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"Most likely. Zionism at it's worst " Trumps a Zionist now? Mrs x | |||
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"Are the hostages likely to still be alive? And if they aren't how do you think Israel will respond to this? Mrs x" Re; your previous post, trump moved the embassy to Jerusalem and netanyahu was over the moon with trump. Re; this post, gallant had a falling out with netanyahu because of not prioritising the release of hostages (alive) after IDF shot hostages dead. He's not in the cabinet anymore. How they'll react? The citizens will blame netanyahu re: the demonstrations in Tel-Aviv - netanyahu will blame all the Palestinians including children and babies "there are no civilians" or words to that effect from netanyahu and his far right Likud party | |||
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"Most likely. Zionism at it's worst Trumps a Zionist now? Mrs x" It's only 4 posts in and you've replied - but who's counting eh? | |||
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"Most likely. Zionism at it's worst Trumps a Zionist now? Mrs x It's only 4 posts in and you've replied - but who's counting eh?" You liking your new profile, why did you change it? Mrs x | |||
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"The interesting part of this story is Trump's middle east envoy, Steve Witkoff is already conducting negotiations. It would be an absolutely amazing outcome if this conflict is resolved when he gets into office." I can't see what else trump could do to Gaza and the Palestinians that Israel hasn't already done. | |||
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"The interesting part of this story is Trump's middle east envoy, Steve Witkoff is already conducting negotiations. It would be an absolutely amazing outcome if this conflict is resolved when he gets into office. I can't see what else trump could do to Gaza and the Palestinians that Israel hasn't already done." Gaza and Palestinians are not the puppet masters. Sanctioning Iran right now will bite and they can't afford any unrest from their citizens. There is more than 1 way to skin a cat. | |||
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"The interesting part of this story is Trump's middle east envoy, Steve Witkoff is already conducting negotiations. It would be an absolutely amazing outcome if this conflict is resolved when he gets into office. I can't see what else trump could do to Gaza and the Palestinians that Israel hasn't already done. Gaza and Palestinians are not the puppet masters. Sanctioning Iran right now will bite and they can't afford any unrest from their citizens. There is more than 1 way to skin a cat." Depends on how/if Iran has any control of Hamas. Support yes but control? Regime change hasn't usually worked with unexpected consequences so yet more conflict in in the middle east perhaps? | |||
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"The interesting part of this story is Trump's middle east envoy, Steve Witkoff is already conducting negotiations. It would be an absolutely amazing outcome if this conflict is resolved when he gets into office. I can't see what else trump could do to Gaza and the Palestinians that Israel hasn't already done. Gaza and Palestinians are not the puppet masters. Sanctioning Iran right now will bite and they can't afford any unrest from their citizens. There is more than 1 way to skin a cat. Depends on how/if Iran has any control of Hamas. Support yes but control? Regime change hasn't usually worked with unexpected consequences so yet more conflict in in the middle east perhaps?" Iran pull the strings of Hamas, they provoked October 7th attacks, funded it and trained Hamas. Iran's aim was to destabilise Israel who were in talks with Saudi ref, normalising relations. This was also being supported by the US. | |||
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 . The Israeli government have been much too unconstrained and Trump will likely empower them  | |||
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"The interesting part of this story is Trump's middle east envoy, Steve Witkoff is already conducting negotiations. It would be an absolutely amazing outcome if this conflict is resolved when he gets into office. I can't see what else trump could do to Gaza and the Palestinians that Israel hasn't already done. Gaza and Palestinians are not the puppet masters. Sanctioning Iran right now will bite and they can't afford any unrest from their citizens. There is more than 1 way to skin a cat. Depends on how/if Iran has any control of Hamas. Support yes but control? Regime change hasn't usually worked with unexpected consequences so yet more conflict in in the middle east perhaps? Iran pull the strings of Hamas, they provoked October 7th attacks, funded it and trained Hamas. Iran's aim was to destabilise Israel who were in talks with Saudi ref, normalising relations. This was also being supported by the US." Can you supply sources that Iran "ordered" the 7 October attacks? I also see no logic in the 7 October attacks changing Saudi"s decision to normalise relations so would like to see more on that | |||
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"I'm uncertain that Trump will bring much, if any, positive changes to the world. Likely the opposite. I dread to think of him seeing personal $ that could be generated there, too . The Israeli government have been much too unconstrained and Trump will likely empower them "American middle East foreign policy hasn't brought any peace. Including the toppling of the Iranian government in the 70s that helped Iran become what it is today. I don't think the Americans care what unexpected consequences would occur either | |||
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"The interesting part of this story is Trump's middle east envoy, Steve Witkoff is already conducting negotiations. It would be an absolutely amazing outcome if this conflict is resolved when he gets into office. I can't see what else trump could do to Gaza and the Palestinians that Israel hasn't already done. Gaza and Palestinians are not the puppet masters. Sanctioning Iran right now will bite and they can't afford any unrest from their citizens. There is more than 1 way to skin a cat. Depends on how/if Iran has any control of Hamas. Support yes but control? Regime change hasn't usually worked with unexpected consequences so yet more conflict in in the middle east perhaps? Iran pull the strings of Hamas, they provoked October 7th attacks, funded it and trained Hamas. Iran's aim was to destabilise Israel who were in talks with Saudi ref, normalising relations. This was also being supported by the US. Can you supply sources that Iran "ordered" the 7 October attacks? I also see no logic in the 7 October attacks changing Saudi"s decision to normalise relations so would like to see more on that " I’m not going to get drawn into a long if, but and maybe. Iran trained Hamas, arm them and fund them. I didn’t say Iran ordered the attack. Iran was upset on 2 fronts, oil sanctions, withdrawal from the nuclear program. Both of these events led to attacks on shipping and the Royal Marines boarding a ship. The US can bring them back in from the wilderness if they wish, and if they do it will cease the conflict. | |||
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"I'm uncertain that Trump will bring much, if any, positive changes to the world. Likely the opposite. I dread to think of him seeing personal $ that could be generated there, too . The Israeli government have been much too unconstrained and Trump will likely empower them
American middle East foreign policy hasn't brought any peace. Including the toppling of the Iranian government in the 70s that helped Iran become what it is today.
I don't think the Americans care what unexpected consequences would occur either "On the contrary, the USA has been great allies with countries in the Middle East, Egypt, Jordan and Saudi Arabia too. Whilst they made great strides at the Camp David Accords which were attended ed by Bahrain, the UAE and Morrocco. It's quite likely that these states prefer their relationship with Israel more than with any relationship with Iran. That's one of the reason that Jordan took an active part in assisting Israel against the first missile act by Iran in this current war. Jordan also provided assistant to the Allied Forces during the 2nd Gulf War. So I'd suggest that American-Arab relationship are positive, you just need to look out for it and they have certainly helped in a peace keeping role in parts of this region. The parts that don't have much to do with murderous, terrorist, bustards it seems. Mrs x | |||
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"The interesting part of this story is Trump's middle east envoy, Steve Witkoff is already conducting negotiations. It would be an absolutely amazing outcome if this conflict is resolved when he gets into office. I can't see what else trump could do to Gaza and the Palestinians that Israel hasn't already done. Gaza and Palestinians are not the puppet masters. Sanctioning Iran right now will bite and they can't afford any unrest from their citizens. There is more than 1 way to skin a cat. Depends on how/if Iran has any control of Hamas. Support yes but control? Regime change hasn't usually worked with unexpected consequences so yet more conflict in in the middle east perhaps? Iran pull the strings of Hamas, they provoked October 7th attacks, funded it and trained Hamas. Iran's aim was to destabilise Israel who were in talks with Saudi ref, normalising relations. This was also being supported by the US. Can you supply sources that Iran "ordered" the 7 October attacks? I also see no logic in the 7 October attacks changing Saudi"s decision to normalise relations so would like to see more on that I’m not going to get drawn into a long if, but and maybe. Iran trained Hamas, arm them and fund them. I didn’t say Iran ordered the attack. Iran was upset on 2 fronts, oil sanctions, withdrawal from the nuclear program. Both of these events led to attacks on shipping and the Royal Marines boarding a ship. The US can bring them back in from the wilderness if they wish, and if they do it will cease the conflict. " I think that's a little simplistic to suggest that the war could be ended by Irans inclusion back into the diplomatic community. Whilst Iran does, fund, train and arm Hamas, they only do so because of their common hatered of Israel and the Jews. Other than this they found differing beliefs on many religious grounds, Hamas being Sunni whilst Iran are predominantly Shiite. These differences were highlighted in 2012 when relationship between the Terror group and Iran broke down as Hamas sided with the Sunni rebels and Iran supported the Assad, Shiite, regime. It's for this reason that I don't think what you are suggesting will come to fruition. Currently the relationship is one of convenience against a common enemy, much like that of Rissia and the Allies when they fought the Nazis. When that was over, allies became enemies during the Cold War and I can see that happening here. Their religious dogma will not allow a cordial relationship in the absence of a common foe. I do believe you are right about the other things you said about oth we countries wanting to 'normalise' their relationship with Israel and your reasoning about why Iran is so annoyed with the US is spot on, but the removal of sanctions won't be a precursor to peace, if it wasn't for the Israelis and the Jews they still be trying to kill each other over their dogmatic adherence to religious extremism. Mrs x | |||
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"The interesting part of this story is Trump's middle east envoy, Steve Witkoff is already conducting negotiations. It would be an absolutely amazing outcome if this conflict is resolved when he gets into office. I can't see what else trump could do to Gaza and the Palestinians that Israel hasn't already done. Gaza and Palestinians are not the puppet masters. Sanctioning Iran right now will bite and they can't afford any unrest from their citizens. There is more than 1 way to skin a cat. Depends on how/if Iran has any control of Hamas. Support yes but control? Regime change hasn't usually worked with unexpected consequences so yet more conflict in in the middle east perhaps? Iran pull the strings of Hamas, they provoked October 7th attacks, funded it and trained Hamas. Iran's aim was to destabilise Israel who were in talks with Saudi ref, normalising relations. This was also being supported by the US. Can you supply sources that Iran "ordered" the 7 October attacks? I also see no logic in the 7 October attacks changing Saudi"s decision to normalise relations so would like to see more on that I’m not going to get drawn into a long if, but and maybe. Iran trained Hamas, arm them and fund them. I didn’t say Iran ordered the attack. Iran was upset on 2 fronts, oil sanctions, withdrawal from the nuclear program. Both of these events led to attacks on shipping and the Royal Marines boarding a ship. The US can bring them back in from the wilderness if they wish, and if they do it will cease the conflict. " I can see a much better alternative. Bring who in from the wilderness? Is that the Gazans (the ones that haven't bwen starved or frozen to death) to go back to pre- 7 October and be routinely oppressed? Or do you mean Iran, who have been shafted over having agreements being broken that they honoured with the nuclear deal by America? Besides having a peaceful government been toppled in the 70s by the CIA because they wouldn't do American bidding which ended up with a regime in Iran as it is now? As for not getting into the if but and maybe - I don't blame you. Because after all the messing about in the middle east that's been done by the USA UK and others that's left million plus dead - I think I can bet you that the next round of meddling won't end well | |||
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"The interesting part of this story is Trump's middle east envoy, Steve Witkoff is already conducting negotiations. It would be an absolutely amazing outcome if this conflict is resolved when he gets into office. I can't see what else trump could do to Gaza and the Palestinians that Israel hasn't already done. Gaza and Palestinians are not the puppet masters. Sanctioning Iran right now will bite and they can't afford any unrest from their citizens. There is more than 1 way to skin a cat. Depends on how/if Iran has any control of Hamas. Support yes but control? Regime change hasn't usually worked with unexpected consequences so yet more conflict in in the middle east perhaps? Iran pull the strings of Hamas, they provoked October 7th attacks, funded it and trained Hamas. Iran's aim was to destabilise Israel who were in talks with Saudi ref, normalising relations. This was also being supported by the US. Can you supply sources that Iran "ordered" the 7 October attacks? I also see no logic in the 7 October attacks changing Saudi"s decision to normalise relations so would like to see more on that I’m not going to get drawn into a long if, but and maybe. Iran trained Hamas, arm them and fund them. I didn’t say Iran ordered the attack. Iran was upset on 2 fronts, oil sanctions, withdrawal from the nuclear program. Both of these events led to attacks on shipping and the Royal Marines boarding a ship. The US can bring them back in from the wilderness if they wish, and if they do it will cease the conflict. I can see a much better alternative. Bring who in from the wilderness? Is that the Gazans (the ones that haven't bwen starved or frozen to death) to go back to pre- 7 October and be routinely oppressed? Or do you mean Iran, who have been shafted over having agreements being broken that they honoured with the nuclear deal by America? Besides having a peaceful government been toppled in the 70s by the CIA because they wouldn't do American bidding which ended up with a regime in Iran as it is now? As for not getting into the if but and maybe - I don't blame you. Because after all the messing about in the middle east that's been done by the USA UK and others that's left million plus dead - I think I can bet you that the next round of meddling won't end well " USA done quite a good job of providing peace and security in the Middle East, that's why they have allies there, just not with terrorists, Mrs x | |||
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"The interesting part of this story is Trump's middle east envoy, Steve Witkoff is already conducting negotiations. It would be an absolutely amazing outcome if this conflict is resolved when he gets into office. I can't see what else trump could do to Gaza and the Palestinians that Israel hasn't already done. Gaza and Palestinians are not the puppet masters. Sanctioning Iran right now will bite and they can't afford any unrest from their citizens. There is more than 1 way to skin a cat. Depends on how/if Iran has any control of Hamas. Support yes but control? Regime change hasn't usually worked with unexpected consequences so yet more conflict in in the middle east perhaps? Iran pull the strings of Hamas, they provoked October 7th attacks, funded it and trained Hamas. Iran's aim was to destabilise Israel who were in talks with Saudi ref, normalising relations. This was also being supported by the US. Can you supply sources that Iran "ordered" the 7 October attacks? I also see no logic in the 7 October attacks changing Saudi"s decision to normalise relations so would like to see more on that I’m not going to get drawn into a long if, but and maybe. Iran trained Hamas, arm them and fund them. I didn’t say Iran ordered the attack. Iran was upset on 2 fronts, oil sanctions, withdrawal from the nuclear program. Both of these events led to attacks on shipping and the Royal Marines boarding a ship. The US can bring them back in from the wilderness if they wish, and if they do it will cease the conflict. I can see a much better alternative. Bring who in from the wilderness? Is that the Gazans (the ones that haven't bwen starved or frozen to death) to go back to pre- 7 October and be routinely oppressed? Or do you mean Iran, who have been shafted over having agreements being broken that they honoured with the nuclear deal by America? Besides having a peaceful government been toppled in the 70s by the CIA because they wouldn't do American bidding which ended up with a regime in Iran as it is now? As for not getting into the if but and maybe - I don't blame you. Because after all the messing about in the middle east that's been done by the USA UK and others that's left million plus dead - I think I can bet you that the next round of meddling won't end well USA done quite a good job of providing peace and security in the Middle East, that's why they have allies there, just not with terrorists, Mrs x" What allies exactly? | |||
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"The interesting part of this story is Trump's middle east envoy, Steve Witkoff is already conducting negotiations. It would be an absolutely amazing outcome if this conflict is resolved when he gets into office. I can't see what else trump could do to Gaza and the Palestinians that Israel hasn't already done. Gaza and Palestinians are not the puppet masters. Sanctioning Iran right now will bite and they can't afford any unrest from their citizens. There is more than 1 way to skin a cat. Depends on how/if Iran has any control of Hamas. Support yes but control? Regime change hasn't usually worked with unexpected consequences so yet more conflict in in the middle east perhaps? Iran pull the strings of Hamas, they provoked October 7th attacks, funded it and trained Hamas. Iran's aim was to destabilise Israel who were in talks with Saudi ref, normalising relations. This was also being supported by the US. Can you supply sources that Iran "ordered" the 7 October attacks? I also see no logic in the 7 October attacks changing Saudi"s decision to normalise relations so would like to see more on that I’m not going to get drawn into a long if, but and maybe. Iran trained Hamas, arm them and fund them. I didn’t say Iran ordered the attack. Iran was upset on 2 fronts, oil sanctions, withdrawal from the nuclear program. Both of these events led to attacks on shipping and the Royal Marines boarding a ship. The US can bring them back in from the wilderness if they wish, and if they do it will cease the conflict. I can see a much better alternative. Bring who in from the wilderness? Is that the Gazans (the ones that haven't bwen starved or frozen to death) to go back to pre- 7 October and be routinely oppressed? Or do you mean Iran, who have been shafted over having agreements being broken that they honoured with the nuclear deal by America? Besides having a peaceful government been toppled in the 70s by the CIA because they wouldn't do American bidding which ended up with a regime in Iran as it is now? As for not getting into the if but and maybe - I don't blame you. Because after all the messing about in the middle east that's been done by the USA UK and others that's left million plus dead - I think I can bet you that the next round of meddling won't end well USA done quite a good job of providing peace and security in the Middle East, that's why they have allies there, just not with terrorists, Mrs x What allies exactly?" Saudi, Egypt, Jordan, to name a few, Mrs x | |||
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"The interesting part of this story is Trump's middle east envoy, Steve Witkoff is already conducting negotiations. It would be an absolutely amazing outcome if this conflict is resolved when he gets into office. I can't see what else trump could do to Gaza and the Palestinians that Israel hasn't already done. Gaza and Palestinians are not the puppet masters. Sanctioning Iran right now will bite and they can't afford any unrest from their citizens. There is more than 1 way to skin a cat. Depends on how/if Iran has any control of Hamas. Support yes but control? Regime change hasn't usually worked with unexpected consequences so yet more conflict in in the middle east perhaps? Iran pull the strings of Hamas, they provoked October 7th attacks, funded it and trained Hamas. Iran's aim was to destabilise Israel who were in talks with Saudi ref, normalising relations. This was also being supported by the US. Can you supply sources that Iran "ordered" the 7 October attacks? I also see no logic in the 7 October attacks changing Saudi"s decision to normalise relations so would like to see more on that I’m not going to get drawn into a long if, but and maybe. Iran trained Hamas, arm them and fund them. I didn’t say Iran ordered the attack. Iran was upset on 2 fronts, oil sanctions, withdrawal from the nuclear program. Both of these events led to attacks on shipping and the Royal Marines boarding a ship. The US can bring them back in from the wilderness if they wish, and if they do it will cease the conflict. I can see a much better alternative. Bring who in from the wilderness? Is that the Gazans (the ones that haven't bwen starved or frozen to death) to go back to pre- 7 October and be routinely oppressed? Or do you mean Iran, who have been shafted over having agreements being broken that they honoured with the nuclear deal by America? Besides having a peaceful government been toppled in the 70s by the CIA because they wouldn't do American bidding which ended up with a regime in Iran as it is now? As for not getting into the if but and maybe - I don't blame you. Because after all the messing about in the middle east that's been done by the USA UK and others that's left million plus dead - I think I can bet you that the next round of meddling won't end well USA done quite a good job of providing peace and security in the Middle East, that's why they have allies there, just not with terrorists, Mrs x What allies exactly?Saudi, Egypt, Jordan, to name a few, Mrs x" Ah yes the beacons of democracy and human and equal rights. | |||
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"The interesting part of this story is Trump's middle east envoy, Steve Witkoff is already conducting negotiations. It would be an absolutely amazing outcome if this conflict is resolved when he gets into office. I can't see what else trump could do to Gaza and the Palestinians that Israel hasn't already done. Gaza and Palestinians are not the puppet masters. Sanctioning Iran right now will bite and they can't afford any unrest from their citizens. There is more than 1 way to skin a cat. Depends on how/if Iran has any control of Hamas. Support yes but control? Regime change hasn't usually worked with unexpected consequences so yet more conflict in in the middle east perhaps? Iran pull the strings of Hamas, they provoked October 7th attacks, funded it and trained Hamas. Iran's aim was to destabilise Israel who were in talks with Saudi ref, normalising relations. This was also being supported by the US. Can you supply sources that Iran "ordered" the 7 October attacks? I also see no logic in the 7 October attacks changing Saudi"s decision to normalise relations so would like to see more on that I’m not going to get drawn into a long if, but and maybe. Iran trained Hamas, arm them and fund them. I didn’t say Iran ordered the attack. Iran was upset on 2 fronts, oil sanctions, withdrawal from the nuclear program. Both of these events led to attacks on shipping and the Royal Marines boarding a ship. The US can bring them back in from the wilderness if they wish, and if they do it will cease the conflict. I can see a much better alternative. Bring who in from the wilderness? Is that the Gazans (the ones that haven't bwen starved or frozen to death) to go back to pre- 7 October and be routinely oppressed? Or do you mean Iran, who have been shafted over having agreements being broken that they honoured with the nuclear deal by America? Besides having a peaceful government been toppled in the 70s by the CIA because they wouldn't do American bidding which ended up with a regime in Iran as it is now? As for not getting into the if but and maybe - I don't blame you. Because after all the messing about in the middle east that's been done by the USA UK and others that's left million plus dead - I think I can bet you that the next round of meddling won't end well USA done quite a good job of providing peace and security in the Middle East, that's why they have allies there, just not with terrorists, Mrs x What allies exactly?Saudi, Egypt, Jordan, to name a few, Mrs x Ah yes the beacons of democracy and human and equal rights. " Who? Hamas, Hezbollah, Fatah, PLO, Houthis, Iran, you mean those beacons? Mrs x | |||
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"The interesting part of this story is Trump's middle east envoy, Steve Witkoff is already conducting negotiations. It would be an absolutely amazing outcome if this conflict is resolved when he gets into office. I can't see what else trump could do to Gaza and the Palestinians that Israel hasn't already done. Gaza and Palestinians are not the puppet masters. Sanctioning Iran right now will bite and they can't afford any unrest from their citizens. There is more than 1 way to skin a cat. Depends on how/if Iran has any control of Hamas. Support yes but control? Regime change hasn't usually worked with unexpected consequences so yet more conflict in in the middle east perhaps? Iran pull the strings of Hamas, they provoked October 7th attacks, funded it and trained Hamas. Iran's aim was to destabilise Israel who were in talks with Saudi ref, normalising relations. This was also being supported by the US. Can you supply sources that Iran "ordered" the 7 October attacks? I also see no logic in the 7 October attacks changing Saudi"s decision to normalise relations so would like to see more on that I’m not going to get drawn into a long if, but and maybe. Iran trained Hamas, arm them and fund them. I didn’t say Iran ordered the attack. Iran was upset on 2 fronts, oil sanctions, withdrawal from the nuclear program. Both of these events led to attacks on shipping and the Royal Marines boarding a ship. The US can bring them back in from the wilderness if they wish, and if they do it will cease the conflict. I can see a much better alternative. Bring who in from the wilderness? Is that the Gazans (the ones that haven't bwen starved or frozen to death) to go back to pre- 7 October and be routinely oppressed? Or do you mean Iran, who have been shafted over having agreements being broken that they honoured with the nuclear deal by America? Besides having a peaceful government been toppled in the 70s by the CIA because they wouldn't do American bidding which ended up with a regime in Iran as it is now? As for not getting into the if but and maybe - I don't blame you. Because after all the messing about in the middle east that's been done by the USA UK and others that's left million plus dead - I think I can bet you that the next round of meddling won't end well USA done quite a good job of providing peace and security in the Middle East, that's why they have allies there, just not with terrorists, Mrs x What allies exactly?Saudi, Egypt, Jordan, to name a few, Mrs x Ah yes the beacons of democracy and human and equal rights. Who? Hamas, Hezbollah, Fatah, PLO, Houthis, Iran, you mean those beacons? Mrs x" If you can work it out, all you've mentioned are the results of American policy. You've missed out Isis from your list too btw, another product of America, The X factor, the randomness of variable unintended consequences when meddling | |||
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"The interesting part of this story is Trump's middle east envoy, Steve Witkoff is already conducting negotiations. It would be an absolutely amazing outcome if this conflict is resolved when he gets into office. I can't see what else trump could do to Gaza and the Palestinians that Israel hasn't already done. Gaza and Palestinians are not the puppet masters. Sanctioning Iran right now will bite and they can't afford any unrest from their citizens. There is more than 1 way to skin a cat. Depends on how/if Iran has any control of Hamas. Support yes but control? Regime change hasn't usually worked with unexpected consequences so yet more conflict in in the middle east perhaps? Iran pull the strings of Hamas, they provoked October 7th attacks, funded it and trained Hamas. Iran's aim was to destabilise Israel who were in talks with Saudi ref, normalising relations. This was also being supported by the US. Can you supply sources that Iran "ordered" the 7 October attacks? I also see no logic in the 7 October attacks changing Saudi"s decision to normalise relations so would like to see more on that I’m not going to get drawn into a long if, but and maybe. Iran trained Hamas, arm them and fund them. I didn’t say Iran ordered the attack. Iran was upset on 2 fronts, oil sanctions, withdrawal from the nuclear program. Both of these events led to attacks on shipping and the Royal Marines boarding a ship. The US can bring them back in from the wilderness if they wish, and if they do it will cease the conflict. I can see a much better alternative. Bring who in from the wilderness? Is that the Gazans (the ones that haven't bwen starved or frozen to death) to go back to pre- 7 October and be routinely oppressed? Or do you mean Iran, who have been shafted over having agreements being broken that they honoured with the nuclear deal by America? Besides having a peaceful government been toppled in the 70s by the CIA because they wouldn't do American bidding which ended up with a regime in Iran as it is now? As for not getting into the if but and maybe - I don't blame you. Because after all the messing about in the middle east that's been done by the USA UK and others that's left million plus dead - I think I can bet you that the next round of meddling won't end well USA done quite a good job of providing peace and security in the Middle East, that's why they have allies there, just not with terrorists, Mrs x What allies exactly?Saudi, Egypt, Jordan, to name a few, Mrs x Ah yes the beacons of democracy and human and equal rights. Who? Hamas, Hezbollah, Fatah, PLO, Houthis, Iran, you mean those beacons? Mrs x" After all these terrorist groups you've mentioned (as a result of American foreign policy) the Iraq and Afghan wars with millions dead. The unintended creation of Isis through American lead wars - Can you tell me what benefits you think we've had and how continuing down the road of whipping up more conflict benefits everyone? | |||
