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"The death penalty is never the answer. " What is the answer then? | |||
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"the police should have shot the Southport killer and Lee Rigbys killers at the time " The police did shoot (though not fatally) Lee Rigby's killers at the time as both killers charged at them whilst brandishing weapons. The Southport killer was apprehended at the scene after complying with orders from armed police officers. The police are there to uphold the law which includes using lethal force if necessary; they are not executioners. | |||
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"There are two reasons we abolished the death penalty... 1) Although it satisfies the lust for revenge (a perfectly normal human reaction) it does not act as a deterrent. If it was reinstated today, as proven by data from many countries, murder rates do not decline. 2) The process WILL at some point go wrong. Not could, not might but WILL fail catastrophically and a miscarriage of justice WILL result in an innocent person(s) being killed. Of course people may feel those terms above are an acceptable 'risk' and that is their opinion they are entitled to. But I would urge people to just keep in mind it could be you or your loved one(s) that fall victim to a miscarriage of justice. One that, at best, can only be corrected with a posthumous pardon. " Exactly this. I would prefer to live in an imperfect world than to die in someone else's vision of a perfect one. | |||
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"The cost of trials and long term imprisonment is a huge burden to tax payer the police should have shot the Southport killer and Lee Rigbys killers at the time We need the death penalty !" Everyone, no matter what they stand accused of has the right to a fair trial. The way you suggest things, it would mean the death penalty could be issued without trial and therefore without proof of guilt. You don’t want to go there. The killers of Lee Rigby were shot, a moment that was played during their trials and was captured on cctv. Furthermore Lees family have been very outspoken that his name is not used to spread division or hate. | |||
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"There are two reasons we abolished the death penalty... 1) Although it satisfies the lust for revenge (a perfectly normal human reaction) it does not act as a deterrent. If it was reinstated today, as proven by data from many countries, murder rates do not decline. 2) The process WILL at some point go wrong. Not could, not might but WILL fail catastrophically and a miscarriage of justice WILL result in an innocent person(s) being killed. Of course people may feel those terms above are an acceptable 'risk' and that is their opinion they are entitled to. But I would urge people to just keep in mind it could be you or your loved one(s) that fall victim to a miscarriage of justice. One that, at best, can only be corrected with a posthumous pardon. " I am not supportive of death penalty because of reason (2) But reason (1) is not a valid argument. We do not have any data of the impact of death penalty as a deterrent because no country has actually done a proper experiment with control-test population. I could easily make a counter argument. Countries with lowest homicide rates in the world have death penalty - Singapore, Japan, Qatar, Bahrain. | |||
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" But reason (1) is not a valid argument. We do not have any data of the impact of death penalty as a deterrent because no country has actually done a proper experiment with control-test population. I could easily make a counter argument. Countries with lowest homicide rates in the world have death penalty - Singapore, Japan, Qatar, Bahrain." You could argue the USA has. Capital punishment is legal in 27 of the 50 states. States where the death penalty is legal have - on average - a higher homicide rate than states that do not. Louisiana - which has the death penalty - has the highest (as of 2022) rate at 16.1 homicides per 100,000 people. The earliest US state to abolish the death penalty - Rhode Island - also has the lowest homicide rate at 1.5 per 100,000 people (also as of 2022). The average homicide rate in the USA as a whole is 5.763 per 100,000 people (2023). In England & Wales it is 1.148 per 100,000 people (2021). | |||
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"There are two reasons we abolished the death penalty... 1) Although it satisfies the lust for revenge (a perfectly normal human reaction) it does not act as a deterrent. If it was reinstated today, as proven by data from many countries, murder rates do not decline. 2) The process WILL at some point go wrong. Not could, not might but WILL fail catastrophically and a miscarriage of justice WILL result in an innocent person(s) being killed. Of course people may feel those terms above are an acceptable 'risk' and that is their opinion they are entitled to. But I would urge people to just keep in mind it could be you or your loved one(s) that fall victim to a miscarriage of justice. One that, at best, can only be corrected with a posthumous pardon. I am not supportive of death penalty because of reason (2) But reason (1) is not a valid argument. We do not have any data of the impact of death penalty as a deterrent because no country has actually done a proper experiment with control-test population. I could easily make a counter argument. Countries with lowest homicide rates in the world have death penalty - Singapore, Japan, Qatar, Bahrain." I completely understand the very valid point you are making but to say we have no data is simply not correct. The USA alone with only certain States still using the death penalty there has been extensive research. Also institutions such as Amnesty International to name but one have instigated and published many reports on exhaustive studies. The crux of the matter is there are other factors as to a country's murder rate that can range from socio-economic to religious beliefs to population sizes even. So - yes - my first point is a complex one (I was trying to keep it brief!) but the one fact that is agreed upon is the desire for a world where all individuals are safe from being murdered. How we achieve that, if ever, we are still not sure. | |||
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" But reason (1) is not a valid argument. We do not have any data of the impact of death penalty as a deterrent because no country has actually done a proper experiment with control-test population. I could easily make a counter argument. Countries with lowest homicide rates in the world have death penalty - Singapore, Japan, Qatar, Bahrain. You could argue the USA has. Capital punishment is legal in 27 of the 50 states. States where the death penalty is legal have - on average - a higher homicide rate than states that do not. Louisiana - which has the death penalty - has the highest (as of 2022) rate at 16.1 homicides per 100,000 people. The earliest US state to abolish the death penalty - Rhode Island - also has the lowest homicide rate at 1.5 per 100,000 people (also as of 2022). The average homicide rate in the USA as a whole is 5.763 per 100,000 people (2023). In England & Wales it is 1.148 per 100,000 people (2021). " Cause and effect. It could be argued that areas with the highest homicide rate and penetration of arnement use the death penalty. | |||
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"There are two reasons we abolished the death penalty... 1) Although it satisfies the lust for revenge (a perfectly normal human reaction) it does not act as a deterrent. If it was reinstated today, as proven by data from many countries, murder rates do not decline. 2) The process WILL at some point go wrong. Not could, not might but WILL fail catastrophically and a miscarriage of justice WILL result in an innocent person(s) being killed. Of course people may feel those terms above are an acceptable 'risk' and that is their opinion they are entitled to. But I would urge people to just keep in mind it could be you or your loved one(s) that fall victim to a miscarriage of justice. One that, at best, can only be corrected with a posthumous pardon. " 1) I wouldn't say it's for revenge, more that murderers have no place in society, ever. 2) The process goes wrong all the time, life is 14 years, how is that fair. I dont believe we have the capability to always get it right, for the death sentence to be reinstated. So many are not prosecuted on technicalities. But all offenders who choose to take life, should never be part of society again. | |||
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"The topic of the death penalty in general is an interesting one. However, may I remind the OP and those calling for the execution of the defendant who pleaded guilty to the crimes in Southport is 17 years old age. Therefore, if the death penalty was reintroduced he would, being under 18 years of age, be exempt anyway. " He was 17 at the time of the incident, turned 18 the following week, so was an adult at the time of the trial. However, I don't agree with the death penalty, Despite advances in science to assist with evidence, miscarriages of justice can still happen. Added to which, taking a life does not do anything to repair the original offence. | |||
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"There are two reasons we abolished the death penalty... 1) Although it satisfies the lust for revenge (a perfectly normal human reaction) it does not act as a deterrent. If it was reinstated today, as proven by data from many countries, murder rates do not decline. 2) The process WILL at some point go wrong. Not could, not might but WILL fail catastrophically and a miscarriage of justice WILL result in an innocent person(s) being killed. Of course people may feel those terms above are an acceptable 'risk' and that is their opinion they are entitled to. But I would urge people to just keep in mind it could be you or your loved one(s) that fall victim to a miscarriage of justice. One that, at best, can only be corrected with a posthumous pardon. 1) I wouldn't say it's for revenge, more that murderers have no place in society, ever. 2) The process goes wrong all the time, life is 14 years, how is that fair. I dont believe we have the capability to always get it right, for the death sentence to be reinstated. So many are not prosecuted on technicalities. But all offenders who choose to take life, should never be part of society again." Tough one this what about if they killed in self defense? As in a beaten women or man flips after years of abuse and they are being attacked and the only way to stop thenselves being killed is to act? Just poping this out there | |||
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"There are two reasons we abolished the death penalty... 1) Although it satisfies the lust for revenge (a perfectly normal human reaction) it does not act as a deterrent. If it was reinstated today, as proven by data from many countries, murder rates do not decline. 2) The process WILL at some point go wrong. Not could, not might but WILL fail catastrophically and a miscarriage of justice WILL result in an innocent person(s) being killed. Of course people may feel those terms above are an acceptable 'risk' and that is their opinion they are entitled to. But I would urge people to just keep in mind it could be you or your loved one(s) that fall victim to a miscarriage of justice. One that, at best, can only be corrected with a posthumous pardon. 1) I wouldn't say it's for revenge, more that murderers have no place in society, ever. 2) The process goes wrong all the time, life is 14 years, how is that fair. I dont believe we have the capability to always get it right, for the death sentence to be reinstated. So many are not prosecuted on technicalities. But all offenders who choose to take life, should never be part of society again. Tough one this what about if they killed in self defense? As in a beaten women or man flips after years of abuse and they are being attacked and the only way to stop thenselves being killed is to act? Just poping this out there" I thought self defence murders were prosecuted as a lawful killing. Re the abuse killing. Yes. it's still them choosing to take a life. Many choose to take lives in rage/passion, just flipping in the moment  | |||
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"There are two reasons we abolished the death penalty... 1) Although it satisfies the lust for revenge (a perfectly normal human reaction) it does not act as a deterrent. If it was reinstated today, as proven by data from many countries, murder rates do not decline. 2) The process WILL at some point go wrong. Not could, not might but WILL fail catastrophically and a miscarriage of justice WILL result in an innocent person(s) being killed. Of course people may feel those terms above are an acceptable 'risk' and that is their opinion they are entitled to. But I would urge people to just keep in mind it could be you or your loved one(s) that fall victim to a miscarriage of justice. One that, at best, can only be corrected with a posthumous pardon. I am not supportive of death penalty because of reason (2) But reason (1) is not a valid argument. We do not have any data of the impact of death penalty as a deterrent because no country has actually done a proper experiment with control-test population. I could easily make a counter argument. Countries with lowest homicide rates in the world have death penalty - Singapore, Japan, Qatar, Bahrain." As does the country with one of the highest homicide rates, our friends in the US-of-A. | |||
