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"Irrelevant of the arguments and your political allegiance with the Tories and labour, is there any reason that a compromise between the two POVs can't be met with a sliding scale of winter payments? Seems ridiculously sensible to me so maybe that's the problem???" The benefit of having a simple payment for all is that it's very easy to implement. Let people register and prove their age, then pay them. A sliding scale means that you have to set up a system to keep track of all of those people's earnings, you have to create and maintain a system to do the calculations, you have to reclaim money if a person gets some unexpected extra income, you have to create and maintain a system for handling appeals, you have to start chasing those that fraudulently claim more than they're entitled to, etc, etc. For payments as small as a few hundred pounds a year, it's just not worth the expense of trying to come up with something 'fairer'. | |||
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"Irrelevant of the arguments and your political allegiance with the Tories and labour, is there any reason that a compromise between the two POVs can't be met with a sliding scale of winter payments? Seems ridiculously sensible to me so maybe that's the problem??? There's 1m+ unemployed, get them into paid work dealing with all the issues you mention and let's have have a "can do" attitude....or god forbid use AI The benefit of having a simple payment for all is that it's very easy to implement. Let people register and prove their age, then pay them. A sliding scale means that you have to set up a system to keep track of all of those people's earnings, you have to create and maintain a system to do the calculations, you have to reclaim money if a person gets some unexpected extra income, you have to create and maintain a system for handling appeals, you have to start chasing those that fraudulently claim more than they're entitled to, etc, etc. For payments as small as a few hundred pounds a year, it's just not worth the expense of trying to come up with something 'fairer'." | |||
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"The other thing is that the government are going to start a campaign to get people to sign up for pension credit For as much as we like to complain… there are about a million people entitled to it that are not getting it at the moment… and at least those people would still get their WFA" But how many are computer illiterate? | |||
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"The other thing is that the government are going to start a campaign to get people to sign up for pension credit For as much as we like to complain… there are about a million people entitled to it that are not getting it at the moment… and at least those people would still get their WFA But how many are computer illiterate? " There is a telephone number campaign coming to highlight pension credit Also… for those people first time eligible for winter fuel.. they would need to ring up a number anyway | |||
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"As I put in another post on here about WFA. To claim the allowance you need to fill in a 22 page 243 question form. I think someone else posted about doing over phone. 243 questions to answer over a phone . ? Can be done online . My elderly neighbours in their eighties do not have internet or smartphone. Others again said how many elderly people could do online. So will be very little uptake. " I would have thought most (not all) elderly people would have a relative, friend or carer that could help them apply. | |||
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"As I put in another post on here about WFA. To claim the allowance you need to fill in a 22 page 243 question form. I think someone else posted about doing over phone. 243 questions to answer over a phone . ? Can be done online . My elderly neighbours in their eighties do not have internet or smartphone. Others again said how many elderly people could do online. So will be very little uptake. I would have thought most (not all) elderly people would have a relative, friend or carer that could help them apply." 800.000 haven't so far - makes you ask why really and kinda' proves that lots don't. If the goverment are seeing this as a solution, why aren't they campaigning with targeted leaflets etc. It's not like they don't know who isn't claiming. | |||
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"As I put in another post on here about WFA. To claim the allowance you need to fill in a 22 page 243 question form. I think someone else posted about doing over phone. 243 questions to answer over a phone . ? Can be done online . My elderly neighbours in their eighties do not have internet or smartphone. Others again said how many elderly people could do online. So will be very little uptake. I would have thought most (not all) elderly people would have a relative, friend or carer that could help them apply. 80.000 haven't so far - makes you ask why really and kinda' proves that lots don't. If the goverment are seeing this as a solution, why aren't they campaigning with targeted leaflets etc. It's not like they don't know who isn't claiming." I would add to this how many people . Will want relatives, family friend or carer to know full details of incomes , bank accounts etc. ? | |||
