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"It's a covert plan by the Socialists to break-up farms and take them into state ownership. The fact that the approach has been an unmitigated disaster everywhere it's been tried doesn't seem to bother them. It means our children's children will be faced with woefully inefficient agriculture and empty bellies." Pure speculation | |||
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"It's a covert plan by the Socialists to break-up farms and take them into state ownership. The fact that the approach has been an unmitigated disaster everywhere it's been tried doesn't seem to bother them. It means our children's children will be faced with woefully inefficient agriculture and empty bellies. Pure speculation " More prediction based on likely outcomes. What else could happen as family farms are broken-up and sold? Labour's ignorance and green-eyed envy will ruin British farming and with it the British countryside. | |||
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"It's a covert plan by the Socialists to break-up farms and take them into state ownership. The fact that the approach has been an unmitigated disaster everywhere it's been tried doesn't seem to bother them. It means our children's children will be faced with woefully inefficient agriculture and empty bellies." Is there any news from this plane of existence? | |||
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"It's a covert plan by the Socialists to break-up farms and take them into state ownership. The fact that the approach has been an unmitigated disaster everywhere it's been tried doesn't seem to bother them. It means our children's children will be faced with woefully inefficient agriculture and empty bellies. Is there any news from this plane of existence?" You missed the Budget? Changes to IHT and other additional costs on farmers that mean family farms will be broken up. | |||
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"It's a covert plan by the Socialists to break-up farms and take them into state ownership. The fact that the approach has been an unmitigated disaster everywhere it's been tried doesn't seem to bother them. It means our children's children will be faced with woefully inefficient agriculture and empty bellies. Is there any news from this plane of existence? You missed the Budget? Changes to IHT and other additional costs on farmers that mean family farms will be broken up. " All family farms? | |||
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"It's a covert plan by the Socialists to break-up farms and take them into state ownership. The fact that the approach has been an unmitigated disaster everywhere it's been tried doesn't seem to bother them. It means our children's children will be faced with woefully inefficient agriculture and empty bellies. Is there any news from this plane of existence? You missed the Budget? Changes to IHT and other additional costs on farmers that mean family farms will be broken up. " Who are the "socialists" in this? | |||
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"It's a covert plan by the Socialists to break-up farms and take them into state ownership. The fact that the approach has been an unmitigated disaster everywhere it's been tried doesn't seem to bother them. It means our children's children will be faced with woefully inefficient agriculture and empty bellies. Is there any news from this plane of existence? You missed the Budget? Changes to IHT and other additional costs on farmers that mean family farms will be broken up. All family farms? " Well the rules apply to all, so ultimately yes, IHT will break-up farms just as it does any inherited wealth. | |||
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"It's a covert plan by the Socialists to break-up farms and take them into state ownership. The fact that the approach has been an unmitigated disaster everywhere it's been tried doesn't seem to bother them. It means our children's children will be faced with woefully inefficient agriculture and empty bellies. Is there any news from this plane of existence? You missed the Budget? Changes to IHT and other additional costs on farmers that mean family farms will be broken up. Who are the "socialists" in this? " The inestimable SKS and his bevy of ladies. He's a self-proclaimed Socialist you know. | |||
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"It's a covert plan by the Socialists to break-up farms and take them into state ownership. The fact that the approach has been an unmitigated disaster everywhere it's been tried doesn't seem to bother them. It means our children's children will be faced with woefully inefficient agriculture and empty bellies. Is there any news from this plane of existence? You missed the Budget? Changes to IHT and other additional costs on farmers that mean family farms will be broken up. All family farms? Well the rules apply to all, so ultimately yes, IHT will break-up farms just as it does any inherited wealth." How many family farms have been ‘broken up’ | |||
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"It's a covert plan by the Socialists to break-up farms and take them into state ownership. The fact that the approach has been an unmitigated disaster everywhere it's been tried doesn't seem to bother them. It means our children's children will be faced with woefully inefficient agriculture and empty bellies. Is there any news from this plane of existence? You missed the Budget? Changes to IHT and other additional costs on farmers that mean family farms will be broken up. All family farms? Well the rules apply to all, so ultimately yes, IHT will break-up farms just as it does any inherited wealth. How many family farms have been ‘broken up’ " Since the budget? I doubt any. What's your point? | |||
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"It's a covert plan by the Socialists to break-up farms and take them into state ownership. The fact that the approach has been an unmitigated disaster everywhere it's been tried doesn't seem to bother them. It means our children's children will be faced with woefully inefficient agriculture and empty bellies. Is there any news from this plane of existence? You missed the Budget? Changes to IHT and other additional costs on farmers that mean family farms will be broken up. All family farms? Well the rules apply to all, so ultimately yes, IHT will break-up farms just as it does any inherited wealth. How many family farms have been ‘broken up’ Since the budget? I doubt any. What's your point?" Zero? So again, you’re just guessing | |||
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"It's a covert plan by the Socialists to break-up farms and take them into state ownership. The fact that the approach has been an unmitigated disaster everywhere it's been tried doesn't seem to bother them. It means our children's children will be faced with woefully inefficient agriculture and empty bellies. Is there any news from this plane of existence? You missed the Budget? Changes to IHT and other additional costs on farmers that mean family farms will be broken up. Who are the "socialists" in this? The inestimable SKS and his bevy of ladies. He's a self-proclaimed Socialist you know." Ah okay. So fictional socialists. Carry on. | |||
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"It's a covert plan by the Socialists to break-up farms and take them into state ownership. The fact that the approach has been an unmitigated disaster everywhere it's been tried doesn't seem to bother them. It means our children's children will be faced with woefully inefficient agriculture and empty bellies. Is there any news from this plane of existence? You missed the Budget? Changes to IHT and other additional costs on farmers that mean family farms will be broken up. Who are the "socialists" in this? The inestimable SKS and his bevy of ladies. He's a self-proclaimed Socialist you know. Ah okay. So fictional socialists. Carry on. " Carry on up the Gulag probably! What's your point? Labour aren't socialist? Maybe some centre left party? How'd you describe them? | |||
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"It's a covert plan by the Socialists to break-up farms and take them into state ownership. The fact that the approach has been an unmitigated disaster everywhere it's been tried doesn't seem to bother them. It means our children's children will be faced with woefully inefficient agriculture and empty bellies. Is there any news from this plane of existence? You missed the Budget? Changes to IHT and other additional costs on farmers that mean family farms will be broken up. Who are the "socialists" in this? The inestimable SKS and his bevy of ladies. He's a self-proclaimed Socialist you know. Ah okay. So fictional socialists. Carry on. Carry on up the Gulag probably! What's your point? Labour aren't socialist? Maybe some centre left party? How'd you describe them?" Centre/centre left Calling them socialist is just ridiculous and throws away the rest of your argument. Much like when people call the Tories Nazis or fascists. | |||
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"It's a covert plan by the Socialists to break-up farms and take them into state ownership. The fact that the approach has been an unmitigated disaster everywhere it's been tried doesn't seem to bother them. It means our children's children will be faced with woefully inefficient agriculture and empty bellies. Is there any news from this plane of existence? You missed the Budget? Changes to IHT and other additional costs on farmers that mean family farms will be broken up. All family farms? Well the rules apply to all, so ultimately yes, IHT will break-up farms just as it does any inherited wealth. How many family farms have been ‘broken up’ Since the budget? I doubt any. What's your point? Zero? So again, you’re just guessing " You do realise a Finance Bill must follow a budget before plans and taxes pass into law? I'm not guessing, it's an entirely predictable consequence that farms will be broken-up. | |||
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"It's a covert plan by the Socialists to break-up farms and take them into state ownership. The fact that the approach has been an unmitigated disaster everywhere it's been tried doesn't seem to bother them. It means our children's children will be faced with woefully inefficient agriculture and empty bellies. Is there any news from this plane of existence? You missed the Budget? Changes to IHT and other additional costs on farmers that mean family farms will be broken up. Who are the "socialists" in this? The inestimable SKS and his bevy of ladies. He's a self-proclaimed Socialist you know. Ah okay. So fictional socialists. Carry on. Carry on up the Gulag probably! What's your point? Labour aren't socialist? Maybe some centre left party? How'd you describe them? Centre/centre left Calling them socialist is just ridiculous and throws away the rest of your argument. Much like when people call the Tories Nazis or fascists." You'd better inform SKS. He'll be shocked having said openly he's a socialist. Is he lying you think? | |||
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"It's a covert plan by the Socialists to break-up farms and take them into state ownership. The fact that the approach has been an unmitigated disaster everywhere it's been tried doesn't seem to bother them. It means our children's children will be faced with woefully inefficient agriculture and empty bellies. Is there any news from this plane of existence? You missed the Budget? Changes to IHT and other additional costs on farmers that mean family farms will be broken up. All family farms? Well the rules apply to all, so ultimately yes, IHT will break-up farms just as it does any inherited wealth. How many family farms have been ‘broken up’ Since the budget? I doubt any. What's your point? Zero? So again, you’re just guessing You do realise a Finance Bill must follow a budget before plans and taxes pass into law? I'm not guessing, it's an entirely predictable consequence that farms will be broken-up. " At this stage nothing is definite, and you certainly can’t predict how many of these family farms will be broken up ,  | |||
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"It's a covert plan by the Socialists to break-up farms and take them into state ownership. The fact that the approach has been an unmitigated disaster everywhere it's been tried doesn't seem to bother them. It means our children's children will be faced with woefully inefficient agriculture and empty bellies. Is there any news from this plane of existence? You missed the Budget? Changes to IHT and other additional costs on farmers that mean family farms will be broken up. Who are the "socialists" in this? The inestimable SKS and his bevy of ladies. He's a self-proclaimed Socialist you know. Ah okay. So fictional socialists. Carry on. Carry on up the Gulag probably! What's your point? Labour aren't socialist? Maybe some centre left party? How'd you describe them? Centre/centre left Calling them socialist is just ridiculous and throws away the rest of your argument. Much like when people call the Tories Nazis or fascists. You'd better inform SKS. He'll be shocked having said openly he's a socialist. Is he lying you think?" SKS is the PM, not a dictator, even if he did say he was a socialist it doesn’t mean the Labour Party is | |||
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"It's a covert plan by the Socialists to break-up farms and take them into state ownership. The fact that the approach has been an unmitigated disaster everywhere it's been tried doesn't seem to bother them. It means our children's children will be faced with woefully inefficient agriculture and empty bellies. Is there any news from this plane of existence? You missed the Budget? Changes to IHT and other additional costs on farmers that mean family farms will be broken up. Who are the "socialists" in this? The inestimable SKS and his bevy of ladies. He's a self-proclaimed Socialist you know. Ah okay. So fictional socialists. Carry on. Carry on up the Gulag probably! What's your point? Labour aren't socialist? Maybe some centre left party? How'd you describe them? Centre/centre left Calling them socialist is just ridiculous and throws away the rest of your argument. Much like when people call the Tories Nazis or fascists. You'd better inform SKS. He'll be shocked having said openly he's a socialist. Is he lying you think?" Probably yes. | |||
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"It's a covert plan by the Socialists to break-up farms and take them into state ownership. The fact that the approach has been an unmitigated disaster everywhere it's been tried doesn't seem to bother them. It means our children's children will be faced with woefully inefficient agriculture and empty bellies. Is there any news from this plane of existence? You missed the Budget? Changes to IHT and other additional costs on farmers that mean family farms will be broken up. Who are the "socialists" in this? The inestimable SKS and his bevy of ladies. He's a self-proclaimed Socialist you know. Ah okay. So fictional socialists. Carry on. Carry on up the Gulag probably! What's your point? Labour aren't socialist? Maybe some centre left party? How'd you describe them? Centre/centre left Calling them socialist is just ridiculous and throws away the rest of your argument. Much like when people call the Tories Nazis or fascists. You'd better inform SKS. He'll be shocked having said openly he's a socialist. Is he lying you think? SKS is the PM, not a dictator, even if he did say he was a socialist it doesn’t mean the Labour Party is " The Labour party has strong ties to the trade unions and socialist movements. They are constantly putting the argument forward for the working person, for workers rights, social ownership GB energy. They are making sure wealth redistribution is happening by spending billions upon billions of tax payers money on public sector pay rises and taking money from people who send their child to private schools, WFA and all businesses. Sounds text book socialist to me.... | |||
