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"He wants to have a discussion about what he says we're all talking about in private. I think he misunderstands the public viewpoint on how women should have control over their own bodies and it not being something that is dictated to by men or religion, which are typically male controlled institutions. We also like women and medical services, to not be under threat of pressure from campaign ers who believe that they know what's best for them. " Which campaigners are these? Mrs x | |||
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"When Nigel Farage and other lunatics like him can give birth… Then they can have a say but until that time. It’s a woman’s body so it’s her choice not a man’s decision. " What a banal and stupid statement Her body her choice I don't believe many actually believe in the totality in of that statement I don't think anyone would agree that a woman has a choice to abort at 35, or even 30 weeks The argument is at what point is it "too late" to abort Believing that there is a point where it is to late does not a handmaid's tale make | |||
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"I see, it depends which way you spin it, right? “Is 24 weeks right for abortion given that we now save babies at 22?” he said. I think that is a fair point, especially as he is only suggesting a debate…" I believe that 22-24 week's is very touch and go and is in no way a sure thing Under 22 week's is just not really viable | |||
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"control womens bodies like the bropublican party are planning in the US .... he must've been binge watching A Handmaids Tale " But no, he did not say this. Stop being so fucking melodramatic | |||
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"It’s funny how it’s men here that are expressing an opinion on viability and what constitutes as too late…. One would almost think the ones making these statements could actually conceive and give birth Whilst you may a have a view this really is something that should be decided on by women. Definitely not have the likes Nigel Farage stirring up this. Ultimately it’s a woman’s body so it should be their choice without male control or coercion. Unless of course you want to exercise reproductive control. " Discounting people from intellectual exercise and discussion due to anatomy or gender is brain-dead Anyone can have an opinion about anything Stop being so exclusionary because you dislike debate It should be beneath you | |||
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"It’s funny how it’s men here that are expressing an opinion on viability and what constitutes as too late…. One would almost think the ones making these statements could actually conceive and give birth Whilst you may a have a view this really is something that should be decided on by women. Definitely not have the likes Nigel Farage stirring up this. Ultimately it’s a woman’s body so it should be their choice without male control or coercion. Unless of course you want to exercise reproductive control. Discounting people from intellectual exercise and discussion due to anatomy or gender is brain-dead Anyone can have an opinion about anything Stop being so exclusionary because you dislike debate It should be beneath you" You are perfectly entitled to an opinion whilst it is interesting on the whole it irrelevant as it doesn’t impact you. So yes it is exclusionary and I do like the debate but you haven’t realised that your gender limits imposing your views on a gender that is not yours. Unless you feel have a patriarchal right to exercise control. Not all debates are equal in accepting views from all. I would have thought that you would have understood that at the very least. | |||
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"It’s funny how it’s men here that are expressing an opinion on viability and what constitutes as too late…. One would almost think the ones making these statements could actually conceive and give birth Whilst you may a have a view this really is something that should be decided on by women. Definitely not have the likes Nigel Farage stirring up this. Ultimately it’s a woman’s body so it should be their choice without male control or coercion. Unless of course you want to exercise reproductive control. " That’s a crock of shite if ever I heard. No men to make decisions on matters about women No women to make decisions on matters about men. We live in a Society and Society collectively discusses and debates and makes decisions based on the outcome of those discussions and debates. | |||
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"It’s funny how it’s men here that are expressing an opinion on viability and what constitutes as too late…. One would almost think the ones making these statements could actually conceive and give birth Whilst you may a have a view this really is something that should be decided on by women. Definitely not have the likes Nigel Farage stirring up this. Ultimately it’s a woman’s body so it should be their choice without male control or coercion. Unless of course you want to exercise reproductive control. That’s a crock of shite if ever I heard. No men to make decisions on matters about women No women to make decisions on matters about men. We live in a Society and Society collectively discusses and debates and makes decisions based on the outcome of those discussions and debates. " I mean, in America this blatantly isn't true. Plenty of states have anti abortion laws. Which were put in place, largely by men. Some people in the UK are opposed to the same thing happening here. | |||
