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Well that will take a bite out of the Apple!

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By *atEvolution OP   Couple
11 weeks ago

atlantisEVOLUTION Swingers Club. Stoke

https://news.sky.com/story/apple-required-to-pay-ireland-11bn-after-illegal-state-aid-case-13212321

****** Apple 'required' to pay Ireland £11bn after illegal state aid case

The iPhone maker no longer has a further avenue of appeal as the European Union's top court said its decision in the case, which has run for eight years, was final. ******

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By *ostindreamsMan
11 weeks ago

London

So Ireland had some tax rebates for Apple in an effort to attract investments from big companies. Ireland still says they don't want the money. But the European court is forcing Apple to pay Ireland the fine.

The EU's anti-business stance has killed off economic growth already. It looks like they are trying real hard to compensate for it by imposing fines on successful American companies.

Anyway, the EU as an economic entity is an old man walking into irrelevance. They missed the tech boom. They already killed off the AI boom with their regulations. As EU's contribution to the global economy keeps going down, these companies will stop giving a fuck about them in the near future. I wonder who the EU will fine after that

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By *lfasoCouple
11 weeks ago

South East

Essentially, Ireland, as a sovereign nation, cannot decide on domestic financial policy but must follow the rules of the EU. It doesn't sound like the kind of independence Ireland would have accepted in the past.

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By *oubleswing2019Man
11 weeks ago

Colchester


"So Ireland had some tax rebates for Apple in an effort to attract investments from big companies. Ireland still says they don't want the money. But the European court is forcing Apple to pay Ireland the fine.

The EU's anti-business stance has killed off economic growth already. It looks like they are trying real hard to compensate for it by imposing fines on successful American companies.

Anyway, the EU as an economic entity is an old man walking into irrelevance. They missed the tech boom. They already killed off the AI boom with their regulations. As EU's contribution to the global economy keeps going down, these companies will stop giving a fuck about them in the near future. I wonder who the EU will fine after that "

Is one way to look at it. From a corrupt point of view at least.

Ireland created the situation by offering more favourable tax advantages to Apple. It was not in their remit to do so.

It would be like me owning a city and inviting business to set up shop. But that other business over there ? They get special "treatment".

That is "market distortion", because it allows Apple an easier ride than everyone else. That's not competitive, and if anything is anti-competitive. Special treatment creates special problems. And this problem was of Ireland's own making. Because they deprived themselves of tax revenue which could have been spent on their own citizens, to better their own infrastructure.

I see no moral position of any merit in allowing Apple this "break". It stinks of corruption and the EU Judges quite rightly called it. The citizens should be calling for the heads of government who rubber-stamped this fiasco. In essence, they sanctioned tax evasion, because that is what this case has turned in to. It was tax avoidance before (which is still morally dubious, but is a fluffier version of evasion with "wriggle room" to be just on the right side of the law. That needs dealing with next, but that's another discussion).

Apple avoided tax. Period. And the Irish government (an EU-Member) facilitated that. Illegally.

The law has spoken and ruled. That is how the law works.

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By *resesse_MelioremCouple
11 weeks ago

Border of London


"So Ireland had some tax rebates for Apple in an effort to attract investments from big companies. Ireland still says they don't want the money. But the European court is forcing Apple to pay Ireland the fine.

The EU's anti-business stance has killed off economic growth already. It looks like they are trying real hard to compensate for it by imposing fines on successful American companies.

Anyway, the EU as an economic entity is an old man walking into irrelevance. They missed the tech boom. They already killed off the AI boom with their regulations. As EU's contribution to the global economy keeps going down, these companies will stop giving a fuck about them in the near future. I wonder who the EU will fine after that

Is one way to look at it. From a corrupt point of view at least.

Ireland created the situation by offering more favourable tax advantages to Apple. It was not in their remit to do so.

It would be like me owning a city and inviting business to set up shop. But that other business over there ? They get special "treatment".

That is "market distortion", because it allows Apple an easier ride than everyone else. That's not competitive, and if anything is anti-competitive. Special treatment creates special problems. And this problem was of Ireland's own making. Because they deprived themselves of tax revenue which could have been spent on their own citizens, to better their own infrastructure.

I see no moral position of any merit in allowing Apple this "break". It stinks of corruption and the EU Judges quite rightly called it. The citizens should be calling for the heads of government who rubber-stamped this fiasco. In essence, they sanctioned tax evasion, because that is what this case has turned in to. It was tax avoidance before (which is still morally dubious, but is a fluffier version of evasion with "wriggle room" to be just on the right side of the law. That needs dealing with next, but that's another discussion).

