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"“This question has been answered multiple times. Not sure why you keep parroting it” Because the thread doesn’t revolve around you, mayhap? I’m interested to see if we can find a single person who’d genuinely be willing to make that salute in public. " My point is that it doesn't matter. I can support someone doing something without doing it myself. If a guy wants to shock his balls using BDSM toys and someone tells him he is bad for doing so, I will argue that there is nothing wrong with the guy shocking his balls. But there is no way I do it myself. People supporting trans people's right to surgery aren't going to do the surgery themselves. People supporting abortion rights aren't going to do abortion themselves. | |||
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"My favourite sub Reddit is going into abject Elon derangement syndrome because he’s LiTEraLLY a NaZI. They are petitioning to ban X links around transfer rumours in case the sub goes full Nazi. Hilarious pearl clutching. " Reddit has absolutely gone wild today. It is predominantly left leaning. Numerous subreddits which have absolutely nothing to do with Elon are having threads running about it. The funny thing is that Trump passed so many executive orders which are much more important than what Elon did and not many people are talking about that. | |||
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"“This question has been answered multiple times. Not sure why you keep parroting it” Because the thread doesn’t revolve around you, mayhap? I’m interested to see if we can find a single person who’d genuinely be willing to make that salute in public. My point is that it doesn't matter. I can support someone doing something without doing it myself. If a guy wants to shock his balls using BDSM toys and someone tells him he is bad for doing so, I will argue that there is nothing wrong with the guy shocking his balls. But there is no way I do it myself. People supporting trans people's right to surgery aren't going to do the surgery themselves. People supporting abortion rights aren't going to do abortion themselves." Again, chalk/cheese. And that word ‘support’ - do you support Musk making that salute? Accept might be understandable, but ‘support’? I don’t support anyone making fascistic gesticulations in public (or indeed in private). I’m not sure why anyone would. | |||
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"It wasn't a nazi salute. Did anyone actually listen to what he said? " Where’s the fun in that. It’s much more fun to lose it instead. | |||
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"To all the people saying it's not that salute. Next time you are in Germany do it and see what happened." Let me know how I don’t you do a salute, and I will try it  | |||
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"To all the people saying it's not that salute. Next time you are in Germany do it and see what happened. Let me know how I don’t you do a salute, and I will try it "do and you will get arrested | |||
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"It wasn't a nazi salute. Did anyone actually listen to what he said? " So if I do that salute but say something nice afterwards, it’s ok? | |||
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"Stalin was really shrewd not having a special wave. No-one ever uses him as an insult. " Brilliant 👏 | |||
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"Came here to witness with my own eyes people defending a man do two Nazi salutes televised on stage, and I was not disappointed. Or rather, it is very disappointing to see people stick up for a billionaire who wouldn't give them the time of day because he deems them so beneath him." Crazy isn’t it? The lengths people will go to deny the evidence seen with their own eyes. | |||
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"Came here to witness with my own eyes people defending a man do two Nazi salutes televised on stage, and I was not disappointed. Or rather, it is very disappointing to see people stick up for a billionaire who wouldn't give them the time of day because he deems them so beneath him." You'll find that communism is a life of disappointment Phil!  | |||
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"To all the people saying it's not that salute. Next time you are in Germany do it and see what happened. Let me know how I don’t you do a salute, and I will try it do and you will get arrested "For not saluting? | |||
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"To all the people saying it's not that salute. Next time you are in Germany do it and see what happened." If you do homosexual acts in Middle Eastern countries, you will get arrested. Is that an argument saying homosexuality is bad? | |||