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"The interesting part of this story is Trump's middle east envoy, Steve Witkoff is already conducting negotiations. It would be an absolutely amazing outcome if this conflict is resolved when he gets into office. I can't see what else trump could do to Gaza and the Palestinians that Israel hasn't already done. Gaza and Palestinians are not the puppet masters. Sanctioning Iran right now will bite and they can't afford any unrest from their citizens. There is more than 1 way to skin a cat. Depends on how/if Iran has any control of Hamas. Support yes but control? Regime change hasn't usually worked with unexpected consequences so yet more conflict in in the middle east perhaps? Iran pull the strings of Hamas, they provoked October 7th attacks, funded it and trained Hamas. Iran's aim was to destabilise Israel who were in talks with Saudi ref, normalising relations. This was also being supported by the US. Can you supply sources that Iran "ordered" the 7 October attacks? I also see no logic in the 7 October attacks changing Saudi"s decision to normalise relations so would like to see more on that I’m not going to get drawn into a long if, but and maybe. Iran trained Hamas, arm them and fund them. I didn’t say Iran ordered the attack. Iran was upset on 2 fronts, oil sanctions, withdrawal from the nuclear program. Both of these events led to attacks on shipping and the Royal Marines boarding a ship. The US can bring them back in from the wilderness if they wish, and if they do it will cease the conflict. I can see a much better alternative. Bring who in from the wilderness? Is that the Gazans (the ones that haven't bwen starved or frozen to death) to go back to pre- 7 October and be routinely oppressed? Or do you mean Iran, who have been shafted over having agreements being broken that they honoured with the nuclear deal by America? Besides having a peaceful government been toppled in the 70s by the CIA because they wouldn't do American bidding which ended up with a regime in Iran as it is now? As for not getting into the if but and maybe - I don't blame you. Because after all the messing about in the middle east that's been done by the USA UK and others that's left million plus dead - I think I can bet you that the next round of meddling won't end well USA done quite a good job of providing peace and security in the Middle East, that's why they have allies there, just not with terrorists, Mrs x What allies exactly?Saudi, Egypt, Jordan, to name a few, Mrs x Ah yes the beacons of democracy and human and equal rights. Who? Hamas, Hezbollah, Fatah, PLO, Houthis, Iran, you mean those beacons? Mrs x If you can work it out, all you've mentioned are the results of American policy. You've missed out Isis from your list too btw, another product of America, The X factor, the randomness of variable unintended consequences when meddling " What? The X factor? Did they do Britain's got Talent haha. You've missed out since the very dawn of Islam, they have been killing and slaughtering each other in numbers that are vastly larger than anything in Gaza. In Yemen and Syria, more than 10 times the victims, 10 times but you are OK with that because it's all Muslim deaths, committed by Muslims, so no Jews to blame. So 20 times the number of victims in these two conflicts and you are silent on the issue, because Jews weren't involved and you don't know who to blame. 500,000 deaths and you are silent. You happy to be starting again, Dan? Mrs x | |||
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"The interesting part of this story is Trump's middle east envoy, Steve Witkoff is already conducting negotiations. It would be an absolutely amazing outcome if this conflict is resolved when he gets into office. I can't see what else trump could do to Gaza and the Palestinians that Israel hasn't already done. Gaza and Palestinians are not the puppet masters. Sanctioning Iran right now will bite and they can't afford any unrest from their citizens. There is more than 1 way to skin a cat. Depends on how/if Iran has any control of Hamas. Support yes but control? Regime change hasn't usually worked with unexpected consequences so yet more conflict in in the middle east perhaps? Iran pull the strings of Hamas, they provoked October 7th attacks, funded it and trained Hamas. Iran's aim was to destabilise Israel who were in talks with Saudi ref, normalising relations. This was also being supported by the US. Can you supply sources that Iran "ordered" the 7 October attacks? I also see no logic in the 7 October attacks changing Saudi"s decision to normalise relations so would like to see more on that I’m not going to get drawn into a long if, but and maybe. Iran trained Hamas, arm them and fund them. I didn’t say Iran ordered the attack. Iran was upset on 2 fronts, oil sanctions, withdrawal from the nuclear program. Both of these events led to attacks on shipping and the Royal Marines boarding a ship. The US can bring them back in from the wilderness if they wish, and if they do it will cease the conflict. I can see a much better alternative. Bring who in from the wilderness? Is that the Gazans (the ones that haven't bwen starved or frozen to death) to go back to pre- 7 October and be routinely oppressed? Or do you mean Iran, who have been shafted over having agreements being broken that they honoured with the nuclear deal by America? Besides having a peaceful government been toppled in the 70s by the CIA because they wouldn't do American bidding which ended up with a regime in Iran as it is now? As for not getting into the if but and maybe - I don't blame you. Because after all the messing about in the middle east that's been done by the USA UK and others that's left million plus dead - I think I can bet you that the next round of meddling won't end well USA done quite a good job of providing peace and security in the Middle East, that's why they have allies there, just not with terrorists, Mrs x What allies exactly?Saudi, Egypt, Jordan, to name a few, Mrs x Ah yes the beacons of democracy and human and equal rights. Who? Hamas, Hezbollah, Fatah, PLO, Houthis, Iran, you mean those beacons? Mrs x If you can work it out, all you've mentioned are the results of American policy. You've missed out Isis from your list too btw, another product of America, The X factor, the randomness of variable unintended consequences when meddling What? The X factor? Did they do Britain's got Talent haha. You've missed out since the very dawn of Islam, they have been killing and slaughtering each other in numbers that are vastly larger than anything in Gaza. In Yemen and Syria, more than 10 times the victims, 10 times but you are OK with that because it's all Muslim deaths, committed by Muslims, so no Jews to blame. So 20 times the number of victims in these two conflicts and you are silent on the issue, because Jews weren't involved and you don't know who to blame. 500,000 deaths and you are silent. You happy to be starting again, Dan? Mrs x" All this death and destruction is not a product of America, it's a product of Islamic Extremists, Muslim terrorists attacking other Muslims and they have been doing this for an eon. For over a thousand years before America even existed but yeah, let's not mention the murderous Muslim terrorist, blame it all on the Yanks and the Jews, even when they are not involved. Mrs x | |||
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"The interesting part of this story is Trump's middle east envoy, Steve Witkoff is already conducting negotiations. It would be an absolutely amazing outcome if this conflict is resolved when he gets into office. I can't see what else trump could do to Gaza and the Palestinians that Israel hasn't already done. Gaza and Palestinians are not the puppet masters. Sanctioning Iran right now will bite and they can't afford any unrest from their citizens. There is more than 1 way to skin a cat. Depends on how/if Iran has any control of Hamas. Support yes but control? Regime change hasn't usually worked with unexpected consequences so yet more conflict in in the middle east perhaps? Iran pull the strings of Hamas, they provoked October 7th attacks, funded it and trained Hamas. Iran's aim was to destabilise Israel who were in talks with Saudi ref, normalising relations. This was also being supported by the US. Can you supply sources that Iran "ordered" the 7 October attacks? I also see no logic in the 7 October attacks changing Saudi"s decision to normalise relations so would like to see more on that I’m not going to get drawn into a long if, but and maybe. Iran trained Hamas, arm them and fund them. I didn’t say Iran ordered the attack. Iran was upset on 2 fronts, oil sanctions, withdrawal from the nuclear program. Both of these events led to attacks on shipping and the Royal Marines boarding a ship. The US can bring them back in from the wilderness if they wish, and if they do it will cease the conflict. I can see a much better alternative. Bring who in from the wilderness? Is that the Gazans (the ones that haven't bwen starved or frozen to death) to go back to pre- 7 October and be routinely oppressed? Or do you mean Iran, who have been shafted over having agreements being broken that they honoured with the nuclear deal by America? Besides having a peaceful government been toppled in the 70s by the CIA because they wouldn't do American bidding which ended up with a regime in Iran as it is now? As for not getting into the if but and maybe - I don't blame you. Because after all the messing about in the middle east that's been done by the USA UK and others that's left million plus dead - I think I can bet you that the next round of meddling won't end well USA done quite a good job of providing peace and security in the Middle East, that's why they have allies there, just not with terrorists, Mrs x What allies exactly?Saudi, Egypt, Jordan, to name a few, Mrs x Ah yes the beacons of democracy and human and equal rights. Who? Hamas, Hezbollah, Fatah, PLO, Houthis, Iran, you mean those beacons? Mrs x If you can work it out, all you've mentioned are the results of American policy. You've missed out Isis from your list too btw, another product of America, The X factor, the randomness of variable unintended consequences when meddling What? The X factor? Did they do Britain's got Talent haha. You've missed out since the very dawn of Islam, they have been killing and slaughtering each other in numbers that are vastly larger than anything in Gaza. In Yemen and Syria, more than 10 times the victims, 10 times but you are OK with that because it's all Muslim deaths, committed by Muslims, so no Jews to blame. So 20 times the number of victims in these two conflicts and you are silent on the issue, because Jews weren't involved and you don't know who to blame. 500,000 deaths and you are silent. You happy to be starting again, Dan? Mrs x" ----- X factor as in the unknown result, a phrase borrowed by TV. Christians have and still kill each other and slaughtered many in the past. Btw there are Christians dying in Gaza. Is what your saying justifying the killing babies kids? I'm not ok with Yemen and Syria and Somalia where conflict has been shipped up by American forces. You mentioned the Jews. Lots of Jews don't agree with the Zionist movement as I do. Oh I have a good idea who to blame and sorry to disappoint you. What I blame is the conceit of people in power and their ability to justify war as many do. It's found in all corners of the globe. It's brought about over a million Iraqi deaths besides your figures. And your calling me Dan again. Is that some colloquial insult from Ireland? Are you naturally rude or is it because you have nothing meaningful to reply with? | |||
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"The interesting part of this story is Trump's middle east envoy, Steve Witkoff is already conducting negotiations. It would be an absolutely amazing outcome if this conflict is resolved when he gets into office." A wise man does not make threats. He simple informs you of the consequence's of your actions  | |||
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"The interesting part of this story is Trump's middle east envoy, Steve Witkoff is already conducting negotiations. It would be an absolutely amazing outcome if this conflict is resolved when he gets into office. I can't see what else trump could do to Gaza and the Palestinians that Israel hasn't already done. Gaza and Palestinians are not the puppet masters. Sanctioning Iran right now will bite and they can't afford any unrest from their citizens. There is more than 1 way to skin a cat. Depends on how/if Iran has any control of Hamas. Support yes but control? Regime change hasn't usually worked with unexpected consequences so yet more conflict in in the middle east perhaps? Iran pull the strings of Hamas, they provoked October 7th attacks, funded it and trained Hamas. Iran's aim was to destabilise Israel who were in talks with Saudi ref, normalising relations. This was also being supported by the US. Can you supply sources that Iran "ordered" the 7 October attacks? I also see no logic in the 7 October attacks changing Saudi"s decision to normalise relations so would like to see more on that I’m not going to get drawn into a long if, but and maybe. Iran trained Hamas, arm them and fund them. I didn’t say Iran ordered the attack. Iran was upset on 2 fronts, oil sanctions, withdrawal from the nuclear program. Both of these events led to attacks on shipping and the Royal Marines boarding a ship. The US can bring them back in from the wilderness if they wish, and if they do it will cease the conflict. I can see a much better alternative. Bring who in from the wilderness? Is that the Gazans (the ones that haven't bwen starved or frozen to death) to go back to pre- 7 October and be routinely oppressed? Or do you mean Iran, who have been shafted over having agreements being broken that they honoured with the nuclear deal by America? Besides having a peaceful government been toppled in the 70s by the CIA because they wouldn't do American bidding which ended up with a regime in Iran as it is now? As for not getting into the if but and maybe - I don't blame you. Because after all the messing about in the middle east that's been done by the USA UK and others that's left million plus dead - I think I can bet you that the next round of meddling won't end well USA done quite a good job of providing peace and security in the Middle East, that's why they have allies there, just not with terrorists, Mrs x What allies exactly?Saudi, Egypt, Jordan, to name a few, Mrs x Ah yes the beacons of democracy and human and equal rights. Who? Hamas, Hezbollah, Fatah, PLO, Houthis, Iran, you mean those beacons? Mrs x If you can work it out, all you've mentioned are the results of American policy. You've missed out Isis from your list too btw, another product of America, The X factor, the randomness of variable unintended consequences when meddling What? The X factor? Did they do Britain's got Talent haha. You've missed out since the very dawn of Islam, they have been killing and slaughtering each other in numbers that are vastly larger than anything in Gaza. In Yemen and Syria, more than 10 times the victims, 10 times but you are OK with that because it's all Muslim deaths, committed by Muslims, so no Jews to blame. So 20 times the number of victims in these two conflicts and you are silent on the issue, because Jews weren't involved and you don't know who to blame. 500,000 deaths and you are silent. You happy to be starting again, Dan? Mrs x ----- X factor as in the unknown result, a phrase borrowed by TV. Christians have and still kill each other and slaughtered many in the past. Btw there are Christians dying in Gaza. Is what your saying justifying the killing babies kids? I'm not ok with Yemen and Syria and Somalia where conflict has been shipped up by American forces. You mentioned the Jews. Lots of Jews don't agree with the Zionist movement as I do. Oh I have a good idea who to blame and sorry to disappoint you. What I blame is the conceit of people in power and their ability to justify war as many do. It's found in all corners of the globe. It's brought about over a million Iraqi deaths besides your figures. And your calling me Dan again. Is that some colloquial insult from Ireland? Are you naturally rude or is it because you have nothing meaningful to reply with? " As for all this, he said she said! I spoke with a jewish man. Very nice man. I dont deal with what the BBC and other media sources that put their lies and the lies of "other powerful people" on the front page. Anyway! I asked him how it all started. Muslim's killed thousands of innocent people at a _estival. Some the jews hit them hard as a result! Free free palastine! (It was free, but they F.A. & F.O) Unsure how waving a flag on the street of britian is going to save palastine tho | |||
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"The interesting part of this story is Trump's middle east envoy, Steve Witkoff is already conducting negotiations. It would be an absolutely amazing outcome if this conflict is resolved when he gets into office. I can't see what else trump could do to Gaza and the Palestinians that Israel hasn't already done. Gaza and Palestinians are not the puppet masters. Sanctioning Iran right now will bite and they can't afford any unrest from their citizens. There is more than 1 way to skin a cat. Depends on how/if Iran has any control of Hamas. Support yes but control? Regime change hasn't usually worked with unexpected consequences so yet more conflict in in the middle east perhaps? Iran pull the strings of Hamas, they provoked October 7th attacks, funded it and trained Hamas. Iran's aim was to destabilise Israel who were in talks with Saudi ref, normalising relations. This was also being supported by the US. Can you supply sources that Iran "ordered" the 7 October attacks? I also see no logic in the 7 October attacks changing Saudi"s decision to normalise relations so would like to see more on that I’m not going to get drawn into a long if, but and maybe. Iran trained Hamas, arm them and fund them. I didn’t say Iran ordered the attack. Iran was upset on 2 fronts, oil sanctions, withdrawal from the nuclear program. Both of these events led to attacks on shipping and the Royal Marines boarding a ship. The US can bring them back in from the wilderness if they wish, and if they do it will cease the conflict. I can see a much better alternative. Bring who in from the wilderness? Is that the Gazans (the ones that haven't bwen starved or frozen to death) to go back to pre- 7 October and be routinely oppressed? Or do you mean Iran, who have been shafted over having agreements being broken that they honoured with the nuclear deal by America? Besides having a peaceful government been toppled in the 70s by the CIA because they wouldn't do American bidding which ended up with a regime in Iran as it is now? As for not getting into the if but and maybe - I don't blame you. Because after all the messing about in the middle east that's been done by the USA UK and others that's left million plus dead - I think I can bet you that the next round of meddling won't end well USA done quite a good job of providing peace and security in the Middle East, that's why they have allies there, just not with terrorists, Mrs x What allies exactly?Saudi, Egypt, Jordan, to name a few, Mrs x Ah yes the beacons of democracy and human and equal rights. Who? Hamas, Hezbollah, Fatah, PLO, Houthis, Iran, you mean those beacons? Mrs x If you can work it out, all you've mentioned are the results of American policy. You've missed out Isis from your list too btw, another product of America, The X factor, the randomness of variable unintended consequences when meddling What? The X factor? Did they do Britain's got Talent haha. You've missed out since the very dawn of Islam, they have been killing and slaughtering each other in numbers that are vastly larger than anything in Gaza. In Yemen and Syria, more than 10 times the victims, 10 times but you are OK with that because it's all Muslim deaths, committed by Muslims, so no Jews to blame. So 20 times the number of victims in these two conflicts and you are silent on the issue, because Jews weren't involved and you don't know who to blame. 500,000 deaths and you are silent. You happy to be starting again, Dan? Mrs x ----- X factor as in the unknown result, a phrase borrowed by TV. Christians have and still kill each other and slaughtered many in the past. Btw there are Christians dying in Gaza. Is what your saying justifying the killing babies kids? I'm not ok with Yemen and Syria and Somalia where conflict has been shipped up by American forces. You mentioned the Jews. Lots of Jews don't agree with the Zionist movement as I do. Oh I have a good idea who to blame and sorry to disappoint you. What I blame is the conceit of people in power and their ability to justify war as many do. It's found in all corners of the globe. It's brought about over a million Iraqi deaths besides your figures. And your calling me Dan again. Is that some colloquial insult from Ireland? Are you naturally rude or is it because you have nothing meaningful to reply with? " The difference between Christian waging war and Muslim acts of terror is that Muslim terrorist, is that Muslim terrorist are committing g acts of terror in the name of their religion, using dogma to justify their evil aims. Christians havent waged a religious war for a very long time now and they fight on secular grounds, normally along national lines. They also do not think its ok to behead people, throw gays off roofs and burn babies alive in ovens. I think that makes a fundamental difference. To wage war in the defence of your country as opposed to committing murder, r@pe and burning imfants alive because you choose to corrupt a religious text to give you divine authority to commit such atrocities. As for the 'conceit of people in power and their ability to justify war as many do.' I don't think it's conceit after the horrific events of Oct 7th. In fact America went to war in WW1, after an attack on their civilians resulting in less than 2 hundred American deaths. The attack on Pearl Harbour result in more deaths than that of Oct 7th but o ly in the hundreds, not thousands. America joined a world war after this and this terrible act was committed by another nations whole fleet and Naval Air Arm. Hamas, the evil murdering g bastards, killed more than half as many using hang gliders. So what Hamas did on Oct 7th was more than justification for another nation to declare war on them, nothing conceited about such a decision. As for tge numbers killed, it's over a million in Yemen and Syria, 500,000 in each conflict. Mrs x | |||
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"Do you propose even more war and more conflict instead of being able to talk and reach compromise. It worked for Ireland. Not perfect but a hell of a lot better over there now - don't you agree?" You obviously know nothing or little about Khartoum, or the Canp David Accords. The Jews have offered peace and solutions to the Palestinian issue on 5 times previously and the Palestinians have refused to discuss this. But yeah it's all the Jews fault. Mrs x | |||
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"The Jews have offered peace and solutions to the Palestinian issue on 5 times previously and the Palestinians have refused to discuss this. But yeah it's all the Jews fault. Mrs x" And Palestine were willing to accept those deals until Israel would change it saying they would still control the land, sea and air so basically the blockade would continue and the open air prison as described by the UN would continue. Netanyahu is on record asking people to fund hamas, he wanted this attack so he could invade fully. What do you think drove Hamas to October 7th? Do you think they woke up that morning and decided on a whim to attack or do you think it had anything to do with the ethnic cleansing and oppression for the last 70 years? That area is guarded 24/7 and IDF patrol officers are on record saying absolutely nothing can get to the fence without them knowing but all these hamas fighters got in untouched? That country is tiny but how long did it take them to respond? And now you have Israel blocking the UN from investigating the alleged SA that happened that day after the initial UN report said there was no evidence of systemic SA on that day. Then look at the reaction of the Israeli people when prison guards r*ped Palestinian prisoners and how they rioted because they felt the prison guards had every right to do that. Then look at the damage caused at the _estival, hamas were carrying AK47s but you see clearly videos of cars absolutely incinerated because they were fired on by IDF tanks once the Hannibal Collective was ordered, which if you don't know basically means, shoot first and ask questions later which resulted in the IDF shooting and killing an unknown amount of their own people because their army is majority Reserves who are not used to actual combat but are well versed in targeting civilians. All of this can be backed up by witnesses from the _estival. The most advanced intelligence agency in the world, so advanced they were able to plant explosives in pagers that Hamas were using in Lebanon and target embassies in Iran but yet over a year later they still haven't been able to find one hostage in "their own country". | |||
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"Most likely. Zionism at it's worst " Since when was Trump a Zionist ? | |||
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"The Jews have offered peace and solutions to the Palestinian issue on 5 times previously and the Palestinians have refused to discuss this. But yeah it's all the Jews fault. Mrs x And Palestine were willing to accept those deals until Israel would change it saying they would still control the land, sea and air so basically the blockade would continue and the open air prison as described by the UN would continue. Netanyahu is on record asking people to fund hamas, he wanted this attack so he could invade fully. What do you think drove Hamas to October 7th? Do you think they woke up that morning and decided on a whim to attack or do you think it had anything to do with the ethnic cleansing and oppression for the last 70 years? That area is guarded 24/7 and IDF patrol officers are on record saying absolutely nothing can get to the fence without them knowing but all these hamas fighters got in untouched? That country is tiny but how long did it take them to respond? And now you have Israel blocking the UN from investigating the alleged SA that happened that day after the initial UN report said there was no evidence of systemic SA on that day. Then look at the reaction of the Israeli people when prison guards r*ped Palestinian prisoners and how they rioted because they felt the prison guards had every right to do that. Then look at the damage caused at the _estival, hamas were carrying AK47s but you see clearly videos of cars absolutely incinerated because they were fired on by IDF tanks once the Hannibal Collective was ordered, which if you don't know basically means, shoot first and ask questions later which resulted in the IDF shooting and killing an unknown amount of their own people because their army is majority Reserves who are not used to actual combat but are well versed in targeting civilians. All of this can be backed up by witnesses from the _estival. The most advanced intelligence agency in the world, so advanced they were able to plant explosives in pagers that Hamas were using in Lebanon and target embassies in Iran but yet over a year later they still haven't been able to find one hostage in "their own country". " Nice to have some conspiracy theories on the thread. What about the Lizard People, Lord Lucan, Shergar and Elvis. I'm sure if you tried really hard you could shoe horn them into your your 'story', Mrs x | |||
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"The Jews have offered peace and solutions to the Palestinian issue on 5 times previously and the Palestinians have refused to discuss this. But yeah it's all the Jews fault. Mrs x And Palestine were willing to accept those deals until Israel would change it saying they would still control the land, sea and air so basically the blockade would continue and the open air prison as described by the UN would continue. Netanyahu is on record asking people to fund hamas, he wanted this attack so he could invade fully. What do you think drove Hamas to October 7th? Do you think they woke up that morning and decided on a whim to attack or do you think it had anything to do with the ethnic cleansing and oppression for the last 70 years? That area is guarded 24/7 and IDF patrol officers are on record saying absolutely nothing can get to the fence without them knowing but all these hamas fighters got in untouched? That country is tiny but how long did it take them to respond? And now you have Israel blocking the UN from investigating the alleged SA that happened that day after the initial UN report said there was no evidence of systemic SA on that day. Then look at the reaction of the Israeli people when prison guards r*ped Palestinian prisoners and how they rioted because they felt the prison guards had every right to do that. Then look at the damage caused at the _estival, hamas were carrying AK47s but you see clearly videos of cars absolutely incinerated because they were fired on by IDF tanks once the Hannibal Collective was ordered, which if you don't know basically means, shoot first and ask questions later which resulted in the IDF shooting and killing an unknown amount of their own people because their army is majority Reserves who are not used to actual combat but are well versed in targeting civilians. All of this can be backed up by witnesses from the _estival. The most advanced intelligence agency in the world, so advanced they were able to plant explosives in pagers that Hamas were using in Lebanon and target embassies in Iran but yet over a year later they still haven't been able to find one hostage in "their own country". " As for hostages, 117 have been returned as of tge 8th Jan 25, but don't let facts spoil a good conspiracy fairytale, Mrs x | |||
