn and move quickly. I usually agree with you but in this case, what's stopping Ukraine taking back their territory using conventional weapons and their own manpower? What weapons? Most of what they are using is donated and useless without ammunition, they could need another 3 years supply of ammunition. If you think they could take back all the land in 3 years. Don't forget defence is easier then attack." Weapons provided by the European countries that don't want to get too involved | |||
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"Contrary to what trump would have you believe… the uk and eu have actually spent more militarily on Ukraine than the US has (it’s about 55/45 European to US spending) Trump basically wants Russia’s natural and rare earth mineral deposits… and he is also going to try a use this to start separating the US from NATO…. It seem at this point a lot of Ukraine giving up lots and Russia giving up nothing… Ukraine have run up a bill of approx $120billion with the US alone, Zelensky is keen to use rare minerals as payment. Ukraine were never going to win this war and in my opinion should have come to the table 18 months ago. They would not have gained any more or less than they have now in terms of land, but they would have 10's of thousands of Ukrainian men still alive. So if Russia do keep all the land they have taken what is to stop them next time. I'm probably wrong but it's like catching a crook and letting them keep what they have got. First it’s Ukraine.. then who’s next? Moldova? The Baltic states? Remember the man believes in a “greater Russia “ take all the bits back they lost! So what the deterrent if you reward him … remember who attacked who! I think that is the wrong way to look at this, rewarding it is not. It has happened and we need to accept that or the only real alternative is to take the land back, which is not going to happen. As I mention a few posts up, Europe needs to learn and move quickly. I usually agree with you but in this case, what's stopping Ukraine taking back their territory using conventional weapons and their own manpower? What weapons? Most of what they are using is donated and useless without ammunition, they could need another 3 years supply of ammunition. If you think they could take back all the land in 3 years. Don't forget defence is easier then attack. Weapons provided by the European countries that don't want to get too involved " If EU supply Ukrain at the same rate it would be 50% less then Ukrane where getting. And I don't think the EU can manufacture anymore quicker. Even the US had to up production stocks are depleted right across Europe. | |||
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"Contrary to what trump would have you believe… the uk and eu have actually spent more militarily on Ukraine than the US has (it’s about 55/45 European to US spending) Trump basically wants Russia’s natural and rare earth mineral deposits… and he is also going to try a use this to start separating the US from NATO…. It seem at this point a lot of Ukraine giving up lots and Russia giving up nothing… Ukraine have run up a bill of approx $120billion with the US alone, Zelensky is keen to use rare minerals as payment. Ukraine were never going to win this war and in my opinion should have come to the table 18 months ago. They would not have gained any more or less than they have now in terms of land, but they would have 10's of thousands of Ukrainian men still alive. So if Russia do keep all the land they have taken what is to stop them next time. I'm probably wrong but it's like catching a crook and letting them keep what they have got. First it’s Ukraine.. then who’s next? Moldova? The Baltic states? Remember the man believes in a “greater Russia “ take all the bits back they lost! So what the deterrent if you reward him … remember who attacked who! I think that is the wrong way to look at this, rewarding it is not. It has happened and we need to accept that or the only real alternative is to take the land back, which is not going to happen. As I mention a few posts up, Europe needs to learn and move quickly. I usually agree with you but in this case, what's stopping Ukraine taking back their territory using conventional weapons and their own manpower? What weapons? Most of what they are using is donated and useless without ammunition, they could need another 3 years supply of ammunition. If you think they could take back all the land in 3 years. Don't forget defence is easier then attack. Weapons provided by the European countries that don't want to get too involved If EU supply Ukrain at the same rate it would be 50% less then Ukrane where getting. And I don't think the EU can manufacture anymore quicker. Even the US had to up production stocks are depleted right across Europe. " The European countries are in shit | |||
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"Contrary to what trump would have you believe… the uk and eu have actually spent more militarily on Ukraine than the US has (it’s about 55/45 European to US spending) Trump basically wants Russia’s natural and rare earth mineral deposits… and he is also going to try a use this to start separating the US from NATO…. It seem at this point a lot of Ukraine giving up lots and Russia giving up nothing… Ukraine have run up a bill of approx $120billion with the US alone, Zelensky is keen to use rare minerals as payment. Ukraine were never going to win this war and in my opinion should have come to the table 18 months ago. They would not have gained any more or less than they have now in terms of land, but they would have 10's of thousands of Ukrainian men still alive. So if Russia do keep all the land they have taken what is to stop them next time. I'm probably wrong but it's like catching a crook and letting them keep what they have got. First it’s Ukraine.. then who’s next? Moldova? The Baltic states? Remember the man believes in a “greater Russia “ take all the bits back they lost! So what the deterrent if you reward him … remember who attacked who! I think that is the wrong way to look at this, rewarding it is not. It has happened and we need to accept that or the only real alternative is to take the land back, which is not going to happen. As I mention a few posts up, Europe needs to learn and move quickly. I usually agree with you but in this case, what's stopping Ukraine taking back their territory using conventional weapons and their own manpower?" The problem Ukraine have is they are losing resource and land daily, and are in deep debt financially and with boots on th ground. 