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" 800.000 haven't so far - makes you ask why really and kinda' proves that lots don't. If the goverment are seeing this as a solution, why aren't they campaigning with targeted leaflets etc. It's not like they don't know who isn't claiming." I can tell you that it’s actually coming….. Citizens advice bureau’s for example, Age UK being another one.. there is also a radio and television advertising blitz coming… so this is one of those “be patient “ things The normal opening lines for winter fuel allowance anyway dont open till mid October Honestly it is coming…. | |||
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"Labour have done fuck all for the economy, despite Reeves campaign saying all the taxes would come from economic growth policies. " yes, they've had 3 whole days now god damn it .... what the fuck have they been upto since monday morning and why aren't there herds of unicorns shitting gold bricks in everyones front room like they promised? | |||
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"Labour have done fuck all for the economy, despite Reeves campaign saying all the taxes would come from economic growth policies. yes, they've had 3 whole days now god damn it .... what the fuck have they been upto since monday morning and why aren't there herds of unicorns shitting gold bricks in everyones front room like they promised?" 3 days? 🙄 | |||
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"Well if the MP's vote it down and then 800,000 pensioners apply for pension credits etc. Wouldn't that be a MAJOR financial f*up for the government?" Given the labour majority and SKS telling his MP's how to vote, it is highly unlikely to be voted down. They know this and know this is the time to get unpopular things through. So 10 million pensioners to be affected and many to go into fuel poverty as a result. Some pensioners are trying to organise protest by stopping the voluntary work they do which saves others quite a bit of money. Maybe they should join a union to guarantee a seat on the Labour gravy train | |||
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"Well if the MP's vote it down and then 800,000 pensioners apply for pension credits etc. Wouldn't that be a MAJOR financial f*up for the government? Given the labour majority and SKS telling his MP's how to vote, it is highly unlikely to be voted down. They know this and know this is the time to get unpopular things through. So 10 million pensioners to be affected and many to go into fuel poverty as a result. Some pensioners are trying to organise protest by stopping the voluntary work they do which saves others quite a bit of money. Maybe they should join a union to guarantee a seat on the Labour gravy train" cunning plan | |||
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"Well if the MP's vote it down and then 800,000 pensioners apply for pension credits etc. Wouldn't that be a MAJOR financial f*up for the government?" I think if about 600k 75%, take it up it will break even and means the £1.4bn goes to the poorest rather than people like my parents who don't need it. | |||
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"Maybe those hard done by £65k train drivers will soon become "those with the broadest shoulders".... maybe not " Well done in buying into the division that some seek to maintain.. | |||
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"Maybe those hard done by £65k train drivers will soon become "those with the broadest shoulders".... maybe not Well done in buying into the division that some seek to maintain.. " Thank you, anytime you need a reality check | |||
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"Maybe those hard done by £65k train drivers will soon become "those with the broadest shoulders".... maybe not Well done in buying into the division that some seek to maintain.. Thank you, anytime you need a reality check " I'm not in need of one so thanks for the offer but will decline ta.. Ps if you want to address your seemingly confused anger somewhere take a few minutes and look into how much is lost to the exchequer by tax evasion.. | |||
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"Maybe those hard done by £65k train drivers will soon become "those with the broadest shoulders".... maybe not " I doubt it. Their trade union bankrolls Labour. It's easier to freeze the elderly. | |||
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"Irrelevant of the arguments and your political allegiance with the Tories and labour, is there any reason that a compromise between the two POVs can't be met with a sliding scale of winter payments? Seems ridiculously sensible to me so maybe that's the problem??? The benefit of having a simple payment for all is that it's very easy to implement. Let people register and prove their age, then pay them. A sliding scale means that you have to set up a system to keep track of all of those people's earnings, you have to create and maintain a system to do the calculations, you have to reclaim money if a person gets some unexpected extra income, you have to create and maintain a system for handling appeals, you have to start chasing those that fraudulently claim more than they're entitled to, etc, etc. For payments as small as a few hundred pounds a year, it's just not worth the expense of trying to come up with something 'fairer'." I say reduce the amount but increase pension credit by that amount. | |||