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"The interesting part of this story is Trump's middle east envoy, Steve Witkoff is already conducting negotiations. It would be an absolutely amazing outcome if this conflict is resolved when he gets into office. I can't see what else trump could do to Gaza and the Palestinians that Israel hasn't already done. Gaza and Palestinians are not the puppet masters. Sanctioning Iran right now will bite and they can't afford any unrest from their citizens. There is more than 1 way to skin a cat. Depends on how/if Iran has any control of Hamas. Support yes but control? Regime change hasn't usually worked with unexpected consequences so yet more conflict in in the middle east perhaps? Iran pull the strings of Hamas, they provoked October 7th attacks, funded it and trained Hamas. Iran's aim was to destabilise Israel who were in talks with Saudi ref, normalising relations. This was also being supported by the US. Can you supply sources that Iran "ordered" the 7 October attacks? I also see no logic in the 7 October attacks changing Saudi"s decision to normalise relations so would like to see more on that I’m not going to get drawn into a long if, but and maybe. Iran trained Hamas, arm them and fund them. I didn’t say Iran ordered the attack. Iran was upset on 2 fronts, oil sanctions, withdrawal from the nuclear program. Both of these events led to attacks on shipping and the Royal Marines boarding a ship. The US can bring them back in from the wilderness if they wish, and if they do it will cease the conflict. I think that's a little simplistic to suggest that the war could be ended by Irans inclusion back into the diplomatic community. Whilst Iran does, fund, train and arm Hamas, they only do so because of their common hatered of Israel and the Jews. Other than this they found differing beliefs on many religious grounds, Hamas being Sunni whilst Iran are predominantly Shiite. These differences were highlighted in 2012 when relationship between the Terror group and Iran broke down as Hamas sided with the Sunni rebels and Iran supported the Assad, Shiite, regime. It's for this reason that I don't think what you are suggesting will come to fruition. Currently the relationship is one of convenience against a common enemy, much like that of Rissia and the Allies when they fought the Nazis. When that was over, allies became enemies during the Cold War and I can see that happening here. Their religious dogma will not allow a cordial relationship in the absence of a common foe. I do believe you are right about the other things you said about oth we countries wanting to 'normalise' their relationship with Israel and your reasoning about why Iran is so annoyed with the US is spot on, but the removal of sanctions won't be a precursor to peace, if it wasn't for the Israelis and the Jews they still be trying to kill each other over their dogmatic adherence to religious extremism. Mrs x" I was a little lazy in my reply, I can see how what I wrote looks like I'm suggesting it will bring an end to the war. I should have been clearer, I think it would pause the hostilities. expanding on the why.. Iran are suffering under sanctions imposed on them after the US withdrew from JCPOA, and have literally increased their attentions and actions on every reason the US gave for the withdraw. One of those reasons was the influence and Iran’s support for Hamas, Hezbollah, and the Houthis. After sanctions were originally lifted under JCPOA in 2016 it gave Iran access to $100 Billion in frozen assets, access to international banking and markets, they were selling millions of barrels oil per day etc etc. Younger generations in Iran hoped that change was on its way, when the sanctions came back in, the mood was crushed. Public trust in the government eroded due to economic downturn, crackdowns on dissent by the morality police, and real fears from external attacks like the one by Israel, means Iranian powers face growing internal pressure which they are at risk of losing control of. If Trump offers to ease sanctions, it could give Iran a reason to deescalate its support and use its influence to drive out a ceasefire, at least temporarily. That said, this is just my opinion. I don’t have evidence, I simply think this approach could help unpick the deadlock towards a ceasefire. | |||
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"The interesting part of this story is Trump's middle east envoy, Steve Witkoff is already conducting negotiations. It would be an absolutely amazing outcome if this conflict is resolved when he gets into office. I can't see what else trump could do to Gaza and the Palestinians that Israel hasn't already done. Gaza and Palestinians are not the puppet masters. Sanctioning Iran right now will bite and they can't afford any unrest from their citizens. There is more than 1 way to skin a cat. Depends on how/if Iran has any control of Hamas. Support yes but control? Regime change hasn't usually worked with unexpected consequences so yet more conflict in in the middle east perhaps? Iran pull the strings of Hamas, they provoked October 7th attacks, funded it and trained Hamas. Iran's aim was to destabilise Israel who were in talks with Saudi ref, normalising relations. This was also being supported by the US. Can you supply sources that Iran "ordered" the 7 October attacks? I also see no logic in the 7 October attacks changing Saudi"s decision to normalise relations so would like to see more on that I’m not going to get drawn into a long if, but and maybe. Iran trained Hamas, arm them and fund them. I didn’t say Iran ordered the attack. Iran was upset on 2 fronts, oil sanctions, withdrawal from the nuclear program. Both of these events led to attacks on shipping and the Royal Marines boarding a ship. The US can bring them back in from the wilderness if they wish, and if they do it will cease the conflict. I think that's a little simplistic to suggest that the war could be ended by Irans inclusion back into the diplomatic community. Whilst Iran does, fund, train and arm Hamas, they only do so because of their common hatered of Israel and the Jews. Other than this they found differing beliefs on many religious grounds, Hamas being Sunni whilst Iran are predominantly Shiite. These differences were highlighted in 2012 when relationship between the Terror group and Iran broke down as Hamas sided with the Sunni rebels and Iran supported the Assad, Shiite, regime. It's for this reason that I don't think what you are suggesting will come to fruition. Currently the relationship is one of convenience against a common enemy, much like that of Rissia and the Allies when they fought the Nazis. When that was over, allies became enemies during the Cold War and I can see that happening here. Their religious dogma will not allow a cordial relationship in the absence of a common foe. I do believe you are right about the other things you said about oth we countries wanting to 'normalise' their relationship with Israel and your reasoning about why Iran is so annoyed with the US is spot on, but the removal of sanctions won't be a precursor to peace, if it wasn't for the Israelis and the Jews they still be trying to kill each other over their dogmatic adherence to religious extremism. Mrs x I was a little lazy in my reply, I can see how what I wrote looks like I'm suggesting it will bring an end to the war. I should have been clearer, I think it would pause the hostilities. expanding on the why.. Iran are suffering under sanctions imposed on them after the US withdrew from JCPOA, and have literally increased their attentions and actions on every reason the US gave for the withdraw. One of those reasons was the influence and Iran’s support for Hamas, Hezbollah, and the Houthis. After sanctions were originally lifted under JCPOA in 2016 it gave Iran access to $100 Billion in frozen assets, access to international banking and markets, they were selling millions of barrels oil per day etc etc. Younger generations in Iran hoped that change was on its way, when the sanctions came back in, the mood was crushed. Public trust in the government eroded due to economic downturn, crackdowns on dissent by the morality police, and real fears from external attacks like the one by Israel, means Iranian powers face growing internal pressure which they are at risk of losing control of. If Trump offers to ease sanctions, it could give Iran a reason to deescalate its support and use its influence to drive out a ceasefire, at least temporarily. That said, this is just my opinion. I don’t have evidence, I simply think this approach could help unpick the deadlock towards a ceasefire." Everything you say makes sense and may happen. However I'm just pointing out that whilst Iran and funding Hamas now, it's a marriage of convenience. There ideas and aims do not always align, like in Syria in 2012 when relationship between the two groups ceased due to conflicting differences regarding support for the two sides in the conflict. Hamas supporting the Sunni rebels, whilst Iran supported the Asad regime. So even though Iran would possible rein in any potential support for Hamas, this would probably not be enough for Hamas to end hostilities, they are too committed in the annihilation of Israel and the Jews to stop. Whilst we all know they are Irans proxy, misguided pride and evil religious dogma would force them to continue fighting. But I may be wrong, time will tell, Mrs x | |||
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"The interesting part of this story is Trump's middle east envoy, Steve Witkoff is already conducting negotiations. It would be an absolutely amazing outcome if this conflict is resolved when he gets into office. I can't see what else trump could do to Gaza and the Palestinians that Israel hasn't already done. Gaza and Palestinians are not the puppet masters. Sanctioning Iran right now will bite and they can't afford any unrest from their citizens. There is more than 1 way to skin a cat. Depends on how/if Iran has any control of Hamas. Support yes but control? Regime change hasn't usually worked with unexpected consequences so yet more conflict in in the middle east perhaps? Iran pull the strings of Hamas, they provoked October 7th attacks, funded it and trained Hamas. Iran's aim was to destabilise Israel who were in talks with Saudi ref, normalising relations. This was also being supported by the US. Can you supply sources that Iran "ordered" the 7 October attacks? I also see no logic in the 7 October attacks changing Saudi"s decision to normalise relations so would like to see more on that I’m not going to get drawn into a long if, but and maybe. Iran trained Hamas, arm them and fund them. I didn’t say Iran ordered the attack. Iran was upset on 2 fronts, oil sanctions, withdrawal from the nuclear program. Both of these events led to attacks on shipping and the Royal Marines boarding a ship. The US can bring them back in from the wilderness if they wish, and if they do it will cease the conflict. I think that's a little simplistic to suggest that the war could be ended by Irans inclusion back into the diplomatic community. Whilst Iran does, fund, train and arm Hamas, they only do so because of their common hatered of Israel and the Jews. Other than this they found differing beliefs on many religious grounds, Hamas being Sunni whilst Iran are predominantly Shiite. These differences were highlighted in 2012 when relationship between the Terror group and Iran broke down as Hamas sided with the Sunni rebels and Iran supported the Assad, Shiite, regime. It's for this reason that I don't think what you are suggesting will come to fruition. Currently the relationship is one of convenience against a common enemy, much like that of Rissia and the Allies when they fought the Nazis. When that was over, allies became enemies during the Cold War and I can see that happening here. Their religious dogma will not allow a cordial relationship in the absence of a common foe. I do believe you are right about the other things you said about oth we countries wanting to 'normalise' their relationship with Israel and your reasoning about why Iran is so annoyed with the US is spot on, but the removal of sanctions won't be a precursor to peace, if it wasn't for the Israelis and the Jews they still be trying to kill each other over their dogmatic adherence to religious extremism. Mrs x I was a little lazy in my reply, I can see how what I wrote looks like I'm suggesting it will bring an end to the war. I should have been clearer, I think it would pause the hostilities. expanding on the why.. Iran are suffering under sanctions imposed on them after the US withdrew from JCPOA, and have literally increased their attentions and actions on every reason the US gave for the withdraw. One of those reasons was the influence and Iran’s support for Hamas, Hezbollah, and the Houthis. After sanctions were originally lifted under JCPOA in 2016 it gave Iran access to $100 Billion in frozen assets, access to international banking and markets, they were selling millions of barrels oil per day etc etc. Younger generations in Iran hoped that change was on its way, when the sanctions came back in, the mood was crushed. Public trust in the government eroded due to economic downturn, crackdowns on dissent by the morality police, and real fears from external attacks like the one by Israel, means Iranian powers face growing internal pressure which they are at risk of losing control of. If Trump offers to ease sanctions, it could give Iran a reason to deescalate its support and use its influence to drive out a ceasefire, at least temporarily. That said, this is just my opinion. I don’t have evidence, I simply think this approach could help unpick the deadlock towards a ceasefire.Everything you say makes sense and may happen. However I'm just pointing out that whilst Iran and funding Hamas now, it's a marriage of convenience. There ideas and aims do not always align, like in Syria in 2012 when relationship between the two groups ceased due to conflicting differences regarding support for the two sides in the conflict. Hamas supporting the Sunni rebels, whilst Iran supported the Asad regime. So even though Iran would possible rein in any potential support for Hamas, this would probably not be enough for Hamas to end hostilities, they are too committed in the annihilation of Israel and the Jews to stop. Whilst we all know they are Irans proxy, misguided pride and evil religious dogma would force them to continue fighting. But I may be wrong, time will tell, Mrs x" It wont stop Hamas, it will allow them an out for now, which they badly need. I have no doubt that if this path was taken Iran would be offering Hamas a future carrot, for a return of the hostages and a ceasefire. It is a win win, for now. | |||
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"As for hostages, 117 have been returned as of tge 8th Jan 25, but don't let facts spoil a good conspiracy fairytale, Mrs x" For your earlier comment, so the UN are conspiracy theorists now? Please point out what I said that is a conspiracy and we can discuss it. And to this comment, those hostages were released in exchange for Palestinian prisoners but alot of the Palestinians were re-arrested just days after release, no trial, no charges just because Israel thinks they can do what they want. | |||
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"The interesting part of this story is Trump's middle east envoy, Steve Witkoff is already conducting negotiations. It would be an absolutely amazing outcome if this conflict is resolved when he gets into office. I can't see what else trump could do to Gaza and the Palestinians that Israel hasn't already done. Gaza and Palestinians are not the puppet masters. Sanctioning Iran right now will bite and they can't afford any unrest from their citizens. There is more than 1 way to skin a cat. Depends on how/if Iran has any control of Hamas. Support yes but control? Regime change hasn't usually worked with unexpected consequences so yet more conflict in in the middle east perhaps? Iran pull the strings of Hamas, they provoked October 7th attacks, funded it and trained Hamas. Iran's aim was to destabilise Israel who were in talks with Saudi ref, normalising relations. This was also being supported by the US. Can you supply sources that Iran "ordered" the 7 October attacks? I also see no logic in the 7 October attacks changing Saudi"s decision to normalise relations so would like to see more on that I’m not going to get drawn into a long if, but and maybe. Iran trained Hamas, arm them and fund them. I didn’t say Iran ordered the attack. Iran was upset on 2 fronts, oil sanctions, withdrawal from the nuclear program. Both of these events led to attacks on shipping and the Royal Marines boarding a ship. The US can bring them back in from the wilderness if they wish, and if they do it will cease the conflict. I think that's a little simplistic to suggest that the war could be ended by Irans inclusion back into the diplomatic community. Whilst Iran does, fund, train and arm Hamas, they only do so because of their common hatered of Israel and the Jews. Other than this they found differing beliefs on many religious grounds, Hamas being Sunni whilst Iran are predominantly Shiite. These differences were highlighted in 2012 when relationship between the Terror group and Iran broke down as Hamas sided with the Sunni rebels and Iran supported the Assad, Shiite, regime. It's for this reason that I don't think what you are suggesting will come to fruition. Currently the relationship is one of convenience against a common enemy, much like that of Rissia and the Allies when they fought the Nazis. When that was over, allies became enemies during the Cold War and I can see that happening here. Their religious dogma will not allow a cordial relationship in the absence of a common foe. I do believe you are right about the other things you said about oth we countries wanting to 'normalise' their relationship with Israel and your reasoning about why Iran is so annoyed with the US is spot on, but the removal of sanctions won't be a precursor to peace, if it wasn't for the Israelis and the Jews they still be trying to kill each other over their dogmatic adherence to religious extremism. Mrs x I was a little lazy in my reply, I can see how what I wrote looks like I'm suggesting it will bring an end to the war. I should have been clearer, I think it would pause the hostilities. expanding on the why.. Iran are suffering under sanctions imposed on them after the US withdrew from JCPOA, and have literally increased their attentions and actions on every reason the US gave for the withdraw. One of those reasons was the influence and Iran’s support for Hamas, Hezbollah, and the Houthis. After sanctions were originally lifted under JCPOA in 2016 it gave Iran access to $100 Billion in frozen assets, access to international banking and markets, they were selling millions of barrels oil per day etc etc. Younger generations in Iran hoped that change was on its way, when the sanctions came back in, the mood was crushed. Public trust in the government eroded due to economic downturn, crackdowns on dissent by the morality police, and real fears from external attacks like the one by Israel, means Iranian powers face growing internal pressure which they are at risk of losing control of. If Trump offers to ease sanctions, it could give Iran a reason to deescalate its support and use its influence to drive out a ceasefire, at least temporarily. That said, this is just my opinion. I don’t have evidence, I simply think this approach could help unpick the deadlock towards a ceasefire.Everything you say makes sense and may happen. However I'm just pointing out that whilst Iran and funding Hamas now, it's a marriage of convenience. There ideas and aims do not always align, like in Syria in 2012 when relationship between the two groups ceased due to conflicting differences regarding support for the two sides in the conflict. Hamas supporting the Sunni rebels, whilst Iran supported the Asad regime. So even though Iran would possible rein in any potential support for Hamas, this would probably not be enough for Hamas to end hostilities, they are too committed in the annihilation of Israel and the Jews to stop. Whilst we all know they are Irans proxy, misguided pride and evil religious dogma would force them to continue fighting. But I may be wrong, time will tell, Mrs x It wont stop Hamas, it will allow them an out for now, which they badly need. I have no doubt that if this path was taken Iran would be offering Hamas a future carrot, for a return of the hostages and a ceasefire. It is a win win, for now." Also think it may not be in everyone's interest to have a ceasefire right now. Sometimes diplomacy just doesn't work and unfortunately I think this may be one such case. It's like the Nazis in WW2. They just lied to everyone about their heinous plans and then carried on regardless. First lying about their annexation plans, then lying to form alliances they would ultimately betray. When you are dealing with dogmatic zealots sometimes the only way is to remove the threat entirely. You cannot stop, allow them to regroup because they will just attack and never stop. There God is superior to any other god and according to them he's telling them to do this. For them it's righteous, they must do this this if they are faithful to their religion, even though they are corrupting the religion for their evil aims. So like Nazism I think they only way to truly stop this conflict is to wipe out Islamic fundamentalist terrorism once and for all. This is Israels March on Berlin and I think that that's how they view it right now. This is a chance to eradicate terrorism in the area. It doesn't seem to be very humanitarian but in the long term, if it can be achieved, it will be looked upon favourably, like the annihilation of Nazism. I just want to point out that this is totally separate from killing a particular race or people's, I'm merely talking g about the notion of wiping another evil ideology from the face of the Earth, not a particular race or group of people, because I know if I don't mention that I'll be accused of supporting genocide, which I'm not, what I am supporting is the extention of terrorist ideology, that's all. Mrs x | |||
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"The interesting part of this story is Trump's middle east envoy, Steve Witkoff is already conducting negotiations. It would be an absolutely amazing outcome if this conflict is resolved when he gets into office. I can't see what else trump could do to Gaza and the Palestinians that Israel hasn't already done. Gaza and Palestinians are not the puppet masters. Sanctioning Iran right now will bite and they can't afford any unrest from their citizens. There is more than 1 way to skin a cat. Depends on how/if Iran has any control of Hamas. Support yes but control? Regime change hasn't usually worked with unexpected consequences so yet more conflict in in the middle east perhaps? Iran pull the strings of Hamas, they provoked October 7th attacks, funded it and trained Hamas. Iran's aim was to destabilise Israel who were in talks with Saudi ref, normalising relations. This was also being supported by the US. Can you supply sources that Iran "ordered" the 7 October attacks? I also see no logic in the 7 October attacks changing Saudi"s decision to normalise relations so would like to see more on that I’m not going to get drawn into a long if, but and maybe. Iran trained Hamas, arm them and fund them. I didn’t say Iran ordered the attack. Iran was upset on 2 fronts, oil sanctions, withdrawal from the nuclear program. Both of these events led to attacks on shipping and the Royal Marines boarding a ship. The US can bring them back in from the wilderness if they wish, and if they do it will cease the conflict. I think that's a little simplistic to suggest that the war could be ended by Irans inclusion back into the diplomatic community. Whilst Iran does, fund, train and arm Hamas, they only do so because of their common hatered of Israel and the Jews. Other than this they found differing beliefs on many religious grounds, Hamas being Sunni whilst Iran are predominantly Shiite. These differences were highlighted in 2012 when relationship between the Terror group and Iran broke down as Hamas sided with the Sunni rebels and Iran supported the Assad, Shiite, regime. It's for this reason that I don't think what you are suggesting will come to fruition. Currently the relationship is one of convenience against a common enemy, much like that of Rissia and the Allies when they fought the Nazis. When that was over, allies became enemies during the Cold War and I can see that happening here. Their religious dogma will not allow a cordial relationship in the absence of a common foe. I do believe you are right about the other things you said about oth we countries wanting to 'normalise' their relationship with Israel and your reasoning about why Iran is so annoyed with the US is spot on, but the removal of sanctions won't be a precursor to peace, if it wasn't for the Israelis and the Jews they still be trying to kill each other over their dogmatic adherence to religious extremism. Mrs x I was a little lazy in my reply, I can see how what I wrote looks like I'm suggesting it will bring an end to the war. I should have been clearer, I think it would pause the hostilities. expanding on the why.. Iran are suffering under sanctions imposed on them after the US withdrew from JCPOA, and have literally increased their attentions and actions on every reason the US gave for the withdraw. One of those reasons was the influence and Iran’s support for Hamas, Hezbollah, and the Houthis. After sanctions were originally lifted under JCPOA in 2016 it gave Iran access to $100 Billion in frozen assets, access to international banking and markets, they were selling millions of barrels oil per day etc etc. Younger generations in Iran hoped that change was on its way, when the sanctions came back in, the mood was crushed. Public trust in the government eroded due to economic downturn, crackdowns on dissent by the morality police, and real fears from external attacks like the one by Israel, means Iranian powers face growing internal pressure which they are at risk of losing control of. If Trump offers to ease sanctions, it could give Iran a reason to deescalate its support and use its influence to drive out a ceasefire, at least temporarily. That said, this is just my opinion. I don’t have evidence, I simply think this approach could help unpick the deadlock towards a ceasefire.Everything you say makes sense and may happen. However I'm just pointing out that whilst Iran and funding Hamas now, it's a marriage of convenience. There ideas and aims do not always align, like in Syria in 2012 when relationship between the two groups ceased due to conflicting differences regarding support for the two sides in the conflict. Hamas supporting the Sunni rebels, whilst Iran supported the Asad regime. So even though Iran would possible rein in any potential support for Hamas, this would probably not be enough for Hamas to end hostilities, they are too committed in the annihilation of Israel and the Jews to stop. Whilst we all know they are Irans proxy, misguided pride and evil religious dogma would force them to continue fighting. But I may be wrong, time will tell, Mrs x It wont stop Hamas, it will allow them an out for now, which they badly need. I have no doubt that if this path was taken Iran would be offering Hamas a future carrot, for a return of the hostages and a ceasefire. It is a win win, for now.Also think it may not be in everyone's interest to have a ceasefire right now. Sometimes diplomacy just doesn't work and unfortunately I think this may be one such case. It's like the Nazis in WW2. They just lied to everyone about their heinous plans and then carried on regardless. First lying about their annexation plans, then lying to form alliances they would ultimately betray. When you are dealing with dogmatic zealots sometimes the only way is to remove the threat entirely. You cannot stop, allow them to regroup because they will just attack and never stop. There God is superior to any other god and according to them he's telling them to do this. For them it's righteous, they must do this this if they are faithful to their religion, even though they are corrupting the religion for their evil aims. So like Nazism I think they only way to truly stop this conflict is to wipe out Islamic fundamentalist terrorism once and for all. This is Israels March on Berlin and I think that that's how they view it right now. This is a chance to eradicate terrorism in the area. It doesn't seem to be very humanitarian but in the long term, if it can be achieved, it will be looked upon favourably, like the annihilation of Nazism. I just want to point out that this is totally separate from killing a particular race or people's, I'm merely talking g about the notion of wiping another evil ideology from the face of the Earth, not a particular race or group of people, because I know if I don't mention that I'll be accused of supporting genocide, which I'm not, what I am supporting is the extention of terrorist ideology, that's all. Mrs x " Extermination not extension of, ffs, fat fingers and predictive text is a nightmare combination, Mrs x | |||
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"Do you propose even more war and more conflict instead of being able to talk and reach compromise. It worked for Ireland. Not perfect but a hell of a lot better over there now - don't you agree?You obviously know nothing or little about Khartoum, or the Canp David Accords. The Jews have offered peace and solutions to the Palestinian issue on 5 times previously and the Palestinians have refused to discuss this. But yeah it's all the Jews fault. Mrs x" It's a shame your having to invent arguments I've never put forward which is below the belt even for you. I've never blamed Jews, it's the Zionist movement and the Likud party (formed by a convicted terrorist btw) that's the problem. What is so wrong to stop the conflict in the middle east through negotiation instead of wars ? Why do you have to invent statements I've never made to point score? Why is it you advocate war to support netenyahus Zionist ideology which isn't in American or UK interests? Let alone the middle east. You seem to prefer war and countless more dead rather than negotiated settlements. I'm not sorry that Ireland is peaceful now. I hope your not too disappointed. | |||
