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The Gathering Storm (Part II)

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By *idnight Rambler OP   Man
12 weeks ago

Pershore

What are we to make of the rise of the 'Far Right' in Germany? The AfD look set to win their first regional election. Is this a throw-back to the 1930's 'Der Morgige Tag ist Mein' and all that? Or is it a protest vote against out-of-control liberalism? Closer to home, can we expect the launch of AfB here?

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By *resesse_MelioremCouple
12 weeks ago

Border of London


"What are we to make of the rise of the 'Far Right' in Germany? The AfD look set to win their first regional election. Is this a throw-back to the 1930's 'Der Morgige Tag ist Mein' and all that? Or is it a protest vote against out-of-control liberalism? Closer to home, can we expect the launch of AfB here?"

https://www.theguardian.com/world/article/2024/sep/01/success-far-right-afd-shows-east-west-germany-drifting-further-apart

An interesting read on the Guardian site. Germany is, understandably, very concerned about anything that is more right than right-of-centre. The West currently balances the East in terms of absolute numbers and the parties have historically worked together to deny the xenophobes power where possible.

Perhaps German political parties will need to assess the actual issues affecting East German society and why other parties are losing ground.

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By *oo hotCouple
12 weeks ago

North West

What is "out of control liberalism"?

Would Fabswingers be considered as being out of control liberalism?

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By *ebauchedDeviantsPt2Couple
12 weeks ago

Cumbria


"What is "out of control liberalism"?

Would Fabswingers be considered as being out of control liberalism?"

Well the Nazis were very keen to exploit the supposed deviance of the Weimar era, and really clamped down on anything they considered sexually perverted. So in 1930s Germany fabbers would definitely have been on some sort of list.

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By *idnight Rambler OP   Man
12 weeks ago

Pershore


"What is "out of control liberalism"?

Would Fabswingers be considered as being out of control liberalism?

Well the Nazis were very keen to exploit the supposed deviance of the Weimar era, and really clamped down on anything they considered sexually perverted. So in 1930s Germany fabbers would definitely have been on some sort of list."

The Membership List of the KitKat Club perhaps?

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By *usybee73Man
12 weeks ago

in the sticks

Germany has been bubbling for a few years, not surprised... think they have the highest population of Turkish outside of Turkey? Then you had markel opening up for all

Bit like this country, people getting fed up, say something... label far right gets thrown around

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By *eroy1000Man
12 weeks ago

milton keynes


"What are we to make of the rise of the 'Far Right' in Germany? The AfD look set to win their first regional election. Is this a throw-back to the 1930's 'Der Morgige Tag ist Mein' and all that? Or is it a protest vote against out-of-control liberalism? Closer to home, can we expect the launch of AfB here?"

As I understand from the bbc, even though the AFD won in an area they will be unlikely to govern that area. They have the same problem as Le Penn's party in France, in that they don't have an outright majority so need partners for a coalition. Seems other parties rule this out and will form theIr own coalition. Apparently far left parties do not have this problem but like in France it could be a very unstable coalition especially as certain votes needs a two thirds majority which the AFD can block on their own.

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By (user no longer on site)
12 weeks ago

I mean, the term "far fight", is basically used to define anything which has not made the lurch to the far left, which the majority of the west has done.

Anything that used the be centralist, or just plain right. Is now instead "far right". On top of which, the term is used akin to the word "racist" now (which more or less is losing its meaning), as in a catch all term for anything which isn't part of the far lefts ideology and thus is or should be seen as bad.

Words matter, definitions matter. When definitions change overnight, it is worth taking a step back and observe the chessboard as a whole.

Look at what we have seen over the last 20/25 years, compare how things have changed, words/phrases have changed - and to what objectives could be the goal of those who take the lead in making these changes a reality.

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By *ebauchedDeviantsPt2Couple
12 weeks ago

Cumbria


"I mean, the term "far fight", is basically used to define anything which has not made the lurch to the far left, which the majority of the west has done.

Anything that used the be centralist, or just plain right. Is now instead "far right". On top of which, the term is used akin to the word "racist" now (which more or less is losing its meaning), as in a catch all term for anything which isn't part of the far lefts ideology and thus is or should be seen as bad.

Words matter, definitions matter. When definitions change overnight, it is worth taking a step back and observe the chessboard as a whole.

Look at what we have seen over the last 20/25 years, compare how things have changed, words/phrases have changed - and to what objectives could be the goal of those who take the lead in making these changes a reality.

"

My irony-meter just exploded.

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By (user no longer on site)
12 weeks ago


"My irony-meter just exploded."

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By *ohnnyTwoNotesMan
12 weeks ago

golden fields


" can we expect the launch of AfB here?"

As a rival to Reform? Seems pretty pointless.

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By *ohnnyTwoNotesMan
12 weeks ago

golden fields


"I mean, the term "far fight", is basically used to define anything which has not made the lurch to the far left, which the majority of the west has done.

Anything that used the be centralist, or just plain right. Is now instead "far right". On top of which, the term is used akin to the word "racist" now (which more or less is losing its meaning), as in a catch all term for anything which isn't part of the far lefts ideology and thus is or should be seen as bad.

Words matter, definitions matter. When definitions change overnight, it is worth taking a step back and observe the chessboard as a whole.

Look at what we have seen over the last 20/25 years, compare how things have changed, words/phrases have changed - and to what objectives could be the goal of those who take the lead in making these changes a reality.

"

Have you beamed in from an alternative universe? We've been on a swing to the right for the last however long. Tories, Trump, Brexit etc.