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"“This question has been answered multiple times. Not sure why you keep parroting it” Because the thread doesn’t revolve around you, mayhap? I’m interested to see if we can find a single person who’d genuinely be willing to make that salute in public. My point is that it doesn't matter. I can support someone doing something without doing it myself. If a guy wants to shock his balls using BDSM toys and someone tells him he is bad for doing so, I will argue that there is nothing wrong with the guy shocking his balls. But there is no way I do it myself. People supporting trans people's right to surgery aren't going to do the surgery themselves. People supporting abortion rights aren't going to do abortion themselves. Again, chalk/cheese. And that word ‘support’ - do you support Musk making that salute? Accept might be understandable, but ‘support’? I don’t support anyone making fascistic gesticulations in public (or indeed in private). I’m not sure why anyone would." I don't think he did anything bad. You might call it "support" or "accept" Also, I have explained why I am comparing these. You keep repeating that it's apple/orange and chalk/cheese without telling why. | |||
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"“This question has been answered multiple times. Not sure why you keep parroting it” Because the thread doesn’t revolve around you, mayhap? I’m interested to see if we can find a single person who’d genuinely be willing to make that salute in public. My point is that it doesn't matter. I can support someone doing something without doing it myself. If a guy wants to shock his balls using BDSM toys and someone tells him he is bad for doing so, I will argue that there is nothing wrong with the guy shocking his balls. But there is no way I do it myself. People supporting trans people's right to surgery aren't going to do the surgery themselves. People supporting abortion rights aren't going to do abortion themselves. Again, chalk/cheese. And that word ‘support’ - do you support Musk making that salute? Accept might be understandable, but ‘support’? I don’t support anyone making fascistic gesticulations in public (or indeed in private). I’m not sure why anyone would. I don't think he did anything bad. You might call it "support" or "accept" Also, I have explained why I am comparing these. You keep repeating that it's apple/orange and chalk/cheese without telling why." I explained why the Hindu swastika is different from a salute in the ether thread. Conflating having surgery or having an abortion to doing the salute is equally invalid, I assumed you’d be smart enough to realise that. | |||
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"“l I don't think he did anything bad. You might call it "support" or "accept" " I might not, since those words have very different meanings. I can accept that Boris Johnson won the general election in 2019. I didn’t support him. I can accept that we have a long stretch of the local dual carriageway which has been reduced to a 50mph limit. I don’t support it. So do you support Musk making that gesture? Or merely accept it? | |||
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"“This question has been answered multiple times. Not sure why you keep parroting it” Because the thread doesn’t revolve around you, mayhap? I’m interested to see if we can find a single person who’d genuinely be willing to make that salute in public. My point is that it doesn't matter. I can support someone doing something without doing it myself. If a guy wants to shock his balls using BDSM toys and someone tells him he is bad for doing so, I will argue that there is nothing wrong with the guy shocking his balls. But there is no way I do it myself. People supporting trans people's right to surgery aren't going to do the surgery themselves. People supporting abortion rights aren't going to do abortion themselves. Again, chalk/cheese. And that word ‘support’ - do you support Musk making that salute? Accept might be understandable, but ‘support’? I don’t support anyone making fascistic gesticulations in public (or indeed in private). I’m not sure why anyone would. I don't think he did anything bad. You might call it "support" or "accept" Also, I have explained why I am comparing these. You keep repeating that it's apple/orange and chalk/cheese without telling why. I explained why the Hindu swastika is different from a salute in the ether thread. " And I responded to your explanation that it has different historic context. What's the logic there? Gestures and symbols have different meanings. End of the day, it's the intention of the person doing the gesture or using the symbol that matters. If a Hindu has swastika painted on his door, it is fine only if his intention is religious. If he did it because he hates jews, it's still bad. " Conflating having surgery or having an abortion to doing the salute is equally invalid, I assumed you’d be smart enough to realise that. " In this context, it's not invalid. You are going around asking people "Oh you are defending Musk doing a gesture. Would you do it yourself?". It's same as someone asking you "Oh you support surgeries for trans people? Would you do it yourself?" The common thread here is that people can defend someone's action even though they won't do those actions themselves. | |||