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" Sometimes diplomacy just doesn't work and unfortunately I think this may be one such case. It's like the Nazis in WW2. They just lied to everyone about their heinous plans and then carried on regardless. First lying about their annexation plans, then lying to form alliances they would ultimately betray. When you are dealing with dogmatic zealots sometimes the only way is to remove the threat entirely. You cannot stop, allow them to regroup because they will just attack and never stop. There God is superior to any other god and according to them he's telling them to do this. For them it's righteous, they must do this this if they are faithful to their religion, even though they are corrupting the religion for their evil aims. So like Nazism I think they only way to truly stop this conflict is to wipe out Islamic fundamentalist terrorism once and for all. This is Israels March on Berlin and I think that that's how they view it right now. This is a chance to eradicate terrorism in the area. It doesn't seem to be very humanitarian but in the long term, if it can be achieved, it will be looked upon favourably, like the annihilation of Nazism. I just want to point out that this is totally separate from killing a particular race or people's, I'm merely talking g about the notion of wiping another evil ideology from the face of the Earth, not a particular race or group of people, because I know if I don't mention that I'll be accused of supporting genocide, which I'm not, what I am supporting is the extention of terrorist ideology, that's all. Mrs x " You do realise you've described Israel more than Hamas there lol? October 7th happened, it was a terrible attack and no innocent people should ever be killed but what about the over 400 days since? What about when Israel drove people from Northern Gaza to safe zones and when they arrived at those safe zones, they bombed them. They've bombed hospitals, killed medical patients and workers and UN workers. Just the other night they bombed the refugee centre in Khan Younis, are all of those women and children terrorists? Are the doctors, the nurses, worldwide media members and UN workers hamas too? Israel are the one looking to invade other countries, they've bombed Iran, Yemen and Lebanon. Had troops on the ground in Lebanon until they were ran out of it. What other countries have Hamas attacked seeing as you're comparing them to the Nazis? Gaza was described as the world's largest open air prison, similar to a concentration camp, who controls entry and exit to Gaza? So again, Israel are more like Nazi Germany in that sense too. You're openly calling for Genocide and belittle it to "it might not be very humanitarian" that is absolutely vile. You're either brain washed or brain dead but either way, you're too far gone and there is no speaking to someone so clearly uneducated on a matter like this. | |||
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"Do you propose even more war and more conflict instead of being able to talk and reach compromise. It worked for Ireland. Not perfect but a hell of a lot better over there now - don't you agree?You obviously know nothing or little about Khartoum, or the Canp David Accords. The Jews have offered peace and solutions to the Palestinian issue on 5 times previously and the Palestinians have refused to discuss this. But yeah it's all the Jews fault. Mrs x It's a shame your having to invent arguments I've never put forward which is below the belt even for you. I've never blamed Jews, it's the Zionist movement and the Likud party (formed by a convicted terrorist btw) that's the problem. What is so wrong to stop the conflict in the middle east through negotiation instead of wars ? Why do you have to invent statements I've never made to point score? Why is it you advocate war to support netenyahus Zionist ideology which isn't in American or UK interests? Let alone the middle east. You seem to prefer war and countless more dead rather than negotiated settlements. I'm not sorry that Ireland is peaceful now. I hope your not too disappointed. " I don't want War, I just don't want terrorism. You cannot negotiate with religious zealots. These people don't just want to terminate all Jews, they want to terminate ALL non believers. So once finished with the Jews do you think they will stop because if you do can you explain why more innocent Muslims have been killed by Islami terrorism than any other group? Zionism was created as a call for Jews to return home. That's all, nothing more. It has however been corrupted by the few as a call to arms to support their violent methods to achieve there aims. But this is very different from what Zionism meant upon creation. By you repeating the mantra that Zionism is evil is like me saying all Muslims are terrorist, because they believe in the same religion as Hamas, when it's clearly not the case. Most Muslims are peaceful, certainly not terrorists just as most Zionists just want to live in their ancestral home and are not violent. I only want the removal of an evil ideology, I don't want War but if the religious zealots start a war, with actions such as the 7th Oct, it seems fairly clear that they don't want to negotiate and an armed struggle may be the only way to achieve this. Just like the Allies stamped out Nazism. So let me point out once and for all, I do not want War, I do not want any innocent lives to be lost, I just want the eradication of an evil, dogmatic, ideology to be removed from the Earth. If this could be achieved by doing something very simple like with the press of a button, the flicking of a switch or some nice words shared with each other then that's my preferred option, if it takes an armed struggle, like in WW2 so be it. But to reiterate I just want the death of this terrorist ideology, not the death of any people and it's the responsibility of those spouting these evil doctrines to either stop, or be stopped, it's their choice. So I'll ask you a similar question, why do you want to see the continuation of extreme religious, murderous, dogma rather than see it stop? Mrs x | |||
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" So I'll ask you a similar question, why do you want to see the continuation of extreme religious, murderous, dogma rather than see it stop? Mrs x" Have you ever read the Talmud, the book zionists go off of? The book that says any non believers (gentiles) are to be killed by believers, which isn't a crime and that a believer can have sex with a gentile minor and it's not a crime as gentiles are viewed as non human beasts. Where is your outcry for that? Does that not fall into your "dogmatic zealot" category? What about Israel being a safe haven for people convicted of being with minors, you have no problem with that or you're uneducated on it and think it only happens in the Muslim community? The Catholic Church has a notorious history of SA with minors but I haven't heard you mentoin that once, why is that? | |||
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" Sometimes diplomacy just doesn't work and unfortunately I think this may be one such case. It's like the Nazis in WW2. They just lied to everyone about their heinous plans and then carried on regardless. First lying about their annexation plans, then lying to form alliances they would ultimately betray. When you are dealing with dogmatic zealots sometimes the only way is to remove the threat entirely. You cannot stop, allow them to regroup because they will just attack and never stop. There God is superior to any other god and according to them he's telling them to do this. For them it's righteous, they must do this this if they are faithful to their religion, even though they are corrupting the religion for their evil aims. So like Nazism I think they only way to truly stop this conflict is to wipe out Islamic fundamentalist terrorism once and for all. This is Israels March on Berlin and I think that that's how they view it right now. This is a chance to eradicate terrorism in the area. It doesn't seem to be very humanitarian but in the long term, if it can be achieved, it will be looked upon favourably, like the annihilation of Nazism. I just want to point out that this is totally separate from killing a particular race or people's, I'm merely talking g about the notion of wiping another evil ideology from the face of the Earth, not a particular race or group of people, because I know if I don't mention that I'll be accused of supporting genocide, which I'm not, what I am supporting is the extention of terrorist ideology, that's all. Mrs x You do realise you've described Israel more than Hamas there lol? October 7th happened, it was a terrible attack and no innocent people should ever be killed but what about the over 400 days since? What about when Israel drove people from Northern Gaza to safe zones and when they arrived at those safe zones, they bombed them. They've bombed hospitals, killed medical patients and workers and UN workers. Just the other night they bombed the refugee centre in Khan Younis, are all of those women and children terrorists? Are the doctors, the nurses, worldwide media members and UN workers hamas too? Israel are the one looking to invade other countries, they've bombed Iran, Yemen and Lebanon. Had troops on the ground in Lebanon until they were ran out of it. What other countries have Hamas attacked seeing as you're comparing them to the Nazis? Gaza was described as the world's largest open air prison, similar to a concentration camp, who controls entry and exit to Gaza? So again, Israel are more like Nazi Germany in that sense too. You're openly calling for Genocide and belittle it to "it might not be very humanitarian" that is absolutely vile. You're either brain washed or brain dead but either way, you're too far gone and there is no speaking to someone so clearly uneducated on a matter like this. " The 400 days since? You do realise that a War is going on don't you. As a very bad consequence of war civilians are killed, unless you know of any urban war were the civilians weren't, Do you know of such a conflict? Civilians in Gaza are used by Hamas as propaganda, they want them killed to reinforce their anti Israeli narrative. They could have tried to protect them, like themselves but didn't. Even recently a senior Hamas terrorist claimed it was terrible that whilst Hamas took three years to plan the Oct 7th plan, they didn't spend a minute on how they would protect their population from the obvious reprisal from Israel. Their only plan was to hide was to get their terrorists to hide behind woman and children because when attacked then hopefully the woman and children would die, giving them something to hit back at Israel through false news and the Internet, to whip up support for their cause. So no, all the civilians killed are not Hamas, but if they know Hamas is hiding their terrorists amongst their population then maybe they should use common sense and get out of Dodge, rather than staying put and observing evil religious dogma. Also the figures that are put out have been refuted in a recent report. Hamas have done things such as included the death of 5000 cancer victims, who died of their illness as victims of the war. They changed the gender of victims from male to female to make out more woman have been killed than actually have. They have also reduced the ages of some of the younger victims so it looks as if more children have been killed and that these were not actually there cohort of younger terrorists. As for your genocide claim, you do realise that less than 2% of the population in Haza has been killed? So either Israel are shit at performing genocide or its not really genocide. If you do believe Israel have genocidal intent how do you square that with the rate of casualties dropping off? It's been around the 45,000 mark for a while now. It was at 35,000 a few months after the war started. So have Istael suddenly decided they don't want to kill all Palestinians? Also there's the issue of the 2 million, peaceful Palestinian citizens living in Israel, what about them, shouldn't they be getting killed if Israel wants to commit Palestinian genocide? What do you think? As for Gaza being a concentration camp, israel built tge fences on their borders to prevent illegal, lethal suicide bombers just walking into their country. Are you really saying that countries cannot defend their borders how they see fit? If you don't think they should you should tell Starmer and Trump that, it would save them billions but might put thousands of Mexican bricklayers out of work. And what about Egypt, are they awful for building the exact same type of fence on their border with Gaza? Have they created a concentration camp too? Finally about your claim that Hamas haven't invaded any other country and your list of countries Israel has. Yemen, Lebanon and Iran. Well both Yemen and Lebanon fired missiles into Israel, despite not being in conflict with Israel at the time but just to show support for their Muslim brothers. That's like the UK coming under missile attacks from Spain and France due to them showing support for their Catholic brothers during the Troubles. I think most UK citizens would think retaliation against both these countries would be justified, Falklands War is an example of this, we were very proud of going to War half way round the world then, the feeling of being patriotic was palpable then as I recall. So why is it not justified for Israel to retaliate against attacks and defend its population, not because of their adherence to a particular religion because that about the only factor that's different in the scenario I have described. As for Iran, the did not attack Iran per se, they just targeted buildings in Iran which was harbouring legitimate military targets. Hiding away seems to be a theme for these evil terrorists. So hope that clears it up for you, but I doubt it. Mrs x | |||
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" So I'll ask you a similar question, why do you want to see the continuation of extreme religious, murderous, dogma rather than see it stop? Mrs x Have you ever read the Talmud, the book zionists go off of? The book that says any non believers (gentiles) are to be killed by believers, which isn't a crime and that a believer can have sex with a gentile minor and it's not a crime as gentiles are viewed as non human beasts. Where is your outcry for that? Does that not fall into your "dogmatic zealot" category? What about Israel being a safe haven for people convicted of being with minors, you have no problem with that or you're uneducated on it and think it only happens in the Muslim community? The Catholic Church has a notorious history of SA with minors but I haven't heard you mentoin that once, why is that?" A book that's a little like the Hadid that tells trees and rocks to shout out should a non believer be hiding behind them , so that they can be killed by the righteous. Familiar? I believe all extremist religious ideology should be removed. All of it, from all religions. I've acknowledged that certain Jews have corrupted the Zionist movement for their own violent aims, just like Islmamic terrorist corrupt their religion to just their aims. Not all Muslims are terrorist, just as not all Zionists are violent. The difference from you is I've yet to see you condemn the non Jewish side. As for the "minor' argument do you really want to go there, with the other sides main man, marrying a 6 year old and consummating it when she was 9 years old. The leader of their faith did that, the top man. So not ALL Jews or Muslims are having sex with children, do you want to agree with that and draw a line under it, not a very palatable argument to be having I think but cannot let a one sided argument go unchallenged. Look at both sides. It's not the people that are bad it's the ideology, get rid of that. Mrs x | |||
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"Do you propose even more war and more conflict instead of being able to talk and reach compromise. It worked for Ireland. Not perfect but a hell of a lot better over there now - don't you agree?You obviously know nothing or little about Khartoum, or the Canp David Accords. The Jews have offered peace and solutions to the Palestinian issue on 5 times previously and the Palestinians have refused to discuss this. But yeah it's all the Jews fault. Mrs x It's a shame your having to invent arguments I've never put forward which is below the belt even for you. I've never blamed Jews, it's the Zionist movement and the Likud party (formed by a convicted terrorist btw) that's the problem. What is so wrong to stop the conflict in the middle east through negotiation instead of wars ? Why do you have to invent statements I've never made to point score? Why is it you advocate war to support netenyahus Zionist ideology which isn't in American or UK interests? Let alone the middle east. You seem to prefer war and countless more dead rather than negotiated settlements. I'm not sorry that Ireland is peaceful now. I hope your not too disappointed. I don't want War, I just don't want terrorism. You cannot negotiate with religious zealots. These people don't just want to terminate all Jews, they want to terminate ALL non believers. So once finished with the Jews do you think they will stop because if you do can you explain why more innocent Muslims have been killed by Islami terrorism than any other group? Zionism was created as a call for Jews to return home. That's all, nothing more. It has however been corrupted by the few as a call to arms to support their violent methods to achieve there aims. But this is very different from what Zionism meant upon creation. By you repeating the mantra that Zionism is evil is like me saying all Muslims are terrorist, because they believe in the same religion as Hamas, when it's clearly not the case. Most Muslims are peaceful, certainly not terrorists just as most Zionists just want to live in their ancestral home and are not violent. I only want the removal of an evil ideology, I don't want War but if the religious zealots start a war, with actions such as the 7th Oct, it seems fairly clear that they don't want to negotiate and an armed struggle may be the only way to achieve this. Just like the Allies stamped out Nazism. So let me point out once and for all, I do not want War, I do not want any innocent lives to be lost, I just want the eradication of an evil, dogmatic, ideology to be removed from the Earth. If this could be achieved by doing something very simple like with the press of a button, the flicking of a switch or some nice words shared with each other then that's my preferred option, if it takes an armed struggle, like in WW2 so be it. But to reiterate I just want the death of this terrorist ideology, not the death of any people and it's the responsibility of those spouting these evil doctrines to either stop, or be stopped, it's their choice. So I'll ask you a similar question, why do you want to see the continuation of extreme religious, murderous, dogma rather than see it stop? Mrs x" Ah okay - so what your saying is Zionism isn't based on religious zealots and the Likud party which was formed by a terrorist banned from entering the UK is moderate. The same party deliberately starving people to death facing arrest warrants and committing other illegal acts against UN resolutions. You openly admitting supporting the extermination of a group of people And you claim the others are the extremists. | |||
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"The interesting part of this story is Trump's middle east envoy, Steve Witkoff is already conducting negotiations. It would be an absolutely amazing outcome if this conflict is resolved when he gets into office. I can't see what else trump could do to Gaza and the Palestinians that Israel hasn't already done. Gaza and Palestinians are not the puppet masters. Sanctioning Iran right now will bite and they can't afford any unrest from their citizens. There is more than 1 way to skin a cat. Depends on how/if Iran has any control of Hamas. Support yes but control? Regime change hasn't usually worked with unexpected consequences so yet more conflict in in the middle east perhaps? Iran pull the strings of Hamas, they provoked October 7th attacks, funded it and trained Hamas. Iran's aim was to destabilise Israel who were in talks with Saudi ref, normalising relations. This was also being supported by the US. Can you supply sources that Iran "ordered" the 7 October attacks? I also see no logic in the 7 October attacks changing Saudi"s decision to normalise relations so would like to see more on that I’m not going to get drawn into a long if, but and maybe. Iran trained Hamas, arm them and fund them. I didn’t say Iran ordered the attack. Iran was upset on 2 fronts, oil sanctions, withdrawal from the nuclear program. Both of these events led to attacks on shipping and the Royal Marines boarding a ship. The US can bring them back in from the wilderness if they wish, and if they do it will cease the conflict. I think that's a little simplistic to suggest that the war could be ended by Irans inclusion back into the diplomatic community. Whilst Iran does, fund, train and arm Hamas, they only do so because of their common hatered of Israel and the Jews. Other than this they found differing beliefs on many religious grounds, Hamas being Sunni whilst Iran are predominantly Shiite. These differences were highlighted in 2012 when relationship between the Terror group and Iran broke down as Hamas sided with the Sunni rebels and Iran supported the Assad, Shiite, regime. It's for this reason that I don't think what you are suggesting will come to fruition. Currently the relationship is one of convenience against a common enemy, much like that of Rissia and the Allies when they fought the Nazis. When that was over, allies became enemies during the Cold War and I can see that happening here. Their religious dogma will not allow a cordial relationship in the absence of a common foe. I do believe you are right about the other things you said about oth we countries wanting to 'normalise' their relationship with Israel and your reasoning about why Iran is so annoyed with the US is spot on, but the removal of sanctions won't be a precursor to peace, if it wasn't for the Israelis and the Jews they still be trying to kill each other over their dogmatic adherence to religious extremism. Mrs x I was a little lazy in my reply, I can see how what I wrote looks like I'm suggesting it will bring an end to the war. I should have been clearer, I think it would pause the hostilities. expanding on the why.. Iran are suffering under sanctions imposed on them after the US withdrew from JCPOA, and have literally increased their attentions and actions on every reason the US gave for the withdraw. One of those reasons was the influence and Iran’s support for Hamas, Hezbollah, and the Houthis. After sanctions were originally lifted under JCPOA in 2016 it gave Iran access to $100 Billion in frozen assets, access to international banking and markets, they were selling millions of barrels oil per day etc etc. Younger generations in Iran hoped that change was on its way, when the sanctions came back in, the mood was crushed. Public trust in the government eroded due to economic downturn, crackdowns on dissent by the morality police, and real fears from external attacks like the one by Israel, means Iranian powers face growing internal pressure which they are at risk of losing control of. If Trump offers to ease sanctions, it could give Iran a reason to deescalate its support and use its influence to drive out a ceasefire, at least temporarily. That said, this is just my opinion. I don’t have evidence, I simply think this approach could help unpick the deadlock towards a ceasefire.Everything you say makes sense and may happen. However I'm just pointing out that whilst Iran and funding Hamas now, it's a marriage of convenience. There ideas and aims do not always align, like in Syria in 2012 when relationship between the two groups ceased due to conflicting differences regarding support for the two sides in the conflict. Hamas supporting the Sunni rebels, whilst Iran supported the Asad regime. So even though Iran would possible rein in any potential support for Hamas, this would probably not be enough for Hamas to end hostilities, they are too committed in the annihilation of Israel and the Jews to stop. Whilst we all know they are Irans proxy, misguided pride and evil religious dogma would force them to continue fighting. But I may be wrong, time will tell, Mrs x It wont stop Hamas, it will allow them an out for now, which they badly need. I have no doubt that if this path was taken Iran would be offering Hamas a future carrot, for a return of the hostages and a ceasefire. It is a win win, for now.Also think it may not be in everyone's interest to have a ceasefire right now. Sometimes diplomacy just doesn't work and unfortunately I think this may be one such case. It's like the Nazis in WW2. They just lied to everyone about their heinous plans and then carried on regardless. First lying about their annexation plans, then lying to form alliances they would ultimately betray. When you are dealing with dogmatic zealots sometimes the only way is to remove the threat entirely. You cannot stop, allow them to regroup because they will just attack and never stop. There God is superior to any other god and according to them he's telling them to do this. For them it's righteous, they must do this this if they are faithful to their religion, even though they are corrupting the religion for their evil aims. So like Nazism I think they only way to truly stop this conflict is to wipe out Islamic fundamentalist terrorism once and for all. This is Israels March on Berlin and I think that that's how they view it right now. This is a chance to eradicate terrorism in the area. It doesn't seem to be very humanitarian but in the long term, if it can be achieved, it will be looked upon favourably, like the annihilation of Nazism. I just want to point out that this is totally separate from killing a particular race or people's, I'm merely talking g about the notion of wiping another evil ideology from the face of the Earth, not a particular race or group of people, because I know if I don't mention that I'll be accused of supporting genocide, which I'm not, what I am supporting is the extention of terrorist ideology, that's all. Mrs x " Only 15% believe that statement. | |||
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"Do you propose even more war and more conflict instead of being able to talk and reach compromise. It worked for Ireland. Not perfect but a hell of a lot better over there now - don't you agree?You obviously know nothing or little about Khartoum, or the Canp David Accords. The Jews have offered peace and solutions to the Palestinian issue on 5 times previously and the Palestinians have refused to discuss this. But yeah it's all the Jews fault. Mrs x It's a shame your having to invent arguments I've never put forward which is below the belt even for you. I've never blamed Jews, it's the Zionist movement and the Likud party (formed by a convicted terrorist btw) that's the problem. What is so wrong to stop the conflict in the middle east through negotiation instead of wars ? Why do you have to invent statements I've never made to point score? Why is it you advocate war to support netenyahus Zionist ideology which isn't in American or UK interests? Let alone the middle east. You seem to prefer war and countless more dead rather than negotiated settlements. I'm not sorry that Ireland is peaceful now. I hope your not too disappointed. I don't want War, I just don't want terrorism. You cannot negotiate with religious zealots. These people don't just want to terminate all Jews, they want to terminate ALL non believers. So once finished with the Jews do you think they will stop because if you do can you explain why more innocent Muslims have been killed by Islami terrorism than any other group? Zionism was created as a call for Jews to return home. That's all, nothing more. It has however been corrupted by the few as a call to arms to support their violent methods to achieve there aims. But this is very different from what Zionism meant upon creation. By you repeating the mantra that Zionism is evil is like me saying all Muslims are terrorist, because they believe in the same religion as Hamas, when it's clearly not the case. Most Muslims are peaceful, certainly not terrorists just as most Zionists just want to live in their ancestral home and are not violent. I only want the removal of an evil ideology, I don't want War but if the religious zealots start a war, with actions such as the 7th Oct, it seems fairly clear that they don't want to negotiate and an armed struggle may be the only way to achieve this. Just like the Allies stamped out Nazism. So let me point out once and for all, I do not want War, I do not want any innocent lives to be lost, I just want the eradication of an evil, dogmatic, ideology to be removed from the Earth. If this could be achieved by doing something very simple like with the press of a button, the flicking of a switch or some nice words shared with each other then that's my preferred option, if it takes an armed struggle, like in WW2 so be it. But to reiterate I just want the death of this terrorist ideology, not the death of any people and it's the responsibility of those spouting these evil doctrines to either stop, or be stopped, it's their choice. So I'll ask you a similar question, why do you want to see the continuation of extreme religious, murderous, dogma rather than see it stop? Mrs x Ah okay - so what your saying is Zionism isn't based on religious zealots and the Likud party which was formed by a terrorist banned from entering the UK is moderate. The same party deliberately starving people to death facing arrest warrants and committing other illegal acts against UN resolutions. You openly admitting supporting the extermination of a group of people And you claim the others are the extremists. " I'm not sure what you've read but I've not said anything like that as for the Likud party, I've not mentioned them on here at all. I said Zionism, originally was just a movement regarding returning home, it has since been corrupted by a few and used, wrongly, to further their violent ends. I've not mentioned on here about anyone starving to death anyone else or arrest warrants or UN Resolutions. Not sure if you are mixing me up with someone else or you just post rubbish, which is totally untrue hoping that others won't be bothered to actual read my posts to see your fabrications. Not one mention of any wrong doing by Hamas or Islamic terrorists but not surprised, you never do eh Dan, Mrs x | |||
