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"Guardian “Doubts grow over Labour’s VAT plan for private schools The Treasury refuses to confirm 1 January start date as unions, tax experts and school leaders say it is unworkable” " Oh no, not another Labour policy that hasn't been thought-through and analysed? I suppose they only had 14 years to formulate their plans. | |||
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"Guardian “Doubts grow over Labour’s VAT plan for private schools The Treasury refuses to confirm 1 January start date as unions, tax experts and school leaders say it is unworkable” Problem is that as with the non Dom change, they have already promised the money they said it would raise to other things. So they now have to find an alternative to raise the money or go back on the promises. Apparently the impending VAT change has already affected admissions and next year likely to be worse. Oh no, not another Labour policy that hasn't been thought-through and analysed? I suppose they only had 14 years to formulate their plans." | |||
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"In 2023, Bridget Phillipson, then shadow secretary of state for education, said that charging VAT on independent school fees and imposing business rates would raise £1.7bn. In a parliamentary debate in February 2024, Helen Hayes, then shadow minister for education, said the VAT measure would raise £1.3bn. Like the pensioner winter fuel grab ((£1.5bn). Relatively small amounts to be raised, when Labour just announced £22bn spend on carbon capture. " Are your figures per annum? Including starting from this fiscal year? | |||
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"What people have focused on is an image of Eton, Harrow and wealth. Not one mention of the privately run special educational needs schools, is that because it is not so easy to attack with envy?" And faith schools. And SEN pupils without a local authority plan. And people on bursaries. | |||
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"What people have focused on is an image of Eton, Harrow and wealth. Not one mention of the privately run special educational needs schools, is that because it is not so easy to attack with envy? And faith schools. And SEN pupils without a local authority plan. And people on bursaries." All eyes on Eton please  | |||
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"What people have focused on is an image of Eton, Harrow and wealth. Not one mention of the privately run special educational needs schools, is that because it is not so easy to attack with envy? And faith schools. And SEN pupils without a local authority plan. And people on bursaries. All eyes on Eton please "I know I have said this ad nauseam but the super rich won’t be affected by 20% increases. They’ll be annoyed but it is what it is. The people affected will be: - Upper-Middle incomes where they are just about affording it (normally by sacrificing other things) and this will tip them over to unaffordable. - Low-middle incomes in receipt of bursaries where the increase on the non-bursary element will tip them into unaffordable. - Low incomes in receipt of bursaries that are looking likely to start being removed by schools who now scale back their charitable activity. - SEN pupils not in receipt of an education plan from the local authority. - Faith school pupils who cannot afford rise in fees. - Teachers and back office staff who start facing redundancies as schools look to reduce costs to minimise amount of 20% they need to pass on. - Local state schools who see their free or cheap access to facilities change as pvt schools try to reduce costs and reduce the level of charitable activity. - Private schools will see a reduction in diversity of their student body making them even more elite and out of touch. - Hotspots in the UK (where there are high proportions of pvt sch vs state sch) will have a problem of capacity as less kids go to pvt or leave. - Property prices in the catchments of good state sch will rise as people use the income freed up from pvt sch fees to but up houses. Sure there is more! A purely punitive populist policy that will not raise anywhere near the level of income for the govt as expected. One has to wonder whether the unspoken intention of this is really social engineering particularly focused on middle classes? | |||
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"One has to wonder whether the unspoken intention of this is really social engineering particularly focused on middle classes?" One does not need to wonder. The hatred held by so many against those who wish to privately educate their children (for whatever reason) was one of the first things one noticed upon moving to this country. This was never about money. | |||
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"As I have said previously, the IFS methodology was flawed. This from City AM a little while back… “The IFS used a report about American Catholic schools from 2002, and other data from the 90s to come up with a figure of £1.3-5bn that the policy would raise here in the UK. They didn’t take into account other scenarios, in which many more children were forced to move to the state sector, either because of their parents no longer being able to afford the fees, or as a result of the schools shutting down over financial pressures. It goes without saying that they also neglected to consider those on the margins of affordability who are affected by house prices, tax burdens and inflation, let alone an effective 15 per cent price increase.”" And the Ctholic schooling model in the US is vastly different from independent schools in the UK so offer precisely no comparison. Oh, and it turns out the author of the IFS report is the brst friend of the ideologically driven minister who is implementing it. Already over 10500 students have left the private sector. I live in an area that still has grammar schools and the scramble for places, especially at 6th form where entry is based on GCSE results not the 11 plus exam is 5 times over subscribed. Que’ll surpise, the school has launched a massive funding drive amongst the parents applying to send their kids to 6th form which thr cynic in me views as the state grammar trying to cash in on parents who can’t afford the VAT rise. Worked out well this ideologiocal policy of envy. I await the erudite oratory of Dianne Abbot, who excused her shift from wanting to abolish all grammar and private schools for everyone else to sending her son to St Paul’s because “West Indian mothers would go to the wall for thir sons”. Well that make the hypocrasy OK then. | |||
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"yes. people are fed up of subsidising luxury education " Assume you think private health insurance should be subject to VAT as well? Despite how it relieves pressure on the NHS! And you don’t care that each kid in private school saves tax payers £7.5k per year, ie £4.5bn per year. | |||
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"yes. people are fed up of subsidising luxury education " That presumes or implies that people are reaching into their pockets to pay for luxury education. They are not. Better to say "people are upset that other people have things that they do not have". It's much more honest. | |||
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"I wonder how good public education and health care would be if there was no private provision. What would the wealthy expect from those services and would they be more successful in achieving it?" it wouldn't be any better that's why those who can afford to go private be it health or education,if the public services were any good they wouldn't spend there cash going private | |||
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"I wonder how good public education and health care would be if there was no private provision. What would the wealthy expect from those services and would they be more successful in achieving it?it wouldn't be any better that's why those who can afford to go private be it health or education,if the public services were any good they wouldn't spend there cash going private" Which came first the chicken or the egg 😊 | |||
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"I wonder how good public education and health care would be if there was no private provision. What would the wealthy expect from those services and would they be more successful in achieving it?" If state education was better then many of those barely able to afford would not put themselves under financial strain. But what about SEN kids and kids of faith? What about kids with specific talents that are unlikely to ever be supported adequately in the state system which needs to cater for all rather than specialise? For the “middle classes” one of the worst decisions was the removal of grammar schools from many counties. State Schools having to educate kids of varying abilities or attention spans (ie disruption) in the same classes. Fix those issues and you will see the decline of private schools anyway. A punitive tax raid that is very unlikely to raise anywhere near the £1.5bn estimated will not fix the structural issues. | |||
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"I wonder how good public education and health care would be if there was no private provision. What would the wealthy expect from those services and would they be more successful in achieving it? If state education was better then many of those barely able to afford would not put themselves under financial strain. But what about SEN kids and kids of faith? What about kids with specific talents that are unlikely to ever be supported adequately in the state system which needs to cater for all rather than specialise? For the “middle classes” one of the worst decisions was the removal of grammar schools from many counties. State Schools having to educate kids of varying abilities or attention spans (ie disruption) in the same classes. Fix those issues and you will see the decline of private schools anyway. A punitive tax raid that is very unlikely to raise anywhere near the £1.5bn estimated will not fix the structural issues." State schools are also committed to inclusion which means they are compelled to include kids in the class with special needs e.g. ADHD. Whilst laudable in intent, it's scant consolation if it's your child missing an education. | |||
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"I wonder how good public education and health care would be if there was no private provision. What would the wealthy expect from those services and would they be more successful in achieving it? If state education was better then many of those barely able to afford would not put themselves under financial strain. But what about SEN kids and kids of faith? What about kids with specific talents that are unlikely to ever be supported adequately in the state system which needs to cater for all rather than specialise? For the “middle classes” one of the worst decisions was the removal of grammar schools from many counties. State Schools having to educate kids of varying abilities or attention spans (ie disruption) in the same classes. Fix those issues and you will see the decline of private schools anyway. A punitive tax raid that is very unlikely to raise anywhere near the £1.5bn estimated will not fix the structural issues. State schools are also committed to inclusion which means they are compelled to include kids in the class with special needs e.g. ADHD. Whilst laudable in intent, it's scant consolation if it's your child missing an education." Precisely. Sorry to say this but if one kid is bright and hard working but shares a classroom with another who has ADHD and attention issues making them disruptive, then the former loses out through no fault of their own. I went to state school (many years ago) and kids who needed special attention were grouped together into their own classes so as to a) ensure they got the support they needed and b) they did not disrupt everyone else. The do-gooders kept tinkering and fucked it up for everyone, including teachers who now need to have social worker skills as well as teaching skills! But hey, parents who are better off apparently are evil tax dodgers according to some for daring to use their post tax net income to give their kid a better chance AND as a byproduct relieve pressure on the state system! How bloody dare they! | |||
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"Yes, absolutely! Only 7% of people are rich enough send their kids to them, they are literally the upper class. Plus sending their kids to them is all about class hatred, they don't want their spoiled little brats to mix with working class kids." Absolite fucking waffle. You're part of the class divide problem. | |||
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"Yes, absolutely! Only 7% of people are rich enough send their kids to them, they are literally the upper class. Plus sending their kids to them is all about class hatred, they don't want their spoiled little brats to mix with working class kids." Complete twaddle. I will hazard a guess you don’t know any/many people who send their kids to private school? What are your views on low income parents whose kids are in receipt of bursaries? | |||
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"Yes, absolutely! Only 7% of people are rich enough send their kids to them, they are literally the upper class. Plus sending their kids to them is all about class hatred, they don't want their spoiled little brats to mix with working class kids." Possibly, but do they benefit from that 'advantage'? After all the Battle of Waterloo may well have been won on the playing fields of Eton, but recent wars were won in the playground of Grange Hill. | |||
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"vat will increase competition and as a result will increase the choice, that those who want luxury education, will have. it's a race to the top "It won’t. You will see the smaller schools either join groups for aggregated buying power creating virtual cartels or schools will close down as pupil numbers drop. With a smaller sector it will give less choice due to less competition. | |||
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"vat will increase competition and as a result will increase the choice, that those who want luxury education, will have. it's a race to the top
It won’t. You will see the smaller schools either join groups for aggregated buying power creating virtual cartels or schools will close down as pupil numbers drop. With a smaller sector it will give less choice due to less competition."i disagree | |||
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"vat will increase competition and as a result will increase the choice, that those who want luxury education, will have. it's a race to the top
It won’t. You will see the smaller schools either join groups for aggregated buying power creating virtual cartels or schools will close down as pupil numbers drop. With a smaller sector it will give less choice due to less competition.
i disagree"That’s your prerogative. Can you explain your thinking? | |||
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"vat will increase competition and as a result will increase the choice, that those who want luxury education, will have. it's a race to the top
It won’t. You will see the smaller schools either join groups for aggregated buying power creating virtual cartels or schools will close down as pupil numbers drop. With a smaller sector it will give less choice due to less competition.