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"It's a covert plan by the Socialists to break-up farms and take them into state ownership. The fact that the approach has been an unmitigated disaster everywhere it's been tried doesn't seem to bother them. It means our children's children will be faced with woefully inefficient agriculture and empty bellies. Is there any news from this plane of existence? You missed the Budget? Changes to IHT and other additional costs on farmers that mean family farms will be broken up. Who are the "socialists" in this? The inestimable SKS and his bevy of ladies. He's a self-proclaimed Socialist you know. Ah okay. So fictional socialists. Carry on. Carry on up the Gulag probably! What's your point? Labour aren't socialist? Maybe some centre left party? How'd you describe them? Centre/centre left Calling them socialist is just ridiculous and throws away the rest of your argument. Much like when people call the Tories Nazis or fascists." Text book socialists, see my post above | |||
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"It's a covert plan by the Socialists to break-up farms and take them into state ownership. The fact that the approach has been an unmitigated disaster everywhere it's been tried doesn't seem to bother them. It means our children's children will be faced with woefully inefficient agriculture and empty bellies. Is there any news from this plane of existence? You missed the Budget? Changes to IHT and other additional costs on farmers that mean family farms will be broken up. Who are the "socialists" in this? The inestimable SKS and his bevy of ladies. He's a self-proclaimed Socialist you know. Ah okay. So fictional socialists. Carry on. Carry on up the Gulag probably! What's your point? Labour aren't socialist? Maybe some centre left party? How'd you describe them? Centre/centre left Calling them socialist is just ridiculous and throws away the rest of your argument. Much like when people call the Tories Nazis or fascists. You'd better inform SKS. He'll be shocked having said openly he's a socialist. Is he lying you think? SKS is the PM, not a dictator, even if he did say he was a socialist it doesn’t mean the Labour Party is The Labour party has strong ties to the trade unions and socialist movements. They are constantly putting the argument forward for the working person, for workers rights, social ownership GB energy. They are making sure wealth redistribution is happening by spending billions upon billions of tax payers money on public sector pay rises and taking money from people who send their child to private schools, WFA and all businesses. Sounds text book socialist to me.... " Simply being on the side of ordinary British working people makes them socialist? | |||
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"It's a covert plan by the Socialists to break-up farms and take them into state ownership. The fact that the approach has been an unmitigated disaster everywhere it's been tried doesn't seem to bother them. It means our children's children will be faced with woefully inefficient agriculture and empty bellies. Is there any news from this plane of existence? You missed the Budget? Changes to IHT and other additional costs on farmers that mean family farms will be broken up. Who are the "socialists" in this? The inestimable SKS and his bevy of ladies. He's a self-proclaimed Socialist you know. Ah okay. So fictional socialists. Carry on. Carry on up the Gulag probably! What's your point? Labour aren't socialist? Maybe some centre left party? How'd you describe them? Centre/centre left Calling them socialist is just ridiculous and throws away the rest of your argument. Much like when people call the Tories Nazis or fascists. You'd better inform SKS. He'll be shocked having said openly he's a socialist. Is he lying you think? SKS is the PM, not a dictator, even if he did say he was a socialist it doesn’t mean the Labour Party is The Labour party has strong ties to the trade unions and socialist movements. They are constantly putting the argument forward for the working person, for workers rights, social ownership GB energy. They are making sure wealth redistribution is happening by spending billions upon billions of tax payers money on public sector pay rises and taking money from people who send their child to private schools, WFA and all businesses. Sounds text book socialist to me.... Simply being on the side of ordinary British working people makes them socialist?" There was more in the examples than simply being on the side of ordinary working people…. Why the eagerness to distance them from socialists, when their policies are from the socialist runbook 101 | |||
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"It's a covert plan by the Socialists to break-up farms and take them into state ownership. The fact that the approach has been an unmitigated disaster everywhere it's been tried doesn't seem to bother them. It means our children's children will be faced with woefully inefficient agriculture and empty bellies. Is there any news from this plane of existence? You missed the Budget? Changes to IHT and other additional costs on farmers that mean family farms will be broken up. Who are the "socialists" in this? The inestimable SKS and his bevy of ladies. He's a self-proclaimed Socialist you know. Ah okay. So fictional socialists. Carry on. Carry on up the Gulag probably! What's your point? Labour aren't socialist? Maybe some centre left party? How'd you describe them? Centre/centre left Calling them socialist is just ridiculous and throws away the rest of your argument. Much like when people call the Tories Nazis or fascists. You'd better inform SKS. He'll be shocked having said openly he's a socialist. Is he lying you think? SKS is the PM, not a dictator, even if he did say he was a socialist it doesn’t mean the Labour Party is The Labour party has strong ties to the trade unions and socialist movements. They are constantly putting the argument forward for the working person, for workers rights, social ownership GB energy. They are making sure wealth redistribution is happening by spending billions upon billions of tax payers money on public sector pay rises and taking money from people who send their child to private schools, WFA and all businesses. Sounds text book socialist to me.... Simply being on the side of ordinary British working people makes them socialist? There was more in the examples than simply being on the side of ordinary working people…. Why the eagerness to distance them from socialists, when their policies are from the socialist runbook 101 " I don't especially want to distance them. Is the NHS socialist, are any public services socialist? | |||
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"It's a covert plan by the Socialists to break-up farms and take them into state ownership. The fact that the approach has been an unmitigated disaster everywhere it's been tried doesn't seem to bother them. It means our children's children will be faced with woefully inefficient agriculture and empty bellies. Is there any news from this plane of existence? You missed the Budget? Changes to IHT and other additional costs on farmers that mean family farms will be broken up. Who are the "socialists" in this? The inestimable SKS and his bevy of ladies. He's a self-proclaimed Socialist you know. Ah okay. So fictional socialists. Carry on. Carry on up the Gulag probably! What's your point? Labour aren't socialist? Maybe some centre left party? How'd you describe them? Centre/centre left Calling them socialist is just ridiculous and throws away the rest of your argument. Much like when people call the Tories Nazis or fascists. You'd better inform SKS. He'll be shocked having said openly he's a socialist. Is he lying you think? SKS is the PM, not a dictator, even if he did say he was a socialist it doesn’t mean the Labour Party is The Labour party has strong ties to the trade unions and socialist movements. They are constantly putting the argument forward for the working person, for workers rights, social ownership GB energy. They are making sure wealth redistribution is happening by spending billions upon billions of tax payers money on public sector pay rises and taking money from people who send their child to private schools, WFA and all businesses. Sounds text book socialist to me.... Simply being on the side of ordinary British working people makes them socialist? There was more in the examples than simply being on the side of ordinary working people…. Why the eagerness to distance them from socialists, when their policies are from the socialist runbook 101 I don't especially want to distance them. Is the NHS socialist, are any public services socialist?" That is a strange question… I will leave this here now, I think I’ve proven my point. | |||
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"It's a covert plan by the Socialists to break-up farms and take them into state ownership. The fact that the approach has been an unmitigated disaster everywhere it's been tried doesn't seem to bother them. It means our children's children will be faced with woefully inefficient agriculture and empty bellies. Is there any news from this plane of existence? You missed the Budget? Changes to IHT and other additional costs on farmers that mean family farms will be broken up. Who are the "socialists" in this? The inestimable SKS and his bevy of ladies. He's a self-proclaimed Socialist you know. Ah okay. So fictional socialists. Carry on. Carry on up the Gulag probably! What's your point? Labour aren't socialist? Maybe some centre left party? How'd you describe them? Centre/centre left Calling them socialist is just ridiculous and throws away the rest of your argument. Much like when people call the Tories Nazis or fascists. You'd better inform SKS. He'll be shocked having said openly he's a socialist. Is he lying you think? SKS is the PM, not a dictator, even if he did say he was a socialist it doesn’t mean the Labour Party is The Labour party has strong ties to the trade unions and socialist movements. They are constantly putting the argument forward for the working person, for workers rights, social ownership GB energy. They are making sure wealth redistribution is happening by spending billions upon billions of tax payers money on public sector pay rises and taking money from people who send their child to private schools, WFA and all businesses. Sounds text book socialist to me.... Simply being on the side of ordinary British working people makes them socialist? There was more in the examples than simply being on the side of ordinary working people…. Why the eagerness to distance them from socialists, when their policies are from the socialist runbook 101 I don't especially want to distance them. Is the NHS socialist, are any public services socialist? That is a strange question… I will leave this here now, I think I’ve proven my point." It's not strange, these things would fall under your socialist bracket. Which means all governments have socialist elements and/or it isn't the bogeyman people here think it is and that having some socialist policies doesn't mean any of our governments are implementing socialism. | |||
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"These threads so often descend into finer points of semantics or strict definitions. If you're a farmer whose 200 year-old-family farm is being seized by the state, I doubt you care if the political movement behind it are called communist, socialist, Labour or pink lefties. "A rose by any other name would smell as sweet" right?" Is that actually happening though? | |||
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"I believe there at stats which show around 90% of the land in this country is owned by less than 1% of the population. Of this 90% over 50% of the titles are held in offshore trusts / companies or by foreign entities, A large number will be receiving subsidies paid for by the U.K. taxpayer. I’m not against supporting farmers through subsidy for food production. Regulation could protect the hedgerows etc. The target for these taxes is those wealthy landowners just creaming the cash and not actually growing anything themselves. Unearned income. Sadly like the winter fuel payments the labour government’s implementation has been mismanaged. So it’s a good idea but needed much more work to actually target the right people. Farming is a traditional business just like say shoe making but it’s a business after all and should be subject to the same inheritance rules. Big business has taken over most family concerns. The farmers are no different. Btw there are many ways to avoid this tax (see above) so not sure what all the fuss is about. " Well said, I don’t remember all this fuss from the right wing press when the farmers were shafted by Brexit | |||
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"These threads so often descend into finer points of semantics or strict definitions. If you're a farmer whose 200 year-old-family farm is being seized by the state, I doubt you care if the political movement behind it are called communist, socialist, Labour or pink lefties. "A rose by any other name would smell as sweet" right? Is that actually happening though?" Well not yet obviously. But we are blessed with foresight and the ability to predict likely outcomes aka intelligence. | |||
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"I believe there at stats which show around 90% of the land in this country is owned by less than 1% of the population. Of this 90% over 50% of the titles are held in offshore trusts / companies or by foreign entities, A large number will be receiving subsidies paid for by the U.K. taxpayer. I’m not against supporting farmers through subsidy for food production. Regulation could protect the hedgerows etc. The target for these taxes is those wealthy landowners just creaming the cash and not actually growing anything themselves. Unearned income. Sadly like the winter fuel payments the labour government’s implementation has been mismanaged. So it’s a good idea but needed much more work to actually target the right people. Farming is a traditional business just like say shoe making but it’s a business after all and should be subject to the same inheritance rules. Big business has taken over most family concerns. The farmers are no different. Btw there are many ways to avoid this tax (see above) so not sure what all the fuss is about. " Farming is important and a special case because it fills our bellies. All attempts at collectivisation of agriculture have been a disaster. I'm not sure if your 1% figure is correct, but so what? If it works, why change it? | |||
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"These threads so often descend into finer points of semantics or strict definitions. If you're a farmer whose 200 year-old-family farm is being seized by the state, I doubt you care if the political movement behind it are called communist, socialist, Labour or pink lefties. "A rose by any other name would smell as sweet" right? Is that actually happening though? Well not yet obviously. But we are blessed with foresight and the ability to predict likely outcomes aka intelligence." Is there any evidence that this will happen? | |||
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"These threads so often descend into finer points of semantics or strict definitions. If you're a farmer whose 200 year-old-family farm is being seized by the state, I doubt you care if the political movement behind it are called communist, socialist, Labour or pink lefties. "A rose by any other name would smell as sweet" right? Is that actually happening though? Well not yet obviously. But we are blessed with foresight and the ability to predict likely outcomes aka intelligence. Is there any evidence that this will happen?" Yes. The break-up of family wealth under existing IHT laws. But farming is a special case, and rightly so imo given their importance in keeping us fed. | |||
