Join us FREE, we're FREE to use
Web's largest swingers site since 2006.
Already registered?
Login here
Join us FREE, we're FREE to use
Web's largest swingers site since 2006.
Already registered?
Login here
 | Back to forum list |
| Back to Politics |
| Jump to newest |  |
| |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
| |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"For it let the person decide it’s morally right "  | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
| |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
| |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"I used to be in favour of it, but given the experience in Canada I am now more against. In a perfect world it might be fine but with the substandard healthcare we have in the UK it will be a disaster. Terrible health service Doctors motivated by money State hates old people Doctors get paid to bump off old people State desperate for cash steps in and seizes their assets/farms, so the sooner they die the better." These are my feelings too. | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
| |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"You lot just can’t help yourselves. A very serious subject and you manage to make it about Labour. Hopefully the cross party debates in parliament will treat this subject with the respect it deserves ." Unfortunately they have severe LDS, it’s sad to see | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"You lot just can’t help yourselves. A very serious subject and you manage to make it about Labour. Hopefully the cross party debates in parliament will treat this subject with the respect it deserves ." I believe the Bill is being proposed by a Labour MP, under a Labour Government. | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"You lot just can’t help yourselves. A very serious subject and you manage to make it about Labour. Hopefully the cross party debates in parliament will treat this subject with the respect it deserves . I believe the Bill is being proposed by a Labour MP, under a Labour Government." Who were voted in government with a huge majority in the commons  | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"I used to be in favour of it, but given the experience in Canada I am now more against. In a perfect world it might be fine but with the substandard healthcare we have in the UK it will be a disaster. Terrible health service Doctors motivated by money State hates old people Doctors get paid to bump off old people State desperate for cash steps in and seizes their assets/farms, so the sooner they die the better." I agree with the first half. I don't agree with everything from "substandard healthcare we have in the UK....". | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"You lot just can’t help yourselves. A very serious subject and you manage to make it about Labour. Hopefully the cross party debates in parliament will treat this subject with the respect it deserves . I believe the Bill is being proposed by a Labour MP, under a Labour Government." For England, maybe Wales too. Scotland has its own say | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"You lot just can’t help yourselves. A very serious subject and you manage to make it about Labour. Hopefully the cross party debates in parliament will treat this subject with the respect it deserves . I believe the Bill is being proposed by a Labour MP, under a Labour Government. Who were voted in government with a huge majority in the commons "Wow is that statement now on a copy and paste when you want it. | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"You lot just can’t help yourselves. A very serious subject and you manage to make it about Labour. Hopefully the cross party debates in parliament will treat this subject with the respect it deserves . I believe the Bill is being proposed by a Labour MP, under a Labour Government." Why the comments about hating old people and the state seizing assets and farms?. Which I believe you agreed with. | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"You lot just can’t help yourselves. A very serious subject and you manage to make it about Labour. Hopefully the cross party debates in parliament will treat this subject with the respect it deserves . I believe the Bill is being proposed by a Labour MP, under a Labour Government. Why the comments about hating old people and the state seizing assets and farms?. Which I believe you agreed with." The State is not Labour or Conservative is it ? I don't think its so controversial to imagine parts of the state beauracracy seeing assisted dying in financial terms. | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"You lot just can’t help yourselves. A very serious subject and you manage to make it about Labour. Hopefully the cross party debates in parliament will treat this subject with the respect it deserves . I believe the Bill is being proposed by a Labour MP, under a Labour Government. Who were voted in government with a huge majority in the commons
Wow is that statement now on a copy and paste when you want it."Not always, but it’s useful to remind people | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"You lot just can’t help yourselves. A very serious subject and you manage to make it about Labour. Hopefully the cross party debates in parliament will treat this subject with the respect it deserves . I believe the Bill is being proposed by a Labour MP, under a Labour Government. Who were voted in government with a huge majority in the commons "Once again, you jump on anyone who is anything other than a complete fanboy of the government. Why is it that you feel that the government should not be questioned or challenged? You try to shut down every discussion by pouring out they they were elected, and telling people they’re not allowed to criticise government, just vote again in 5 years time. Discussing government ideas / performance is normal and healthy. | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"You lot just can’t help yourselves. A very serious subject and you manage to make it about Labour. Hopefully the cross party debates in parliament will treat this subject with the respect it deserves . I believe the Bill is being proposed by a Labour MP, under a Labour Government. Who were voted in government with a huge majority in the commons
Wow is that statement now on a copy and paste when you want it."Yeah. Every time. He wants to silence any discussion of government ideas, policies or performance | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"You lot just can’t help yourselves. A very serious subject and you manage to make it about Labour. Hopefully the cross party debates in parliament will treat this subject with the respect it deserves . I believe the Bill is being proposed by a Labour MP, under a Labour Government. Who were voted in government with a huge majority in the commons
Wow is that statement now on a copy and paste when you want it.