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" But reason (1) is not a valid argument. We do not have any data of the impact of death penalty as a deterrent because no country has actually done a proper experiment with control-test population. I could easily make a counter argument. Countries with lowest homicide rates in the world have death penalty - Singapore, Japan, Qatar, Bahrain. You could argue the USA has. Capital punishment is legal in 27 of the 50 states. States where the death penalty is legal have - on average - a higher homicide rate than states that do not. Louisiana - which has the death penalty - has the highest (as of 2022) rate at 16.1 homicides per 100,000 people. The earliest US state to abolish the death penalty - Rhode Island - also has the lowest homicide rate at 1.5 per 100,000 people (also as of 2022). The average homicide rate in the USA as a whole is 5.763 per 100,000 people (2023). In England & Wales it is 1.148 per 100,000 people (2021). " My point is that such comparisons are pointless because you are not using a proper test population. There are numerous factors which affect homicide rates in each region. Each state/country have different levels of poverty, policing, etc. | |||
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"There are two reasons we abolished the death penalty... 1) Although it satisfies the lust for revenge (a perfectly normal human reaction) it does not act as a deterrent. If it was reinstated today, as proven by data from many countries, murder rates do not decline. 2) The process WILL at some point go wrong. Not could, not might but WILL fail catastrophically and a miscarriage of justice WILL result in an innocent person(s) being killed. Of course people may feel those terms above are an acceptable 'risk' and that is their opinion they are entitled to. But I would urge people to just keep in mind it could be you or your loved one(s) that fall victim to a miscarriage of justice. One that, at best, can only be corrected with a posthumous pardon. I am not supportive of death penalty because of reason (2) But reason (1) is not a valid argument. We do not have any data of the impact of death penalty as a deterrent because no country has actually done a proper experiment with control-test population. I could easily make a counter argument. Countries with lowest homicide rates in the world have death penalty - Singapore, Japan, Qatar, Bahrain. I completely understand the very valid point you are making but to say we have no data is simply not correct. The USA alone with only certain States still using the death penalty there has been extensive research. Also institutions such as Amnesty International to name but one have instigated and published many reports on exhaustive studies. The crux of the matter is there are other factors as to a country's murder rate that can range from socio-economic to religious beliefs to population sizes even. So - yes - my first point is a complex one (I was trying to keep it brief!) but the one fact that is agreed upon is the desire for a world where all individuals are safe from being murdered. How we achieve that, if ever, we are still not sure. " I have come across those studies and none of them have solved this problem of getting a proper test population. As you said, different states in the US have different factors affecting homicide rates. I personally find these studies odd because survival is a fundamental human instinct. You just have to try finding dr&gs in Singapore to see the effect of death penalty. | |||
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"There are two reasons we abolished the death penalty... 1) Although it satisfies the lust for revenge (a perfectly normal human reaction) it does not act as a deterrent. If it was reinstated today, as proven by data from many countries, murder rates do not decline. 2) The process WILL at some point go wrong. Not could, not might but WILL fail catastrophically and a miscarriage of justice WILL result in an innocent person(s) being killed. Of course people may feel those terms above are an acceptable 'risk' and that is their opinion they are entitled to. But I would urge people to just keep in mind it could be you or your loved one(s) that fall victim to a miscarriage of justice. One that, at best, can only be corrected with a posthumous pardon. I am not supportive of death penalty because of reason (2) But reason (1) is not a valid argument. We do not have any data of the impact of death penalty as a deterrent because no country has actually done a proper experiment with control-test population. I could easily make a counter argument. Countries with lowest homicide rates in the world have death penalty - Singapore, Japan, Qatar, Bahrain. As does the country with one of the highest homicide rates, our friends in the US-of-A." Yes and proves my point that these studies are pointless unless they do it with proper test population. Again, I am not supportive of death penalty because the state will make mistakes and we don't want to kill innocent people. But questions around deterrence effects of death penalty don't have clear answers. | |||
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"Derek Bentley and Timothy Evans. Both executed, both innocent." long before DNA testing was available and advanced forensics so this is an argument that doesn't hold any weight today. I'm for it if the circumstances are available to prove that there's no chance of getting the wrong person. For example multiple eye witnesses and indisputable forensic evidence, such as the case in lots of terror incidents. Where it will fail is appeals after appeals claiming to have been groxmed and so on then the apologists step forward. So in principle yes reality it's never going to happen due to the costs involved and the red tape that will tie up case's for years. | |||
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"I ask for advice on getting doors fitted and get warned and thread gets taken down. Talking about death penalty seems fine though. To add my penny worth I think Southport killer is to good for the DP. He needs to suffer everyday in prison not knowing if today will be his last day. Why give him a last meal and tell him when he is going to die. Make him live in fear." Likewise the Sharif case, already the sentence is being appealed for being too short and he's been attacked once. He won't ever see the outside again as people have very long memories and even if he does somehow survive the 40 years inside close to release someone will take him out. | |||
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"I'm always in two minds about a death penalty, but in my mind I can't help thinking if sex attackers have been proven guilty without doubt, that castration with a heavy object may be more of a deterrent than a too short prison sentence. Inhumane maybe but so are they." Absolutely agree with this! | |||
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"No wonder I can’t find any hope. There fucking is NONE. " it's in Pandora's box. Greek myth focuses on ambiguity. It's perfectly compatible with the story, and the ways they wrote these stories, that what it means is that hope is a curse. Hope is what keeps you going when it's futile. I think about that too much. | |||
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"The Internet is so so fascinating. It really does connect us with people we would never ever willingly interact with. " thanks a lot  | |||
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"The Internet is so so fascinating. It really does connect us with people we would never ever willingly interact with. thanks a lot "Love you babe 😉❤️ | |||
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"The Internet is so so fascinating. It really does connect us with people we would never ever willingly interact with. " Absolutely. I think this every day I’m on here. I like it though, love to look inside the minds of others even if it does make me say wtf a lot. | |||
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"The Internet is so so fascinating. It really does connect us with people we would never ever willingly interact with. Absolutely. I think this every day I’m on here. I like it though, love to look inside the minds of others even if it does make me say wtf a lot. " It definitely takes me out of my bubble but honestly I don’t enjoy it much that’s why I take breaks | |||
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"The Internet is so so fascinating. It really does connect us with people we would never ever willingly interact with. Absolutely. I think this every day I’m on here. I like it though, love to look inside the minds of others even if it does make me say wtf a lot. It definitely takes me out of my bubble but honestly I don’t enjoy it much that’s why I take breaks" I think it reduces people's filters and like... I liked people better before they thought spewing bile was acceptable. | |||
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"The Internet is so so fascinating. It really does connect us with people we would never ever willingly interact with. Absolutely. I think this every day I’m on here. I like it though, love to look inside the minds of others even if it does make me say wtf a lot. It definitely takes me out of my bubble but honestly I don’t enjoy it much that’s why I take breaks I think it reduces people's filters and like... I liked people better before they thought spewing bile was acceptable." Oh yes. But it’s made me more cautious around people because the views you read on the internet are the views of people you walk among. People you work with and laugh with in the staff room. Then they’re getting on the internet talking about bring back the death penalty. | |||
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"The Internet is so so fascinating. It really does connect us with people we would never ever willingly interact with. Absolutely. I think this every day I’m on here. I like it though, love to look inside the minds of others even if it does make me say wtf a lot. It definitely takes me out of my bubble but honestly I don’t enjoy it much that’s why I take breaks I think it reduces people's filters and like... I liked people better before they thought spewing bile was acceptable. Oh yes. But it’s made me more cautious around people because the views you read on the internet are the views of people you walk among. People you work with and laugh with in the staff room. Then they’re getting on the internet talking about bring back the death penalty. " The tism is an advantage, because they were the same people who were always doing (redacted) to me, including when I was a kid. I always knew. Sometimes I like to pretend though. | |||
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"The Internet is so so fascinating. It really does connect us with people we would never ever willingly interact with. Absolutely. I think this every day I’m on here. I like it though, love to look inside the minds of others even if it does make me say wtf a lot. It definitely takes me out of my bubble but honestly I don’t enjoy it much that’s why I take breaks I think it reduces people's filters and like... I liked people better before they thought spewing bile was acceptable. Oh yes. But it’s made me more cautious around people because the views you read on the internet are the views of people you walk among. People you work with and laugh with in the staff room. Then they’re getting on the internet talking about bring back the death penalty. " There will be people you walk amongst who agree with it. It’s pretty 50/50 as far as I know. I saw something not long ago saying 60% of the UK would bring it back for terrorism. It’s one of those things that will always divide people. Always. | |||
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"Croc wearers get my vote. " And uggs | |||
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"Croc wearers get my vote. And uggs" It’s a bit of a grey area though, you can’t exactly define an Ugg boot. What if you mistakenly sentence some rigger boot people? It’s just too risky. | |||
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"Croc wearers get my vote. " This changed our minds... | |||
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"No wonder I can’t find any hope. There fucking is NONE. " So people aren't allowed to express an opinion or they are as long as they agree with you?. Just because people want to bring it back they are unethical idiots is what you are saying basically. I'm more concerned about a society that doesn't allow freedom of speech than one that allows the death penalty for very serious crimes. | |||
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"No wonder I can’t find any hope. There fucking is NONE. So people aren't allowed to express an opinion or they are as long as they agree with you?. Just because people want to bring it back they are unethical idiots is what you are saying basically. I'm more concerned about a society that doesn't allow freedom of speech than one that allows the death penalty for very serious crimes. " Freedom of speech includes the freedom to express disgust at people's views. It doesn't mean that knuckledraggers get to be insulated from the fact that people find their views disgusting. | |||
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"No wonder I can’t find any hope. There fucking is NONE. So people aren't allowed to express an opinion or they are as long as they agree with you?. Just because people want to bring it back they are unethical idiots is what you are saying basically. I'm more concerned about a society that doesn't allow freedom of speech than one that allows the death penalty for very serious crimes. " The funniest thing is at no point did I even imply this. This is pure projection I’m not asking fit anyone’s freedom of speech to be taken away.