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"“l I don't think he did anything bad. You might call it "support" or "accept" I might not, since those words have very different meanings. I can accept that Boris Johnson won the general election in 2019. I didn’t support him. I can accept that we have a long stretch of the local dual carriageway which has been reduced to a 50mph limit. I don’t support it. So do you support Musk making that gesture? Or merely accept it? " I believe he didn't do anything wrong. And I will defend him against the modern iteration of witch hunters. If you call it "support" or "accept", I don't care either way. | |||
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"“l I don't think he did anything bad. You might call it "support" or "accept" I might not, since those words have very different meanings. I can accept that Boris Johnson won the general election in 2019. I didn’t support him. I can accept that we have a long stretch of the local dual carriageway which has been reduced to a 50mph limit. I don’t support it. So do you support Musk making that gesture? Or merely accept it? I believe he didn't do anything wrong. And I will defend him against the modern iteration of witch hunters. If you call it "support" or "accept", I don't care either way." But it matters because the two words have different meanings. Don’t dodge the question, my guy, it’s really easy to answer. | |||
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"I absolutely support Musk’s right to wave in any fashion he chooses, just as I support the right of others to wave a red flag and sing an anthem despite its historical links to the abominable atrocities of communism and even the barbarism of the French Revolution from whence it originates." That’s a good start. Would you perform that salute in public? And if not, why? There’s no wrong answer here, btw. | |||
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"I absolutely support Musk’s right to wave in any fashion he chooses, just as I support the right of others to wave a red flag and sing an anthem despite its historical links to the abominable atrocities of communism and even the barbarism of the French Revolution from whence it originates. That’s a good start. Would you perform that salute in public? And if not, why? There’s no wrong answer here, btw." Musk has said that it was not a salute. I wouldn’t make any political salute, and I wouldn’t wave a red flag as a political gesture or sing an anthem supporting the red flag and all it stands for. Yet that is what happens every year at the Labour Party conference. Extraordinary. | |||
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"I absolutely support Musk’s right to wave in any fashion he chooses, just as I support the right of others to wave a red flag and sing an anthem despite its historical links to the abominable atrocities of communism and even the barbarism of the French Revolution from whence it originates. That’s a good start. Would you perform that salute in public? And if not, why? There’s no wrong answer here, btw. Musk has said that it was not a salute. I wouldn’t make any political salute, and I wouldn’t wave a red flag as a political gesture or sing an anthem supporting the red flag and all it stands for. Yet that is what happens every year at the Labour Party conference. Extraordinary." Do other conferences not wave flags and banners then? Or just labour? Are other flag wavers ok? And if we accept Musk that it wasn’t *that* salute, would we expect someone of his supposed intellect to know better what the optics looked like? | |||
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"It wasn't a nazi salute. Did anyone actually listen to what he said? So if I do that salute but say something nice afterwards, it’s ok? " Not if you wait a while, think about what you've done and then say "something nice", no, it isn't ok. However, he said what he said in the moment, which to me shows it wasn't what some people are insisting it was, but, you know, some people will believe what they want to believe 🤷🏾♂️ | |||
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"“l I don't think he did anything bad. You might call it "support" or "accept" I might not, since those words have very different meanings. I can accept that Boris Johnson won the general election in 2019. I didn’t support him. I can accept that we have a long stretch of the local dual carriageway which has been reduced to a 50mph limit. I don’t support it. So do you support Musk making that gesture? Or merely accept it? I believe he didn't do anything wrong. And I will defend him against the modern iteration of witch hunters. If you call it "support" or "accept", I don't care either way. But it matters because the two words have different meanings. Don’t dodge the question, my guy, it’s really easy to answer." Define "support" and "accept" more clearly and then I can answer the question. | |||
