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Rachel’s black hole

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By *0shadesOfFilth OP   Man
5 weeks ago

nearby

Just over a week to go and daily leaks about tax increases in the coming budget

Pensioners already taken a hit

Pension contribution tax relief and maturing/retiring pension policy tax free cash likely to be impacted (anyone who took out a pension mortgage may be in trouble)

Inheritance tax’s and capital gains for the prudent to be changed (cgt allowance already quartered by tories)

Employers to pay increased national insurance, undoubtedly will fuel inflation or reduce pay rises

Fuel duty, council tax and the other usual targets

First time buyer stamp duty reduction to be withdrawn

Income tax thresholds to be frozen beyond 2028

U turn on binning the Non dom scheme and apparently no capital gains increases on second property.

Entrepreneurs relief and agricultural relief going (sell half the farm to pay death duties)

Does not look like a budget for growth

Will it deliver the funding and improvements for public services ?

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By *otMe66Man
5 weeks ago

Terra Firma

It is an expanding blackhole with the spending labour have / will be doing, but they wont be talking about that, we should all concentrate on the mantra 22 billion blackhole inheritance...

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By *ohnnyTwoNotesMan
5 weeks ago

golden fields


"Just over a week to go and daily leaks about tax increases in the coming budget

Pensioners already taken a hit

Pension contribution tax relief and maturing/retiring pension policy tax free cash likely to be impacted (anyone who took out a pension mortgage may be in trouble)

Inheritance tax’s and capital gains for the prudent to be changed (cgt allowance already quartered by tories)

Employers to pay increased national insurance, undoubtedly will fuel inflation or reduce pay rises

Fuel duty, council tax and the other usual targets

First time buyer stamp duty reduction to be withdrawn

Income tax thresholds to be frozen beyond 2028

U turn on binning the Non dom scheme and apparently no capital gains increases on second property.

Entrepreneurs relief and agricultural relief going (sell half the farm to pay death duties)

Does not look like a budget for growth

Will it deliver the funding and improvements for public services ? "

I don't think this will be anywhere close to being able to deliver funding for improvements for public services.

The country is in so much debt, we're still feeling the impacts of putting up trade barriers with the EU. A global economic upturn that drags us up behind is probably our best hope.

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By *oxychick35Couple
5 weeks ago

thornaby


"Just over a week to go and daily leaks about tax increases in the coming budget

Pensioners already taken a hit

Pension contribution tax relief and maturing/retiring pension policy tax free cash likely to be impacted (anyone who took out a pension mortgage may be in trouble)

Inheritance tax’s and capital gains for the prudent to be changed (cgt allowance already quartered by tories)

Employers to pay increased national insurance, undoubtedly will fuel inflation or reduce pay rises

Fuel duty, council tax and the other usual targets

First time buyer stamp duty reduction to be withdrawn

Income tax thresholds to be frozen beyond 2028

U turn on binning the Non dom scheme and apparently no capital gains increases on second property.

Entrepreneurs relief and agricultural relief going (sell half the farm to pay death duties)

Does not look like a budget for growth

Will it deliver the funding and improvements for public services ?

I don't think this will be anywhere close to being able to deliver funding for improvements for public services.

The country is in so much debt, we're still feeling the impacts of putting up trade barriers with the EU. A global economic upturn that drags us up behind is probably our best hope."

yes don’t mention covid or war in ukrain then lol

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By *ohnnyTwoNotesMan
5 weeks ago

golden fields


"Just over a week to go and daily leaks about tax increases in the coming budget

Pensioners already taken a hit

Pension contribution tax relief and maturing/retiring pension policy tax free cash likely to be impacted (anyone who took out a pension mortgage may be in trouble)

Inheritance tax’s and capital gains for the prudent to be changed (cgt allowance already quartered by tories)

Employers to pay increased national insurance, undoubtedly will fuel inflation or reduce pay rises

Fuel duty, council tax and the other usual targets

First time buyer stamp duty reduction to be withdrawn

Income tax thresholds to be frozen beyond 2028

U turn on binning the Non dom scheme and apparently no capital gains increases on second property.