Apple avoided tax. Period. And the Irish government (an EU-Member) facilitated that. Illegally.

The law has spoken and ruled. That is how the law works."

Are you suggesting that the Apple/Ireland deal was (when all is said and done) against the interests of Ireland?

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By (user no longer on site)
11 weeks ago


"Anyway, the EU as an economic entity is an old man walking into irrelevance. They missed the tech boom. They already killed off the AI boom with their regulations. As EU's contribution to the global economy keeps going down, these companies will stop giving a fuck about them in the near future. I wonder who the EU will fine after that "

The main company, only viable company, in the world that is capable of making the machines that microchip manufacturers like TSMC use to mass produce microchips is a Dutch company. ASML Holdings is the name, look it up.

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By *ostindreamsMan
11 weeks ago

London


"

Ireland created the situation by offering more favourable tax advantages to Apple. It was not in their remit to do so.

"

Why is it not in their remit to do so? They are a sovereign country for sure? Plenty of countries have saved companies from going down or given special rebates to companies for the sake of employment opportunities.


"

It would be like me owning a city and inviting business to set up shop. But that other business over there ? They get special "treatment".

"

Whether the outcome of it is economically good for the country or not is up for debate. But it's perfectly legal and most other countries do this.


"

That is "market distortion", because it allows Apple an easier ride than everyone else. That's not competitive, and if anything is anti-competitive. Special treatment creates special problems. And this problem was of Ireland's own making. Because they deprived themselves of tax revenue which could have been spent on their own citizens, to better their own infrastructure.

"

Again, it's Ireland's decision and nothing illegal about it. Tell me how manu competitors of Apple does Ireland have?


"

I see no moral position of any merit in allowing Apple this "break". It stinks of corruption and the EU Judges quite rightly called it.

"

Ireland has lot of big tech investments because their tax policies favour them. You could cry all about the morality of it. But Ireland is supposed to be a sovereign country. What they do with their tax policy is none of other people's business. Even if Ireland is at fault, why is Apple being punished for it?


"

Apple avoided tax. Period. And the Irish government (an EU-Member) facilitated that. Illegally.

The law has spoken and ruled. That is how the law works."

If the Irish government gave them rebates, how exactly is that illegal?

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By *ostindreamsMan
11 weeks ago

London


"Anyway, the EU as an economic entity is an old man walking into irrelevance. They missed the tech boom. They already killed off the AI boom with their regulations. As EU's contribution to the global economy keeps going down, these companies will stop giving a fuck about them in the near future. I wonder who the EU will fine after that

The main company, only viable company, in the world that is capable of making the machines that microchip manufacturers like TSMC use to mass produce microchips is a Dutch company. ASML Holdings is the name, look it up."

I can also add Spotify to the list.

EU has about 25% more number of people than the US. Compare the number of globally successful tech companies in the US with the EU. Even the Spotify CEO slammed the EU for its AI regulations.

Europe is supposed to be the best at automobile manufacturing with lots of well known brands. And they are limping behind the global competition on EVs. They ended up imposing huge tariffs on the Chinese cars while also telling people that they need to adopt EVs.

So yes, EU as an economic zone is slowly walking into irrelevance.

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By *oubleswing2019Man
11 weeks ago

Colchester

Holy moley, we've all got this wrong and misinterpreted. That'll teach me for taking the media reports at face value.

https://www.loyensloeff.com/insights/news--events/news/cjeu-rules-against-apple-in-landmark-state-aid-case/#:~:text=On%2010%20September%202024%2C%20the,more%20than%20EUR%2013%20billion.

.

-The primary line of reasoning relied on the fact that the foreign head offices had no employees and substance and therefore could not perform the functions and bear the risks related to certain IP assets that are key value-generating assets. The Commission argued that the functions and risks were therefore necessarily to be allocated to the Irish branches which, in its view, performed much more than low value-adding routine functions.

-The subsidiary line of reasoning accepted the allocation of the IP assets (and related share of profits) outside of Ireland but claimed there were several mistakes in the application of the transfer pricing method known as ‘TNMM’ (transactional net margin method).

-The alternative line of reasoning in part relied on the subsidiary line and also argued that the discretion of the Irish tax authorities in granting the rulings was excessively broad, thereby resulting in a selective advantage granted to the two Apple group companies.

.

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