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"“l I don't think he did anything bad. You might call it "support" or "accept" I might not, since those words have very different meanings. I can accept that Boris Johnson won the general election in 2019. I didn’t support him. I can accept that we have a long stretch of the local dual carriageway which has been reduced to a 50mph limit. I don’t support it. So do you support Musk making that gesture? Or merely accept it? I believe he didn't do anything wrong. And I will defend him against the modern iteration of witch hunters. If you call it "support" or "accept", I don't care either way. But it matters because the two words have different meanings. Don’t dodge the question, my guy, it’s really easy to answer. Define "support" and "accept" more clearly and then I can answer the question." I’ve already given examples of both. I’m pretty sure you’re aware of the definitions. | |||
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" And if we accept Musk that it wasn’t *that* salute, would we expect someone of his supposed intellect to know better what the optics looked like? " If he doesn't care what a section of people think, why would optics matter? | |||
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"“l I don't think he did anything bad. You might call it "support" or "accept" I might not, since those words have very different meanings. I can accept that Boris Johnson won the general election in 2019. I didn’t support him. I can accept that we have a long stretch of the local dual carriageway which has been reduced to a 50mph limit. I don’t support it. So do you support Musk making that gesture? Or merely accept it? I believe he didn't do anything wrong. And I will defend him against the modern iteration of witch hunters. If you call it "support" or "accept", I don't care either way. But it matters because the two words have different meanings. Don’t dodge the question, my guy, it’s really easy to answer. Define "support" and "accept" more clearly and then I can answer the question. I’ve already given examples of both. I’m pretty sure you’re aware of the definitions." No I don't. You just gave a lame example of 50mph limit. Is LGBT acceptance same as your road limit acceptance? | |||
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"“l I don't think he did anything bad. You might call it "support" or "accept" I might not, since those words have very different meanings. I can accept that Boris Johnson won the general election in 2019. I didn’t support him. I can accept that we have a long stretch of the local dual carriageway which has been reduced to a 50mph limit. I don’t support it. So do you support Musk making that gesture? Or merely accept it? I believe he didn't do anything wrong. And I will defend him against the modern iteration of witch hunters. If you call it "support" or "accept", I don't care either way. But it matters because the two words have different meanings. Don’t dodge the question, my guy, it’s really easy to answer. Define "support" and "accept" more clearly and then I can answer the question. I’ve already given examples of both. I’m pretty sure you’re aware of the definitions. No I don't. You just gave a lame example of 50mph limit. Is LGBT acceptance same as your road limit acceptance?" You don’t know the broad definitions of the words you use? That sounds like a ‘you’ problem. Maybe you shouldn’t use words you don’t comprehend. | |||
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"“l I don't think he did anything bad. You might call it "support" or "accept" I might not, since those words have very different meanings. I can accept that Boris Johnson won the general election in 2019. I didn’t support him. I can accept that we have a long stretch of the local dual carriageway which has been reduced to a 50mph limit. I don’t support it. So do you support Musk making that gesture? Or merely accept it? I believe he didn't do anything wrong. And I will defend him against the modern iteration of witch hunters. If you call it "support" or "accept", I don't care either way. But it matters because the two words have different meanings. Don’t dodge the question, my guy, it’s really easy to answer. Define "support" and "accept" more clearly and then I can answer the question. I’ve already given examples of both. I’m pretty sure you’re aware of the definitions. No I don't. You just gave a lame example of 50mph limit. Is LGBT acceptance same as your road limit acceptance? You don’t know the broad definitions of the words you use? That sounds like a ‘you’ problem. Maybe you shouldn’t use words you don’t comprehend. " And yet here you are struggling to give meanings for those words  | |||