i disagree"Your perspicacious reasoning and eloquence in debate paints a background for your views on private schooling... | |||
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"Yes, absolutely! Only 7% of people are rich enough send their kids to them, they are literally the upper class. Plus sending their kids to them is all about class hatred, they don't want their spoiled little brats to mix with working class kids. Absolite fucking waffle. You're part of the class divide problem. " Yes I am! I hate the upper classes and the corrupt British Establishment, I'd rather be like that than a spineless, toadying boot licker! | |||
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"Yes, absolutely! Only 7% of people are rich enough send their kids to them, they are literally the upper class. Plus sending their kids to them is all about class hatred, they don't want their spoiled little brats to mix with working class kids. Absolite fucking waffle. You're part of the class divide problem. Yes I am! I hate the upper classes and the corrupt British Establishment, I'd rather be like that than a spineless, toadying boot licker!" You also ignore questions directed at you. To make it easy here they are again… " Complete twaddle. I will hazard a guess you don’t know any/many people who send their kids to private school? What are your views on low income parents whose kids are in receipt of bursaries?" And another…do you think only “upper classes” and the “corrupt British Establishment” are the only people who send their kids to private school? | |||
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"Yes, absolutely! Only 7% of people are rich enough send their kids to them, they are literally the upper class. Plus sending their kids to them is all about class hatred, they don't want their spoiled little brats to mix with working class kids. Absolite fucking waffle. You're part of the class divide problem. Yes I am! I hate the upper classes and the corrupt British Establishment, I'd rather be like that than a spineless, toadying boot licker! You also ignore questions directed at you. To make it easy here they are again… Complete twaddle. I will hazard a guess you don’t know any/many people who send their kids to private school? What are your views on low income parents whose kids are in receipt of bursaries? And another…do you think only “upper classes” and the “corrupt British Establishment” are the only people who send their kids to private school?" I'm 57 and I have only ever met three people who went to snob schools, all were stuck up arseholes. As for kow income parents in reciept of bursaries, what's to stop their kids going to a normal school? If they're clever, they'll thrive there anyway. Questions answered. | |||
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"Oh, and yes, only the upper classes send their kids to private schools." You are talking utter rubbish and it shows you know nothing about the topic beyond your own bias. | |||
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"Oh, and yes, only the upper classes send their kids to private schools." Who are these 'upper classes' you speak of? Footballers? Influencers? Celebs? Plumbers? Kitchen Installers? I think we've moved on from John Lennon's Working Class Hero in 2024. | |||
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"Yes, absolutely! Only 7% of people are rich enough send their kids to them, they are literally the upper class. Plus sending their kids to them is all about class hatred, they don't want their spoiled little brats to mix with working class kids. Absolite fucking waffle. You're part of the class divide problem. Yes I am! I hate the upper classes and the corrupt British Establishment, I'd rather be like that than a spineless, toadying boot licker! You also ignore questions directed at you. To make it easy here they are again… Complete twaddle. I will hazard a guess you don’t know any/many people who send their kids to private school? What are your views on low income parents whose kids are in receipt of bursaries? And another…do you think only “upper classes” and the “corrupt British Establishment” are the only people who send their kids to private school? I'm 57 and I have only ever met three people who went to snob schools, all were stuck up arseholes. As for kow income parents in reciept of bursaries, what's to stop their kids going to a normal school? If they're clever, they'll thrive there anyway. Questions answered. " 57? Thought you were 51? Must be Fab 51? Anyway the question re bursaries was whether you classed them as stuck up, upper class, snobs, bootlickers, etc. Just interesting to see how you view people. All seems rather myopic to me | |||
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"Oh, and yes, only the upper classes send their kids to private schools. Who are these 'upper classes' you speak of? Footballers? Influencers? Celebs? Plumbers? Kitchen Installers? I think we've moved on from John Lennon's Working Class Hero in 2024. " I think he is confusing class with wealth. | |||
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"Yeah, I knocked six years off when I joined back in 2011, the difference between 44 and 38 seemed like it would be a deal breaker to many, now 57. 51, doesn't really matter. Anyway, no obviously I don't regard those with bursaries that way, but the whole reason clever working class kids are given bursaries is to divide the working classes, get these kids on to the Tory/Establishment side when they grow up." Okaaaay you think it is a conspiracy? To reduce the number of working class kids? Isn’t the idea of being elite partly tied into being one of few. Surely the “upper classes” need mots of plebs to do all the work as serfs to make them rich right? Why would you dilute that? Or maybe as charities they want to give smart/talented kids an opportunity to excel? And of course it isn’t all altruistic as they also want to maintain their grade point average! | |||
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 hmmmm  | |||
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"I wonder how good public education and health care would be if there was no private provision. What would the wealthy expect from those services and would they be more successful in achieving it? If state education was better then many of those barely able to afford would not put themselves under financial strain. But what about SEN kids and kids of faith? What about kids with specific talents that are unlikely to ever be supported adequately in the state system which needs to cater for all rather than specialise? For the “middle classes” one of the worst decisions was the removal of grammar schools from many counties. State Schools having to educate kids of varying abilities or attention spans (ie disruption) in the same classes. Fix those issues and you will see the decline of private schools anyway. A punitive tax raid that is very unlikely to raise anywhere near the £1.5bn estimated will not fix the structural issues. State schools are also committed to inclusion which means they are compelled to include kids in the class with special needs e.g. ADHD. Whilst laudable in intent, it's scant consolation if it's your child missing an education. Precisely. Sorry to say this but if one kid is bright and hard working but shares a classroom with another who has ADHD and attention issues making them disruptive, then the former loses out through no fault of their own. I went to state school (many years ago) and kids who needed special attention were grouped together into their own classes so as to a) ensure they got the support they needed and b) they did not disrupt everyone else. The do-gooders kept tinkering and fucked it up for everyone, including teachers who now need to have social worker skills as well as teaching skills! But hey, parents who are better off apparently are evil tax dodgers according to some for daring to use their post tax net income to give their kid a better chance AND as a byproduct relieve pressure on the state system! How bloody dare they! " | |||
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"Yes, absolutely! Only 7% of people are rich enough send their kids to them, they are literally the upper class. Plus sending their kids to them is all about class hatred, they don't want their spoiled little brats to mix with working class kids. Absolite fucking waffle. You're part of the class divide problem. Yes I am! I hate the upper classes and the corrupt British Establishment, I'd rather be like that than a spineless, toadying boot licker! You also ignore questions directed at you. To make it easy here they are again… Complete twaddle. I will hazard a guess you don’t know any/many people who send their kids to private school? What are your views on low income parents whose kids are in receipt of bursaries? And another…do you think only “upper classes” and the “corrupt British Establishment” are the only people who send their kids to private school? I'm 57 and I have only ever met three people who went to snob schools, all were stuck up arseholes. As for kow income parents in reciept of bursaries, what's to stop their kids going to a normal school? If they're clever, they'll thrive there anyway. Questions answered. " 57 and you have only met 3 people who went to private school? You really need to get out more mate | |||
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"Yes, absolutely! Only 7% of people are rich enough send their kids to them, they are literally the upper class. Plus sending their kids to them is all about class hatred, they don't want their spoiled little brats to mix with working class kids. Absolite fucking waffle. You're part of the class divide problem. Yes I am! I hate the upper classes and the corrupt British Establishment, I'd rather be like that than a spineless, toadying boot licker! You also ignore questions directed at you. To make it easy here they are again… Complete twaddle. I will hazard a guess you don’t know any/many people who send their kids to private school? What are your views on low income parents whose kids are in receipt of bursaries? And another…do you think only “upper classes” and the “corrupt British Establishment” are the only people who send their kids to private school? I'm 57 and I have only ever met three people who went to snob schools, all were stuck up arseholes. As for kow income parents in reciept of bursaries, what's to stop their kids going to a normal school? If they're clever, they'll thrive there anyway. Questions answered. 57 and you have only met 3 people who went to private school? You really need to get out more mate" I should have said I have only KNOWINGLY met three of them, ie that I definitely knew, however, I live in a working class Scottish town, and have done working class blue collar jobs all my life, so possibly these are the only three I've met, maybe you live in a typically Tory, racist, English area and they are more prevalent. Plus I get out plenty, why would I even eant to meet more? | |||
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"Yes, absolutely! Only 7% of people are rich enough send their kids to them, they are literally the upper class. Plus sending their kids to them is all about class hatred, they don't want their spoiled little brats to mix with working class kids. Absolite fucking waffle. You're part of the class divide problem. Yes I am! I hate the upper classes and the corrupt British Establishment, I'd rather be like that than a spineless, toadying boot licker! You also ignore questions directed at you. To make it easy here they are again… Complete twaddle. I will hazard a guess you don’t know any/many people who send their kids to private school? What are your views on low income parents whose kids are in receipt of bursaries? And another…do you think only “upper classes” and the “corrupt British Establishment” are the only people who send their kids to private school? I'm 57 and I have only ever met three people who went to snob schools, all were stuck up arseholes. As for kow income parents in reciept of bursaries, what's to stop their kids going to a normal school? If they're clever, they'll thrive there anyway. Questions answered. 57 and you have only met 3 people who went to private school? You really need to get out more mate I should have said I have only KNOWINGLY met three of them, ie that I definitely knew, however, I live in a working class Scottish town, and have done working class blue collar jobs all my life, so possibly these are the only three I've met, maybe you live in a typically Tory, racist, English area and they are more prevalent. Plus I get out plenty, why would I even eant to meet more?" To broaden your knowledge and understanding on issues before commenting on them perhaps? Like you thinking only “upper class” people go to private school  | |||
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"“What do we want?” “Better public services” “How do we fund them?” “We don’t know!” “Increase your taxes?” “Fuck off!”" You mean “Increase the taxes on one group who already save taxpayers £4.5bn a year by not taking up state school places” | |||
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"Yes, absolutely! Only 7% of people are rich enough send their kids to them, they are literally the upper class. Plus sending their kids to them is all about class hatred, they don't want their spoiled little brats to mix with working class kids. Absolite fucking waffle. You're part of the class divide problem. Yes I am! I hate the upper classes and the corrupt British Establishment, I'd rather be like that than a spineless, toadying boot licker! You also ignore questions directed at you. To make it easy here they are again… Complete twaddle. I will hazard a guess you don’t know any/many people who send their kids to private school? What are your views on low income parents whose kids are in receipt of bursaries? And another…do you think only “upper classes” and the “corrupt British Establishment” are the only people who send their kids to private school? I'm 57 and I have only ever met three people who went to snob schools, all were stuck up arseholes. As for kow income parents in reciept of bursaries, what's to stop their kids going to a normal school? If they're clever, they'll thrive there anyway. Questions answered. 57 and you have only met 3 people who went to private school? You really need to get out more mate I should have said I have only KNOWINGLY met three of them, ie that I definitely knew, however, I live in a working class Scottish town, and have done working class blue collar jobs all my life, so possibly these are the only three I've met, maybe you live in a typically Tory, racist, English area and they are more prevalent. Plus I get out plenty, why would I even eant to meet more?" haha tory english racist area pmsl hardly mate I live less than 12 miles from central London lots of brown black and white people and our council is labour controlled,I just tend to mix with a wide range of people rather than stick to my own little click be honest with you ya really sound like you just don't like anyone who you perceive has more than you do | |||
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"“What do we want?” “Better public services” “How do we fund them?” “We don’t know!” “Increase your taxes?” “Fuck off!” You mean “Increase the taxes on one group who already save taxpayers £4.5bn a year by not taking up state school places”" nope it's what you meant ... you wrote it ... but you don't like it when you have to put your hand in your own pocket hey ... tuff | |||
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"“What do we want?” “Better public services” “How do we fund them?” “We don’t know!” “Increase your taxes?” “Fuck off!” You mean “Increase the taxes on one group who already save taxpayers £4.5bn a year by not taking up state school places” nope it's what you meant ... you wrote it ... but you don't like it when you have to put your hand in your own pocket hey ... tuff" Hilarious. You don’t have a clue. My conscience is totally clear regarding my contribution to society. This is a purely punitive policy that is going to backfire. Do you think Private Health Insurance should be subject to VAT as well? | |||
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"“What do we want?” “Better public services” “How do we fund them?” “We don’t know!” “Increase your taxes?” “Fuck off!” You mean “Increase the taxes on one group who already save taxpayers £4.5bn a year by not taking up state school places” nope it's what you meant ... you wrote it ... but you don't like it when you have to put your hand in your own pocket hey ... tuff Hilarious. You don’t have a clue. My conscience is totally clear regarding my contribution to society. This is a purely punitive policy that is going to backfire. Do you think Private Health Insurance should be subject to VAT as well?" You have a tendency to make inflammatory statements then runaway without answering questions. Can you explain your thinking around this statement “vat will increase competition and as a result will increase the choice, that those who want luxury education, will have. it's a race to the top”? | |||