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"These threads so often descend into finer points of semantics or strict definitions. If you're a farmer whose 200 year-old-family farm is being seized by the state, I doubt you care if the political movement behind it are called communist, socialist, Labour or pink lefties. "A rose by any other name would smell as sweet" right? Is that actually happening though? Well not yet obviously. But we are blessed with foresight and the ability to predict likely outcomes aka intelligence. Is there any evidence that this will happen? Yes. The break-up of family wealth under existing IHT laws. But farming is a special case, and rightly so imo given their importance in keeping us fed." Paying tax on inheritance isn't exactly "breaking up" family wealth. I don't know what the special case is for farming, does that mean it isn't included in inheritance tax? | |||
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"These threads so often descend into finer points of semantics or strict definitions. If you're a farmer whose 200 year-old-family farm is being seized by the state, I doubt you care if the political movement behind it are called communist, socialist, Labour or pink lefties. "A rose by any other name would smell as sweet" right? Is that actually happening though? Well not yet obviously. But we are blessed with foresight and the ability to predict likely outcomes aka intelligence. Is there any evidence that this will happen? Yes. The break-up of family wealth under existing IHT laws. But farming is a special case, and rightly so imo given their importance in keeping us fed. Paying tax on inheritance isn't exactly "breaking up" family wealth. I don't know what the special case is for farming, does that mean it isn't included in inheritance tax?" It would mean farms (or part thereof) would be broken-up to pay tax just as wealthy estates are now. Farmers were previously exempt from IHT because family owned and run farms are more efficient in feeding us. As you know, Socialists have attempted collectivisation of agriculture and the result has always been famine (China, Russia, N.Korea, Rhodesia ........) | |||
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| Reply privately |
"These threads so often descend into finer points of semantics or strict definitions. If you're a farmer whose 200 year-old-family farm is being seized by the state, I doubt you care if the political movement behind it are called communist, socialist, Labour or pink lefties. "A rose by any other name would smell as sweet" right? Is that actually happening though? Well not yet obviously. But we are blessed with foresight and the ability to predict likely outcomes aka intelligence. Is there any evidence that this will happen? Yes. The break-up of family wealth under existing IHT laws. But farming is a special case, and rightly so imo given their importance in keeping us fed. Paying tax on inheritance isn't exactly "breaking up" family wealth. I don't know what the special case is for farming, does that mean it isn't included in inheritance tax? It would mean farms (or part thereof) would be broken-up to pay tax just as wealthy estates are now. Farmers were previously exempt from IHT because family owned and run farms are more efficient in feeding us. As you know, Socialists have attempted collectivisation of agriculture and the result has always been famine (China, Russia, N.Korea, Rhodesia ........)" Is this legislation on the way? | |||
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"These threads so often descend into finer points of semantics or strict definitions. If you're a farmer whose 200 year-old-family farm is being seized by the state, I doubt you care if the political movement behind it are called communist, socialist, Labour or pink lefties. "A rose by any other name would smell as sweet" right? Is that actually happening though? Well not yet obviously. But we are blessed with foresight and the ability to predict likely outcomes aka intelligence. Is there any evidence that this will happen? Yes. The break-up of family wealth under existing IHT laws. But farming is a special case, and rightly so imo given their importance in keeping us fed. Paying tax on inheritance isn't exactly "breaking up" family wealth. I don't know what the special case is for farming, does that mean it isn't included in inheritance tax? It would mean farms (or part thereof) would be broken-up to pay tax just as wealthy estates are now. Farmers were previously exempt from IHT because family owned and run farms are more efficient in feeding us. As you know, Socialists have attempted collectivisation of agriculture and the result has always been famine (China, Russia, N.Korea, Rhodesia ........) Is this legislation on the way?" If the Finance Bill gets voted through, yes. But there will be a backlash from the farming community that may cause a rethink. That's why considering cause and effect is so important. | |||
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"These threads so often descend into finer points of semantics or strict definitions. If you're a farmer whose 200 year-old-family farm is being seized by the state, I doubt you care if the political movement behind it are called communist, socialist, Labour or pink lefties. "A rose by any other name would smell as sweet" right? Is that actually happening though? Well not yet obviously. But we are blessed with foresight and the ability to predict likely outcomes aka intelligence. Is there any evidence that this will happen? Yes. The break-up of family wealth under existing IHT laws. But farming is a special case, and rightly so imo given their importance in keeping us fed. Paying tax on inheritance isn't exactly "breaking up" family wealth. I don't know what the special case is for farming, does that mean it isn't included in inheritance tax? It would mean farms (or part thereof) would be broken-up to pay tax just as wealthy estates are now. Farmers were previously exempt from IHT because family owned and run farms are more efficient in feeding us. As you know, Socialists have attempted collectivisation of agriculture and the result has always been famine (China, Russia, N.Korea, Rhodesia ........) Is this legislation on the way? If the Finance Bill gets voted through, yes. But there will be a backlash from the farming community that may cause a rethink. That's why considering cause and effect is so important." What's the alternative? Are people buying farmland now to dodge paying inheritance tax? | |||
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"These threads so often descend into finer points of semantics or strict definitions. If you're a farmer whose 200 year-old-family farm is being seized by the state, I doubt you care if the political movement behind it are called communist, socialist, Labour or pink lefties. "A rose by any other name would smell as sweet" right? Is that actually happening though? Well not yet obviously. But we are blessed with foresight and the ability to predict likely outcomes aka intelligence. Is there any evidence that this will happen? Yes. The break-up of family wealth under existing IHT laws. But farming is a special case, and rightly so imo given their importance in keeping us fed." Agree. Also farming isn't a regular job it's more of a way of life and one that very few people would have the dedication to do.
Were farms to be broken up and sold it's unlikely the new owners would be able to work the land as efficiently as the original owners.
Maybe there could be a clause that IHT wouldn't apply if the land were to continue to be left "as is" (ie not sold off for housing or development)- unless that was someone's plan all along  | |||
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"more chicken licken hysteria going on here" It appears that there is now a lot sympathy for farmers that was lacking when they were shafted by Brexit | |||
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"And still people vote labour and expect something other than high taxes and government overreach. Take farmland from farmers. A hatred of success and individualism. It's all looking more and more like the old Soviet system. Early days but keep watching. How much damage can these socialists do in 4 more years. Empty shelves in supermarkets coming soon." How soon? Next week? Week after? | |||
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"And still people vote labour and expect something other than high taxes and government overreach. Take farmland from farmers. A hatred of success and individualism. It's all looking more and more like the old Soviet system. Early days but keep watching. How much damage can these socialists do in 4 more years. Empty shelves in supermarkets coming soon. How soon? Next week? Week after? " Watch it happen. It'll take time to knock on but it will, if he keeps going with his mad marxists agenda. | |||
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"And still people vote labour and expect something other than high taxes and government overreach. Take farmland from farmers. A hatred of success and individualism. It's all looking more and more like the old Soviet system. Early days but keep watching. How much damage can these socialists do in 4 more years. Empty shelves in supermarkets coming soon. How soon? Next week? Week after? Watch it happen. It'll take time to knock on but it will, if he keeps going with his mad marxists agenda." Wow, that’s scary if true, we will just have to use our Brexit freedoms and import our food, | |||
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"And still people vote labour and expect something other than high taxes and government overreach. Take farmland from farmers. A hatred of success and individualism. It's all looking more and more like the old Soviet system. Early days but keep watching. How much damage can these socialists do in 4 more years. Empty shelves in supermarkets coming soon. How soon? Next week? Week after? Watch it happen. It'll take time to knock on but it will, if he keeps going with his mad marxists agenda. Wow, that’s scary if true, we will just have to use our Brexit freedoms and import our food, " Well we could but they won't. It would help if we didn't have a gang of criminals in charge of the country determined to wreck our farming industry. | |||
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"And still people vote labour and expect something other than high taxes and government overreach. Take farmland from farmers. A hatred of success and individualism. It's all looking more and more like the old Soviet system. Early days but keep watching. How much damage can these socialists do in 4 more years. Empty shelves in supermarkets coming soon. How soon? Next week? Week after? Watch it happen. It'll take time to knock on but it will, if he keeps going with his mad marxists agenda. Wow, that’s scary if true, we will just have to use our Brexit freedoms and import our food, Well we could but they won't. It would help if we didn't have a gang of criminals in charge of the country determined to wreck our farming industry." Criminals, this is huge news (if true) , what crimes have the been convicted off? We don’t need British food anymore, we have Brexit and the freedom to import cheaper from abroad | |||
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"And still people vote labour and expect something other than high taxes and government overreach. Take farmland from farmers. A hatred of success and individualism. It's all looking more and more like the old Soviet system. Early days but keep watching. How much damage can these socialists do in 4 more years. Empty shelves in supermarkets coming soon. How soon? Next week? Week after? Watch it happen. It'll take time to knock on but it will, if he keeps going with his mad marxists agenda. Wow, that’s scary if true, we will just have to use our Brexit freedoms and import our food, Well we could but they won't. It would help if we didn't have a gang of criminals in charge of the country determined to wreck our farming industry. Criminals, this is huge news (if true) , what crimes have the been convicted off? We don’t need British food anymore, we have Brexit and the freedom to import cheaper from abroad " With a US trade deal on the cards again (won’t happen as Labour prefers hanging out with the EU losers) it’s probably time to resurrect some scare stories about chlorinated chicken and Trump owning RNHS. | |||
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"These threads so often descend into finer points of semantics or strict definitions. If you're a farmer whose 200 year-old-family farm is being seized by the state, I doubt you care if the political movement behind it are called communist, socialist, Labour or pink lefties. "A rose by any other name would smell as sweet" right? Is that actually happening though? Well not yet obviously. But we are blessed with foresight and the ability to predict likely outcomes aka intelligence. Is there any evidence that this will happen? Yes. The break-up of family wealth under existing IHT laws. But farming is a special case, and rightly so imo given their importance in keeping us fed. Paying tax on inheritance isn't exactly "breaking up" family wealth. I don't know what the special case is for farming, does that mean it isn't included in inheritance tax? It would mean farms (or part thereof) would be broken-up to pay tax just as wealthy estates are now. Farmers were previously exempt from IHT because family owned and run farms are more efficient in feeding us. As you know, Socialists have attempted collectivisation of agriculture and the result has always been famine (China, Russia, N.Korea, Rhodesia ........) Is this legislation on the way? If the Finance Bill gets voted through, yes. But there will be a backlash from the farming community that may cause a rethink. That's why considering cause and effect is so important. What's the alternative? Are people buying farmland now to dodge paying inheritance tax?" Do you ever post without a question mark? Why is it that you only respond to posts with questions rather than facts? Is it because you don't know any facts and questioning everything makes you feel superior? Do you think your scheme is working? | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"And still people vote labour and expect something other than high taxes and government overreach. Take farmland from farmers. A hatred of success and individualism. It's all looking more and more like the old Soviet system. Early days but keep watching. How much damage can these socialists do in 4 more years. Empty shelves in supermarkets coming soon. How soon? Next week? Week after? Watch it happen. It'll take time to knock on but it will, if he keeps going with his mad marxists agenda. Wow, that’s scary if true, we will just have to use our Brexit freedoms and import our food, Well we could but they won't. It would help if we didn't have a gang of criminals in charge of the country determined to wreck our farming industry. Criminals, this is huge news (if true) , what crimes have the been convicted off? We don’t need British food anymore, we have Brexit and the freedom to import cheaper from abroad With a US trade deal on the cards again (won’t happen as Labour prefers hanging out with the EU losers) it’s probably time to resurrect some scare stories about chlorinated chicken and Trump owning RNHS." The US trade deal will happen because Farage and trump are best mates | |||
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| Reply privately |
