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"Unsafe conviction? If it turns out this is an unsafe conviction, it'll definitely fuel evidence for never returning the death penalty. " Been watching it from the start, some of the evidence don't add up and the reasoning... | |||
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"Unsafe convictions are very scary in this day and age. One would assume that someone convicted of multiple deaths, the evidence would be overwhelming." the shear number of suspicious deaths connected to her care makes her look very guilty to me. If she manages to wriggle out of some of the convictions with a cleaver lawyer she should still be locked up for life for the other convictions . | |||
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"I listened to one of the experts questioning the conviction. He is a professor who specialises in statistics. I wonder what he thinks the odds are on an innocent person writing in their diary that they had killed the babies and that they were evil." Nailed.  | |||
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"If she is guilty of just one death - then she's in the right place. Sadly, it won't be till 'she' dies." What makes you say that? She is one of the few people in prison who will never be paroled. | |||
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"Unsafe conviction? If it turns out this is an unsafe conviction, it'll definitely fuel evidence for never returning the death penalty. " You have to trust the system and accept that nothings perfect otherwise you'll never convict anyone for fear of making that one mistake in a million | |||
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"Unsafe conviction? If it turns out this is an unsafe conviction, it'll definitely fuel evidence for never returning the death penalty. You have to trust the system and accept that nothings perfect otherwise you'll never convict anyone for fear of making that one mistake in a million " Ok. For absolute clarity you are saying you will have to trust the system. Especially if the death penalty is reinstated? So if your closest loved one is arrested, convicted and executed for a crime which is later established they could not have committed and the conviction is quashed then you will still simply accept it and not want the law even changed because "Hey, nothing's perfect, right?" That is what you are saying yes? | |||
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"I listened to one of the experts questioning the conviction. He is a professor who specialises in statistics. I wonder what he thinks the odds are on an innocent person writing in their diary that they had killed the babies and that they were evil." I have personal knowledge of a man that wrote a diary saying that he had killed several people, and saying that the devil made him do it. He hadn't killed anyone, we proved that he wasn't in the area at the time the killings took place. But he was convinced that he had killed those people, and that demons had made him do it, and were covering up for him. There are some very self-destructive people out there. | |||
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"Unsafe conviction? If it turns out this is an unsafe conviction, it'll definitely fuel evidence for never returning the death penalty. You have to trust the system and accept that nothings perfect otherwise you'll never convict anyone for fear of making that one mistake in a million " Like all the cases where innocent people have been convicted of murder and then later released.. That sort of trust? | |||
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"I listened to one of the experts questioning the conviction. He is a professor who specialises in statistics. I wonder what he thinks the odds are on an innocent person writing in their diary that they had killed the babies and that they were evil. I have personal knowledge of a man that wrote a diary saying that he had killed several people, and saying that the devil made him do it. He hadn't killed anyone, we proved that he wasn't in the area at the time the killings took place. But he was convinced that he had killed those people, and that demons had made him do it, and were covering up for him. There are some very self-destructive people out there." Was he also a credible suspect ? | |||
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"I listened to one of the experts questioning the conviction. He is a professor who specialises in statistics. I wonder what he thinks the odds are on an innocent person writing in their diary that they had killed the babies and that they were evil. I have personal knowledge of a man that wrote a diary saying that he had killed several people, and saying that the devil made him do it. He hadn't killed anyone, we proved that he wasn't in the area at the time the killings took place. But he was convinced that he had killed those people, and that demons had made him do it, and were covering up for him. There are some very self-destructive people out there." But she was in the area. Sometimes it really is that simple. | |||
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"I listened to one of the experts questioning the conviction. He is a professor who specialises in statistics. I wonder what he thinks the odds are on an innocent person writing in their diary that they had killed the babies and that they were evil." "I have personal knowledge of a man that wrote a diary saying that he had killed several people, and saying that the devil made him do it. He hadn't killed anyone, we proved that he wasn't in the area at the time the killings took place. But he was convinced that he had killed those people, and that demons had made him do it, and were covering up for him. There are some very self-destructive people out there." "Was he also a credible suspect ?" At first, which is why the diary got found. He was ruled out fairly early in the investigation. Which was lucky for him, because if he had been in those places, or even just if he couldn't prove he wasn't, he would have become the prime suspect. My point with the above post is that someone admitting a crime isn't a slam dunk that they definitely did it. Ask any policeman and they'll tell you about those who claim responsibility for things they haven't done. | |||