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"Labour’s plan to add VAT to independent school fees has sparked fury from thousands of families in the army, navy and RAF who say they have to send their kids to private school because they could be posted abroad at very short notice. Military families have launched legal action against the government." I have been out of education for 40 years so maybe things have changed. I went to a state school but it had a residential facility, lots of Military kids were accommodated there, their tuition didn’t have to be paid for as it was not a ‘private’ school but they had their accommodation paid for and if their parents were serving overseas I think they were allowed 3 return flights per year to go home. | |||
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"It’s stupid and counterproductive. Already, 10,000 fewer private school places were taken in September, thus increasing the already overburdened state sector and that is before any VAT has been added. Just wait until the VAT is added and see many many more follow. The amount estimated to be raised, will pay for approx 1/3 of a teacher per school….also, where are these extra teachers coming from? Every private school that wants to stay in business will employ very good bursars to make sure they are claiming back every single penny they can that they are not currently doing so. The exodus of private school kids to the state system will mean that any grammar schools still around will become the choice for former private sector school kids (parents will pay for tuition to make sure they get in), thus pushing relatively less wealthy children out of that option. And any decent state schools will have the local area house prices driven up so much, it will again force the less wealthy out of those better schools… It really is very stupid but to be expected by this left wing shower of shite that is currently in charge. Politics of envy. " I disagree | |||
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"Labour’s plan to add VAT to independent school fees has sparked fury from thousands of families in the army, navy and RAF who say they have to send their kids to private school because they could be posted abroad at very short notice. Military families have launched legal action against the government. I have been out of education for 40 years so maybe things have changed. I went to a state school but it had a residential facility, lots of Military kids were accommodated there, their tuition didn’t have to be paid for as it was not a ‘private’ school but they had their accommodation paid for and if their parents were serving overseas I think they were allowed 3 return flights per year to go home. " I am aware of one state boarding school in Sussex called Steyning Grammar (it isn’t a Grammar confusingly as Sussex did away with them). May be others in UK but doubt many? | |||
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"It’s stupid and counterproductive. Already, 10,000 fewer private school places were taken in September, thus increasing the already overburdened state sector and that is before any VAT has been added. Just wait until the VAT is added and see many many more follow. The amount estimated to be raised, will pay for approx 1/3 of a teacher per school….also, where are these extra teachers coming from? Every private school that wants to stay in business will employ very good bursars to make sure they are claiming back every single penny they can that they are not currently doing so. The exodus of private school kids to the state system will mean that any grammar schools still around will become the choice for former private sector school kids (parents will pay for tuition to make sure they get in), thus pushing relatively less wealthy children out of that option. And any decent state schools will have the local area house prices driven up so much, it will again force the less wealthy out of those better schools… It really is very stupid but to be expected by this left wing shower of shite that is currently in charge. Politics of envy. I disagree " You don’t add much to the discussion do you! And you ignore questions directed at you. It basically undermines your position by taking away credibility for your (lack of) arguments. | |||
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| Reply privately |
"It’s stupid and counterproductive. Already, 10,000 fewer private school places were taken in September, thus increasing the already overburdened state sector and that is before any VAT has been added. Just wait until the VAT is added and see many many more follow. The amount estimated to be raised, will pay for approx 1/3 of a teacher per school….also, where are these extra teachers coming from? Every private school that wants to stay in business will employ very good bursars to make sure they are claiming back every single penny they can that they are not currently doing so. The exodus of private school kids to the state system will mean that any grammar schools still around will become the choice for former private sector school kids (parents will pay for tuition to make sure they get in), thus pushing relatively less wealthy children out of that option. And any decent state schools will have the local area house prices driven up so much, it will again force the less wealthy out of those better schools… It really is very stupid but to be expected by this left wing shower of shite that is currently in charge. Politics of envy. I disagree You don’t add much to the discussion do you! And you ignore questions directed at you. It basically undermines your position by taking away credibility for your (lack of) arguments. " you just want an argument ... i see .... well that's pointless, as your luxury education will be liable for vat and you will lump it. | |||
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| Reply privately |
"It’s stupid and counterproductive. Already, 10,000 fewer private school places were taken in September, thus increasing the already overburdened state sector and that is before any VAT has been added. Just wait until the VAT is added and see many many more follow. The amount estimated to be raised, will pay for approx 1/3 of a teacher per school….also, where are these extra teachers coming from? Every private school that wants to stay in business will employ very good bursars to make sure they are claiming back every single penny they can that they are not currently doing so. The exodus of private school kids to the state system will mean that any grammar schools still around will become the choice for former private sector school kids (parents will pay for tuition to make sure they get in), thus pushing relatively less wealthy children out of that option. And any decent state schools will have the local area house prices driven up so much, it will again force the less wealthy out of those better schools… It really is very stupid but to be expected by this left wing shower of shite that is currently in charge. Politics of envy. I disagree You don’t add much to the discussion do you! And you ignore questions directed at you. It basically undermines your position by taking away credibility for your (lack of) arguments. you just want an argument ... i see .... well that's pointless, as your luxury education will be liable for vat and you will lump it. "I don’t want an argument actually. I am genuinely interested in trying to understand your point of view to see if it has any merit rather than simply being an ideologically driven punish the wealthy for daring to be successful point of view. You clearly have not read or wanted to engage with any of the counter arguments opposing this policy. So I say your view is reductive and myopic and comes from a position of envy. And STILL you avoid the direct questions. I think that demonstrates you have no view other than bash the rich | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"It’s stupid and counterproductive. Already, 10,000 fewer private school places were taken in September, thus increasing the already overburdened state sector and that is before any VAT has been added. Just wait until the VAT is added and see many many more follow. The amount estimated to be raised, will pay for approx 1/3 of a teacher per school….also, where are these extra teachers coming from? Every private school that wants to stay in business will employ very good bursars to make sure they are claiming back every single penny they can that they are not currently doing so. The exodus of private school kids to the state system will mean that any grammar schools still around will become the choice for former private sector school kids (parents will pay for tuition to make sure they get in), thus pushing relatively less wealthy children out of that option. And any decent state schools will have the local area house prices driven up so much, it will again force the less wealthy out of those better schools… It really is very stupid but to be expected by this left wing shower of shite that is currently in charge. Politics of envy. I disagree You don’t add much to the discussion do you! And you ignore questions directed at you. It basically undermines your position by taking away credibility for your (lack of) arguments. you just want an argument ... i see .... well that's pointless, as your luxury education will be liable for vat and you will lump it.
I don’t want an argument actually. I am genuinely interested in trying to understand your point of view to see if it has any merit rather than simply being an ideologically driven punish the wealthy for daring to be successful point of view.
You clearly have not read or wanted to engage with any of the counter arguments opposing this policy. So I say your view is reductive and myopic and comes from a position of envy.
And STILL you avoid the direct questions. I think that demonstrates you have no view other than bash the rich "i pay top rate tax... hardly a position of envy. this WILL happen ... you Will lump it .... end of | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"It’s stupid and counterproductive. Already, 10,000 fewer private school places were taken in September, thus increasing the already overburdened state sector and that is before any VAT has been added. Just wait until the VAT is added and see many many more follow. The amount estimated to be raised, will pay for approx 1/3 of a teacher per school….also, where are these extra teachers coming from? Every private school that wants to stay in business will employ very good bursars to make sure they are claiming back every single penny they can that they are not currently doing so. The exodus of private school kids to the state system will mean that any grammar schools still around will become the choice for former private sector school kids (parents will pay for tuition to make sure they get in), thus pushing relatively less wealthy children out of that option. And any decent state schools will have the local area house prices driven up so much, it will again force the less wealthy out of those better schools… It really is very stupid but to be expected by this left wing shower of shite that is currently in charge. Politics of envy. I disagree You don’t add much to the discussion do you! And you ignore questions directed at you. It basically undermines your position by taking away credibility for your (lack of) arguments. you just want an argument ... i see .... well that's pointless, as your luxury education will be liable for vat and you will lump it.
I don’t want an argument actually. I am genuinely interested in trying to understand your point of view to see if it has any merit rather than simply being an ideologically driven punish the wealthy for daring to be successful point of view.
You clearly have not read or wanted to engage with any of the counter arguments opposing this policy. So I say your view is reductive and myopic and comes from a position of envy.
And STILL you avoid the direct questions. I think that demonstrates you have no view other than bash the rich
i pay top rate tax... hardly a position of envy. this WILL happen ... you Will lump it .... end of "oh come of it no one in Wales earns enough to pay top rate tax | |||
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| Reply privately |
"It’s stupid and counterproductive. Already, 10,000 fewer private school places were taken in September, thus increasing the already overburdened state sector and that is before any VAT has been added. Just wait until the VAT is added and see many many more follow. The amount estimated to be raised, will pay for approx 1/3 of a teacher per school….also, where are these extra teachers coming from? Every private school that wants to stay in business will employ very good bursars to make sure they are claiming back every single penny they can that they are not currently doing so. The exodus of private school kids to the state system will mean that any grammar schools still around will become the choice for former private sector school kids (parents will pay for tuition to make sure they get in), thus pushing relatively less wealthy children out of that option. And any decent state schools will have the local area house prices driven up so much, it will again force the less wealthy out of those better schools… It really is very stupid but to be expected by this left wing shower of shite that is currently in charge. Politics of envy. I disagree You don’t add much to the discussion do you! And you ignore questions directed at you. It basically undermines your position by taking away credibility for your (lack of) arguments. you just want an argument ... i see .... well that's pointless, as your luxury education will be liable for vat and you will lump it.
I don’t want an argument actually. I am genuinely interested in trying to understand your point of view to see if it has any merit rather than simply being an ideologically driven punish the wealthy for daring to be successful point of view.
You clearly have not read or wanted to engage with any of the counter arguments opposing this policy. So I say your view is reductive and myopic and comes from a position of envy.
And STILL you avoid the direct questions. I think that demonstrates you have no view other than bash the rich
i pay top rate tax... hardly a position of envy. this WILL happen ... you Will lump it .... end of oh come of it no one in Wales earns enough to pay top rate tax"🤣🤣🤣 | |||
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| Reply privately |
"It’s stupid and counterproductive. Already, 10,000 fewer private school places were taken in September, thus increasing the already overburdened state sector and that is before any VAT has been added. Just wait until the VAT is added and see many many more follow. The amount estimated to be raised, will pay for approx 1/3 of a teacher per school….also, where are these extra teachers coming from? Every private school that wants to stay in business will employ very good bursars to make sure they are claiming back every single penny they can that they are not currently doing so. The exodus of private school kids to the state system will mean that any grammar schools still around will become the choice for former private sector school kids (parents will pay for tuition to make sure they get in), thus pushing relatively less wealthy children out of that option. And any decent state schools will have the local area house prices driven up so much, it will again force the less wealthy out of those better schools… It really is very stupid but to be expected by this left wing shower of shite that is currently in charge. Politics of envy. I disagree You don’t add much to the discussion do you! And you ignore questions directed at you. It basically undermines your position by taking away credibility for your (lack of) arguments. you just want an argument ... i see .... well that's pointless, as your luxury education will be liable for vat and you will lump it.
I don’t want an argument actually. I am genuinely interested in trying to understand your point of view to see if it has any merit rather than simply being an ideologically driven punish the wealthy for daring to be successful point of view.
You clearly have not read or wanted to engage with any of the counter arguments opposing this policy. So I say your view is reductive and myopic and comes from a position of envy.
And STILL you avoid the direct questions. I think that demonstrates you have no view other than bash the rich
i pay top rate tax... hardly a position of envy. this WILL happen ... you Will lump it .... end of "The lady doth protest too much me thinks!
As a 45% taxpayer what is your view on Private Healthcare being VAT exempt?
Also what is your view about introducing the change in the middle of an academic year?