"These threads so often descend into finer points of semantics or strict definitions. If you're a farmer whose 200 year-old-family farm is being seized by the state, I doubt you care if the political movement behind it are called communist, socialist, Labour or pink lefties. "A rose by any other name would smell as sweet" right? Is that actually happening though? Well not yet obviously. But we are blessed with foresight and the ability to predict likely outcomes aka intelligence. Is there any evidence that this will happen? Yes. The break-up of family wealth under existing IHT laws. But farming is a special case, and rightly so imo given their importance in keeping us fed. Paying tax on inheritance isn't exactly "breaking up" family wealth. I don't know what the special case is for farming, does that mean it isn't included in inheritance tax? It would mean farms (or part thereof) would be broken-up to pay tax just as wealthy estates are now. Farmers were previously exempt from IHT because family owned and run farms are more efficient in feeding us. As you know, Socialists have attempted collectivisation of agriculture and the result has always been famine (China, Russia, N.Korea, Rhodesia ........) Is this legislation on the way? If the Finance Bill gets voted through, yes. But there will be a backlash from the farming community that may cause a rethink. That's why considering cause and effect is so important. What's the alternative? Are people buying farmland now to dodge paying inheritance tax?" Yes | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"These threads so often descend into finer points of semantics or strict definitions. If you're a farmer whose 200 year-old-family farm is being seized by the state, I doubt you care if the political movement behind it are called communist, socialist, Labour or pink lefties. "A rose by any other name would smell as sweet" right? Is that actually happening though? Well not yet obviously. But we are blessed with foresight and the ability to predict likely outcomes aka intelligence. Is there any evidence that this will happen? Yes. The break-up of family wealth under existing IHT laws. But farming is a special case, and rightly so imo given their importance in keeping us fed. Paying tax on inheritance isn't exactly "breaking up" family wealth. I don't know what the special case is for farming, does that mean it isn't included in inheritance tax? It would mean farms (or part thereof) would be broken-up to pay tax just as wealthy estates are now. Farmers were previously exempt from IHT because family owned and run farms are more efficient in feeding us. As you know, Socialists have attempted collectivisation of agriculture and the result has always been famine (China, Russia, N.Korea, Rhodesia ........) Is this legislation on the way? If the Finance Bill gets voted through, yes. But there will be a backlash from the farming community that may cause a rethink. That's why considering cause and effect is so important. What's the alternative? Are people buying farmland now to dodge paying inheritance tax? Do you ever post without a question mark? Why is it that you only respond to posts with questions rather than facts? Is it because you don't know any facts and questioning everything makes you feel superior? Do you think your scheme is working?" It's a ploy used a lot on these threads to avoid responding directly to an opinion and/or presented facts. Just keep asking obtuse questions. | |||
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| Reply privately |
"These threads so often descend into finer points of semantics or strict definitions. If you're a farmer whose 200 year-old-family farm is being seized by the state, I doubt you care if the political movement behind it are called communist, socialist, Labour or pink lefties. "A rose by any other name would smell as sweet" right? Is that actually happening though? Well not yet obviously. But we are blessed with foresight and the ability to predict likely outcomes aka intelligence. Is there any evidence that this will happen? Yes. The break-up of family wealth under existing IHT laws. But farming is a special case, and rightly so imo given their importance in keeping us fed. Paying tax on inheritance isn't exactly "breaking up" family wealth. I don't know what the special case is for farming, does that mean it isn't included in inheritance tax? It would mean farms (or part thereof) would be broken-up to pay tax just as wealthy estates are now. Farmers were previously exempt from IHT because family owned and run farms are more efficient in feeding us. As you know, Socialists have attempted collectivisation of agriculture and the result has always been famine (China, Russia, N.Korea, Rhodesia ........) Is this legislation on the way? If the Finance Bill gets voted through, yes. But there will be a backlash from the farming community that may cause a rethink. That's why considering cause and effect is so important. What's the alternative? Are people buying farmland now to dodge paying inheritance tax? Do you ever post without a question mark? Why is it that you only respond to posts with questions rather than facts? Is it because you don't know any facts and questioning everything makes you feel superior? Do you think your scheme is working?" Ironically you just asked 4 questions | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
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"And still people vote labour and expect something other than high taxes and government overreach. Take farmland from farmers. A hatred of success and individualism. It's all looking more and more like the old Soviet system. Early days but keep watching. How much damage can these socialists do in 4 more years. Empty shelves in supermarkets coming soon."  | |||
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"These threads so often descend into finer points of semantics or strict definitions. If you're a farmer whose 200 year-old-family farm is being seized by the state, I doubt you care if the political movement behind it are called communist, socialist, Labour or pink lefties. "A rose by any other name would smell as sweet" right? Is that actually happening though? Well not yet obviously. But we are blessed with foresight and the ability to predict likely outcomes aka intelligence. Is there any evidence that this will happen? Yes. The break-up of family wealth under existing IHT laws. But farming is a special case, and rightly so imo given their importance in keeping us fed. Paying tax on inheritance isn't exactly "breaking up" family wealth. I don't know what the special case is for farming, does that mean it isn't included in inheritance tax? It would mean farms (or part thereof) would be broken-up to pay tax just as wealthy estates are now. Farmers were previously exempt from IHT because family owned and run farms are more efficient in feeding us. As you know, Socialists have attempted collectivisation of agriculture and the result has always been famine (China, Russia, N.Korea, Rhodesia ........) Is this legislation on the way? If the Finance Bill gets voted through, yes. But there will be a backlash from the farming community that may cause a rethink. That's why considering cause and effect is so important. What's the alternative? Are people buying farmland now to dodge paying inheritance tax? Yes" So something needs to be done. Fair play to the government. | |||
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| Reply privately |
"These threads so often descend into finer points of semantics or strict definitions. If you're a farmer whose 200 year-old-family farm is being seized by the state, I doubt you care if the political movement behind it are called communist, socialist, Labour or pink lefties. "A rose by any other name would smell as sweet" right? Is that actually happening though? Well not yet obviously. But we are blessed with foresight and the ability to predict likely outcomes aka intelligence. Is there any evidence that this will happen? Yes. The break-up of family wealth under existing IHT laws. But farming is a special case, and rightly so imo given their importance in keeping us fed. Paying tax on inheritance isn't exactly "breaking up" family wealth. I don't know what the special case is for farming, does that mean it isn't included in inheritance tax? It would mean farms (or part thereof) would be broken-up to pay tax just as wealthy estates are now. Farmers were previously exempt from IHT because family owned and run farms are more efficient in feeding us. As you know, Socialists have attempted collectivisation of agriculture and the result has always been famine (China, Russia, N.Korea, Rhodesia ........) Is this legislation on the way? If the Finance Bill gets voted through, yes. But there will be a backlash from the farming community that may cause a rethink. That's why considering cause and effect is so important. What's the alternative? Are people buying farmland now to dodge paying inheritance tax? Do you ever post without a question mark? Why is it that you only respond to posts with questions rather than facts? Is it because you don't know any facts and questioning everything makes you feel superior? Do you think your scheme is working?" Let's try to stay on topic. If you want to concentrate on attacking other forum posters for no reason. Maybe start a new thread? | |||
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"These threads so often descend into finer points of semantics or strict definitions. If you're a farmer whose 200 year-old-family farm is being seized by the state, I doubt you care if the political movement behind it are called communist, socialist, Labour or pink lefties. "A rose by any other name would smell as sweet" right? Is that actually happening though? Well not yet obviously. But we are blessed with foresight and the ability to predict likely outcomes aka intelligence. Is there any evidence that this will happen? Yes. The break-up of family wealth under existing IHT laws. But farming is a special case, and rightly so imo given their importance in keeping us fed. Paying tax on inheritance isn't exactly "breaking up" family wealth. I don't know what the special case is for farming, does that mean it isn't included in inheritance tax? It would mean farms (or part thereof) would be broken-up to pay tax just as wealthy estates are now. Farmers were previously exempt from IHT because family owned and run farms are more efficient in feeding us. As you know, Socialists have attempted collectivisation of agriculture and the result has always been famine (China, Russia, N.Korea, Rhodesia ........) Is this legislation on the way? If the Finance Bill gets voted through, yes. But there will be a backlash from the farming community that may cause a rethink. That's why considering cause and effect is so important. What's the alternative? Are people buying farmland now to dodge paying inheritance tax? Do you ever post without a question mark? Why is it that you only respond to posts with questions rather than facts? Is it because you don't know any facts and questioning everything makes you feel superior? Do you think your scheme is working? It's a ploy used a lot on these threads to avoid responding directly to an opinion and/or presented facts. Just keep asking obtuse questions. " I asked you questions in good faith. If you and this other person want to just have a pop at me. Why not start a new thread, so we can keep this one on track. | |||
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"These threads so often descend into finer points of semantics or strict definitions. If you're a farmer whose 200 year-old-family farm is being seized by the state, I doubt you care if the political movement behind it are called communist, socialist, Labour or pink lefties. "A rose by any other name would smell as sweet" right? Is that actually happening though? Well not yet obviously. But we are blessed with foresight and the ability to predict likely outcomes aka intelligence. Is there any evidence that this will happen? Yes. The break-up of family wealth under existing IHT laws. But farming is a special case, and rightly so imo given their importance in keeping us fed. Paying tax on inheritance isn't exactly "breaking up" family wealth. I don't know what the special case is for farming, does that mean it isn't included in inheritance tax? It would mean farms (or part thereof) would be broken-up to pay tax just as wealthy estates are now. Farmers were previously exempt from IHT because family owned and run farms are more efficient in feeding us. As you know, Socialists have attempted collectivisation of agriculture and the result has always been famine (China, Russia, N.Korea, Rhodesia ........) Is this legislation on the way? If the Finance Bill gets voted through, yes. But there will be a backlash from the farming community that may cause a rethink. That's why considering cause and effect is so important. What's the alternative? Are people buying farmland now to dodge paying inheritance tax? Yes So something needs to be done. Fair play to the government." The people buying farmland to avoid Inheritance Tax aren’t generally farmers, they tend to be wealthy people who have money to invest, if you don’t require an actual income from the investment, land is a good place to park it. Fairly steady value uplift and the IT bonus has made it popular. It’s a shame a more nuanced approach could not have been found to create a tax liability for these investors whilst not impacting on people genuinely trying to earn a living from the land, unfortunately the more complex a tax regulation is the more scope there is for work arounds and the very people you are trying to regulate for are usually the ones best placed find those. | |||
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"And still people vote labour and expect something other than high taxes and government overreach. Take farmland from farmers. A hatred of success and individualism. It's all looking more and more like the old Soviet system. Early days but keep watching. How much damage can these socialists do in 4 more years. Empty shelves in supermarkets coming soon." Project fear | |||
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"These threads so often descend into finer points of semantics or strict definitions. If you're a farmer whose 200 year-old-family farm is being seized by the state, I doubt you care if the political movement behind it are called communist, socialist, Labour or pink lefties. "A rose by any other name would smell as sweet" right? Is that actually happening though? Well not yet obviously. But we are blessed with foresight and the ability to predict likely outcomes aka intelligence. Is there any evidence that this will happen?" When you get the evidence it will be to late. I guess you ae the sort of person that can't see a cllif edge till you walk over it if there is not a sign.. | |||