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"Well if the MP's vote it down and then 800,000 pensioners apply for pension credits etc. Wouldn't that be a MAJOR financial f*up for the government? Given the labour majority and SKS telling his MP's how to vote, it is highly unlikely to be voted down. They know this and know this is the time to get unpopular things through. So 10 million pensioners to be affected and many to go into fuel poverty as a result. Some pensioners are trying to organise protest by stopping the voluntary work they do which saves others quite a bit of money. Maybe they should join a union to guarantee a seat on the Labour gravy train" Gravy train | |||
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"It's sickening and wrong that it's been so quickly announced, just before the start of the autumn and winter period. They could have planned for changes from 12 months time. It's crass and inappropriate to choose this, when a similar or higher amount could have been found elsewhere, that wouldn't leave people choosing between eating or heating. " Theoretically it's not wrong to make it means tested. | |||
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"Cut to winter fuel payment could kill 4,000 people, Labour’s own research suggests Analysis published by Labour in 2017 said plans to means test winter fuel payments would be the ‘single biggest attack on pensioners in a generation’ The Independent." incredible can’t think of a worse start his honeymoon is well and truely over | |||
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"I sense it will be 'amended', not a full U turn but something to lessen it's negative impact.. Seems a tad naive if they do given the flak they've had and if it is to be amended do it now .." Labour is already suggesting the Warm Home Discount scheme is enhanced for those on pension credit. Today it is announced that state pensions are likely to go up by 4.1% next year, nearly twice the level of inflation. Aldi announced yesterday that UK food prices are dropping and will continue to do so for the rest of the year. Untargetted benefits are expensive. The Tories themselves proposed means testing WFA in their 2017 manifesto. We can all play politics but the important objective is to help those that need benefits claim them, not give millionaires £200/£300 when the country can't afford it. | |||
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"I sense it will be 'amended', not a full U turn but something to lessen it's negative impact.. Seems a tad naive if they do given the flak they've had and if it is to be amended do it now .. Labour is already suggesting the Warm Home Discount scheme is enhanced for those on pension credit. Today it is announced that state pensions are likely to go up by 4.1% next year, nearly twice the level of inflation. Aldi announced yesterday that UK food prices are dropping and will continue to do so for the rest of the year. Untargetted benefits are expensive. The Tories themselves proposed means testing WFA in their 2017 manifesto. We can all play politics but the important objective is to help those that need benefits claim them, not give millionaires £200/£300 when the country can't afford it." Apart from your ironic 'we can all play politics' yes I agree.. | |||
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"I sense it will be 'amended', not a full U turn but something to lessen it's negative impact.. Seems a tad naive if they do given the flak they've had and if it is to be amended do it now .. Labour is already suggesting the Warm Home Discount scheme is enhanced for those on pension credit. Today it is announced that state pensions are likely to go up by 4.1% next year, nearly twice the level of inflation. Aldi announced yesterday that UK food prices are dropping and will continue to do so for the rest of the year. Untargetted benefits are expensive. The Tories themselves proposed means testing WFA in their 2017 manifesto. We can all play politics but the important objective is to help those that need benefits claim them, not give millionaires £200/£300 when the country can't afford it. Apart from your ironic 'we can all play politics' yes I agree.. " Not sure why it's ironic. I fully accept I am expressing my political views, which I think we all do? | |||
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"Last night Reeves addressed Labour back benchers: "It is the right thing to do, to target money at a time when finances are so stretched, at people who need them most" i.e. not the pensioners, but the 1.7 million unemployed migrant (non) workers. The UK's largest trade union Unite calls the policy "completely wrong". Its general secretary Sharon Graham told the BBC the government should "do a U-turn"" Well if Unite are saying "jump", Labour's only question is "how high?". Let's see how they wriggle out of this. | |||