And now was have a centrist party in power that are labeled "loony left".

Welcome to 2024.

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By *lecom1Couple
12 weeks ago

Stornoway

No worries Starmer will make things right

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By (user no longer on site)
12 weeks ago


"Have you beamed in from an alternative universe? We've been on a swing to the right for the last however long. Tories, Trump, Brexit etc.

And now was have a centrist party in power that are labelled "loony left".

Welcome to 2024."

You think the Tories are/were right? haha ok mate

We didnt get brexit, and even so. Brexit is far right now?

Trump considers himself centre/centre right. He used to be a democrat... before/during his run up to be president he was welcomed on to "The View", a TV show in USA which is as far left as you can get. They welcomed him with open arms.

Where have you been my garden path walking friend.

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By *usybee73Man
12 weeks ago

in the sticks

I'm sure the likes of Tony Ben and Corbyn were against the eu ... those far right buggers!

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By *ohnnyTwoNotesMan
12 weeks ago

golden fields


"Have you beamed in from an alternative universe? We've been on a swing to the right for the last however long. Tories, Trump, Brexit etc.

And now was have a centrist party in power that are labelled "loony left".

Welcome to 2024.

You think the Tories are/were right? haha ok mate"

I mean, they were very right wing. In what way weren't they?


"

We didnt get brexit,

"

Quick fact check. We have left the EU, Brexit happened.


"

and even so. Brexit is far right now?

"

No idea, why are you talking about the "far right"?


"

Trump considers himself centre/centre right.

"

Maybe, but lets be fair, he's a mad bastard.


"

He used to be a democrat... before/during his run up to be president he was welcomed on to "The View", a TV show in USA which is as far left as you can get. They welcomed him with open arms.

"

Not sure that you can use the perceived welcome from an obscure TV show to be evidence that Trump is intact, not very right wing.


"

Where have you been my garden path walking friend."

All around. And I don't have a garden path.

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By *iman2100Man
12 weeks ago

Glasgow

With myopia typical of the extreme right when not in office, the AfD has turned to xenophobia as a way of frightening Germans into voting for them.

Needless to say this is not in the interests of Germany as a whole but is effective in marshalling the unthinking to vote AfD.

The facts are, however, glaringly obvious. The German birth rate has been falling for some time. Germany has a huge GDP based mainly on manufacturing, which needs workers. Without these workers there will be less production and less money to pay for pensioners etc. in the future. So the mature voters of Germany who are embracing reduced immigration are akin to turkeys voting for Xmas.

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By *eard and TattsCouple
12 weeks ago

Cwmbran

They are center right

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By *ellhungvweMan
12 weeks ago

Cheltenham

What is happening in East Germany is no different to why Trump is able to get traction in the US or why Le Pen has got votes - people don’t particularly like the policies that are being put forward but they do like the fact that someone is talking to them.

East Germany has not recovered post communism and they feel they have been left behind by the other side of the country. Trump works best in those areas that have seen industry disappear and where nothing has replaced it. Le Pen works best in the same types of areas. You can make a similar argument for Farage.

The success of the last few decades that many of us have had has not been shared and people are starting to resent that. They will vote for the people who recognise that and talk to it. The mainstream parties are missing these people.

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By *ebauchedDeviantsPt2Couple
12 weeks ago

Cumbria

I wonder why people would want to describe far right ideologies as center right?

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By *resesse_MelioremCouple
12 weeks ago

Border of London


"I wonder why people would want to describe far right ideologies as center right?"

It would probably help to list the ideologies (rather the policy points) and then argue over those...

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By *ebauchedDeviantsPt2Couple
12 weeks ago

Cumbria


"I wonder why people would want to describe far right ideologies as center right?

It would probably help to list the ideologies (rather the policy points) and then argue over those..."

It’s not the political element I am interested in though, it’s the psychology.

However, their Islamophobia is disturbing, the desire to ban minarets and the call to prayer for instance. Also the fact that they are closely associated with neo-Nazi groups, have a strong pro-Russian element, and want to ‘re-migrate’ people not born in Germany, even if they have citizenship. They are also against same sex marriage, and want to repeal many of the rights LGBTQ people have in Germany, one of the most ‘gay friendly’ countries in the world. Their talk about German culture and 10,000 years of Germanic history is reminiscent of the language used in 1930s Germany.

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By *ggdrasil66Man
12 weeks ago

Saltdean


"I wonder why people would want to describe far right ideologies as center right?

It would probably help to list the ideologies (rather the policy points) and then argue over those...

It’s not the political element I am interested in though, it’s the psychology.

However, their Islamophobia is disturbing, the desire to ban minarets and the call to prayer for instance. Also the fact that they are closely associated with neo-Nazi groups, have a strong pro-Russian element, and want to ‘re-migrate’ people not born in Germany, even if they have citizenship. They are also against same sex marriage, and want to repeal many of the rights LGBTQ people have in Germany, one of the most ‘gay friendly’ countries in the world. Their talk about German culture and 10,000 years of Germanic history is reminiscent of the language used in 1930s Germany."

Yet Two Tokes reckons they are the same as Reform UK. Nothing quoted above applies to Reform.

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By *mateur100Man
12 weeks ago

nr faversham


"What are we to make of the rise of the 'Far Right' in Germany? The AfD look set to win their first regional election. Is this a throw-back to the 1930's 'Der Morgige Tag ist Mein' and all that? Or is it a protest vote against out-of-control liberalism? Closer to home, can we expect the launch of AfB here?"

What are we to make of it? The centre parties are making a sustained fuck up of governance

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