3 options exist as. I see it: 1) European countries take a firmer stance by putting troops into the combat zone and going to a potential war with Russia. 2) Stop arming Ukraine forcing them to accept they can't continue on the path they are on, bringing hostilities to a close with a loss of land and use political and diplomatic strength to bring Ukraine into NATO. 3) Ukraine go alone, it would turn into the usual gorilla warfare tactics that last for a decade or more. Option 1 is not an option in my opinion. Option 2 is a solution but needs smart leadership, something lacking in the EU. Option 3 is not likely to achieve results until Putin's demise. How option 2 could work hypothetically; as posted above. US walk away from NATO. This is good news for Ukraine, it removes a blocker to NATO, the next step would then to agree the new borders with Russia and not dispute them. This removes the NATO rule block of new members not being in dispute of land borders. At that point European peace keepers protect the border while Ukraine apply to join NATO, the only thing that could stop this happening would be another member. If it was made clear that any country stopping Ukraine joining NATO was putting European security at risk, I think it could fly. Any future attempt by Putin or his successor would be met by a NATO response and be Europes problem to resolve. Obviously these are my personal considered opinions and I could be a million miles away from the actual resolution or options, such is the complexity of this. More than happy to be challenged  | |||
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"Contrary to what trump would have you believe… the uk and eu have actually spent more militarily on Ukraine than the US has (it’s about 55/45 European to US spending) Trump basically wants Russia’s natural and rare earth mineral deposits… and he is also going to try a use this to start separating the US from NATO…. It seem at this point a lot of Ukraine giving up lots and Russia giving up nothing… Ukraine have run up a bill of approx $120billion with the US alone, Zelensky is keen to use rare minerals as payment. Ukraine were never going to win this war and in my opinion should have come to the table 18 months ago. They would not have gained any more or less than they have now in terms of land, but they would have 10's of thousands of Ukrainian men still alive. So if Russia do keep all the land they have taken what is to stop them next time. I'm probably wrong but it's like catching a crook and letting them keep what they have got. First it’s Ukraine.. then who’s next? Moldova? The Baltic states? Remember the man believes in a “greater Russia “ take all the bits back they lost! So what the deterrent if you reward him … remember who attacked who! I think that is the wrong way to look at this, rewarding it is not. It has happened and we need to accept that or the only real alternative is to take the land back, which is not going to happen. As I mention a few posts up, Europe needs to learn and move quickly. I usually agree with you but in this case, what's stopping Ukraine taking back their territory using conventional weapons and their own manpower? What weapons? Most of what they are using is donated and useless without ammunition, they could need another 3 years supply of ammunition. If you think they could take back all the land in 3 years. Don't forget defence is easier then attack. Weapons provided by the European countries that don't want to get too involved If EU supply Ukrain at the same rate it would be 50% less then Ukrane where getting. And I don't think the EU can manufacture anymore quicker. Even the US had to up production stocks are depleted right across Europe. " The bbc news last night said 42.7% of Ukraine’s military support has been from USA. And as you say they had to increase production. On a report a year ago one armaments factory said they could produce 9000 155mm shells a month while Russia was firing 6000 a day. | |||
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"Contrary to what trump would have you believe… the uk and eu have actually spent more militarily on Ukraine than the US has (it’s about 55/45 European to US spending) Trump basically wants Russia’s natural and rare earth mineral deposits… and he is also going to try a use this to start separating the US from NATO…. It seem at this point a lot of Ukraine giving up lots and Russia giving up nothing… Ukraine have run up a bill of approx $120billion with the US alone, Zelensky is keen to use rare minerals as payment. Ukraine were never going to win this war and in my opinion should have come to the table 18 months ago. They would not have gained any more or less than they have now in terms of land, but they would have 10's of thousands of Ukrainian men still alive. So if Russia do keep all the land they have taken what is to stop them next time. I'm probably wrong but it's like catching a crook and letting them keep what they have got. First it’s Ukraine.. then who’s next? Moldova? The Baltic states? Remember the man believes in a “greater Russia “ take all the bits back they lost! So what the deterrent if you reward him … remember who attacked who! I think that is the wrong way to look at this, rewarding it is not. It has happened and we need to accept that or the only real alternative is to take the land back, which is not going to happen. As I mention a few posts up, Europe needs to learn and move quickly. I usually agree with you but in this case, what's stopping Ukraine taking back their territory using conventional weapons and their own manpower? What weapons? Most of what they are using is donated and useless without ammunition, they could need another 3 years supply of ammunition. If you think they could take back all the land in 3 years. Don't forget defence is easier then attack. Weapons provided by the European countries that don't want to get too involved If EU supply Ukrain at the same rate it would be 50% less then Ukrane where getting. And I don't think the EU can manufacture anymore quicker. Even the US had to up production stocks are depleted right across Europe. The bbc news last night said 42.7% of Ukraine’s military support has been from USA. And as you say they had to increase production. On a report a year ago one armaments factory said they could produce 9000 155mm shells a month while Russia was firing 6000 a day. " And a 155mm shell costs about £500, so yes £3 million a day just in shells. An anti tank missile is like £10,000 each.a Javerlin missile is £150,000+ each. A round for an SLR rifle 7.25mm is about £5 each. | |||