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"Do you propose even more war and more conflict instead of being able to talk and reach compromise. It worked for Ireland. Not perfect but a hell of a lot better over there now - don't you agree?You obviously know nothing or little about Khartoum, or the Canp David Accords. The Jews have offered peace and solutions to the Palestinian issue on 5 times previously and the Palestinians have refused to discuss this. But yeah it's all the Jews fault. Mrs x It's a shame your having to invent arguments I've never put forward which is below the belt even for you. I've never blamed Jews, it's the Zionist movement and the Likud party (formed by a convicted terrorist btw) that's the problem. What is so wrong to stop the conflict in the middle east through negotiation instead of wars ? Why do you have to invent statements I've never made to point score? Why is it you advocate war to support netenyahus Zionist ideology which isn't in American or UK interests? Let alone the middle east. You seem to prefer war and countless more dead rather than negotiated settlements. I'm not sorry that Ireland is peaceful now. I hope your not too disappointed. I don't want War, I just don't want terrorism. You cannot negotiate with religious zealots. These people don't just want to terminate all Jews, they want to terminate ALL non believers. So once finished with the Jews do you think they will stop because if you do can you explain why more innocent Muslims have been killed by Islami terrorism than any other group? Zionism was created as a call for Jews to return home. That's all, nothing more. It has however been corrupted by the few as a call to arms to support their violent methods to achieve there aims. But this is very different from what Zionism meant upon creation. By you repeating the mantra that Zionism is evil is like me saying all Muslims are terrorist, because they believe in the same religion as Hamas, when it's clearly not the case. Most Muslims are peaceful, certainly not terrorists just as most Zionists just want to live in their ancestral home and are not violent. I only want the removal of an evil ideology, I don't want War but if the religious zealots start a war, with actions such as the 7th Oct, it seems fairly clear that they don't want to negotiate and an armed struggle may be the only way to achieve this. Just like the Allies stamped out Nazism. So let me point out once and for all, I do not want War, I do not want any innocent lives to be lost, I just want the eradication of an evil, dogmatic, ideology to be removed from the Earth. If this could be achieved by doing something very simple like with the press of a button, the flicking of a switch or some nice words shared with each other then that's my preferred option, if it takes an armed struggle, like in WW2 so be it. But to reiterate I just want the death of this terrorist ideology, not the death of any people and it's the responsibility of those spouting these evil doctrines to either stop, or be stopped, it's their choice. So I'll ask you a similar question, why do you want to see the continuation of extreme religious, murderous, dogma rather than see it stop? Mrs x Ah okay - so what your saying is Zionism isn't based on religious zealots and the Likud party which was formed by a terrorist banned from entering the UK is moderate. The same party deliberately starving people to death facing arrest warrants and committing other illegal acts against UN resolutions. You openly admitting supporting the extermination of a group of people And you claim the others are the extremists. I'm not sure what you've read but I've not said anything like that as for the Likud party, I've not mentioned them on here at all. I said Zionism, originally was just a movement regarding returning home, it has since been corrupted by a few and used, wrongly, to further their violent ends. I've not mentioned on here about anyone starving to death anyone else or arrest warrants or UN Resolutions. Not sure if you are mixing me up with someone else or you just post rubbish, which is totally untrue hoping that others won't be bothered to actual read my posts to see your fabrications. Not one mention of any wrong doing by Hamas or Islamic terrorists but not surprised, you never do eh Dan, Mrs x" Sorry missed the bit were you said I support the extermination of group of people but I haven't. I've made it quite clear I want an ideology to be exterminated not a group of people. If you are going to try and quote things I post, do yourself a favour actually read what I post and comment on that rather than making things up, just makes ot easier for other readers. And yes Hamas are the extremists, Oct 7th demonstrates that, as does throwing gays of roofs to their death for being gay, beheadong non believers, burning babies alive in ovens that kind of thing, none of which I think Jews have done. But don't stop making stuff up, ot might just mean you have nothing to say eh Dan, Mrs x | |||
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"Do you propose even more war and more conflict instead of being able to talk and reach compromise. It worked for Ireland. Not perfect but a hell of a lot better over there now - don't you agree?You obviously know nothing or little about Khartoum, or the Canp David Accords. The Jews have offered peace and solutions to the Palestinian issue on 5 times previously and the Palestinians have refused to discuss this. But yeah it's all the Jews fault. Mrs x It's a shame your having to invent arguments I've never put forward which is below the belt even for you. I've never blamed Jews, it's the Zionist movement and the Likud party (formed by a convicted terrorist btw) that's the problem. What is so wrong to stop the conflict in the middle east through negotiation instead of wars ? Why do you have to invent statements I've never made to point score? Why is it you advocate war to support netenyahus Zionist ideology which isn't in American or UK interests? Let alone the middle east. You seem to prefer war and countless more dead rather than negotiated settlements. I'm not sorry that Ireland is peaceful now. I hope your not too disappointed. I don't want War, I just don't want terrorism. You cannot negotiate with religious zealots. These people don't just want to terminate all Jews, they want to terminate ALL non believers. So once finished with the Jews do you think they will stop because if you do can you explain why more innocent Muslims have been killed by Islami terrorism than any other group? Zionism was created as a call for Jews to return home. That's all, nothing more. It has however been corrupted by the few as a call to arms to support their violent methods to achieve there aims. But this is very different from what Zionism meant upon creation. By you repeating the mantra that Zionism is evil is like me saying all Muslims are terrorist, because they believe in the same religion as Hamas, when it's clearly not the case. Most Muslims are peaceful, certainly not terrorists just as most Zionists just want to live in their ancestral home and are not violent. I only want the removal of an evil ideology, I don't want War but if the religious zealots start a war, with actions such as the 7th Oct, it seems fairly clear that they don't want to negotiate and an armed struggle may be the only way to achieve this. Just like the Allies stamped out Nazism. So let me point out once and for all, I do not want War, I do not want any innocent lives to be lost, I just want the eradication of an evil, dogmatic, ideology to be removed from the Earth. If this could be achieved by doing something very simple like with the press of a button, the flicking of a switch or some nice words shared with each other then that's my preferred option, if it takes an armed struggle, like in WW2 so be it. But to reiterate I just want the death of this terrorist ideology, not the death of any people and it's the responsibility of those spouting these evil doctrines to either stop, or be stopped, it's their choice. So I'll ask you a similar question, why do you want to see the continuation of extreme religious, murderous, dogma rather than see it stop? Mrs x Ah okay - so what your saying is Zionism isn't based on religious zealots and the Likud party which was formed by a terrorist banned from entering the UK is moderate. The same party deliberately starving people to death facing arrest warrants and committing other illegal acts against UN resolutions. You openly admitting supporting the extermination of a group of people And you claim the others are the extremists. I'm not sure what you've read but I've not said anything like that as for the Likud party, I've not mentioned them on here at all. I said Zionism, originally was just a movement regarding returning home, it has since been corrupted by a few and used, wrongly, to further their violent ends. I've not mentioned on here about anyone starving to death anyone else or arrest warrants or UN Resolutions. Not sure if you are mixing me up with someone else or you just post rubbish, which is totally untrue hoping that others won't be bothered to actual read my posts to see your fabrications. Not one mention of any wrong doing by Hamas or Islamic terrorists but not surprised, you never do eh Dan, Mrs xSorry missed the bit were you said I support the extermination of group of people but I haven't. I've made it quite clear I want an ideology to be exterminated not a group of people. If you are going to try and quote things I post, do yourself a favour actually read what I post and comment on that rather than making things up, just makes ot easier for other readers. And yes Hamas are the extremists, Oct 7th demonstrates that, as does throwing gays of roofs to their death for being gay, beheadong non believers, burning babies alive in ovens that kind of thing, none of which I think Jews have done. But don't stop making stuff up, ot might just mean you have nothing to say eh Dan, Mrs x" Wow, and you accuse me of making things up. And yes the Zionists are busy starving and freezing babies to death in Gaza as documented by various humanitarian organisations , and protested about by Jews who are just as horrified as I am at the Zionist cause, yet you trot out your unverified propoganda. | |||
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"The interesting part of this story is Trump's middle east envoy, Steve Witkoff is already conducting negotiations. It would be an absolutely amazing outcome if this conflict is resolved when he gets into office. I can't see what else trump could do to Gaza and the Palestinians that Israel hasn't already done. Gaza and Palestinians are not the puppet masters. Sanctioning Iran right now will bite and they can't afford any unrest from their citizens. There is more than 1 way to skin a cat. Depends on how/if Iran has any control of Hamas. Support yes but control? Regime change hasn't usually worked with unexpected consequences so yet more conflict in in the middle east perhaps? Iran pull the strings of Hamas, they provoked October 7th attacks, funded it and trained Hamas. Iran's aim was to destabilise Israel who were in talks with Saudi ref, normalising relations. This was also being supported by the US. Can you supply sources that Iran "ordered" the 7 October attacks? I also see no logic in the 7 October attacks changing Saudi"s decision to normalise relations so would like to see more on that I’m not going to get drawn into a long if, but and maybe. Iran trained Hamas, arm them and fund them. I didn’t say Iran ordered the attack. Iran was upset on 2 fronts, oil sanctions, withdrawal from the nuclear program. Both of these events led to attacks on shipping and the Royal Marines boarding a ship. The US can bring them back in from the wilderness if they wish, and if they do it will cease the conflict. I think that's a little simplistic to suggest that the war could be ended by Irans inclusion back into the diplomatic community. Whilst Iran does, fund, train and arm Hamas, they only do so because of their common hatered of Israel and the Jews. Other than this they found differing beliefs on many religious grounds, Hamas being Sunni whilst Iran are predominantly Shiite. These differences were highlighted in 2012 when relationship between the Terror group and Iran broke down as Hamas sided with the Sunni rebels and Iran supported the Assad, Shiite, regime. It's for this reason that I don't think what you are suggesting will come to fruition. Currently the relationship is one of convenience against a common enemy, much like that of Rissia and the Allies when they fought the Nazis. When that was over, allies became enemies during the Cold War and I can see that happening here. Their religious dogma will not allow a cordial relationship in the absence of a common foe. I do believe you are right about the other things you said about oth we countries wanting to 'normalise' their relationship with Israel and your reasoning about why Iran is so annoyed with the US is spot on, but the removal of sanctions won't be a precursor to peace, if it wasn't for the Israelis and the Jews they still be trying to kill each other over their dogmatic adherence to religious extremism. Mrs x I was a little lazy in my reply, I can see how what I wrote looks like I'm suggesting it will bring an end to the war. I should have been clearer, I think it would pause the hostilities. expanding on the why.. Iran are suffering under sanctions imposed on them after the US withdrew from JCPOA, and have literally increased their attentions and actions on every reason the US gave for the withdraw. One of those reasons was the influence and Iran’s support for Hamas, Hezbollah, and the Houthis. After sanctions were originally lifted under JCPOA in 2016 it gave Iran access to $100 Billion in frozen assets, access to international banking and markets, they were selling millions of barrels oil per day etc etc. Younger generations in Iran hoped that change was on its way, when the sanctions came back in, the mood was crushed. Public trust in the government eroded due to economic downturn, crackdowns on dissent by the morality police, and real fears from external attacks like the one by Israel, means Iranian powers face growing internal pressure which they are at risk of losing control of. If Trump offers to ease sanctions, it could give Iran a reason to deescalate its support and use its influence to drive out a ceasefire, at least temporarily. That said, this is just my opinion. I don’t have evidence, I simply think this approach could help unpick the deadlock towards a ceasefire.Everything you say makes sense and may happen. However I'm just pointing out that whilst Iran and funding Hamas now, it's a marriage of convenience. There ideas and aims do not always align, like in Syria in 2012 when relationship between the two groups ceased due to conflicting differences regarding support for the two sides in the conflict. Hamas supporting the Sunni rebels, whilst Iran supported the Asad regime. So even though Iran would possible rein in any potential support for Hamas, this would probably not be enough for Hamas to end hostilities, they are too committed in the annihilation of Israel and the Jews to stop. Whilst we all know they are Irans proxy, misguided pride and evil religious dogma would force them to continue fighting. But I may be wrong, time will tell, Mrs x It wont stop Hamas, it will allow them an out for now, which they badly need. I have no doubt that if this path was taken Iran would be offering Hamas a future carrot, for a return of the hostages and a ceasefire. It is a win win, for now.Also think it may not be in everyone's interest to have a ceasefire right now. Sometimes diplomacy just doesn't work and unfortunately I think this may be one such case. It's like the Nazis in WW2. They just lied to everyone about their heinous plans and then carried on regardless. First lying about their annexation plans, then lying to form alliances they would ultimately betray. When you are dealing with dogmatic zealots sometimes the only way is to remove the threat entirely. You cannot stop, allow them to regroup because they will just attack and never stop. There God is superior to any other god and according to them he's telling them to do this. For them it's righteous, they must do this this if they are faithful to their religion, even though they are corrupting the religion for their evil aims. So like Nazism I think they only way to truly stop this conflict is to wipe out Islamic fundamentalist terrorism once and for all. This is Israels March on Berlin and I think that that's how they view it right now. This is a chance to eradicate terrorism in the area. It doesn't seem to be very humanitarian but in the long term, if it can be achieved, it will be looked upon favourably, like the annihilation of Nazism. I just want to point out that this is totally separate from killing a particular race or people's, I'm merely talking g about the notion of wiping another evil ideology from the face of the Earth, not a particular race or group of people, because I know if I don't mention that I'll be accused of supporting genocide, which I'm not, what I am supporting is the extention of terrorist ideology, that's all. Mrs x Only 15% believe that statement." Where did we crunch them number? I never got asked! | |||
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"Do you propose even more war and more conflict instead of being able to talk and reach compromise. It worked for Ireland. Not perfect but a hell of a lot better over there now - don't you agree?You obviously know nothing or little about Khartoum, or the Canp David Accords. The Jews have offered peace and solutions to the Palestinian issue on 5 times previously and the Palestinians have refused to discuss this. But yeah it's all the Jews fault. Mrs x It's a shame your having to invent arguments I've never put forward which is below the belt even for you. I've never blamed Jews, it's the Zionist movement and the Likud party (formed by a convicted terrorist btw) that's the problem. What is so wrong to stop the conflict in the middle east through negotiation instead of wars ? Why do you have to invent statements I've never made to point score? Why is it you advocate war to support netenyahus Zionist ideology which isn't in American or UK interests? Let alone the middle east. You seem to prefer war and countless more dead rather than negotiated settlements. I'm not sorry that Ireland is peaceful now. I hope your not too disappointed. I don't want War, I just don't want terrorism. You cannot negotiate with religious zealots. These people don't just want to terminate all Jews, they want to terminate ALL non believers. So once finished with the Jews do you think they will stop because if you do can you explain why more innocent Muslims have been killed by Islami terrorism than any other group? Zionism was created as a call for Jews to return home. That's all, nothing more. It has however been corrupted by the few as a call to arms to support their violent methods to achieve there aims. But this is very different from what Zionism meant upon creation. By you repeating the mantra that Zionism is evil is like me saying all Muslims are terrorist, because they believe in the same religion as Hamas, when it's clearly not the case. Most Muslims are peaceful, certainly not terrorists just as most Zionists just want to live in their ancestral home and are not violent. I only want the removal of an evil ideology, I don't want War but if the religious zealots start a war, with actions such as the 7th Oct, it seems fairly clear that they don't want to negotiate and an armed struggle may be the only way to achieve this. Just like the Allies stamped out Nazism. So let me point out once and for all, I do not want War, I do not want any innocent lives to be lost, I just want the eradication of an evil, dogmatic, ideology to be removed from the Earth. If this could be achieved by doing something very simple like with the press of a button, the flicking of a switch or some nice words shared with each other then that's my preferred option, if it takes an armed struggle, like in WW2 so be it. But to reiterate I just want the death of this terrorist ideology, not the death of any people and it's the responsibility of those spouting these evil doctrines to either stop, or be stopped, it's their choice. So I'll ask you a similar question, why do you want to see the continuation of extreme religious, murderous, dogma rather than see it stop? Mrs x Ah okay - so what your saying is Zionism isn't based on religious zealots and the Likud party which was formed by a terrorist banned from entering the UK is moderate. The same party deliberately starving people to death facing arrest warrants and committing other illegal acts against UN resolutions. You openly admitting supporting the extermination of a group of people And you claim the others are the extremists. I'm not sure what you've read but I've not said anything like that as for the Likud party, I've not mentioned them on here at all. I said Zionism, originally was just a movement regarding returning home, it has since been corrupted by a few and used, wrongly, to further their violent ends. I've not mentioned on here about anyone starving to death anyone else or arrest warrants or UN Resolutions. Not sure if you are mixing me up with someone else or you just post rubbish, which is totally untrue hoping that others won't be bothered to actual read my posts to see your fabrications. Not one mention of any wrong doing by Hamas or Islamic terrorists but not surprised, you never do eh Dan, Mrs xSorry missed the bit were you said I support the extermination of group of people but I haven't. I've made it quite clear I want an ideology to be exterminated not a group of people. If you are going to try and quote things I post, do yourself a favour actually read what I post and comment on that rather than making things up, just makes ot easier for other readers. And yes Hamas are the extremists, Oct 7th demonstrates that, as does throwing gays of roofs to their death for being gay, beheadong non believers, burning babies alive in ovens that kind of thing, none of which I think Jews have done. But don't stop making stuff up, ot might just mean you have nothing to say eh Dan, Mrs x Wow, and you accuse me of making things up. And yes the Zionists are busy starving and freezing babies to death in Gaza as documented by various humanitarian organisations , and protested about by Jews who are just as horrified as I am at the Zionist cause, yet you trot out your unverified propoganda. " Liar, liar pants on fire... you are so easy, I've never said anything about this. I have said a certain few have corrupted the original meaning of Zionism, saying that they even use violence in its name. I go on to say it's wrong, and condemn it but not all Zionists are violent, that's a fact not propaganda. But carry on with your deranged lies about what I've allegedly said, it's quite funny and brightens up a dull day. Wondering what you are going to make up next. Still no condemnation of the terrorists though, you are hilarious 🤣 😆 😂 Mrs x | |||
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" So I'll ask you a similar question, why do you want to see the continuation of extreme religious, murderous, dogma rather than see it stop? Mrs x Have you ever read the Talmud, the book zionists go off of? The book that says any non believers (gentiles) are to be killed by believers, which isn't a crime and that a believer can have sex with a gentile minor and it's not a crime as gentiles are viewed as non human beasts. Where is your outcry for that? Does that not fall into your "dogmatic zealot" category? What about Israel being a safe haven for people convicted of being with minors, you have no problem with that or you're uneducated on it and think it only happens in the Muslim community? The Catholic Church has a notorious history of SA with minors but I haven't heard you mentoin that once, why is that?" This is a remarkable response. Upon being asked: "why do you want to see the continuation of extreme religious, murderous, dogma rather than see it stop?" In the context of a current and present issue being discussed, you then engage in some whataboutism about Judaism and Christianity. Both of these religions have problematic individuals and include some problematic groups (as do all religions). Both religions have, over the past few thousand years, held beliefs that are difficult to reconcile with modern Western civilization and social norms. But that's not really an answer to the snippet to which you were responding. Now, perhaps you are actually an expert in Talmud - you ask "have you ever read Talmud". And, in your studies, you came across an obscure passage that you've read and understood and you're sharing it here. A quick Google search suggests that this book (series) runs to thousands of pages in ancient Aramaic, is subject to argument and discussion, and forms only part of modern Jewish practice. You didn't "ever read the Talmud". You found a website that looks to cherry pick something that appears sordid, with the goal of trashing Jews. Moreover, the claims are not just wrong, but out-of-context wrong. You are propagating mistruths about Judaism why? But let's assume, for the sake of argument, that your scholarship in ancient Aramaic texts is 100% spot-on correct. Is it your claim that religious Judaism tolerates or encourages the murder of non-believers? Is it your claim that religious Judaism tolerates or encourages sex with gentile minors? It doesn't. Might there be criminal individuals? Yes. But Israel has extradited paedophiles. There was indeed a loophole that was previously exploited by people fleeing to Israel from countries with no extradition treaty, but Israel has proactively worked to close this loophole, specifically with regard to paedophilia. Christian churches are going through a soul-searching moment and have implemented safeguards that didn't exist decades ago. As a gargantuan organisation, change is slow, but wrongdoing is admitted and steps are being taken. Are there still issues? There always will be in any large organisation or culture. But the key here is that nobody in a meaningful position of religious power in Christianity or Judaism will ever defend paedophilia or the murder of non-believers. " Where is your outcry for that? Does that not fall into your "dogmatic zealot" category? " There have, indeed, been threads about the Church - much outcry has been expressed, universally. Similarly in threads about religiously tolerated paedophilia about other religions. But this whataboutism isn't about outcry. It's about digging up perceived dirt. Why would you do that? Can you not make an argument without throwing Judaism and Christianity under the bus? Do you believe that Jews and (Catholic) Christians are terrible people? | |||
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"Do you propose even more war and more conflict instead of being able to talk and reach compromise. It worked for Ireland. Not perfect but a hell of a lot better over there now - don't you agree?You obviously know nothing or little about Khartoum, or the Canp David Accords. The Jews have offered peace and solutions to the Palestinian issue on 5 times previously and the Palestinians have refused to discuss this. But yeah it's all the Jews fault. Mrs x It's a shame your having to invent arguments I've never put forward which is below the belt even for you. I've never blamed Jews, it's the Zionist movement and the Likud party (formed by a convicted terrorist btw) that's the problem. What is so wrong to stop the conflict in the middle east through negotiation instead of wars ? Why do you have to invent statements I've never made to point score? Why is it you advocate war to support netenyahus Zionist ideology which isn't in American or UK interests? Let alone the middle east. You seem to prefer war and countless more dead rather than negotiated settlements. I'm not sorry that Ireland is peaceful now. I hope your not too disappointed. I don't want War, I just don't want terrorism. You cannot negotiate with religious zealots. These people don't just want to terminate all Jews, they want to terminate ALL non believers. So once finished with the Jews do you think they will stop because if you do can you explain why more innocent Muslims have been killed by Islami terrorism than any other group? Zionism was created as a call for Jews to return home. That's all, nothing more. It has however been corrupted by the few as a call to arms to support their violent methods to achieve there aims. But this is very different from what Zionism meant upon creation. By you repeating the mantra that Zionism is evil is like me saying all Muslims are terrorist, because they believe in the same religion as Hamas, when it's clearly not the case. Most Muslims are peaceful, certainly not terrorists just as most Zionists just want to live in their ancestral home and are not violent. I only want the removal of an evil ideology, I don't want War but if the religious zealots start a war, with actions such as the 7th Oct, it seems fairly clear that they don't want to negotiate and an armed struggle may be the only way to achieve this. Just like the Allies stamped out Nazism. So let me point out once and for all, I do not want War, I do not want any innocent lives to be lost, I just want the eradication of an evil, dogmatic, ideology to be removed from the Earth. If this could be achieved by doing something very simple like with the press of a button, the flicking of a switch or some nice words shared with each other then that's my preferred option, if it takes an armed struggle, like in WW2 so be it. But to reiterate I just want the death of this terrorist ideology, not the death of any people and it's the responsibility of those spouting these evil doctrines to either stop, or be stopped, it's their choice. So I'll ask you a similar question, why do you want to see the continuation of extreme religious, murderous, dogma rather than see it stop? Mrs x Ah okay - so what your saying is Zionism isn't based on religious zealots and the Likud party which was formed by a terrorist banned from entering the UK is moderate. The same party deliberately starving people to death facing arrest warrants and committing other illegal acts against UN resolutions. You openly admitting supporting the extermination of a group of people And you claim the others are the extremists. I'm not sure what you've read but I've not said anything like that as for the Likud party, I've not mentioned them on here at all. I said Zionism, originally was just a movement regarding returning home, it has since been corrupted by a few and used, wrongly, to further their violent ends. I've not mentioned on here about anyone starving to death anyone else or arrest warrants or UN Resolutions. Not sure if you are mixing me up with someone else or you just post rubbish, which is totally untrue hoping that others won't be bothered to actual read my posts to see your fabrications. Not one mention of any wrong doing by Hamas or Islamic terrorists but not surprised, you never do eh Dan, Mrs xSorry missed the bit were you said I support the extermination of group of people but I haven't. I've made it quite clear I want an ideology to be exterminated not a group of people. If you are going to try and quote things I post, do yourself a favour actually read what I post and comment on that rather than making things up, just makes ot easier for other readers. And yes Hamas are the extremists, Oct 7th demonstrates that, as does throwing gays of roofs to their death for being gay, beheadong non believers, burning babies alive in ovens that kind of thing, none of which I think Jews have done. But don't stop making stuff up, ot might just mean you have nothing to say eh Dan, Mrs x Wow, and you accuse me of making things up. And yes the Zionists are busy starving and freezing babies to death in Gaza as documented by various humanitarian organisations , and protested about by Jews who are just as horrified as I am at the Zionist cause, yet you trot out your unverified propoganda. Liar, liar pants on fire... you are so easy, I've never said anything about this. I have said a certain few have corrupted the original meaning of Zionism, saying that they even use violence in its name. I go on to say it's wrong, and condemn it but not all Zionists are violent, that's a fact not propaganda. But carry on with your deranged lies about what I've allegedly said, it's quite funny and brightens up a dull day. Wondering what you are going to make up next. Still no condemnation of the terrorists though, you are hilarious 🤣 😆 😂 Mrs x" Another sensible balanced well thought out considered reply  - not | |||