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"Unsafe conviction? If it turns out this is an unsafe conviction, it'll definitely fuel evidence for never returning the death penalty. You have to trust the system and accept that nothings perfect otherwise you'll never convict anyone for fear of making that one mistake in a million Ok. For absolute clarity you are saying you will have to trust the system. Especially if the death penalty is reinstated? So if your closest loved one is arrested, convicted and executed for a crime which is later established they could not have committed and the conviction is quashed then you will still simply accept it and not want the law even changed because "Hey, nothing's perfect, right?" That is what you are saying yes? " Who mentioned the death penalty? | |||
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"Unsafe conviction? If it turns out this is an unsafe conviction, it'll definitely fuel evidence for never returning the death penalty. You have to trust the system and accept that nothings perfect otherwise you'll never convict anyone for fear of making that one mistake in a million Like all the cases where innocent people have been convicted of murder and then later released.. That sort of trust?" The ratio is, I suspect heavily in favour | |||
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"Unsafe conviction? If it turns out this is an unsafe conviction, it'll definitely fuel evidence for never returning the death penalty. You have to trust the system and accept that nothings perfect otherwise you'll never convict anyone for fear of making that one mistake in a million Like all the cases where innocent people have been convicted of murder and then later released.. That sort of trust? The ratio is, I suspect heavily in favour" Heavily in favour is simply not good enough when we are talking about taking away innocent peoples liberty for years.. | |||
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"If she does turn out to be not guilty then she will have suffered one of the biggest miscarriages of justice in decades." Yes, she will....IF she's found not guilty but that doesn't mean no-one can be sent down for fear of getting it wrong. The evidence is compelling | |||
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"If she does turn out to be not guilty then she will have suffered one of the biggest miscarriages of justice in decades." Thinking of Jeremy Bamber and Michael Stone still in prison. Andrew Malkinson recently released after 17 years imprisoned innocent. | |||
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"The most compelling evidence to me is a doctor seeing her standing by an incubator with alarm deactivated, watching oxygen level falling and not reacting" Did the trial see evidence that the alarm has been deactivated? Were the jury shown proof that the baby died of anoxia? Was Letby demonstrated to be in the room at that point? Or is your compelling evidence just you reading a newspaper report of what someone else said? | |||
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" Or is your compelling evidence just you reading a newspaper report of what someone else said?" It is evidence I would have heard if I was a juror. | |||
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"Or is your compelling evidence just you reading a newspaper report of what someone else said?" "It is evidence I would have heard if I was a juror." Unless you were a juror, you don't know that. Those of us that weren't in the court room can only know what the papers report, and that's rarely the whole truth. | |||
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"If she does turn out to be not guilty then she will have suffered one of the biggest miscarriages of justice in decades. Yes, she will....IF she's found not guilty but that doesn't mean no-one can be sent down for fear of getting it wrong. The evidence is compelling" I don’t think anyone is saying no one should get sent down if the case can be proven beyond reasonable doubt, but in highly emotive cases like this we have to make certain people aren’t swayed by the fact it is dead babies and someone needs to pay. The evidence needs to be more than compelling, it needs to be conclusive. | |||
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"I listened to one of the experts questioning the conviction. He is a professor who specialises in statistics. I wonder what he thinks the odds are on an innocent person writing in their diary that they had killed the babies and that they were evil." But hasn't it come out now that the diary is something she was encouraged to write by a psychiatrist that she was having counselling from, some high up at the same hospital? (Honestly not too sure of the details here, I've just heard a few snippets on the radio) So now we might have a situation where: 1. There is no direct physical evidence of Letby actually harming the babies. 2. Letby being overworked and under resourced (same as every other health professional over the last 15 years or so), suffering from depression, anxiety, low self esteem, and pressure from superiors who didn't like her. 3. Hospital systems where department is under funded, badly run, faulty equipment (same as every other hospital over the last 15 years, several of which have been actually found to be so bad that patients have been mistreated and harmed by the system and administration, not by individual low level staff). 4. Letby being encouraged by MH therapist, a senior person at same hospital, to write down bad thoughts and self worries as a way to process her extreme stress and overwork. 5. Prosecution not properly revealing all the circumstances around these "confession diaries". 