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"I sense it will be 'amended', not a full U turn but something to lessen it's negative impact.. Seems a tad naive if they do given the flak they've had and if it is to be amended do it now .. Labour is already suggesting the Warm Home Discount scheme is enhanced for those on pension credit. Today it is announced that state pensions are likely to go up by 4.1% next year, nearly twice the level of inflation. Aldi announced yesterday that UK food prices are dropping and will continue to do so for the rest of the year. Untargetted benefits are expensive. The Tories themselves proposed means testing WFA in their 2017 manifesto. We can all play politics but the important objective is to help those that need benefits claim them, not give millionaires £200/£300 when the country can't afford it. Apart from your ironic 'we can all play politics' yes I agree.. Not sure why it's ironic. I fully accept I am expressing my political views, which I think we all do?" Fair point, I took it as a snipe so my apologies.. | |||
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"I sense it will be 'amended', not a full U turn but something to lessen it's negative impact.. Seems a tad naive if they do given the flak they've had and if it is to be amended do it now .. Labour is already suggesting the Warm Home Discount scheme is enhanced for those on pension credit. Today it is announced that state pensions are likely to go up by 4.1% next year, nearly twice the level of inflation. Aldi announced yesterday that UK food prices are dropping and will continue to do so for the rest of the year. Untargetted benefits are expensive. The Tories themselves proposed means testing WFA in their 2017 manifesto. We can all play politics but the important objective is to help those that need benefits claim them, not give millionaires £200/£300 when the country can't afford it. Apart from your ironic 'we can all play politics' yes I agree.. Not sure why it's ironic. I fully accept I am expressing my political views, which I think we all do? Fair point, I took it as a snipe so my apologies.." Not at all. I'm one of your biggest fans. | |||
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"I sense it will be 'amended', not a full U turn but something to lessen it's negative impact.. Seems a tad naive if they do given the flak they've had and if it is to be amended do it now .. Labour is already suggesting the Warm Home Discount scheme is enhanced for those on pension credit. Today it is announced that state pensions are likely to go up by 4.1% next year, nearly twice the level of inflation. Aldi announced yesterday that UK food prices are dropping and will continue to do so for the rest of the year. Untargetted benefits are expensive. The Tories themselves proposed means testing WFA in their 2017 manifesto. We can all play politics but the important objective is to help those that need benefits claim them, not give millionaires £200/£300 when the country can't afford it. Apart from your ironic 'we can all play politics' yes I agree.. Not sure why it's ironic. I fully accept I am expressing my political views, which I think we all do? Fair point, I took it as a snipe so my apologies.. Not at all. I'm one of your biggest fans. " now I'm a bit unsettled.. | |||
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"I sense it will be 'amended', not a full U turn but something to lessen it's negative impact.. Seems a tad naive if they do given the flak they've had and if it is to be amended do it now .. Labour is already suggesting the Warm Home Discount scheme is enhanced for those on pension credit. Today it is announced that state pensions are likely to go up by 4.1% next year, nearly twice the level of inflation. Aldi announced yesterday that UK food prices are dropping and will continue to do so for the rest of the year. Untargetted benefits are expensive. The Tories themselves proposed means testing WFA in their 2017 manifesto. We can all play politics but the important objective is to help those that need benefits claim them, not give millionaires £200/£300 when the country can't afford it. Apart from your ironic 'we can all play politics' yes I agree.. Not sure why it's ironic. I fully accept I am expressing my political views, which I think we all do? Fair point, I took it as a snipe so my apologies.. Not at all. I'm one of your biggest fans. now I'm a bit unsettled.." It was meant as a compliment on the quality of your posts, nothing more, apologies if you were unsettled. | |||
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"I sense it will be 'amended', not a full U turn but something to lessen it's negative impact.. Seems a tad naive if they do given the flak they've had and if it is to be amended do it now .. Labour is already suggesting the Warm Home Discount scheme is enhanced for those on pension credit. Today it is announced that state pensions are likely to go up by 4.1% next year, nearly twice the level of inflation. Aldi announced yesterday that UK food prices are dropping and will continue to do so for the rest of the year. Untargetted benefits are expensive. The Tories themselves proposed means testing WFA in their 2017 manifesto. We can all play politics but the important objective is to help those that need benefits claim them, not give millionaires £200/£300 when the country can't afford it. Apart from your ironic 'we can all play politics' yes I agree.. Not sure why it's ironic. I fully accept I am expressing my political views, which I think we all do? Fair point, I took it as a snipe so my apologies.. Not at all. I'm one of your biggest fans. now I'm a bit unsettled.. It was meant as a compliment on the quality of your posts, nothing more, apologies if you were unsettled." I'm pulling your leg a little .. | |||