I find it shit as fuck that people want to bring the death penalty back and I am allowed to say that.
I am genuinely sorry if that makes you feel this way but that is actually a you problem.  | |||
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"No wonder I can’t find any hope. There fucking is NONE. So people aren't allowed to express an opinion or they are as long as they agree with you?. Just because people want to bring it back they are unethical idiots is what you are saying basically. I'm more concerned about a society that doesn't allow freedom of speech than one that allows the death penalty for very serious crimes. Freedom of speech includes the freedom to express disgust at people's views. It doesn't mean that knuckledraggers get to be insulated from the fact that people find their views disgusting." | |||
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"No wonder I can’t find any hope. There fucking is NONE. So people aren't allowed to express an opinion or they are as long as they agree with you?. Just because people want to bring it back they are unethical idiots is what you are saying basically. I'm more concerned about a society that doesn't allow freedom of speech than one that allows the death penalty for very serious crimes. The funniest thing is at no point did I even imply this. This is pure projection I’m not asking fit anyone’s freedom of speech to be taken away.
I find it shit as fuck that people want to bring the death penalty back and I am allowed to say that.
I am genuinely sorry if that makes you feel this way but that is actually a you problem. "but but but freedom of speech means that people shouldn't see opinions they dislike! or that they think they might dislike! marketplace of ideas, communist style. | |||
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"No wonder I can’t find any hope. There fucking is NONE. So people aren't allowed to express an opinion or they are as long as they agree with you?. Just because people want to bring it back they are unethical idiots is what you are saying basically. I'm more concerned about a society that doesn't allow freedom of speech than one that allows the death penalty for very serious crimes. The funniest thing is at no point did I even imply this. This is pure projection I’m not asking fit anyone’s freedom of speech to be taken away.
I find it shit as fuck that people want to bring the death penalty back and I am allowed to say that.
I am genuinely sorry if that makes you feel this way but that is actually a you problem.
but but but freedom of speech means that people shouldn't see opinions they dislike! or that they think they might dislike!
marketplace of ideas, communist style."I’m allowed to say whatever I want and if you express disgust or disagreement then you’re basically blocking my freedom of speech and you’re actually basically a dictator. | |||
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"No wonder I can’t find any hope. There fucking is NONE. So people aren't allowed to express an opinion or they are as long as they agree with you?. Just because people want to bring it back they are unethical idiots is what you are saying basically. I'm more concerned about a society that doesn't allow freedom of speech than one that allows the death penalty for very serious crimes. The funniest thing is at no point did I even imply this. This is pure projection I’m not asking fit anyone’s freedom of speech to be taken away.
I find it shit as fuck that people want to bring the death penalty back and I am allowed to say that.
I am genuinely sorry if that makes you feel this way but that is actually a you problem.
but but but freedom of speech means that people shouldn't see opinions they dislike! or that they think they might dislike!
marketplace of ideas, communist style.
I’m allowed to say whatever I want and if you express disgust or disagreement then you’re basically blocking my freedom of speech and you’re actually basically a dictator. "funny how that kind of ish only exists on one side of the spectrum. On the other, we're like, yeah, you have the right to say that shit, and we have the right to criticise you. But words don't mean anything in this timeline, they're just weapons. | |||
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"There are two reasons we abolished the death penalty... 1) Although it satisfies the lust for revenge (a perfectly normal human reaction) it does not act as a deterrent. If it was reinstated today, as proven by data from many countries, murder rates do not decline. 2) The process WILL at some point go wrong. Not could, not might but WILL fail catastrophically and a miscarriage of justice WILL result in an innocent person(s) being killed. Of course people may feel those terms above are an acceptable 'risk' and that is their opinion they are entitled to. But I would urge people to just keep in mind it could be you or your loved one(s) that fall victim to a miscarriage of justice. One that, at best, can only be corrected with a posthumous pardon. " But aren't there already innocent people being killed by the murderer? | |||
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"The cost of trials and long term imprisonment is a huge burden to tax payer the police should have shot the Southport killer and Lee Rigbys killers at the time We need the death penalty !" Definitely. | |||
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" But I would urge people to just keep in mind it could be you or your loved one(s) that fall victim to a miscarriage of justice. " This is the crux. If you support the death penalty, you’re supporting the right of the state to take your life, of the life of your loved ones. | |||
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" But I would urge people to just keep in mind it could be you or your loved one(s) that fall victim to a miscarriage of justice. This is the crux. If you support the death penalty, you’re supporting the right of the state to take your life, of the life of your loved ones." Most people who think like this assume it'll never touch their lives. Only the lives of the "other". I wish I could be so privileged to be that naive. | |||
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"The death penalty is never the answer. " I used to be all for the death penalty. Then.........miscarriages of justice. Pretty hard to overturn being dead. | |||
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"Monsters like Ian Huntley, Levi Bellfield and Rosemary West do not deserve to be alive. I would gladly torture them slowly until they died." Would you, really?  | |||
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"How many if you would genuinely be prepared to kill someone in the name of justice. Stone cold, pre meditated, state sanctioned. Get up in the morning, go to work, kill people. " not many but there is a small number of people that are not held back by emotive control | |||
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"How many if you would genuinely be prepared to kill someone in the name of justice. Stone cold, pre meditated, state sanctioned. Get up in the morning, go to work, kill people. " I think a few people in these forums would gleefully do it | |||
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"If there was ever to be a day the Death penalty was to be re instated in Great Britain today should surely be the day." There's no proof that it was ever a deterent | |||
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"The Internet is so so fascinating. It really does connect us with people we would never ever willingly interact with. " That is the beauty of it, seeing all different kinds of viewpoints, sometimes your world view is challenged, other times you see that the other person talking is some grifter's useful idiot. Echo chambers are dangerous, that is where a lot of extreme viewpoints are developed, which is why we need open forums, to challenge each other. 9 times out of 10 people won't have their minds changed, but as long as we're not attacking each other, we can agree to disagree. | |||
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"How many if you would genuinely be prepared to kill someone in the name of justice. Stone cold, pre meditated, state sanctioned. Get up in the morning, go to work, kill people. I think a few people in these forums would gleefully do it" It's people like that that worry me. | |||
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"How many if you would genuinely be prepared to kill someone in the name of justice. Stone cold, pre meditated, state sanctioned. Get up in the morning, go to work, kill people. " Hitlers willing executioners is a really long and nerdy read but offers an insight into mob mentality. I think if the death penalty was legalised there are some that would revel in their self given self importance. I imagine they would be people frustrated by their lack of authority, respect and control in their personal lives. | |||
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"How many if you would genuinely be prepared to kill someone in the name of justice. Stone cold, pre meditated, state sanctioned. Get up in the morning, go to work, kill people. " Most people who eat meat today wouldn't kill the animals themselves. One of those interesting cognitive dissonances among people  | |||
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"How many if you would genuinely be prepared to kill someone in the name of justice. Stone cold, pre meditated, state sanctioned. Get up in the morning, go to work, kill people. Hitlers willing executioners is a really long and nerdy read but offers an insight into mob mentality. I think if the death penalty was legalised there are some that would revel in their self given self importance. I imagine they would be people frustrated by their lack of authority, respect and control in their personal lives. " It's a shame that we learn so little from history, isn't it? | |||
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"It’s also like, would people be ok with the mistakes that come with the death penalty if it was them that was the mistake? Or their loved one? Would it still be worth it? " Bad things only happen to "them". They don't happen to "us". Obvs. | |||
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"It’s also like, would people be ok with the mistakes that come with the death penalty if it was them that was the mistake? Or their loved one? Would it still be worth it? Bad things only happen to "them". They don't happen to "us". Obvs."