Entrepreneurs relief and agricultural relief going (sell half the farm to pay death duties)

Does not look like a budget for growth

Will it deliver the funding and improvements for public services ?

I don't think this will be anywhere close to being able to deliver funding for improvements for public services.

The country is in so much debt, we're still feeling the impacts of putting up trade barriers with the EU. A global economic upturn that drags us up behind is probably our best hope.yes don’t mention covid or war in ukrain then lol"

What?

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By *2000ManMan
5 weeks ago

Worthing

They take money from those that cannot fight back and give it to those that can. The unions will be back for more demands next year.

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By *irldnCouple
5 weeks ago

Brighton

“Rachel’s black hole” still makes me chuckle

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By *I TwoCouple
5 weeks ago

PDI 12-26th Nov 24

Seems like they're spreading a load of rumours and shite so that people will be overjoyed when it's only half as bad as it could have been even if they're 100s a year worse off

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By *ohnnyTwoNotesMan
5 weeks ago

golden fields


"They take money from those that cannot fight back and give it to those that can. The unions will be back for more demands next year."

I'm not sure you know what unions are.

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By *wosmilersCouple
5 weeks ago

Heathrowish


"They take money from those that cannot fight back and give it to those that can. The unions will be back for more demands next year.

I'm not sure you know what unions are. "

When Unions are good, they're very, very good.

When they are "Unite", they are corrupted and awful.

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By *mateur100Man
5 weeks ago

nr faversham


"They take money from those that cannot fight back and give it to those that can. The unions will be back for more demands next year.

I'm not sure you know what unions are. "

I'll wager that this time next year the unions will be back for more....if not sooner

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By *ohnnyTwoNotesMan
5 weeks ago

golden fields


"They take money from those that cannot fight back and give it to those that can. The unions will be back for more demands next year.

I'm not sure you know what unions are.

I'll wager that this time next year the unions will be back for more....if not sooner "

For more better working conditions?

Again, the other chap doesn't seem to know what unions are.

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By *mateur100Man
5 weeks ago

nr faversham


"They take money from those that cannot fight back and give it to those that can. The unions will be back for more demands next year.

I'm not sure you know what unions are.

I'll wager that this time next year the unions will be back for more....if not sooner

For more better working conditions?

Again, the other chap doesn't seem to know what unions are."

I think you're going to be disappointed if not surprised when they want more money Johnny boy

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By *eroy1000Man
5 weeks ago

milton keynes

If interested this is an article on the bbc site today regarding a union that may have gone a bit mad with members money.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cn5z54236wgo

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By *ohnnyTwoNotesMan
5 weeks ago

golden fields


"They take money from those that cannot fight back and give it to those that can. The unions will be back for more demands next year.

I'm not sure you know what unions are.

I'll wager that this time next year the unions will be back for more....if not sooner

For more better working conditions?

Again, the other chap doesn't seem to know what unions are.

I think you're going to be disappointed if not surprised when they want more money Johnny boy"

I thought you guys were concerned about the unions donating money to the Labour party. Now you're concerned about them giving money to the unions?

Which is it?

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By *mateur100Man
5 weeks ago

nr faversham


"They take money from those that cannot fight back and give it to those that can. The unions will be back for more demands next year.

I'm not sure you know what unions are.

I'll wager that this time next year the unions will be back for more....if not sooner

For more better working conditions?

Again, the other chap doesn't seem to know what unions are.

I think you're going to be disappointed if not surprised when they want more money Johnny boy

I thought you guys were concerned about the unions donating money to the Labour party. Now you're concerned about them giving money to the unions?

Which is it?"

I'm concerned about unions taking the piss

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By *ohnnyTwoNotesMan
5 weeks ago

golden fields


"They take money from those that cannot fight back and give it to those that can. The unions will be back for more demands next year.

I'm not sure you know what unions are.

I'll wager that this time next year the unions will be back for more....if not sooner

For more better working conditions?

Again, the other chap doesn't seem to know what unions are.

I think you're going to be disappointed if not surprised when they want more money Johnny boy

I thought you guys were concerned about the unions donating money to the Labour party. Now you're concerned about them giving money to the unions?