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"“l I don't think he did anything bad. You might call it "support" or "accept" I might not, since those words have very different meanings. I can accept that Boris Johnson won the general election in 2019. I didn’t support him. I can accept that we have a long stretch of the local dual carriageway which has been reduced to a 50mph limit. I don’t support it. So do you support Musk making that gesture? Or merely accept it? I believe he didn't do anything wrong. And I will defend him against the modern iteration of witch hunters. If you call it "support" or "accept", I don't care either way. But it matters because the two words have different meanings. Don’t dodge the question, my guy, it’s really easy to answer. Define "support" and "accept" more clearly and then I can answer the question. I’ve already given examples of both. I’m pretty sure you’re aware of the definitions. No I don't. You just gave a lame example of 50mph limit. Is LGBT acceptance same as your road limit acceptance? You don’t know the broad definitions of the words you use? That sounds like a ‘you’ problem. Maybe you shouldn’t use words you don’t comprehend. And yet here you are struggling to give meanings for those words "Oh I’m not struggling, I’m just not playing your game - you’ve proven yourself eloquent enough that you have a firm grasp of language, so I’m not going to indulge you. Accept and support are not interchangeable terms, as you well know - for some reason you just don’t want to tell us which you are with regard to Musk’s salute. | |||
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"“l I don't think he did anything bad. You might call it "support" or "accept" I might not, since those words have very different meanings. I can accept that Boris Johnson won the general election in 2019. I didn’t support him. I can accept that we have a long stretch of the local dual carriageway which has been reduced to a 50mph limit. I don’t support it. So do you support Musk making that gesture? Or merely accept it? I believe he didn't do anything wrong. And I will defend him against the modern iteration of witch hunters. If you call it "support" or "accept", I don't care either way. But it matters because the two words have different meanings. Don’t dodge the question, my guy, it’s really easy to answer. Define "support" and "accept" more clearly and then I can answer the question. I’ve already given examples of both. I’m pretty sure you’re aware of the definitions. No I don't. You just gave a lame example of 50mph limit. Is LGBT acceptance same as your road limit acceptance? You don’t know the broad definitions of the words you use? That sounds like a ‘you’ problem. Maybe you shouldn’t use words you don’t comprehend. And yet here you are struggling to give meanings for those words
Oh I’m not struggling, I’m just not playing your game - you’ve proven yourself eloquent enough that you have a firm grasp of language, so I’m not going to indulge you.
Accept and support are not interchangeable terms, as you well know - for some reason you just don’t want to tell us which you are with regard to Musk’s salute. "I never said they are interchangeable terms. But the words mean different things in different contexts. Hence I an asking what you mean. In my opinion, you are giving an illusion of choice to people. People's view on this matter could be neither of the options you have given. Hence, I am asking you to give your definitions of the words before taking the bait. | |||
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"“l I don't think he did anything bad. You might call it "support" or "accept" I might not, since those words have very different meanings. I can accept that Boris Johnson won the general election in 2019. I didn’t support him. I can accept that we have a long stretch of the local dual carriageway which has been reduced to a 50mph limit. I don’t support it. So do you support Musk making that gesture? Or merely accept it? I believe he didn't do anything wrong. And I will defend him against the modern iteration of witch hunters. If you call it "support" or "accept", I don't care either way. But it matters because the two words have different meanings. Don’t dodge the question, my guy, it’s really easy to answer. Define "support" and "accept" more clearly and then I can answer the question. I’ve already given examples of both. I’m pretty sure you’re aware of the definitions. No I don't. You just gave a lame example of 50mph limit. Is LGBT acceptance same as your road limit acceptance? You don’t know the broad definitions of the words you use? That sounds like a ‘you’ problem. Maybe you shouldn’t use words you don’t comprehend. And yet here you are struggling to give meanings for those words
Oh I’m not struggling, I’m just not playing your game - you’ve proven yourself eloquent enough that you have a firm grasp of language, so I’m not going to indulge you.
Accept and support are not interchangeable terms, as you well know - for some reason you just don’t want to tell us which you are with regard to Musk’s salute.