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"Trumps said and repeated if Hamas do not release the remaining hostages by his inauguration then ‘all hell will break out in the middle east’ Sounds like a promise to flatten what’s left of Gaza Is this another hollow statement or will he do more than Biden, who authorised and supplied 80’000 tonnes of bombs that have already fallen on Gaza. " That works out at over 567 tonnes of bombs for every square mile of the Gaza Strip. Imagine that where you live. Imagine that your family was amongst the hostages and this was your governments response to the active hostage situation. | |||
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"Do you propose even more war and more conflict instead of being able to talk and reach compromise. It worked for Ireland. Not perfect but a hell of a lot better over there now - don't you agree?You obviously know nothing or little about Khartoum, or the Canp David Accords. The Jews have offered peace and solutions to the Palestinian issue on 5 times previously and the Palestinians have refused to discuss this. But yeah it's all the Jews fault. Mrs x It's a shame your having to invent arguments I've never put forward which is below the belt even for you. I've never blamed Jews, it's the Zionist movement and the Likud party (formed by a convicted terrorist btw) that's the problem. What is so wrong to stop the conflict in the middle east through negotiation instead of wars ? Why do you have to invent statements I've never made to point score? Why is it you advocate war to support netenyahus Zionist ideology which isn't in American or UK interests? Let alone the middle east. You seem to prefer war and countless more dead rather than negotiated settlements. I'm not sorry that Ireland is peaceful now. I hope your not too disappointed. I don't want War, I just don't want terrorism. You cannot negotiate with religious zealots. These people don't just want to terminate all Jews, they want to terminate ALL non believers. So once finished with the Jews do you think they will stop because if you do can you explain why more innocent Muslims have been killed by Islami terrorism than any other group? Zionism was created as a call for Jews to return home. That's all, nothing more. It has however been corrupted by the few as a call to arms to support their violent methods to achieve there aims. But this is very different from what Zionism meant upon creation. By you repeating the mantra that Zionism is evil is like me saying all Muslims are terrorist, because they believe in the same religion as Hamas, when it's clearly not the case. Most Muslims are peaceful, certainly not terrorists just as most Zionists just want to live in their ancestral home and are not violent. I only want the removal of an evil ideology, I don't want War but if the religious zealots start a war, with actions such as the 7th Oct, it seems fairly clear that they don't want to negotiate and an armed struggle may be the only way to achieve this. Just like the Allies stamped out Nazism. So let me point out once and for all, I do not want War, I do not want any innocent lives to be lost, I just want the eradication of an evil, dogmatic, ideology to be removed from the Earth. If this could be achieved by doing something very simple like with the press of a button, the flicking of a switch or some nice words shared with each other then that's my preferred option, if it takes an armed struggle, like in WW2 so be it. But to reiterate I just want the death of this terrorist ideology, not the death of any people and it's the responsibility of those spouting these evil doctrines to either stop, or be stopped, it's their choice. So I'll ask you a similar question, why do you want to see the continuation of extreme religious, murderous, dogma rather than see it stop? Mrs x Ah okay - so what your saying is Zionism isn't based on religious zealots and the Likud party which was formed by a terrorist banned from entering the UK is moderate. The same party deliberately starving people to death facing arrest warrants and committing other illegal acts against UN resolutions. You openly admitting supporting the extermination of a group of people And you claim the others are the extremists. I'm not sure what you've read but I've not said anything like that as for the Likud party, I've not mentioned them on here at all. I said Zionism, originally was just a movement regarding returning home, it has since been corrupted by a few and used, wrongly, to further their violent ends. I've not mentioned on here about anyone starving to death anyone else or arrest warrants or UN Resolutions. Not sure if you are mixing me up with someone else or you just post rubbish, which is totally untrue hoping that others won't be bothered to actual read my posts to see your fabrications. Not one mention of any wrong doing by Hamas or Islamic terrorists but not surprised, you never do eh Dan, Mrs xSorry missed the bit were you said I support the extermination of group of people but I haven't. I've made it quite clear I want an ideology to be exterminated not a group of people. If you are going to try and quote things I post, do yourself a favour actually read what I post and comment on that rather than making things up, just makes ot easier for other readers. And yes Hamas are the extremists, Oct 7th demonstrates that, as does throwing gays of roofs to their death for being gay, beheadong non believers, burning babies alive in ovens that kind of thing, none of which I think Jews have done. But don't stop making stuff up, ot might just mean you have nothing to say eh Dan, Mrs x" If you doubt that Zionists have killed children, look up the Deir Yassin massacre. It’s repulsive. | |||
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"Trumps said and repeated if Hamas do not release the remaining hostages by his inauguration then ‘all hell will break out in the middle east’ Sounds like a promise to flatten what’s left of Gaza Is this another hollow statement or will he do more than Biden, who authorised and supplied 80’000 tonnes of bombs that have already fallen on Gaza. That works out at over 567 tonnes of bombs for every square mile of the Gaza Strip. Imagine that where you live. Imagine that your family was amongst the hostages and this was your governments response to the active hostage situation." There's been large and persistent demonstrations against netenyahu in Tel-Aviv and the resignation of galant over the hostage issue. Not sure if that's still going on | |||
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"Do you propose even more war and more conflict instead of being able to talk and reach compromise. It worked for Ireland. Not perfect but a hell of a lot better over there now - don't you agree?You obviously know nothing or little about Khartoum, or the Canp David Accords. The Jews have offered peace and solutions to the Palestinian issue on 5 times previously and the Palestinians have refused to discuss this. But yeah it's all the Jews fault. Mrs x It's a shame your having to invent arguments I've never put forward which is below the belt even for you. I've never blamed Jews, it's the Zionist movement and the Likud party (formed by a convicted terrorist btw) that's the problem. What is so wrong to stop the conflict in the middle east through negotiation instead of wars ? Why do you have to invent statements I've never made to point score? Why is it you advocate war to support netenyahus Zionist ideology which isn't in American or UK interests? Let alone the middle east. You seem to prefer war and countless more dead rather than negotiated settlements. I'm not sorry that Ireland is peaceful now. I hope your not too disappointed. I don't want War, I just don't want terrorism. You cannot negotiate with religious zealots. These people don't just want to terminate all Jews, they want to terminate ALL non believers. So once finished with the Jews do you think they will stop because if you do can you explain why more innocent Muslims have been killed by Islami terrorism than any other group? Zionism was created as a call for Jews to return home. That's all, nothing more. It has however been corrupted by the few as a call to arms to support their violent methods to achieve there aims. But this is very different from what Zionism meant upon creation. By you repeating the mantra that Zionism is evil is like me saying all Muslims are terrorist, because they believe in the same religion as Hamas, when it's clearly not the case. Most Muslims are peaceful, certainly not terrorists just as most Zionists just want to live in their ancestral home and are not violent. I only want the removal of an evil ideology, I don't want War but if the religious zealots start a war, with actions such as the 7th Oct, it seems fairly clear that they don't want to negotiate and an armed struggle may be the only way to achieve this. Just like the Allies stamped out Nazism. So let me point out once and for all, I do not want War, I do not want any innocent lives to be lost, I just want the eradication of an evil, dogmatic, ideology to be removed from the Earth. If this could be achieved by doing something very simple like with the press of a button, the flicking of a switch or some nice words shared with each other then that's my preferred option, if it takes an armed struggle, like in WW2 so be it. But to reiterate I just want the death of this terrorist ideology, not the death of any people and it's the responsibility of those spouting these evil doctrines to either stop, or be stopped, it's their choice. So I'll ask you a similar question, why do you want to see the continuation of extreme religious, murderous, dogma rather than see it stop? Mrs x Ah okay - so what your saying is Zionism isn't based on religious zealots and the Likud party which was formed by a terrorist banned from entering the UK is moderate. The same party deliberately starving people to death facing arrest warrants and committing other illegal acts against UN resolutions. You openly admitting supporting the extermination of a group of people And you claim the others are the extremists. I'm not sure what you've read but I've not said anything like that as for the Likud party, I've not mentioned them on here at all. I said Zionism, originally was just a movement regarding returning home, it has since been corrupted by a few and used, wrongly, to further their violent ends. I've not mentioned on here about anyone starving to death anyone else or arrest warrants or UN Resolutions. Not sure if you are mixing me up with someone else or you just post rubbish, which is totally untrue hoping that others won't be bothered to actual read my posts to see your fabrications. Not one mention of any wrong doing by Hamas or Islamic terrorists but not surprised, you never do eh Dan, Mrs xSorry missed the bit were you said I support the extermination of group of people but I haven't. I've made it quite clear I want an ideology to be exterminated not a group of people. If you are going to try and quote things I post, do yourself a favour actually read what I post and comment on that rather than making things up, just makes ot easier for other readers. And yes Hamas are the extremists, Oct 7th demonstrates that, as does throwing gays of roofs to their death for being gay, beheadong non believers, burning babies alive in ovens that kind of thing, none of which I think Jews have done. But don't stop making stuff up, ot might just mean you have nothing to say eh Dan, Mrs x If you doubt that Zionists have killed children, look up the Deir Yassin massacre. It’s repulsive." I don't doubt that at all, it was a terrible tragedy for those villagers and I condemn it wholeheartedly. But my statement still has validity, I don't see Jews beheading others fir things as trivial as being non believers, executing says by throwing them off roofs or burning babies alive in ovens. Hamas terrorists have done all that. It's a vile, evil, religious ideology that they follow and that's what should be exterminated. Mrs x | |||
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"Do you propose even more war and more conflict instead of being able to talk and reach compromise. It worked for Ireland. Not perfect but a hell of a lot better over there now - don't you agree?You obviously know nothing or little about Khartoum, or the Canp David Accords. The Jews have offered peace and solutions to the Palestinian issue on 5 times previously and the Palestinians have refused to discuss this. But yeah it's all the Jews fault. Mrs x It's a shame your having to invent arguments I've never put forward which is below the belt even for you. I've never blamed Jews, it's the Zionist movement and the Likud party (formed by a convicted terrorist btw) that's the problem. What is so wrong to stop the conflict in the middle east through negotiation instead of wars ? Why do you have to invent statements I've never made to point score? Why is it you advocate war to support netenyahus Zionist ideology which isn't in American or UK interests? Let alone the middle east. You seem to prefer war and countless more dead rather than negotiated settlements. I'm not sorry that Ireland is peaceful now. I hope your not too disappointed. I don't want War, I just don't want terrorism. You cannot negotiate with religious zealots. These people don't just want to terminate all Jews, they want to terminate ALL non believers. So once finished with the Jews do you think they will stop because if you do can you explain why more innocent Muslims have been killed by Islami terrorism than any other group? Zionism was created as a call for Jews to return home. That's all, nothing more. It has however been corrupted by the few as a call to arms to support their violent methods to achieve there aims. But this is very different from what Zionism meant upon creation. By you repeating the mantra that Zionism is evil is like me saying all Muslims are terrorist, because they believe in the same religion as Hamas, when it's clearly not the case. Most Muslims are peaceful, certainly not terrorists just as most Zionists just want to live in their ancestral home and are not violent. I only want the removal of an evil ideology, I don't want War but if the religious zealots start a war, with actions such as the 7th Oct, it seems fairly clear that they don't want to negotiate and an armed struggle may be the only way to achieve this. Just like the Allies stamped out Nazism. So let me point out once and for all, I do not want War, I do not want any innocent lives to be lost, I just want the eradication of an evil, dogmatic, ideology to be removed from the Earth. If this could be achieved by doing something very simple like with the press of a button, the flicking of a switch or some nice words shared with each other then that's my preferred option, if it takes an armed struggle, like in WW2 so be it. But to reiterate I just want the death of this terrorist ideology, not the death of any people and it's the responsibility of those spouting these evil doctrines to either stop, or be stopped, it's their choice. So I'll ask you a similar question, why do you want to see the continuation of extreme religious, murderous, dogma rather than see it stop? Mrs x Ah okay - so what your saying is Zionism isn't based on religious zealots and the Likud party which was formed by a terrorist banned from entering the UK is moderate. The same party deliberately starving people to death facing arrest warrants and committing other illegal acts against UN resolutions. You openly admitting supporting the extermination of a group of people And you claim the others are the extremists. I'm not sure what you've read but I've not said anything like that as for the Likud party, I've not mentioned them on here at all. I said Zionism, originally was just a movement regarding returning home, it has since been corrupted by a few and used, wrongly, to further their violent ends. I've not mentioned on here about anyone starving to death anyone else or arrest warrants or UN Resolutions. Not sure if you are mixing me up with someone else or you just post rubbish, which is totally untrue hoping that others won't be bothered to actual read my posts to see your fabrications. Not one mention of any wrong doing by Hamas or Islamic terrorists but not surprised, you never do eh Dan, Mrs xSorry missed the bit were you said I support the extermination of group of people but I haven't. I've made it quite clear I want an ideology to be exterminated not a group of people. If you are going to try and quote things I post, do yourself a favour actually read what I post and comment on that rather than making things up, just makes ot easier for other readers. And yes Hamas are the extremists, Oct 7th demonstrates that, as does throwing gays of roofs to their death for being gay, beheadong non believers, burning babies alive in ovens that kind of thing, none of which I think Jews have done. But don't stop making stuff up, ot might just mean you have nothing to say eh Dan, Mrs x Wow, and you accuse me of making things up. And yes the Zionists are busy starving and freezing babies to death in Gaza as documented by various humanitarian organisations , and protested about by Jews who are just as horrified as I am at the Zionist cause, yet you trot out your unverified propoganda. Liar, liar pants on fire... you are so easy, I've never said anything about this. I have said a certain few have corrupted the original meaning of Zionism, saying that they even use violence in its name. I go on to say it's wrong, and condemn it but not all Zionists are violent, that's a fact not propaganda. But carry on with your deranged lies about what I've allegedly said, it's quite funny and brightens up a dull day. Wondering what you are going to make up next. Still no condemnation of the terrorists though, you are hilarious 🤣 😆 😂 Mrs x Another sensible balanced well thought out considered reply - not"Haha, you'd say black was white if it suited your narrative. I clearly state that certain individuals are violent and do so in the name of Zionism but they are not following the original Zionism. They are doing what Islamic terrorist have done with Islam and corrupted its true purpose to support their violent aims. So even though I say certain groups and individuals, who claim to be Zionists, are wrong thats not enough for you. Unless you want me to say all Jews are bad because ill never do that, just like i won't say all Muslims are bad, just those that follow and act upon the evil, horrendous teachings of Islamic terrorism. Looking forward to how you are going to spin this. 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" Haha, you'd say black was white if it suited your narrative. I clearly state that certain individuals are violent and do so in the name of Zionism but they are not following the original Zionism. They are doing what Islamic terrorist have done with Islam and corrupted its true purpose to support their violent aims. So even though I say certain groups and individuals, who claim to be Zionists, are wrong thats not enough for you. Unless you want me to say all Jews are bad because ill never do that, just like i won't say all Muslims are bad, just those that follow and act upon the evil, horrendous teachings of Islamic terrorism. Looking forward to how you are going to spin this. " Okay so I'll roll my sleeves up and ignoring your personal insults, and cutting through your opinions based on who knows What: Zionism is a Jewish based nationalist movement with the goal of the creation of a Jewish national state in Palestine. Palestine had people already living there so had to be forcibly removed including murder of Palestinians Therefore all Zionists are signed up to this extremist ideology. Where you get this " original Zionism " have violent people who are not following the " true Zionism and spoiled it" thing isn't making sense. Zionism is based on extremism formed in Europe by extremist jewish Europeans in the 1900s. the likes of ISIS being formed exactly the same way by Muslim extremists who wanted a caliphate of their own. Different religions but the same evil zealotry It's bollocks to say all Jews are bad, and only Muslims are bad - only those signed up to Zionism or ISIS respectively are bad. Can you cut down on the insults when replying as it's easier to get to the point of why your saying in reply . Thanks. | |||
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" Haha, you'd say black was white if it suited your narrative. I clearly state that certain individuals are violent and do so in the name of Zionism but they are not following the original Zionism. They are doing what Islamic terrorist have done with Islam and corrupted its true purpose to support their violent aims. So even though I say certain groups and individuals, who claim to be Zionists, are wrong thats not enough for you. Unless you want me to say all Jews are bad because ill never do that, just like i won't say all Muslims are bad, just those that follow and act upon the evil, horrendous teachings of Islamic terrorism. Looking forward to how you are going to spin this. Okay so I'll roll my sleeves up and ignoring your personal insults, and cutting through your opinions based on who knows What: Zionism is a Jewish based nationalist movement with the goal of the creation of a Jewish national state in Palestine. Palestine had people already living there so had to be forcibly removed including murder of Palestinians Therefore all Zionists are signed up to this extremist ideology. Where you get this " original Zionism " have violent people who are not following the " true Zionism and spoiled it" thing isn't making sense. Zionism is based on extremism formed in Europe by extremist jewish Europeans in the 1900s. the likes of ISIS being formed exactly the same way by Muslim extremists who wanted a caliphate of their own. Different religions but the same evil zealotry It's bollocks to say all Jews are bad, and only Muslims are bad - only those signed up to Zionism or ISIS respectively are bad. Can you cut down on the insults when replying as it's easier to get to the point of why your saying in reply . Thanks." Not one insult did I use against you, so you are just making stuff up to suit your narrative., try cutting down on that. Can you tell me who these extremists were who founded Zionism please because never heard this before, when you state Jewish Europeans founded this in the 1900's.... 'Where you get this " original Zionism " have violent people who are not following the " true Zionism and spoiled it" thing isn't making sense. Zionism is based on extremism formed in Europe by extremist jewish Europeans in the 1900s." That might be a thing I need to look at. And when you say... 'It's bollocks to say all Jews are bad, and only Muslims are bad' ive never said this And when you say... 'only those signed up to Zionism or ISIS respectively are bad.' Is very similar to what I said, only those that follow a corruption of Zionism are wrong and those Muslims that are Islamic terrorists or support Islamic terrorists are wrong. So you need to re-read what I've written. But you won't because facts aren't your friends it seems. Mrs x | |||
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"The interesting part of this story is Trump's middle east envoy, Steve Witkoff is already conducting negotiations. It would be an absolutely amazing outcome if this conflict is resolved when he gets into office. I can't see what else trump could do to Gaza and the Palestinians that Israel hasn't already done. Gaza and Palestinians are not the puppet masters. Sanctioning Iran right now will bite and they can't afford any unrest from their citizens. There is more than 1 way to skin a cat. Depends on how/if Iran has any control of Hamas. Support yes but control? Regime change hasn't usually worked with unexpected consequences so yet more conflict in in the middle east perhaps? Iran pull the strings of Hamas, they provoked October 7th attacks, funded it and trained Hamas. Iran's aim was to destabilise Israel who were in talks with Saudi ref, normalising relations. This was also being supported by the US. Can you supply sources that Iran "ordered" the 7 October attacks? I also see no logic in the 7 October attacks changing Saudi"s decision to normalise relations so would like to see more on that I’m not going to get drawn into a long if, but and maybe. Iran trained Hamas, arm them and fund them. I didn’t say Iran ordered the attack. Iran was upset on 2 fronts, oil sanctions, withdrawal from the nuclear program. Both of these events led to attacks on shipping and the Royal Marines boarding a ship. The US can bring them back in from the wilderness if they wish, and if they do it will cease the conflict. I can see a much better alternative. Bring who in from the wilderness? Is that the Gazans (the ones that haven't bwen starved or frozen to death) to go back to pre- 7 October and be routinely oppressed? Or do you mean Iran, who have been shafted over having agreements being broken that they honoured with the nuclear deal by America? Besides having a peaceful government been toppled in the 70s by the CIA because they wouldn't do American bidding which ended up with a regime in Iran as it is now? As for not getting into the if but and maybe - I don't blame you. Because after all the messing about in the middle east that's been done by the USA UK and others that's left million plus dead - I think I can bet you that the next round of meddling won't end well USA done quite a good job of providing peace and security in the Middle East, that's why they have allies there, just not with terrorists, Mrs x What allies exactly?Saudi, Egypt, Jordan, to name a few, Mrs x Ah yes the beacons of democracy and human and equal rights. Who? Hamas, Hezbollah, Fatah, PLO, Houthis, Iran, you mean those beacons? Mrs x If you can work it out, all you've mentioned are the results of American policy. You've missed out Isis from your list too btw, another product of America, The X factor, the randomness of variable unintended consequences when meddling What? The X factor? Did they do Britain's got Talent haha. You've missed out since the very dawn of Islam, they have been killing and slaughtering each other in numbers that are vastly larger than anything in Gaza. In Yemen and Syria, more than 10 times the victims, 10 times but you are OK with that because it's all Muslim deaths, committed by Muslims, so no Jews to blame. So 20 times the number of victims in these two conflicts and you are silent on the issue, because Jews weren't involved and you don't know who to blame. 500,000 deaths and you are silent. You happy to be starting again, Dan? Mrs x ----- X factor as in the unknown result, a phrase borrowed by TV. Christians have and still kill each other and slaughtered many in the past. Btw there are Christians dying in Gaza. Is what your saying justifying the killing babies kids? I'm not ok with Yemen and Syria and Somalia where conflict has been shipped up by American forces. You mentioned the Jews. Lots of Jews don't agree with the Zionist movement as I do. Oh I have a good idea who to blame and sorry to disappoint you. What I blame is the conceit of people in power and their ability to justify war as many do. It's found in all corners of the globe. It's brought about over a million Iraqi deaths besides your figures. And your calling me Dan again. Is that some colloquial insult from Ireland? Are you naturally rude or is it because you have nothing meaningful to reply with? The difference between Christian waging war and Muslim acts of terror is that Muslim terrorist, is that Muslim terrorist are committing g acts of terror in the name of their religion, using dogma to justify their evil aims. Christians havent waged a religious war for a very long time now and they fight on secular grounds, normally along national lines. They also do not think its ok to behead people, throw gays off roofs and burn babies alive in ovens. I think that makes a fundamental difference. To wage war in the defence of your country as opposed to committing murder, r@pe and burning imfants alive because you choose to corrupt a religious text to give you divine authority to commit such atrocities. As for the 'conceit of people in power and their ability to justify war as many do.' I don't think it's conceit after the horrific events of Oct 7th. In fact America went to war in WW1, after an attack on their civilians resulting in less than 2 hundred American deaths. The attack on Pearl Harbour result in more deaths than that of Oct 7th but o ly in the hundreds, not thousands. America joined a world war after this and this terrible act was committed by another nations whole fleet and Naval Air Arm. Hamas, the evil murdering g bastards, killed more than half as many using hang gliders. So what Hamas did on Oct 7th was more than justification for another nation to declare war on them, nothing conceited about such a decision. As for tge numbers killed, it's over a million in Yemen and Syria, 500,000 in each conflict. Mrs x" In the aftermath of 7 October, a lot of evidence was obtained from many sources, including video evidence from Apache helicopters, security cameras, and even dead Hamas body cams. Although it's obvious that many crimes were comitted including sexual assaults it wasn't deemed widespread, and the babies being burnt were concluded to be unlikely. Many were also killed in the area between the Gaza fence and the places where Israelis were taken captive but no conclusion on how they were killed. Video footage from an Apache helicopter firing at vehicles and people heading back towards Gaza is Sharkey evidence too. Neither the pilot or machine gunner would be able to tell if the figures on the ground were Hamas terrorists or captives being machine gunned by the Apache helicopter. Thy was from a British analyst who saw the video evidence. | |||