Yeah. Every time. He wants to silence any discussion of government ideas, policies or performance "On the contrary, I only use it to counteract LDS, however, I have made my point so no longer need to post it | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"You lot just can’t help yourselves. A very serious subject and you manage to make it about Labour. Hopefully the cross party debates in parliament will treat this subject with the respect it deserves . I believe the Bill is being proposed by a Labour MP, under a Labour Government. Who were voted in government with a huge majority in the commons
Wow is that statement now on a copy and paste when you want it.
Yeah. Every time. He wants to silence any discussion of government ideas, policies or performance
On the contrary, I only use it to counteract LDS, however, I have made my point so no longer need to post it "Every time though. You keep trying to silence discussion of government performance … “majority” “LDS” “vote in 5 years time” … while constantly claiming they are doing a brilliant job. Ok for you to big them up, but not ok for anyone else to criticise in any way. Can you see the discrepancy? | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"You lot just can’t help yourselves. A very serious subject and you manage to make it about Labour. Hopefully the cross party debates in parliament will treat this subject with the respect it deserves . I believe the Bill is being proposed by a Labour MP, under a Labour Government. Who were voted in government with a huge majority in the commons
Wow is that statement now on a copy and paste when you want it.
Yeah. Every time. He wants to silence any discussion of government ideas, policies or performance
On the contrary, I only use it to counteract LDS, however, I have made my point so no longer need to post it "Guaranteed it's not the last time you post words to the same effect. | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"You lot just can’t help yourselves. A very serious subject and you manage to make it about Labour. Hopefully the cross party debates in parliament will treat this subject with the respect it deserves . I believe the Bill is being proposed by a Labour MP, under a Labour Government. Who were voted in government with a huge majority in the commons
Wow is that statement now on a copy and paste when you want it.
Yeah. Every time. He wants to silence any discussion of government ideas, policies or performance
On the contrary, I only use it to counteract LDS, however, I have made my point so no longer need to post it
Every time though. You keep trying to silence discussion of government performance … “majority” “LDS” “vote in 5 years time” … while constantly claiming they are doing a brilliant job.
Ok for you to big them up, but not ok for anyone else to criticise in any way.
Can you see the discrepancy? "Yes I can, point taken, I agree it has been overused. Can you also see certain posters who blame everything on a government that has been in power for 4 months is also displaying LDS? Maybe they should take some responsibility for their lives and stop relying on the government | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"You lot just can’t help yourselves. A very serious subject and you manage to make it about Labour. Hopefully the cross party debates in parliament will treat this subject with the respect it deserves . I believe the Bill is being proposed by a Labour MP, under a Labour Government. Who were voted in government with a huge majority in the commons
Wow is that statement now on a copy and paste when you want it.
Yeah. Every time. He wants to silence any discussion of government ideas, policies or performance
On the contrary, I only use it to counteract LDS, however, I have made my point so no longer need to post it
Guaranteed it's not the last time you post words to the same effect. "Maybe, maybe not, but don’t worry about it | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"You lot just can’t help yourselves. A very serious subject and you manage to make it about Labour. Hopefully the cross party debates in parliament will treat this subject with the respect it deserves . I believe the Bill is being proposed by a Labour MP, under a Labour Government. Who were voted in government with a huge majority in the commons
Wow is that statement now on a copy and paste when you want it.
Yeah. Every time. He wants to silence any discussion of government ideas, policies or performance
On the contrary, I only use it to counteract LDS, however, I have made my point so no longer need to post it
Guaranteed it's not the last time you post words to the same effect.
Maybe, maybe not, but don’t worry about it "I'm not worried | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"You lot just can’t help yourselves. A very serious subject and you manage to make it about Labour. Hopefully the cross party debates in parliament will treat this subject with the respect it deserves . I believe the Bill is being proposed by a Labour MP, under a Labour Government. Who were voted in government with a huge majority in the commons
Wow is that statement now on a copy and paste when you want it.
Yeah. Every time. He wants to silence any discussion of government ideas, policies or performance
On the contrary, I only use it to counteract LDS, however, I have made my point so no longer need to post it
Every time though. You keep trying to silence discussion of government performance … “majority” “LDS” “vote in 5 years time” … while constantly claiming they are doing a brilliant job.
Ok for you to big them up, but not ok for anyone else to criticise in any way.
Can you see the discrepancy?
Yes I can, point taken, I agree it has been overused. Can you also see certain posters who blame everything on a government that has been in power for 4 months is also displaying LDS? Maybe they should take some responsibility for their lives and stop relying on the government "Thanks for taking the point. Now can you please drop that lame term “LDS” and maybe we can have constructive balanced discussions Yes there are people who hate labour and will criticise a lot of what they do. That’s the same regardless of who is in power. Trying to paint them all with the same little label (LDS) is schoolyard logic | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"You lot just can’t help yourselves. A very serious subject and you manage to make it about Labour. Hopefully the cross party debates in parliament will treat this subject with the respect it deserves . I believe the Bill is being proposed by a Labour MP, under a Labour Government. Who were voted in government with a huge majority in the commons
Wow is that statement now on a copy and paste when you want it.