Oh and I know this is going to happen, doesn’t make it right and won’t stop me complaining about it. And I have been open about this not affecting me top much but I know people it will impact and I am concerned for them. | |||
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| Reply privately |
"It’s stupid and counterproductive. Already, 10,000 fewer private school places were taken in September, thus increasing the already overburdened state sector and that is before any VAT has been added. Just wait until the VAT is added and see many many more follow. The amount estimated to be raised, will pay for approx 1/3 of a teacher per school….also, where are these extra teachers coming from? Every private school that wants to stay in business will employ very good bursars to make sure they are claiming back every single penny they can that they are not currently doing so. The exodus of private school kids to the state system will mean that any grammar schools still around will become the choice for former private sector school kids (parents will pay for tuition to make sure they get in), thus pushing relatively less wealthy children out of that option. And any decent state schools will have the local area house prices driven up so much, it will again force the less wealthy out of those better schools… It really is very stupid but to be expected by this left wing shower of shite that is currently in charge. Politics of envy. I disagree " bravo, great argument. 🙄 | |||
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| Reply privately |
"It’s stupid and counterproductive. Already, 10,000 fewer private school places were taken in September, thus increasing the already overburdened state sector and that is before any VAT has been added. Just wait until the VAT is added and see many many more follow. The amount estimated to be raised, will pay for approx 1/3 of a teacher per school….also, where are these extra teachers coming from? Every private school that wants to stay in business will employ very good bursars to make sure they are claiming back every single penny they can that they are not currently doing so. The exodus of private school kids to the state system will mean that any grammar schools still around will become the choice for former private sector school kids (parents will pay for tuition to make sure they get in), thus pushing relatively less wealthy children out of that option. And any decent state schools will have the local area house prices driven up so much, it will again force the less wealthy out of those better schools… It really is very stupid but to be expected by this left wing shower of shite that is currently in charge. Politics of envy. I disagree bravo, great argument. 🙄" I’d expect something more considered and stronger from someone bright enough to be an employee or business owner in the 45% tax bracket | |||
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"It’s stupid and counterproductive. Already, 10,000 fewer private school places were taken in September, thus increasing the already overburdened state sector and that is before any VAT has been added. Just wait until the VAT is added and see many many more follow. The amount estimated to be raised, will pay for approx 1/3 of a teacher per school….also, where are these extra teachers coming from? Every private school that wants to stay in business will employ very good bursars to make sure they are claiming back every single penny they can that they are not currently doing so. The exodus of private school kids to the state system will mean that any grammar schools still around will become the choice for former private sector school kids (parents will pay for tuition to make sure they get in), thus pushing relatively less wealthy children out of that option. And any decent state schools will have the local area house prices driven up so much, it will again force the less wealthy out of those better schools… It really is very stupid but to be expected by this left wing shower of shite that is currently in charge. Politics of envy. I disagree You don’t add much to the discussion do you! And you ignore questions directed at you. It basically undermines your position by taking away credibility for your (lack of) arguments. you just want an argument ... i see .... well that's pointless, as your luxury education will be liable for vat and you will lump it.
I don’t want an argument actually. I am genuinely interested in trying to understand your point of view to see if it has any merit rather than simply being an ideologically driven punish the wealthy for daring to be successful point of view.
You clearly have not read or wanted to engage with any of the counter arguments opposing this policy. So I say your view is reductive and myopic and comes from a position of envy.
And STILL you avoid the direct questions. I think that demonstrates you have no view other than bash the rich
i pay top rate tax... hardly a position of envy. this WILL happen ... you Will lump it .... end of
The lady doth protest too much me thinks!
As a 45% taxpayer what is your view on Private Healthcare being VAT exempt?
Also what is your view about introducing the change in the middle of an academic year?
Oh and I know this is going to happen, doesn’t make it right and won’t stop me complaining about it. And I have been open about this not affecting me top much but I know people it will impact and I am concerned for them."a) start a thread on healthcare save derailing this thread b) adjust your personal economy to suit, same as it ever was | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"It’s stupid and counterproductive. Already, 10,000 fewer private school places were taken in September, thus increasing the already overburdened state sector and that is before any VAT has been added. Just wait until the VAT is added and see many many more follow. The amount estimated to be raised, will pay for approx 1/3 of a teacher per school….also, where are these extra teachers coming from? Every private school that wants to stay in business will employ very good bursars to make sure they are claiming back every single penny they can that they are not currently doing so. The exodus of private school kids to the state system will mean that any grammar schools still around will become the choice for former private sector school kids (parents will pay for tuition to make sure they get in), thus pushing relatively less wealthy children out of that option. And any decent state schools will have the local area house prices driven up so much, it will again force the less wealthy out of those better schools… It really is very stupid but to be expected by this left wing shower of shite that is currently in charge. Politics of envy. I disagree You don’t add much to the discussion do you! And you ignore questions directed at you. It basically undermines your position by taking away credibility for your (lack of) arguments. you just want an argument ... i see .... well that's pointless, as your luxury education will be liable for vat and you will lump it.
I don’t want an argument actually. I am genuinely interested in trying to understand your point of view to see if it has any merit rather than simply being an ideologically driven punish the wealthy for daring to be successful point of view.
You clearly have not read or wanted to engage with any of the counter arguments opposing this policy. So I say your view is reductive and myopic and comes from a position of envy.
And STILL you avoid the direct questions. I think that demonstrates you have no view other than bash the rich
i pay top rate tax... hardly a position of envy. this WILL happen ... you Will lump it .... end of
The lady doth protest too much me thinks!
As a 45% taxpayer what is your view on Private Healthcare being VAT exempt?
Also what is your view about introducing the change in the middle of an academic year?
Oh and I know this is going to happen, doesn’t make it right and won’t stop me complaining about it. And I have been open about this not affecting me top much but I know people it will impact and I am concerned for them.
a) start a thread on healthcare save derailing this thread
b) adjust your personal economy to suit, same as it ever was"You don’t read what is actually written do you? VAT exemption on private healthcare is highly relevant to this topic. I want to see if your views are consistent. Also what about introducing policy change in the middle of an academic year? You are avoiding questions. It weakens your position if you cannot discuss! But then you’d know that as someone earning over £125,140 as you’d have to be pretty smart! | |||
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| Reply privately |
"It’s stupid and counterproductive. Already, 10,000 fewer private school places were taken in September, thus increasing the already overburdened state sector and that is before any VAT has been added. Just wait until the VAT is added and see many many more follow. The amount estimated to be raised, will pay for approx 1/3 of a teacher per school….also, where are these extra teachers coming from? Every private school that wants to stay in business will employ very good bursars to make sure they are claiming back every single penny they can that they are not currently doing so. The exodus of private school kids to the state system will mean that any grammar schools still around will become the choice for former private sector school kids (parents will pay for tuition to make sure they get in), thus pushing relatively less wealthy children out of that option. And any decent state schools will have the local area house prices driven up so much, it will again force the less wealthy out of those better schools… It really is very stupid but to be expected by this left wing shower of shite that is currently in charge. Politics of envy. I disagree You don’t add much to the discussion do you! And you ignore questions directed at you. It basically undermines your position by taking away credibility for your (lack of) arguments. you just want an argument ... i see .... well that's pointless, as your luxury education will be liable for vat and you will lump it.
I don’t want an argument actually. I am genuinely interested in trying to understand your point of view to see if it has any merit rather than simply being an ideologically driven punish the wealthy for daring to be successful point of view.
You clearly have not read or wanted to engage with any of the counter arguments opposing this policy. So I say your view is reductive and myopic and comes from a position of envy.
And STILL you avoid the direct questions. I think that demonstrates you have no view other than bash the rich
i pay top rate tax... hardly a position of envy. this WILL happen ... you Will lump it .... end of
The lady doth protest too much me thinks!
As a 45% taxpayer what is your view on Private Healthcare being VAT exempt?
Also what is your view about introducing the change in the middle of an academic year?
Oh and I know this is going to happen, doesn’t make it right and won’t stop me complaining about it. And I have been open about this not affecting me top much but I know people it will impact and I am concerned for them.
a) start a thread on healthcare save derailing this thread
b) adjust your personal economy to suit, same as it ever was
You don’t read what is actually written do you?
VAT exemption on private healthcare is highly relevant to this topic. I want to see if your views are consistent.
Also what about introducing policy change in the middle of an academic year? You are avoiding questions. It weakens your position if you cannot discuss! But then you’d know that as someone earning over £125,140 as you’d have to be pretty smart!"with your personal attacks you just come across as sounding envious of me being a high earner now. if you're not happy then adjust your position to suit the changes instead of being insulting, it's always been that simple | |||
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| Reply privately |
"It’s stupid and counterproductive. Already, 10,000 fewer private school places were taken in September, thus increasing the already overburdened state sector and that is before any VAT has been added. Just wait until the VAT is added and see many many more follow. The amount estimated to be raised, will pay for approx 1/3 of a teacher per school….also, where are these extra teachers coming from? Every private school that wants to stay in business will employ very good bursars to make sure they are claiming back every single penny they can that they are not currently doing so. The exodus of private school kids to the state system will mean that any grammar schools still around will become the choice for former private sector school kids (parents will pay for tuition to make sure they get in), thus pushing relatively less wealthy children out of that option. And any decent state schools will have the local area house prices driven up so much, it will again force the less wealthy out of those better schools… It really is very stupid but to be expected by this left wing shower of shite that is currently in charge. Politics of envy. I disagree You don’t add much to the discussion do you! And you ignore questions directed at you. It basically undermines your position by taking away credibility for your (lack of) arguments. you just want an argument ... i see .... well that's pointless, as your luxury education will be liable for vat and you will lump it.
I don’t want an argument actually. I am genuinely interested in trying to understand your point of view to see if it has any merit rather than simply being an ideologically driven punish the wealthy for daring to be successful point of view.
You clearly have not read or wanted to engage with any of the counter arguments opposing this policy. So I say your view is reductive and myopic and comes from a position of envy.
And STILL you avoid the direct questions. I think that demonstrates you have no view other than bash the rich
i pay top rate tax... hardly a position of envy. this WILL happen ... you Will lump it .... end of
The lady doth protest too much me thinks!
As a 45% taxpayer what is your view on Private Healthcare being VAT exempt?
Also what is your view about introducing the change in the middle of an academic year?
Oh and I know this is going to happen, doesn’t make it right and won’t stop me complaining about it. And I have been open about this not affecting me top much but I know people it will impact and I am concerned for them.
a) start a thread on healthcare save derailing this thread
b) adjust your personal economy to suit, same as it ever was
You don’t read what is actually written do you?
VAT exemption on private healthcare is highly relevant to this topic. I want to see if your views are consistent.
Also what about introducing policy change in the middle of an academic year? You are avoiding questions. It weakens your position if you cannot discuss! But then you’d know that as someone earning over £125,140 as you’d have to be pretty smart!