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" Haha, you'd say black was white if it suited your narrative. I clearly state that certain individuals are violent and do so in the name of Zionism but they are not following the original Zionism. They are doing what Islamic terrorist have done with Islam and corrupted its true purpose to support their violent aims. So even though I say certain groups and individuals, who claim to be Zionists, are wrong thats not enough for you. Unless you want me to say all Jews are bad because ill never do that, just like i won't say all Muslims are bad, just those that follow and act upon the evil, horrendous teachings of Islamic terrorism. Looking forward to how you are going to spin this. Okay so I'll roll my sleeves up and ignoring your personal insults, and cutting through your opinions based on who knows What: Zionism is a Jewish based nationalist movement with the goal of the creation of a Jewish national state in Palestine. Palestine had people already living there so had to be forcibly removed including murder of Palestinians Therefore all Zionists are signed up to this extremist ideology. Where you get this " original Zionism " have violent people who are not following the " true Zionism and spoiled it" thing isn't making sense. Zionism is based on extremism formed in Europe by extremist jewish Europeans in the 1900s. the likes of ISIS being formed exactly the same way by Muslim extremists who wanted a caliphate of their own. Different religions but the same evil zealotry It's bollocks to say all Jews are bad, and only Muslims are bad - only those signed up to Zionism or ISIS respectively are bad. Can you cut down on the insults when replying as it's easier to get to the point of why your saying in reply . Thanks. Not one insult did I use against you, so you are just making stuff up to suit your narrative., try cutting down on that. Can you tell me who these extremists were who founded Zionism please because never heard this before, when you state Jewish Europeans founded this in the 1900's.... 'Where you get this " original Zionism " have violent people who are not following the " true Zionism and spoiled it" thing isn't making sense. Zionism is based on extremism formed in Europe by extremist jewish Europeans in the 1900s." That might be a thing I need to look at. And when you say... 'It's bollocks to say all Jews are bad, and only Muslims are bad' ive never said this And when you say... 'only those signed up to Zionism or ISIS respectively are bad.' Is very similar to what I said, only those that follow a corruption of Zionism are wrong and those Muslims that are Islamic terrorists or support Islamic terrorists are wrong. So you need to re-read what I've written. But you won't because facts aren't your friends it seems. Mrs x " Oh no you haven't insulted me at all ... If you can ignore - calling me a liar - calling me ' Dan" - accusing me of making stuff up Arguing black was white to suit my narrative -Supporting Hamasnterrorists -Being anti semetic Oh no of course not! you've been polite and courteous at all times ... Hahahaha 🤣 | |||
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"I don't doubt that at all, it was a terrible tragedy for those villagers and I condemn it wholeheartedly. But my statement still has validity, I don't see Jews beheading others fir things as trivial as being non believers, executing says by throwing them off roofs or burning babies alive in ovens. Hamas terrorists have done all that. It's a vile, evil, religious ideology that they follow and that's what should be exterminated. Mrs x Are you saying that rounding up a whole village, predominantly women and children, then moving them at gunpoint to an enclosed area and machine gunning them all down is any less horrific? Less of a crime? It certainly looks like that’s what you’re saying. It starts when you use the word “but”." What I'm saying is that it was an horrendous incident which I condemn and cannot excused. However to compare paramilitary actions to terrorism is not as simple as it seems. That's why I have not mentioned the paramilitary conflict between the Palestinians and the Jews prior to the establishment of Israel. Lots of it occuring the the 2920's, decades before the UN created Israel. This is because these conflicts were fought with the aim of protecting their own people and the establishment of their own state. Terrorism differs because it has at its goal the primary purpose of instilling terror within a group the terrorist oppose.Inbthis can Hamas states it wishes to wipe out Jews and the state of Israel. In the incident you refer to the paramilitary groups committed an act of terrorism. However I think that each of the groups were disbanded shortly after. In fact one group was defeated by the newly formed IDF and the other group had large numbers of its members arrested for their actions. This seems fundamentally different from Arab states who fund, protect, equip, train and utilise terrorist groups. Other than when such terrorist groups start to attack an Arab state, I've never seen any Arab state take any sort of adverse action towards any of these heinous extremist groups. And as for your other post, I've never said Hamas is a Muslim ideology. Ive said its an Islamic terrorist group, whose political arm are in charge of Gaza, Mrs x | |||
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" Haha, you'd say black was white if it suited your narrative. I clearly state that certain individuals are violent and do so in the name of Zionism but they are not following the original Zionism. They are doing what Islamic terrorist have done with Islam and corrupted its true purpose to support their violent aims. So even though I say certain groups and individuals, who claim to be Zionists, are wrong thats not enough for you. Unless you want me to say all Jews are bad because ill never do that, just like i won't say all Muslims are bad, just those that follow and act upon the evil, horrendous teachings of Islamic terrorism. Looking forward to how you are going to spin this. Okay so I'll roll my sleeves up and ignoring your personal insults, and cutting through your opinions based on who knows What: Zionism is a Jewish based nationalist movement with the goal of the creation of a Jewish national state in Palestine. Palestine had people already living there so had to be forcibly removed including murder of Palestinians Therefore all Zionists are signed up to this extremist ideology. Where you get this " original Zionism " have violent people who are not following the " true Zionism and spoiled it" thing isn't making sense. Zionism is based on extremism formed in Europe by extremist jewish Europeans in the 1900s. the likes of ISIS being formed exactly the same way by Muslim extremists who wanted a caliphate of their own. Different religions but the same evil zealotry It's bollocks to say all Jews are bad, and only Muslims are bad - only those signed up to Zionism or ISIS respectively are bad. Can you cut down on the insults when replying as it's easier to get to the point of why your saying in reply . Thanks. Not one insult did I use against you, so you are just making stuff up to suit your narrative., try cutting down on that. Can you tell me who these extremists were who founded Zionism please because never heard this before, when you state Jewish Europeans founded this in the 1900's.... 'Where you get this " original Zionism " have violent people who are not following the " true Zionism and spoiled it" thing isn't making sense. Zionism is based on extremism formed in Europe by extremist jewish Europeans in the 1900s." That might be a thing I need to look at. And when you say... 'It's bollocks to say all Jews are bad, and only Muslims are bad' ive never said this And when you say... 'only those signed up to Zionism or ISIS respectively are bad.' Is very similar to what I said, only those that follow a corruption of Zionism are wrong and those Muslims that are Islamic terrorists or support Islamic terrorists are wrong. So you need to re-read what I've written. But you won't because facts aren't your friends it seems. Mrs x Oh no you haven't insulted me at all ... If you can ignore - calling me a liar - calling me ' Dan" - accusing me of making stuff up Arguing black was white to suit my narrative -Supporting Hamasnterrorists -Being anti semetic Oh no of course not! you've been polite and courteous at all times ... Hahahaha 🤣"I'm not accusing you of making things up, you did make things up and I told you what these statements were. Making things up is sometimes also called lying. By making things up it appears that you would say anything to help your narrative, hence black & white comment. You make anti-semitic statements due to you only condemning the Jews actions and not others. And you do appear to support Hamas. Even on this thread you implied Hamas actions on Oct 7th were 'orchestrated' by the actions of Israel. No insults there just observations, Mrs x | |||
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"The interesting part of this story is Trump's middle east envoy, Steve Witkoff is already conducting negotiations. It would be an absolutely amazing outcome if this conflict is resolved when he gets into office. I can't see what else trump could do to Gaza and the Palestinians that Israel hasn't already done. Gaza and Palestinians are not the puppet masters. Sanctioning Iran right now will bite and they can't afford any unrest from their citizens. There is more than 1 way to skin a cat. Depends on how/if Iran has any control of Hamas. Support yes but control? Regime change hasn't usually worked with unexpected consequences so yet more conflict in in the middle east perhaps? Iran pull the strings of Hamas, they provoked October 7th attacks, funded it and trained Hamas. Iran's aim was to destabilise Israel who were in talks with Saudi ref, normalising relations. This was also being supported by the US. Can you supply sources that Iran "ordered" the 7 October attacks? I also see no logic in the 7 October attacks changing Saudi"s decision to normalise relations so would like to see more on that I’m not going to get drawn into a long if, but and maybe. Iran trained Hamas, arm them and fund them. I didn’t say Iran ordered the attack. Iran was upset on 2 fronts, oil sanctions, withdrawal from the nuclear program. Both of these events led to attacks on shipping and the Royal Marines boarding a ship. The US can bring them back in from the wilderness if they wish, and if they do it will cease the conflict. I can see a much better alternative. Bring who in from the wilderness? Is that the Gazans (the ones that haven't bwen starved or frozen to death) to go back to pre- 7 October and be routinely oppressed? Or do you mean Iran, who have been shafted over having agreements being broken that they honoured with the nuclear deal by America? Besides having a peaceful government been toppled in the 70s by the CIA because they wouldn't do American bidding which ended up with a regime in Iran as it is now? As for not getting into the if but and maybe - I don't blame you. Because after all the messing about in the middle east that's been done by the USA UK and others that's left million plus dead - I think I can bet you that the next round of meddling won't end well USA done quite a good job of providing peace and security in the Middle East, that's why they have allies there, just not with terrorists, Mrs x What allies exactly?Saudi, Egypt, Jordan, to name a few, Mrs x Ah yes the beacons of democracy and human and equal rights. Who? Hamas, Hezbollah, Fatah, PLO, Houthis, Iran, you mean those beacons? Mrs x If you can work it out, all you've mentioned are the results of American policy. You've missed out Isis from your list too btw, another product of America, The X factor, the randomness of variable unintended consequences when meddling What? The X factor? Did they do Britain's got Talent haha. You've missed out since the very dawn of Islam, they have been killing and slaughtering each other in numbers that are vastly larger than anything in Gaza. In Yemen and Syria, more than 10 times the victims, 10 times but you are OK with that because it's all Muslim deaths, committed by Muslims, so no Jews to blame. So 20 times the number of victims in these two conflicts and you are silent on the issue, because Jews weren't involved and you don't know who to blame. 500,000 deaths and you are silent. You happy to be starting again, Dan? Mrs x ----- X factor as in the unknown result, a phrase borrowed by TV. Christians have and still kill each other and slaughtered many in the past. Btw there are Christians dying in Gaza. Is what your saying justifying the killing babies kids? I'm not ok with Yemen and Syria and Somalia where conflict has been shipped up by American forces. You mentioned the Jews. Lots of Jews don't agree with the Zionist movement as I do. Oh I have a good idea who to blame and sorry to disappoint you. What I blame is the conceit of people in power and their ability to justify war as many do. It's found in all corners of the globe. It's brought about over a million Iraqi deaths besides your figures. And your calling me Dan again. Is that some colloquial insult from Ireland? Are you naturally rude or is it because you have nothing meaningful to reply with? The difference between Christian waging war and Muslim acts of terror is that Muslim terrorist, is that Muslim terrorist are committing g acts of terror in the name of their religion, using dogma to justify their evil aims. Christians havent waged a religious war for a very long time now and they fight on secular grounds, normally along national lines. They also do not think its ok to behead people, throw gays off roofs and burn babies alive in ovens. I think that makes a fundamental difference. To wage war in the defence of your country as opposed to committing murder, r@pe and burning imfants alive because you choose to corrupt a religious text to give you divine authority to commit such atrocities. As for the 'conceit of people in power and their ability to justify war as many do.' I don't think it's conceit after the horrific events of Oct 7th. In fact America went to war in WW1, after an attack on their civilians resulting in less than 2 hundred American deaths. The attack on Pearl Harbour result in more deaths than that of Oct 7th but o ly in the hundreds, not thousands. America joined a world war after this and this terrible act was committed by another nations whole fleet and Naval Air Arm. Hamas, the evil murdering g bastards, killed more than half as many using hang gliders. So what Hamas did on Oct 7th was more than justification for another nation to declare war on them, nothing conceited about such a decision. As for tge numbers killed, it's over a million in Yemen and Syria, 500,000 in each conflict. Mrs x In the aftermath of 7 October, a lot of evidence was obtained from many sources, including video evidence from Apache helicopters, security cameras, and even dead Hamas body cams. Although it's obvious that many crimes were comitted including sexual assaults it wasn't deemed widespread, and the babies being burnt were concluded to be unlikely. Many were also killed in the area between the Gaza fence and the places where Israelis were taken captive but no conclusion on how they were killed. Video footage from an Apache helicopter firing at vehicles and people heading back towards Gaza is Sharkey evidence too. Neither the pilot or machine gunner would be able to tell if the figures on the ground were Hamas terrorists or captives being machine gunned by the Apache helicopter. Thy was from a British analyst who saw the video evidence. " You really need to stop referencing things you see on social media. This particular clip you mentioned was debunked as false by a fact checking organisation from the UK. I could post tge report from them showing why it's false but it's long and you did take a couple of seconds researching this on X so I'd feel mean shooting you down in flames, unlike the Apache pilot who really didn't, until you try and double down on it... Mrs x | |||
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"The Israeli attitude is to terrorise the Palestinians into submission by brutality oppression, dehumanisation and force. Typical of a bullies mindset. " Israel removed themselves from Gaza in 2005, maybe they did what you say they did by post. Do Fed Ex do brutal oppression, dehumanisation and force by Next Day Delivery? Mrs x | |||
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"The interesting part of this story is Trump's middle east envoy, Steve Witkoff is already conducting negotiations. It would be an absolutely amazing outcome if this conflict is resolved when he gets into office. I can't see what else trump could do to Gaza and the Palestinians that Israel hasn't already done. Gaza and Palestinians are not the puppet masters. Sanctioning Iran right now will bite and they can't afford any unrest from their citizens. There is more than 1 way to skin a cat. Depends on how/if Iran has any control of Hamas. Support yes but control? Regime change hasn't usually worked with unexpected consequences so yet more conflict in in the middle east perhaps? Iran pull the strings of Hamas, they provoked October 7th attacks, funded it and trained Hamas. Iran's aim was to destabilise Israel who were in talks with Saudi ref, normalising relations. This was also being supported by the US. Can you supply sources that Iran "ordered" the 7 October attacks? I also see no logic in the 7 October attacks changing Saudi"s decision to normalise relations so would like to see more on that I’m not going to get drawn into a long if, but and maybe. Iran trained Hamas, arm them and fund them. I didn’t say Iran ordered the attack. Iran was upset on 2 fronts, oil sanctions, withdrawal from the nuclear program. Both of these events led to attacks on shipping and the Royal Marines boarding a ship. The US can bring them back in from the wilderness if they wish, and if they do it will cease the conflict. I can see a much better alternative. Bring who in from the wilderness? Is that the Gazans (the ones that haven't bwen starved or frozen to death) to go back to pre- 7 October and be routinely oppressed? Or do you mean Iran, who have been shafted over having agreements being broken that they honoured with the nuclear deal by America? Besides having a peaceful government been toppled in the 70s by the CIA because they wouldn't do American bidding which ended up with a regime in Iran as it is now? As for not getting into the if but and maybe - I don't blame you. Because after all the messing about in the middle east that's been done by the USA UK and others that's left million plus dead - I think I can bet you that the next round of meddling won't end well USA done quite a good job of providing peace and security in the Middle East, that's why they have allies there, just not with terrorists, Mrs x What allies exactly?Saudi, Egypt, Jordan, to name a few, Mrs x Ah yes the beacons of democracy and human and equal rights. Who? Hamas, Hezbollah, Fatah, PLO, Houthis, Iran, you mean those beacons? Mrs x If you can work it out, all you've mentioned are the results of American policy. You've missed out Isis from your list too btw, another product of America, The X factor, the randomness of variable unintended consequences when meddling What? The X factor? Did they do Britain's got Talent haha. You've missed out since the very dawn of Islam, they have been killing and slaughtering each other in numbers that are vastly larger than anything in Gaza. In Yemen and Syria, more than 10 times the victims, 10 times but you are OK with that because it's all Muslim deaths, committed by Muslims, so no Jews to blame. So 20 times the number of victims in these two conflicts and you are silent on the issue, because Jews weren't involved and you don't know who to blame. 500,000 deaths and you are silent. You happy to be starting again, Dan? Mrs x ----- X factor as in the unknown result, a phrase borrowed by TV. Christians have and still kill each other and slaughtered many in the past. Btw there are Christians dying in Gaza. Is what your saying justifying the killing babies kids? I'm not ok with Yemen and Syria and Somalia where conflict has been shipped up by American forces. You mentioned the Jews. Lots of Jews don't agree with the Zionist movement as I do. Oh I have a good idea who to blame and sorry to disappoint you. What I blame is the conceit of people in power and their ability to justify war as many do. It's found in all corners of the globe. It's brought about over a million Iraqi deaths besides your figures. And your calling me Dan again. Is that some colloquial insult from Ireland? Are you naturally rude or is it because you have nothing meaningful to reply with? The difference between Christian waging war and Muslim acts of terror is that Muslim terrorist, is that Muslim terrorist are committing g acts of terror in the name of their religion, using dogma to justify their evil aims. Christians havent waged a religious war for a very long time now and they fight on secular grounds, normally along national lines. They also do not think its ok to behead people, throw gays off roofs and burn babies alive in ovens. I think that makes a fundamental difference. To wage war in the defence of your country as opposed to committing murder, r@pe and burning imfants alive because you choose to corrupt a religious text to give you divine authority to commit such atrocities. As for the 'conceit of people in power and their ability to justify war as many do.' I don't think it's conceit after the horrific events of Oct 7th. In fact America went to war in WW1, after an attack on their civilians resulting in less than 2 hundred American deaths. The attack on Pearl Harbour result in more deaths than that of Oct 7th but o ly in the hundreds, not thousands. America joined a world war after this and this terrible act was committed by another nations whole fleet and Naval Air Arm. Hamas, the evil murdering g bastards, killed more than half as many using hang gliders. So what Hamas did on Oct 7th was more than justification for another nation to declare war on them, nothing conceited about such a decision. As for tge numbers killed, it's over a million in Yemen and Syria, 500,000 in each conflict. Mrs x In the aftermath of 7 October, a lot of evidence was obtained from many sources, including video evidence from Apache helicopters, security cameras, and even dead Hamas body cams. Although it's obvious that many crimes were comitted including sexual assaults it wasn't deemed widespread, and the babies being burnt were concluded to be unlikely. Many were also killed in the area between the Gaza fence and the places where Israelis were taken captive but no conclusion on how they were killed. Video footage from an Apache helicopter firing at vehicles and people heading back towards Gaza is Sharkey evidence too. Neither the pilot or machine gunner would be able to tell if the figures on the ground were Hamas terrorists or captives being machine gunned by the Apache helicopter. Thy was from a British analyst who saw the video evidence. You really need to stop referencing things you see on social media. This particular clip you mentioned was debunked as false by a fact checking organisation from the UK. I could post tge report from them showing why it's false but it's long and you did take a couple of seconds researching this on X so I'd feel mean shooting you down in flames, unlike the Apache pilot who really didn't, until you try and double down on it... Mrs x" Unlike yourself I'll look into that and if you're right I'll retract it. | |||
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"The interesting part of this story is Trump's middle east envoy, Steve Witkoff is already conducting negotiations. It would be an absolutely amazing outcome if this conflict is resolved when he gets into office. I can't see what else trump could do to Gaza and the Palestinians that Israel hasn't already done. Gaza and Palestinians are not the puppet masters. Sanctioning Iran right now will bite and they can't afford any unrest from their citizens. There is more than 1 way to skin a cat. Depends on how/if Iran has any control of Hamas. Support yes but control? Regime change hasn't usually worked with unexpected consequences so yet more conflict in in the middle east perhaps? Iran pull the strings of Hamas, they provoked October 7th attacks, funded it and trained Hamas. Iran's aim was to destabilise Israel who were in talks with Saudi ref, normalising relations. This was also being supported by the US. Can you supply sources that Iran "ordered" the 7 October attacks? I also see no logic in the 7 October attacks changing Saudi"s decision to normalise relations so would like to see more on that I’m not going to get drawn into a long if, but and maybe. Iran trained Hamas, arm them and fund them. I didn’t say Iran ordered the attack. Iran was upset on 2 fronts, oil sanctions, withdrawal from the nuclear program. Both of these events led to attacks on shipping and the Royal Marines boarding a ship. The US can bring them back in from the wilderness if they wish, and if they do it will cease the conflict. I can see a much better alternative. Bring who in from the wilderness? Is that the Gazans (the ones that haven't bwen starved or frozen to death) to go back to pre- 7 October and be routinely oppressed? Or do you mean Iran, who have been shafted over having agreements being broken that they honoured with the nuclear deal by America? Besides having a peaceful government been toppled in the 70s by the CIA because they wouldn't do American bidding which ended up with a regime in Iran as it is now? As for not getting into the if but and maybe - I don't blame you. Because after all the messing about in the middle east that's been done by the USA UK and others that's left million plus dead - I think I can bet you that the next round of meddling won't end well USA done quite a good job of providing peace and security in the Middle East, that's why they have allies there, just not with terrorists, Mrs x What allies exactly?Saudi, Egypt, Jordan, to name a few, Mrs x Ah yes the beacons of democracy and human and equal rights. Who? Hamas, Hezbollah, Fatah, PLO, Houthis, Iran, you mean those beacons? Mrs x If you can work it out, all you've mentioned are the results of American policy. You've missed out Isis from your list too btw, another product of America, The X factor, the randomness of variable unintended consequences when meddling What? The X factor? Did they do Britain's got Talent haha. You've missed out since the very dawn of Islam, they have been killing and slaughtering each other in numbers that are vastly larger than anything in Gaza. In Yemen and Syria, more than 10 times the victims, 10 times but you are OK with that because it's all Muslim deaths, committed by Muslims, so no Jews to blame. So 20 times the number of victims in these two conflicts and you are silent on the issue, because Jews weren't involved and you don't know who to blame. 