Yeah. Every time. He wants to silence any discussion of government ideas, policies or performance
On the contrary, I only use it to counteract LDS, however, I have made my point so no longer need to post it
Guaranteed it's not the last time you post words to the same effect.
Maybe, maybe not, but don’t worry about it "You posted “I have made my point so no longer need to post it” … and then you more or less immediately admit that you might indeed repeat the posts? | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"You lot just can’t help yourselves. A very serious subject and you manage to make it about Labour. Hopefully the cross party debates in parliament will treat this subject with the respect it deserves . I believe the Bill is being proposed by a Labour MP, under a Labour Government. Who were voted in government with a huge majority in the commons
Wow is that statement now on a copy and paste when you want it.
Yeah. Every time. He wants to silence any discussion of government ideas, policies or performance
On the contrary, I only use it to counteract LDS, however, I have made my point so no longer need to post it
Guaranteed it's not the last time you post words to the same effect.
Maybe, maybe not, but don’t worry about it
You posted “I have made my point so no longer need to post it” … and then you more or less immediately admit that you might indeed repeat the posts?
"Tbh, I appreciate your input but I don’t need permission to post on here | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"What's your opinion - are you for or against? Is it an open door to euthanasia or a useful way for Labour to bump off a few more pensioners?" as long as the person making the choice is of sound mind i dont see a problem, | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
| |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"For it let the person decide it’s morally right " I agree, it’s down to the individual | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"For it let the person decide it’s morally right I agree, it’s down to the individual " ypu wpuld get done if you kept a dog alive in similar cases to people dying so i think it should be an option for people | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"For it let the person decide it’s morally right I agree, it’s down to the individual ypu wpuld get done if you kept a dog alive in similar cases to people dying so i think it should be an option for people " I agree, it’s inhumane, give people the choice | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"Having recently sat for a week watching my grandma slowly die a horrible death still fully aware and of sound mind i know it would of been better for her and she would of wanted it, they would just have to be very carefull with the rules and procedures that were in place " ❤️ | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
| |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
| |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
| |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"It should be a case of seeing any doctor. Making a request for EOL. Doctor refers to MH specialist to establish if patient is sound of mind, there is no coercion, etc. MH refer to solicitor to draw up a statement of intent / desire. Solicitor checks for cooercion / pressure again. Case referred to court for a judge to review. Sanction granted or denied. If sanctioned, then process can go ahead and all parties involved are not accountable for murder. If denied, then follow up with police (in the event of cooercion), or MH (for lack of fitness to make informed decision)." Yes. This. I don't understand why people want to limit it to only people that are terminally ill. Suicide is surprisingly common, and it costs a fortune in investigating, disruption to others, and cleaning up. Why not allow anyone access to this process, and save all the problems inherent in the current way of doing things. | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
| |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"I’m all for it, there are one or two I would gladly give assistance too. "  | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"It should be a case of seeing any doctor. Making a request for EOL. Doctor refers to MH specialist to establish if patient is sound of mind, there is no coercion, etc. MH refer to solicitor to draw up a statement of intent / desire. Solicitor checks for cooercion / pressure again. Case referred to court for a judge to review. Sanction granted or denied. If sanctioned, then process can go ahead and all parties involved are not accountable for murder. If denied, then follow up with police (in the event of cooercion), or MH (for lack of fitness to make informed decision). Yes. This. I don't understand why people want to limit it to only people that are terminally ill. Suicide is surprisingly common, and it costs a fortune in investigating, disruption to others, and cleaning up. Why not allow anyone access to this process, and save all the problems inherent in the current way of doing things." I suppose to guard against temporary 'low spots' in mental wellbeing that could lead to hasty and irreversible decisions. | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"It should be a case of seeing any doctor. Making a request for EOL. Doctor refers to MH specialist to establish if patient is sound of mind, there is no coercion, etc. MH refer to solicitor to draw up a statement of intent / desire. Solicitor checks for cooercion / pressure again. Case referred to court for a judge to review. Sanction granted or denied. If sanctioned, then process can go ahead and all parties involved are not accountable for murder. If denied, then follow up with police (in the event of cooercion), or MH (for lack of fitness to make informed decision). Yes. This. I don't understand why people want to limit it to only people that are terminally ill. Suicide is surprisingly common, and it costs a fortune in investigating, disruption to others, and cleaning up. Why not allow anyone access to this process, and save all the problems inherent in the current way of doing things. I suppose to guard against temporary 'low spots' in mental wellbeing that could lead to hasty and irreversible decisions. " and with the current rate of people on (happy pils) im sure theres a large proportion of people have off days | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"It should be a case of seeing any doctor. Making a request for EOL. Doctor refers to MH specialist to establish if patient is sound of mind, there is no coercion, etc. MH refer to solicitor to draw up a statement of intent / desire. Solicitor checks for cooercion / pressure again. Case referred to court for a judge to review. Sanction granted or denied. If sanctioned, then process can go ahead and all parties involved are not accountable for murder. If denied, then follow up with police (in the event of cooercion), or MH (for lack of fitness to make informed decision)." "Yes. This. I don't understand why people want to limit it to only people that are terminally ill. Suicide is surprisingly common, and it costs a fortune in investigating, disruption to others, and cleaning up. Why not allow anyone access to this process, and save all the problems inherent in the current way of doing things." "I suppose to guard against temporary 'low spots' in mental wellbeing that could lead to hasty and irreversible decisions. " I was assuming that the above process would take about 3 months, which should be long enough to determine if the desire is temporary. Plus the MH specialist at the beginning can offer treatment for 'low spots'. Obviously there would have to be a fast track process for those who are terminally ill. | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"What's your opinion - are you for or against? Is it an open door to euthanasia or a useful way for Labour to bump off a few more pensioners?" Would this make insurance policies void  | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"What's your opinion - are you for or against? Is it an open door to euthanasia or a useful way for Labour to bump off a few more pensioners? Would this make insurance policies void "By the time people are considering euthanasia, their total and permanent disability, or "pretty much dead already" clause has already kicked in and they've been paid out. | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"What's your opinion - are you for or against? Is it an open door to euthanasia or a useful way for Labour to bump off a few more pensioners? Would this make insurance policies void
By the time people are considering euthanasia, their total and permanent disability, or "pretty much dead already" clause has already kicked in and they've been paid out."Yes, I guess this relates more to suicide | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"What's your opinion - are you for or against? Is it an open door to euthanasia or a useful way for Labour to bump off a few more pensioners? Would this make insurance policies void
By the time people are considering euthanasia, their total and permanent disability, or "pretty much dead already" clause has already kicked in and they've been paid out.
Yes, I guess this relates more to suicide "Suicide is usually covered, just not in the first year of a policy. | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"I think the whole approach, the whole "should we allow assisted dying?" discussion needs completely turning on its head and reframing. . Essentially it boils down to this. . Should a person have self-autonomy to cease living ? The reason is irrelevant (ofc it might be highly personal to them), but focussing on the reason distracts from the fundamental autonomy of the individual. . After all, we all have this autonomy any way, do we not ? . It should be a case of seeing any doctor. Making a request for EOL. Doctor refers to MH specialist to establish if patient is sound of mind, there is no coercion, etc. MH refer to solicitor to draw up a statement of intent / desire. Solicitor checks for cooercion / pressure again. Case referred to court for a judge to review. Sanction granted or denied. If sanctioned, then process can go ahead and all parties involved are not accountable for murder. If denied, then follow up with police (in the event of cooercion), or MH (for lack of fitness to make informed decision). . At the end of the day, even if the person was denied (on whatever grounds), they could still walk in front of a bus (for example), because that is their fundamental autonomy. And if they fail, they can try again and again, causing more anguish to potentially innocents. . Allow those with capacity to take informed decisions to end their lives whenever they feel appropriate (not just in a terminal illness for example). Have checks and balances to ensure there is no coercion. Check capacity. Legally sanction their request and protect those who carry it out. " Who pays for all this? | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"It should be a case of seeing any doctor. Making a request for EOL. Doctor refers to MH specialist to establish if patient is sound of mind, there is no coercion, etc. MH refer to solicitor to draw up a statement of intent / desire. Solicitor checks for cooercion / pressure again. Case referred to court for a judge to review. Sanction granted or denied. If sanctioned, then process can go ahead and all parties involved are not accountable for murder. If denied, then follow up with police (in the event of cooercion), or MH (for lack of fitness to make informed decision). Yes. This. I don't understand why people want to limit it to only people that are terminally ill. Suicide is surprisingly common, and it costs a fortune in investigating, disruption to others, and cleaning up. Why not allow anyone access to this process, and save all the problems inherent in the current way of doing things. I suppose to guard against temporary 'low spots' in mental wellbeing that could lead to hasty and irreversible decisions. I was assuming that the above process would take about 3 months, which should be long enough to determine if the desire is temporary. Plus the MH specialist at the beginning can offer treatment for 'low spots'. Obviously there would have to be a fast track process for those who are terminally ill."  , referrals to MH have how many weeks wait? | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
| |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
| |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