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"Just think, few years ago it was save A pensioner with covid restrictions... now it's freeze a pensioner, grab there property via inheritance tax and no longer have to pay them state pension... " Well Labour did promise change! | |||
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"I sense it will be 'amended', not a full U turn but something to lessen it's negative impact.. Seems a tad naive if they do given the flak they've had and if it is to be amended do it now .. Labour is already suggesting the Warm Home Discount scheme is enhanced for those on pension credit. Today it is announced that state pensions are likely to go up by 4.1% next year, nearly twice the level of inflation. Aldi announced yesterday that UK food prices are dropping and will continue to do so for the rest of the year. Untargetted benefits are expensive. The Tories themselves proposed means testing WFA in their 2017 manifesto. We can all play politics but the important objective is to help those that need benefits claim them, not give millionaires £200/£300 when the country can't afford it. Apart from your ironic 'we can all play politics' yes I agree.. Not sure why it's ironic. I fully accept I am expressing my political views, which I think we all do?" … on the politics forum, of all places … | |||
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"Just think, few years ago it was save A pensioner with covid restrictions... now it's freeze a pensioner, grab there property via inheritance tax and no longer have to pay them state pension... " That is very sensationalist So let me ask you a question ( I know the answer so I am wondering if you do!) Do you know the percentage of estates last year actually paid any inheritance tax? And since they are again getting an above inflation state pension increase next April due to the triple lock…. | |||
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"Just think, few years ago it was save A pensioner with covid restrictions... now it's freeze a pensioner, grab there property via inheritance tax and no longer have to pay them state pension... " Yes, they really are taking the piss out of pensioners | |||
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"Just think, few years ago it was save A pensioner with covid restrictions... now it's freeze a pensioner, grab there property via inheritance tax and no longer have to pay them state pension... That is very sensationalist So let me ask you a question ( I know the answer so I am wondering if you do!) Do you know the percentage of estates last year actually paid any inheritance tax? And since they are again getting an above inflation state pension increase next April due to the triple lock…. " I couldn't quote it without looking it up, been up since 4am so half asleep but was talking about inheritance tax a few months ago in the local, years ago it was quite rare for someone to pay, but due to house prices increase its now quite common especially down south? | |||
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"The other thing is that the government are going to start a campaign to get people to sign up for pension credit For as much as we like to complain… there are about a million people entitled to it that are not getting it at the moment… and at least those people would still get their WFA But how many are computer illiterate? " And that still leaves many millions more who cannot claim pension credit | |||
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"Complain to your MP, if they voted or abstained, differently to your expectations. " Mps never listen to their voters, they want to climb the ladder of politics so are like lapping dogs to the leadership | |||
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"It is a little sneaky that Labour have made this the first of what will be many unpopular and controversial acts they pass. There is no way that there will be enough MPs voting against it to stop it going through. If this hadn’t gone through, a no confidence vote could have happened so early in his reign. Those fat twat Liebour MPs are not going to risk their cushy jobs after such a short space of time. The pressure needs piling on, and this act in particular, has to continue to be mentioned. He’s a nasty piece of work!" "Fat twat Liebour MPs" Interesting description from.... | |||