500,000 deaths and you are silent. You happy to be starting again, Dan? Mrs x ----- X factor as in the unknown result, a phrase borrowed by TV. Christians have and still kill each other and slaughtered many in the past. Btw there are Christians dying in Gaza. Is what your saying justifying the killing babies kids? I'm not ok with Yemen and Syria and Somalia where conflict has been shipped up by American forces. You mentioned the Jews. Lots of Jews don't agree with the Zionist movement as I do. Oh I have a good idea who to blame and sorry to disappoint you. What I blame is the conceit of people in power and their ability to justify war as many do. It's found in all corners of the globe. It's brought about over a million Iraqi deaths besides your figures. And your calling me Dan again. Is that some colloquial insult from Ireland? Are you naturally rude or is it because you have nothing meaningful to reply with? The difference between Christian waging war and Muslim acts of terror is that Muslim terrorist, is that Muslim terrorist are committing g acts of terror in the name of their religion, using dogma to justify their evil aims. Christians havent waged a religious war for a very long time now and they fight on secular grounds, normally along national lines. They also do not think its ok to behead people, throw gays off roofs and burn babies alive in ovens. I think that makes a fundamental difference. To wage war in the defence of your country as opposed to committing murder, r@pe and burning imfants alive because you choose to corrupt a religious text to give you divine authority to commit such atrocities. As for the 'conceit of people in power and their ability to justify war as many do.' I don't think it's conceit after the horrific events of Oct 7th. In fact America went to war in WW1, after an attack on their civilians resulting in less than 2 hundred American deaths. The attack on Pearl Harbour result in more deaths than that of Oct 7th but o ly in the hundreds, not thousands. America joined a world war after this and this terrible act was committed by another nations whole fleet and Naval Air Arm. Hamas, the evil murdering g bastards, killed more than half as many using hang gliders. So what Hamas did on Oct 7th was more than justification for another nation to declare war on them, nothing conceited about such a decision. As for tge numbers killed, it's over a million in Yemen and Syria, 500,000 in each conflict. Mrs x In the aftermath of 7 October, a lot of evidence was obtained from many sources, including video evidence from Apache helicopters, security cameras, and even dead Hamas body cams. Although it's obvious that many crimes were comitted including sexual assaults it wasn't deemed widespread, and the babies being burnt were concluded to be unlikely. Many were also killed in the area between the Gaza fence and the places where Israelis were taken captive but no conclusion on how they were killed. Video footage from an Apache helicopter firing at vehicles and people heading back towards Gaza is Sharkey evidence too. Neither the pilot or machine gunner would be able to tell if the figures on the ground were Hamas terrorists or captives being machine gunned by the Apache helicopter. Thy was from a British analyst who saw the video evidence. You really need to stop referencing things you see on social media. This particular clip you mentioned was debunked as false by a fact checking organisation from the UK. I could post tge report from them showing why it's false but it's long and you did take a couple of seconds researching this on X so I'd feel mean shooting you down in flames, unlike the Apache pilot who really didn't, until you try and double down on it... Mrs x Unlike yourself I'll look into that and if you're right I'll retract it." Sorry did warn you it was long. This is the report from the Fact Checking organisation I spoke of. Titled: Social Media Posts Misrepresent Video of IDF Aircraft Attack 'Quick Take. At least 260 people were killed by Hamas during the militant group’s surprise attacks at an outdoor music _estival in Israel on Oct. 7. A video clip on social media falsely claims to show Israel Defense Forces helicopters firing on _estival-goers that day. The clip is from a video of IDF aircraft shooting at Hamas militants a day later at sites in the Gaza Strip. Full Story During the Oct. 7 surprise attacks on Israel by the Palestinian militant group Hamas, at least 260 people were killed at an outdoor concert, the Tribe of Nova music _estival near Kibbutz Reim, as we’ve written. About 240 Israelis and other nationals were taken hostage during the attacks at the _estival and other locations in southern Israel. Since war broke out between Israel and Gaza, about 1,200 Israelis and more than 13,000 Palestinians have been killed as of Nov. 20, the United Nations said, citing Israeli official sources and the Gaza Ministry of Health, respectively. The majority of Israeli casualties occurred during Hamas’ initial attacks on Oct. 7. News reports about the attacks have included video of the aftermath of the violence at the _estival and interviews with survivors. As rockets fell on the _estival crowd, the attackers converged on the site in trucks and on motorcycles, firing AK-47 assault rifles and rocket-propelled grenades at the fleeing revelers, according to reporting by the Associated Press based on survivors’ accounts. But posts on social media, including a Nov. 9 post from conspiracy theorist Stew Peters, falsely claim that a video shows many of the _estival-goers were killed by Israeli helicopter fire, not the Hamas attackers. “VIDEO PROVES and ISRAEL ADMITS it slaughtered its own people on Oct. 7th,” Peters falsely claims in the post on X, the platform formerly called Twitter. “Footage from Israeli helicopter shows the IDF killing many people at October 7 concert in Israel.” Peters, a conservative radio host, also has spread misinformation about COVID-19 and other topics, as we’ve previously written. The 14-second video clip in Peters’ post appears to be green-tinted, infrared aerial footage of explosions on the ground and people running from the assault. The text on the post claims, “IDF helicopters fired on civilians fleeing the PsyTrance Music Festival.” In addition to the video, the post includes a link to an Oct. 30 article in the Middle East Monitor, a website that says it supports the “Palestinian cause.” That article includes a quote that reads: “Israeli commanders made ‘difficult decisions’ including ‘shelling houses on their occupants in order to eliminate the terrorists along with the hostages.'” The quote is attributed to a security coordinator at Kibbutz Be’eri, one of the settlements attacked by Hamas on Oct. 7. But the aerial footage shown in the post comes from a longer compilation video shared by the IDF on Oct. 9 on X. The video shows aerial bombings at several sites in the Gaza Strip on Oct. 8 — the day after the Hamas’ attack on Oct. 7. The text on the IDF post, translated from Hebrew, reads: “Forces @idfonline Throughout the last day, Air Force planes have been carrying out extensive attacks along the length and breadth of the Gaza Strip, wreaking havoc on Hamas terrorists. In just the last three hours, about 130 targets were attacked using dozens of planes. The focus of the attack: Beit Hanon, Sajaya, Al Furkan and Rimal.” Those locations are in the northern Gaza Strip; two are neighborhoods in Gaza City. In response to the social media posts, the IDF told Newsweek in a story published Nov. 13: “On October 9, a video was published on the IDF’s official Twitter account describing IDF attacks in the Gaza Strip. The purpose of the strikes was to stop the murderous terrorists from penetrating into Israel to commit brutal and inhumane crimes. The viral post of an airstrike on the Nova _estival is fake.” The French television network France 24 debunked the claims about the video shared on social media in a Nov. 14 broadcast. An analysis cited in that report found that the infrared footage of the helicopter assault was taken at a location 10 kilometers, or six miles, away from the site of the music _estival. News Reports of Possible Friendly Fire. News reports have noted the possibility that Israeli forces fired on Israelis during their response to the Hamas attacks on Oct. 7. In its Nov. 14 report, France 24 cited media reports that Israeli helicopter pilots had difficulty distinguishing militants from civilians on Oct. 7. The Israeli newspaper Haaretz reported on Nov. 18 that “according to a police source, an investigation into [the attack on the _estival] also revealed that an IDF helicopter that arrived on the scene from the Ramat David base fired at the terrorists and apparently also hit some of the revelers who were there.” (The Haaretz article was translated from Hebrew by Google.) Responding to that report, the Israeli police issued a statement saying its investigation did not focus on IDF operations at the concert site and did not provide “any indication about the harm of civilians due to aerial activity there,” the Times of Israel reported on Nov. 19. We emailed the media offices of the Israel Defense Forces for an explanation of the video footage shared on social media and a response to the Haaretz report that a helicopter fired at Israelis. A spokesperson for the IDF North American media desk told us in a Nov. 23 email, “The Israel Police clarifies that the investigation carried out by the Southern District focused on the heroism of the police officers who acted to stop the massacre committed by Hamas. “Contrary to the misleading publication, the police investigation does not refer to the activity of the IDF forces, and therefore no indication was given of any harm to civilians caused by any aerial activity at the site. “The preliminary findings of the ongoing national inquiry, spearheaded by law enforcement and communicated to the international media, cast a spotlight on the profound and reprehensible acts committed by Hamas terrorists during the Nova music _estival. Any effort to downplay the severity of these atrocities, as depicted in the misleading Haaretz newspaper publication, deserves unequivocal rejection,” the IDF spokesperson said. We cannot say whether there were any cases of friendly fire by Israeli forces responding to the Hamas attacks on Oct. 7. But the social media posts that claim the IDF video proves “many people” were killed by the IDF at the music _estival are false.' Last sentence says it all, [BOOM, sound of mic hitting the floor] Mrs x | |||
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"The interesting part of this story is Trump's middle east envoy, Steve Witkoff is already conducting negotiations. It would be an absolutely amazing outcome if this conflict is resolved when he gets into office. I can't see what else trump could do to Gaza and the Palestinians that Israel hasn't already done. Gaza and Palestinians are not the puppet masters. Sanctioning Iran right now will bite and they can't afford any unrest from their citizens. There is more than 1 way to skin a cat. Depends on how/if Iran has any control of Hamas. Support yes but control? Regime change hasn't usually worked with unexpected consequences so yet more conflict in in the middle east perhaps? Iran pull the strings of Hamas, they provoked October 7th attacks, funded it and trained Hamas. Iran's aim was to destabilise Israel who were in talks with Saudi ref, normalising relations. This was also being supported by the US. Can you supply sources that Iran "ordered" the 7 October attacks? I also see no logic in the 7 October attacks changing Saudi"s decision to normalise relations so would like to see more on that I’m not going to get drawn into a long if, but and maybe. Iran trained Hamas, arm them and fund them. I didn’t say Iran ordered the attack. Iran was upset on 2 fronts, oil sanctions, withdrawal from the nuclear program. Both of these events led to attacks on shipping and the Royal Marines boarding a ship. The US can bring them back in from the wilderness if they wish, and if they do it will cease the conflict. I can see a much better alternative. Bring who in from the wilderness? Is that the Gazans (the ones that haven't bwen starved or frozen to death) to go back to pre- 7 October and be routinely oppressed? Or do you mean Iran, who have been shafted over having agreements being broken that they honoured with the nuclear deal by America? Besides having a peaceful government been toppled in the 70s by the CIA because they wouldn't do American bidding which ended up with a regime in Iran as it is now? As for not getting into the if but and maybe - I don't blame you. Because after all the messing about in the middle east that's been done by the USA UK and others that's left million plus dead - I think I can bet you that the next round of meddling won't end well USA done quite a good job of providing peace and security in the Middle East, that's why they have allies there, just not with terrorists, Mrs x What allies exactly?Saudi, Egypt, Jordan, to name a few, Mrs x Ah yes the beacons of democracy and human and equal rights. Who? Hamas, Hezbollah, Fatah, PLO, Houthis, Iran, you mean those beacons? Mrs x If you can work it out, all you've mentioned are the results of American policy. You've missed out Isis from your list too btw, another product of America, The X factor, the randomness of variable unintended consequences when meddling What? The X factor? Did they do Britain's got Talent haha. You've missed out since the very dawn of Islam, they have been killing and slaughtering each other in numbers that are vastly larger than anything in Gaza. In Yemen and Syria, more than 10 times the victims, 10 times but you are OK with that because it's all Muslim deaths, committed by Muslims, so no Jews to blame. So 20 times the number of victims in these two conflicts and you are silent on the issue, because Jews weren't involved and you don't know who to blame. 500,000 deaths and you are silent. You happy to be starting again, Dan? Mrs x ----- X factor as in the unknown result, a phrase borrowed by TV. Christians have and still kill each other and slaughtered many in the past. Btw there are Christians dying in Gaza. Is what your saying justifying the killing babies kids? I'm not ok with Yemen and Syria and Somalia where conflict has been shipped up by American forces. You mentioned the Jews. Lots of Jews don't agree with the Zionist movement as I do. Oh I have a good idea who to blame and sorry to disappoint you. What I blame is the conceit of people in power and their ability to justify war as many do. It's found in all corners of the globe. It's brought about over a million Iraqi deaths besides your figures. And your calling me Dan again. Is that some colloquial insult from Ireland? Are you naturally rude or is it because you have nothing meaningful to reply with? The difference between Christian waging war and Muslim acts of terror is that Muslim terrorist, is that Muslim terrorist are committing g acts of terror in the name of their religion, using dogma to justify their evil aims. Christians havent waged a religious war for a very long time now and they fight on secular grounds, normally along national lines. They also do not think its ok to behead people, throw gays off roofs and burn babies alive in ovens. I think that makes a fundamental difference. To wage war in the defence of your country as opposed to committing murder, r@pe and burning imfants alive because you choose to corrupt a religious text to give you divine authority to commit such atrocities. As for the 'conceit of people in power and their ability to justify war as many do.' I don't think it's conceit after the horrific events of Oct 7th. In fact America went to war in WW1, after an attack on their civilians resulting in less than 2 hundred American deaths. The attack on Pearl Harbour result in more deaths than that of Oct 7th but o ly in the hundreds, not thousands. America joined a world war after this and this terrible act was committed by another nations whole fleet and Naval Air Arm. Hamas, the evil murdering g bastards, killed more than half as many using hang gliders. So what Hamas did on Oct 7th was more than justification for another nation to declare war on them, nothing conceited about such a decision. As for tge numbers killed, it's over a million in Yemen and Syria, 500,000 in each conflict. Mrs x In the aftermath of 7 October, a lot of evidence was obtained from many sources, including video evidence from Apache helicopters, security cameras, and even dead Hamas body cams. Although it's obvious that many crimes were comitted including sexual assaults it wasn't deemed widespread, and the babies being burnt were concluded to be unlikely. Many were also killed in the area between the Gaza fence and the places where Israelis were taken captive but no conclusion on how they were killed. Video footage from an Apache helicopter firing at vehicles and people heading back towards Gaza is Sharkey evidence too. Neither the pilot or machine gunner would be able to tell if the figures on the ground were Hamas terrorists or captives being machine gunned by the Apache helicopter. Thy was from a British analyst who saw the video evidence. You really need to stop referencing things you see on social media. This particular clip you mentioned was debunked as false by a fact checking organisation from the UK. I could post tge report from them showing why it's false but it's long and you did take a couple of seconds researching this on X so I'd feel mean shooting you down in flames, unlike the Apache pilot who really didn't, until you try and double down on it... Mrs x Unlike yourself I'll look into that and if you're right I'll retract it." Just re-read this haha, I DID look into it... you can't make this up... 🤣🤣🤣 Mrs x | |||
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"Palastinians are mostly a mix of Muslim, Christian and Druze Arabs" How about Palestinian Jews? | |||
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"Palastinians are mostly a mix of Muslim, Christian and Druze Arabs How about Palestinian Jews?" There are no Palestinian Jews in Gaza. I doubt there are any in the IDF. | |||
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"Palastinians are mostly a mix of Muslim, Christian and Druze Arabs How about Palestinian Jews? There are no Palestinian Jews in Gaza. I doubt there are any in the IDF." Then how you define a Palestinian Jew? | |||
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"Palastinians are mostly a mix of Muslim, Christian and Druze Arabs. " If you're talking about Gaza... Are there actually any Druze there? | |||
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"Palastinians are mostly a mix of Muslim, Christian and Druze Arabs. I’ll dig out the relevant info on the Duty of care for you." How am I conflating them then. I've never discussed ethnicity. Hamas are made up of Islamic terrorists. How many outliers there may be I don't know and I'm not going to talk in percentages. I've said this lots, I'm not talking about killing people, of any ethnicity but I am talking about the total eradication of terrorism, in this case Islamic because Hamas is an Islamic group... in the main, Mrs x | |||
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"To me Palestinian Jews would not include Ashkenazi Jews... ...those with the best claim to the title might be Shepardi or Mizrahim Jews who are generally speaking more anti Zionist. " These make up the majority of the Jews in Israel. What's your source that they are generally more anti Zionist? | |||
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"Palastinians are mostly a mix of Muslim, Christian and Druze Arabs How about Palestinian Jews? There are no Palestinian Jews in Gaza. I doubt there are any in the IDF." There are roughly 3000 Palestinians from Israel serving in the IDF, Mrs x | |||
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" If they’re a mix of Muslims, Christian’s (mostly Greek Orthodox) and Druze, they are not Islamist. They committed war crimes on Oct 7th. If that makes them terrorists then please apply the same logic to Israel when they are committing war crimes." Sorry, are you suggesting that either Hamas, or the perpetrators of October 7th, included Christians or Druze? | |||
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"The Israeli attitude is to terrorise the Palestinians into submission by brutality oppression, dehumanisation and force. Typical of a bullies mindset. Israel removed themselves from Gaza in 2005, maybe they did what you say they did by post. Do Fed Ex do brutal oppression, dehumanisation and force by Next Day Delivery? Mrs x" Can you seriously explain why your so pro Israel? After all that the IDF have done - The massacres the starvation, the collective punishments , the killing of aid workers, the endless defying of UN resolutions, the dripping of 2000 pound bombs on refugee camps - the genocidal rhetoric from netenyahu and his cabinet - you always defend Israel's actions. Why is that? | |||
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" If they’re a mix of Muslims, Christian’s (mostly Greek Orthodox) and Druze, they are not Islamist. They committed war crimes on Oct 7th. If that makes them terrorists then please apply the same logic to Israel when they are committing war crimes. Sorry, are you suggesting that either Hamas, or the perpetrators of October 7th, included Christians or Druze?" That’s exactly what I’m suggesting. | |||
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"Mrs x If they have the legal right to defend against an illegal occupation, they are not terrorists. If they’re a mix of Muslims, Christian’s (mostly Greek Orthodox) and Druze, they are not Islamist. They committed war crimes on Oct 7th. If that makes them terrorists then please apply the same logic to Israel when they are committing war crimes." So prior to Oct 7th, how do you account for the thousands of missiles that Hamas fired into Israel, that's terrorism. That's not an issue of occupation. The large numbers of suicide bombers trying to enter Israel to kill Jews, indiscriminately is terrorism. Throwing political opposition of a roof to execute them is terrorism. Hamas is a terrorist group, recognise worldwide, including the UN. So I've a hunch they are terrorists. As for them not being Islamist, I think you need to have a word with them because they definitely consider themselves to be. "The Islamic Resistance Movement, abbreviated Hamas (an Arabic acronym) is a Palestinian nationalist Sunni Islamist political organisation with a military wing called the Izz al-Din al-Qassam Brigades. It has governed the Israeli-occupied Gaza Strip since 2007". The clue is in the full title of this group... The Islamic Resistance Movement, but I may be wrong, Mrs x | |||
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"Palastinians are mostly a mix of Muslim, Christian and Druze Arabs How about Palestinian Jews? There are no Palestinian Jews in Gaza. I doubt there are any in the IDF.There are roughly 3000 Palestinians from Israel serving in the IDF, Mrs x" I’d be surprised if they are not all Bedouin. They can and do serve. Did you check that? | |||
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"The Israeli attitude is to terrorise the Palestinians into submission by brutality oppression, dehumanisation and force. Typical of a bullies mindset. Israel removed themselves from Gaza in 2005, maybe they did what you say they did by post. Do Fed Ex do brutal oppression, dehumanisation and force by Next Day Delivery? Mrs x Can you seriously explain why your so pro Israel? After all that the IDF have done - The massacres the starvation, the collective punishments , the killing of aid workers, the endless defying of UN resolutions, the dripping of 2000 pound bombs on refugee camps - the genocidal rhetoric from netenyahu and his cabinet - you always defend Israel's actions. Why is that?" Maybe you should flip it and ask yourself why you are so pro Hamas, an Islamic Terrorist group, that's beheaded, executed gays by throwing them off buildings, sent suicide bombers into Israel and burnt a baby alive in an oven. These tuckers even hide behind woman and children they are supposed to be protecting. Why do you protect them so much? Mrs x | |||
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" If they’re a mix of Muslims, Christian’s (mostly Greek Orthodox) and Druze, they are not Islamist. They committed war crimes on Oct 7th. If that makes them terrorists then please apply the same logic to Israel when they are committing war crimes. Sorry, are you suggesting that either Hamas, or the perpetrators of October 7th, included Christians or Druze? That’s exactly what I’m suggesting." Do you have any evidence to back that up? That's a very niche position. Being that Druze are not native to Gaza and that neither Druze not Christians have any meaningful connection with Hamas (or actions against the state of Israel or Jews), that's quite a theory. It's a little difficult to take seriously. | |||
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"Palastinians are mostly a mix of Muslim, Christian and Druze Arabs How about Palestinian Jews? There are no Palestinian Jews in Gaza. I doubt there are any in the IDF.There are roughly 3000 Palestinians from Israel serving in the IDF, Mrs x I’d be surprised if they are not all Bedouin. They can and do serve. Did you check that?" Of course it didn't, I already knew 1500 Bedouin serve. As do hundreds of Muslim Palestinians, as well as the 3000 Palestinian citizens I've already mentioned. Mrs x | |||
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"Palastinians are mostly a mix of Muslim, Christian and Druze Arabs How about Palestinian Jews? There are no Palestinian Jews in Gaza. I doubt there are any in the IDF.There are roughly 3000 Palestinians from Israel serving in the IDF, Mrs x I’d be surprised if they are not all Bedouin. They can and do serve. Did you check that?" They are not mostly Bedouin. Druze are overrepresented in the IDF, there are also Muslim and Christian Arabs (Palestinians) who serve. Amir Tsarfati served as a Palestinian Christian - he runs a news channel that's an excellent source of information (early on, mostly accurate). https://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-37895021 | |||
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"Palastinians are mostly a mix of Muslim, Christian and Druze Arabs How about Palestinian Jews? There are no Palestinian Jews in Gaza. I doubt there are any in the IDF.There are roughly 3000 Palestinians from Israel serving in the IDF, Mrs x I’d be surprised if they are not all Bedouin. They can and do serve. Did you check that?" What do you think about Hamas being an Islamist terrorist group now then, any thoughts? Mrs x | |||
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" If they’re a mix of Muslims, Christian’s (mostly Greek Orthodox) and Druze, they are not Islamist. They committed war crimes on Oct 7th. If that makes them terrorists then please apply the same logic to Israel when they are committing war crimes. Sorry, are you suggesting that either Hamas, or the perpetrators of October 7th, included Christians or Druze? That’s exactly what I’m suggesting. Do you have any evidence to back that up? That's a very niche position. Being that Druze are not native to Gaza and that neither Druze not Christians have any meaningful connection with Hamas (or actions against the state of Israel or Jews), that's quite a theory. It's a little difficult to take seriously." As is the theory that Hamas are not Islamist, very strange, Mrs x | |||
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"To me Palestinian Jews would not include Ashkenazi Jews... ...those with the best claim to the title might be Shepardi or Mizrahim Jews who are generally speaking more anti Zionist. These make up the majority of the Jews in Israel. What's your source that they are generally more anti Zionist? " Ashkenazi (German Jews)make up the majority of Israelis by a long margin I was fascinated by the similarities to the Irish troubles, something I grew up in fear of, so I went to see for myself. Have spent many months there over the years. Other places in the Near and Middle East too. Not all Jews believe in Israel. Many believe that the Torah forbids the return to that land. I’ve been paying close attention to the history and politics for 30 years now. | |||
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"What do you think about Hamas being an Islamist terrorist group now then, any thoughts? Mrs x" Given that the Hamas charter contains the following, it's definitely not Christians for Peace: 'Israel will exist and will continue to exist until Islam will obliterate it, just as it obliterated others before it.' 'The land of Palestine is an Islamic Waqf [Holy Possession] consecrated for future Moslem generations until Judgment Day. No one can renounce it or any part, or abandon it or any part of it.' | |||
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" Ashkenazi (German Jews)make up the majority of Israelis by a long margin " Pew research, CIA handbook, Wikipedia and numerous censuses would disagree there. Again, what's your source for that broad (and surprising) statement? | |||
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"To me Palestinian Jews would not include Ashkenazi Jews... ...those with the best claim to the title might be Shepardi or Mizrahim Jews who are generally speaking more anti Zionist. These make up the majority of the Jews in Israel. What's your source that they are generally more anti Zionist? Ashkenazi (German Jews)make up the majority of Israelis by a long margin I was fascinated by the similarities to the Irish troubles, something I grew up in fear of, so I went to see for myself. Have spent many months there over the years. Other places in the Near and Middle East too. Not all Jews believe in Israel. Many believe that the Torah forbids the return to that land. I’ve been paying close attention to the history and politics for 30 years now." No matter what they believe in, millions of Israelis believe that it should and indeedcit does exist. In your 30 years of study you appear to have missed the fundamental make up of Hamas and it's religious ideological leanings, so if its not Islamic as you assert what are you basing that on, Mrs x | |||
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"To me Palestinian Jews would not include Ashkenazi Jews... ...those with the best claim to the title might be Shepardi or Mizrahim Jews who are generally speaking more anti Zionist. These make up the majority of the Jews in Israel. What's your source that they are generally more anti Zionist? Ashkenazi (German Jews)make up the majority of Israelis by a long margin I was fascinated by the similarities to the Irish troubles, something I grew up in fear of, so I went to see for myself. Have spent many months there over the years. Other places in the Near and Middle East too. Not all Jews believe in Israel. Many believe that the Torah forbids the return to that land. I’ve been paying close attention to the history and politics for 30 years now." I'm not convinced in your personal accounts as evidence of fact, but I'm more than happy to be, if you are happy to provide substance other than anecdotal.  | |||
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"To me Palestinian Jews would not include Ashkenazi Jews... ...those with the best claim to the title might be Shepardi or Mizrahim Jews who are generally speaking more anti Zionist. These make up the majority of the Jews in Israel. What's your source that they are generally more anti Zionist? Ashkenazi (German Jews)make up the majority of Israelis by a long margin I was fascinated by the similarities to the Irish troubles, something I grew up in fear of, so I went to see for myself. Have spent many months there over the years. Other places in the Near and Middle East too. Not all Jews believe in Israel. Many believe that the Torah forbids the return to that land. I’ve been paying close attention to the history and politics for 30 years now.No matter what they believe in, millions of Israelis believe that it should and indeedcit does exist. In your 30 years of study you appear to have missed the fundamental make up of Hamas and it's religious ideological leanings, so if its not Islamic as you assert what are you basing that on, Mrs x" I've already covered this, other people have already covered this, the other poster has covered this. If you can't understand this then you never will | |||
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"To me Palestinian Jews would not include Ashkenazi Jews... ...those with the best claim to the title might be Shepardi or Mizrahim Jews who are generally speaking more anti Zionist. These make up the majority of the Jews in Israel. What's your source that they are generally more anti Zionist? Ashkenazi (German Jews)make up the majority of Israelis by a long margin I was fascinated by the similarities to the Irish troubles, something I grew up in fear of, so I went to see for myself. Have spent many months there over the years. Other places in the Near and Middle East too. Not all Jews believe in Israel. Many believe that the Torah forbids the return to that land. I’ve been paying close attention to the history and politics for 30 years now.No matter what they believe in, millions of Israelis believe that it should and indeedcit does exist. In your 30 years of study you appear to have missed the fundamental make up of Hamas and it's religious ideological leanings, so if its not Islamic as you assert what are you basing that on, Mrs x I've already covered this, other people have already covered this, the other poster has covered this. If you can't understand this then you never will " So an organisation which calls itself Islamic, is not actually Islamic because you say so?.... One of the strangest things you have ever said. No, fuck it, you're right they are Catholic, no Buddist.... Presbyterian??? Mrs x | |||
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"To me Palestinian Jews would not include Ashkenazi Jews... ...those with the best claim to the title might be Shepardi or Mizrahim Jews who are generally speaking more anti Zionist. These make up the majority of the Jews in Israel. What's your source that they are generally more anti Zionist? Ashkenazi (German Jews)make up the majority of Israelis by a long margin I was fascinated by the similarities to the Irish troubles, something I grew up in fear of, so I went to see for myself. Have spent many months there over the years. Other places in the Near and Middle East too. Not all Jews believe in Israel. Many believe that the Torah forbids the return to that land. I’ve been paying close attention to the history and politics for 30 years now.No matter what they believe in, millions of Israelis believe that it should and indeedcit does exist. In your 30 years of study you appear to have missed the fundamental make up of Hamas and it's religious ideological leanings, so if its not Islamic as you assert what are you basing that on, Mrs x I've already covered this, other people have already covered this, the other poster has covered this. If you can't understand this then you never will So an organisation which calls itself Islamic, is not actually Islamic because you say so?.... One of the strangest things you have ever said. No, fuck it, you're right they are Catholic, no Buddist.... Presbyterian??? Mrs x" Troll | |||
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" Troll " What do you call someone who responds with the word "Troll" to a thread between other people? | |||
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" Troll What do you call someone who responds with the word "Troll" to a thread between other people?" Depends on the individual | |||
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