" Every person has a right to full bodily autonomy" | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"This is a very timid, inadequate bill. Once again, MP's are way behind the wishes of the vast majority of the electorate. Let's hope that Scotland will lead the way. Every person has a right to full bodily autonomy and this should not be limited by the religious beliefs of a small minority." Have you got stats on the 'majority' who want this? And what sources are you using regarding the religious beliefs of a small minority. Sweeping statement without evidence. Please supply | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"Who pays for all this?" The same organisation who "bring you in this world". The same organisation who fix you up if you get ill. The same organisation who ease you out of this world when terminally hospitalised. . We all pay via our taxes. No one seems to bat an eyelid that part of their NI & Tax funds natal birth, nor end of life palliative care. . I think then you are referring to the additional legal and non-clinical requirements ? Solicitor's fees ? . I suppose those could be funded by the Estate of the deceased person (where applicable). . A Google Search gives a very rough cost of each person costing the UK Government £15K a year. . If "Bob" elects to end his life at 40 years old, which is 42 years ahead of average life expectancy in the UK, that's 42 x 15K = £630K the government don't need to spend on Bob over his average lifespan. In theory Bob's "taxable earnings" would have offset that, but with late age and health conditions Bob may have swung the pendulum the other way too and cost more than 15K a year. . As morbid as it might sound, Bob's wishes quite likely save the government money in the long term. . At the other end of the scale, those who choose to remain "child free" save the government (and the tax payer) shed loads in the long term too. And that's not even factoring in overpopulation, resource demand, infrastructure pressure, climate impact, etc. There already is an ethics committee/due process in hospitals where decisions are made to turn off life support. This is an extension of that and could be dovetailed in to that process. | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"Who pays for all this?" I was assuming that the person that wanted the procedure would be paying. Obviously those of restricted means should get some sort of assistance. | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"Obviously there would have to be a fast track process for those who are terminally ill." "referrals to MH have how many weeks wait?" No idea, but for terminally ill patients we can skip the MH referral. | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"Who pays for all this? The same organisation who "bring you in this world". The same organisation who fix you up if you get ill. The same organisation who ease you out of this world when terminally hospitalised. . We all pay via our taxes. No one seems to bat an eyelid that part of their NI & Tax funds natal birth, nor end of life palliative care. . I think then you are referring to the additional legal and non-clinical requirements ? Solicitor's fees ? . I suppose those could be funded by the Estate of the deceased person (where applicable). . A Google Search gives a very rough cost of each person costing the UK Government £15K a year. . If "Bob" elects to end his life at 40 years old, which is 42 years ahead of average life expectancy in the UK, that's 42 x 15K = £630K the government don't need to spend on Bob over his average lifespan. In theory Bob's "taxable earnings" would have offset that, but with late age and health conditions Bob may have swung the pendulum the other way too and cost more than 15K a year. . As morbid as it might sound, Bob's wishes quite likely save the government money in the long term. . At the other end of the scale, those who choose to remain "child free" save the government (and the tax payer) shed loads in the long term too. And that's not even factoring in overpopulation, resource demand, infrastructure pressure, climate impact, etc. There already is an ethics committee/due process in hospitals where decisions are made to turn off life support. This is an extension of that and could be dovetailed in to that process." Sounds like there is a clear financial incentive for the NHS and government to bump people off as soon as possible. | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
" Sounds like there is a clear financial incentive for the NHS and government to bump people off as soon as possible." . Incentive ? No. But any highly advanced economic system in any modern country will have whole departments who economically model to the nth degree the economic cost and impact of their citizens. Such info is used for actual versus projected service provisioning, identifying and dealing with trends, and yes "social engineering", be it benign or malign. It's nothing new or revelatory. | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
| |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
| |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"I think it's a way out for the Labour party when they wreck the country, their only way out is death ( echo echo echo....) For the general public I say no, because it's too open to abuse, scam and fraudulent behavior. " So Palliative care Nil by mouth, no food or water for 7 or 8 days until your organs shut down is not abuse? Watching a loved one starve to death on palliative care is horrendous and cruel. | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
" So Palliative care Nil by mouth, no food or water for 7 or 8 days until your organs shut down is not abuse? Watching a loved one starve to death on palliative care is horrendous and cruel." Indeed it is and I could not agree more. . There is a certain irony that when a much loved pet is terminally ill, we have the option to ease their suffering (regardless of their ability to consent to the outcome), and yet with a human (who might have capacity and could consent) we do not extend the same opportunity. . We value the life and offer dignity and ease suffering in our pets. We do not offer the same to ourselves. (Yet other countries do). We are far behind the times. | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"I think it's a way out for the Labour party when they wreck the country, their only way out is death ( echo echo echo....) For the general public I say no, because it's too open to abuse, scam and fraudulent behavior. So Palliative care Nil by mouth, no food or water for 7 or 8 days until your organs shut down is not abuse? Watching a loved one starve to death on palliative care is horrendous and cruel." That is NOT how palliative care works! | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