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"These threads so often descend into finer points of semantics or strict definitions. If you're a farmer whose 200 year-old-family farm is being seized by the state, I doubt you care if the political movement behind it are called communist, socialist, Labour or pink lefties. "A rose by any other name would smell as sweet" right? Is that actually happening though? Well not yet obviously. But we are blessed with foresight and the ability to predict likely outcomes aka intelligence. Is there any evidence that this will happen? Yes. The break-up of family wealth under existing IHT laws. But farming is a special case, and rightly so imo given their importance in keeping us fed. Paying tax on inheritance isn't exactly "breaking up" family wealth. I don't know what the special case is for farming, does that mean it isn't included in inheritance tax? It would mean farms (or part thereof) would be broken-up to pay tax just as wealthy estates are now. Farmers were previously exempt from IHT because family owned and run farms are more efficient in feeding us. As you know, Socialists have attempted collectivisation of agriculture and the result has always been famine (China, Russia, N.Korea, Rhodesia ........) Is this legislation on the way? If the Finance Bill gets voted through, yes. But there will be a backlash from the farming community that may cause a rethink. That's why considering cause and effect is so important. What's the alternative? Are people buying farmland now to dodge paying inheritance tax? Do you ever post without a question mark? Why is it that you only respond to posts with questions rather than facts? Is it because you don't know any facts and questioning everything makes you feel superior? Do you think your scheme is working? It's a ploy used a lot on these threads to avoid responding directly to an opinion and/or presented facts. Just keep asking obtuse questions. I asked you questions in good faith. If you and this other person want to just have a pop at me. Why not start a new thread, so we can keep this one on track." Merely commenting on a trend of endless questions, no pops, no need for a separate thread. | |||
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"These threads so often descend into finer points of semantics or strict definitions. If you're a farmer whose 200 year-old-family farm is being seized by the state, I doubt you care if the political movement behind it are called communist, socialist, Labour or pink lefties. "A rose by any other name would smell as sweet" right? Is that actually happening though? Well not yet obviously. But we are blessed with foresight and the ability to predict likely outcomes aka intelligence. Is there any evidence that this will happen? When you get the evidence it will be to late. " So we should mitigate against things that there is no evidence for? Let's coat the world in bouncy castles for when space marbles rain down on us. " I guess you ae the sort of person that can't see a cllif edge till you walk over it if there is not a sign.." Not sure why you're trying to make this about me. But yes, if there is evidence that there's a cliff edge, IE signs, IE I'm at the coast, IE I can see the cliff. Then I'm going to be careful. If I'm in my living room, then I'm not going to be worried about falling off a cliff. | |||
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"so one or two people will begin to pay a little bit of tax now .... no fucks given "It’s just project fear from the right ring press, hardly any farmers will be affected and , it’s faux outrage | |||
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"I believe there at stats which show around 90% of the land in this country is owned by less than 1% of the population. Of this 90% over 50% of the titles are held in offshore trusts / companies or by foreign entities, A large number will be receiving subsidies paid for by the U.K. taxpayer. I’m not against supporting farmers through subsidy for food production. Regulation could protect the hedgerows etc. The target for these taxes is those wealthy landowners just creaming the cash and not actually growing anything themselves. Unearned income. Sadly like the winter fuel payments the labour government’s implementation has been mismanaged. So it’s a good idea but needed much more work to actually target the right people. Farming is a traditional business just like say shoe making but it’s a business after all and should be subject to the same inheritance rules. Big business has taken over most family concerns. The farmers are no different. Btw there are many ways to avoid this tax (see above) so not sure what all the fuss is about. Farming is important and a special case because it fills our bellies. All attempts at collectivisation of agriculture have been a disaster. I'm not sure if your 1% figure is correct, but so what? If it works, why change it?" The reason pension funds and large companies invest in large farming / land management operations is exactly because they are successful. Hence the squeezing out of small operators. It’s not the Soviet Union Model. It’s business as I said above. As I said happy to subsidise farmers for food so keep them earning at a reasonable level. The reason the 1% is an issue is they are making vast sums of money on this untaxed land whilst receiving subsidies from actually working taxpayers. Sadly we don’t feed our own bellies that much due to importing food so security not really relevant anymore. | |||
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"so one or two people will begin to pay a little bit of tax now .... no fucks given
It’s just project fear from the right ring press, hardly any farmers will be affected and , it’s faux outrage "im sorry but you're talking shite, to be classed as a FARMER it has to be your sole income and i doubt there is many farms worth sub 1 milluon that can generate enough profit to sustain a family | |||
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"so one or two people will begin to pay a little bit of tax now .... no fucks given
It’s just project fear from the right ring press, hardly any farmers will be affected and , it’s faux outrage im sorry but you're talking shite, to be classed as a FARMER it has to be your sole income and i doubt there is many farms worth sub 1 milluon that can generate enough profit to sustain a family "a very good friend of mines parents run a sheep farm with a herd of upto 1000 at peak times all land and farm owned outright and he told me if they made 50k profit in a year its been a very very good year that farm will be in the value of around 4 - 5 million easily | |||
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"so one or two people will begin to pay a little bit of tax now .... no fucks given
It’s just project fear from the right ring press, hardly any farmers will be affected and , it’s faux outrage im sorry but you're talking shite, to be classed as a FARMER it has to be your sole income and i doubt there is many farms worth sub 1 milluon that can generate enough profit to sustain a family "Really? Have a look into it, start with FT and Dan Neidle tax expert) | |||
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"so one or two people will begin to pay a little bit of tax now .... no fucks given
It’s just project fear from the right ring press, hardly any farmers will be affected and , it’s faux outrage im sorry but you're talking shite, to be classed as a FARMER it has to be your sole income and i doubt there is many farms worth sub 1 milluon that can generate enough profit to sustain a family a very good friend of mines parents run a sheep farm with a herd of upto 1000 at peak times all land and farm owned outright and he told me if they made 50k profit in a year its been a very very good year that farm will be in the value of around 4 - 5 million easily "Tbh, if your friend has a farm worth 5 million and only makes 50K then he is obviously a crap farmer | |||
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"I think a lot of this stuff is just the clumsy sledgehammer approach to what is a fair proposal. A scaled approach perhaps?? There’s a huge difference between major land owners and farmers so maybe a bias in that perhaps? If you run a general family owned business and want to pass it on then you use tax mechanisms to take advantage. The farmers will have to follow suit. No one would complain if a family operated shopkeeper’s landlord pays tax on increasing property values. " So why not move the farm in to a Limited company but the children on as directors. Not my field (no pun intended) but worth looking in to guess lots allread have. | |||
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"I think a lot of this stuff is just the clumsy sledgehammer approach to what is a fair proposal. A scaled approach perhaps?? There’s a huge difference between major land owners and farmers so maybe a bias in that perhaps? If you run a general family owned business and want to pass it on then you use tax mechanisms to take advantage. The farmers will have to follow suit. No one would complain if a family operated shopkeeper’s landlord pays tax on increasing property values. So why not move the farm in to a Limited company but the children on as directors. Not my field (no pun intended) but worth looking in to guess lots allread have." There’s lots of options depending on your circumstances age etc and whether you own the farm or not. The bigger boys go offshore . Wrong again but what can you do? Change the law perhaps!!!! One thought is maybe, and I know this is revolutionary talk, but maybe we should just pay the farmers more for our food and stop expecting supermarkets to squeeze the pips of hard working farmers. I know this means people would all need to be paid more which again is shocking to some. Or perhaps cut worker's tax bills by stopping subsidies such as those to the richer landowners. We attack each others while that 1% quietly watch and smile. The following 4% keep quiet too because they want to join the 1% . The 95% as I said earlier make a lot of noise . | |||
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"so one or two people will begin to pay a little bit of tax now .... no fucks given
It’s just project fear from the right ring press, hardly any farmers will be affected and , it’s faux outrage im sorry but you're talking shite, to be classed as a FARMER it has to be your sole income and i doubt there is many farms worth sub 1 milluon that can generate enough profit to sustain a family a very good friend of mines parents run a sheep farm with a herd of upto 1000 at peak times all land and farm owned outright and he told me if they made 50k profit in a year its been a very very good year that farm will be in the value of around 4 - 5 million easily
Tbh, if your friend has a farm worth 5 million and only makes 50K then he is obviously a crap farmer "50k profit probably 500k theres no money in farming other than subsidiaries and diversity with shops and merch ect trust me i know a little bit about farming | |||
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"I think a lot of this stuff is just the clumsy sledgehammer approach to what is a fair proposal. A scaled approach perhaps?? There’s a huge difference between major land owners and farmers so maybe a bias in that perhaps? If you run a general family owned business and want to pass it on then you use tax mechanisms to take advantage. The farmers will have to follow suit. No one would complain if a family operated shopkeeper’s landlord pays tax on increasing property values. So why not move the farm in to a Limited company but the children on as directors. Not my field (no pun intended) but worth looking in to guess lots allread have." i think theyll be split into sub 1 mil segments tbh | |||
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"so one or two people will begin to pay a little bit of tax now .... no fucks given
It’s just project fear from the right ring press, hardly any farmers will be affected and , it’s faux outrage im sorry but you're talking shite, to be classed as a FARMER it has to be your sole income and i doubt there is many farms worth sub 1 milluon that can generate enough profit to sustain a family a very good friend of mines parents run a sheep farm with a herd of upto 1000 at peak times all land and farm owned outright and he told me if they made 50k profit in a year its been a very very good year that farm will be in the value of around 4 - 5 million easily
Tbh, if your friend has a farm worth 5 million and only makes 50K then he is obviously a crap farmer 50k profit probably 500k theres no money in farming other than subsidiaries and diversity with shops and merch ect trust me i know a little bit about farming "Why hasn’t your mate benefitted from Brexit and 14 years of Tory governments? | |||
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"so one or two people will begin to pay a little bit of tax now .... no fucks given
It’s just project fear from the right ring press, hardly any farmers will be affected and , it’s faux outrage im sorry but you're talking shite, to be classed as a FARMER it has to be your sole income and i doubt there is many farms worth sub 1 milluon that can generate enough profit to sustain a family a very good friend of mines parents run a sheep farm with a herd of upto 1000 at peak times all land and farm owned outright and he told me if they made 50k profit in a year its been a very very good year that farm will be in the value of around 4 - 5 million easily
Tbh, if your friend has a farm worth 5 million and only makes 50K then he is obviously a crap farmer 50k profit probably 500k theres no money in farming other than subsidiaries and diversity with shops and merch ect trust me i know a little bit about farming
Why hasn’t your mate benefitted from Brexit and 14 years of Tory governments? "ill ask him and maybe mention that he should vote reform???? | |||
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"so one or two people will begin to pay a little bit of tax now .... no fucks given
It’s just project fear from the right ring press, hardly any farmers will be affected and , it’s faux outrage im sorry but you're talking shite, to be classed as a FARMER it has to be your sole income and i doubt there is many farms worth sub 1 milluon that can generate enough profit to sustain a family a very good friend of mines parents run a sheep farm with a herd of upto 1000 at peak times all land and farm owned outright and he told me if they made 50k profit in a year its been a very very good year that farm will be in the value of around 4 - 5 million easily
Tbh, if your friend has a farm worth 5 million and only makes 50K then he is obviously a crap farmer 50k profit probably 500k theres no money in farming other than subsidiaries and diversity with shops and merch ect trust me i know a little bit about farming
Why hasn’t your mate benefitted from Brexit and 14 years of Tory governments? ill ask him and maybe mention that he should vote reform???? "It’s a relevant question, why is he struggling when we have Brexit and 14 years of Tory governments, he should be making a good living . Voting reform won’t help though, you could join them on the their march for the farmers though, | |||
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"im sorry but you're talking shite, to be classed as a FARMER it has to be your sole income and i doubt there is many farms worth sub 1 milluon that can generate enough profit to sustain a family " garbage 🤣 | |||
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"im sorry but you're talking shite, to be classed as a FARMER it has to be your sole income and i doubt there is many farms worth sub 1 milluon that can generate enough profit to sustain a family garbage 🤣" explain how it is? Then ill give you a breakdown of what i earn on the farm and why i have a carear elsewhere | |||
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"im sorry but you're talking shite, to be classed as a FARMER it has to be your sole income and i doubt there is many farms worth sub 1 milluon that can generate enough profit to sustain a family garbage 🤣explain how it is? Then ill give you a breakdown of what i earn on the farm and why i have a carear elsewhere " so you're not a farmer then 🤣 | |||
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"Farmers always play the victim .. they are getting the first million tax free and half the tax rate on the balance paid over 10 years ... what more do they bloody want .they are getting off light compared to everyone else " if they're married then they pass on thier allowance to their spouse .... so it's 2 million in reality | |||