Which is it?

I'm concerned about unions taking the piss"

By fighting for better conditions for workers?

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By *mateur100Man
5 weeks ago

nr faversham


"They take money from those that cannot fight back and give it to those that can. The unions will be back for more demands next year.

I'm not sure you know what unions are.

I'll wager that this time next year the unions will be back for more....if not sooner

For more better working conditions?

Again, the other chap doesn't seem to know what unions are.

I think you're going to be disappointed if not surprised when they want more money Johnny boy

I thought you guys were concerned about the unions donating money to the Labour party. Now you're concerned about them giving money to the unions?

Which is it?

I'm concerned about unions taking the piss

By fighting for better conditions for workers?"

No, for arguing for ridiculous pay and benefits

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By *ohnnyTwoNotesMan
5 weeks ago

golden fields


"They take money from those that cannot fight back and give it to those that can. The unions will be back for more demands next year.

I'm not sure you know what unions are.

I'll wager that this time next year the unions will be back for more....if not sooner

For more better working conditions?

Again, the other chap doesn't seem to know what unions are.

I think you're going to be disappointed if not surprised when they want more money Johnny boy

I thought you guys were concerned about the unions donating money to the Labour party. Now you're concerned about them giving money to the unions?

Which is it?

I'm concerned about unions taking the piss

By fighting for better conditions for workers?

No, for arguing for ridiculous pay and benefits"

I think your argument is with the chap I originally replied to.

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By *eoBloomsMan
5 weeks ago

Springfield

I'm sure there's a great porno called Rachel's Black Hole.

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By *ovebjsMan
5 weeks ago

Bristol


"If interested this is an article on the bbc site today regarding a union that may have gone a bit mad with members money.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cn5z54236wgo"

This is what the sociologists do 👍 squander other people’s money on vanity projects and live on expenses from the union coffers 👍

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By *0shadesOfFilth OP   Man
4 weeks ago

nearby

The UK tax gap in 2022 to 2023 was estimated to be 4.8% of total theoretical tax liabilities, or £39.8 billion in absolute terms, which means HMRC collected 95.2% of all tax due. (HMRC own figs). No figs for 23/24 but plenty of evidence this has been going on for a long time and not a new phenomenon

Starmer and Reeves are missing this from their narrative, there’s enough uncollected tax to fill two of Rachels black holes every year.

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By *WC 101Man
4 weeks ago

Aberdeen

Going to be interesting and to be honest the whole thing is a mess, regardless of who’s in charge:

Everyone believes in fairer working conditions & pay ……. Until a contribution comes out of their own pocket and penalised them.

The Unions aggressively go after unreasonable starting positions. I don’t dispute certain jobs and industries morally deserve pay increases ….. but if theirs not enough to go round what are you meant to do ? A rise for one creates a ripple effect and is used as a battering ran for the other sectors and is unsustainable.

As for capital gains, I own my own business, employ others and during the pandemic deferred salary so others could take theirs to keep a roof over their head and the family fed. I carry all the risk of finding new clients and generating sales, covering increased business overheads and the general stress of running a business with very little downtime or holidays where you can switch off and enjoy family time.

To take all this on and potentially give near enough half of it away if I’m fortunate enough to sell it down the line is utter madness. I’d be as well going to be a staff member of a large company or a PLC and just sleep easy at night.

It will be the middle income and SME’s that bear the brunt of this budget. The Governmebt can’t take on the super powers as they’ll kick it down the road or just relocate out of the UK altogether. So it’s the easy grab route.

This is going to kill UK business in the long term. And then in 5 years time they’ll put some tax breaks in to show they’re back helping the voters in time for the next electiion.

Career politicians who are only interested in protecting themselves. On all sides.

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By *0shadesOfFilth OP   Man
4 weeks ago

nearby


"Going to be interesting and to be honest the whole thing is a mess, regardless of who’s in charge:

Everyone believes in fairer working conditions & pay ……. Until a contribution comes out of their own pocket and penalised them.