Silly me | |||
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"How many if you would genuinely be prepared to kill someone in the name of justice. Stone cold, pre meditated, state sanctioned. Get up in the morning, go to work, kill people. Hitlers willing executioners is a really long and nerdy read but offers an insight into mob mentality. I think if the death penalty was legalised there are some that would revel in their self given self importance. I imagine they would be people frustrated by their lack of authority, respect and control in their personal lives. It's a shame that we learn so little from history, isn't it?" It always the way, people are too wrapped up in their own bullshit to see the bigger picture. | |||
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"How many if you would genuinely be prepared to kill someone in the name of justice. Stone cold, pre meditated, state sanctioned. Get up in the morning, go to work, kill people. Hitlers willing executioners is a really long and nerdy read but offers an insight into mob mentality. I think if the death penalty was legalised there are some that would revel in their self given self importance. I imagine they would be people frustrated by their lack of authority, respect and control in their personal lives. It's a shame that we learn so little from history, isn't it? It always the way, people are too wrapped up in their own bullshit to see the bigger picture." Those who don't study history are doomed to repeat it. Those who do study history are doomed to facepalm forever. | |||
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"How many if you would genuinely be prepared to kill someone in the name of justice. Stone cold, pre meditated, state sanctioned. Get up in the morning, go to work, kill people. Most people who eat meat today wouldn't kill the animals themselves. One of those interesting cognitive dissonances among people "Because they don’t have to. It’s in the supermarket. If we lived in a different age and we all had to kill our food as a necessity, I’m pretty sure we’d do it (a few exceptions, I’ve no doubt). Killing another human is seldom a necessity - but again, I’m sure we’d all do it if placed in that horrendous situation. What we’re discussing is unnecessary killing of a human. | |||
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"Monsters like Ian Huntley, Levi Bellfield and Rosemary West do not deserve to be alive. I would gladly torture them slowly until they died. Would you, really? "No, but i am sure there would be plenty volunteers to do the deed. | |||
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"How many if you would genuinely be prepared to kill someone in the name of justice. Stone cold, pre meditated, state sanctioned. Get up in the morning, go to work, kill people. Hitlers willing executioners is a really long and nerdy read but offers an insight into mob mentality. I think if the death penalty was legalised there are some that would revel in their self given self importance. I imagine they would be people frustrated by their lack of authority, respect and control in their personal lives. It's a shame that we learn so little from history, isn't it? It always the way, people are too wrapped up in their own bullshit to see the bigger picture. Those who don't study history are doomed to repeat it. Those who do study history are doomed to facepalm forever." The super rich have learned something. Keep the peasants distracted with lots of bogeymen and keep them angry at each other, that way they won't look at us. It's why we haven't gone all "Revolutionary France" on them (the economic inequality is about the same as that period, if not worse). That is a whole other topic though. | |||
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"Monsters like Ian Huntley, Levi Bellfield and Rosemary West do not deserve to be alive. I would gladly torture them slowly until they died." Does that not make you like them? They did what they did because they had twisted, perverse thinking.. Hiding behind the thin veil of 'it would be for the common good' is masking something dark if that's genuinely how you think.. There's a whole world of difference in pulling a lever or pressing a button than what you think you might be capable of.. There's very good reasons why police applying to be armed response are clinically evaluated and it's not uncommon for ex military to fail that assessment.. | |||
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"How many if you would genuinely be prepared to kill someone in the name of justice. Stone cold, pre meditated, state sanctioned. Get up in the morning, go to work, kill people. Hitlers willing executioners is a really long and nerdy read but offers an insight into mob mentality. I think if the death penalty was legalised there are some that would revel in their self given self importance. I imagine they would be people frustrated by their lack of authority, respect and control in their personal lives. It's a shame that we learn so little from history, isn't it? It always the way, people are too wrapped up in their own bullshit to see the bigger picture. Those who don't study history are doomed to repeat it. Those who do study history are doomed to facepalm forever. The super rich have learned something. Keep the peasants distracted with lots of bogeymen and keep them angry at each other, that way they won't look at us. It's why we haven't gone all "Revolutionary France" on them (the economic inequality is about the same as that period, if not worse). That is a whole other topic though." Same thing they learned with Mussolini. Unfortunately humans are dumb and turn important historical lessons into good guys and bad guys, and congratulate themselves for being the good guys, because self-reflection is painful. | |||
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"How many if you would genuinely be prepared to kill someone in the name of justice. Stone cold, pre meditated, state sanctioned. Get up in the morning, go to work, kill people. Most people who eat meat today wouldn't kill the animals themselves. One of those interesting cognitive dissonances among people
Because they don’t have to. It’s in the supermarket.
"The original post I replied to, asked how many of us will kill someone if it's state sanctioned, in the name of justice. My response was to point out that many people wouldn't kill animals even if they eat them after someone else has done the killing. The state usually hires people to do the killing for death penalty. Just like how we usually hire butchers to do the work on our behalf when it comes to animals. " If we lived in a different age and we all had to kill our food as a necessity, I’m pretty sure we’d do it (a few exceptions, I’ve no doubt). Killing another human is seldom a necessity - but again, I’m sure we’d all do it if placed in that horrendous situation. " Killing humans was a necessity for a really really long time in human history. It's only after we became more prosperous it stopped being a necessity. | |||
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"How many if you would genuinely be prepared to kill someone in the name of justice. Stone cold, pre meditated, state sanctioned. Get up in the morning, go to work, kill people. Hitlers willing executioners is a really long and nerdy read but offers an insight into mob mentality. I think if the death penalty was legalised there are some that would revel in their self given self importance. I imagine they would be people frustrated by their lack of authority, respect and control in their personal lives. It's a shame that we learn so little from history, isn't it? It always the way, people are too wrapped up in their own bullshit to see the bigger picture. Those who don't study history are doomed to repeat it. Those who do study history are doomed to facepalm forever. The super rich have learned something. Keep the peasants distracted with lots of bogeymen and keep them angry at each other, that way they won't look at us. It's why we haven't gone all "Revolutionary France" on them (the economic inequality is about the same as that period, if not worse). That is a whole other topic though." The reason why we haven't gone all "revolutionary France" is because the poorest people of today have much better quality of life compared to what it was then. Inequality itself isn't a problem as long as the quality of life of poor people is decent. | |||
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"Derek Bentley and Timothy Evans. Both executed, both innocent. long before DNA testing was available and advanced forensics so this is an argument that doesn't hold any weight today. I'm for it if the circumstances are available to prove that there's no chance of getting the wrong person. " A note on deterrent: While British Courts had the option to apply the death penalty, murders were still committed. It wasn’t a deterrent then, and isn’t today, as other countries systems amply demonstrate. A note on forensics: The Birmingham Six were convicted of a crime they didn’t commit. Amongst the things used to convict them was “inaccurate forensics” (a polite way of saying fitted up forensics). At sentencing, the judge (Lord Denning) made it clear that if the death penalty was available, he’d be using it. After seventeen years, the Birmingham Six walked free from jail. The murderer in question was born and raised in the UK, and raised a Catholic. Just to keep the far right in check. A note on “when there is no doubt”: We can never be 100% certain. | |||
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"How many if you would genuinely be prepared to kill someone in the name of justice. Stone cold, pre meditated, state sanctioned. Get up in the morning, go to work, kill people. Most people who eat meat today wouldn't kill the animals themselves. One of those interesting cognitive dissonances among people "True. Having grown up with rabbits and chickens hanging in the pantry on a Saturday night having been killed by my dad ready for Sunday lunch I could probably do it if I had to. I'd rather not though | |||
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"Few on here would get it to " Death penalty? | |||
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"How many if you would genuinely be prepared to kill someone in the name of justice. Stone cold, pre meditated, state sanctioned. Get up in the morning, go to work, kill people. Hitlers willing executioners is a really long and nerdy read but offers an insight into mob mentality. I think if the death penalty was legalised there are some that would revel in their self given self importance. I imagine they would be people frustrated by their lack of authority, respect and control in their personal lives. It's a shame that we learn so little from history, isn't it? It always the way, people are too wrapped up in their own bullshit to see the bigger picture. Those who don't study history are doomed to repeat it. Those who do study history are doomed to facepalm forever. The super rich have learned something. Keep the peasants distracted with lots of bogeymen and keep them angry at each other, that way they won't look at us. It's why we haven't gone all "Revolutionary France" on them (the economic inequality is about the same as that period, if not worse). That is a whole other topic though. The reason why we haven't gone all "revolutionary France" is because the poorest people of today have much better quality of life compared to what it was then. Inequality itself isn't a problem as long as the quality of life of poor people is decent." Decent *and constant* One quality of life falls, even if it’s still higher than say fifty or a hundred years ago, people get angry. | |||
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" A note on deterrent: While British Courts had the option to apply the death penalty, murders were still committed. It wasn’t a deterrent then, and isn’t today, as other countries systems amply demonstrate. " Murders happening doesn't mean it doesn't act as a deterrent. | |||
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"How many if you would genuinely be prepared to kill someone in the name of justice. Stone cold, pre meditated, state sanctioned. Get up in the morning, go to work, kill people. Hitlers willing executioners is a really long and nerdy read but offers an insight into mob mentality. I think if the death penalty was legalised there are some that would revel in their self given self importance. I imagine they would be people frustrated by their lack of authority, respect and control in their personal lives. It's a shame that we learn so little from history, isn't it? It always the way, people are too wrapped up in their own bullshit to see the bigger picture. Those who don't study history are doomed to repeat it. Those who do study history are doomed to facepalm forever. The super rich have learned something. Keep the peasants distracted with lots of bogeymen and keep them angry at each other, that way they won't look at us. It's why we haven't gone all "Revolutionary France" on them (the economic inequality is about the same as that period, if not worse). That is a whole other topic though. Same thing they learned with Mussolini. Unfortunately humans are dumb and turn important historical lessons into good guys and bad guys, and congratulate themselves for being the good guys, because self-reflection is painful." Agreed. | |||
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"How many if you would genuinely be prepared to kill someone in the name of justice. Stone cold, pre meditated, state sanctioned. Get up in the morning, go to work, kill people. Most people who eat meat today wouldn't kill the animals themselves. One of those interesting cognitive dissonances among people
True.