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"Farmers always play the victim .. they are getting the first million tax free and half the tax rate on the balance paid over 10 years ... what more do they bloody want .they are getting off light compared to everyone else if they're married then they pass on thier allowance to their spouse .... so it's 2 million in reality" genuine question here do you pay and kind of inheritance or capital gains ect if you inherit a business? | |||
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"Farmers always play the victim .. they are getting the first million tax free and half the tax rate on the balance paid over 10 years ... what more do they bloody want .they are getting off light compared to everyone else if they're married then they pass on thier allowance to their spouse .... so it's 2 million in reality genuine question here do you pay and kind of inheritance or capital gains ect if you inherit a business? " if you genuinely don't already know the answer to that question then my advice would be to go ask your lawyer or your tax accountant | |||
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"Farmers always play the victim .. they are getting the first million tax free and half the tax rate on the balance paid over 10 years ... what more do they bloody want .they are getting off light compared to everyone else if they're married then they pass on thier allowance to their spouse .... so it's 2 million in reality genuine question here do you pay and kind of inheritance or capital gains ect if you inherit a business? if you genuinely don't already know the answer to that question then my advice would be to go ask your lawyer or your tax accountant" great advice👍 | |||
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"Farmers always play the victim .. they are getting the first million tax free and half the tax rate on the balance paid over 10 years ... what more do they bloody want .they are getting off light compared to everyone else if they're married then they pass on thier allowance to their spouse .... so it's 2 million in reality genuine question here do you pay and kind of inheritance or capital gains ect if you inherit a business? if you genuinely don't already know the answer to that question then my advice would be to go ask your lawyer or your tax accountantgreat advice👍" what u meant were register as a limited company and make sure the shares have been transfered over long enough before 👌 | |||
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"genuine question here do you pay and kind of inheritance or capital gains ect if you inherit a business? " No. But you can't inherit a business. You can be appointed as a director of the business, which means that you get to control all of its assets, but you don't own them. If you sell some of the company assets and get the company to give you the money, you'll pay tax on that. | |||
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"genuine question here do you pay and kind of inheritance or capital gains ect if you inherit a business? No. But you can't inherit a business. You can be appointed as a director of the business, which means that you get to control all of its assets, but you don't own them. If you sell some of the company assets and get the company to give you the money, you'll pay tax on that." That is incorrect If a company shareholder dies, ownership of their shares may be transferred to whomever inherits them under the wishes and terms of the deceased's will Thereby the beneficiary can inherit the deceased’s share of the business | |||
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"genuine question here do you pay and kind of inheritance or capital gains ect if you inherit a business?" "No. But you can't inherit a business. You can be appointed as a director of the business, which means that you get to control all of its assets, but you don't own them. If you sell some of the company assets and get the company to give you the money, you'll pay tax on that." "That is incorrect If a company shareholder dies, ownership of their shares may be transferred to whomever inherits them under the wishes and terms of the deceased's will Thereby the beneficiary can inherit the deceased’s share of the business" The only shares that could be inherited would be those held personally by someone, and would not be part of the business. Inheriting shares does not mean that you get to run the company. Only directors do that. If we're talking about farmers here, the shares would be a small amount worth not very much at all. It's quite possible for a company to own millions in assets, but to have a share capital of a few hundred pounds. | |||
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"Not sure if I’m misunderstanding what you are trying to say or you don’t understand company structure The shareholders own the company and appoint the directors. So if you inherit shares you inherit a share of the ownership. If you inherit 100% or more than 50% of the shares you then control who is a director so have full control. Directors are just employees with power in the day to day running but can be removed by shareholders. Directors cannot sell assets just to enrich themselves " 100% correct | |||
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"Not sure if I’m misunderstanding what you are trying to say or you don’t understand company structure The shareholders own the company and appoint the directors. So if you inherit shares you inherit a share of the ownership. If you inherit 100% or more than 50% of the shares you then control who is a director so have full control. Directors are just employees with power in the day to day running but can be removed by shareholders. Directors cannot sell assets just to enrich themselves" That's it. In the case of farmers, the company would own the land and all the equipment, and the farmer would own the shares. When the farmer dies, the shares can be passed on to the firstborn, and they become the new director. Neither the father nor the child own any of the assets worth money, they just own the shares. And the shares can be made to be almost worthless on paper, so they attract no tax on inheritance. | |||
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"genuine question here do you pay and kind of inheritance or capital gains ect if you inherit a business? No. But you can't inherit a business. You can be appointed as a director of the business, which means that you get to control all of its assets, but you don't own them. If you sell some of the company assets and get the company to give you the money, you'll pay tax on that. That is incorrect If a company shareholder dies, ownership of their shares may be transferred to whomever inherits them under the wishes and terms of the deceased's will Thereby the beneficiary can inherit the deceased’s share of the business The only shares that could be inherited would be those held personally by someone, and would not be part of the business. Inheriting shares does not mean that you get to run the company. Only directors do that. If we're talking about farmers here, the shares would be a small amount worth not very much at all. It's quite possible for a company to own millions in assets, but to have a share capital of a few hundred pounds." “The only shares that could be inherited would be those held personally by someone, and would not be part of the business.” The shares ARE the business. Either part of or full depending on the number of shares and number of shares inherited. | |||
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"Not sure if I’m misunderstanding what you are trying to say or you don’t understand company structure The shareholders own the company and appoint the directors. So if you inherit shares you inherit a share of the ownership. If you inherit 100% or more than 50% of the shares you then control who is a director so have full control. Directors are just employees with power in the day to day running but can be removed by shareholders. Directors cannot sell assets just to enrich themselves That's it. In the case of farmers, the company would own the land and all the equipment, and the farmer would own the shares. When the farmer dies, the shares can be passed on to the firstborn, and they become the new director. Neither the father nor the child own any of the assets worth money, they just own the shares. And the shares can be made to be almost worthless on paper, so they attract no tax on inheritance." If I leave you my company shares ( I am the sole shareholder) and then die, bequeathing the shares to you You then own the shares, and the whole business. But you are not a director. | |||
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"If I leave you my company shares ( I am the sole shareholder) and then die, bequeathing the shares to you You then own the shares, and the whole business. But you are not a director. " Correct. I then own the business, but not any of the business assets, which are owned by the company. As the sole shareowner, I can appoint myself director, and take control of the company. If your company has a million pounds in cash in a safe somewhere, the company owns that cash while you are alive, and it still owns it when I take over. No asset transfer has taken place, and so no tax is due. While you were alive you owned shares which could have been worth £100. When you die, those shares pass to me, and I pay no tax because an inheritance of £100 is not taxable. | |||
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"Not sure if I’m misunderstanding what you are trying to say or you don’t understand company structure The shareholders own the company and appoint the directors. So if you inherit shares you inherit a share of the ownership. If you inherit 100% or more than 50% of the shares you then control who is a director so have full control. Directors are just employees with power in the day to day running but can be removed by shareholders. Directors cannot sell assets just to enrich themselves That's it. In the case of farmers, the company would own the land and all the equipment, and the farmer would own the shares. When the farmer dies, the shares can be passed on to the firstborn, and they become the new director. Neither the father nor the child own any of the assets worth money, they just own the shares. And the shares can be made to be almost worthless on paper, so they attract no tax on inheritance." The company may not own the land, it is quite common for landowners to lease premises to the company. Many farms operate as tenant farmers. The shares would pass to the person(s) stated as will beneficiaries Directors are appointed by the board of a company, you don’t inherit a directorship | |||
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"If I leave you my company shares ( I am the sole shareholder) and then die, bequeathing the shares to you You then own the shares, and the whole business. But you are not a director. Correct. I then own the business, but not any of the business assets, which are owned by the company. As the sole shareowner, I can appoint myself director, and take control of the company. If your company has a million pounds in cash in a safe somewhere, the company owns that cash while you are alive, and it still owns it when I take over. No asset transfer has taken place, and so no tax is due. While you were alive you owned shares which could have been worth £100. When you die, those shares pass to me, and I pay no tax because an inheritance of £100 is not taxable." Company shares are taxed on their market value on death not their nominal value. | |||
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"Company shares are taxed on their market value on death not their nominal value." But if those shares aren't on the market, it's not possible to come up with a market value. Shares owned by me which I'm definitely not going to sell are worth nothing more than their nominal value. | |||
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"great advice👍" as proved by the ensuing argument among the fab experts | |||
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"great advice👍 as proved by the ensuing argument among the fab experts "still waiting on your explaning of a sub 1mill farm income?? | |||
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"Company shares are taxed on their market value on death not their nominal value. But if those shares aren't on the market, it's not possible to come up with a market value. Shares owned by me which I'm definitely not going to sell are worth nothing more than their nominal value." So your view is that on your death, if you own a company with £100 shares face value, and that company has, say, £10 million of assets, HMRC assumes the value of your shares to be £100? | |||
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"Just been talking to a friend of mine who is a farmer in Derbyshire. I shall leave you with his quote to me... "Starmer's ass is grass. And the farmers are goin-a-mowing" " 😂😂👌👌👌 | |||
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"so one or two people will begin to pay a little bit of tax now .... no fucks given
It’s just project fear from the right ring press, hardly any farmers will be affected and , it’s faux outrage im sorry but you're talking shite, to be classed as a FARMER it has to be your sole income and i doubt there is many farms worth sub 1 milluon that can generate enough profit to sustain a family a very good friend of mines parents run a sheep farm with a herd of upto 1000 at peak times all land and farm owned outright and he told me if they made 50k profit in a year its been a very very good year that farm will be in the value of around 4 - 5 million easily
Tbh, if your friend has a farm worth 5 million and only makes 50K then he is obviously a crap farmer "I was assuming that the 50K was sheer profit and the normal accounting of the business includes enjoying a comfortable standard of living. | |||
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"Company shares are taxed on their market value on death not their nominal value." "But if those shares aren't on the market, it's not possible to come up with a market value. Shares owned by me which I'm definitely not going to sell are worth nothing more than their nominal value." "So your view is that on your death, if you own a company with £100 shares face value, and that company has, say, £10 million of assets, HMRC assumes the value of your shares to be £100?" HMRC won't assume, you have to tell them, and they'd be suspicious of such a large disparity if they found out, but basically, yes. | |||
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"Company shares are taxed on their market value on death not their nominal value. But if those shares aren't on the market, it's not possible to come up with a market value. Shares owned by me which I'm definitely not going to sell are worth nothing more than their nominal value." A P&L gives the trading position of a company and a Balance Sheet reflects it's commercial value. I'm struggling to see this company valuation argument, farm or otherwise. Why are farming assets like land, machinery, livestock any different from a company making socks? | |||
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"Company shares are taxed on their market value on death not their nominal value. But if those shares aren't on the market, it's not possible to come up with a market value. Shares owned by me which I'm definitely not going to sell are worth nothing more than their nominal value. So your view is that on your death, if you own a company with £100 shares face value, and that company has, say, £10 million of assets, HMRC assumes the value of your shares to be £100? HMRC won't assume, you have to tell them, and they'd be suspicious of such a large disparity if they found out, but basically, yes." This from HMRC’s website: “For shares in a private company, you should use the open market value of the shares. You may need to contact the company’s secretary or accountant to get this value. Do not include just the face value of the shares for your valuation unless it accurately reflects the open market value. For example, the face value for 1,000 £1 ordinary shares is £1,000, but this is unlikely to be the market value of the shares. As there’s no active open market for most unlisted shares, you should look at information normally available to shareholders such as the company’s accounts and performance status and consider: the value of the company’s assets the economic background when the person died the size of the shareholding and the shareholders’ rights the company’s dividend policy”. Maybe there are lots of reliefs available. I’m not an accountant so have no idea. | |||