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"It’s funny how it’s men here that are expressing an opinion on viability and what constitutes as too late…. One would almost think the ones making these statements could actually conceive and give birth Whilst you may a have a view this really is something that should be decided on by women. Definitely not have the likes Nigel Farage stirring up this. Ultimately it’s a woman’s body so it should be their choice without male control or coercion. Unless of course you want to exercise reproductive control. That’s a crock of shite if ever I heard. No men to make decisions on matters about women No women to make decisions on matters about men. We live in a Society and Society collectively discusses and debates and makes decisions based on the outcome of those discussions and debates. I mean, in America this blatantly isn't true. Plenty of states have anti abortion laws. Which were put in place, largely by men. Some people in the UK are opposed to the same thing happening here." Where have you heard or read that legislative change is going to take place in the UK without the usual processes of discussion and debate involving all parties, female and male, taking place. | |||
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"I do understand a woman wanting an abortion for all kinds of reasons. But when is the conversation going to be about the foetus, at what point since conception does this become less of the flushing of a few unwanted cells, and the dragging out and killing of a perfectly healthy baby? I have five grown up kids, but don’t profess to be an expert in these matters. I’ve witnessed childbirth, and is a truly magical yet natural thing. Twenty four weeks is like six months? Surely that is way too late???" My twin boys were born at 24+0,they are now almost 17yo. | |||
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"It’s funny how it’s men here that are expressing an opinion on viability and what constitutes as too late…. One would almost think the ones making these statements could actually conceive and give birth Whilst you may a have a view this really is something that should be decided on by women. Definitely not have the likes Nigel Farage stirring up this. Ultimately it’s a woman’s body so it should be their choice without male control or coercion. Unless of course you want to exercise reproductive control. That’s a crock of shite if ever I heard. No men to make decisions on matters about women No women to make decisions on matters about men. We live in a Society and Society collectively discusses and debates and makes decisions based on the outcome of those discussions and debates. I mean, in America this blatantly isn't true. Plenty of states have anti abortion laws. Which were put in place, largely by men. Some people in the UK are opposed to the same thing happening here. Where have you heard or read that legislative change is going to take place in the UK without the usual processes of discussion and debate involving all parties, female and male, taking place. " I haven't heard that. Just responding with the OP in mind. | |||
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"It’s funny how it’s men here that are expressing an opinion on viability and what constitutes as too late…. One would almost think the ones making these statements could actually conceive and give birth Whilst you may a have a view this really is something that should be decided on by women. Definitely not have the likes Nigel Farage stirring up this. Ultimately it’s a woman’s body so it should be their choice without male control or coercion. Unless of course you want to exercise reproductive control. Discounting people from intellectual exercise and discussion due to anatomy or gender is brain-dead Anyone can have an opinion about anything Stop being so exclusionary because you dislike debate It should be beneath you You are perfectly entitled to an opinion whilst it is interesting on the whole it irrelevant as it doesn’t impact you. So yes it is exclusionary and I do like the debate but you haven’t realised that your gender limits imposing your views on a gender that is not yours. Unless you feel have a patriarchal right to exercise control. Not all debates are equal in accepting views from all. I would have thought that you would have understood that at the very least." You have reduced a complex issue to a simplistic matter of personal choice. While women’s autonomy should be respected in terms of their choices as women, this debate also involves medical assessments, legal frameworks, and broader ethical and society led considerations. Dismissing opinions based on gender shuts down any meaningful dialogue. Respect for women’s choices, medical expertise, and legal clarity all need to coexist. | |||
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"We live in a Society and Society collectively discusses and debates and makes decisions based on the outcome of those discussions and debates." "I mean, in America this blatantly isn't true. Plenty of states have anti abortion laws. Which were put in place, largely by men." None of those sentences is accurate. Most of the states passed laws to allow abortion after Roe fell, most of the rest of them have subsequently had votes and then allowed abortion, and the rest have had votes which decided against it. None of the states prevented women from voting. | |||
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"We live in a Society and Society collectively discusses and debates and makes decisions based on the outcome of those discussions and debates. I mean, in America this blatantly isn't true. Plenty of states have anti abortion laws. Which were put in place, largely by men. None of those sentences is accurate. Most of the states passed laws to allow abortion after Roe fell, most of the rest of them have subsequently had votes and then allowed abortion, and the rest have had votes which decided against it. None of the states prevented women from voting." Mmmhmmm. And men voted on the supreme court. Men voted on these laws at state level. | |||
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"Plenty of states have anti abortion laws. Which were put in place, largely by men." "None of those sentences is accurate. Most of the states passed laws to allow abortion after Roe fell, most of the rest of them have subsequently had votes and then allowed abortion, and the rest have had votes which decided against it. None of the states prevented women from voting." "Mmmhmmm. And men voted on the supreme court. Men voted on these laws at state level." All of the new state laws recently put in place have ratified by a vote of the electorate. The US often seems backward to us, but even they allow women to vote. | |||