Having grown up with rabbits and chickens hanging in the pantry on a Saturday night having been killed by my dad ready for Sunday lunch I could probably do it if I had to. I'd rather not though"I went to a shop to buy chicken where I watched them do it. Could never be me | |||
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"How many if you would genuinely be prepared to kill someone in the name of justice. Stone cold, pre meditated, state sanctioned. Get up in the morning, go to work, kill people. Hitlers willing executioners is a really long and nerdy read but offers an insight into mob mentality. I think if the death penalty was legalised there are some that would revel in their self given self importance. I imagine they would be people frustrated by their lack of authority, respect and control in their personal lives. It's a shame that we learn so little from history, isn't it? It always the way, people are too wrapped up in their own bullshit to see the bigger picture. Those who don't study history are doomed to repeat it. Those who do study history are doomed to facepalm forever. The super rich have learned something. Keep the peasants distracted with lots of bogeymen and keep them angry at each other, that way they won't look at us. It's why we haven't gone all "Revolutionary France" on them (the economic inequality is about the same as that period, if not worse). That is a whole other topic though. The reason why we haven't gone all "revolutionary France" is because the poorest people of today have much better quality of life compared to what it was then. Inequality itself isn't a problem as long as the quality of life of poor people is decent. Decent *and constant* One quality of life falls, even if it’s still higher than say fifty or a hundred years ago, people get angry. " People's quality of life fell during the recession in 2008 and during Covid. It was even worse during the Great Depression. We didn't see them go French Revolution mode. | |||
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"How many if you would genuinely be prepared to kill someone in the name of justice. Stone cold, pre meditated, state sanctioned. Get up in the morning, go to work, kill people. Most people who eat meat today wouldn't kill the animals themselves. One of those interesting cognitive dissonances among people
True.
Having grown up with rabbits and chickens hanging in the pantry on a Saturday night having been killed by my dad ready for Sunday lunch I could probably do it if I had to. I'd rather not though
I went to a shop to buy chicken where I watched them do it. Could never be me "I think, as with killing a human it depends on your level of hunger or threat and the alternatives available | |||
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"How many if you would genuinely be prepared to kill someone in the name of justice. Stone cold, pre meditated, state sanctioned. Get up in the morning, go to work, kill people. Hitlers willing executioners is a really long and nerdy read but offers an insight into mob mentality. I think if the death penalty was legalised there are some that would revel in their self given self importance. I imagine they would be people frustrated by their lack of authority, respect and control in their personal lives. It's a shame that we learn so little from history, isn't it? It always the way, people are too wrapped up in their own bullshit to see the bigger picture. Those who don't study history are doomed to repeat it. Those who do study history are doomed to facepalm forever. The super rich have learned something. Keep the peasants distracted with lots of bogeymen and keep them angry at each other, that way they won't look at us. It's why we haven't gone all "Revolutionary France" on them (the economic inequality is about the same as that period, if not worse). That is a whole other topic though. The reason why we haven't gone all "revolutionary France" is because the poorest people of today have much better quality of life compared to what it was then. Inequality itself isn't a problem as long as the quality of life of poor people is decent. Decent *and constant* One quality of life falls, even if it’s still higher than say fifty or a hundred years ago, people get angry. People's quality of life fell during the recession in 2008 and during Covid. It was even worse during the Great Depression. We didn't see them go French Revolution mode." How low would you accept your living standards to go before you rose up? I suspect it would be long before you were living on the street, right? (This is wildly off-topic) | |||
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"How many if you would genuinely be prepared to kill someone in the name of justice. Stone cold, pre meditated, state sanctioned. Get up in the morning, go to work, kill people. Most people who eat meat today wouldn't kill the animals themselves. One of those interesting cognitive dissonances among people
True.
Having grown up with rabbits and chickens hanging in the pantry on a Saturday night having been killed by my dad ready for Sunday lunch I could probably do it if I had to. I'd rather not though
I went to a shop to buy chicken where I watched them do it. Could never be me
I think, as with killing a human it depends on your level of hunger or threat and the alternatives available" Agreed. If the factors you mentioned played a bigger part, I would end up doing it. | |||
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"How many if you would genuinely be prepared to kill someone in the name of justice. Stone cold, pre meditated, state sanctioned. Get up in the morning, go to work, kill people. Hitlers willing executioners is a really long and nerdy read but offers an insight into mob mentality. I think if the death penalty was legalised there are some that would revel in their self given self importance. I imagine they would be people frustrated by their lack of authority, respect and control in their personal lives. It's a shame that we learn so little from history, isn't it? It always the way, people are too wrapped up in their own bullshit to see the bigger picture. Those who don't study history are doomed to repeat it. Those who do study history are doomed to facepalm forever. The super rich have learned something. Keep the peasants distracted with lots of bogeymen and keep them angry at each other, that way they won't look at us. It's why we haven't gone all "Revolutionary France" on them (the economic inequality is about the same as that period, if not worse). That is a whole other topic though. The reason why we haven't gone all "revolutionary France" is because the poorest people of today have much better quality of life compared to what it was then. Inequality itself isn't a problem as long as the quality of life of poor people is decent. Decent *and constant* One quality of life falls, even if it’s still higher than say fifty or a hundred years ago, people get angry. People's quality of life fell during the recession in 2008 and during Covid. It was even worse during the Great Depression. We didn't see them go French Revolution mode. How low would you accept your living standards to go before you rose up? I suspect it would be long before you were living on the street, right? (This is wildly off-topic)" Many people were in the streets during the Great depression. And they didn't start any revolution | |||
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"The Internet is so so fascinating. It really does connect us with people we would never ever willingly interact with. That is the beauty of it, seeing all different kinds of viewpoints, sometimes your world view is challenged, other times you see that the other person talking is some grifter's useful idiot. Echo chambers are dangerous, that is where a lot of extreme viewpoints are developed, which is why we need open forums, to challenge each other. 9 times out of 10 people won't have their minds changed, but as long as we're not attacking each other, we can agree to disagree." The most sensible comment on here | |||
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"How many if you would genuinely be prepared to kill someone in the name of justice. Stone cold, pre meditated, state sanctioned. Get up in the morning, go to work, kill people. Hitlers willing executioners is a really long and nerdy read but offers an insight into mob mentality. I think if the death penalty was legalised there are some that would revel in their self given self importance. I imagine they would be people frustrated by their lack of authority, respect and control in their personal lives. It's a shame that we learn so little from history, isn't it? It always the way, people are too wrapped up in their own bullshit to see the bigger picture. Those who don't study history are doomed to repeat it. Those who do study history are doomed to facepalm forever. The super rich have learned something. Keep the peasants distracted with lots of bogeymen and keep them angry at each other, that way they won't look at us. It's why we haven't gone all "Revolutionary France" on them (the economic inequality is about the same as that period, if not worse). That is a whole other topic though. The reason why we haven't gone all "revolutionary France" is because the poorest people of today have much better quality of life compared to what it was then. Inequality itself isn't a problem as long as the quality of life of poor people is decent. Decent *and constant* One quality of life falls, even if it’s still higher than say fifty or a hundred years ago, people get angry. People's quality of life fell during the recession in 2008 and during Covid. It was even worse during the Great Depression. We didn't see them go French Revolution mode. How low would you accept your living standards to go before you rose up? I suspect it would be long before you were living on the street, right? (This is wildly off-topic) Many people were in the streets during the Great depression. And they didn't start any revolution " And had they experienced the comforts of the 21st century? Anyways, I asked you a question - at what point would you rise up? You’ll have a trigger point, we all would. | |||
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"The topic of the death penalty in general is an interesting one. However, may I remind the OP and those calling for the execution of the defendant who pleaded guilty to the crimes in Southport is 17 years old age. Therefore, if the death penalty was reintroduced he would, being under 18 years of age, be exempt anyway. " ________________________________________________ Well said, there were no executions in the UK during the 20th Century of offenders convicted of crimes they committed as children. | |||
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" Many people were in the streets during the Great depression. And they didn't start any revolution And had they experienced the comforts of the 21st century? " It was still a huge drop in standard of living. Humans are resilient as long as they aren't coddled all the time. " Anyways, I asked you a question - at what point would you rise up? You’ll have a trigger point, we all would. " I would rise up if someone uses force to take away my personal freedom/rights. Economic downturns can happen for so many reasons. If it's caused by a more dangerous variant of Covid, who am I even rising up against? The virus? | |||