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"We don’t know yet how many farms will need to be split to pay the increased iht from April 2026, when the full 100% relief from inheritance tax will be restricted to the first £1 million of combined agricultural and business property. Above this amount, landowners will pay inheritance tax at a reduced rate of 20%, rather than the standard 40%. (HMRC 5 Nov 2024) What we do know is HMRC will collect 20% of farm assets over £1m on owners death. It still seems reasonable, being half the iht payable on non farming estates. Landowners can use the unlimited seven year PET to avoid IHT." Going forward 7 year gifting will protect most. The biggest problem are those already in 80’s and 90’s who may not have 7 years. After that death tax will only hit those who loose a family’s member of working age, an obnoxious hit on families at a time of grief. We want to see not only a reversal of this policy by no death taxes for all!! Tax incomes in life not assets in death. | |||
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"Company shares are taxed on their market value on death not their nominal value. But if those shares aren't on the market, it's not possible to come up with a market value. Shares owned by me which I'm definitely not going to sell are worth nothing more than their nominal value. A P&L gives the trading position of a company and a Balance Sheet reflects it's commercial value. I'm struggling to see this company valuation argument, farm or otherwise. Why are farming assets like land, machinery, livestock any different from a company making socks?" Company values are most often calculated on a multiplier of revenue generated. Land values have become vastly detached from farm revenues. Even the top 1% of farmers struggle to see a return of more than 1% on asset value. But we don’t want to be a special case, no family should be hit with death taxes. | |||
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"Company shares are taxed on their market value on death not their nominal value. But if those shares aren't on the market, it's not possible to come up with a market value. Shares owned by me which I'm definitely not going to sell are worth nothing more than their nominal value." In such cases valuation is usually based on a multiple of the business revenue in previous years. | |||
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"Farmers always play the victim .. they are getting the first million tax free and half the tax rate on the balance paid over 10 years ... what more do they bloody want .they are getting off light compared to everyone else if they're married then they pass on thier allowance to their spouse .... so it's 2 million in reality" Reeves said that but then the treasury said that wasn’t the case…. So who wrote her budget? 2 million does not cover an economically viable family farm when land market value is currently more than 5 times its value as a commercial asset. If my surviving parent lives beyond April 2026 it will create a death tax bill of £300,000. The business can not find a spare £30,000 per year, that money simply doesn’t exist and that £30k will need to be found after income and national insurance taxes. No family should be crippled with death taxes on top of grief, most do not pay any, even very very wealthy families. No death taxes for all! | |||
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"It's a covert plan by the Socialists to break-up farms and take them into state ownership. The fact that the approach has been an unmitigated disaster everywhere it's been tried doesn't seem to bother them. It means our children's children will be faced with woefully inefficient agriculture and empty bellies. Is there any news from this plane of existence? You missed the Budget? Changes to IHT and other additional costs on farmers that mean family farms will be broken up. Who are the "socialists" in this? The inestimable SKS and his bevy of ladies. He's a self-proclaimed Socialist you know. Ah okay. So fictional socialists. Carry on. " Exactly!!!!! | |||
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"Farmers always play the victim .. they are getting the first million tax free and half the tax rate on the balance paid over 10 years ... what more do they bloody want .they are getting off light compared to everyone else " What’s different is when inherited, farms are not money they are land, land that has a market value 5 times its economical business value. How can I afford to pay 20% tax on an asset that generates less than 1% of its value each year… even without any interest servicing the death tax would take 100% of the income for 20 years! These death tax changes will hit not the minority but the majority of family farms, it will push many out of business. The land will ultimately end up in the hands of a handful of foreign owned mega corporations and in none productive charities, entities that pay no death taxes. The changes will also kill many none farming businesses. No death taxes for all. | |||
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"Farmers always play the victim .. they are getting the first million tax free and half the tax rate on the balance paid over 10 years ... what more do they bloody want .they are getting off light compared to everyone else if they're married then they pass on thier allowance to their spouse .... so it's 2 million in realitygenuine question here do you pay and kind of inheritance or capital gains ect if you inherit a business? " Farmers had APR businesses had BPR, both now will be limited to £1million. It’s not just a hit to farmers but it is much easier to pay 40% on an inherited business asset that generates 10% on asset value than 20% on an asset that generates less than 1% on the asset value. I will be in London to demand no death taxes for all families. | |||
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"Company shares are taxed on their market value on death not their nominal value. But if those shares aren't on the market, it's not possible to come up with a market value. Shares owned by me which I'm definitely not going to sell are worth nothing more than their nominal value. A P&L gives the trading position of a company and a Balance Sheet reflects it's commercial value. I'm struggling to see this company valuation argument, farm or otherwise. Why are farming assets like land, machinery, livestock any different from a company making socks? Company values are most often calculated on a multiplier of revenue generated. Land values have become vastly detached from farm revenues. Even the top 1% of farmers struggle to see a return of more than 1% on asset value. But we don’t want to be a special case, no family should be hit with death taxes. " What you describe is 'rule of thumb' valuation for the purpose of stock trading. An actuarial valuation would rely on a Balance Sheet. | |||
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"For all you people that think food can be imported at a cheaper price..and that UK farming is irrelevant and so what if we loose the family farms..I suggest you Google and read about..1816 the year with no summer..and just remember there are no more reserves of food ..as there were in the 80's and 90's.. no grain mountains, no sheds full of milk powder etc etc.. it's all just in time deliveries by supermarkets.. Just maybe it would be great to work for state run farms..37hour week, no need to get up in the night to check the cows calving.. no more cold fresh born lambs being nursed back to health in the kitchen.. the corn needs harvesting..it's a beautiful dry weekend...I'm off...leave it till Monday, whatever the weather... These are the reasons why family farms manage to just about keep going..nationalise it and it would need at least 3 people to do the work of one! And then they won't give a dam!" Whilst I really do have sympathy for farmers they have been virtually nationalised for decades through generous subsidies. Most small to medium size farms would not exist on purely economic grounds had they been forced to live with market forces. The issue in this country is firstly supermarkets crushing down farm gate prices but secondly that very low price expectation being encouraged by consumers. We import £2 t-shirts because with think it’s a bargain. We are then oblivious to the closure if UK clothing factories. Subsidy for clothing producers perhaps? Yes I know we need food but we also needed electricity but destroyed coal mining in this country in favour of cheap imports. If wages had kept up inflation and this country’s growth, we would all have been able to pay more for all foodstuffs and t shirts. Sadly all shades of our governments preferred to support the likes of China etc. to keep the less well off happy. And wages low. | |||
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"Starmer has pissed off the Farmers big time. Adding to the list of people who think he's a fuckwit. Again Farmers treated like fodder." Many estates are being bought over by wealthy individuals many who live abroad A Scottish Land Commission report found that nearly half of Highland estate sales went to absentee owners, and nearly two-thirds of sales were carried out privately A good mate of mine manages a huge Scottish estate with thousands of acres but he never has full say, he is basically a tenant living on, and working the estate | |||
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"Starmer has pissed off the Farmers big time. Adding to the list of people who think he's a fuckwit. Again Farmers treated like fodder. Many estates are being bought over by wealthy individuals many who live abroad A Scottish Land Commission report found that nearly half of Highland estate sales went to absentee owners, and nearly two-thirds of sales were carried out privately A good mate of mine manages a huge Scottish estate with thousands of acres but he never has full say, he is basically a tenant living on, and working the estate " Sites for new housing (1.5 million homes over next five years) require an environmental BNG assessment. To replace the lost habitats of wildlife on green field sites. the developer must provide a replacement site with minimum 10% biodiversity net gain. This can prove to be a lucrative 30 year investment scheme for landowners, extra credits/money for rewilding, tree planting, planting pollinators, existing and new waterways. Add the tax advantages of woodland ownership and tax free income from forestry. | |||
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"For all you people that think food can be imported at a cheaper price..and that UK farming is irrelevant and so what if we loose the family farms..I suggest you Google and read about..1816 the year with no summer..and just remember there are no more reserves of food ..as there were in the 80's and 90's.. no grain mountains, no sheds full of milk powder etc etc.. it's all just in time deliveries by supermarkets.. Just maybe it would be great to work for state run farms..37hour week, no need to get up in the night to check the cows calving.. no more cold fresh born lambs being nursed back to health in the kitchen.. the corn needs harvesting..it's a beautiful dry weekend...I'm off...leave it till Monday, whatever the weather... These are the reasons why family farms manage to just about keep going..nationalise it and it would need at least 3 people to do the work of one! And then they won't give a dam! Whilst I really do have sympathy for farmers they have been virtually nationalised for decades through generous subsidies. Most small to medium size farms would not exist on purely economic grounds had they been forced to live with market forces. The issue in this country is firstly supermarkets crushing down farm gate prices but secondly that very low price expectation being encouraged by consumers. We import £2 t-shirts because with think it’s a bargain. We are then oblivious to the closure if UK clothing factories. Subsidy for clothing producers perhaps? Yes I know we need food but we also needed electricity but destroyed coal mining in this country in favour of cheap imports. If wages had kept up inflation and this country’s growth, we would all have been able to pay more for all foodstuffs and t shirts. Sadly all shades of our governments preferred to support the likes of China etc. to keep the less well off happy. And wages low. " Most farms in the western world are subsidised one way or another, left only to economic forces we would produce little food in the west but use our relative buying power to leave the rest of the world starving… | |||
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"For all you people that think food can be imported at a cheaper price..and that UK farming is irrelevant and so what if we loose the family farms..I suggest you Google and read about..1816 the year with no summer..and just remember there are no more reserves of food ..as there were in the 80's and 90's.. no grain mountains, no sheds full of milk powder etc etc.. it's all just in time deliveries by supermarkets.. Just maybe it would be great to work for state run farms..37hour week, no need to get up in the night to check the cows calving.. no more cold fresh born lambs being nursed back to health in the kitchen.. the corn needs harvesting..it's a beautiful dry weekend...I'm off...leave it till Monday, whatever the weather... These are the reasons why family farms manage to just about keep going..nationalise it and it would need at least 3 people to do the work of one! And then they won't give a dam! Whilst I really do have sympathy for farmers they have been virtually nationalised for decades through generous subsidies. Most small to medium size farms would not exist on purely economic grounds had they been forced to live with market forces. The issue in this country is firstly supermarkets crushing down farm gate prices but secondly that very low price expectation being encouraged by consumers. We import £2 t-shirts because with think it’s a bargain. We are then oblivious to the closure if UK clothing factories. Subsidy for clothing producers perhaps? Yes I know we need food but we also needed electricity but destroyed coal mining in this country in favour of cheap imports. If wages had kept up inflation and this country’s growth, we would all have been able to pay more for all foodstuffs and t shirts. Sadly all shades of our governments preferred to support the likes of China etc. to keep the less well off happy. And wages low. Most farms in the western world are subsidised one way or another, left only to economic forces we would produce little food in the west but use our relative buying power to leave the rest of the world starving…" When people are starving it's usually war, drought or corruption, nothing to do the West. In fact the West invariably sorts out the mess. | |||
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"It's a covert plan by the Socialists to break-up farms and take them into state ownership. The fact that the approach has been an unmitigated disaster everywhere it's been tried doesn't seem to bother them. It means our children's children will be faced with woefully inefficient agriculture and empty bellies." 🤣🤣🤣 priceless!!!🤣🤣🤣🤣 | |||