I never said they are interchangeable terms. But the words mean different things in different contexts. Hence I an asking what you mean. In my opinion, you are giving an illusion of choice to people. People's view on this matter could be neither of the options you have given. Hence, I am asking you to give your definitions of the words before taking the bait."There’s no bait at all. It’s clear that you feel that Musk did no wrong. You have no problem with the optics of what he did. You’ve used the word ‘support’ to describe your thoughts on the matter, now you’re trying to railroad the conversation elsewhere. You’ve also made excises for him, without knowing what he was thinking or feeling at the time. Shall we have another go around, or is that it? | |||
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"I absolutely support Musk’s right to wave in any fashion he chooses, just as I support the right of others to wave a red flag and sing an anthem despite its historical links to the abominable atrocities of communism and even the barbarism of the French Revolution from whence it originates. That’s a good start. Would you perform that salute in public? And if not, why? There’s no wrong answer here, btw. Musk has said that it was not a salute. I wouldn’t make any political salute, and I wouldn’t wave a red flag as a political gesture or sing an anthem supporting the red flag and all it stands for. Yet that is what happens every year at the Labour Party conference. Extraordinary. Do other conferences not wave flags and banners then? Or just labour? Are other flag wavers ok? And if we accept Musk that it wasn’t *that* salute, would we expect someone of his supposed intellect to know better what the optics looked like? " I would dare to suggest that flags directly linked to those intent on the annihilation of a particular group of people are repugnant. Here we are considering groups who, historically or currently, openly wish to eradicate the Jewish people. Do you concur that such ideologies have no place in our society? | |||
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"I absolutely support Musk’s right to wave in any fashion he chooses, just as I support the right of others to wave a red flag and sing an anthem despite its historical links to the abominable atrocities of communism and even the barbarism of the French Revolution from whence it originates. That’s a good start. Would you perform that salute in public? And if not, why? There’s no wrong answer here, btw. Musk has said that it was not a salute. I wouldn’t make any political salute, and I wouldn’t wave a red flag as a political gesture or sing an anthem supporting the red flag and all it stands for. Yet that is what happens every year at the Labour Party conference. Extraordinary. Do other conferences not wave flags and banners then? Or just labour? Are other flag wavers ok? And if we accept Musk that it wasn’t *that* salute, would we expect someone of his supposed intellect to know better what the optics looked like? I would dare to suggest that flags directly linked to those intent on the annihilation of a particular group of people are repugnant. Here we are considering groups who, historically or currently, openly wish to eradicate the Jewish people. Do you concur that such ideologies have no place in our society?" What flags ‘linked to those directly linked with those intent on the annihilation of a particular group of people’ get waved at Labour conference? I absolutely agree that violent ideologies have no place in society. I also don’t pick and choose which violent ideologies are abhorrent, as some do. | |||
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" So do you support Musk making that gesture? Or merely accept it? I believe he didn't do anything wrong. And I will defend him against the modern iteration of witch hunters. If you call it "support" or "accept", I don't care either way. But it matters because the two words have different meanings. Don’t dodge the question, my guy, it’s really easy to answer. Define "support" and "accept" more clearly and then I can answer the question. I’ve already given examples of both. I’m pretty sure you’re aware of the definitions. No I don't. You just gave a lame example of 50mph limit. Is LGBT acceptance same as your road limit acceptance? You don’t know the broad definitions of the words you use? That sounds like a ‘you’ problem. Maybe you shouldn’t use words you don’t comprehend. And yet here you are struggling to give meanings for those words
Oh I’m not struggling, I’m just not playing your game - you’ve proven yourself eloquent enough that you have a firm grasp of language, so I’m not going to indulge you.
Accept and support are not interchangeable terms, as you well know - for some reason you just don’t want to tell us which you are with regard to Musk’s salute.
I never said they are interchangeable terms. But the words mean different things in different contexts. Hence I an asking what you mean. In my opinion, you are giving an illusion of choice to people. People's view on this matter could be neither of the options you have given. Hence, I am asking you to give your definitions of the words before taking the bait.
There’s no bait at all. It’s clear that you feel that Musk did no wrong. You have no problem with the optics of what he did. You’ve used the word ‘support’ to describe your thoughts on the matter, now you’re trying to railroad the conversation elsewhere. You’ve also made excises for him, without knowing what he was thinking or feeling at the time.
Shall we have another go around, or is that it? "I have made my feelings clear. I don't think Musk did anything wrong. I will defend what he did against anyone. Surely this should be enough information for you to decide whether it falls within your definition of "accept" or "support"? If it's neither, then the choices you have given aren't enough. It's like asking a vegan if their favourite dish is Steak or Lobster. Instead of going around like this, all you have to do is to give me the definitions of the words in this context. Then I can choose one of "Accept" or "Support" or tell you that it's neither(which most likely is the case). | |||
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"Only he knows what he meant, if he meant anything at all. The noise on the internet is conjecture based on bias." Indeed, the problem is only he knows, everyone else is just guessing. To me if this was pre planned and intentional then it is concerning. If however it was not a deliberate act to give the Roman salute then I don't have such a concern other than it looks bad. Unfortunately only he knows, unless others have proof it was intentional | |||
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