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"Plenty of states have anti abortion laws. Which were put in place, largely by men. None of those sentences is accurate. Most of the states passed laws to allow abortion after Roe fell, most of the rest of them have subsequently had votes and then allowed abortion, and the rest have had votes which decided against it. None of the states prevented women from voting. Mmmhmmm. And men voted on the supreme court. Men voted on these laws at state level. All of the new state laws recently put in place have ratified by a vote of the electorate. The US often seems backward to us, but even they allow women to vote." No one is disputing this. | |||
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"All of the new state laws recently put in place have ratified by a vote of the electorate. The US often seems backward to us, but even they allow women to vote." "No one is disputing this. " Then why do you keep saying that these laws were put in place by men? Are you suggesting that men shouldn't have been allowed to take part in the vote? | |||
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"It’s funny how it’s men here that are expressing an opinion on viability and what constitutes as too late…. One would almost think the ones making these statements could actually conceive and give birth Whilst you may a have a view this really is something that should be decided on by women. Definitely not have the likes Nigel Farage stirring up this. Ultimately it’s a woman’s body so it should be their choice without male control or coercion. Unless of course you want to exercise reproductive control. Discounting people from intellectual exercise and discussion due to anatomy or gender is brain-dead Anyone can have an opinion about anything Stop being so exclusionary because you dislike debate It should be beneath you You are perfectly entitled to an opinion whilst it is interesting on the whole it irrelevant as it doesn’t impact you. So yes it is exclusionary and I do like the debate but you haven’t realised that your gender limits imposing your views on a gender that is not yours. Unless you feel have a patriarchal right to exercise control. Not all debates are equal in accepting views from all. I would have thought that you would have understood that at the very least." What an absolute load of bollocks | |||
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"All of the new state laws recently put in place have ratified by a vote of the electorate. The US often seems backward to us, but even they allow women to vote. No one is disputing this. Then why do you keep saying that these laws were put in place by men? Are you suggesting that men shouldn't have been allowed to take part in the vote?" Yes they do And then when women offer pro life views they are classed as having "internalised misogyny" People from the far left (and they will deny that they are far left or even that the far left exists) only want to debate with people who agree with them If you disagree you are a bigot It's a simple worldview and one that is comforting I suppose, god forbid you actually debate points and see past colour / gender etc when you can just exclude people from conversations A pathetic and weak minded worldview | |||
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"I do understand a woman wanting an abortion for all kinds of reasons. But when is the conversation going to be about the foetus, at what point since conception does this become less of the flushing of a few unwanted cells, and the dragging out and killing of a perfectly healthy baby? I have five grown up kids, but don’t profess to be an expert in these matters. I’ve witnessed childbirth, and is a truly magical yet natural thing. Twenty four weeks is like six months? Surely that is way too late???" The conversation doesn't ignore the foetus, it's a key element of it, especially for later stage terminations. Large numbers of terminations occur earlier, with later stage terminations often being due to health concerns, for the mother or a potential baby. Some issues are discovered later in pregnancy, as some foetal development then occurs, highlighting problems that wouldn't have been known about early in pregnancy. In any event, terminations are not undertaken lightly by women, without considering their potential baby and future life quality etc. | |||
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"All of the new state laws recently put in place have ratified by a vote of the electorate. The US often seems backward to us, but even they allow women to vote. No one is disputing this. Then why do you keep saying that these laws were put in place by men? " They are. " Are you suggesting that men shouldn't have been allowed to take part in the vote?" No. | |||
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"Then why do you keep saying that these laws were put in place by men?" "They are." Fine. If you don't want people to understand what you are saying, you carry on. | |||
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"Then why do you keep saying that these laws were put in place by men? They are. Fine. If you don't want people to understand what you are saying, you carry on." Not sure how else it can be explained. Besides, I was merely agreeing with another poster. | |||
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"this was debated 2 years and nothing significant has changed to warrant having another 'once in a geneartion' debate, apart from nutty nige stoking things up because he's desperate to get a few more votes from the handful of crackpot christians who stalk and harass women outside clinics" Do you think creating a controversial statement that misrepresents the actual issue only serves to fuel those same crackpots you’re criticising? | |||
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"I see, it depends which way you spin it, right? “Is 24 weeks right for abortion given that we now save babies at 22?” he said. I think that is a fair point, especially as he is only suggesting a debate…" Trump also said that in Democratic States they kill babies "after they are born" if the woman says she does not want it. A damned lie of course but amongst all the others no one notices. | |||
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