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"Just think, few years ago it was save A pensioner with covid restrictions... now it's freeze a pensioner, grab there property via inheritance tax and no longer have to pay them state pension... That is very sensationalist So let me ask you a question ( I know the answer so I am wondering if you do!) Do you know the percentage of estates last year actually paid any inheritance tax? And since they are again getting an above inflation state pension increase next April due to the triple lock…. I couldn't quote it without looking it up, been up since 4am so half asleep but was talking about inheritance tax a few months ago in the local, years ago it was quite rare for someone to pay, but due to house prices increase its now quite common especially down south?" Actually…. Nowhere near as common as you think It’s a whopping 2% of all estates paid inheritance tax in the tax year 2023/24 Remember that spouses are inheritance tax exempt….. Even though at the moment the inheritance tax threshold is 325,000… in England last year the average house cost 270,000 and much lower in the regions You are talking about a London centric issue rather than something that effects people all over the country | |||
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"I couldn't quote it without looking it up, been up since 4am so half asleep but was talking about inheritance tax a few months ago in the local, years ago it was quite rare for someone to pay, but due to house prices increase its now quite common especially down south?" "Actually…. Nowhere near as common as you think It’s a whopping 2% of all estates paid inheritance tax in the tax year 2023/24 Remember that spouses are inheritance tax exempt….. Even though at the moment the inheritance tax threshold is 325,000… in England last year the average house cost 270,000 and much lower in the regions" The threshold is £500,000 if it's from a property, and it's going to descendants of the deceased. | |||
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"No need to means test, the money they pay out on fuel payments will just be circulated back into the economy benefiting working people anyway, regardless if the pensioners are rich or not. If I was getting it at didn't need it I'd spend it on on food, clothes or a holiday in by the sea and guess what the working people in the food shop, retailers and guest house would be benefitting. The goverment hasn't got a clue how to run economy." Taking £200-£300 off pensioners, while Rachel Reeves has claimed £3700 in heating expenses for her MP home | |||
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"No need to means test, the money they pay out on fuel payments will just be circulated back into the economy benefiting working people anyway, regardless if the pensioners are rich or not. If I was getting it at didn't need it I'd spend it on on food, clothes or a holiday in by the sea and guess what the working people in the food shop, retailers and guest house would be benefitting. The goverment hasn't got a clue how to run economy. Taking £200-£300 off pensioners, while Rachel Reeves has claimed £3700 in heating expenses for her MP home " Ouch! Those are bad optics and a brilliant attack line if the media or public wanted to go there. Opposition MPs won’t as they all do it! | |||
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"I couldn't quote it without looking it up, been up since 4am so half asleep but was talking about inheritance tax a few months ago in the local, years ago it was quite rare for someone to pay, but due to house prices increase its now quite common especially down south? Actually…. Nowhere near as common as you think It’s a whopping 2% of all estates paid inheritance tax in the tax year 2023/24 Remember that spouses are inheritance tax exempt….. Even though at the moment the inheritance tax threshold is 325,000… in England last year the average house cost 270,000 and much lower in the regions The threshold is £500,000 if it's from a property, and it's going to descendants of the deceased." That I true for one person £325,000 Each and £175,000 if there is a property going to descendants. But if you are married you also inherit their allowance. So really it's £1,000,000 for a couple that have a property. | |||
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"No need to means test, the money they pay out on fuel payments will just be circulated back into the economy benefiting working people anyway, regardless if the pensioners are rich or not. If I was getting it at didn't need it I'd spend it on on food, clothes or a holiday in by the sea and guess what the working people in the food shop, retailers and guest house would be benefitting. The goverment hasn't got a clue how to run economy. Taking £200-£300 off pensioners, while Rachel Reeves has claimed £3700 in heating expenses for her MP home " Not seen that other than here. Where do I find an article on it please. As others say, bad optics but probably she is not alone in doing it | |||
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"Is it me or does Rachael Reeves, Kier Starmer and Angela Rayner sound like robots at the despatch box. The apparent reason the the blackhole is the Tories fault, but wasn't it the job of opposition to keep them in check and not forgetting alot of local councils were under Labour control at the time so if the Tories are to blame so is Labour. It's not like Labour just arrived on the earth from Mars to find the economy in a mess. No one wins in the blame game." So let me get this right, Conservatives are in power and Labour only have to object to something they are doing and the Cons will do it? How does that work? | |||
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