with your personal attacks you just come across as sounding envious of me being a high earner now. if you're not happy then adjust your position to suit the changes instead of being insulting, it's always been that simple"That’s rather thin skinned! Trust me I am not remotely envious, I am just not sure I believe you. I have not insulted you. I have challenged your weak arguments and expressed my disappointment that you won’t expand on your views or provide a cogent argument. Again you demonstrate you are not reading what is written. I don’t need to adjust anything for myself. I have been open about that. My concern is for family friends who are leas wealthy and in receipt of bursaries. So 45% tax payer, can you answer question on VAT e emption for private healthcare? | |||
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"I But then you’d know that as someone earning over £125,140 as you’d have to be pretty smart!" ….or a Labour front bech policy maker on education….. | |||
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"Lennox precisely what are you adding to the discussion with those two posts?" Demonstrating exactly why Labour wants to bring in this policy. It's a highly emotive issue, like immigration or Brexit. Like catnip. It makes some people bonkers with anger. Politics is often more around harnessing and playing to emotive issues than addressing rational ones. | |||
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" +++ But only affects rich “upper classes” right? "Collateral damage  | |||
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"Discuss!" Someone doesn’t like it. | |||
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"“We are convinced that the secretary of state for education, and the Department for Education and its civil servants haven’t taken our schools into consideration; it’s as though we do not exist.” Says it all really!" playing Devils Advocate here but that statement could ring true for lots of Comprehensive Schools, which are failing through under funding. By trying to redress this issue for the vast majority of the school children in this country surely that should be a laudable thing. Unfortunately part of the plan means removing a tax break from more wealthy individuals. But surely it's painful for the few to benefit the many and surely as a principle that's a decent thing to do. But I have no skin in this right now, my child benefitted from the system but I wouldn't complain if he was still at such a school. It tough for those parents that are struggling but there are lots of areas that are tough in life, it's all about making difficult life decisions.. Mrs x | |||
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"“We are convinced that the secretary of state for education, and the Department for Education and its civil servants haven’t taken our schools into consideration; it’s as though we do not exist.” Says it all really!playing Devils Advocate here but that statement could ring true for lots of Comprehensive Schools, which are failing through under funding. By trying to redress this issue for the vast majority of the school children in this country surely that should be a laudable thing. Unfortunately part of the plan means removing a tax break from more wealthy individuals. But surely it's painful for the few to benefit the many and surely as a principle that's a decent thing to do. But I have no skin in this right now, my child benefitted from the system but I wouldn't complain if he was still at such a school. It tough for those parents that are struggling but there are lots of areas that are tough in life, it's all about making difficult life decisions.. Mrs x" Except your point ignores all the other points made. You know I won’t agree. If you charge VAT on education from one type of organisation then you need to do it for all (ie universities). Similarly why not apply VAT to private healthcare and insurance? I see this as punitive and targeted. If we want to increase funding for state schools (and I think we should) then why try to do that by effectively punishing people who are already saving taxpayers £4.5bn a year and relieving pressure on the system? Increase funding through general taxation. I might not like another 1p in the £ increase in income tax, but it would certainly be fairer than targeting one group (let alone all the unintended consequences already listed and the impact on low income families in pvt system). | |||
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"“We are convinced that the secretary of state for education, and the Department for Education and its civil servants haven’t taken our schools into consideration; it’s as though we do not exist.” Says it all really!playing Devils Advocate here but that statement could ring true for lots of Comprehensive Schools, which are failing through under funding. By trying to redress this issue for the vast majority of the school children in this country surely that should be a laudable thing. Unfortunately part of the plan means removing a tax break from more wealthy individuals. But surely it's painful for the few to benefit the many and surely as a principle that's a decent thing to do. But I have no skin in this right now, my child benefitted from the system but I wouldn't complain if he was still at such a school. It tough for those parents that are struggling but there are lots of areas that are tough in life, it's all about making difficult life decisions.. Mrs x Except your point ignores all the other points made. You know I won’t agree. If you charge VAT on education from one type of organisation then you need to do it for all (ie universities). Similarly why not apply VAT to private healthcare and insurance? I see this as punitive and targeted. If we want to increase funding for state schools (and I think we should) then why try to do that by effectively punishing people who are already saving taxpayers £4.5bn a year and relieving pressure on the system? Increase funding through general taxation. I might not like another 1p in the £ increase in income tax, but it would certainly be fairer than targeting one group (let alone all the unintended consequences already listed and the impact on low income families in pvt system). " Also the false narrative about parents getting a “tax break” needs to be called out. How is it a tax break if VAT has NEVER been applied to the provision of education? It’s not as if the Govt at some point tried to incentivise take up by reducing taxes (ie give a tax break) because the tax has NEVER applied to education. There is no tax break. Do people who take out private medical insurance and get treated for healthcare privately get “tax breaks”? | |||
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"“We are convinced that the secretary of state for education, and the Department for Education and its civil servants haven’t taken our schools into consideration; it’s as though we do not exist.” Says it all really!playing Devils Advocate here but that statement could ring true for lots of Comprehensive Schools, which are failing through under funding. By trying to redress this issue for the vast majority of the school children in this country surely that should be a laudable thing. Unfortunately part of the plan means removing a tax break from more wealthy individuals. But surely it's painful for the few to benefit the many and surely as a principle that's a decent thing to do. But I have no skin in this right now, my child benefitted from the system but I wouldn't complain if he was still at such a school. It tough for those parents that are struggling but there are lots of areas that are tough in life, it's all about making difficult life decisions.. Mrs x Except your point ignores all the other points made. You know I won’t agree. If you charge VAT on education from one type of organisation then you need to do it for all (ie universities). Similarly why not apply VAT to private healthcare and insurance? I see this as punitive and targeted. If we want to increase funding for state schools (and I think we should) then why try to do that by effectively punishing people who are already saving taxpayers £4.5bn a year and relieving pressure on the system? Increase funding through general taxation. I might not like another 1p in the £ increase in income tax, but it would certainly be fairer than targeting one group (let alone all the unintended consequences already listed and the impact on low income families in pvt system). Also the false narrative about parents getting a “tax break” needs to be called out. How is it a tax break if VAT has NEVER been applied to the provision of education? It’s not as if the Govt at some point tried to incentivise take up by reducing taxes (ie give a tax break) because the tax has NEVER applied to education. There is no tax break. Do people who take out private medical insurance and get treated for healthcare privately get “tax breaks”?" But it's all about perception. If Mr Average has to pay VAT on the things he buys then he thinks everyone should pay VAT on their purchases. When the 7% don't pay VAT on something then the 93% feel aggrieved and it looks like they are getting some kind of break which they don't. Your saying that you wouldn't mind paying an extra penny in income tax and that would be fairer but not for everyone. What about those without kids, those who's kids have grown up, those who would never use the public school system. You say they are targeting one group and that's not fair but they are only 'targetting' those 7% who are sending their kids to such schools. So essentially they are now requiring them to pay VAT on what they choose to purchase, in this case private education. You mention the impact that this will have on low income families but if you can afford to send your kids to a private school you are not on what most people would consider to be a low income. Those gifted kids that gain bursaries may, and I say may because I don't think all bursaries will disappear, lose the opportunity to attend such schools but the fact remains that they will still be gifted. They were gifted before entering the private school system and will be gifted upon leaving it. Private education is a privileged system for the few not the many. Most people don't even give it much thought I suppose but when they do I can understand why the many think the few are taking the piss by using such a privileged system without paying the tax that everyone else has to pay on the things they buy. Like I said before I'm just playing devil's advocate but I can see why some view it like this, and how they view it as those in a privileged position using it to their advantage when this is not afforded to the rest of the population. Just saying... Mrs x | |||
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"“We are convinced that the secretary of state for education, and the Department for Education and its civil servants haven’t taken our schools into consideration; it’s as though we do not exist.” Says it all really!playing Devils Advocate here but that statement could ring true for lots of Comprehensive Schools, which are failing through under funding. By trying to redress this issue for the vast majority of the school children in this country surely that should be a laudable thing. Unfortunately part of the plan means removing a tax break from more wealthy individuals. But surely it's painful for the few to benefit the many and surely as a principle that's a decent thing to do. But I have no skin in this right now, my child benefitted from the system but I wouldn't complain if he was still at such a school. It tough for those parents that are struggling but there are lots of areas that are tough in life, it's all about making difficult life decisions.. Mrs x Except your point ignores all the other points made. You know I won’t agree. If you charge VAT on education from one type of organisation then you need to do it for all (ie universities). Similarly why not apply VAT to private healthcare and insurance? I see this as punitive and targeted. If we want to increase funding for state schools (and I think we should) then why try to do that by effectively punishing people who are already saving taxpayers £4.5bn a year and relieving pressure on the system? Increase funding through general taxation. I might not like another 1p in the £ increase in income tax, but it would certainly be fairer than targeting one group (let alone all the unintended consequences already listed and the impact on low income families in pvt system). Also the false narrative about parents getting a “tax break” needs to be called out. How is it a tax break if VAT has NEVER been applied to the provision of education? It’s not as if the Govt at some point tried to incentivise take up by reducing taxes (ie give a tax break) because the tax has NEVER applied to education. There is no tax break. Do people who take out private medical insurance and get treated for healthcare privately get “tax breaks”?But it's all about perception. If Mr Average has to pay VAT on the things he buys then he thinks everyone should pay VAT on their purchases. When the 7% don't pay VAT on something then the 93% feel aggrieved and it looks like they are getting some kind of break which they don't. Your saying that you wouldn't mind paying an extra penny in income tax and that would be fairer but not for everyone. What about those without kids, those who's kids have grown up, those who would never use the public school system. You say they are targeting one group and that's not fair but they are only 'targetting' those 7% who are sending their kids to such schools. So essentially they are now requiring them to pay VAT on what they choose to purchase, in this case private education. You mention the impact that this will have on low income families but if you can afford to send your kids to a private school you are not on what most people would consider to be a low income. Those gifted kids that gain bursaries may, and I say may because I don't think all bursaries will disappear, lose the opportunity to attend such schools but the fact remains that they will still be gifted. They were gifted before entering the private school system and will be gifted upon leaving it. Private education is a privileged system for the few not the many. Most people don't even give it much thought I suppose but when they do I can understand why the many think the few are taking the piss by using such a privileged system without paying the tax that everyone else has to pay on the things they buy. Like I said before I'm just playing devil's advocate but I can see why some view it like this, and how they view it as those in a privileged position using it to their advantage when this is not afforded to the rest of the population. Just saying... Mrs x" 1. Then why do you not pay VAT on private healthcare? 2. The point on an income tax rise not being fair on those with no kids - every parent with a child in private school has already paid taxes for a public service they are not using but would have to if there was no choice. However, by not using the state school system they are saving tax payers £7.5k per child per year. | |||
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"“We are convinced that the secretary of state for education, and the Department for Education and its civil servants haven’t taken our schools into consideration; it’s as though we do not exist.” Says it all really!playing Devils Advocate here but that statement could ring true for lots of Comprehensive Schools, which are failing through under funding. By trying to redress this issue for the vast majority of the school children in this country surely that should be a laudable thing. Unfortunately part of the plan means removing a tax break from more wealthy individuals. But surely it's painful for the few to benefit the many and surely as a principle that's a decent thing to do. But I have no skin in this right now, my child benefitted from the system but I wouldn't complain if he was still at such a school. It tough for those parents that are struggling but there are lots of areas that are tough in life, it's all about making difficult life decisions.. Mrs x Except your point ignores all the other points made. You know I won’t agree. If you charge VAT on education from one type of organisation then you need to do it for all (ie universities). Similarly why not apply VAT to private healthcare and insurance? I see this as punitive and targeted. If we want to increase funding for state schools (and I think we should) then why try to do that by effectively punishing people who are already saving taxpayers £4.5bn a year and relieving pressure on the system? Increase funding through general taxation. I might not like another 1p in the £ increase in income tax, but it would certainly be fairer than targeting one group (let alone all the unintended consequences already listed and the impact on low income families in pvt system). Also the false narrative about parents getting a “tax break” needs to be called out. How is it a tax break if VAT has NEVER been applied to the provision of education? It’s not as if the Govt at some point tried to incentivise take up by reducing taxes (ie give a tax break) because the tax has NEVER applied to education. There is no tax break. Do people who take out private medical insurance and get treated for healthcare privately get “tax breaks”?But it's all about perception. If Mr Average has to pay VAT on the things he buys then he thinks everyone should pay VAT on their purchases. When the 7% don't pay VAT on something then the 93% feel aggrieved and it looks like they are getting some kind of break which they don't. Your saying that you wouldn't mind paying an extra penny in income tax and that would be fairer but not for everyone. What about those without kids, those who's kids have grown up, those who would never use the public school system. You say they are targeting one group and that's not fair but they are only 'targetting' those 7% who are sending their kids to such schools. So essentially they are now requiring them to pay VAT on what they choose to purchase, in this case private education. You mention the impact that this will have on low income families but if you can afford to send your kids to a private school you are not on what most people would consider to be a low income. Those gifted kids that gain bursaries may, and I say may because I don't think all bursaries will disappear, lose the opportunity to attend such schools but the fact remains that they will still be gifted. They were gifted before entering the private school system and will be gifted upon leaving it. Private education is a privileged system for the few not the many. Most people don't even give it much thought I suppose but when they do I can understand why the many think the few are taking the piss by using such a privileged system without paying the tax that everyone else has to pay on the things they buy. Like I said before I'm just playing devil's advocate but I can see why some view it like this, and how they view it as those in a privileged position using it to their advantage when this is not afforded to the rest of the population. Just saying... Mrs x 1. Then why do you not pay VAT on private healthcare? 