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"Bumping this. It's been 15 minutes and I enjoy watching a few people losing their shit on here." 🤣🤣 I actually ventured into the politics section yesterday as was interested in what people had to say about recent events. It was carnage! 🤣 | |||
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"The death penalty is still legal in the UK 1. High Treason 2. Arson in His Majestys Dock 3. This is the best and strangest Not keeping Holy the Sabbath" Nope, all outlawed in 2004 (I think) | |||
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"The death penalty is never the answer. " I agree, to me it just makes it more of a messed up world when we kill a person because they killed someone. | |||
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"The death penalty is still legal in the UK 1. High Treason 2. Arson in His Majestys Dock 3. This is the best and strangest Not keeping Holy the Sabbath" What a load of absolute nonsense. 🤣 it was abolished in all circumstances in 1998 when the HRA came in. | |||
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"The death penalty is never the answer. " Oh yes it is | |||
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"The cost of trials and long term imprisonment is a huge burden to tax payer the police should have shot the Southport killer and Lee Rigbys killers at the time We need the death penalty !" The cost to imprison a 20yr old male for life in the USA was $2.5m when I looked this up. The cost to execute him was $5m. | |||
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"If there was ever to be a day the Death penalty was to be re instated in Great Britain today should surely be the day." And who's getting put on it first??? The lying government or The noncing royle family ??? | |||
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"If the job of executioner is going then sign me up. You can't rehabilitate 99% of the folk in prison and if they don't want to abide by a civilised set of laws, what place or value do they really have in society? Mr." ______________________________________________ Where do you get that figure from? | |||
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"If the job of executioner is going then sign me up. You can't rehabilitate 99% of the folk in prison and if they don't want to abide by a civilised set of laws, what place or value do they really have in society? Mr. ______________________________________________ Where do you get that figure from?" Reality, I didn't ask Google | |||
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"If the job of executioner is going then sign me up. You can't rehabilitate 99% of the folk in prison and if they don't want to abide by a civilised set of laws, what place or value do they really have in society? Mr. ______________________________________________ Where do you get that figure from? Reality, I didn't ask Google "School of life  | |||
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"If the job of executioner is going then sign me up. You can't rehabilitate 99% of the folk in prison and if they don't want to abide by a civilised set of laws, what place or value do they really have in society? Mr." Sounds like you belong in there tbf  | |||
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"Capital punishment is, by definition, a deterrent. There is no recorded case, in any jurisdiction worldwide, of any miscreant continuing to offend after having been executed." Not so The purposes of punishment are incapacitation, general or specific deterrence, rehabilitation, retribution. Obviously in the case of a penalty which incapacitates, we're more interested in general than specific deterrence. | |||
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"Derek Bentley and Timothy Evans. Both executed, both innocent. long before DNA testing was available and advanced forensics so this is an argument that doesn't hold any weight today. I'm for it if the circumstances are available to prove that there's no chance of getting the wrong person. For example multiple eye witnesses and indisputable forensic evidence, such as the case in lots of terror incidents. Where it will fail is appeals after appeals claiming to have been groxmed and so on then the apologists step forward. So in principle yes reality it's never going to happen due to the costs involved and the red tape that will tie up case's for years. " It holds weight with me and my dislike of the death penalty. | |||
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"If there was ever to be a day the Death penalty was to be re instated in Great Britain today should surely be the day." | |||
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"If the job of executioner is going then sign me up. You can't rehabilitate 99% of the folk in prison and if they don't want to abide by a civilised set of laws, what place or value do they really have in society? Mr. Sounds like you belong in there tbf "Bit of a Woke response! Why honesty a crime nowadays then? Why do good honest hard working members of society have to suffer at the hands of the few and then have the insult of paying for their imprisonment? We charge them, release them and them let them.out and repeat. When is enough enough then? | |||
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"Yep.. that lowlife piece of crap who killed those kids in Southport should be tortured then killed on live TV." _____________________________________________ Thankfully we don't live in Iran, that great contributor to the development of mankind | |||
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"This country did it for years. Clearly it worked back then. Violent crime was almost unheard of. Oh, wait, no it wasn't. "I think it was Albert Peirpoint, the last hangman who said he didn't think it was a deterant. | |||
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"Yep.. that lowlife piece of crap who killed those kids in Southport should be tortured then killed on live TV. _____________________________________________ Thankfully we don't live in Iran, that great contributor to the development of mankind" Iran has one of the oldest and most important human civilisations. | |||
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"If the job of executioner is going then sign me up. You can't rehabilitate 99% of the folk in prison and if they don't want to abide by a civilised set of laws, what place or value do they really have in society? Mr. Sounds like you belong in there tbf
Bit of a Woke response!
Why honesty a crime nowadays then?
Why do good honest hard working members of society have to suffer at the hands of the few and then have the insult of paying for their imprisonment?
We charge them, release them and them let them.out and repeat.
When is enough enough then?"Who disagrees with prison? Anyone? Prisons are failing - their job is part punishment and part rehabilitation/ they’re failing on both counts (I’d argue they punish far more than they rehab though). If you want to discuss prison reform, we could look at the countries who do it well - But none of them use the death penalty. | |||
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"At some point, a mistake will happen and innocent person will be executed. You have to be ok with that. Moreover, you have to be ok with it being someone you love, or even you. If you’re happy to say you have no problem being wrongly killed by the state, then your support for the death penalty is valid. I know there a cases where it seems clear cut, but at some point there’ll be one where it turns out not to be 100% some time later. The thought of being that person is terrifying." Well consider this. Bringing it back under certain provisions indisputable evidence, only for certain crimes and say a grace period of five years for example to ensure all the correct evidence has been presented. Bearing this in mind the actual number of people being executed is going to be extremely low,this massively reduces the chances of innocent people being executed. How many people in the past ten years have been wrongly convicted of murder and given a full life sentence? What if it was your loved ones killed by a horrible murderer wouldn't you want justice? Look before people accuse me of being "disgusting" as seems to be the case. All I am actually doing is discussing this ,it's not happening and I'm not about to become an executioner. It's just a discussion okay. | |||
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"At some point, a mistake will happen and innocent person will be executed. You have to be ok with that. Moreover, you have to be ok with it being someone you love, or even you. If you’re happy to say you have no problem being wrongly killed by the state, then your support for the death penalty is valid. I know there a cases where it seems clear cut, but at some point there’ll be one where it turns out not to be 100% some time later. The thought of being that person is terrifying. Well consider this. Bringing it back under certain provisions indisputable evidence, only for certain crimes and say a grace period of five years for example to ensure all the correct evidence has been presented. Bearing this in mind the actual number of people being executed is going to be extremely low,this massively reduces the chances of innocent people being executed. How many people in the past ten years have been wrongly convicted of murder and given a full life sentence? What if it was your loved ones killed by a horrible murderer wouldn't you want justice? Look before people accuse me of being "disgusting" as seems to be the case. All I am actually doing is discussing this ,it's not happening and I'm not about to become an executioner. It's just a discussion okay. " Miscarriages *will* happen, no matter what bar you set. And regardless, an eye for an eye is not a system of justice in the 21st century. Would you be happy with the state killing you or a loved one by mistake or setup? | |||
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"At some point, a mistake will happen and innocent person will be executed. You have to be ok with that. Moreover, you have to be ok with it being someone you love, or even you. If you’re happy to say you have no problem being wrongly killed by the state, then your support for the death penalty is valid. I know there a cases where it seems clear cut, but at some point there’ll be one where it turns out not to be 100% some time later. The thought of being that person is terrifying. Well consider this. Bringing it back under certain provisions indisputable evidence, only for certain crimes and say a grace period of five years for example to ensure all the correct evidence has been presented. Bearing this in mind the actual number of people being executed is going to be extremely low,this massively reduces the chances of innocent people being executed. How many people in the past ten years have been wrongly convicted of murder and given a full life sentence? What if it was your loved ones killed by a horrible murderer wouldn't you want justice? Look before people accuse me of being "disgusting" as seems to be the case. All I am actually doing is discussing this ,it's not happening and I'm not about to become an executioner. It's just a discussion okay. " I don’t think you’re disgusting; it’s valid viewpoint .
The problem is that at some point an “indisputable” case will turn out to not be. A mistake will happen at some point, especially given the public clamour around certain cases.