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"So looks like the UK and EU aren’t being invited to the Ukraine peace talks. So much for Labour’s “global leadership”. The EU seems to be demanding a seat at the table, like a bunch of sad ugly losers denied an invite to the cool kids’ party. They’ll probably turn up anyway and hang around outside. Humiliating." What a silly comment…… trump / putin talks have absolutely nothing to do with labour, the uk or europe. | |||
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"Looks like another abject humiliation for Starmer in Europe. Not even Scholz, the man who has destroyed the German economy, is stupid enough to put “boots on the ground” in Ukraine." Europe is not getting it, neither is Starmer. They are all three years too late. Lavrov will negotiate a deal for Russia and Trump will stop Ukrainian weapons. Take it or leave it. | |||
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"Looks like another abject humiliation for Starmer in Europe. Not even Scholz, the man who has destroyed the German economy, is stupid enough to put “boots on the ground” in Ukraine. Europe is not getting it, neither is Starmer. They are all three years too late. Lavrov will negotiate a deal for Russia and Trump will stop Ukrainian weapons. Take it or leave it. " Don't know about the deal but Yes I do think the US will pull the plug and sooner than is expected. | |||
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"I'm no political analyst but I think it's irrelevant who attends peace talks as long as a peaceful resolution can be brought about and an end to the death and destruction of Ukrainians." This. | |||
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"Looks like another abject humiliation for Starmer in Europe. Not even Scholz, the man who has destroyed the German economy, is stupid enough to put “boots on the ground” in Ukraine." Scholz probably isn’t ping to have a say shortly. | |||
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"Russian Foreign Minister Sergei Lavrov has said his country won't accept peacekeeping forces from Nato countries in Ukraine under any peace deal" But it's ok for them to have North Korean troops in Russia? Double standards! | |||
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"Russian Foreign Minister Sergei Lavrov has said his country won't accept peacekeeping forces from Nato countries in Ukraine under any peace deal" Russia reminds me of the black knight in Monty Pythons Holy Grail. | |||
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"I suspect Putin wants back all that was once USSR and then he might want more, who is big enough to stop him." NATO.. | |||
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"Russian Foreign Minister Sergei Lavrov has said his country won't accept peacekeeping forces from Nato countries in Ukraine under any peace deal" This morning I read that Russia was not opposed to Ukraine joining the EU at some point. I guess they don't have any fears of the EU like they do NATO | |||
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"Either Europe grows a pair or this goes very very badly for Ukraine now and again in the future " | |||
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"I suspect Putin wants back all that was once USSR and then he might want more, who is big enough to stop him. NATO.. " I'm starting to think NATO would fall apart with indecision if push came to shove. Ukraine could do worse than create some sort of East Europe Alliance, get Poland, the Baltics and Finland onboard, that would be a fearsome alliance. Putin thrives on exploiting indecision and weakness. A powerful Eastern European bloc / alliance, fully committed to self defence, would make any further expansion ambitions way off limits and close the door on his exploitation European inaction. | |||
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"I suspect Putin wants back all that was once USSR and then he might want more, who is big enough to stop him. NATO.. I'm starting to think NATO would fall apart with indecision if push came to shove. Ukraine could do worse than create some sort of East Europe Alliance, get Poland, the Baltics and Finland onboard, that would be a fearsome alliance. Putin thrives on exploiting indecision and weakness. A powerful Eastern European bloc / alliance, fully committed to self defence, would make any further expansion ambitions way off limits and close the door on his exploitation European inaction. " There seem to all sorts of sub-alliances forming across Europe on an almost daily basis. This probably explains why the US has decided to ignore them. They couldn’t organise the proverbial piss-up. Telegraph reports that Macron is trying to set himself up as “Europe’s strong man” lol. | |||
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"I suspect Putin wants back all that was once USSR and then he might want more, who is big enough to stop him. NATO.. I'm starting to think NATO would fall apart with indecision if push came to shove. Ukraine could do worse than create some sort of East Europe Alliance, get Poland, the Baltics and Finland onboard, that would be a fearsome alliance. Putin thrives on exploiting indecision and weakness. A powerful Eastern European bloc / alliance, fully committed to self defence, would make any further expansion ambitions way off limits and close the door on his exploitation European inaction. There seem to all sorts of sub-alliances forming across Europe on an almost daily basis. This probably explains why the US has decided to ignore them. They couldn’t organise the proverbial piss-up. Telegraph reports that Macron is trying to set himself up as “Europe’s strong man” lol." Europe feels like extreme proportional representation, with Macron trying to herd cats as a mouse. | |||
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