" So Palliative care Nil by mouth, no food or water for 7 or 8 days until your organs shut down is not abuse? Watching a loved one starve to death on palliative care is horrendous and cruel. Indeed it is and I could not agree more. . There is a certain irony that when a much loved pet is terminally ill, we have the option to ease their suffering (regardless of their ability to consent to the outcome), and yet with a human (who might have capacity and could consent) we do not extend the same opportunity. . We value the life and offer dignity and ease suffering in our pets. We do not offer the same to ourselves. (Yet other countries do). We are far behind the times." You do know that palliative care is literally the easing symptoms? IE reduce the suffering to nil in every possible case (yes some cases are extremely difficult to ease, such as end stage COPD). | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"I think it's a way out for the Labour party when they wreck the country, their only way out is death ( echo echo echo....) For the general public I say no, because it's too open to abuse, scam and fraudulent behavior. So Palliative care Nil by mouth, no food or water for 7 or 8 days until your organs shut down is not abuse? Watching a loved one starve to death on palliative care is horrendous and cruel. That is NOT how palliative care works!" it was called the Liverpool care pathway. It was inhumane.  | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"I think it's a way out for the Labour party when they wreck the country, their only way out is death ( echo echo echo....) For the general public I say no, because it's too open to abuse, scam and fraudulent behavior. So Palliative care Nil by mouth, no food or water for 7 or 8 days until your organs shut down is not abuse? Watching a loved one starve to death on palliative care is horrendous and cruel. That is NOT how palliative care works! it was called the Liverpool care pathway. It was inhumane. " | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
| |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
| |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"So Palliative care Nil by mouth, no food or water for 7 or 8 days until your organs shut down is not abuse? Watching a loved one starve to death on palliative care is horrendous and cruel." "That is NOT how palliative care works!" That's exactly how palliative care works. I've seen 3 family members die in this way, one of them with no access to painkillers on the last day because the nurse didn't have the authority to prescribe more, and it was a Sunday so no doctor was available. | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"I think it's a way out for the Labour party when they wreck the country, their only way out is death ( echo echo echo....) For the general public I say no, because it's too open to abuse, scam and fraudulent behavior. So Palliative care Nil by mouth, no food or water for 7 or 8 days until your organs shut down is not abuse? Watching a loved one starve to death on palliative care is horrendous and cruel. That is NOT how palliative care works! it was called the Liverpool care pathway. It was inhumane. "No it was not! It ensured no areas of palliative care were missed. The only people who thought/think that the Liverpool care pathway was inhumane, did not understand it or palliative care. End of life pathways were renamed due to the incorrect media portrayal of the LCP. | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"So Palliative care Nil by mouth, no food or water for 7 or 8 days until your organs shut down is not abuse? Watching a loved one starve to death on palliative care is horrendous and cruel. That is NOT how palliative care works! That's exactly how palliative care works. I've seen 3 family members die in this way, one of them with no access to painkillers on the last day because the nurse didn't have the authority to prescribe more, and it was a Sunday so no doctor was available." Only nurse prescribers can prescribe. There are doctors available (unless you are talking multiple decades ago). As it is harder to get access to doctors after 6pm and weekends, this is when the dose range is extremely important. Palliative care is next to my heart and anyone receiving or witnessing poor palliative care has my sympathies. And if this occurs nowadays, then make complaints. | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"I think it's a way out for the Labour party when they wreck the country, their only way out is death ( echo echo echo....) For the general public I say no, because it's too open to abuse, scam and fraudulent behavior. So Palliative care Nil by mouth, no food or water for 7 or 8 days until your organs shut down is not abuse? Watching a loved one starve to death on palliative care is horrendous and cruel. That is NOT how palliative care works! it was called the Liverpool care pathway. It was inhumane.
No it was not! It ensured no areas of palliative care were missed.
The only people who thought/think that the Liverpool care pathway was inhumane, did not understand it or palliative care.
End of life pathways were renamed due to the incorrect media portrayal of the LCP."The LCP was a massive scandal which was strongly criticised by multiple independent enquires and sources. | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"I think it's a way out for the Labour party when they wreck the country, their only way out is death ( echo echo echo....) For the general public I say no, because it's too open to abuse, scam and fraudulent behavior. So Palliative care Nil by mouth, no food or water for 7 or 8 days until your organs shut down is not abuse? Watching a loved one starve to death on palliative care is horrendous and cruel. That is NOT how palliative care works! it was called the Liverpool care pathway. It was inhumane.
No it was not! It ensured no areas of palliative care were missed.
The only people who thought/think that the Liverpool care pathway was inhumane, did not understand it or palliative care.
End of life pathways were renamed due to the incorrect media portrayal of the LCP.