2. The point on an income tax rise not being fair on those with no kids - every parent with a child in private school has already paid taxes for a public service they are not using but would have to if there was no choice. However, by not using the state school system they are saving tax payers £7.5k per child per year." On a very personal note I am glad that you don't pay VAT on private healthcare. In fact I didn't know you didn't, I do know it's very expensive though. However I wouldn't complain if t was introduced. As for your second point I think you are missing the fact that it's your choice to send your kids to private school. Nobody is forcing you. Life's not fair and this time it's affecting the 7% sending their children to private school. However life not being fair affects the 93% in more ways and to a harsher degree. So everyone needs to make their own choice. I just find it funny that private school fees are what they are because of market forces, supply and demand. And up to this point, whilst expensive, there's not been this outcry from those wishing to send their kids to these schools. However as soon as they are told to pay VAT on this purchase of education their is uproar. Maybe it's just because Labour have introduced this. I don't necessarily agree with this policy but I can understand the sentiment behind it if they want to use any funds raised to level up the playing fields for the 93% of those kids not privileged enough to go to such schools. Mrs x | |||
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"“We are convinced that the secretary of state for education, and the Department for Education and its civil servants haven’t taken our schools into consideration; it’s as though we do not exist.” Says it all really!playing Devils Advocate here but that statement could ring true for lots of Comprehensive Schools, which are failing through under funding. By trying to redress this issue for the vast majority of the school children in this country surely that should be a laudable thing. Unfortunately part of the plan means removing a tax break from more wealthy individuals. But surely it's painful for the few to benefit the many and surely as a principle that's a decent thing to do. But I have no skin in this right now, my child benefitted from the system but I wouldn't complain if he was still at such a school. It tough for those parents that are struggling but there are lots of areas that are tough in life, it's all about making difficult life decisions.. Mrs x Except your point ignores all the other points made. You know I won’t agree. If you charge VAT on education from one type of organisation then you need to do it for all (ie universities). Similarly why not apply VAT to private healthcare and insurance? I see this as punitive and targeted. If we want to increase funding for state schools (and I think we should) then why try to do that by effectively punishing people who are already saving taxpayers £4.5bn a year and relieving pressure on the system? Increase funding through general taxation. I might not like another 1p in the £ increase in income tax, but it would certainly be fairer than targeting one group (let alone all the unintended consequences already listed and the impact on low income families in pvt system). Also the false narrative about parents getting a “tax break” needs to be called out. How is it a tax break if VAT has NEVER been applied to the provision of education? It’s not as if the Govt at some point tried to incentivise take up by reducing taxes (ie give a tax break) because the tax has NEVER applied to education. There is no tax break. Do people who take out private medical insurance and get treated for healthcare privately get “tax breaks”?But it's all about perception. If Mr Average has to pay VAT on the things he buys then he thinks everyone should pay VAT on their purchases. When the 7% don't pay VAT on something then the 93% feel aggrieved and it looks like they are getting some kind of break which they don't. Your saying that you wouldn't mind paying an extra penny in income tax and that would be fairer but not for everyone. What about those without kids, those who's kids have grown up, those who would never use the public school system. You say they are targeting one group and that's not fair but they are only 'targetting' those 7% who are sending their kids to such schools. So essentially they are now requiring them to pay VAT on what they choose to purchase, in this case private education. You mention the impact that this will have on low income families but if you can afford to send your kids to a private school you are not on what most people would consider to be a low income. Those gifted kids that gain bursaries may, and I say may because I don't think all bursaries will disappear, lose the opportunity to attend such schools but the fact remains that they will still be gifted. They were gifted before entering the private school system and will be gifted upon leaving it. Private education is a privileged system for the few not the many. Most people don't even give it much thought I suppose but when they do I can understand why the many think the few are taking the piss by using such a privileged system without paying the tax that everyone else has to pay on the things they buy. Like I said before I'm just playing devil's advocate but I can see why some view it like this, and how they view it as those in a privileged position using it to their advantage when this is not afforded to the rest of the population. Just saying... Mrs x 1. Then why do you not pay VAT on private healthcare? 2. The point on an income tax rise not being fair on those with no kids - every parent with a child in private school has already paid taxes for a public service they are not using but would have to if there was no choice. However, by not using the state school system they are saving tax payers £7.5k per child per year.On a very personal note I am glad that you don't pay VAT on private healthcare. In fact I didn't know you didn't, I do know it's very expensive though. However I wouldn't complain if t was introduced. As for your second point I think you are missing the fact that it's your choice to send your kids to private school. Nobody is forcing you. Life's not fair and this time it's affecting the 7% sending their children to private school. However life not being fair affects the 93% in more ways and to a harsher degree. So everyone needs to make their own choice. I just find it funny that private school fees are what they are because of market forces, supply and demand. And up to this point, whilst expensive, there's not been this outcry from those wishing to send their kids to these schools. However as soon as they are told to pay VAT on this purchase of education their is uproar. Maybe it's just because Labour have introduced this. I don't necessarily agree with this policy but I can understand the sentiment behind it if they want to use any funds raised to level up the playing fields for the 93% of those kids not privileged enough to go to such schools. Mrs x " If you put VAT on private school fees then you should put VAT on private healthcare (and university fees if the Govt are saying education is no longer exempt). There is no reason for one and not the other. In both cases the state provides a service. In both cases people choose to spend their post tax net income to buy an alternative service. In both cases the fact that people do this relieves significant pressure from the state service and £billions is saved for HMT/taxpayers. So if you support VAT on private healthcare and insurance then you just pushed that out of reach of many people who can currently get it. As for no outcry until now, that is a rather silly argument. Who would the outcry be aimed at? If you can’t afford a thing you don’t buy a thing. But if you can but then one day the Govt makes it more expensive so you can’t then the outcry is directed at the Govt. Combine that with all the consequences and reality that the rich will be fine but others become collateral damage and it shows up what a totally flawed and stupid policy this is. Labour could have turned this into a positive by putting in place a minimum charitable activity threshold to retain charity status and therefore VAT exemption or accept VAT on fees. Some schools would have gone for the former and some for the latter with parent power playing a part. But instead they take a punitive approach that will have longer term far reaching consequences and in the end raise far less than expected. And doing it in January instead of September is simply spiteful and calculated to minimise the initial impact on numbers. | |||
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"saving us money on the bloated defense budget ... win win "The defence budget is not nearly high enough in these uncertain times. There is an element of waste that should have been better managed however an immediate 50% increase in the budget would be about right. | |||
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"Just a little side issue, can you explain why more than 1,100 private schools have closed from 2010 until present. What's the reasoning behind this? Mrs x" No idea? What am I the union rep for private schools 
Weird thing is that the Labour rhetoric is that private school fee increases over that period have not impacted on demand (ergo Govt increasing fees further won’t have an impact). So either the remaining schools got bigger or Labour are being disingenuous | |||
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"Absolutely 100% yes Vat should be added to pvt school fees" Why? | |||
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"Just a little side issue, can you explain why more than 1,100 private schools have closed from 2010 until present. What's the reasoning behind this? Mrs x No idea? What am I the union rep for private schools
Weird thing is that the Labour rhetoric is that private school fee increases over that period have not impacted on demand (ergo Govt increasing fees further won’t have an impact). So either the remaining schools got bigger or Labour are being disingenuous "It's just a huge amount of closures nobody seems to be discussing. Just wondering what the reasons were for this and also I wasn't just talking to you, this is a question for anyone. Considering there's only 2,000 plus private schools the loss of over 1,100 is quite dramatic. Maybe there just isn't the demand for places that people are suggesting there is given that over a third of schools have disappeared since the Tories came into power in 2010. Anyone, even school reps? Mrs x | |||
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"Just a little side issue, can you explain why more than 1,100 private schools have closed from 2010 until present. What's the reasoning behind this? Mrs x No idea? What am I the union rep for private schools
Weird thing is that the Labour rhetoric is that private school fee increases over that period have not impacted on demand (ergo Govt increasing fees further won’t have an impact). So either the remaining schools got bigger or Labour are being disingenuous It's just a huge amount of closures nobody seems to be discussing. Just wondering what the reasons were for this and also I wasn't just talking to you, this is a question for anyone.
Considering there's only 2,000 plus private schools the loss of over 1,100 is quite dramatic. Maybe there just isn't the demand for places that people are suggesting there is given that over a third of schools have disappeared since the Tories came into power in 2010.
Anyone, even school reps?
Mrs x"I’m not saying this is the reason but putting forward a suggestion, are more people paying for extra tuition whilst their child is still being educated within the public sector rather than the costs of full private education. | |||
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"Just a little side issue, can you explain why more than 1,100 private schools have closed from 2010 until present. What's the reasoning behind this? Mrs x No idea? What am I the union rep for private schools
Weird thing is that the Labour rhetoric is that private school fee increases over that period have not impacted on demand (ergo Govt increasing fees further won’t have an impact). So either the remaining schools got bigger or Labour are being disingenuous It's just a huge amount of closures nobody seems to be discussing. Just wondering what the reasons were for this and also I wasn't just talking to you, this is a question for anyone.
Considering there's only 2,000 plus private schools the loss of over 1,100 is quite dramatic. Maybe there just isn't the demand for places that people are suggesting there is given that over a third of schools have disappeared since the Tories came into power in 2010.
Anyone, even school reps?
Mrs x
I’m not saying this is the reason but putting forward a suggestion, are more people paying for extra tuition whilst their child is still being educated within the public sector rather than the costs of full private education.
"So your saying that some parents choose to supplement state education this way rather than choosing to pay the fees for a private education. Is that what you're saying. And if that's correct is it because they view that as a more cost effective solution and that private education is not cost effective in relation to the results it achieves for these parents and their children? Mrs x | |||
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"Just a little side issue, can you explain why more than 1,100 private schools have closed from 2010 until present. What's the reasoning behind this? Mrs x No idea? What am I the union rep for private schools
Weird thing is that the Labour rhetoric is that private school fee increases over that period have not impacted on demand (ergo Govt increasing fees further won’t have an impact). So either the remaining schools got bigger or Labour are being disingenuous It's just a huge amount of closures nobody seems to be discussing. Just wondering what the reasons were for this and also I wasn't just talking to you, this is a question for anyone.
Considering there's only 2,000 plus private schools the loss of over 1,100 is quite dramatic. Maybe there just isn't the demand for places that people are suggesting there is given that over a third of schools have disappeared since the Tories came into power in 2010.
Anyone, even school reps?
Mrs x
I’m not saying this is the reason but putting forward a suggestion, are more people paying for extra tuition whilst their child is still being educated within the public sector rather than the costs of full private education.
So your saying that some parents choose to supplement state education this way rather than choosing to pay the fees for a private education. Is that what you're saying.
And if that's correct is it because they view that as a more cost effective solution and that private education is not cost effective in relation to the results it achieves for these parents and their children?
Mrs x"If that is the case, the cost of private/extra tuition will be cheaper than private school fees. Also unlikely to include VAT | |||
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"Just a little side issue, can you explain why more than 1,100 private schools have closed from 2010 until present. What's the reasoning behind this? Mrs x No idea? What am I the union rep for private schools
Weird thing is that the Labour rhetoric is that private school fee increases over that period have not impacted on demand (ergo Govt increasing fees further won’t have an impact). So either the remaining schools got bigger or Labour are being disingenuous It's just a huge amount of closures nobody seems to be discussing. Just wondering what the reasons were for this and also I wasn't just talking to you, this is a question for anyone.
Considering there's only 2,000 plus private schools the loss of over 1,100 is quite dramatic. Maybe there just isn't the demand for places that people are suggesting there is given that over a third of schools have disappeared since the Tories came into power in 2010.
Anyone, even school reps?
Mrs x
I’m not saying this is the reason but putting forward a suggestion, are more people paying for extra tuition whilst their child is still being educated within the public sector rather than the costs of full private education.
So your saying that some parents choose to supplement state education this way rather than choosing to pay the fees for a private education. Is that what you're saying.
And if that's correct is it because they view that as a more cost effective solution and that private education is not cost effective in relation to the results it achieves for these parents and their children?