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"At some point, a mistake will happen and innocent person will be executed. You have to be ok with that. Moreover, you have to be ok with it being someone you love, or even you. If you’re happy to say you have no problem being wrongly killed by the state, then your support for the death penalty is valid. I know there a cases where it seems clear cut, but at some point there’ll be one where it turns out not to be 100% some time later. The thought of being that person is terrifying. Well consider this. Bringing it back under certain provisions indisputable evidence, only for certain crimes and say a grace period of five years for example to ensure all the correct evidence has been presented. Bearing this in mind the actual number of people being executed is going to be extremely low,this massively reduces the chances of innocent people being executed. How many people in the past ten years have been wrongly convicted of murder and given a full life sentence? What if it was your loved ones killed by a horrible murderer wouldn't you want justice? Look before people accuse me of being "disgusting" as seems to be the case. All I am actually doing is discussing this ,it's not happening and I'm not about to become an executioner. It's just a discussion okay. Miscarriages *will* happen, no matter what bar you set. And regardless, an eye for an eye is not a system of justice in the 21st century. Would you be happy with the state killing you or a loved one by mistake or setup? " Why are you making this personal it's a discussion. Ok then. How would you feel if a convicted murderer is let out of prison early or against advice ( which has actually happened rather than a hypothetical situation that you have mentioned) gets let out and murders one of your loved ones?? This has actually happened a few times recently. So how would you feel? | |||
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"At some point, a mistake will happen and innocent person will be executed. You have to be ok with that. Moreover, you have to be ok with it being someone you love, or even you. If you’re happy to say you have no problem being wrongly killed by the state, then your support for the death penalty is valid. I know there a cases where it seems clear cut, but at some point there’ll be one where it turns out not to be 100% some time later. The thought of being that person is terrifying. Well consider this. Bringing it back under certain provisions indisputable evidence, only for certain crimes and say a grace period of five years for example to ensure all the correct evidence has been presented. Bearing this in mind the actual number of people being executed is going to be extremely low,this massively reduces the chances of innocent people being executed. How many people in the past ten years have been wrongly convicted of murder and given a full life sentence? What if it was your loved ones killed by a horrible murderer wouldn't you want justice? Look before people accuse me of being "disgusting" as seems to be the case. All I am actually doing is discussing this ,it's not happening and I'm not about to become an executioner. It's just a discussion okay. Miscarriages *will* happen, no matter what bar you set. And regardless, an eye for an eye is not a system of justice in the 21st century. Would you be happy with the state killing you or a loved one by mistake or setup? Why are you making this personal it's a discussion. Ok then. How would you feel if a convicted murderer is let out of prison early or against advice ( which has actually happened rather than a hypothetical situation that you have mentioned) gets let out and murders one of your loved ones?? This has actually happened a few times recently. So how would you feel?" Who made it personal? Not me. I’d be devastated, of course. What would you expect me to say? The response to a failing prison system is to fix the prison system, rather than a knee jerk reaction with no evidence to suggest it deters crime in any way. | |||
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"Derek Bentley and Timothy Evans. Both executed, both innocent." If the death penalty had been in place how many innocent people would you have killed? Guildford four Birmingham six And a fair few others | |||
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" Rather than a hypothetical debate causing divisions shouldn't we all be campaigning for more prisons better equipped with the right staffing levels and making prisons a place that actually acts as a deterrent." A deterrent and a place of rehabilitation* | |||
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"At some point, a mistake will happen and innocent person will be executed. You have to be ok with that. Moreover, you have to be ok with it being someone you love, or even you. If you’re happy to say you have no problem being wrongly killed by the state, then your support for the death penalty is valid. I know there a cases where it seems clear cut, but at some point there’ll be one where it turns out not to be 100% some time later. The thought of being that person is terrifying. Well consider this. Bringing it back under certain provisions indisputable evidence, only for certain crimes and say a grace period of five years for example to ensure all the correct evidence has been presented. Bearing this in mind the actual number of people being executed is going to be extremely low,this massively reduces the chances of innocent people being executed. How many people in the past ten years have been wrongly convicted of murder and given a full life sentence? What if it was your loved ones killed by a horrible murderer wouldn't you want justice? Look before people accuse me of being "disgusting" as seems to be the case. All I am actually doing is discussing this ,it's not happening and I'm not about to become an executioner. It's just a discussion okay. " Okay… I can put my hand up here… Full disclosure… I knew Stephen Lawrence, same year as him at school, know his family enough to think of them as auntie uncles and cousins…. I have been looking for justice all my life… every one in east and south east London knew who did it! It’s an open secret! I would have them rot in jail, but I don’t want the death penalty, don’t give them an easy way out! | |||
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" Rather than a hypothetical debate causing divisions shouldn't we all be campaigning for more prisons better equipped with the right staffing levels and making prisons a place that actually acts as a deterrent. A deterrent and a place of rehabilitation*" Rehabilitation for non-violent criminals. Violent criminals can rot in there for life. | |||
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" Rather than a hypothetical debate causing divisions shouldn't we all be campaigning for more prisons better equipped with the right staffing levels and making prisons a place that actually acts as a deterrent. A deterrent and a place of rehabilitation* Rehabilitation for non-violent criminals. Violent criminals can rot in there for life." Can violent criminals not be rehabilitated then? What about a violent 18 year old - is their entire life to be spent in a cell because of something they did as a teen? | |||
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"At some point, a mistake will happen and innocent person will be executed. You have to be ok with that. Moreover, you have to be ok with it being someone you love, or even you. If you’re happy to say you have no problem being wrongly killed by the state, then your support for the death penalty is valid. I know there a cases where it seems clear cut, but at some point there’ll be one where it turns out not to be 100% some time later. The thought of being that person is terrifying. Well consider this. Bringing it back under certain provisions indisputable evidence, only for certain crimes and say a grace period of five years for example to ensure all the correct evidence has been presented. Bearing this in mind the actual number of people being executed is going to be extremely low,this massively reduces the chances of innocent people being executed. How many people in the past ten years have been wrongly convicted of murder and given a full life sentence? What if it was your loved ones killed by a horrible murderer wouldn't you want justice? Look before people accuse me of being "disgusting" as seems to be the case. All I am actually doing is discussing this ,it's not happening and I'm not about to become an executioner. It's just a discussion okay. Okay… I can put my hand up here… Full disclosure… I knew Stephen Lawrence, same year as him at school, know his family enough to think of them as auntie uncles and cousins…. I have been looking for justice all my life… every one in east and south east London knew who did it! It’s an open secret! I would have them rot in jail, but I don’t want the death penalty, don’t give them an easy way out! " Not wanting to derail this thread, yeah it's disgusting that those "people" I use the term like that because they are not people they are animals, obviously being protected by a crooked system. As a close family friend it must be a living nightmare for all concerned since day 1. | |||
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" Rather than a hypothetical debate causing divisions shouldn't we all be campaigning for more prisons better equipped with the right staffing levels and making prisons a place that actually acts as a deterrent. A deterrent and a place of rehabilitation* Rehabilitation for non-violent criminals. Violent criminals can rot in there for life. Can violent criminals not be rehabilitated then? What about a violent 18 year old - is their entire life to be spent in a cell because of something they did as a teen? " I don't care how many of them can be rehabilitated. Even if recidivism rate is as low as 10%, 10 out of every 100 criminals released go out and destroy the lives of innocent law abiding people. In my opinion, the lives of those innocent people are much more valuable than those of the 100 criminals. If protecting the innocent lives takes keeping those 100 criminals in prison forever, so be it. These criminals should have thought about it before they committed the murder or r@pe. | |||
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" Rather than a hypothetical debate causing divisions shouldn't we all be campaigning for more prisons better equipped with the right staffing levels and making prisons a place that actually acts as a deterrent. A deterrent and a place of rehabilitation* Rehabilitation for non-violent criminals. Violent criminals can rot in there for life. Can violent criminals not be rehabilitated then? What about a violent 18 year old - is their entire life to be spent in a cell because of something they did as a teen? I don't care how many of them can be rehabilitated. Even if recidivism rate is as low as 10%, 10 out of every 100 criminals released go out and destroy the lives of innocent law abiding people. In my opinion, the lives of those innocent people are much more valuable than those of the 100 criminals. If protecting the innocent lives takes keeping those 100 criminals in prison forever, so be it. These criminals should have thought about it before they committed the murder or r@pe." It’s as valid a viewpoint as any, of course - but you’re arguing to keep 90 reformed people behind bars to prevent 10 reoffenders off the streets. I’d argue that a better system could be created where the 10 are kept in prison or at least monitored effectively and the 90 rehabilitated criminals who have paid their debt to society can regain their lives - particularly if they committed their crime early in life. | |||