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"It's a covert plan by the Socialists to break-up farms and take them into state ownership. The fact that the approach has been an unmitigated disaster everywhere it's been tried doesn't seem to bother them. It means our children's children will be faced with woefully inefficient agriculture and empty bellies. 🤣🤣🤣 priceless!!!🤣🤣🤣🤣" We'll see. Why else break-up farms? It's socialist green-eyed envy i.e. dogma, with no benefits to the electorate - in fact the opposite. | |||
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"It's a covert plan by the Socialists to break-up farms and take them into state ownership. The fact that the approach has been an unmitigated disaster everywhere it's been tried doesn't seem to bother them. It means our children's children will be faced with woefully inefficient agriculture and empty bellies. 🤣🤣🤣 priceless!!!🤣🤣🤣🤣 We'll see. Why else break-up farms? It's socialist green-eyed envy i.e. dogma, with no benefits to the electorate - in fact the opposite." step away from the 4chan subreddits 🤣🤣🤣🤣 | |||
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"It's a covert plan by the Socialists to break-up farms and take them into state ownership. The fact that the approach has been an unmitigated disaster everywhere it's been tried doesn't seem to bother them. It means our children's children will be faced with woefully inefficient agriculture and empty bellies. 🤣🤣🤣 priceless!!!🤣🤣🤣🤣 We'll see. Why else break-up farms? It's socialist green-eyed envy i.e. dogma, with no benefits to the electorate - in fact the opposite. step away from the 4chan subreddits 🤣🤣🤣🤣 " Well you might know about that, but I doubt hard-working farmers have time for that stuff. Anyway, they're heading to Westminster, so that will be 'real' enough for you. | |||
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"It's a covert plan by the Socialists to break-up farms and take them into state ownership. The fact that the approach has been an unmitigated disaster everywhere it's been tried doesn't seem to bother them. It means our children's children will be faced with woefully inefficient agriculture and empty bellies. 🤣🤣🤣 priceless!!!🤣🤣🤣🤣 We'll see. Why else break-up farms? It's socialist green-eyed envy i.e. dogma, with no benefits to the electorate - in fact the opposite. step away from the 4chan subreddits 🤣🤣🤣🤣 Well you might know about that, but I doubt hard-working farmers have time for that stuff. Anyway, they're heading to Westminster, so that will be 'real' enough for you." hard up farmers have time for a jolly round london though hey | |||
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"It's a covert plan by the Socialists to break-up farms and take them into state ownership. The fact that the approach has been an unmitigated disaster everywhere it's been tried doesn't seem to bother them. It means our children's children will be faced with woefully inefficient agriculture and empty bellies. 🤣🤣🤣 priceless!!!🤣🤣🤣🤣 We'll see. Why else break-up farms? It's socialist green-eyed envy i.e. dogma, with no benefits to the electorate - in fact the opposite. step away from the 4chan subreddits 🤣🤣🤣🤣 Well you might know about that, but I doubt hard-working farmers have time for that stuff. Anyway, they're heading to Westminster, so that will be 'real' enough for you. hard up farmers have time for a jolly round london though hey "Whatever. Suggest you give it a try sometime see how long you last  | |||
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"It's a covert plan by the Socialists to break-up farms and take them into state ownership. The fact that the approach has been an unmitigated disaster everywhere it's been tried doesn't seem to bother them. It means our children's children will be faced with woefully inefficient agriculture and empty bellies. 🤣🤣🤣 priceless!!!🤣🤣🤣🤣 We'll see. Why else break-up farms? It's socialist green-eyed envy i.e. dogma, with no benefits to the electorate - in fact the opposite. step away from the 4chan subreddits 🤣🤣🤣🤣 Well you might know about that, but I doubt hard-working farmers have time for that stuff. Anyway, they're heading to Westminster, so that will be 'real' enough for you. hard up farmers have time for a jolly round london though hey
Whatever. Suggest you give it a try sometime see how long you last "thanks but i have tried having a jolly round london .... I prefer berlin, bern or barcelona though to be honest .... the people are friendlier | |||
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"It's a covert plan by the Socialists to break-up farms and take them into state ownership. The fact that the approach has been an unmitigated disaster everywhere it's been tried doesn't seem to bother them. It means our children's children will be faced with woefully inefficient agriculture and empty bellies. 🤣🤣🤣 priceless!!!🤣🤣🤣🤣 We'll see. Why else break-up farms? It's socialist green-eyed envy i.e. dogma, with no benefits to the electorate - in fact the opposite. step away from the 4chan subreddits 🤣🤣🤣🤣 Well you might know about that, but I doubt hard-working farmers have time for that stuff. Anyway, they're heading to Westminster, so that will be 'real' enough for you. hard up farmers have time for a jolly round london though hey
Whatever. Suggest you give it a try sometime see how long you last
thanks but i have tried having a jolly round london .... I prefer berlin, bern or barcelona though to be honest .... the people are friendlier "Well travelled eh, sooooo impressed. | |||
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" hard up farmers have time for a jolly round london though hey "Bit like those Jarrow Marchers, they could have been out looking for work instead of walking to London on a jolly, obviously didn’t really need the work though hey | |||
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" hard up farmers have time for a jolly round london though hey
Bit like those Jarrow Marchers, they could have been out looking for work instead of walking to London on a jolly, obviously didn’t really need the work though hey " | |||
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" Simply being on the side of ordinary British working people makes them socialist?" Not sure you noticed the recent budget which will hurt working people through loss of jobs, limited pay rises and increased inflation...unless you're a union member as a lot of these issues will be mitigated. | |||
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"Farmers asked to pay their tax like the rest of us - Shocker. Does it make it easier for the new found farmers society to swallow if they know its being used as a tax dodge, buying farms. It's assets over 1 million and ten years to pay it at a lesser rate than a bus driver pays, that's what I've read." The concern is the impact on working family farms. Farms may need to be sold and broken-up to pay tax bills. Then the land will be bought by wealth 'hobby' farmers like Jeremy Clarkson or large corporations. Why try to change a system that works perfectly well, and feeds us? Remember these are decisions being made by politicians who understand very little of the real world outside their debating chambers. | |||
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"Any tax raised will be wasted, 5000 empty buffer hotel rooms for boat arrivals costs £600k a day, every day. " | |||
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"So if you're 1 of the 500 or so farmers affected would you be happy. No farmer with a family should be taxed by inheritance tax as a matter of principle. The tax is taxing money and assets that have already been taxed. It will have a knock on effect to farmers that lease/rental farmers an could ruin them if the landlord decides to sell of the land to pay the tax. Farmers are doing a very vital job and should be respected which Labour goverment fails on." You do realise everything you just listed affects everyone. Anyone who is renting a home is affected when the Landlord sells it. Everyone pays IHT on money and assets already taxed. As for an exemption because they are doing an important job, how about those working in the NHS, Armed forces, Police officers, Fire & rescue, education, all who have to pay 40% not the 20%. | |||
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"So if you're 1 of the 500 or so farmers affected would you be happy. No farmer with a family should be taxed by inheritance tax as a matter of principle. The tax is taxing money and assets that have already been taxed. It will have a knock on effect to farmers that lease/rental farmers an could ruin them if the landlord decides to sell of the land to pay the tax. Farmers are doing a very vital job and should be respected which Labour goverment fails on. You do realise everything you just listed affects everyone. Anyone who is renting a home is affected when the Landlord sells it. Everyone pays IHT on money and assets already taxed. As for an exemption because they are doing an important job, how about those working in the NHS, Armed forces, Police officers, Fire & rescue, education, all who have to pay 40% not the 20%." Forced breakup of large farms, which is an obvious outcome of this policy, is bad for agriculture efficiency | |||
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"Farmers asked to pay their tax like the rest of us - Shocker. Does it make it easier for the new found farmers society to swallow if they know its being used as a tax dodge, buying farms. It's assets over 1 million and ten years to pay it at a lesser rate than a bus driver pays, that's what I've read. The concern is the impact on working family farms. Farms may need to be sold and broken-up to pay tax bills. Then the land will be bought by wealth 'hobby' farmers like Jeremy Clarkson or large corporations. Why try to change a system that works perfectly well, and feeds us? Remember these are decisions being made by politicians who understand very little of the real world outside their debating chambers." The front bench have zero experience of working in business. So they debate theories and convince themselves they are doing smart things. Same happened in New Zealand, the debating society ended up running the country | |||
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"Each generation will have to sell 20% of the land to pay the iht. As opposed to a 40% hit by inheritance of other asset classes. " Leading to smaller, less efficient farms. The opposite of encouraging growth. | |||
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"Yep and in just over 2 generations the farms assets have halved if they survive it " Effectively, it’s a cap on the size of farm that you are allowed to have. Punishing success. | |||
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"Yep and in just over 2 generations the farms assets have halved if they survive it Effectively, it’s a cap on the size of farm that you are allowed to have. Punishing success. " Yes. But half the tax rate of other assets over the iht threshold | |||
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"Yep and in just over 2 generations the farms assets have halved if they survive it Effectively, it’s a cap on the size of farm that you are allowed to have. Punishing success. Yes. But half the tax rate of other assets over the iht threshold " thats kind of them lol | |||
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"Yep and in just over 2 generations the farms assets have halved if they survive it Effectively, it’s a cap on the size of farm that you are allowed to have. Punishing success. Yes. But half the tax rate of other assets over the iht threshold " Do you understand why? | |||
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"Yep and in just over 2 generations the farms assets have halved if they survive it Effectively, it’s a cap on the size of farm that you are allowed to have. Punishing success. Yes. But half the tax rate of other assets over the iht threshold Do you understand why? " I’m not for nor against this tax grab. The money will be pissed away anyway Why should farmers be entitled to tax free inheritance, over other business successions? | |||
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"As someone who has worked on farms all my life from the age of 10 the one thing everyone needs to understand is in any other industry if you're input go up you put you're prices up to off set the cost Farming is the only industry where we are told how much everything we use costs then we are told how much we are getting paid for our product " I agree. I come from six generations of market gardeners in Devon. Riverford organic growers, check out their accounts on HMRC. £99.5m turnover/ £1.6m post tax profit - 1.6%. And that’s retail organic veg box, far more profitable than the controlled farm gate pricing operated by the supermarkets | |||
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"Yep and in just over 2 generations the farms assets have halved if they survive it Effectively, it’s a cap on the size of farm that you are allowed to have. Punishing success. Yes. But half the tax rate of other assets over the iht threshold Do you understand why? I’m not for nor against this tax grab. The money will be pissed away anyway Why should farmers be entitled to tax free inheritance, over other business successions? " Farms don’t make money. They need help, subsidies etc to keep agriculture in this country afloat, and keep food on our shelves rather than rely completely imports. The IHT break was implemented to allow farms to be passed from one generation to the next, intact, rather than having to sell off part of the farm each time to pay IHT, or split the farm up so that it becomes less competitive. | |||
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"Starmer is now claiming to have worked on a farm once. Before long both he and Reeves will be claiming to be farmers." Hopefully that gets fact checked, the chancellor has recently amended her cv and work experience. | |||
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"Starmer is now claiming to have worked on a farm once. Before long both he and Reeves will be claiming to be farmers." Economic farmers working for the NFU, or in reality they were chuggers collecting for the union  | |||
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"Yep and in just over 2 generations the farms assets have halved if they survive it Effectively, it’s a cap on the size of farm that you are allowed to have. Punishing success. Yes. But half the tax rate of other assets over the iht threshold Do you understand why? I’m not for nor against this tax grab. The money will be pissed away anyway Why should farmers be entitled to tax free inheritance, over other business successions? Farms don’t make money. They need help, subsidies etc to keep agriculture in this country afloat, and keep food on our shelves rather than rely completely imports. The IHT break was implemented to allow farms to be passed from one generation to the next, intact, rather than having to sell off part of the farm each time to pay IHT, or split the farm up so that it becomes less competitive. If a family business was self catering holiday cottages/lodges, quite common down here. On each death/inheritance 40% has to be sold or mortgaged to pay the iht. So that model is not intact for the person inheriting. What about all the pub closures, they don’t make any money either. Hmrc’s own records for 5.6 million businesses; the insolvency rate has edged up, from 49.6 failures per 10,000 businesses in 2022 to 53.7 in 2023. (5 Feb 2024 HMRC) Farmers are not alone " If one of their businesses has to downsize, it doesn’t affect the wider community directly. If farming becomes unviable, our food security is impacted. Thats the difference | |||
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