6. It being very convenient for hospital administration if blame could be placed on a single junior staff member, rather than there being the type of high level investigation of hospital malpractice that has occurred at some other hospitals. Be clear that I'm not saying that Letby is definitely innocent. But that there does seem to be a possibility that not all the evidence was presented, that the prosecution might have been selective in their disclosure, and that it could have been very convenient for some of the high ups at the hospital to have all blame placed on a single nurse rather than any wider investigation occurring. That there may be a possibility of this being an unsafe conviction and a massive miscarriage of justice. I don't know. But I worry that if it is a bad conviction, the true reason for the deaths of these babies is still unknown, an innocent person could be being punished, and the true guilty person(s) could cause further harm in the future. | |||
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"Unsafe conviction? If it turns out this is an unsafe conviction, it'll definitely fuel evidence for never returning the death penalty. You have to trust the system and accept that nothings perfect otherwise you'll never convict anyone for fear of making that one mistake in a million Ok. For absolute clarity you are saying you will have to trust the system. Especially if the death penalty is reinstated? So if your closest loved one is arrested, convicted and executed for a crime which is later established they could not have committed and the conviction is quashed then you will still simply accept it and not want the law even changed because "Hey, nothing's perfect, right?" That is what you are saying yes? Who mentioned the death penalty?" First post! | |||
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"Unsafe conviction? If it turns out this is an unsafe conviction, it'll definitely fuel evidence for never returning the death penalty. You have to trust the system and accept that nothings perfect otherwise you'll never convict anyone for fear of making that one mistake in a million Ok. For absolute clarity you are saying you will have to trust the system. Especially if the death penalty is reinstated? So if your closest loved one is arrested, convicted and executed for a crime which is later established they could not have committed and the conviction is quashed then you will still simply accept it and not want the law even changed because "Hey, nothing's perfect, right?" That is what you are saying yes? Who mentioned the death penalty? First post!" You referred to it,I didn't | |||
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"I listened to one of the experts questioning the conviction. He is a professor who specialises in statistics. I wonder what he thinks the odds are on an innocent person writing in their diary that they had killed the babies and that they were evil. But hasn't it come out now that the diary is something she was encouraged to write by a psychiatrist that she was having counselling from, some high up at the same hospital? (Honestly not too sure of the details here, I've just heard a few snippets on the radio) So now we might have a situation where: 1. There is no direct physical evidence of Letby actually harming the babies. 2. Letby being overworked and under resourced (same as every other health professional over the last 15 years or so), suffering from depression, anxiety, low self esteem, and pressure from superiors who didn't like her. 3. Hospital systems where department is under funded, badly run, faulty equipment (same as every other hospital over the last 15 years, several of which have been actually found to be so bad that patients have been mistreated and harmed by the system and administration, not by individual low level staff). 4. Letby being encouraged by MH therapist, a senior person at same hospital, to write down bad thoughts and self worries as a way to process her extreme stress and overwork. 5. Prosecution not properly revealing all the circumstances around these "confession diaries". 6. It being very convenient for hospital administration if blame could be placed on a single junior staff member, rather than there being the type of high level investigation of hospital malpractice that has occurred at some other hospitals. Be clear that I'm not saying that Letby is definitely innocent. But that there does seem to be a possibility that not all the evidence was presented, that the prosecution might have been selective in their disclosure, and that it could have been very convenient for some of the high ups at the hospital to have all blame placed on a single nurse rather than any wider investigation occurring. That there may be a possibility of this being an unsafe conviction and a massive miscarriage of justice. I don't know. But I worry that if it is a bad conviction, the true reason for the deaths of these babies is still unknown, an innocent person could be being punished, and the true guilty person(s) could cause further harm in the future." Good points. I hear that if you want a copy of the full court transcript it will cost £100,000. That is not going to make it easy for anyone to get familiar with her case. | |||
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"Unsafe convictions are very scary in this day and age. One would assume that someone convicted of multiple deaths, the evidence would be overwhelming. the shear number of suspicious deaths connected to her care makes her look very guilty to me. If she manages to wriggle out of some of the convictions with a cleaver lawyer she should still be locked up for life for the other convictions . " Why do you not feel the same way about all the male doctors who worked in a failing hospital that was downgraded because of its low standards of care? You know, the same doctors who blamed Letby on the basis of purely circumstantial evidence? | |||