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" A deterrent and a place of rehabilitation* Rehabilitation for non-violent criminals. Violent criminals can rot in there for life. Can violent criminals not be rehabilitated then? What about a violent 18 year old - is their entire life to be spent in a cell because of something they did as a teen? I don't care how many of them can be rehabilitated. Even if recidivism rate is as low as 10%, 10 out of every 100 criminals released go out and destroy the lives of innocent law abiding people. In my opinion, the lives of those innocent people are much more valuable than those of the 100 criminals. If protecting the innocent lives takes keeping those 100 criminals in prison forever, so be it. These criminals should have thought about it before they committed the murder or r@pe. It’s as valid a viewpoint as any, of course - but you’re arguing to keep 90 reformed people behind bars to prevent 10 reoffenders off the streets. I’d argue that a better system could be created where the 10 are kept in prison or at least monitored effectively and the 90 rehabilitated criminals who have paid their debt to society can regain their lives - particularly if they committed their crime early in life." Norway, a country with lowest recidivism rate has a recidivism rate of 20%. I was being a bit lenient with my 10% example. We will NEVER reach 0% recidivism rate because we simply have no way to read a person's mind. Even if we are going to reach something like 1% recidivism rate, it will take many decades to reach that level. During that period, thousands of innocent people will be killed and r@ped. All for what? To ensure that people who have committed murders and r@pes have a normal life again? I would invest all that time, money and effort on so many other issues in the country. | |||
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"If there was ever to be a day the Death penalty was to be re instated in Great Britain today should surely be the day." If the defendant openly admits and the evidence is overwhelmingly obvious he or she is guilty and a child is the victim then yes death penalty. There's no point locking a person up in the hope they'll be a changed person after 30 years or so. Especially where a child is the victim. That's a young person's life lost and the families are now doing a life sentence of pain and hurt and loss. Some parents may be lenient against the death penalty and forgiving very few I expect. They should be allowed to have a say in the matter too. There's a problem with terrorist murderers they and their supporters will look at as a win, as being a martyr to a cause which is part of their goal. In Axel's case he should have been rendered incapable of murder prior to his actions. The red flags were there. The system failed. | |||
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" A deterrent and a place of rehabilitation* Rehabilitation for non-violent criminals. Violent criminals can rot in there for life. Can violent criminals not be rehabilitated then? What about a violent 18 year old - is their entire life to be spent in a cell because of something they did as a teen? I don't care how many of them can be rehabilitated. Even if recidivism rate is as low as 10%, 10 out of every 100 criminals released go out and destroy the lives of innocent law abiding people. In my opinion, the lives of those innocent people are much more valuable than those of the 100 criminals. If protecting the innocent lives takes keeping those 100 criminals in prison forever, so be it. These criminals should have thought about it before they committed the murder or r@pe. It’s as valid a viewpoint as any, of course - but you’re arguing to keep 90 reformed people behind bars to prevent 10 reoffenders off the streets. I’d argue that a better system could be created where the 10 are kept in prison or at least monitored effectively and the 90 rehabilitated criminals who have paid their debt to society can regain their lives - particularly if they committed their crime early in life. Norway, a country with lowest recidivism rate has a recidivism rate of 20%. I was being a bit lenient with my 10% example. We will NEVER reach 0% recidivism rate because we simply have no way to read a person's mind. Even if we are going to reach something like 1% recidivism rate, it will take many decades to reach that level. During that period, thousands of innocent people will be killed and r@ped. All for what? To ensure that people who have committed murders and r@pes have a normal life again? I would invest all that time, money and effort on so many other issues in the country." We don’t have the prison system to do that though, so since we need to fix the prison system, we should probably do it properly, no? More prisons, more staff, more support outside of prison for offenders. | |||
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" A deterrent and a place of rehabilitation* Rehabilitation for non-violent criminals. Violent criminals can rot in there for life. Can violent criminals not be rehabilitated then? What about a violent 18 year old - is their entire life to be spent in a cell because of something they did as a teen? I don't care how many of them can be rehabilitated. Even if recidivism rate is as low as 10%, 10 out of every 100 criminals released go out and destroy the lives of innocent law abiding people. In my opinion, the lives of those innocent people are much more valuable than those of the 100 criminals. If protecting the innocent lives takes keeping those 100 criminals in prison forever, so be it. These criminals should have thought about it before they committed the murder or r@pe. It’s as valid a viewpoint as any, of course - but you’re arguing to keep 90 reformed people behind bars to prevent 10 reoffenders off the streets. I’d argue that a better system could be created where the 10 are kept in prison or at least monitored effectively and the 90 rehabilitated criminals who have paid their debt to society can regain their lives - particularly if they committed their crime early in life. Norway, a country with lowest recidivism rate has a recidivism rate of 20%. I was being a bit lenient with my 10% example. We will NEVER reach 0% recidivism rate because we simply have no way to read a person's mind. Even if we are going to reach something like 1% recidivism rate, it will take many decades to reach that level. During that period, thousands of innocent people will be killed and r@ped. All for what? To ensure that people who have committed murders and r@pes have a normal life again? I would invest all that time, money and effort on so many other issues in the country. We don’t have the prison system to do that though, so since we need to fix the prison system, we should probably do it properly, no? More prisons, more staff, more support outside of prison for offenders." Can you promise that if we get all that, recidivism rate will be reduced to 0%? As I mentioned above, even the lowest recidivism rates around the world are around 20% | |||
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" A deterrent and a place of rehabilitation* Rehabilitation for non-violent criminals. Violent criminals can rot in there for life. Can violent criminals not be rehabilitated then? What about a violent 18 year old - is their entire life to be spent in a cell because of something they did as a teen? I don't care how many of them can be rehabilitated. Even if recidivism rate is as low as 10%, 10 out of every 100 criminals released go out and destroy the lives of innocent law abiding people. In my opinion, the lives of those innocent people are much more valuable than those of the 100 criminals. If protecting the innocent lives takes keeping those 100 criminals in prison forever, so be it. These criminals should have thought about it before they committed the murder or r@pe. It’s as valid a viewpoint as any, of course - but you’re arguing to keep 90 reformed people behind bars to prevent 10 reoffenders off the streets. I’d argue that a better system could be created where the 10 are kept in prison or at least monitored effectively and the 90 rehabilitated criminals who have paid their debt to society can regain their lives - particularly if they committed their crime early in life. Norway, a country with lowest recidivism rate has a recidivism rate of 20%. I was being a bit lenient with my 10% example. We will NEVER reach 0% recidivism rate because we simply have no way to read a person's mind. Even if we are going to reach something like 1% recidivism rate, it will take many decades to reach that level. During that period, thousands of innocent people will be killed and r@ped. All for what? To ensure that people who have committed murders and r@pes have a normal life again? I would invest all that time, money and effort on so many other issues in the country. We don’t have the prison system to do that though, so since we need to fix the prison system, we should probably do it properly, no? More prisons, more staff, more support outside of prison for offenders. Can you promise that if we get all that, recidivism rate will be reduced to 0%? As I mentioned above, even the lowest recidivism rates around the world are around 20%" No, that promise can’t be kept. But I’m arguing that 80-90% shouldn’t be punished more than necessary because a minority of reoffenders. Better to deal with the reoffenders. | |||
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" A deterrent and a place of rehabilitation* Rehabilitation for non-violent criminals. Violent criminals can rot in there for life. Can violent criminals not be rehabilitated then? What about a violent 18 year old - is their entire life to be spent in a cell because of something they did as a teen? I don't care how many of them can be rehabilitated. Even if recidivism rate is as low as 10%, 10 out of every 100 criminals released go out and destroy the lives of innocent law abiding people. In my opinion, the lives of those innocent people are much more valuable than those of the 100 criminals. If protecting the innocent lives takes keeping those 100 criminals in prison forever, so be it. These criminals should have thought about it before they committed the murder or r@pe. It’s as valid a viewpoint as any, of course - but you’re arguing to keep 90 reformed people behind bars to prevent 10 reoffenders off the streets. I’d argue that a better system could be created where the 10 are kept in prison or at least monitored effectively and the 90 rehabilitated criminals who have paid their debt to society can regain their lives - particularly if they committed their crime early in life. Norway, a country with lowest recidivism rate has a recidivism rate of 20%. I was being a bit lenient with my 10% example. We will NEVER reach 0% recidivism rate because we simply have no way to read a person's mind. Even if we are going to reach something like 1% recidivism rate, it will take many decades to reach that level. During that period, thousands of innocent people will be killed and r@ped. All for what? To ensure that people who have committed murders and r@pes have a normal life again? I would invest all that time, money and effort on so many other issues in the country. We don’t have the prison system to do that though, so since we need to fix the prison system, we should probably do it properly, no? More prisons, more staff, more support outside of prison for offenders. Can you promise that if we get all that, recidivism rate will be reduced to 0%? As I mentioned above, even the lowest recidivism rates around the world are around 20% No, that promise can’t be kept. But I’m arguing that 80-90% shouldn’t be punished more than necessary because a minority of reoffenders. Better to deal with the reoffenders. " I think life imprisonment is just right for murderers and rapists. It's easy for you to say "let's deal with reoffenders". Why should an innocent person get murdered or r@ped just because some people want to experiment with sending convicted murderers and r@pists back in to the society? These criminals had their chance. They fucked up. They have to live with the consequences of their actions. | |||
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"Yep.. that lowlife piece of crap who killed those kids in Southport should be tortured then killed on live TV. _____________________________________________ Thankfully we don't live in Iran, that great contributor to the development of mankind Iran has one of the oldest and most important human civilisations." Its historic contribution to the world is indisputable but its current contribution is....... questionable. | |||
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