The Unions aggressively go after unreasonable starting positions. I don’t dispute certain jobs and industries morally deserve pay increases ….. but if theirs not enough to go round what are you meant to do ? A rise for one creates a ripple effect and is used as a battering ran for the other sectors and is unsustainable.

As for capital gains, I own my own business, employ others and during the pandemic deferred salary so others could take theirs to keep a roof over their head and the family fed. I carry all the risk of finding new clients and generating sales, covering increased business overheads and the general stress of running a business with very little downtime or holidays where you can switch off and enjoy family time.

To take all this on and potentially give near enough half of it away if I’m fortunate enough to sell it down the line is utter madness. I’d be as well going to be a staff member of a large company or a PLC and just sleep easy at night.

It will be the middle income and SME’s that bear the brunt of this budget. The Governmebt can’t take on the super powers as they’ll kick it down the road or just relocate out of the UK altogether. So it’s the easy grab route.

This is going to kill UK business in the long term. And then in 5 years time they’ll put some tax breaks in to show they’re back helping the voters in time for the next electiion.

Career politicians who are only interested in protecting themselves. On all sides."

Reported or leaked, employer NIC will increase by up to 2%. (To 15.8%) and the threshold lowered.

Add 3% employer contribution to workplace pension.

In real terms could soon be 20% cost to employ

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By *illowendMan
4 weeks ago

Southwold

Unions eh

Defending the working class whist the conservatives millionaires filled their boots for 14 years

How easy do the ruling class groom people 🤡🤡


"They take money from those that cannot fight back and give it to those that can. The unions will be back for more demands next year.

I'm not sure you know what unions are.

I'll wager that this time next year the unions will be back for more....if not sooner "

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By *CExeCouple
4 weeks ago

Lincoln/Exeter


"Unions eh

Defending the working class whist the conservatives millionaires filled their boots for 14 years

How easy do the ruling class groom people 🤡🤡

They take money from those that cannot fight back and give it to those that can. The unions will be back for more demands next year.

I'm not sure you know what unions are.

I'll wager that this time next year the unions will be back for more....if not sooner "

Pretty sure the United boss's chums have filled their boots with this hotel scandal. Potentially to the tune of £80,000,000 plus. Not to mention the train drivers etc now earning £70k pa with a £300 bonus if they work a 5 day week... The unions are corrupt and I've always avoided them were possible. Maybe I'm biased since my father was attacked with an Iron bar by a Union member in the 70s for daring to want to do his job. Not sure how that behaviour improves workers rights.

Rant over

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By *irldnCouple
4 weeks ago

Brighton

Reeves £22bn black hole NOT confirmed by OBR…

“The Budget watchdog has confirmed that the last government “did not provide” them with all available information at the last budget but has not repeated the Government’s £22 billion black hole claim.

The Office for Budget Responsibility (OBR) has uncovered £9.5 billion in spending pressures that it was not made aware of ahead of Jeremy Hunt’s fiscal statement in March, and has said that its judgment on spending would have been “materially different” had it had access to this information.

Rachel Reeves’ Budget on Wednesday afternoon sought to address what ministers have called the “£22 billion black hole” in the public finances, however, the OBR’s chairman has said that the  Government’s additions to the spending plans this year represent a combination of their own policies and bridging that £9.5 billion gap.”

So that is completely disingenuous of Reeves and Labour!

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By *emma StonesTV/TS
4 weeks ago

Crewe

Did they include the cost of compensation for the contaminated blood scandal and also the post office owners ?. I also believe they didn’t even budget for the independent pay board recommendations.

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By *irldnCouple
4 weeks ago

Brighton


"Did they include the cost of compensation for the contaminated blood scandal and also the post office owners ?. I also believe they didn’t even budget for the independent pay board recommendations."

Not sure those are part of the £22bn as that has always been claimed to be an in year shortfall for FY24/25. The blood compensation is for beyond that period isn’t it?

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By *emma StonesTV/TS
4 weeks ago

Crewe


"Did they include the cost of compensation for the contaminated blood scandal and also the post office owners ?. I also believe they didn’t even budget for the independent pay board recommendations.