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"The thing I’m stuck on and correct me if I’m wrong, didn’t she write notebooks about the deaths? That’s the only thing that makes it seem strange. Yes I am aware writing something isn’t a crime, but it does look awfully suspicious " If it walks like a 🦆quacks like a 🦆swims like a 🦆the chances are it’s not a 🦤no matter what a panel of retired Ornithologists say. | |||
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"The thing I’m stuck on and correct me if I’m wrong, didn’t she write notebooks about the deaths? That’s the only thing that makes it seem strange. Yes I am aware writing something isn’t a crime, but it does look awfully suspicious " Her defence said it was therapy for her after false accusations | |||
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"Unsafe conviction? If it turns out this is an unsafe conviction, it'll definitely fuel evidence for never returning the death penalty. " So are you thinking there is still a baby killer in society. Or did this stop once she was looked up. Has it happened since? 🤔 | |||
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"Unsafe conviction? If it turns out this is an unsafe conviction, it'll definitely fuel evidence for never returning the death penalty. So are you thinking there is still a baby killer in society. Or did this stop once she was looked up. Has it happened since? 🤔 " I believe the alternative explanation for the deaths is poor practices at the hospital. | |||
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"Unsafe conviction? If it turns out this is an unsafe conviction, it'll definitely fuel evidence for never returning the death penalty. So are you thinking there is still a baby killer in society. Or did this stop once she was looked up. Has it happened since? 🤔 " The criminal justice system depends on the state to have to prove beyond reasonable doubt that someone is guilty of the alleged crime. These experts have provided evidence that demonstrates that the crimes did not actually occur and thus there's nothing that she's actually guilty of, even though she was found guilty and has lost her liberty. The review body should thus review each of the convictions, in light of the new evidence. Whilst they do not, it leaves someone at the terrible loss of their liberty as well as the state having reached the wrong conclusion and preventing us from correctly assessing what our conclusions should have been. We're thus shooting ourselves in the foot and stopping ourselves from progressing. This could mean that other mistakes, including other lives are lost, continue to happen, whilst we remain ignorant yet seemingly happy in our ignorance, whatever the cost. | |||
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"Unsafe conviction? If it turns out this is an unsafe conviction, it'll definitely fuel evidence for never returning the death penalty. So are you thinking there is still a baby killer in society. Or did this stop once she was looked up. Has it happened since? 🤔 The criminal justice system depends on the state to have to prove beyond reasonable doubt that someone is guilty of the alleged crime. These experts have provided evidence that demonstrates that the crimes did not actually occur and thus there's nothing that she's actually guilty of, even though she was found guilty and has lost her liberty. The review body should thus review each of the convictions, in light of the new evidence. Whilst they do not, it leaves someone at the terrible loss of their liberty as well as the state having reached the wrong conclusion and preventing us from correctly assessing what our conclusions should have been. We're thus shooting ourselves in the foot and stopping ourselves from progressing. This could mean that other mistakes, including other lives are lost, continue to happen, whilst we remain ignorant yet seemingly happy in our ignorance, whatever the cost. " They have provided opinions, just like the experts who signed the great barrington declaration . | |||
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"https://www.reuters.com/world/uk/experts-challenge-baby-killings-conviction-uk-nurse-lucy-letby-2025-02-04/ In their opinion none of babies had been murdered. Can the British justice system get things THIS wrong?" Was she convicted on just medical evidence? | |||
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"https://www.reuters.com/world/uk/experts-challenge-baby-killings-conviction-uk-nurse-lucy-letby-2025-02-04/ In their opinion none of babies had been murdered. Can the British justice system get things THIS wrong? Was she convicted on just medical evidence?" https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/ce8y28ny1n0o | |||
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"Let's just say it turned out she was innocent her lifes still ruined yes she will have her freedom but we all know that old saying shit sticks! " It's not just about her though. What about the families of all the babies concerned? What about the hospital, is it steeped in negligence? Is there another person guilty? Was Letby scapegoated (there were two cases where Letby was not on duty)? | |||
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"Let's just say it turned out she was innocent her lifes still ruined yes she will have her freedom but we all know that old saying shit sticks! It's not just about her though. What about the families of all the babies concerned? What about the hospital, is it steeped in negligence? Is there another person guilty? Was Letby scapegoated (there were two cases where Letby was not on duty)?" a very good point especially the families. | |||
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"Unsafe conviction? If it turns out this is an unsafe conviction, it'll definitely fuel evidence for never returning the death penalty. " Letby is not alone many nurses all over the world have been accused, trialed and in prisoned for crimes they were later found not guilty of. I expressed letbys innocence but was put down with such anger the thread was taken down last time, but this thread will now be different as the news says so. | |||
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