Mrs x"I’m suggesting that some parents may view the state school to be falling short of the level of education that they feel their child deserves and with ever increasing pressures on their finances are choosing to ‘top up’ the state education rather than leave it completely and have to fully fund a private education. | |||
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"Parents were paying for their children’s extra tuition when my kids were young and they are in their 40s now. This isn’t a new thing." They have. Particularly where they are trying to get a place in a selective grammar school. | |||
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"Parents were paying for their children’s extra tuition when my kids were young and they are in their 40s now. This isn’t a new thing." I don’t really follow your comment, I wasn’t saying kids getting additional tutoring was new | |||
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"Parents were paying for their children’s extra tuition when my kids were young and they are in their 40s now. This isn’t a new thing. I don’t really follow your comment, I wasn’t saying kids getting additional tutoring was new" I didn’t say you did. I was just pointing out my experience of additional tutoring. | |||
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"Absolutely 100% yes Vat should be added to pvt school fees" | |||
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"Parents were paying for their children’s extra tuition when my kids were young and they are in their 40s now. This isn’t a new thing. I don’t really follow your comment, I wasn’t saying kids getting additional tutoring was new I didn’t say you did. I was just pointing out my experience of additional tutoring." I have experience of having additional tutoring as a child. Not because I had a chance of gaining entry into selective education but due to the fact I had issues with learning as a child. I think I exhibited signs of a learning condition with, at the time, the most common label being known as being "Thick As Fuck" or as my German teacher repeatedly called me "Dummkopf". This was obviously at a time when these issues weren't as well known about or discussed. In fact if someone said they were "On the Spectrum" back then they'd have thought you were playing a computer game. So I did not excel academically and school was not for me. I think parents should accept that school is not for all kids and simply throwing money at the issue will not benefit everyone. Anyway I done ok since leaving school, after all there are lots of ways to give head, I mean get ahead and I seem to have done that quite well, although my knees may beg to differ... So it's all about choices, if you have money and want to spend it on education for your kids then do it. If you haven't then don't, I'm not sure that for the majority of kids it makes much of a difference. It's not what you know but more of what you do with what you know. I've met loads of super smart council estate kids who've done all sorts of wonderful things and have met lots of rich folk, who appear as thick as two short planks. It's about the individual rather than the money... But I could be wrong, like I said, academically I'm thick as fuck... Mrs x | |||
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"It will generate more revenue for public services, albeit not a massive amount but hopefully spent on reinvestment in the state ed system. Also many pvt schools benefit from 'Charitable Status' and are therefore exempt from paying VAT/ Corp Tax/ Commercial Rates. Furthermore they do are not taxed on gifts/dontations and other income. The fact is the toffs are still going to sent Tarquin and Cressida to the pvt schools and with clever accounting should be able to reclaim the VAT or offset the tax against their own liabilities, particularly if they run a business and fair fucks to them. There is some unfairness here though I have to admit - the parents that are marginally able to afford pvt ed now, once the VAT in introduced they may well be squezzed out and have to send their children to state schools. However, I am comforatble with this. Absolutely 100% yes Vat should be added to pvt school fees" “The Toffs” says it all really! Class war and politics of envy based on a total misunderstanding of the reality of the situation, the sector, or the knock on issues this will create | |||
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"Parents were paying for their children’s extra tuition when my kids were young and they are in their 40s now. This isn’t a new thing. I don’t really follow your comment, I wasn’t saying kids getting additional tutoring was new I didn’t say you did. I was just pointing out my experience of additional tutoring.I have experience of having additional tutoring as a child. Not because I had a chance of gaining entry into selective education but due to the fact I had issues with learning as a child. I think I exhibited signs of a learning condition with, at the time, the most common label being known as being "Thick As Fuck" or as my German teacher repeatedly called me "Dummkopf". This was obviously at a time when these issues weren't as well known about or discussed. In fact if someone said they were "On the Spectrum" back then they'd have thought you were playing a computer game. So I did not excel academically and school was not for me. I think parents should accept that school is not for all kids and simply throwing money at the issue will not benefit everyone. Anyway I done ok since leaving school, after all there are lots of ways to give head, I mean get ahead and I seem to have done that quite well, although my knees may beg to differ... So it's all about choices, if you have money and want to spend it on education for your kids then do it. If you haven't then don't, I'm not sure that for the majority of kids it makes much of a difference. It's not what you know but more of what you do with what you know. I've met loads of super smart council estate kids who've done all sorts of wonderful things and have met lots of rich folk, who appear as thick as two short planks. It's about the individual rather than the money... But I could be wrong, like I said, academically I'm thick as fuck... Mrs x " Intelligence is not purely about academics…and you are certainly not thick as fuck! Self deprecating for sure, but thick, no! | |||
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"Of course there is the theory that private schools are not about achieving better education but about the connections it gives you once you have left education." More than a theory. Totally true. However, smaller class sizes also means more attention and chances of achievement. A super intelligent child will likely thrive regardless (as long as they can focus and aren’t distracted by the disruptors). Thick kids will be thick no matter what. Where private school helps is those in the middle who get more chance to thrive and realise their potential. | |||
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"It will generate more revenue for public services, albeit not a massive amount but hopefully spent on reinvestment in the state ed system. Also many pvt schools benefit from 'Charitable Status' and are therefore exempt from paying VAT/ Corp Tax/ Commercial Rates. Furthermore they do are not taxed on gifts/dontations and other income. The fact is the toffs are still going to sent Tarquin and Cressida to the pvt schools and with clever accounting should be able to reclaim the VAT or offset the tax against their own liabilities, particularly if they run a business and fair fucks to them. There is some unfairness here though I have to admit - the parents that are marginally able to afford pvt ed now, once the VAT in introduced they may well be squezzed out and have to send their children to state schools. However, I am comforatble with this. Absolutely 100% yes Vat should be added to pvt school fees “The Toffs” says it all really! Class war and politics of envy based on a total misunderstanding of the reality of the situation, the sector, or the knock on issues this will create "But there is not just one reality here. The issue of so many private providers of education closing down and disappearing over 1,100 since 2010. There has to be a reason behind this but no one seems to talk about this. The only thing that's being discussed is the VAT issue. However you yourself posted that due to this change schools could be better off by a change in their circumstances and some can't wait for tge change. Yet these schools are still passing on the increase to parents. That seems very cynical to me and is maybe a reason for this huge decline in the private sector. They've been acting like businesses instead of like charities, only interested in profit and their own survival. Maybe the schools that have closed during this period were not providing value for money. Maybe they suffered from not being able to attract 'customers', for want of a better word, and like any 'firm' that struggles to do this they have to close. But maybe I'm wrong but no ones explained this issue. Also can I ask who sets tge fees for private schools, is it the school itself or is the re a 'board' that regulates this? Mrs x | |||
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"It will generate more revenue for public services, albeit not a massive amount but hopefully spent on reinvestment in the state ed system. Also many pvt schools benefit from 'Charitable Status' and are therefore exempt from paying VAT/ Corp Tax/ Commercial Rates. Furthermore they do are not taxed on gifts/dontations and other income. The fact is the toffs are still going to sent Tarquin and Cressida to the pvt schools and with clever accounting should be able to reclaim the VAT or offset the tax against their own liabilities, particularly if they run a business and fair fucks to them. There is some unfairness here though I have to admit - the parents that are marginally able to afford pvt ed now, once the VAT in introduced they may well be squezzed out and have to send their children to state schools. However, I am comforatble with this. Absolutely 100% yes Vat should be added to pvt school fees “The Toffs” says it all really! Class war and politics of envy based on a total misunderstanding of the reality of the situation, the sector, or the knock on issues this will create But there is not just one reality here. The issue of so many private providers of education closing down and disappearing over 1,100 since 2010.
There has to be a reason behind this but no one seems to talk about this. The only thing that's being discussed is the VAT issue. However you yourself posted that due to this change schools could be better off by a change in their circumstances and some can't wait for tge change. Yet these schools are still passing on the increase to parents. That seems very cynical to me and is maybe a reason for this huge decline in the private sector. They've been acting like businesses instead of like charities, only interested in profit and their own survival.
Maybe the schools that have closed during this period were not providing value for money. Maybe they suffered from not being able to attract 'customers', for want of a better word, and like any 'firm' that struggles to do this they have to close.
But maybe I'm wrong but no ones explained this issue.
Also can I ask who sets tge fees for private schools, is it the school itself or is the re a 'board' that regulates this?
Mrs x"I would have hoped by now with the multiple posts by numerous posters across many threads, that we would have established that “private schools” ie schools for which you pay a fee to attend and the child’s place is not funded by tax payers, is not a homogenous single thing. There is a broad range of educational establishments under that heading and being affected by this VAT policy. For every high profile school who look set to be reaping some benefit from back claiming VAT on capital investment while also still passing on the VAT on fees to customers, there are multiple schools not doing this, faith schools, SEN specialists, performing arts based schools etc. Also this point on schools closing down, possibly (likely) due to not having enough customers…How does that square with Labour’s rhetoric that there is no price sensitivity and that pupil numbers have remained consistent? | |||
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"It will generate more revenue for public services, albeit not a massive amount but hopefully spent on reinvestment in the state ed system. Also many pvt schools benefit from 'Charitable Status' and are therefore exempt from paying VAT/ Corp Tax/ Commercial Rates. Furthermore they do are not taxed on gifts/dontations and other income. The fact is the toffs are still going to sent Tarquin and Cressida to the pvt schools and with clever accounting should be able to reclaim the VAT or offset the tax against their own liabilities, particularly if they run a business and fair fucks to them. There is some unfairness here though I have to admit - the parents that are marginally able to afford pvt ed now, once the VAT in introduced they may well be squezzed out and have to send their children to state schools. However, I am comforatble with this. Absolutely 100% yes Vat should be added to pvt school fees “The Toffs” says it all really! Class war and politics of envy based on a total misunderstanding of the reality of the situation, the sector, or the knock on issues this will create But there is not just one reality here. The issue of so many private providers of education closing down and disappearing over 1,100 since 2010.
There has to be a reason behind this but no one seems to talk about this. The only thing that's being discussed is the VAT issue. However you yourself posted that due to this change schools could be better off by a change in their circumstances and some can't wait for tge change. Yet these schools are still passing on the increase to parents. That seems very cynical to me and is maybe a reason for this huge decline in the private sector. They've been acting like businesses instead of like charities, only interested in profit and their own survival.
Maybe the schools that have closed during this period were not providing value for money. Maybe they suffered from not being able to attract 'customers', for want of a better word, and like any 'firm' that struggles to do this they have to close.
But maybe I'm wrong but no ones explained this issue.
Also can I ask who sets tge fees for private schools, is it the school itself or is the re a 'board' that regulates this?
Mrs x
I would have hoped by now with the multiple posts by numerous posters across many threads, that we would have established that “private schools” ie schools for which you pay a fee to attend and the child’s place is not funded by tax payers, is not a homogenous single thing. There is a broad range of educational establishments under that heading and being affected by this VAT policy.
For every high profile school who look set to be reaping some benefit from back claiming VAT on capital investment while also still passing on the VAT on fees to customers, there are multiple schools not doing this, faith schools, SEN specialists, performing arts based schools etc.
Also this point on schools closing down, possibly (likely) due to not having enough customers…How does that square with Labour’s rhetoric that there is no price sensitivity and that pupil numbers have remained consistent?"… because the policy is not fully thought through. It was designed as a headline grabber, pretending that every independent school is Eton or Harrow, and making their supporters think they were robbing the rich | |||
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"It will generate more revenue for public services, albeit not a massive amount but hopefully spent on reinvestment in the state ed system. Also many pvt schools benefit from 'Charitable Status' and are therefore exempt from paying VAT/ Corp Tax/ Commercial Rates. Furthermore they do are not taxed on gifts/dontations and other income. The fact is the toffs are still going to sent Tarquin and Cressida to the pvt schools and with clever accounting should be able to reclaim the VAT or offset the tax against their own liabilities, particularly if they run a business and fair fucks to them. There is some unfairness here though I have to admit - the parents that are marginally able to afford pvt ed now, once the VAT in introduced they may well be squezzed out and have to send their children to state schools. However, I am comforatble with this. Absolutely 100% yes Vat should be added to pvt school fees “The Toffs” says it all really! Class war and politics of envy based on a total misunderstanding of the reality of the situation, the sector, or the knock on issues this will create But there is not just one reality here. The issue of so many private providers of education closing down and disappearing over 1,100 since 2010.