The LCP was a massive scandal which was strongly criticised by multiple independent enquires and sources."As someone who utilised it (the community version), it was an extremely useful tool. What the general public had a hard time accepting is that dying people do not need food (it is their ability not to be able to eat, same with drink, that stops nutrition and fluids being given) at this point. | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
| |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"I think it's a way out for the Labour party when they wreck the country, their only way out is death ( echo echo echo....) For the general public I say no, because it's too open to abuse, scam and fraudulent behavior. So Palliative care Nil by mouth, no food or water for 7 or 8 days until your organs shut down is not abuse? Watching a loved one starve to death on palliative care is horrendous and cruel. That is NOT how palliative care works!" F**king right it is, I've watched two family members pass away this way, Don't try and dictate Just wait until you endure a family member receiving palliative care and a Nil by mouth sign above bed. | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
| |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
| |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"It's a private member's bill with a free vote. The vote will not be subject to a party whip. It has nothing to do with partisan politics. So, it is down to the individual member to vote with their own conscience. " It will Never happen in Scotland as long as the SNP are in power Here is the list of names of MSPS who voted AGAINST assisted dying in Scotland last time round Stuart McMillan (West Scotland) (SNP) Duncan McNeil (Greenock and Inverclyde) (Lab) Nanette Milne (North East Scotland) (Con) Paterson, Gil (Clydebank and Milngavie) (SNP) Graeme Pearson (South Scotland) (Lab) John Pentland (Motherwell and Wishaw) (Lab) Willie Rennie (Mid Scotland and Fife) (LD) Dennis Robertson (Aberdeenshire West) (SNP) Robison, Shona (Dundee City East) (SNP) Rowley, Alex (Cowdenbeath) (Lab) Michael Russell (Argyll and Bute) (SNP) Mary Scanlon (Highlands and Islands) (Con) John Scott (Ayr) (Con) Dr Richard Simpson (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Lab) Drew Smith (Glasgow) (Lab) Elaine Smith (Coatbridge and Chryston) (Lab) Liz Smith (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Con) Stewart Stevenson (Banffshire and Buchan Coast) (SNP) David Stewart (Highlands and Islands) (Lab) Nicola Sturgeon (Glasgow Southside) (SNP) John Swinney (Perthshire North) (SNP) Dave Thompson (Skye, Lochaber and Badenoch) (SNP) Maureen Watt (Aberdeen South and North Kincardine) (SNP) Paul Wheelhouse (South Scotland) (SNP) Humza Yousaf (Glasgow) (SNP) | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"I think it's a way out for the Labour party when they wreck the country, their only way out is death ( echo echo echo....) For the general public I say no, because it's too open to abuse, scam and fraudulent behavior. So Palliative care Nil by mouth, no food or water for 7 or 8 days until your organs shut down is not abuse? Watching a loved one starve to death on palliative care is horrendous and cruel. That is NOT how palliative care works! F**king right it is, I've watched two family members pass away this way, Don't try and dictate Just wait until you endure a family member receiving palliative care and a Nil by mouth sign above bed." I have been privileged and humbled to give quality palliative care (in the community) for hundreds of people. | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"I think it's a way out for the Labour party when they wreck the country, their only way out is death ( echo echo echo....) For the general public I say no, because it's too open to abuse, scam and fraudulent behavior. So Palliative care Nil by mouth, no food or water for 7 or 8 days until your organs shut down is not abuse? Watching a loved one starve to death on palliative care is horrendous and cruel. That is NOT how palliative care works! it was called the Liverpool care pathway. It was inhumane.
No it was not! It ensured no areas of palliative care were missed.
The only people who thought/think that the Liverpool care pathway was inhumane, did not understand it or palliative care.
End of life pathways were renamed due to the incorrect media portrayal of the LCP."You have more than my opinion on this and it is consistent. I find your dismissiveness in line with the people who administered LCP to my father in his last days of life, and I'm pleased that others will never again be exposed to such barbaric practices. Phased out after an independent review, that cited its variable implementation and the distress it caused to patients and families. | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"I think it's a way out for the Labour party when they wreck the country, their only way out is death ( echo echo echo....) For the general public I say no, because it's too open to abuse, scam and fraudulent behavior. So Palliative care Nil by mouth, no food or water for 7 or 8 days until your organs shut down is not abuse? Watching a loved one starve to death on palliative care is horrendous and cruel. That is NOT how palliative care works! it was called the Liverpool care pathway. It was inhumane.
No it was not! It ensured no areas of palliative care were missed.
The only people who thought/think that the Liverpool care pathway was inhumane, did not understand it or palliative care.
End of life pathways were renamed due to the incorrect media portrayal of the LCP.
You have more than my opinion on this and it is consistent.
I find your dismissiveness in line with the people who administered LCP to my father in his last days of life, and I'm pleased that others will never again be exposed to such barbaric practices.
Phased out after an independent review, that cited its variable implementation and the distress it caused to patients and families.