Not sure those are part of the £22bn as that has always been claimed to be an in year shortfall for FY24/25. The blood compensation is for beyond that period isn’t it?"

Not sure, it’s above my pay scale

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By *immyinreadingMan
4 weeks ago

henley on thames


"Did they include the cost of compensation for the contaminated blood scandal and also the post office owners ?. I also believe they didn’t even budget for the independent pay board recommendations.

Not sure those are part of the £22bn as that has always been claimed to be an in year shortfall for FY24/25. The blood compensation is for beyond that period isn’t it?"

The 22bn figure was a fabrication. We knew this from day 1, and now have proof.

People fell for the manifesto lies and half-truths. And the same people wanted to believe the 22bn figure.

Yesterday I met several people who admitted feeling very silly for being taken in by these lies

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By *idnight RamblerMan
4 weeks ago

Pershore


"Reeves £22bn black hole NOT confirmed by OBR…

“The Budget watchdog has confirmed that the last government “did not provide” them with all available information at the last budget but has not repeated the Government’s £22 billion black hole claim.

The Office for Budget Responsibility (OBR) has uncovered £9.5 billion in spending pressures that it was not made aware of ahead of Jeremy Hunt’s fiscal statement in March, and has said that its judgment on spending would have been “materially different” had it had access to this information.

Rachel Reeves’ Budget on Wednesday afternoon sought to address what ministers have called the “£22 billion black hole” in the public finances, however, the OBR’s chairman has said that the  Government’s additions to the spending plans this year represent a combination of their own policies and bridging that £9.5 billion gap.”

So that is completely disingenuous of Reeves and Labour!"

Didn't the OBR say that the Tories had not revealed £9.5bn of spending in departments’ budgets in 2024-5? So they admitted there was a shortfall in the numbers announced yesterday. I think Reeves covered that in her preamble.

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By *ovebjsMan
4 weeks ago

Bristol


"Reeves £22bn black hole NOT confirmed by OBR…

“The Budget watchdog has confirmed that the last government “did not provide” them with all available information at the last budget but has not repeated the Government’s £22 billion black hole claim.

The Office for Budget Responsibility (OBR) has uncovered £9.5 billion in spending pressures that it was not made aware of ahead of Jeremy Hunt’s fiscal statement in March, and has said that its judgment on spending would have been “materially different” had it had access to this information.

Rachel Reeves’ Budget on Wednesday afternoon sought to address what ministers have called the “£22 billion black hole” in the public finances, however, the OBR’s chairman has said that the  Government’s additions to the spending plans this year represent a combination of their own policies and bridging that £9.5 billion gap.”

So that is completely disingenuous of Reeves and Labour!

Didn't the OBR say that the Tories had not revealed £9.5bn of spending in departments’ budgets in 2024-5? So they admitted there was a shortfall in the numbers announced yesterday. I think Reeves covered that in her preamble."

The OBR refused to backup or confirm the so called 22 billion black hole

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By *irldnCouple
4 weeks ago

Brighton

My lay person interpretation is:

1. Tories left an actual £9.5bn black hole in the FY24/25 accounts (doesn’t that figure correspond with the drop in employee NIC the Tories introduced?)

2. The Labour “£22bn black hole” includes this £9.5bn but it ALSO includes items Labour wanted to enact. Presumably this includes some/all of the public sector pay awards?

Now where this then gets complicated, and possibly also disingenuous on the part of the Tories is the question…

Q1. Would the Tories have agreed pay rises for the public sector? Clearly the answer is “yes eventually”.

Which means the second question is:

Q2. How much of a pay rise would the Tories have agreed to?

Now some will argue it would have been less than Labour have agreed but the reality is we will never know (and there is also the issue of cost to economy over strike action).

But one thing is certain, I would argue, that the black hole would have been more than £9.5bn as pay rises were inevitable eventually.

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By *0shadesOfFilth OP   Man
4 weeks ago

nearby

Thought the budget was fair and well balanced

Whether it will actually deliver to public services we will have to wait.

Rayner will need a minimum of £60bn to build her 300,000 council houses

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