There has to be a reason behind this but no one seems to talk about this. The only thing that's being discussed is the VAT issue. However you yourself posted that due to this change schools could be better off by a change in their circumstances and some can't wait for tge change. Yet these schools are still passing on the increase to parents. That seems very cynical to me and is maybe a reason for this huge decline in the private sector. They've been acting like businesses instead of like charities, only interested in profit and their own survival.
Maybe the schools that have closed during this period were not providing value for money. Maybe they suffered from not being able to attract 'customers', for want of a better word, and like any 'firm' that struggles to do this they have to close.
But maybe I'm wrong but no ones explained this issue.
Also can I ask who sets tge fees for private schools, is it the school itself or is the re a 'board' that regulates this?
Mrs x
I would have hoped by now with the multiple posts by numerous posters across many threads, that we would have established that “private schools” ie schools for which you pay a fee to attend and the child’s place is not funded by tax payers, is not a homogenous single thing. There is a broad range of educational establishments under that heading and being affected by this VAT policy.
For every high profile school who look set to be reaping some benefit from back claiming VAT on capital investment while also still passing on the VAT on fees to customers, there are multiple schools not doing this, faith schools, SEN specialists, performing arts based schools etc.
Also this point on schools closing down, possibly (likely) due to not having enough customers…How does that square with Labour’s rhetoric that there is no price sensitivity and that pupil numbers have remained consistent?
… because the policy is not fully thought through. It was designed as a headline grabber, pretending that every independent school is Eton or Harrow, and making their supporters think they were robbing the rich "Precisely. Yet anyone reading this thread and the various posts I have quoted will see how far from the truth that is! | |||
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"“Members of a campaign group opposing plans to apply VAT to private school fees have targeted Bridget Phillipson, the education secretary, with personal abuse, accusing her of aping the tactics of Nazi Germany and labelling her a “vile hag”. (g) " That’s sad to hear. Nasty way to behave, and completely undermine’s a group’s credibility, making them easy to dismiss. | |||
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"“Members of a campaign group opposing plans to apply VAT to private school fees have targeted Bridget Phillipson, the education secretary, with personal abuse, accusing her of aping the tactics of Nazi Germany and labelling her a “vile hag”. (g) " The nazi party were renowned for their fiendish use of VAT. | |||
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"“Members of a campaign group opposing plans to apply VAT to private school fees have targeted Bridget Phillipson, the education secretary, with personal abuse, accusing her of aping the tactics of Nazi Germany and labelling her a “vile hag”. (g) " In every protest group there are dimwits, dullards, and dastardly agent provocateurs! It doesn’t remotely reflect the majority with valid concerns. Weed them out and if hate crime can be demonstrated, prosecute them! | |||
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"Blackbeltbarrister has put an interesting video up about this VAT on school fees being illegal due to age discrimination. Go watch as quite interesting" Can't find his profile, so cannot see the video. Any chance you could explain why it's illegal due to age discrimination? Mrs x | |||
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"yes. people are fed up of subsidising luxury education Assume you think private health insurance should be subject to VAT as well? Despite how it relieves pressure on the NHS! And you don’t care that each kid in private school saves tax payers £7.5k per year, ie £4.5bn per year." Tell us how many have private health insurance and also the saving to the NHS | |||
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"yes. people are fed up of subsidising luxury education Assume you think private health insurance should be subject to VAT as well? Despite how it relieves pressure on the NHS! And you don’t care that each kid in private school saves tax payers £7.5k per year, ie £4.5bn per year. Tell us how many have private health insurance and also the saving to the NHS" Feel free to do your own research and then come back and you tell us | |||
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"“Members of a campaign group opposing plans to apply VAT to private school fees have targeted Bridget Phillipson, the education secretary, with personal abuse, accusing her of aping the tactics of Nazi Germany and labelling her a “vile hag”. (g) " When the Tories were in power they were compared to the Nazis on a daily basis by the likes of Novara Media, The Canary etc. That's no to mention the relentless ad hominem attacks on senior Tories or outbursts by the likes of Rayner labelling their opposition as 'scum'. The left opened the floodgates to this behaviour, and whilst I condemn it, I'm not surprised to see it. | |||
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"I went to an independent school; my dad was a lorry driver and my mum was a housewife. We didn't have central heating or a TV and in the winter we had to bath in a tin bath in front of the fire. The majority of kids at my school were either from a military background or farming type families. There was one guy who I'd have considered to be an aristo type. You seem to have a massive chip on your shoulder for some reason. I'm sure I could hazard a number of guesses as to why a man of your age might be so bitter and twisted about parents striving to provide the best for their kids. Like most who seem in favour of this policy, you bleat and whine about class, proving the point that this move is nothing more than gesture politics to satisfy the hunger of the left regardless of the real world implications. Pathetic. " Which poster is your last two paragraphs aimed at? | |||
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"Blackbeltbarrister has put an interesting video up about this VAT on school fees being illegal due to age discrimination. Go watch as quite interesting Can't find his profile, so cannot see the video. Any chance you could explain why it's illegal due to age discrimination? Mrs x" He is on YouTube The basic premise is that as your not charging VAT on College fees then it’s age discrimination | |||
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"Blackbeltbarrister has put an interesting video up about this VAT on school fees being illegal due to age discrimination. Go watch as quite interesting Can't find his profile, so cannot see the video. Any chance you could explain why it's illegal due to age discrimination? Mrs x He is on YouTube The basic premise is that as your not charging VAT on College fees then it’s age discrimination " Thanks for that, Mrs x | |||
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"I went to an independent school; my dad was a lorry driver and my mum was a housewife. We didn't have central heating or a TV and in the winter we had to bath in a tin bath in front of the fire. The majority of kids at my school were either from a military background or farming type families. There was one guy who I'd have considered to be an aristo type. You seem to have a massive chip on your shoulder for some reason. I'm sure I could hazard a number of guesses as to why a man of your age might be so bitter and twisted about parents striving to provide the best for their kids. Like most who seem in favour of this policy, you bleat and whine about class, proving the point that this move is nothing more than gesture politics to satisfy the hunger of the left regardless of the real world implications. Pathetic. Which poster is your last two paragraphs aimed at?" Well if you have to ask...  Mrs x | |||
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"That suddenly turned into the 4 Yorkshire men sketch" What's that then? Mrs x | |||
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"I went to an independent school; my dad was a lorry driver and my mum was a housewife. We didn't have central heating or a TV and in the winter we had to bath in a tin bath in front of the fire. The majority of kids at my school were either from a military background or farming type families. There was one guy who I'd have considered to be an aristo type. You seem to have a massive chip on your shoulder for some reason. I'm sure I could hazard a number of guesses as to why a man of your age might be so bitter and twisted about parents striving to provide the best for their kids. Like most who seem in favour of this policy, you bleat and whine about class, proving the point that this move is nothing more than gesture politics to satisfy the hunger of the left regardless of the real world implications. Pathetic. Which poster is your last two paragraphs aimed at?Well if you have to ask... Mrs x"I like to be sure. When people do not reply+quote it isn’t always obvious who they are talking to. | |||
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"That suddenly turned into the 4 Yorkshire men sketchWhat's that then? Mrs x" Now you two are showing your age! I have no idea what you are on about? | |||
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"That suddenly turned into the 4 Yorkshire men sketchWhat's that then? Mrs x Now you two are showing your age! I have no idea what you are on about?" Monty Python. "When I were a lad we had nowt" | |||
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"That suddenly turned into the 4 Yorkshire men sketchWhat's that then? Mrs x Now you two are showing your age! I have no idea what you are on about? Monty Python. "When I were a lad we had nowt"" Loved that it's still funny now, Mrs x | |||
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"That suddenly turned into the 4 Yorkshire men sketchWhat's that then? Mrs x Now you two are showing your age! I have no idea what you are on about?" Old??? Feck off, we are classics, Mrs x | |||
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"That suddenly turned into the 4 Yorkshire men sketchWhat's that then? Mrs x Now you two are showing your age! I have no idea what you are on about?Old??? Feck off, we are classics, Mrs x" Good bodywork but crap engine? | |||
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"That suddenly turned into the 4 Yorkshire men sketchWhat's that then? Mrs x Now you two are showing your age! I have no idea what you are on about?Old??? Feck off, we are classics, Mrs x Good bodywork but crap engine? "Crap engine, omg it's getting worse, you be calling me a 'rust bucket' next.... Mrs x | |||
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"That suddenly turned into the 4 Yorkshire men sketchWhat's that then? Mrs x Now you two are showing your age! I have no idea what you are on about?Old??? Feck off, we are classics, Mrs x Good bodywork but crap engine? Crap engine, omg it's getting worse, you be calling me a 'rust bucket' next.... Mrs x"Only if the body work is full of “fill her” | |||
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"That suddenly turned into the 4 Yorkshire men sketchWhat's that then? Mrs x Now you two are showing your age! I have no idea what you are on about?Old??? Feck off, we are classics, Mrs x Good bodywork but crap engine? Crap engine, omg it's getting worse, you be calling me a 'rust bucket' next.... Mrs x
Only if the body work is full of “fill her” "To be honest I have had a fair bit of 'fill her' over the years, Mrs x | |||
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"That suddenly turned into the 4 Yorkshire men sketchWhat's that then? Mrs x Now you two are showing your age! I have no idea what you are on about?Old??? Feck off, we are classics, Mrs x Good bodywork but crap engine? Crap engine, omg it's getting worse, you be calling me a 'rust bucket' next.... Mrs x
Only if the body work is full of “fill her” To be honest I have had a fair bit of 'fill her' over the years,
Mrs x"Was being tongue in cheek. Then again I know you like that | |||
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"That suddenly turned into the 4 Yorkshire men sketchWhat's that then? Mrs x Now you two are showing your age! I have no idea what you are on about?Old??? Feck off, we are classics, Mrs x Good bodywork but crap engine? Crap engine, omg it's getting worse, you be calling me a 'rust bucket' next.... Mrs x
Only if the body work is full of “fill her” To be honest I have had a fair bit of 'fill her' over the years,
Mrs x
Was being tongue in cheek. Then again I know you like that "Very cheeky, Mrs x | |||
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"Doubt anyone is reading but I will keep posting… ++++ “They’re not “rich”, many insist – they’re simply average people working very hard to send their kids to above-average schools. Swathes say they chose, or had to choose, private education to meet their children’s special education needs (SEN), such as ADHD or dyslexia. “It just makes me really, really angry,” says Johanna*, an NHS nurse whose 15-year-old goes to school in northwest England. She’s withholding her identity to protect her son, who is adopted. He was badly bullied in state school, which left her no option but to homeschool him until they found the small independent school he attends now, which costs just over £3,000 per term. “It’s going to cost the government more to educate him in a state school because he needs a teaching assistant with him all the time.” “When I speak to other parents, everyone is panicking because their children aren’t coping in these large, hostile [state school] environments.” Johanna, whose son wishes to be a doctor, added, “I’m not a millionaire, I’m not posh. I’m going to have to take out a loan or remortgage if it goes up any more.” ++++ Fuck the kids though, they’re all just rich toffs right?" Yeah I think most have picked up you're not a happy bunny on this. | |||
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"Doubt anyone is reading but I will keep posting… ++++ “They’re not “rich”, many insist – they’re simply average people working very hard to send their kids to above-average schools. Swathes say they chose, or had to choose, private education to meet their children’s special education needs (SEN), such as ADHD or dyslexia. “It just makes me really, really angry,” says Johanna*, an NHS nurse whose 15-year-old goes to school in northwest England. She’s withholding her identity to protect her son, who is adopted. He was badly bullied in state school, which left her no option but to homeschool him until they found the small independent school he attends now, which costs just over £3,000 per term. “It’s going to cost the government more to educate him in a state school because he needs a teaching assistant with him all the time.” “When I speak to other parents, everyone is panicking because their children aren’t coping in these large, hostile [state school] environments.” Johanna, whose son wishes to be a doctor, added, “I’m not a millionaire, I’m not posh. I’m going to have to take out a loan or remortgage if it goes up any more.” ++++ Fuck the kids though, they’re all just rich toffs right? Yeah I think most have picked up you're not a happy bunny on this." What gave you that impression | |||
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