"😡 | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"I personally would appreciate the option if, for some reason, I lost the physical capability to off myself and I wanted to end my life due to chronic pain etc It's my life, if I want to end it I should be able to. And I'f I'm physically incapable, but mentally capable to make the choice, I should hope my request would be granted " The current proposal needs, above other red tape, a high court judge's approval. Sounds like a long-winded procedure. | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"Not sure about the details of how it would work. But I am for it, if the person has to at least be in favour of doing it at least for a week." Nothing in what you say makes sense. Read up on it and inform yourself first. | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"I think it's a way out for the Labour party when they wreck the country, their only way out is death ( echo echo echo....) For the general public I say no, because it's too open to abuse, scam and fraudulent behavior. So Palliative care Nil by mouth, no food or water for 7 or 8 days until your organs shut down is not abuse? Watching a loved one starve to death on palliative care is horrendous and cruel. That is NOT how palliative care works!" It certainly was how palliative care worked when my first wife died. She was put on the Liverpool pathway without my consent (Cynthia Spencer hospice in Northampton). Had we still been living n Oregon, where euthanasia was the first place on the planet to legalise it, she could have chosen an earlier more dignified and less painful end of life. As it was she and I were abandoned by Macmillans almost from day 1 of her diagnosis. Thankfully Marie Curie and Age Uk stepped up with end of life care until we were no longer able to support her at home. | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"I think it's a way out for the Labour party when they wreck the country, their only way out is death ( echo echo echo....) For the general public I say no, because it's too open to abuse, scam and fraudulent behavior. So Palliative care Nil by mouth, no food or water for 7 or 8 days until your organs shut down is not abuse? Watching a loved one starve to death on palliative care is horrendous and cruel. That is NOT how palliative care works! F**king right it is, I've watched two family members pass away this way, Don't try and dictate Just wait until you endure a family member receiving palliative care and a Nil by mouth sign above bed." certainly not how I've ever experienced it. I worked in care for quite sometime. We would not give nil by mouth till they really couldn't have anything.. this was normally right at the very end when their bodies were already giving up, and swallowing was an issue. Sorry you had bad experiences but I can tell you now that's not what palliative care is about or how it works. Our patients were made as comfortable as they could be and we would make sure someone was with them x Cali | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
| |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
| |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"I think it's a way out for the Labour party when they wreck the country, their only way out is death ( echo echo echo....) For the general public I say no, because it's too open to abuse, scam and fraudulent behavior. So Palliative care Nil by mouth, no food or water for 7 or 8 days until your organs shut down is not abuse? Watching a loved one starve to death on palliative care is horrendous and cruel. That is NOT how palliative care works! it was called the Liverpool care pathway. It was inhumane.
No it was not! It ensured no areas of palliative care were missed.
The only people who thought/think that the Liverpool care pathway was inhumane, did not understand it or palliative care.
End of life pathways were renamed due to the incorrect media portrayal of the LCP.
You have more than my opinion on this and it is consistent.
I find your dismissiveness in line with the people who administered LCP to my father in his last days of life, and I'm pleased that others will never again be exposed to such barbaric practices.
Phased out after an independent review, that cited its variable implementation and the distress it caused to patients and families.
"As I stated, the LCP simply became end of life careplans. What was barbaric? Perhaps it was the variable implementation that was actually the problem, not the tool. | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"I think it's a way out for the Labour party when they wreck the country, their only way out is death ( echo echo echo....) For the general public I say no, because it's too open to abuse, scam and fraudulent behavior. So Palliative care Nil by mouth, no food or water for 7 or 8 days until your organs shut down is not abuse? Watching a loved one starve to death on palliative care is horrendous and cruel. That is NOT how palliative care works! F**king right it is, I've watched two family members pass away this way, Don't try and dictate Just wait until you endure a family member receiving palliative care and a Nil by mouth sign above bed. certainly not how I've ever experienced it. I worked in care for quite sometime. We would not give nil by mouth till they really couldn't have anything.. this was normally right at the very end when their bodies were already giving up, and swallowing was an issue. Sorry you had bad experiences but I can tell you now that's not what palliative care is about or how it works. Our patients were made as comfortable as they could be and we would make sure someone was with them x Cali" Glad someone else is informed. It is horrid to hear of awful experiences. Palliative care is about addressing symptoms. With the philosophy of neither impeding nor hastening death. Thanks to Shipman, there are tight controls around medication (I mentioned a dose range before, so the nurse can up the meds without waiting for a new GP prescription. There are also bolus doses providing there's a chart (ie extra relief). If there is/was a postcode of quality vs awful care, it's awful. I've always been part of excellent teams. | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"You lot just can’t help yourselves. A very serious subject and you manage to make it about Labour. Hopefully the cross party debates in parliament will treat this subject with the respect it deserves . I believe the Bill is being proposed by a Labour MP, under a Labour Government. Who were voted in government with a huge majority in the commons "A huge majority of seats but not a huge majority of people voting for them. | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
| Post new Message to Thread |
| back to top |  |
